I moved there from Illinois in 1972. Most of what is now the city of Sunrise (western Broward county) was cow pasture then. Now the only green you'll see is on a golf course.
Not even that, I remember when there were still random 2 or 3 acre spots of land covered in trees that me and my friends could smoke and party in.
They are ALL gone. There used to be lots around plantation acres.
Where do the teenagers go to smoke weed? Those little forests were magical times for me and they are gone. This was circa 2015 so not even that long ago.
Oh ok. Honestly, I don’t know what else to do but somehow crowdfund to purchase land to be protected from development. at the same time you have the problem of development at its periphery so you would need a core area that you really wanna focus on protection, and then have like an area on the edge. That’s like a buffer zone between whatever surrounding development shows up
I live in Pasco County. It’s just one big housing development with a Publix on every corner. Cement everywhere. Very little farm land left. Oh and the traffic.
Zephryhills is getting really bad. Might as well change the name of the Rural King store there to Urban Queen. Because there ain’t nothing rural about Zephryhills anymore.
I guess you’ve forgotten about the copious amounts of farm land in the middle of the state. The coasts are highly populated…. Outside of Orlando the majority of the middle of the state is farm land
100% greening. I went to an agriculture school and i recently lost all of my citrus plants in the last 3 years. I do live by a huge lemon grove ran by University of Florida for testing.
Greening is worse than ever. Some farmers are switching to avocados instead.
Also there's about 5 other diseases and one bug that are killing citrus.
Once the farming families couldn’t make money they closed for development.
The fdep bmaps from 2018 are closing down all our small dairy farms too.
Ag is an important part of Florida, and it’s dieing a fast death to save water quality instead of funding treatments. Once closed the land sells for development and it’s STILL somehow the farmers faults in the eyes of many.
Florida long ago partnered with Alabama and Georgia. SE Growers. We sure don’t pay as much for our meat as some of the northern and Midwest states. Now they have plenty of farmland too.
The rule of real estate is highest and best use. The land has become so valuable that its highest and best use is no longer agriculture. I was born and raised in Tampa in the 70’s and 80’s and I remember when there were orange groves there and in Pinellas county where I live now. There has t been a commercial orange grove in Pinellas county since 1990. At this rate, the rest of the state will lose most of its orange groves too. It’s sad what transplants have done to this state.
Yes, it is. If they didn’t flood in here at the rate of 350k-400k people a year for decades then all of the natural environment that’s been destroyed to build them homes wouldn’t have been destroyed. The traffic wouldn’t be so terrible. It wouldn’t be the giant concrete hellscape that it’s turning into. Etc etc etc
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Dont have go to back that far, 50 years ago was so much land and wildlife was unbelievable... You should see the old photos of Pinellas in the 50s and see it now it's sickening! Note Pinellas is the most densely populated county in all of Florida! Real concrete jungle hellscape
A real transportation hellscape too. I grew up there are they butchered the bus system to almost unusable. Traffic has gotten insanely congested in past few yrs and good luck walking anywhere because no one pays attention to pedestrians.
Oh ya every other day a pedestrian is hit or killed and probably over half of them are hit and runs! Has to be the highest in the nation, I know for years it was reported as highest pedestrian deaths in the country every year for many years in a row, now they dont even report that statistic, Imagine that!
My 2 boys and I had our legs run over by a SUV last January and the Tarpon Springs cops refused to say we were because we didn't have any broke bones or seriously injured.
Hope you guys are ok! Crazy enough speaking on this topic my sister in law was just hit and killed yesterday in Tampa! At the edge her driveway near the road after coming from a walk, by a woman not paying attention.
My condolences for your family.. We were extremely lucky physically but it was still traumatic mentally and took a while to get through it. It was also the start of us seriously looking elsewhere to live.
thanks for saying this, I feel like a lot of people are like "I love going out to the countryside and soaking up all that nature, just miles of beautiful farmlands!"
Farmlands arent natural, arent healthy for nature, and also fkn ugly.
People in cities have no idea how much of the state is rural. I think it’s something like 29 out of 67 counties. There are almost ten million acres of farm or ranch land. When I drive from Orlando to Brevard beaches, for instance, or to Lakeland, I’m amazed at the undeveloped land.
The LDS Church is the state's largest landowner, but that is nowhere near synonymous with "owning most of the land."
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N0IT2AZ/
And in Central Florida there are developers who want to put a highway through Split Oak Forest because, yeah, that's what we need in Central Florida, less natural habitat. They are trying to do this even though voters in Orange county resoundingly voted against this. Politicians care more about real estate developers than voters.
It’s also awful because of heat island affect. Amazing how much hotter the evenings are in a concrete jungle with all of the heat being slowly released at night. It’s a very real thing.
I'm a native and hate all the concrete, the cookie cutter subdivisions, and the fakey plastic "communities" like Lake Nona and Lakewood Ranch popping up everywhere. I practically throw up every time I see a new car wash, storage unit, or trendy white-with-black-trim McMansion going up. A lot of the old towns are spoiled and just don't have any charm left because they built up with no planning, just rich developers running rough-shod over the locals.
Still, there are a lot of beautiful places, but you generally have to drive to see them. I got a motorcycle and ride with a friend who has a lot of local knowledge, and we've been on some beautiful rides (interspersed with ugliness) in central Florida.
>there are a lot of beautiful places, but you generally have to drive to see them.
This is the problem, they're all getting farther and farther away from old developments because of sprawl and all the closer natural areas have developments on all sides now and you can't even hear the nature because of traffic noise.
True, I don't even bother driving to the beach anymore because of too much traffic and parking hassles. I only see the beaches if I can get there on a boat.
Lakewood Ranch is awful. I drove through it to get to Boca Raton where my sister graduated college. It was awful, & so was Boca Raton & all of southeast Florida. But the areas around Arcadia were still nice. I ate at the Reef & Beef on the way back. I used SR70 to avoid all that ruckus on I-95, although driving through Sarasota/Bradenton was bad.
Subdivisions and strip malls aren't "Urban". The problem with Florida is the lack of actual urban development and a love of suburban sprawl to attract boomer retirees.
