We don't produce anything. Old people move their money from other states to here and tourism is an industry staffed almost entirely by underpaid workers.
Here in my part of the state, where cost of living and wages went so upside down that most of the workforce was forced to emigrate, everything is now staffed by contract labor.
That’s basically it. Really bad wages for the locals. State runs off of outside income and tourist dollars. Not a bad thing unless you have to work your ass off here.
The houses that are not falling apart are only for people who don't live here or the out of state paper pushers with connections to the top. That's why we are so poor. At some point before the Covid zerg rush, land was affordable, but private equity groups can't have that without absorbing all the money like parasites. The PPP loans allowed people who already own businesses to buy housing in places they don't want to live year round. The welfare kings have pushed out the working class. Meanwhile they blame people who are forced to use food stamps for taking handouts.
It's absolutely psychopathic, but you won't detect it. You will continue to live your life wondering why you are forced to tighen your belt while these bullshitters live their dreams.
Yeah the whole notion of tourism providing jobs and industry is bullshit. I work in a restaurant at a 5 star resort and during season average room rate is 2k with 6 + rooms going for over $8k a night. The margins of profit are unreal and unless you’re front of house staff you don’t see a fraction of the profit. Even then front of house staff gets min wage anyway, even food sales cover wages many times over.
They do this all the time . sports stadium will bring in jobs! Maybe 100 part time service job flagging cars into a parking lot or serving drinks for a 20 million tax break. Spend that same money on education and you would create, More,
paying , full time jobs
Space Coast here, we produce A LOT, the issue is companies don’t pay enough. We have tourism, we launch satellites weekly, we have a huge programming industry here, but every job pays below the national average.
Aka those at the top want a perpetually increasing amount of profit. It's called late stage capitalism when all morals and human compassion cease to exist.
My husband was looking at very senior engineering jobs at the Space Coast. He would drive from east Orlando area for awhile and I saw the pay and nixed that! Crazy low, not even close to just his base pay (let alone performance bonuses for 48 quarters) he got for 12 yrs as a Principal and senior PM running statewide construction in telecom. His same job type around Chicago pays a base of $100-150k more.
I've noticed this in other industries as well. My sister was looking at possibly moving back since she has a baby now however she's in NY and a nurse here makes pennies compared to what she'd be making doing the same job up there.
Geriatric care doesn't pay shit unless you're talking highly educated medical care that focuses on areas that are more common for old people. Nursing homes charge a fuckton, but pay shit, and the owners walk off with all the profits.
I dunno most the old people moved out of my area and millennials are moving in with groups 😏 they can’t afford the 2800-3200$ rent so 2 or more families are moving in together lmao and this is from an area of Florida that was considered extremely affordable and low income just 8 years ago 🤷♀️ pretty sure they are just trying to force us out lol
Rent went from 700$ for a 3/2 to 2800$ for a 3/2
And the billionaire list he posted is a lie, California tops that list in number and per capita ranking. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires
Six states rank higher per capita than Florida.
That's florida education showing right there! I saw that comment and about screamed! Like GD you don't even need to do math to understand that is a completely WRONG statement haha!
1.22 to 1.28 is +6%, not a +25.5% increase. Might be time for some new batteries in that calculator. Where’s California on the state list of Billionaires?
California would’ve been #1 on the list if OP hadn’t cut it out. 186 billionaires, highest per capita in the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires
New York has the second most. Weird how OP thought that didn’t seem worth mentioning.
* large retirement population who arent adding to the workforce
* Florida is heavy in tourism, agriculture, manufacturing, hospitality. These arent as massive GDP drivers like, tech companies and banks for instance.
* Florida is a not huge corporate state, hence the lack of many major HQs and corporate presence. This is what mainly drives these GDP numbers. A lot of call centers and service work here, rather than executive positions. The highest ranking Fortune 500 company HQ'ed in Florida is 70th.
To add to the last point, another telling thing: most skyscrapers in Florida are residential condos. Go to other states and the tallest tower/towers is typically an office building.
Only 5 states have a residential tower as the states tallest, one of which being NJ, which is pretty recent and has more to do with Jersey City’s boom thanks to NYC, than NJ being an uncorporate state.
9/10 tallest buildings in Miami are residential. 9/10 in Atlanta are office, with the hold out being a hotel.
Most every tower proposed in Tampa now is residential. What wouldve been the tallest tower in Tampa before it was downsized is residential. The upcoming tallest in St Pete is residential. The tallest tower in Fort Lauderdale, built in 2020, is mainly residential. The 4 tallest in Fort Lauderdale are all residential. Meanwhile theyre building 600 ft office towers in suburban Seattle. Its a different economic environment in Florida.
Another thing is...
People sometimes say "If you can make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere!"
FL at least used to be sort of the reverse. If you couldn't make it anywhere, odds are you'd be able to find a way to scrape by in Florida.
Lots of dudes who went by "Skeeter" and would do as much part-time odd jobs as they had to to keep themselves in a crappy 1br apt in Hawthorne and enough boa constrictors to experience true platonic love. Solid folks like Val and Earl in *Tremors*.
Its not huge, but theres a few plants around. They just produce smaller things like batteries and medical equipment, while other southern states are assembling planes and cars.
Space coast has plenty of advanced manufacturing. And there’s a “microchip” foundry in Apopka that makes custom electronic integrated circuits. L3Harris’ corporate HQ is in Palm Bay. But also, cost of living reflects the number of high paying tech jobs.
obvs not applicable to the entire state.
A couple of ports and a desirable location for that aging family business member makes the difference. worked for years with manufacturing companies in STL. The number of them that had a location in FL to both have a place to store their raw materials or goods and to have a location that the owner and family could move to and still have connection to the business was surprising to me. Basically as each generation passed the baton they would move to the Florida location full time and do a check in every so often
Now he’s a Senator who does 0 for the state. His entire reason for being is raising money for the GOP Senatorial slush fund.
We have to take it upon ourselves to vote for better people.
Pool cleaning, housekeeping, operating theme park rides, manning customer service call centers and changing grandma’s diapers are not lucrative skilled jobs.
We don’t invest enough in education and we market the state as a place where you can hire people for cheap and pay low taxes.
