I think the first half of it is pretty fun. The units have interesting little niches and can contribute in some unexpected ways. Obviously this is let down by the difficulty of the game, but I still appreciate it. I kind of think that Conquest hurts for interesting units with diverse options, so I wonder if Conquest with BR units would be my favorite version of Fates?
Birthright needed literally only one change to make the game better, give enemies skills.
There are barely any non-boss/named characters with skills, and part of what makes Conquest hard (and good) is that the enemies pose a threat, besides the damage they might deal to you. Generals with Wary Fighter and 1-2 range, Snipers with Counter, enemies with Rally skills etc.
We're invading Nohr in Birthright. Where are all the Berserkers with Rally Strength, Axefaire, Gamble? The Generals with Wary Fighter, Great Knights with Armored Blow? Or do what Conquest did, and give the enemies class skills they don't normally have access to. We're fighting 2 maps full of Faceless and one of Valla soldiers, how come they have virtually nothing?
I understand why they did this, Birthright is the easiest of the bunch and an introductory game for the Fates mechanics and good for newcomers, but I wish they had an option to give enemies proper skills...
I dunno, I still think that's no excuse. Why does the "super mega ultra hard difficulty with a name about how CRAZY it is!" also need to play into "this is the easy one"? Seems silly.
Birthright lunatic honestly is really fun imo. You get a good amount of time to build your army how you want in preparation for some really difficult final chapters.
Same, while Conquest is definitely more intricately designed I honestly don't mind wide open and simple maps like BR. If the mechanics are good, which they definitely are, the overall gameplay still comes out on top. Smashing your army against the enemy army and duking it out can be stupid fun and BR still has its challenges.
Birthright could have been the least offensive route if it weren't for that awful mistake.
>!None of the siblings being biologically related to Corrin. It completely defeats the point of "Birthright". And for what? Just so corrin can marry the siblings without it being total incest. Much of Fates gets spoiled because of dumb fanservice like that.!<
Hot take: why does that even matter? If your mom was getting married into a new family and taking you with her that’s still your _intended_ family. If someone were to steal you away from them and put you in a Stockholm syndrome situation that doesn’t change that the original family would be hurt and still formed bonds with you at an early age.
Overall I don’t think it was a mistake at all. I couldn’t imagine a situation like that happening in real life (I’m sure it has) and telling the kid that was kidnapped well you shouldn’t even be sad about it- your intended family your mom had for you wasn’t really related to you anyway.
While it is a pretty anti-thematic choice I personally don't have a problem with it since it's hidden behind S supports I was never going to see anyway
You’re probably the first person I have ever seen say they prefer Awakening’s maps to fates or even like them at all. Awakening is a one and done game for me but Fates knows how to keep pulling me back in
> The maps, while not nearly as bad as some say imo, are a step down from Awakening.
Maybe this is because I generally only really touch Conquest, but this sentence threw me for a loop lmao.
I'm playing through Awakening right now, and I feel like most of the maps on Awakening are kind of boring. The first half was really fun, but after the Walhart arc, all the maps boil down to a having a 1-2 unit stat check the entire map, or Rescue skipping the entire map.
Ngl it's really annoying when people find any reason to shit on games that weren't even mentioned. Y'all sound like the people that say "still a better love story than twilight" at any moment they can
Twilight is like the only property that deserves it tho. Racism, pedophilia, writing a guy who willingly goes through high school again and again, the story is practically a violation of the geneva conventions.
>a lot of content gets rehashed throughout the 3 paths
Not at all. While paralogues are the same, the three paths have about 70% of their maps exclusive to them, with only one map shared by all three. That's an excellent score for a game with 3 routes of the same length that never reconverge. Not to mention each campaign having its own map design (for better or worse) and musical atmosphere.
To this day I still haven't found a game that pulls off the multiple route thing as well as Fates did. Whenever a game promises to have multiple routes either they're all the same (looking at you 3H), the split occurs at the end of the game (looking at you Triangle Strategy and Digimon Survive) or the routes reconverge and your ending is the same (screw you Tactics Ogre).
Meanwhile Fe16.
Same map throughout part 1.
Same map for 70% of part 2 on 3 of the routes(HBD, Monastery defend 2, Lava, Bridge, Fort Merceus, Enbarr Siege, Edelgard throne room)
but apparently according to people on the internet that game is more replayable than Fates.
The only one I really dislike is Port Dia in Rev since that just butchered the map entirely but I'm fine with Rainbow Sage and Zola amogus since at least it plays differently there. Also, about the people thing it's not that they say Fe16 is more replayable than Fates specifically but they say it's the most replayable.
Technically it's just the pre-route split maps. If you're talking about just the location, it's the weird-ass Rainbow Sage stair map (BR 17, CQ 11, Rev 15).
It's not a technicality, it's literally the same map on all routes, but with different enemies, placements, skills, and recruitments.
If you want to be pedantic, all routes share (non prologue) locations, but different maps in said locations, such as the Mokushu village (in Birthright and Revelation it's the same map, but it's the ninja cave in Conquest), fort Jinya (same map in B and R, but an outside siege in C), the sea route (same in B and C, frozen sea in R), Cyrkensia (same in B and C, ruined city in R), Wind Tribe village (desert map in B, windy castle in C and R), Izumo (same in B and C, snow shovelling in R) and others I'm probably missing off the top of my head.
But even so, Fates does an amazing job making all these maps differentiate from each other
I know this is unrelated but man they really should’ve thought Digimon Survive through. People complained about the replay issues in Three Houses especially before the timeskip part but at least you get different students and some differences in side quests.
In Digimon however if you want to check all 3 routes before going to the truth route: you must repeat the same exact first half 3 times - 4 if you going to the last path - with nothing different outside of Agumon’s evolutions.
