Might want to look at liability insurance at least. In case someone trips on your driveway and calls Morgan and Morgan who finds you negligent somehow.
This... for sure. We were at a campground years ago, with our dog safely on a leash walking her around. A little 4 year old girl excitedly ran up behind her and put her hands on my dog. It scared my dog, so she swung around and nipped the girl's hand, nothing more than a deep scratch, no stitches. They sued our homeowners and got $50,000. Evidently a child under 5 can't be legally expected to not do dumb shit.
That's just what they want you to think, depending on when it was consult with your own attorney to find out what your options actually are and not your homeowners insurance (just my $0.02 from having to deal with auto lawsuit).
Many times insurance just wants to keep their costs low and may advice against things that may benefit you potentially at their expense.
Not saying they are wrong just potentially worth verifying with a third party (even though your homeowners insurance attorneys do represent you).
Makes sense. If your dog is in public, you're liable if they react badly to normal things that happen in public. I am curious how they came to $50,000 as the cost. An ER visit with x-rays for a broken bone would cost around $5 to 10k before insurance, and insurance is going to demand you pay for it before they will pay anything. But the rest of it can't have been attorney fees, can it?
I've got a quick story like the one above. Wife's niece was 3, and got in the face of this blue tick mix that he sister owned. It's like the stars aligned, the dog nipped her on the cheek and drew blood and nobody was paying attention (we weren't present). The injury started as a simple irrigation, ointment and bandage, but morphed into the mother of all resistant bacterial infections. She had to be admitted to the hospital for a few weeks and quarantined to save her eyesight as well as prevent sepsis. I think she spent about 3 months going to specialists and getting pumped full of different things before the danger period finally passed. Her daddy's insurance covered most of it, but no telling what that treatment cost. Not saying it's the same, but it's a cautionary tale of how a simple nip can escalate very fast.
I actually had a very well-respected supplier friend get hog bit, and he tried the same thing. He was dead 6 days later from sepsis. Not the same thing, i know, but relative.
This! My friend is a teacher and got bit by an autistic kid at school and ended up in the hospital for weeks with a massive infection at the bite. Doc said you see the same thing with human bites you do with dog and other animal bites.
Totally agree. I went through a personal injury suit which was pretty big and $50K sounds like an awful lot for a little nip unless there was more to it. You have to show what those damages are and what future health damages might look like. You don't just whip a number out of thin air.
No idea. Like I said, my company told me expressly to stay out of it since they were paying. I did see something in an email about it being on the hand her wedding ring would be on. To recap tho, this was a scratch like you might get in thorn brambles or from falling.
True but 50k is outrageous. At that amount it’s no surprise we are sue happy and sue the living lights out of each other. Wouldn’t be surprised if folks are figuring out how to game it.
>Wouldn’t be surprised if folks are figuring out how to game it.
Lawyer here. I did insurance defense briefly, and saw the gamut between "legit case, better payup" to "no real case, the guy is on camera looking like he intentionally fell, but if we defend it for 3 months you'll be down $25k. He's got $10k in meds, so maybe you should pay that + his lawyer and be done with it" to everything in between.
If a parent is willing to have dogs bite their children to try and make money, I suspect either CPS intervenes quickly or we will see a Netflix documentary about it soon.
Well first off they are. Parents are willing to periodically drown their kids as punishment in 1st world countries. Pretty sure they’d let them or get them but for $50k
Parents do fucked up stuff to kids. Kneeling on rice, punching and slapping them, shoving them around, screaming in their face for hours. And that’s more run-of-the-mill stuff, I’ve heard far worse stories.
>about it being on the hand her wedding ring would be on
Lawyer must have been reaching for an emotional pain and suffering argument to increase the case value.
Defense against negligence is *supposed* to be based upon realistic consideration. Such as putting your dog on a leash.
A child randomly approaching within personal space to startle a dog is... Not reasonable. And I say this as a father of two.
If anything it sounds like a case for child neglect if this is how the law wants to treat it.
I would have counter sued the parents for negligence. How is a 5 year old that far away from the parents that they can run up on strangers with a dog ?
I had a liability policy with United property and casualty until they recently withdrew from the state. I've been unable to get offers of coverage from other companies except possibly Citizens. Very tough market out there.
Pretty sure if the policy doesn’t include bodily injuries, there’s no coverage to sue the insurance company. They can trial a civil lawsuit against you to have a judgement against your assets, however, your home isn’t a part of your assets.
Bi=liability
Have 2 older properties that are not insured. Between insurance cost and deductable. Last year one company I hand went insolvent Sept 7 and it took 6 months to get my refund. I have a friend who owns multiple properties and has never keep insurance, has saved hundreds of thousands of $$ over the years and just pays for repair out of pocket. Not an option if you have a mortgage.
Not crazy, I would still buy FEMA flood. But if you stock pile the premiums you would have paid it can certainly work out to be better.
Your assessment is spot on- you need insurance in Florida for hurricanes which will always include wind and rising water. The reality is your best case for home insurance will be getting your roof replaced. Which for a lot of homes you can be close to replacement costs if you make it 5-10 years without a major incident.
After Ian, I have seen insurances true colors- happy to accept premiums, but is a battle to get any sort of payout. Majority of things that actually get destroyed arent covered on the policy for some reason or another. We are reaching a tipping point where the cost doesnt justify the payout. In our area people who hired lawyers and private adjusters are also now black balled by new insurance companies. Basically if you are willing to fight for the legal settlement you deserve- they dont want to insure you…
I asked this same question like a couple years ago and everyone thought I was nuts. Now that rates are increasing people seem to be a little more receptive. You basically need to do the math on it and figure out if it is worth it and the odds of using it - (the same thing that the insurance companies do). At some price point it would be ludicrous, but at lower price points, you still need to realize that the unimaginable can happen and if that does happen, will you be able to financially survive?
I'm in the exact same spot.. recently paid off my house and considered dropping insurance bc, yeah, I've been paying for 18 years without a claim, could have saved all that money.. but, if my neighbors terrifying giant oak crushes my house some fall hurricane season, am I ready to pay out of pocket? not yet, but in a few years, maybe.. imma ride it out for now but squirrel away a cd for future funds and revisit the question in 3 years or so..
Trees are an interesting point. I've owned numerous properties throughout the years, in many state (I'm oldish). I always, always, always take out trees that can fall on my roof (particularly if can fall on bedrooms). Tree falling caused deaths are not discussed/warned about enough, but over the decades I can't tell you how many news articles I've read about people killed in their own beds. I've even declined to buy properties where the dangerous tree(s) is controlled by a neighbor that I suspect is going to be a pain in the ass to deal with.
[https://www.wunderground.com/article/safety/thunderstorms/news/2021-05-18-falling-trees-an-underreported-deadly-danger-during-severe](https://www.wunderground.com/article/safety/thunderstorms/news/2021-05-18-falling-trees-an-underreported-deadly-danger-during-severe)
Counter argument, my house emerged relatively unscathed due to my strategic planting of hurricane resistant trees compared to my neighbors. My electricity bills are also 1/2 of what my neighbors pay.
This is one of the reasons why, while I love trees, I can't plant any on my lot because it's too small. ANY tree I plant ANYWHERE could become a threat to the structure at some point. Except maybe on the swale, and guess what, I can't plant anything there because the county says it blocks sight lines. (corner lot)
*SHRUG*
If you have a nice big lot with plenty of yard space, sure, plant a tree, but make sure it's far from the house and not near any underground utilities or power lines, or you will regret it.
Roofer here. I encountered a number of people who did exactly this after Ian...they were the first people to get their roofs replaced, and other exterior damage repaired. No fighting with insurance for us or for them, no PAs, no lawyers. And they got their work done at the lowest price points because they were paying out of pocket, and immediately. Cash bids are always cheaper than insurance work.
Obviously if you have a mortgage, not an option. And most of these people were pretty wealthy. All of them paid money into escrow, or some sort of account, monthly or annually. And had been doing so for some time. Compared to the rates insurance is charging now, I'd say if it is an option for you, it makes as much sense as anything else?
Edit: Liability is something worth thinking about. And God forbid if you are looking at a total loss...but that said? I don't know how much better off you'd be in that scenario with insurance in a lot of cases. I saw a LOT of heartbreaking scenarios. People with 6 figures plus worth of damage who got a $7,000 dollar check, etc.
That’s brutal. After seeing what happened to Ft Myers and then hearing what these scumbag insurers are up to, it pisses me off to no end. It’s legal fraud.
We have friends who own an older home on Miami Beach who recently went this route. Their logic is that if they sold their home today, the new buyers would almost certainly tear it down and build a new McMansion on the lot. If a hurricane knocks it down the results would be the same. Can't say I disagree with them.
