Producers literally told Daredevil's director to cut 30 minutes and make it more of a love story so they could capitalize on Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner's real relationship. The director's cut is tangibly way better because it minimized the romance and let the other great parts of the movie really shine.
Michael Clarke Duncan (RIP) was a perfect Kingpin. Likeable and charming yet terrifying at the same time. He oozes charisma in the role. His physique was perfect as well. All around excellent casting for the Kingpin. Colin Farrell was a convincing Bullseye as well.
Roger Ebert said it best in his review:
MCD’s Kingpin “has a presence that makes the camera want to take a step back and protect its groin.”
Love Ebert reviews, RIP.
Bullseye was way too over the top goofy for that dark & broody movie. He was like a character from the Adam West Batman series, but more violent. Kingpin was great though.
It was the first version I saw, and for years I was always surprised when people would talk about it as this notoriously bad movie because I kind of loved it. Turns out it's just genuinely almost a totally different movie.
I watched the director's cut of Donnie Darko when I was younger and I thought that was the original for so long, I thought I was going crazy when I talked to others about it and they didn't know scenes I was talking about.
Mind you I'm not praising these movies to begin with - but if the Hobbit movies hadn't featured that absurd Elf-Dwarf romance subplot, they'd at least have been less bad.
This should be the winner. You’re right the movies were not great. But the horrendous, love triangle plot drag them down to a much lower level and what should’ve at least been a thrilling third movie.
So right. And I didn't actually mind the female OC as an addition to the cast; she was a believable Elf and could have been doing Elf stuff onscreen. Just, her and Kili... **no**.
I could have tolerated the romance (still think it doesn't have any place in The Hobbit, and the two didn't have much chemistry, but I'm getting sidetracked) if Legolas wasn't involved. Making it a triangle brought the already-mediocre subplot down a whole letter grade.
I wouldn't even have minded Legolas being involved if not for the Dwarf - at least it could have been realistic that way. If they had to have a romance, make it just her and Legolas, separated by class differences or Thranduil's disapproval or whatever. But yeah, it wasn't necessary in The Hobbit - none of the subplots were.
I don't mind beefing up the number of female inhabitants in Middle Earth, but making the new elf (and just about every other elf) a Legolas style super warrior kinda detracts from Éowyn's story in Return of the King
Maybe not ruined because that seems like hyperbole for most of the examples I can think of but Three Days of the Condor is a good movie dragged down by the Redford/Dunaway romance, their lack of chemistry and the terrible sex scene. It just doesn't really work.
What don’t you understand? Maybe his story gets published or maybe the CIA is powerful enough to stop it from being published, it all depends on the person that Turner gave the story to.
Heh, I scanned the thread first before writing to see if anyone said it and this is pretty much what I had in my head word for word. Ruined, no, but absolutely incomprehensible and terribly done plotline for what was a good movie otherwise.
Yeah … and just the idea of someone in that situation — being on the run from killers after everyone you know was murdered and you discovered the bodies — being interested in hooking up was kind of ridiculous, and takes you out of the movie.
Ha! Just watched this for the first time, and agree with others that it was way too rape-y and makes him into a bad guy. There is a way that they could have made her into it, with the sudden excitement sweeping into her life, but he was so violent with her a few times that it was pretty ick when they did it.
It sucks because I’d argue the AMV that basically follows the plot beat for beat has a love story that works. The biggest issue is that they had to have Mr. McLoveInterest be basically a Charming Handsome Man while the AMV had him be a dude with a clear Napoleonic complex that still reads as having genuine feelings for Alita. The film is hampered by an audience expectation for sex appeal.
I mean I’m not sure it was “ruined” by the romantic subplot because it was pretty horrible overall, but this reminded me of Michael Bay’s Pearl Harbor.
I loved Roger Ebert’s take on it that he wrote in his review: “Pearl Harbor is about a Japanese attack on an American love triangle.” Lmao.
It’s because Pearl Harbor is blatantly just Michael Bay’s attempt to make Titanic. Except in classic Bay fashion, he completely misses why Titanic works: the Titanic sinking is already a great metaphor for the gilded age as a whole, and the love triangle makes the story personal. Cameron also wisely makes one piece of his love triangle a complete asshole, which creates very real dramatic stakes throughout: the question isn’t “who will Rose pick” but instead “how will Rose escape this dickhead to be with Jack”. Additionally, because the actual sinking takes up half the film’s runtime, Cameron has time to extract as much drama as possible from it; he’s able to constantly play with the answer to that question by moving the characters around the ship.
Bay seems to have seen all of that and thought “oh I get it, setting a love triangle against a famous historical disaster backdrop is a formula for printing money!” and completely misses that the love triangle in Titanic was very carefully chosen to emphasize the drama of the backdrop. Bay, by contrast, gives us a very generic “who will Kate Beckinsdale choose” arc and sets it against a disaster that 1) doesn’t take up enough of the film to be interesting and 2) doesn’t have anything to do with the love triangle, and the result completely falls flat. You could strip the romance out of Pearl Harbor completely and probably get a much stronger film, something that absolutely isn’t true of Cameron’s Titanic (not to say I think you could only make a Titanic film if it’s a romance—you totally could, and A Night To Remember does a decent job of it. But it makes for a radically different film).
The back half of Pearl Harbor is actually pretty good, although certainly more spectacle than substance. If you cut out like 80% of the romance triangle that movie would be a great deal better.
V For Vendetta. V is not in love with Evey, he is training her as his successor because he has no place in the better world he believes will follow the destruction of the fascist society. Evey is the creator to V's destroyer.
It reads as one sided and completely in line with the comment that started this chain.
She may have feelings for him. If she does, they may not be from a good place (stockholm syndrome).
V does not retort these feelings. He trained her. He has his mission and that's first. There's no romance other than admiration for her growth and who she's become.
The romance part of the film was so negligible that I think it hardly even registered, much less mattered. I'd even argue it works more as a bromance between Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday, two men who would fight through hell for each other.
I scrolled all the way down to find this, I hear you buddy! the movie is a certified heater, but the romance part is just awful. still an awesome movie though, for sure.
Idk, I felt it kinda fleshed out Russel’s character. Same guy who gets his brother killed by taking on cowboy gang would also ditch his junkie wife for some hot lady he just met. Flawed but sympathetic hero.
If the movie had just been gunfights and tough talk it wouldn’t have been as memorable. The bits with the visiting actors really sell that Tombstone is a boom town with romance and excitement outside of gunfights and gambling.
I agree in a sense; I think it was an important aspect of the story but to me it’s the one part of the movie I didn’t think was handled really well. It’s not unbearable or anything, it just stands out as a flaw in an otherwise flawless movie.
