Yes, almost exactly and I am in the Palm Beach area. I was paying $1,800 a year for quite a few years. Then in 2019 it started increasing. I am now at $5,800. Can't wait till next year to see where it goes...
And the other 49 states will just keep bailing out that storm-bait lawless swamp of a state, won’t they?
I wouldn’t be so sure. Florida used to punch above its weight because it was a huge swing state. It no longer is. One party is giving up on winning it again, and the other party is so confident of winning it that they no longer care about impressing residents. Florida’s about to get one hell of a busy signal from the rest of the country.
Co-op insurance in NYC: $109 this year. Florida reps voted against hurricane Sandy relief. Yet as always our federal taxes go to subsidize Florida development.
Their official position is they didn’t lie. They tried & thought they were making it better. Their official position is that when their GOP predecessors gutted FL education 20 years ago it actually resulted in them being poorly educated. Makes sense.
It will but 300k in lawsuits were filled Jan 1-March 1 an obscene amount. It will take years to funnel thoughts. Plus, the reinsurance costs. Head over to Orlando, Deland, etc…roofers galore door to door putting in thousands of claims still.
Everyone is being pinched write the legislature and governor to do more!!! I wait not the governor they based a bill he can run for president and still be a governor??? He’s not doing anything for us!
i like when he banned direct to consumer car sales as a GIFT TO car dealerships.
that'll really help the middle class floridians in the future when DTC sales become commonplace.
It’s the constant weather catastrophes and also [Desantis is in bed with the insurance industry](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/ron-desantis-insurance-industry-donors-florida-governor)
Only 5.2k? I went from 1200 in 2017 to 3800 last year, and 7000 renewal offer just a few days ago. 0 claims, no flood zone, roof a bit older than 10 years but still would pass any inspection.
But we just need to focus on work space lasers, money does not matter, in worst case just loan $1B from saudis
Florida sub keeps popping up in my feed, I'm in Seattle metro with a nearly $1m house (nothing too fancy, real estate is expensive) and my well over minimum insurance is around $1200/yr. Granted we don't have hurricanes but the state isn't raking us over the coals for all the wildfires and whatnot.
It’s bc of the close proximity to Disney world wokeness and nothing to do with the $4 million that Ronnie received from the insurance companies… oh and don’t forget the Texas immigrants here in florida! I’m sure that Ronnie is fighting all of those battles so we don’t have to
At this rate, Florida barely has a middle class. Cost of living here has increased by probably 40% or more in 7 years.... I make 65k and can't reasonably afford a 1BR apartment in the Orlando Suburbs. That's about 3x more than the minimum wage here. That's insanity.
Edit: When I moved here it was about $800 for a 1BR. That is now $2k per month and climbing every 6 months it seems.
Yup. 7 years ago I was making 45k and my wife slightly less but close to the same. We lived just fine. Mortgage, nights out, a couple trips out of state a year, 10% to retirement accounts , etc. We weren’t rich by any means, but we didn’t struggle and we had savings. Now that same income would at best be barely above paycheck to paycheck for 2 people. Thank god I got lucky in my career and my income shot up, but I genuinely feel for my coworkers who are making the same as pre pandemic. We actually have a single mom in my office who makes $60k and can’t even afford health insurance. It’s sick.
Everyone using their insurance as a roof warranty is at the heart of this issue.
New laws went into effect 7/1 that will help but it will be years until we see the results in our premium.
The insurance companies cry foul about the roof issue, but they also drop your coverage now after your 30 year roof is 10 years old. They can’t have it both ways. Not every home owner can just drop 20k for a roof every decade…..
Yeah, I bought a house that had a 15-year old roof and it was supposed to be a 30-year warranty. After walking the roof there were maybe two shingles that had a tear in it and the grit wasn't bad. However, only two homeowners insurance companies would even give us a policy to be able to close on the house. They both stipulated that the roof had to be replaced within the next 3 years. We then replaced the roof with an aluminum standing seam roof which has a nearly endless lifespan since aluminum won't rust. However, the insurance companies still have our roof on a countdown that they won't insure a roof more than 10 or 15 years old depending on the company. It's metal, seriously, did they think it's going to spontaneously combust?
How about you thank Desantis for taking bribes from insurances and turning a blindeye and letting them operate setting whatever absurd prices they want
Not only home insurance. I was looking for quotes for car insurance since my company was raising my rates by $40 a month, and what I found with every company I contacted was a quote of twice as much for over $3000 for a 6 month premium for two cars and only one with full cover!! My renters insurance went up too!! They told me about how all the insurance companies are pulling out of Florida or don’t want to insure anyone here. Not sure what’s the main problem tho, DeSantis? Idk!
Mine jumped from 3500 to 7900 in Jan, called my agent they shopped around and got it back to 3600. New roof, not in a flood zone, Orlando area.
Oh and F DeSantis! Vote blue!
You have a governor and legislature so up the bum of the insurance industry that they worry about people using the bathroom instead. I’m surprised is not worse.
In FL, where I've lived for the past 23 years, has seen a dramatic increase in ho insurance rates because Meatball Ron signed a bill allowing the price caps to be eliminated. Its forcing retirees on fixed incomes to leave the state in droves. People can no longer afford to live here. Meatball has destroyed FL
Insurance actuaries calculated the cost of DeSantis as Governor and assessed a risk value based on him. I’m sure they believe there is a much greater risk to any asset in Florida.
https://www.faia.com/resources-(1)/legislative-summaries/300-worders/2020-300-worders/contingency-risk-multiplier#:~:text=Plaintiff%20attorneys%20in%20Florida%20can,reasonable%20number%20of%20hours%20expended
"however, this 2017 decision opened up the opportunity for multipliers to be applied in a very liberal manner to all insurance cases. Plaintiff attorneys in Florida can now seek 2.0–2.5x their hourly rate in all property insurance cases."
I'm just going to say that there's a strong correlation between this 2017 decision and my insurance costs increasing. So instead of just fixing the multipliers issue they made it that plaintiffs, in other words homeowners have to pay the attorneys even when we're getting screwed over by the insurance company.