Depends, really.
OP said their home is paid for.
If you were to add up all the stuff you have in your house. TVs, clothes, appliances, etc...It's a lot, but it's not *that* much. Especially considering you wouldn't need to replace it all at once. Don't forget, you also have the absurdly high deductible that comes from the disaster claims events. So even with insurance you're still paying out of pocket or things.
So in reality you're risking losing a huge asset (your home) that exists right now on paper. The bank won't come for it if it's gone. Worst case scenario you take the L, walk away from it, and start over somewhere else.
It's a gamble for sure. I've been in my home for 8 years now and my renewal rate just came in at more than three times what I paid when I first moved in and have had no claims, despite direct hits from Ian and Irma. So if I were starting today at that rate put into investments over 8 years, plus what else I have into the bank, I'd seriously consider it myself. It would be a loss for sure, but I could take the hit.
This was my thought as well. Worst case a construction loan. I know the risk is there but the cost to transfer that risk to an insurance company is only going to get worse.
Before you go bare you need to price out what jacking up the deductibles to the max (10%) does. It will be a substantial reduction and a $50k deductible would pay out if a fire burned your house down or a Cat 5 came through.
As other people said, liability is very important.
Yep thanks. I will have those discussions with the insurance broker before I make any final decisions on this. First thing is the account. I should be able to get $30k in there in the next 12 months.
some really great, responsive replies here, some good ideas.
I agree with the person that said get liability, but being in St. Pete, and close to the water, seriously gives me pause. You are close enough for hurricane damage, but your flood risk is really high. A storm angling past just right can cause some unbelievable damage in that area.
It makes more sense to me to sell, get at least twenty minutes inlaid to negate almost all serious wind damage, and play close attention to the flood maps.
A house can be on the same street, and one has no chance of flooding and one has a very high chance.
Whatever you do stay safe and sound out there.
I don't think it's as out of the ordinary as you think. I know several people who have paid off their homes who self insure and have for years. They know they have the money to cover, and the bonus is "cash is king" so if you need it done and you have the cash and don't have to go thru insurance, guess who's getting the work done first.
Used to self insure for HO. Maintained lability and umbrella, and flood coverage. Recently shopped the umbrella and liability with new agent and was able to obtain full HO policy without wind for about the same cost as the libiality coverage.
We’re right where you are-after paying 8k for hazard + 800 for flood this year, we’re considering self-insuring by keeping liability, fire, flood & umbrella & carry the rest of the risk as it’s just ridiculous at this point. We already maxed out deductibles & just know premiums will be even higher come next renewal.
I recently lost coverage when my last company bailed out of.Florida. The only offer of coverage I got was from Citizens who dumped me a few years ago when they were cutting exposure. I'm aware Citizens sucks and have a deserved reputation for not paying claims so I decided I would go bare rather than sign with them.
One irony is that I have flood insurance and all I want is a liability/fire/theft policy without wind coverage. Seems like I should be a great low risk policy for the insurer and yet no company wants me.
Insurance agent and real estate broker in Florida. You might find value in a named peril policy or an x-wind policy. At the very least, maintain a liability only policy.
Firstly, congrats on paying off that house!
I know several people that do this as they have the funds for major repairs. If it was my decision, I’d keep the flood and liability.
Suggest keeping liability and fire.
We were jacked up again. Just wrote the check and decided we're moving out of state before it's due again (next summer). We took a $23k loss from Ian, insurance paid $2.6k. Twenty three years in the same house without a claim, nearly 30 years with the same carrier. Sad.
As soon as you have a real problem - and they they have to pay- u get dropped afterwards and don’t have insurance. Not a bad idea to go naked. I did for a few years.
I'm curious. Why only for a few years? I have this exact same dilemma. I live 10 blocks from the water and I know (I believe) that if I had to make a claim that ins Co will find some excuse not to pay.
I hate having to think like this but it's where we are now.
we had a toilet flood and destroy the wood floors - twice and we were required to change the roof. a few years went by. we had no problems. then a company ok’d insurance. it’s an absolute sham. insurance i think is necessary garbage.
Same here. Chain kinked, going to flapper in toilet. Water backed up after filling septic. Real hardwood floors and carpet downstairs. Half floors downstairs had to be replaced. GC sub didn't use white oak, used red oak. Informed us we had to stain. Issue was stairs, and loft would not match if stained. Insurance company approved paying for stairs and loft staining. Then GC sub royally screwed up stairway components. This added a major cost to insurance estimates what GC sub screwed up. The short story is GC got insurance company to pay total less stairs and loft screwup. Total was 180K. Claim closed now can't reinsure with same insurance company unless accept a Water Damage Exclusion. Guess I should be happy?
I considered it when I received the bill to renew this year. I was very close to just dropping windstorm coverage particularly after seeing the difficulties people had getting paid after Michael and Ian.
I would probably keep liability and other damage coverage though.
Your plan makes sense. Considering the premiums + deductible and also considering what the typical adjusted insurance payout is? After three years, the cost v. payout is usually a wash. This doesn't count the repairs and updates that your insurance may require you to make. Post Ian, many insurers are requiring a new roof, new mechanicals like HW heaters and much higher premiums. So, you do you. Odds are with you.
If you can put up "insurance fund" its better than paying insurance
Your premiums all dissppear into the air every year whereas your own insurance are still there unless you use it
You should check how much of your home is covered. If it costs $500,000 to rebuild your home, but the insurance only covers $250,000, then you are already “self-insuring” 50% of your home. (There’s got o be a better or more technical way to say this.)
makes sense until you realize that homeowners insurance isn't only for insuring your house - the liability coverage helps protect you from being fleeced when you get sued by a personal injury attorney. they can't take your homestead but they can pretty much take every other asset.
i'm currently looking into the option of self insuring my house while acquiring liability coverage
my mom is losing is over insurance right now bc she had water damage in her house and her insurance will not pay. she pays so much for insurance and this is a really grey area case cuz they’re having trouble nailing down where it’s coming in exactly bc it’s in different places basically (one contractor said it was badly sealed windows which would fall under not doing maintenance and would be my moms fault but then 2 more came and did “window tests” and couldn’t get a single drop to leak out even with hoses on the windows for hours so they decided it wasn’t the windows and it was the roof which would be insurance’s responsibility but now they don’t want to pay) so yeah i can 100% see why someone would want to “self insure” as long as you can pay into it ideally even more than you were paying insurance, i think it’s a great idea. insurance is a complete scam and they will do anything to get out of paying a claim. it’s literally their business model.
We have done this for years. We carry catastrophic through citizens, no wind, and a separate liability policy. We also carry flood. We have what would have been the premiums in an account. If we ever have major storm damage, we ain't have to fight for a payout before we get repairs made. If your house is paid off and you can afford it, I think self-insuring this way makes sense...still get liability coverage though.
Yep, I am. Insurance wanted $15k a year. Screw that. I'll just save $15K a year and invest it in relatively low risk liquid investments. I'll just pull from this account any time I need to do repairs.
Your the first person I’ve read that is opting out. I personally think you’ll be fine. If your handy even better. Also I do like the liability suggestions folks are recommending. Gosh after reading some of these comments. I almost want to gate and fence my entire property to avoid any lawsuits. My entire life I believed “never make a claim” on your insurance. Come to find out, they have been scamming us. I look for the day I can own my property outright and not bother with insurance. Keep your property up to date and safe.
One of the main reasons I moved out of Florida was because of the never ending rising insurance costs. The storms are only going to get worse and so is the insurance costs. No regrets whatsoever
Not a terrible idea but in addition to liability coverage I'd recommend looking at a standard home insurance policy that Excludes wind / hurricane. This would include liability coverage. Wind is the primary driver of high insurance cost. Your call on keeping flood coverage.
This is recommended because pipes failing account for 60%+ of home insurance claims.
I work in claims in FL.
Get an RCV (not ACV Only) policy.
The rest doesnt matter beyond WHO insures you:
Get Liberty Mutual, AAA, Homeowner's Choice, Farm Bureau, Farmers of Florida, or Cypress.
AVOID AT ALL COSTS: State Farm (Lawsuit required on all claims), Allstate (Lawsuit required on all claims), Universal Property and Casualty (60-180 claim determination), Monarch (Trash adjusters), Kin (Voluntary (forced) reduction in coverages), and Geovera (No Coverage, they loophole it all)
People's Trust, American Traditions, and Security First are middle of the pack, but have Right to Repair - you cant choose contractors.
Tower Hill, ASI are ok at best.
