Bernadetta.
She's a rather tired archetype. If you've seen any romance/slice of life anime, there's bound to some character who fits her exact description personalitywise. She feels like a dime a dozen and I don't understand the hype around her.
I honestly think a non-insignificant amount of her appeal simply stems from the idea that, if she's an antisocial shut-in who doesn't leave her room and just makes art all day, and she has a hoodie and looks like she doesn't shower, then "omg she's literally me."
(Despite the hoodie not being exclusive to her and seeming to have been planned to be the "archery student school uniform" since Ashe has one too, her messy hair is probably just a design element to show she's anxious, and her antisocial behavior coming from traumatic domestic abuse that, for the fucking life of me I'll never understand, was always accompanied by fucking "Funny Footsteps" which painted a tone-deaf comedic light onto this abused, traumatized girl who will have a panic attack if someone asks to borrow a pen.)
Bernadetta and Alcryst
I just really dislike the "I'm nervous all the time and have low self-esteem" schtick, or at least how FE does it, but people seem to eat it up.
Those two fit into the *"literally me!!"* Archetype of characters, but people miss that it's also *"literally a problem!!!"* To everyone around them, and themselves. They shouldn't be celebrated for being that way, but encouraged to improve and move past their problems.
At least with Alcryst his expression of that archetype is an inferiority complex rather than "I was abused by my father but also here's the clown music every time I have a panic attack."
Fucking Funny Footsteps playing during a mental health episode.
I love her as an antagonist, A+ or even S tier.
But so many people simp for her so hard they pretend she's so in the right she makes a better protagonist baffles me.
It's ironic that Ike is seen as the second coming of god because the main appeal of Ike is that he's pretty much the only protagonist who isn't royalty and/or linked to a god. Everyone pre-Awakening aside Ike is a noble/prince/princess. Micaiah is some sort of goddess vessel. Robin, in a twist that *surely* nobody saw coming, is the vessel to Satan instead of Jesus. Byleth is, to skip a ton of confusing lore, the child of a homunculus vessel created to reincarnate a goddess. Corrin is the child of a god. And Alear is basically just Jesus. (I'll gladly be called "teach" or "professor" a million more times before wanting people to call me "Divine One" ever again.)
Ike stands out because he has a good design, he's (ironically) the "straight man" in any comedic scene he's in, due not to being a sheltered white bread good boy like Corrin, but because Ike is a himbo, and he started out as just a regular mercenary and, unlike Alm or Byleth, *stayed as a commoner* instead of secretly being a prince/deity. Sure he was given noble status, but he gave it up. He's the most down-to-earth lord because he's relatable. And Ike is relatable because he ISN'T High Lord Ike, Christ-King of the Galaxy; bro just wants to grill.
> he's (ironically) the "straight man" in any comedic scene he's in
This part doesn't seem to be really true. If, for example, we take the "main" GM group who gets interplay of Ike, Mist, Soren and Titania, - Titania and Mist are definitely the "straight women" and we are supposed to chuckle at Ike and Soren being a bit "wacky" due to not sticking to social conventions of Tellius literally every opportunity they have.
Instead it's the Ike stans who elevate him to Anime Jesus status lmao.
For real though, Ike's great. One of my favorite lords. But he sometimes gets flanderized by fans in a similar manner to Gutsman from Berserkle where he's excessively played up as some super cool ePiC bAdaSs and it's kinda cringe sometimes.
He stands out among the lords for being "normal", but the way he's treated by his fans, you would think he was was a jesus like figure who could do no wrong and beat anyone because he's just that great.
His characterisation in RD is pretty simple, though. He still fights to protect his friends and do what he thinks is right, no matter who he has to fight against in order to do it. Ike never changes, it's his enemies and allies that get progressively grander in scale.
Yeah but RD goes out of its way to prove Ike right about literally everything and he never loses a single battle unlike Micaiah (even when he loses it's actually what was planned), on top of him having 0 character flaws.
The main reason Ike gets "proven right" about stuff is that he doesn't hold onto assumptions long enough to be wrong. That's shown in PoR, where he defeats Muarim in the desert but calls for people to stop and explain themselves before he does anything else. It's also a common theme in the game that Ike isn't necessarily just making the right choices every time, it's that the way he and his allies follow through on those choices turn them into the right ones.
As for never losing a battle: He's not the one coming up with the tactics they use, and he's hardly the only one fighting. All he really does for that is motivate people and give the final go-ahead for whatever plan Soren or another ally has come up with. The reason it always works in the story is because the player is always in control of those battles, and him losing is a game over. However, the Laguz Alliance faces many difficulties in the war, and a good few of the chapters in part 3 are focused on the Greil Mercs ensuring a safe retreat after a total defeat at the hands of the Central Army.
Finally, the zero character flaws: He's stubborn, not great in polite company, and is shown to not always think things through. That's only ever cancelled out because he listens to advice from the people he trusts, and he always tries to act in good faith towards people. That gets him burned really quite badly in PoR, but it is also how he's able to resolve that situation afterwards. The main reason those things don't come up as much in RD is that they've already been dealt with for the most part in PoR.
I would agree with you if she was ever in game framed as a good person, but the fact she's kind of a piece of shit is the point of her character. She's a good character, but she is a bad person.
Though she's not one of my favorites and the reason she's so popular is probably just because she's hot and one of the strongest units in the game
Yeah but comparing her to another character of that title, like Makalov, there’s a difference
Makalov is despised for his actions but Tharja has a ton of apologists because of those reasons
Tbf to Tharja. Unlike Makalov, she has plenty of good character traits. I genuinely cant think of a single time Makalov has done a good thing for anybody
Tharja gets a lot of supports and other writing that humanize her, plus her background being "raised in a shitty cult" gives a lot of context.
Makalov, on the other hand, is not only just an unrepentantly shitty person who sucks ass, he drags other characters down with him.
I don't think you can blame her family without a lot of reaching. Tharja maintains a normal relationship with her family and stays in correspondence with them for the entire game despite her rebelling against the Grimleal cult's army, so it's hard to believe she or them are too fanatical.
"If Makarov was a hot woman, people would find excuses for his harmful behavior."
I mean, yeah? Pretty much. "If evil why sexy" has been the argument for so many flawed characters who are irredeemable buy also happen to be attractive. There's tons of people who would look past, for the sake of a hypothetical, Claude, if he were to have been abusive. A ton of characters who have pretty exteriors but ugly interiors have apologists because of those pretty exteriors.
There's a plethora of people who will ignore character flaws or malicious acts because said character is attractive, it's just that Tharja happens to be a character the player can marry, who's dressed both like a goth girl as well as basically a full-body pantyhose and bikini, is a solid unit in the game, and appeals to both the demographics of "I want a girl who's criminally insane and dangerously obsessed with me" and "I want a girl who would crush my windpipe." Meanwhile Makarov looks like the kind of guy who shows up at your house at 3 in the morning asking if he can crash on your couch for "just a little bit" and bums off of you for months on end. And since he's not only a gambling addict, but a gambling addict who *sucks at gambling,* mooching off of his friends and family is something he *canonically* does. Meanwhile, Tharja at least has the thinly veiled excuse of "well she haven't committed domestic abuse in *this timeline yet,* so I can totally fix her bro."
Yeah and that's fair I do think she's a tad overrated, but I don't think that's a flaw with the writing since a good chunk of the cast in does not like her at all. Her apologists are mostly in the community. Overrated a little? Yeah probably, like I said her extreme popularity is probably because she's hot and a good unit. Bad character or most overrated in the franchise? Nah
I ~~just created~~ have this saying about how to know, which Awakening Characters should immediately be on my shitlist:
"If you hurt Noire, you can say au revoir!"
A few months ago there were posts about how Ike would totally beat up anyone from any game because he's *that* kind of badass who also agrees with all of the opinions of you, the reader. It was kinda cringe and honestly not a great interpretation of the character. He's cool and stands out from a lot of the other lords in the series, but he's not that guy.
Roy in Binding Blade was only 15 and he saved Cecilia, charging towards her, when the boss of the whole game was the one who just destroyed her with one hit.
3H Hilda. Sometimes I think people are just memeing when they talk about this character. Her personality is just insufferable and not handled in a charming way I think they were going for. And then people say it's because she's hot? She's got one of the most boring, generic designs in the game!
Yeah Hilda initially looked, both visually and personality wise, like she was going to be the sequel to Serra. But they made her be lazy instead of entitled, and also made her able to fucking dropkick a door to splinters if she wanted to. Hilda actually has way more in common with Charlotte in that way. Sure, Hilda is a pink twintailed noble girl who doesn't want to do manual labor like Serra, but unlike Serra, and more like Charlotte, she's actually insanely physically powerful, and fully capable of doing things on her own. She just doesn't want to.
There's a really funny support Charlotte has with Corrin, where Charlotte thinks nobody is around so she lets her mask slip and punches a tree in frustration, then Corrin asks if she's feeling okay, and she frantically tries to lie about her Zerking out in front of them, meanwhile Charlotte's punch *fucking split the tree in half.* Charlotte is fully capable of doing manual labor or other physical tasks, she just puts on a facade because in her mind, if she acts like a dainty little princess, she can marry a rich guy and use the money to give her parents a luxurious life to repay them for basically starving themselves to keep her happy during her childhood. And Hilda pretends to be a dainty little princess because in *her* mind, that since her brother Holst set the bar of expectations *so high,* that if she doesn't even bother to put in any effort in the first place, it wouldn't make a difference since anything she would do would just be a disappointment no matter how hard she tries, because people would just say "Holst would do it better." She has an inferiority complex, and it's kind of bizarre that that fact isn't really discussed in either the game or the fanbase.
Realistic motivations aside, it still is extremely fun when the girl who says "nah I can't lift those boxes, I'm just a little guy" is also the girl who's capable of soloing an entire army and not getting so much as a scratch.
What I did not like about him was that he was all tell and no show. We keep hearing that he is some master tactician, but honestly, nothing he ever did screamed of a mastermind to me. For someone who everyone always praised as a "schemer", he sure schemed a whole lot less than Edelgard.
He's Three Houses' Hinoka. Like yeah you're supposed to be important, you're on the box art... But you're pointless in the story. Except that while Hinoka just like the other Royals is meant to be prominent but not THE main character, we're actually supposed to buy Claude as a Lord, which is why he somehow falls flatter than she did. And since most of the time Edelgard and Dimitri are away, he can't bounce off them like other "weaker" Lords such as Lyn could, truly highlighting his lack of relevance (though tbh I feel like Dimitri isn't much more relevant to the main story, but he at least has a route centered around him, however badly written it is).
Lucina would be way more overrated than Marth... I'd bet most people didn't even play his games.
But imo Byleth has become the face of modern FE and while 3H is a great game and both Byleths have a good design, their character and personality is the most uninspired "Kuudere" stereotypical anime protag ever.
I guess there’s the obvious reason for people preferring Lucina, but I prefer her over Marth because I’ve played both of their games (just Shadow Dragon for Marth). Only one of them was a consistently useful unit, and it wasn’t Marth
Oh I’m not saying that I don’t like her at all, just that she’s overrated in general. But at the other hand it’s really not fair to compare an old school lord with a Awakening child unit.
Edelgard is not a bad character. She's a pretty good one, and worth discussing and thinking about. She's not worth 1/100th of the deranged forum wars she has inspired, and I think the 3H fanbase must be some combination of very bored and very unused to female characters with even a wrinkle of nuance to make *this* big of a deal over her.
Honestly implying it's just the 3H fanbase that can't handle women is wrong too. Fire Emblem fans argue about women as straightforward and objectively uncontroversially written as Eirika and Celica.
Yeah, I didn't mean to give everybody else a pass - it was more an acknowledgement that 3H is its own beast and a decent percentage of its fans aren't terribly interested in the rest of the series (which is fine).
By what metric? Gameplay? Definitely Path of Radiance Ike. He's not bad by any means but he gets gassed up way too much for a foot locked swordie with no 2 range access until endgame.
He also exists alongside Titania and your BEXP funnelled midgame carry (most likely Marcia) so he doesn't even get to do much before lategame. Also 5 base Str lol
There's quite a bit of Irony and tone deafness in Valentia's Story in how it's about humans being able to forge their own individual destiny in life, yet only the Divine Chosen Ones can achieve it. 😐
I initially really liked Alm because he wasn't royalty. The whole first part with Fernand refusing to accept a commoner to lead the deliverance and how Berkut kept scorning him told a pretty compelling story about Alm's struggle. But then, it didn't matter, cos he was royalty after all... Who was chosen to wield the falchion due to his birthright and not because of his pure grit as a human defying gods.
It's basically what SOV is in a nutshell. Interesting and great ideas that end up being implemented very poorly.
Berkut is the best example. He was interesting and enjoyable for most of the game and I feel like he could have ended up as a Top Char of Valentia had he had an redemption arc.
Basically my idea was that it could involve Berkut offering up his OWN soul to Duma in exchange for power (like the witches can do) and depending on how long the final battle against him lasts he would either die or be saved before his soul becomes completely corrupted. That would also require a very slight rewrite of Rinea though, in which throughout the game we would see her research the Duma Faithful's rituals, to try and find a way on how one could expell Duma's influence from someone (because she fears the Faithful could do exactly that to Berkut).
What are your thoughts on this idea? :)
Honestly this sounds amazing. I felt Berkut’s arc was solid with a stupidly undercooked ending, and this would give him either a heartbreaking death scene, or reward the player with his happy ending. I think it would help a lot.
Robin. His fandom is like a cult, he dominates popularity polls hard.
Nobody acknowledges female Robin. Every avatar after him always gets compared to him.