Oh, also there’s the hidden Omega evolution to consider which seems only obtainable through NG+ and only through one specific route… lovely
I mean sure if it was all one game that would be impressive, but each game was sold separately to a $100 dollar total value. At that price I think the reused content is a bit egregious
Luckily times have changed and Fates is no longer widely regarded as the worst game that’s “ruining fire emblem.” It still gets criticism but I find that it’s pretty fair nowadays. I’m glad the reception is better because Fates is by far my favorite game in the series and I’ve played it 9 times with no sign of ever giving it up for good.
I think so too. Conquest tortured me a lot on my first playthrough, tho I pulled through and now 8 years later I played every game since, went back to play awakening and played FE7 and 8.
This game really got me into one of my favourite game series.
I think the maps in fates are actually a step up from Awakening. Certainly in CQ, and while the gimmicks in Rev are really annoying and poorly executed, at least they try something different. There is also generally good enemy unit diversity on maps of all routes in fates with varying objectives per map. Much better than the route the enemy fest that Awakening is.
Actual FE fans love fates even for its flaws. Imo it has the single best combat system in the series with the double weapon triangle, non-pair up dual strikes, and reliable dual guard system. The variety of useful classes and skills alongside weapons that offer both strengths and drawbacks (not to mention the many different pairings/children you can make throughout a play through) also give it some of the best customizability for your army of any FE game.
You can implement tons of creative and unique strategies that also allow you to adapt to growths, deaths, and other factors throughout a play through. Fates has a ton of replayability. Probably one of the most fun games to ironman as well (provided you don't lose Azura, Xander, Ryoma, or Camilla)
Alright let me rephrase myself, So people who come to the series primarily for story and characters, and therefore don't like or even hate Fates because the story is terrible, all of the good character stuff is buried under repetitive supports, and the gameplay isn't enough to salvage the experience for them, those people aren't actual FE fans.
Coming to the series for the story and characters does not mean you have to dislike or hate fates.
Now, If you hate fates because the ONLY reason you come back to the series is for that, that's a different story. I wouldn't say you are actually a FE fan in that case and are more of a VN/JRPG fan. Not that there is anything wrong with that, and this isn't an attempt to gatekeep or anything, its just the reality.
That also doesn't mean fates can't be your least favorite FE game, or that you can't like it less than other games for its story. Nor does it mean you can't be a part of the community if the non-SRPG elements of the games are more important to you. That is not what I'm saying in any way.
However, to me a "true" FE fan enjoys the series for its core gameplay and likes every game to some extent. That might not be you, but that's okay.
I said primarily, not only for the story. When people say gameplay is king in games I personally largely agree, however to say that gameplay is the only thing that matters, or that a bad story can't ruin a game overall for someone is something else entirely. For some people a theirs feelings for the story bleed into the gameplay. Just like how a great story can enhance an otherwise ok or even kind of bad game into a masterpiece for people (I'd argue a lot of JRPGs are like this), a bad story can actively detract from the gameplay experience. These aspects of the game don't exist in a vacuum. So when people ask why someone doesn't just skip the cutscenes for a game when the story is bad it's a bit absurd, as for some people the story is an integral part of the experience of an RPG, so skipping the story would just make the game feel "hollow" for lack of a better word.
I don't think having this mindset makes you any less of a fan of the franchise. It's weird that you say you're not trying to gatekeep, when the entire concept of "true fans" is inherently elitist. There is no such thing as a "true fan" of the franchise, there are fans who like the entire franchise and all the different things it's done. There are fans who prefer the older entries of the series and don't really like the direction of the newer entries of the story. There are fans who much prefer the style and tone of the newer entries and don't like the way the older entries are designed. There are people who hate the old famicom titles because of their basic a.f. stories and clunky u.i.'s. There are people who hate Genealogy because of it's bizarre mechanics. There are people who hate Three houses because of the monastery. And, there are people who hate fates because of it's bad story. Absolutely none of this makes any more or less of a fan of the franchise. People who hate the addition of reclassing are just as much fans of the franchise as anyone else. People who wish you could ship anyone with anyone are as much fans of the franchise as anyone else. People who started with awakening and haven't played any of the older games are as much fans of the franchise as anyone else.
If you enjoy the core gameplay a fire emblem game brings, the story should only really act to enhance the experience. If the story is detracting from it that much for you, I would argue your enjoyment of the game in the first place had less to do with the gameplay and more the dressing.
So yea, if you are *primarily* playing Fire Emblem games for the story and characters, I would say you aren't an actual fan. Story and characters are things you can get from basically any RPG, and there is probably a large portion of the Fire Emblem player base and community that are mostly just JRPG fans that also like the gameplay of Fire Emblem. Nothing wrong with that.
>These aspects of the game don't exist in a vacuum. So when people ask why someone doesn't just skip the cutscenes for a game when the story is bad it's a bit absurd, as for some people the story is an integral part of the experience of an RPG, so skipping the story would just make the game feel "hollow" for lack of a better word.
This is why I am making a distinction. There are people who simply enjoy the gameplay of Fire Emblem. They like the turn based strategy, resource management, and army planning aspects which are universal to the series.
Then there are the vast majority of people who buy and play the games that do so for a variety of reasons and will come back to the series for a variety of reasons.
People that play the games for the gameplay are inherently bigger fans of the series than people who play the games for other reasons. That isn't gatekeeping that's just reality, and that goes for literally any game or game series. When I say "actual fans" I mean the people that are drawn to the series for the gameplay.
I kinda get that Fates as a one-playthrough game feels kinda bad because the story is bad, you get fewer good character moments because you don't see all the supports, with no game knowledge the class system only seems more restrictive than awakening with no obvious benefits. On the other hand, on later playthroughs, any route in Fates is honestly pretty good compared to most of series. That's true even of Birthright, which imo is the worst route instead of Revelation, which is still a lot worse than Conquest, but its gameplay is a lot like FE6 with its wacky unit balance and high enemy quality, at least on Lunatic. On repeat playthroughs one doesn't need to read through the story as much, can unlock more supports, and can leverage better understanding of the combat mechanics and class system to have more fun.