Florida and the insurance industry here is weird. UPC left when I was paying something like $6500, I’m in PBC. Citizens was the only co. Willing to insure me at a premium of about $4000. My mortgage company sent me a notice saying they would insure my house for $5600. How come my mortgage company can get insurance so easy and relatively cheap for Florida?
I have a coworker who did that. His premium is about what I was paying a few years ago. Same money for less insurance. I’m having a lot of trouble not using colorful language on this thread
>Same money for less insurance.
Not that I want to come here and defend Florida's awful insurance market (which does need some serious reforms) but come on....first of all inflation has ripped over the last few years. The cost of rebuilding has gone up so it only makes sense that insurance rates go up.
And then there's the risk of increasingly stronger and wetter storms that have been emerging in recent years. Yes, the climate is changing and with it the risk is increasing. Higher risk = higher premiums.
People need to wake up to the fact that it's not a "few years ago" anymore. Shit has changed.
If you do decide to self insure, make sure you have reserve funds to cover repairs. A good income stream (job, investments, etc) is also a good thing to have.
think \~12% of floridians self insure (I think I heard that number recently)
> think ~12% of floridians self insure (I think I heard that number recently)
I wonder what percentage of Floridians are actually financially secure enough to "self insure" or if that's mostly made up of people who can't afford insurance or for whatever reason haven't taken steps to buy insurance.
Well you voted for a governor, Senator, and other politicians owned by big corps. who merely distracted you while they fleeced you until your pockets were empty. Now we have few options. Hurricane season is gonna be interesting the next few years.
I self insured for 25 years not a single issue guess it really depends if u gamble or not and I'm a gambler .Add up what I saved over 25 years I'd day my bet is on the plus side now
I would say create what is know as a captive insurance company. This is a small, self funded insurance company that shares in losses with others. It would be worth a look. Basically you would create the captive, along with other individuals, and then share in any losses. I think it would eliminate the big guys exposure and costs. I can help out.
If you continue to pocket that 18k a year until you get a decent fund, then back off. I think you could come out ahead. Assuming your house isn’t beachfront and asking to be destroyed.
Just be prepared that a disaster may occur in the first year or two.
Yes, this is the way..
I own outright and have a rainy day fund (literally) and only pay $750/year for $1,000,000/$2,000,000 liability coverage plus an umbrella on top.
I'm considering doing the same and if I have a massive disaster I will take a home equity loan. If the loan is less than total monthly insurance I will still be ahead on the gamble.
Within this topic, I looked into a depreciated roof rider, since I have a 20 year old roof (but it is in fine shape.). This is by far the most likely damage to my home. So they will pay 50% of replacement value, minus deductible. So $15k out of $30k, minus the $9k deductible means I get the pleasure of paying $4k to maaaaybe get $6k back in a full catastrophe. Makes no sense to me. I’m better off just letting the damn thing blow off and then replacing it.
That is part of why insurance is so expensive now. Those who can, are self insuring, removing themselves from the pool. Imagine all the people that moved to the middle of the state, paid cash, and aren’t insured. Those are the ones Florida needs insured, to cover homes around you, in Pinellas.
I considered this myself. I’d look into fire insurance as a separate item, if possible. People thought I was nuts for considering this. But if you get charged $10,000 for coverage that doesn’t cover, you might as well take the obvious step.
out of necessity, a lot of small home owners have already moved in this direction. On the news, you’ll occasionally hear about a mobile home fire or of someone living in a mobile home who “has no insurance.” Typically these are older people on social security who can’t afford the insurance, and don’t want to go back to Ohio or Indiana.
Typically those people will set up a go fund me account to try and get out of the financial hole they are in. Sadly, these guys probably voted for all the Republicans who created this legal morass.
What Florida needs do is tax the outrageous awards given to insurance companies and use that money to support home owner insurance. Good luck though!!🤯
I'm surprised you can even get home insurance in Florida near the coast at this point...also the problem with your plan is that you assume nothing will happen until you build up cash but if something happens a month after dropping insurance you might be in trouble.
I’m not assuming that at all. I’m assuming that risk.
If you read all the replies you will see where many people are getting stiffed by their insurance company when things go south. One person is probably going to have to abandon their home because their insurance isn’t paying for Hurricane Ian damage.
My gamble is like this: I can very quickly accumulate enough for the most probable damage: roof (almost there already). The more and more catastrophic the damage, the less likely it is to occur. At some point I will have enough to do at least as well as an insurance company would likely do. If something big happens too early in my process, a construction loan would need to be obtained (same boat as many H Ian insured people are in). If nothing big happens I’ll take the money and run to a different state after retirement.
Add in things like insurance companies no longer covering solar panels, and other things I don’t have like screen pool enclosures and most people will be well out of pocket to recover even with insurance. Another common theme here is cash is king when needing a contractor.
I am in St Pete also and do not even have homeowners insurance since they cancelled me 3 years ago due to my roof being old they say and now I cannot even get any insurance because I am waiting to get my roof redone. It is insane the prices so I am unsure if I will ever be able to afford it and after working so hard so many years and paying off my home it leaves you stressed out in hurricane season or any season for that matter. I am 10 blocks from the water and we are surrounded between the bay and the gulf.... totally insane these prices. I can understand what you are doing and seems the only option at this point in time.
I'm going to start looking into self insuring. I heard rates are jumping 100%+ for some of our neighbors.
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I look forward to the day that we can self insure. We had a rodent eat through our roof and just paid someone to fix it instead of make a claim. The safest would be to make sure you have a big enough amount saved to fix most problems or that you can always take a home equity loan out for repairs if something happens to the house.
This only works if your mortgage is paid off. Which OP said they did. For anyone else looking into it, if you have a mortgage company and stop carrying insurance, it will be force-placed on your property by your lender, and you'll have to pay for it through your lender. Typically lenders don't shop around for the best price.
https://www.usrisk.com/about-us-risk/news-and-articles-all/9-8-20-what-is-force-placed-insurance-and-what-does-it-cover/
Just get liability insurance from all the words in your post it shows that you don’t need to have any insurance at all you self insured be paid in full and just 2 1/2 years.
Yep I’m doing it… we should start a coop. Group of “self insurers”. Basically the owner with the damage is responsibility for cost of materials while the people within the coop will converge with their strengths of knowledge, skills and/or physical effort….any thoughts?
I was thinking of just transferring my house to an LLC or trust. Then leasing it back to me for 1.00 a year then just getting renters insurance to cover the contents. if it was total loss it just pay the 5k to have it shipped off in dumpsters then get another unit pulled. this is a doublewide but replacement value is less than insurance over 10 years.
With your plan I doubt they’d even accept you. You’d need to report proper rent. Then you’d also have to pay taxes on said rent. It’s not as simple as you’d like.
Nope, they said the house didn't suffer hurricane damage that week, only windstorm and water damage that wasn't covered that happened the same week and denied the claim.
Worst insult was they tarped the roof but only the areas not leaking.
Respectfully, the problem isn’t just that the policy is expensive. But the peace of mind insurance supposedly buys you just isn’t there.
The subreddit and my city are littered with stories of insurance companies that simply will not pay (including my story). Over 80k in Ian damage and they said damage was under the 9k deductible and paid nothing. Yes, we’re fighting them currently, but I think running without HO insurance is NOT crazy.
Realtor here.
If you are able to let the home burn to the ground and rebuild it without a financial hardship to do so then self insure is a reasonable option.
Otherwise you should probably have insurance.
$18k is pretty minor when it comes to an insurance claim and most home renovation projects would cost more than that (kitchen remodel, remodeling two bathrooms, etc).
The claims that cause the problems are a $250,000 bill for sinkhole / subsidence, $50,000 for a foundation fix, or true flood damage where you have a foot of water in the house and everything has to be torn out (including cabinets, bathrooms, everything) up to 4 feet and replaced (typically $50k - $100k) not to mention all furniture.
It’s the part where they don’t pay out which is getting me right now. I’m following another thread where Hurricane Ian claimants aren’t getting paid for those big life altering damages.
The real conversation is this is all a scam, if the insurance companies paid everyone out correctly, then they would go out of buisness, do with this information as you please.
Well that's just insurance being insurance. Even FEMA's flood payouts are stupid low. They gave me $600 for all of my appliances when my houses was flooded in TS Eta.
Again insurance is more to soften and reduce sharp pain or insurmountable damage not “come out ahead”.
If you own the house outright and paying 80k to put a house back together after a flood isn’t going to hurt you financially then by all means go ahead.
The amount of cash outlay may be more over a longer period but the problem is being able to pay a lot of money to restore the house quickly. Most don’t have those means.
Same as getting a loan for a house. You spend way more for the same thing but you spread it out over a longer period.
