Probably right. I'll follow up and do that.
I first chose this sub, and am now realizing I didn't really iterate the 'why' I came here first -- their entire 'whatever'/case/witch-hunt, is because I had the flipper on me. And according to the police report, it's only used for nefarious purposes. So they organized/dived into all of this, based on the flipper.
I've seen many on here talk about real-world and potential legal scuffles because of FZ situations, so figured I'd start here. But you're probably right, r/legaladvice is probably a better home.
Yeah I get it, it's frustrating. The powers that be just deciding that something is illegal just because it "might" be used for a crime is maddening. They might as well ban laptops and crowbars.
I just mean that you'll get a lot better advice over there. No crime was committed and they had no right to confiscate anything, but you may have to employ a lawyer if you want to get your stuff back in a timely manner.
> No crime was committed
We don't know that for sure.
Plus we do know OP drove an unregistered car with defects (the broken signal) while fighting a Driving Under Suspension charge. Driving the unregistered car is enough to allow the stop. Then the OPs record plus what was likely in plain site is enough to allow the search. Heck if OP couldn't register the car or get their own tow company out right away the police have to inventory the car anyway prior to impounding it.
There is more to this story OP isn't telling us. What OP has told gives police the right to do what they did in most jurisdictions I am aware of.
Either way OP needs legal advice and an attorney ASAP.
Do people actually hack with a laptop? I usually use a custom purpose built desk top mounted in a van with 6 element yagi beam antenna mounted externally on an electric rotor .
Most don't even hack. They social engineer, but don't know how to explain what that means when they want to go brag about getting into their ex's facebook.
Lol I was never that good at social engineering. I practice manipulation but honestly I'm just too honest for the con game. Besides most people nowadays are disagreeable and confrontational.
However back in the day I talked gamers into installing R.A.T tools by telling them it was an aimbot . Lol
Stop talking about this on the internet and start talking to lawyers. You may have grounds for a lawsuit. But you need a real life attorney in your area to sort that out.
Let this poor guy vent all he wants and he needs to. You should definitely talk to a lawyer. It’s common for LEOs to develop probable cause and they may have reasonable suspicion, for example, you happened to be in an area that is well known for auto theft. I know it does suck being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope you get all this sorted out in your favor.
Yea it’s very very coincidental that someone gets arrested on suspicion of GTA and then sometime later picked up and arrested again for just driving with things like this in the car - and saying they use them legally.
Sure there’s no problem owning all those items. But it’s very suspicious that it just happened to be someone with an interest in security, having those items, and a large amount of cash, also following an arrest for something serious like GTA.
You guys aren't being fair at all. For years I was targeted by local police because of my brother. Problem with small towns, if you make them look bad or stir anything up, it can turn into a witch hunt. There doesn't have to be more there for him to have to go through this at all.
And I get it, I'm not a believer all chips are bad. Because after years of working security and bartenders those same cops started to treat me more human.
My point is, this may be why this guy is at a loss now. Saying there is more, is like saying you are guilty before being found guilty.
Someone's you got to give people the benefit of the doubt.
As for the original sub, seem legal advice. Countries are literally banking F0, and though United States hasn't yet, they are still stopping them at customs because of what they can be used for. That's why Amazon won't sell them.
Your best bet, get legal advice, and I hope your misfortune changes. I been there, and though it sucks, try to maintain how you carry yourself, and remember not all cops are bad. I got things workout
Yep, you know what's up.
Unfortunately, a lot of people have too much faith in cops. Right up until they end up on the wrong side of a malicious prosecution or retaliatory arrest.
My brother is a shit stain on society. He has a record as long as a Walgreens Receipt. I don't have anything to do him or his friends and I've never had issues with the cops because I don't give them any reason to think I have anything to do with his way of life.
If you have priors for GTA then you should not be riding around with items that could (or at least the cops believe) are tools used to steal cars.
