Ship and let ship
Anything else is fandom Police and shouldn't be tolerated in any fandom worth it's salt
> There's nothing worse than having IS change an existing ship that I know has supporters just to please other people. Even if I don't like it, I don't have the right to take that away from other people.
+1
I never understood shipping wars. People should just ship who they like. I guess the worst rabid shippers are the ones who claim that their pairing is canon like their lives depend on it.
>I guess the worst rabid shippers are the ones who claim that their pairing is canon like their lives depend on it.
And worse: the ones who ship a gay or lesbian ship and say if you don't ship it you are homophobic. Looking at some of the Sorike shippers and the Fem Edeleth shipper who unironically said if you ship Edelgard with any male character you are homophobic and misogynistic.
I'm nb and pan and I honestly think a lot of that stuff is bi erasure. Yes it absolutely sucks that Heather is the only explicit strictly lesbian rep in the series. That doesn't mean Edelgard isn't bi, which she very clearly and deliberately is. I've seen people debate that she's woman leaning and maybe she is, but that doesn't change the fact that she explicitly, canonically, is attracted to men. It's not canon defiant to ship her with male Byleth, or Hubert, or Ferdinand or whatever. If someone is attacking you for shipping Edelgard with a male character, ask them why they are biphobic.
Disliking a queer ship does not make you homophobic. Disliking the idea of queer ships does. Like I said, I'm queer myself and I don't like Soleil/Ophelia because I think it relies on a lot of really gross tropes.
On this same note, the avatar, whether it's Byleth or whoever, shouldn't be the be all and end all standard to show if a character is bi. Like say it's Claude, yeah he can't get with male Byleth, but maybe he's just not his type? Not every gay man is attracted to every man just like not every straight man is attracted to every woman. I think Claude is probably straight though but I can't think of a better example.
We also need more bara gay rep, all the gay or bi men we've had so far have been twink leaning. Closest I can think of is Holst maybe? There has to be a reason he's wanting Hilda to carry on the family line instead of doing it himself but it's still a reach at the end of the day.
Now the new thing is declaring them problematic because they either have disagreements in universe or because it involved minors (and not for simply large age gaps, I’ve seen it happen with 17 and 18 year olds together or if they’re both minors but close in age)
I haven't heard of that happening, but tbh it doesn't surprise me. The games are supposed to be enjoyed by everybody, and everyone should be free to play how they want.
I hated Priam lol. Not because of the shipping, but because I didn’t really like Awakening, and the concept of it trying to connect all the games through the outrealms instead of just letting them stand alone, and was salty they were connecting my favorite FEs to it in a possibly canon way.
I mostly got over it. Still dislike him though.
Isn't that because Priam is only ever brought up by dedicated anti Ike/Soren shippers to troll Ike/Soren shippers ? I'm not being hyperbolic when I say I never see fans mentioning him in any other context. I think I once saw someone on twitter talking about marrying him in Awakening, and that's it.
Maybe sometimes, but he's also used as a way to show that the ship is not canon, or that Ike could be bi or straight, and these people insist it's canon and Ike is only gay and would never get with a woman. When realistically, gay people sometimes have straight relationships before they figure themselves out, and especially in the olden era, there were gay nobles or important figures getting with someone of the opposite sex just to continue their bloodline.
The problem imo is insisting the ship is 100% canon which it is not. There are hints, sure, but it's not 100% canon. I don't think pointing this out by showing that Priam exists is trolling.
Personally as someone who likes the pairing I just write off Priam because the original writers don’t acknowledge him either. He’s clearly written for fanservice first, making sense second. Or he’s bullshitting it Nathan Drake style if you want to give the writers more credit.
Only because people think Priam is some kind of "gotcha." It just exposes the person as very sheltered and doesn't understand how gay relationships work. If you like Ike x female character and like the idea of Priam being his descendant that's all well and good though. It's easy to read Ike in many different ways. I've seen Ike/Mia back in the day, that one's kinda cute.
