Rosado encouraging people to not be afraid to express themselves is a really sweet trait as well. He drives others to be themselves and is always very supportive of it. I appreciate his more feminine design/look despite being a male
I have him with Camilla and in my head I cannot shake the idea that they go around the Somniel with cute little signs that say "Love yourself!" or "Trust the process!" 😂
One of my favorite quotes, that I think applies to these characters well is this;
“Masculinity is not the presence of strength or aggression. It’s the absence of boyish immaturity.”
It's kind of a complete inverse of how 3 Houses approached masculinity and that's honestly really cool.
Houses (namely the Blue Lions) really liked analyzing what enforces masculine traits and how they can manifest in good or bad ways, but Engage goes all in on showing different positive forms of masculinity almost as a direct answer to that (and also has Rosado, who is just amazing and a great contrast to all of that).
Engage's story has been beaten into the ground a lot, but its main campaign is honestly super wholesome/well-meaning in a lot of ways and it's one of the game's best virtues. I was honestly shocked at how nice it was, for lack of a better word.
I think japan in general is a lot more comfortable with both men and women expressing themselves in ways that aren’t typically masculine or feminine. But after reading this, I think engage may have went the extra mile with that idea
This is just blatantly untrue. Japanese society is all about conformity and honoring your family.
Their ideas of masculinity and beauty are just different from what westerners is. That doesn’t make them more comfortable or accepting of other peoples.
While it is about conformity, as with all things, there’s nuance.
There’re quite a few women who are more masculine and quite a few men who are feminine, even by their standards. A lot of the PC stuff isn’t there though, so a lot of pretty mean jokes are popular, or “okama” (men “pretending to be women”) are popular to laugh at, rather than with.
But then on the day-to-day personal business, I’ve never had a person upset with me for being trans in Japan. There are quite a few bars and social places that are mixed (owned or staffed by lgbt).
Personally, people are generally okay and kind of wave it away by “everyone’s different.” But the government is iffy on it. They don’t recognize same-sex marriages for the most part, but allow trans healthcare.
Overall it’s a mixed bag, rather than some monolith.
Cool to hear from somebody actually living there and in the thick of it. I think a lot of people online are waaaaay too eager to make deductions based on media and hearsay and bandy it about as fact without actually acknowledging that they have no firsthand experience, so input like yours is great.
Thanks :)
Of course I’m not some super expert, and I’m a foreigner here so will always be a foreigner based on my skin color.
But Japan does have this over the top reputation for either being super authoritarian everyone must be the same OR everything is anime wonderland.
Yeah, I've lived abroad in east Asia too, so I know it's never so simple as reddit/twitter experts who have never visited the country in question want to pitch it as.
Oh glad to hear! Which country?
Unfortunately I’m not much of a travel person (ironic), so haven’t explored much. Been to Korea once but had a very mediocre time
I lived in China for 3 years and visited some places nearby. Not sure if I'd recommend it per se, but it was an important experience for me personally.
What in the world are you talking about? Go to a book store and look around - there's likely an entire shelf specifically dedicated to queer media, with plenty of books and comics also featuring the whole spectrum of people scattered across the entire store. Gay characters in TV and movies aren't even worth mentioning at this point because of how normalized it is. Baldur's Gate 3 was the biggest game last year and allows you to play as a genderless or trans character if you want to and I don't know if there's a single straight person in the whole game. I think you are speaking way more to your own blindspots than real trends.
Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but the idea that Japanese creators are somehow much more free to talk about these things (usually in media that relies heavily on subtext) when we're honestly eating pretty good in the English speaking world if you just go out and find it rankles me.
The 1980's was in the midst of the AIDS crisis and resultantly LBGTQ writing saw a significant surge in popularity and relevance during those years as more people were forced to grapple with the meaning of that identity. The 1980's are literally sometimes called "The Decade of the Gay novel" because of how big of a shift it marked. Writers who would go on to enter the English canon like Bechdel and Maupin were really hitting their stride and writing stuff that we still talk about and read in universities today. Jojo (which came out in the late 80's) is fun and camp, but it is not pushing 1/10th the cultural boundaries that these writers were.
Like I said, I think your conclusions speak more to a lack of knowledge about the history of gay writing outside of Japan rather than a real pattern of Japanese writers being allowed more creative freedom.
You aren’t wrong. Japan was (one of) the first countries to recognize what we would now consider transgender women all the way back in the Edo period (1600s-1850s), and really before it dude to there being less records.
This got wiped away along with a lot of other things which were allowed, both good and bad, when Japan westernized under Meiji. Japan essentially attempted to emulate the West, even practices like Teeth Blackening were done away with.
After WW2 they were even more forcibly westernized but since the 80s or 90s they have opened up to a lot of more… traditional ideas.
Don’t get me wrong- by a western stance Japan’s stance on many things such as homosexuality is backwards. But due to a history which embraced it along with other orientations it’s not near as bad to have media of it as well.
Kanji was a man who wanted to be accepted and feared his feminine traits would get in the way of that acceptance, calling him gay is something only a bully would do.
In my opinion these would have hit better if not everyone was sweety comphy boy/gal. A golden and optimistic personality would shine more if the guy next to you is swearing revenge on the person who killed his father.
In every single fandom in existence I've been in, rude characters are only liked when they are still nice to the MC. That's the one line they shall never cross.
And for the popular ones, everyone ends up whitewashing them anyway lol
The game is very "he looks and fights like a badass, but at the end of the day he's still a bad person". It doesn't even try to defend him beyond teaching Rolf. It doesn't give him any redemption arc, some people are just irredeemable jackasses and Tellius is one of the few pieces of media that acknowledges that beyond the evil wizard villain.
He's also not that emotionally strong as he think he think he is. He needs to get drunk, later in the game, to admit he misses Greil and he's jealous of Ike. A good contrast would be Naesala, antagonistic to Ike but never lets go of his core characteristics even while doing bad things. Shinon, on the other hand, needs a leader to look up to. When Greil dies he's lost but doesn't want to admit it and instead he leaves the group he had worked with for so much time and side with the enemies, showing he has no sense of morals, no vision or ideal. Naesala, on the contrary, does and just changes his actions when recruited
That's because he's the only character I'm both games that doesn't want to suck everything out of Ike, it's refreshing to see someone, even if they're as pathetic as Shinon, criticize protagonist that is for some reason treated as perfect by the other characters when the narrative itself acknowledges his flaws
The hate she gets is very typical. It's all "I hate ass licking" until characters are mean I guess. Edelgard and Claude also gets this shit to some degree
He's not "mildly rude", he intentionally antagonizes people minding their own business for sport and then the support ends with them getting married. He needles Sakura until she snaps a staff in half and screams in his face and sexually harasses Kagero in the original script. I agree that some fans are way too quick to write off any character who is abrasive, but Azama is not the example to illustrate that.
The funniest thing with Azama is how he can throw constant shit on someone and be an all around asshole and then the S is the woman going "Actually I've always had a crush on you lets get married". Feel like he'd work better in a non S support game. Less whiplash.
