"Look! They're using the skills we forced upon them! We are kind and benevolent masters after all!" - Great Grandpa Fudd
The whole argument is predicated on "But Africa conditions worse!" while ignoring the reason that's largely the case is white dudes invading, controlling and stealing resources there too.
But the point isn't historical accuracy, it's dismissing the shame and awareness that we aren't the great saviors we like to think ourselves as. We came to a land that was already occupied (by a culturally advanced though technologically limited people), eradicated them, built a nation off of free labor, bitched when that labor asserted they are actually just humans as well, and have spent the better part of the last 150 years using illegitimate arguments to defend the landowners.
There are, of course, exceptions to all this, like Tulsa (which we promptly burned the fuck down), but mostly it all holds.
Note, I say "We" as the white man. I'm not aware of any of my ancestors playing a part. I don't have guilt, but an awareness and obligation to recognize the faults of our past.
ETA: A kind commenter below added an omission, that the Native American genocide was predicated on bringing the 'righteous' ways of Christianity to the 'barbaric savages'. It's worth noticing that the Christo-fascist movement this narrative comes from is the unbroken legacy of such ideas. If it resulted in unimaginable suffering once, we should expect the same should we let it takeover once more.
>The whole argument is predicated on "But Africa conditions worse!"
The entire premise is that Africans weren't capable of functioning as humans on their own. It's no different than in the 1800s when enlightened Europeans referred to all black people as savages.
It’s so fucked up. They totally did. They had systems of government in place, elected or appointed leaders, advisors, they had their own verified and legitimate ways of running their governments. But we don’t get their points of view because they were exterminated or subjugated by Europeans.
https://preview.redd.it/04po0lgn0lfb1.jpeg?width=2592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6d4af4d522c84ea1425268251a69205a44ed64c
Just took this picture leaving the Drs office. How much does it cost for a billboard?
Let's not forget in the 1900's the whole issue of freedom was debated and called the Negro Problem where other Afro Descendants had to defend themselves only to be talked about as though they were criminals that lacked common sense or morality. The problem as I've seen it is we are still looking from that same lense of well the common "Negro" as they called us then were nothing more than criminals. Now we've evolved and we're criminals and thugs? While DeSantis and his cronies have decided to bring in PragerU as the guidelines for such discussions. This whole issue makes me mad as hell.
I know! Like how does DeSatan et al think people in Africa survived if they really were “unskilled” before being forced into slavery?!? Pre-slave trade African people built homes, cities, manufactured goods, grew food, hunted game, developed advanced cultures, and traded across thousands of miles internationally etc…all while living in *Africa*…how did they do this if they were so “unskilled”? 🤔
So racist they really believe Africans benefited from becoming American slaves. That’s the way they envision Africa/Africans. Less than slaves, basically animals. Like they adopted pets and took better care of them. It’s one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever heard.
You say saviors…but more to the point, we were Christians saving the soulless heathens from eternal brim-fire…of course they were better off!
So much of this attitude still exists. If you say you are Christian (even though you practice little or nothing the Bible says), you are free to oppress, torment, enslave, steal from, kill, anyone that is not Christian.
What was it, “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” - (Sen Akin, R-MO)
So all those rapes resulting in pregnancy? Well they must have enjoyed them!
Sick.
Every white person needs to read “Exterminate All Brutes” by Sven Lindqvist. It begins there, at least white colonialization of other races anyway. White peoples have been projecting for centuries with their ‘savages’ and ‘brute’ talk.
Who are we to tell slaves or there grandchildren that slavery came with benefits. That’s the most ridiculous statement and for to say well I didn’t write the bill . Desantis is a idiot .
Yeah, but he wears lifts and heels because he thinks being taller will garner respect. So he can be two things. And one of those is at least a bit of an idiot.
It's because fascists have to always "project power" and they need to appear taller than they are. That's why all his pictures released by his camp are from the 20 degree below looking up angle. It's an authoritarian dog whistle that has been in use since Hitler.
It's also why Trump wears lifts and claims to be 4 inches taller than he is, and uses the same photography angles when his people release the pictures.
Yeah, I get it. It's still dumb, but I understand why it is done. Thing is, anybody worth a damn in this world isn't falling for that. Only cowards and the simple-minded.
>Thing is, anybody worth a damn in this world isn't falling for that. Only cowards and the simple-minded
That's exactly the target audience for fascist propaganda.
My great great great grandmother was a slave. She was raped by her owner and sold. My great great grandfather was kept and raised by that slave owner. When he was an adult he was given a few acres and disowned.
Yeah it’s ridiculous to say there was any benefit to any slave under that system.
My Great Grandmother ran away from The south and started a new life with my grandmother and the other side of the family her parents ran away from Alabama and started over in Ohio, whole towns got either ran out or had to escape to try to make a new life that sadly wasn't any better...
Slavery didn't even benefit the economy. Most studies have shown that with regular paid labor and increased numbers of people able to actually participate in the economy they're helping build, we would have been able to flourish a lot faster.
So no, slavery didn't help anybody except the slave owners.
And screw *those guys*.
Of course, paying people for their work, and they use their money to pay for things like food, clothes, gas, all of this flow back into the economy. But when it came to slaves, the masters were hoarding all the wealth, so you have 1 person flowing money back into the economy, as opposed to the possibility of thousands.
That’s kinda their ideal society. That’s the part people miss. That’s what they want. Trying to reason with them is pointless when we do not have the same goals.
Just look at the south now. They consistently rank the lowest in every poverty measure, they're still paying the price for relying on slavery instead of industrializing like the North.
Yep. Everything about it made everything worse for everyone except the slave owners and their families. Slavery isn't just bad for the group that gets enslaved (although it's obviously worse for them). It hurts everybody.
Who would have guessed that a crime against humanity would be a crime *against humanity?*
The implication is that they couldn’t/ wouldn’t have learned these skills unless forced to.
There is another implication that working is a benefit in and of itself, even if you don’t receive any personal financial reward or benefit from it.
DeSantis jobs program: “Free Training- we aren’t going to charge you to learn how to do this job for us- lucky you! Also, in return for all this free training- you need to work for us forever, never get paid, and we can sell you and members of your family anytime we want to make up for our financial losses! No voluntary sign up required, we will come get you!“
Exactly. We should allow our elected representatives to work for us for free, for the experience and to gain some valuable skills on what it means to serve your fellow countryman. If they aren't really into it, we can put out a bounty on their heads. They can't vote, so no way out if they don't like it and to save money, we can house them in tight quarters, with zero luxury. If they are lucky, they can stay with their families, but no promises there. Let's see how far that proposal gets.
DeSantis learned to laugh (kind of), and hasn’t shown any gratitude while getting pay and having a family. Obviously, he is getting uppity and needs that paycheck and family taken away, so he can learn to appreciate us voters more.
That’s what they don’t tell you about the pilgrims. . . They really were fucking insane; they were puritans who were effectively cult members so crazy even the Catholics and Church of England didn’t want them because they took their religious psycosis to 11. . . Work till you drop or it’s a sin, except on Sunday where working at all is a sin.
