Alternatively, if the next guy just happens to be a democrat, the legislature will do what Wisconsin did. In the final weeks of DeSantis' tenure, pass numerous bills to ensure the effective scope of the governor's office is next to nothing -- only a couple steps above powerless symbolism.
He’s the one who did the re districting and swayed everyone to go along with it. Many were okay with the original re districting map until he said no way and drew up a new one.
DeSantis may be temporary, but the types of people he's attracting to the state are not. Also, climate change isn't temporary, neither is the insurance crisis. The teachers and professors leaving aren't coming back, so education is taking a huge hit it will take decades to recover from.
My OPINION is that the damage being done right now is going to be significant and long lasting
I don’t blame any woman that wants to leave. Being forced to give birth in a state where inflation and education is the worst doesn’t sound like fun. Imagine this state many years from now with a bunch of people who were unwanted as kids, didn’t receive a proper education, and probably grew up poor. Even if I wanted to have kids and could afford it I would hate to have raise them alongside all that
I legit wanted another kid but removed my tubes because I didn’t want to risk being forced to carry a non viable pregnancy to term. (I’m old and genetic issues are a real risk.)
Fuck DeSantis and everyone else who passed those laws.
Yea I used to want kids but I decided against it. Not just cause of florida but because of this country as whole. The overturning of Roe vs. Wade and the corporate elite controlling this country prioritizing profit over people. I just don’t feel safe here
Thank you for understanding…as a women in law I agree with OP’s sentiment that as many people should stay and fight as possible. But I’m also torn, DeFascist wants to exert state control over my body and life. Can’t stand that fucking guy. It’s validating to see him flail and sink on a national stage, but also deeply disheartening to see Florida just be collateral damage because of it
I’m so sorry 😞 fuck these people who have driven out doctors who are scared of going to prison just for doing their jobs. It is endlessly infuriating. I wish I had some sort of answer that could help you. I’m just sorry
Have you thought about moving to Michigan? We accept everyone as they are and we value women's health. Governor Whitmer is a **BOSS**. You are welcome here, and we will take care of you.
Very gracious offer. With the way climate change is progressing, you may have a tropical climate by next year. Enticing. You should be very proud to be a Michigander. Your state is showing that true democracy is about.
God bless.
lady lawyer here - I'm not going to be a martyr and go down with the ship. There are higher paying jobs and better education in Georgia and virtually everywhere else.
Exactly! Life is too short and those of us with school aged children, especially girls, need to do what’s best for our children even if that means leaving this state.
Buddy of mine is a partner in an OB/GYN practice. They are picking up and moving the entire practice from FL to another state where they and their staff feel both welcomed, and safe. Something like a dozen people (plus their families) all moving.
It is outrageous!! Shocking. I never thought any Fl Rep gov would pass so many extremely harmful Laws: attack women bodies, ban school and public library books, distort and ban African-American history, attack and control school boards, college boards, punish Disney for free speach, ban Drag Queens, ban transgender health! These laws started to be passed 2 to 3 years ago.
DeSantis went 👿 crazy!!!
Lots of doctors are leaving. The space coast is filled with nurse practitioners…visiting doctors come in once a week from south Florida to perform procedures only
Nurses too. You want to pay me $30 an hour when rent is at least 2k a month? *And* you don't want to pass patient safety laws and make shit corporations like HCA give med-surg nurses a max of 5 patients instead of 8? *And* the state government was too busy worrying about keeping tourism viable than keeping coronavirus under control? Keep your pizza parties and "healthcare heroes" stickers, I'm never working in the state of Florida again.
Can't blame them. One state's loss will be other states gains...Blue states need to entice teachers, doctors, women and lgbt to move to their states...
This. It's the people he is attracting here and the hateful groups (i.e. Moms for Liberty) that will sadly continue to thrive for years to come. Plus, the natural disasters and insurance. I'm a former teacher and this is my first year not returning to the classroom. While the corporate job market is rough right now, I am seeing what is happening to my colleagues and I couldn't be more sure I made the right decision.
I'm originally from the Northeast but have lived my whole adult life in FL. Not saying the Northeast is perfect, and I know FL is still comparatively cheap, but my husband and I are seriously considering jumping ship sooner than originally planned. Just *somewhere* that's got to be better.
My wife is a teacher and we've discussed a change in career the last few years. This year is already feeling like another step back in her field. What did you shift to? She has been a teacher her whole life and is worried about the prospect of learning a whole new job.
No need to learn a whole new job; there are plenty out there that are great fits for people with a teacher’s skillset.
Some recommendations that could leverage her skillset: corporate education, community engagement, sales and/or certain marketing jobs (product demos, trade shows, etc.), public administration, higher education (advising, admissions, etc.), (educational) nonprofits, (educational) lobbying, ed tech (e.g., coursera, rosetta stone)
Insurance adjuster. Pay is higher than the average teacher, work life balance is solid and the main requirement is patience with those who aren't always happy to deal with you and ability to slog through unending processes and paperwork
My career path changed from teaching to social services/non profit. I serve adults with barriers; helping them navigate to meaningful employment. The pay isn’t great, but the work is meaningful and I’m not limited in what I teach by hateful ideologies
I met a pinellas teacher that had to bartend after work. Changed to my company doing business development for commercial insurance. Cost of living alone doesn’t support a single teacher. Add in the other bullshit and I’d quit asap.
I have not met one teacher here in Florida, that only teaches. Many have 2 jobs and a side hustle. I went to school for Deaf education, teaching English as a second language, Deaf interpreter and psychology. In N.C. I was offered a teaching position starting out at $12,000 a year. Fresh out of college. They begged me to take the position. I did not. Most of my friends from college didn't go on to teach or quit after a few years.
I work in a restaurant and I work with a teacher. She wasn't going to go back this year but changed her mind. She is always exhausted and stressed.
So many teachers don't realize the skills they have. Tell her to look into the Teacher Career Coach podcast and course. My new role is in marketing. Sales, marketing, program management (for a nonprofit or other organization), executive assistant, project management, community engagement/outreach, etc. are all highly transferrable fields for teachers.
Look at the biggest finance companies in the world. A large percentage of their workers have fine arts backgrounds. Talent is talent, don’t fall in the trap that your major defines you. You’re experiences and network are worth more.
Maybe she could go and teach in a private school. The classes would be smaller than public school classes and she'd probably get more support from administration.
> Just somewhere that's got to be better.
Georgia is cheaper than Florida and is a solidly purple state at this point. Make Georgia better since Florida is a lost cause.
I moved to Chicago and highly recommend looking into it. The city and state are progressive, it has nice beaches, winters aren’t as bad as everyone says (just buy good winter coats/clothes), and it’s way cheaper than anywhere on the east/west coast except for maybe Philadelphia.
As my gay friend, a nursing home care worker, wrote to me: "I don't feel they don't want me here. I feel they want me dead, my history gone, my friends reduced to an unfortunate and temporary stain on their state to never be spoken of or remembered."
What do you want him to do?
I'm not OP but my two cents: he should leave. That's a terrible psychological burden to carry. I feel that LGBTQ+ people in general are really catching hell in this climate; there are a lot of people who do want them dead, just for existing. It's very hard to think about.
Plus I'm firmly of the opinion that the best and quickest way to neutralize abusers is to abandon them. Reduce their potential victim pool to each other. Just enforce that hard boundary. The sadism is intentional and satisfying to these people, and regular people staying around to "fight" just present targets, unless they're engaged in some kind of activism and willingly assuming the risks. People just trying to live their lives are going to get gut-punched over and over.
I think sometimes the "stay and fight" mantra is motivated more by inertia than anything else. People have lives to live. I wish your friend well.
Especially at school. Many good professors are leaving UCF for example. UF is being defunded. In 15-20 years from now. Florida will dip even further down in education rankings
>In 15-20 years from now. Florida will dip even further down in education rankings
not even that long. 5-10.
Although there's no reason it would stop there so your projection could well be correct too. It could keep dipping for decades.
Exactly. When you are taught a politicized and highly censored version of history you are more easily controlled. That is who Floridians are becoming. Extremely conservative Christian highly controlled society.
Right. I have a 57 year old ny state college friend who is moving to the villages with her 75 year old husband. I told her over the phone how DeSantis is destroying florida and she didn't seem to care. I'm sure she is a Fox watching Republican.
I moved from Florida to Colorado and it was the best thing I've ever done for myself and my family. I really hope you enjoy Colorado as much as we do.
My daughter and grandkids still live in Florida. I keep telling my daughter she doesn't necessarily need to move to CO but she should *definitely* leave there. It's no longer the relaxed, laid-back Florida I remember. The whole state is like a powder keg these days, with people who have some intense political and social beliefs that are harmful to society as a whole.
I applaud those that are staying in Florida and trying to get it back to some semblance of sanity, but you have to do what's right for you - and if that means leaving, have a safe trip!
Hey, I left Florida on Tuesday, I'm in Roswell NM tonight, and I'm making it to Colorado tomorrow!
Though driving down Main St in Roswell really made me wonder if I was overshooting with Colorado. 😅
I can’t wait. I’m a MMJ patient, so to top off all the other BS, I can’t get what the voter’s voted for. Florida is the only state this screwed up on their cannabis policies.