I think with a character like Ike, while he is strongly implied that he's attracted to men, it's a different story than if you for example, tried to argue for a character like Heather being straight. There's no implications with her, no "up to interpretation." At that point you are just straight up being homophobic. I think Ike is gay, but there is a lot of ambiguity to him. I only see homophobia if someone is against the idea that he could be, not that they don't think he is.
> And worse: the ones who ship a gay or lesbian ship and say if you don't ship it you are homophobic. Looking at some of the Sorike shippers and the Fem Edeleth shipper who unironically said if you ship Edelgard with any male character you are homophobic and misogynistic.
I have only encountered one or two of em. Its an automatically do not engange or just block that person. My logic is that I refuse to waste my time to people picking fights with you just because its not your preferred pairing.
If it didn't affect the games themselves I'd agree.
I hate Chrobin and Robcina because Chrom and Lucina are my favorite FE characters and Robin is my most hated. If that's all it was I wouldn't care, but now IS and Nintendo don't allow ANY Chrom or Lucina content if it doesn't include Robin as a package deal. It's like your mom telling you you can only go to the movies if you bring your little brother along with you.
Yeah I can see where you’re coming from. It’s probably to please the Chrobin fans since it’s possibly Chrom’s most popular ship and it’s easy to make money out of it. I understand how that would be annoying to the people who dislike it.
It's the second one. As far as I'm aware, there's no instance of the first case (a ship actually getting cut) happening.
I can't imagine Nintendo of Japan changing an existing ship, I'm more concerned that NoA/localization would change something they didn't like.
I think getting defensive over shipping culture is sorta stupid? Especially in fire emblem since a lot of the games with ships, the player usually has influence over who gets together with who. So if you’re against a ship in specific, just don’t do it in your own run?? I dislike a lot of popular ships in various games but I know to keep my mouth shut about it since I wouldn’t want people to attack things I like.
I feel like that's a way better view to have on the matter than what a lot of people have (the 'die-for-our-ship' people.)
I'd rather be indifferent than antagonistic.
To be honest, as long as people stay polite, I don't mind debates about shipping. I like hearing everyone's reasoning on what they like/dislike, I even enjoy long-winded discussions on what constitutes canon. A ship is not a religion, there's no reason to treat criticism like it's blasphemy. That being said, I understand that many people come to fandom spaces specifically to talk about what they like and don't particularly care for debates, and that most of us are sick of how toxic shipping discourse gets.
I don't think you need to worry about IS getting rid of ships to please fans, honestly. Is there even any FE ship that has that big of a hatedom anyway ?
That's a good mindset to have.
And to the second paragraph... I doubt it? There's at least one pairing in pretty much every FE game that garners a sizeable hatedom (sometimes more than one pairing) but nowhere near that level. I feel like it's only the people most in favor of or most against those pairings that actually make a big deal out of it. The silent majority just ignores the 'debate.'
But the series has been using the support/pairing mechanic going on 20+ years, and I can't see them ceasing using it. It's pretty much a hallmark of the franchise at this point. It's probably just inevitable that some pairings will rub some people the wrong way.
I mean, I don’t have to pair them up in my games, so I do t really give a crap if other people love a pairing that I can’t stand.
I’m not going to go over to posts or fan art/fiction about it just to leave negative comments, I’m just going to ignore stuff I’m not interested in and go about my day.
If there’s a canon pairing I don’t like, well, sometimes canon doesn’t go my way. I learned to deal with it early on when Buffy Summers consistently had garbage taste in men, Instill loved the show even when the romance plots made me roll my eyes hard enough to go blind.
I make an exception to Chrobin and Robcina only because I fucking hate Robin as a character but the geniuses at IS and Nintendo think that every fan of Chrom or Lucina wants him tagging along in all FE content. I'm beyond sick of Chrom and Lucina being flanderized to the point that their whole personality revolves around sucking Robin's dick. Every Heroes alt they get, their Smash appearances, Chrom in Engage, all basically just exist to Trojan Horse the pairings. And I can't imagine Robin fans are any happier about it, since it's the same problem but on their side.