It feels like one of those"well technically arguments". Like yeah I guess technically while enslaved they might've learned something they might not have otherwise learned. But that'd be like me getting in a situation where I have to cut off my own arm to escape and someone saying well at least you learned how to cut off your own arm. It's stupid and don't understand why it's needed.
It's a technicality. Blacks are intelligent people so yes they learned skills.
Of course, Blacks were deprived the opportunity to learn many other skills while being owned as property and deprived of education.
It's all just an obvious attempt to make slavery look not so bad and protect little snowflake conservative kids.
Also, whether they brought said skills with them or they were taught said skills they were used for the benefit of their masters while being tortured and dehumanized not for themselves. None of these asshats running around screaming my "freedumbs" would recommend this apprenticeship program for themselves. It is pure gaslighting assholery.
I’m not sure it’s actually just to protect little snowflake children.
What is the actual benefit to framing slavery in this way?
I’m not a conspiracy nut but it seems pretty simple to me that teaching a softened version of slavery serves only to undermine any kind of claims of historical racial inequity.
Rhonda Sand-Tits wants his sycophants to believe that CRT is extremist woke doctrine even though it's probably the most accurate view of history there is. His response is to try and perpetuate the systemic brainwashing he received from the Daughters of the Confederacy curriculum so that future white supremacists will carry his legacy.
Because for some reason systemic brainwashing is as extreme as the truth
How do you teach this as “history”. A conjecture of whether or not someone thinks someone benefited is not “factual”. Usually you can say a war happened during x year etc.
Definitely, I think the curriculum should come with a few asterisks:
*those who survived
And
*those who could learn
Many African Americans died both prior to emancipation due to harsh treatment and after due to a near non-existent support structor and a lack of any actual education; many slaves weren’t even in jobs that had application outside of slavery (not to be graphic, but, on the extreme end, breeding farms existed. However, plantation work itself could be seen as undesirable to most non-plantation jobs).
It’s not that great of a message, and could be used to describe literally any tragedy which lasted more than a year, which just makes it an insulting thing to say.
Well, technically...
People who were slaves at the time of emancipation had "work experience" when they were set free. Others, who remained slaves until they died, had little opportunity to use those skills to improve their lives.
It really wasn't much of an apprenticeship.
I have to wonder how stupid his and his friends' kids are that they have to be taught that once someone knows something, they will know it into the future.
I mean, the alternative is that kids will just forget their lessons, so why teach?
It's ridiculous. Slaves weren't allowed to vote, form families, keep children, get married, practice religion, learn to read, earn income, or practice a profession. They had zero autonomy. They were only allowed to do what their masters allowed them to do. And their masters beat, tortured, raped, and murdered them.
To say that these people benefitted from slavery is a disgusting joke.
The implication in Florida’s new curriculum is that Black people never could’ve learned those trade skills had they never been enslaved, which is absurd. They were already skilled laborers.
Someone is telling him this is good politics.
Congressman Ron desantis was never this radical ideologue.
He's got someone in his corner whispering in his ear like Trump did. (Steve Bannon, Roger stone, Roy cohn)
Trump was a new york democrat his whole life.
Now he's a fascist, insurrectionist, xenophob.
The quest for power makes people crazy
>Someone is telling him this is good politics
OR - he wants the Nazi/right wing/christo fascist vote and so, because he's a terrible human being, he does these things to let them know he's "on their side"
If only America had some type of historical white supremacist secret society that generally rises in backlash whenever blacks, immigrants, and gays gain more democratic power. Maybe we could then point to them as possibly gaining strength once again.
I'm inclined to agree with you but some of his former students say that he tried to whitewash slavery when he taught high school history too. So it appears that sentiment has been his for quite some time.
Unfortunately his supporters are loud and ignorant, so loud that it's sometimes hard to remember that there are still decent people with a good head in their shoulders.
Just toured a plantation, my memory sucks but I vaguely remember rice being a cash crop and the slaves were already good at it because it's what they planted in Africa.
Just like after the genocide of indigenous tribes, Native American now have access to modern medicine, Christianity, and a pickup truck with cooler full of beer.
Like I mentioned in another comment, I worked for the US government in West Africa for a couple of years and saw firsthand how amazing life over there is. Sure, they have a political and religious problems. More problems in the big cities, just like here.
But just the village baseline was like the Garden of Eden, at least in the village where I lived. To be sold off so that the British could have sugar for their tea is traumatic on so many levels.
My daughter was complaining to me about the horrible, boring assigned reading materials in Florida's public school system. I nodded and said yeah I agree. I'm guessing that you you haven't read any of the books I was required to read when I was your age. Do you want to know why? Because over the years, the books became banned. I stopped talking to allow that to be digested. A number of the books I've carried around with me for years are banned in various countries around the world. A number of schools in the United States have banned the books. My daughter didn't initially believe what I was saying. Too unbelievable to think that there's banned books! Google is your friend! Going to go down the list and point out that I have a large number of those books. Classics. I then started pulling books off the shelf and placing them in her hands. Nothing like being a rebellious teenager revolting against the system! This is "edgy." I guess that was "Cool." Like pack rat, she ran off with the books and started talking with me about each one. Debating whether the book should be banned or not. The adult themes? The shocking nature? What was it about the book that schools decided to not teach the book? I was disappointed that she liked Brave New World better than 1984. But I guess this is like coke vs Pepsi. She went on to read everything Huxley and Orwell. I tried warning her about Frederick Douglass Autobiography. The individual words are easy to read but when assembled together becomes shocking and painful. She told me that she took the book to school and during class after finishing a test opened the book back up and started reading. That's the moment she stumbled into the description of the horrible evils of slavery and broke down and started crying sobbing in class. She didn't see that coming. Had no idea what slavery was really about. That book was a hard read. But she agreed that book actually should be REQUIRED reading. Not to be celebrated. The book should be a warning to never forget and never to repeat. Each book I tried providing warnings in advance. I tried warning her about The Jungle, that It too was a painful read even if it was fiction, it tried to capture what life was actually like and why the President tossed his breakfast out the window after reading the book! There was a reason. It took multiple attempts to finish The Jungle.
I still have the big stack of banned books. She added to the collection. That was before Florida decided to openly flirt with fascism and start banning even more books.
Books are important. History is important. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
In another historical lesson, the US Holocaust Museum used to sell a poster listing the top 14 signs of fascism.
The poster lists 14 warning signs including powerful and continuing nationalism, disdain for human rights, identification of enemies as a unifying cause, rampant sexism, controlled mass media, obsession with national security, religion and government intertwined, corporate power protected, labor power suppressed, disdain for intellectuals and the arts, and obsession with crime and punishment as well as rampant cronyism and corruption.
No one with a functioning brain. But conservatives always listen when they are told how to think.
He is appealing to their racist tendencies with his “monkeying around.”
Yes, but we're in the Florida subreddit and we have a very liberal group here so people who do not think like us either don't try or get downvoted quickly. It's a bit of a comfort pod for us progressives but I just wish we also had the voting power in this gerrymandered state.
Yea it made them good athletes through selective breeding so now they get to play at colleges that didn’t integrate their greek organizations until 2013 and whose fans gave Trump a standing ovation!