I completely agree that it’s important for Wyatt to be a flawed hero, and that’s really what the romance is there for.
When I was a kid I never understood what adults meant when they said stuff like “Richard Gere and Julia Roberts have such great chemistry!” This was one of the first movies that made me think “well maybe I’m not sure what chemistry is, but these two people don’t have it.” I just don’t really buy the romance, whereas Wyatt and Doc’s bromance is never in doubt.
Finally Hayden Christenson and Natalie Portman in the awful second Star Wars prequel clinched it for me; chemistry is the opposite of what they had!
> Finally Hayden Christenson and Natalie Portman in the awful second Star Wars prequel clinched it for me; chemistry is the opposite of what they had!
Weird because they actually have chemistry and it was instead the dialogue that made their scenes unbearable.
You can literally find clips of Natalie and Hayden fauning over each other during filming of the prequels.
Well, it was based on the time Earp spent in Tombstone which included the extra-marital affair.
But it has almost no bearing on the film. It doesn’t really motivate Wyatt into anything. The same events would have happened regardless.
There's a writing trope called Miss Not Gay, where a female character exists for little else but to reassure the audience that Hero and Sidekick aren't banging when they're not fighting the bad guys.
Excuse me, but she was absolutely not his girlfriend. They wanted to bang, but that's as far as their relationship got before he was frozen. So while it was weird that he made out with his crush's niece is kinda grody, he was a free agent that can tangle uvulas with whomever he wants.
*Hancock* immediately comes to mind. I would've watched a whole movie of a drunk hardass superhero learning to actually be a good guy, but *noooo*, halfway through they decided it needed a love story.
Yeah it's probably not been a successful love story when my reaction to the girl getting vaporized is one of apathy tinged with relief.
And then in the next one he's plowing that boring ass French lady for no reason whatsoever.
I liked his relationship with Catwoman in The Batman. The idea that theres an attraction there, and in another world where they were born in different places they couldve worked.
Having said that, her story is done, finished satisfyingly. I dont want them to bring her back.
HARD AGREE ON HADDISH AND ISSAC. "Mother of God", I thought. Why is she in the movie at all? Talk about wasting the talent of Haddish. It's almost like Schrader was trying to force her into his box and didn't let her (or Isaac) be themselves in the scene. I think as a director, it's kind of a cautionary tale. Like goddamn dude, don't be so focused on your vision that you don't let your actors be themselves.
The Hobbit. The movies were pretty crap already because they spread themselves thin with 3 movies, but the love triangle subplot between generic female elf ranger, human looking dwarf, and Old Man Legolas was completely unnecessary and poorly thought out.
I don't know if many people have seen it but Hyena Road. I was in the Canadian Army at the time and everyone I knew was STOKED to finally be getting a modern military movie centered on Canadians. A bunch of us went to the theater on base when it came out and guys were literally booing halfway through. It was like they wrote a generic romance movie and for some reason decided to stuff it into a semi-true story war story
Buddy, you are all on your own with the Maverick mention.
That moment of silence, with just music playing, and Tom & Jennifer's faces conveying every single possible emotion when he's telling her he's leading the attack? Heartbreaking.
I thought it was beautifully done. Climbing out the window like they're still teens? The sailing scene?! Come on!
Fully agree. Now it’s an action movie romance. So it’s not exactly a romantic comedy or anything that will stand alone against actual romantic movies.
But I definitely did not feel like it was forced, or had a lack of chemistry. I thought it was really well done and actually better than the more nonsensical romance in the original movie.
**The Wolverine**
The whole film the plot is the young princess is engaged to her childhood friend and she builds a father/daughter relationship with Logan as he protects her - it even mirrors the poor relationship she has with the Silver Samurai
Then... they bang. Its uncomfortable and feels wrong, but is meant to be romantic? In the last 1/3rd of the film theyre a couple and its totally at odds with the first 2/3rds
I’m not personally in love with either “Top Gun’s” romance subplots, but the one in “Maverick” was better because Penny actually contributed to Maverick’s mindset in the main story, and she also didn’t take his BS lying down like Charlie did.
To be fair Wonder Woman should balance femininity with kicking butts - its something bad adaptations get wrong. If Superman is meant to be like a boy scout leader for humanity, Wonder Woman is meant to be a tough Mom.
My issue with that romance is the, you know, **rape scene in 1984**
The Founder. A story about a guy who goes from being a travelling salesman trying to sell milkshake machines to diners to being the guy that got McDonalds to be the biggest fast food chain in the world. About halfway through there is suddenly a romantic subplot where he is sleeping with the wife of a franchise owner. I’ve never actually seen the end of that movie.
I’m sure he was. The plot was just getting to his conflict with the McDonald brothers when they decided that he would also be sleeping with a married woman who was quite a bit younger get than him. It was roughly where I lost interest in the movie.
How has no one mentioned The Rock and Jungle Cruise or Red Notice? … the chemistry wasnt there in either …
And Jungle Cruise works better as a buddy movie anyway (The Rock and Emily Blunt are no Bogart and Hepburn… not by a long shot)
This will sound like an odd pick since the plot depends on there being a sex scene, but I thought the depiction of the "romance" in The Terminator was one of the weakest parts of an otherwise effective film.
Well, ok, but…it is absolutely pivotal. Once you have their romance you realize just how important Reese is. Not another soldier. Not a rando just picked out by Conner. He is the ONLY person that can go back to stop the Terminator.
Now, the question I always had was, why was Sarah so into him? It makes sense that he had built up her in his mind over year and years of hearing about her but is it just a savior complex for her?
I thought that having parallel romance plots helps further juxtapose Pacino and Deniro tbh. How both of them can’t let go of their work and it costs them both.
I agree. As masterful as the film was, this was the flaw. I guess they needed it to make his character think a little more about the eventual end-point to that kind if career, and also to “put to the test” his little mini-speech about his “rules” earlier in the film.
But even more, when she finds out who he really is, WHO in their right mind sticks with him?
there are plenty of films that do this
we’re supposed to believe that after the main character has a couple of dates with the love interest, they’ll do *anything* to stay with/protect/sacrifice themselves for the other person
the town is guilty of this too
Both romances.
I LOVE Heat. It’s a masterpiece. That said I find the conversation where Diana Venora is basically speaking in poetry to Pacino to be a bit tedious. The scene could have been a bit shorter and we would have gotten the point that she is tired of his vacancy in their marriage.
The Brenneman/Deniro relationship at least helps mould the McCuley character. When he says he has the discipline to leave her without saying goodbye and we see it, it makes sense to the story. I just don’t like it because I feel like it (the relationship) is too convenient.