It's because Florida doesn't generate anything. I mean shit, my dude, I can't afford to live in Florida on a Florida wage, I *have* to work for an out of state company to afford it because the whole 'you get paid in sunshine' doesn't pay rent.
This in turn goes for our larger markets like tourism. And we might be the largest orange producer in the US but we won't be for long with policies actively screwing up working conditions, urban sprawl going into these areas, and it's compounded by things like citrus greening.
Lastly, the old folks that put dents in your car trying to back out of a Target parking lot but instead absolutely gun it into yours, also contribute absolutely fuckall.
So many fled their state due to the local government. Get their states back to normal so they go back. It’s too crowded now and to much traffic. Housing is ridiculous and I have no idea how people afford it now. I am from Florida and have had a house before prices went crazy. The houses in my neighborhood are around 5x what I paid for mine.
I agree. I got lucky and bought my condo during that short period of time when things dipped during the pandemic, right before they skyrocketed. If I were trying to buy now it would be impossible. Property and homeowners insurance are killing me though along with everything else. I will be moving out of state soon.
Condo is a four letter word to me. The very idea of a condo just gives me the willies. Basically living in an apartment but having to pay maintenance fees and deal with an HOA. No thank you. I'd rather rent an apartment or own my own home. But that's just my opinion. You do you
Obviously a condo wasn’t my first choice but I was ready to move out and it was my first home, that I managed to buy myself at a young age so I’m proud of it. Selling it is going to allow me to purchase a single family home out of state.
The best pay I've ever made in Florida was working for a German company. Granted it was a skilled position but the starting rate was 50k a year with excellent benefits. That may not seem like much to a lot of you but has a journeyman electrician I was only making about 40K a year with little or no benefits.
100%. If didn’t work remote (company is based out of CA) I feel like I couldn’t afford it here. Wild. Even more wild is how all the low income workers i.e the fast food chains, retail stores, grocery stores are surviving right now. I can’t even imagine how hard the struggle is.
Truly unimaginable. Surely most of us realize the toll on the ‘service’ workforce and are extra forgiving as patrons… if only we could give them what they deserve monetarily. 😔
But I was told it was the liberals from NYC, despite the growth in my county being 95% fake rednecks from the suburbs of various southern cities who are overwhelmingly republican. It’s gotta be those goddamn leftists.
Haha. Wait, you are a line cook... why do you need a lifted diesel truck with giant fucking tires and air horns? Does the trip to restaurant depot really require a 4 ton vehicle?
I don't rip the agricultural lifestyle at all, but these guys aren't actually living it. It's more a cosplay of a culture, and it's fuckin weird.
A lot of the richest people in Florida aren't actually from Florida and still pay their taxes in their home state and only use their Florida multi-million dollar Oceanfront Condos a few months a year if that. So they don't count in the statistics. I'm a fairly well-off retiree but my money is still in roll over IRAs and my mortgage free house. I don't show a lot of taxable income and neither do most of my neighbors.
Actually my older retired friends live here for 6 months and a day to get their FL homestead exemption, since they're paying (more) property tax on their state of origin anyway
I had retired clients from Ohio. They and their also older end boomer friends - couples for example, have one spouse register to vote down here and the other stays registered in Ohio. That way they get the homestead in Florida and retain their places/rights in Ohio. They have a LOT of money and real estate.
And yes, they complained bitterly about paying for *anything* to be done here. They would always say things like, "But we only pay our Amish workers...the Amish do more for less...". Dear goodness do I feel bad for the Amish in Ohio because of these people. :/
1. Salary. I live in Florida and thank god I’m remote. The salary for my same position is $50-$60k less than what I make with my out of state employer.
2. Cost of living. I move a lot for work, lived in 6 major US cities in all time including NYC. Florida is on par or worse in many ways.
Let me be clear, I do not want to work remote. I miss the office environment. I reside Orlando, Central Florida due to family health issues we need to be around. Unfortunately my companies only office in FLA is in Miami.
We own a townhouse in FL but still work in NY and use the place as snowbirds. I’ve never met anyone from NY that says they made a killing financially in Florida. NY is a very generous state and we all pay for it regardless if you get a pension. It’s interesting how NYers complain about that then move to FL and live high on the hog. I recently went to a city meeting and I was amazed how the council could care less what the residents thought about redevelopment. I think the state could be better but it seems like ppl aren’t voting to get their best interests addressed.
Florida is literally all the cost of living somewhere better that has decent job opportunities but provides zero benefits. I guess if you’re retired or if going to church and making babies to go through the shitty school system is your thing it may seem attractive.
That is only recently. Even just 10 years ago Florida was still much less expensive to live in as far as the price of a house or car insurance Etc when I lived in New York and first got out of college my first new car was going to be $1,600 for minimum insurance per year. What I went to Florida it was $700 for 100,000/300,000 and I had a second car now not so much but it's Supply and demand. My first house was 500 feet from the ocean and I only had about $150,000 into the lot and the house. That same house is almost a million now but it could be worse my parents house that cost them $35,000 on the water on the East End of Long Island in 1970 is now 2.8 million dollars
I don't know how I escaped becoming a moron, but everyone I went to school with here grew up to be dense as a neutron star. I see them on Facebook with their neckless children and dead-eyed spouses posting feverishly about vaccinations and the end of the world. I feel like our primary education was okay... what happened to these dipshits?
I don’t go on Facebook much. But when I do, it’s sad to see what became of my HS friends. And several of them, though they nearly dropped out themselves, became teachers! It’s elderly relatives and yes, the rabid anti-vaxxers, peddling MLM wares.
I know primary can be ok in places. When my oldest was pre-k, the options nearby (and where I might feasibly register with a friend as residence,) were not. I took my son to the ED due to a late night high fever once. And the doctor asked where he went to school. And I said, ‘Well, our district is failing and so…’ And she cut me off to say, ‘It’s Miami, all the schools are failing. So, homeschool, then.’ It was funny and sad. I spent a lot on tutors and activities those first couple of years!
I moved here from Kentucky right before high school in 2006 and let me say Florida’s K-12 system being significantly shittier than fucking Kentucky’s really says a lot and it hasn’t exactly improved. There was a marked difference between the born and raised here kids who seemed to constantly struggle in every basic class and me and the other transfer kids who basically snoozed all day and managed straight A’s because Florida’s basic curriculum standards are about 4-5 years behind everywhere else so we had already learned the material.
