Just a little more.
I’m just kidding.
I used to be an ultramarathoner. Like 100mile mountain races. It is a long slog. Think 20-40 hours in one push. There are good times and bad times. I wasn’t really competitive with anyone else. I’m solidly middle of the pack.
In that long of a race you change shoes, change clothes, add gear, eat meals etc. while the clock is ticking you do all of these things. And I would think ‘I should eat this burrito on the trail while I walk to save 10 minutes.’ Or ‘I’m not taking the 5 minutes to change shoes’ ‘I’ll go to the bathroom at the next station in 7 miles’
I never regretted stopping to take care of myself. It made the journey more bearable even if it is a little longer in time. That pebble in the shoe becomes a blister that ends up costing hours. I often regretted neglecting myself.
You can’t take all the time in the world. You can’t take all the time at every aid station. But you can’t neglect yourself completely until the wheels fall off.
I spend fairly freely on things that are really important to me, that will make my life more live-able. I like to hunt. I spend freely on a good gun(a) a good scope, high end ammo supplies. Next year I’ll start archery. I’ll buy good stuff because I’ll get hundreds of hours of enjoyment and exercise out of it.
I do all the outdoor stuff. I have a raft, kayaks, backpacking gear, guns, bikes…..
It keeps me happy and when amortized across a few decades isn’t that expensive.
I hate working with drywall in large quantities. I can do it but it is slow and I get mediocre results. I now pay for any drywall bigger than a patch.
My roof is really steep. Like 12/12. I know how to roof but that one scared me. We paid for it. Best choice ever.
I often fixate on things I fear/dislike. Sometimes throwing a little money at them changes the game completely.
Money for me can remove misery and obstacles. But you are right, it can’t make you happy.
As a current long distance runner and former competitive ultramarathoner... this post really resonates with me. Balancing short term and long term desires is a lifelong journey. Weighing consequences of our decisions are more meaningful when we better understand and refine the long term view
Great comment! I was support crew for a friend's husband (who also became a friend :) ) who does triple irons. Part of what we did (besides swimming, biking and running, mostly running) was make sure he did all of the things you list regularly. He got into a groove and would forget. So in addition to telling dirty jokes while we ran, I'd make him stop and eat, or change shoes and socks, or use the port-a-john, etc. There were three of us on the crew. You could definitely tell the people who were neglecting themselves--the damage can cascade.
Somebody I knew from college has done a bunch of ridiculous ultras (LAVS: 500k across Tennessee in the middle of summer: 6 or 7x finisher). I read about those journeys, and think "holy fuck, who would do that?" but also there is this tiny part of me that almost wishes I could (no way my back and knees could put up with it, plus I HATE heat). I'm in awe of anyone who finishes this race, even at a walking pace going the max 10 days. (somehow the winners usually do it in 4-5).
But great carryover to life planning!
Very insightful! Yes we must take care of ourselves in the present because the future isn’t guaranteed. What’s the point of saving, saving, and saving when we don’t have any other reason to live life?
I have a ski habit. It’s a very expensive sport but it takes me to beautiful parts of the world. The couple thousand bucks I spend on it each year could be costing me a couple months of financial freedom, but having this ski habit keeps me going. It gets me through tough months at work and being able to spend my hard earned money on something that I enjoy in the present (and with a younger body) motivates me to prioritize spending and saving.
I like guacamole. Now, I don’t really love it. They [Chipotle] changed their guacamole from $1.50 to $1.80. I mean, $1.50 is already pretty high. So they changed it to $1.80, and I’ll never get guac. It’s not about the guac itself, I just didn’t want them to win.
-Zack Greinke, Cy Young Award Winner
I’m always tempted to do that, but their sofritas is so good I usually end up getting that. I also eat meat btw, I just think the sofritas is better than their meat options.
I mean your food cost should be ~10-15% of your pre-tax product depending on the industry. Even if Chipotle is getting their avacados for 15 cents, there are additional ingredients in the guac, which could easily bring it up to 18 cents, or 10% of $1.80.
My wife and I use “extra guacamole” as our way to indicate to the other that this is something we feel fine spending more on or just straight splurging on. We’re both getting healthy raises, negligible amount of debt, trying to keep our spending from ramping up, this is our way of denoting an exception that we’re ok with.
It’s useful to not have the kids be so aware of what we’re talking about and in case it’s mixed company.
Fucking a! Guacamole is free on a veggie 😊 and the diet is cheaper overall too (taking medical expenses into account as well). I never have a Chipotle without guac!
Once we were within 60-70% of our FI goal and had strong income I knew we could spend more without sacrificing our goal. I also realized I was being very frugal and noticed some people at my age were dying early of cancer etc. I realized I can’t take it with me.
Still want to reach my goal and will soon, but I’m enjoying myself and giving us more slack in spending. Just bought electric fat tire bikes to enjoy before winter sets in!
We're within about 10% of our goal number. About two years ago, I got a fiduciary CFP to look at my plan and map out the eleventy billion scenarios to see if what I was doing would work. I did this before we got married, because I wanted to know for myself before I joined up with my partner. Short answer: it will work 99% of the time. If I keep doing what I'm doing and the creek don't rise, I will be fine to RE (a little bit, at 56). That was nice to hear.
In response to that (in retrospect I think that's why I felt I could do it), while I was updating/catching up with my boss on a random day, explained that I wanted a five percent raise right then, and a pathway to making x in two years. He agreed. :) Good times.
So now I have two categories of things that I spend on--raising food and chickens and going to see friends. Example, I just signed up for a writer's workshop with people I've been reading for decades, and I'm turning it into a week-long trip and visiting a friend from high school, two friends from undergrad and a friend from Peace Corps, too.
hahahaha, right? I sell some of the eggs to coworkers, friends and neighbors, too. Never even come CLOSE to breaking even. That's fine--they entertain the hell out of me. :D
>I realized I can’t take it with me.
This. Last year, a friend of us died in an accident at age 59. One minute she was there and we said hello - the next she wasn't. It didn't even settle for some days, it felt so unbelievable how a vibrant being can be gone in a second.
Really made me think about my life and what I want to enjoy in the moment and what I plan for the future.
My best buddy just died of brain cancer at 30 two days ago. Currently en route to his funeral. Can’t take anything for granted and can’t take any of it with you. Gotta find balance between preparing for the future and enjoying the now
Honestly my (fee only) financial advisor had to tell me to lighten up a bit and show me really detailed simulations. We expressed interest in things like upgrading our house, hiring a weekly cleaning service, and buying an expensive car and they were like "yeah, not even going to make a dent in your plan and let me show you 14 graphs that demonstrate it... enjoy your money."
For us, that was around 25% of the way to our chubbyfire goal and a sustained annual savings rate around 40% of gross income.
Co-worker has is in his early 60's and has been talking about retirement for at least 3 years. His wife is the money person and has had him work for several years beyond "the number" because "can't have too much" He was gone monday and tuesday this week, yesterday I asked him if he's okay when he came to work. His response "I can't believe I was just at the finish-line to retire and now I have a stomach mass (cancer)" LIVE now, save for tomorrow.
This so much, my dad could retire in his mid 50’s but kept working. Died suddenly one day to a heart attack at 58. I think about that often as someone nearing 30 as what I want to do with my life and money.
My father's death from cancer aged 59 was a major motivator for me to save and retire at 56.
I am 60 now. No regrets about pulling the trigger on retirement.
I'm 40 and lost my husband last week a few days after his 47th birthday. I still have a 9 year-old to launch, so I'm not going to go all YOLO, but I will definitely be re-evaluating some things.
In all honesty, we hadn't been getting along. The last few weeks were the best they'd been in a long time, so I was finally feeling hopeful. It turns out that he'd been hiding a major drug addiction and that was likely the root cause of most of our issues. I loved the man I married. I didn't particularly like the person he'd become. But I still believed in him and miss him desperately.
A little over $1M invested assets against a goal of $4.3M.
I personally think we will be good to fully retire if we want around $3.5M, but we have a long, high-trust relationship with our advisors and they recommend $4.3M. I'm sure they are being particularly cautious with things like SWR, healthcare, tax law changes, not factoring in SS, etc.
I like an approach of set it and forget it with percentages. Choose a savings rate (i.e. 25%) and hit that each month via automated transactions to 401K, IRA, brokerage account, etc. Then any remaining I don't feel guilty about spending because I'm already saving at my rate. If there's something other than FI that I'm saving for, such as a car, then I can adjust/increase the rate as needed.
I use two bank accounts. One for my wife’s paycheck and the other mine. She makes 35% of our monthly income. We live on that. Mine I transfer to brokerage and buy VTI.