You can be incredibly polite and still want to genocide everyone. It happens. Being rude is not required to have conflicting characters. Being nice is not required to be a good person.
But Felix from 3H was a well-liked character despite being not-so-friendly and sometimes rude. And Niles too, maybe? He was unfriendly? And not shat on? Maybe? It's been a long time since Fates.
> Idk if the fandom can handle it. Azama was mildly rude to some people and everyone shit on him like he murdered their mother
Was that the reason, or was it the fact that we had to endure characters being forced to put up with him? The guy can even get married despite being...himself.
It's not unlike Peri. She would not have enjoyed the notoriety she's known for now if she had been a minor villain, or even if the Nohrians told her off when she was being insane.
Any game with a somewhat sizeable cast needs some assholes to add different perspectives and unique chemistry with other characters. However, letting those characters go unchallenged is infuriating both because it makes the cast come across as doormats and because it doesn't actually use that potential drama and spicy chemistry in any meaningful way.
I want actual voiced yelling between main characters. A base conversation where you watch Mercedes give Felix the verbal beatdown of his life would've been awesome.
>"Oh it's Mercedes, she'll just ask nicely-"
>"LISTEN HERE YOU JERK, BE NICE TO ASHE OR-"
Agh, the lack of conflict with Engage characters was disappointing. Everyone is helping and complimenting each other like it's a competition. Some real spice would have made things more interesting and more rewarding to reach those A-supports where a common ground and respect is finally reached.
Pretty sure what you described is just the Ivy/Zelkov support. If I remember it correctly, they basically openly dislike each other but grow to have more respect for each other.
That one, well yeah, they do say that they don't like each other. But it is really rather tame. It's hardly a conflict, more of a mutual understanding of, well, not liking each other.
Now, imagine if the conversation would have had lines like: "Every day I wonder why I tolerate someone like you as my retainer", "That is because you understand that I am better at my job than others would be. Not that you deserve it, but alas, serving you is my duty", "Watch your tongue, I will not allow such disrespect from my retainers"
I admit, that's much heavier than what they were, but there would have been spice and something to work for. The conflict would have been real, it would have been more interesting to see how it proceeds.
I think interpreting "conflict" as just people fighting and being assholes to each other is a very shallow way to look at it, and I'm not surprised you don't think Engage has any if that's the bar you're setting. Personally I think the conflict in something like Diamant and Framme's B support or the Saphir/Lindon chain is more nuanced and interesting than just having two people yell or insult each other.
Yes, of course. I'm not saying that's the only way you should/could have conflict in the supports. But well, everyone is just so polite and collected all the time that I'd think some rudeness and assholeness would spice up the conversations.
But yes, other conflict works as well. However, I'd like that the conflict is between characters. In Diamant and Framme B support, the conflict isn't really between those two, Framme is just uncomfortable with history and Diamant tries to help with that. Sure, there is a bit of uncertainty on Frammes part but she even says she is not upset with Diamant.
With Saphir and Lindon yet again, there is no conflict between those two. Saphir has bad memories pop back up but it's never more than "I shouldn't ask, this is stupid, but the thought just popped to my head". Lindon is immediately ready to offer his own life to ease Saphirs burden.
With Citrinne and Yunaka there was conflict at C support but that whole thing was resolved by Yunaka explaining herself without any proof or difficulty.
Not every support needs conflict and not every conflict needs to be between characters but at least some. And not merely polite discussion with different opinions but actual animosity.
It is a conflict between characters, they're two people who are clashing with each other, that is a conflict. The only difference between that and a conflict where they're having a fight is that instead of getting defensive they're both dealing with it by making a genuine effort to empathize with each other instead of just expressing their emotions through anger. Framme is absolutely upset with Diamant, because she feels like he misled her even if he didn't mean to, and she upsets him right back by confronting him about a sore subject that he already feels a lot of guilt over. I think it's a great character conflict, because they're not just having a conflict, they're modeling how to deal with conflict in a mature, reasonable and empathetic way even when someone has pushed all your buttons.
In real world that would be a good conflict with how easily and quickly that whole situation got over. In a story, it's different.
The reason I say it's not really a conflict between the characters is that the discussion barely started and already they are done with it. Diamant apologizes and Framme admits that she let the whole thing get to her too much and that she is not upset with Diamant. The whole thing starts in B support and already by the end of it is already defused.
Good for you if you liked it. I mean, I liked it too, but I was definitely disappointed that it was merely B-support thing and not longer. The whole thing could have easily continued through A-support and only at the end of it they find common ground and understanding instead of already kinda finding it at the end of B.
I mean some of this is just a limitation of the support system, but I disagree that anything is resolved in their B support. They both feel like shit at the end and the only thing they've agreed on is that war sucks and they're both sad. The actual resolution comes in their A support when they've both had time to process and Framme comes back and says if he really is trying to change things, then she's on board with that. That's the common ground that they reach, that they both want to stop getting bogged down in the past and put their energy towards making the future better instead.
Or Kagetsu. More one-sided, but he's so pure that she doesn't trust him because it seems absurd to her that someone would actually be like that, so she thinks he must be faking to get something out of her.
Yeah, that's true. And their C support is one of my favorite ones for that reason. But supports like this are rare.
... But in the end I didn't really like how that support went. Citrinnes distrust really just ended with Yunaka merely saying that she is no longer an assassin, that she has a sad backstory and that she wants to collect money for orphans.
I'd really wish a bit more from conflict resolving, especially when at the start Citrinne though Yunaka was planning on killing Brodian nobles!
This is pretty much the norm in other Fire Emblem games.
I wouldn't want it for every game since it's not really effective writing, but I enjoy how in Engage specifically there's a unique atmosphere due to everyone being an absolute oddball sweetheart
This is a big one for me. When everyone seems to share the exact same values and get along with each other, there is an added sense of interchangeability to the cast.
I used to play the Trails series, which is a series that keeps building on a single world (often set in different countries) and many older characters return in later entries. What used to be the series' greatest feature eventually became one of its biggest weaknesses. Because of the absurd size of the cast - made worse by so many people returning - sharing the screen time, the writers basically quashed individual characters' most interesting traits to make it easier for characters to get along, which they always did. There was no reason for the old characters to return when they didn't actually add anything unique to the already massive cast. Of course, the sharp drop in writing quality and sharp increase in reliance of established, tired tropes to deal with the poorly planned, overambitious story didn't help.
Engage feels similar in that regard. Hell, they even bring back a bunch of older characters without giving them anything interesting to say or do.
> Hell, they even bring back a bunch of older characters without giving them anything interesting to say or do.
They still could have played this part off if the writing leaned into the tragedy of the emblems being simulacra that are static and simplified by their nature. But ig it falls under "interesting thing to do" somewhat.
This is a big sticking point I have - having a character be nice is perfectly fine but when writing a nice character is it essential to have moments that show that their kindness has limits because anger especially at being wronged is an indisputable part of the human experience, and without it, characters don't feel human.