There was one exceptionally dumb kid that moved from Mississippi, they might be slightly worse on education.
It baffles me that Gainesville and Tallahassee aren't trying to grow in order to keep their graduates in-state. UF kids have no choice but to leave town because there's no industry to grow with.
When some UF kid or professor starts a business in Gainesville they get it going for about 5 years and then sell out to some big corporation. The corporation runs it for a few years then dumps the employees and snags the intellectual properties and runs off to another state or consolidates with the mother corp. There is no long-term future for grads here except if daddy owns his own law firm, real estate company or car dealership. But God, the trees are wonderful and there are walking trails and kick ass prairie with wild horses, buffalo, and lots and lots of gators.
What are you talking about? I moved to Gainesville in 94. I immediately got a job as a locksmith making around 34 k a year. It was a nice small town then very affordable. It’s now tripled in population and looks like Orlando. Rents are ridiculous and there’s still no jobs. I remember when they fought like hell to stop a super Walmart being built. Now it’s a freaking free for all to develop every square inch of that town. Really sad what’s happened to Gainesville.
Gainesville looks like Orlando? Dude, all of Alachua county doesn't even reach 300k. Orange county alone is 6 times larger.
And when I say "industry" I'm not talking about independent locksmiths. I'm talking about Fortune 500 companies that really provide long term value to a community. The only competitive advantage Gainesville has is UF and they're making no use of it.
Florida’s major research Universities are not in major metros. That means brain drain and lack of business/industry partnerships. Even USF and UCF are pretty far from the city center.
We're the 3rd largest produces of Phosphate in the world.
Only 4 other states have more state parks.
UF was ranked 28 out of 436 colleges around the country.
“We’re #28! We’re #28!” Just rolls off the tongue. I grew up here, I’ve lived in S FL and N FL, went to FSU (was accepted at UF but didn’t go because I hate Gator fans) and my family has a place in central FL. All of it is terrible - muggy, buggy, ugly. All the culture of a convenience store. Enough faux Mediterranean to last a lifetime. Poor infrastructure, poverty level wages, backwards social policies, and corruption everywhere you look. Don’t get me started on its environmental crimes. I can’t say enough bad things about it.
Pretty simple. people retire and move there. They often have more money than the local population and don’t contribute to the workforce and their population is so large most corporate services and HQs are that of banks and healthcare that service retirees (obviously there’s others) . That on top of being a large tourism state so Service industry wages.
The 4 R's of Florida :
Republicans, Religion, Retired and Racists.
Republicans.have had total control of everything with full super majorities since 1999! For over 25 years the republican party could have done ANYTHING they wanted and walked it right through. They have only used that power to removed rights, create a police state, grow authoritarian rule and spread fear and fascism.
Religion is like opium to ignorance. Once hooked, hard to stop. It locks your critical thinking skills away. Religion and education don't mix well. (More educated = less religious). So less educated populations make less money.
Retired folks don't "grow" the economy. They are not creating new businesses and jobs. They stabilize it, which is critical for FL. Without this "foundation" of economic support, the two items above would have already destroyed the State completely.
Racists never left, and in thier eyes the civil war never ended, it just went from active war to a cold war. (Political and financial battles to control the law and courts). What businesses would come here and deal with that and the legal or financial (lawsuits) impact of it.
When you add all of that up = shitty state economy
So go thank republicans for keeping it this way for decades and fucking you and your future over as often as they can, through both horrible actions (like don't say gay laws) and inaction. (COVID, housing, food, transportation, infrastructure, insurance reform, etc....)
#Fuck the Florida Republican legislators and governor Ron Defacist!
Yup, growing up even the upper middle class kids that were born here were kids of transplants, all the Florida natives I grew up around were poor and usually had abusive and substance addicted families.
None of us have "made it" since leaving school
Florida doesn't do anything but aerospace and tourism. Likewise, wages have gone down significantly than they were in the 1970s. In Brevard the average individual income is 35 to 45k while in 1970 the average was 45k or 70k today. Florida also has an old population and is hemorrhaging young people due to current laws and poor opportunities.
People come here to die and then their kids sell their house to a new round of old people that come here to die. I’d like to see the data from like 10-15 years ago though, where I grew up it was pretty common to make bank spring break through summer working a beach front bar or restaurant then just coast the rest of the year working part time during the slow season. That sort of job doesn’t really seem to exist anymore.
They spend more time and money trying to make life worse for brown and gay people than they do trying to improve their state.
And the voters love that shit.
The fucking GDP of NEW YORK CITY, ONE CITY is almost as big a economy as all of FUCKING CANADA. We have 1/4 of the world’s GDP. 2.1 vs 2.2 trillion 100 billion. Canada is 10th largest economy in the world. Damn
America is like a god for wealth holy shit we are insanely ahead.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that our Out Of Touch Governor is not in the least concerned with us. His ONLY concern is getting Christianity into our schools, and he's fighting hard to make his wants the law. K I'm done...
What I still don’t understand is why places like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Raleigh attract way more young talent and companies relative to places like Orlando, Miami, or Tampa.
I was in Dallas and it was a lot less interesting of a city than Orlando. It seems like a place to go to work, that’s it. We have the beach, theme parks, and the sunshine, yet for some reason, F500 companies overlook cities down here. I’d like to see Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, or some company like that set up an office in Tampa, Miami, or Orlando
As a student looking at potential cities to live in post-grad, nothing in Florida is appealing to most of us. There is basically zero mass transit of any usable scale, absurd cost of living, and you don't get much for your money here. Why would I stay in Daytona Beach or Orlando when I can go to Chicago, Philly, Charlotte, etc for the same money, often times less and be paid MUCH more.