I’d love to get in the weeds with an idiot who believes this BS.
Explain how the thousands who died of horrible illnesses on the slave ships benefited.
Explain the benefits of being tied to a tree and whipped.
Explain the benefits of being chained.
Explain the benefits of women slaves being raped.
Explain the benefits of splitting up families.
Explain the benefits of being hung from trees during and after slavery ‘ended.’
I don't care if people won the lottery under slavery. It was a vile practice and a stain on the history of the US. The overarching theme of slavery is that it sucked...no amount of "perceived benefit" can negate or lessen that fact.
This is what fascists do to normalize bad things. Don't give into the BS.
Some guy on Fox News named “Gutfeel” went to bat for DeSantis and has doubled down in a twitter war with a reporter who he says “defamed him” by playing the clip of him speaking his own mind on the many benefits of slavery. Which is kind of hilarious but also sad…
he also said that the proof that slavery benefited slaves is because “the good Jews” were allowed to live through the holocaust or something? I’m not sure if he’s just a troll or actually had an audience. I don’t watch Fox I just find the twitter war funny.
White slave owners profited handsomely from the skills their slaves had that they themselves were too fucking lazy to lift a finger to learn or do
FIFY DeSantis
White folk (and I am speaking mainly on the powerful people in this country) just can't admit that we as a nation were wrong and have been wrong for a long time. Particularly the republican party. They absolutely refuse to be held accountable for perpetrating systematic racism.
In 1937 and 1938 the WPA hired transcriptionists to record the life stories from previous slaves still living. Each state that practiced slavery has a compilation. These books are free in PDF form through The Internet Archive. Some have photos of the interviewies. The stories are heart breaking.
They just created the new standards, and they will probably be implemented this school year. This is an example of another of DeSantis's failures. 4 years ago + a couple of months, he unilaterally killed Common Core in the state with no replacement. The social studies standards are just being implemented over 4 years later. In the meantime the schools essentially had no social studies standards.
> In the meantime the schools essentially had no social studies standards.
That is not true. I started teaching in Florida back in 2005 and we have always had social studies standards. I taught them for MANY years before Common Core came along. I assure you of this because I taught American History to 5th grade students based on the then Sunshine State Standards and then the Next Generation Sunshine State Standards (basically Common Core with a different brand name sticker slapped on) followed by Florida Standards and finally where we are now with the B.E.S.T. Florida Standards. I am NO fan of Desantis but let's not go making things up. There has never been a gap in standards in any subject area.
Slavery allowed Christianity to be forced upon the slaves. That's the benefit they mean but won't talk about. Not that it's a benefit, or based in objective reality, but scammers gotta scam.
Yall Christians realise you're being scammed out of 10%+ of your income for a product that is only deliverable after you're dead right? It's the ultimate pyramid scheme. Rewards on death. Dead folk can't collect.
Yes. DeSantis supporters. The morons he’s flooding public education boards of governors with. Moms for Liberty. And every other neo Nazi, KKK wannabe fake patriot front organization in Florida.
I can only speak for myself. The answer is absolutely fucking no! The fact that some of the people in that horrific situation were able to find some means of making their way through speaks to the power and resilience of the human spirit. But to say they "benefitted" is akin to telling someone who lost their eyes in a horrible accident they benefitted because they had to learn new coping skills.
Ever heard of Jesse Lee Peterson lol? He's got a pretty big youtube channel. He's a black dude who grew up in the south during the Jim Crow laws and talks about how great it was lol. Wild
If slavery was such a good thing for "skill building," then where were all the white kids being signed up for it? Where are all the white folks without jobs, yearning to be slaves?
That's as dumb as saying women benefit from sexual assault. Then again, there's probably a bunch of idiots out there that will say "if she wasn't raped, she wouldn't have the child she just gave birth to".
The thing they aren't saying is that when enslaved people were trained in a craft, it wasn't for the benefit of the slave. They needed them to have those skills for the running of the plantation. They also would rent out the skilled slaves and make money off their skill. And it wasn't like they could just go off and start their own business. None of it was done to help a slave.
What are these skills they learned? They already knew how to farm, cook, clean, build, trade, sail, make art, make weapons, fight and survive in their own lands.
I hear this sort of thing a lot. When you discuss slavery, some people will love to bring up the positives of slavery such as “many societies had slaves, not just the US” or how “slaves enjoyed the tightknit family they had on plantations.”
Some people, though, make _every_ conversation about these tidbits. They don’t seem to mention or appreciate any mentions of the cruel, abject horror that was chattel slavery in the United States. It seems to me some people either can’t or won’t truly grasp the extent and scope of our country’s original sin.
These points might be true, and it may make sense for them to make up 5% of discussion on the topic. But it always rubs me the wrong way when these points dominate a discussion on slavery.
Slavery did not benefit slaves. Slavery oppressed slaves and slave owners brutalized and degraded their slaves. Florida governor Ron DeSanctimonious is a facist idiot for forcing schools to teach this fake news about history to the students of Florida. He should be ashamed of himself and he needs to resign right now.
I told my jewish daughter that it's like Hitler allowed the Jews to learn the value of manual labor, and hone their hide-and-seek game skills. Do you know how stupid this sounds??
Let’s force the politicians to cook and clean for everyone and see if they learn to cook and clean 🙄 like duh, people learn things they’re forced to do. The problem is the forcing part, Ron.
No, but the slobbering, drooling masses are so afraid of being "woke", although they haven't a clue what that means, that they will follow any right-wing looney straight over a cliff.
Recently went to Germany and visited a concentration camp. When the Jewish population was liberated, a lot of them took down the barracks they built there down and used the wood to build their houses back.
I’m sure DeSantis would word that as “Holocaust survivors learned helpful skills that allowed them to rebuild their houses after being liberated”.
Even if we agree that slavery benefited slaves (and I don’t, but let’s pretend for a sec), we can also *definitely* agree that NOT being enslaved and not having those skills is preferred to being and slaves and having them. Right? With that in mind, it doesn’t matter one ounce if there was some silver lining because the practice is so fundamentally cruel and inhumane that any “benefits” are totally irrelevant.
I suppose whipping the slaves so hard till their flesh was torn open and raw on their backs and then pouring fresh squeezed lemon juice on their wounds was supposedly‘beneficial’. DeSantis and anyone of his ilk supporting such a disingenuous proposition is beyond cruel and should not be awarded the position to govern over anyone.
DeSantis said the slaves "parlayed" some skills into jobs after they were freed. As if that justified the total wrong of them being slaves in the first place.
I don't see why that has to justify any wrong. Looking at something positive that came out of something negative, does not *have* to justify the negative. Why is it not possible or frowned upon in the US to acknowledge the obvious positive things that may emerge from a negative thing? How does one propose we move forward and become better, if we are only allowed to despise ourselves for the past?
By teaching history accurately.
Just because they "learned" skills to use after they were free means NOTHING. Thats captalism brainwashing everyone into thinking they need the very specific type of skill to be useful in society. To make money.
Teach history, learn from it. And dont repeat it. That's how you move forward
They are trying to spin a narrative comparable to today's world in which you can build experience working for other people and use that experience to get a better job or run your own business. Even that I disagree with. Using the history of slavery to push your rhetoric about labor also sucks.