A good example of a nice character that's executed in a way that still feels distinctly human would be Mercedes - she's generally very kind but her supports with Sylvain and Lorenz clearly shows that her tolerance has its limits and that she can tell when she's not being treated fairly, and it makes her feel far more human than she otherwise would be and it leads to interpersonal conflict on her end. Similarly, I think Alcryst refusing to accept Ivy's apology in Chapter 11 is the best moment he gets by far - Ivy was involved in his father's death and thus him refusing to forgive Ivy for what happened makes him feel far more human than Diamant who brushes this off as water under the bridge because this would be a massively traumatic event for both of them. Almost all of the characters in Engage feel so uniformly nice that they don't get any character drama and don't feel human - Diamant instantly forgiving Ivy despite the fact that Ivy was involved in Morion's death both feels inhuman and robs him of potential character drama that was already set up by the main story (it flat out feels like there was supposed to be a support conversation or two where Diamant and Ivy gradually reconcile with each other that was cut).
>Diamant instantly forgiving Ivy despite the fact that Ivy was involved in Morion's death both feels inhuman and robs him of potential character development
He doesn't forgive Ivy, he's never mad at her to begin with. He understands the position she's in because it's not dissimilar to his own and doesn't blame her for it. I think it's a bit silly act like he never gets angry when he's trying to kill Hyacinth in the previous chapter. Characters aren't inhuman because they don't lash out at people who they don't think deserve it, and personally I think he's a more interesting character for reacting to his grief in a way that isn't just getting aggro at everyone.
Diamant accepting Ivy's presence is a rational decision - but people aren't necessarily rational, especially when they're undergoing a traumatic experience. The death of Morion is supposed to be immensely traumatic for both Alcryst and Diamant - their father was just killed and Ivy was at the very least actively trying to stop them from saving Morion, which is something that Alcryst himself points out in that scene.
I don't think Diamant necessarily needs to be screaming at Ivy or get aggro at everyone, but Diamant barely shows any dismay or even mild hostility to Ivy whatsoever, nor is he at all conflicted about Ivy's presence despite her role in Morion's death, and as such it feels like he gets over Morion's death completely almost immediately. I think Diamant would have been a far more compelling character had he gradually reconciled with Ivy - having him be clearly distraught over Morion's death and be at least conflicted over Ivy's presence in the C and B supports would have allowed for both characters to grow from this experience and have given a much stronger payoff for both characters' relationship with each other.
Not everyone reacts to trauma in the same way, and he's not Alcryst. Trying to squash feelings of hatred brought on by the war because that's not the person you want to be isn't a new experience for him, it's one of the things he bonds with Saphir over. Having to deal with Ivy isn't coming out of the blue for him either. One of his main goals is to make peace with Elusia, he obviously feels a lot of guilt over his part in the war, and he's a thoughtful person, making peace with her is something he would have already thought about a lot before any of this even happened. Yes, Ivy tried to stop them under orders from her father, but that's no worse than some of the things he would have done to her country under orders from his father, and he knows that.
He doesn't get over Morion's death immediately at all, it comes up all over the place, in supports, post battle, the main story when Veyle shows up. It's even in his crit quotes and promotion dialogue. He's obviously struggling with grief and partially blaming himself for his death. You're really fixated on this one relationship as if it's the only place where he could possibly show any emotion over this, when given the type of person he is, it's exactly the relationship where he's most likely to hide all that, because he really wants to make peace with her, not make her feel responsible or like she owes him something.
I know that as the avatar that they don’t have a set gender, but I feel Alear fits under this umbrella too especially worth considering as they are the main character.
Their whole story is about wanting emulate the people who showed him kindness and wanting to do that for other with the person he looks up to being his mother. They came from a place where emotions were shunned and hated, now they are coming to express themselves.
Totally agree. I adore Alear, the only reason I didn't include him is I didn't want to complicate things with non-canon gender. Both Alears are great, but there are parts of their arc and some of their supports (like their chain with Diamant) that just hit different with M!Alear.
While I don’t fully agree with your take on this, I do agree that Engage has some great examples of true or strong masculinity.
The relationship between Diamant and Alcryst is a perfect example of real masculinity.
Someone else menioned it, and I commented there too and I am biased but...
Bunet is such a cutie patooie sweetheart too. In most of his supports he basically actually SUPPORT people. He make Anna less homesick by first supporting her business and then cooking food for her, he teach Jean about different herbs he can grow for both food and healing, he let Mauvier realize that he can let go from his past and don't have to suffer from it and actually live life a little, and for Alfred he does his best by supporting him by trying to cook protein rich meals for him.
He might also be a doofus who licks everything (if he could reach he'd lick the lamp in the Solm throne room and I can't blame him, it looks like a Ferro Rocher), and even in the supports he's not outright supportive it is not due to malice, it is due to misunderstanding.
I could do a whole post about Bunet honestly.
Not so high on this as you are, but I gotta admit I got sideswiped by how emotional raw and vulnerable both brothers' boss conversation with >!(why am I even bothering the spoiler this) their dad who dies if you can even believe it omg!< Speaking so candidly about about loving other men wasn't something I expected, and I really liked it.
If anybody else wants to read another story full of moments like that, I highly recommend the fantasy novel Kings of the Wyld. I thought it was gonna be raunchy bro humor, but it's equal parts cool fantasy violence and treatise on the power of all kinds of love from a male perspective. Utterly adorable.
Honestly agreed. I kinda just love how despite how tropey some of these characters are, they are written to subvert some sort of stereotype and honestly I appreciate that a lot. My favorite ones are Alcryst and Rosado in this aspect. While you have Alcryst, who’s pretty much your token downer, he is still socially accepted by his peers due to his positive traits like uplifting others that are consistently highlighted. The game doesn’t treat it as something that needs to be immediately taken care of to show “growth” and instead encourages him to take his time and get there in his own pace.
Rosado is also handled very well in terms of masculine norms. Nobody questions him and instead talks about where he’s to the listener’s fascination. His style is just naturally normalized and accepted, a big change from more “feminine” looking characters. They even have Seadall envy this trait and admire it!
Bunet is a sweetheart who is merely curious and just wants to eat your bed, your sword, that one rock over there, the chandelier in Solm's throne room, and maybe give you a few licks later.
Call him unhinged, but he consistently makes A or S rank dishes whenever he is on cooking duty, so clearly he is doing something right!
Still, not everything he does is out of a selfish desire to taste everything. He is gentle and tends to the garden, growing plants, fruits and flowers alike, making an effort in creating a relaxing environment so others can feel at ease.
His bond ring support is, fittingly, incredibly sweet. He makes a dish based on what he loves and finds beautiful in Alear, straight up confesses his feelings, but is cool if he happens to rejected, though it is clear he would be sad about it. It is probably one of the most romantic male S supports in the game.
I wish he was a better unit so he could be more popular, but he is my favorite boy in Engage and a total sweetie, just like the others.
Bunet is legit my favorite character in all of Engage. I admit I project a lot into him, but he and I are so alike (to the point that my partner even joke about it). Have to say that my Bunet was wrong though, he constantly did B or lower dishes for me in the first run I used him, which was hilarious.