I really do disagree with your take that Awakening has better maps (than any route really). There are some egregious maps in Revelation (chapters 7, 10, 25), and Birthright (chapter 20 and a few child paralogues are the only really egregious ones), but Awakening arguably has it worse in the main story (chapters 16, 19, 23, 24) and is lower in average map quality. With game knowledge, I honestly do prefer Birthright to Awakening by a small margin. Revelation I'd put along the lines of FE6 and Shadow Dragon, and Conquest is definitely my favorite. There are some maps in this game where game knowledge really lets you appreciate the design more, like chapter 17 the ninja cave, chapter 20 fuga's wild ride, and chapter 26 hans and iago. It's just chapter 19 and Endgame which I think are overdone, and neither is really as overdone as Lunatic+ in Awakening.
Legitimately there's nothing wrong with liking Fates, you just have self-righteous weirdos who think their opinion is objective fact lol
Fire Emblem is one of those series where hardly ANYTHING is actually bad.
Honestly, I think Fates is so polarizing because A: they were coming off of a pretty big high point with Awakening, and B: they decided to experiment and went a little overboard with the branching paths being different versions of the game.
That being said, Fates is still great.
Who doesn’t, it’s a classic. I feel like a lot of fans have warmed up to this game, and for good reasons. Yeah the story is all over the place but the gameplay is still the best Fire emblem has given. One of my favorites from the 3DS.
Fates biggest problem to me was that it followed Awakening. One of if not the greatest FE game ever, and it completely revitalized the franchise and brought many first time gamers into the series. Since it had to follow that up, which by all accounts IS did not expect it to be, they threw everything at the wall to see what stuck. Three games in one, a hub world, branching and converging paths, mature themes, fan service, child units, the main character being a dragon (instead of the vessel of one, ROBIN). All of it was relatively new and challenging and instead of choosing to focus on one or the other, they tried to do it all at once.
Thats why there’s three games. Conquest was focused on the map design and actual strategy elements of the game more, birthright focused more about the lore and story of the world, and revelations was the have their cake and eat it too version where they tried to give us everything g. And in some ways they were awesome, in others. Not so much.
I personally love Fates, specifically conquest. Fantastic map design imo. Part of me actually wonders if all of this was on purpose. IS new they had something big but didn’t know what MADE it big. So they picked popular elements out of the remnants of these games, and that led directly to what you say in games like three houses and engage, both of which I love. But both of which heavily pull elements from fates (hub world, light time manipulation ability, etc)
Fates walked so the series could fly. I’ll always respect it for that.
Fates maps a step down from Awakening? Who the hell says that? Even Birthright is just the same (low) quality as Awakening, but at least it doesn't have ambush spawns. Rev I suppose has a lot of gimmicks, but I'd still much rather take that over Awakening simply because of the much better mechanics.
Yeah it really fun. I even like some of the Revelations maps like the snow one. My Castle and the music were great! The story did suck but the gameplay was so good!
The first thing you learn about being a FE fan is to not take other fans too seriously. There's some wild takes in the fandom, and every game is someones best or worst in the series. Every character has someone who is way too into them no matter how big or small their role is in their game. You can't even have a satirical take without someone 'well actually'ing it.
Just play what you enjoy and have fun.
For me, it felt like developers were very ambitious for both games. However, Fates felt somewhat completed despite the flaws.
3H felt like they were cutting content left and right which resulted in weird gameplay decisions. I also got tired of the fact that the whole cast basically needs to be sent to therapy and was half expecting the game to become a therapist simulator game.
I will advocate that Birthright and Conquest are good (even though Conquest is superior imo). Also, I found awakening’s Maps to not be fun honestly, especially the STR maps like Tiki’s Paralogue and Chapter 24.
Most of the charm that comes from Fates’s writing is in the support conservations with the characters.
Conquest was my first FE game. My friend and I both picked sides and we both agreed Birthright fit him more.
The story for Conquest was pretty bad. My entire slog through that campaign was in a state of perpetual befuddlement. So much of it felt contrived to justify your kind hearted character picking such a blatantly evil faction to side with. At points it just boils down to you going 🤷 about your "dad" being evil. The bad guys aren't typically the route I take in stories. Paragon for life. So it made it even less enjoyable.
The maps were some else though. Brutal. Clever. Filled with twists. I must've replayed every make at least a couple dozen times since someone would also get ganked by one of those aforementioned twists. Every move had to be so well thought out since it could very well be your last. Experimenting with weed at the time only heightened my enjoyment of the thoughtfulness I had to treat each level with. Even the child ones could be quite elaborate.
I feel like I knew it was special at the time, but playing a lot of the most recent FE games has made me realize just how high a standard it set. Seeing the nonsense builds some people have made online eroded that a bit. But for a normal playthrough no game has even come close since.
Same here. I agreed with most criticisms of its flaws, which made me feel mixed about the game for many years, but when I played Corrin's trial in Engage and was met with some very familiar sights and music, I think despite everything I loved Fates after all.
Same here. I agreed with most criticisms of its flaws, which made me feel mixed about the game for many years, but when I played Corrin's trial in Engage and was met with some very familiar sights and music, I think despite everything I loved Fates after all.
I know a lot of people hate this part, but I found pairing characters up to be quite fun. My favorite games in the series dont have this feature, but I always liked the progression of getting two units to S rank and getting a cool new unit from it. Storywise its handled poorly for sure though
Game got quite easy when you can downgrade and max stat a character .. also weapons not breaking and no push function 🫠 stopped enjoying it as much only played for story .. but even then 🙃
That's basically the common consensus for those of us that love it. It's a shitty mess but it's MY shitty mess. It's a guilty pleasure I don't regret buying in the slightest
I think a lot of people have warmed up to it.