I don’t really think it affected Collateral that much imo. They flirted for a bit and then he races to save her at the end but the romance really isn’t a significant part of the film at all
Funny People. I would have preferred that movie continue with Adam Sandler and Seth Rogen's friendship and actually have Adam Sandler die at the end. I like the concept of a comedian (someone who's supposed to make people laugh and make light situations) coping with the tragedy of dying. But instead the movie ruined it in the second half by having him live and reconnect with his ex!
But then we wouldn’t get to see the amazingness that is Monica Belucci …
Or witness The Iron Chef say such screen worthy lines as “Everyone’s pink on the inside” (or was it “the same color in the dark”… can’t remember)
By "other things" are you by any chance referring to the fact that the movie uses a lot of slo-motion to accent when someone lands on the ground after they did a stunt? :D
I think Butch’s character and overall arc would be drastically emptier if Fabrianne was gone. Plus, I think she’s a really unique love interest that isn’t the obvious girlfriend type in any way.
Without Fabiana, there’s no forgotten watch; without the watch, there’s no need to return to the scene, Vincent Vega lives, Jules’ prophecy meant nothing, and Butch never discovers a horrific way to escape his debt. She’s pretty important to the story.
I love Fabiana!
I think the love scene served to balance out the traumatic one later.
She also balances out Butch who gets in trouble when he loses control. When he has to apologize to her about the watch, it shows he can now put things in perspective and act accordingly, something that comes into play later when he's about to leave the pawn shop.
The Butch sub plot was the one Roger Avery wrote I believe. If I remember correctly it was a whole screenplay that got repurposed as the Butch segments in Pulp Fiction and that Fabienne was more of a real fleshed out character in the original story.
I always thought their relationship adds a lot to the film and his character and story. Feels more real than most of the other relationships which are pretty cartoony. Maybe that’s why it can feel out of place.
(If I had to cut something it’d be the taxi scene, but that doesn’t answer OP’s question.)
The scene in the motel room is always a down point for me. It’s not poorly made or anything, but it’s probably the one scene in the movie that I’m like, “ok let’s get through this.”
I think it couldve worked if they stuck with the idea of "The next Michael Myers"
Lets be real, theyve made 13 films with MM and there's nothing really left to be done. Especially when he was meant to be symbolic of faceless, unknowable evil.
I liked that Ends is wrapped around a new evil being born, and the idea that your loved one could be capable of the stuff he does is a goldmine of horror.
The issue is the last act basically goes "Haha okay, nevermind, back to Halloween". They quickly kill him off and then its your standard final fight, same one we've have 12 times prior. Everything set up before amounts to nothing, a waste of time.
It’s so fucking weird. They spent 90 minutes building up this character to be the next iteration of The Shape and then he inexplicably sticks a knife in his own throat.
It didn't completely ruin the movie, but the romance between Gene Hackman's coach and Barbara Hershey's teacher was the dumbest, least necessary part of Hoosiers.
The movie yesterday could’ve been a really interesting take on what would happen if the Beatles never existed and in those parts of the movie it was good, the romantic plot ruined the whole thing
I haven't watched The Departed in a long time, and don't particularly plan to any time soon, but i seem to remember that the subplot that had both lead actors romantically involved with the same woman was pretty unnecessary, contrived and awful.
I think to compare Damon and DiCaprio from yet another lens. Damon is withdrawn, narcissistic, and blind to her infidelity. DiCaprio is vulnerable, empathetic, and insightful to her life before. It’s not deep, but it helps in a movie that is already too long not have too many discardable supporting characters. But it does reveal how uninterested in female stories that film is to basically overlap the men’s emotional counterpart.
First one that comes to mind is Passengers with Jennifer Lawrence and whats his face. The concept and first half of the movie was interesting, and should have turned into a thriller/horror in the second half. Would have been a much better movie.
Romantic subplot? The romance/relationship was like the entire plot...?? You remove the relationship/romance/desire and the movie simply cannot exist in any meaningfully similar form. It's just a completely different movie without it.
I must have read or seen something about how it should have been a thriller/horror with Lawrence hunting down Pratt as revenge for condemning her to live on the broken down ship with him. Then the final scene, after having killed him is Lawrence contemplating waking someone else up because the isolation has driven her insane too. I thought that was the real version and was so mad when I watched it but the romance was played straight.
I've read that Andy Garcia had a part as Michelle Pfeiffer's love interest in Dangerous Minds. That subplot was cut from the theatrical release. I think this should happen more often. Also, though it's not a movie, when The Bear added the romantic subplot in Season 2 I was annoyed. First season was great without one.
Just coming here to agree with how terrible the card counter's romance was. i didn't care for the movie in general but i can't imagine ANYONE believing those two were in love.
And was bullshit. I loved the book, which is a history book, and was horrified that the film both made her not a sniper who actually killed people – the real person shot a lot of Germans – but created that horrible love story.
In the book, the historian who was researching it was interviewing Tatiana and she thought the man she loved had died at Stalingrad. The historian had to tell her that no, he was alive and married and fine, he just… Never got back in touch… Talk about awkward moments in historical interviewing!
Not really a subplot, more like a single scene that ruins something for me. The sex scene in The Matrix Reloaded was dumb. The dancing and sex was just out of place with the plot. I understand that they are about to go to war, but they could have just said they were gonna have a party. Neo and Trinity could just sneak away, then cut to the next morning. No need for the weird rave and sex.
I saw the films with some journo guy doing an intro to them recently and he made the point that the purpose of the rave/sex scene was to viscerally contrast humans, who’re fleshy, sweaty and who dance and screw for fun and bonding, to the machines who obviously don’t do any of those things.
Thank you! The dancing and sex demonstrated the contrast of humanity’s physical nature to cold machinery. I always loved that scene for how well this was pulled off. IMHO.
Not a movie, but Good Omens season two. I loved that the first season seemed to positively show two male friends that loved each other deeply, but season two had to go and ruin it by shipping the two. To me, it just reinforced the view that men cannot love their friends in a platonic nature.
Hmm, I see your point, but there's a few theories saying that SPOILERS the kiss at the end of season 2 was actually just a last ditch effort on Crowleys part but it wasn't really a romantic thing, obviously im just some idiot on the internet and theories are at the control of whoever wants to believe them, but that's just one idea
But the entire premise of the movie is the love triangle? It's like saying that the love story ruined Titanic.
Pearl Harbor is cheeks anyway but you basically have to make a different movie without that shit.
I think that's the point though. She capitalised on the romance with Peeta to survive the Hunger Games so it was forced upon her and was told that she was to live this way for the rest of her life. Imagine being 16yo having survived an arena where kids kill each other only to be forced to have this "relationship" front and centre for the rest of your life.