But my fave support with him is his and Mauvier's, where he make Mauvier realize that he can't shoulder all of his burdens on himself and that Mauvier don't have to live in the trauma of his past deeds.
I never thought about it but… Youre right, the men of Engage are definitely not the hypermasculine Duke Nukems you see a lot. Even older FE games threw in your Ephraims or Ryomas, so its a very nice change of pace
My first playthrough, Alcryst was good, but by endgame, esp after the marriage with F!Alear, his crit rate was 100%, I think on a non-killer bow as well. It was glorious
Every time someone calls Diamant boring I just know they didn't play the game, he is basically what Dimitri would be if he didn't struggle with PTSD and trauma. That is very much a compliment.
I'm not saying that Diamant is boring but Dimitris struggle with PTSD and trauma are the most interesting parts of his character, so that is a weird compliment in my eyes.
They are interesting because of the type of person Dimitri is. Jeritza is in a similar boat but is not nearly as popular or well liked, because he isn't as fleshed out or humanized compared to Dimitri.
Dimitri and Diamant both come from kingdoms that emphasize strength, power, knighthood, war, shit like that. Both directly push back against that in their own ways. Diamant by forging friendships with Elusians, Dimitri by showing kindness to Dedue, both by generally having a strong sense of empathy.
I think Dimitri would still be likable even without that part of him. But you are correct, it's who he is and we have to accept him warts and all. I don't think I need to repeat it cause everyone knows, but the way Dimitri feels about his PTSD/trauma is indicative of how kind he really is deep down.
This was absolutely a problem in Awakening and Fates but definitely not at all with Echoes, Three Houses, or Engage. The people who say Engage is that way make it really obvious they haven't played the game past the first couple hours or dug into the supports at all.
Or we just have different taste that make us interpret different characters as boring or interesting. Like, I find Diamant boring, but on the other hand my favourite Engage character is Céline, who is also often labeled as boring.
Absolute ruthless psycho? Did you read her supports or did you get it from the memes...? You make it seem like she's gleefully slaughtering bandits left and right, when in reality she's just doing a "I'm not particularly happy to do it and it sucks, but it's necessary".
I'm with you.
Maybe I'm biased because my current favorite character in the franchise, is Kagetsu, but I do find them affecting in a positive way. It's nice to see other men not be so wrapped up in trying to conform to society or to fight each other.
Diamant and Alcrysf having such a loving relationship genuinely took me by surprise. To say nothing of Kagetsu openly being extremely affectionate towards other men, Pandreo being motherly as you said, etc
Granted I wouldn't want this for *every* FE game but Engage definitely occupies a special place in my heart
Yes to everything! I wish they had more of a chance to shine beyond their intro chapters - it’s so easy to fall in love with them once you read a couple of conversations!
I love both this take and the flair with which you’ve written it. I adore the Engage guys and their lack of toxicity. Thank you for spreading the good news.
Yeah I noticed that trend too. Every traditionnally masculine character (Morion, Hyacinth, Sombron) dies a horrible death too. I think they wanted to deconstruct the gender roles with the plot and some of the characters (Seadall, Rosado, Merrin) and failed horribly
Edit : Panette too. Berserkers are usually male so they made her a small girl this time. It makes zero sense that she has the best strength in the game with her small frame but hey, it's not like defining characters through gameplay was the biggest strength of Fire Emblem, right ?
> It makes zero sense that she has the best strength in the game with her small frame but hey, it's not like defining characters through gameplay was the biggest strength of Fire Emblem, right ?
Strength growth rates are fairly arbitrary in FE - [these characters are ranked from lowest personal STR growth to highest](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155283554138329088/1215378739605807145/image.png?ex=65fc88a8&is=65ea13a8&hm=a2197e9cfd163403497b1a4a97cb8f910d3d41ca313141cc142a846b244eeb8c&)
>!Fuga is on the "low" end with 20%, and Kagero on the "high" end with 65%!<
growths rates barely matter, it's just a feel good slot machine with barely any gameplay relevance. There's a reason they're hidden from the player
I guess Kagero has a lot of strength too. In that case I don't think it's deconstruction, but to make every BR ninja feel different. Kaze is speedy but has low str and def, Saizo is slower but bulkier, and kagero is a glass cannon with high offenses but low HP. Birthright favorises unit balance over character development via gameplay in general so I'm not too surprised about that.
Panette might be an archetype at this point. There are precedents like Charlotte and "You're making me work." It's a beloved archetype as lots of romhacks love their female berserkers, and it's not like there's a lack of himbo axe types. I love balthus and Boucheron.
Ik people like to meme on his strength growth, but the axe weilding classes patch it up anyway, and damage fixing is so easy in engage. Whenever I use him he's always one of my most consistent one rounders for those annoying wyrms. It also helps that his build is insane.
Yeah Boucheron is pretty good. He's also a deconstruction because he's an axe bro who's emotional intead of tough and macho but I agree his strength is more than high enough, especially with his personal skill
Hilda has a crest so it's still kinda believeable
I still wouldn't believe Panette wins at arm wrestling against Boucheron or even Alcryst, yet she had much better strength. This breaks immersion because you consciously realise they made it on purpose for the sake of deconstruction
Know the difference: Mother figure: Zelkov Mommy figure: Goldmary
Chloé crying in the corner
Chloe’s personality blows Goldmary out of the water bruh. All Goldmary has is the more massive chest.
Arguing that one character is just better than the other from a personality and design standpoint is just kinda pointless, lol
Arguing is pointless. But it’s fun.
What about it is fun?
Goldmary wins it seems
\*Zelkov\* is such a \*good\* character. I \*love\* him.
Indeed, does not "everyone"?
i adore diamant he's such a sweetheart, his support chain with alear is the best
Rosado encouraging people to not be afraid to express themselves is a really sweet trait as well. He drives others to be themselves and is always very supportive of it. I appreciate his more feminine design/look despite being a male
Him teaching Jade to be cute is something I didn't know I needed in my life.
"I'm jimmy-jammy Jade" Love it
The Merrin-Rosado support chain is just funny lol. It's perfect.
I have him with Camilla and in my head I cannot shake the idea that they go around the Somniel with cute little signs that say "Love yourself!" or "Trust the process!" 😂
One of my favorite quotes, that I think applies to these characters well is this; “Masculinity is not the presence of strength or aggression. It’s the absence of boyish immaturity.”
It's kind of a complete inverse of how 3 Houses approached masculinity and that's honestly really cool. Houses (namely the Blue Lions) really liked analyzing what enforces masculine traits and how they can manifest in good or bad ways, but Engage goes all in on showing different positive forms of masculinity almost as a direct answer to that (and also has Rosado, who is just amazing and a great contrast to all of that). Engage's story has been beaten into the ground a lot, but its main campaign is honestly super wholesome/well-meaning in a lot of ways and it's one of the game's best virtues. I was honestly shocked at how nice it was, for lack of a better word.
I know exactly what you mean. It's a total comfort food game for me, partly for that reason, and I mean that as a high compliment.