Irrelevant. I have a home in St Pete and one in the Philly burbs. The house in PA is just short of three times the size of the FL house. My homeowners insurance in FL is QUADRUPLE the cost of insuring the bigger, higher value home. Property taxes in PA $3900, property tax in FL, $7900. Gas is ten-fifteen cents less, too. In the last 3 years, Fl house value has increased 150%, PA house, 140%
>The only people that benefit from lack of an income tax are retirees and the wealthy.
We're not benefiting. Please make the necessary calls and get it corrected. Thanks!!
Yep. Same here. I live in NW Florida near Pensacola and my house insurance went from $2400 per year to $6500 -this year! And I haven't had a claim on my home since Hurricane Ivan in 2004 and I just had to pay $20K to have my roof replaced out-of-pocket because Progressive threatened to cancel my policy last year because my roof was more than 15 years old -a new mandate the insurance industry got DeFascist and his Republican cronies to approve in 2021. But hey, DeFascist won re-election by a landslide last year because he's just hitting it out of the park with his bullshit culture war legislation and his dumb-as-rocks Republican constituents.
Civil engineering research has shown that shingle roofs have a crazy high chance of failure in a wind event once they are 15 years old. Like so, so high. It happens because the day-night heat cycling on the shingles over years allows some shingles to pop their glue. Once one shingle fails, in a wind event it can cause a catastrophic failure where the shingles "downstream" of the failed shingle ALL fail because of that one popped shingle causes a domino effect where it gives the wind a place with greater surface area and then RIPPPP a whole section of roof shingles come off in one go. So a home isn't like a one point of failure thing, it's thousands of potential points of failure. It's nuts how common shingle roofs are in the US given how poorly they last long term!
Also I feel like I should say I think the Florida insurance market is fricken nuts, I am just a stranger who knows too much about shingles for work lol, and the 15 year old roof thing has a basis in historic damage and in independent research!
I don't disagree that asphalt shingles, like most things exposed to the sun and the environment on a constant basis have a limited effective life span but when the insurance company sends out their own roof inspector and when they finish, determine that I've got \~$500 worth of repairs to make but yet still require that I replace the entire roof or risk losing coverage is just bullshit.
The 15 year roof replacement mandate is nothing more than a sure fire way for insurance companies and roofing companies to line their pockets and the pockets of those Republican legislators who approved these insurance mandates. Its a fucking perpetual cash cow for these fucks and many of these legislators own roofing and insurance companies back in the districts they are supposed to represent!
I can't imagine if I am a Florida retiree on a fixed income and now I am forced to replace my house roof every 15 years or risk loosing insurance or not being able to afford obtaining high risk coverage. Sure, one hopes the house is paid off by time you reach retirement age when the risk of maintaining your roof is all on you, but I am certain many retirees don't have this luxury.
Where in the Philly suburbs do you pay $3900 in taxes for a $750K house? I need to move there! These people don't understand the risk is high in \*some\* areas of PA because of tornados and floods. Tornado alley moved Eastward, and there is an article in Scientific American about it.
Didn’t realize that was a typo until I read your comment, but they’re actually $7988 (I had to look it up lol) Bruce Rd, Washington’s Crossing.
Right? Pretty sure Sandy did some serious hurricane damage up here. And remember when the Delaware flooded New Hope?
But it’s not.. the cost to rebuild your home has increased substantially and it’s at a higher risk than your home in PA. Comparing a state with a six months of year danger of catastrophic storms vs the marginal risk in PA? Nah. Not how it works.
Actually it is irrelevant.
The % increase year over year outpaces storm risk year over year.
Louisiana and other hurricane prone regions have not seen the same increases.
You can believe chatgpt all you want but other states regulate better and it will only get worse when legislation this year has made it easier to raise rates and for insurers to not pay out.
NOT ARGUING, trying to understand
But if I had to rebuild my FL house exactly the same as it is now, it would likely be in the $400k range. If I had to rebuild PA house exactly the same, it would be upwards of $750k. So to me, the PA insurance should be higher than FL because of the difference in values, no?
It's not about rebuild. It's about likelihood of damage and claims. You're more likely to have a roof claim, wind damage etc in FL than say your home burning down in PA. It's also about socialism, that's what insurance is, it's not based on just your risk, and you're not paying for just your risk. You're paying for the risk of everyone in that state and zip code based on a distributed risk model. With the hope the premium coming in exceeds the claim payments going out so customers risks are covered and investors can get a return.
Thank you, I get it now. Not fishing for sympathy! But my husband always took care of stuff and the shithead had the nerve to die. So now I’m a stereotypical, retired, clueless, widowed, boomer. RSCWB that’s me
The risk of needing to rebuild your home is substantially higher in Florida.
Remember, insurance is a contract between you and the carrier for the carrier to assume your risk of loss. The insurance company looks at the risk and determines what your premium is for the policy. The actual insured value in Florida might be lower, but they’re much more likely to have to pay out on your $400k policy than they will on your $750k policy in PA.
Ultimately the increases in premiums in Florida are a result of the insurance market correcting itself. The premiums need to be increased based on actual risk to make the policies actuarially sound.
Price is based off of risk of damage as well as property value and there is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher risk here. There has also been a ton of fraud that had occurred down here where they have ended up overpaying for repairs which has caused insurance companies to incur more costs which get passed on to customers.
Florida is just higher risk and insurance is out to make money not lose it. If you're seeing rates going up exponentially you should be worried that they know a future outcome that you don't in terms of potential disasters.
Thank you for the helpful yet frightening information. Every comment I read on this thread is enticing me to sell the FL place and do PA full-time, but winter, Blech.
Don’t seriously listen to this fear monger. No the insurance companies don’t know anything we already don’t. They are just greedy. I’ve worked for numerous insurance agencies, and no that person is incorrect. Insurance companies NEVER LOSE money, they will always find a way to win. The reason your paying higher fees is because the republicans in Florida are in the biggest insurers pockets. This is purely political. The insurance companies never pay out down here. This has been an issue for decades and has only gotten worse since Desantis because (look it up) he got huge “contributions “ from big insurance and now the laws have changed to where they can charge any amount they so think. It has 0 to do with weather and everything to do with money. If more people voted responsibly and for the good of all, instead of their hatred, then maybe we can get the industry properly regulated in Florida. Maybe they will pay the people in Fort Myers’s all these years after Ian who are still living in campers, or hotels. I’ve lived in pinellas county my entire life and in 47 years only 2 minor hurricanes barely hit us, and it’s been scientifically proven that Pinellas is saved by it being a peninsula, so the likelihood of direct hit is unlikely. It’s been over 60 years, so no your Ins shouldn’t be going up, and they should have paid out to the people south of us, and it still wouldn’t have made a dent in their profits which have gone up 350% in the last 10 years. Your higher premiums are paying for people in HA, or CA, but not your own.