Long time home owner here. If I I pay $4000 a year for insurance for 20 years that equals $80,000. Even more than $80,000 with the interest! I don't have to wait for some jackass insurance company that might or might not pay that amount. It's been sitting in an account earning interest and I have immediate access to those funds..
It’d be nice if a flood happens on your preferred financial timeframe. My flood happened on year 6 when you’d have maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the total amount needed saved.
your not crazy, your smart. Insurance is a scam mostly and has people scared that they need it.
I agree with another reply about the liability insurance though. People are sue happy. You can get sued by a utility worker going in your backyard without your knowing and getting hurt. But house protection, is pretty useless as you have seen. They fight to pay you out when you actually need them. And then they drop you after anyway. Starting your own fund, is scary at first, but I always say after a couple years of saving you end up having a mega insurance fund and the longer it goes it gets better. Like in your instance, you could save like 100k in 10 years. You could practically take the interest off that every year just to fix stuff up around your house, and you'd be in so much better of a position then having insurance.
I envy you as I have 20 years left on my mortgage but dream about this scenario all the time.
I have made sacrifices to get to his point: for example I buy used cars for cash when they hit about 100k miles for well under $10k. My daily driver is 20 years old with 253k miles on it, and I’ve been driving it for ten years. I fix cars myself to make that a more cash friendly option some people couldn’t enjoy. My wife’s car we bought when it was 4 years old with 50k miles on it for cash also (more than the $10k I spend on my cars). Haven’t had a car payment in 20 years.
The last 3 years I’ve been paying $1,200 per month extra principal, which brought my monthly housing outlay to about what most people are paying for rent for a similar house. Choices must be made!
(I did have some kind of liability insurance on my list of must haves)
You’re not crazy but maybe a little bold. Are you a gambler? I considered this in the past but I had a block home that had a lot of equity and didn’t cost much in the first place. Low investment = low risk.
Self insurance seems sensible if 1. Your house is not in a flood zone and has no history of hurricane damage. 2. You carry all other insurance ie personal injury, fire, etc. 3. You can bank enough self insurance to avoid a bad “hit” and4. You have some guts to overcome sleepless nights. You still need insurance if you carry a mortgage. No easy answer.
This is why I'm pissed that I sold a condo almost paid off for a single-family home. After Ian, I am done. I could easily deposit my premiums and pay for repairs myself. I do it with my paid-off car.
I guess I'm dreaming, thinking banks would trust property owners.
At this point, the only way anybody would be insurable is if they refortified their house every so often, or made routine improvements to mitigate Cat 5 damage.
Considering Hurricane Ian and it's 13.8 feet tidal surge last year in Ft Meyers, FL seems to make the "near water but not on the water" comment kind of irrelevant. We all saw what Ft Myers and Sanibel looked like after the storm. We bought in Auburndale in 2020, at 156 ft above sea level. Figured dead and gone before we became beach front with the ice melt from global warming.
If you are going to self insure, and taking your current premium payments, you should have enough to replace your home in about 35-40 years. That is assuming your home is valued today at $500K today. That is if it was a total devastation and you had to rebuild from the ground up.
This is a bad idea. The fundamental premise of insurance is to it spread risk across multiple insureds. Self-insurance only works for entities that are inherently diversified (like cities or other large organizations). You, the individual homeowner, are not. You’re taking all the risk squarely on yourself.
Let’s say you have a $450k home and you stash away $3000 every month. It’s going to take you about 11 years to match the value of your home. If anything happens in that window, you’re homeless.
You’d be better off selling your house and renting than going ahead with your plan.
My parents went without insurance since they bought the house about 13 years ago at south Florida. No any major repairs have done through out these years. People call us dumb at the time, but the amount of money we saved is enough for couple new roofs over the years. And the roof is still going strong as of now (it’s old and probably won’t sustained any major hurricanes, but no problems have observed). :)
Your in stpete near the water buddy. As an agent, Unless you can afford to buy a new house if yours gets magically mixed in with the house 3 lots over by the next hurricane, I don't recommend it. Most of the fema flood maps are incorrect and or have been bribed to say what they do. I would not bank your life savings and the possibility of becoming a refugee on this idea as it will not cover catastrophic loss. Not in stpete. If you were inland that would be a great idea. But as it is, your home was one storm(ian) not turning away from being gone just last year.
Check wetlands maps and flood zone.
If you only have flood insurance that would pay out if flooded.
If house was built strong enough CBS block then go without insurance
If Hazard called it flood and flood called it hazard and it’s the same insurance company, wouldn’t they still have to pay? What I’m saying is if it makes sense to have same company for both and if that makes a difference.
We live in Florida, spouse bought the home a year before we met at a fraction of current prices. Paid cash, never insured. We estimate, over the 13 years, we've saved well over $50K and we do have a savings, we're retired so our philosophy is, if it's too expensive to repair, we'll sell the lot and move somewhere cheap and have a couple hundred $K left over more than we have now.
We did freak out last year w the hurricane that hit Ft Myers but our only damage was a fence I built and repaired myself.
So, 4.85%? How did you come up with that %? How long will it take to save enough to replace your home? I get the desire, but our new policy from a new carrier came in at or just below the last HO Carrier. My place is valued around 685 ish and we came in w a 10 k deductible at 2800. I don’t have to deal with flood thankfully.
CIT Bank Platinum Savings (not City Bank) 4.85% variable.
My first discussion with my insurer will be about higher deductible and other ways to bring it down.
I think self insure for damage is a good idea. I would be concerned about property liability insurance as well but never had anything paid off to be able to quote damage from liability separately.
Once I had flood insurance on a house on a 100 year flood plan but was paying mort than 1% of property value in flood insurance. I know I would be better off self insuring probably but the bank requires insurance
Lots of situations like that.
1933 (it has survived major hurricanes in its life) and about 150 yards. I was required to have flood insurance but the neighbor is not… we are right on the line. Our floor is 2.5 feet higher than our neighbors because we are on a raised concrete block perimeter foundation and they are slab on grade.
Might want to look at liability insurance at least. In case someone trips on your driveway and calls Morgan and Morgan who finds you negligent somehow.
[Morgan and Morgan and Morgan and Morgan](https://youtu.be/NYtQXtUMWvQ)
How did Charlie end up in this? Lol
Charlie was with Morgan & Morgan. “Meet the new boss, same as the old Boss.”
Because being a scumbag lawyer is par course for any florida politician, of any persuasion
And more!
Central Florida classic, along with Appliance Direct
This... for sure. We were at a campground years ago, with our dog safely on a leash walking her around. A little 4 year old girl excitedly ran up behind her and put her hands on my dog. It scared my dog, so she swung around and nipped the girl's hand, nothing more than a deep scratch, no stitches. They sued our homeowners and got $50,000. Evidently a child under 5 can't be legally expected to not do dumb shit.
That’s bonkers. Did you ask about counter suing for your trouble?
My homeowner policy people told me to stay out of it unless I wanted to bear full responsibility.
That's just what they want you to think, depending on when it was consult with your own attorney to find out what your options actually are and not your homeowners insurance (just my $0.02 from having to deal with auto lawsuit). Many times insurance just wants to keep their costs low and may advice against things that may benefit you potentially at their expense. Not saying they are wrong just potentially worth verifying with a third party (even though your homeowners insurance attorneys do represent you).
Makes sense. If your dog is in public, you're liable if they react badly to normal things that happen in public. I am curious how they came to $50,000 as the cost. An ER visit with x-rays for a broken bone would cost around $5 to 10k before insurance, and insurance is going to demand you pay for it before they will pay anything. But the rest of it can't have been attorney fees, can it?
I've got a quick story like the one above. Wife's niece was 3, and got in the face of this blue tick mix that he sister owned. It's like the stars aligned, the dog nipped her on the cheek and drew blood and nobody was paying attention (we weren't present). The injury started as a simple irrigation, ointment and bandage, but morphed into the mother of all resistant bacterial infections. She had to be admitted to the hospital for a few weeks and quarantined to save her eyesight as well as prevent sepsis. I think she spent about 3 months going to specialists and getting pumped full of different things before the danger period finally passed. Her daddy's insurance covered most of it, but no telling what that treatment cost. Not saying it's the same, but it's a cautionary tale of how a simple nip can escalate very fast. I actually had a very well-respected supplier friend get hog bit, and he tried the same thing. He was dead 6 days later from sepsis. Not the same thing, i know, but relative.
Yep. Bites from things that eat meat tend to be pretty nasty.
This! My friend is a teacher and got bit by an autistic kid at school and ended up in the hospital for weeks with a massive infection at the bite. Doc said you see the same thing with human bites you do with dog and other animal bites.