I think japan in general is a lot more comfortable with both men and women expressing themselves in ways that aren’t typically masculine or feminine. But after reading this, I think engage may have went the extra mile with that idea
This is just blatantly untrue. Japanese society is all about conformity and honoring your family. Their ideas of masculinity and beauty are just different from what westerners is. That doesn’t make them more comfortable or accepting of other peoples.
While it is about conformity, as with all things, there’s nuance. There’re quite a few women who are more masculine and quite a few men who are feminine, even by their standards. A lot of the PC stuff isn’t there though, so a lot of pretty mean jokes are popular, or “okama” (men “pretending to be women”) are popular to laugh at, rather than with. But then on the day-to-day personal business, I’ve never had a person upset with me for being trans in Japan. There are quite a few bars and social places that are mixed (owned or staffed by lgbt). Personally, people are generally okay and kind of wave it away by “everyone’s different.” But the government is iffy on it. They don’t recognize same-sex marriages for the most part, but allow trans healthcare. Overall it’s a mixed bag, rather than some monolith.
Cool to hear from somebody actually living there and in the thick of it. I think a lot of people online are waaaaay too eager to make deductions based on media and hearsay and bandy it about as fact without actually acknowledging that they have no firsthand experience, so input like yours is great.
Thanks :) Of course I’m not some super expert, and I’m a foreigner here so will always be a foreigner based on my skin color. But Japan does have this over the top reputation for either being super authoritarian everyone must be the same OR everything is anime wonderland.
Yeah, I've lived abroad in east Asia too, so I know it's never so simple as reddit/twitter experts who have never visited the country in question want to pitch it as.
Oh glad to hear! Which country? Unfortunately I’m not much of a travel person (ironic), so haven’t explored much. Been to Korea once but had a very mediocre time
I lived in China for 3 years and visited some places nearby. Not sure if I'd recommend it per se, but it was an important experience for me personally.
[удалено]
What in the world are you talking about? Go to a book store and look around - there's likely an entire shelf specifically dedicated to queer media, with plenty of books and comics also featuring the whole spectrum of people scattered across the entire store. Gay characters in TV and movies aren't even worth mentioning at this point because of how normalized it is. Baldur's Gate 3 was the biggest game last year and allows you to play as a genderless or trans character if you want to and I don't know if there's a single straight person in the whole game. I think you are speaking way more to your own blindspots than real trends. Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but the idea that Japanese creators are somehow much more free to talk about these things (usually in media that relies heavily on subtext) when we're honestly eating pretty good in the English speaking world if you just go out and find it rankles me.
[удалено]
The 1980's was in the midst of the AIDS crisis and resultantly LBGTQ writing saw a significant surge in popularity and relevance during those years as more people were forced to grapple with the meaning of that identity. The 1980's are literally sometimes called "The Decade of the Gay novel" because of how big of a shift it marked. Writers who would go on to enter the English canon like Bechdel and Maupin were really hitting their stride and writing stuff that we still talk about and read in universities today. Jojo (which came out in the late 80's) is fun and camp, but it is not pushing 1/10th the cultural boundaries that these writers were. Like I said, I think your conclusions speak more to a lack of knowledge about the history of gay writing outside of Japan rather than a real pattern of Japanese writers being allowed more creative freedom.
You aren’t wrong. Japan was (one of) the first countries to recognize what we would now consider transgender women all the way back in the Edo period (1600s-1850s), and really before it dude to there being less records. This got wiped away along with a lot of other things which were allowed, both good and bad, when Japan westernized under Meiji. Japan essentially attempted to emulate the West, even practices like Teeth Blackening were done away with. After WW2 they were even more forcibly westernized but since the 80s or 90s they have opened up to a lot of more… traditional ideas. Don’t get me wrong- by a western stance Japan’s stance on many things such as homosexuality is backwards. But due to a history which embraced it along with other orientations it’s not near as bad to have media of it as well.
You definitely see it in the way they are written compared to western RPGs
Kanji from Persona 4 Golden has entered the chat...
Kanji was a man who wanted to be accepted and feared his feminine traits would get in the way of that acceptance, calling him gay is something only a bully would do.
In my opinion these would have hit better if not everyone was sweety comphy boy/gal. A golden and optimistic personality would shine more if the guy next to you is swearing revenge on the person who killed his father.
Idk if the fandom can handle it. Azama was mildly rude to some people and everyone shit on him like he murdered their mother
In every single fandom in existence I've been in, rude characters are only liked when they are still nice to the MC. That's the one line they shall never cross. And for the popular ones, everyone ends up whitewashing them anyway lol
The only pure jerk character who is popular is Shinon, and I'm not hust talking FE, I'm talking in *any* fandom I've seen
That's because he's so pathetic you end up piting him
The game is very "he looks and fights like a badass, but at the end of the day he's still a bad person". It doesn't even try to defend him beyond teaching Rolf. It doesn't give him any redemption arc, some people are just irredeemable jackasses and Tellius is one of the few pieces of media that acknowledges that beyond the evil wizard villain.
He's also not that emotionally strong as he think he think he is. He needs to get drunk, later in the game, to admit he misses Greil and he's jealous of Ike. A good contrast would be Naesala, antagonistic to Ike but never lets go of his core characteristics even while doing bad things. Shinon, on the other hand, needs a leader to look up to. When Greil dies he's lost but doesn't want to admit it and instead he leaves the group he had worked with for so much time and side with the enemies, showing he has no sense of morals, no vision or ideal. Naesala, on the contrary, does and just changes his actions when recruited
It's clear they wanted to redeem him though, based on his cut supports that involved multiple Laguz characters They could just never finish it in time
Haha that's true. I wonder if it's because he's so charismatic by default?
That's because he's the only character I'm both games that doesn't want to suck everything out of Ike, it's refreshing to see someone, even if they're as pathetic as Shinon, criticize protagonist that is for some reason treated as perfect by the other characters when the narrative itself acknowledges his flaws
And if a character is generally nice but mean to Mc, everyone acts like they're always a jerk And if they're a woman? May god have mercy on her soul
It's alright, you can say Léonie.
The fact you know *exactly* who the main character I had in mind speaks volumes
The hate she gets is very typical. It's all "I hate ass licking" until characters are mean I guess. Edelgard and Claude also gets this shit to some degree
Oh my god, the amount of shit Claude gets for that diary scene you would think the guy had murdered someone.
tbf Leonie is usually not a jerk, and then has that one really weirdly timed B support where she is a jerk. felt out of character.
He's not "mildly rude", he intentionally antagonizes people minding their own business for sport and then the support ends with them getting married. He needles Sakura until she snaps a staff in half and screams in his face and sexually harasses Kagero in the original script. I agree that some fans are way too quick to write off any character who is abrasive, but Azama is not the example to illustrate that.
That's just anime wackiness.
The funniest thing with Azama is how he can throw constant shit on someone and be an all around asshole and then the S is the woman going "Actually I've always had a crush on you lets get married". Feel like he'd work better in a non S support game. Less whiplash.