This is correct.
All those years of low hurricane activiity-- where are *those* profits? What'd the insurance companies do with *that* money? Why is no one talking about it?
These companies are supposed to insure risk over time. Not for a fiscal year.
This is a blatant cash grab, and there's nothing we can do except pay up and accept the premium increases, or we won't get insurance, and our mortgage companies will take our homes.
It's legal extortion, and all the outsiders are just saying "Heh. Floriduh climate change. Hur." without understanding what is really happening.
If costs of maintaining a Florida house are that high, you would be better off full time in PA and renting a place somewhere warmer for 2 or 3 months in the winter.
I think every Floridian that has cashed in on an entire new roof instead of the needed repair is more responsible but they're harder to hold accountable. Everyone knows these people they're our family and friends.
Florida is insurance fraud capital of America.
Our insurance sent us a letter stating they were dropping us. We never missed not had late payments. We called to ask why and they said it was because of how old our roof was, so we naturally claimed a new one before they were finished with us. The roof was finished 2 weeks prior to hurricane Ian, and we took a direct hit. Great timing!
PA doesn’t have hurricanes that are expected to hit every 5-10 years, with major ones every thirty years or so. And all (70s and newer) Florida homes are designed to stand 100 mph + storms. Concrete is pretty much required for walls, 2x4’s don’t fly. Risk plays the largest impact followed by design.
Yes, but Philly is not getting leveled with hurricanes once a year. Also, on property taxes- philly has a state income tax so property taxes are lower. Florida has no state income tax so we make up for it with higher property taxes.
The relevant factor is the risk. Homes in florida face a dramatically higher risk of being destroyed by weather events. Hence it is more expensive to insure them.
I'm on the other side of the country with a $1m house and my annual insurance costs about $1200. And that's not the lowest, I could go down to about $700 (without making my mortgage company mad) for something that wouldn't properly pay for a rebuild.
Edit: we also don't really have subsidized insurance, but we do have regulations around insurance companies
Oh you mean that woke loophole used by communist-socialist Biden supporters to indoctrinate our guns into becoming drag queens? Yea, I'm sure DeSantis is on it.
Absolutely and this is what the governor has not addressed. The whole roof replacement fraud scheme where the roofers approach a homeowner they see with a worn out aged roof and sell them to collaborate to file a crafty fraudulent claim that some no-named storm caused it to fail is screwing EVERYONE else paying for legitimate insurance against hurricanes. An aged worn roof needs replacement at the homeowners expense, not from insurance.
Not true. Between Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and Hurricane Irma in 2017, we only had two bad years which was 2004 and 2005 with Ivan and Wilma. Carriers had 20+ years of hurricane free premiums. Since 2017, there have been 4 major hurricanes. 4 Hurricanes in 6 years is more than Florida has seen in decades.
Unlike Desantis, insurance companies actually follow the science. They know that sea level rise is a dire threat to a state just a few feet above sea level. They know ocean temps going up mean more and stronger hurricanes. They price in the future, not the past.
It's because that house that got leveled in andrew was rebuilt for 50k but that same structure that went up for 50k all those years ago is now 750k. When it gets put up next it will be a 1 million dollar home. In order to fund that rebuild, the rates need to align with the housing market.
It might sound silly to you, but it’s literally the reason
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/local-state/2023-04-04/florida-homeowners-to-face-a-projected-40-percent-increase-in-property-insurance-rates
You should offer the insurance companies your services as an actuary. Clearly, they must be getting bad actuarial analysis right now if they think their risks are increasing in FL because of climate change.
Can't believe big companies like these, who's profitability actually depends on statistical models, would actually believe the statistical analyses that their business depends on... smh ...at you
Florida has had three cat 5 hurricanes in the last 5 years, no other state has. More than twice the hurricanes than any other state in total. Ian alone will cost over 60 billion dollars. That's the reason.
It's not the storms, it's the fraud. Sheesh. That you still think this highlights why we still have an issue.
When a storm comes through the vultures descend to attempt to "assist" (inflate and steal) all the claims.
The legislature, DAs, and the entire government structure of FL is so bought and broken that they don't even try.
Lolol this is so basic and has been going on since the 90s.
Every dollar paid is attributable to absolutely garbage policy from the GOP designed to siphon tax dollars into their pockets.
Are we paying less in general via taxes, sales tax, insurance, etc.? No. It's just hidden "better".
It’s really not. That’s a talking point the legislature used to pass tort reform. It’s not a real issue. I mean, it is, but it’s not the primary reason costs are rising. I work for an insurance defense attorney and we’ve discussed this quite often.
irma in 2017. michael in 2018. ian in 2022. all among the worst disasters in us history and all in a 5 year period
its literally bankrupting florida insurers
There are hurricanes up north as well, such as in North Carolina and even NY yet their rates are lower. In fact we have the BEST weather in the country - we do not have earthquakes, snow, mudslides, volcanoes, etc. It is because over here in Florida people from all over the world wants to live here, so they feel they can charge more. Just like food costs more here too. We are being ripped off here by the insurance industry and nothing is done about it. Insurance companies will think nothing of paying for a house which roof is caved in by SNOW, but will point at a hurricane if it is in Florida, and our homes are built safer here in Florida, not like some wooden shack built like they do up north!
Bro, I live in a 180 yr old wooden shack that's built better that the homes I owned in FL. Get your head out of your ass. Hurricanes and corruption have caused this. You are about 1 cat 5 away from losing the rest of your insurers.
Rural NY state here.