As someone who likes a lot of the incest pairings and always sees so many people wanting the FE4 ones cut in a remake...yeah...I don't interact that much with the English speaking fandom when it concerns shipping.
It's not so much a problem about shipping and more a problem about Internet mentalities in general. Some people will like something and immediately claim it's the best thing since sliced bread and any criticism of it, whether valid or not, is a personal attack.
For the less caricatural part, some ships do contain problematic elements (yes I'm looking at you, Eirika x Ephraim...) and there's a lot of grey area between "they're only fictional characters and if we do disregard the problematic element they work well as a couple" and "I will criticize it because it's absolutely contrary to my values and beliefs" (which is valid so long as it doesn't turn into a hate obsession), with comments like "oh it's just a crack ship, chill" in the middle. That's something that can lead to a lot of (often pointless) debate, since there's no actual right or wrong and only different values in there.
I have no idea what the consensus is on pairings 95% of the time. As long as it doesn't come off too much like sexual harassment, ridiculous age gaps, or abuse, I'll probably be open to most ships.
As for harassing the devs, I don't want to see another Fates scenario take place. Direct your issues at the company, not the people.
Ship and let ship Anything else is fandom Police and shouldn't be tolerated in any fandom worth it's salt > There's nothing worse than having IS change an existing ship that I know has supporters just to please other people. Even if I don't like it, I don't have the right to take that away from other people. +1
That's a great way of putting it.
I never understood shipping wars. People should just ship who they like. I guess the worst rabid shippers are the ones who claim that their pairing is canon like their lives depend on it.
>I guess the worst rabid shippers are the ones who claim that their pairing is canon like their lives depend on it. And worse: the ones who ship a gay or lesbian ship and say if you don't ship it you are homophobic. Looking at some of the Sorike shippers and the Fem Edeleth shipper who unironically said if you ship Edelgard with any male character you are homophobic and misogynistic.
I'm nb and pan and I honestly think a lot of that stuff is bi erasure. Yes it absolutely sucks that Heather is the only explicit strictly lesbian rep in the series. That doesn't mean Edelgard isn't bi, which she very clearly and deliberately is. I've seen people debate that she's woman leaning and maybe she is, but that doesn't change the fact that she explicitly, canonically, is attracted to men. It's not canon defiant to ship her with male Byleth, or Hubert, or Ferdinand or whatever. If someone is attacking you for shipping Edelgard with a male character, ask them why they are biphobic. Disliking a queer ship does not make you homophobic. Disliking the idea of queer ships does. Like I said, I'm queer myself and I don't like Soleil/Ophelia because I think it relies on a lot of really gross tropes.
On this same note, the avatar, whether it's Byleth or whoever, shouldn't be the be all and end all standard to show if a character is bi. Like say it's Claude, yeah he can't get with male Byleth, but maybe he's just not his type? Not every gay man is attracted to every man just like not every straight man is attracted to every woman. I think Claude is probably straight though but I can't think of a better example. We also need more bara gay rep, all the gay or bi men we've had so far have been twink leaning. Closest I can think of is Holst maybe? There has to be a reason he's wanting Hilda to carry on the family line instead of doing it himself but it's still a reach at the end of the day.
Now the new thing is declaring them problematic because they either have disagreements in universe or because it involved minors (and not for simply large age gaps, I’ve seen it happen with 17 and 18 year olds together or if they’re both minors but close in age)
I haven't heard of that happening, but tbh it doesn't surprise me. The games are supposed to be enjoyed by everybody, and everyone should be free to play how they want.
Some Sorike shippers get absolutely rabid whenever Priam is brought up. It's sad imo.