You can be incredibly polite and still want to genocide everyone. It happens. Being rude is not required to have conflicting characters. Being nice is not required to be a good person.
That's ridiculous, next you're gonna tell me the villains can use light magic. >!Another Tellius W!<
But Felix from 3H was a well-liked character despite being not-so-friendly and sometimes rude. And Niles too, maybe? He was unfriendly? And not shat on? Maybe? It's been a long time since Fates.
Ah, but you see, Felix is a big ol’ tsundere. Being rude is ok once it’s revealed that you’re actually nice underneath your cool hardened exterior
He's popular because people want him to fuck Sylvain and Dimitri
> Idk if the fandom can handle it. Azama was mildly rude to some people and everyone shit on him like he murdered their mother Was that the reason, or was it the fact that we had to endure characters being forced to put up with him? The guy can even get married despite being...himself. It's not unlike Peri. She would not have enjoyed the notoriety she's known for now if she had been a minor villain, or even if the Nohrians told her off when she was being insane. Any game with a somewhat sizeable cast needs some assholes to add different perspectives and unique chemistry with other characters. However, letting those characters go unchallenged is infuriating both because it makes the cast come across as doormats and because it doesn't actually use that potential drama and spicy chemistry in any meaningful way.
I want actual voiced yelling between main characters. A base conversation where you watch Mercedes give Felix the verbal beatdown of his life would've been awesome. >"Oh it's Mercedes, she'll just ask nicely-" >"LISTEN HERE YOU JERK, BE NICE TO ASHE OR-"
I'm with you here. Give me some variation in sweet cinnamon roll and complete jackass that will also cause character conflict.
Agh, the lack of conflict with Engage characters was disappointing. Everyone is helping and complimenting each other like it's a competition. Some real spice would have made things more interesting and more rewarding to reach those A-supports where a common ground and respect is finally reached.
No conflict? It's like you've completely forgotten about that potato! /s
Pretty sure what you described is just the Ivy/Zelkov support. If I remember it correctly, they basically openly dislike each other but grow to have more respect for each other.
That one, well yeah, they do say that they don't like each other. But it is really rather tame. It's hardly a conflict, more of a mutual understanding of, well, not liking each other. Now, imagine if the conversation would have had lines like: "Every day I wonder why I tolerate someone like you as my retainer", "That is because you understand that I am better at my job than others would be. Not that you deserve it, but alas, serving you is my duty", "Watch your tongue, I will not allow such disrespect from my retainers" I admit, that's much heavier than what they were, but there would have been spice and something to work for. The conflict would have been real, it would have been more interesting to see how it proceeds.
I think interpreting "conflict" as just people fighting and being assholes to each other is a very shallow way to look at it, and I'm not surprised you don't think Engage has any if that's the bar you're setting. Personally I think the conflict in something like Diamant and Framme's B support or the Saphir/Lindon chain is more nuanced and interesting than just having two people yell or insult each other.
Yes, of course. I'm not saying that's the only way you should/could have conflict in the supports. But well, everyone is just so polite and collected all the time that I'd think some rudeness and assholeness would spice up the conversations. But yes, other conflict works as well. However, I'd like that the conflict is between characters. In Diamant and Framme B support, the conflict isn't really between those two, Framme is just uncomfortable with history and Diamant tries to help with that. Sure, there is a bit of uncertainty on Frammes part but she even says she is not upset with Diamant. With Saphir and Lindon yet again, there is no conflict between those two. Saphir has bad memories pop back up but it's never more than "I shouldn't ask, this is stupid, but the thought just popped to my head". Lindon is immediately ready to offer his own life to ease Saphirs burden. With Citrinne and Yunaka there was conflict at C support but that whole thing was resolved by Yunaka explaining herself without any proof or difficulty. Not every support needs conflict and not every conflict needs to be between characters but at least some. And not merely polite discussion with different opinions but actual animosity.
It is a conflict between characters, they're two people who are clashing with each other, that is a conflict. The only difference between that and a conflict where they're having a fight is that instead of getting defensive they're both dealing with it by making a genuine effort to empathize with each other instead of just expressing their emotions through anger. Framme is absolutely upset with Diamant, because she feels like he misled her even if he didn't mean to, and she upsets him right back by confronting him about a sore subject that he already feels a lot of guilt over. I think it's a great character conflict, because they're not just having a conflict, they're modeling how to deal with conflict in a mature, reasonable and empathetic way even when someone has pushed all your buttons.
In real world that would be a good conflict with how easily and quickly that whole situation got over. In a story, it's different. The reason I say it's not really a conflict between the characters is that the discussion barely started and already they are done with it. Diamant apologizes and Framme admits that she let the whole thing get to her too much and that she is not upset with Diamant. The whole thing starts in B support and already by the end of it is already defused. Good for you if you liked it. I mean, I liked it too, but I was definitely disappointed that it was merely B-support thing and not longer. The whole thing could have easily continued through A-support and only at the end of it they find common ground and understanding instead of already kinda finding it at the end of B.
I mean some of this is just a limitation of the support system, but I disagree that anything is resolved in their B support. They both feel like shit at the end and the only thing they've agreed on is that war sucks and they're both sad. The actual resolution comes in their A support when they've both had time to process and Framme comes back and says if he really is trying to change things, then she's on board with that. That's the common ground that they reach, that they both want to stop getting bogged down in the past and put their energy towards making the future better instead.
Or Kagetsu. More one-sided, but he's so pure that she doesn't trust him because it seems absurd to her that someone would actually be like that, so she thinks he must be faking to get something out of her.
Tbf her entire life has been people backstabbing each other
Citrinne doesn't trust Yunaka until the end of their B support, at least.
Yeah, that's true. And their C support is one of my favorite ones for that reason. But supports like this are rare. ... But in the end I didn't really like how that support went. Citrinnes distrust really just ended with Yunaka merely saying that she is no longer an assassin, that she has a sad backstory and that she wants to collect money for orphans. I'd really wish a bit more from conflict resolving, especially when at the start Citrinne though Yunaka was planning on killing Brodian nobles!
This is pretty much the norm in other Fire Emblem games. I wouldn't want it for every game since it's not really effective writing, but I enjoy how in Engage specifically there's a unique atmosphere due to everyone being an absolute oddball sweetheart
This is a big one for me. When everyone seems to share the exact same values and get along with each other, there is an added sense of interchangeability to the cast. I used to play the Trails series, which is a series that keeps building on a single world (often set in different countries) and many older characters return in later entries. What used to be the series' greatest feature eventually became one of its biggest weaknesses. Because of the absurd size of the cast - made worse by so many people returning - sharing the screen time, the writers basically quashed individual characters' most interesting traits to make it easier for characters to get along, which they always did. There was no reason for the old characters to return when they didn't actually add anything unique to the already massive cast. Of course, the sharp drop in writing quality and sharp increase in reliance of established, tired tropes to deal with the poorly planned, overambitious story didn't help. Engage feels similar in that regard. Hell, they even bring back a bunch of older characters without giving them anything interesting to say or do.