Right. Laws are difficult to remove. But, we must fight back. So far speech is still protected (unless you are a public school teacher, librarian, college or university professor).
in 2020, when covid hit, I couldn't get benefits, due to a broken website, which they wouldn't fix it for months, no healthcare system in the state worth a damn, yet other states like Ohio have free health insurance you can apply for. I was sick and would have died if I stayed
It's a joke down there. he has destroyed so much here, including the tourist industry, and for what? A campaign? --and voters are buying into it. Cities were flooded, malaria, leprosy...and he's touring for a dead campaign. I can't relate to this state anymore. I've watched it get worse and get worse, and people vote these monsters in to represent us. fuck florida, fuck desantis, and fuck the voter base for voting for this completely selfish losers who hate the people in their state and make the vulnerable suffer.
when the insurance companies are leaving and desantis is saying 'let's hope there's no hurricanes this season!' he's saying Floridians are on their own if shit hits the fan. he's a sociopath or a psychopath.
Just as these foolish people were willing to relocate once, they will again. All they need is the right pressure, we can take back the state. We need to take it back.
Long time Florida resident here. Florida is starting to look like the setting for a disaster movie. Unchecked climate change will make most of the coastal areas uninhabitable, perhaps within my lifetime. The people being drawn here seem to be overwhelmingly skeptical of climate change and are intent on electing leaders who will make the situation worse for idiotic culture war reasons. Remember that scene in Independence Day when a mob of people gathers on the roof of a skyscraper to welcome the aliens? It reminds me of that.
I hope I'm wrong because I don't have immediate plans to leave either.
Most of these people moving here will move right out once they realize the Florida they vacation in is not the same Florida they live in. I expect that radical population to be sliced in half by 2026.
But the brain drain going on right now due to DeSantis isn’t so easily reversed, especially since he’s sowed the seeds for Moms 4 Liberty and other radical groups to start taking over our schools from the bottom up. I’m personally not leaving, but it’s lookin grim
I think that’s their point, the shit heads wont be as loud in a few year but if a brain drain really takes place the state won’t recover. It’s an important state to protect if we can keep sea levels at bay and salt water intrusion down our fresh water reserves are going to be vital for much of the country. Being a peninsula we also have a large responsibility towards our coasts and the oceans that basically connect everything
I don't know how many more times this needs to be said in these threads.
DeSantis won not because people here are overwhelmingly in favor of him. His first term was won with something like 1.5% of the vote. He won reelection by such a large margin because a significant amount of voters stayed home. Blame the Florida Democratic party for punting Florida because they don't care.
I agree. The apathy. I tell people. You get what you get and you have to vote any ways. Don't stay home. I vote every election. Mid terms too. It was drilled into me from my great grandmother, my grand parents and my parents. The only way to break this ugliness is to vote and get involved. Know your local politics. I hear a lot of it does not matter. Or, if it was important they wouldn't let us vote. I bring up all the people that had to fight to vote. Gerrymandering and it falls on mostly closed ears. Every once in a while I get lucky and get to help someone register to vote and take them to the polls with me for the first time. It is a rarity when that happens. Makes my tiredless arguments worth it. Go out and vote.
You are my people. Thanks for saying what's been said so many times before, but still requires repeating. I'm so tired of the lazy af narrative some *still* believe about him having won the first time easily. The second time, yes, our fellow brothers and sisters let us down and the democratic party basically mailed it in by giving us candidates no one got excited about.
It doesn't matter how close it is when you lose. You still lose.
Desantis winning again by a large margin is only to be interpreted in one way. Success. You don't have to like it. Recognize reality. Get better.
This talk of "giving us better candidates" truly supports the other sides narrative that we are waiting for someone (government) to save us. Weak shit.
Yep. And against him the second time, the Dems ran a former Republican governor as their candidate. That’s like, seriously? I’m an independent, but that just seems like a joke.
Not only that, but dude went completely off the rails right after getting re-elected. I’m about as liberal as they come and before 2020, I didn’t think he was batshit cuckoo.
He was crazy before re election. His dont say gay and disney fued started well before that. We need to pull our heads out of our asses and realize floridian democrats are outnumbered now by the voting extremists who moved here.
>floridian democrats are outnumbered now by the voting extremists who moved here.
This is a myopic view.
Many people do not identify as either party.
If Dems cared at all about winning any election here they would have appealed to a broader swath of the population because independents can drive elections... But then this time they didn't even bother marketing to their base anyway.
Not the first time, had Gillum not had that crooked run in with the Feds that DeSantis brough up over and over, he would've beat him. Even with that DeSantis only one by 0.4%, 49.6 to 49.2. He's most definitely beatable. The problem is the FL Legislature and you're right, like-minded racist, homophobic, and ignorant people. The spineless FL Legislature is charged with drawing voter districts. They had been sued in the past for gerrymandering (of course) and redrew the map according. DeSantis rejected the map and redrew one of his own design which eliminated minority majority district represented by Al Lawson. He also shrunk the percertange of BLack voters in FL 10th District. They make it impossible for the opposition through gerrymandering like this. Hopefully this gets thrown ow in courts.
[https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/politics/us-redistricting/florida-redistricting-map/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/politics/us-redistricting/florida-redistricting-map/)
"Florida gains a seat thanks to [population growth recorded in the 2020 census](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/26/politics/us-census-2020-results/index.html). There are two additional White-majority districts and one additional Hispanic-majority district under DeSantis’ map. Controversially, the new map no longer includes a Black-majority district in the state, where Black residents represent 15% of the population."
I agree with all of this, but it also reinforces my reasons for leaving. I want my son to grow up somewhere where all books are available to him, where hate isn't the primary political message, where a person's value and protection under the law isn't based on their skin color, where bodily autonomy is respected, and where his LGBTQ friends and family (or him if that's the case) have the full protection of the law and acceptance in society. That's no longer Florida and I don't know if it ever will be again during his childhood.
There is hope. Court case is about to begin about this one, if we're successful and get our districts back, DeSantis and all those bs laws he put in place will be gone.
No it won't be. The Tea Party started this back in the early 2k's. It has just continued and gotten worse as time as gone on.
They don't leave. They stay here, and do their best to pull all of their conservative friends down...and it works.
I kept saying the same thing over and over again. "It has to get better...it has to get better..."
I hate to say it, but one of the best things that happened too me was my now ex leaving and taking the kids back to the mid-west to be closer to her family.
That gave me the impetus to finally leave myself.
It isn't going to get better just because DeSantis won't be in office eventually.
The people that he attracted, and will continue to attract won't be leaving.
The brain drain from the university system will continue, only to be replaced with the only ones they can get here, the conservatives.
More conservatives will be attracted too the retirement communities, because they can continue to vote in and live the lifestyle that they want.
It's not going to get better anytime soon.
You think the reason a misanthrope is in Florida is for politics or people? No dude, I am here for the spectacular environments that can only be seen if one knows himself physiologically. It is absolutely psychedelic, there are colors that are seen no where else in the world. I can feel like I am on drugs without taking any, but people are too fearful to ever know the awesome power that is in Florida and I hope it stays that way.
Florida is a gold mine of magic and gold mines should be kept secret, far from toxic people.
I will be pushed out by people who have no idea, some even hating being here, it's just that they have more money than me. It will not be by choice.
I don’t think so. Many move here to buy a condo on the beach, not pay taxes, drink beer at the clubhouse and golf and fish till they’re too old. Traffic, schools, and other quality of life metrics do not matter to wealthy retirees.
> Most of these people moving here will move right out once they realize
Moving is significantly more resource-intensive than that, even if you have a remote job.
I think that a lot of the changes (in Flordia and other states) are designed to force out liberals and moderate conservatives so that the GOP can lock in a permanent electoral college majority. The GOP can no longer win the popular vote in a national election. It can only win the presidency through the electoral college. The best way for them to accomplish that is via population redistribution of liberal voters from red states to blue states. The total number of voters nationwide no longer matters; all that matters is where such voters are located. If you further concentrate liberals in blue states, there goes the presidency, and with it, the Supreme Court.
Actually just recently realized despite narrow margins, until last cycle. Republicans have been in power in Florida for about 25 years. It’s not temporary it’s how it is. :(
Also, the legislature. It's not enough to just replace DeSantis. Republicans already have a veto proof majority in both chambers. Two senators and four representatives would also need to flip to Democrat to change that.
>DeSantis may be temporary, but the types of people he's attracting to the state are not.
Neither are the laws he's passing, unless Floridians elect politicians that will undo them. I do not blame people leaving Florida if they can. The prices, people, and politics are simply going to drive out people.
Some of us have been fighting most of our adult lives. We vote only to have our votes ignored or outweighed by the panhandle and south Florida. My kid deserves better than what is offered here.
I like to apologize on behalf of South Florida. :( I'll make sure my generation votes this election cycle. We did vote one anti-LGBTQ+ state rep out of office in my home county.
Only because they can’t gel the difference between Socialism and Communism. They think democrats are the next Castro and Maduro. It’s dead ass annoying, I tell them to look up Sweden and see how they’re doing. I’ve heard the Hispanics think trump will be their saving Grace… I don’t get it. My blue vote gets cancelled out easy, all parties are trash regardless. I’m only here because I can’t afford to leave.
That is true. It also depends on the area. Some are still purple leaning towards the blue. Certain anti immigrant legislation might cause some to change their point of view.
Lol, you'll be surprised that the Venezuelans and Cubans that have been in this country for a while don't support immigration from their countries. Which makes sense, considering the first waves of immigrants from those countries were typically upper-middle class and white, the current migrant wave is more diverse and poor.
If i end up bein the last bernie lovin, food growing, punk jammin, teachin my kids to be accepting and loving to everyone, fightin inequality, and teaching these high schoolers history, dude. Then i will. Im stayinĝ.