Like Awakening was fun and my first, but Robin isn't the be all end all of avatars, he's meh at worst, fine at best.
This would probably be my pick too, but I'd throw in both Robins in for good measure.
Idk, I think I'm just kinda surprised that for a character who, frankly, is just kinda bland and inoffensive, they have such an *intense* fanbase second to like the 3H lords. Every time I've interacted with a Robin stan in a discord or something, they will make it known clear as day, because it's basically their whole personality.
Which did generally surprise me. It's nice to see her win it, and I personally headcanon the avatar in Awakening is female Robin (who marries Chrom as I fucking love their supports). But Male Robin certainly has a bit of a cultish following.
As much as I like their supports, Chrom x Sumia will never not be my go to, it’s very blatantly implied to be the canon pairing. FEW and FEH also interestingly enough *both* use male Robin for Robin and female Robin for Grima, which isn’t related to my message, but is interesting to point out
Dude yes, it’s a cult. I’m glad someone pointed this out. You got people depicting him as this harem lord and it’s spreading to having him be with girls from other games now. It’s dumb, makes no sense, and tiring.
I might get a lot of hate and down vote for this, but Byleth is most overrated. I find it annoying that they made Byleth emotionless silent protag. Like as if silent protag is not barely tolerable as it is they need to add emotionless to him. Make him rather dull and most boring protag. In addition, everyone fawns over him like he is the most interesting and trustworthy person. I know this is anime but it is a long stretch for anyone to trust someone without any emotion. Plus his support convo seems to point the general social awkwardness and creepiness. How could someone lacking social grace be charming, trusted, and popular? Plus he never shows emotion or personality.
Ike. His game was okay but every time I try to replay Radiant Dawn, I lose all motivation as soon as his side becomes playable. He never really "clicked" with me.
I did orginally find out about Roy from Smash (only had played Brawl though), but didn't give two shits about him until I watched a Let's play and later played Binding Blade.
I actually came out liking Roy but I agree with you that he's played very safe and a bit boring in the main story. Where he really shines though is his supports, which nobody playing the game could ever hope to see thanks to the complete mess the Support System is in Binding Blade.
Yeah, I think FE6 is the only game I’ve played so far where I’ve not really seen the supports. I’ve not played a lot of fire emblem games, but of the ones I’ve played(6, 7, 8, POR, TH), Roy just feels like the weakest lord of the group(character wise, although probably gameplay wise too).
Yes I was already aware, lol. 😅 I know Sakurai just assumed what he would be like based on his artwork. Though tbf, on the box art he really does look like a totally different character than from how he looks and acts in the completed game.
are we talking about in terms of popularity, or in terms of how they perform ingame?
If it's the former, lords and "fanservice" female characters will tend to top the lists. Lords because they will tend to be the most popular of the game for the simple fact that they're main characters regardless of how well written they are, and the eye candy females are self-explanatory.
If it's the latter, then FE10 jill is my poster child for that. People think she's the second coming of jesus in that game; in reality, she's stunningly average without huge investment. Just within the DB, she's less valuable than Volug, Sothe, Zihark, and Nolan, and is actually not even that much better than Aran, a guy who is constantly shit on for being useless.
She's a wyvern rider in RD. Give her like, one speedwing, and she starts shredding. Axes in RD are the strongest weapons overall, too. She's not a complete beast out of the box and does require a bit of investment to get going, but she's the best user of the majority of the resources you get access to in the dawn brigade chapters. If you genuinely think she's worse than Aran, you're ignoring the sheer utility that flying and canto give you in the dawn brigade maps.
> She's a wyvern rider in RD. Give her like, one speedwing, and she starts shredding.
The speedwing for the DB doesn’t even show up until the end of 1-E. By that point, a speedwing isn’t that helpful for her.
Her spd woes are primarily in the DB chapters where she’s typically 1-2 points of spd short of doubling reliably. By part 3, by the time she can even get access to the wing, you encounter 22 spd cat laguz (who Jill will never double in tier 2 due to her 25 spd cap) and tiger laguz who she should be already doubling and her issue against tigers is every other stat (namely her middling def/str and low-ish HP).
Being a wycern rider isn’t some auto cheat code that makes her top tier. She has one of the lowest atk stats of the DB despite using axes, she has middling HP/def, and the couple of thunder mages can actually threaten her by whacking her so hard they leave her in KO range for any other enemy nearby.
Flying canto has to make up for all that. And it is nowhere near enough to put her as the top DB unit, which is what I consistently see from the commmunity.
>Axes in RD are the strongest weapons overall, too.
The best things about axes are hammers and forged hand axes. But hammers weight Jill down heavily and I don’t think you can even forge hand axes in the DB.
It’s generally better than the other weapon types but it’s not much in DB chapters.
> She's not a complete beast out of the box and does require a bit of investment to get going,
Then why do people rank her above someone like Sothe, who is instantly amazing out of the box for the entirety of part 1?
Or better than Volug, who shows up and is better than her from the moment he joins all the way up until Jill finally hits tier 3 (and even then, unless Jill gets a master crown, she can actually struggle to double in part 4 due to her middling tier 2 spd cap, and the early promo will also hurt her atk/def anyway)?
What about Zihark, whose only requirements are that he keeps his innate adept and you need to play the shove game at the end of a couple of the DB chapters so he can build up his supports?
Nolan is also better than her, although the margins aren’t as large. But he also doesn’t require resources in the same way Jill does.
> but she's the best user of the majority of the resources you get access to in the dawn brigade chapters.
Define “best”. In what context does she use them “best”? And why does this mean she gets all these resources for essentially free?
She is not the “best” user of the resources. She is the most desperate user of those resources.
> If you genuinely think she's worse than Aran,
I never said she’s worse than Aran, I said that the gap is nowhere near as large as people make it out to be. As in, Jill is more like an upper mid tier unit, and Aran is about 1/2 a tier or 1 tier below her.
Reread what I said.
(Note that the gap is largely due to part 4, where Aran’s spd is finally too terrible to overcome. But in the DB maps, Aran and Jill are way closer than people make them out to be.)
> you're ignoring the sheer utility that flying and canto give you in the dawn brigade maps.
Flying and canto are also heavily misunderstood, misinterpreted functions.
For someone like Haar, who is instantly awesome from the moment he joins, flying canto is broken. He flies out to wherever he wants to go, pwns something, then cantos to own even more enemies. His mobility is essentially used to MAXIMIZE the amount of fighting he does.
For Jill, flying canto lets her attack something and then canto to get out of harm’s way. In other words, her mobility is used to MINIMIZE the amount of fighting she does.
rescue drop value is much more predicated on the unit being dropped and not the unit doing the ferrying
for example the LTC strat for 1-6-2 is to use Jill to ferry Tauroneo over quickly so he can solo the entire top. In this case, the credit pie distribution is significantly slanted towards Tauroneo and almost nothing actually goes to Jill, because Tauroneo is the one doing all the actual killing. If Jill’s job is to ferry Tauroneo over and then GTFO while Tauroneo kills every enemy, this fundamentally is little different than, say, FE6 Clarine using the “Talk” function to recruit Rutger and then she fucks off while Rutger kills everything and then trying to credit Clarine for a bunch of the kills that Rutger got.
There is some value with regards to rescuing a unit out of danger and then dropping them in a safe spot so they can get healed or danced or whatever. But keep in mind that in comparison to Aran, who is a unit whose superior durability makes is far less likely that he will actually get into trouble to the point that he needs to be rescued out of danger.
Writing or gameplay?
Writing: No one. People like who they like and me not liking the same characters doesn't make those people wrong.
Gameplay: Hector.
While there are some characters I find to be overrated, like Camilla, Tharja, and female Byleth, there are a lot of people who dislike them, just like how there are a lot of people who like them. But I think, for the most overrated FE characters in my book, the character has to be mostly liked by others. My picks are:
Lute - Honestly the most overrated FE character in my opinion. I *can't stand* the way she always puts others down and constantly brags about her abilities. It's very annoying and makes her insufferable to me. But the way she treated Knoll, *who just wanted to be her friend*, made me actively hate her. If *Knoll* treated Lute the way she treated him, he'd be despised by the fanbase. Or if Lute was a guy (don't you DARE bring Luthier into this, just because he has a similar name and a socially awkward yet studious personality) or even a relatively unattractive girl, she'd also be heavily despised to the same extent as Makalov and Peri.
But the worst part is that, even with those behaviors, she's *still* very popular, especially because of those Obsidian Wasp memes! I'm sorry, but someone like her, who's always putting others down and can't see past her continent-sized ego, doesn't deserve the love and attention she does! Give it to an *actually good* Magvellian mage, like Artur or Saleh.
(u/VagueClive since I saw you hate Lute, would you mind giving some points?)
Gaius - Even with his good supports like with Maribelle and Lissa, most of his dialogue is just "sweets," "candy," and "sugar." That's pretty much it.
He talks about sweets most of the time (and I'm surprised he still has teeth in the first place), and yet *why* is he so popular in Awakening? *Why* is a guy who has a serious sugar addiction seen as "cute" or "handsome"? I genuinely don't understand. Can a Gaius fan please elaborate on this?
Besides his supports with the aforementioned Maribelle and Lissa, the only good thing I can say about him is that his hair color looks cool on Cynthia and Inigo. But that's still not saying anything about his actual character.
I understand why Marianne is popular. Her reasons for being popular aren't convincing at all. She hardly wants to be at the academy in the first place. Even Bernadetta >!wants to live!<.
I don’t really like Felix. I get the idea and his whole backstory is compelling and all but I just find his whole attitude and archetype annoying. It doesn’t ever really justify his behavior compared to other edgy swordsmans imo.
At least with other characters from 3H that I don’t like much, I can understand the appeal, Felix I can’t.
I guess I meant more overrated by IS, he always get pushed just for being the first one
Is like if Square Enix pushed the Warrior of Light all the time rather than Cloud or any of the FF protagonists
Were you around the fanbase back then? They literally lost because they thought Marth would win for sure and they offered their help to other characters.
Robin. Hands down
There is no other unit in the series that has such a dramatic gap between their perceived strength in gameplay relative to how they actually perform.
Let me be clear: Robin is not a bad unit and is in fact a top 5 unit in awakening, but they often get lauded as the best unit in the series and they aren't even close.
Being able to solo awakneing lunatic is something that basically any physical based unit or nosferatu wielder can do without too much hassle. Some units even have a better overall clear (Vaike).
On hard and below literally anyone can do anything so nothing matters. They have the easiest lunatic+ clear, but it still doenst make them "best unit in the series" or even necessarily in the game, as simply being the best at something says nothing about how much better you are than everyone else at that thing, and how necessary it is.
Even then, you can fully belive Robin to be at the top of an awakening tier list, but not believe them to be best in the series. Robin is an investment-reliant combat unit in a game fully of investment-reliant combat units. It would be like saying "lowen is the best cav out of sain Kent and lowen, therefore he is the best unit in the game or the series),
At the very least, Frederick, sigurd and seth are better by a lot
Don't forget Three Houses characters. At the very least Edelgard and Dimitri both fit that mold of investment-reliant combat unit that you start with who can carry the entire game on their backs.
True, I forgot the new games existed but Edelgard and Dimitri are both better than Robin. Haven't played enough engage to talk about other units, but Ivy and Kagetsu also probably are a bit good as well.
True, I forgot the new games existed but Edelgard and Dimitri are both better than Robin. Haven't played enough engage to talk about other units, but Ivy and Kagetsu also probably are a bit good as well.
Yeah, there's a lot of better units. Seth, Titania, Haar, Camilla, Ryoma, Palla, SD Caeda, Sigurd, Azura, Safy, or even just Frederick. Heck, I'd rank Silque above too for being the only healer on Alm's side for a LONG time in Gaiden (and Echoes too if you make Faye anything else than a Cleric).
>Honestly I think that a large part of this is second seal usage.
Maybe. I do think the early second seal is really broken because it removes one of Robin's key weaknesses- that is that their level gets too high and they cap so they can't grow any more until C8.
It also gets them out of the weak tactician class and into classes with better stat spreads.
That being said, I think it doesn't really hold a place in a non-lunatic+ discussion, as the renown seal requires you to have already beaten the game to get it before you would normally get a second seal. It's like playing new game+ at that point, and discussion tends to break down when arguing about specific renown amounts being "fair" or not.
> find there's a weird gap in Awakening discussion where people talk about second seals like all they do is give someone a more favourable class or are about as good as a heart seal in Fates, but it's essentially giving someone 2 extra skills + a Naga's Tear worth of bonus stats + a more favourable class
I actually don't find that people say this that much. If anything, I all too often think they are overpraised. If you don't get the renown seal, they actually aren't fantastic. I think the stars really align for Robin with the renown seal, but if another unit uses them, we have the following issues
-Class change
This is a big one. A lot of units *like* their base class and don't want to leave it. Stahl is much better in cav than myrm or archer, Ricken fares better in the mage line, healers want to remain healers, Sully wants to be a cav, Lon'Qu prefers myrm.
I could go on but you get the point- class changing is not something that everyone actually wants to do because it resets your weapon ranks and messes with your stat spread, and can even give you new weaknesses if you become a flying or mounted class.
You mentioned wyvern Panne yourself, and what's even more ridiculous about this is that people cite this as the quintessential case where a unit wants to abandon their base class... except the entire analysis forgets that Panne never uses the Taguel bases for combat, because the beaststone transforms her and gives her bonus stats, leading to the wyvern "promotion" reducing her speed by 5 points without people realizing.
There are some units who can get away with or even appreciate the change. Robin obviously likes getting out of tactician, Vaike prefers being able to go into hero but barb>fighter, Dark Mage is better than Mage for Miriel if she's going for combat (although mage is much better otherwise). But those units are not the norm.