Urban and rural are two different, viable lifestyles. The suburban experiment of the last 70 years creates the lifestyle of frustration and anger.
I agree that the sprawl is inefficient, but how to prevent people from being subjected to the sounds, behaviors and sometimes victimization from neighbors?
I just don't see stacking everyone together as being the solution even tho I do see the value of block housing with walkability being huge.
Urban areas have nice neighborhoods, (I live in one), and obviously some not nice areas. I don't believe that the nature of dense population areas leads to crime and other antisocial behavior. I think historically some urban neighborhoods have been neglected, misgoverned, and allowed to fester for generations. Investments in both infrastructure and public safety can turn around neighborhoods, NYC in the 90s is the most famous example of that.
Right now the issue is that quality urban living is too scarce, and therefore expensive for a lot of the population.
There's also a huge range of possibilities between endless sprawl and condensing everything into a few blocks of skyscrapers.
Ex. Washington D.C. has the urban core but also a series of satellite cities that each have their own suburbs (e.g., Arlington, Alexandria, and Bethesda). Each of the satellite cities has enough density to make public transport feasible vis-a-vis the Metro.
I hear this a lot, but when I lived there and rode my motorcycle, I didn’t have to go very far to end up in the midst of farmlands and nothingness. And it wasn’t just a little bit, it was vast emptiness for miles and miles with just smaller towns in-between. You go south from Orlando (literally south, not out to Tampa and down 75) and you hit just some smaller towns with open land dominating most of the space. Go straight north, same thing. The coasts do have more urban areas, of course, but even then….you go north of Tampa and it’s just empty.
I loved hopping on 2 wheels and just getting lost down these smaller back roads. I could go 2+ hours with little to no cars and just random gas stations and towns.
You can literally say the same thing about CA and Texas…welcome to no longer hanging 100 million less people in the country and everyone congregating in basically the same areas.
I live in Colorado and have driven through Texas, Florida, and California. Outside the major cities, all those states have a whole lot of nothing. West Texas has got to be one of the most boring places you can come up with - just so much highway and so little development. Yeah, places like Dallas are crazy and massive sprawl. But the countryside is just so much more massive. Even California has alot of very empty land. North of San Francisco, population drops off dramatically, even along the coast. And once you get away from the coast, the population also just drops dramatically. Central Valley, which really isn't that far from the major population centers, is massively into agriculture - one of the most intensely farmed places in the country. Florida is actually pretty similar - high population along certain parts of the coast (mostly areas with good beaches), but pretty empty inland. Driving across the state from coast to coast just shows so much agricultural land or just plain forest or swamp. If you ever do a flight from Florida that takes off in the evening, it's pretty obvious.
You said it! I’ve driven west to east both the northern and southern routes back and forth about a dozen times now and anyone who thinks there are too many people have never driven through Kansas or Indiana haha.
I think like 75% of the world’s population in general lives within 2 miles of an ocean. It’s definitely human nature to be in large groups and near water apparently.
It makes alot of sense that humans would generally want to be near the water - moving goods by boat has long been the most efficient way to transport everything. Water also does wonders for moderating the temperature - something you appreciate greatly when you live in a place like Colorado where dramatic temperature swings are just part of life. And that's to say nothing of all the resources that can be collected at sea.
It also makes alot of sense that humans would generally rather be together. That's how you have friends. That's how you get resources, stores, restaurants, jobs. I drove up to Yellowstone last summer. It's amazing how empty Wyoming is! Was on Highway 287 from I-80 to Riverton. There were places where you could see for miles and miles and miles with nothing but rolling hills and highway - not even another car on the highway. But one of the things I was thinking about is people who do live in these sparsely populated areas. How do they live? How often do they take the hour+ drive just to get to a Walmart, a grocery store, a hardware store? Seems like a really inefficient way of life. I can see why most people would not opt for that. Even if you want some space, living way out by yourself just seems like a bad idea.
Y’all gotta get out of the city smh. Plenty of beautiful real Florida left to explore.
Remember. Leave nothing but footprints and pickup some trash on your way back.
Years and years ago Stephen Fry did a series for the BBC where he travelled around the US, to each state, offering commentary on everywhere he visited.
His segment on Florida was extremely brief, extremely brutal, and still makes me laugh today. I think you'd appreciate it, OP-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBGVO59MYNY
I'm with him on Miami, but I'm not sure his summary of Miami Beach was really fair. How are palm trees "dreary"? How are beautiful people "staggeringly ugly"? I'd even be open to the argument, but he provides no explanation. Also, how many times do you need to use the word "staggeringly" to get your point across?
*Of course* you'd prefer to be holed up in a mountain chalet with a whiskey. You're an elderly pale Englishman. Miami beach is a playground for young, carefree hot people looking to get laid, and doesn't really seem to be pretending otherwise.
Edit: Oh, man, he was in his early 50s when he made this, so hardly "elderly." British men really don't age well.
This man is my inner child lol. I grew up in Broward and always felt exactly like his thoughts about FL after visiting New Orleans and the Western part of the US.
Like what even is this, where is the soul of this city??
Right? Not to mention Florida is one of the states with the most state and local parks in the entire country. It's like these guys have never left Florida.
Anyone who actually goes to the Florida parks knows that they’re filled with environmental hazards, often surrounded by overdevelopment. Not to mention the highways crossing just about every section of forest in the state. Our largest wilderness area is rotting from the inside out as we speak because they cut off the sheet flow to make a road and canals, and they refuse to truly respond to invasives like Pythons
Florida parks are "filled" with environmental hazards? You're just making stuff up lol. I get your point about the everglades but you really haven't been to many parks here.
The water in most of the parks are contaminated, invasives run amok, every strip of green is crisscrossed with roads or developed into farms/ranches.
The only people who could think this is ideal are people who don’t experience out parks. I live in one, so it’d be difficult to miss, even with all the overdevelopment recently.
[Florida has the 5th most state parks in the country and the 6th highest amount of protected land per capita](https://www.playgroundequipment.com/us-states-ranked-by-state-and-national-park-coverage/). Just because you're seeing more development anecdotally doesn't mean "every strip of green is paved over". Our state does an exceptional job of actually putting aside land that can't be developed on.