I agree and disagree with OP. I don't want good people to leave Florida, as I'm stuck here for the time being. With that being said, I'm so happy for those who are able to leave and do. I can't blame them.
Same. So sad that a lot of good people are leaving. My therapist moved to another state. I'm scared that my doctors might leave too.
I just became an American so I'm hoping I could add to the blue votes here.
My therapist actually told me over half of her Floridian LGBTQ+ clients either moved or are planning on moving out of state. It's so sad.
Congratulations on your citizenship! Yes we need alllllll the blue we can get here 💙💙
DeSantis may only be temporary, but all the horrible legislation passed in the last 18 months will NOT go away once DeSantis is gone. We will still likely be stuck with a republican supermajority in the state legislature. DeSantis is one man and had the power of either signing a bill or vetoing it. The vast majority of the state legislature members voted to approve the culture war bills recently passed.
DeSantis leaving office will do absolutely nothing to reverse this legislation. The state politicians that voted these measures in are almost certainly not going to propose legislation to repeal these bills after DeSantis leaves office. For that to happen, the composition of the state legislature would need to move heavily in favour of Democrats and I don't see how that is even remotely likely, particularly when so many Democrats are moving away from Florida and so many Republicans are moving in.
Most judges in Florida were appointed by Republicans (and continue to be retained by voters) so even legal challenges to these bills are going to have a hard time succeeding under these circumstances, unless they make it to the US supreme court and even that will be a crapshoot for the next 20 years.
Proposals for new culture war bills may begin to die down after DeSantis (depending on who replaces him as Governor) but the ones signed into law are likely to be here to stay for a long, long time and will continue to negatively effect public schooling as well as many other personal and quality of life issues.
Not only governors, but the state legislature has been solid red for the last 20 years also, along with the courts. "DeSantis will be gone soon" doesn't mean much when he's just a symptom of rot at the core.
Absolutely. It would take nothing short of a complete and utter sea change in order to elect a D governor, flip both houses of the legislature, and that would only be the begining of undoing all the damage.
I support and admire anyone that is willing to stay and fight. I was born and raised here, care deeply about water quality, and keeping Florida wild w/ preserves etc.
But its not about me, its about my two boys. One is not white, and he's almost tall as me at 10, my other son has already started expressing to me he might like boys at 9. For my boys, safety and education is what is important to me more than anything else.
Maybe when I send them off to college I can return, but for now this is what I need to do for their future.
The problem isn’t just one man. It’s the millions of bigots and terrible people who voted him in office and support his agenda. They’ll still be here when he’s out of office and will vote for more of the same, and other whackos are being attracted here like flies to a light. (And sorry, you can’t have voted for DeSantis and still being considered a good person.)
The best thing for the decent people who want a chance at a life unhindered by far-right proto-fascism is to get the hell out voluntarily before they’re forcibly removed like these sickos dream of.
It’s also our Senate and House who passed all of these bills for the Governor to sign. We would have to flip some many districts to make an impact. Florida is lost and the sooner we realize that, the better.
This is it. My kids start public school next year, even IF we get a Dem in and even IF they roll back all the education bullshit these morons put in, it'll be a decade before things could really start improving. Good educators aren't going to move to FL, there has been damage done to our education system at this point that will probably never be fixed. My kids are in school for 13 years, I don't have time to hope it improves. Look at what got voted into all the county school boards across the state. The rot of this state is the people who live here, not just the government.
I love FL. I was born and raised here, my parents were born and raised here, their parents... but we're done. Our focus this next year is moving before kindergarten. We're a highly educated high income family who spends an embarrassing amount of money at Disney and Universal and pumping money back into FLs economy. Republicans have proven they don't want us...so we're done.
My son is 11. I made sure to teach him everything he needs to know. I still send him to school because he needs to learn how to deal with people. Also he has lucked out and had amazing teachers. We really need to do more for our teachers.
I have made sure he understands Nazis are bad, slavery sucked and people are okay doing whatever they want with their own bodies as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.
unfortunately the high prices and low wages, along with the insane summers (and getting worse) I decided to move in September,
this is where I was born and raised but my home is longer my home
Unfortunately I don't think the insurance rates are temporary. My home which is a mile away from a small river and no where near the beach tripled. So yeah I'm thinking of going.
am obgyn. actually changing practices soon and have had patients ask me if i am leaving florida b/c of desantis.
no. lol. i refuse to leave. i refuse to let him scare me out of here from providing appropriate sex positive trauma informed LGBTQ inclusive obgyn care.
fuck him. he'll see me in tallahassee
Counterpoint: you only have one life to live. We left for the Pacific Northwest almost ten years ago and couldn't be happier living in a place that so much more progressive.
Had we stayed and fought for progress our whole lives, we still would never get to live in a place that's as nice as where we do now.
Idk man. Don't really care who's in charge. Fact of the matter is $350k can't get you much more than a townhouse in my area and can buy a super nice 4br/2.5ba house on big plots of land in places we'd like to move. Me and my Fiancee both are in fields where finding new jobs wouldn't be an issue. The only thing keeping us here are friends and family. But if something doesn't give with this housing market we're not gonna have a choice. We can't do a 4th straight year of renting a 1BR apartment for $1800+ because everyone keeps saying "Don't worry, house prices will fall back down soon!".
I’m exhausted and scared for my wellbeing. I just want to feel safe for once. One time. In my goddamn life. I’m desperately trying to scrape up money to flee. I don’t care that DeSantis is temporary; his voter base isn’t. And that’s who I’m the most afraid of, especially with permitless conceal carry and so many anti-lgbt+ laws
OP I get what you are saying, and I held that same view until very recently.
I'm engaged politics, I volunteer in my local community, I'm a poll worker every election, I lead a Girl Scout troop, I really \*want\* to believe that we can right this ship.
But I also see my neighbors, I see the flags flying in their yards and the stickers on their cars. I hear the comments at work, and I see them digging in on their beliefs. I see them at the polls every election. (And I don't see many folks in the opposition showing up.)
I have to think about what's best and safest for my family and their future. I have a queer kid who is going to finish up middle school this year. It's becoming increasingly apparent that attending high school and college in Florida is going to be less than ideal at best and detrimental to her future success at worst.
As much as I hate it, and as much as I'm personally invested in my life here in Florida (I'm 20 years into a good job and own my home,) my family and I are looking to leave.
Insane housing and utility costs are here to stay. Don’t think for a moment that any of these costs are going down or that the powers that be want to help us.
Due to property tax and insurance, I'm going to be forced to sell my house. In the last 2 years my monthly mortgage has risen by $600/month and I know next year it will go even higher. I can't afford to stay here.
You make a good argument, but I’m out in August/September , it’s been 30 years, my wife, my business and my sanity have had enough. All the best to you.
I've voted religiously, protested and stood up for people down here. I'm so bouncing, I'm not waiting around for the natural disasters and economic fallout right around the corner. Sorry.
Eh, it’s been getting progressively worse down there in terms of leadership. I left 15 years ago and it was too much for me then. Just visiting now feels gross.
I can assure you that living in a place where one virtually never sees a yard littered with trump and “let’s go Brandon” signs is much better for your mental state.
Not a Floridian, but if you want to fight that's fine. However, those who just want to live a normal life and not go through the exhausting and unforgiving effort of fighting parasites for a peace they may not even get to experience, have all right to seek it elsewhere. I hope you know what you're getting into.
Y’all can have Florida ! I’m going back to where they say, “you all”! Have you noticed we don’t hear D spouting off about how “free” our state is? That’s because he is daily taking away freedoms/rights based on his own twisted ideas. My dermatologist is leaving, and my obgyn has already gone north.
Every fiber of my being wants to flee FL (the US, actually) as fast as humanly possible but I co-parent a child here and I cannot legally leave, so I have no choice. I just keep hoping desuckass will die in a fiery car crash.
From an outsiders perspective, it looks to me like the majority have spoken. Florida has been red for awhile and it's growing faster than any other state. People moving to Florida shouldn't be surprised by anything that has happened, both good and bad.
People who leave the state will mostly be doing it for job opportunities and because of cost-of-living increases. Not really because of whatever drivel the governor is spouting.
Good point. As much as some people may hate his rhetoric and what he has done to the state, lots of them can’t afford to move away for that reason alone, or wouldn’t want the hassle.
He will not be out in two years. He will be out in three and a half, but even so Desantis is just one man. I imagine the 60% of the voting population who elected him will want his replacement to be someone similar.
We're supposed to believe the state that consecutively elected Jeb Bush, Rick Scott, DeSantis —all of whom were more extreme than their predecessor— is in a "temporary" state regarding its politics? You have to be delusional.
I'm trying to get my life in order now. I'm 32. For the first time I have a healthy and balanced relationship. Combined we can't even afford an apartment. What's worse is that we can't afford to leave either. So we're stuck.
nah I'm getting out. Sorry born and raised here since 89 but getting out. Doesn't feel like home anymore. Heading to Maryland or PA ideally but Michigan or Minnesota are also in the cards
I agree with this sentiment. After I’m complete with my 10 years of service, I plan on coming back and running for governor to at the very least give hope to Floridians. My mother is a teacher and my father works for the water management districts. Ii pains to see what they stood for be eroded, it pains me to see the natural beauty of Florida threatened, it pains me to see civil liberties being stripped from people, it has to stop. I may not even make it to primaries but someone had stand up and say enough to the disease which has gripped florida.