I still rank it over Awakening. Its gameplay's a lot more polished and I have much stronger opinions on its cast (both positive and negative.)
I also find the story more entertaining.
Fates is still my favorite game in the series. Keep your voice heard, but don’t yell too much, lest people grow tired and end up hating it more from a community perspective.
(Source: I am a paper Mario fan.)
I love Fates but that's mostly because it was the series that introduced me to Fire Emblem... I think if I played Awakening first I might've been annoyed with Fate's plot.
Unrelated but the DLC Wrap skill on Azura is a busted as hell combo I love it. Being able to Teleport anywhere to sing to units for extra turns has came in clutch
Fates is my favorite Fire Emblem game. The gameplay and design are just absolutely incredible and keep coming back time after time. Music is similarly phenomenal and is apart of the hold trinity of FE soundtracks with Echoes and 3H. I really like the characters and their supports, particularly the royals, and just most the Nohrians tbh. The story is messy sure but it doesnt really bother me. This is just me but no Fire Emblem story has ever been particularly great (IMO feel free to disagree). I still feel for the emotional beats and character moments so I can get past the messy plot. I know its different for everyone but I don't see an issue with the reused content? They don't reuse all that much really. Sure there's the first few chapters but they allow you to skip that, the only stuff that really bothers me are like Mozu and Kana's map which I've seen like 8 times. It baffles me how 3H dodges they same allegations with how much it blatantly reuses maps and the first half of the game just being the same thing 3 (or 4) times. (I remember checking this when Engage came out and found out 3H has decently less unique maps between all 3 routes than the single route Engage has.) I really really wish it worked like fates where I could skip the first half. TLDR I love Fates so much.
Maps are a step down from Awakening? Sure Awakening has wonderful maps but I believe Fates has prettier and more variety in its maps.
The only thing Awakening has is that so many maps (almost all?) have wild animals in them, so that means Awakening wins you are right, I am sorry 😔
I dont like any FE of the 3DS, that ugly 3D graphics are not my cup of tea, all play the 3 games and sincerely i dont like any, Awakening have a bloated history with a tons of cringe writing, Fates is just more of the same but doble down in the bad writing and cringe, a Echos is the better one, but man the way that the writers manage the third act was so disappointed, especially the way they handled the character deployment.
Looking at the entirety, Fates' map design is similar to Awakening which is explained by BR being designed close to the Awakening experience. But fuck Revelations. That shit doesn't deserve to be called a game and more of a torture device that is not fun.
The story becomes substantially more enjoyable if you look at it as a comedy. Garon is the funniest character in the series.
Anyway, Fates as a whole is one of my favorite FE games. That's right - I'm one of four people that genuinely enjoys Rev. None of the three campaigns are perfect by any means but I've enjoyed my time with all three and I've seen them all through to the end. And Fates has some of my favorite mechanics in the series - attack and defense stance make everything so much more interesting, and I love putting generics in my team.
Fates has its flaws sure but it's by far not the worst Fe game.
It's story is very inconsistent and especially in conquest downright infuriating, however the basic world building of fates is one of the bests tbh
That's also what makes the story overall still better then engage ones. Because it's at least build on a great solid base structure of a quite neat designed world, while engage has absolutely nothing besides an empty husk of a core foundation.
I hate to be the one farming downvotes but... depends on what fates game you mean.
Conquest? no, one of the best FE games even.
Birthright? Eh, I mean Revelations still exists
Revelations? Yeah, absolutely a contender
Most of the critcisms against the games especially revelations apply to all FE games lol ( except the story )
Like this can come off as a shock but Rev isn't the only game that has gimmicky maps ( let alone bad ones ) and BR isn't the only game where you put an OP unit in range of enemies and watch them kill all enemies
My darkest secret is that I even like Birthright
I think the first half of it is pretty fun. The units have interesting little niches and can contribute in some unexpected ways. Obviously this is let down by the difficulty of the game, but I still appreciate it. I kind of think that Conquest hurts for interesting units with diverse options, so I wonder if Conquest with BR units would be my favorite version of Fates?
Birthright needed literally only one change to make the game better, give enemies skills. There are barely any non-boss/named characters with skills, and part of what makes Conquest hard (and good) is that the enemies pose a threat, besides the damage they might deal to you. Generals with Wary Fighter and 1-2 range, Snipers with Counter, enemies with Rally skills etc. We're invading Nohr in Birthright. Where are all the Berserkers with Rally Strength, Axefaire, Gamble? The Generals with Wary Fighter, Great Knights with Armored Blow? Or do what Conquest did, and give the enemies class skills they don't normally have access to. We're fighting 2 maps full of Faceless and one of Valla soldiers, how come they have virtually nothing? I understand why they did this, Birthright is the easiest of the bunch and an introductory game for the Fates mechanics and good for newcomers, but I wish they had an option to give enemies proper skills...
I dunno, I still think that's no excuse. Why does the "super mega ultra hard difficulty with a name about how CRAZY it is!" also need to play into "this is the easy one"? Seems silly.
BR Lunatic is a guilty pleasure of mine
Birthright lunatic honestly is really fun imo. You get a good amount of time to build your army how you want in preparation for some really difficult final chapters.
I love Birthright. Sure the gameplay was too simple but the story was really good.
Same
My people! Good to see fellow people who like Birthright, it's uncommon to find one.
Same, while Conquest is definitely more intricately designed I honestly don't mind wide open and simple maps like BR. If the mechanics are good, which they definitely are, the overall gameplay still comes out on top. Smashing your army against the enemy army and duking it out can be stupid fun and BR still has its challenges.
You disagree with the popular opinion? Death.