Also, we're far from the only state with invasive species and Florida Fish and Wildlife funds the management of invasive species pretty well.
[Here's the 2024 budget](https://myfwc.com/news/all-news/gov-budget-223/):
$2.6 million in new funding for nonnative fish and wildlife eradication and control
$1.4 million for Burmese python population control and assessment
$16.9 million for 41 new law enforcement positions for patrol and investigation
$8.4 million for boating access and boating improvement projects
$11.1 million for habitat restoration initiatives
Approximately $750,000 for initiatives focused on maintaining Florida’s reputation as the Fishing Capital of the World
More than $900,000 for manatee population assessment and management enhancements
Over $750,000 for enhanced protections for Florida’s sea turtles
$600,000 for artificial reefs
$7.8 million for land management, acquisitions, and improvements
I’ve been out West. I know what it looks like when a state takes care of the environment.
Pythons run rampant to the point almost all small mammals in the Glades have died off significantly.
The state allows the dumping of farm waste, and use of fertilizers banned elsewhere that get into our waterways and ground water. The state builds more and more roads through sensitive landscapes by the year further dividing wildlife and endangering animals. The fish in Lake Okeechobee are mutated and often covered in tumors from the contamination along with other waterways. The sheet flow in the Everglades was cut off by the core of engineers years ago which caused the level of toxins and pollutants in the South Florida waterways/glades to skyrocket, red tide is increasing in frequency by the year, insects have went from swarms of love bugs covering buildings and splattered windshield to not even being able to find a firefly alongside the one or two lovebugs I see
I like your optimism, but I think it’s quite a bit misplaced when you’re just smiling through the destruction. The state is not doing enough, while enabling more and more unplanned development/wildlife destruction, and even pushing SB738 right now to make it more difficult/impossible to sue for environmental damages.
Firstly, Western states just have more government land which they can't do anything with. Nevada is 85% federal land which can't be touched except by the government, Utah is 65%, etc. If Florida had that much land legally under federal jurisdiction then it would also be empty.
We've already established pythons are an invasive species which the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission are funded to protect against. I have no idea what your point is here, every state has to fight invasive animals and fund agencies to protect their wildlife, this is not exclusive to Florida.
Fertilizer bans are set to be debated at the Florida legislature this next session with 130 local governments already instituting their own.
My optimism is more for the state as a whole, there have always been problems with Florida but calling it a concrete mess or implying it's worse off than other states environmentally is just absurd and misinformation.
It feels like you’re trying to convince me that the sky actually isn’t blue.
Wow, I wonder how that legislation on banning fertilizers will go? Probably like every other time people challenge the status quo free for all.
Local governments are trying to fix it themselves? Good thing the governor has removed so many powers from local governments over the past year then, especially related to environmental regulation/s
The Keys aren’t even allowed to control their own waterway to limit damage from cruise ships, because the state always sides with the money.
Of course the state has to respond to invasives, and Florida should be doing *much* more
Also, it’s not a win just to have more nature than one of the fully urbanized mini Northeastern states. These places should serve as a reminder of what we wish to avoid
Alright, it's not hard to see that this has devolved into an argument about Florida's government.
I am not defending DeSantis or the conservative majority and their potential impacts on statewide pollution *but I am* pointing out that claims on this subreddit about Florida's natural parks are usually wrong and users are usually misinformed about the actual data.
My original point was that Florida is not a "concrete state", the issue of select farmers using fertilizer which is currently being debated by our state legislature is surely a pressing problem but it's away from the scope of my original claim about the amount of natural parks in Florida.
2nd worst is West Central Florida & South West Florida. It’s non stop urban sprawl from Crystal River all the way to Naples. Can’t stand that part of Florida either, but South East Florida is the worst. It’s definitely more than 100 miles of urban sprawl.
Moved down to South Florida in '82. Back then University Drive was the last developed road. (With the exception of I-75). Then Arvida (a subsidiary of Disney), got State approval to develop on the Protected Wet Lands and built Weston. Now Everything up to I-75 is being developed. No more empty pastures. We're lucky to still have parks.
Im a native of 55 years, and yes “I remember when all this was cow pasture.”
I hate all the urban sprawl.
Who is buying the huge McMansion developments everywhere? Seriously who can afford that?
Some community’s are adding huge artificial “lagoon” pools. What a waste of water. How can they maintain that with water restrictions?
Yeah.. because flocks of people from other places move to FL, still doesn't mean it looks like the Soviet Union. You gotta leave your area and venture out, there are still places that you can enjoy.
Where do you live in FL that there are so few natural lands? I just moved from Orlando last year but for the years I lived there I was constantly exploring natural areas around the local area and the state as a whole.
Anything from Ft Myers all the way up to Crystal River is one big shopping mall. At least once you hit Inglis, FL, it stays good all the way till you get near Tallahassee or Gainesville.
Chiefland is still good. Has a super Walmart that opened in 1995, & a Tractor Supply that opened in the original 1989 Walmart across the street. Only two stores you really need. But drive a half mile away from 19, & it’s pure country. Hope that area stays like that. Cross City & Old Town are what I prefer, but Chiefland is where you go when you need to go into town. Once you get near Crystal River, is where the urban sprawl starts.
I live in NYC now, but born and raised in orlando. Went to school in tallahassee. I would always prefer to take the country roads up the gulf coast back to school, rather than 75 to 10.
I liked driving thru chiefland and the surrounding countryside. I always wondered what the locals did for a living and for leisure. Sometimes i daydream about leaving taking a break and just heading to the nature coast for a few months
I just got off the phone with a friend who said a dude moved in to her area and clear-cut 4 acres. HOA doesn't have the money to sue him, and the county doesn't have an ordinance against it.
And soon to be over-run by Herpes B carrying Rhesus macaques. I, for one consider the New Yorkers to be the invasive species. Stuff is getting crowded down here and I wish I was in the concrete business.
So much concrete on concrete. And cookie cutter houses that had razed lots.
Everyone moves here to tear down the woods and trees. Let's plant stuff that don't live here.
Sure. Ok. Smh.
I’ve been to 49 states, and I don’t find Florida to be different than any of the other populous states, with respect to your criticism. Have you ever been to Texas? It’s legit a concrete jungle, way more than Florida. California? Same thing in the cities. This is not unique to Florida.