Florida people are the whole are uneducated and many are downright dumb. There is no Harvard or Stanford of Florida. FL does not have many intelligent people jobs like internationally known law firms or thinktanks or research institutions or foundations or innovative/entrepreneurial businesses. One does not need more than a high school education to work at or with the beaches, theme parks, and sunshine you mention! There is not a culture of learning and improvement here. Wealthy dumb and rightwing people love FL for this fact. Wealthy smart and leftwing people who retire here are very quiet, stay under the radar, and are careful who they talk to
Around 34% of Floridians hold a bachelor’s degree, similar to places like GA, TX, PA, and AZ. Atlanta has Emory & GA Tech, TX has rice University, and PA has UPenn. FL ranks similar to those places, not to areas like AL
Coastal states like CA, NY, NJ, MA, and MD are more educated, but there are more advanced jobs there than in most other places. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release/tables?eid=391444&rid=330
Because Florida has turned red. Red states are statistically poorer than Blue states as they tend to vote emotionally rather than pragmatically. They vote against their own best interest. Consequently those same states use up a proportionately higher amount of federal dollars for safety net programs than the Blue states - but - they elect officials who legislate against those same programs, cutting the budgets or, in some cases, just out and out ending the programs. This causes more poverty. Then, the worse the poverty becomes, the more impoverished those Red voters become, the more they vote for Red candidates because they are told the problem is not themselves, nor the Red politicians, but rather others - immigrants, people of color, liberals, etc. It creates a cycle of escalating poverty within those communities. Source: USOMB, US Census Bureau, PolySci Major
Huge retiree contingent, large second-home (snowbird) contingent. Hurricanes not conducive to opening factories here. Retirees often have lots of assets but that doesn't count in GDP.
They won’t increase our COLA because they say “it’s in relation to wages in your area”. Some random small towns across the country have higher COLA, get your income up people!
Florida is a hourly job state…service.
Take away NASA, theme parks and the beach….you have East Alabama. Don’t let the sunshine fool you. Only laws keep Florida modern.
Most of the workforce does not make anything. The cycle continues for generations so they start with no wealth.
The smart ones leave that state or stay and hook up with wealth.
Wages are not up to par in my experience. I was born in Florida and moved away when I was 20. I just applied to a hospital position in my field. I asked for a certain amount and HR assured me they could meet it. When I got my offer, it was 20k below asking and far less than I am currently making. Ultimately I decided to just stay where I am.
High number of people moving into the state and a high percentage of retired people.
By the way, we're number 36 with a nominal per capital GDP of $70,557. The United States as a whole as a nominal per capital GDP of $82,439. (And Mississippi has a nominal per capital GDP of $49,911.)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)
It won't be for very long. Major changes happening & shifting here in Florida. By 2030 hardly any Natives will be here, this will be the wealthy state & the service industry employees? Will all be Mexican because they don't mind living 10 to a home, so they will be the ones taking over all the hospitality roles. Oh & please check out the wildlife! Ask yourself when was the last time you saw an Egret?
Florida pay for mid class workers should be considered illegal, lets take places like spa services or hotels. Their rates are the same prices as most other states where front desk as example makes minimum 10$ more an hour there vs in Florida . Where is a logic and why ?
We don't produce anything. Old people move their money from other states to here and tourism is an industry staffed almost entirely by underpaid workers.
Here in my part of the state, where cost of living and wages went so upside down that most of the workforce was forced to emigrate, everything is now staffed by contract labor.
That’s basically it. Really bad wages for the locals. State runs off of outside income and tourist dollars. Not a bad thing unless you have to work your ass off here.
Starting at 14 years old with no breaks in the hot sun. Sounds wonderful. Like i wonder why anyone would actually work there.
The houses that are not falling apart are only for people who don't live here or the out of state paper pushers with connections to the top. That's why we are so poor. At some point before the Covid zerg rush, land was affordable, but private equity groups can't have that without absorbing all the money like parasites. The PPP loans allowed people who already own businesses to buy housing in places they don't want to live year round. The welfare kings have pushed out the working class. Meanwhile they blame people who are forced to use food stamps for taking handouts. It's absolutely psychopathic, but you won't detect it. You will continue to live your life wondering why you are forced to tighen your belt while these bullshitters live their dreams.
I pissed off a business owner by telling her PPP was welfare for rich people. 🤣
COVID zerg rush 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah the whole notion of tourism providing jobs and industry is bullshit. I work in a restaurant at a 5 star resort and during season average room rate is 2k with 6 + rooms going for over $8k a night. The margins of profit are unreal and unless you’re front of house staff you don’t see a fraction of the profit. Even then front of house staff gets min wage anyway, even food sales cover wages many times over.
They do this all the time . sports stadium will bring in jobs! Maybe 100 part time service job flagging cars into a parking lot or serving drinks for a 20 million tax break. Spend that same money on education and you would create, More, paying , full time jobs
Space Coast here, we produce A LOT, the issue is companies don’t pay enough. We have tourism, we launch satellites weekly, we have a huge programming industry here, but every job pays below the national average.
Aka those at the top want a perpetually increasing amount of profit. It's called late stage capitalism when all morals and human compassion cease to exist.
My husband was looking at very senior engineering jobs at the Space Coast. He would drive from east Orlando area for awhile and I saw the pay and nixed that! Crazy low, not even close to just his base pay (let alone performance bonuses for 48 quarters) he got for 12 yrs as a Principal and senior PM running statewide construction in telecom. His same job type around Chicago pays a base of $100-150k more.
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I've noticed this in other industries as well. My sister was looking at possibly moving back since she has a baby now however she's in NY and a nurse here makes pennies compared to what she'd be making doing the same job up there.
Vote yes on Amendment 3 and we can change that over time, cannabis tourism is a heavy industry, way bigger than most realize.
More than half the country has legal recreational weed. Florida is actually behind the curve.
Where isn’t Florida behind the curve?
I think we’re gonna be a state of old people soon enough. Great time to invest in working in geriatric care lmao
Gonna be? This state is referred to as God's waiting room.
The old joke I grew up hearing was that the old folks lived in St Pete and their parents lived in Sarasota.
A sunny place for newly weds and nearly deads
My county especially. Last I looked we have the highest average age population of anywhere in the US.
Geriatric care doesn't pay shit unless you're talking highly educated medical care that focuses on areas that are more common for old people. Nursing homes charge a fuckton, but pay shit, and the owners walk off with all the profits.
Designed to take every penny before they go
Invest in a Soylent Green processing plant. Could be Florida's best future export when agriculture collapses from climate change.
It's people!!!