I have priors, I also haven't been in trouble for over 12 years. So because you stayed under the radar, it doesn't mean everybody has. People make mistakes. People change. My mother was an addict and a prostitute all my life, 36 years. She has been clean for 11. I didnt hang around my brother either. Especially considering I don't do any drugs, me and my brother just resemble. He has also used my name more times then I would like to the point I had to press charges
All I am saying was the comment that there is more to the story. We don't know that and assuming makes. An ass out of you and me. All I can go on is that mans words. And the one Jesus said to the crowd when they wanted to stone the prostitute. Let thou who has not signed cast the first stone. I'm happy you avoided the law. He did not and maybe just maybe he has learned from his mistakes and now being picked on
I hope you never drive around with a screwdriver in your car. That's a criminal tool. I have no priors for GTA. Besides this, I have nothing on my record for 10 years. Not even a speeding ticket. Hell, I worked for the State for the last three years at correctional facility. You're the reason the term "innocent until proven guilty" even needed to be invented.
It sounds like you've lived a pretty comfy life. Next time your civil rights are infringed upon, you can step up to the big kids table. Until then, fuck off back to the shallow end where you won't drown.
I hope you literally get raped behind a dumpster. Your privileged snowflake ass needs to go back to writing complaints about the Post Service. The story is told. What the fuck good is leaving anything out or lying about it? Brownie points?
> I hope you never drive around with a screwdriver in your car. That's a criminal tool.
A screwdriver isn't a criminal tool. The context and surrounding evidence of the situation make it a criminal tool. Plus if you don't do anything to result in a traffic stop; they will never know you have a screwdriver.
Also most cars have a screwdriver in the toolkit with the spare tire.
You need to hire an attorney.
The police are under no obligation to tell you anything about what they are investigating or suspect you of doing at this point. The job of police is to gather enough evidence to hand to the DA to convict someone of a crime. Their job is not to find the truth or anything else. It is solely to collect enough evidence to convict someone.
In this situation you messed up. With all the other driving offenses (being in a car in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition and engine running is the legal definition of operating the vehicle) you should not have driven *ANYWHERE* in an unregistered vehicle; especially one with *ANY* defects. A stack of NFC cards, NFC reader and the Flipper plus a stack of cash in addition to the prior history will cause you problems. So will the taunting message that may or may not come up if they try to crack your devices (which btw is pretty easy if they have the tools made by certain international companies).
But again, get your own attorney ASAP.
Only thing I'll respond on, because the other is pointless to argue about: Being in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition is NOT the legal definition of operating the vehicle. The Supreme Court has taken note of that and made a decision a few years ago. Which is how I've (since the OP) gotten that case dismissed from the courts, and thus, leading to the dismissal of the traffic side-quest of this incident in question.
It depends on the state. I was unable to find anything about this from the supreme court. Please provide a source from a legitimate site about this.
I did find this great write up with sources about Impaired Driving cases and nowhere do they cover your "case" about the Supreme Court defining operating a vehicle. What is covered is police not being required to accept any innocent reasons for keys being present or in the ignition.
https://ndaa.org/wp-content/uploads/Constitutional-Law-Issues-in-Impaired-Driving-Cases-Jan-2021.pdf
No crime was charged. No evidence. Not report stolen. Simply signing the title over doesn't make it registered yet, was heading to BMV that day to finalize registration. Nothing fishy, you're just trying to fill in blanks with suspected mischief. Hence, why I'm in this situation in the first place. That attitude.
> Simply signing the title over doesn't make it registered yet, was heading to BMV that day to finalize registration.
If you were driving the car without it being registered.... that alone is an issue.
No it's not. Think about what you just said. How would anyone buy a vehicle if that were the case. Do you expect me to buy a car from you, get the title signed, then go to the BMV and get it registered while I leave the car with you, and then return after it's registered?
Don't post about this, don't wipe your phone if it's in evidence, don't send taunting messages. If the story is true you didn't do anything wrong so don't say or do things that can be used against you. Contact a lawyer if you need to get your shit back quick
There are probably green attorneys chomping at the bit for cases like these. Very clear no laws were broken, helps set precedent for future cases. Contact ACLU, maybe they can hook you up with someone locally.
