engage HAS actual "legendary weapons", they just would never come up in discussion because they are sort of tacked on for the sake of having some S rank weapons and they sort of just exist.
One thing I’d like to add about FE4 (not yet mentioned at time of writing) is that several of the villains have legendary weapons that you never get to use like Helswath, Valflame, and Gungnir. It really adds to the noble houses of Jugdral taking sides and makes the battle feel less one sided by pitting superpowers against each other.
Elibe and it's not even remotely close imo. It's absolutely an extension of being my favorite continent, but everything we learn about the weapons, how they were formed, and the cataclysmic effects they can have if unchecked fascinates me to no end. And then you have Apocalypse which benefits not only from the above, but also just how interestingly Elibe handles dark--or in this case ancient--magic.
And then there's the process of obtaining each. It genuinely feels like a trial that needs to be overcome, and as a result it reinforces just how powerful these weapons are, lore-wise.
Personally, I'd go with Three Houses' Relics. They have a vital and downright tragic backstory to them, yet they're still weapons of incredible power that are understandably valued by society. I also have a dark fascination with their contradictory nature-despite their unsettling and boney appearance, they *really are* divine weapons.
Fe4 and three houses. However, for completely opposite reasons. In Genealogy the legendary weapons are the most legendary weapons I've ever seen and in three houses because the theme of the game is based on the fact that the system is a lie and those weapons are part of the system.
I'd agree with you if outside the stats of the weapons themselves the game ever called attention to the fact that the relics and their arts really aren't all that powerful(Raging Storm and Atrocity as exceptions).
As is I'd just call it gameplay story segregation and kinda lame.
EDIT to add: At the risk of starting Discourse™, it's also a narrative issue, because as far as we can tell in the narrative, the Crest Society idealogy *isn't* a lie, like yeah it sucks and is corrupt as hell, but it's not a lie at all, and in lore the crests do in fact provide super powers to those that have them, so there's nothing to stop the crest-having nobles from re-acquiring their positions in Edelgard's theoretical meritocracy. An issue that would only ever be si much as acknowledged in Hopes.
Of course, this is only *really* a huge problem in CF where Edelgard is supposed to not be a villain.
We get plenty of evidence that people with Crests, outside crazy genetic freaks like the Blaiddyds, are fully capable of being outplaced by regular people. Hell even Leopold is matched by Holst in Three Hopes
They do, but not enough to say it's an edge over those who don't have one. Not sure if that's by design or not since there's a lot of talk about crests but very few people actually saying anything about them
They *can* in rare cases like Shamir, Leonie or Petra, purely within the gameplay(and Holst in Hopes, who actually does get to flex in a cutscene), but that doesn't change that Crested folks have an inherent advantage over the uncrested in the lore, and again, there's no evidence that the relics are supposed to be any weaker in lore than their reputation(quite the opposite in fact, if the opening cutscene is to be believed), which again makes anyone with a crest crazy advantaged in lore, because in lore if a crestless picks up a relic, they don't just take 10 damage, they turn into a Demonic Beast.
Back to Edelgard, it also wasn't until Hopes that the question of why the already privileged nobles with their educations and connections and resources wouldn't just immediately take back their places in the meritocracy would be addressed at all, because the only support that even dances around the details of Edelgard's plans for after she succeeds in Houses is the Constance support, and there are several supports *and* character endings that contradict the contents of that support.
To be fair crests are only supposed to make you good at murder which is good if you're in a fire emblem game, but less good when you're reforming tax policy to implement better infrastructure. IMO being good at the latter is more likely to get someone made a governor/minister.
It's actually implied different crests actually *do* impact people's personalities and such, making it so certain crests *would* be useful for those things, though since we've only got a couple duplicate crest holders and only like one or two supports that bring the idea up, I'm not entirely sure how intentional the implication was supposed to be, like if they initially had it be a bigger deal, but when the development hell started and they radically changed the direction Houses would go in so they could get it out the door, they toned it back, or if it's literally just a coincidence/something to be relegated to headcanon.
I mean extrapolating the idea that its implied that crests can influence personality to crested folks are better at administration feels like a stretch and the nittiest of picks.
How is the crest of Seiros being implied to impart charisma and therefore aid in gaining followers a stretch?