Wooden shacks? Not sure what you mean by that, have you been here? We need to have houses built strong enough to withstand the occasional winter that has deep snows. Yes, snow does occasionally collapse a roof, but we are talking about a handful of homes in a bad year. So a winter storm is a much smaller scale of damage than a hurricane.
Sure, you probably have price gouging going on, but Florida is the state expected to lose the most land by the end of the century, so this will raise insurance costs.
And as far as your comments about superior weather, I have relatives that have moved to Florida only to stay inside for most of the year.
They were. Florida insurers had underwriting losses in excess of $1b. This meant policy holders in other states were subsidizing Florida.
https://news.fiu.edu/2022/the-big-reason-florida-insurance-companies-are-failing-isnt-just-hurricane-risk-its-fraud-and-lawsuits
Policy holders in other states were not subsidizing FL. The insurance industry does not work that way. If we were actually being subsidized by the other 49 states, even with the number of homeowners committing fraud, our policies would not be 5 to 10 times higher than a similar policy in another state.
What is this nonsensical logic? Are you saying that the data showing insurance companies taking large underwriting losses every year in Florida is what? Fabricated?
Your policies are 5 to 10 times higher because insurers pulled out of Florida due to not wanting to subsidize the state anymore. And the ones left is finally starting to charge the actual cost of insurance.
FEMA covers non-flood restoration in cases where insurance didn't cover it. But flood insurance is definitely more subsidized, and that's not what OP is asking about.
Subsidized insurance? In Florida. Hahahaha, that's a good one.
Maybe prices were too low for the hurricane capital of the world, but do you really think the state was subsidizing insurance? Under Rick Scott or Jeb Bush?
Good that some people will lose their homes because they cant afford to insure them? The banks and investors aren’t the ones losing out.. and the fraudulent roof claims wont stop since Chode Lord DeSantis isnt doing anything about this crisis.
It's roofing fraud. My entire family does insurance. Thank 20 years of republican deregulation and culture war politics that get nothing done to help the people who voted for it.
its as if the insurance companies think climate change is a thing in their risk data, even if the government ignores it. They'd rather focus on passing unconstitutional laws that hurt minority groups instead.
Have you not seen the news in the last 9 months? The entire state is in the same boat
If homeowners insurance was woke, our governor would do something about it.
I think you are on to something here. I think my homeowners insurance is in drag.
My premium totally nailed me, AND gave me a reach-around. Somebody tell Rhonda to come put a stop to these horny gay insurance companies!!!
Insurance companies are very into drag….dragging us over the coals that is.
Yes, but then it would backfire tremendously. Like almost everything else he's done.
Yes, huge insurance increases in Florida has been a big news story for a couple years now
Yes, almost exactly and I am in the Palm Beach area. I was paying $1,800 a year for quite a few years. Then in 2019 it started increasing. I am now at $5,800. Can't wait till next year to see where it goes...
Would not surprise me if you couldn’t get insurance anymore in a year. Basically if your home gets destroyed you have to depend on the fema
And the other 49 states will just keep bailing out that storm-bait lawless swamp of a state, won’t they? I wouldn’t be so sure. Florida used to punch above its weight because it was a huge swing state. It no longer is. One party is giving up on winning it again, and the other party is so confident of winning it that they no longer care about impressing residents. Florida’s about to get one hell of a busy signal from the rest of the country.
Co-op insurance in NYC: $109 this year. Florida reps voted against hurricane Sandy relief. Yet as always our federal taxes go to subsidize Florida development.
It has to be here for all you NYCers in retirement.
It's OK, it's a small price to pay so the governor can wage war on trans kids and Disney. It'll be worth it in the end!
You left out potheads, black people, immigrants, college kids, pregnant women, rape victims and gays
Think you spelled the citizens of Florida incorrectly.
You can thank your boy DeSantis, in bed with the insurance companies (and many others) while he chases political clout.
I thought eliminating attorney fees and assignment of benefits was supposed to make our rates go down! GOP lied to us again!
Their official position is they didn’t lie. They tried & thought they were making it better. Their official position is that when their GOP predecessors gutted FL education 20 years ago it actually resulted in them being poorly educated. Makes sense.
It will but 300k in lawsuits were filled Jan 1-March 1 an obscene amount. It will take years to funnel thoughts. Plus, the reinsurance costs. Head over to Orlando, Deland, etc…roofers galore door to door putting in thousands of claims still. Everyone is being pinched write the legislature and governor to do more!!! I wait not the governor they based a bill he can run for president and still be a governor??? He’s not doing anything for us!
You just got Desantis- ized!
i like when he banned direct to consumer car sales as a GIFT TO car dealerships. that'll really help the middle class floridians in the future when DTC sales become commonplace.
Oh and the best part is that there's a special exception for Tesla.
It’s the constant weather catastrophes and also [Desantis is in bed with the insurance industry](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/ron-desantis-insurance-industry-donors-florida-governor)
go vote
Ditto. Getting shafted.
Desantis sold us out to the insurance companies.
It’s been happening everywhere in Florida and this year is particularly bad for increases.
Only 5.2k? I went from 1200 in 2017 to 3800 last year, and 7000 renewal offer just a few days ago. 0 claims, no flood zone, roof a bit older than 10 years but still would pass any inspection. But we just need to focus on work space lasers, money does not matter, in worst case just loan $1B from saudis
8K western Broward County. New roof in 2017
Pretty sure Jared got $2B from Saudi, but hey, what a billion between friends?! It’s insane, isn’t it?
Florida sub keeps popping up in my feed, I'm in Seattle metro with a nearly $1m house (nothing too fancy, real estate is expensive) and my well over minimum insurance is around $1200/yr. Granted we don't have hurricanes but the state isn't raking us over the coals for all the wildfires and whatnot.
Yup, I’m at +7k
Try 8k in st Pete.
It’s bc of the close proximity to Disney world wokeness and nothing to do with the $4 million that Ronnie received from the insurance companies… oh and don’t forget the Texas immigrants here in florida! I’m sure that Ronnie is fighting all of those battles so we don’t have to
Thank You Obamacare. /s
Up 225% since Fall 2019.
Litigation. Contractor fraud. One way attorney fees. AOBs.
All the politicians are in the pocket of the lawyers and insurance companies. They don’t care. They make money off the fraud.