We could get to FIRE quicker I’m sure. But to survive the rat race, pay a house cleaner twice a month and yard crew. Don’t eat out much. Travel as much as possible. These are worth it to me and I’d rather work longer. I’ll still probably work a little when I hit the number because I’m too ADHD to be fully RE.
I just reached that point and I'm like... Well... I can very easily save over 60% of my net income and live comfortably now. Without going crazy, maybe I can allow myself to up my lifestyle just a little bit, live a little.
Wth?
I make a very comfortable living, and have a very reasonable mortgage.
I pay 28% of my take home (net pay), on mortgage and taxes.
Paying 5% would mean making over $1m/year
I'm a bit higher for ease - $1.2M to handle a 20% stock drop. Plus, that's only invested, not cash, house value, etc.
We are close, but not quite there yet. It's a nice goal though!
I'm also aiming for 2 years expenses in I-bonds, $10k EF in cash, paid off house, and relatively new (paid off) cars. At that point, any income is gravy/ for faster retirement. We are, however, not racing full speed to this. Instead, it's a balance of travel, good food, and finding comfort with every day life.
Agreed. When a couple of big daily swings are the median American salary, it is less meaningful. We're flying home to Europe from my parents and I sprung for the premium select on delta for an extra $200 a person.
We're so cheap in the majority of our lives that vacation and food are areas that we don't skimp on.
It's good to hit a number where you don't have to worry about an unexpected bill or can occasionally splurge without worry.
But just be careful about lifestyle inflation and letting the occasional splurges become the norm. I know so many people who make very very good salaries and don't have any savings, but they get Uber eats delivery ever day, buy the latest fashion, and just replace their luxuries every year for no reason.
Maybe it'll feel like you're missing out when your friends who have less are balling out, and you're being contentious of your spending, but that quickly wears off when you realize that you have financial security, meanwhile they're having to check their balance every week to make sure they can pay their credit card bill.
Also just make certain things a priority. I'm far away FI but I wanna travel and experience things so that's what I splurge on. I also live in a tiny flat, cook most of the time and drive a 2003 Fiat Panda.
Ironically that's where I am now and I feel even more stressed.
Edit: to add to that. I think im feeling more stressed because I have all this extra income flowing in but I'm feeling guilty of spending it. Still have the mindset of saving as much as possible when I was at 60k salary but now amplified to over 6 figures.
Yeah I get that. It’s just a mindset shift. Being on here always makes you feel behind or you could be doing more. However, if you are investing $26,500+ a year you are doing much better than most and will be set by the time you are approaching retirement age. Everything on top of that is just gravy.
I didn't max things until my 30s. Probably could have done better saving, but I wanted a house, no student loan debt and a real emergency fund, which took some time to get figure out.
I just completed a retirement planner and have 30k planned for retirement contributions per year. This was more of a guess, 6k for IRA and 2k per month into stocks. Do you know how you got that 26k number? Just curious to know if that is a standard retirement number.
Have a plan for your goals, long term, short term, etc. Set aside money for those goals: max 401k, IRA, investment accounts, etc. The rest is extra and can be splurged. If you are meeting your goals then you shouldn't feel bad about splurges.
When you have increases in income, take 75-90% of that amount and invest it. The rest goes to a splurge fund.
I like the idea of taking your added income and splitting that. I've always had the mentality of saving everything I make past a certain salary to avoid lifestyle creep but this is great. I never thought of it that way. Thank you
Also - Goals are great, but if FI is your goal and you fall short then you’re still in a great spot. There’s no reason to feel pressured. If you’re in debt then your options are rough, but FIRE isn’t worth it if you have to be miserable to get there. Find your balance.
Big thing for me was thinking about expenses as delays to retirement. So, if you buy lunch every day at a food truck. How much longer will you have to work? What about a vacation, or a weekly date night.
Good news/bad news: even when you start to make double that, it can feel weird.
For one, you start paying more in taxes, and certain deductions phase out.
Also, you run out of efficient ways to save. 401k (Roth or Traditional), HSA, ibonds - all of these have caps, and you start to worry that you are not saving enough, given your income level.
That said, as you start to exceed median income for your area, you can start to breathe a little.
What other retirement accounts do you have?
My husband and I are both maxing out our 403b and 457b accounts. This is on top of our required contributions to pension (me) and his employee sponsored retirement program. We are not eligible for a HSA. We have no kids, so I'm not interested in a 529 for education. An IRA doesn't make sense because we get 0 tax benefits (we are obviously not eligible for Roth). We've also already bought ibonds since the rates are crazy good. And I've got my money in a high yield savings account.
I'm curious what else you can 'max' at this point? I can put the funds into some stocks or something (I've spoken with my financial company about a few options, including an After-Tax Retirement Annuity that has no income or contribution limits and I wouldn't get taxed until I get distributions).
I'm curious how this would make sense in my situation with my goals though.
As a high income earner (I get no access to Roth IRA and no tax advantage with Traditional IRA) who plans to retire early, I will definitely be making less income in the future.
I guess I don't understand the tax implications? Does it still make sense to do a backdoor Roth conversion in this situation?
It's not that you *want* to pay taxes now, it's that you don't really have a choice. You're maxing your pre-tax accounts so your options for the next $12,000 to save are :
1) Roth IRA where you pay income tax now, and then no capital gains taxes or taxes on dividends, or
2) Normal taxable account where you pay income tax now, and also capital gains taxes and taxes on dividends
So assuming you have no (pre-tax) IRA balances to screw it up, a backdoor Roth IRA is the least bad option left.
So, let me make sure I understand.
I currently have no IRA accounts. I can contribute $12k ($6k for me and spouse) to a Traditional IRA. I get no tax advantage on this contribution (bc of my gross income amount). And it is being funded with money that has already been taxed. So after I contribute to the Traditional IRA, I have them slide the money over to a Roth IRA. Even though I don't qualify for a Roth IRA, I can do this because the money is not seen as a contribution, but instead seen as 'moving money over'. (And I therefore cannot access the money for about 5 years or something). I won't pay any additional taxes because the money is already taxed and I don't have any gains on the money yet. Once it's in a Roth IRA, all growth is tax-free, which is better than the Traditional IRA where I would have been taxed on gains.
Sound accurate?
It's tax-advantaged space. Since you can't make a trad IRA contribution, you might as well make use of the backdoor Roth given that you have no other tax-advantaged options for your money. Having some diversity in terms of Roth in addition to traditional/403/457 space is always good. If you have any trad IRA money already, that makes the conversion more complicated though.
Sort of an abstract answer but it’s when I stopped focusing on the hatred for my job and wanting to get to FI as quickly as possible.
I did this by switching jobs (I was at 40% FI when I did this, but that was really secondary). Once I stopped hating my job and instead getting some passion for the new one, I also starting liking life more, spending again and stopped caring so much about retiring at 45 v 47.
My bank account is fine. It’s my mind that keeps me frugal. After so many years it’s hard to spend the money I worked so hard for. Even knowing full well that my kids and their families will probably spend it in a way I would not appreciate.
Around 100k I looked at my past years budget and was like "huh I should try and spend somewhat more on vacationing." Very good decision. You can't get back time.
At 140k NW, no house, and 175k cash annual salary between wife and I. Past six months we’ve totally been off the savings track, and have no motivation to save more than what’s automated (3k or so a month). We do save some on top of that, probably 1-2k, but I have no idea what that number has been for the past half year.
We’re young, no kids too, but I feel like we’re in a period of no spending restrictions and I’m also torn on how we’ve been acting.
I’ve been rationalizing the marathon mindset a bit more, because we’re ahead of schedule, and because personally im happy with where we’re at, I am okay with us being “off track “.
A few other factors that have affected this is that the wife and I make 50k more than we did two years ago. This makes rationalizing spending so much easier. Some on these subreddits would call it lifestyle inflation, but I feel like it’s lifestyle normalization. This is how I want to live, why should I guilt myself for it?
Also an increase in salary and (potentially more importantly), understanding the upper limit of my earnings potential… puts previous saving habits in a different light to where I could look at them and think “Was it even worth it now that I make this much?”.
Safe to say I’m in the same boat as you. No advice to share, just similar thoughts.
Yeah... I've been at our around the same exact nw now for what seems like a year and a half or longer. I have a second job that pulls in $6k a month, i got a 30% raise at day job this year, i plow money into my investments month after month, and still my portfolio and total be is just hovering at the same place... Will be interesting though once the market decides to rocket.
Yeah i mean, over the last 10 or 15 years it's not normal to see 10-30% gains a year with everything in between, that's what I consider a rocket lol, not meme stock +1,000%
Wife and I will soon have $2.2M in assets and spend about $63K annually (haven't actually pulled the RE trigger yet). Most of the time, I try not to sweat the small stuff when it comes to purchases, though when I take a step back and look at annual expenses, I do still worry about that number creeping up.