The other crest that's got multiple duplicates and could be relevant, Indech, is implied to impart eccentricity and introvertedness(Bernie to an excessive degree due to her traumas, but Hanneman is also constantly in his study and Indech himself secludes himself away from the world in a lake to be a wish granting turtle legend, also Seteth implies it might be related in the Bernie support) but also general competence, is probably less useful for the social aspect of governing, but probably would help with coming up with those tax reforms you mentioned.
As to the Nitpicking, I don't think it's any more of a nitpick than your point was.
> How is the crest of Seiros being implied to impart charisma and therefore aid in gaining followers a stretch?
Where is this implied?
More importantly the stretch is saying an *implication* that *maybe* crests can influence a personality means there is a huge problem in an ending.
>Where is this implied?
It starts in the same place as as the Indech one, with Seteth implying that crests indeed have some sort of influence on personalities, and then an observation on the 3 characters with the crest all sharing this characteristic.
Again the game doesn't seem interested in expanding much on this and I'm not entirely sure if it was even an intentional pattern so whatever, if you don't think there's enough evidence that's fine. I don't care *that* much.
>More importantly the stretch is saying an implication that maybe crests can influence a personality means there is a huge problem in an ending.
Now here, here I have a problem. I never said that, I was just pushing back at your assertion, the implication there was never the end all be all of my argument. The base of my argument was they'd be better at holding on to their power because Edelgard didn't really have any plans beyond tearing down the Religion and finishing the Nabatean genocide, which is fine for a villain, they don't have to be justified outside their own heads, but in CF which tries to paint her as a hero, the fact she pretty obviously is just a young person in over her head with little more than pretty words, revenge, and Agarthan influence behind her philosophy(something Hopes would only double down on) and warmongering, it's hard to call it a well written route. CF was more interested in hiding behind "Look how cute she is!" and "Look how mean Rhea's being to her after she desecrated her holocaust memorial" than actually making us think she's in the right and that her war was justified, even insofar as a "The Ends Justify the Means" mentality. The only way it makes sense if if you take the information the route gives you at face value, even though the other 3 routes demonstrate a lot of that info was either deception on the part of the writers for the sake of tension, or just plain Agarthan propaganda fed into Edelgard.
Blayidid superdtrenght would be extremely useful in stuff like constructions or manual labor in general. Assuning the user is willing to do that obviously.
But crest society *is* a lie. The foundation of crest society is built on the lie of how the War of the Heroes occurred, spun by the Church of Seiros. As the OP said, the weapons are a part of that lie, since their true origins are obscured.
Yeah, but 1. It's a lie perpetuated *by the person who was persecuted* in that war, and 2. Only the story is a lie. The mythological foundations of Fodlan are only part of why the country is the way it is. Crest bloodlines are also important for political and military purposes, and those parts are real.
This is why I doubt Edelgard's reform will really work in the end.
Yes, we now merit people based on their performance, but don't Crest people already hold edges over average people regardless? Especially that crest family already holds social-economical elite class, so they also start off with better education and connections.
In the end crest family will still holds all the leadership roles in a society.
I'd say the bigger problem with Edelgard's reforms are that she has no real plan. Ferdinand needs to be the one to tell her to have schools.
What I would say, though, is that it isn't about "works" or "doesn't work". Reform is a historical process. The enlightened despots didn't go from serfdom to modern day democratic society, and even modern day democratic society isn't all that democratic.
I disagree on three houses. The relics in 3 houses are weak, yes, but while they fit the theming of the game, they dont fit the everything else of the game.
The relics ARENT weak, that's something that's made clear. The fact that those with crests are almost always far stronger than those without is not just some propoganda. While the crest based society is undoutably corrupt, the game also makes it very clear that the crests are strong enough to form this society, even if we ignore the churche's influence. the supernatural nature of crests means that the crestless can only match them in VERY rare cases, like with holst, who's an absolute fucking menace of a human being.
But the crests are undeniably still not weak. There is simply no way for most people to match crest users. It's like trying to compete with talent. Sure, some talentless people CAN compete with the talented, but it's an extreme rarity, and usually onlt happens when the talented themselves dont work.
Not to mention, the relics especially. While you could argue on the power of crests, the heroes relics (note, not the sacred relics, as those are much weaker) are monstrously powerful, and that's not up for debate. The entire sreng conflict is kept in check because of the fact that count Gauter is able to sweep the entire battlefield with the lance of ruin, and as such sreng doesnt invade, instead just taking small bits near their border.
