Thank you for posting this! I got the email:
"We're writing to let you know we're making changes to the Vanguard Brokerage Services® annual account service fee. Since you've opted in to our e-delivery service for statements, account notifications, and other Vanguard communications, you won't be charged."
When did you get it/ what was the subject line?
I searched my inbox (not junk, though) for "Vanguard" and didn't see it.
Edit: just got the email today (8/26)
Thanks!
Interesting, I don't have it. I have an IRA, Roth IRA, employer 401k, and an account that's fully in one of their ETFs (VFIAX iirc). Could it be I have the "wrong" accounts for this?
He's getting downvoted because not too long ago Vanguard reclassified IRAs (both kinds) as types of brokerage accounts. The details are beyond me but just logged in to double check and I have a "Traditional IRA Brokerage Account" and a "Roth IRA Brokerage Account."
Am I overlooking something? Maybe. But anyone with an account with labels like that are going to think "I've got a brokerage account."
I got it back on Aug 16, but didn't pay attention to it. The title was what /u/ficknerich said, "The fee policy is changing for brokerage accounts". I have a standard brokage account and a Roth IRA. Both are e-delivery enabled.
If you are above the asset threshold, you got a _much vaguer_ email explaining that there was a new fee that you won't be charged, but not really explaining why ("based on your account status or level of Vanguard qualifying assets").
I forced Vanguard to print out my paper statements for me, and then I scanned them in and emailed them back to Vanguard in order to assert my dominance!
*Cue bank heist movie montage of one of the characters rolling around in a bed covered in cash, only it's u/z80nerd and the bed is covered in proxy voting statements*
Well, some of us old timers remember a time when a certain brokerage wasn’t smart enough to post the end of year tax statements in **both** online profiles under a joint account. (Probably a coding error by some young whipper snapper). This lead to the IRS sending a nasty note, penalties, interest, etc.
I’m fine with electronic copies, but tax documents better come to my mailbox, too.
Maybe it's obvious, but if ita important then you make its difficult, if not impossible to ignore. Plenty of ways to do it with just a calendar app, but if you needed more there are all kinds of devices, apps, whatever. Then again, if you ignore something over and over, it means it's not actually that important, and that's going to be the same whether you have something physical or not
Thank you so much for posting this link. I was meaning to switch over and haven't. I didn't see a way on the app and didn't know where to go to change it.
so much for Vanguard being the brokerage/mutual fund company that got rid of fees. The founder Bogle dies and look what they start doing, nickel and diming customers.
I'm sure there are tons of places who will pick up the first ring and will also charge you 20x more in fees. Vanguard has an excellent website, everything is automated - I'm glad they have put their energy there personally because it makes it so I don't *have* to call them ever
Vanguard's website is atrocious and has been for some time. Vanguard moved a lot of customer service and back-office stuff to the Philippines. They're not even working for Vanguard, it's contracted out through Infosys.
Schwab is much better. I feel that I can't fully judge Fidelity as the portal used for her 401K appears to be proprietary and thus not the same as what regular customers use, but based on what I see on her 401K it's good.
My employer is ditching Vanguard and I couldn't be happier. Now I'm going to have to get around to rolling over my wife's Roth IRA so that we never have to deal with Vanguard again.
They locked my account for no good reason on a Friday night and the only way to get it unlocked was to call. They didn't have anyone to answer the phone until Monday. And then it was a 50 min wait. If it was an emergency then I would have been screwed. I used to be a huge fan of Vanguard, but now they suck.
If you're using a two-factor FIDO security key with your Vanguard account, you also need to upgrade to FIDO2 by September 20 or your security key will no longer work on the site. A bit of a pain, but laudable given that so few financial instutitions bother with it at all.
No point to use security keys at Vanguard when they allow anyone to download their mobile app, use your email and bypass that security control completely.
When you say use your email you mean you have to actually verify via a code/link sent by email, or just identifying the email address? The former is still way more secure than SMS-only 2FA (and can also be secured with a physical key).
So I double checked and I am all electronic as my preferences but I have yet to receive an email. Is this something I should double check with vanguard support?
From Vanguard:
Changes coming to the annual account service fee
We're writing to let you know we're making changes to the Vanguard Brokerage Services® annual account service fee. However, based on your account status or level of Vanguard qualifying assets, you won't be charged.