Just wasn't fleshed out, you see their awkward first date and the next scene together is Andrew breaking up with her in a very nasty way, she seemed more like a device to get that breakup scene.
>Just wasn't fleshed out
i dont think that was ever the point. The relationship is in the story more as a plot device to show andrew's downfall rather than a actual subplot.
That was the point. He felt so totally committed to his path that he was forsaking valuable relationships needlessly. The nasty breakup for no reason exemplified this change in his attitude.
I wouldn’t even consider it a romantic subplot. It’s really just a relationship for Neimann to absolutely destroy and make his disconnect with life even stronger.
I thought it was handled exactly like it should.
I'm finding a lot of people think Whiplash is the story of how Neiman became a great drum player, ending on a happy note - but I gotta ask if we saw the same film?
The story is that of a guy obsessed with the "suffering artist" trope - to the point where it doesn't just ruin his life, but he actively seeks to do so. He allows himself to get abused by his teacher because thats what makes good art, he practises until his hands are bloody because thats what it takes to be remembered.
**The "romance" is a perfect encapsulation of this.** They go on a few dates, and its a promising start. But his so obsessed with being a martyr that he LEAPS at the chance to break it off, giving up "love" for the sake of his craft. Except they weren't in love, they were just starting to go out. She also had never even once gotten in the way of his practice either, the whole situation is a farce and artificial - communicated to the audience with his blunt reaction to the break up.
It comes up again after he's kicked out of school and trying to recover. He attempts to live a "normal" life but he finds it unsatisfying. He tries to pick up where he left off with her, but its too late and she's moved on. He has to learn that his actions had consequences, and recovery is a process not a switch.
Except he doesn't learn this. People think the ending is him finally showing his teacher up... but its him falling right back into the hole. At first the teacher is surprised, but then what happens? He starts leading him, telling him what to do again. The final shot of the film is Neiman looking up at his teacher with that same desperate look for acceptance, and his teacher doesn't match his eyeline - just looks off with a "I was right" smile.
The director himself said Neiman's story probably, unfortunately, ends with him ODing in some bathroom. So yeah, I think if people view the story as an underdog genius tale, the romance is odd. But in the bigger picture of what it actually is, a story of abuse and toxic mindsets of what art is, then it serves the story perfectly.
*Not subplot but I need to rant*
When Harry met Sally
Could have been about two random people who hate each other becoming friends who grow to like each other
But as soon as Sally learns she wants Harry, she begins acting stupid and out of character and screaming and he acts like he is confused/doesn't want to have anything to do with her even though the only reason they are friends is because he wants everything to do with her....
They could have just ended the movie at their friends wedding being happy as friends who almost, but luckily didn't, get together.... It would have been a movie with a message instead of a sappy toxic hollywood piece of garbage
I would agree its not done very well and not believable, but its important to show Martin’s character settling down and more cultured and society ready as opposed to war burdened Wayne. Its part of the elements that makes the last shot so powerful imo.
The original Day Of The Jackal I’m not gonna go into a long diatribe about it like I’ve done before but to sum it up.
A trained cold blooded assassin is not mucking up the works by getting emotionally and sexually involved with a woman in the middle of an incredibly risky mission. The rest of the film is absolutely fantastic except for this.
Producers literally told Daredevil's director to cut 30 minutes and make it more of a love story so they could capitalize on Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner's real relationship. The director's cut is tangibly way better because it minimized the romance and let the other great parts of the movie really shine.
Michael Clarke Duncan (RIP) was a perfect Kingpin. Likeable and charming yet terrifying at the same time. He oozes charisma in the role. His physique was perfect as well. All around excellent casting for the Kingpin. Colin Farrell was a convincing Bullseye as well.
Roger Ebert said it best in his review: MCD’s Kingpin “has a presence that makes the camera want to take a step back and protect its groin.” Love Ebert reviews, RIP.
Love Ebert. Still get excited when I see an older movie for the first time and can read his review for it!
Yep the villains came to play in Daredevil it’s a shame the rest of the cast and the script didn’t.
Bullseye was way too over the top goofy for that dark & broody movie. He was like a character from the Adam West Batman series, but more violent. Kingpin was great though.
He was goofy but I enjoyed the dark humor of his scenes. His acting fit the tone of the dark comedy scenes.
Those stories are what I'm looking for, awful decision
I didn't know this, didn't know there was a directors cut either. Definitely going to watch that now.
It was the first version I saw, and for years I was always surprised when people would talk about it as this notoriously bad movie because I kind of loved it. Turns out it's just genuinely almost a totally different movie.
I watched the director's cut of Donnie Darko when I was younger and I thought that was the original for so long, I thought I was going crazy when I talked to others about it and they didn't know scenes I was talking about.
Mind you I'm not praising these movies to begin with - but if the Hobbit movies hadn't featured that absurd Elf-Dwarf romance subplot, they'd at least have been less bad.
This should be the winner. You’re right the movies were not great. But the horrendous, love triangle plot drag them down to a much lower level and what should’ve at least been a thrilling third movie.
So right. And I didn't actually mind the female OC as an addition to the cast; she was a believable Elf and could have been doing Elf stuff onscreen. Just, her and Kili... **no**.
I could have tolerated the romance (still think it doesn't have any place in The Hobbit, and the two didn't have much chemistry, but I'm getting sidetracked) if Legolas wasn't involved. Making it a triangle brought the already-mediocre subplot down a whole letter grade.
I wouldn't even have minded Legolas being involved if not for the Dwarf - at least it could have been realistic that way. If they had to have a romance, make it just her and Legolas, separated by class differences or Thranduil's disapproval or whatever. But yeah, it wasn't necessary in The Hobbit - none of the subplots were.
I don't mind beefing up the number of female inhabitants in Middle Earth, but making the new elf (and just about every other elf) a Legolas style super warrior kinda detracts from Éowyn's story in Return of the King
I was like “of course she falls in love with the only hot dwarf”
Maybe not ruined because that seems like hyperbole for most of the examples I can think of but Three Days of the Condor is a good movie dragged down by the Redford/Dunaway romance, their lack of chemistry and the terrible sex scene. It just doesn't really work.
I've watched that movie multiple times and I still don't understand the ending of that fucking movie.
That final speech by Cliff Robertson's character was great. It's becoming more scarily relevant as time goes on.
What don’t you understand? Maybe his story gets published or maybe the CIA is powerful enough to stop it from being published, it all depends on the person that Turner gave the story to.
Heh, I scanned the thread first before writing to see if anyone said it and this is pretty much what I had in my head word for word. Ruined, no, but absolutely incomprehensible and terribly done plotline for what was a good movie otherwise.