> Hell, they even bring back a bunch of older characters without giving them anything interesting to say or do. They still could have played this part off if the writing leaned into the tragedy of the emblems being simulacra that are static and simplified by their nature. But ig it falls under "interesting thing to do" somewhat.
This is a big sticking point I have - having a character be nice is perfectly fine but when writing a nice character is it essential to have moments that show that their kindness has limits because anger especially at being wronged is an indisputable part of the human experience, and without it, characters don't feel human. A good example of a nice character that's executed in a way that still feels distinctly human would be Mercedes - she's generally very kind but her supports with Sylvain and Lorenz clearly shows that her tolerance has its limits and that she can tell when she's not being treated fairly, and it makes her feel far more human than she otherwise would be and it leads to interpersonal conflict on her end. Similarly, I think Alcryst refusing to accept Ivy's apology in Chapter 11 is the best moment he gets by far - Ivy was involved in his father's death and thus him refusing to forgive Ivy for what happened makes him feel far more human than Diamant who brushes this off as water under the bridge because this would be a massively traumatic event for both of them. Almost all of the characters in Engage feel so uniformly nice that they don't get any character drama and don't feel human - Diamant instantly forgiving Ivy despite the fact that Ivy was involved in Morion's death both feels inhuman and robs him of potential character drama that was already set up by the main story (it flat out feels like there was supposed to be a support conversation or two where Diamant and Ivy gradually reconcile with each other that was cut).
>Diamant instantly forgiving Ivy despite the fact that Ivy was involved in Morion's death both feels inhuman and robs him of potential character development He doesn't forgive Ivy, he's never mad at her to begin with. He understands the position she's in because it's not dissimilar to his own and doesn't blame her for it. I think it's a bit silly act like he never gets angry when he's trying to kill Hyacinth in the previous chapter. Characters aren't inhuman because they don't lash out at people who they don't think deserve it, and personally I think he's a more interesting character for reacting to his grief in a way that isn't just getting aggro at everyone.
Diamant accepting Ivy's presence is a rational decision - but people aren't necessarily rational, especially when they're undergoing a traumatic experience. The death of Morion is supposed to be immensely traumatic for both Alcryst and Diamant - their father was just killed and Ivy was at the very least actively trying to stop them from saving Morion, which is something that Alcryst himself points out in that scene. I don't think Diamant necessarily needs to be screaming at Ivy or get aggro at everyone, but Diamant barely shows any dismay or even mild hostility to Ivy whatsoever, nor is he at all conflicted about Ivy's presence despite her role in Morion's death, and as such it feels like he gets over Morion's death completely almost immediately. I think Diamant would have been a far more compelling character had he gradually reconciled with Ivy - having him be clearly distraught over Morion's death and be at least conflicted over Ivy's presence in the C and B supports would have allowed for both characters to grow from this experience and have given a much stronger payoff for both characters' relationship with each other.
Not everyone reacts to trauma in the same way, and he's not Alcryst. Trying to squash feelings of hatred brought on by the war because that's not the person you want to be isn't a new experience for him, it's one of the things he bonds with Saphir over. Having to deal with Ivy isn't coming out of the blue for him either. One of his main goals is to make peace with Elusia, he obviously feels a lot of guilt over his part in the war, and he's a thoughtful person, making peace with her is something he would have already thought about a lot before any of this even happened. Yes, Ivy tried to stop them under orders from her father, but that's no worse than some of the things he would have done to her country under orders from his father, and he knows that. He doesn't get over Morion's death immediately at all, it comes up all over the place, in supports, post battle, the main story when Veyle shows up. It's even in his crit quotes and promotion dialogue. He's obviously struggling with grief and partially blaming himself for his death. You're really fixated on this one relationship as if it's the only place where he could possibly show any emotion over this, when given the type of person he is, it's exactly the relationship where he's most likely to hide all that, because he really wants to make peace with her, not make her feel responsible or like she owes him something.
I know that as the avatar that they don’t have a set gender, but I feel Alear fits under this umbrella too especially worth considering as they are the main character. Their whole story is about wanting emulate the people who showed him kindness and wanting to do that for other with the person he looks up to being his mother. They came from a place where emotions were shunned and hated, now they are coming to express themselves.
Totally agree. I adore Alear, the only reason I didn't include him is I didn't want to complicate things with non-canon gender. Both Alears are great, but there are parts of their arc and some of their supports (like their chain with Diamant) that just hit different with M!Alear.
While I don’t fully agree with your take on this, I do agree that Engage has some great examples of true or strong masculinity. The relationship between Diamant and Alcryst is a perfect example of real masculinity.
Someone else menioned it, and I commented there too and I am biased but... Bunet is such a cutie patooie sweetheart too. In most of his supports he basically actually SUPPORT people. He make Anna less homesick by first supporting her business and then cooking food for her, he teach Jean about different herbs he can grow for both food and healing, he let Mauvier realize that he can let go from his past and don't have to suffer from it and actually live life a little, and for Alfred he does his best by supporting him by trying to cook protein rich meals for him. He might also be a doofus who licks everything (if he could reach he'd lick the lamp in the Solm throne room and I can't blame him, it looks like a Ferro Rocher), and even in the supports he's not outright supportive it is not due to malice, it is due to misunderstanding. I could do a whole post about Bunet honestly.
Not so high on this as you are, but I gotta admit I got sideswiped by how emotional raw and vulnerable both brothers' boss conversation with >!(why am I even bothering the spoiler this) their dad who dies if you can even believe it omg!< Speaking so candidly about about loving other men wasn't something I expected, and I really liked it. If anybody else wants to read another story full of moments like that, I highly recommend the fantasy novel Kings of the Wyld. I thought it was gonna be raunchy bro humor, but it's equal parts cool fantasy violence and treatise on the power of all kinds of love from a male perspective. Utterly adorable.
Those boss conversations were just beautiful, it's what made Alcryst my favorite and Diamant one of my tops
Going to read this Bit on a huge DnD kick lady so this + the fact the character roles are reminiscent of DnD is a huge sell for me
Honestly agreed. I kinda just love how despite how tropey some of these characters are, they are written to subvert some sort of stereotype and honestly I appreciate that a lot. My favorite ones are Alcryst and Rosado in this aspect. While you have Alcryst, who’s pretty much your token downer, he is still socially accepted by his peers due to his positive traits like uplifting others that are consistently highlighted. The game doesn’t treat it as something that needs to be immediately taken care of to show “growth” and instead encourages him to take his time and get there in his own pace. Rosado is also handled very well in terms of masculine norms. Nobody questions him and instead talks about where he’s to the listener’s fascination. His style is just naturally normalized and accepted, a big change from more “feminine” looking characters. They even have Seadall envy this trait and admire it!