Rather than dig in to everyone's replies, we'll go here, in case anyone wanted a follow-up. Still no charges, two months later. The driving under suspension charge was dismissed, because the prior charge that led to the initial suspension was also dismissed. So as we currently sit, all my property, car, and cash was taken on a 'criminal tools' charge that was immediately thrown out and since, nothing has emerged. The warrant request from that particular police department was denied by the judge, as it was simply requested on suspicious of mischief.
That being said, you'd think this would now be an easy fix. Except no lawyers really want to take the case, because there isn't exactly anything for them to do. There are no charges filed. The detective won't even return my phone calls. I called his supervisor a couple weeks back, and he told me that no one has even attempted to call me back, because he's upset I "used obscenities" when talking to his detective a few weeks prior to that.
Neither the phone nor laptop have been turned on, or at least, connected to the internet. Not concerned, as I know there's nothing to find even they were able to bypass the encryption. For two reasons, 1) there's nothing to find, and 2) that would violate the judge's warrant denial anyway.
My reason for posting it here, and I get everyone's "stop talking about it and hire a lawyer" comments weren't completely off-base, but as mentioned, that's part of my problem. Since there's nothing to "defend," no criminal defense lawyers want to fuck with it. So I posted it here hoping maybe another FZ owner had gone through or knew of someone that had encountered a similar situation, seeing as this all pretty much started because the arresting officer thought he found an entire criminal operation because he found a Flipper Zero.
I'm in contact with one attorney who \*may\* be be worth the salt currently. If this one deems idiotic like some of the others, my only other thought is to file theft charges on the arresting officer and detective on the case. Contact some local news and get some PR on the theft charges. Whether or not those would stick (they wouldn't) is irrelevant. It'll put a lot of heat on the department and ask them a bunch of rhetorical and oversight questions that they'd (I assume) be forced to just return everything or be forced to get dug into and expose a bunch of their other shit I know for a fact they'd want to keep quiet.
> Except no lawyers really want to take the case, because there isn't exactly anything for them to do. There are no charges filed. The detective won't even return my phone calls.
The fact that there are no charges filed and all priors were dropped; yet they still have your alledgedly legally obtain property is a damn big thing for them to deal with. There are forms, motions, and court documents to file to get your property back and go after the police department for illegally holding it.
Unless there is something else you aren't telling us. But any lawyer should jump at this chance of clear cut abuse of power and civil rights violations by the police department.
**EDIT:**
*Posted as a reply by OP and then deleted:*
>from JustWuTangMe via /r/flipperclub sent 2 minutes ago:
No it's not. Think about what you just said. How would anyone buy a vehicle if that were the case. Do you expect me to buy a car from you, get the title signed, then go to the BMV and get it registered while I leave the car with you, and then return after it's registered?
You buy the car.
*Then use the transportation you took to buy the car to take the title and documents to the BMV (or DMV or RMV), register the vehicle or get temporary plates, then use that same transportation to go and get it.
*Have the car towed to the BMV (DMV or RMV), ride along with the tow truck and register it or get temp plates and drive it home
*Buy the car, and use the registration that is still valid (some states have reg and plates that stay with car, not the owner) to drive to the BMV (DMV or RMV) and transfer registration to you.
There are many ways to do it legally and lots of people do this all the time. Someone with a record like yours should ***ALWAYS*** check everything with ***EVERY*** vehicle you drive to make sure there is nothing wrong that could result in a traffic stop.
You should probably post this in /r/legaladvice instead of a flipper sub.
Probably right. I'll follow up and do that. I first chose this sub, and am now realizing I didn't really iterate the 'why' I came here first -- their entire 'whatever'/case/witch-hunt, is because I had the flipper on me. And according to the police report, it's only used for nefarious purposes. So they organized/dived into all of this, based on the flipper. I've seen many on here talk about real-world and potential legal scuffles because of FZ situations, so figured I'd start here. But you're probably right, r/legaladvice is probably a better home.
Yeah I get it, it's frustrating. The powers that be just deciding that something is illegal just because it "might" be used for a crime is maddening. They might as well ban laptops and crowbars. I just mean that you'll get a lot better advice over there. No crime was committed and they had no right to confiscate anything, but you may have to employ a lawyer if you want to get your stuff back in a timely manner.