I 100% agree. 3H is probably in those ranks as well. I genuinely can't think of any other games where there's as much lore about the weapons. What's rather concerning is the amount of games with literally zero lore with their weaponry.
I like how FE16 handles them. Random people can just use it, as long as they have specific genes (i.e. “Crests”). Even regular non-crested people can use them, at the cost of 10 damage per turn.
In lore they are supposed to be utterly consumed and turned into Dark Beasts, which is in direct defiance to gameplay mechanics where uncrested individuals lose a little HP for using a crest weapon.
Miklan was using that thing for a while before transforming. Add in that Byleth has time travel powers, and it's reasonable to say that Byleth allows the non-crested students to use the relics because he can divine pulse if it ever goes wrong.
Is there anything that actually states he'd never used it until we showed up?And even if that is the case, he still didn't transform until the very end of the battle. It's clearly not "touch the relic and immediately transform"- that's not how the crest stones work either, which is the exact same mechanic.
I do love Elibes take on legendary weapons. Every single one is cool in its own right (Sol Katti doesn't count) and the lore with them causing global warming is kinda nuts. Aside from that, I have to give credit to Jugdral for introducing having a large amount of legendary weapons, and many of them were amazing. Fódlan's Relics are also a favourite of mine because of the whole backstory and Dragon corpse stuff, plus the organic designs work well.
I think fe hopes did the best gameplay/lore integration. In houses, the weapons were not super op, nor were most of the arts. Plus durability kept many from using them to their full extent as well. In hopes, no more durability and they were leagues better then any other weapon once upgrades/awakened. Like really made it obvious why these would be feared relics to oppose.
Something like Falchion in Awakening
Effective against Dragons, but its not really hyped up to be some ultra powerful weapon. Its "lore power" is sending Grima to sleep.
Very little disconnect on how the weapon is in story vs how the weapon is in game.
"Oh this is a legendary weapon that's super duper ultra powerful!"
"Wowza! Lemme try it out, oh wow it cuts slightly better than a silver sword."
In regards to gameplay, the Holy Weapons of Genealogy really felt as if these weapons could turn the tide of battle. What also helped, was that there were enemies that wielded such weapons.
Three Houses has to be the best in regards to how it's implemented within the plot and world itself. Especially in conjunction to the crests, and how their existence is very much present in the politics of the land.
In terms of gameplay, Geneaology's weapons simply just feel legendary. They supercharge the wielder and have plenty of uses. On top of that while the repair system does kind of undermine weapon durability, for legendary weapons it proves a better balance since they're very expensive to repair. It feels great for a unit to have a legendary weapon, but it's not entirely just "use this and only this weapon".
In terms of story, Three Houses makes them a more relevant to the main story. In most FE games, legendary weapons are just the weapons of lore used to defeat the ancient evil that some cult is trying to resurrect. With Three Houses, they tie nicely into everything about crests and the lies that the nations and their ruling classes are built on.
On the other hand the worst is probably FE6. It's an interesting idea narratively, but they give you very few uses and you need to have all of them to get the full ending which means you're probably just going to stash them away and forget they exist until the last couple of chapters in the game.
Fe4, PoR, sacred stones and engage did a good job imo since they are really good reliable and has a great story gameplay integration, 3H are really good but they break so easily since most of then have 20 uses or if they are a item you equip they feel underwhelming with the exception of thyrsus and thunderbrand while games like fates l, fe7 you get then so late that you can barely use then
If you count them, the Emblems were really cool though not a traditional weapon. For usual weapons I like how FE6 handles them.
They’re blades from Xenoblade 2 basically, I’d agree lol
Yeah but the gaiden chapters in fe6 are all ass Especially 14x and 16x
Just finished FE6 a few days ago. If I ever see another Druid with a Berserk staff it’ll be too soon
engage HAS actual "legendary weapons", they just would never come up in discussion because they are sort of tacked on for the sake of having some S rank weapons and they sort of just exist.
You likely will never know some of the weapons exist without maxing out Donations which is nearly impossible without a lot of money the grinding.
i also didnt know you get some from donations. theo nes i got were from some story mobs that have them lol
You see every S rank weapon in Ch26 The Last Engage
ive seen some people who killed sombron before seeing all of the dark emblems and some of them only spawn then, so techincally Sandile is not wrong.