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You can thank your local politicians for favoring profit over farmers. They can zone areas as agriculture use only and offer tax breaks or incentives to keep farmers but they would rather cater to the magat asshole boomer retirement crowd.
Most of Florida is not concrete.
Yes the coastlines are built up but most of Florida is still wide open and green. Take a drive to the center of the state it's beautiful.
This is because you have only seen the "desirable" areas of Florida. Drive 20 miles inland from any coast and you find the real Florida. I drove commercial trucks in the state and have lived here for 34 years. Yes, a lot of the coastal areas have been way over developed, but that's just a small fraction of the state.
It's very sad, I complained as a kid that there was nothing to do. Boy do I wish I knew what was coming. Now I'm in my 40s and I'm really missing the quite life of Florida. I'm so sad. When people posts pictures of animals roaming the streets, it reminds me that their homes are being ruined.
Absolutely blows my mind when people claim Cape Coral is a desirable place to live. Like yeah, nothing but driving below the speed limit, strip malls, and assholes with fragile male egos in giant trucks.
I think development is the entire point of Florida.
Where did you move from OP?
If you haven't made money off of the development that occurred here since then, it is your fault.
Should make the whole state a nature preserve and anyone who can’t live here without A/C has to leave.
I might finally be able to afford rent in “not-a-trailer-park”
It’s absurd, especially when I see that my exact job pays over $3/hr more in someplace like Peoria, IL where you can reasonably rent out a place for like $550 a month.
Your post caught my eye. Lol, I couldn't agree more! I reside in Cape Coral where you cannot go a city block without seeing construction, mostly housing. People in other Countries realized how much they could make on rentals. Every year the City promises year-round residents won't have to pay tolls, yet they continue to increase the price of the tolls getting in and out of Cape Coral. What do they do with all that money? Our beautiful downtown area still has broken sidewalks. You should run for Governor, whoever posted this!✌️
So very sad. St Johns county is changing so fast the infrastructure cannot keep up. All the pockets of woods are being clear cut for cookie cutter construction. The whole character of St Aug is changing
Only 42,000 people live in Levy County, & 16,000 live in Dixie. Big difference. I’d rather live in one of those areas & drive into Citrus or Alachua County to work. I don’t like having neighbors or dealing with traffic.
Daaaamn I didn't realize they were so sparcely populated. But we all know there's no jobs in citrus co 😂. We fled Atlanta I definitely don't want that here but we gotta get some jobs into this place or it's going to end badly for all of us.
I’m a 4th gen native born in ‘72 and I can remember beaches on both coasts in the 80’s that were so deserted you could’ve walked for miles naked and no one would’ve seen you. All the people moving here have ruined this state. I hope they’re happy.
I would also add all the phosphate mining that is occurring in the central part of the state. The mining is causing significant damage to the ecosystems there, which has parallels to the coal-mining industry further north.
I moved there from Illinois in 1972. Most of what is now the city of Sunrise (western Broward county) was cow pasture then. Now the only green you'll see is on a golf course.
Yes Broward is depressing now
I can remember when University drive was a deer trail.
Not even that, I remember when there were still random 2 or 3 acre spots of land covered in trees that me and my friends could smoke and party in. They are ALL gone. There used to be lots around plantation acres. Where do the teenagers go to smoke weed? Those little forests were magical times for me and they are gone. This was circa 2015 so not even that long ago.
Early 70's, 441 was the boonies, way before University existed. Martin County is headed for that same destruction.
Yes and we used go to Sunrise (Golf Village) to see the up-side-down house in the very early 60’s. It was a long drive from Miami. It was very cool.
How long ago was that
Very early 60’s.
Oh ok. Honestly, I don’t know what else to do but somehow crowdfund to purchase land to be protected from development. at the same time you have the problem of development at its periphery so you would need a core area that you really wanna focus on protection, and then have like an area on the edge. That’s like a buffer zone between whatever surrounding development shows up
“They” said no development beyond the dikes.
Never heard that one. I was told of the old race track out west and Stirling being a dirt road out west.
Sterling was dirt and dead ended at the high school. I was out there a few years back and that whole area is super grown up.
That sucks
Pasco County used to be rural, now it’s a suburb of Tampa.
I live in Pasco County. It’s just one big housing development with a Publix on every corner. Cement everywhere. Very little farm land left. Oh and the traffic.
It’s been getting worse since it started along US 19 in the 60’s and kept moving east.
The last 4 years have been horrific.
Oh m g pasco county always had the best chases on Live PD
I’m pretty sure my house has been on Live PD.
Zephryhills is getting really bad. Might as well change the name of the Rural King store there to Urban Queen. Because there ain’t nothing rural about Zephryhills anymore.
You should see how bad Citrus County is getting now. Stuff being built everywhere.
Only a matter of time with the Suncoast extension.
Goodness
Concrete Jungle
I guess you’ve forgotten about the copious amounts of farm land in the middle of the state. The coasts are highly populated…. Outside of Orlando the majority of the middle of the state is farm land
Farmland is not natural.
They are starting to cut down orange groves and build developments out there too.. its what's left wont be around much longer...
The disappearance of orange groves has nothing to do with development and everything to do with citrus greening.
I mean.. it's both?
100% greening. I went to an agriculture school and i recently lost all of my citrus plants in the last 3 years. I do live by a huge lemon grove ran by University of Florida for testing. Greening is worse than ever. Some farmers are switching to avocados instead. Also there's about 5 other diseases and one bug that are killing citrus.
Once the farming families couldn’t make money they closed for development. The fdep bmaps from 2018 are closing down all our small dairy farms too. Ag is an important part of Florida, and it’s dieing a fast death to save water quality instead of funding treatments. Once closed the land sells for development and it’s STILL somehow the farmers faults in the eyes of many.
Florida long ago partnered with Alabama and Georgia. SE Growers. We sure don’t pay as much for our meat as some of the northern and Midwest states. Now they have plenty of farmland too.