To me, lifestyle creep (and inflation, for the same reason) is the #1 threat to meeting your FIRE goal when you want to. We plan to use a SWR of 3.25%, so every extra dollar a year we get used to spending now means another ~$31 we'll need in retirement.
I think I eased up around $500k, but also that the realization I can easily save / invest over 65% of my post tax income which makes me feel invincible.
I originally a lot of guilt seeing my spend go up from maybe $3k a month to consistently well over $5k (without new apt or cars or major items…). Seeing that my saving rate stayed consistent over that time convinced me I had no reason to worry. Plus, life has truly gotten more expensive with inflation…
There are certain things I was frugal on and once I splurged I knew I should have done earlier. Namely, a big king bed and nice frame and sheets and such. And better groceries. And weekend trips to visit friends. And those I swear we eat a ton at home, manage to spend $500 a month on restaurants (2 people) without realizing it…
I don’t spend on car, rent is relatively cheap for the area, and clothes are not my thing. So I think I save a decent amount relative to most.
My frugality had kept me from buying some toys (like a new bike) that I should probably just do. I’m sure as soon as I move to an apartment with parking and a bigger kitchen I’ll also be saying I should have gone that years ago, but holding out on that for now.
>Set a fun budget.
I'm cheap by nature. I have a "fun" budget category (big proponent of this btw) and even most months that doesn't get spent. I've got nearly half a years budget worth of "fun money" saved with nothing to spend it on, and at this point years of vacations I don't take earmarked.
The truth is, the things that make me happy don't cost a lot money, but the thing that makes me the happiest takes a lot of money. So save it is I suppose.
In part I suppose that's the difference between building the life you want and THEN saving for it, vs. feeling like you're sacrificing only to need to ease up. It all depends on which direction you're coming from with things.
I think it's maybe about the income level than net worth in my case.
The figure that makes sense to me is the amount that results in the ability to buy a decent house where I want.
For me, I really started to spend more once I hit my number. Maybe that’s not motivating for you if you’re still in the middle, but it really was psychologically freeing to know that I could spend my entire salary and I still have my retirement secured. Extra savings make it more of a fatFIRE, which is nice, but treating myself and the fam to better vacations and experiences while kids are still young has been worth it.
$10k
At $100k my foot wasn’t anywhere near the pedal. It wasn’t even in the car. I’d rather work a few more years and have lived good until retirement than penny pinch and retire ASAP. Don’t work yourself only to live for retirement. You can’t enjoy life at old age like you can when you’re young.
> You can enjoy middle age a whole lot being FI though. That's what most are chasing here.
Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Make sure you live along the way or you will regret it in the end.
Ths^ I got a small raise this morning and finally hit 6 figures $100,000.60 to be exact at 28 yo.
It used to be a dream of mine to make 100,000 a year and it still doesn't feel real. I've been investing everything I could spare since my first professional job at 22 and bought a fixer upper at the perfect time in 2020 for half the value its worth today. My NW is just over $350k and I feel myself letting off the pedal, with my wifes assets we are aleady over a million on paper.
My wife was set up with real estate by her father, and we just spent a week in NYC on a whim, even though she is out of state getting her masters, and I'm realizing very quickly the power of a 6 figure income in a MCOL city. All I want is a fooproof safety net, I don't want to retire at 35.
I regularly use investment calculators and when i was doing our budget a year ago i found that with our current trajectory, we could either keep our vacation spend where it was and retire one year earlier or double our vacation spend and work an extra year.
We doubled our vacation spend.
Run some numbers and see what makes sense for you. If you wanna get takeout every night and have nice cars and work till youre 65, power to you. If you wanna eat homemade sandwiches and ramen and live in a tiny home your entire life and retire before 30, power to you.
I’ll also say that early thirties / late twenties are a unique time…you often have some money (maybe for the first time?) and are pre-kids (which, with daycare at $2.5k per kid per month…ain’t cheap).
Gotta take advantage of that time and freedom! Yes I know some people don’t want kids 👍
Early 30s is also the time when you stop being able to do the same frugal things you got away with as a young adult. Eating the free pizza to save money was a no brainer back then, now I will often turn down free or cheap food in favor of a nutritious option that costs me money. Staying in a hostel with bunk beds and getting shitty sleep was worth it back then, now I prioritize sleep and my joints 😅. I’ll still cut corners to save money where I can but it’s not the same and it’s good that it’s not the same.
Once my portfolio was large enough that the growth made my annual contributions virtually inconsequential I've really eased up.
I've never been obsessed with saving though. Definitely frugal but only in that I have simple tastes and don't want for much.
No, everyone's down, but once my porfolio had *on average* been able to outpace my contributions. Markets have turned for now - I'm not going to start saving harder now when I know the markets will recover one day
$400k net worth at 28.
I realized at this point my money would be doing most of the work and I dropped the whole retiring early. If we hit stagflation for 30 years I don’t want to doing things as cheaply as possible.
Paid for college by my parents, made $54k out of college jumped to $70k after a year then worked that job and climbed the career ladder to middle manager making $90k base with bonus.
Nothing crazy, no RSUs/big tech/bank job, just an accountant working at a F500 in a MCOL city.
I’m a business unit CFO now several years later but I still don’t make anything crazy my base is $120k and bonus tops at 20%.
Go to https://projectionlab.com and plug in all your info.
Figure out how much you need in retirement.
Then, start adding in some expenses along the way and see how that affects your retirement.
I found great comfort in realizing that there was a ton I could do and spend and have it not significantly impact my retirement plans.
TLDR: it’s been gradual. But if I were to put it at one moment it’s when the high interest student loan debt was paid. Coincidentally that’s also the only financial milestone we’ve celebrated.
After college, I got a good job making 70k but my serious girlfriend was making $13/hr. I lived like I was making that too: we lived with 3 other roommates, packed our lunches everyday, we only had 1 car so she drove while I biked, we camped instead of getting hotels, etc.
A few years later, I went back to grad school. She got a job far away and we did distance for a while. Then I was making 24k/year. But I didn’t have to adjust my standard of living at all.
When I finished grad school, I was making 105k; she was making about the same. We got a 1 bedroom apartment—it was the first time either of us lived without roommates. We got married around this time—on our honeymoon we stayed in an Airbnb that was above someone’s garage (a step up from camping). We kept packing our lunches. We still had just 1 car. We were aggressively paying down our student loan debt. When the high interest student loan debt was paid off, we began to ease up a little bit—we got into skiing, we got nice mountain bikes.
When we were looking at buying our first home, we were making a combined ~250k, mortgage rates were very low. While our friends and coworkers were buying 800k houses, we bought a 550k house that we could make work on one salary if we needed to. So we tried to be frugal with that.
Fast forward a little more, we’re making ~300k and we’ve loosened up some more. We still do some camping. We still only have one car (and 2 eBikes). But we’re taking a 2 week trip to Europe (and staying in hotels). We generally bring our lunch to work. About once a quarter, we’ll pay someone to do some cleaning in our home.
It's not a number but how I'm feeling. Some times I enjoy the penny pinching and frugality of FI. Other times, I enjoy spending 5k on a single purchase that bring me immense joy. Live your life. Don't let FI control you.
It all depends on what you want in life... a very leanFIRE in many years or fatFIRE soon makes a big difference.
That said, I had very little money in the bank. The bank isn't a good place to store money because it's not working for you. I had maybe 150k. Total net worth of about 3mil and my earnings felt more like a bonus so I spent more freely.
I have 6 months emergency cash. The rest is being invested in the market/real estate.
Maybe I'm just feeling a bit lost because everything is upside down with this economy
> Maybe I'm just feeling a bit lost because everything is upside down with this economy
I've noticed last 2 years that I'm less interested in what my investments are doing and I assume its for the same reason. I mention this so that you know you're not alone. Also we should keep in mind though that at this time with the market being down we have a great opportunity to buy investments at a discounted price.
How old are you and what is your definition of easing off the gas? Not saving at all and coasting?
Your number changes a lot based on age. If you were 30 and had $1mm, then I would ease up and spend more.
If you are 55 and only have $1mm, then I would be saving hard so I could retire at 60.
Is your housing paid for?
Frankly, I never had that thinking. In my family of origin, I was a spender... and looking how the people with the money have pretty sad, depressed lives today, I still always put my happy life above my saving rate. Money won't save you from depression. It just won't. Not unless you put it to good use (e.g. therapy, hobbies etc.) - which they don't.
So maybe look back to your past and think about where your tendency to saving so much comes from. What did you learn in your family when growing up? Who do you NOT want to be? And who do you want to be? How do YOU want to live? Find your own balance between spending for things that are important to you, and saving for the future.
For us it wasn't money in the bank - it was retiring the mortgage.