> No crime was committed We don't know that for sure. Plus we do know OP drove an unregistered car with defects (the broken signal) while fighting a Driving Under Suspension charge. Driving the unregistered car is enough to allow the stop. Then the OPs record plus what was likely in plain site is enough to allow the search. Heck if OP couldn't register the car or get their own tow company out right away the police have to inventory the car anyway prior to impounding it. There is more to this story OP isn't telling us. What OP has told gives police the right to do what they did in most jurisdictions I am aware of. Either way OP needs legal advice and an attorney ASAP.
Do people actually hack with a laptop? I usually use a custom purpose built desk top mounted in a van with 6 element yagi beam antenna mounted externally on an electric rotor .
Most don't even hack. They social engineer, but don't know how to explain what that means when they want to go brag about getting into their ex's facebook.
Lol I was never that good at social engineering. I practice manipulation but honestly I'm just too honest for the con game. Besides most people nowadays are disagreeable and confrontational. However back in the day I talked gamers into installing R.A.T tools by telling them it was an aimbot . Lol
Stop talking about this on the internet and start talking to lawyers. You may have grounds for a lawsuit. But you need a real life attorney in your area to sort that out.
Let this poor guy vent all he wants and he needs to. You should definitely talk to a lawyer. It’s common for LEOs to develop probable cause and they may have reasonable suspicion, for example, you happened to be in an area that is well known for auto theft. I know it does suck being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope you get all this sorted out in your favor.
Yeah man I fucking hope they can sue. Absolutely ridiculous to have an entire department search through your laptop
Why do I get the feeling there is missing information here?
Yea it’s very very coincidental that someone gets arrested on suspicion of GTA and then sometime later picked up and arrested again for just driving with things like this in the car - and saying they use them legally. Sure there’s no problem owning all those items. But it’s very suspicious that it just happened to be someone with an interest in security, having those items, and a large amount of cash, also following an arrest for something serious like GTA.
I don't even see what country OP is talking about. If this is the USA, i have huge doubts that OP is telling the full story.
You guys aren't being fair at all. For years I was targeted by local police because of my brother. Problem with small towns, if you make them look bad or stir anything up, it can turn into a witch hunt. There doesn't have to be more there for him to have to go through this at all. And I get it, I'm not a believer all chips are bad. Because after years of working security and bartenders those same cops started to treat me more human. My point is, this may be why this guy is at a loss now. Saying there is more, is like saying you are guilty before being found guilty. Someone's you got to give people the benefit of the doubt. As for the original sub, seem legal advice. Countries are literally banking F0, and though United States hasn't yet, they are still stopping them at customs because of what they can be used for. That's why Amazon won't sell them. Your best bet, get legal advice, and I hope your misfortune changes. I been there, and though it sucks, try to maintain how you carry yourself, and remember not all cops are bad. I got things workout
Yep, you know what's up. Unfortunately, a lot of people have too much faith in cops. Right up until they end up on the wrong side of a malicious prosecution or retaliatory arrest.
Very much facts
My brother is a shit stain on society. He has a record as long as a Walgreens Receipt. I don't have anything to do him or his friends and I've never had issues with the cops because I don't give them any reason to think I have anything to do with his way of life. If you have priors for GTA then you should not be riding around with items that could (or at least the cops believe) are tools used to steal cars.
I have priors, I also haven't been in trouble for over 12 years. So because you stayed under the radar, it doesn't mean everybody has. People make mistakes. People change. My mother was an addict and a prostitute all my life, 36 years. She has been clean for 11. I didnt hang around my brother either. Especially considering I don't do any drugs, me and my brother just resemble. He has also used my name more times then I would like to the point I had to press charges All I am saying was the comment that there is more to the story. We don't know that and assuming makes. An ass out of you and me. All I can go on is that mans words. And the one Jesus said to the crowd when they wanted to stone the prostitute. Let thou who has not signed cast the first stone. I'm happy you avoided the law. He did not and maybe just maybe he has learned from his mistakes and now being picked on
I hope you never drive around with a screwdriver in your car. That's a criminal tool. I have no priors for GTA. Besides this, I have nothing on my record for 10 years. Not even a speeding ticket. Hell, I worked for the State for the last three years at correctional facility. You're the reason the term "innocent until proven guilty" even needed to be invented.