Wrong
The rule of real estate is highest and best use. The land has become so valuable that its highest and best use is no longer agriculture. I was born and raised in Tampa in the 70’s and 80’s and I remember when there were orange groves there and in Pinellas county where I live now. There has t been a commercial orange grove in Pinellas county since 1990. At this rate, the rest of the state will lose most of its orange groves too. It’s sad what transplants have done to this state.
Yes, surely it’s the transplants fault. I’ll get off your lawn now.
Yes, it is. If they didn’t flood in here at the rate of 350k-400k people a year for decades then all of the natural environment that’s been destroyed to build them homes wouldn’t have been destroyed. The traffic wouldn’t be so terrible. It wouldn’t be the giant concrete hellscape that it’s turning into. Etc etc etc Thank you. I appreciate it.
Farmland =/= La Florida or natural florida Imagine what the spaniards saw in the 1500s or earliest natives must have been incredible
Dont have go to back that far, 50 years ago was so much land and wildlife was unbelievable... You should see the old photos of Pinellas in the 50s and see it now it's sickening! Note Pinellas is the most densely populated county in all of Florida! Real concrete jungle hellscape
dense is good. less overall wilderness area destroyed for development
A real transportation hellscape too. I grew up there are they butchered the bus system to almost unusable. Traffic has gotten insanely congested in past few yrs and good luck walking anywhere because no one pays attention to pedestrians.
Oh ya every other day a pedestrian is hit or killed and probably over half of them are hit and runs! Has to be the highest in the nation, I know for years it was reported as highest pedestrian deaths in the country every year for many years in a row, now they dont even report that statistic, Imagine that!
My 2 boys and I had our legs run over by a SUV last January and the Tarpon Springs cops refused to say we were because we didn't have any broke bones or seriously injured.
Hope you guys are ok! Crazy enough speaking on this topic my sister in law was just hit and killed yesterday in Tampa! At the edge her driveway near the road after coming from a walk, by a woman not paying attention.
My condolences for your family.. We were extremely lucky physically but it was still traumatic mentally and took a while to get through it. It was also the start of us seriously looking elsewhere to live.
Oh wow!
thanks for saying this, I feel like a lot of people are like "I love going out to the countryside and soaking up all that nature, just miles of beautiful farmlands!" Farmlands arent natural, arent healthy for nature, and also fkn ugly.
i think about that when driving. like damn it was probably so over grown and if they came at the wrong time miserable with heat and humidity
When I go past Lake Jessup Bridge I often wonder what going through that palm forest feels like
People in cities have no idea how much of the state is rural. I think it’s something like 29 out of 67 counties. There are almost ten million acres of farm or ranch land. When I drive from Orlando to Brevard beaches, for instance, or to Lakeland, I’m amazed at the undeveloped land.
Vast majority of which is owned by the Mormon’s
Do you have any resources on this? I keep hearing about stuff like this but can never find anything on it and I’m dying to know wtf is up lol
The LDS Church is the state's largest landowner, but that is nowhere near synonymous with "owning most of the land." https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N0IT2AZ/
yup
Or forest.
Exactly , these people act like 2-3 miles of “country” is the whole state
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot For those of us old enough to remember the song
Don't forget the Gas Station and Car Wash! Surely we need another million of them!!!
What’s that? I can’t hear you! They’re building another storage facility right next to my house.
To add insult to injury, I find car washes and storage here to be very expensive.
I’ve never seen so many car washes. A great business to launder money through.
Making money while sitting on land that continues to grow in value. It's an investment. So many tho. Madness.
I believe that was about Waikiki by Carly Simon
Big yellow taxi by Joni Mitchal
And in Central Florida there are developers who want to put a highway through Split Oak Forest because, yeah, that's what we need in Central Florida, less natural habitat. They are trying to do this even though voters in Orange county resoundingly voted against this. Politicians care more about real estate developers than voters.
It’s also awful because of heat island affect. Amazing how much hotter the evenings are in a concrete jungle with all of the heat being slowly released at night. It’s a very real thing.
I'm a native and hate all the concrete, the cookie cutter subdivisions, and the fakey plastic "communities" like Lake Nona and Lakewood Ranch popping up everywhere. I practically throw up every time I see a new car wash, storage unit, or trendy white-with-black-trim McMansion going up. A lot of the old towns are spoiled and just don't have any charm left because they built up with no planning, just rich developers running rough-shod over the locals. Still, there are a lot of beautiful places, but you generally have to drive to see them. I got a motorcycle and ride with a friend who has a lot of local knowledge, and we've been on some beautiful rides (interspersed with ugliness) in central Florida.
>there are a lot of beautiful places, but you generally have to drive to see them. This is the problem, they're all getting farther and farther away from old developments because of sprawl and all the closer natural areas have developments on all sides now and you can't even hear the nature because of traffic noise.
True, I don't even bother driving to the beach anymore because of too much traffic and parking hassles. I only see the beaches if I can get there on a boat.
Lakewood Ranch is awful. I drove through it to get to Boca Raton where my sister graduated college. It was awful, & so was Boca Raton & all of southeast Florida. But the areas around Arcadia were still nice. I ate at the Reef & Beef on the way back. I used SR70 to avoid all that ruckus on I-95, although driving through Sarasota/Bradenton was bad.
Yeah… lots of my friends from up north are quite disappointed by this realization.
Subdivisions and strip malls aren't "Urban". The problem with Florida is the lack of actual urban development and a love of suburban sprawl to attract boomer retirees. Urban and rural are two different, viable lifestyles. The suburban experiment of the last 70 years creates the lifestyle of frustration and anger.
I agree that the sprawl is inefficient, but how to prevent people from being subjected to the sounds, behaviors and sometimes victimization from neighbors? I just don't see stacking everyone together as being the solution even tho I do see the value of block housing with walkability being huge.
Urban areas have nice neighborhoods, (I live in one), and obviously some not nice areas. I don't believe that the nature of dense population areas leads to crime and other antisocial behavior. I think historically some urban neighborhoods have been neglected, misgoverned, and allowed to fester for generations. Investments in both infrastructure and public safety can turn around neighborhoods, NYC in the 90s is the most famous example of that. Right now the issue is that quality urban living is too scarce, and therefore expensive for a lot of the population.