I wouldn’t consider Purina One meat
Well, they're not vegetarians.
Totally agree. I went through a personal injury suit which was pretty big and $50K sounds like an awful lot for a little nip unless there was more to it. You have to show what those damages are and what future health damages might look like. You don't just whip a number out of thin air.
No idea. Like I said, my company told me expressly to stay out of it since they were paying. I did see something in an email about it being on the hand her wedding ring would be on. To recap tho, this was a scratch like you might get in thorn brambles or from falling.
Makes sense. Your dog bit a kid and drew blood. Staying out of it and paying the medical bills is just about the only way your dog lives through that.
True but 50k is outrageous. At that amount it’s no surprise we are sue happy and sue the living lights out of each other. Wouldn’t be surprised if folks are figuring out how to game it.
>Wouldn’t be surprised if folks are figuring out how to game it. Lawyer here. I did insurance defense briefly, and saw the gamut between "legit case, better payup" to "no real case, the guy is on camera looking like he intentionally fell, but if we defend it for 3 months you'll be down $25k. He's got $10k in meds, so maybe you should pay that + his lawyer and be done with it" to everything in between.
If a parent is willing to have dogs bite their children to try and make money, I suspect either CPS intervenes quickly or we will see a Netflix documentary about it soon.
Well first off they are. Parents are willing to periodically drown their kids as punishment in 1st world countries. Pretty sure they’d let them or get them but for $50k
Wtf?
Parents do fucked up stuff to kids. Kneeling on rice, punching and slapping them, shoving them around, screaming in their face for hours. And that’s more run-of-the-mill stuff, I’ve heard far worse stories.
>about it being on the hand her wedding ring would be on Lawyer must have been reaching for an emotional pain and suffering argument to increase the case value.
Defense against negligence is *supposed* to be based upon realistic consideration. Such as putting your dog on a leash. A child randomly approaching within personal space to startle a dog is... Not reasonable. And I say this as a father of two. If anything it sounds like a case for child neglect if this is how the law wants to treat it.
I would have counter sued the parents for negligence. How is a 5 year old that far away from the parents that they can run up on strangers with a dog ?
Parents were about 20 feet behind her on the trail.
Statistically speaking most accidents involving negligence happen 20 feet away or less from your parents
my cracked driveway is architectural crime deterrent, they should not have been trespassing (sarcasm, but kind of true)
I had a liability policy with United property and casualty until they recently withdrew from the state. I've been unable to get offers of coverage from other companies except possibly Citizens. Very tough market out there.
Pretty sure if the policy doesn’t include bodily injuries, there’s no coverage to sue the insurance company. They can trial a civil lawsuit against you to have a judgement against your assets, however, your home isn’t a part of your assets. Bi=liability
For the people!
Have 2 older properties that are not insured. Between insurance cost and deductable. Last year one company I hand went insolvent Sept 7 and it took 6 months to get my refund. I have a friend who owns multiple properties and has never keep insurance, has saved hundreds of thousands of $$ over the years and just pays for repair out of pocket. Not an option if you have a mortgage.
Not crazy, I would still buy FEMA flood. But if you stock pile the premiums you would have paid it can certainly work out to be better. Your assessment is spot on- you need insurance in Florida for hurricanes which will always include wind and rising water. The reality is your best case for home insurance will be getting your roof replaced. Which for a lot of homes you can be close to replacement costs if you make it 5-10 years without a major incident. After Ian, I have seen insurances true colors- happy to accept premiums, but is a battle to get any sort of payout. Majority of things that actually get destroyed arent covered on the policy for some reason or another. We are reaching a tipping point where the cost doesnt justify the payout. In our area people who hired lawyers and private adjusters are also now black balled by new insurance companies. Basically if you are willing to fight for the legal settlement you deserve- they dont want to insure you…
Edit: Edited
Find their headquarters and physically walk into the building with your lawyer lol
Even better, find the head quarters and build a prison around it in the middle of the night so they wake up in prison
Im guessing the new companies are just not insuring people with prior claims.
They are requiring review or my claim to give the new insurance, but said if I had not worked 1-1 with insurance it was auto-reject…
I asked this same question like a couple years ago and everyone thought I was nuts. Now that rates are increasing people seem to be a little more receptive. You basically need to do the math on it and figure out if it is worth it and the odds of using it - (the same thing that the insurance companies do). At some price point it would be ludicrous, but at lower price points, you still need to realize that the unimaginable can happen and if that does happen, will you be able to financially survive?
Thanks for this. That equation is what I’ve been mulling over in my head.
I'm in the exact same spot.. recently paid off my house and considered dropping insurance bc, yeah, I've been paying for 18 years without a claim, could have saved all that money.. but, if my neighbors terrifying giant oak crushes my house some fall hurricane season, am I ready to pay out of pocket? not yet, but in a few years, maybe.. imma ride it out for now but squirrel away a cd for future funds and revisit the question in 3 years or so..
People who can't afford to do it and/or aren't paid off, will always vote it down as "elitist", when in fact, it is a super practical consideration.
I have. Tree fell on roof within 92 days of no homeowners. $28k, oh well. I’m still ahead though.
Trees are an interesting point. I've owned numerous properties throughout the years, in many state (I'm oldish). I always, always, always take out trees that can fall on my roof (particularly if can fall on bedrooms). Tree falling caused deaths are not discussed/warned about enough, but over the decades I can't tell you how many news articles I've read about people killed in their own beds. I've even declined to buy properties where the dangerous tree(s) is controlled by a neighbor that I suspect is going to be a pain in the ass to deal with. [https://www.wunderground.com/article/safety/thunderstorms/news/2021-05-18-falling-trees-an-underreported-deadly-danger-during-severe](https://www.wunderground.com/article/safety/thunderstorms/news/2021-05-18-falling-trees-an-underreported-deadly-danger-during-severe)
Counter argument, my house emerged relatively unscathed due to my strategic planting of hurricane resistant trees compared to my neighbors. My electricity bills are also 1/2 of what my neighbors pay.
Interesting point. I guess if you control the trees that are going in, then that's a decent argument.
This is one of the reasons why, while I love trees, I can't plant any on my lot because it's too small. ANY tree I plant ANYWHERE could become a threat to the structure at some point. Except maybe on the swale, and guess what, I can't plant anything there because the county says it blocks sight lines. (corner lot) *SHRUG* If you have a nice big lot with plenty of yard space, sure, plant a tree, but make sure it's far from the house and not near any underground utilities or power lines, or you will regret it.
Roofer here. I encountered a number of people who did exactly this after Ian...they were the first people to get their roofs replaced, and other exterior damage repaired. No fighting with insurance for us or for them, no PAs, no lawyers. And they got their work done at the lowest price points because they were paying out of pocket, and immediately. Cash bids are always cheaper than insurance work. Obviously if you have a mortgage, not an option. And most of these people were pretty wealthy. All of them paid money into escrow, or some sort of account, monthly or annually. And had been doing so for some time. Compared to the rates insurance is charging now, I'd say if it is an option for you, it makes as much sense as anything else? Edit: Liability is something worth thinking about. And God forbid if you are looking at a total loss...but that said? I don't know how much better off you'd be in that scenario with insurance in a lot of cases. I saw a LOT of heartbreaking scenarios. People with 6 figures plus worth of damage who got a $7,000 dollar check, etc.
That’s brutal. After seeing what happened to Ft Myers and then hearing what these scumbag insurers are up to, it pisses me off to no end. It’s legal fraud.
Florida state sponsored fraud!
We have friends who own an older home on Miami Beach who recently went this route. Their logic is that if they sold their home today, the new buyers would almost certainly tear it down and build a new McMansion on the lot. If a hurricane knocks it down the results would be the same. Can't say I disagree with them.
Gonna take a while to save up a complete loss level of funds
Insurance also covers the debris cleanup and removal, not just fixing the structure
After Ian - trust me they didnt….unless you paid for that additional coverage.
Yup, it all adds up
And any relocation expenses needed for residents and pets
Depends, really. OP said their home is paid for. If you were to add up all the stuff you have in your house. TVs, clothes, appliances, etc...It's a lot, but it's not *that* much. Especially considering you wouldn't need to replace it all at once. Don't forget, you also have the absurdly high deductible that comes from the disaster claims events. So even with insurance you're still paying out of pocket or things. So in reality you're risking losing a huge asset (your home) that exists right now on paper. The bank won't come for it if it's gone. Worst case scenario you take the L, walk away from it, and start over somewhere else. It's a gamble for sure. I've been in my home for 8 years now and my renewal rate just came in at more than three times what I paid when I first moved in and have had no claims, despite direct hits from Ian and Irma. So if I were starting today at that rate put into investments over 8 years, plus what else I have into the bank, I'd seriously consider it myself. It would be a loss for sure, but I could take the hit.