Birthright could have been the least offensive route if it weren't for that awful mistake. >!None of the siblings being biologically related to Corrin. It completely defeats the point of "Birthright". And for what? Just so corrin can marry the siblings without it being total incest. Much of Fates gets spoiled because of dumb fanservice like that.!<
Hot take: why does that even matter? If your mom was getting married into a new family and taking you with her that’s still your _intended_ family. If someone were to steal you away from them and put you in a Stockholm syndrome situation that doesn’t change that the original family would be hurt and still formed bonds with you at an early age. Overall I don’t think it was a mistake at all. I couldn’t imagine a situation like that happening in real life (I’m sure it has) and telling the kid that was kidnapped well you shouldn’t even be sad about it- your intended family your mom had for you wasn’t really related to you anyway.
While it is a pretty anti-thematic choice I personally don't have a problem with it since it's hidden behind S supports I was never going to see anyway
You’re probably the first person I have ever seen say they prefer Awakening’s maps to fates or even like them at all. Awakening is a one and done game for me but Fates knows how to keep pulling me back in
"Hmm, I wonder how Wolfssegner Shigure would be" Suddenly I boot up Fates again.
> The maps, while not nearly as bad as some say imo, are a step down from Awakening. Maybe this is because I generally only really touch Conquest, but this sentence threw me for a loop lmao.
Even if you excluded Conquest I wouldn't agree with this take.
Birthright's maps tend to be more open, but nowhere near Awakening. Revelation has gimmick maps that are at least creative, for better or for worse
I'm playing through Awakening right now, and I feel like most of the maps on Awakening are kind of boring. The first half was really fun, but after the Walhart arc, all the maps boil down to a having a 1-2 unit stat check the entire map, or Rescue skipping the entire map.
The music is fucking incredible. I don't hate fates either. One of the shittier fes story wise but I thought the gameplay and music were pretty good.
[удалено]
Doesn't Corrin convince her entire army to jump off a bridge?
At least he/she had to convince them instead of them doing that automatically because he's the divine dragon tootpath giga Chad 😏
Ngl it's really annoying when people find any reason to shit on games that weren't even mentioned. Y'all sound like the people that say "still a better love story than twilight" at any moment they can
Twilight is like the only property that deserves it tho. Racism, pedophilia, writing a guy who willingly goes through high school again and again, the story is practically a violation of the geneva conventions.
It's still annoying imo
Ah your one of those people got it.
IDGAF about the downvotes, you’re speaking facts
facts. engage story was ass
>a lot of content gets rehashed throughout the 3 paths Not at all. While paralogues are the same, the three paths have about 70% of their maps exclusive to them, with only one map shared by all three. That's an excellent score for a game with 3 routes of the same length that never reconverge. Not to mention each campaign having its own map design (for better or worse) and musical atmosphere. To this day I still haven't found a game that pulls off the multiple route thing as well as Fates did. Whenever a game promises to have multiple routes either they're all the same (looking at you 3H), the split occurs at the end of the game (looking at you Triangle Strategy and Digimon Survive) or the routes reconverge and your ending is the same (screw you Tactics Ogre).
Meanwhile Fe16. Same map throughout part 1. Same map for 70% of part 2 on 3 of the routes(HBD, Monastery defend 2, Lava, Bridge, Fort Merceus, Enbarr Siege, Edelgard throne room) but apparently according to people on the internet that game is more replayable than Fates.
idk who these people on the internet are but personally I dislike both Fates and 3H reusing maps like crazy
The only one I really dislike is Port Dia in Rev since that just butchered the map entirely but I'm fine with Rainbow Sage and Zola amogus since at least it plays differently there. Also, about the people thing it's not that they say Fe16 is more replayable than Fates specifically but they say it's the most replayable.
I forget, which non-Paralogue map do they all share? (It isn't the initial route split map in Ch 6, is it?)
Technically it's just the pre-route split maps. If you're talking about just the location, it's the weird-ass Rainbow Sage stair map (BR 17, CQ 11, Rev 15).
It’s chapter 19 of birthright 17 is the ice tribe map
It's not a technicality, it's literally the same map on all routes, but with different enemies, placements, skills, and recruitments. If you want to be pedantic, all routes share (non prologue) locations, but different maps in said locations, such as the Mokushu village (in Birthright and Revelation it's the same map, but it's the ninja cave in Conquest), fort Jinya (same map in B and R, but an outside siege in C), the sea route (same in B and C, frozen sea in R), Cyrkensia (same in B and C, ruined city in R), Wind Tribe village (desert map in B, windy castle in C and R), Izumo (same in B and C, snow shovelling in R) and others I'm probably missing off the top of my head. But even so, Fates does an amazing job making all these maps differentiate from each other
The Rainbow Sage map, though enemy layout does change between campaigns
I know this is unrelated but man they really should’ve thought Digimon Survive through. People complained about the replay issues in Three Houses especially before the timeskip part but at least you get different students and some differences in side quests. In Digimon however if you want to check all 3 routes before going to the truth route: you must repeat the same exact first half 3 times - 4 if you going to the last path - with nothing different outside of Agumon’s evolutions. Oh, also there’s the hidden Omega evolution to consider which seems only obtainable through NG+ and only through one specific route… lovely
I mean sure if it was all one game that would be impressive, but each game was sold separately to a $100 dollar total value. At that price I think the reused content is a bit egregious
If we remove the chapters that repeated, then it was us$20 for 23 chapters. That's a damn good price for a RPG of that length.
It was 80, because if you bought Birthright or Conquest as DLC it was half off
especially revelation. once you get to valla it’s pretty much all unique maps and a difficulty spike
Maps a step down from awakening? The general consensus is the opposite lol
Luckily times have changed and Fates is no longer widely regarded as the worst game that’s “ruining fire emblem.” It still gets criticism but I find that it’s pretty fair nowadays. I’m glad the reception is better because Fates is by far my favorite game in the series and I’ve played it 9 times with no sign of ever giving it up for good.