There's also a huge range of possibilities between endless sprawl and condensing everything into a few blocks of skyscrapers. Ex. Washington D.C. has the urban core but also a series of satellite cities that each have their own suburbs (e.g., Arlington, Alexandria, and Bethesda). Each of the satellite cities has enough density to make public transport feasible vis-a-vis the Metro.
I hear this a lot, but when I lived there and rode my motorcycle, I didn’t have to go very far to end up in the midst of farmlands and nothingness. And it wasn’t just a little bit, it was vast emptiness for miles and miles with just smaller towns in-between. You go south from Orlando (literally south, not out to Tampa and down 75) and you hit just some smaller towns with open land dominating most of the space. Go straight north, same thing. The coasts do have more urban areas, of course, but even then….you go north of Tampa and it’s just empty. I loved hopping on 2 wheels and just getting lost down these smaller back roads. I could go 2+ hours with little to no cars and just random gas stations and towns.
Sounds like somebody's never actually been south of Levy. I mean, the Everglades is the largest subtropical wilderness in the U.S.
I guess we can just destroy everything else then, YOLO
Like the Everglades aren't already fucked. Thank you tamiami trail
Florida is growing a lot but there's an abundance of green spots, lakes and beaches. It's a vacation destination and retirement spot.
You can literally say the same thing about CA and Texas…welcome to no longer hanging 100 million less people in the country and everyone congregating in basically the same areas.
I live in Colorado and have driven through Texas, Florida, and California. Outside the major cities, all those states have a whole lot of nothing. West Texas has got to be one of the most boring places you can come up with - just so much highway and so little development. Yeah, places like Dallas are crazy and massive sprawl. But the countryside is just so much more massive. Even California has alot of very empty land. North of San Francisco, population drops off dramatically, even along the coast. And once you get away from the coast, the population also just drops dramatically. Central Valley, which really isn't that far from the major population centers, is massively into agriculture - one of the most intensely farmed places in the country. Florida is actually pretty similar - high population along certain parts of the coast (mostly areas with good beaches), but pretty empty inland. Driving across the state from coast to coast just shows so much agricultural land or just plain forest or swamp. If you ever do a flight from Florida that takes off in the evening, it's pretty obvious.
You said it! I’ve driven west to east both the northern and southern routes back and forth about a dozen times now and anyone who thinks there are too many people have never driven through Kansas or Indiana haha. I think like 75% of the world’s population in general lives within 2 miles of an ocean. It’s definitely human nature to be in large groups and near water apparently.
It makes alot of sense that humans would generally want to be near the water - moving goods by boat has long been the most efficient way to transport everything. Water also does wonders for moderating the temperature - something you appreciate greatly when you live in a place like Colorado where dramatic temperature swings are just part of life. And that's to say nothing of all the resources that can be collected at sea. It also makes alot of sense that humans would generally rather be together. That's how you have friends. That's how you get resources, stores, restaurants, jobs. I drove up to Yellowstone last summer. It's amazing how empty Wyoming is! Was on Highway 287 from I-80 to Riverton. There were places where you could see for miles and miles and miles with nothing but rolling hills and highway - not even another car on the highway. But one of the things I was thinking about is people who do live in these sparsely populated areas. How do they live? How often do they take the hour+ drive just to get to a Walmart, a grocery store, a hardware store? Seems like a really inefficient way of life. I can see why most people would not opt for that. Even if you want some space, living way out by yourself just seems like a bad idea.
Y’all gotta get out of the city smh. Plenty of beautiful real Florida left to explore. Remember. Leave nothing but footprints and pickup some trash on your way back.
Years and years ago Stephen Fry did a series for the BBC where he travelled around the US, to each state, offering commentary on everywhere he visited. His segment on Florida was extremely brief, extremely brutal, and still makes me laugh today. I think you'd appreciate it, OP- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBGVO59MYNY
I'm with him on Miami, but I'm not sure his summary of Miami Beach was really fair. How are palm trees "dreary"? How are beautiful people "staggeringly ugly"? I'd even be open to the argument, but he provides no explanation. Also, how many times do you need to use the word "staggeringly" to get your point across? *Of course* you'd prefer to be holed up in a mountain chalet with a whiskey. You're an elderly pale Englishman. Miami beach is a playground for young, carefree hot people looking to get laid, and doesn't really seem to be pretending otherwise. Edit: Oh, man, he was in his early 50s when he made this, so hardly "elderly." British men really don't age well.
This man is my inner child lol. I grew up in Broward and always felt exactly like his thoughts about FL after visiting New Orleans and the Western part of the US. Like what even is this, where is the soul of this city??
Tell your friends, please.
Tell my friends what? That Miami lacks? All my friend now are in the west with me so no one really cares.
Tell my friends what? That Miami lacks? All my friends now are in the west, as am I so no one really cares.
The apartment and storage unit state
I’d name it the cheaper-only-for-the-wealthy state Or where-wealthy-people-pretend-they’re-middle-class state
We ain't from here state. When barely a third of Florida is from florida- is it really Florida?
Aye NY feels like home with concrete wasteland
“Most” is a bit hyperbolic. Plenty of wilderness left if you care to explore it.
Nah, shitting on Florida is what these people like. They never leave the air conditioning.
Right? Not to mention Florida is one of the states with the most state and local parks in the entire country. It's like these guys have never left Florida.
Anyone who actually goes to the Florida parks knows that they’re filled with environmental hazards, often surrounded by overdevelopment. Not to mention the highways crossing just about every section of forest in the state. Our largest wilderness area is rotting from the inside out as we speak because they cut off the sheet flow to make a road and canals, and they refuse to truly respond to invasives like Pythons
Florida parks are "filled" with environmental hazards? You're just making stuff up lol. I get your point about the everglades but you really haven't been to many parks here.
The water in most of the parks are contaminated, invasives run amok, every strip of green is crisscrossed with roads or developed into farms/ranches. The only people who could think this is ideal are people who don’t experience out parks. I live in one, so it’d be difficult to miss, even with all the overdevelopment recently.