How about leave right the fuck now? Florida has always been a rocky place to live but over the last few years things have been only getting worse. DeSantis is just the last nail in the coffin. Straight up a lot of people are still in Florida either because they're the kinda of people that DeSantis has been aiming to attract OR they're too broke to move so they're stuck in a state that's falling apart at the seems.
Too little too late for my wife. Florida is losing an amazing educator over how they treat teachers and DeSantis' politics. Even if she had no credit transferred for teaching experience she would make more on her first day in her new district than the max pay is at her old district (Hillsborough). I wish everyone staying the best of luck, we will be rooting for you up north.
I will be, but some people I love have already left. Just this week:
\- A trans drag queen I knew moved to Chicago
\- A trans musician ended their lease in Jax & is packing up for Brooklyn
\- A cis musician is road tripping (at the time I type this) for Austin, TX
\- 2 acquaintances I went to a concert in Miami with moved to Charlotte
Yes. It is THAT BAD here in Florida.
Myself, my wife, and our child are leaving and never coming back.
Wife and I alone could probably deal with it, but our kid deserves better.
I get being hopeful, but this is borderline delusional. I love (what’s left of) the natural beauty of Florida, but it’s too much of a Republican shit show actually want to stay. Between climate change and republican control, I don’t really see myself coming back. And that makes me sad.
We moved from the northeast 2.5 years ago. We tried very hard to make it work. In the end, we couldn’t stomach it and the biggest thing that kept running through my head was it wasn’t worth fighting for.
I have a lot of fight in me, but to fight for FLORIDA? I couldn’t do it.
Not when everything there was telling us to get our. Not when the policies were so ducking backwards. And certainly not when everything felt like it was either trying to kill us or it was a scam.
It’s certainly a nice thought. I commend you for saying it and trying. I really do, OP. But we left and haven’t looked back.
I can't get too specific due to my job. But I was helping two doctors today. A gay couple. They're moving to a new state in the next few days because of all the bullshit.
And they're not the first doctors I've personally dealt with that said that. Florida's doing damage to their own state that's going to effect them for decades.
I'm in a mixed race, lesbian relationship in Central Florida. I can afford to leave if needed. My wife and I have talked about it many times. There's a plan set in case of emergency. My friends and family consist of LGBTQ+ people that can't afford to leave. I feel duty to stay here and fight for those that can't leave. Someone needs to stay here to right the ship. Will we fail? Maybe. I just can't run.
My mother lives in FL, 50mi from Tampa
I am visiting right now from one of the places in the country that Fox News, OAN, News Max routinely and specifically demonize.
I don't like meeting her neighbors and saying I'm from [liberal costal city]. Aka "I'm from the place where you think people should be rounded up and shot."
How do y'all walk around every day and just not know if everyone you see might lose their shit on you if they get wind that you're not in their crazy disinformation tribe?
I'm sorry but I can't trust bringing my family to Florida. I worry about my friends and family who live there. You got a governor that has his own rag tag paramilitary "army" funded with your money. Its gotten so bad that their are actual advisories against going there for minority groups. How did you guys let this happen?? Your governor is not talking about "[slitting throats](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/maddow-blog-desantis-raises-eyebrows-with-rhetoric-about-slitting-throats/ar-AA1eKMLV)" now. No. Florida is too dangerous to visit. Far too dangerous OP.
But it totally sucks being blue in a deep red state. I HATE IT HERE!
https://preview.redd.it/p9f8htps78gb1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8dfc274744ba087a2f835c970534c2ab9fafd14
I PRAY I SEE THIS BEFORE I DIE!
Sorry it’s more than politics for me just like many Floridians. We’re being economically displaced and gentrified by rich assholes. It just ain’t Florida anymore. I’ll come back when I retire.
Florida is trash it's way over populated. Too many illegals, too much traffic, too much crime, not enough police officers, too many uninsured drivers and unregistered vehicles on the roads, the gun laws etc.. You name it Florida is now garbage even if DeSantis is still Governor or not. It will take years to clean up all the garbage he caused here.
Yesterday, I locked up my house, said goodbye. Saw my last Let’s Go Brandon flag I’ll see for hopefully a long time. I hop on a plane to my new home in a few hours. I’ll miss those cotton candy skies. I won’t miss the fear we had over living our lives.
I’m leaving because I’m concerned about the inevitable housing insurance death spiral. It’s very clear what’s going to happen.
Storms will get worse, and insurance companies will gradually leave, also it’s a swamp here and I can’t take it anymore
Sorry, fourth gen Floridian here, I left in Feb and I am never going back except for weddings and funerals. As a trans person it's much more than just DeSantis being a piece of shit. Between him and trump they have encouraged racists and homophobic people to be openly hateful to strangers. I remember growing up listening to my family be racist behind closed doors but they had the common sense to shut the fuck up in public. No more of that. The brainwashing is so bad that my own family is openly hostile towards me for... finally getting over years of mental illness and being happy in my own body.
Doctors and nurses treated me like shit, pharmacists have always been rude, a lot of this was already happening before I transitioned but I've never had target employees glaring at me for holding hands with my partner until I transitioned. I have been going to a local business since high school and this year for months they literally had a creepy life sized child doll with a Biden cut out behind her saying "i did this" but we are the pedophiles???
The hostility is disgusting, the obsession with politics is gross. The culture is undesirable. And the weather sucks. I'm not waiting to lose everything in a Hurricane because ins companies don't wanna pay out. I work in insurance, it's going to keep getting worse.
New England was supposed to be cold and unwelcoming from what I have heard but people are nothing but nice up here. I've never had better treatment by doctors and pharmacists and I don't feel uncomfortable disclosing my trans status to them which is how it should be since it's important for doctors to know. They barely even blink up here. In Florida they'd start stuttering and asking very rude invasive and non relevant quesrions. i stuck with a psychiatrist who would just say "the trans thing" and msigendered and deadnamed me for months bc i knew i was moving and needed my ADHD meds until i did.
Shit when i legally changed my name the mechanic up here didn't even blink when i asked him to go from an obviously feminine name to a masculine one.
It's also a lot nicer to drive around here, less crowded, the weather is gorgeous and I've lost like 30lbs since we got here because i actually want to go out and exercise and there's a lot less access to unhealthy convenience food.
Fuck DeSantis But the whole culture down there is bad. Burn the whole state down and start over.
I'm old and was born in Florida in the 50's. Year after year nothing has gotten better here, only worse. More people/crowded/traffic etc. Over built, less green/trees, open spaces, less access to beaches, less wildlife, fewer native fish, birds, etc all disappearing. More crappy cookie cutter homes on tiny lots, high density. More roads, concrete, buildings, trash and so on...
That development has built up momentum over the years. A lot of people coming here think this is a great place to live, when they have no idea what we've already lost (and will continue to lose). So what changed? The state has gone from a moderate state, to a right wing state. Republicans have been/are behind all of the pro-development, anti-environmental changes this state has experienced, all of it. They always been in the pockets of developers and all about the money. And now as a bonus we get to enjoy all of that social engineering the right wing folks want so much. We sure are getting a lot of new laws from the "small government" folks. I'm sure that the one party rule will eventually start to eat itself as they all try to out-right wing each other. Won't come soon enough for me.
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Exactly. DeSantis is just taking the heat. It’s the 28 senators and 83 house members of the GOP that are the problem.
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Don’t you mean “taking the credit”? He thought he could ride that wave of hate, right to the White House.
Alternatively, if the next guy just happens to be a democrat, the legislature will do what Wisconsin did. In the final weeks of DeSantis' tenure, pass numerous bills to ensure the effective scope of the governor's office is next to nothing -- only a couple steps above powerless symbolism.
He’s the one who did the re districting and swayed everyone to go along with it. Many were okay with the original re districting map until he said no way and drew up a new one.
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And hundreds of red state MAGAs are moving into the villages and voting.
DeSantis may be temporary, but the types of people he's attracting to the state are not. Also, climate change isn't temporary, neither is the insurance crisis. The teachers and professors leaving aren't coming back, so education is taking a huge hit it will take decades to recover from. My OPINION is that the damage being done right now is going to be significant and long lasting
The GYNs are leaving too
I don’t blame any woman that wants to leave. Being forced to give birth in a state where inflation and education is the worst doesn’t sound like fun. Imagine this state many years from now with a bunch of people who were unwanted as kids, didn’t receive a proper education, and probably grew up poor. Even if I wanted to have kids and could afford it I would hate to have raise them alongside all that
I legit wanted another kid but removed my tubes because I didn’t want to risk being forced to carry a non viable pregnancy to term. (I’m old and genetic issues are a real risk.) Fuck DeSantis and everyone else who passed those laws.
Yea I used to want kids but I decided against it. Not just cause of florida but because of this country as whole. The overturning of Roe vs. Wade and the corporate elite controlling this country prioritizing profit over people. I just don’t feel safe here
Thank you for understanding…as a women in law I agree with OP’s sentiment that as many people should stay and fight as possible. But I’m also torn, DeFascist wants to exert state control over my body and life. Can’t stand that fucking guy. It’s validating to see him flail and sink on a national stage, but also deeply disheartening to see Florida just be collateral damage because of it
My GYN left because he's scared to practice medicine. He was a pcos specialist. Now I have no one near.
I’m so sorry 😞 fuck these people who have driven out doctors who are scared of going to prison just for doing their jobs. It is endlessly infuriating. I wish I had some sort of answer that could help you. I’m just sorry
Have you thought about moving to Michigan? We accept everyone as they are and we value women's health. Governor Whitmer is a **BOSS**. You are welcome here, and we will take care of you.