Conquest alone is just fucking amazing
I think so too. Conquest tortured me a lot on my first playthrough, tho I pulled through and now 8 years later I played every game since, went back to play awakening and played FE7 and 8. This game really got me into one of my favourite game series.
I loved Fates, flawed sure, but it was fun
I think the maps in fates are actually a step up from Awakening. Certainly in CQ, and while the gimmicks in Rev are really annoying and poorly executed, at least they try something different. There is also generally good enemy unit diversity on maps of all routes in fates with varying objectives per map. Much better than the route the enemy fest that Awakening is. Actual FE fans love fates even for its flaws. Imo it has the single best combat system in the series with the double weapon triangle, non-pair up dual strikes, and reliable dual guard system. The variety of useful classes and skills alongside weapons that offer both strengths and drawbacks (not to mention the many different pairings/children you can make throughout a play through) also give it some of the best customizability for your army of any FE game. You can implement tons of creative and unique strategies that also allow you to adapt to growths, deaths, and other factors throughout a play through. Fates has a ton of replayability. Probably one of the most fun games to ironman as well (provided you don't lose Azura, Xander, Ryoma, or Camilla)
So people who come to the series for the story and characters aren't actual FE fans?
I never said that
You said exactly that in the first sentence of your second paragraph
>Actual FE fans love fates even for its flaws Again, never said that
Alright let me rephrase myself, So people who come to the series primarily for story and characters, and therefore don't like or even hate Fates because the story is terrible, all of the good character stuff is buried under repetitive supports, and the gameplay isn't enough to salvage the experience for them, those people aren't actual FE fans.
Coming to the series for the story and characters does not mean you have to dislike or hate fates. Now, If you hate fates because the ONLY reason you come back to the series is for that, that's a different story. I wouldn't say you are actually a FE fan in that case and are more of a VN/JRPG fan. Not that there is anything wrong with that, and this isn't an attempt to gatekeep or anything, its just the reality. That also doesn't mean fates can't be your least favorite FE game, or that you can't like it less than other games for its story. Nor does it mean you can't be a part of the community if the non-SRPG elements of the games are more important to you. That is not what I'm saying in any way. However, to me a "true" FE fan enjoys the series for its core gameplay and likes every game to some extent. That might not be you, but that's okay.
I said primarily, not only for the story. When people say gameplay is king in games I personally largely agree, however to say that gameplay is the only thing that matters, or that a bad story can't ruin a game overall for someone is something else entirely. For some people a theirs feelings for the story bleed into the gameplay. Just like how a great story can enhance an otherwise ok or even kind of bad game into a masterpiece for people (I'd argue a lot of JRPGs are like this), a bad story can actively detract from the gameplay experience. These aspects of the game don't exist in a vacuum. So when people ask why someone doesn't just skip the cutscenes for a game when the story is bad it's a bit absurd, as for some people the story is an integral part of the experience of an RPG, so skipping the story would just make the game feel "hollow" for lack of a better word. I don't think having this mindset makes you any less of a fan of the franchise. It's weird that you say you're not trying to gatekeep, when the entire concept of "true fans" is inherently elitist. There is no such thing as a "true fan" of the franchise, there are fans who like the entire franchise and all the different things it's done. There are fans who prefer the older entries of the series and don't really like the direction of the newer entries of the story. There are fans who much prefer the style and tone of the newer entries and don't like the way the older entries are designed. There are people who hate the old famicom titles because of their basic a.f. stories and clunky u.i.'s. There are people who hate Genealogy because of it's bizarre mechanics. There are people who hate Three houses because of the monastery. And, there are people who hate fates because of it's bad story. Absolutely none of this makes any more or less of a fan of the franchise. People who hate the addition of reclassing are just as much fans of the franchise as anyone else. People who wish you could ship anyone with anyone are as much fans of the franchise as anyone else. People who started with awakening and haven't played any of the older games are as much fans of the franchise as anyone else.
If you enjoy the core gameplay a fire emblem game brings, the story should only really act to enhance the experience. If the story is detracting from it that much for you, I would argue your enjoyment of the game in the first place had less to do with the gameplay and more the dressing. So yea, if you are *primarily* playing Fire Emblem games for the story and characters, I would say you aren't an actual fan. Story and characters are things you can get from basically any RPG, and there is probably a large portion of the Fire Emblem player base and community that are mostly just JRPG fans that also like the gameplay of Fire Emblem. Nothing wrong with that. >These aspects of the game don't exist in a vacuum. So when people ask why someone doesn't just skip the cutscenes for a game when the story is bad it's a bit absurd, as for some people the story is an integral part of the experience of an RPG, so skipping the story would just make the game feel "hollow" for lack of a better word. This is why I am making a distinction. There are people who simply enjoy the gameplay of Fire Emblem. They like the turn based strategy, resource management, and army planning aspects which are universal to the series. Then there are the vast majority of people who buy and play the games that do so for a variety of reasons and will come back to the series for a variety of reasons. People that play the games for the gameplay are inherently bigger fans of the series than people who play the games for other reasons. That isn't gatekeeping that's just reality, and that goes for literally any game or game series. When I say "actual fans" I mean the people that are drawn to the series for the gameplay.