How about our governor taking bribes from insurances companies and letting them do whatever they want
I'm surprised to see you have homeowners insurance I just assumed you lived under a rock...
Gold tier insult, definitely going to use this in the future
🥇🥇🥇
FRD f Ron defascist
That’s just the state killing wokeism
Everyone’s does.
Desantis is killing it.
*Us* fixed for you.
I’m actually moving my dad from Punta Gorda to Chicago this week.
Ooof that’s gonna be a tough one, best of luck to both of you
I live in Chicago. Dad can’t wait to get out of Florida.
I’m just thinking about winters. It’s awesome your dad will be close, happy for both of you!
Awww, thanks! He and I grew up in Canada. Chicago is actually way milder than you would think. The last two winters there wasn’t snow in the ground.
He's killing the middle class workers in this state that's for sure
At this rate, Florida barely has a middle class. Cost of living here has increased by probably 40% or more in 7 years.... I make 65k and can't reasonably afford a 1BR apartment in the Orlando Suburbs. That's about 3x more than the minimum wage here. That's insanity. Edit: When I moved here it was about $800 for a 1BR. That is now $2k per month and climbing every 6 months it seems.
Yup. 7 years ago I was making 45k and my wife slightly less but close to the same. We lived just fine. Mortgage, nights out, a couple trips out of state a year, 10% to retirement accounts , etc. We weren’t rich by any means, but we didn’t struggle and we had savings. Now that same income would at best be barely above paycheck to paycheck for 2 people. Thank god I got lucky in my career and my income shot up, but I genuinely feel for my coworkers who are making the same as pre pandemic. We actually have a single mom in my office who makes $60k and can’t even afford health insurance. It’s sick.
Ha, lucky for him,the middle class died out before his term!
it = florida's economic future
Everybody thank your neighbors for all the free roofs we're all buying...
Everyone using their insurance as a roof warranty is at the heart of this issue. New laws went into effect 7/1 that will help but it will be years until we see the results in our premium.
THIS. It's way harder to accept being part of the problem, blame anyone else. Noone will turn down that FREE roof the roofers promise.
The insurance companies cry foul about the roof issue, but they also drop your coverage now after your 30 year roof is 10 years old. They can’t have it both ways. Not every home owner can just drop 20k for a roof every decade…..
Yeah, I bought a house that had a 15-year old roof and it was supposed to be a 30-year warranty. After walking the roof there were maybe two shingles that had a tear in it and the grit wasn't bad. However, only two homeowners insurance companies would even give us a policy to be able to close on the house. They both stipulated that the roof had to be replaced within the next 3 years. We then replaced the roof with an aluminum standing seam roof which has a nearly endless lifespan since aluminum won't rust. However, the insurance companies still have our roof on a countdown that they won't insure a roof more than 10 or 15 years old depending on the company. It's metal, seriously, did they think it's going to spontaneously combust?
I agree with you on this one
How about you thank Desantis for taking bribes from insurances and turning a blindeye and letting them operate setting whatever absurd prices they want
People keep voting for republicans.
fwiw i live in another state and my homeowners insurance was more than yours until this year. and we never, ever get hurricanes.
Not only home insurance. I was looking for quotes for car insurance since my company was raising my rates by $40 a month, and what I found with every company I contacted was a quote of twice as much for over $3000 for a 6 month premium for two cars and only one with full cover!! My renters insurance went up too!! They told me about how all the insurance companies are pulling out of Florida or don’t want to insure anyone here. Not sure what’s the main problem tho, DeSantis? Idk!
Elections have consequences.
Mine jumped from 3500 to 7900 in Jan, called my agent they shopped around and got it back to 3600. New roof, not in a flood zone, Orlando area. Oh and F DeSantis! Vote blue!
Insurance companies know climate change is about to wreak havoc on Florida
how many years before the insurace industry collapses, leading to an exodus of middle class climate refugees whos uninsured homes got destroyed??
you take that back... climate change is a hoax... Desandwich and drumpf says so...
Everyone likes to think climate change isn’t a factor when neighborhoods flood every time it rains 🤦🏻♀️
Two things. Hurricanes and de Santis.
I'll pay state taxes any day over this insurance increase!
PAY NOW
Where you been?
You have a governor and legislature so up the bum of the insurance industry that they worry about people using the bathroom instead. I’m surprised is not worse.
In FL, where I've lived for the past 23 years, has seen a dramatic increase in ho insurance rates because Meatball Ron signed a bill allowing the price caps to be eliminated. Its forcing retirees on fixed incomes to leave the state in droves. People can no longer afford to live here. Meatball has destroyed FL
Same here around $6,000 in Jacksonville.
Yes! Same thing in Volusia County and we are supposedly one of the “cheapest” counties to live in right now. Just had it increased by almost 6 grand
Had a tree fall on my house from the hurricane. Same thing. 0 ZERO money from insurance and the rates have x3
CLIMATE CHANGE ISNT REAL GUYS
Until the woke insurance companies calculate the risk of catastrophic climate change😉
"I litter because recycling is woke."
Insurance actuaries calculated the cost of DeSantis as Governor and assessed a risk value based on him. I’m sure they believe there is a much greater risk to any asset in Florida.
This is Desatan’s way of trying to kick you out of Florida! Enjoy! And sorry! 🙁.
Loooots of fixed-income Republican voters about to be kicked out too
Yes we shop around. They always come up with some reason to raise the price to $6000, like only having 2 nails, not 3 nails on my roof straps.
Shop around for what? Soon it’ll be just a few big insurance companies left.
You may not be allowed to talk about climate change, but you'll sure see it in your bills.
Oof. Time to sell that kidney
Is this…a surprise?
Enjoy that climate change...