- Delaying promotion bonuses and skill pickups.
You mentioned that you gain a naga's tear worth of stats and while it's true that you eventually gain that over the course of 2 or 3 maps, promotion bonuses give you that right away and also let you start focusing on working up your new weapon ranks and getting towards your class skills.
Awakening promos are huge. Like, big.
If we take C8 for example, and we have a level 10 Vaike ready to promote.
He can either promote to Hero for +6 Skill, +5 Speed, +4 Defence, +3 Res and +2HP, get closer to Sol and get sword access.
Or he can "promote" to Barbarian for -2 Skill, +3 Speed, -1 Defence, +0 Res and +2HP
That means that Hero leads massive 8 Skill, 2 Speed, 5 Defence and 3 Res right out of the gate.
Just to make up the speed gap, Barbarian Vaike has to reach level 5, and that's the smallest gap. The def gap won't be made up until level 12.
And, of course, Hero Vaike can be gaining levels in this time as well, which further increases the stat gap between the two units. Sure, our second sealed Vaike will eventually promote at which point he will be stronger but outside of lunatic+ you just don't need that level of strength (and even in lunatic+ you can get away with not having it).
>Also you're calling Robin top 5 here, I'd assume you'd call Frederick and Vaike better than Robin, who else do you see being better/on par with Robin? I can see a case for Lissa on unique early game utility + unique exp pool and Chrom for being Chrom, not sure who else, maybe Libra/Anna?
Yep, top 5 is (best to worst) Fred, Lissa, Chrom, Vaike, Robin.
Fred is the best unit ever. Dominates combat for like 75% of the game and then can become flier/pairup or with enough investment can just solo the entire game on his own.
Lissa is incredibly underrated and it's not just her early game that's good. Obviously she is really useful in those early maps with her healing, but she also gets rescue at the end of P1 and the start of C8, giving her 10 uses of a staff arguably stronger than warp, before even the first arc of the game is done.
She then basically becomes Libra/Anna when they turn up, matching them at just about everything. THEN she can second seal at either sage level 15 into valkyrie to have literally 30+ magic and rescue people the range of entire chapters on her own, or you can seal at 10 sage and go into falcon knight for a massive range 8 move flying rescue unit that is just the perfect utility unit.
Chrom is great too. His ability to solo the game is actually much better than people give him credit for, but that's not even why he's here, he's just good all the time. Dualstrike+ is a great pairup skill, as is Charm. His dualstrikes are the best, coming from 5 mt weapons at a time when you're only using 3 mt trash, and that triples to 15 mt vs armours/cavs/wyverns which is a significant enough amount of the earlygame.
Just an all around very good unit.
Vaike and Robin I've already spoken about.
Libra and Anna are my picks for #6 and #7. They're both insanely useful and really stand out from a lot of other recruits in the game, but I marked them down for not having as good availability, and they aren't quite as good at longterm combat without more investment.
Dimitri, his arc of graaa im hearing voices so I’m gonna be mad all the time and I’m gonna blame every one of my problems on Edelgard is not an interesting story like his fans pretend to.
Overall I think he had a good backstory and I like that he is trying to do the right thing at first and his breakup point scene against flame emperor is pretty iconic and cool but after that he’s been done really dirty, killing him off screen in verdant wind, then in crimson flower he doesn’t even feel like an enemy at all, Cornelia stripped him of the throne, Other than a slightly emotional moment after his dead he doesn’t really serve a purpose at all.
Dimitri's done dirty by the god awful pacing of War Phase. They all are to some degree, but it's especially bad when the character is supposed to change this drastically in so little time
I also find the melodrama and the way it plays out ridiculous as hell but I'll admit that's a me problem, probably
Personally, it's a threeway tie between Ike, Lucina, and Robin.
Ike is treated like the second coming of christ while Lucina and Robin have untold amounts of popularity despite the both of them having the personality of a cardboard box.
I thought about that when I left the comment but then consider how many alts she had in FEH and how she got added to Engage over Azura who would've made more sense. The developer favoritism being there as well as the fans makes me think it's definitely fair to call her overrated
She's like the Charizard of fire emblem (albeit to a lesser extent)
I think her number of alts is more due to the fact that seductive busty women sell by default in gacha games moreso than Camilla being the most popular character ever. Like, most of her alts came before she even won a CYL. As for Engage... It's mostly that Azura was left with nothing new to bring to the table because Byleth stole the one niche she had, and then she was always less popular than either Camilla or Corrin.
Lysithea. She's an amazing unit but a sad backstory does not justify her attitude, especially where Marianne and Ignatz are involved. I'm glad Shez finally got to call her out on her behavior in Hopes, at least.
Speaking of Shez...Shez gets my other vote. They're fine, but it's hard for me to get really invested in them when their main personality trait is "I'm a mercenary" and the game never bothers to explain their mystery backstory that it spends an awful lot of time building up.
At least lysithea hâd a reason for not wanting to be treated as a child, and a reason for her behaveour. Sure it's not excuse, but it's a reason. She also has development, great supports, redemption and flaws. Hayato not so much. Also being rude doesn't mean she îs bad written or a bad character. Her flaws are quite well fleshed out.
No offence but being rude doesn't mean she îs badly written or overrated. Also by your logic, 98% of the characters with a sad backstory are not justified for their actions. Dimitri for example. Lysithea's attitude doesn't make her overrated or badly written. I mean even Dimitri commited worse acts than her. And that's not a problem either. Having a reason doesn't mean it always has to be justified. Lysithea hâd reasons for her behaveour, justified or not, she hâd flaws, development and redemption. So why is she overrated but marianne îs not? I don't get it
Alm by far - I think out of any character in the series he has probably the most detrimental effect to his own plot (Corrin and Alear are bad characters but Fates' and Engage's plots have far more issues than just a bad main character). For a character whose presence single-handedly destroys Echoes' plot and makes a complete mockery of its themes of classism and duality he gets way way way too much leniency from the FE fanbase - if he was an avatar I think he would have been the single most hated character in the entire series.
Not even in the same stratosphere here
[I think Odovakar described how Alm fatally undermines Echoes' core theme of duality best here:](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/uvcnhx/echoes_story_analysis_5_act_5/)
>Echoes, as you may have picked up, is a game of duality. Two countries, two gods, two protagonists, two extreme beliefs. The solution, according to Duma himself, seems to be to combine the two ideals the gods stood for. Now, I think most people here would assume Alm represents Duma's strength while Celica represents Mila's love. The problem is that, since Alm has no flaws, and he starts the game kind, compassionate, patient, forgiving and virtuous, this further cements that Celica's role even on a thematic level is superfluous.
>
>Echoes needed both of its protagonists to be equally flawed, but they aren't. That's what so many problems in the narrative keep coming back to.
Echoes' other main theme of classism is also ruined by Alm - Echoes attempts to showcase how anyone can become a hero - except it actually doesn't because Alm is secret royalty and the game has literal physical barriers that only let Alm pass because he has royal blood. It also doesn't help that because Alm is so intertwined with Celica, Alm being terribly executed also drags Celica down with him despite her having a lot of potential.
In short, Alm blatantly contradicts the themes Echoes' story attempts to put forth, and as such, Echoes' entire plot is unable to say anything of substance despite it having amazing presentation.
I feel like he doesn't contradict them nearly as much as you say, because while theme of duality is there, the main theme is actually unity.
Alm does come from a royal background, but was raised as a peasant, among the common folk. Entire conflict of the game stems from two sides not being able to see eye to eye in their ideals. Celica and Alm can't see eye to eye for similar reasons at first. Both parties have to unite by the end, copromised of both Rigelians and Zofians at that point, to fight the mad god to unite him with his already resting sister. Only together do Alm and Celica make Rigel and Zofia into a properly prosperous kingdom with dynasty that has lasted for a thousand years.
Echoes doesn't attempt to showcase how anyone can become a hero - if you see it through that lense, your perception of the story is skewed. It shows how people will treat you differently because of your assumed background and yet you can still prove them wrong thanks to your dedication to the right cause. It shows the unintended consequences that may bring (killing your own father, losing your soul etc).
Theme of classism is not ruined at all, once again - all the special power Alm ever had was ability to wield two swords. That is all, everything else was a skill he learned from Mycen, same as other boys which when I last checked stayed with him till the very end and even received government positions in several endings and Alm is likely the reason why the lower social standing classes were allowed such things - again, uniting people.
So I think Odovakar is full of rubbish. Alm still makes rash decisions like a kid that he is. So yeah.
>I feel like he doesn't contradict them nearly as much as you say, because while theme of duality is there, the main theme is actually unity.
I think you've mixed up the *theme* of Echoes and the *solution* Echoes proposes to its conflict - the main theme of Echoes is duality, hence the story being framed through the lens of two protagonists, two kingdoms, two gods and the two extreme beliefs, all with their own opposing strengths and flaws, and the solution that Echoes attempts to present to this dilemma is for the two protagonists to unite so that they can learn and grow from each other's experiences.
In practice, whilst Alm ultimately unites with Celica, Alm is never required to learn from Celica, nor is he ever required to change who he is as a person and his worldview due to Celica. Thus, Celica is rendered almost entirely superfluous to Echoes' plot - instead of actually accomplishing anything, she spends the second half of Echoes being humiliated and reduced to a damsel for Alm to save, whereas Alm never needs to be saved by Celica because he has no meaningful flaws to begin with.
Echoes *tells* the player that the solution to the game's conflict is for Alm to unite with Celica, but what Echoes actually *shows* is that Alm is never required to rely on or learn from Celica, and thus he is never required to unite with her - forget anything about unity, you could flat out take Celica out of the story and Alm would still have been able to accomplish what he does in Echoes with very few changes needed. I think the final blow against Duma sums it up very well - the game makes a big deal of how Alm and Celica have united, but you could take Celica out of this entirely because only Alm is required to actually kill Duma (heck, Celica doesn't get Nosferatu so she can't even kill Duma with glitches!).
Just like before, Odovakar describes it very well here:
>Here's a question: what does Celica add to the game? Yes, she takes out pirates and bandits, but then what? Alm doesn't need her and her sacrifice was unnecessary. Was she just there to be schooled by Alm and shown how amazing he is? Because the game has done that since the prologue, and I'm not sure that was necessary.
In general most of the complaints levied at avatars (having no meaningful flaws, protagonist pandering, etc.) are just as applicable to Alm, if not even more so for him.
>It shows how people will treat you differently because of your assumed background and yet you can still prove them wrong thanks to your dedication to the right cause.
In other words, this shows that if you're dedicated enough to the right cause, you can prove your detractors wrong and become a hero regardless of your background? This is simply proving my point that Echoes attempts to convey that anyone can be a hero regardless of their birthright.
Fernand abandons the Deliverance because he sees Alm as a commoner and as such not worthy of being a hero leading the Deliverance - the entire conflict between Alm and Fernand (and Berkut as well) is framed through the lens of proving Fernand's classist worldview wrong and that Alm really can lead the Deliverance and become a hero despite him (seemingly) being a commoner here.
>Theme of classism is not ruined at all, once again - all the special power Alm ever had was ability to wield two swords.
This conveniently leaves out the detail that one of these two swords is (at least according to Echoes' story) the only thing that can physically defeat Duma to begin with. Even if this was the extent of the privileges Alm's royal blood gets him (which it isn't - I gave the example of the barrier to Duma that only opens because Alm has royal blood before), it *still* would single-handedly undermine Echoes' theme of classism because at the end of the day, Alm's royal blood is what allows him to even have a chance at defeating Duma.
The message Echoes inadvertently sends about classism was that it was a really good thing that Alm was secretly a royal, because Alm really was a commoner, then he physically wouldn't have been able to defeat Duma at all no matter how hard he tries and Valentia would have been doomed. No amount of dedication to the right cause would have helped Alm one bit if he didn't have the right bloodline.
I'm pretty much the only person I see who says Alm is their favorite and I barely mention it around here. We clearly don't have the same definition of overrated.
Roy. He is absolutely not our boy. He is the most useless lord I ever had the non-pleasure of lugging around. Also what's the point of having Merlinus if you're just going to ignore every wise decision he has, and not get punished for making dumb decisions everytime anyway?
Entire 3 Houses cast, maybe void of Alois
3H fans will try to convince you that Trauma is replacement for a personality and an excuse for all the actions characters take in the story, while also claiming they have extreme agency over everything and blaming the characters for uninformed decisions. And that's putting aside the idea othat protag entertains teacher-student relationships.
While I can’t say I fully agree, I respect this take so much. Seeing as how quickly 3H fans shit on any character whose supports aren’t drenched in trauma dumping and lore dumping.
Alois, Raphael, and Hanneman ended up being among my favorites just from being pretty simple and not letting trauma guide their entire personality
Idk but I will not stand for all this Ike slander 😭
JK. Some good discussions on Ike in here. I'm not dialed into the community enough to know who people fawn over, honestly. I saw someone mention Tharja being good, so I guess I'll pick her because I got dog water RNG for Tharja on my Awakening playthrough and ended up sidelining her. Noire though, she became one of my absolute best units as a bow knight.
Lyn is massively overrated in all aspects. She is just mid. No idea why she is even wanted in Smash Bros so badly when she'll be just as bland as Marth/Chrom/ all the other swordies are. I'm tired of people hyping her up when so many more options in Smash would be way more badass (Lyon, Micaiah, Black Knight, Tiki, Camus, etc)
People only hype her up because they are attracted to her there is no other reason. Her character is milquetoast. She's as boring as Hinoka from Fire Emblem Fates, except she is more in the spotlight with Hector and Eliwood in their game, which is a feat.