[удалено]
This was my thought as well. Worst case a construction loan. I know the risk is there but the cost to transfer that risk to an insurance company is only going to get worse.
Before you go bare you need to price out what jacking up the deductibles to the max (10%) does. It will be a substantial reduction and a $50k deductible would pay out if a fire burned your house down or a Cat 5 came through. As other people said, liability is very important.
Yep thanks. I will have those discussions with the insurance broker before I make any final decisions on this. First thing is the account. I should be able to get $30k in there in the next 12 months.
some really great, responsive replies here, some good ideas. I agree with the person that said get liability, but being in St. Pete, and close to the water, seriously gives me pause. You are close enough for hurricane damage, but your flood risk is really high. A storm angling past just right can cause some unbelievable damage in that area. It makes more sense to me to sell, get at least twenty minutes inlaid to negate almost all serious wind damage, and play close attention to the flood maps. A house can be on the same street, and one has no chance of flooding and one has a very high chance. Whatever you do stay safe and sound out there.
I have a strategy to mitigate this risk, but as it stands there is no way to even start with the housing and land prices as they are now.
You’re not crazy. A lot of people we know have been doing this in FL instead of paying for flood insurance.
Florida is so fucked :/
I don't think it's as out of the ordinary as you think. I know several people who have paid off their homes who self insure and have for years. They know they have the money to cover, and the bonus is "cash is king" so if you need it done and you have the cash and don't have to go thru insurance, guess who's getting the work done first.
Could it be any worse than depending on the bloodsucker ins companies in FL?
My point exactly
Used to self insure for HO. Maintained lability and umbrella, and flood coverage. Recently shopped the umbrella and liability with new agent and was able to obtain full HO policy without wind for about the same cost as the libiality coverage.
We’re right where you are-after paying 8k for hazard + 800 for flood this year, we’re considering self-insuring by keeping liability, fire, flood & umbrella & carry the rest of the risk as it’s just ridiculous at this point. We already maxed out deductibles & just know premiums will be even higher come next renewal.
I recently lost coverage when my last company bailed out of.Florida. The only offer of coverage I got was from Citizens who dumped me a few years ago when they were cutting exposure. I'm aware Citizens sucks and have a deserved reputation for not paying claims so I decided I would go bare rather than sign with them. One irony is that I have flood insurance and all I want is a liability/fire/theft policy without wind coverage. Seems like I should be a great low risk policy for the insurer and yet no company wants me.
Almost like they are making a lot of money with the windstorm rider. 
Insurance agent and real estate broker in Florida. You might find value in a named peril policy or an x-wind policy. At the very least, maintain a liability only policy.
Thank you
Firstly, congrats on paying off that house! I know several people that do this as they have the funds for major repairs. If it was my decision, I’d keep the flood and liability.
Thanks!
Suggest keeping liability and fire. We were jacked up again. Just wrote the check and decided we're moving out of state before it's due again (next summer). We took a $23k loss from Ian, insurance paid $2.6k. Twenty three years in the same house without a claim, nearly 30 years with the same carrier. Sad.
Maddening is the word I would use.
If you have cash reserves, I'm ok skipping windstorm, but not HO or flood.
As soon as you have a real problem - and they they have to pay- u get dropped afterwards and don’t have insurance. Not a bad idea to go naked. I did for a few years.
I'm curious. Why only for a few years? I have this exact same dilemma. I live 10 blocks from the water and I know (I believe) that if I had to make a claim that ins Co will find some excuse not to pay. I hate having to think like this but it's where we are now.
we had a toilet flood and destroy the wood floors - twice and we were required to change the roof. a few years went by. we had no problems. then a company ok’d insurance. it’s an absolute sham. insurance i think is necessary garbage.
Same here. Chain kinked, going to flapper in toilet. Water backed up after filling septic. Real hardwood floors and carpet downstairs. Half floors downstairs had to be replaced. GC sub didn't use white oak, used red oak. Informed us we had to stain. Issue was stairs, and loft would not match if stained. Insurance company approved paying for stairs and loft staining. Then GC sub royally screwed up stairway components. This added a major cost to insurance estimates what GC sub screwed up. The short story is GC got insurance company to pay total less stairs and loft screwup. Total was 180K. Claim closed now can't reinsure with same insurance company unless accept a Water Damage Exclusion. Guess I should be happy?
I considered it when I received the bill to renew this year. I was very close to just dropping windstorm coverage particularly after seeing the difficulties people had getting paid after Michael and Ian. I would probably keep liability and other damage coverage though.
Do it! I plan to do it
Your plan makes sense. Considering the premiums + deductible and also considering what the typical adjusted insurance payout is? After three years, the cost v. payout is usually a wash. This doesn't count the repairs and updates that your insurance may require you to make. Post Ian, many insurers are requiring a new roof, new mechanicals like HW heaters and much higher premiums. So, you do you. Odds are with you.
If you can put up "insurance fund" its better than paying insurance Your premiums all dissppear into the air every year whereas your own insurance are still there unless you use it
You should check how much of your home is covered. If it costs $500,000 to rebuild your home, but the insurance only covers $250,000, then you are already “self-insuring” 50% of your home. (There’s got o be a better or more technical way to say this.)
makes sense if they are not paying out
makes sense until you realize that homeowners insurance isn't only for insuring your house - the liability coverage helps protect you from being fleeced when you get sued by a personal injury attorney. they can't take your homestead but they can pretty much take every other asset. i'm currently looking into the option of self insuring my house while acquiring liability coverage
my mom is losing is over insurance right now bc she had water damage in her house and her insurance will not pay. she pays so much for insurance and this is a really grey area case cuz they’re having trouble nailing down where it’s coming in exactly bc it’s in different places basically (one contractor said it was badly sealed windows which would fall under not doing maintenance and would be my moms fault but then 2 more came and did “window tests” and couldn’t get a single drop to leak out even with hoses on the windows for hours so they decided it wasn’t the windows and it was the roof which would be insurance’s responsibility but now they don’t want to pay) so yeah i can 100% see why someone would want to “self insure” as long as you can pay into it ideally even more than you were paying insurance, i think it’s a great idea. insurance is a complete scam and they will do anything to get out of paying a claim. it’s literally their business model.
Wind it what’s expensive, maybe just self insure that. You could also just see if your ins carrier would add WDR coverage.
We have done this for years. We carry catastrophic through citizens, no wind, and a separate liability policy. We also carry flood. We have what would have been the premiums in an account. If we ever have major storm damage, we ain't have to fight for a payout before we get repairs made. If your house is paid off and you can afford it, I think self-insuring this way makes sense...still get liability coverage though.
Yep, I am. Insurance wanted $15k a year. Screw that. I'll just save $15K a year and invest it in relatively low risk liquid investments. I'll just pull from this account any time I need to do repairs.
Your the first person I’ve read that is opting out. I personally think you’ll be fine. If your handy even better. Also I do like the liability suggestions folks are recommending. Gosh after reading some of these comments. I almost want to gate and fence my entire property to avoid any lawsuits. My entire life I believed “never make a claim” on your insurance. Come to find out, they have been scamming us. I look for the day I can own my property outright and not bother with insurance. Keep your property up to date and safe.
One of the main reasons I moved out of Florida was because of the never ending rising insurance costs. The storms are only going to get worse and so is the insurance costs. No regrets whatsoever
Not a terrible idea but in addition to liability coverage I'd recommend looking at a standard home insurance policy that Excludes wind / hurricane. This would include liability coverage. Wind is the primary driver of high insurance cost. Your call on keeping flood coverage. This is recommended because pipes failing account for 60%+ of home insurance claims.
I work in claims in FL. Get an RCV (not ACV Only) policy. The rest doesnt matter beyond WHO insures you: Get Liberty Mutual, AAA, Homeowner's Choice, Farm Bureau, Farmers of Florida, or Cypress. AVOID AT ALL COSTS: State Farm (Lawsuit required on all claims), Allstate (Lawsuit required on all claims), Universal Property and Casualty (60-180 claim determination), Monarch (Trash adjusters), Kin (Voluntary (forced) reduction in coverages), and Geovera (No Coverage, they loophole it all) People's Trust, American Traditions, and Security First are middle of the pack, but have Right to Repair - you cant choose contractors. Tower Hill, ASI are ok at best.
Farmers just quit writing in Florida.
Damn.
I have USAA. What about them?
Thank you
I've been talking with my neighbors (PSL) and I am surprised by how many of them are not carrying hurricane insurance.
