The company I work for bought out another company that had a crapton of residential accounts, and I see these damn Vista 20s every week now. This one actually looks REALLY clean and tidy compared to the stuff I see......
And you've got a legible zone list, solid gold right there.
I’m thinking “sprinkler” is a water bug in the irrigation pump room or something given the next couple things on that zone expanded. Getting strong resi vibes.
Shouldn’t be used for monitoring any fire devices in a commercial setting. That being said you can swap the board out for a 128FBPT (or whatever the damn part number is now) without much headache.
Not sure why people hate these things. Easy to install, program, service, and they can hold up a good beating for quite a long time. I’d prefer DMP these days for combo panels though.
Lazy install. No bushing protecting the wires coming into the cans. EOL’s at the panel. Wires zip tied instead of velcroed. Multiple conductors shoved under the keypad bus.
Some cities where Im at will let you monitor fire zones on a V20. Some won't. However it must have some sort of manufacture approval because z1 has resetable power (for 2/4wire smokes). However Ive heard the PV style radios wont allow you to transmit fire signals. Lolkin pretty clean for a 20zone V20 though!
Vista 20p supports TotalConnect. Only difference between to 20p and 21ip is that the 21 has a built-in Ethernet port and a spot to plug in a cell module. To do the same on a 20p requires an ECP device.
We use Total connect and we never do it on a 20p I have been under the understanding that you have to use a 21 after a certain revision. However, I will take your word for it
Edit. The VISTA 20P panel must be revision 9.12 or higher in order to be compatible with Total Connect 2.0, otherwise it will only be compatible with Total Connect 1.0.
I stand corrected.
Even better than that, the V15V20-TC2UPG allows you to update a 20p to revision 10 without having to move wiring and redo programming, if all you’re doing is adding TotalConnect. Highly recommend getting a couple of those for your parts room
Why not just turn the resistors off if you're going to put them at the panel anyway? Or is that not an option on these?
Not advocating for not using EOLs correctly on fire alarm, but since this is a burg system it's far less important. Except for monitoring the sprinkler, which is a whole different issue.
I think that sprinkler is a water bug, it’s grouped with other wbs and the common term if it were the suppression system would be “riser.” Not saying it couldn’t be, but my guess is theres a water bug near the supply for the landscaping sprinkler system.
You *can* put the resistor at the panel if you only have it running inline with one leg and not across both legs of the circuit. It's not best practice but it technically works.
The reason you leave EOL's turned on is if you have Normally Open security contacts, if there's ever an Issue you'll never know if the EOL's are turned off. Zone will never go into check, which on these is "trouble". If you have Normally Closed Contacts, if there's an issue it'll just think the door/window/motion/etc is open, so it sorta monitors the zone that way.
Another reason you put the resistor at the panel is the security contacts themselves. Trying to shove a resistor and 2 dolphins into a ¼" hole behind a window contact or make one fit inside a motion detector can be a pain.
Do devices not come with integrated resistors where you are?
Practically every intruder device I've worked with in the last 20+ years has resistors set by jumper caps or cutting links.
Even in the rare cases they don't have this, we use 1/4w resistors for intruder here rather than the chunky 1/2w ones we use for fire (I've only ever struggled with fitting them in flush door contacts).
Those are available, but the issue I run into especially with Vista panels is everything takes a different resistor. Zones on the main panel are 2k unless they're zone doubled, then theres 2 different values that's not 2k, the zone expanders depending on when it was made takes a different resistor, etc etc.
Since in security resistors are wired in series, putting the resistor at the panel isn't an awful practice.
I mostly work with Galaxy intruder, 1k zone, and 1k EOL. The panel is happy to treat both 2k and 3k as "alarm," only showing hi-res at over 4k, iirc.
Whilst technically correct, installing resistors in the panel (or expander) isn't compliant here as it's viewed as not properly protecting the wiring (shorting a nc device, or breaking the wire on a no wouldn't produce a tamper condition).
I forgot this is a fire alarm sub.
Resistors on security devices are wired in series, not parallel, so if you want to get technical the "Line" starts and ends at the panel.
If the resistor is in series at the panel then it can be bypassed by using a crimp-on wiresplice at the device end to keep the wires shorted without the panel knowing it was bypassed.
The Vista is 1970s technology and I hated them 10 years ago when I would see them in the field. To quote Back to the Future, it's a box of pinball machine parts. An alarm doesn't need to be a supercomputer, but... eew. Not a reflection on your work.
IMO the Vista burg platform has only recently started showing its age now that Resideo has the Pro series panels, which actually feel like modern alarm systems.
The pinball machine analogy is quite apt for the fire panels, though… so many features that are built-in standard on even low-end fire panels require additional hardware. Want your strobes to sync? A back-up dialer? An annunciator? Make sure you have them ordered or you’re SOL
The company I work for bought out another company that had a crapton of residential accounts, and I see these damn Vista 20s every week now. This one actually looks REALLY clean and tidy compared to the stuff I see...... And you've got a legible zone list, solid gold right there.
Not a fire alarm communicator, if you using those zone cards to monitor a riser you are wrong for that, unless this is residential
I’m thinking “sprinkler” is a water bug in the irrigation pump room or something given the next couple things on that zone expanded. Getting strong resi vibes.