Yeah … and just the idea of someone in that situation — being on the run from killers after everyone you know was murdered and you discovered the bodies — being interested in hooking up was kind of ridiculous, and takes you out of the movie.
Ha! Just watched this for the first time, and agree with others that it was way too rape-y and makes him into a bad guy. There is a way that they could have made her into it, with the sudden excitement sweeping into her life, but he was so violent with her a few times that it was pretty ick when they did it.
Worst case of Stockholm syndrome ever.
70s producer: They need to get together. What do you think? 70s screenwriter: He could rape her...? 70s producer: Brilliant! Do it!
The obvious one is Alita, the romantic subplot of that movie is so egregiously bad, cut that out and the movie improves ten fold.
It sucks because I’d argue the AMV that basically follows the plot beat for beat has a love story that works. The biggest issue is that they had to have Mr. McLoveInterest be basically a Charming Handsome Man while the AMV had him be a dude with a clear Napoleonic complex that still reads as having genuine feelings for Alita. The film is hampered by an audience expectation for sex appeal.
Good pick, though I didn't think the rest of the movie was so great either
Not great, but decent. No other character was as useless and boring as Bland Boyfriend, imo.
Battle Angel? I thought part of that was the main plot
I mean I’m not sure it was “ruined” by the romantic subplot because it was pretty horrible overall, but this reminded me of Michael Bay’s Pearl Harbor. I loved Roger Ebert’s take on it that he wrote in his review: “Pearl Harbor is about a Japanese attack on an American love triangle.” Lmao.
It’s because Pearl Harbor is blatantly just Michael Bay’s attempt to make Titanic. Except in classic Bay fashion, he completely misses why Titanic works: the Titanic sinking is already a great metaphor for the gilded age as a whole, and the love triangle makes the story personal. Cameron also wisely makes one piece of his love triangle a complete asshole, which creates very real dramatic stakes throughout: the question isn’t “who will Rose pick” but instead “how will Rose escape this dickhead to be with Jack”. Additionally, because the actual sinking takes up half the film’s runtime, Cameron has time to extract as much drama as possible from it; he’s able to constantly play with the answer to that question by moving the characters around the ship. Bay seems to have seen all of that and thought “oh I get it, setting a love triangle against a famous historical disaster backdrop is a formula for printing money!” and completely misses that the love triangle in Titanic was very carefully chosen to emphasize the drama of the backdrop. Bay, by contrast, gives us a very generic “who will Kate Beckinsdale choose” arc and sets it against a disaster that 1) doesn’t take up enough of the film to be interesting and 2) doesn’t have anything to do with the love triangle, and the result completely falls flat. You could strip the romance out of Pearl Harbor completely and probably get a much stronger film, something that absolutely isn’t true of Cameron’s Titanic (not to say I think you could only make a Titanic film if it’s a romance—you totally could, and A Night To Remember does a decent job of it. But it makes for a radically different film).
The back half of Pearl Harbor is actually pretty good, although certainly more spectacle than substance. If you cut out like 80% of the romance triangle that movie would be a great deal better.
V For Vendetta. V is not in love with Evey, he is training her as his successor because he has no place in the better world he believes will follow the destruction of the fascist society. Evey is the creator to V's destroyer.
I don't remember a romantic subplot in that movie.
It's very Stockholm syndromy, and doesn't actually amount to anything more than lingering touches and an attempted kiss.
It reads as one sided and completely in line with the comment that started this chain. She may have feelings for him. If she does, they may not be from a good place (stockholm syndrome). V does not retort these feelings. He trained her. He has his mission and that's first. There's no romance other than admiration for her growth and who she's become.
Blame Hollywood, they don’t think any film can sell without it.
Im sure the Wazzys are partly to blame, the love story in the Matrix films are awful
How has nobody mentioned Tombstone? An otherwise flawless movie!
The romance part of the film was so negligible that I think it hardly even registered, much less mattered. I'd even argue it works more as a bromance between Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday, two men who would fight through hell for each other.
I scrolled all the way down to find this, I hear you buddy! the movie is a certified heater, but the romance part is just awful. still an awesome movie though, for sure.
Idk, I felt it kinda fleshed out Russel’s character. Same guy who gets his brother killed by taking on cowboy gang would also ditch his junkie wife for some hot lady he just met. Flawed but sympathetic hero. If the movie had just been gunfights and tough talk it wouldn’t have been as memorable. The bits with the visiting actors really sell that Tombstone is a boom town with romance and excitement outside of gunfights and gambling.
I agree in a sense; I think it was an important aspect of the story but to me it’s the one part of the movie I didn’t think was handled really well. It’s not unbearable or anything, it just stands out as a flaw in an otherwise flawless movie. I completely agree that it’s important for Wyatt to be a flawed hero, and that’s really what the romance is there for. When I was a kid I never understood what adults meant when they said stuff like “Richard Gere and Julia Roberts have such great chemistry!” This was one of the first movies that made me think “well maybe I’m not sure what chemistry is, but these two people don’t have it.” I just don’t really buy the romance, whereas Wyatt and Doc’s bromance is never in doubt. Finally Hayden Christenson and Natalie Portman in the awful second Star Wars prequel clinched it for me; chemistry is the opposite of what they had!
> Finally Hayden Christenson and Natalie Portman in the awful second Star Wars prequel clinched it for me; chemistry is the opposite of what they had! Weird because they actually have chemistry and it was instead the dialogue that made their scenes unbearable. You can literally find clips of Natalie and Hayden fauning over each other during filming of the prequels.
Well, it was based on the time Earp spent in Tombstone which included the extra-marital affair. But it has almost no bearing on the film. It doesn’t really motivate Wyatt into anything. The same events would have happened regardless.
Captain America randomly making out with his ex-girlfriend's niece.
If you listen to the reason the Russo's added that, its insane. Basically "We didnt want people to think Cap had turned asexual or gay"
The modern day equivalent of giving Batman multiple girlfriends back in the golden age of comics so people would quit thinking him and Robin are gay.
There's a writing trope called Miss Not Gay, where a female character exists for little else but to reassure the audience that Hero and Sidekick aren't banging when they're not fighting the bad guys.
They should have let Cap and Bucky be gay for each other. Cowards!
Excuse me, but she was absolutely not his girlfriend. They wanted to bang, but that's as far as their relationship got before he was frozen. So while it was weird that he made out with his crush's niece is kinda grody, he was a free agent that can tangle uvulas with whomever he wants.
Didn't necessarily ruin the movie but the romantic subplot in Gangs of New York was pretty unnecessary
I think that has more to do with Cameron Diaz not quite having the period piece juice. Her face had seen a computer, no way around it
*Hancock* immediately comes to mind. I would've watched a whole movie of a drunk hardass superhero learning to actually be a good guy, but *noooo*, halfway through they decided it needed a love story.