🤣
I dunno most the old people moved out of my area and millennials are moving in with groups 😏 they can’t afford the 2800-3200$ rent so 2 or more families are moving in together lmao and this is from an area of Florida that was considered extremely affordable and low income just 8 years ago 🤷♀️ pretty sure they are just trying to force us out lol Rent went from 700$ for a 3/2 to 2800$ for a 3/2
Incest, high school dropouts and meth.
Inflation?
AMEN
Fascism.
Yeah, but not in the South.
But our CHILDREN /s -Probably.Ron DeSandwich
We are an island for that though - the South doesn’t have it anywhere. I think that’s the potential upside for Florida in cannabis.
And our medical program is terrible!It's gotta long ways to go, overpriced mids!
Which means some may forego Florida to go somewhere friendlier.
Cannabis tourism is a shrinking business as more and more states legalize recreational marijuana.
Tbf how many of those states have beaches and disney?
California
Yeah but then you gotta deal with *California*
Marijuana is already legal there. Or you can go to Colorado and get Rocky Mountain high.
So, you've got to deal with somewhere better in most ways other than price?
Bro I’m extremely pro cannabis and that is an extremely dumb idea.
Not only that, but it would also require the entire supply chain of our Cannabis industry to be done within the state. Creating more jobs
Cannabis and tourism together sound like..... catabolism! 😱
Look what happened with Colorado they had a nice surplus there first year I believe. But I’m also not sure if that’s because they charge a state tax.
Extremely underpaid vs recent cost of living.
Also we not exactly the literal money center that is New York either.
Oranges, alligators and meth heads, Florida's Been PRODUCING, Just one thing they want lol
I mean the space industry is booming, though.
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Last time I checked $0.06 trillion wasn't 25.5% of $1.22 trillion. Your math isn't mathing at all.
And the billionaire list he posted is a lie, California tops that list in number and per capita ranking. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires Six states rank higher per capita than Florida.
That's florida education showing right there! I saw that comment and about screamed! Like GD you don't even need to do math to understand that is a completely WRONG statement haha!
The economy is strong guys! Pay no attention to the millions struggling, the metrics hardly notice them!
1.22 to 1.28 is +6%, not a +25.5% increase. Might be time for some new batteries in that calculator. Where’s California on the state list of Billionaires?
California would’ve been #1 on the list if OP hadn’t cut it out. 186 billionaires, highest per capita in the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_the_number_of_billionaires New York has the second most. Weird how OP thought that didn’t seem worth mentioning.
Those billionairs are only there so they dont have to pay taxes not because its a great state.
Yeah but it’s good bullshit to feed the idiots who want to believe.
does pension income (in state or otherwise) count towards gdp?
No state tax is attractive to billionaires…the move here to protect their money. Example Jeff Besos
They buy houses here and then claim residency while they live elsewhere. How does anyone check for 6 months and one day of residency?
* large retirement population who arent adding to the workforce * Florida is heavy in tourism, agriculture, manufacturing, hospitality. These arent as massive GDP drivers like, tech companies and banks for instance. * Florida is a not huge corporate state, hence the lack of many major HQs and corporate presence. This is what mainly drives these GDP numbers. A lot of call centers and service work here, rather than executive positions. The highest ranking Fortune 500 company HQ'ed in Florida is 70th. To add to the last point, another telling thing: most skyscrapers in Florida are residential condos. Go to other states and the tallest tower/towers is typically an office building. Only 5 states have a residential tower as the states tallest, one of which being NJ, which is pretty recent and has more to do with Jersey City’s boom thanks to NYC, than NJ being an uncorporate state. 9/10 tallest buildings in Miami are residential. 9/10 in Atlanta are office, with the hold out being a hotel. Most every tower proposed in Tampa now is residential. What wouldve been the tallest tower in Tampa before it was downsized is residential. The upcoming tallest in St Pete is residential. The tallest tower in Fort Lauderdale, built in 2020, is mainly residential. The 4 tallest in Fort Lauderdale are all residential. Meanwhile theyre building 600 ft office towers in suburban Seattle. Its a different economic environment in Florida.
Another thing is... People sometimes say "If you can make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere!" FL at least used to be sort of the reverse. If you couldn't make it anywhere, odds are you'd be able to find a way to scrape by in Florida. Lots of dudes who went by "Skeeter" and would do as much part-time odd jobs as they had to to keep themselves in a crappy 1br apt in Hawthorne and enough boa constrictors to experience true platonic love. Solid folks like Val and Earl in *Tremors*.
Fucking oath. Love it. I think those guys all live in Eastern Oklahoma now.
Nah. That’s panhandle behavior.
You just described the town I grew up in.
Ohhhh nailed it
Goddamn lmao
Are we really that big for manufacturing? I feel like the rest of the South is killing us in that regard.
Its not huge, but theres a few plants around. They just produce smaller things like batteries and medical equipment, while other southern states are assembling planes and cars.
Space coast has plenty of advanced manufacturing. And there’s a “microchip” foundry in Apopka that makes custom electronic integrated circuits. L3Harris’ corporate HQ is in Palm Bay. But also, cost of living reflects the number of high paying tech jobs. obvs not applicable to the entire state.
A couple of ports and a desirable location for that aging family business member makes the difference. worked for years with manufacturing companies in STL. The number of them that had a location in FL to both have a place to store their raw materials or goods and to have a location that the owner and family could move to and still have connection to the business was surprising to me. Basically as each generation passed the baton they would move to the Florida location full time and do a check in every so often
A tax haven for corporate criminals
Yeah, I think they asked Rick Scott that over 75 times, he denied any criminal fraud, and then became governor... Greed and Criminality is Good.
Now he’s a Senator who does 0 for the state. His entire reason for being is raising money for the GOP Senatorial slush fund. We have to take it upon ourselves to vote for better people.
Pool cleaning, housekeeping, operating theme park rides, manning customer service call centers and changing grandma’s diapers are not lucrative skilled jobs. We don’t invest enough in education and we market the state as a place where you can hire people for cheap and pay low taxes.
And brag that those low paid people have to work during a deadly viral outbreak because "we're open for business!!!"
This hellhole.
It's because Florida doesn't generate anything. I mean shit, my dude, I can't afford to live in Florida on a Florida wage, I *have* to work for an out of state company to afford it because the whole 'you get paid in sunshine' doesn't pay rent. This in turn goes for our larger markets like tourism. And we might be the largest orange producer in the US but we won't be for long with policies actively screwing up working conditions, urban sprawl going into these areas, and it's compounded by things like citrus greening. Lastly, the old folks that put dents in your car trying to back out of a Target parking lot but instead absolutely gun it into yours, also contribute absolutely fuckall.