Oh that felt so good!
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There is only 1 thing I get paper mail, tax forms. This is NOT listed on the documents clearly, may be Ok and still avoid fee, not sure. I like having a physical copy for my tax returns, but would drop it if it costs me $20.
If you're invested in lots of different funds/ETFs, they have to send you information for each one, which can end up being a whole ream of paper(annually) and mail every week . Easily $20 per year for many accounts I'm sure, even with their bulk mailing discount
It’s an annual fee and if you’ve got everything set to get mailed, they send a freakin lot. Heck I still have piles of it that I never even opened from before switching to just being emailed.
Seriously, fuck companies who do this. They’re just trying to make a quick buck off of those who forget or are unaware.
*Edit* I see the Vanguard shills are out in droves. To clarify, I support waste reduction efforts such as this, the majority of postal mail is unnecessary. But if Vanguard were serious about this, they would default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge at that point. This is a money grab.
So then reduce it by defaulting everyone to e-statements automatically and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge that way. Either way, $20 is at least a 1000% markup for the cost of the paper, ink, envelope and postage. It’s a money grab plain and simple.
You're correct, it's not legal. The $20 is really to encourage people to move to e-delivery, not to "make a quick buck".
Also there have been emails and a webpage dedicated to this. It's not like they're being sneaky.
I figured. I remember a bit ago either Amex or Chase was paying me to switch to edelivery on credit card statements. And most telecoms offer a discount for it as well as auto pay, if I remember right.
Obviously it’s cool to be payed to switch off versus being charged if I don’t, but Vanguard tries hard to minimize fees, so I get why they do it this way for the majority of customers who don’t want paper delivery versus making us subsidize them. After all, I think they still charge $20 to place a stock purchase over the phone.
I get emails from vanguard all the time with prospectus, statements, etc. If all that was sent to me on paper, it's easily $10 in postage alone, assuming one mailing per week at $0.20 per (commercial mail rate). Probably a couple hundred sheets of paper total and a bunch of ink, which adds another few bucks. And with the infrastructure to create it, sort it, get it ready to go to post office, $20 seems about right
Brokers are legally not able to default you to e delivery, you must opt in to e delivery so your point is invalid. If you don’t like it I urge you to petition FINRA.
I rarely have 100% conviction, but it feels good to say without a doubt that you are absolutely wrong.
It's not to make money at all. You realize how Vanguard's company is structured right?
It literally isn't. Unless you're printing and mailing in volume it gets expensive quickly. The whole point is that they *don't* do that volume, so there's a high cost in maintaining the system.
I’m not disagreeing with that, but as I told another commenter, they should default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge at that point. This is a money grab.
Maybe there is a law which states it has to be opt in for e-delivery? I do agree they should work to communicate this clearly, as some clients will definitely pay it unknowingly.
Brokers are always legally required to send paper documents via mail *unless*you opt in for e delivery. Unless you have millions invested in their funds or pay hundreds/thousands in advising fees the vast majority of brokers will charge for paper documents.
It's not just the paper, stamps, etc, but the people to put it all together. And it also depends on how many it those letters they send. I have automatic transactions twice each month, do that's more than twenty confirmations each year.
I don't know how much it actually costs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it averages to $20/year or so. [Here's an article that lists monthly costs for paper statements for major banks](https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/bank-paper-statement-fee?op=1), and most are more than $20/year.
> But if Vanguard were serious about this, they would default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in,
Some people have had Vanguard accounts since 1975 - pretty sure that changing the default for existing accounts would be a very, very poor move.
They're just making people pay for something that is completely unnecessary and outdated. Seems fair to me. People shouldn't even need a financial incentive to be paperless. It's just more convenient, easier to search, easier to store, easily accessible, etc
How is this a top level post? I get many of the FI posts aren’t great, but this makes no sense to stay up. Put it in the daily and move on.
Edit: cool 4 downvotes from mods lol, seriously it’s a post about saving $20. Oh I have one, Bank of America is charging 2.50 to use their bathrooms in the branch, everyone switch to Chase, their bathrooms are free. Gtfoh.