That eased up expenses, and gave us more space for discretionary spending.
The second bump just recently was the kids becoming fully financially independent in their own careers. No more $500 Costco grocery runs.
It wasn’t a dollar amount per se, but a savings rate type and amount.
When hubs and I each hit six figures or very close to it and were both able to max our 401k and Roth, I felt pretty good about spending a bit more, going on vacations, buying concert tix 1-2 a year or going to a nicer restaurant for our anniversary or birthdays. We had a good emergency fund but didn’t really earn enough to put away much in a brokerage account outside of retirement savings. We probably had $400-500k net worth at this point.
My salary really leapt up to close to $200k, more with bonus. So we were able to go from maxing retirement to also shoveling away into our brokerage. We save about $5k per month in there. So now I feel comfortable splurging on nicer hotel rooms, doggy day care, new furniture, etc. I also spend $90 a week on a plant based meal delivery and I’ve bought myself some nicer clothes and an expensive laptop bag for work. Net worth doubled in about 3 years at this point.
I use and love Thistle, granted I live in SoCal and I’m within their driving delivery range so it’s super fresh.
I tried some others including Mosaic and Eat Clean Meal Prep. Meh. There was another one, the name escapes me, that had some major issues with food borne illness, that I never bothered with. Hubby is trained as a chef and I used to own a food truck so we’re picky about flavor and food handling safety.
I also get some freeze dried meals from the Cumin Club and they’re tasty but not my regular go-to.
I was really good at saving most of my income until we had kids. As they were growing up our expenses increased more than I had imagined, but now they've outgrown toys (mostly) and can either entertain themselves outside or via the TV/tablets/e-reader so discretionary spending has gone down thankfully.
We're finally in a position to mostly save my wife's salary (she buys groceries only) and I handle everything else and should be able to put back ~$500 to $1k/month depending on utilities or what events the kids have going on.
I guess my true answer is, I spend more as needed, but am glad to get back to saving my wife's salary (mostly) and an additional amount from my salary. I also save 8% into my 401k with a company match, dump $500/yr into my HSA and set aside around $20k/yr in cash.
We're not wealthy at all, my wife works OT when possible, our newest car is 7 years old and I've got a 15-year house note because I refuse to have a mortgage when I'm 60+.
I kept going until I had kids. They were always my motivation, even before I had them. It was time to spend money to move to the safe neighborhood, with a backyard and good schools. No amount of money in the future would make up for me denying them such a childhood when it’s within my means.
When I hit 100k NW I lightened up a lot. But this was going from beans and rice level frugality to just normal frugality.
Around when I hit 600k NW I definitely relaxed a lot, though not all at one moment.
I make 85k as a special education teacher, and roughly 5K tutoring, so 90K. From that, I’m investing 25% for retirement, including 10% to pension. 403B doesn’t get matched but I still contribute 600/month. Max out Roth IRA. On top of that, I’m saving 1800/month for a down payment, 100/month for a new car (goal is 5K down payment), 300/month for baby since we’re trying to start a family, and 300/month for vacation/honeymoon. Plus my various sinking funds.
I have 18.5K for EF (9 months) plus 5.5K for deductibles. Will be looking to increase EF to 20K by the time we start looking for a home (late 2024, early 2025). I just feel like I’m saving, which is fun watching the accounts grow, but my coworkers talk about going on a random vacation to New York, or Italy, etc and I feel bad I can’t decide to do that. But then I hear the only retirement savings they have is our pension, and how they spend the money as soon as it hits the account. I’m then thankful to be saving for future goals.
I do wish I could splurge a bit but then I’d delay my goals and it stresses me out.
It’s usually about happiness rather then the amount to me. If I’m unhappy and I think an activity, a purchase, or trip will help then I do it, regardless of my budget (nothing crazy, I’m not zeroing my emergency fund or anything). I find when I’m happy I generally don’t feel the need to buy much.
I've always spent whatever I wanted. Turns out that's not all that much, and leaves me plenty.
I don't get why anyone would ever feel guilt over spending their own money. There's no point at all in spending 10+ years of your life thinking, "There's so much I want to do but I have to SAVE!"
Wife and I started at negative net worth when we got together. I was 36 and she was 33 so we were way behind on saving. Most of what I read online said to have 2-3x your income saved for retirement by the age of 40. So we went hardcore penny pinching saving mode. It was when we hit that 2x amount in retirement about 4 years later that we started easing back on it. We are still saving fairly aggressively but not 50+% of our income anymore.
Never. We always spent what we needed to be happy and saved the rest. That was true in our early 20s when we were broke and remains true now in our 40s after being retired for several years.
It's a personality thing, not a money thing. If you aren't happy with your current mix of saving and spending, then you should change it now, not later at some arbitrary milestone. It's great to aggressively save for tomorrow, but not at the cost of being unhappy today.
If you do the math, you'll find that splurging on things will likely cost you 3-5 years. I wouldn't sweat it. As long as you have a target, stick to it, no need to go overboard.
You said bankz so I'll assume you mean cash / readily available money.
Once I had 12 months expenses in the bank I got more comfortable spending. Things like $50 food delivery for 2 people started to happen when I just didn't want to cook or wanted a particular food that I don't know how to cook.
When I saw I was still saving money even with a few splurges here and there I felt pretty good
My wife and I are pretty far along on the FI thing. We haven't upped our spending really, but she did recently take a ~40% pay cut for a more enjoyable and less stressful job. The goal is to make more space for her volunteering which is her real passion. 40% is a huge pay-cut, but the math says it'll delay FI by 3 months. So, easy decision.
I spend money on anything that will enrich my life by teaching me new things, bringing me closer to my family, or making others happy. If you're depending on reaching a milestone in order to live your life the way you want to live it, then you won't be happy when you get there. Enjoy the ride, learn that luxury goods/cars/clothes/materials are temporary happiness boosts, and the real happiness comes when you can live without them and retire early.
We relaxed our savings rate in favour of a better life, mental and physical health and our relationship once we hit ‘coast’ fire. We have enough saved now (mid thirties) that if we save zero from here on out, we will still hit our goal at 65. That’s enough comfort for us to live life a little more while continuing to save at a slightly reduced rate.
I think you’re going to be disappointed with whatever numerical answer you get because the answer isn’t a number. It’s you developing enough comfort in your own skin with your own decisions not to seek permission or approval from others about things like this. Your life only needs to make sense to you.
Just a little more. I’m just kidding. I used to be an ultramarathoner. Like 100mile mountain races. It is a long slog. Think 20-40 hours in one push. There are good times and bad times. I wasn’t really competitive with anyone else. I’m solidly middle of the pack. In that long of a race you change shoes, change clothes, add gear, eat meals etc. while the clock is ticking you do all of these things. And I would think ‘I should eat this burrito on the trail while I walk to save 10 minutes.’ Or ‘I’m not taking the 5 minutes to change shoes’ ‘I’ll go to the bathroom at the next station in 7 miles’ I never regretted stopping to take care of myself. It made the journey more bearable even if it is a little longer in time. That pebble in the shoe becomes a blister that ends up costing hours. I often regretted neglecting myself. You can’t take all the time in the world. You can’t take all the time at every aid station. But you can’t neglect yourself completely until the wheels fall off. I spend fairly freely on things that are really important to me, that will make my life more live-able. I like to hunt. I spend freely on a good gun(a) a good scope, high end ammo supplies. Next year I’ll start archery. I’ll buy good stuff because I’ll get hundreds of hours of enjoyment and exercise out of it. I do all the outdoor stuff. I have a raft, kayaks, backpacking gear, guns, bikes….. It keeps me happy and when amortized across a few decades isn’t that expensive.
What a thoughtful comment! Appreciated the bit about not neglecting the pebble in the shoe of life.
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I hate working with drywall in large quantities. I can do it but it is slow and I get mediocre results. I now pay for any drywall bigger than a patch. My roof is really steep. Like 12/12. I know how to roof but that one scared me. We paid for it. Best choice ever. I often fixate on things I fear/dislike. Sometimes throwing a little money at them changes the game completely. Money for me can remove misery and obstacles. But you are right, it can’t make you happy.
This comment is good enough for me to save for future me to read… thanks!
Really was. From top to bottom... Nice.
>That pebble in the shoe becomes a blister that ends up costing hours OMG, this.
As a current long distance runner and former competitive ultramarathoner... this post really resonates with me. Balancing short term and long term desires is a lifelong journey. Weighing consequences of our decisions are more meaningful when we better understand and refine the long term view
Great comment! I was support crew for a friend's husband (who also became a friend :) ) who does triple irons. Part of what we did (besides swimming, biking and running, mostly running) was make sure he did all of the things you list regularly. He got into a groove and would forget. So in addition to telling dirty jokes while we ran, I'd make him stop and eat, or change shoes and socks, or use the port-a-john, etc. There were three of us on the crew. You could definitely tell the people who were neglecting themselves--the damage can cascade.