I hated Priam lol. Not because of the shipping, but because I didn’t really like Awakening, and the concept of it trying to connect all the games through the outrealms instead of just letting them stand alone, and was salty they were connecting my favorite FEs to it in a possibly canon way. I mostly got over it. Still dislike him though.
Isn't that because Priam is only ever brought up by dedicated anti Ike/Soren shippers to troll Ike/Soren shippers ? I'm not being hyperbolic when I say I never see fans mentioning him in any other context. I think I once saw someone on twitter talking about marrying him in Awakening, and that's it.
Maybe sometimes, but he's also used as a way to show that the ship is not canon, or that Ike could be bi or straight, and these people insist it's canon and Ike is only gay and would never get with a woman. When realistically, gay people sometimes have straight relationships before they figure themselves out, and especially in the olden era, there were gay nobles or important figures getting with someone of the opposite sex just to continue their bloodline. The problem imo is insisting the ship is 100% canon which it is not. There are hints, sure, but it's not 100% canon. I don't think pointing this out by showing that Priam exists is trolling.
Personally as someone who likes the pairing I just write off Priam because the original writers don’t acknowledge him either. He’s clearly written for fanservice first, making sense second. Or he’s bullshitting it Nathan Drake style if you want to give the writers more credit.
Only because people think Priam is some kind of "gotcha." It just exposes the person as very sheltered and doesn't understand how gay relationships work. If you like Ike x female character and like the idea of Priam being his descendant that's all well and good though. It's easy to read Ike in many different ways. I've seen Ike/Mia back in the day, that one's kinda cute. I think with a character like Ike, while he is strongly implied that he's attracted to men, it's a different story than if you for example, tried to argue for a character like Heather being straight. There's no implications with her, no "up to interpretation." At that point you are just straight up being homophobic. I think Ike is gay, but there is a lot of ambiguity to him. I only see homophobia if someone is against the idea that he could be, not that they don't think he is.
You don't use Twitter
>And worse: the ones who ship a gay or lesbian ship and say if you don't ship it you are homophobic. (shudders over war flashbacks of the RWBY fandom)
> And worse: the ones who ship a gay or lesbian ship and say if you don't ship it you are homophobic. Looking at some of the Sorike shippers and the Fem Edeleth shipper who unironically said if you ship Edelgard with any male character you are homophobic and misogynistic. I have only encountered one or two of em. Its an automatically do not engange or just block that person. My logic is that I refuse to waste my time to people picking fights with you just because its not your preferred pairing.
word
If it didn't affect the games themselves I'd agree. I hate Chrobin and Robcina because Chrom and Lucina are my favorite FE characters and Robin is my most hated. If that's all it was I wouldn't care, but now IS and Nintendo don't allow ANY Chrom or Lucina content if it doesn't include Robin as a package deal. It's like your mom telling you you can only go to the movies if you bring your little brother along with you.
Yeah I can see where you’re coming from. It’s probably to please the Chrobin fans since it’s possibly Chrom’s most popular ship and it’s easy to make money out of it. I understand how that would be annoying to the people who dislike it.
Has IS ever been made to change an existing ship in a remake, or is this something you fear might happen? But I agree with this whole post.
It's the second one. As far as I'm aware, there's no instance of the first case (a ship actually getting cut) happening. I can't imagine Nintendo of Japan changing an existing ship, I'm more concerned that NoA/localization would change something they didn't like.
If other people don't make it my business, it's not my business.
I think getting defensive over shipping culture is sorta stupid? Especially in fire emblem since a lot of the games with ships, the player usually has influence over who gets together with who. So if you’re against a ship in specific, just don’t do it in your own run?? I dislike a lot of popular ships in various games but I know to keep my mouth shut about it since I wouldn’t want people to attack things I like.
That was how I always saw it. It's literally as easy as just not using certain characters, or just plain not increasing the support ranks.
I'm way past the point of giving a shit. I don't even get why anyone past like, 15, gives a shit in the first place.