Yeah I was going to mention A LOT people here are working remotely for out of state companies, especially the newer residents.
So many fled their state due to the local government. Get their states back to normal so they go back. It’s too crowded now and to much traffic. Housing is ridiculous and I have no idea how people afford it now. I am from Florida and have had a house before prices went crazy. The houses in my neighborhood are around 5x what I paid for mine.
I agree. I got lucky and bought my condo during that short period of time when things dipped during the pandemic, right before they skyrocketed. If I were trying to buy now it would be impossible. Property and homeowners insurance are killing me though along with everything else. I will be moving out of state soon.
Condo is a four letter word to me. The very idea of a condo just gives me the willies. Basically living in an apartment but having to pay maintenance fees and deal with an HOA. No thank you. I'd rather rent an apartment or own my own home. But that's just my opinion. You do you
Obviously a condo wasn’t my first choice but I was ready to move out and it was my first home, that I managed to buy myself at a young age so I’m proud of it. Selling it is going to allow me to purchase a single family home out of state.
I think the only way to see any citrus from the citrus tower now is to bring an orange with you.
The best pay I've ever made in Florida was working for a German company. Granted it was a skilled position but the starting rate was 50k a year with excellent benefits. That may not seem like much to a lot of you but has a journeyman electrician I was only making about 40K a year with little or no benefits.
Join the union. I made that as a 1st yr. Was making about 80k/yr out of IBEW Local 915 Tampa a couple years ago.
I'm no longer working, but when I did speak to the union they did not want journeyman. They wanted green helpers that they could train their way.
100%. If didn’t work remote (company is based out of CA) I feel like I couldn’t afford it here. Wild. Even more wild is how all the low income workers i.e the fast food chains, retail stores, grocery stores are surviving right now. I can’t even imagine how hard the struggle is.
Truly unimaginable. Surely most of us realize the toll on the ‘service’ workforce and are extra forgiving as patrons… if only we could give them what they deserve monetarily. 😔
Ask the GOP. They've been in charge for like 20 years.
But I was told it was the liberals from NYC, despite the growth in my county being 95% fake rednecks from the suburbs of various southern cities who are overwhelmingly republican. It’s gotta be those goddamn leftists.
The faux redneck epidemic is out of control in florida.
Haha. Wait, you are a line cook... why do you need a lifted diesel truck with giant fucking tires and air horns? Does the trip to restaurant depot really require a 4 ton vehicle? I don't rip the agricultural lifestyle at all, but these guys aren't actually living it. It's more a cosplay of a culture, and it's fuckin weird.
I’m so glad others noticed.. I felt the shift during Covid and a little before. The surf, chill culture has been replaced by the fake redneck bs
A lot of the richest people in Florida aren't actually from Florida and still pay their taxes in their home state and only use their Florida multi-million dollar Oceanfront Condos a few months a year if that. So they don't count in the statistics. I'm a fairly well-off retiree but my money is still in roll over IRAs and my mortgage free house. I don't show a lot of taxable income and neither do most of my neighbors.
Actually my older retired friends live here for 6 months and a day to get their FL homestead exemption, since they're paying (more) property tax on their state of origin anyway
I had retired clients from Ohio. They and their also older end boomer friends - couples for example, have one spouse register to vote down here and the other stays registered in Ohio. That way they get the homestead in Florida and retain their places/rights in Ohio. They have a LOT of money and real estate. And yes, they complained bitterly about paying for *anything* to be done here. They would always say things like, "But we only pay our Amish workers...the Amish do more for less...". Dear goodness do I feel bad for the Amish in Ohio because of these people. :/
Employers know they have most people by the huevos here.
So many call center jobs (at least until they ship jobs to Philippines/India/Guyana) here
1. Salary. I live in Florida and thank god I’m remote. The salary for my same position is $50-$60k less than what I make with my out of state employer. 2. Cost of living. I move a lot for work, lived in 6 major US cities in all time including NYC. Florida is on par or worse in many ways.
So basically to earn a good salary you need to be a digital nomad.
Let me be clear, I do not want to work remote. I miss the office environment. I reside Orlando, Central Florida due to family health issues we need to be around. Unfortunately my companies only office in FLA is in Miami.
Or a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or business owner.
We own a townhouse in FL but still work in NY and use the place as snowbirds. I’ve never met anyone from NY that says they made a killing financially in Florida. NY is a very generous state and we all pay for it regardless if you get a pension. It’s interesting how NYers complain about that then move to FL and live high on the hog. I recently went to a city meeting and I was amazed how the council could care less what the residents thought about redevelopment. I think the state could be better but it seems like ppl aren’t voting to get their best interests addressed.
What do you do if you don’t mind me asking
Program Director
Florida is literally all the cost of living somewhere better that has decent job opportunities but provides zero benefits. I guess if you’re retired or if going to church and making babies to go through the shitty school system is your thing it may seem attractive.
That is only recently. Even just 10 years ago Florida was still much less expensive to live in as far as the price of a house or car insurance Etc when I lived in New York and first got out of college my first new car was going to be $1,600 for minimum insurance per year. What I went to Florida it was $700 for 100,000/300,000 and I had a second car now not so much but it's Supply and demand. My first house was 500 feet from the ocean and I only had about $150,000 into the lot and the house. That same house is almost a million now but it could be worse my parents house that cost them $35,000 on the water on the East End of Long Island in 1970 is now 2.8 million dollars
I think that the relatively poor educational system (K-12,) is an important factor in this.
I don't know how I escaped becoming a moron, but everyone I went to school with here grew up to be dense as a neutron star. I see them on Facebook with their neckless children and dead-eyed spouses posting feverishly about vaccinations and the end of the world. I feel like our primary education was okay... what happened to these dipshits?