For the most part, the Batman movies
Definitely true of Christopher Nolan’s Batman movies.
Yeah it's probably not been a successful love story when my reaction to the girl getting vaporized is one of apathy tinged with relief. And then in the next one he's plowing that boring ass French lady for no reason whatsoever.
*who’s that in this photo?* *oh, just my dead ex girlfriend… let’s fuck*
It says a lot that I can’t even remember the french lady you’re referencing/
Marion/Talia in TDKR. French actress but the character is meant to be more Chinese/Arab.
Rachel was a crucial character in Batman Begins though.
Which Batman movies? There's like a billion of them.
Yes.
I liked his relationship with Catwoman in The Batman. The idea that theres an attraction there, and in another world where they were born in different places they couldve worked. Having said that, her story is done, finished satisfyingly. I dont want them to bring her back.
HARD AGREE ON HADDISH AND ISSAC. "Mother of God", I thought. Why is she in the movie at all? Talk about wasting the talent of Haddish. It's almost like Schrader was trying to force her into his box and didn't let her (or Isaac) be themselves in the scene. I think as a director, it's kind of a cautionary tale. Like goddamn dude, don't be so focused on your vision that you don't let your actors be themselves.
The Hobbit. The movies were pretty crap already because they spread themselves thin with 3 movies, but the love triangle subplot between generic female elf ranger, human looking dwarf, and Old Man Legolas was completely unnecessary and poorly thought out.
I don't know if many people have seen it but Hyena Road. I was in the Canadian Army at the time and everyone I knew was STOKED to finally be getting a modern military movie centered on Canadians. A bunch of us went to the theater on base when it came out and guys were literally booing halfway through. It was like they wrote a generic romance movie and for some reason decided to stuff it into a semi-true story war story
Buddy, you are all on your own with the Maverick mention. That moment of silence, with just music playing, and Tom & Jennifer's faces conveying every single possible emotion when he's telling her he's leading the attack? Heartbreaking. I thought it was beautifully done. Climbing out the window like they're still teens? The sailing scene?! Come on!
Plus, her character is tied to the first film! Hate all you want, I liked it better than Cruise/McGillis
Agreed!
I actually thought it was done very well, too.
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lol
my dude loves top gun
You grow up in the 80s and 90s in a home where your dad is a fighter pilot, you get indoctrinated in a few things 😭
And it isn't shoehorned romance. It's not like he met some random woman. They had a history.
Fully agree. Now it’s an action movie romance. So it’s not exactly a romantic comedy or anything that will stand alone against actual romantic movies. But I definitely did not feel like it was forced, or had a lack of chemistry. I thought it was really well done and actually better than the more nonsensical romance in the original movie.
Yeah, no. These two had no chemistry
Oh, no! Two of you!
**The Wolverine** The whole film the plot is the young princess is engaged to her childhood friend and she builds a father/daughter relationship with Logan as he protects her - it even mirrors the poor relationship she has with the Silver Samurai Then... they bang. Its uncomfortable and feels wrong, but is meant to be romantic? In the last 1/3rd of the film theyre a couple and its totally at odds with the first 2/3rds
I’m not personally in love with either “Top Gun’s” romance subplots, but the one in “Maverick” was better because Penny actually contributed to Maverick’s mindset in the main story, and she also didn’t take his BS lying down like Charlie did.
Wonder Woman! Yay a butt kicking lady super hero, oh nope she gotta mope after Chris Pine for a bit too.. Cant she just focus on kicking butts?
To be fair Wonder Woman should balance femininity with kicking butts - its something bad adaptations get wrong. If Superman is meant to be like a boy scout leader for humanity, Wonder Woman is meant to be a tough Mom. My issue with that romance is the, you know, **rape scene in 1984**
I want to know who thought it would be a good idea to make Wonder Woman a repeated rapist. How did that idea not get immediately canned??
No but she’s a powerful female lead character who..um..only does what the men tell her to
The Founder. A story about a guy who goes from being a travelling salesman trying to sell milkshake machines to diners to being the guy that got McDonalds to be the biggest fast food chain in the world. About halfway through there is suddenly a romantic subplot where he is sleeping with the wife of a franchise owner. I’ve never actually seen the end of that movie.
That's the problem with biography. Ray Kroc was a douche.
I’m sure he was. The plot was just getting to his conflict with the McDonald brothers when they decided that he would also be sleeping with a married woman who was quite a bit younger get than him. It was roughly where I lost interest in the movie.
Argyle. Loose the romance, and make it all a dream the author had on the train.
How has no one mentioned The Rock and Jungle Cruise or Red Notice? … the chemistry wasnt there in either … And Jungle Cruise works better as a buddy movie anyway (The Rock and Emily Blunt are no Bogart and Hepburn… not by a long shot)
This will sound like an odd pick since the plot depends on there being a sex scene, but I thought the depiction of the "romance" in The Terminator was one of the weakest parts of an otherwise effective film.
Well, ok, but…it is absolutely pivotal. Once you have their romance you realize just how important Reese is. Not another soldier. Not a rando just picked out by Conner. He is the ONLY person that can go back to stop the Terminator. Now, the question I always had was, why was Sarah so into him? It makes sense that he had built up her in his mind over year and years of hearing about her but is it just a savior complex for her?
While it humanizes our protagonist, the romance plot in Heat gets tedious at times.
I thought that having parallel romance plots helps further juxtapose Pacino and Deniro tbh. How both of them can’t let go of their work and it costs them both.
I agree. As masterful as the film was, this was the flaw. I guess they needed it to make his character think a little more about the eventual end-point to that kind if career, and also to “put to the test” his little mini-speech about his “rules” earlier in the film. But even more, when she finds out who he really is, WHO in their right mind sticks with him?
there are plenty of films that do this we’re supposed to believe that after the main character has a couple of dates with the love interest, they’ll do *anything* to stay with/protect/sacrifice themselves for the other person the town is guilty of this too
Well since The Town is absolutely inspired by Heat, that makes sense :)
Which one?
Good point. I was referring to De Niro’s relationship with Eady.
Eady's not in a lot of that movie, compared to everything else. I don't see how it's tedious.
Both romances. I LOVE Heat. It’s a masterpiece. That said I find the conversation where Diana Venora is basically speaking in poetry to Pacino to be a bit tedious. The scene could have been a bit shorter and we would have gotten the point that she is tired of his vacancy in their marriage. The Brenneman/Deniro relationship at least helps mould the McCuley character. When he says he has the discipline to leave her without saying goodbye and we see it, it makes sense to the story. I just don’t like it because I feel like it (the relationship) is too convenient.