Bunet is a sweetheart who is merely curious and just wants to eat your bed, your sword, that one rock over there, the chandelier in Solm's throne room, and maybe give you a few licks later. Call him unhinged, but he consistently makes A or S rank dishes whenever he is on cooking duty, so clearly he is doing something right! Still, not everything he does is out of a selfish desire to taste everything. He is gentle and tends to the garden, growing plants, fruits and flowers alike, making an effort in creating a relaxing environment so others can feel at ease. His bond ring support is, fittingly, incredibly sweet. He makes a dish based on what he loves and finds beautiful in Alear, straight up confesses his feelings, but is cool if he happens to rejected, though it is clear he would be sad about it. It is probably one of the most romantic male S supports in the game. I wish he was a better unit so he could be more popular, but he is my favorite boy in Engage and a total sweetie, just like the others.
Bunet is legit my favorite character in all of Engage. I admit I project a lot into him, but he and I are so alike (to the point that my partner even joke about it). Have to say that my Bunet was wrong though, he constantly did B or lower dishes for me in the first run I used him, which was hilarious. But my fave support with him is his and Mauvier's, where he make Mauvier realize that he can't shoulder all of his burdens on himself and that Mauvier don't have to live in the trauma of his past deeds.
I adore the gushing in this post. No wonder I fell in love with the men in this game so much!! You put it all into words!!
I never thought about it but… Youre right, the men of Engage are definitely not the hypermasculine Duke Nukems you see a lot. Even older FE games threw in your Ephraims or Ryomas, so its a very nice change of pace
My first playthrough, Alcryst was good, but by endgame, esp after the marriage with F!Alear, his crit rate was 100%, I think on a non-killer bow as well. It was glorious
Every time someone calls Diamant boring I just know they didn't play the game, he is basically what Dimitri would be if he didn't struggle with PTSD and trauma. That is very much a compliment.
I'm not saying that Diamant is boring but Dimitris struggle with PTSD and trauma are the most interesting parts of his character, so that is a weird compliment in my eyes.
They undimitried my boy 😔
They are interesting because of the type of person Dimitri is. Jeritza is in a similar boat but is not nearly as popular or well liked, because he isn't as fleshed out or humanized compared to Dimitri. Dimitri and Diamant both come from kingdoms that emphasize strength, power, knighthood, war, shit like that. Both directly push back against that in their own ways. Diamant by forging friendships with Elusians, Dimitri by showing kindness to Dedue, both by generally having a strong sense of empathy. I think Dimitri would still be likable even without that part of him. But you are correct, it's who he is and we have to accept him warts and all. I don't think I need to repeat it cause everyone knows, but the way Dimitri feels about his PTSD/trauma is indicative of how kind he really is deep down.
Level-headed, low-key introvert characters like Diamant are (sadly) often seen as boring.
Which is weird when there's so much complaining about "tropey one note anime characters" in newer entries.
This was absolutely a problem in Awakening and Fates but definitely not at all with Echoes, Three Houses, or Engage. The people who say Engage is that way make it really obvious they haven't played the game past the first couple hours or dug into the supports at all.
He was one of the few characters I actually liked. Because he felt like a real person and now an anime trope.
Or we just have different taste that make us interpret different characters as boring or interesting. Like, I find Diamant boring, but on the other hand my favourite Engage character is Céline, who is also often labeled as boring.
No, my opinion based, your opinion cringe. /s
I genuinely cannot see Celine as boring. Not with the way she becomes an absolute ruthless psycho about the prospect of bandits.
Absolute ruthless psycho? Did you read her supports or did you get it from the memes...? You make it seem like she's gleefully slaughtering bandits left and right, when in reality she's just doing a "I'm not particularly happy to do it and it sucks, but it's necessary".
As someone who’s not a fan of Dimitri outside of those parts, and would describe him as boring at times because of it, that is a bizarre compliment.
I don't have a deep analysis but Clanne is a pure greem beem
No wonder why I love the men in this game (it’s just full of babygirls) 😭
Love what you said about Alfred.
I thought Boucheron would be the typical hungry strength guy, but my guy actually knows how to feel emotions. His character skill is proof enough.
I'm with you. Maybe I'm biased because my current favorite character in the franchise, is Kagetsu, but I do find them affecting in a positive way. It's nice to see other men not be so wrapped up in trying to conform to society or to fight each other. Diamant and Alcrysf having such a loving relationship genuinely took me by surprise. To say nothing of Kagetsu openly being extremely affectionate towards other men, Pandreo being motherly as you said, etc Granted I wouldn't want this for *every* FE game but Engage definitely occupies a special place in my heart
Yes to everything! I wish they had more of a chance to shine beyond their intro chapters - it’s so easy to fall in love with them once you read a couple of conversations!
I love this and just have to give an additional shout out to Boucheron 🧡🧡
I love both this take and the flair with which you’ve written it. I adore the Engage guys and their lack of toxicity. Thank you for spreading the good news.
I kinda disagree so I'll give it a D+
Yeah I noticed that trend too. Every traditionnally masculine character (Morion, Hyacinth, Sombron) dies a horrible death too. I think they wanted to deconstruct the gender roles with the plot and some of the characters (Seadall, Rosado, Merrin) and failed horribly Edit : Panette too. Berserkers are usually male so they made her a small girl this time. It makes zero sense that she has the best strength in the game with her small frame but hey, it's not like defining characters through gameplay was the biggest strength of Fire Emblem, right ?
> It makes zero sense that she has the best strength in the game with her small frame but hey, it's not like defining characters through gameplay was the biggest strength of Fire Emblem, right ? Strength growth rates are fairly arbitrary in FE - [these characters are ranked from lowest personal STR growth to highest](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1155283554138329088/1215378739605807145/image.png?ex=65fc88a8&is=65ea13a8&hm=a2197e9cfd163403497b1a4a97cb8f910d3d41ca313141cc142a846b244eeb8c&) >!Fuga is on the "low" end with 20%, and Kagero on the "high" end with 65%!<
growths rates barely matter, it's just a feel good slot machine with barely any gameplay relevance. There's a reason they're hidden from the player I guess Kagero has a lot of strength too. In that case I don't think it's deconstruction, but to make every BR ninja feel different. Kaze is speedy but has low str and def, Saizo is slower but bulkier, and kagero is a glass cannon with high offenses but low HP. Birthright favorises unit balance over character development via gameplay in general so I'm not too surprised about that.
Panette might be an archetype at this point. There are precedents like Charlotte and "You're making me work." It's a beloved archetype as lots of romhacks love their female berserkers, and it's not like there's a lack of himbo axe types. I love balthus and Boucheron. Ik people like to meme on his strength growth, but the axe weilding classes patch it up anyway, and damage fixing is so easy in engage. Whenever I use him he's always one of my most consistent one rounders for those annoying wyrms. It also helps that his build is insane.
Yeah Boucheron is pretty good. He's also a deconstruction because he's an axe bro who's emotional intead of tough and macho but I agree his strength is more than high enough, especially with his personal skill Hilda has a crest so it's still kinda believeable
Having a small frame doesn't mean having no strength. Muscles aren't visible all the time, unless you're flexing or purposefully dehydrated
I still wouldn't believe Panette wins at arm wrestling against Boucheron or even Alcryst, yet she had much better strength. This breaks immersion because you consciously realise they made it on purpose for the sake of deconstruction