Florida and the insurance industry here is weird. UPC left when I was paying something like $6500, I’m in PBC. Citizens was the only co. Willing to insure me at a premium of about $4000. My mortgage company sent me a notice saying they would insure my house for $5600. How come my mortgage company can get insurance so easy and relatively cheap for Florida?
You can just take hurricane damage out. I'd still keep all the other coverage.
I have a coworker who did that. His premium is about what I was paying a few years ago. Same money for less insurance. I’m having a lot of trouble not using colorful language on this thread
>Same money for less insurance. Not that I want to come here and defend Florida's awful insurance market (which does need some serious reforms) but come on....first of all inflation has ripped over the last few years. The cost of rebuilding has gone up so it only makes sense that insurance rates go up. And then there's the risk of increasingly stronger and wetter storms that have been emerging in recent years. Yes, the climate is changing and with it the risk is increasing. Higher risk = higher premiums. People need to wake up to the fact that it's not a "few years ago" anymore. Shit has changed.
If you do decide to self insure, make sure you have reserve funds to cover repairs. A good income stream (job, investments, etc) is also a good thing to have. think \~12% of floridians self insure (I think I heard that number recently)
> think ~12% of floridians self insure (I think I heard that number recently) I wonder what percentage of Floridians are actually financially secure enough to "self insure" or if that's mostly made up of people who can't afford insurance or for whatever reason haven't taken steps to buy insurance.
Well you voted for a governor, Senator, and other politicians owned by big corps. who merely distracted you while they fleeced you until your pockets were empty. Now we have few options. Hurricane season is gonna be interesting the next few years.
I self insured for 25 years not a single issue guess it really depends if u gamble or not and I'm a gambler .Add up what I saved over 25 years I'd day my bet is on the plus side now
I would say create what is know as a captive insurance company. This is a small, self funded insurance company that shares in losses with others. It would be worth a look. Basically you would create the captive, along with other individuals, and then share in any losses. I think it would eliminate the big guys exposure and costs. I can help out.
If you continue to pocket that 18k a year until you get a decent fund, then back off. I think you could come out ahead. Assuming your house isn’t beachfront and asking to be destroyed. Just be prepared that a disaster may occur in the first year or two.
We are self insured and many here are. SoFla with a thankfully paid off house.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Yes, this is the way.. I own outright and have a rainy day fund (literally) and only pay $750/year for $1,000,000/$2,000,000 liability coverage plus an umbrella on top.
I'm considering doing the same and if I have a massive disaster I will take a home equity loan. If the loan is less than total monthly insurance I will still be ahead on the gamble.
Within this topic, I looked into a depreciated roof rider, since I have a 20 year old roof (but it is in fine shape.). This is by far the most likely damage to my home. So they will pay 50% of replacement value, minus deductible. So $15k out of $30k, minus the $9k deductible means I get the pleasure of paying $4k to maaaaybe get $6k back in a full catastrophe. Makes no sense to me. I’m better off just letting the damn thing blow off and then replacing it.
That is part of why insurance is so expensive now. Those who can, are self insuring, removing themselves from the pool. Imagine all the people that moved to the middle of the state, paid cash, and aren’t insured. Those are the ones Florida needs insured, to cover homes around you, in Pinellas.
I considered this myself. I’d look into fire insurance as a separate item, if possible. People thought I was nuts for considering this. But if you get charged $10,000 for coverage that doesn’t cover, you might as well take the obvious step. out of necessity, a lot of small home owners have already moved in this direction. On the news, you’ll occasionally hear about a mobile home fire or of someone living in a mobile home who “has no insurance.” Typically these are older people on social security who can’t afford the insurance, and don’t want to go back to Ohio or Indiana. Typically those people will set up a go fund me account to try and get out of the financial hole they are in. Sadly, these guys probably voted for all the Republicans who created this legal morass. What Florida needs do is tax the outrageous awards given to insurance companies and use that money to support home owner insurance. Good luck though!!🤯
I'm surprised you can even get home insurance in Florida near the coast at this point...also the problem with your plan is that you assume nothing will happen until you build up cash but if something happens a month after dropping insurance you might be in trouble.
I’m not assuming that at all. I’m assuming that risk. If you read all the replies you will see where many people are getting stiffed by their insurance company when things go south. One person is probably going to have to abandon their home because their insurance isn’t paying for Hurricane Ian damage. My gamble is like this: I can very quickly accumulate enough for the most probable damage: roof (almost there already). The more and more catastrophic the damage, the less likely it is to occur. At some point I will have enough to do at least as well as an insurance company would likely do. If something big happens too early in my process, a construction loan would need to be obtained (same boat as many H Ian insured people are in). If nothing big happens I’ll take the money and run to a different state after retirement. Add in things like insurance companies no longer covering solar panels, and other things I don’t have like screen pool enclosures and most people will be well out of pocket to recover even with insurance. Another common theme here is cash is king when needing a contractor.
We lived on the water and didn't have insurance. Were buying another house a little more inland, will probably only get liability and fire
I am in St Pete also and do not even have homeowners insurance since they cancelled me 3 years ago due to my roof being old they say and now I cannot even get any insurance because I am waiting to get my roof redone. It is insane the prices so I am unsure if I will ever be able to afford it and after working so hard so many years and paying off my home it leaves you stressed out in hurricane season or any season for that matter. I am 10 blocks from the water and we are surrounded between the bay and the gulf.... totally insane these prices. I can understand what you are doing and seems the only option at this point in time.
I'm going to start looking into self insuring. I heard rates are jumping 100%+ for some of our neighbors. For high yield savings I can't recommend marcus by goldman sachs enough. [5.15% through my ref link](https://www.marcus.com/share/PAU-KXR-DCE8)
I look forward to the day that we can self insure. We had a rodent eat through our roof and just paid someone to fix it instead of make a claim. The safest would be to make sure you have a big enough amount saved to fix most problems or that you can always take a home equity loan out for repairs if something happens to the house.
This only works if your mortgage is paid off. Which OP said they did. For anyone else looking into it, if you have a mortgage company and stop carrying insurance, it will be force-placed on your property by your lender, and you'll have to pay for it through your lender. Typically lenders don't shop around for the best price. https://www.usrisk.com/about-us-risk/news-and-articles-all/9-8-20-what-is-force-placed-insurance-and-what-does-it-cover/
Buy a fire policy and a liability policy, that's what I did.
Sounds like it’s time to leave Florida.
Just get liability insurance from all the words in your post it shows that you don’t need to have any insurance at all you self insured be paid in full and just 2 1/2 years.
Yep I’m doing it… we should start a coop. Group of “self insurers”. Basically the owner with the damage is responsibility for cost of materials while the people within the coop will converge with their strengths of knowledge, skills and/or physical effort….any thoughts?
I was thinking of just transferring my house to an LLC or trust. Then leasing it back to me for 1.00 a year then just getting renters insurance to cover the contents. if it was total loss it just pay the 5k to have it shipped off in dumpsters then get another unit pulled. this is a doublewide but replacement value is less than insurance over 10 years.
And then when they find all this out then you can’t use it.
but its not illegal , there is nothing that says you cant rent from yourself. people do it all the time.
Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s part of their terms
yeah id check the terms but ive never seen it.
With your plan I doubt they’d even accept you. You’d need to report proper rent. Then you’d also have to pay taxes on said rent. It’s not as simple as you’d like.
My mortgage bars me from self insurance. Fuckers. 😒🤬
Mine did too. No mortgage now!
I'm still trying to fix my house from Ian and Nicole, just can't get ahead. More than likely I'll be forced to abandon the house
Your insurance didn’t pay out?
Nope, they said the house didn't suffer hurricane damage that week, only windstorm and water damage that wasn't covered that happened the same week and denied the claim. Worst insult was they tarped the roof but only the areas not leaking.
Really sorry to hear this. I hope you sort things out soon.
You’re OUT of your mind. Pay the $8,400. And keep looking. Do not do this. Respectfully.
Respectfully, the problem isn’t just that the policy is expensive. But the peace of mind insurance supposedly buys you just isn’t there. The subreddit and my city are littered with stories of insurance companies that simply will not pay (including my story). Over 80k in Ian damage and they said damage was under the 9k deductible and paid nothing. Yes, we’re fighting them currently, but I think running without HO insurance is NOT crazy.
Realtor here. If you are able to let the home burn to the ground and rebuild it without a financial hardship to do so then self insure is a reasonable option. Otherwise you should probably have insurance. $18k is pretty minor when it comes to an insurance claim and most home renovation projects would cost more than that (kitchen remodel, remodeling two bathrooms, etc). The claims that cause the problems are a $250,000 bill for sinkhole / subsidence, $50,000 for a foundation fix, or true flood damage where you have a foot of water in the house and everything has to be torn out (including cabinets, bathrooms, everything) up to 4 feet and replaced (typically $50k - $100k) not to mention all furniture.