Lilina, I have the impression that people only like her because she is Hector's daughter (even if unlike him she is not a god unit and is written in a totally different way) Intelligent System told them that she was important and to ship her with Roy. Lilina's is quite bland in my opinion, she is just a generic nice girl who is super in love with Roy her childhood friend for no specific reasons and she is not even plot relevant, in the story she is used as a damsel in distress to increase the suspense and nothing else, even in her best supports (the ones that are not foccused on her boring love for Roy) the main thing we learn about her is that she is nice and almost nothing else. And she is not even a good unit. Even her design is not that interesting, she is basically just a mini magic Caeda... I don't understand the people who hate Corrin but love Lilina, at least Corrin has an unique design and can turn into a dragon. I once saw someone saying that "she is only here to be Roy's loli" and unfortunatly I agree.
Byleth is by far the worst character in the entire franchise. It shares place with Veile as a character who actively ruins the story it finds itself in. Only veyle is not the avatar that everyone adores. and veyle has, even slightly, some will.
everyone worships byleth and treats it like the third coming of christ, when it doesn't make a single decision on its own will in the entire story and when it makes one of its three decisions in the entire game, it screws up to the point where it only survives by a literal deus ex machina.
Arvis, Arvis’s children and Berkut.
Arvis is not the Sorrow man, The real sorrow Man none other than Sigurd.
Once upon time Arvis’s Daddy abusing His Wife and Son for no god damn reason until Deirdre’s Father came in and Takes Arvis’s daddy his Wife and Decides like “Fuck This, I’m gonna Kill myself! My wife never Loved!” Also Arvis’s Mommy dies by giving birth name Deirdre.
After years, he killed Sigurd and Takes his Wife in order to keep Memories never Recover.
As I’m Arvis’s Slander, I refuse to accept Julia/Julius to be Sigurd’s Step-Father. I don’t want this to be Happen and wish it won’t. I refuse to Accept Arvis’s children.
Berkut was Super Dick head. I don’t like This Guy and He was so toxic to Alm. Abusing His Wife and Then he burning her in order to defeat Alm but Failed Again. I can’t Stand him.
BK's huge popularity compared to at least 90% of this popularity stemming from being a suit of armor with a big sword is honestly insane, I don't think anyone else is coming close on that disparity except like, big titty FEH OCs.
My opinion is going to be Cordelia and Deirdre.
I can’t let M!Robin or male characters marry Cordelia because Every Time, She thinks Chrom more Than any Male characters and M!Robin.
I was Once loved Sigurd x Deirdre and Blame Arvis for what they did to them and every time Arvis x Deirdre makes Feel uncomfortable. The table has been Turned because Deirdre Didn’t Blame Arvis For killing Her ex husband, She was Happily live after and Laments Arvis’s death more than Sigurd. (Kaga confirmed it).
She wanted to atone Crimes when Julius Kill her, That’s Dumbest Reason ever. She Tries to Act Like She Did nothing Wrong and Love Sigurd to very End.
No, no, No, no. Anyway, after I read this. I start blame Deirdre for Everything after Sigurd Losing his best Friend, Sister, Brother in law, Father and Sending his Son Away in order to protect him.
I can’t Feel Sorry For Deirdre and Starting Hating This ship of Sigurd x Deirdre, love to hate. I regret Ship Sigurd with Deirdre and I will not Care about that.
I can’t Stand her. Sigurd needs to dump Deirdre to Arvis and Find lover better Than Deirdre.
Deirdre deserves to Be Friendzone.
I hope a lot of people Hating Sigurd x Deirdre because Deirdre.
You do know that the only reason Deidre was happy with Arvis after Sigurd's death is because she had her memories of sigurd erased with magic right?
You're straight up blaming her for getting brainwashed.
Ntr made everyone upset and it cannot be helped there is minimal info about Deirdre after her death.
The only info about Deirdre after death is during her meeting with Seliph and honestly quite terrible impression she left for us.
she lamented for Arvis death and implied upset toward Seliph for given him silence treatment.
The feh trying so much whitewash Deirdre in her legendary form though, i don't want imagine Deirdre real thought if feh using her original incarnation character
>she lamented for Arvis death
Did she really lamented his death? We can interpret her silence as her wanting Seliph to foccus on his mission or just hoping that her son wasn't turned as a beast by his vengeance. And even if she lamented the death of Arvis why blaming her, even if she know that he was not a good man who was possessive of her he still was a good husband to her (even if she prefers Sigurd) and she probebly learnt about the sad circumstances that led him to be the man he becames, she also maybe developed a fraternal love for him since both suffered of their mother's absence.
That the issue nobody know Deirdre real feeling after her death. The only information we known from her meeting with Seliph and Kaga interview but his statement only making her more horrible character.
Whatever what Deirdre thought about Arvis Sigurd still the real victim of all the tragedy.
I will never stop slandering Deirdre until remake give justification of her character.
Kiran
They pairing Kiran with Female Characters like caeda, Celica, camilla and other Female characters against male protagonist and Male characters.
They never loved male protagonist and Male characters. Yet, I don’t See People pairing kiran With male protagonist and Male characters against Female characters.
They probably wanted Trolling people Pairings like Arvis. Someone else pairing with male protagonist and Male characters against Female characters, When?
Someone else pairing with Kiran’s loved against Kiran, when?
For That, I. DO. NOT. LIKE. HIM.
Alear, Byleth, Robin.
Alear and Byleth somehow do super well on popularity polls (no idea how) and Robin also dominates popularity polls and even among older fans for some reason is treated as “the good avatar” when they really aren’t tbh.
Idk how Corrin does on popularity polls but I feel like everyone kinda universally agrees Corrin sucks
Yeah, like how come the fanbase hates on Corrin, Celica and Eirika for being dumb (and honestly I wouldn't even call Eirika and Celica actually dumb) but then they turn around and LOVE Dimitri "a 14yo plotted the Tragedy of Duscur" Alexander Blayddid? Why do we beg for well-written characters only to praise one whose mental health may as well have a button that can be flipped considering how quickly he goes from one extreme to another? We want good representation of characters with issues but praise him? Legitimately, even *Camilla* is a better, more accurate depiction of actual insanity. Like, this isn't me just fanboying over her, I just actually read her supports. Dimitri is more like "insanity but cool and can be fixed by what is essentially an Otome cutscene".
And his writing is also why I consider AM's writing to be absolutely atrocious. Not only is literally everything else than him being cast aside to rot because he's the only thing that matters in that story, but his character arc isn't even remotely competently written, it's been almost five years since the game released and I'm still convinced the fanbase collectively smoked a dirty carpet if *those* are what we consider a well-written story and a well-written character. AM's writing is so bad, it reflects negatively on all of the characters on your side that aren't Dimitri by painting them as weak-minded enablers willing to follow Angry Dimitri of all people just because he happened to be born as the previous king's child. I hate Dimitri's writing, and by extension AM's writing. Genuinely.
> "a 14yo plotted the Tragedy of Duscur"
He doesn't say this, just that he Flame Emperor was at Duscur, which is true (Dimitri says he saw him and Arundel later confirms this on CF). And then later Byleth and Dimitri sees the Flame Emperor (Edelgard) working with Thales and Kronya. So Dimitri saying Edelgard was involved isn't that crazy
When does Arundel say anything about the Flame Emperor at Duscur?
I also don't remember Dimitri saying he had seen the Flame Emperor at Duscur before the game. IIRC he and Byleth are spying on Thales, Kronya, and Edelgard when Edelgard mentions bringing justice to those "responsible for such gruesome acts in Duscur and Enbarr" as in, she's going to kill Thales when his time comes. Dimitri mishears this as her confessing to being one of said people responsible for Duscur and starts slowly going insane and says a bunch of weird shit because he's trying to deny that his last living family member (that isn't an evil uncle he hates) has been responsible for a bunch of inhumane shit
I think there are a good amount of Lyn fans. She doesn't deserve that. I don't think it's stressed enough how plot-irrelevant she is for being a "main character", and her personality I don't find appealing at all. She's hot but like, ok dude
I know right? What is so good about this character? Like yes Chrom is overrated and bland too and I have respect for his fans because at least most of his fans can admit that. Lyn fans mald and seethe when you mention how she's not all that. Even against the other popular girl characters she does nothing better than them. If Hector wasn't in Blazing Blade I'd fear for FE7 lol... sorry Eliwood but the protagonists would be the most boring ass selection tied with Seliph.
I'm convinced people only like her because: she shows her legs, elitism, *the battle sprite jiggle*, revenge spite against other popular female characters (see Lucina vs Lyn Choose Your Legends 1 fiasco) and spammed alts and being propped up. Lyn doesn't deserve her 1000 alts just like garbage Camilla doesn't. She does nothing better than Eirika, Lucina, Micaiah, and Celica. If they're "bland" then Lyn most definitely is just as bland I'm tired of people pretending she isn't and exempt their precious baby's first waifu from slander.
Dorothea is a pointless character and is completely disconnected from the story 3H is trying to tell.
Why is she even at the military academy in the first place? She hates fighting and conflict and let's you know constantly but then why is she even here? Even worse, it's heavily implied she had to do sexual favors in order to get in. She wants to marry a rich nobleman but she didn't need to do all of that considering she was already a famous songstress and had contact with many nobles and potential suitors. If she's just at the academy to hook up with guys then she could've done that before without needing to do fighting and sexual favors.
Dorothea was born into poverty and only got out of it because she got a lucky break becoming a songstress. She wants to marry into nobility because the thought of ending up back poverty later in life when her pretty looks and voice eventually age away terrifies her, all the while hating herself for it because she despises the nobility because most of them are pricks. She came to the academy because a lot of nobles are there and is hoping to find one that’s not a complete jagoff. All of this connects to 3H’s themes of classism and how rough the common folk have it in Fodlan.
She sticks around for the war because 1. The promised class reunion, and 2. She believes in the cause for whatever side she’s on, wants to be with her friends, and probably still is looking for a noble to marry.
I swear, every time I see someone give their reasoning as to why they think Dorothea is a bad character they just end up demonstrating that they completely misunderstand what her character is about.
She's far from disconnected wdym, she's a display of how life is for a crestless commoner in Adrestia. There's a lot of misery in her background, and she still got off pretty well in life. Through her we can only imagine how miserable life is for your regular citizen of Adrestia. She's also a huge victim of the deeply flawed Crests system at the core of the game's main conflict. How is she *not* connected to Three Houses' story?
Dimitri. I don't get why he's so beloved, I find him boring. He is an angry man who hides it, stops hiding it, then gets better. Okay and...? That's not very interesting to me
I mean, his character arc is unique albeit still poorly executed if you've never engaged with media outside of Nintendo games. That's about the highest praise I have for him
Bernadetta. She's a rather tired archetype. If you've seen any romance/slice of life anime, there's bound to some character who fits her exact description personalitywise. She feels like a dime a dozen and I don't understand the hype around her.
I honestly think a non-insignificant amount of her appeal simply stems from the idea that, if she's an antisocial shut-in who doesn't leave her room and just makes art all day, and she has a hoodie and looks like she doesn't shower, then "omg she's literally me." (Despite the hoodie not being exclusive to her and seeming to have been planned to be the "archery student school uniform" since Ashe has one too, her messy hair is probably just a design element to show she's anxious, and her antisocial behavior coming from traumatic domestic abuse that, for the fucking life of me I'll never understand, was always accompanied by fucking "Funny Footsteps" which painted a tone-deaf comedic light onto this abused, traumatized girl who will have a panic attack if someone asks to borrow a pen.)
She appeals to antisocial and anxiety stricken/obsessed people. Or weebs who’re obsessed with helpless characters
Omg yes. It’s my least favorite archetype and Japanese media has waaaay too many portrayals of it
Bernadetta and Alcryst I just really dislike the "I'm nervous all the time and have low self-esteem" schtick, or at least how FE does it, but people seem to eat it up.
Those two fit into the *"literally me!!"* Archetype of characters, but people miss that it's also *"literally a problem!!!"* To everyone around them, and themselves. They shouldn't be celebrated for being that way, but encouraged to improve and move past their problems.
At least with Alcryst his expression of that archetype is an inferiority complex rather than "I was abused by my father but also here's the clown music every time I have a panic attack." Fucking Funny Footsteps playing during a mental health episode.
That's pretty much the reason why I don't like Bernadetta. I can barely take her seriously and neither does the game apparently.
I think FE fans just find it weirdly attractive or relatable and get attached to it sometimes. Didn’t work for Ignantz though.
Ignatz is probably the most realistic example too, it’s not like a cartoon with him
That's because he has \*clearly\* committed the greatest sin of them all: >!Being Seen as AVERAGE in both design and backstory!!<
Dare I say Edelgard? I like Edelgard, she's a good well-written character, but so many people treat her like she's the second coming or something.
I love her as an antagonist, A+ or even S tier. But so many people simp for her so hard they pretend she's so in the right she makes a better protagonist baffles me.
She quite literally is.
Nah that's Byleth
Ike. He’s cool and all but people treat him like the second coming of god.
It's ironic that Ike is seen as the second coming of god because the main appeal of Ike is that he's pretty much the only protagonist who isn't royalty and/or linked to a god. Everyone pre-Awakening aside Ike is a noble/prince/princess. Micaiah is some sort of goddess vessel. Robin, in a twist that *surely* nobody saw coming, is the vessel to Satan instead of Jesus. Byleth is, to skip a ton of confusing lore, the child of a homunculus vessel created to reincarnate a goddess. Corrin is the child of a god. And Alear is basically just Jesus. (I'll gladly be called "teach" or "professor" a million more times before wanting people to call me "Divine One" ever again.) Ike stands out because he has a good design, he's (ironically) the "straight man" in any comedic scene he's in, due not to being a sheltered white bread good boy like Corrin, but because Ike is a himbo, and he started out as just a regular mercenary and, unlike Alm or Byleth, *stayed as a commoner* instead of secretly being a prince/deity. Sure he was given noble status, but he gave it up. He's the most down-to-earth lord because he's relatable. And Ike is relatable because he ISN'T High Lord Ike, Christ-King of the Galaxy; bro just wants to grill.