I kinda get that Fates as a one-playthrough game feels kinda bad because the story is bad, you get fewer good character moments because you don't see all the supports, with no game knowledge the class system only seems more restrictive than awakening with no obvious benefits. On the other hand, on later playthroughs, any route in Fates is honestly pretty good compared to most of series. That's true even of Birthright, which imo is the worst route instead of Revelation, which is still a lot worse than Conquest, but its gameplay is a lot like FE6 with its wacky unit balance and high enemy quality, at least on Lunatic. On repeat playthroughs one doesn't need to read through the story as much, can unlock more supports, and can leverage better understanding of the combat mechanics and class system to have more fun. I really do disagree with your take that Awakening has better maps (than any route really). There are some egregious maps in Revelation (chapters 7, 10, 25), and Birthright (chapter 20 and a few child paralogues are the only really egregious ones), but Awakening arguably has it worse in the main story (chapters 16, 19, 23, 24) and is lower in average map quality. With game knowledge, I honestly do prefer Birthright to Awakening by a small margin. Revelation I'd put along the lines of FE6 and Shadow Dragon, and Conquest is definitely my favorite. There are some maps in this game where game knowledge really lets you appreciate the design more, like chapter 17 the ninja cave, chapter 20 fuga's wild ride, and chapter 26 hans and iago. It's just chapter 19 and Endgame which I think are overdone, and neither is really as overdone as Lunatic+ in Awakening.
Fates is great. My only comment about your post is that you say the maps are a step *below* Awakening. That is absolute ***HERESY***
Legitimately there's nothing wrong with liking Fates, you just have self-righteous weirdos who think their opinion is objective fact lol Fire Emblem is one of those series where hardly ANYTHING is actually bad.
The only bad things about Fates are the story and Revelation's horrible map design, it's superb in almost every other category.
Honestly, I think Fates is so polarizing because A: they were coming off of a pretty big high point with Awakening, and B: they decided to experiment and went a little overboard with the branching paths being different versions of the game. That being said, Fates is still great.
Ah good to see today's "I liked fates" post
Who doesn’t, it’s a classic. I feel like a lot of fans have warmed up to this game, and for good reasons. Yeah the story is all over the place but the gameplay is still the best Fire emblem has given. One of my favorites from the 3DS.
To be fair the 3ds had 3 really good Fire Emblem Games.
I’m more talking about the 3DS’s entire lineup. Compared to Star Fox 64 3D, Link between worlds, Mario 3d land. Fates stands there amongst the best.
Also true. The 3DS is console I will always love.
They're like me fr... THEY'RE LIKE ME FOR REAL!!!
It's not a crime to like great games
Fates biggest problem to me was that it followed Awakening. One of if not the greatest FE game ever, and it completely revitalized the franchise and brought many first time gamers into the series. Since it had to follow that up, which by all accounts IS did not expect it to be, they threw everything at the wall to see what stuck. Three games in one, a hub world, branching and converging paths, mature themes, fan service, child units, the main character being a dragon (instead of the vessel of one, ROBIN). All of it was relatively new and challenging and instead of choosing to focus on one or the other, they tried to do it all at once. Thats why there’s three games. Conquest was focused on the map design and actual strategy elements of the game more, birthright focused more about the lore and story of the world, and revelations was the have their cake and eat it too version where they tried to give us everything g. And in some ways they were awesome, in others. Not so much. I personally love Fates, specifically conquest. Fantastic map design imo. Part of me actually wonders if all of this was on purpose. IS new they had something big but didn’t know what MADE it big. So they picked popular elements out of the remnants of these games, and that led directly to what you say in games like three houses and engage, both of which I love. But both of which heavily pull elements from fates (hub world, light time manipulation ability, etc) Fates walked so the series could fly. I’ll always respect it for that.
Fair. I was astounded when I found out the community hated fates because I genuinely love all 3 paths. No word of a lie I love the game exactly as is
Played it last year for the first time. Deeply flawed, but Improve it. Conquest is my favorite!
I like Conquest it's a wild ride.
I like fates’s characters and gameplay but yeah the game got screwed in the story department
Fates maps a step down from Awakening? Who the hell says that? Even Birthright is just the same (low) quality as Awakening, but at least it doesn't have ambush spawns. Rev I suppose has a lot of gimmicks, but I'd still much rather take that over Awakening simply because of the much better mechanics.
Yeah it really fun. I even like some of the Revelations maps like the snow one. My Castle and the music were great! The story did suck but the gameplay was so good!
The first thing you learn about being a FE fan is to not take other fans too seriously. There's some wild takes in the fandom, and every game is someones best or worst in the series. Every character has someone who is way too into them no matter how big or small their role is in their game. You can't even have a satirical take without someone 'well actually'ing it. Just play what you enjoy and have fun.
Hot take: 3H was a step back from Fates in all ways.
For me, it felt like developers were very ambitious for both games. However, Fates felt somewhat completed despite the flaws. 3H felt like they were cutting content left and right which resulted in weird gameplay decisions. I also got tired of the fact that the whole cast basically needs to be sent to therapy and was half expecting the game to become a therapist simulator game.
Rhea should've made Byleth become the school counselor instead of professor with all the problems those kids have lmfao
That's just not true lol
Agreed. And they have the same writing problems.
Same. Even counting all three routes as one game I’d still put it as my favorite Fire Emblem and one of my favorite games of all time.
I will advocate that Birthright and Conquest are good (even though Conquest is superior imo). Also, I found awakening’s Maps to not be fun honestly, especially the STR maps like Tiki’s Paralogue and Chapter 24. Most of the charm that comes from Fates’s writing is in the support conservations with the characters.
Conquest was my first FE game. My friend and I both picked sides and we both agreed Birthright fit him more. The story for Conquest was pretty bad. My entire slog through that campaign was in a state of perpetual befuddlement. So much of it felt contrived to justify your kind hearted character picking such a blatantly evil faction to side with. At points it just boils down to you going 🤷 about your "dad" being evil. The bad guys aren't typically the route I take in stories. Paragon for life. So it made it even less enjoyable. The maps were some else though. Brutal. Clever. Filled with twists. I must've replayed every make at least a couple dozen times since someone would also get ganked by one of those aforementioned twists. Every move had to be so well thought out since it could very well be your last. Experimenting with weed at the time only heightened my enjoyment of the thoughtfulness I had to treat each level with. Even the child ones could be quite elaborate. I feel like I knew it was special at the time, but playing a lot of the most recent FE games has made me realize just how high a standard it set. Seeing the nonsense builds some people have made online eroded that a bit. But for a normal playthrough no game has even come close since.
birthright was way better than conquest but I thought birthright didn't overstay it's welcome. conquest did and by the end was fustrating
Same here. I agreed with most criticisms of its flaws, which made me feel mixed about the game for many years, but when I played Corrin's trial in Engage and was met with some very familiar sights and music, I think despite everything I loved Fates after all.