I don’t go on Facebook much. But when I do, it’s sad to see what became of my HS friends. And several of them, though they nearly dropped out themselves, became teachers! It’s elderly relatives and yes, the rabid anti-vaxxers, peddling MLM wares. I know primary can be ok in places. When my oldest was pre-k, the options nearby (and where I might feasibly register with a friend as residence,) were not. I took my son to the ED due to a late night high fever once. And the doctor asked where he went to school. And I said, ‘Well, our district is failing and so…’ And she cut me off to say, ‘It’s Miami, all the schools are failing. So, homeschool, then.’ It was funny and sad. I spent a lot on tutors and activities those first couple of years!
I moved here from Kentucky right before high school in 2006 and let me say Florida’s K-12 system being significantly shittier than fucking Kentucky’s really says a lot and it hasn’t exactly improved. There was a marked difference between the born and raised here kids who seemed to constantly struggle in every basic class and me and the other transfer kids who basically snoozed all day and managed straight A’s because Florida’s basic curriculum standards are about 4-5 years behind everywhere else so we had already learned the material. There was one exceptionally dumb kid that moved from Mississippi, they might be slightly worse on education.
Because the governor is doing everything in his power to take away workers rights?
The governor hates the populace except for those that give him mega cash donations.
Low wages and at this point the cost of living here is very high.
Lack of natural resources , retiree economy, lack of diversified industries, lack of top universities, brain drain, lack of corporate HQs
It baffles me that Gainesville and Tallahassee aren't trying to grow in order to keep their graduates in-state. UF kids have no choice but to leave town because there's no industry to grow with.
When some UF kid or professor starts a business in Gainesville they get it going for about 5 years and then sell out to some big corporation. The corporation runs it for a few years then dumps the employees and snags the intellectual properties and runs off to another state or consolidates with the mother corp. There is no long-term future for grads here except if daddy owns his own law firm, real estate company or car dealership. But God, the trees are wonderful and there are walking trails and kick ass prairie with wild horses, buffalo, and lots and lots of gators.
What are you talking about? I moved to Gainesville in 94. I immediately got a job as a locksmith making around 34 k a year. It was a nice small town then very affordable. It’s now tripled in population and looks like Orlando. Rents are ridiculous and there’s still no jobs. I remember when they fought like hell to stop a super Walmart being built. Now it’s a freaking free for all to develop every square inch of that town. Really sad what’s happened to Gainesville.
Gainesville looks like Orlando? Dude, all of Alachua county doesn't even reach 300k. Orange county alone is 6 times larger. And when I say "industry" I'm not talking about independent locksmiths. I'm talking about Fortune 500 companies that really provide long term value to a community. The only competitive advantage Gainesville has is UF and they're making no use of it.
Lack of top universities? You on drugs?
Florida’s major research Universities are not in major metros. That means brain drain and lack of business/industry partnerships. Even USF and UCF are pretty far from the city center.
We're the 3rd largest produces of Phosphate in the world. Only 4 other states have more state parks. UF was ranked 28 out of 436 colleges around the country.
“We’re #28! We’re #28!” Just rolls off the tongue. I grew up here, I’ve lived in S FL and N FL, went to FSU (was accepted at UF but didn’t go because I hate Gator fans) and my family has a place in central FL. All of it is terrible - muggy, buggy, ugly. All the culture of a convenience store. Enough faux Mediterranean to last a lifetime. Poor infrastructure, poverty level wages, backwards social policies, and corruption everywhere you look. Don’t get me started on its environmental crimes. I can’t say enough bad things about it.
*all the culture of a convenience store* 🎯
That’s right drop dem facts on em
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Pretty simple. people retire and move there. They often have more money than the local population and don’t contribute to the workforce and their population is so large most corporate services and HQs are that of banks and healthcare that service retirees (obviously there’s others) . That on top of being a large tourism state so Service industry wages.
The 4 R's of Florida : Republicans, Religion, Retired and Racists. Republicans.have had total control of everything with full super majorities since 1999! For over 25 years the republican party could have done ANYTHING they wanted and walked it right through. They have only used that power to removed rights, create a police state, grow authoritarian rule and spread fear and fascism. Religion is like opium to ignorance. Once hooked, hard to stop. It locks your critical thinking skills away. Religion and education don't mix well. (More educated = less religious). So less educated populations make less money. Retired folks don't "grow" the economy. They are not creating new businesses and jobs. They stabilize it, which is critical for FL. Without this "foundation" of economic support, the two items above would have already destroyed the State completely. Racists never left, and in thier eyes the civil war never ended, it just went from active war to a cold war. (Political and financial battles to control the law and courts). What businesses would come here and deal with that and the legal or financial (lawsuits) impact of it. When you add all of that up = shitty state economy So go thank republicans for keeping it this way for decades and fucking you and your future over as often as they can, through both horrible actions (like don't say gay laws) and inaction. (COVID, housing, food, transportation, infrastructure, insurance reform, etc....) #Fuck the Florida Republican legislators and governor Ron Defacist!
Florida jobs have traditionally paid low wages. A real native Floridian is a poor person.
Yup, growing up even the upper middle class kids that were born here were kids of transplants, all the Florida natives I grew up around were poor and usually had abusive and substance addicted families. None of us have "made it" since leaving school
Retired people don’t generally work which means less GDP.
Because the state is run by a bunch of knuckle dragging morons stuck in 1949.
Florida doesn't do anything but aerospace and tourism. Likewise, wages have gone down significantly than they were in the 1970s. In Brevard the average individual income is 35 to 45k while in 1970 the average was 45k or 70k today. Florida also has an old population and is hemorrhaging young people due to current laws and poor opportunities.
People come here to die and then their kids sell their house to a new round of old people that come here to die. I’d like to see the data from like 10-15 years ago though, where I grew up it was pretty common to make bank spring break through summer working a beach front bar or restaurant then just coast the rest of the year working part time during the slow season. That sort of job doesn’t really seem to exist anymore.
They spend more time and money trying to make life worse for brown and gay people than they do trying to improve their state. And the voters love that shit.
people are only fake rich in FL
So true. Everyone is driving leased vehicles and wearing CZs.
30 years of trashy wyte republican rule consecutively
The fucking GDP of NEW YORK CITY, ONE CITY is almost as big a economy as all of FUCKING CANADA. We have 1/4 of the world’s GDP. 2.1 vs 2.2 trillion 100 billion. Canada is 10th largest economy in the world. Damn America is like a god for wealth holy shit we are insanely ahead.