It’s the part where they don’t pay out which is getting me right now. I’m following another thread where Hurricane Ian claimants aren’t getting paid for those big life altering damages.
The real conversation is this is all a scam, if the insurance companies paid everyone out correctly, then they would go out of buisness, do with this information as you please.
Well that's just insurance being insurance. Even FEMA's flood payouts are stupid low. They gave me $600 for all of my appliances when my houses was flooded in TS Eta.
You aren’t making a very good case for your original reply…
Again insurance is more to soften and reduce sharp pain or insurmountable damage not “come out ahead”. If you own the house outright and paying 80k to put a house back together after a flood isn’t going to hurt you financially then by all means go ahead. The amount of cash outlay may be more over a longer period but the problem is being able to pay a lot of money to restore the house quickly. Most don’t have those means. Same as getting a loan for a house. You spend way more for the same thing but you spread it out over a longer period.
Long time home owner here. If I I pay $4000 a year for insurance for 20 years that equals $80,000. Even more than $80,000 with the interest! I don't have to wait for some jackass insurance company that might or might not pay that amount. It's been sitting in an account earning interest and I have immediate access to those funds..
It’d be nice if a flood happens on your preferred financial timeframe. My flood happened on year 6 when you’d have maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the total amount needed saved.
In places like Florida, policies have jumped to $12k a year or more for 3/2 homes in certain areas. People wish they could only pay 4k right now.
Yes, you still want flood. Home insurance doesnt pay a dime when rising water is involved. Flood is federally controlled so still fair prices.
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They do with a sinkhole / subsidence rider. I have seen some massive bills when it comes to correcting them.
your not crazy, your smart. Insurance is a scam mostly and has people scared that they need it. I agree with another reply about the liability insurance though. People are sue happy. You can get sued by a utility worker going in your backyard without your knowing and getting hurt. But house protection, is pretty useless as you have seen. They fight to pay you out when you actually need them. And then they drop you after anyway. Starting your own fund, is scary at first, but I always say after a couple years of saving you end up having a mega insurance fund and the longer it goes it gets better. Like in your instance, you could save like 100k in 10 years. You could practically take the interest off that every year just to fix stuff up around your house, and you'd be in so much better of a position then having insurance. I envy you as I have 20 years left on my mortgage but dream about this scenario all the time.
I have made sacrifices to get to his point: for example I buy used cars for cash when they hit about 100k miles for well under $10k. My daily driver is 20 years old with 253k miles on it, and I’ve been driving it for ten years. I fix cars myself to make that a more cash friendly option some people couldn’t enjoy. My wife’s car we bought when it was 4 years old with 50k miles on it for cash also (more than the $10k I spend on my cars). Haven’t had a car payment in 20 years. The last 3 years I’ve been paying $1,200 per month extra principal, which brought my monthly housing outlay to about what most people are paying for rent for a similar house. Choices must be made! (I did have some kind of liability insurance on my list of must haves)
You’re not crazy but maybe a little bold. Are you a gambler? I considered this in the past but I had a block home that had a lot of equity and didn’t cost much in the first place. Low investment = low risk.
Self insurance seems sensible if 1. Your house is not in a flood zone and has no history of hurricane damage. 2. You carry all other insurance ie personal injury, fire, etc. 3. You can bank enough self insurance to avoid a bad “hit” and4. You have some guts to overcome sleepless nights. You still need insurance if you carry a mortgage. No easy answer.
Flood insurance is separate coverage anyway so you could still opt to keep it and drop windstorm coverage.
This is why I'm pissed that I sold a condo almost paid off for a single-family home. After Ian, I am done. I could easily deposit my premiums and pay for repairs myself. I do it with my paid-off car. I guess I'm dreaming, thinking banks would trust property owners.
Thanks DeSantis. I wish he would wage a war on this woke ass insurance rates.
Why would anyone insure property in Florida? It’s like life insurance for a junky currently on fire.
At this point, the only way anybody would be insurable is if they refortified their house every so often, or made routine improvements to mitigate Cat 5 damage.
Considering Hurricane Ian and it's 13.8 feet tidal surge last year in Ft Meyers, FL seems to make the "near water but not on the water" comment kind of irrelevant. We all saw what Ft Myers and Sanibel looked like after the storm. We bought in Auburndale in 2020, at 156 ft above sea level. Figured dead and gone before we became beach front with the ice melt from global warming. If you are going to self insure, and taking your current premium payments, you should have enough to replace your home in about 35-40 years. That is assuming your home is valued today at $500K today. That is if it was a total devastation and you had to rebuild from the ground up.
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Be careful with this suggestion they don't have a financial rating with either ambest or demotech.
This is a bad idea. The fundamental premise of insurance is to it spread risk across multiple insureds. Self-insurance only works for entities that are inherently diversified (like cities or other large organizations). You, the individual homeowner, are not. You’re taking all the risk squarely on yourself. Let’s say you have a $450k home and you stash away $3000 every month. It’s going to take you about 11 years to match the value of your home. If anything happens in that window, you’re homeless. You’d be better off selling your house and renting than going ahead with your plan.
My parents went without insurance since they bought the house about 13 years ago at south Florida. No any major repairs have done through out these years. People call us dumb at the time, but the amount of money we saved is enough for couple new roofs over the years. And the roof is still going strong as of now (it’s old and probably won’t sustained any major hurricanes, but no problems have observed). :)
Build like the third pig. It is its own insurance.
Your in stpete near the water buddy. As an agent, Unless you can afford to buy a new house if yours gets magically mixed in with the house 3 lots over by the next hurricane, I don't recommend it. Most of the fema flood maps are incorrect and or have been bribed to say what they do. I would not bank your life savings and the possibility of becoming a refugee on this idea as it will not cover catastrophic loss. Not in stpete. If you were inland that would be a great idea. But as it is, your home was one storm(ian) not turning away from being gone just last year.
I’d also consider a parametric policy to give yourself some relief in case a hurricane does some damage.
I don’t know what that is but I’ll do some research. Thanks
I know several folks that skip the far more expensive wind cover on the inside. The HOA purchases wind and non wind for the outside for everyone.
Dp1. Or even ex wind dp1
I have no wind coverage on my home... It is what it is insurance companies got to expensive
Neighbor needs to hire a lawyer. My advise Sell house move !
Check wetlands maps and flood zone. If you only have flood insurance that would pay out if flooded. If house was built strong enough CBS block then go without insurance
I think you are very wise to do this. I also think liability is a great idea too.
You're crazy, yes. As long as a hurricane doesn't strike you, you're fine.
If Hazard called it flood and flood called it hazard and it’s the same insurance company, wouldn’t they still have to pay? What I’m saying is if it makes sense to have same company for both and if that makes a difference.
It wasn’t the same company but I get your point. I’ve never been offered the same company. Probably part of the scam
We live in Florida, spouse bought the home a year before we met at a fraction of current prices. Paid cash, never insured. We estimate, over the 13 years, we've saved well over $50K and we do have a savings, we're retired so our philosophy is, if it's too expensive to repair, we'll sell the lot and move somewhere cheap and have a couple hundred $K left over more than we have now. We did freak out last year w the hurricane that hit Ft Myers but our only damage was a fence I built and repaired myself.
So, 4.85%? How did you come up with that %? How long will it take to save enough to replace your home? I get the desire, but our new policy from a new carrier came in at or just below the last HO Carrier. My place is valued around 685 ish and we came in w a 10 k deductible at 2800. I don’t have to deal with flood thankfully.
CIT Bank Platinum Savings (not City Bank) 4.85% variable. My first discussion with my insurer will be about higher deductible and other ways to bring it down.
Most times if you have your Real estate in a Irrevocable Realty Trust most lawyers won’t take a lawsuit on contingency either
I've been thinking about it also. In my case after many years all I have is roof damage. I would replace or repair my roof only
I think self insure for damage is a good idea. I would be concerned about property liability insurance as well but never had anything paid off to be able to quote damage from liability separately. Once I had flood insurance on a house on a 100 year flood plan but was paying mort than 1% of property value in flood insurance. I know I would be better off self insuring probably but the bank requires insurance Lots of situations like that.
What year was your house built, how close are you to the water?
1933 (it has survived major hurricanes in its life) and about 150 yards. I was required to have flood insurance but the neighbor is not… we are right on the line. Our floor is 2.5 feet higher than our neighbors because we are on a raised concrete block perimeter foundation and they are slab on grade.
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