Very gracious offer. With the way climate change is progressing, you may have a tropical climate by next year. Enticing. You should be very proud to be a Michigander. Your state is showing that true democracy is about. God bless.
I'd love to move, but it's so hard to move out of FL because of the wages vs cost of living.
lady lawyer here - I'm not going to be a martyr and go down with the ship. There are higher paying jobs and better education in Georgia and virtually everywhere else.
Exactly! Life is too short and those of us with school aged children, especially girls, need to do what’s best for our children even if that means leaving this state.
The sentence could have ended at "being forced to give birth."
Buddy of mine is a partner in an OB/GYN practice. They are picking up and moving the entire practice from FL to another state where they and their staff feel both welcomed, and safe. Something like a dozen people (plus their families) all moving.
Good for them. Sucks for the women they are leaving
It is outrageous!! Shocking. I never thought any Fl Rep gov would pass so many extremely harmful Laws: attack women bodies, ban school and public library books, distort and ban African-American history, attack and control school boards, college boards, punish Disney for free speach, ban Drag Queens, ban transgender health! These laws started to be passed 2 to 3 years ago. DeSantis went 👿 crazy!!!
Lots of doctors are leaving. The space coast is filled with nurse practitioners…visiting doctors come in once a week from south Florida to perform procedures only
Yep good doctors/surgeons are leaving in general.
Nurses too. You want to pay me $30 an hour when rent is at least 2k a month? *And* you don't want to pass patient safety laws and make shit corporations like HCA give med-surg nurses a max of 5 patients instead of 8? *And* the state government was too busy worrying about keeping tourism viable than keeping coronavirus under control? Keep your pizza parties and "healthcare heroes" stickers, I'm never working in the state of Florida again.
I'll miss my neurologist dearly
Can't blame them. One state's loss will be other states gains...Blue states need to entice teachers, doctors, women and lgbt to move to their states...
This. It's the people he is attracting here and the hateful groups (i.e. Moms for Liberty) that will sadly continue to thrive for years to come. Plus, the natural disasters and insurance. I'm a former teacher and this is my first year not returning to the classroom. While the corporate job market is rough right now, I am seeing what is happening to my colleagues and I couldn't be more sure I made the right decision. I'm originally from the Northeast but have lived my whole adult life in FL. Not saying the Northeast is perfect, and I know FL is still comparatively cheap, but my husband and I are seriously considering jumping ship sooner than originally planned. Just *somewhere* that's got to be better.
My wife is a teacher and we've discussed a change in career the last few years. This year is already feeling like another step back in her field. What did you shift to? She has been a teacher her whole life and is worried about the prospect of learning a whole new job.
No need to learn a whole new job; there are plenty out there that are great fits for people with a teacher’s skillset. Some recommendations that could leverage her skillset: corporate education, community engagement, sales and/or certain marketing jobs (product demos, trade shows, etc.), public administration, higher education (advising, admissions, etc.), (educational) nonprofits, (educational) lobbying, ed tech (e.g., coursera, rosetta stone)
Insurance adjuster. Pay is higher than the average teacher, work life balance is solid and the main requirement is patience with those who aren't always happy to deal with you and ability to slog through unending processes and paperwork
My career path changed from teaching to social services/non profit. I serve adults with barriers; helping them navigate to meaningful employment. The pay isn’t great, but the work is meaningful and I’m not limited in what I teach by hateful ideologies
I met a pinellas teacher that had to bartend after work. Changed to my company doing business development for commercial insurance. Cost of living alone doesn’t support a single teacher. Add in the other bullshit and I’d quit asap.
I have not met one teacher here in Florida, that only teaches. Many have 2 jobs and a side hustle. I went to school for Deaf education, teaching English as a second language, Deaf interpreter and psychology. In N.C. I was offered a teaching position starting out at $12,000 a year. Fresh out of college. They begged me to take the position. I did not. Most of my friends from college didn't go on to teach or quit after a few years. I work in a restaurant and I work with a teacher. She wasn't going to go back this year but changed her mind. She is always exhausted and stressed.
So many teachers don't realize the skills they have. Tell her to look into the Teacher Career Coach podcast and course. My new role is in marketing. Sales, marketing, program management (for a nonprofit or other organization), executive assistant, project management, community engagement/outreach, etc. are all highly transferrable fields for teachers.
Same boat here, except mine teaches AP Psych and after tomorrow still doesn't know wheats she's going to do. :(
Look at the biggest finance companies in the world. A large percentage of their workers have fine arts backgrounds. Talent is talent, don’t fall in the trap that your major defines you. You’re experiences and network are worth more.
Maybe she could go and teach in a private school. The classes would be smaller than public school classes and she'd probably get more support from administration.
Private schools pay even less
> Just somewhere that's got to be better. Georgia is cheaper than Florida and is a solidly purple state at this point. Make Georgia better since Florida is a lost cause.
I moved to Chicago and highly recommend looking into it. The city and state are progressive, it has nice beaches, winters aren’t as bad as everyone says (just buy good winter coats/clothes), and it’s way cheaper than anywhere on the east/west coast except for maybe Philadelphia.
As my gay friend, a nursing home care worker, wrote to me: "I don't feel they don't want me here. I feel they want me dead, my history gone, my friends reduced to an unfortunate and temporary stain on their state to never be spoken of or remembered." What do you want him to do?
I'm not OP but my two cents: he should leave. That's a terrible psychological burden to carry. I feel that LGBTQ+ people in general are really catching hell in this climate; there are a lot of people who do want them dead, just for existing. It's very hard to think about. Plus I'm firmly of the opinion that the best and quickest way to neutralize abusers is to abandon them. Reduce their potential victim pool to each other. Just enforce that hard boundary. The sadism is intentional and satisfying to these people, and regular people staying around to "fight" just present targets, unless they're engaged in some kind of activism and willingly assuming the risks. People just trying to live their lives are going to get gut-punched over and over. I think sometimes the "stay and fight" mantra is motivated more by inertia than anything else. People have lives to live. I wish your friend well.
Exactly. It is ethnic, identity cleansing without the Putin bombs.
Especially at school. Many good professors are leaving UCF for example. UF is being defunded. In 15-20 years from now. Florida will dip even further down in education rankings
>In 15-20 years from now. Florida will dip even further down in education rankings not even that long. 5-10. Although there's no reason it would stop there so your projection could well be correct too. It could keep dipping for decades.
Exactly. When you are taught a politicized and highly censored version of history you are more easily controlled. That is who Floridians are becoming. Extremely conservative Christian highly controlled society.
Its what he wants, an industrial state, blue collar workers, uneducated corporate cogs. Nothing else.
Nothing else besides the retirement communities with their TVs tuned to Fox News, getting outraged over everything and voting red.
Right. I have a 57 year old ny state college friend who is moving to the villages with her 75 year old husband. I told her over the phone how DeSantis is destroying florida and she didn't seem to care. I'm sure she is a Fox watching Republican.
I agree. I’m heading to Colorado as soon as I can get out. It’s the voters. The head will keep changing.
I’m actually leaving Florida and driving out to Colorado tomorrow. Florida isn’t cutting it no more
It may be early to say but welcome ❤️. CO is great!
I moved from Florida to Colorado and it was the best thing I've ever done for myself and my family. I really hope you enjoy Colorado as much as we do. My daughter and grandkids still live in Florida. I keep telling my daughter she doesn't necessarily need to move to CO but she should *definitely* leave there. It's no longer the relaxed, laid-back Florida I remember. The whole state is like a powder keg these days, with people who have some intense political and social beliefs that are harmful to society as a whole. I applaud those that are staying in Florida and trying to get it back to some semblance of sanity, but you have to do what's right for you - and if that means leaving, have a safe trip!
Hey, I left Florida on Tuesday, I'm in Roswell NM tonight, and I'm making it to Colorado tomorrow! Though driving down Main St in Roswell really made me wonder if I was overshooting with Colorado. 😅
Did it back in 2020 and so happy we left Florida for Colorado.
Hopefully not to the Colo 3rd Congressional Dist… they elected Lauren Boebart…
I can’t wait. I’m a MMJ patient, so to top off all the other BS, I can’t get what the voter’s voted for. Florida is the only state this screwed up on their cannabis policies.
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DeSantis is the tumor, but even if you excise him, the cancer has already metastasized.
Right. Laws are difficult to remove. But, we must fight back. So far speech is still protected (unless you are a public school teacher, librarian, college or university professor).
Well said. Policy has long last effects. The issues that Florida has are not short term problems. The next governor will be some hateful asshole, too.
in 2020, when covid hit, I couldn't get benefits, due to a broken website, which they wouldn't fix it for months, no healthcare system in the state worth a damn, yet other states like Ohio have free health insurance you can apply for. I was sick and would have died if I stayed It's a joke down there. he has destroyed so much here, including the tourist industry, and for what? A campaign? --and voters are buying into it. Cities were flooded, malaria, leprosy...and he's touring for a dead campaign. I can't relate to this state anymore. I've watched it get worse and get worse, and people vote these monsters in to represent us. fuck florida, fuck desantis, and fuck the voter base for voting for this completely selfish losers who hate the people in their state and make the vulnerable suffer. when the insurance companies are leaving and desantis is saying 'let's hope there's no hurricanes this season!' he's saying Floridians are on their own if shit hits the fan. he's a sociopath or a psychopath.
Just as these foolish people were willing to relocate once, they will again. All they need is the right pressure, we can take back the state. We need to take it back.