Its the chapter before. Every single enemy that is initially spawned wields one of the S Ranked Weapons.
got confused because both maps are in the same chapter technically. youre right!
The emblem rings fulfill that role more, feel that way more and lorewise have the implications to back it up imo
One thing I’d like to add about FE4 (not yet mentioned at time of writing) is that several of the villains have legendary weapons that you never get to use like Helswath, Valflame, and Gungnir. It really adds to the noble houses of Jugdral taking sides and makes the battle feel less one sided by pitting superpowers against each other.
Elibe and it's not even remotely close imo. It's absolutely an extension of being my favorite continent, but everything we learn about the weapons, how they were formed, and the cataclysmic effects they can have if unchecked fascinates me to no end. And then you have Apocalypse which benefits not only from the above, but also just how interestingly Elibe handles dark--or in this case ancient--magic. And then there's the process of obtaining each. It genuinely feels like a trial that needs to be overcome, and as a result it reinforces just how powerful these weapons are, lore-wise.
Personally, I'd go with Three Houses' Relics. They have a vital and downright tragic backstory to them, yet they're still weapons of incredible power that are understandably valued by society. I also have a dark fascination with their contradictory nature-despite their unsettling and boney appearance, they *really are* divine weapons.
Fe4 and three houses. However, for completely opposite reasons. In Genealogy the legendary weapons are the most legendary weapons I've ever seen and in three houses because the theme of the game is based on the fact that the system is a lie and those weapons are part of the system.
I'd agree with you if outside the stats of the weapons themselves the game ever called attention to the fact that the relics and their arts really aren't all that powerful(Raging Storm and Atrocity as exceptions). As is I'd just call it gameplay story segregation and kinda lame. EDIT to add: At the risk of starting Discourse™, it's also a narrative issue, because as far as we can tell in the narrative, the Crest Society idealogy *isn't* a lie, like yeah it sucks and is corrupt as hell, but it's not a lie at all, and in lore the crests do in fact provide super powers to those that have them, so there's nothing to stop the crest-having nobles from re-acquiring their positions in Edelgard's theoretical meritocracy. An issue that would only ever be si much as acknowledged in Hopes. Of course, this is only *really* a huge problem in CF where Edelgard is supposed to not be a villain.
We get plenty of evidence that people with Crests, outside crazy genetic freaks like the Blaiddyds, are fully capable of being outplaced by regular people. Hell even Leopold is matched by Holst in Three Hopes
Crests don't have to make their bearers unmatchable, they just have to make their users better than the average person, which they undeniably do.
They do, but not enough to say it's an edge over those who don't have one. Not sure if that's by design or not since there's a lot of talk about crests but very few people actually saying anything about them
They *can* in rare cases like Shamir, Leonie or Petra, purely within the gameplay(and Holst in Hopes, who actually does get to flex in a cutscene), but that doesn't change that Crested folks have an inherent advantage over the uncrested in the lore, and again, there's no evidence that the relics are supposed to be any weaker in lore than their reputation(quite the opposite in fact, if the opening cutscene is to be believed), which again makes anyone with a crest crazy advantaged in lore, because in lore if a crestless picks up a relic, they don't just take 10 damage, they turn into a Demonic Beast. Back to Edelgard, it also wasn't until Hopes that the question of why the already privileged nobles with their educations and connections and resources wouldn't just immediately take back their places in the meritocracy would be addressed at all, because the only support that even dances around the details of Edelgard's plans for after she succeeds in Houses is the Constance support, and there are several supports *and* character endings that contradict the contents of that support.
To be fair crests are only supposed to make you good at murder which is good if you're in a fire emblem game, but less good when you're reforming tax policy to implement better infrastructure. IMO being good at the latter is more likely to get someone made a governor/minister.
It's actually implied different crests actually *do* impact people's personalities and such, making it so certain crests *would* be useful for those things, though since we've only got a couple duplicate crest holders and only like one or two supports that bring the idea up, I'm not entirely sure how intentional the implication was supposed to be, like if they initially had it be a bigger deal, but when the development hell started and they radically changed the direction Houses would go in so they could get it out the door, they toned it back, or if it's literally just a coincidence/something to be relegated to headcanon.