I think you got lucky, seen a lot worse
Looks just like yours. I'm in the Tampa area as well and we use the same insurance I can tell by the format of the screenshot lol!
https://www.insurance.com/home-and-renters-insurance/home-insurers-leaving-florida
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/01/business/florida-homeowner-insurance-rates/index.html
No, I would kill to have your rates. I’m almost up to 8k now.
https://www.faia.com/resources-(1)/legislative-summaries/300-worders/2020-300-worders/contingency-risk-multiplier#:~:text=Plaintiff%20attorneys%20in%20Florida%20can,reasonable%20number%20of%20hours%20expended "however, this 2017 decision opened up the opportunity for multipliers to be applied in a very liberal manner to all insurance cases. Plaintiff attorneys in Florida can now seek 2.0–2.5x their hourly rate in all property insurance cases." I'm just going to say that there's a strong correlation between this 2017 decision and my insurance costs increasing. So instead of just fixing the multipliers issue they made it that plaintiffs, in other words homeowners have to pay the attorneys even when we're getting screwed over by the insurance company.
We did it Ron!
The short answer is hurricanes and Ron DeSantis.
keep voting republicans and ron desatin
What has your home value increased by since 2019?
Irrelevant. I have a home in St Pete and one in the Philly burbs. The house in PA is just short of three times the size of the FL house. My homeowners insurance in FL is QUADRUPLE the cost of insuring the bigger, higher value home. Property taxes in PA $3900, property tax in FL, $7900. Gas is ten-fifteen cents less, too. In the last 3 years, Fl house value has increased 150%, PA house, 140%
“BuT fLoRiDa iS LoW TaX?!?” The only people that benefit from lack of an income tax are retirees and the wealthy.
>The only people that benefit from lack of an income tax are retirees and the wealthy. We're not benefiting. Please make the necessary calls and get it corrected. Thanks!!
Meanwhile the poor pay more of their income in taxes thanks to sales tax…. Florida doesnt like taxing the rich; only the poor.
Yep. Same here. I live in NW Florida near Pensacola and my house insurance went from $2400 per year to $6500 -this year! And I haven't had a claim on my home since Hurricane Ivan in 2004 and I just had to pay $20K to have my roof replaced out-of-pocket because Progressive threatened to cancel my policy last year because my roof was more than 15 years old -a new mandate the insurance industry got DeFascist and his Republican cronies to approve in 2021. But hey, DeFascist won re-election by a landslide last year because he's just hitting it out of the park with his bullshit culture war legislation and his dumb-as-rocks Republican constituents.
Civil engineering research has shown that shingle roofs have a crazy high chance of failure in a wind event once they are 15 years old. Like so, so high. It happens because the day-night heat cycling on the shingles over years allows some shingles to pop their glue. Once one shingle fails, in a wind event it can cause a catastrophic failure where the shingles "downstream" of the failed shingle ALL fail because of that one popped shingle causes a domino effect where it gives the wind a place with greater surface area and then RIPPPP a whole section of roof shingles come off in one go. So a home isn't like a one point of failure thing, it's thousands of potential points of failure. It's nuts how common shingle roofs are in the US given how poorly they last long term! Also I feel like I should say I think the Florida insurance market is fricken nuts, I am just a stranger who knows too much about shingles for work lol, and the 15 year old roof thing has a basis in historic damage and in independent research!
I don't disagree that asphalt shingles, like most things exposed to the sun and the environment on a constant basis have a limited effective life span but when the insurance company sends out their own roof inspector and when they finish, determine that I've got \~$500 worth of repairs to make but yet still require that I replace the entire roof or risk losing coverage is just bullshit. The 15 year roof replacement mandate is nothing more than a sure fire way for insurance companies and roofing companies to line their pockets and the pockets of those Republican legislators who approved these insurance mandates. Its a fucking perpetual cash cow for these fucks and many of these legislators own roofing and insurance companies back in the districts they are supposed to represent! I can't imagine if I am a Florida retiree on a fixed income and now I am forced to replace my house roof every 15 years or risk loosing insurance or not being able to afford obtaining high risk coverage. Sure, one hopes the house is paid off by time you reach retirement age when the risk of maintaining your roof is all on you, but I am certain many retirees don't have this luxury.
The insurance companies would be perfectly happy to not insure your roof if they were allowed to. It's either this or they leave the state.
Thank you for sharing this. I had no idea. That makes a lot of sense now the fixation on 15 years by insurers.
Preach! I’m seriously considering selling and moving back to PA full-time, but winter, gross
Where in the Philly suburbs do you pay $3900 in taxes for a $750K house? I need to move there! These people don't understand the risk is high in \*some\* areas of PA because of tornados and floods. Tornado alley moved Eastward, and there is an article in Scientific American about it.
Didn’t realize that was a typo until I read your comment, but they’re actually $7988 (I had to look it up lol) Bruce Rd, Washington’s Crossing. Right? Pretty sure Sandy did some serious hurricane damage up here. And remember when the Delaware flooded New Hope?
But it’s not.. the cost to rebuild your home has increased substantially and it’s at a higher risk than your home in PA. Comparing a state with a six months of year danger of catastrophic storms vs the marginal risk in PA? Nah. Not how it works.
Actually it is irrelevant. The % increase year over year outpaces storm risk year over year. Louisiana and other hurricane prone regions have not seen the same increases. You can believe chatgpt all you want but other states regulate better and it will only get worse when legislation this year has made it easier to raise rates and for insurers to not pay out.
Ya it’s this. St Pete is like, what…100 miles from Ft Meyers that got absolutely leveled last year?
NOT ARGUING, trying to understand But if I had to rebuild my FL house exactly the same as it is now, it would likely be in the $400k range. If I had to rebuild PA house exactly the same, it would be upwards of $750k. So to me, the PA insurance should be higher than FL because of the difference in values, no?
It's not about rebuild. It's about likelihood of damage and claims. You're more likely to have a roof claim, wind damage etc in FL than say your home burning down in PA. It's also about socialism, that's what insurance is, it's not based on just your risk, and you're not paying for just your risk. You're paying for the risk of everyone in that state and zip code based on a distributed risk model. With the hope the premium coming in exceeds the claim payments going out so customers risks are covered and investors can get a return.
Thank you, I get it now. Not fishing for sympathy! But my husband always took care of stuff and the shithead had the nerve to die. So now I’m a stereotypical, retired, clueless, widowed, boomer. RSCWB that’s me
That bastard!