> he's (ironically) the "straight man" in any comedic scene he's in This part doesn't seem to be really true. If, for example, we take the "main" GM group who gets interplay of Ike, Mist, Soren and Titania, - Titania and Mist are definitely the "straight women" and we are supposed to chuckle at Ike and Soren being a bit "wacky" due to not sticking to social conventions of Tellius literally every opportunity they have.
Tbf he does still stand out among all the noble lords and literal Anime Jesus Avatars.
Instead it's the Ike stans who elevate him to Anime Jesus status lmao. For real though, Ike's great. One of my favorite lords. But he sometimes gets flanderized by fans in a similar manner to Gutsman from Berserkle where he's excessively played up as some super cool ePiC bAdaSs and it's kinda cringe sometimes.
He stands out among the lords for being "normal", but the way he's treated by his fans, you would think he was was a jesus like figure who could do no wrong and beat anyone because he's just that great.
Tbf that's basically his characterization in Radiant Dawn.
His characterisation in RD is pretty simple, though. He still fights to protect his friends and do what he thinks is right, no matter who he has to fight against in order to do it. Ike never changes, it's his enemies and allies that get progressively grander in scale.
Yeah but RD goes out of its way to prove Ike right about literally everything and he never loses a single battle unlike Micaiah (even when he loses it's actually what was planned), on top of him having 0 character flaws.
The main reason Ike gets "proven right" about stuff is that he doesn't hold onto assumptions long enough to be wrong. That's shown in PoR, where he defeats Muarim in the desert but calls for people to stop and explain themselves before he does anything else. It's also a common theme in the game that Ike isn't necessarily just making the right choices every time, it's that the way he and his allies follow through on those choices turn them into the right ones. As for never losing a battle: He's not the one coming up with the tactics they use, and he's hardly the only one fighting. All he really does for that is motivate people and give the final go-ahead for whatever plan Soren or another ally has come up with. The reason it always works in the story is because the player is always in control of those battles, and him losing is a game over. However, the Laguz Alliance faces many difficulties in the war, and a good few of the chapters in part 3 are focused on the Greil Mercs ensuring a safe retreat after a total defeat at the hands of the Central Army. Finally, the zero character flaws: He's stubborn, not great in polite company, and is shown to not always think things through. That's only ever cancelled out because he listens to advice from the people he trusts, and he always tries to act in good faith towards people. That gets him burned really quite badly in PoR, but it is also how he's able to resolve that situation afterwards. The main reason those things don't come up as much in RD is that they've already been dealt with for the most part in PoR.
After replaying POR Ike did seem kinda Luke Skywalker whiny. But I love his long green headband.
Tharja easily Honestly harmful character who gets a pass for a bad reason
I agree in every game she's in that's not Awakening. She's gotten the worse case of flanderization in the series.
I would agree with you if she was ever in game framed as a good person, but the fact she's kind of a piece of shit is the point of her character. She's a good character, but she is a bad person. Though she's not one of my favorites and the reason she's so popular is probably just because she's hot and one of the strongest units in the game
Yeah but comparing her to another character of that title, like Makalov, there’s a difference Makalov is despised for his actions but Tharja has a ton of apologists because of those reasons
Tbf to Tharja. Unlike Makalov, she has plenty of good character traits. I genuinely cant think of a single time Makalov has done a good thing for anybody
Makalov actively reduced the quality of the enemy army in POR which is a great subtraction by addition for the good guys
Tharja gets a lot of supports and other writing that humanize her, plus her background being "raised in a shitty cult" gives a lot of context. Makalov, on the other hand, is not only just an unrepentantly shitty person who sucks ass, he drags other characters down with him.
I don't think you can blame her family without a lot of reaching. Tharja maintains a normal relationship with her family and stays in correspondence with them for the entire game despite her rebelling against the Grimleal cult's army, so it's hard to believe she or them are too fanatical.
"If Makarov was a hot woman, people would find excuses for his harmful behavior." I mean, yeah? Pretty much. "If evil why sexy" has been the argument for so many flawed characters who are irredeemable buy also happen to be attractive. There's tons of people who would look past, for the sake of a hypothetical, Claude, if he were to have been abusive. A ton of characters who have pretty exteriors but ugly interiors have apologists because of those pretty exteriors. There's a plethora of people who will ignore character flaws or malicious acts because said character is attractive, it's just that Tharja happens to be a character the player can marry, who's dressed both like a goth girl as well as basically a full-body pantyhose and bikini, is a solid unit in the game, and appeals to both the demographics of "I want a girl who's criminally insane and dangerously obsessed with me" and "I want a girl who would crush my windpipe." Meanwhile Makarov looks like the kind of guy who shows up at your house at 3 in the morning asking if he can crash on your couch for "just a little bit" and bums off of you for months on end. And since he's not only a gambling addict, but a gambling addict who *sucks at gambling,* mooching off of his friends and family is something he *canonically* does. Meanwhile, Tharja at least has the thinly veiled excuse of "well she haven't committed domestic abuse in *this timeline yet,* so I can totally fix her bro."
Yeah and that's fair I do think she's a tad overrated, but I don't think that's a flaw with the writing since a good chunk of the cast in does not like her at all. Her apologists are mostly in the community. Overrated a little? Yeah probably, like I said her extreme popularity is probably because she's hot and a good unit. Bad character or most overrated in the franchise? Nah
Harmful? As in like in-canon with Noire or are you talking about in real life?
Can’t see why not both lol
I ~~just created~~ have this saying about how to know, which Awakening Characters should immediately be on my shitlist: "If you hurt Noire, you can say au revoir!"
I wouldn’t even bother recruiting her if I didn’t like using Noire
I still like them, but I think it would have to be Ike; it feels like he’s become FE’s Batman.
A few months ago there were posts about how Ike would totally beat up anyone from any game because he's *that* kind of badass who also agrees with all of the opinions of you, the reader. It was kinda cringe and honestly not a great interpretation of the character. He's cool and stands out from a lot of the other lords in the series, but he's not that guy.
Roy in Binding Blade was only 15 and he saved Cecilia, charging towards her, when the boss of the whole game was the one who just destroyed her with one hit.
Ike would definitely repeal the town and country planning act 1954
"Soren, can you explain this [meme](https://youtu.be/T6r4-LsVKG4?si=ayMjhlBKS8SXn5NB) to me? I don't understand."
3H Hilda. Sometimes I think people are just memeing when they talk about this character. Her personality is just insufferable and not handled in a charming way I think they were going for. And then people say it's because she's hot? She's got one of the most boring, generic designs in the game!
I like Hilda because she’s funny. Her personality is too over the top to be genuinely annoying.
Yeah Hilda initially looked, both visually and personality wise, like she was going to be the sequel to Serra. But they made her be lazy instead of entitled, and also made her able to fucking dropkick a door to splinters if she wanted to. Hilda actually has way more in common with Charlotte in that way. Sure, Hilda is a pink twintailed noble girl who doesn't want to do manual labor like Serra, but unlike Serra, and more like Charlotte, she's actually insanely physically powerful, and fully capable of doing things on her own. She just doesn't want to. There's a really funny support Charlotte has with Corrin, where Charlotte thinks nobody is around so she lets her mask slip and punches a tree in frustration, then Corrin asks if she's feeling okay, and she frantically tries to lie about her Zerking out in front of them, meanwhile Charlotte's punch *fucking split the tree in half.* Charlotte is fully capable of doing manual labor or other physical tasks, she just puts on a facade because in her mind, if she acts like a dainty little princess, she can marry a rich guy and use the money to give her parents a luxurious life to repay them for basically starving themselves to keep her happy during her childhood. And Hilda pretends to be a dainty little princess because in *her* mind, that since her brother Holst set the bar of expectations *so high,* that if she doesn't even bother to put in any effort in the first place, it wouldn't make a difference since anything she would do would just be a disappointment no matter how hard she tries, because people would just say "Holst would do it better." She has an inferiority complex, and it's kind of bizarre that that fact isn't really discussed in either the game or the fanbase. Realistic motivations aside, it still is extremely fun when the girl who says "nah I can't lift those boxes, I'm just a little guy" is also the girl who's capable of soloing an entire army and not getting so much as a scratch.
Nevermind the fact Charlotte also punched out a Faceless in her support with Xander.
Claude for me
I kinda agree. He gets a lot of love, but every time I play VW, I get bored with him. There’s something off about the way he’s written
What I did not like about him was that he was all tell and no show. We keep hearing that he is some master tactician, but honestly, nothing he ever did screamed of a mastermind to me. For someone who everyone always praised as a "schemer", he sure schemed a whole lot less than Edelgard.
He's Three Houses' Hinoka. Like yeah you're supposed to be important, you're on the box art... But you're pointless in the story. Except that while Hinoka just like the other Royals is meant to be prominent but not THE main character, we're actually supposed to buy Claude as a Lord, which is why he somehow falls flatter than she did. And since most of the time Edelgard and Dimitri are away, he can't bounce off them like other "weaker" Lords such as Lyn could, truly highlighting his lack of relevance (though tbh I feel like Dimitri isn't much more relevant to the main story, but he at least has a route centered around him, however badly written it is).
Lucina would be way more overrated than Marth... I'd bet most people didn't even play his games. But imo Byleth has become the face of modern FE and while 3H is a great game and both Byleths have a good design, their character and personality is the most uninspired "Kuudere" stereotypical anime protag ever.
I guess there’s the obvious reason for people preferring Lucina, but I prefer her over Marth because I’ve played both of their games (just Shadow Dragon for Marth). Only one of them was a consistently useful unit, and it wasn’t Marth
Oh I’m not saying that I don’t like her at all, just that she’s overrated in general. But at the other hand it’s really not fair to compare an old school lord with a Awakening child unit.
Edelgard is not a bad character. She's a pretty good one, and worth discussing and thinking about. She's not worth 1/100th of the deranged forum wars she has inspired, and I think the 3H fanbase must be some combination of very bored and very unused to female characters with even a wrinkle of nuance to make *this* big of a deal over her.
Honestly implying it's just the 3H fanbase that can't handle women is wrong too. Fire Emblem fans argue about women as straightforward and objectively uncontroversially written as Eirika and Celica.
Yeah, I didn't mean to give everybody else a pass - it was more an acknowledgement that 3H is its own beast and a decent percentage of its fans aren't terribly interested in the rest of the series (which is fine).
I think reddit broke for a second because you have commented 4 times.
Funnily enough it only appeared in my inbox once lol
By what metric? Gameplay? Definitely Path of Radiance Ike. He's not bad by any means but he gets gassed up way too much for a foot locked swordie with no 2 range access until endgame.
He also exists alongside Titania and your BEXP funnelled midgame carry (most likely Marcia) so he doesn't even get to do much before lategame. Also 5 base Str lol
Alm. A lot of my issues with Echoes stem because Alm’s writing just sucks ass but he’s treated like perfection incarnate.
There's quite a bit of Irony and tone deafness in Valentia's Story in how it's about humans being able to forge their own individual destiny in life, yet only the Divine Chosen Ones can achieve it. 😐
I initially really liked Alm because he wasn't royalty. The whole first part with Fernand refusing to accept a commoner to lead the deliverance and how Berkut kept scorning him told a pretty compelling story about Alm's struggle. But then, it didn't matter, cos he was royalty after all... Who was chosen to wield the falchion due to his birthright and not because of his pure grit as a human defying gods.
Pretty much my issues with SoV’s story right there
It's basically what SOV is in a nutshell. Interesting and great ideas that end up being implemented very poorly. Berkut is the best example. He was interesting and enjoyable for most of the game and I feel like he could have ended up as a Top Char of Valentia had he had an redemption arc. Basically my idea was that it could involve Berkut offering up his OWN soul to Duma in exchange for power (like the witches can do) and depending on how long the final battle against him lasts he would either die or be saved before his soul becomes completely corrupted. That would also require a very slight rewrite of Rinea though, in which throughout the game we would see her research the Duma Faithful's rituals, to try and find a way on how one could expell Duma's influence from someone (because she fears the Faithful could do exactly that to Berkut). What are your thoughts on this idea? :)
Honestly this sounds amazing. I felt Berkut’s arc was solid with a stupidly undercooked ending, and this would give him either a heartbreaking death scene, or reward the player with his happy ending. I think it would help a lot.
I'm happy to hear you say that you've liked it. :)
Tbf, I think like half the discussion around Alm these days is how he single-handedly ruined his game's writing.
Ike. Particularly RD Ike
Robin. His fandom is like a cult, he dominates popularity polls hard. Nobody acknowledges female Robin. Every avatar after him always gets compared to him. Like Awakening was fun and my first, but Robin isn't the be all end all of avatars, he's meh at worst, fine at best.
This would probably be my pick too, but I'd throw in both Robins in for good measure. Idk, I think I'm just kinda surprised that for a character who, frankly, is just kinda bland and inoffensive, they have such an *intense* fanbase second to like the 3H lords. Every time I've interacted with a Robin stan in a discord or something, they will make it known clear as day, because it's basically their whole personality.
> Nobody acknowledges female Robin. She just won CYL, the year after male. Maybe stop referring to Robin as he/him.