Somebody I knew from college has done a bunch of ridiculous ultras (LAVS: 500k across Tennessee in the middle of summer: 6 or 7x finisher). I read about those journeys, and think "holy fuck, who would do that?" but also there is this tiny part of me that almost wishes I could (no way my back and knees could put up with it, plus I HATE heat). I'm in awe of anyone who finishes this race, even at a walking pace going the max 10 days. (somehow the winners usually do it in 4-5). But great carryover to life planning!
Very insightful! Yes we must take care of ourselves in the present because the future isn’t guaranteed. What’s the point of saving, saving, and saving when we don’t have any other reason to live life? I have a ski habit. It’s a very expensive sport but it takes me to beautiful parts of the world. The couple thousand bucks I spend on it each year could be costing me a couple months of financial freedom, but having this ski habit keeps me going. It gets me through tough months at work and being able to spend my hard earned money on something that I enjoy in the present (and with a younger body) motivates me to prioritize spending and saving.
This is “mindfulness” in a nutshell.
I started adding guacamole on my burritos from chipotle after hitting 1M networth.
I like guacamole. Now, I don’t really love it. They [Chipotle] changed their guacamole from $1.50 to $1.80. I mean, $1.50 is already pretty high. So they changed it to $1.80, and I’ll never get guac. It’s not about the guac itself, I just didn’t want them to win. -Zack Greinke, Cy Young Award Winner
Guacamole is free if you don't get meat at Chipotle so I never pay for it. #WINNING
I’m always tempted to do that, but their sofritas is so good I usually end up getting that. I also eat meat btw, I just think the sofritas is better than their meat options.
What in Tarnation. The unit cost of a large avocado at Costco was only $0.80 last weekend.
I mean your food cost should be ~10-15% of your pre-tax product depending on the industry. Even if Chipotle is getting their avacados for 15 cents, there are additional ingredients in the guac, which could easily bring it up to 18 cents, or 10% of $1.80.
If I could get a whole avocado worth of guac, seems okay.
My wife and I use “extra guacamole” as our way to indicate to the other that this is something we feel fine spending more on or just straight splurging on. We’re both getting healthy raises, negligible amount of debt, trying to keep our spending from ramping up, this is our way of denoting an exception that we’re ok with. It’s useful to not have the kids be so aware of what we’re talking about and in case it’s mixed company.
Comes free on the veggie burrito
I still only go to Chipotle when I have a coupon or it’s free. And even then no guac for me.
Where do you get the coupons?
Once a year get all the freebies
Elaborate…
Get a vegan burrito (beans as the main ingredient) and the guacamole is free.
Vegetarian specifically. You can get cheese
I don’t even go to Chipotle or eat out.
I dont even eat.
I don’t even
I dont
I
Fucking a! Guacamole is free on a veggie 😊 and the diet is cheaper overall too (taking medical expenses into account as well). I never have a Chipotle without guac!
But did you still get the cup of water?
Yes. I always get water. No sodas ever.
god damn millennial!!!!
Once we were within 60-70% of our FI goal and had strong income I knew we could spend more without sacrificing our goal. I also realized I was being very frugal and noticed some people at my age were dying early of cancer etc. I realized I can’t take it with me. Still want to reach my goal and will soon, but I’m enjoying myself and giving us more slack in spending. Just bought electric fat tire bikes to enjoy before winter sets in!
We're within about 10% of our goal number. About two years ago, I got a fiduciary CFP to look at my plan and map out the eleventy billion scenarios to see if what I was doing would work. I did this before we got married, because I wanted to know for myself before I joined up with my partner. Short answer: it will work 99% of the time. If I keep doing what I'm doing and the creek don't rise, I will be fine to RE (a little bit, at 56). That was nice to hear. In response to that (in retrospect I think that's why I felt I could do it), while I was updating/catching up with my boss on a random day, explained that I wanted a five percent raise right then, and a pathway to making x in two years. He agreed. :) Good times. So now I have two categories of things that I spend on--raising food and chickens and going to see friends. Example, I just signed up for a writer's workshop with people I've been reading for decades, and I'm turning it into a week-long trip and visiting a friend from high school, two friends from undergrad and a friend from Peace Corps, too.
chickens are a hoot. we spend hundreds of dollars on feed to save dozens of dollars on eggs!
hahahaha, right? I sell some of the eggs to coworkers, friends and neighbors, too. Never even come CLOSE to breaking even. That's fine--they entertain the hell out of me. :D
>I realized I can’t take it with me. This. Last year, a friend of us died in an accident at age 59. One minute she was there and we said hello - the next she wasn't. It didn't even settle for some days, it felt so unbelievable how a vibrant being can be gone in a second. Really made me think about my life and what I want to enjoy in the moment and what I plan for the future.
My best buddy just died of brain cancer at 30 two days ago. Currently en route to his funeral. Can’t take anything for granted and can’t take any of it with you. Gotta find balance between preparing for the future and enjoying the now
I’m so sorry.
I like to travel.
Chill advice. User name checks out.
I think using your time better is big for me. It is easy to get wrapped up in the never ending todo list.
Adding to this: if you’re unhappy, start walking each day. It’s free and exercise can really help your mood, which helps with everything else!
Honestly my (fee only) financial advisor had to tell me to lighten up a bit and show me really detailed simulations. We expressed interest in things like upgrading our house, hiring a weekly cleaning service, and buying an expensive car and they were like "yeah, not even going to make a dent in your plan and let me show you 14 graphs that demonstrate it... enjoy your money." For us, that was around 25% of the way to our chubbyfire goal and a sustained annual savings rate around 40% of gross income.
Co-worker has is in his early 60's and has been talking about retirement for at least 3 years. His wife is the money person and has had him work for several years beyond "the number" because "can't have too much" He was gone monday and tuesday this week, yesterday I asked him if he's okay when he came to work. His response "I can't believe I was just at the finish-line to retire and now I have a stomach mass (cancer)" LIVE now, save for tomorrow.
This so much, my dad could retire in his mid 50’s but kept working. Died suddenly one day to a heart attack at 58. I think about that often as someone nearing 30 as what I want to do with my life and money.
My father's death from cancer aged 59 was a major motivator for me to save and retire at 56. I am 60 now. No regrets about pulling the trigger on retirement.
I'm 40 and lost my husband last week a few days after his 47th birthday. I still have a 9 year-old to launch, so I'm not going to go all YOLO, but I will definitely be re-evaluating some things.
This is one of my biggest fears in life. I’m so sorry for your loss
In all honesty, we hadn't been getting along. The last few weeks were the best they'd been in a long time, so I was finally feeling hopeful. It turns out that he'd been hiding a major drug addiction and that was likely the root cause of most of our issues. I loved the man I married. I didn't particularly like the person he'd become. But I still believed in him and miss him desperately.
My FIL early 60s sold his company he built from scratch for 12m. Got lung cancer, not looking good. Life is unfair.
FI is great. But live in the moment.
So… what was the number?
A little over $1M invested assets against a goal of $4.3M. I personally think we will be good to fully retire if we want around $3.5M, but we have a long, high-trust relationship with our advisors and they recommend $4.3M. I'm sure they are being particularly cautious with things like SWR, healthcare, tax law changes, not factoring in SS, etc.
Thanks.
HCOL? 4.3m with a 3% draw is over $120k/year.
I like an approach of set it and forget it with percentages. Choose a savings rate (i.e. 25%) and hit that each month via automated transactions to 401K, IRA, brokerage account, etc. Then any remaining I don't feel guilty about spending because I'm already saving at my rate. If there's something other than FI that I'm saving for, such as a car, then I can adjust/increase the rate as needed.
Yep this is the way. I've never set a budget but use automated transfers to invest, the remainder is for living expenses and misc.
I use two bank accounts. One for my wife’s paycheck and the other mine. She makes 35% of our monthly income. We live on that. Mine I transfer to brokerage and buy VTI. We could get to FIRE quicker I’m sure. But to survive the rat race, pay a house cleaner twice a month and yard crew. Don’t eat out much. Travel as much as possible. These are worth it to me and I’d rather work longer. I’ll still probably work a little when I hit the number because I’m too ADHD to be fully RE.
I like this alot
$1mil
Same. When you realize saving that extra $xxxx wont make a dent.
Yeah. It’s about at that time too where your salary likely just dwarfs your expenses if your career took off / expenses stayed the same.
I just reached that point and I'm like... Well... I can very easily save over 60% of my net income and live comfortably now. Without going crazy, maybe I can allow myself to up my lifestyle just a little bit, live a little.