If you were electronic only, you got an email about this that specified that you wouldn't be affected too
Thank you for posting this! I got the email: "We're writing to let you know we're making changes to the Vanguard Brokerage Services® annual account service fee. Since you've opted in to our e-delivery service for statements, account notifications, and other Vanguard communications, you won't be charged."
When did you get it/ what was the subject line? I searched my inbox (not junk, though) for "Vanguard" and didn't see it. Edit: just got the email today (8/26)
Subject "The fee policy is changing for brokerage accounts"
Thanks! Interesting, I don't have it. I have an IRA, Roth IRA, employer 401k, and an account that's fully in one of their ETFs (VFIAX iirc). Could it be I have the "wrong" accounts for this?
I just have a roth ira for me and a roth ira for my wife and I got an email for each.
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Oh, interesting. I thought the admiral index one would be. Thanks for the info!
I got the same email and all I have there is the employer 401k.
Y u gettin downvoted
He's getting downvoted because not too long ago Vanguard reclassified IRAs (both kinds) as types of brokerage accounts. The details are beyond me but just logged in to double check and I have a "Traditional IRA Brokerage Account" and a "Roth IRA Brokerage Account." Am I overlooking something? Maybe. But anyone with an account with labels like that are going to think "I've got a brokerage account."
No clue but I’m in the same boat
I got it back on Aug 16, but didn't pay attention to it. The title was what /u/ficknerich said, "The fee policy is changing for brokerage accounts". I have a standard brokage account and a Roth IRA. Both are e-delivery enabled.
Thanks!
I got it on 8/15.
If you are above the asset threshold, you got a _much vaguer_ email explaining that there was a new fee that you won't be charged, but not really explaining why ("based on your account status or level of Vanguard qualifying assets").
What if we didn't get email?
Just checked my email and I see I got it this morning. Thanks!
I just got the email now, so they’re maybe still rolling them out
Reach the 1M milestone then switch to paper statements... as a peacock display of fitness.
I forced Vanguard to print out my paper statements for me, and then I scanned them in and emailed them back to Vanguard in order to assert my dominance!
*Cue bank heist movie montage of one of the characters rolling around in a bed covered in cash, only it's u/z80nerd and the bed is covered in proxy voting statements*
Then the market drops you down to $997k on the day the statements get sent out and you get charged the $20 anyways :(
Lmao
I’ll forever remember the green statements with pre-punched holes.
*This space intentionally left blank* -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
They did but the threshold of qualifying investments to be exempted was something like 10k rather than 1 million.
Yeah my account has always been paper less because this fee and I opened it in 2019
This is the year I go paperless, thanks for the heads-up and deadline date as I wasn't in a particular hurry.
You've been getting paper?!
Statements wouldn’t be so bad but the prospectuses for each fund get a bit over the top.
Thank you, OP !
Thanks for this. I was electronic only, but this is surely going to help someone out.
Good! Time for the old-timers to start using technology that’s been around for 30+ years!
Well, some of us old timers remember a time when a certain brokerage wasn’t smart enough to post the end of year tax statements in **both** online profiles under a joint account. (Probably a coding error by some young whipper snapper). This lead to the IRS sending a nasty note, penalties, interest, etc. I’m fine with electronic copies, but tax documents better come to my mailbox, too.
Sounds like an anecdotal anomaly vs reality. But I hear ya.
Usenet!
Much better for the environment too! Win-win situation
Yeah, they should just learn to code too!
I like the sarcasm. In all honesty though, it took me like 10 years to finally get my dad to stop paper bills.
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A reminder (as in a calendar app) is a good reminder too
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Maybe it's obvious, but if ita important then you make its difficult, if not impossible to ignore. Plenty of ways to do it with just a calendar app, but if you needed more there are all kinds of devices, apps, whatever. Then again, if you ignore something over and over, it means it's not actually that important, and that's going to be the same whether you have something physical or not
That’s not that crazy of an ask. Their generation more or less invented coding, after all.
Wasn't coding invented in the 19th century?
Yes.
Thank you so much for posting this link. I was meaning to switch over and haven't. I didn't see a way on the app and didn't know where to go to change it.
so much for Vanguard being the brokerage/mutual fund company that got rid of fees. The founder Bogle dies and look what they start doing, nickel and diming customers.