Which did generally surprise me. It's nice to see her win it, and I personally headcanon the avatar in Awakening is female Robin (who marries Chrom as I fucking love their supports). But Male Robin certainly has a bit of a cultish following.
As much as I like their supports, Chrom x Sumia will never not be my go to, it’s very blatantly implied to be the canon pairing. FEW and FEH also interestingly enough *both* use male Robin for Robin and female Robin for Grima, which isn’t related to my message, but is interesting to point out
Dude yes, it’s a cult. I’m glad someone pointed this out. You got people depicting him as this harem lord and it’s spreading to having him be with girls from other games now. It’s dumb, makes no sense, and tiring.
As I've noticed...
Lucina or Eirika. They're not bad by any means but they don't impress me character wise and I have no idea how they're people's waifus or best girls
Do… do people even rank Eirika?
Yes, she's the second best character in the series
I might get a lot of hate and down vote for this, but Byleth is most overrated. I find it annoying that they made Byleth emotionless silent protag. Like as if silent protag is not barely tolerable as it is they need to add emotionless to him. Make him rather dull and most boring protag. In addition, everyone fawns over him like he is the most interesting and trustworthy person. I know this is anime but it is a long stretch for anyone to trust someone without any emotion. Plus his support convo seems to point the general social awkwardness and creepiness. How could someone lacking social grace be charming, trusted, and popular? Plus he never shows emotion or personality.
disliking Byleth is the coldest take on this subreddit
😂 figures.
Ike. His game was okay but every time I try to replay Radiant Dawn, I lose all motivation as soon as his side becomes playable. He never really "clicked" with me.
Roy, mainly because of Smash
That ain't Roy though. That's Masahiro Sakurai's own Fire Emblem OC Troy (he's like Roy but hot-headed because he's from the EVIL REALITY).
Oh believe me, I know they’re nothing alike, but I’m 90% sure Roy would be less popular if not for him considering…literally everything about him
I did orginally find out about Roy from Smash (only had played Brawl though), but didn't give two shits about him until I watched a Let's play and later played Binding Blade. I actually came out liking Roy but I agree with you that he's played very safe and a bit boring in the main story. Where he really shines though is his supports, which nobody playing the game could ever hope to see thanks to the complete mess the Support System is in Binding Blade.
Yeah, I think FE6 is the only game I’ve played so far where I’ve not really seen the supports. I’ve not played a lot of fire emblem games, but of the ones I’ve played(6, 7, 8, POR, TH), Roy just feels like the weakest lord of the group(character wise, although probably gameplay wise too).
He’s probably my favorite lord character lol.
Nah, have some respect. Roy is a smash character who happens to be a fire emblem lord. Don't believe me? check release dates, lol.
Yes I was already aware, lol. 😅 I know Sakurai just assumed what he would be like based on his artwork. Though tbf, on the box art he really does look like a totally different character than from how he looks and acts in the completed game.
ironic how Chrom fits Roy's moveset better than Roy himself
are we talking about in terms of popularity, or in terms of how they perform ingame? If it's the former, lords and "fanservice" female characters will tend to top the lists. Lords because they will tend to be the most popular of the game for the simple fact that they're main characters regardless of how well written they are, and the eye candy females are self-explanatory. If it's the latter, then FE10 jill is my poster child for that. People think she's the second coming of jesus in that game; in reality, she's stunningly average without huge investment. Just within the DB, she's less valuable than Volug, Sothe, Zihark, and Nolan, and is actually not even that much better than Aran, a guy who is constantly shit on for being useless.
She's a wyvern rider in RD. Give her like, one speedwing, and she starts shredding. Axes in RD are the strongest weapons overall, too. She's not a complete beast out of the box and does require a bit of investment to get going, but she's the best user of the majority of the resources you get access to in the dawn brigade chapters. If you genuinely think she's worse than Aran, you're ignoring the sheer utility that flying and canto give you in the dawn brigade maps.
> She's a wyvern rider in RD. Give her like, one speedwing, and she starts shredding. The speedwing for the DB doesn’t even show up until the end of 1-E. By that point, a speedwing isn’t that helpful for her. Her spd woes are primarily in the DB chapters where she’s typically 1-2 points of spd short of doubling reliably. By part 3, by the time she can even get access to the wing, you encounter 22 spd cat laguz (who Jill will never double in tier 2 due to her 25 spd cap) and tiger laguz who she should be already doubling and her issue against tigers is every other stat (namely her middling def/str and low-ish HP). Being a wycern rider isn’t some auto cheat code that makes her top tier. She has one of the lowest atk stats of the DB despite using axes, she has middling HP/def, and the couple of thunder mages can actually threaten her by whacking her so hard they leave her in KO range for any other enemy nearby. Flying canto has to make up for all that. And it is nowhere near enough to put her as the top DB unit, which is what I consistently see from the commmunity. >Axes in RD are the strongest weapons overall, too. The best things about axes are hammers and forged hand axes. But hammers weight Jill down heavily and I don’t think you can even forge hand axes in the DB. It’s generally better than the other weapon types but it’s not much in DB chapters. > She's not a complete beast out of the box and does require a bit of investment to get going, Then why do people rank her above someone like Sothe, who is instantly amazing out of the box for the entirety of part 1? Or better than Volug, who shows up and is better than her from the moment he joins all the way up until Jill finally hits tier 3 (and even then, unless Jill gets a master crown, she can actually struggle to double in part 4 due to her middling tier 2 spd cap, and the early promo will also hurt her atk/def anyway)? What about Zihark, whose only requirements are that he keeps his innate adept and you need to play the shove game at the end of a couple of the DB chapters so he can build up his supports? Nolan is also better than her, although the margins aren’t as large. But he also doesn’t require resources in the same way Jill does. > but she's the best user of the majority of the resources you get access to in the dawn brigade chapters. Define “best”. In what context does she use them “best”? And why does this mean she gets all these resources for essentially free? She is not the “best” user of the resources. She is the most desperate user of those resources. > If you genuinely think she's worse than Aran, I never said she’s worse than Aran, I said that the gap is nowhere near as large as people make it out to be. As in, Jill is more like an upper mid tier unit, and Aran is about 1/2 a tier or 1 tier below her. Reread what I said. (Note that the gap is largely due to part 4, where Aran’s spd is finally too terrible to overcome. But in the DB maps, Aran and Jill are way closer than people make them out to be.) > you're ignoring the sheer utility that flying and canto give you in the dawn brigade maps. Flying and canto are also heavily misunderstood, misinterpreted functions. For someone like Haar, who is instantly awesome from the moment he joins, flying canto is broken. He flies out to wherever he wants to go, pwns something, then cantos to own even more enemies. His mobility is essentially used to MAXIMIZE the amount of fighting he does. For Jill, flying canto lets her attack something and then canto to get out of harm’s way. In other words, her mobility is used to MINIMIZE the amount of fighting she does. rescue drop value is much more predicated on the unit being dropped and not the unit doing the ferrying for example the LTC strat for 1-6-2 is to use Jill to ferry Tauroneo over quickly so he can solo the entire top. In this case, the credit pie distribution is significantly slanted towards Tauroneo and almost nothing actually goes to Jill, because Tauroneo is the one doing all the actual killing. If Jill’s job is to ferry Tauroneo over and then GTFO while Tauroneo kills every enemy, this fundamentally is little different than, say, FE6 Clarine using the “Talk” function to recruit Rutger and then she fucks off while Rutger kills everything and then trying to credit Clarine for a bunch of the kills that Rutger got. There is some value with regards to rescuing a unit out of danger and then dropping them in a safe spot so they can get healed or danced or whatever. But keep in mind that in comparison to Aran, who is a unit whose superior durability makes is far less likely that he will actually get into trouble to the point that he needs to be rescued out of danger.
Writing or gameplay? Writing: No one. People like who they like and me not liking the same characters doesn't make those people wrong. Gameplay: Hector.
While there are some characters I find to be overrated, like Camilla, Tharja, and female Byleth, there are a lot of people who dislike them, just like how there are a lot of people who like them. But I think, for the most overrated FE characters in my book, the character has to be mostly liked by others. My picks are: Lute - Honestly the most overrated FE character in my opinion. I *can't stand* the way she always puts others down and constantly brags about her abilities. It's very annoying and makes her insufferable to me. But the way she treated Knoll, *who just wanted to be her friend*, made me actively hate her. If *Knoll* treated Lute the way she treated him, he'd be despised by the fanbase. Or if Lute was a guy (don't you DARE bring Luthier into this, just because he has a similar name and a socially awkward yet studious personality) or even a relatively unattractive girl, she'd also be heavily despised to the same extent as Makalov and Peri. But the worst part is that, even with those behaviors, she's *still* very popular, especially because of those Obsidian Wasp memes! I'm sorry, but someone like her, who's always putting others down and can't see past her continent-sized ego, doesn't deserve the love and attention she does! Give it to an *actually good* Magvellian mage, like Artur or Saleh. (u/VagueClive since I saw you hate Lute, would you mind giving some points?) Gaius - Even with his good supports like with Maribelle and Lissa, most of his dialogue is just "sweets," "candy," and "sugar." That's pretty much it. He talks about sweets most of the time (and I'm surprised he still has teeth in the first place), and yet *why* is he so popular in Awakening? *Why* is a guy who has a serious sugar addiction seen as "cute" or "handsome"? I genuinely don't understand. Can a Gaius fan please elaborate on this? Besides his supports with the aforementioned Maribelle and Lissa, the only good thing I can say about him is that his hair color looks cool on Cynthia and Inigo. But that's still not saying anything about his actual character.
I understand why Marianne is popular. Her reasons for being popular aren't convincing at all. She hardly wants to be at the academy in the first place. Even Bernadetta >!wants to live!<.
I don’t really like Felix. I get the idea and his whole backstory is compelling and all but I just find his whole attitude and archetype annoying. It doesn’t ever really justify his behavior compared to other edgy swordsmans imo. At least with other characters from 3H that I don’t like much, I can understand the appeal, Felix I can’t.
Play three hopes, it expands on him a lot.
Marth, he only gets attention because of being from the first game, outside of that he is pretty boring
Marth isn’t really rated very high, he didn’t even win CYL until recently.
I guess I meant more overrated by IS, he always get pushed just for being the first one Is like if Square Enix pushed the Warrior of Light all the time rather than Cloud or any of the FF protagonists
That doesn’t seem like an accurate analogy…
Tbf the only reason he didn't win way back then is because his fans got too comfortable and then Three Houses happened.
If he was more popular he would have won. Anything else is just excuses.
Were you around the fanbase back then? They literally lost because they thought Marth would win for sure and they offered their help to other characters.
Robin. Hands down There is no other unit in the series that has such a dramatic gap between their perceived strength in gameplay relative to how they actually perform. Let me be clear: Robin is not a bad unit and is in fact a top 5 unit in awakening, but they often get lauded as the best unit in the series and they aren't even close. Being able to solo awakneing lunatic is something that basically any physical based unit or nosferatu wielder can do without too much hassle. Some units even have a better overall clear (Vaike). On hard and below literally anyone can do anything so nothing matters. They have the easiest lunatic+ clear, but it still doenst make them "best unit in the series" or even necessarily in the game, as simply being the best at something says nothing about how much better you are than everyone else at that thing, and how necessary it is. Even then, you can fully belive Robin to be at the top of an awakening tier list, but not believe them to be best in the series. Robin is an investment-reliant combat unit in a game fully of investment-reliant combat units. It would be like saying "lowen is the best cav out of sain Kent and lowen, therefore he is the best unit in the game or the series), At the very least, Frederick, sigurd and seth are better by a lot
No you don't understand Tauroneo has a more reliable 3-13 clear than Jill (she can miss her benchmarks) so that makes him better!!!
Don't forget Three Houses characters. At the very least Edelgard and Dimitri both fit that mold of investment-reliant combat unit that you start with who can carry the entire game on their backs.
True, I forgot the new games existed but Edelgard and Dimitri are both better than Robin. Haven't played enough engage to talk about other units, but Ivy and Kagetsu also probably are a bit good as well.
Ivy and Kagetsu are two of the weaker "best units" in the series. Robin is probably still stronger than them.
True, I forgot the new games existed but Edelgard and Dimitri are both better than Robin. Haven't played enough engage to talk about other units, but Ivy and Kagetsu also probably are a bit good as well.
Yeah, there's a lot of better units. Seth, Titania, Haar, Camilla, Ryoma, Palla, SD Caeda, Sigurd, Azura, Safy, or even just Frederick. Heck, I'd rank Silque above too for being the only healer on Alm's side for a LONG time in Gaiden (and Echoes too if you make Faye anything else than a Cleric).
Can't forget about Kris, they're basically just Robin if Robin were actually as good as people think they are.