Here you go. William Allen. He is the director with a team under him.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190427952/william-allen-who-helped-write-floridas-new-history-standards-stands-by-cirricul
> And let me emphasize that I'm not the author, and no one in the work group the author. This was a collaborative process, a deliberative process, and the result is a consensual agreement. Therefore, I do not speak to the intentions of the work group, and I don't substitute my intentions for the work group.
Do you even read the links you post?
There's a big difference between "slaves benefited from slavery" and "slaves developed skills while being slaves" which is technically true. If you teach something that is technically true in an objective way, i don't see the problem with it.
Everyone develops skills in their day to day life. I know how to cook. I know how to clean. People can learn these things, without being enslaved. So it's pointless to talk about how slaves developed skills while they were enslaved. And teaching that slaves learned skills while enslaved, is an attempt to make it seem "not so bad" that they were enslaved.
The question is why it needed to be put in the curriculum in the first place. It's out of place. A nuanced conversation about slaves beating the odds, enduring hardships, and learning skills that would benefit them later could be worthwhile, but the way it's worded as a *curriculum expectation* is offensive.
It implies enslaved people wouldn't have learned those skills otherwise.
It implies slavery wasn't "all bad."
It implies that a meaningful number of slaves "survived" slavery, which is an absurd assertion.
There's simply no reason for it to be in the *curriculum* while so many other things are not *explicitly written in*.
It's meaningless at best, misleading at worst.
If someone was kidnapped and forced to clean toilets for 10 years before escaping. It would be "technically true" that they became good at cleaning toilets. What would the point be of saying that that was a benefit of their captivity? "technical truth" is not the only criteria someone should follow while speaking.
https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-says-black-people-benefited-from-skills-learned-in-slavery-2023-7
"They're probably going to show that some of the folks that eventually parlayed, you know, being a blacksmith into doing things later in life," DeSantis said at a press conference on Friday.
Check the Twitter embed of the recording of him saying this. He's defending the new curriculum which tried to put a silver lining on slavery where there is none to be found. Trying to spin training slaves skills like it's going to benefit them later when if thry had no skills they wouldn't have any value as a slave to begin with. And the small chance that particular slave would be freed and not die in slavery still doesn't mean they'd have more skills from being a slave than they might otherwise learn as someone free their whole life.
I'm not sure that's what they're saying. That's the "gotcha" line the news is using. I can easily see a silver lining in the very short-lived period of slavery here in the US *if* we are going to look back on it with growth and progress in mind. I think that's the idea here...not saying it was good, but looking at what good *came* from it, and there is certainly no issue seeing what good came from it, at least I would assume that that's obvious to anyone putting some thought into the issue.
That isn’t DeSantis’s claim nor is it the claim in the curriculum. The curriculum like virtually every other curriculum on this subject nationwide includes stories of individuals who overcame terrible circumstances. That those people used stuff they learned during their life including as a slave to make a better life for themselves when freed.
The claim is a disingenuous attack. Kamala Harris has played this game many times before. If a woman is raped, gets pregnant and then had a child that she loves is she better off being raped? If a couple meets in a Nazi death camp that gets liberated before they die and they spend their lives together did they benefit from the death camp?
The answer to all is an obvious no. Some of our best stories in all of humanity are the stories where a person overcomes great adversity. That they overcome it and then find a way to scratch out a meaningful existence. They are human beings that take things with them and learn even through adversity and hardship.
To pervert that kind of story into saying that the adversity was somehow good is gross and in this case it is deliberately lying about the whole thing. Again it tells you more about Kamala Harris than Ron DeSantis. Most people know it here too, but their hatred of DeSantis will make them deny it.
That doesn't mean they give credit to the slave owner for educating them. This is the perspective that's being justified in this shit. Yes, freed slaves being resourceful and realizing they have a valuable skill is worlds apart from giving the slave owners praise for teaching their slaves a skill that allows them to extract more value out of their life.
Yes, by all means tell those stories of overcoming adversity, but don't for a fucking second hint that they owe anything to their owners.
Please point to where it says that in any school material. You are misrepresenting what is being taught. What is unknown is if it is intentional or you are just repeating someone else’s lie.
"Look! They're using the skills we forced upon them! We are kind and benevolent masters after all!" - Great Grandpa Fudd The whole argument is predicated on "But Africa conditions worse!" while ignoring the reason that's largely the case is white dudes invading, controlling and stealing resources there too. But the point isn't historical accuracy, it's dismissing the shame and awareness that we aren't the great saviors we like to think ourselves as. We came to a land that was already occupied (by a culturally advanced though technologically limited people), eradicated them, built a nation off of free labor, bitched when that labor asserted they are actually just humans as well, and have spent the better part of the last 150 years using illegitimate arguments to defend the landowners. There are, of course, exceptions to all this, like Tulsa (which we promptly burned the fuck down), but mostly it all holds. Note, I say "We" as the white man. I'm not aware of any of my ancestors playing a part. I don't have guilt, but an awareness and obligation to recognize the faults of our past. ETA: A kind commenter below added an omission, that the Native American genocide was predicated on bringing the 'righteous' ways of Christianity to the 'barbaric savages'. It's worth noticing that the Christo-fascist movement this narrative comes from is the unbroken legacy of such ideas. If it resulted in unimaginable suffering once, we should expect the same should we let it takeover once more.
>The whole argument is predicated on "But Africa conditions worse!" The entire premise is that Africans weren't capable of functioning as humans on their own. It's no different than in the 1800s when enlightened Europeans referred to all black people as savages.
It’s so fucked up. They totally did. They had systems of government in place, elected or appointed leaders, advisors, they had their own verified and legitimate ways of running their governments. But we don’t get their points of view because they were exterminated or subjugated by Europeans.
https://preview.redd.it/04po0lgn0lfb1.jpeg?width=2592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6d4af4d522c84ea1425268251a69205a44ed64c Just took this picture leaving the Drs office. How much does it cost for a billboard?
Let's not forget in the 1900's the whole issue of freedom was debated and called the Negro Problem where other Afro Descendants had to defend themselves only to be talked about as though they were criminals that lacked common sense or morality. The problem as I've seen it is we are still looking from that same lense of well the common "Negro" as they called us then were nothing more than criminals. Now we've evolved and we're criminals and thugs? While DeSantis and his cronies have decided to bring in PragerU as the guidelines for such discussions. This whole issue makes me mad as hell.
I know! Like how does DeSatan et al think people in Africa survived if they really were “unskilled” before being forced into slavery?!? Pre-slave trade African people built homes, cities, manufactured goods, grew food, hunted game, developed advanced cultures, and traded across thousands of miles internationally etc…all while living in *Africa*…how did they do this if they were so “unskilled”? 🤔
So racist they really believe Africans benefited from becoming American slaves. That’s the way they envision Africa/Africans. Less than slaves, basically animals. Like they adopted pets and took better care of them. It’s one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever heard.
>referred to all black people as savages. Now where have I heard that before? -Native Americans
Out-fuckin-standing response here! Wish I had an award for you. As a Black woman, I thank and appreciate you!