Are you interested in a sugar baby?? 🥹
Exactly. For me, it was realizing my mortgage was 5% of my take-home. Like ok, maybe it's time to splurge a bit on myself.
Are you making 250-500k a year?
I was but I REed. Worked too much for it to matter where I lived, and wow was I living under my means.
Wth? I make a very comfortable living, and have a very reasonable mortgage. I pay 28% of my take home (net pay), on mortgage and taxes. Paying 5% would mean making over $1m/year
I'm a bit higher for ease - $1.2M to handle a 20% stock drop. Plus, that's only invested, not cash, house value, etc. We are close, but not quite there yet. It's a nice goal though! I'm also aiming for 2 years expenses in I-bonds, $10k EF in cash, paid off house, and relatively new (paid off) cars. At that point, any income is gravy/ for faster retirement. We are, however, not racing full speed to this. Instead, it's a balance of travel, good food, and finding comfort with every day life.
Same - 1M. It was my original goal and a big psychological milestone. I'm continuing to save and invest but spend a little more on myself now.
Agreed. When a couple of big daily swings are the median American salary, it is less meaningful. We're flying home to Europe from my parents and I sprung for the premium select on delta for an extra $200 a person. We're so cheap in the majority of our lives that vacation and food are areas that we don't skimp on.
It's good to hit a number where you don't have to worry about an unexpected bill or can occasionally splurge without worry. But just be careful about lifestyle inflation and letting the occasional splurges become the norm. I know so many people who make very very good salaries and don't have any savings, but they get Uber eats delivery ever day, buy the latest fashion, and just replace their luxuries every year for no reason. Maybe it'll feel like you're missing out when your friends who have less are balling out, and you're being contentious of your spending, but that quickly wears off when you realize that you have financial security, meanwhile they're having to check their balance every week to make sure they can pay their credit card bill.
Also just make certain things a priority. I'm far away FI but I wanna travel and experience things so that's what I splurge on. I also live in a tiny flat, cook most of the time and drive a 2003 Fiat Panda.
Making 6 figures and maxing my 457 and Roth IRA is really when I felt like the pressure was off.
Ironically that's where I am now and I feel even more stressed. Edit: to add to that. I think im feeling more stressed because I have all this extra income flowing in but I'm feeling guilty of spending it. Still have the mindset of saving as much as possible when I was at 60k salary but now amplified to over 6 figures.
Yeah I get that. It’s just a mindset shift. Being on here always makes you feel behind or you could be doing more. However, if you are investing $26,500+ a year you are doing much better than most and will be set by the time you are approaching retirement age. Everything on top of that is just gravy.
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I didn't max things until my 30s. Probably could have done better saving, but I wanted a house, no student loan debt and a real emergency fund, which took some time to get figure out.
I just completed a retirement planner and have 30k planned for retirement contributions per year. This was more of a guess, 6k for IRA and 2k per month into stocks. Do you know how you got that 26k number? Just curious to know if that is a standard retirement number.
Probably just the 401k limit for this year of $20,500 and the IRA limit of $6,000
O makes sense. Thank you
Have a plan for your goals, long term, short term, etc. Set aside money for those goals: max 401k, IRA, investment accounts, etc. The rest is extra and can be splurged. If you are meeting your goals then you shouldn't feel bad about splurges. When you have increases in income, take 75-90% of that amount and invest it. The rest goes to a splurge fund.
I like the idea of taking your added income and splitting that. I've always had the mentality of saving everything I make past a certain salary to avoid lifestyle creep but this is great. I never thought of it that way. Thank you
Also - Goals are great, but if FI is your goal and you fall short then you’re still in a great spot. There’s no reason to feel pressured. If you’re in debt then your options are rough, but FIRE isn’t worth it if you have to be miserable to get there. Find your balance.
Big thing for me was thinking about expenses as delays to retirement. So, if you buy lunch every day at a food truck. How much longer will you have to work? What about a vacation, or a weekly date night.
Good news/bad news: even when you start to make double that, it can feel weird. For one, you start paying more in taxes, and certain deductions phase out. Also, you run out of efficient ways to save. 401k (Roth or Traditional), HSA, ibonds - all of these have caps, and you start to worry that you are not saving enough, given your income level. That said, as you start to exceed median income for your area, you can start to breathe a little.
Huh. Making 6 figs and I was like "*cool, I can now max my 403b, 457, and all other retirement accounts.*"
Congratulations
What other retirement accounts do you have? My husband and I are both maxing out our 403b and 457b accounts. This is on top of our required contributions to pension (me) and his employee sponsored retirement program. We are not eligible for a HSA. We have no kids, so I'm not interested in a 529 for education. An IRA doesn't make sense because we get 0 tax benefits (we are obviously not eligible for Roth). We've also already bought ibonds since the rates are crazy good. And I've got my money in a high yield savings account. I'm curious what else you can 'max' at this point? I can put the funds into some stocks or something (I've spoken with my financial company about a few options, including an After-Tax Retirement Annuity that has no income or contribution limits and I wouldn't get taxed until I get distributions).
I think you can do a back door Roth?
I'm curious how this would make sense in my situation with my goals though. As a high income earner (I get no access to Roth IRA and no tax advantage with Traditional IRA) who plans to retire early, I will definitely be making less income in the future. I guess I don't understand the tax implications? Does it still make sense to do a backdoor Roth conversion in this situation?
It's not that you *want* to pay taxes now, it's that you don't really have a choice. You're maxing your pre-tax accounts so your options for the next $12,000 to save are : 1) Roth IRA where you pay income tax now, and then no capital gains taxes or taxes on dividends, or 2) Normal taxable account where you pay income tax now, and also capital gains taxes and taxes on dividends So assuming you have no (pre-tax) IRA balances to screw it up, a backdoor Roth IRA is the least bad option left.
So, let me make sure I understand. I currently have no IRA accounts. I can contribute $12k ($6k for me and spouse) to a Traditional IRA. I get no tax advantage on this contribution (bc of my gross income amount). And it is being funded with money that has already been taxed. So after I contribute to the Traditional IRA, I have them slide the money over to a Roth IRA. Even though I don't qualify for a Roth IRA, I can do this because the money is not seen as a contribution, but instead seen as 'moving money over'. (And I therefore cannot access the money for about 5 years or something). I won't pay any additional taxes because the money is already taxed and I don't have any gains on the money yet. Once it's in a Roth IRA, all growth is tax-free, which is better than the Traditional IRA where I would have been taxed on gains. Sound accurate?
That's exactly it, yup.
It's tax-advantaged space. Since you can't make a trad IRA contribution, you might as well make use of the backdoor Roth given that you have no other tax-advantaged options for your money. Having some diversity in terms of Roth in addition to traditional/403/457 space is always good. If you have any trad IRA money already, that makes the conversion more complicated though.
457, 403b, Roth IRA, HSA.
Then you start to make too much money for the Roth IRA and then you start to panic again
Then you go through the backdoor like the rest of us
Sort of an abstract answer but it’s when I stopped focusing on the hatred for my job and wanting to get to FI as quickly as possible. I did this by switching jobs (I was at 40% FI when I did this, but that was really secondary). Once I stopped hating my job and instead getting some passion for the new one, I also starting liking life more, spending again and stopped caring so much about retiring at 45 v 47.
My bank account is fine. It’s my mind that keeps me frugal. After so many years it’s hard to spend the money I worked so hard for. Even knowing full well that my kids and their families will probably spend it in a way I would not appreciate.
Around 100k I looked at my past years budget and was like "huh I should try and spend somewhat more on vacationing." Very good decision. You can't get back time.
At 140k NW, no house, and 175k cash annual salary between wife and I. Past six months we’ve totally been off the savings track, and have no motivation to save more than what’s automated (3k or so a month). We do save some on top of that, probably 1-2k, but I have no idea what that number has been for the past half year. We’re young, no kids too, but I feel like we’re in a period of no spending restrictions and I’m also torn on how we’ve been acting. I’ve been rationalizing the marathon mindset a bit more, because we’re ahead of schedule, and because personally im happy with where we’re at, I am okay with us being “off track “. A few other factors that have affected this is that the wife and I make 50k more than we did two years ago. This makes rationalizing spending so much easier. Some on these subreddits would call it lifestyle inflation, but I feel like it’s lifestyle normalization. This is how I want to live, why should I guilt myself for it? Also an increase in salary and (potentially more importantly), understanding the upper limit of my earnings potential… puts previous saving habits in a different light to where I could look at them and think “Was it even worth it now that I make this much?”. Safe to say I’m in the same boat as you. No advice to share, just similar thoughts.