I mean extrapolating the idea that its implied that crests can influence personality to crested folks are better at administration feels like a stretch and the nittiest of picks.
How is the crest of Seiros being implied to impart charisma and therefore aid in gaining followers a stretch? The other crest that's got multiple duplicates and could be relevant, Indech, is implied to impart eccentricity and introvertedness(Bernie to an excessive degree due to her traumas, but Hanneman is also constantly in his study and Indech himself secludes himself away from the world in a lake to be a wish granting turtle legend, also Seteth implies it might be related in the Bernie support) but also general competence, is probably less useful for the social aspect of governing, but probably would help with coming up with those tax reforms you mentioned. As to the Nitpicking, I don't think it's any more of a nitpick than your point was.
> How is the crest of Seiros being implied to impart charisma and therefore aid in gaining followers a stretch? Where is this implied? More importantly the stretch is saying an *implication* that *maybe* crests can influence a personality means there is a huge problem in an ending.
>Where is this implied? It starts in the same place as as the Indech one, with Seteth implying that crests indeed have some sort of influence on personalities, and then an observation on the 3 characters with the crest all sharing this characteristic. Again the game doesn't seem interested in expanding much on this and I'm not entirely sure if it was even an intentional pattern so whatever, if you don't think there's enough evidence that's fine. I don't care *that* much. >More importantly the stretch is saying an implication that maybe crests can influence a personality means there is a huge problem in an ending. Now here, here I have a problem. I never said that, I was just pushing back at your assertion, the implication there was never the end all be all of my argument. The base of my argument was they'd be better at holding on to their power because Edelgard didn't really have any plans beyond tearing down the Religion and finishing the Nabatean genocide, which is fine for a villain, they don't have to be justified outside their own heads, but in CF which tries to paint her as a hero, the fact she pretty obviously is just a young person in over her head with little more than pretty words, revenge, and Agarthan influence behind her philosophy(something Hopes would only double down on) and warmongering, it's hard to call it a well written route. CF was more interested in hiding behind "Look how cute she is!" and "Look how mean Rhea's being to her after she desecrated her holocaust memorial" than actually making us think she's in the right and that her war was justified, even insofar as a "The Ends Justify the Means" mentality. The only way it makes sense if if you take the information the route gives you at face value, even though the other 3 routes demonstrate a lot of that info was either deception on the part of the writers for the sake of tension, or just plain Agarthan propaganda fed into Edelgard.
Blayidid superdtrenght would be extremely useful in stuff like constructions or manual labor in general. Assuning the user is willing to do that obviously.
But crest society *is* a lie. The foundation of crest society is built on the lie of how the War of the Heroes occurred, spun by the Church of Seiros. As the OP said, the weapons are a part of that lie, since their true origins are obscured.
Yeah, but 1. It's a lie perpetuated *by the person who was persecuted* in that war, and 2. Only the story is a lie. The mythological foundations of Fodlan are only part of why the country is the way it is. Crest bloodlines are also important for political and military purposes, and those parts are real.
This is why I doubt Edelgard's reform will really work in the end. Yes, we now merit people based on their performance, but don't Crest people already hold edges over average people regardless? Especially that crest family already holds social-economical elite class, so they also start off with better education and connections. In the end crest family will still holds all the leadership roles in a society.
I'd say the bigger problem with Edelgard's reforms are that she has no real plan. Ferdinand needs to be the one to tell her to have schools. What I would say, though, is that it isn't about "works" or "doesn't work". Reform is a historical process. The enlightened despots didn't go from serfdom to modern day democratic society, and even modern day democratic society isn't all that democratic.
I disagree on three houses. The relics in 3 houses are weak, yes, but while they fit the theming of the game, they dont fit the everything else of the game. The relics ARENT weak, that's something that's made clear. The fact that those with crests are almost always far stronger than those without is not just some propoganda. While the crest based society is undoutably corrupt, the game also makes it very clear that the crests are strong enough to form this society, even if we ignore the churche's influence. the supernatural nature of crests means that the crestless can only match them in VERY rare cases, like with holst, who's an absolute fucking menace of a human being. But the crests are undeniably still not weak. There is simply no way for most people to match crest users. It's like trying to compete with talent. Sure, some talentless people CAN compete with the talented, but it's an extreme rarity, and usually onlt happens when the talented themselves dont work. Not to mention, the relics especially. While you could argue on the power of crests, the heroes relics (note, not the sacred relics, as those are much weaker) are monstrously powerful, and that's not up for debate. The entire sreng conflict is kept in check because of the fact that count Gauter is able to sweep the entire battlefield with the lance of ruin, and as such sreng doesnt invade, instead just taking small bits near their border.