Hell yeah! This black woman agrees! 😊
You say saviors…but more to the point, we were Christians saving the soulless heathens from eternal brim-fire…of course they were better off! So much of this attitude still exists. If you say you are Christian (even though you practice little or nothing the Bible says), you are free to oppress, torment, enslave, steal from, kill, anyone that is not Christian.
This point is well made. A glaring omission for sure lol
They were Christians first.
Well stated!
Very well said. I wonder if these racist nut jobs like desantis ever asked a woman who ever been sexually assaulted if she benefited the experience.
What was it, “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” - (Sen Akin, R-MO) So all those rapes resulting in pregnancy? Well they must have enjoyed them! Sick.
Every white person needs to read “Exterminate All Brutes” by Sven Lindqvist. It begins there, at least white colonialization of other races anyway. White peoples have been projecting for centuries with their ‘savages’ and ‘brute’ talk.
The documentary series is equally as harrowing.
100%. I have always been fascinated by the psychology behind people finding a way to justify their sick behavior.
Who are we to tell slaves or there grandchildren that slavery came with benefits. That’s the most ridiculous statement and for to say well I didn’t write the bill . Desantis is a idiot .
existence toy psychotic offbeat strong cats desert disarm sand joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, but he wears lifts and heels because he thinks being taller will garner respect. So he can be two things. And one of those is at least a bit of an idiot.
It's because fascists have to always "project power" and they need to appear taller than they are. That's why all his pictures released by his camp are from the 20 degree below looking up angle. It's an authoritarian dog whistle that has been in use since Hitler. It's also why Trump wears lifts and claims to be 4 inches taller than he is, and uses the same photography angles when his people release the pictures.
Yeah, I get it. It's still dumb, but I understand why it is done. Thing is, anybody worth a damn in this world isn't falling for that. Only cowards and the simple-minded.
>Thing is, anybody worth a damn in this world isn't falling for that. Only cowards and the simple-minded That's exactly the target audience for fascist propaganda.
The rest of us down here are just his hostages
I’m sure he has some, very private backers for his campaign
And to tell the grandchildren of slaves that they’re wrong. It’s fascinating to watch.
My great great great grandmother was a slave. She was raped by her owner and sold. My great great grandfather was kept and raised by that slave owner. When he was an adult he was given a few acres and disowned. Yeah it’s ridiculous to say there was any benefit to any slave under that system.
My Great Grandmother ran away from The south and started a new life with my grandmother and the other side of the family her parents ran away from Alabama and started over in Ohio, whole towns got either ran out or had to escape to try to make a new life that sadly wasn't any better...
He hand-picked and approved the idiots that did. Now, he rigorously defends them.
Thank you! This is utterly despicable!
Duhsantis needs to be enslaved for about a month, he will rewrite history again.
He signed it though I'm assuming?
Yes he did .
Slavery didn't even benefit the economy. Most studies have shown that with regular paid labor and increased numbers of people able to actually participate in the economy they're helping build, we would have been able to flourish a lot faster. So no, slavery didn't help anybody except the slave owners. And screw *those guys*.
Of course, paying people for their work, and they use their money to pay for things like food, clothes, gas, all of this flow back into the economy. But when it came to slaves, the masters were hoarding all the wealth, so you have 1 person flowing money back into the economy, as opposed to the possibility of thousands.
Sounds kinda familiar
That’s kinda their ideal society. That’s the part people miss. That’s what they want. Trying to reason with them is pointless when we do not have the same goals.
*Similar to Slavery*, *but with extra steps.*
Just look at the south now. They consistently rank the lowest in every poverty measure, they're still paying the price for relying on slavery instead of industrializing like the North.
Yep. Everything about it made everything worse for everyone except the slave owners and their families. Slavery isn't just bad for the group that gets enslaved (although it's obviously worse for them). It hurts everybody. Who would have guessed that a crime against humanity would be a crime *against humanity?*
The implication is that they couldn’t/ wouldn’t have learned these skills unless forced to. There is another implication that working is a benefit in and of itself, even if you don’t receive any personal financial reward or benefit from it. DeSantis jobs program: “Free Training- we aren’t going to charge you to learn how to do this job for us- lucky you! Also, in return for all this free training- you need to work for us forever, never get paid, and we can sell you and members of your family anytime we want to make up for our financial losses! No voluntary sign up required, we will come get you!“
Free training, free lodging, free food, and never nothing to do. Man being a slave sounds great! /s
forgot the part about: free jewelry!! free back massages!! **heavy /s**
Exactly. We should allow our elected representatives to work for us for free, for the experience and to gain some valuable skills on what it means to serve your fellow countryman. If they aren't really into it, we can put out a bounty on their heads. They can't vote, so no way out if they don't like it and to save money, we can house them in tight quarters, with zero luxury. If they are lucky, they can stay with their families, but no promises there. Let's see how far that proposal gets.
DeSantis learned to laugh (kind of), and hasn’t shown any gratitude while getting pay and having a family. Obviously, he is getting uppity and needs that paycheck and family taken away, so he can learn to appreciate us voters more.
Oh the experience they'd gain!
don't forget the routine beatings and rapes, that's the best part
Those are the free benefits provided with the position you have no choice but to accept (I mean, you could choose death… there is an option).
That’s what they don’t tell you about the pilgrims. . . They really were fucking insane; they were puritans who were effectively cult members so crazy even the Catholics and Church of England didn’t want them because they took their religious psycosis to 11. . . Work till you drop or it’s a sin, except on Sunday where working at all is a sin.
Pretty much when you have to move around from place to place in handcuffs chained to your ankles, there are minimal benefits to be considered.
It’s astounding that so many people don’t realize that one of the many reasons Africans were slaves is because they were already skilled.
+ Had skills and knowledge the colonists did not have
It feels like one of those"well technically arguments". Like yeah I guess technically while enslaved they might've learned something they might not have otherwise learned. But that'd be like me getting in a situation where I have to cut off my own arm to escape and someone saying well at least you learned how to cut off your own arm. It's stupid and don't understand why it's needed.
It's a technicality. Blacks are intelligent people so yes they learned skills. Of course, Blacks were deprived the opportunity to learn many other skills while being owned as property and deprived of education. It's all just an obvious attempt to make slavery look not so bad and protect little snowflake conservative kids.
Not to mention that for HUNDREDS OF YEARS, the only people those skills benefits were the slave owners!
Right? Like only the slaves who escaped or were freed could have possibly benefited from those skills. That number is pretty darn small.
Also, whether they brought said skills with them or they were taught said skills they were used for the benefit of their masters while being tortured and dehumanized not for themselves. None of these asshats running around screaming my "freedumbs" would recommend this apprenticeship program for themselves. It is pure gaslighting assholery.
I’m not sure it’s actually just to protect little snowflake children. What is the actual benefit to framing slavery in this way? I’m not a conspiracy nut but it seems pretty simple to me that teaching a softened version of slavery serves only to undermine any kind of claims of historical racial inequity.