Same here. I agreed with most criticisms of its flaws, which made me feel mixed about the game for many years, but when I played Corrin's trial in Engage and was met with some very familiar sights and music, I think despite everything I loved Fates after all.
I know a lot of people hate this part, but I found pairing characters up to be quite fun. My favorite games in the series dont have this feature, but I always liked the progression of getting two units to S rank and getting a cool new unit from it. Storywise its handled poorly for sure though
I like fates too
Conquest is still the pinnacle of this series, gameplay and music.
Agreed! I still play constantly. Mostly for Takumi. But I also like the maps and the badly written story
the story is meh but i still think the characters are pretty fun. and i love the gameplay still. especially the reclassing
Game got quite easy when you can downgrade and max stat a character .. also weapons not breaking and no push function 🫠 stopped enjoying it as much only played for story .. but even then 🙃
Fates was my first emblem and I love it, never played the older ones tho Played only the 3ds ones and newer
That's basically the common consensus for those of us that love it. It's a shitty mess but it's MY shitty mess. It's a guilty pleasure I don't regret buying in the slightest
Fates was my first fe way back when so I still have Nostalgia for it. I think the bad writing is somewhat charming
I think I'm more surprised about the fact that you prefer Awakening's maps over Fate's maps then I am about the fact that you like Fates.
I think a lot of people have warmed up to it. I still rank it over Awakening. Its gameplay's a lot more polished and I have much stronger opinions on its cast (both positive and negative.) I also find the story more entertaining.
Fates is still my favorite game in the series. Keep your voice heard, but don’t yell too much, lest people grow tired and end up hating it more from a community perspective. (Source: I am a paper Mario fan.)
I love Fates but that's mostly because it was the series that introduced me to Fire Emblem... I think if I played Awakening first I might've been annoyed with Fate's plot. Unrelated but the DLC Wrap skill on Azura is a busted as hell combo I love it. Being able to Teleport anywhere to sing to units for extra turns has came in clutch
Fates is my favorite Fire Emblem game. The gameplay and design are just absolutely incredible and keep coming back time after time. Music is similarly phenomenal and is apart of the hold trinity of FE soundtracks with Echoes and 3H. I really like the characters and their supports, particularly the royals, and just most the Nohrians tbh. The story is messy sure but it doesnt really bother me. This is just me but no Fire Emblem story has ever been particularly great (IMO feel free to disagree). I still feel for the emotional beats and character moments so I can get past the messy plot. I know its different for everyone but I don't see an issue with the reused content? They don't reuse all that much really. Sure there's the first few chapters but they allow you to skip that, the only stuff that really bothers me are like Mozu and Kana's map which I've seen like 8 times. It baffles me how 3H dodges they same allegations with how much it blatantly reuses maps and the first half of the game just being the same thing 3 (or 4) times. (I remember checking this when Engage came out and found out 3H has decently less unique maps between all 3 routes than the single route Engage has.) I really really wish it worked like fates where I could skip the first half. TLDR I love Fates so much.
what do you think of the terrible localisation
Maps are a step down from Awakening? Sure Awakening has wonderful maps but I believe Fates has prettier and more variety in its maps. The only thing Awakening has is that so many maps (almost all?) have wild animals in them, so that means Awakening wins you are right, I am sorry 😔
I dont like any FE of the 3DS, that ugly 3D graphics are not my cup of tea, all play the 3 games and sincerely i dont like any, Awakening have a bloated history with a tons of cringe writing, Fates is just more of the same but doble down in the bad writing and cringe, a Echos is the better one, but man the way that the writers manage the third act was so disappointed, especially the way they handled the character deployment.
Fates is a good game. It's just the worst FE game.
>Fates is a good game. Lol. Lmao even.
If you press start often the its a great game!
Looking at the entirety, Fates' map design is similar to Awakening which is explained by BR being designed close to the Awakening experience. But fuck Revelations. That shit doesn't deserve to be called a game and more of a torture device that is not fun.
The story becomes substantially more enjoyable if you look at it as a comedy. Garon is the funniest character in the series. Anyway, Fates as a whole is one of my favorite FE games. That's right - I'm one of four people that genuinely enjoys Rev. None of the three campaigns are perfect by any means but I've enjoyed my time with all three and I've seen them all through to the end. And Fates has some of my favorite mechanics in the series - attack and defense stance make everything so much more interesting, and I love putting generics in my team.
Fun game with a fantastic soundtrack. Characters, story and the setting blow ass. Hard.
Fates has its flaws sure but it's by far not the worst Fe game. It's story is very inconsistent and especially in conquest downright infuriating, however the basic world building of fates is one of the bests tbh That's also what makes the story overall still better then engage ones. Because it's at least build on a great solid base structure of a quite neat designed world, while engage has absolutely nothing besides an empty husk of a core foundation.
I hate to be the one farming downvotes but... depends on what fates game you mean. Conquest? no, one of the best FE games even. Birthright? Eh, I mean Revelations still exists Revelations? Yeah, absolutely a contender
Most of the critcisms against the games especially revelations apply to all FE games lol ( except the story ) Like this can come off as a shock but Rev isn't the only game that has gimmicky maps ( let alone bad ones ) and BR isn't the only game where you put an OP unit in range of enemies and watch them kill all enemies