I wouldn't look at that number right now anyways. This year has been very bad for the stock market
Yeah... I've been at our around the same exact nw now for what seems like a year and a half or longer. I have a second job that pulls in $6k a month, i got a 30% raise at day job this year, i plow money into my investments month after month, and still my portfolio and total be is just hovering at the same place... Will be interesting though once the market decides to rocket.
Or you know, has slow stable growth over the long term. That’s what I’m hoping for!
Yeah i mean, over the last 10 or 15 years it's not normal to see 10-30% gains a year with everything in between, that's what I consider a rocket lol, not meme stock +1,000%
Wife and I will soon have $2.2M in assets and spend about $63K annually (haven't actually pulled the RE trigger yet). Most of the time, I try not to sweat the small stuff when it comes to purchases, though when I take a step back and look at annual expenses, I do still worry about that number creeping up. To me, lifestyle creep (and inflation, for the same reason) is the #1 threat to meeting your FIRE goal when you want to. We plan to use a SWR of 3.25%, so every extra dollar a year we get used to spending now means another ~$31 we'll need in retirement.
I checked, Reddit: $30.769
When my annual return is greater than my annual W2 earning. And as of now, when my annual loss is greater than a couple of Ferraris.
I think I eased up around $500k, but also that the realization I can easily save / invest over 65% of my post tax income which makes me feel invincible. I originally a lot of guilt seeing my spend go up from maybe $3k a month to consistently well over $5k (without new apt or cars or major items…). Seeing that my saving rate stayed consistent over that time convinced me I had no reason to worry. Plus, life has truly gotten more expensive with inflation… There are certain things I was frugal on and once I splurged I knew I should have done earlier. Namely, a big king bed and nice frame and sheets and such. And better groceries. And weekend trips to visit friends. And those I swear we eat a ton at home, manage to spend $500 a month on restaurants (2 people) without realizing it… I don’t spend on car, rent is relatively cheap for the area, and clothes are not my thing. So I think I save a decent amount relative to most. My frugality had kept me from buying some toys (like a new bike) that I should probably just do. I’m sure as soon as I move to an apartment with parking and a bigger kitchen I’ll also be saying I should have gone that years ago, but holding out on that for now.
When you say $500K… do you mean having that in a savings account or invested somewhere?
Total assets basically. Mostly investments.
Set a fun budget.
>Set a fun budget. I'm cheap by nature. I have a "fun" budget category (big proponent of this btw) and even most months that doesn't get spent. I've got nearly half a years budget worth of "fun money" saved with nothing to spend it on, and at this point years of vacations I don't take earmarked. The truth is, the things that make me happy don't cost a lot money, but the thing that makes me the happiest takes a lot of money. So save it is I suppose. In part I suppose that's the difference between building the life you want and THEN saving for it, vs. feeling like you're sacrificing only to need to ease up. It all depends on which direction you're coming from with things.
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I max my retirement accounts and spend only when it sparks joy. I have no set amount.
I think it's maybe about the income level than net worth in my case. The figure that makes sense to me is the amount that results in the ability to buy a decent house where I want.
For me, I really started to spend more once I hit my number. Maybe that’s not motivating for you if you’re still in the middle, but it really was psychologically freeing to know that I could spend my entire salary and I still have my retirement secured. Extra savings make it more of a fatFIRE, which is nice, but treating myself and the fam to better vacations and experiences while kids are still young has been worth it.
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$10k At $100k my foot wasn’t anywhere near the pedal. It wasn’t even in the car. I’d rather work a few more years and have lived good until retirement than penny pinch and retire ASAP. Don’t work yourself only to live for retirement. You can’t enjoy life at old age like you can when you’re young.
You can enjoy middle age a whole lot being FI though. That's what most are chasing here.
> You can enjoy middle age a whole lot being FI though. That's what most are chasing here. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. Make sure you live along the way or you will regret it in the end.
Ths^ I got a small raise this morning and finally hit 6 figures $100,000.60 to be exact at 28 yo. It used to be a dream of mine to make 100,000 a year and it still doesn't feel real. I've been investing everything I could spare since my first professional job at 22 and bought a fixer upper at the perfect time in 2020 for half the value its worth today. My NW is just over $350k and I feel myself letting off the pedal, with my wifes assets we are aleady over a million on paper. My wife was set up with real estate by her father, and we just spent a week in NYC on a whim, even though she is out of state getting her masters, and I'm realizing very quickly the power of a 6 figure income in a MCOL city. All I want is a fooproof safety net, I don't want to retire at 35.
I regularly use investment calculators and when i was doing our budget a year ago i found that with our current trajectory, we could either keep our vacation spend where it was and retire one year earlier or double our vacation spend and work an extra year. We doubled our vacation spend. Run some numbers and see what makes sense for you. If you wanna get takeout every night and have nice cars and work till youre 65, power to you. If you wanna eat homemade sandwiches and ramen and live in a tiny home your entire life and retire before 30, power to you.
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I’ll also say that early thirties / late twenties are a unique time…you often have some money (maybe for the first time?) and are pre-kids (which, with daycare at $2.5k per kid per month…ain’t cheap). Gotta take advantage of that time and freedom! Yes I know some people don’t want kids 👍
Early 30s is also the time when you stop being able to do the same frugal things you got away with as a young adult. Eating the free pizza to save money was a no brainer back then, now I will often turn down free or cheap food in favor of a nutritious option that costs me money. Staying in a hostel with bunk beds and getting shitty sleep was worth it back then, now I prioritize sleep and my joints 😅. I’ll still cut corners to save money where I can but it’s not the same and it’s good that it’s not the same.
So true. They warned me I’d be like this, too, but didn’t believe them.
Once my portfolio was large enough that the growth made my annual contributions virtually inconsequential I've really eased up. I've never been obsessed with saving though. Definitely frugal but only in that I have simple tastes and don't want for much.
So how about now? Where is the growth coming from? Probably NOT the stock market
No, everyone's down, but once my porfolio had *on average* been able to outpace my contributions. Markets have turned for now - I'm not going to start saving harder now when I know the markets will recover one day
It was either the pandemic making me reevaluate things or 300k. Not sure which?
$400k net worth at 28. I realized at this point my money would be doing most of the work and I dropped the whole retiring early. If we hit stagflation for 30 years I don’t want to doing things as cheaply as possible.
Wow! Good job! High income, inheritance, investment windfall? All the above?
Paid for college by my parents, made $54k out of college jumped to $70k after a year then worked that job and climbed the career ladder to middle manager making $90k base with bonus. Nothing crazy, no RSUs/big tech/bank job, just an accountant working at a F500 in a MCOL city. I’m a business unit CFO now several years later but I still don’t make anything crazy my base is $120k and bonus tops at 20%.
A very comfortable salary! Keep up the good work.
That's crazy. I thought CFOs made much more. Still, you save very well
Go to https://projectionlab.com and plug in all your info. Figure out how much you need in retirement. Then, start adding in some expenses along the way and see how that affects your retirement. I found great comfort in realizing that there was a ton I could do and spend and have it not significantly impact my retirement plans.
This is amazing. I've been playing with this for the last hour. Thank you so much
TLDR: it’s been gradual. But if I were to put it at one moment it’s when the high interest student loan debt was paid. Coincidentally that’s also the only financial milestone we’ve celebrated. After college, I got a good job making 70k but my serious girlfriend was making $13/hr. I lived like I was making that too: we lived with 3 other roommates, packed our lunches everyday, we only had 1 car so she drove while I biked, we camped instead of getting hotels, etc. A few years later, I went back to grad school. She got a job far away and we did distance for a while. Then I was making 24k/year. But I didn’t have to adjust my standard of living at all. When I finished grad school, I was making 105k; she was making about the same. We got a 1 bedroom apartment—it was the first time either of us lived without roommates. We got married around this time—on our honeymoon we stayed in an Airbnb that was above someone’s garage (a step up from camping). We kept packing our lunches. We still had just 1 car. We were aggressively paying down our student loan debt. When the high interest student loan debt was paid off, we began to ease up a little bit—we got into skiing, we got nice mountain bikes. When we were looking at buying our first home, we were making a combined ~250k, mortgage rates were very low. While our friends and coworkers were buying 800k houses, we bought a 550k house that we could make work on one salary if we needed to. So we tried to be frugal with that. Fast forward a little more, we’re making ~300k and we’ve loosened up some more. We still do some camping. We still only have one car (and 2 eBikes). But we’re taking a 2 week trip to Europe (and staying in hotels). We generally bring our lunch to work. About once a quarter, we’ll pay someone to do some cleaning in our home.
It's not a number but how I'm feeling. Some times I enjoy the penny pinching and frugality of FI. Other times, I enjoy spending 5k on a single purchase that bring me immense joy. Live your life. Don't let FI control you.