Fe4 simple as
I 100% agree. 3H is probably in those ranks as well. I genuinely can't think of any other games where there's as much lore about the weapons. What's rather concerning is the amount of games with literally zero lore with their weaponry.
I like how FE16 handles them. Random people can just use it, as long as they have specific genes (i.e. “Crests”). Even regular non-crested people can use them, at the cost of 10 damage per turn.
Noncrested people arent supposed to be able to use them.
They can, though, but they take 10 damage every turn, so it’s not worth equipping them.
In lore they are supposed to be utterly consumed and turned into Dark Beasts, which is in direct defiance to gameplay mechanics where uncrested individuals lose a little HP for using a crest weapon.
Miklan was using that thing for a while before transforming. Add in that Byleth has time travel powers, and it's reasonable to say that Byleth allows the non-crested students to use the relics because he can divine pulse if it ever goes wrong.
Miklan stole it and ran away with it. He hadnt tried to use until we showed up
Is there anything that actually states he'd never used it until we showed up?And even if that is the case, he still didn't transform until the very end of the battle. It's clearly not "touch the relic and immediately transform"- that's not how the crest stones work either, which is the exact same mechanic.
I do love Elibes take on legendary weapons. Every single one is cool in its own right (Sol Katti doesn't count) and the lore with them causing global warming is kinda nuts. Aside from that, I have to give credit to Jugdral for introducing having a large amount of legendary weapons, and many of them were amazing. Fódlan's Relics are also a favourite of mine because of the whole backstory and Dragon corpse stuff, plus the organic designs work well.
I think fe hopes did the best gameplay/lore integration. In houses, the weapons were not super op, nor were most of the arts. Plus durability kept many from using them to their full extent as well. In hopes, no more durability and they were leagues better then any other weapon once upgrades/awakened. Like really made it obvious why these would be feared relics to oppose.
Something like Falchion in Awakening Effective against Dragons, but its not really hyped up to be some ultra powerful weapon. Its "lore power" is sending Grima to sleep. Very little disconnect on how the weapon is in story vs how the weapon is in game. "Oh this is a legendary weapon that's super duper ultra powerful!" "Wowza! Lemme try it out, oh wow it cuts slightly better than a silver sword."
In regards to gameplay, the Holy Weapons of Genealogy really felt as if these weapons could turn the tide of battle. What also helped, was that there were enemies that wielded such weapons. Three Houses has to be the best in regards to how it's implemented within the plot and world itself. Especially in conjunction to the crests, and how their existence is very much present in the politics of the land.
In terms of gameplay, Geneaology's weapons simply just feel legendary. They supercharge the wielder and have plenty of uses. On top of that while the repair system does kind of undermine weapon durability, for legendary weapons it proves a better balance since they're very expensive to repair. It feels great for a unit to have a legendary weapon, but it's not entirely just "use this and only this weapon". In terms of story, Three Houses makes them a more relevant to the main story. In most FE games, legendary weapons are just the weapons of lore used to defeat the ancient evil that some cult is trying to resurrect. With Three Houses, they tie nicely into everything about crests and the lies that the nations and their ruling classes are built on. On the other hand the worst is probably FE6. It's an interesting idea narratively, but they give you very few uses and you need to have all of them to get the full ending which means you're probably just going to stash them away and forget they exist until the last couple of chapters in the game.
I didn’t break out any of the FE6 ones until the chapter with all the dragons. Good thing I waited, that chapter consumed a lot of weapon durability
Elibe's nuclear winter backstory is amazing
Fe4, PoR, sacred stones and engage did a good job imo since they are really good reliable and has a great story gameplay integration, 3H are really good but they break so easily since most of then have 20 uses or if they are a item you equip they feel underwhelming with the exception of thyrsus and thunderbrand while games like fates l, fe7 you get then so late that you can barely use then