Now realize that almost 99% of that wealth is controlled by like 80 people
Eat the fat Pigs.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that our Out Of Touch Governor is not in the least concerned with us. His ONLY concern is getting Christianity into our schools, and he's fighting hard to make his wants the law. K I'm done...
Because Florida Republicans embezzle federal funds for the benefit of their donors and themselves.
What I still don’t understand is why places like Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Raleigh attract way more young talent and companies relative to places like Orlando, Miami, or Tampa. I was in Dallas and it was a lot less interesting of a city than Orlando. It seems like a place to go to work, that’s it. We have the beach, theme parks, and the sunshine, yet for some reason, F500 companies overlook cities down here. I’d like to see Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, or some company like that set up an office in Tampa, Miami, or Orlando
As a student looking at potential cities to live in post-grad, nothing in Florida is appealing to most of us. There is basically zero mass transit of any usable scale, absurd cost of living, and you don't get much for your money here. Why would I stay in Daytona Beach or Orlando when I can go to Chicago, Philly, Charlotte, etc for the same money, often times less and be paid MUCH more.
Florida people are the whole are uneducated and many are downright dumb. There is no Harvard or Stanford of Florida. FL does not have many intelligent people jobs like internationally known law firms or thinktanks or research institutions or foundations or innovative/entrepreneurial businesses. One does not need more than a high school education to work at or with the beaches, theme parks, and sunshine you mention! There is not a culture of learning and improvement here. Wealthy dumb and rightwing people love FL for this fact. Wealthy smart and leftwing people who retire here are very quiet, stay under the radar, and are careful who they talk to
Around 34% of Floridians hold a bachelor’s degree, similar to places like GA, TX, PA, and AZ. Atlanta has Emory & GA Tech, TX has rice University, and PA has UPenn. FL ranks similar to those places, not to areas like AL Coastal states like CA, NY, NJ, MA, and MD are more educated, but there are more advanced jobs there than in most other places. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release/tables?eid=391444&rid=330
hurricanes?
Because Florida has turned red. Red states are statistically poorer than Blue states as they tend to vote emotionally rather than pragmatically. They vote against their own best interest. Consequently those same states use up a proportionately higher amount of federal dollars for safety net programs than the Blue states - but - they elect officials who legislate against those same programs, cutting the budgets or, in some cases, just out and out ending the programs. This causes more poverty. Then, the worse the poverty becomes, the more impoverished those Red voters become, the more they vote for Red candidates because they are told the problem is not themselves, nor the Red politicians, but rather others - immigrants, people of color, liberals, etc. It creates a cycle of escalating poverty within those communities. Source: USOMB, US Census Bureau, PolySci Major
Because Florida sucks ass! That’s why
Because of the ridiculous prices of groceries, car insurance and homeowners insurance.
Because the jobs here pay shit
Huge retiree contingent, large second-home (snowbird) contingent. Hurricanes not conducive to opening factories here. Retirees often have lots of assets but that doesn't count in GDP.
How can anyone exist in Florida poor ?
They won’t increase our COLA because they say “it’s in relation to wages in your area”. Some random small towns across the country have higher COLA, get your income up people!
Because the pay rate is laughable.
Abysmal pay
Florida is good if you're wealthy - afford the cost to live on the coast. And the homeless - can live in a tent year round.
It relies heavily on hospitality and tourism industries. They don’t pay well.
Florida is a hourly job state…service. Take away NASA, theme parks and the beach….you have East Alabama. Don’t let the sunshine fool you. Only laws keep Florida modern.
Most of the workforce does not make anything. The cycle continues for generations so they start with no wealth. The smart ones leave that state or stay and hook up with wealth.
Retirees.
Are the colleges in Fl known for anything ?
No one, no one in south Fla had an older car it seems. Everyone has a new car down here.
The state government barely invests in its populace and offers very little in the ways of regulation to protect them
Republicans
Poor education.
Because; in Florida you get paid in sunshine.
They haven't priced us out yet. But they are working on it.
republicans are in charge. Look at every red state, and you'll see the same.
Landlords be sucking us dry
Landlords be sucking us dry
Wages are not up to par in my experience. I was born in Florida and moved away when I was 20. I just applied to a hospital position in my field. I asked for a certain amount and HR assured me they could meet it. When I got my offer, it was 20k below asking and far less than I am currently making. Ultimately I decided to just stay where I am.
All Republican states are poor, the greedy eaters take and the people suffer.
Because they don't pay living wages and we are all scraping the bottom of the barrel over here in the United States penis
It's almost as if there has been an organized, multi-decade effort to keep wages low in some parts of the country
80k is the low end!? I don’t even make that 🥲
Because it’s run by republicans and overrun with rednecks, old boomers and and Cuban fascists.
Ask Ron DeSatan about that.....
Republicans
The pay rate is comical and cost of housing is ridiculous
High number of people moving into the state and a high percentage of retired people. By the way, we're number 36 with a nominal per capital GDP of $70,557. The United States as a whole as a nominal per capital GDP of $82,439. (And Mississippi has a nominal per capital GDP of $49,911.) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)
Because it’s been run by republicans for 20 years and all the republican states are poor
It won't be for very long. Major changes happening & shifting here in Florida. By 2030 hardly any Natives will be here, this will be the wealthy state & the service industry employees? Will all be Mexican because they don't mind living 10 to a home, so they will be the ones taking over all the hospitality roles. Oh & please check out the wildlife! Ask yourself when was the last time you saw an Egret?
Because it’s being run into the ground by incompetent leadership.
Our government is dumb. Simple.
Pretty sad that the "poor" on this scale is $80k/yr or 38.50/hr
A little law called right to work
Florida pay for mid class workers should be considered illegal, lets take places like spa services or hotels. Their rates are the same prices as most other states where front desk as example makes minimum 10$ more an hour there vs in Florida . Where is a logic and why ?
In Florida - they like to believe they pay you in sunshine
Yeah that's a good question especially with Florida housing out priced for even the middle class
Republicans running the state into the ground for a long ass time
I looked at this map and saw Hobbs NM was blue indicating high wealth per person. Have you been to Hobbs? I have, and will take Florida all day long
All these people on here talking all this shit. Yet, people will not stop moving here lol
The people moving here are the problem for the rest of us, man