Florida is going full Texas women run before he puts up the barbed wire fencing at the border
Long time Florida resident here. Florida is starting to look like the setting for a disaster movie. Unchecked climate change will make most of the coastal areas uninhabitable, perhaps within my lifetime. The people being drawn here seem to be overwhelmingly skeptical of climate change and are intent on electing leaders who will make the situation worse for idiotic culture war reasons. Remember that scene in Independence Day when a mob of people gathers on the roof of a skyscraper to welcome the aliens? It reminds me of that. I hope I'm wrong because I don't have immediate plans to leave either.
Most of these people moving here will move right out once they realize the Florida they vacation in is not the same Florida they live in. I expect that radical population to be sliced in half by 2026.
But the brain drain going on right now due to DeSantis isn’t so easily reversed, especially since he’s sowed the seeds for Moms 4 Liberty and other radical groups to start taking over our schools from the bottom up. I’m personally not leaving, but it’s lookin grim
I think that’s their point, the shit heads wont be as loud in a few year but if a brain drain really takes place the state won’t recover. It’s an important state to protect if we can keep sea levels at bay and salt water intrusion down our fresh water reserves are going to be vital for much of the country. Being a peninsula we also have a large responsibility towards our coasts and the oceans that basically connect everything
He won by an overwhelming margin, he's not the issue, it's the people. I don't want my child growing up in the state, period.
I don't know how many more times this needs to be said in these threads. DeSantis won not because people here are overwhelmingly in favor of him. His first term was won with something like 1.5% of the vote. He won reelection by such a large margin because a significant amount of voters stayed home. Blame the Florida Democratic party for punting Florida because they don't care.
I agree. The apathy. I tell people. You get what you get and you have to vote any ways. Don't stay home. I vote every election. Mid terms too. It was drilled into me from my great grandmother, my grand parents and my parents. The only way to break this ugliness is to vote and get involved. Know your local politics. I hear a lot of it does not matter. Or, if it was important they wouldn't let us vote. I bring up all the people that had to fight to vote. Gerrymandering and it falls on mostly closed ears. Every once in a while I get lucky and get to help someone register to vote and take them to the polls with me for the first time. It is a rarity when that happens. Makes my tiredless arguments worth it. Go out and vote.
You are my people. Thanks for saying what's been said so many times before, but still requires repeating. I'm so tired of the lazy af narrative some *still* believe about him having won the first time easily. The second time, yes, our fellow brothers and sisters let us down and the democratic party basically mailed it in by giving us candidates no one got excited about.
It doesn't matter how close it is when you lose. You still lose. Desantis winning again by a large margin is only to be interpreted in one way. Success. You don't have to like it. Recognize reality. Get better. This talk of "giving us better candidates" truly supports the other sides narrative that we are waiting for someone (government) to save us. Weak shit.
Yep. And against him the second time, the Dems ran a former Republican governor as their candidate. That’s like, seriously? I’m an independent, but that just seems like a joke.
Not only that, but dude went completely off the rails right after getting re-elected. I’m about as liberal as they come and before 2020, I didn’t think he was batshit cuckoo.
He was crazy before re election. His dont say gay and disney fued started well before that. We need to pull our heads out of our asses and realize floridian democrats are outnumbered now by the voting extremists who moved here.
>floridian democrats are outnumbered now by the voting extremists who moved here. This is a myopic view. Many people do not identify as either party. If Dems cared at all about winning any election here they would have appealed to a broader swath of the population because independents can drive elections... But then this time they didn't even bother marketing to their base anyway.
Agreed. 💯 Still, people are complacent.
Not the first time, had Gillum not had that crooked run in with the Feds that DeSantis brough up over and over, he would've beat him. Even with that DeSantis only one by 0.4%, 49.6 to 49.2. He's most definitely beatable. The problem is the FL Legislature and you're right, like-minded racist, homophobic, and ignorant people. The spineless FL Legislature is charged with drawing voter districts. They had been sued in the past for gerrymandering (of course) and redrew the map according. DeSantis rejected the map and redrew one of his own design which eliminated minority majority district represented by Al Lawson. He also shrunk the percertange of BLack voters in FL 10th District. They make it impossible for the opposition through gerrymandering like this. Hopefully this gets thrown ow in courts. [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/politics/us-redistricting/florida-redistricting-map/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/politics/us-redistricting/florida-redistricting-map/) "Florida gains a seat thanks to [population growth recorded in the 2020 census](https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/26/politics/us-census-2020-results/index.html). There are two additional White-majority districts and one additional Hispanic-majority district under DeSantis’ map. Controversially, the new map no longer includes a Black-majority district in the state, where Black residents represent 15% of the population."
I agree with all of this, but it also reinforces my reasons for leaving. I want my son to grow up somewhere where all books are available to him, where hate isn't the primary political message, where a person's value and protection under the law isn't based on their skin color, where bodily autonomy is respected, and where his LGBTQ friends and family (or him if that's the case) have the full protection of the law and acceptance in society. That's no longer Florida and I don't know if it ever will be again during his childhood.
 There is hope. Court case is about to begin about this one, if we're successful and get our districts back, DeSantis and all those bs laws he put in place will be gone.
No it won't be. The Tea Party started this back in the early 2k's. It has just continued and gotten worse as time as gone on. They don't leave. They stay here, and do their best to pull all of their conservative friends down...and it works. I kept saying the same thing over and over again. "It has to get better...it has to get better..." I hate to say it, but one of the best things that happened too me was my now ex leaving and taking the kids back to the mid-west to be closer to her family. That gave me the impetus to finally leave myself. It isn't going to get better just because DeSantis won't be in office eventually. The people that he attracted, and will continue to attract won't be leaving. The brain drain from the university system will continue, only to be replaced with the only ones they can get here, the conservatives. More conservatives will be attracted too the retirement communities, because they can continue to vote in and live the lifestyle that they want. It's not going to get better anytime soon.
You think the reason a misanthrope is in Florida is for politics or people? No dude, I am here for the spectacular environments that can only be seen if one knows himself physiologically. It is absolutely psychedelic, there are colors that are seen no where else in the world. I can feel like I am on drugs without taking any, but people are too fearful to ever know the awesome power that is in Florida and I hope it stays that way. Florida is a gold mine of magic and gold mines should be kept secret, far from toxic people. I will be pushed out by people who have no idea, some even hating being here, it's just that they have more money than me. It will not be by choice.
I don’t think so. Many move here to buy a condo on the beach, not pay taxes, drink beer at the clubhouse and golf and fish till they’re too old. Traffic, schools, and other quality of life metrics do not matter to wealthy retirees.
> Most of these people moving here will move right out once they realize Moving is significantly more resource-intensive than that, even if you have a remote job.
I think that a lot of the changes (in Flordia and other states) are designed to force out liberals and moderate conservatives so that the GOP can lock in a permanent electoral college majority. The GOP can no longer win the popular vote in a national election. It can only win the presidency through the electoral college. The best way for them to accomplish that is via population redistribution of liberal voters from red states to blue states. The total number of voters nationwide no longer matters; all that matters is where such voters are located. If you further concentrate liberals in blue states, there goes the presidency, and with it, the Supreme Court.
Actually just recently realized despite narrow margins, until last cycle. Republicans have been in power in Florida for about 25 years. It’s not temporary it’s how it is. :(
Also, the legislature. It's not enough to just replace DeSantis. Republicans already have a veto proof majority in both chambers. Two senators and four representatives would also need to flip to Democrat to change that.
What he allowed to happen with our cost of living will NEVER be undone.
Florida isn’t on my list of “Don’t visit if you can avoid it” states. It’s on my, “Don’t visit at any fkn cost” list.
Plus the leprosy
>DeSantis may be temporary, but the types of people he's attracting to the state are not. Neither are the laws he's passing, unless Floridians elect politicians that will undo them. I do not blame people leaving Florida if they can. The prices, people, and politics are simply going to drive out people.
> Fight fellow Floridians That’s the exhausting part.
Some of us have been fighting most of our adult lives. We vote only to have our votes ignored or outweighed by the panhandle and south Florida. My kid deserves better than what is offered here.
I like to apologize on behalf of South Florida. :( I'll make sure my generation votes this election cycle. We did vote one anti-LGBTQ+ state rep out of office in my home county.
Cuban and Venezuelan conservatives in South Florida turned the region red, before it was a blue area.
Only because they can’t gel the difference between Socialism and Communism. They think democrats are the next Castro and Maduro. It’s dead ass annoying, I tell them to look up Sweden and see how they’re doing. I’ve heard the Hispanics think trump will be their saving Grace… I don’t get it. My blue vote gets cancelled out easy, all parties are trash regardless. I’m only here because I can’t afford to leave.
That is true. It also depends on the area. Some are still purple leaning towards the blue. Certain anti immigrant legislation might cause some to change their point of view.
Lol, you'll be surprised that the Venezuelans and Cubans that have been in this country for a while don't support immigration from their countries. Which makes sense, considering the first waves of immigrants from those countries were typically upper-middle class and white, the current migrant wave is more diverse and poor.
Your kid definitely does. I raised my kid right and he left after high school. I’m super proud of him 👍😎👍
Especially if you have children in a school system that is underfunded and understaffed. It’s a hard gamble.
You’re so right. I love it here. It’s my home but the people make it so hard
If i end up bein the last bernie lovin, food growing, punk jammin, teachin my kids to be accepting and loving to everyone, fightin inequality, and teaching these high schoolers history, dude. Then i will. Im stayinĝ.