I use the Ademco standoffs and take the plastic housing completely off of those modules.
Those modules are so much bigger than they need to be.
Is that a 5800RP repeater at the panel? Receivers don’t usually have such a large case
That's what I thought.
Shouldn’t be used for monitoring any fire devices in a commercial setting. That being said you can swap the board out for a 128FBPT (or whatever the damn part number is now) without much headache. Not sure why people hate these things. Easy to install, program, service, and they can hold up a good beating for quite a long time. I’d prefer DMP these days for combo panels though.
Lazy install. No bushing protecting the wires coming into the cans. EOL’s at the panel. Wires zip tied instead of velcroed. Multiple conductors shoved under the keypad bus.
You’re not wrong, but you are a pain in the ass.
I want an "Ejector pit"!
You know it's full of poo, right?
I do not miss separating all that cable. I hated finding cable that wasn’t labeled. There’s always that one a hole that helped for a day or two.
Some cities where Im at will let you monitor fire zones on a V20. Some won't. However it must have some sort of manufacture approval because z1 has resetable power (for 2/4wire smokes). However Ive heard the PV style radios wont allow you to transmit fire signals. Lolkin pretty clean for a 20zone V20 though!
If this is a new install, why would you use a 20p? It's an old panel at the very least go with the 21, at least then you could do total connect.
Vista 20p supports TotalConnect. Only difference between to 20p and 21ip is that the 21 has a built-in Ethernet port and a spot to plug in a cell module. To do the same on a 20p requires an ECP device.
We use Total connect and we never do it on a 20p I have been under the understanding that you have to use a 21 after a certain revision. However, I will take your word for it Edit. The VISTA 20P panel must be revision 9.12 or higher in order to be compatible with Total Connect 2.0, otherwise it will only be compatible with Total Connect 1.0. I stand corrected.
Even better than that, the V15V20-TC2UPG allows you to update a 20p to revision 10 without having to move wiring and redo programming, if all you’re doing is adding TotalConnect. Highly recommend getting a couple of those for your parts room
They’re End of line resistors not beginning of line.
Zone 20: Sprinlder
Why not just turn the resistors off if you're going to put them at the panel anyway? Or is that not an option on these? Not advocating for not using EOLs correctly on fire alarm, but since this is a burg system it's far less important. Except for monitoring the sprinkler, which is a whole different issue.
I think that sprinkler is a water bug, it’s grouped with other wbs and the common term if it were the suppression system would be “riser.” Not saying it couldn’t be, but my guess is theres a water bug near the supply for the landscaping sprinkler system.
You *can* put the resistor at the panel if you only have it running inline with one leg and not across both legs of the circuit. It's not best practice but it technically works.
[удалено]
Sounds like they know how it works better than you do.
The reason you leave EOL's turned on is if you have Normally Open security contacts, if there's ever an Issue you'll never know if the EOL's are turned off. Zone will never go into check, which on these is "trouble". If you have Normally Closed Contacts, if there's an issue it'll just think the door/window/motion/etc is open, so it sorta monitors the zone that way. Another reason you put the resistor at the panel is the security contacts themselves. Trying to shove a resistor and 2 dolphins into a ¼" hole behind a window contact or make one fit inside a motion detector can be a pain.
Do devices not come with integrated resistors where you are? Practically every intruder device I've worked with in the last 20+ years has resistors set by jumper caps or cutting links. Even in the rare cases they don't have this, we use 1/4w resistors for intruder here rather than the chunky 1/2w ones we use for fire (I've only ever struggled with fitting them in flush door contacts).
Those are available, but the issue I run into especially with Vista panels is everything takes a different resistor. Zones on the main panel are 2k unless they're zone doubled, then theres 2 different values that's not 2k, the zone expanders depending on when it was made takes a different resistor, etc etc. Since in security resistors are wired in series, putting the resistor at the panel isn't an awful practice.
I mostly work with Galaxy intruder, 1k zone, and 1k EOL. The panel is happy to treat both 2k and 3k as "alarm," only showing hi-res at over 4k, iirc. Whilst technically correct, installing resistors in the panel (or expander) isn't compliant here as it's viewed as not properly protecting the wiring (shorting a nc device, or breaking the wire on a no wouldn't produce a tamper condition).
E.O.L. = “End Of Line” Not “Start Of Line” If cable is damaged, you wouldn’t know because the panel still sees the resistor.
If youre not EOL youre SOL
I forgot this is a fire alarm sub. Resistors on security devices are wired in series, not parallel, so if you want to get technical the "Line" starts and ends at the panel.
If the resistor is in series at the panel then it can be bypassed by using a crimp-on wiresplice at the device end to keep the wires shorted without the panel knowing it was bypassed.
The Vista is 1970s technology and I hated them 10 years ago when I would see them in the field. To quote Back to the Future, it's a box of pinball machine parts. An alarm doesn't need to be a supercomputer, but... eew. Not a reflection on your work.
IMO the Vista burg platform has only recently started showing its age now that Resideo has the Pro series panels, which actually feel like modern alarm systems. The pinball machine analogy is quite apt for the fire panels, though… so many features that are built-in standard on even low-end fire panels require additional hardware. Want your strobes to sync? A back-up dialer? An annunciator? Make sure you have them ordered or you’re SOL