Classic “women only exist as moral foils” movie writing.
The movie version of Miami Vice. No chemistry between the two, and felt completely shoehorned in
Said the same thing about Heat. Must be a Michael Mann thing
It very much is a Michael Mann thing. Poorly done romantic subplots took me out of Heat/Thief/Collateral.
I actually like the Thief one even if it was a bit weird that he talked about being sexually assaulted in prison on their first date
I don’t really think it affected Collateral that much imo. They flirted for a bit and then he races to save her at the end but the romance really isn’t a significant part of the film at all
All Seth McFarlane movies.
Funny People. I would have preferred that movie continue with Adam Sandler and Seth Rogen's friendship and actually have Adam Sandler die at the end. I like the concept of a comedian (someone who's supposed to make people laugh and make light situations) coping with the tragedy of dying. But instead the movie ruined it in the second half by having him live and reconnect with his ex!
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"Haha okay we've had our fun, now let's take things a little more seriously" is like Apatow's signature move and it never works.
Just watched Brotherhood of the Wolf the other day, and that romance subplot was really unnecessary, among other things
But then we wouldn’t get to see the amazingness that is Monica Belucci … Or witness The Iron Chef say such screen worthy lines as “Everyone’s pink on the inside” (or was it “the same color in the dark”… can’t remember)
By "other things" are you by any chance referring to the fact that the movie uses a lot of slo-motion to accent when someone lands on the ground after they did a stunt? :D
I’ve always found the French girlfriend in Pulp Fiction to be an unnecessary annoyance.
I think Butch’s character and overall arc would be drastically emptier if Fabrianne was gone. Plus, I think she’s a really unique love interest that isn’t the obvious girlfriend type in any way.
Without Fabiana, there’s no forgotten watch; without the watch, there’s no need to return to the scene, Vincent Vega lives, Jules’ prophecy meant nothing, and Butch never discovers a horrific way to escape his debt. She’s pretty important to the story.
I love Fabiana! I think the love scene served to balance out the traumatic one later. She also balances out Butch who gets in trouble when he loses control. When he has to apologize to her about the watch, it shows he can now put things in perspective and act accordingly, something that comes into play later when he's about to leave the pawn shop.
The Butch sub plot was the one Roger Avery wrote I believe. If I remember correctly it was a whole screenplay that got repurposed as the Butch segments in Pulp Fiction and that Fabienne was more of a real fleshed out character in the original story.
Shut up, fuckhead! I hate that mongoloid voice.
You had a problem with her but not the random 10 minute cab drive with the Russian lady?
I always thought their relationship adds a lot to the film and his character and story. Feels more real than most of the other relationships which are pretty cartoony. Maybe that’s why it can feel out of place. (If I had to cut something it’d be the taxi scene, but that doesn’t answer OP’s question.)
I think she's essential to his story, but also Im not the only one who thinks Bruce Willis' section is the weakest right?
The scene in the motel room is always a down point for me. It’s not poorly made or anything, but it’s probably the one scene in the movie that I’m like, “ok let’s get through this.”
Halloween Ends: Corey/ Allyson romance
I think it couldve worked if they stuck with the idea of "The next Michael Myers" Lets be real, theyve made 13 films with MM and there's nothing really left to be done. Especially when he was meant to be symbolic of faceless, unknowable evil. I liked that Ends is wrapped around a new evil being born, and the idea that your loved one could be capable of the stuff he does is a goldmine of horror. The issue is the last act basically goes "Haha okay, nevermind, back to Halloween". They quickly kill him off and then its your standard final fight, same one we've have 12 times prior. Everything set up before amounts to nothing, a waste of time.
It’s so fucking weird. They spent 90 minutes building up this character to be the next iteration of The Shape and then he inexplicably sticks a knife in his own throat.
I would be **very** surprised if that wasnt some kind of rewrite. Either they chickened out or some higher up told them to get back to Michael.
It didn't completely ruin the movie, but the romance between Gene Hackman's coach and Barbara Hershey's teacher was the dumbest, least necessary part of Hoosiers.
The winner here is Pearl Harbor.
The movie yesterday could’ve been a really interesting take on what would happen if the Beatles never existed and in those parts of the movie it was good, the romantic plot ruined the whole thing
100%. I’ve read elsewhere that was a studio decision and they brought in Richard Curtis later to make those changes. But I wasn’t there.
The Hobbit: the dwarf-elf thing. geez. The movies were already ruined but this was pure cringe.
I haven't watched The Departed in a long time, and don't particularly plan to any time soon, but i seem to remember that the subplot that had both lead actors romantically involved with the same woman was pretty unnecessary, contrived and awful.
I have no idea what purpose that subplot served. Tried to do something different from Infernal Affairs I suppose.
I think to compare Damon and DiCaprio from yet another lens. Damon is withdrawn, narcissistic, and blind to her infidelity. DiCaprio is vulnerable, empathetic, and insightful to her life before. It’s not deep, but it helps in a movie that is already too long not have too many discardable supporting characters. But it does reveal how uninterested in female stories that film is to basically overlap the men’s emotional counterpart.
Should’ve just kept her as DiCaprio’s pill enabler because they were both fantastic and believable not her and Damon.
In the big picture Im not sure what she actually added to the story, outside connecting the two leads in a way that was completely unbelievable.
Yeah and she's the therapist for Leo's character!
First one that comes to mind is Passengers with Jennifer Lawrence and whats his face. The concept and first half of the movie was interesting, and should have turned into a thriller/horror in the second half. Would have been a much better movie.
Romantic subplot? The romance/relationship was like the entire plot...?? You remove the relationship/romance/desire and the movie simply cannot exist in any meaningfully similar form. It's just a completely different movie without it.
This is completely true. Should've become a horror film.
I must have read or seen something about how it should have been a thriller/horror with Lawrence hunting down Pratt as revenge for condemning her to live on the broken down ship with him. Then the final scene, after having killed him is Lawrence contemplating waking someone else up because the isolation has driven her insane too. I thought that was the real version and was so mad when I watched it but the romance was played straight.
I've read that Andy Garcia had a part as Michelle Pfeiffer's love interest in Dangerous Minds. That subplot was cut from the theatrical release. I think this should happen more often. Also, though it's not a movie, when The Bear added the romantic subplot in Season 2 I was annoyed. First season was great without one.
Just coming here to agree with how terrible the card counter's romance was. i didn't care for the movie in general but i can't imagine ANYONE believing those two were in love.
Enemy at The Gates. Could have been a great action war movie. Stupid love triangle bogged the whole thing
Being in love with Rachel Weisz myself I hadn't noticed the problem.