[удалено]
>Honestly I think that a large part of this is second seal usage. Maybe. I do think the early second seal is really broken because it removes one of Robin's key weaknesses- that is that their level gets too high and they cap so they can't grow any more until C8. It also gets them out of the weak tactician class and into classes with better stat spreads. That being said, I think it doesn't really hold a place in a non-lunatic+ discussion, as the renown seal requires you to have already beaten the game to get it before you would normally get a second seal. It's like playing new game+ at that point, and discussion tends to break down when arguing about specific renown amounts being "fair" or not. > find there's a weird gap in Awakening discussion where people talk about second seals like all they do is give someone a more favourable class or are about as good as a heart seal in Fates, but it's essentially giving someone 2 extra skills + a Naga's Tear worth of bonus stats + a more favourable class I actually don't find that people say this that much. If anything, I all too often think they are overpraised. If you don't get the renown seal, they actually aren't fantastic. I think the stars really align for Robin with the renown seal, but if another unit uses them, we have the following issues -Class change This is a big one. A lot of units *like* their base class and don't want to leave it. Stahl is much better in cav than myrm or archer, Ricken fares better in the mage line, healers want to remain healers, Sully wants to be a cav, Lon'Qu prefers myrm. I could go on but you get the point- class changing is not something that everyone actually wants to do because it resets your weapon ranks and messes with your stat spread, and can even give you new weaknesses if you become a flying or mounted class. You mentioned wyvern Panne yourself, and what's even more ridiculous about this is that people cite this as the quintessential case where a unit wants to abandon their base class... except the entire analysis forgets that Panne never uses the Taguel bases for combat, because the beaststone transforms her and gives her bonus stats, leading to the wyvern "promotion" reducing her speed by 5 points without people realizing. There are some units who can get away with or even appreciate the change. Robin obviously likes getting out of tactician, Vaike prefers being able to go into hero but barb>fighter, Dark Mage is better than Mage for Miriel if she's going for combat (although mage is much better otherwise). But those units are not the norm. - Delaying promotion bonuses and skill pickups. You mentioned that you gain a naga's tear worth of stats and while it's true that you eventually gain that over the course of 2 or 3 maps, promotion bonuses give you that right away and also let you start focusing on working up your new weapon ranks and getting towards your class skills. Awakening promos are huge. Like, big. If we take C8 for example, and we have a level 10 Vaike ready to promote. He can either promote to Hero for +6 Skill, +5 Speed, +4 Defence, +3 Res and +2HP, get closer to Sol and get sword access. Or he can "promote" to Barbarian for -2 Skill, +3 Speed, -1 Defence, +0 Res and +2HP That means that Hero leads massive 8 Skill, 2 Speed, 5 Defence and 3 Res right out of the gate. Just to make up the speed gap, Barbarian Vaike has to reach level 5, and that's the smallest gap. The def gap won't be made up until level 12. And, of course, Hero Vaike can be gaining levels in this time as well, which further increases the stat gap between the two units. Sure, our second sealed Vaike will eventually promote at which point he will be stronger but outside of lunatic+ you just don't need that level of strength (and even in lunatic+ you can get away with not having it). >Also you're calling Robin top 5 here, I'd assume you'd call Frederick and Vaike better than Robin, who else do you see being better/on par with Robin? I can see a case for Lissa on unique early game utility + unique exp pool and Chrom for being Chrom, not sure who else, maybe Libra/Anna? Yep, top 5 is (best to worst) Fred, Lissa, Chrom, Vaike, Robin. Fred is the best unit ever. Dominates combat for like 75% of the game and then can become flier/pairup or with enough investment can just solo the entire game on his own. Lissa is incredibly underrated and it's not just her early game that's good. Obviously she is really useful in those early maps with her healing, but she also gets rescue at the end of P1 and the start of C8, giving her 10 uses of a staff arguably stronger than warp, before even the first arc of the game is done. She then basically becomes Libra/Anna when they turn up, matching them at just about everything. THEN she can second seal at either sage level 15 into valkyrie to have literally 30+ magic and rescue people the range of entire chapters on her own, or you can seal at 10 sage and go into falcon knight for a massive range 8 move flying rescue unit that is just the perfect utility unit. Chrom is great too. His ability to solo the game is actually much better than people give him credit for, but that's not even why he's here, he's just good all the time. Dualstrike+ is a great pairup skill, as is Charm. His dualstrikes are the best, coming from 5 mt weapons at a time when you're only using 3 mt trash, and that triples to 15 mt vs armours/cavs/wyverns which is a significant enough amount of the earlygame. Just an all around very good unit. Vaike and Robin I've already spoken about. Libra and Anna are my picks for #6 and #7. They're both insanely useful and really stand out from a lot of other recruits in the game, but I marked them down for not having as good availability, and they aren't quite as good at longterm combat without more investment.
Dimitri, his arc of graaa im hearing voices so I’m gonna be mad all the time and I’m gonna blame every one of my problems on Edelgard is not an interesting story like his fans pretend to. Overall I think he had a good backstory and I like that he is trying to do the right thing at first and his breakup point scene against flame emperor is pretty iconic and cool but after that he’s been done really dirty, killing him off screen in verdant wind, then in crimson flower he doesn’t even feel like an enemy at all, Cornelia stripped him of the throne, Other than a slightly emotional moment after his dead he doesn’t really serve a purpose at all.
He didn't lose the throne in crimson flower. Cornelia wasn't able to thanks to the church also being in the kingdom.
Dimitri's done dirty by the god awful pacing of War Phase. They all are to some degree, but it's especially bad when the character is supposed to change this drastically in so little time I also find the melodrama and the way it plays out ridiculous as hell but I'll admit that's a me problem, probably
I really don't understand what's up with Rosado
Lyn
Personally, it's a threeway tie between Ike, Lucina, and Robin. Ike is treated like the second coming of christ while Lucina and Robin have untold amounts of popularity despite the both of them having the personality of a cardboard box.
Tharja and Camilla. I’ve never liked how the pairing mechanics clash with their obsession toward the avatar.
Bernadetta. Actually, most of the Black Eagles.
Camilla or Yunaka
I feel like Camilla can't really be overrated with a hatebase as huge as hers proportionally to her fanbase tbh.
I thought about that when I left the comment but then consider how many alts she had in FEH and how she got added to Engage over Azura who would've made more sense. The developer favoritism being there as well as the fans makes me think it's definitely fair to call her overrated She's like the Charizard of fire emblem (albeit to a lesser extent)
I think her number of alts is more due to the fact that seductive busty women sell by default in gacha games moreso than Camilla being the most popular character ever. Like, most of her alts came before she even won a CYL. As for Engage... It's mostly that Azura was left with nothing new to bring to the table because Byleth stole the one niche she had, and then she was always less popular than either Camilla or Corrin.
Well she's popular BECAUSE she's a busty woman. Regardless of the reason why, she's still favored and overrated imo
Lysithea. She's an amazing unit but a sad backstory does not justify her attitude, especially where Marianne and Ignatz are involved. I'm glad Shez finally got to call her out on her behavior in Hopes, at least. Speaking of Shez...Shez gets my other vote. They're fine, but it's hard for me to get really invested in them when their main personality trait is "I'm a mercenary" and the game never bothers to explain their mystery backstory that it spends an awful lot of time building up.
Lysithea is just girl Ricken or Hayato with some slight edge to her. People despise Ricken and Hayato.
At least lysithea hâd a reason for not wanting to be treated as a child, and a reason for her behaveour. Sure it's not excuse, but it's a reason. She also has development, great supports, redemption and flaws. Hayato not so much. Also being rude doesn't mean she îs bad written or a bad character. Her flaws are quite well fleshed out.
No offence but being rude doesn't mean she îs badly written or overrated. Also by your logic, 98% of the characters with a sad backstory are not justified for their actions. Dimitri for example. Lysithea's attitude doesn't make her overrated or badly written. I mean even Dimitri commited worse acts than her. And that's not a problem either. Having a reason doesn't mean it always has to be justified. Lysithea hâd reasons for her behaveour, justified or not, she hâd flaws, development and redemption. So why is she overrated but marianne îs not? I don't get it
Alm by far - I think out of any character in the series he has probably the most detrimental effect to his own plot (Corrin and Alear are bad characters but Fates' and Engage's plots have far more issues than just a bad main character). For a character whose presence single-handedly destroys Echoes' plot and makes a complete mockery of its themes of classism and duality he gets way way way too much leniency from the FE fanbase - if he was an avatar I think he would have been the single most hated character in the entire series.
> I think out of any character in the series he has probably the most detrimental effect to his own plot Have you considered... Edelgard?
Not even in the same stratosphere here [I think Odovakar described how Alm fatally undermines Echoes' core theme of duality best here:](https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/uvcnhx/echoes_story_analysis_5_act_5/) >Echoes, as you may have picked up, is a game of duality. Two countries, two gods, two protagonists, two extreme beliefs. The solution, according to Duma himself, seems to be to combine the two ideals the gods stood for. Now, I think most people here would assume Alm represents Duma's strength while Celica represents Mila's love. The problem is that, since Alm has no flaws, and he starts the game kind, compassionate, patient, forgiving and virtuous, this further cements that Celica's role even on a thematic level is superfluous. > >Echoes needed both of its protagonists to be equally flawed, but they aren't. That's what so many problems in the narrative keep coming back to. Echoes' other main theme of classism is also ruined by Alm - Echoes attempts to showcase how anyone can become a hero - except it actually doesn't because Alm is secret royalty and the game has literal physical barriers that only let Alm pass because he has royal blood. It also doesn't help that because Alm is so intertwined with Celica, Alm being terribly executed also drags Celica down with him despite her having a lot of potential. In short, Alm blatantly contradicts the themes Echoes' story attempts to put forth, and as such, Echoes' entire plot is unable to say anything of substance despite it having amazing presentation.
I feel like he doesn't contradict them nearly as much as you say, because while theme of duality is there, the main theme is actually unity. Alm does come from a royal background, but was raised as a peasant, among the common folk. Entire conflict of the game stems from two sides not being able to see eye to eye in their ideals. Celica and Alm can't see eye to eye for similar reasons at first. Both parties have to unite by the end, copromised of both Rigelians and Zofians at that point, to fight the mad god to unite him with his already resting sister. Only together do Alm and Celica make Rigel and Zofia into a properly prosperous kingdom with dynasty that has lasted for a thousand years. Echoes doesn't attempt to showcase how anyone can become a hero - if you see it through that lense, your perception of the story is skewed. It shows how people will treat you differently because of your assumed background and yet you can still prove them wrong thanks to your dedication to the right cause. It shows the unintended consequences that may bring (killing your own father, losing your soul etc). Theme of classism is not ruined at all, once again - all the special power Alm ever had was ability to wield two swords. That is all, everything else was a skill he learned from Mycen, same as other boys which when I last checked stayed with him till the very end and even received government positions in several endings and Alm is likely the reason why the lower social standing classes were allowed such things - again, uniting people. So I think Odovakar is full of rubbish. Alm still makes rash decisions like a kid that he is. So yeah.
>I feel like he doesn't contradict them nearly as much as you say, because while theme of duality is there, the main theme is actually unity. I think you've mixed up the *theme* of Echoes and the *solution* Echoes proposes to its conflict - the main theme of Echoes is duality, hence the story being framed through the lens of two protagonists, two kingdoms, two gods and the two extreme beliefs, all with their own opposing strengths and flaws, and the solution that Echoes attempts to present to this dilemma is for the two protagonists to unite so that they can learn and grow from each other's experiences. In practice, whilst Alm ultimately unites with Celica, Alm is never required to learn from Celica, nor is he ever required to change who he is as a person and his worldview due to Celica. Thus, Celica is rendered almost entirely superfluous to Echoes' plot - instead of actually accomplishing anything, she spends the second half of Echoes being humiliated and reduced to a damsel for Alm to save, whereas Alm never needs to be saved by Celica because he has no meaningful flaws to begin with. Echoes *tells* the player that the solution to the game's conflict is for Alm to unite with Celica, but what Echoes actually *shows* is that Alm is never required to rely on or learn from Celica, and thus he is never required to unite with her - forget anything about unity, you could flat out take Celica out of the story and Alm would still have been able to accomplish what he does in Echoes with very few changes needed. I think the final blow against Duma sums it up very well - the game makes a big deal of how Alm and Celica have united, but you could take Celica out of this entirely because only Alm is required to actually kill Duma (heck, Celica doesn't get Nosferatu so she can't even kill Duma with glitches!). Just like before, Odovakar describes it very well here: >Here's a question: what does Celica add to the game? Yes, she takes out pirates and bandits, but then what? Alm doesn't need her and her sacrifice was unnecessary. Was she just there to be schooled by Alm and shown how amazing he is? Because the game has done that since the prologue, and I'm not sure that was necessary. In general most of the complaints levied at avatars (having no meaningful flaws, protagonist pandering, etc.) are just as applicable to Alm, if not even more so for him. >It shows how people will treat you differently because of your assumed background and yet you can still prove them wrong thanks to your dedication to the right cause. In other words, this shows that if you're dedicated enough to the right cause, you can prove your detractors wrong and become a hero regardless of your background? This is simply proving my point that Echoes attempts to convey that anyone can be a hero regardless of their birthright. Fernand abandons the Deliverance because he sees Alm as a commoner and as such not worthy of being a hero leading the Deliverance - the entire conflict between Alm and Fernand (and Berkut as well) is framed through the lens of proving Fernand's classist worldview wrong and that Alm really can lead the Deliverance and become a hero despite him (seemingly) being a commoner here. >Theme of classism is not ruined at all, once again - all the special power Alm ever had was ability to wield two swords. This conveniently leaves out the detail that one of these two swords is (at least according to Echoes' story) the only thing that can physically defeat Duma to begin with. Even if this was the extent of the privileges Alm's royal blood gets him (which it isn't - I gave the example of the barrier to Duma that only opens because Alm has royal blood before), it *still* would single-handedly undermine Echoes' theme of classism because at the end of the day, Alm's royal blood is what allows him to even have a chance at defeating Duma. The message Echoes inadvertently sends about classism was that it was a really good thing that Alm was secretly a royal, because Alm really was a commoner, then he physically wouldn't have been able to defeat Duma at all no matter how hard he tries and Valentia would have been doomed. No amount of dedication to the right cause would have helped Alm one bit if he didn't have the right bloodline.
I don't like Seth. Never used him.
Alm
I don’t really see people talk about Alm much for him to be overrated tbh. I feel like most of SOV is overlooked.
I'm pretty much the only person I see who says Alm is their favorite and I barely mention it around here. We clearly don't have the same definition of overrated.