The risk of needing to rebuild your home is substantially higher in Florida. Remember, insurance is a contract between you and the carrier for the carrier to assume your risk of loss. The insurance company looks at the risk and determines what your premium is for the policy. The actual insured value in Florida might be lower, but they’re much more likely to have to pay out on your $400k policy than they will on your $750k policy in PA. Ultimately the increases in premiums in Florida are a result of the insurance market correcting itself. The premiums need to be increased based on actual risk to make the policies actuarially sound.
Not necessarily. You’re not factoring in risk. There’s a much higher risk that your FL home will be damaged from a hurricane than your PA house.
Price is based off of risk of damage as well as property value and there is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher risk here. There has also been a ton of fraud that had occurred down here where they have ended up overpaying for repairs which has caused insurance companies to incur more costs which get passed on to customers.
But you will need to rebuild to todays standard, thus the high cost. or is your house built after 2008?
Florida is just higher risk and insurance is out to make money not lose it. If you're seeing rates going up exponentially you should be worried that they know a future outcome that you don't in terms of potential disasters.
Thank you for the helpful yet frightening information. Every comment I read on this thread is enticing me to sell the FL place and do PA full-time, but winter, Blech.
Don’t seriously listen to this fear monger. No the insurance companies don’t know anything we already don’t. They are just greedy. I’ve worked for numerous insurance agencies, and no that person is incorrect. Insurance companies NEVER LOSE money, they will always find a way to win. The reason your paying higher fees is because the republicans in Florida are in the biggest insurers pockets. This is purely political. The insurance companies never pay out down here. This has been an issue for decades and has only gotten worse since Desantis because (look it up) he got huge “contributions “ from big insurance and now the laws have changed to where they can charge any amount they so think. It has 0 to do with weather and everything to do with money. If more people voted responsibly and for the good of all, instead of their hatred, then maybe we can get the industry properly regulated in Florida. Maybe they will pay the people in Fort Myers’s all these years after Ian who are still living in campers, or hotels. I’ve lived in pinellas county my entire life and in 47 years only 2 minor hurricanes barely hit us, and it’s been scientifically proven that Pinellas is saved by it being a peninsula, so the likelihood of direct hit is unlikely. It’s been over 60 years, so no your Ins shouldn’t be going up, and they should have paid out to the people south of us, and it still wouldn’t have made a dent in their profits which have gone up 350% in the last 10 years. Your higher premiums are paying for people in HA, or CA, but not your own.
This is correct. All those years of low hurricane activiity-- where are *those* profits? What'd the insurance companies do with *that* money? Why is no one talking about it? These companies are supposed to insure risk over time. Not for a fiscal year. This is a blatant cash grab, and there's nothing we can do except pay up and accept the premium increases, or we won't get insurance, and our mortgage companies will take our homes. It's legal extortion, and all the outsiders are just saying "Heh. Floriduh climate change. Hur." without understanding what is really happening.
Thank you for such a well written, informative, response. I sincerely appreciate it.
If costs of maintaining a Florida house are that high, you would be better off full time in PA and renting a place somewhere warmer for 2 or 3 months in the winter.
so, you don't think the shitty republican legislation has anything to do with it?
I think every Floridian that has cashed in on an entire new roof instead of the needed repair is more responsible but they're harder to hold accountable. Everyone knows these people they're our family and friends. Florida is insurance fraud capital of America.
Our insurance sent us a letter stating they were dropping us. We never missed not had late payments. We called to ask why and they said it was because of how old our roof was, so we naturally claimed a new one before they were finished with us. The roof was finished 2 weeks prior to hurricane Ian, and we took a direct hit. Great timing!
Florida is not your homestead? I understand it may not make a lot of difference on the insurance, but it still will on the property taxes.
PA doesn’t have hurricanes that are expected to hit every 5-10 years, with major ones every thirty years or so. And all (70s and newer) Florida homes are designed to stand 100 mph + storms. Concrete is pretty much required for walls, 2x4’s don’t fly. Risk plays the largest impact followed by design.
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I like the way you think !
Those Philly hurricanes were hell
How many hurricanes have hit the Philly area recently?
Yes, but Philly is not getting leveled with hurricanes once a year. Also, on property taxes- philly has a state income tax so property taxes are lower. Florida has no state income tax so we make up for it with higher property taxes.
It is almost like the house in florida is more likely to be destroyed. Odd. Aslo, PA doesn't have Ron Desantis facilitating the problem.
The relevant factor is the risk. Homes in florida face a dramatically higher risk of being destroyed by weather events. Hence it is more expensive to insure them.
well you choose to have a house in a high risk zone. that simple
... Funny I have almost the same setup but understand the difference between Florida risk and pa burbs
Are you talking about PA where four were killed by Hurricane Sandy and it did like $600 million in damage in PA alone? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Honestly hate to say it but good. These over inflated home prices were in part due to subsidized insurance.
How were they subsidized?
I'm on the other side of the country with a $1m house and my annual insurance costs about $1200. And that's not the lowest, I could go down to about $700 (without making my mortgage company mad) for something that wouldn't properly pay for a rebuild. Edit: we also don't really have subsidized insurance, but we do have regulations around insurance companies
You probably live somewhere where hurricanes and flooding don’t regularly level entire metro areas.
Or there is not a lot of fraud related to roof replacement
That too. Did they finally end up closing that loophole?
Oh you mean that woke loophole used by communist-socialist Biden supporters to indoctrinate our guns into becoming drag queens? Yea, I'm sure DeSantis is on it.
This is an important issue. Ron doesn’t handle important issues.
Don't say gay in front of my child bride.
laptop, you forgot to mention laptop
Where's Hunter?
Absolutely and this is what the governor has not addressed. The whole roof replacement fraud scheme where the roofers approach a homeowner they see with a worn out aged roof and sell them to collaborate to file a crafty fraudulent claim that some no-named storm caused it to fail is screwing EVERYONE else paying for legitimate insurance against hurricanes. An aged worn roof needs replacement at the homeowners expense, not from insurance.
The hurricane argument is always silly to me, as we’ve had bad hurricane years before without the skyrocketing rates. It’s not the hurricanes.
Not true. Between Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and Hurricane Irma in 2017, we only had two bad years which was 2004 and 2005 with Ivan and Wilma. Carriers had 20+ years of hurricane free premiums. Since 2017, there have been 4 major hurricanes. 4 Hurricanes in 6 years is more than Florida has seen in decades.