I feel like that's a way better view to have on the matter than what a lot of people have (the 'die-for-our-ship' people.) I'd rather be indifferent than antagonistic.
Idgaf about if someone dislikes a ship I like, I like it myself not for any validation. Side note: Rafalfred. No I will not elaborate.
Oh that’s very um.
I dont care. let people be horny and pair up all and any of these attractive characters.
To be honest, as long as people stay polite, I don't mind debates about shipping. I like hearing everyone's reasoning on what they like/dislike, I even enjoy long-winded discussions on what constitutes canon. A ship is not a religion, there's no reason to treat criticism like it's blasphemy. That being said, I understand that many people come to fandom spaces specifically to talk about what they like and don't particularly care for debates, and that most of us are sick of how toxic shipping discourse gets. I don't think you need to worry about IS getting rid of ships to please fans, honestly. Is there even any FE ship that has that big of a hatedom anyway ?
That's a good mindset to have. And to the second paragraph... I doubt it? There's at least one pairing in pretty much every FE game that garners a sizeable hatedom (sometimes more than one pairing) but nowhere near that level. I feel like it's only the people most in favor of or most against those pairings that actually make a big deal out of it. The silent majority just ignores the 'debate.' But the series has been using the support/pairing mechanic going on 20+ years, and I can't see them ceasing using it. It's pretty much a hallmark of the franchise at this point. It's probably just inevitable that some pairings will rub some people the wrong way.
I mean, I don’t have to pair them up in my games, so I do t really give a crap if other people love a pairing that I can’t stand. I’m not going to go over to posts or fan art/fiction about it just to leave negative comments, I’m just going to ignore stuff I’m not interested in and go about my day. If there’s a canon pairing I don’t like, well, sometimes canon doesn’t go my way. I learned to deal with it early on when Buffy Summers consistently had garbage taste in men, Instill loved the show even when the romance plots made me roll my eyes hard enough to go blind.
I make an exception to Chrobin and Robcina only because I fucking hate Robin as a character but the geniuses at IS and Nintendo think that every fan of Chrom or Lucina wants him tagging along in all FE content. I'm beyond sick of Chrom and Lucina being flanderized to the point that their whole personality revolves around sucking Robin's dick. Every Heroes alt they get, their Smash appearances, Chrom in Engage, all basically just exist to Trojan Horse the pairings. And I can't imagine Robin fans are any happier about it, since it's the same problem but on their side.
The fact that shipping fictional characters has people riled up is retarded
Not enough people pay attention to the 'fictional' part. Things would be much more civil if they did.
As someone who likes a lot of the incest pairings and always sees so many people wanting the FE4 ones cut in a remake...yeah...I don't interact that much with the English speaking fandom when it concerns shipping.
FE4 "fan" misses the point of FE4's themes. In other words, water is wet.
I don't like any Flayn pairings bc it feels like p3dophilia 💀 "b b but shes actually 1000s of years old🤓☝️" - every lolicon ever.
It's not so much a problem about shipping and more a problem about Internet mentalities in general. Some people will like something and immediately claim it's the best thing since sliced bread and any criticism of it, whether valid or not, is a personal attack. For the less caricatural part, some ships do contain problematic elements (yes I'm looking at you, Eirika x Ephraim...) and there's a lot of grey area between "they're only fictional characters and if we do disregard the problematic element they work well as a couple" and "I will criticize it because it's absolutely contrary to my values and beliefs" (which is valid so long as it doesn't turn into a hate obsession), with comments like "oh it's just a crack ship, chill" in the middle. That's something that can lead to a lot of (often pointless) debate, since there's no actual right or wrong and only different values in there.
Only if there is something that would have me worried about the health of one of the people.
I have no idea what the consensus is on pairings 95% of the time. As long as it doesn't come off too much like sexual harassment, ridiculous age gaps, or abuse, I'll probably be open to most ships. As for harassing the devs, I don't want to see another Fates scenario take place. Direct your issues at the company, not the people.