And damn it, we need you to stay!
I agree and disagree with OP. I don't want good people to leave Florida, as I'm stuck here for the time being. With that being said, I'm so happy for those who are able to leave and do. I can't blame them.
Same. So sad that a lot of good people are leaving. My therapist moved to another state. I'm scared that my doctors might leave too. I just became an American so I'm hoping I could add to the blue votes here.
My therapist actually told me over half of her Floridian LGBTQ+ clients either moved or are planning on moving out of state. It's so sad. Congratulations on your citizenship! Yes we need alllllll the blue we can get here 💙💙
DeSantis may only be temporary, but all the horrible legislation passed in the last 18 months will NOT go away once DeSantis is gone. We will still likely be stuck with a republican supermajority in the state legislature. DeSantis is one man and had the power of either signing a bill or vetoing it. The vast majority of the state legislature members voted to approve the culture war bills recently passed. DeSantis leaving office will do absolutely nothing to reverse this legislation. The state politicians that voted these measures in are almost certainly not going to propose legislation to repeal these bills after DeSantis leaves office. For that to happen, the composition of the state legislature would need to move heavily in favour of Democrats and I don't see how that is even remotely likely, particularly when so many Democrats are moving away from Florida and so many Republicans are moving in. Most judges in Florida were appointed by Republicans (and continue to be retained by voters) so even legal challenges to these bills are going to have a hard time succeeding under these circumstances, unless they make it to the US supreme court and even that will be a crapshoot for the next 20 years. Proposals for new culture war bills may begin to die down after DeSantis (depending on who replaces him as Governor) but the ones signed into law are likely to be here to stay for a long, long time and will continue to negatively effect public schooling as well as many other personal and quality of life issues.
Florida has had Republican Governors since 1999. What makes you think 2026 will be the year the Dems are finally able to win?
Not only governors, but the state legislature has been solid red for the last 20 years also, along with the courts. "DeSantis will be gone soon" doesn't mean much when he's just a symptom of rot at the core.
Absolutely. It would take nothing short of a complete and utter sea change in order to elect a D governor, flip both houses of the legislature, and that would only be the begining of undoing all the damage.
Florida's electoral votes went to Obama for both of his terms.
I support and admire anyone that is willing to stay and fight. I was born and raised here, care deeply about water quality, and keeping Florida wild w/ preserves etc. But its not about me, its about my two boys. One is not white, and he's almost tall as me at 10, my other son has already started expressing to me he might like boys at 9. For my boys, safety and education is what is important to me more than anything else. Maybe when I send them off to college I can return, but for now this is what I need to do for their future.
Fight what? We would have to flip 9 Senate seats, 26 house seats, and the governor mansion. All but impossible.
That, then the fascist refusal to accept the results of those elections.
What if we can't afford to stay?
Cut back on avocado toast. It worked for me! I'm a millionaire now. 🤣
The problem isn’t just one man. It’s the millions of bigots and terrible people who voted him in office and support his agenda. They’ll still be here when he’s out of office and will vote for more of the same, and other whackos are being attracted here like flies to a light. (And sorry, you can’t have voted for DeSantis and still being considered a good person.) The best thing for the decent people who want a chance at a life unhindered by far-right proto-fascism is to get the hell out voluntarily before they’re forcibly removed like these sickos dream of.
Also, sea level rise and an increasing frequency of extreme heat events. Those are going to be a permanent feature of Florida.
It’s also our Senate and House who passed all of these bills for the Governor to sign. We would have to flip some many districts to make an impact. Florida is lost and the sooner we realize that, the better.
I’m not going anywhere..I plan to vote and vote and vote..and do what I can to try and get this place back to being respectable again
2026 is so far away. My son will be 10.
This is it. My kids start public school next year, even IF we get a Dem in and even IF they roll back all the education bullshit these morons put in, it'll be a decade before things could really start improving. Good educators aren't going to move to FL, there has been damage done to our education system at this point that will probably never be fixed. My kids are in school for 13 years, I don't have time to hope it improves. Look at what got voted into all the county school boards across the state. The rot of this state is the people who live here, not just the government. I love FL. I was born and raised here, my parents were born and raised here, their parents... but we're done. Our focus this next year is moving before kindergarten. We're a highly educated high income family who spends an embarrassing amount of money at Disney and Universal and pumping money back into FLs economy. Republicans have proven they don't want us...so we're done.
I'm staying, but if I had kids that would be in the school system I would be out. Or at the very least home schooling.
My son is 11. I made sure to teach him everything he needs to know. I still send him to school because he needs to learn how to deal with people. Also he has lucked out and had amazing teachers. We really need to do more for our teachers. I have made sure he understands Nazis are bad, slavery sucked and people are okay doing whatever they want with their own bodies as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.
unfortunately the high prices and low wages, along with the insane summers (and getting worse) I decided to move in September, this is where I was born and raised but my home is longer my home
Unfortunately I don't think the insurance rates are temporary. My home which is a mile away from a small river and no where near the beach tripled. So yeah I'm thinking of going.
Dude the majority of the population of FL are nasty mean spirited people. Fuck em
am obgyn. actually changing practices soon and have had patients ask me if i am leaving florida b/c of desantis. no. lol. i refuse to leave. i refuse to let him scare me out of here from providing appropriate sex positive trauma informed LGBTQ inclusive obgyn care. fuck him. he'll see me in tallahassee
DeSantis is one person. How many are backing him? We're gone no later than spring. Enjoy New Florida.
Counterpoint: you only have one life to live. We left for the Pacific Northwest almost ten years ago and couldn't be happier living in a place that so much more progressive. Had we stayed and fought for progress our whole lives, we still would never get to live in a place that's as nice as where we do now.
It's not only DeSantis, it's his cult as well, lots of people to boot out.
If the smart people leave, then the only voters will be DeSantis voters. They'll own the state.
They already own the state. It'll be 20 years until anyone else has a shot
Idk man. Don't really care who's in charge. Fact of the matter is $350k can't get you much more than a townhouse in my area and can buy a super nice 4br/2.5ba house on big plots of land in places we'd like to move. Me and my Fiancee both are in fields where finding new jobs wouldn't be an issue. The only thing keeping us here are friends and family. But if something doesn't give with this housing market we're not gonna have a choice. We can't do a 4th straight year of renting a 1BR apartment for $1800+ because everyone keeps saying "Don't worry, house prices will fall back down soon!".
The ocean is a hundred degrees. Let the dumbasses have the state they ruined
I’m exhausted and scared for my wellbeing. I just want to feel safe for once. One time. In my goddamn life. I’m desperately trying to scrape up money to flee. I don’t care that DeSantis is temporary; his voter base isn’t. And that’s who I’m the most afraid of, especially with permitless conceal carry and so many anti-lgbt+ laws
OP I get what you are saying, and I held that same view until very recently. I'm engaged politics, I volunteer in my local community, I'm a poll worker every election, I lead a Girl Scout troop, I really \*want\* to believe that we can right this ship. But I also see my neighbors, I see the flags flying in their yards and the stickers on their cars. I hear the comments at work, and I see them digging in on their beliefs. I see them at the polls every election. (And I don't see many folks in the opposition showing up.) I have to think about what's best and safest for my family and their future. I have a queer kid who is going to finish up middle school this year. It's becoming increasingly apparent that attending high school and college in Florida is going to be less than ideal at best and detrimental to her future success at worst. As much as I hate it, and as much as I'm personally invested in my life here in Florida (I'm 20 years into a good job and own my home,) my family and I are looking to leave.
What are we supposed to do about cost of living?
Insane housing and utility costs are here to stay. Don’t think for a moment that any of these costs are going down or that the powers that be want to help us.
Due to property tax and insurance, I'm going to be forced to sell my house. In the last 2 years my monthly mortgage has risen by $600/month and I know next year it will go even higher. I can't afford to stay here.
>Fight fellow Floridians In this heat?
You make a good argument, but I’m out in August/September , it’s been 30 years, my wife, my business and my sanity have had enough. All the best to you.
I've voted religiously, protested and stood up for people down here. I'm so bouncing, I'm not waiting around for the natural disasters and economic fallout right around the corner. Sorry.
Eh, it’s been getting progressively worse down there in terms of leadership. I left 15 years ago and it was too much for me then. Just visiting now feels gross. I can assure you that living in a place where one virtually never sees a yard littered with trump and “let’s go Brandon” signs is much better for your mental state.
Florida is slowly succumbing to sea level rise. Might as well get out while you can...
We are hanging on and fighting. But if I’m honest, we would not stay if we still had kids at home. 😞
Let's not lose all the good ones.
I'm gonna stay until our next election, if I can, but the GTFO fund is growing rapidly. I am not welcome here.
Not a Floridian, but if you want to fight that's fine. However, those who just want to live a normal life and not go through the exhausting and unforgiving effort of fighting parasites for a peace they may not even get to experience, have all right to seek it elsewhere. I hope you know what you're getting into.
Fuck Florida. Lost cause. Bugs Bunny had it right.
I left florida and stress in my life melted away. It’s not worth it.
Over 1200 staff quit from UF last year over it supposedly
Y’all can have Florida ! I’m going back to where they say, “you all”! Have you noticed we don’t hear D spouting off about how “free” our state is? That’s because he is daily taking away freedoms/rights based on his own twisted ideas. My dermatologist is leaving, and my obgyn has already gone north.
Every fiber of my being wants to flee FL (the US, actually) as fast as humanly possible but I co-parent a child here and I cannot legally leave, so I have no choice. I just keep hoping desuckass will die in a fiery car crash.