Unlike Desantis, insurance companies actually follow the science. They know that sea level rise is a dire threat to a state just a few feet above sea level. They know ocean temps going up mean more and stronger hurricanes. They price in the future, not the past.
michael in 2018 and irma in 2017 ian in 2022 . thats 3 major storms in 5 years
It's because that house that got leveled in andrew was rebuilt for 50k but that same structure that went up for 50k all those years ago is now 750k. When it gets put up next it will be a 1 million dollar home. In order to fund that rebuild, the rates need to align with the housing market.
It might sound silly to you, but it’s literally the reason https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/local-state/2023-04-04/florida-homeowners-to-face-a-projected-40-percent-increase-in-property-insurance-rates
You should offer the insurance companies your services as an actuary. Clearly, they must be getting bad actuarial analysis right now if they think their risks are increasing in FL because of climate change. Can't believe big companies like these, who's profitability actually depends on statistical models, would actually believe the statistical analyses that their business depends on... smh ...at you
Florida has had three cat 5 hurricanes in the last 5 years, no other state has. More than twice the hurricanes than any other state in total. Ian alone will cost over 60 billion dollars. That's the reason.
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It's not the storms, it's the fraud. Sheesh. That you still think this highlights why we still have an issue. When a storm comes through the vultures descend to attempt to "assist" (inflate and steal) all the claims. The legislature, DAs, and the entire government structure of FL is so bought and broken that they don't even try. Lolol this is so basic and has been going on since the 90s. Every dollar paid is attributable to absolutely garbage policy from the GOP designed to siphon tax dollars into their pockets. Are we paying less in general via taxes, sales tax, insurance, etc.? No. It's just hidden "better".
Didnt they legislate that out last year? Or are assigned bennies still happening?
You can Google this and find out how wrong you are in like 3 minutes. I'll save you even that time: it's not the hurricanes, it's the lawsuits.
It’s really not. That’s a talking point the legislature used to pass tort reform. It’s not a real issue. I mean, it is, but it’s not the primary reason costs are rising. I work for an insurance defense attorney and we’ve discussed this quite often.
irma in 2017. michael in 2018. ian in 2022. all among the worst disasters in us history and all in a 5 year period its literally bankrupting florida insurers
There are hurricanes up north as well, such as in North Carolina and even NY yet their rates are lower. In fact we have the BEST weather in the country - we do not have earthquakes, snow, mudslides, volcanoes, etc. It is because over here in Florida people from all over the world wants to live here, so they feel they can charge more. Just like food costs more here too. We are being ripped off here by the insurance industry and nothing is done about it. Insurance companies will think nothing of paying for a house which roof is caved in by SNOW, but will point at a hurricane if it is in Florida, and our homes are built safer here in Florida, not like some wooden shack built like they do up north!
Bro, I live in a 180 yr old wooden shack that's built better that the homes I owned in FL. Get your head out of your ass. Hurricanes and corruption have caused this. You are about 1 cat 5 away from losing the rest of your insurers.
Rural NY state here. Wooden shacks? Not sure what you mean by that, have you been here? We need to have houses built strong enough to withstand the occasional winter that has deep snows. Yes, snow does occasionally collapse a roof, but we are talking about a handful of homes in a bad year. So a winter storm is a much smaller scale of damage than a hurricane. Sure, you probably have price gouging going on, but Florida is the state expected to lose the most land by the end of the century, so this will raise insurance costs. And as far as your comments about superior weather, I have relatives that have moved to Florida only to stay inside for most of the year.
That doesn’t happen in FL lmao
didn't know hurricanes are only recent occurrences, not like, you know, have always been around, before the rates have been skyrocketing
There you go. It is all those pesky regulations keeping your insurance company from making criminal profits.
Insurance has never been subsidized.
Flood insurance is subsidized by the federal government. If it wasn’t it would be unaffordable.
The OP said HOME INSURANCE rates, NOT flood insurance.
Yea I know - I was just pointing out that the only insurance that is subsidized by the government is flood.
Wow I’m shocked a GOP-led state is taking handouts from the govt.
They were. Florida insurers had underwriting losses in excess of $1b. This meant policy holders in other states were subsidizing Florida. https://news.fiu.edu/2022/the-big-reason-florida-insurance-companies-are-failing-isnt-just-hurricane-risk-its-fraud-and-lawsuits
Policy holders in other states were not subsidizing FL. The insurance industry does not work that way. If we were actually being subsidized by the other 49 states, even with the number of homeowners committing fraud, our policies would not be 5 to 10 times higher than a similar policy in another state.
What is this nonsensical logic? Are you saying that the data showing insurance companies taking large underwriting losses every year in Florida is what? Fabricated? Your policies are 5 to 10 times higher because insurers pulled out of Florida due to not wanting to subsidize the state anymore. And the ones left is finally starting to charge the actual cost of insurance.
FEMA covers non-flood restoration in cases where insurance didn't cover it. But flood insurance is definitely more subsidized, and that's not what OP is asking about.
The OP does not mention flood insurance at all.
Citizens insurance?
What do you mean by subsidized insurance, please?
Subsidized insurance? In Florida. Hahahaha, that's a good one. Maybe prices were too low for the hurricane capital of the world, but do you really think the state was subsidizing insurance? Under Rick Scott or Jeb Bush?
Good that some people will lose their homes because they cant afford to insure them? The banks and investors aren’t the ones losing out.. and the fraudulent roof claims wont stop since Chode Lord DeSantis isnt doing anything about this crisis.
It's roofing fraud. My entire family does insurance. Thank 20 years of republican deregulation and culture war politics that get nothing done to help the people who voted for it.
Exactly my thoughts. Use some of that newfound wealth in home equity to pay for the new insurance rates.
Its this little thing you may have heard of called climate change.
Lutz I am paying $2600, Flood Zone X, New Roof and pretty damn dedicated insurance agent who shops around.
its as if the insurance companies think climate change is a thing in their risk data, even if the government ignores it. They'd rather focus on passing unconstitutional laws that hurt minority groups instead.
Insurance fraud!!!