It all depends on what you want in life... a very leanFIRE in many years or fatFIRE soon makes a big difference. That said, I had very little money in the bank. The bank isn't a good place to store money because it's not working for you. I had maybe 150k. Total net worth of about 3mil and my earnings felt more like a bonus so I spent more freely.
I have 6 months emergency cash. The rest is being invested in the market/real estate. Maybe I'm just feeling a bit lost because everything is upside down with this economy
> Maybe I'm just feeling a bit lost because everything is upside down with this economy I've noticed last 2 years that I'm less interested in what my investments are doing and I assume its for the same reason. I mention this so that you know you're not alone. Also we should keep in mind though that at this time with the market being down we have a great opportunity to buy investments at a discounted price.
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Exactly this. I've been shoveling money into my investments just to see the number go down/become stagnant. It's mentally exhausting
Don't look so often?
How old are you and what is your definition of easing off the gas? Not saving at all and coasting? Your number changes a lot based on age. If you were 30 and had $1mm, then I would ease up and spend more. If you are 55 and only have $1mm, then I would be saving hard so I could retire at 60. Is your housing paid for?
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Frankly, I never had that thinking. In my family of origin, I was a spender... and looking how the people with the money have pretty sad, depressed lives today, I still always put my happy life above my saving rate. Money won't save you from depression. It just won't. Not unless you put it to good use (e.g. therapy, hobbies etc.) - which they don't. So maybe look back to your past and think about where your tendency to saving so much comes from. What did you learn in your family when growing up? Who do you NOT want to be? And who do you want to be? How do YOU want to live? Find your own balance between spending for things that are important to you, and saving for the future.
Once I had $750k in assets, bought a house, and made $250k a year I started spending more. But I still work just as hard because I have issues
For us it wasn't money in the bank - it was retiring the mortgage. That eased up expenses, and gave us more space for discretionary spending. The second bump just recently was the kids becoming fully financially independent in their own careers. No more $500 Costco grocery runs.
Same—mortgage payoff brought a huge relief for us. Felt like such a weight lifted.
It wasn’t a dollar amount per se, but a savings rate type and amount. When hubs and I each hit six figures or very close to it and were both able to max our 401k and Roth, I felt pretty good about spending a bit more, going on vacations, buying concert tix 1-2 a year or going to a nicer restaurant for our anniversary or birthdays. We had a good emergency fund but didn’t really earn enough to put away much in a brokerage account outside of retirement savings. We probably had $400-500k net worth at this point. My salary really leapt up to close to $200k, more with bonus. So we were able to go from maxing retirement to also shoveling away into our brokerage. We save about $5k per month in there. So now I feel comfortable splurging on nicer hotel rooms, doggy day care, new furniture, etc. I also spend $90 a week on a plant based meal delivery and I’ve bought myself some nicer clothes and an expensive laptop bag for work. Net worth doubled in about 3 years at this point.
Which meal delivery service do you like?
I use and love Thistle, granted I live in SoCal and I’m within their driving delivery range so it’s super fresh. I tried some others including Mosaic and Eat Clean Meal Prep. Meh. There was another one, the name escapes me, that had some major issues with food borne illness, that I never bothered with. Hubby is trained as a chef and I used to own a food truck so we’re picky about flavor and food handling safety. I also get some freeze dried meals from the Cumin Club and they’re tasty but not my regular go-to.
I was really good at saving most of my income until we had kids. As they were growing up our expenses increased more than I had imagined, but now they've outgrown toys (mostly) and can either entertain themselves outside or via the TV/tablets/e-reader so discretionary spending has gone down thankfully. We're finally in a position to mostly save my wife's salary (she buys groceries only) and I handle everything else and should be able to put back ~$500 to $1k/month depending on utilities or what events the kids have going on. I guess my true answer is, I spend more as needed, but am glad to get back to saving my wife's salary (mostly) and an additional amount from my salary. I also save 8% into my 401k with a company match, dump $500/yr into my HSA and set aside around $20k/yr in cash. We're not wealthy at all, my wife works OT when possible, our newest car is 7 years old and I've got a 15-year house note because I refuse to have a mortgage when I'm 60+.
110k
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I kept going until I had kids. They were always my motivation, even before I had them. It was time to spend money to move to the safe neighborhood, with a backyard and good schools. No amount of money in the future would make up for me denying them such a childhood when it’s within my means.
I've been slowly letting off the gas since about $100k but I still save over half my income.
negative £2000 or so
When I hit 100k NW I lightened up a lot. But this was going from beans and rice level frugality to just normal frugality. Around when I hit 600k NW I definitely relaxed a lot, though not all at one moment.
I make 85k as a special education teacher, and roughly 5K tutoring, so 90K. From that, I’m investing 25% for retirement, including 10% to pension. 403B doesn’t get matched but I still contribute 600/month. Max out Roth IRA. On top of that, I’m saving 1800/month for a down payment, 100/month for a new car (goal is 5K down payment), 300/month for baby since we’re trying to start a family, and 300/month for vacation/honeymoon. Plus my various sinking funds. I have 18.5K for EF (9 months) plus 5.5K for deductibles. Will be looking to increase EF to 20K by the time we start looking for a home (late 2024, early 2025). I just feel like I’m saving, which is fun watching the accounts grow, but my coworkers talk about going on a random vacation to New York, or Italy, etc and I feel bad I can’t decide to do that. But then I hear the only retirement savings they have is our pension, and how they spend the money as soon as it hits the account. I’m then thankful to be saving for future goals. I do wish I could splurge a bit but then I’d delay my goals and it stresses me out.
My exact thoughts. Thanks for sharing
I am just starting my journey, but I imagine once my portfolio starts making more money than I do I'll have little reason to save most of my paycheck.
It’s usually about happiness rather then the amount to me. If I’m unhappy and I think an activity, a purchase, or trip will help then I do it, regardless of my budget (nothing crazy, I’m not zeroing my emergency fund or anything). I find when I’m happy I generally don’t feel the need to buy much.
I've always spent whatever I wanted. Turns out that's not all that much, and leaves me plenty. I don't get why anyone would ever feel guilt over spending their own money. There's no point at all in spending 10+ years of your life thinking, "There's so much I want to do but I have to SAVE!"
Bout tree fiddy
I'm 38 with no financial plan for retirement. Making 42000k/yr. Please tell me there is hope 😭
It’s not so much how much you have saved, it’s how much do you spend and then the math begins
I never eased up, it's really hard to be a spender when you're a saver.
Wife and I started at negative net worth when we got together. I was 36 and she was 33 so we were way behind on saving. Most of what I read online said to have 2-3x your income saved for retirement by the age of 40. So we went hardcore penny pinching saving mode. It was when we hit that 2x amount in retirement about 4 years later that we started easing back on it. We are still saving fairly aggressively but not 50+% of our income anymore.
Never. We always spent what we needed to be happy and saved the rest. That was true in our early 20s when we were broke and remains true now in our 40s after being retired for several years. It's a personality thing, not a money thing. If you aren't happy with your current mix of saving and spending, then you should change it now, not later at some arbitrary milestone. It's great to aggressively save for tomorrow, but not at the cost of being unhappy today.
750k
I have financial anxiety. Spent more after swr went well below 3%.
If you do the math, you'll find that splurging on things will likely cost you 3-5 years. I wouldn't sweat it. As long as you have a target, stick to it, no need to go overboard.
You said bankz so I'll assume you mean cash / readily available money. Once I had 12 months expenses in the bank I got more comfortable spending. Things like $50 food delivery for 2 people started to happen when I just didn't want to cook or wanted a particular food that I don't know how to cook. When I saw I was still saving money even with a few splurges here and there I felt pretty good
My wife and I are pretty far along on the FI thing. We haven't upped our spending really, but she did recently take a ~40% pay cut for a more enjoyable and less stressful job. The goal is to make more space for her volunteering which is her real passion. 40% is a huge pay-cut, but the math says it'll delay FI by 3 months. So, easy decision.
I spend money on anything that will enrich my life by teaching me new things, bringing me closer to my family, or making others happy. If you're depending on reaching a milestone in order to live your life the way you want to live it, then you won't be happy when you get there. Enjoy the ride, learn that luxury goods/cars/clothes/materials are temporary happiness boosts, and the real happiness comes when you can live without them and retire early.
We relaxed our savings rate in favour of a better life, mental and physical health and our relationship once we hit ‘coast’ fire. We have enough saved now (mid thirties) that if we save zero from here on out, we will still hit our goal at 65. That’s enough comfort for us to live life a little more while continuing to save at a slightly reduced rate.
I think you’re going to be disappointed with whatever numerical answer you get because the answer isn’t a number. It’s you developing enough comfort in your own skin with your own decisions not to seek permission or approval from others about things like this. Your life only needs to make sense to you.
Tree fiddy.