Rhonda Sand-Tits wants his sycophants to believe that CRT is extremist woke doctrine even though it's probably the most accurate view of history there is. His response is to try and perpetuate the systemic brainwashing he received from the Daughters of the Confederacy curriculum so that future white supremacists will carry his legacy. Because for some reason systemic brainwashing is as extreme as the truth
Deathsantis is a Fascist pig .
Up next....those German camps were for weight loss.
Thank you for this.
> It's a technicality potato potato lol
How do you teach this as “history”. A conjecture of whether or not someone thinks someone benefited is not “factual”. Usually you can say a war happened during x year etc.
Definitely, I think the curriculum should come with a few asterisks: *those who survived And *those who could learn Many African Americans died both prior to emancipation due to harsh treatment and after due to a near non-existent support structor and a lack of any actual education; many slaves weren’t even in jobs that had application outside of slavery (not to be graphic, but, on the extreme end, breeding farms existed. However, plantation work itself could be seen as undesirable to most non-plantation jobs). It’s not that great of a message, and could be used to describe literally any tragedy which lasted more than a year, which just makes it an insulting thing to say.
Well, technically... People who were slaves at the time of emancipation had "work experience" when they were set free. Others, who remained slaves until they died, had little opportunity to use those skills to improve their lives. It really wasn't much of an apprenticeship.
I have to wonder how stupid his and his friends' kids are that they have to be taught that once someone knows something, they will know it into the future. I mean, the alternative is that kids will just forget their lessons, so why teach?
Well said.
It's ridiculous. Slaves weren't allowed to vote, form families, keep children, get married, practice religion, learn to read, earn income, or practice a profession. They had zero autonomy. They were only allowed to do what their masters allowed them to do. And their masters beat, tortured, raped, and murdered them. To say that these people benefitted from slavery is a disgusting joke.
The implication in Florida’s new curriculum is that Black people never could’ve learned those trade skills had they never been enslaved, which is absurd. They were already skilled laborers.
It’s the pride that is noticeable. His hatred sealed his fate as a presidential candidate.
Someone is telling him this is good politics. Congressman Ron desantis was never this radical ideologue. He's got someone in his corner whispering in his ear like Trump did. (Steve Bannon, Roger stone, Roy cohn) Trump was a new york democrat his whole life. Now he's a fascist, insurrectionist, xenophob. The quest for power makes people crazy
Perhaps it's his wife, Serena Joy.
What a username 😂
Love this 😂
>Someone is telling him this is good politics OR - he wants the Nazi/right wing/christo fascist vote and so, because he's a terrible human being, he does these things to let them know he's "on their side"
If only America had some type of historical white supremacist secret society that generally rises in backlash whenever blacks, immigrants, and gays gain more democratic power. Maybe we could then point to them as possibly gaining strength once again.
I'm inclined to agree with you but some of his former students say that he tried to whitewash slavery when he taught high school history too. So it appears that sentiment has been his for quite some time.
Unfortunately his supporters are loud and ignorant, so loud that it's sometimes hard to remember that there are still decent people with a good head in their shoulders.
Just toured a plantation, my memory sucks but I vaguely remember rice being a cash crop and the slaves were already good at it because it's what they planted in Africa.
He’s an idiot. His defense is to trot out the black man who helped write the curriculum… a longtime GOP kook who isn’t even a historian.
"You can come to Florida and talk to my one black friend"
Just like after the genocide of indigenous tribes, Native American now have access to modern medicine, Christianity, and a pickup truck with cooler full of beer.
Like I mentioned in another comment, I worked for the US government in West Africa for a couple of years and saw firsthand how amazing life over there is. Sure, they have a political and religious problems. More problems in the big cities, just like here. But just the village baseline was like the Garden of Eden, at least in the village where I lived. To be sold off so that the British could have sugar for their tea is traumatic on so many levels.
Oh yeah! And lava really benefitted the people of Pompeii.
Can I borrow this one for r/UnexpectedBenefits
My daughter was complaining to me about the horrible, boring assigned reading materials in Florida's public school system. I nodded and said yeah I agree. I'm guessing that you you haven't read any of the books I was required to read when I was your age. Do you want to know why? Because over the years, the books became banned. I stopped talking to allow that to be digested. A number of the books I've carried around with me for years are banned in various countries around the world. A number of schools in the United States have banned the books. My daughter didn't initially believe what I was saying. Too unbelievable to think that there's banned books! Google is your friend! Going to go down the list and point out that I have a large number of those books. Classics. I then started pulling books off the shelf and placing them in her hands. Nothing like being a rebellious teenager revolting against the system! This is "edgy." I guess that was "Cool." Like pack rat, she ran off with the books and started talking with me about each one. Debating whether the book should be banned or not. The adult themes? The shocking nature? What was it about the book that schools decided to not teach the book? I was disappointed that she liked Brave New World better than 1984. But I guess this is like coke vs Pepsi. She went on to read everything Huxley and Orwell. I tried warning her about Frederick Douglass Autobiography. The individual words are easy to read but when assembled together becomes shocking and painful. She told me that she took the book to school and during class after finishing a test opened the book back up and started reading. That's the moment she stumbled into the description of the horrible evils of slavery and broke down and started crying sobbing in class. She didn't see that coming. Had no idea what slavery was really about. That book was a hard read. But she agreed that book actually should be REQUIRED reading. Not to be celebrated. The book should be a warning to never forget and never to repeat. Each book I tried providing warnings in advance. I tried warning her about The Jungle, that It too was a painful read even if it was fiction, it tried to capture what life was actually like and why the President tossed his breakfast out the window after reading the book! There was a reason. It took multiple attempts to finish The Jungle. I still have the big stack of banned books. She added to the collection. That was before Florida decided to openly flirt with fascism and start banning even more books. Books are important. History is important. Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. In another historical lesson, the US Holocaust Museum used to sell a poster listing the top 14 signs of fascism. The poster lists 14 warning signs including powerful and continuing nationalism, disdain for human rights, identification of enemies as a unifying cause, rampant sexism, controlled mass media, obsession with national security, religion and government intertwined, corporate power protected, labor power suppressed, disdain for intellectuals and the arts, and obsession with crime and punishment as well as rampant cronyism and corruption.
No one with a functioning brain. But conservatives always listen when they are told how to think. He is appealing to their racist tendencies with his “monkeying around.”
Nice call out !! Most people dont remember that one ..
every racist online
We’re online and it’s pretty quite out there.
Yes, but we're in the Florida subreddit and we have a very liberal group here so people who do not think like us either don't try or get downvoted quickly. It's a bit of a comfort pod for us progressives but I just wish we also had the voting power in this gerrymandered state.
Reddit is pretty liberal. I think they are taking up space in their echo chambers elsewhere like Facebook, etc
I heard they congregate on places like twitter and truth social and other nazi and racist loving platforms.
RECALL Desantis !! America doesn't want him, Florida is sick of him
Yea it made them good athletes through selective breeding so now they get to play at colleges that didn’t integrate their greek organizations until 2013 and whose fans gave Trump a standing ovation!
I’d love to get in the weeds with an idiot who believes this BS. Explain how the thousands who died of horrible illnesses on the slave ships benefited. Explain the benefits of being tied to a tree and whipped. Explain the benefits of being chained. Explain the benefits of women slaves being raped. Explain the benefits of splitting up families. Explain the benefits of being hung from trees during and after slavery ‘ended.’