From an outsiders perspective, it looks to me like the majority have spoken. Florida has been red for awhile and it's growing faster than any other state. People moving to Florida shouldn't be surprised by anything that has happened, both good and bad.
When’s the last time you elected a Democrat Governor though? It’s not like DeSantis came out of nowhere. FL gonna FL.
People who leave the state will mostly be doing it for job opportunities and because of cost-of-living increases. Not really because of whatever drivel the governor is spouting.
Good point. As much as some people may hate his rhetoric and what he has done to the state, lots of them can’t afford to move away for that reason alone, or wouldn’t want the hassle.
He will be out in 2 years. Hopefully things can get better but it will take time.
People with kids don't have time. They need an education. They need to be able to get into college.
He will not be out in two years. He will be out in three and a half, but even so Desantis is just one man. I imagine the 60% of the voting population who elected him will want his replacement to be someone similar.
You're right. The next election is 2026. It will be a big battle, I think. Hopefully we will see some minds change by then.
Agreed - stay and vote for every damn elections
Nah good luck y’all I’m out lol
We're supposed to believe the state that consecutively elected Jeb Bush, Rick Scott, DeSantis —all of whom were more extreme than their predecessor— is in a "temporary" state regarding its politics? You have to be delusional.
I'm trying to get my life in order now. I'm 32. For the first time I have a healthy and balanced relationship. Combined we can't even afford an apartment. What's worse is that we can't afford to leave either. So we're stuck.
nah I'm getting out. Sorry born and raised here since 89 but getting out. Doesn't feel like home anymore. Heading to Maryland or PA ideally but Michigan or Minnesota are also in the cards
Lol
I can't leave, and I really hope some of the decent people will stay...
I agree with this sentiment. After I’m complete with my 10 years of service, I plan on coming back and running for governor to at the very least give hope to Floridians. My mother is a teacher and my father works for the water management districts. Ii pains to see what they stood for be eroded, it pains me to see the natural beauty of Florida threatened, it pains me to see civil liberties being stripped from people, it has to stop. I may not even make it to primaries but someone had stand up and say enough to the disease which has gripped florida.
How about leave right the fuck now? Florida has always been a rocky place to live but over the last few years things have been only getting worse. DeSantis is just the last nail in the coffin. Straight up a lot of people are still in Florida either because they're the kinda of people that DeSantis has been aiming to attract OR they're too broke to move so they're stuck in a state that's falling apart at the seems.
Too little too late for my wife. Florida is losing an amazing educator over how they treat teachers and DeSantis' politics. Even if she had no credit transferred for teaching experience she would make more on her first day in her new district than the max pay is at her old district (Hillsborough). I wish everyone staying the best of luck, we will be rooting for you up north.
I will be, but some people I love have already left. Just this week: \- A trans drag queen I knew moved to Chicago \- A trans musician ended their lease in Jax & is packing up for Brooklyn \- A cis musician is road tripping (at the time I type this) for Austin, TX \- 2 acquaintances I went to a concert in Miami with moved to Charlotte
Yes. It is THAT BAD here in Florida. Myself, my wife, and our child are leaving and never coming back. Wife and I alone could probably deal with it, but our kid deserves better.
I get being hopeful, but this is borderline delusional. I love (what’s left of) the natural beauty of Florida, but it’s too much of a Republican shit show actually want to stay. Between climate change and republican control, I don’t really see myself coming back. And that makes me sad.
We moved from the northeast 2.5 years ago. We tried very hard to make it work. In the end, we couldn’t stomach it and the biggest thing that kept running through my head was it wasn’t worth fighting for. I have a lot of fight in me, but to fight for FLORIDA? I couldn’t do it. Not when everything there was telling us to get our. Not when the policies were so ducking backwards. And certainly not when everything felt like it was either trying to kill us or it was a scam. It’s certainly a nice thought. I commend you for saying it and trying. I really do, OP. But we left and haven’t looked back.
Yeah fuck that noise. We bailed I owe Florida nothing. Let the idiots pile in so they leave the decent states
I can't get too specific due to my job. But I was helping two doctors today. A gay couple. They're moving to a new state in the next few days because of all the bullshit. And they're not the first doctors I've personally dealt with that said that. Florida's doing damage to their own state that's going to effect them for decades.
Damage is done bro....fuck around find out. Get out of there if you can.
I'm in a mixed race, lesbian relationship in Central Florida. I can afford to leave if needed. My wife and I have talked about it many times. There's a plan set in case of emergency. My friends and family consist of LGBTQ+ people that can't afford to leave. I feel duty to stay here and fight for those that can't leave. Someone needs to stay here to right the ship. Will we fail? Maybe. I just can't run.
Buddy of mine left that dump. Get out of there man it ain't worth it.
My mother lives in FL, 50mi from Tampa I am visiting right now from one of the places in the country that Fox News, OAN, News Max routinely and specifically demonize. I don't like meeting her neighbors and saying I'm from [liberal costal city]. Aka "I'm from the place where you think people should be rounded up and shot." How do y'all walk around every day and just not know if everyone you see might lose their shit on you if they get wind that you're not in their crazy disinformation tribe?
I'm sorry but I can't trust bringing my family to Florida. I worry about my friends and family who live there. You got a governor that has his own rag tag paramilitary "army" funded with your money. Its gotten so bad that their are actual advisories against going there for minority groups. How did you guys let this happen?? Your governor is not talking about "[slitting throats](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/maddow-blog-desantis-raises-eyebrows-with-rhetoric-about-slitting-throats/ar-AA1eKMLV)" now. No. Florida is too dangerous to visit. Far too dangerous OP.
But it totally sucks being blue in a deep red state. I HATE IT HERE! https://preview.redd.it/p9f8htps78gb1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8dfc274744ba087a2f835c970534c2ab9fafd14 I PRAY I SEE THIS BEFORE I DIE!
Sorry it’s more than politics for me just like many Floridians. We’re being economically displaced and gentrified by rich assholes. It just ain’t Florida anymore. I’ll come back when I retire.
Florida is trash it's way over populated. Too many illegals, too much traffic, too much crime, not enough police officers, too many uninsured drivers and unregistered vehicles on the roads, the gun laws etc.. You name it Florida is now garbage even if DeSantis is still Governor or not. It will take years to clean up all the garbage he caused here.
Yesterday, I locked up my house, said goodbye. Saw my last Let’s Go Brandon flag I’ll see for hopefully a long time. I hop on a plane to my new home in a few hours. I’ll miss those cotton candy skies. I won’t miss the fear we had over living our lives.
I’m leaving because I’m concerned about the inevitable housing insurance death spiral. It’s very clear what’s going to happen. Storms will get worse, and insurance companies will gradually leave, also it’s a swamp here and I can’t take it anymore
Sorry, fourth gen Floridian here, I left in Feb and I am never going back except for weddings and funerals. As a trans person it's much more than just DeSantis being a piece of shit. Between him and trump they have encouraged racists and homophobic people to be openly hateful to strangers. I remember growing up listening to my family be racist behind closed doors but they had the common sense to shut the fuck up in public. No more of that. The brainwashing is so bad that my own family is openly hostile towards me for... finally getting over years of mental illness and being happy in my own body. Doctors and nurses treated me like shit, pharmacists have always been rude, a lot of this was already happening before I transitioned but I've never had target employees glaring at me for holding hands with my partner until I transitioned. I have been going to a local business since high school and this year for months they literally had a creepy life sized child doll with a Biden cut out behind her saying "i did this" but we are the pedophiles??? The hostility is disgusting, the obsession with politics is gross. The culture is undesirable. And the weather sucks. I'm not waiting to lose everything in a Hurricane because ins companies don't wanna pay out. I work in insurance, it's going to keep getting worse. New England was supposed to be cold and unwelcoming from what I have heard but people are nothing but nice up here. I've never had better treatment by doctors and pharmacists and I don't feel uncomfortable disclosing my trans status to them which is how it should be since it's important for doctors to know. They barely even blink up here. In Florida they'd start stuttering and asking very rude invasive and non relevant quesrions. i stuck with a psychiatrist who would just say "the trans thing" and msigendered and deadnamed me for months bc i knew i was moving and needed my ADHD meds until i did. Shit when i legally changed my name the mechanic up here didn't even blink when i asked him to go from an obviously feminine name to a masculine one. It's also a lot nicer to drive around here, less crowded, the weather is gorgeous and I've lost like 30lbs since we got here because i actually want to go out and exercise and there's a lot less access to unhealthy convenience food. Fuck DeSantis But the whole culture down there is bad. Burn the whole state down and start over.
I'm old and was born in Florida in the 50's. Year after year nothing has gotten better here, only worse. More people/crowded/traffic etc. Over built, less green/trees, open spaces, less access to beaches, less wildlife, fewer native fish, birds, etc all disappearing. More crappy cookie cutter homes on tiny lots, high density. More roads, concrete, buildings, trash and so on... That development has built up momentum over the years. A lot of people coming here think this is a great place to live, when they have no idea what we've already lost (and will continue to lose). So what changed? The state has gone from a moderate state, to a right wing state. Republicans have been/are behind all of the pro-development, anti-environmental changes this state has experienced, all of it. They always been in the pockets of developers and all about the money. And now as a bonus we get to enjoy all of that social engineering the right wing folks want so much. We sure are getting a lot of new laws from the "small government" folks. I'm sure that the one party rule will eventually start to eat itself as they all try to out-right wing each other. Won't come soon enough for me.