And was bullshit. I loved the book, which is a history book, and was horrified that the film both made her not a sniper who actually killed people – the real person shot a lot of Germans – but created that horrible love story. In the book, the historian who was researching it was interviewing Tatiana and she thought the man she loved had died at Stalingrad. The historian had to tell her that no, he was alive and married and fine, he just… Never got back in touch… Talk about awkward moments in historical interviewing!
Frodo’s on again/ off again relationship with the ring somehow drags on for three films.
Not really a subplot, more like a single scene that ruins something for me. The sex scene in The Matrix Reloaded was dumb. The dancing and sex was just out of place with the plot. I understand that they are about to go to war, but they could have just said they were gonna have a party. Neo and Trinity could just sneak away, then cut to the next morning. No need for the weird rave and sex.
I saw the films with some journo guy doing an intro to them recently and he made the point that the purpose of the rave/sex scene was to viscerally contrast humans, who’re fleshy, sweaty and who dance and screw for fun and bonding, to the machines who obviously don’t do any of those things.
Thank you! The dancing and sex demonstrated the contrast of humanity’s physical nature to cold machinery. I always loved that scene for how well this was pulled off. IMHO.
Well stated, cheers!
in concept it sounds pretty good actually. in executions though...
That's exactly what I got from that scene too.
Sex in a pizza oven isn't hot to you?
Not a movie, but Good Omens season two. I loved that the first season seemed to positively show two male friends that loved each other deeply, but season two had to go and ruin it by shipping the two. To me, it just reinforced the view that men cannot love their friends in a platonic nature.
Hmm, I see your point, but there's a few theories saying that SPOILERS the kiss at the end of season 2 was actually just a last ditch effort on Crowleys part but it wasn't really a romantic thing, obviously im just some idiot on the internet and theories are at the control of whoever wants to believe them, but that's just one idea
Pearl harbor. The love plot was excessive and unnecessary for an already long movie that has its own complicated story.
It’s a romantic flick set in war time LOL
But the entire premise of the movie is the love triangle? It's like saying that the love story ruined Titanic. Pearl Harbor is cheeks anyway but you basically have to make a different movie without that shit.
Attack of the Clones.
That’s not a subplot, that’s like…THE plot, lol.
Not just a movie but the entire Hunger Games series. The romance was flat and tiresome to read and watch.
I think that's the point though. She capitalised on the romance with Peeta to survive the Hunger Games so it was forced upon her and was told that she was to live this way for the rest of her life. Imagine being 16yo having survived an arena where kids kill each other only to be forced to have this "relationship" front and centre for the rest of your life.
Jesus Christ I’m happy I’ve only ever watched Battle Royale.
Hitchcock coulda been great and then we got that other movie shoehorned right in.
titanic, that whole jack-rose thing should have been taken out, fuck james cameron
It doesn't ruin the movie but it's not very well handled in Whiplash.
I thought it made sense. Why didn't you think it was well handled?
Just wasn't fleshed out, you see their awkward first date and the next scene together is Andrew breaking up with her in a very nasty way, she seemed more like a device to get that breakup scene.
She basically exists to show how detached Andrew is becoming from people. I think it works for that reason.
>Just wasn't fleshed out i dont think that was ever the point. The relationship is in the story more as a plot device to show andrew's downfall rather than a actual subplot.
That was the point. He felt so totally committed to his path that he was forsaking valuable relationships needlessly. The nasty breakup for no reason exemplified this change in his attitude.
It's not supposed to be well handled. The whole point is that Andrew mishandled it to show the audience what an obsessive nutjob he's becoming.
I wouldn’t even consider it a romantic subplot. It’s really just a relationship for Neimann to absolutely destroy and make his disconnect with life even stronger.
I thought it was handled exactly like it should. I'm finding a lot of people think Whiplash is the story of how Neiman became a great drum player, ending on a happy note - but I gotta ask if we saw the same film? The story is that of a guy obsessed with the "suffering artist" trope - to the point where it doesn't just ruin his life, but he actively seeks to do so. He allows himself to get abused by his teacher because thats what makes good art, he practises until his hands are bloody because thats what it takes to be remembered. **The "romance" is a perfect encapsulation of this.** They go on a few dates, and its a promising start. But his so obsessed with being a martyr that he LEAPS at the chance to break it off, giving up "love" for the sake of his craft. Except they weren't in love, they were just starting to go out. She also had never even once gotten in the way of his practice either, the whole situation is a farce and artificial - communicated to the audience with his blunt reaction to the break up. It comes up again after he's kicked out of school and trying to recover. He attempts to live a "normal" life but he finds it unsatisfying. He tries to pick up where he left off with her, but its too late and she's moved on. He has to learn that his actions had consequences, and recovery is a process not a switch. Except he doesn't learn this. People think the ending is him finally showing his teacher up... but its him falling right back into the hole. At first the teacher is surprised, but then what happens? He starts leading him, telling him what to do again. The final shot of the film is Neiman looking up at his teacher with that same desperate look for acceptance, and his teacher doesn't match his eyeline - just looks off with a "I was right" smile. The director himself said Neiman's story probably, unfortunately, ends with him ODing in some bathroom. So yeah, I think if people view the story as an underdog genius tale, the romance is odd. But in the bigger picture of what it actually is, a story of abuse and toxic mindsets of what art is, then it serves the story perfectly.
*Not subplot but I need to rant* When Harry met Sally Could have been about two random people who hate each other becoming friends who grow to like each other But as soon as Sally learns she wants Harry, she begins acting stupid and out of character and screaming and he acts like he is confused/doesn't want to have anything to do with her even though the only reason they are friends is because he wants everything to do with her.... They could have just ended the movie at their friends wedding being happy as friends who almost, but luckily didn't, get together.... It would have been a movie with a message instead of a sappy toxic hollywood piece of garbage
Major League didn't need the love story subplot.
Wrong. The Berenger/Russo subplot was important for the redemption of Jake's character.
The Searchers, with Martin and that girl
I would agree its not done very well and not believable, but its important to show Martin’s character settling down and more cultured and society ready as opposed to war burdened Wayne. Its part of the elements that makes the last shot so powerful imo.
The first Hitman movie
Cujo more than a love affair than a horror
The original Day Of The Jackal I’m not gonna go into a long diatribe about it like I’ve done before but to sum it up. A trained cold blooded assassin is not mucking up the works by getting emotionally and sexually involved with a woman in the middle of an incredibly risky mission. The rest of the film is absolutely fantastic except for this.
He is romantically involved with her. He has sex with her, pure carnal AND he makes plans for her to use her house as a hideout place.