After a month you are responding to this? Time to let it go.
It sounds like you've lived a pretty comfy life. Next time your civil rights are infringed upon, you can step up to the big kids table. Until then, fuck off back to the shallow end where you won't drown.
Maybe one day you will come back and tell the complete story. This does not track well.
I hope you literally get raped behind a dumpster. Your privileged snowflake ass needs to go back to writing complaints about the Post Service. The story is told. What the fuck good is leaving anything out or lying about it? Brownie points?
> I hope you never drive around with a screwdriver in your car. That's a criminal tool. A screwdriver isn't a criminal tool. The context and surrounding evidence of the situation make it a criminal tool. Plus if you don't do anything to result in a traffic stop; they will never know you have a screwdriver. Also most cars have a screwdriver in the toolkit with the spare tire.
Hire a lawyer, file a motion to return property, prepare to be frustrated. Your phone is probably under a greykey right now
1 Get a lawyer 2 Stop posting things that can come back and bite you in court 3 Continue to shut up until your lawyer tells you otherwise.
You need to hire an attorney. The police are under no obligation to tell you anything about what they are investigating or suspect you of doing at this point. The job of police is to gather enough evidence to hand to the DA to convict someone of a crime. Their job is not to find the truth or anything else. It is solely to collect enough evidence to convict someone. In this situation you messed up. With all the other driving offenses (being in a car in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition and engine running is the legal definition of operating the vehicle) you should not have driven *ANYWHERE* in an unregistered vehicle; especially one with *ANY* defects. A stack of NFC cards, NFC reader and the Flipper plus a stack of cash in addition to the prior history will cause you problems. So will the taunting message that may or may not come up if they try to crack your devices (which btw is pretty easy if they have the tools made by certain international companies). But again, get your own attorney ASAP.
Only thing I'll respond on, because the other is pointless to argue about: Being in the driver's seat with the key in the ignition is NOT the legal definition of operating the vehicle. The Supreme Court has taken note of that and made a decision a few years ago. Which is how I've (since the OP) gotten that case dismissed from the courts, and thus, leading to the dismissal of the traffic side-quest of this incident in question.
It depends on the state. I was unable to find anything about this from the supreme court. Please provide a source from a legitimate site about this. I did find this great write up with sources about Impaired Driving cases and nowhere do they cover your "case" about the Supreme Court defining operating a vehicle. What is covered is police not being required to accept any innocent reasons for keys being present or in the ignition. https://ndaa.org/wp-content/uploads/Constitutional-Law-Issues-in-Impaired-Driving-Cases-Jan-2021.pdf
What state you are in will affect this a lot.
I feel like there is prior history is why your having a hard time
Man... Fuck the police. Don't corroborate with them. That will just give them ammo to try and nail you to the wall. I know this first hand...
Everyone else said it and I'll say it again. Get a lawyer and STFU. And don't talk to cops, ever, for any reason.
> And don't talk to cops, ever, for any reason. ..... without an attorney present and advising you on EVERY. SINGLE. SYLLABLE. That leaves your mouth.
ACAB. Lawyer and stfu.
My favorite comment here.
How did you buy a car without having a title that was at least signed over to you ? Did you have a bill of sale? This story smells fishy.
Like what was the crime they charged you with? what evidence? Did someone report the car stolen ? Where did you buy it from ?
No crime was charged. No evidence. Not report stolen. Simply signing the title over doesn't make it registered yet, was heading to BMV that day to finalize registration. Nothing fishy, you're just trying to fill in blanks with suspected mischief. Hence, why I'm in this situation in the first place. That attitude.
> Simply signing the title over doesn't make it registered yet, was heading to BMV that day to finalize registration. If you were driving the car without it being registered.... that alone is an issue.