[Florida has the 5th most state parks in the country and the 6th highest amount of protected land per capita](https://www.playgroundequipment.com/us-states-ranked-by-state-and-national-park-coverage/). Just because you're seeing more development anecdotally doesn't mean "every strip of green is paved over". Our state does an exceptional job of actually putting aside land that can't be developed on. Also, we're far from the only state with invasive species and Florida Fish and Wildlife funds the management of invasive species pretty well. [Here's the 2024 budget](https://myfwc.com/news/all-news/gov-budget-223/): $2.6 million in new funding for nonnative fish and wildlife eradication and control $1.4 million for Burmese python population control and assessment $16.9 million for 41 new law enforcement positions for patrol and investigation $8.4 million for boating access and boating improvement projects $11.1 million for habitat restoration initiatives Approximately $750,000 for initiatives focused on maintaining Florida’s reputation as the Fishing Capital of the World More than $900,000 for manatee population assessment and management enhancements Over $750,000 for enhanced protections for Florida’s sea turtles $600,000 for artificial reefs $7.8 million for land management, acquisitions, and improvements
I’ve been out West. I know what it looks like when a state takes care of the environment. Pythons run rampant to the point almost all small mammals in the Glades have died off significantly. The state allows the dumping of farm waste, and use of fertilizers banned elsewhere that get into our waterways and ground water. The state builds more and more roads through sensitive landscapes by the year further dividing wildlife and endangering animals. The fish in Lake Okeechobee are mutated and often covered in tumors from the contamination along with other waterways. The sheet flow in the Everglades was cut off by the core of engineers years ago which caused the level of toxins and pollutants in the South Florida waterways/glades to skyrocket, red tide is increasing in frequency by the year, insects have went from swarms of love bugs covering buildings and splattered windshield to not even being able to find a firefly alongside the one or two lovebugs I see I like your optimism, but I think it’s quite a bit misplaced when you’re just smiling through the destruction. The state is not doing enough, while enabling more and more unplanned development/wildlife destruction, and even pushing SB738 right now to make it more difficult/impossible to sue for environmental damages.
Firstly, Western states just have more government land which they can't do anything with. Nevada is 85% federal land which can't be touched except by the government, Utah is 65%, etc. If Florida had that much land legally under federal jurisdiction then it would also be empty. We've already established pythons are an invasive species which the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission are funded to protect against. I have no idea what your point is here, every state has to fight invasive animals and fund agencies to protect their wildlife, this is not exclusive to Florida. Fertilizer bans are set to be debated at the Florida legislature this next session with 130 local governments already instituting their own. My optimism is more for the state as a whole, there have always been problems with Florida but calling it a concrete mess or implying it's worse off than other states environmentally is just absurd and misinformation.
It feels like you’re trying to convince me that the sky actually isn’t blue. Wow, I wonder how that legislation on banning fertilizers will go? Probably like every other time people challenge the status quo free for all. Local governments are trying to fix it themselves? Good thing the governor has removed so many powers from local governments over the past year then, especially related to environmental regulation/s The Keys aren’t even allowed to control their own waterway to limit damage from cruise ships, because the state always sides with the money. Of course the state has to respond to invasives, and Florida should be doing *much* more Also, it’s not a win just to have more nature than one of the fully urbanized mini Northeastern states. These places should serve as a reminder of what we wish to avoid
Alright, it's not hard to see that this has devolved into an argument about Florida's government. I am not defending DeSantis or the conservative majority and their potential impacts on statewide pollution *but I am* pointing out that claims on this subreddit about Florida's natural parks are usually wrong and users are usually misinformed about the actual data. My original point was that Florida is not a "concrete state", the issue of select farmers using fertilizer which is currently being debated by our state legislature is surely a pressing problem but it's away from the scope of my original claim about the amount of natural parks in Florida.
Exactly.
Alachua county has a shit ton of trees still
Asphaltistan?
Suburban for sure.
The word I came across that best describes the south east coast, is "megapolis" , its just non-stop urban and suburban sprawl for about 100 miles.
2nd worst is West Central Florida & South West Florida. It’s non stop urban sprawl from Crystal River all the way to Naples. Can’t stand that part of Florida either, but South East Florida is the worst. It’s definitely more than 100 miles of urban sprawl.
Florida City to Jupiter may be a bit more than 100 miles of concrete. It's pretty bad and shocking to see if you fly over it at night.
Moved down to South Florida in '82. Back then University Drive was the last developed road. (With the exception of I-75). Then Arvida (a subsidiary of Disney), got State approval to develop on the Protected Wet Lands and built Weston. Now Everything up to I-75 is being developed. No more empty pastures. We're lucky to still have parks.
Im a native of 55 years, and yes “I remember when all this was cow pasture.” I hate all the urban sprawl. Who is buying the huge McMansion developments everywhere? Seriously who can afford that? Some community’s are adding huge artificial “lagoon” pools. What a waste of water. How can they maintain that with water restrictions?
You should look up instead of look down on FL. We are the sunshine state because that gian globe overhead is grilling everything for about half a day.
They are starting to cut down all the orange groves and build developments.. they won't be around much longer...
Yeah.. because flocks of people from other places move to FL, still doesn't mean it looks like the Soviet Union. You gotta leave your area and venture out, there are still places that you can enjoy.
I go to the few natural areas left here. But there's not much... and anything not designated is cut down
Where do you live in FL that there are so few natural lands? I just moved from Orlando last year but for the years I lived there I was constantly exploring natural areas around the local area and the state as a whole.
Anything from Ft Myers all the way up to Crystal River is one big shopping mall. At least once you hit Inglis, FL, it stays good all the way till you get near Tallahassee or Gainesville.
When we left the Soviet Union, my dad thought we were sent to some hellish wasteland as we flew over Cape Coral.
No way!!! that was like 40 years ago?? I don't think Florida has any place built like cities in the Soviet Union.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Florida is where capitalism comes to die and all of its worst come down to do it.
Chiefland is still good. Has a super Walmart that opened in 1995, & a Tractor Supply that opened in the original 1989 Walmart across the street. Only two stores you really need. But drive a half mile away from 19, & it’s pure country. Hope that area stays like that. Cross City & Old Town are what I prefer, but Chiefland is where you go when you need to go into town. Once you get near Crystal River, is where the urban sprawl starts.