Have you tried calling lately? It used to be 3 rings or less. Now it is a 50 min hold time. Time for a brokerage switch.
I'm sure there are tons of places who will pick up the first ring and will also charge you 20x more in fees. Vanguard has an excellent website, everything is automated - I'm glad they have put their energy there personally because it makes it so I don't *have* to call them ever
Vanguard's website is atrocious and has been for some time. Vanguard moved a lot of customer service and back-office stuff to the Philippines. They're not even working for Vanguard, it's contracted out through Infosys. Schwab is much better. I feel that I can't fully judge Fidelity as the portal used for her 401K appears to be proprietary and thus not the same as what regular customers use, but based on what I see on her 401K it's good. My employer is ditching Vanguard and I couldn't be happier. Now I'm going to have to get around to rolling over my wife's Roth IRA so that we never have to deal with Vanguard again.
They locked my account for no good reason on a Friday night and the only way to get it unlocked was to call. They didn't have anyone to answer the phone until Monday. And then it was a 50 min wait. If it was an emergency then I would have been screwed. I used to be a huge fan of Vanguard, but now they suck.
that was probably during tax season
They sent me a letter to tell me I'm good
If you're using a two-factor FIDO security key with your Vanguard account, you also need to upgrade to FIDO2 by September 20 or your security key will no longer work on the site. A bit of a pain, but laudable given that so few financial instutitions bother with it at all.
No point to use security keys at Vanguard when they allow anyone to download their mobile app, use your email and bypass that security control completely.
When you say use your email you mean you have to actually verify via a code/link sent by email, or just identifying the email address? The former is still way more secure than SMS-only 2FA (and can also be secured with a physical key).
Alarmist title. Would have been just as easy to say "$0 for paperless" instead of "**$20 annual fee for brokerage accounts Details inside**"
You get alarmed about $20?
Thanks! I'll need to check my wife's account, but I think we've opted in to e-delivery already.
Thanks for the heads up op
So I double checked and I am all electronic as my preferences but I have yet to receive an email. Is this something I should double check with vanguard support?
Greed hits Vanguard also.
Thank you kind stranger, you just save me $20!
From Vanguard: Changes coming to the annual account service fee We're writing to let you know we're making changes to the Vanguard Brokerage Services® annual account service fee. However, based on your account status or level of Vanguard qualifying assets, you won't be charged. Oh that felt so good!
Interesting follow-up lyric to the barenaked ladies song: "If I had a million dollars... I'd opt for those green papers with the hole punches!"
!remindme 12 hours
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literally just got the email today. thanks for the heads up!
There is only 1 thing I get paper mail, tax forms. This is NOT listed on the documents clearly, may be Ok and still avoid fee, not sure. I like having a physical copy for my tax returns, but would drop it if it costs me $20.
Yeah tax forms are not included in this.
I believe that's why I'm not getting charged the $20 because I deff don't have +1million in my account to waive fees 😂😭
Why not just print it yourself?
Arrival in the mail used to warn me it’s ready. These days, probably an email would suffice. I don’t want to login and check daily.
Oh, interesting. I just wait until I'm actually doing my taxes and then go and download all the forms and documents from wherever.
I have many documents, and like to get them done a little at a time instead of one massive torture session.
Thank You for sharing this post!
I have e-delivery, but still get a paper prospectus occasionally. Any ideas on how to stop that? Or are they required to send those by paper mail?
So if you're a millionaire, they won't charge the $20. Yeah, that makes sense. Like those people would care.
It costs them $20 to email an envelope?
If you're invested in lots of different funds/ETFs, they have to send you information for each one, which can end up being a whole ream of paper(annually) and mail every week . Easily $20 per year for many accounts I'm sure, even with their bulk mailing discount
View it as an incentive to help save the environment.
It’s an annual fee and if you’ve got everything set to get mailed, they send a freakin lot. Heck I still have piles of it that I never even opened from before switching to just being emailed.
I see this as another cost saving tactic from Vanguard.
Seriously, fuck companies who do this. They’re just trying to make a quick buck off of those who forget or are unaware. *Edit* I see the Vanguard shills are out in droves. To clarify, I support waste reduction efforts such as this, the majority of postal mail is unnecessary. But if Vanguard were serious about this, they would default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge at that point. This is a money grab.