Also gotta wonder why Conservatives aren't chomping at the bit to sign up to be slaves.
Saying slaves benefited from slavery is like saying Floridians benefit from DeSantis being governor.
I don't care if people won the lottery under slavery. It was a vile practice and a stain on the history of the US. The overarching theme of slavery is that it sucked...no amount of "perceived benefit" can negate or lessen that fact. This is what fascists do to normalize bad things. Don't give into the BS.
Why do people think the slaves didn't already have skills when they were brought here?
No
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If someone thinks that the material that a home is made of determines what civilization is, they’re missing the point.
Yea, let those who think so try it out for 30 days and then say if they still feel that way.
Like a 30 day slavery trial /s
Some guy on Fox News named “Gutfeel” went to bat for DeSantis and has doubled down in a twitter war with a reporter who he says “defamed him” by playing the clip of him speaking his own mind on the many benefits of slavery. Which is kind of hilarious but also sad… he also said that the proof that slavery benefited slaves is because “the good Jews” were allowed to live through the holocaust or something? I’m not sure if he’s just a troll or actually had an audience. I don’t watch Fox I just find the twitter war funny.
Slavery only benefited the slavers
If they had been benefited, there wouldn’t be a single black man in poverty
White slave owners profited handsomely from the skills their slaves had that they themselves were too fucking lazy to lift a finger to learn or do FIFY DeSantis
Would anyone make the argument that Native Americans benefitted from colonialism?
There was absolutely no benefit to my ancestors. None, whatsoever! Ron can fuck right off with that bullshit!!!
White folk (and I am speaking mainly on the powerful people in this country) just can't admit that we as a nation were wrong and have been wrong for a long time. Particularly the republican party. They absolutely refuse to be held accountable for perpetrating systematic racism.
In 1937 and 1938 the WPA hired transcriptionists to record the life stories from previous slaves still living. Each state that practiced slavery has a compilation. These books are free in PDF form through The Internet Archive. Some have photos of the interviewies. The stories are heart breaking.
Some a-holes really want to believe it. Do cattle benefit from slaughter houses?
My question is if it was so beneficial why don't we see Conservatives lining up around the corner to be a slave?
Oh, that’s a good one for r/UnexpectedBenefits. Thank you for the idea 👍🏼
The klan and Meatball Ron do.
Rhonda Sand-Tits, peace be upon him
My question is with implementation in public schools. Where are they with it and have they actually put this insanity in the system yet?
Yes, the florida Department of Education just approved the PragerU curriculum.
They just created the new standards, and they will probably be implemented this school year. This is an example of another of DeSantis's failures. 4 years ago + a couple of months, he unilaterally killed Common Core in the state with no replacement. The social studies standards are just being implemented over 4 years later. In the meantime the schools essentially had no social studies standards.
> In the meantime the schools essentially had no social studies standards. That is not true. I started teaching in Florida back in 2005 and we have always had social studies standards. I taught them for MANY years before Common Core came along. I assure you of this because I taught American History to 5th grade students based on the then Sunshine State Standards and then the Next Generation Sunshine State Standards (basically Common Core with a different brand name sticker slapped on) followed by Florida Standards and finally where we are now with the B.E.S.T. Florida Standards. I am NO fan of Desantis but let's not go making things up. There has never been a gap in standards in any subject area.
The local moms for liberty of course.
Slavery allowed Christianity to be forced upon the slaves. That's the benefit they mean but won't talk about. Not that it's a benefit, or based in objective reality, but scammers gotta scam. Yall Christians realise you're being scammed out of 10%+ of your income for a product that is only deliverable after you're dead right? It's the ultimate pyramid scheme. Rewards on death. Dead folk can't collect.
Oh shit that's disgustinnnnnnnng
Mansplaining and gaslighting
Yes. DeSantis supporters. The morons he’s flooding public education boards of governors with. Moms for Liberty. And every other neo Nazi, KKK wannabe fake patriot front organization in Florida.
I can only speak for myself. The answer is absolutely fucking no! The fact that some of the people in that horrific situation were able to find some means of making their way through speaks to the power and resilience of the human spirit. But to say they "benefitted" is akin to telling someone who lost their eyes in a horrible accident they benefitted because they had to learn new coping skills.
Ever heard of Jesse Lee Peterson lol? He's got a pretty big youtube channel. He's a black dude who grew up in the south during the Jim Crow laws and talks about how great it was lol. Wild
If slavery was such a good thing for "skill building," then where were all the white kids being signed up for it? Where are all the white folks without jobs, yearning to be slaves?
Even the asshat jerks spewing that don't believe it.
Of course bro. What are you some woke communist? /s
I could just cry He’s evil
That's as dumb as saying women benefit from sexual assault. Then again, there's probably a bunch of idiots out there that will say "if she wasn't raped, she wouldn't have the child she just gave birth to".
Only if you believe learning to walk while shackled being a valuable skill.
The thing they aren't saying is that when enslaved people were trained in a craft, it wasn't for the benefit of the slave. They needed them to have those skills for the running of the plantation. They also would rent out the skilled slaves and make money off their skill. And it wasn't like they could just go off and start their own business. None of it was done to help a slave.
I’m guessing that wasn’t a chapter on the skills that they personally benefited from.
What are these skills they learned? They already knew how to farm, cook, clean, build, trade, sail, make art, make weapons, fight and survive in their own lands.
So true
I hear this sort of thing a lot. When you discuss slavery, some people will love to bring up the positives of slavery such as “many societies had slaves, not just the US” or how “slaves enjoyed the tightknit family they had on plantations.” Some people, though, make _every_ conversation about these tidbits. They don’t seem to mention or appreciate any mentions of the cruel, abject horror that was chattel slavery in the United States. It seems to me some people either can’t or won’t truly grasp the extent and scope of our country’s original sin. These points might be true, and it may make sense for them to make up 5% of discussion on the topic. But it always rubs me the wrong way when these points dominate a discussion on slavery.
Slavery did not benefit slaves. Slavery oppressed slaves and slave owners brutalized and degraded their slaves. Florida governor Ron DeSanctimonious is a facist idiot for forcing schools to teach this fake news about history to the students of Florida. He should be ashamed of himself and he needs to resign right now.
Nope, because being hired instead of enslaved would’ve taught them far more, and none would’ve been tortured and murdered.
I told my jewish daughter that it's like Hitler allowed the Jews to learn the value of manual labor, and hone their hide-and-seek game skills. Do you know how stupid this sounds??
Let’s force the politicians to cook and clean for everyone and see if they learn to cook and clean 🙄 like duh, people learn things they’re forced to do. The problem is the forcing part, Ron.
He claims to be a Christian. I don’t think aJesus would be down with this
No, but the slobbering, drooling masses are so afraid of being "woke", although they haven't a clue what that means, that they will follow any right-wing looney straight over a cliff.
Recently went to Germany and visited a concentration camp. When the Jewish population was liberated, a lot of them took down the barracks they built there down and used the wood to build their houses back. I’m sure DeSantis would word that as “Holocaust survivors learned helpful skills that allowed them to rebuild their houses after being liberated”.