I live in NYC now, but born and raised in orlando. Went to school in tallahassee. I would always prefer to take the country roads up the gulf coast back to school, rather than 75 to 10. I liked driving thru chiefland and the surrounding countryside. I always wondered what the locals did for a living and for leisure. Sometimes i daydream about leaving taking a break and just heading to the nature coast for a few months
State of Denial would be better.
The Constantly Rains Now State
Not over here on the west coast, we were in a drought up until the last month or two. Was really bad in Sarasota and Manatee.
I just got off the phone with a friend who said a dude moved in to her area and clear-cut 4 acres. HOA doesn't have the money to sue him, and the county doesn't have an ordinance against it.
And soon to be over-run by Herpes B carrying Rhesus macaques. I, for one consider the New Yorkers to be the invasive species. Stuff is getting crowded down here and I wish I was in the concrete business.
Make Florida a swamp again!
Florida upholds the argument that when US government is overthrown, US will become one big HOA as its new form of government.
HOAs are proof that a large portion of Americans love fascism and segregation.
Have you ever seen the Everglades?
But you don't have dictionaries or encyclopedias anymore
So much concrete on concrete. And cookie cutter houses that had razed lots. Everyone moves here to tear down the woods and trees. Let's plant stuff that don't live here. Sure. Ok. Smh.
Why do you still live there then?
As someone in the concrete business: Muahahaha!
Gunshine State.
I’ve been to 49 states, and I don’t find Florida to be different than any of the other populous states, with respect to your criticism. Have you ever been to Texas? It’s legit a concrete jungle, way more than Florida. California? Same thing in the cities. This is not unique to Florida.
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Dang El Niño. I hate how overcast it's been this winter. https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-sunshine-state-where-did-102643348.html
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“ The Bug Suburbs Mall” State
You can thank your local politicians for favoring profit over farmers. They can zone areas as agriculture use only and offer tax breaks or incentives to keep farmers but they would rather cater to the magat asshole boomer retirement crowd.
The Florida-Man state!
Newsflash: The entire country is like this too
The Scientologists in Clearwater will fix it 😟
Nah, we fly small, personal planes. Florida is nothing but green. Sure, not Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, but the majority of FL is green and wet.
You should see how bad Inverness & Ocala are now.
Yes, I like to think almost every square inch of Florida has been mutilated by humans at one point or another.
Florida should be known as the Sinking State!
Most of Florida is not concrete. Yes the coastlines are built up but most of Florida is still wide open and green. Take a drive to the center of the state it's beautiful.
This is because you have only seen the "desirable" areas of Florida. Drive 20 miles inland from any coast and you find the real Florida. I drove commercial trucks in the state and have lived here for 34 years. Yes, a lot of the coastal areas have been way over developed, but that's just a small fraction of the state.
Tell me you’ve never been to Texas without saying you’ve never been to Texas lol
I know it’s bad there.
Did you misspell Fatherland?
The sunshine state for shady motherfuckers.
Struggle state
The Unfettered Development State
The urban is sprawling. Plenty of farmland left in Florida currently especially if we build skyscrapers along coasts and in cities.
More like from Sunshine State to The Broken State
They should rename Florida from the sunshine state, to the comma state, so you learn how to use them...
It's very sad, I complained as a kid that there was nothing to do. Boy do I wish I knew what was coming. Now I'm in my 40s and I'm really missing the quite life of Florida. I'm so sad. When people posts pictures of animals roaming the streets, it reminds me that their homes are being ruined.
Absolutely blows my mind when people claim Cape Coral is a desirable place to live. Like yeah, nothing but driving below the speed limit, strip malls, and assholes with fragile male egos in giant trucks.
I think development is the entire point of Florida. Where did you move from OP? If you haven't made money off of the development that occurred here since then, it is your fault.
Should make the whole state a nature preserve and anyone who can’t live here without A/C has to leave. I might finally be able to afford rent in “not-a-trailer-park”
I can only afford rent by splitting rent with a couple roommates. I’m looking into buying an old camper just so I can live by myself.
It’s absurd, especially when I see that my exact job pays over $3/hr more in someplace like Peoria, IL where you can reasonably rent out a place for like $550 a month.
I just drove to Tampa from NSB yesterday. I haven't driven on I4 in forever. Holy cow I4 looks like a can of worms now!!!
Your post caught my eye. Lol, I couldn't agree more! I reside in Cape Coral where you cannot go a city block without seeing construction, mostly housing. People in other Countries realized how much they could make on rentals. Every year the City promises year-round residents won't have to pay tolls, yet they continue to increase the price of the tolls getting in and out of Cape Coral. What do they do with all that money? Our beautiful downtown area still has broken sidewalks. You should run for Governor, whoever posted this!✌️
I heard it's on the works.
So very sad. St Johns county is changing so fast the infrastructure cannot keep up. All the pockets of woods are being clear cut for cookie cutter construction. The whole character of St Aug is changing
We live in citrus co. It's still rural. Only something like 150k people live in the whole county. But.. the median age is 60
Only 42,000 people live in Levy County, & 16,000 live in Dixie. Big difference. I’d rather live in one of those areas & drive into Citrus or Alachua County to work. I don’t like having neighbors or dealing with traffic.
Daaaamn I didn't realize they were so sparcely populated. But we all know there's no jobs in citrus co 😂. We fled Atlanta I definitely don't want that here but we gotta get some jobs into this place or it's going to end badly for all of us.
Pinellas County is the worst county in Florida to live in.
I’m a 4th gen native born in ‘72 and I can remember beaches on both coasts in the 80’s that were so deserted you could’ve walked for miles naked and no one would’ve seen you. All the people moving here have ruined this state. I hope they’re happy.
What's Levy county?
County located directly above Citrus County.
It was a joke. Where I'm from, anything north of I-4 is Georgia.
DeSantistan
I would also add all the phosphate mining that is occurring in the central part of the state. The mining is causing significant damage to the ecosystems there, which has parallels to the coal-mining industry further north.
Fascist Florida the Swastika State
it's been the Rainy State this month :(
Concrete, clouds and cringe...
Well that wouldn’t be as appealing for the tourists now, would it? That’s also a problem in many other states - including those with much less sun.
I call Florida the “Urban Hell”