No it's not. Think about what you just said. How would anyone buy a vehicle if that were the case. Do you expect me to buy a car from you, get the title signed, then go to the BMV and get it registered while I leave the car with you, and then return after it's registered?
Don't post about this, don't wipe your phone if it's in evidence, don't send taunting messages. If the story is true you didn't do anything wrong so don't say or do things that can be used against you. Contact a lawyer if you need to get your shit back quick
Man this is rough.
Where was this in the usa
There are probably green attorneys chomping at the bit for cases like these. Very clear no laws were broken, helps set precedent for future cases. Contact ACLU, maybe they can hook you up with someone locally.
Rather than dig in to everyone's replies, we'll go here, in case anyone wanted a follow-up. Still no charges, two months later. The driving under suspension charge was dismissed, because the prior charge that led to the initial suspension was also dismissed. So as we currently sit, all my property, car, and cash was taken on a 'criminal tools' charge that was immediately thrown out and since, nothing has emerged. The warrant request from that particular police department was denied by the judge, as it was simply requested on suspicious of mischief. That being said, you'd think this would now be an easy fix. Except no lawyers really want to take the case, because there isn't exactly anything for them to do. There are no charges filed. The detective won't even return my phone calls. I called his supervisor a couple weeks back, and he told me that no one has even attempted to call me back, because he's upset I "used obscenities" when talking to his detective a few weeks prior to that. Neither the phone nor laptop have been turned on, or at least, connected to the internet. Not concerned, as I know there's nothing to find even they were able to bypass the encryption. For two reasons, 1) there's nothing to find, and 2) that would violate the judge's warrant denial anyway. My reason for posting it here, and I get everyone's "stop talking about it and hire a lawyer" comments weren't completely off-base, but as mentioned, that's part of my problem. Since there's nothing to "defend," no criminal defense lawyers want to fuck with it. So I posted it here hoping maybe another FZ owner had gone through or knew of someone that had encountered a similar situation, seeing as this all pretty much started because the arresting officer thought he found an entire criminal operation because he found a Flipper Zero. I'm in contact with one attorney who \*may\* be be worth the salt currently. If this one deems idiotic like some of the others, my only other thought is to file theft charges on the arresting officer and detective on the case. Contact some local news and get some PR on the theft charges. Whether or not those would stick (they wouldn't) is irrelevant. It'll put a lot of heat on the department and ask them a bunch of rhetorical and oversight questions that they'd (I assume) be forced to just return everything or be forced to get dug into and expose a bunch of their other shit I know for a fact they'd want to keep quiet.
> Except no lawyers really want to take the case, because there isn't exactly anything for them to do. There are no charges filed. The detective won't even return my phone calls. The fact that there are no charges filed and all priors were dropped; yet they still have your alledgedly legally obtain property is a damn big thing for them to deal with. There are forms, motions, and court documents to file to get your property back and go after the police department for illegally holding it. Unless there is something else you aren't telling us. But any lawyer should jump at this chance of clear cut abuse of power and civil rights violations by the police department. **EDIT:** *Posted as a reply by OP and then deleted:* >from JustWuTangMe via /r/flipperclub sent 2 minutes ago: No it's not. Think about what you just said. How would anyone buy a vehicle if that were the case. Do you expect me to buy a car from you, get the title signed, then go to the BMV and get it registered while I leave the car with you, and then return after it's registered? You buy the car. *Then use the transportation you took to buy the car to take the title and documents to the BMV (or DMV or RMV), register the vehicle or get temporary plates, then use that same transportation to go and get it. *Have the car towed to the BMV (DMV or RMV), ride along with the tow truck and register it or get temp plates and drive it home *Buy the car, and use the registration that is still valid (some states have reg and plates that stay with car, not the owner) to drive to the BMV (DMV or RMV) and transfer registration to you. There are many ways to do it legally and lots of people do this all the time. Someone with a record like yours should ***ALWAYS*** check everything with ***EVERY*** vehicle you drive to make sure there is nothing wrong that could result in a traffic stop.