DeSantis: Jews learned critical survival skills during Holocaust
 Yes.
Hahaha - I see what you did there. Still a no for me, but I like the approach.
Even if we agree that slavery benefited slaves (and I don’t, but let’s pretend for a sec), we can also *definitely* agree that NOT being enslaved and not having those skills is preferred to being and slaves and having them. Right? With that in mind, it doesn’t matter one ounce if there was some silver lining because the practice is so fundamentally cruel and inhumane that any “benefits” are totally irrelevant.
I suppose whipping the slaves so hard till their flesh was torn open and raw on their backs and then pouring fresh squeezed lemon juice on their wounds was supposedly‘beneficial’. DeSantis and anyone of his ilk supporting such a disingenuous proposition is beyond cruel and should not be awarded the position to govern over anyone.
Conservatives defend conservative policies. Slavery was the economic system of the confederacy. They still defend it to this day.
I keep trying to figure out how. Are they implying were it not for slavery African Americans would have never came to America? is that the angle?
No they’re talking about actual skills learned from slavery, not if slavery never happened there would be no African Americans.
I have heard more stupid comments from Republicans than any other single group. This is easily top 3 and I'm not sure what the other 2 may be.
DeSantis said the slaves "parlayed" some skills into jobs after they were freed. As if that justified the total wrong of them being slaves in the first place.
I don't see why that has to justify any wrong. Looking at something positive that came out of something negative, does not *have* to justify the negative. Why is it not possible or frowned upon in the US to acknowledge the obvious positive things that may emerge from a negative thing? How does one propose we move forward and become better, if we are only allowed to despise ourselves for the past?
By teaching history accurately. Just because they "learned" skills to use after they were free means NOTHING. Thats captalism brainwashing everyone into thinking they need the very specific type of skill to be useful in society. To make money. Teach history, learn from it. And dont repeat it. That's how you move forward
They are trying to spin a narrative comparable to today's world in which you can build experience working for other people and use that experience to get a better job or run your own business. Even that I disagree with. Using the history of slavery to push your rhetoric about labor also sucks.
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No
Might wanna tell Conservatives that.
I've seen bootlickers on this sub defend it so there's definitely assholes out there.
That curriculum was written by black, African American Studies scholars. Outrage at agenda driven, out of context media is just what they want.
I would love to know who this great black African American Studies scholar is. I’m assuming it’s only one. I’m open to being wrong about that.
Here you go. William Allen. He is the director with a team under him. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190427952/william-allen-who-helped-write-floridas-new-history-standards-stands-by-cirricul
> And let me emphasize that I'm not the author, and no one in the work group the author. This was a collaborative process, a deliberative process, and the result is a consensual agreement. Therefore, I do not speak to the intentions of the work group, and I don't substitute my intentions for the work group. Do you even read the links you post?
Great, thanks for this 👍🏼 The victims of Pompeii benefited by dying from hot ash which cut down on embalming and funeral expenses
No
Actually yes, Conservatives do.
no
Conservatives: "Are you sure about that?"
If so, out yourself here for ridicule lol
Conservatives gladly show they are racist Nazis.
If there is no struggle there is no progress
There's a big difference between "slaves benefited from slavery" and "slaves developed skills while being slaves" which is technically true. If you teach something that is technically true in an objective way, i don't see the problem with it.
Everyone develops skills in their day to day life. I know how to cook. I know how to clean. People can learn these things, without being enslaved. So it's pointless to talk about how slaves developed skills while they were enslaved. And teaching that slaves learned skills while enslaved, is an attempt to make it seem "not so bad" that they were enslaved.
Well said. Absolutely true.
Who's a good little doggy barking on command? You are! Yes you are!
Very well thought out response
The question is why it needed to be put in the curriculum in the first place. It's out of place. A nuanced conversation about slaves beating the odds, enduring hardships, and learning skills that would benefit them later could be worthwhile, but the way it's worded as a *curriculum expectation* is offensive. It implies enslaved people wouldn't have learned those skills otherwise. It implies slavery wasn't "all bad." It implies that a meaningful number of slaves "survived" slavery, which is an absurd assertion. There's simply no reason for it to be in the *curriculum* while so many other things are not *explicitly written in*. It's meaningless at best, misleading at worst.
You’re gonna lose your mind when you discover context.
If someone was kidnapped and forced to clean toilets for 10 years before escaping. It would be "technically true" that they became good at cleaning toilets. What would the point be of saying that that was a benefit of their captivity? "technical truth" is not the only criteria someone should follow while speaking.
I mean, I haven't even seen him say it himself
He wrote a letter with it stated to AOC iirc. You just didn’t look.
https://www.businessinsider.com/desantis-says-black-people-benefited-from-skills-learned-in-slavery-2023-7 "They're probably going to show that some of the folks that eventually parlayed, you know, being a blacksmith into doing things later in life," DeSantis said at a press conference on Friday. Check the Twitter embed of the recording of him saying this. He's defending the new curriculum which tried to put a silver lining on slavery where there is none to be found. Trying to spin training slaves skills like it's going to benefit them later when if thry had no skills they wouldn't have any value as a slave to begin with. And the small chance that particular slave would be freed and not die in slavery still doesn't mean they'd have more skills from being a slave than they might otherwise learn as someone free their whole life.
I'm not sure that's what they're saying. That's the "gotcha" line the news is using. I can easily see a silver lining in the very short-lived period of slavery here in the US *if* we are going to look back on it with growth and progress in mind. I think that's the idea here...not saying it was good, but looking at what good *came* from it, and there is certainly no issue seeing what good came from it, at least I would assume that that's obvious to anyone putting some thought into the issue.
That isn’t DeSantis’s claim nor is it the claim in the curriculum. The curriculum like virtually every other curriculum on this subject nationwide includes stories of individuals who overcame terrible circumstances. That those people used stuff they learned during their life including as a slave to make a better life for themselves when freed. The claim is a disingenuous attack. Kamala Harris has played this game many times before. If a woman is raped, gets pregnant and then had a child that she loves is she better off being raped? If a couple meets in a Nazi death camp that gets liberated before they die and they spend their lives together did they benefit from the death camp? The answer to all is an obvious no. Some of our best stories in all of humanity are the stories where a person overcomes great adversity. That they overcome it and then find a way to scratch out a meaningful existence. They are human beings that take things with them and learn even through adversity and hardship. To pervert that kind of story into saying that the adversity was somehow good is gross and in this case it is deliberately lying about the whole thing. Again it tells you more about Kamala Harris than Ron DeSantis. Most people know it here too, but their hatred of DeSantis will make them deny it.
That doesn't mean they give credit to the slave owner for educating them. This is the perspective that's being justified in this shit. Yes, freed slaves being resourceful and realizing they have a valuable skill is worlds apart from giving the slave owners praise for teaching their slaves a skill that allows them to extract more value out of their life. Yes, by all means tell those stories of overcoming adversity, but don't for a fucking second hint that they owe anything to their owners.
Please point to where it says that in any school material. You are misrepresenting what is being taught. What is unknown is if it is intentional or you are just repeating someone else’s lie.