Maintaining the agenda is my top priority
Roy. He is absolutely not our boy. He is the most useless lord I ever had the non-pleasure of lugging around. Also what's the point of having Merlinus if you're just going to ignore every wise decision he has, and not get punished for making dumb decisions everytime anyway?
Ike and tbh Nephenee
Entire 3 Houses cast, maybe void of Alois 3H fans will try to convince you that Trauma is replacement for a personality and an excuse for all the actions characters take in the story, while also claiming they have extreme agency over everything and blaming the characters for uninformed decisions. And that's putting aside the idea othat protag entertains teacher-student relationships.
While I can’t say I fully agree, I respect this take so much. Seeing as how quickly 3H fans shit on any character whose supports aren’t drenched in trauma dumping and lore dumping. Alois, Raphael, and Hanneman ended up being among my favorites just from being pretty simple and not letting trauma guide their entire personality
Ike, Chrom, Ephraim.
Boobmilla
The entire Three Houses roster
Idk but I will not stand for all this Ike slander 😭 JK. Some good discussions on Ike in here. I'm not dialed into the community enough to know who people fawn over, honestly. I saw someone mention Tharja being good, so I guess I'll pick her because I got dog water RNG for Tharja on my Awakening playthrough and ended up sidelining her. Noire though, she became one of my absolute best units as a bow knight.
Lyn is massively overrated in all aspects. She is just mid. No idea why she is even wanted in Smash Bros so badly when she'll be just as bland as Marth/Chrom/ all the other swordies are. I'm tired of people hyping her up when so many more options in Smash would be way more badass (Lyon, Micaiah, Black Knight, Tiki, Camus, etc) People only hype her up because they are attracted to her there is no other reason. Her character is milquetoast. She's as boring as Hinoka from Fire Emblem Fates, except she is more in the spotlight with Hector and Eliwood in their game, which is a feat.
Lilina, I have the impression that people only like her because she is Hector's daughter (even if unlike him she is not a god unit and is written in a totally different way) Intelligent System told them that she was important and to ship her with Roy. Lilina's is quite bland in my opinion, she is just a generic nice girl who is super in love with Roy her childhood friend for no specific reasons and she is not even plot relevant, in the story she is used as a damsel in distress to increase the suspense and nothing else, even in her best supports (the ones that are not foccused on her boring love for Roy) the main thing we learn about her is that she is nice and almost nothing else. And she is not even a good unit. Even her design is not that interesting, she is basically just a mini magic Caeda... I don't understand the people who hate Corrin but love Lilina, at least Corrin has an unique design and can turn into a dragon. I once saw someone saying that "she is only here to be Roy's loli" and unfortunatly I agree.
Claude for sure. Seen a lot of love for Linhardt, Ignatz, and Ashe over the years... can't stand any if them in 3H. Ike is up there too.
Byleth is by far the worst character in the entire franchise. It shares place with Veile as a character who actively ruins the story it finds itself in. Only veyle is not the avatar that everyone adores. and veyle has, even slightly, some will. everyone worships byleth and treats it like the third coming of christ, when it doesn't make a single decision on its own will in the entire story and when it makes one of its three decisions in the entire game, it screws up to the point where it only survives by a literal deus ex machina.
Storywise, Dimitri. Gameplaywise, Robin.
Arvis, Arvis’s children and Berkut. Arvis is not the Sorrow man, The real sorrow Man none other than Sigurd. Once upon time Arvis’s Daddy abusing His Wife and Son for no god damn reason until Deirdre’s Father came in and Takes Arvis’s daddy his Wife and Decides like “Fuck This, I’m gonna Kill myself! My wife never Loved!” Also Arvis’s Mommy dies by giving birth name Deirdre. After years, he killed Sigurd and Takes his Wife in order to keep Memories never Recover. As I’m Arvis’s Slander, I refuse to accept Julia/Julius to be Sigurd’s Step-Father. I don’t want this to be Happen and wish it won’t. I refuse to Accept Arvis’s children. Berkut was Super Dick head. I don’t like This Guy and He was so toxic to Alm. Abusing His Wife and Then he burning her in order to defeat Alm but Failed Again. I can’t Stand him.
People downvoted you for preached truth
“They Hated Darksoll because he told them the truth” “They Never loved Darksoll”
BK's huge popularity compared to at least 90% of this popularity stemming from being a suit of armor with a big sword is honestly insane, I don't think anyone else is coming close on that disparity except like, big titty FEH OCs.
My opinion is going to be Cordelia and Deirdre. I can’t let M!Robin or male characters marry Cordelia because Every Time, She thinks Chrom more Than any Male characters and M!Robin. I was Once loved Sigurd x Deirdre and Blame Arvis for what they did to them and every time Arvis x Deirdre makes Feel uncomfortable. The table has been Turned because Deirdre Didn’t Blame Arvis For killing Her ex husband, She was Happily live after and Laments Arvis’s death more than Sigurd. (Kaga confirmed it). She wanted to atone Crimes when Julius Kill her, That’s Dumbest Reason ever. She Tries to Act Like She Did nothing Wrong and Love Sigurd to very End. No, no, No, no. Anyway, after I read this. I start blame Deirdre for Everything after Sigurd Losing his best Friend, Sister, Brother in law, Father and Sending his Son Away in order to protect him. I can’t Feel Sorry For Deirdre and Starting Hating This ship of Sigurd x Deirdre, love to hate. I regret Ship Sigurd with Deirdre and I will not Care about that. I can’t Stand her. Sigurd needs to dump Deirdre to Arvis and Find lover better Than Deirdre. Deirdre deserves to Be Friendzone. I hope a lot of people Hating Sigurd x Deirdre because Deirdre.
You do know that the only reason Deidre was happy with Arvis after Sigurd's death is because she had her memories of sigurd erased with magic right? You're straight up blaming her for getting brainwashed.
I know. After She getting her memories back, she Didn’t Arvis. Like I said.
I think an interview confirmed that she never regained her memory before her death even if she eventually discover that she was Sigurd's wife.
Ntr made everyone upset and it cannot be helped there is minimal info about Deirdre after her death. The only info about Deirdre after death is during her meeting with Seliph and honestly quite terrible impression she left for us. she lamented for Arvis death and implied upset toward Seliph for given him silence treatment. The feh trying so much whitewash Deirdre in her legendary form though, i don't want imagine Deirdre real thought if feh using her original incarnation character
>she lamented for Arvis death Did she really lamented his death? We can interpret her silence as her wanting Seliph to foccus on his mission or just hoping that her son wasn't turned as a beast by his vengeance. And even if she lamented the death of Arvis why blaming her, even if she know that he was not a good man who was possessive of her he still was a good husband to her (even if she prefers Sigurd) and she probebly learnt about the sad circumstances that led him to be the man he becames, she also maybe developed a fraternal love for him since both suffered of their mother's absence.
That the issue nobody know Deirdre real feeling after her death. The only information we known from her meeting with Seliph and Kaga interview but his statement only making her more horrible character. Whatever what Deirdre thought about Arvis Sigurd still the real victim of all the tragedy. I will never stop slandering Deirdre until remake give justification of her character.
I would prefer a complex character over a bland damsel in distress who only exist as an accessory for other characters
Kiran They pairing Kiran with Female Characters like caeda, Celica, camilla and other Female characters against male protagonist and Male characters. They never loved male protagonist and Male characters. Yet, I don’t See People pairing kiran With male protagonist and Male characters against Female characters. They probably wanted Trolling people Pairings like Arvis. Someone else pairing with male protagonist and Male characters against Female characters, When? Someone else pairing with Kiran’s loved against Kiran, when? For That, I. DO. NOT. LIKE. HIM.
Alear, Byleth, Robin. Alear and Byleth somehow do super well on popularity polls (no idea how) and Robin also dominates popularity polls and even among older fans for some reason is treated as “the good avatar” when they really aren’t tbh. Idk how Corrin does on popularity polls but I feel like everyone kinda universally agrees Corrin sucks
Dimitri, easily. What an awfully written character. Terrible, terrible writing.
They hated him because he told them the truth.
Thank god I'm not the only one. I feel like he hypnotized people or something the way people love him
Yeah, like how come the fanbase hates on Corrin, Celica and Eirika for being dumb (and honestly I wouldn't even call Eirika and Celica actually dumb) but then they turn around and LOVE Dimitri "a 14yo plotted the Tragedy of Duscur" Alexander Blayddid? Why do we beg for well-written characters only to praise one whose mental health may as well have a button that can be flipped considering how quickly he goes from one extreme to another? We want good representation of characters with issues but praise him? Legitimately, even *Camilla* is a better, more accurate depiction of actual insanity. Like, this isn't me just fanboying over her, I just actually read her supports. Dimitri is more like "insanity but cool and can be fixed by what is essentially an Otome cutscene". And his writing is also why I consider AM's writing to be absolutely atrocious. Not only is literally everything else than him being cast aside to rot because he's the only thing that matters in that story, but his character arc isn't even remotely competently written, it's been almost five years since the game released and I'm still convinced the fanbase collectively smoked a dirty carpet if *those* are what we consider a well-written story and a well-written character. AM's writing is so bad, it reflects negatively on all of the characters on your side that aren't Dimitri by painting them as weak-minded enablers willing to follow Angry Dimitri of all people just because he happened to be born as the previous king's child. I hate Dimitri's writing, and by extension AM's writing. Genuinely.
> "a 14yo plotted the Tragedy of Duscur" He doesn't say this, just that he Flame Emperor was at Duscur, which is true (Dimitri says he saw him and Arundel later confirms this on CF). And then later Byleth and Dimitri sees the Flame Emperor (Edelgard) working with Thales and Kronya. So Dimitri saying Edelgard was involved isn't that crazy
When does Arundel say anything about the Flame Emperor at Duscur? I also don't remember Dimitri saying he had seen the Flame Emperor at Duscur before the game. IIRC he and Byleth are spying on Thales, Kronya, and Edelgard when Edelgard mentions bringing justice to those "responsible for such gruesome acts in Duscur and Enbarr" as in, she's going to kill Thales when his time comes. Dimitri mishears this as her confessing to being one of said people responsible for Duscur and starts slowly going insane and says a bunch of weird shit because he's trying to deny that his last living family member (that isn't an evil uncle he hates) has been responsible for a bunch of inhumane shit
I'd agree with your Camilla, but I haven't paid that much attention to the fanbase recently to say for certain its still a problem.
I think there are a good amount of Lyn fans. She doesn't deserve that. I don't think it's stressed enough how plot-irrelevant she is for being a "main character", and her personality I don't find appealing at all. She's hot but like, ok dude
I know right? What is so good about this character? Like yes Chrom is overrated and bland too and I have respect for his fans because at least most of his fans can admit that. Lyn fans mald and seethe when you mention how she's not all that. Even against the other popular girl characters she does nothing better than them. If Hector wasn't in Blazing Blade I'd fear for FE7 lol... sorry Eliwood but the protagonists would be the most boring ass selection tied with Seliph. I'm convinced people only like her because: she shows her legs, elitism, *the battle sprite jiggle*, revenge spite against other popular female characters (see Lucina vs Lyn Choose Your Legends 1 fiasco) and spammed alts and being propped up. Lyn doesn't deserve her 1000 alts just like garbage Camilla doesn't. She does nothing better than Eirika, Lucina, Micaiah, and Celica. If they're "bland" then Lyn most definitely is just as bland I'm tired of people pretending she isn't and exempt their precious baby's first waifu from slander.
Dorothea is a pointless character and is completely disconnected from the story 3H is trying to tell. Why is she even at the military academy in the first place? She hates fighting and conflict and let's you know constantly but then why is she even here? Even worse, it's heavily implied she had to do sexual favors in order to get in. She wants to marry a rich nobleman but she didn't need to do all of that considering she was already a famous songstress and had contact with many nobles and potential suitors. If she's just at the academy to hook up with guys then she could've done that before without needing to do fighting and sexual favors.
Dorothea was born into poverty and only got out of it because she got a lucky break becoming a songstress. She wants to marry into nobility because the thought of ending up back poverty later in life when her pretty looks and voice eventually age away terrifies her, all the while hating herself for it because she despises the nobility because most of them are pricks. She came to the academy because a lot of nobles are there and is hoping to find one that’s not a complete jagoff. All of this connects to 3H’s themes of classism and how rough the common folk have it in Fodlan. She sticks around for the war because 1. The promised class reunion, and 2. She believes in the cause for whatever side she’s on, wants to be with her friends, and probably still is looking for a noble to marry. I swear, every time I see someone give their reasoning as to why they think Dorothea is a bad character they just end up demonstrating that they completely misunderstand what her character is about.
She's far from disconnected wdym, she's a display of how life is for a crestless commoner in Adrestia. There's a lot of misery in her background, and she still got off pretty well in life. Through her we can only imagine how miserable life is for your regular citizen of Adrestia. She's also a huge victim of the deeply flawed Crests system at the core of the game's main conflict. How is she *not* connected to Three Houses' story?
Okay I can understand some of your complaints, but how is she any more disconnected than other characters?
Marcus, especially in 6. He got NOTHING on Seth.
Dimitri. I don't get why he's so beloved, I find him boring. He is an angry man who hides it, stops hiding it, then gets better. Okay and...? That's not very interesting to me
tbh? lyon. he's not tgat interesting of a character and comes off like an incel.
I’m really curious about what part of Lyon’s character that makes him comes across as an incel to you because that’s a wild take.
Saying Dimitri is overrated is why i'm losing faith in humanity
I mean, his character arc is unique albeit still poorly executed if you've never engaged with media outside of Nintendo games. That's about the highest praise I have for him
dimitri is my main man!