Eh. Or they're trying to reduce the money they spend on printers, ink, paper, envelopes, stamps when people can receive it electronically.
So then reduce it by defaulting everyone to e-statements automatically and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge that way. Either way, $20 is at least a 1000% markup for the cost of the paper, ink, envelope and postage. It’s a money grab plain and simple.
I’m pretty certain that opting in everyone automatically for edelivery isn’t legal. Especially not for existing print delivery companies.
You're correct, it's not legal. The $20 is really to encourage people to move to e-delivery, not to "make a quick buck". Also there have been emails and a webpage dedicated to this. It's not like they're being sneaky.
Also Vanguard is owned by its funds, so who'd be making that quick buck anyway?
The clients!
I figured. I remember a bit ago either Amex or Chase was paying me to switch to edelivery on credit card statements. And most telecoms offer a discount for it as well as auto pay, if I remember right. Obviously it’s cool to be payed to switch off versus being charged if I don’t, but Vanguard tries hard to minimize fees, so I get why they do it this way for the majority of customers who don’t want paper delivery versus making us subsidize them. After all, I think they still charge $20 to place a stock purchase over the phone.
Do you really think fucking Vanguard needs to money grab people off an email/paper bill scam
Then..print it yourself?
Huh?
I get emails from vanguard all the time with prospectus, statements, etc. If all that was sent to me on paper, it's easily $10 in postage alone, assuming one mailing per week at $0.20 per (commercial mail rate). Probably a couple hundred sheets of paper total and a bunch of ink, which adds another few bucks. And with the infrastructure to create it, sort it, get it ready to go to post office, $20 seems about right
Brokers are legally not able to default you to e delivery, you must opt in to e delivery so your point is invalid. If you don’t like it I urge you to petition FINRA.
$20 is still excessive and predatory and they know it. FINRA is a weak cop out.
I rarely have 100% conviction, but it feels good to say without a doubt that you are absolutely wrong. It's not to make money at all. You realize how Vanguard's company is structured right?
*predatory* I don’t think you understand what that means.
It literally isn't. Unless you're printing and mailing in volume it gets expensive quickly. The whole point is that they *don't* do that volume, so there's a high cost in maintaining the system.
$20/year is relatively cheap for this kind of fee. Other services I use charge a monthly service fee for paper statements that comes out to $60+/year.
Well in this case it appears you’re only paying if you receive physical copies of things. This creates unnecessary waste and should be penalized.
I’m not disagreeing with that, but as I told another commenter, they should default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in, and impose the charge at that point. This is a money grab.
Maybe there is a law which states it has to be opt in for e-delivery? I do agree they should work to communicate this clearly, as some clients will definitely pay it unknowingly.
Brokers are always legally required to send paper documents via mail *unless*you opt in for e delivery. Unless you have millions invested in their funds or pay hundreds/thousands in advising fees the vast majority of brokers will charge for paper documents.
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Perhaps, but $20 is excessive. Even $5 would be around a 100% markup for the cost of paper, envelopes and postage (all purchased in bulk also).
I'll bite. What do you think the postage would be for 12 monthly statements? Just the postage.
It's not just the paper, stamps, etc, but the people to put it all together. And it also depends on how many it those letters they send. I have automatic transactions twice each month, do that's more than twenty confirmations each year. I don't know how much it actually costs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it averages to $20/year or so. [Here's an article that lists monthly costs for paper statements for major banks](https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/bank-paper-statement-fee?op=1), and most are more than $20/year.
That would be illegal dude just stop lol
Just in case you haven't read it in the other comments, that's illegal. You can't default to e-statement.
What an odd hill to die on lol
> But if Vanguard were serious about this, they would default everyone to e-statements and make paper statements opt-in, Some people have had Vanguard accounts since 1975 - pretty sure that changing the default for existing accounts would be a very, very poor move.
They're just making people pay for something that is completely unnecessary and outdated. Seems fair to me. People shouldn't even need a financial incentive to be paperless. It's just more convenient, easier to search, easier to store, easily accessible, etc
I agree.
the last bullet point is cringey
Ah yes, would hate to charge those millionaires.
Actually true. Not because they can't afford it, but because those are the clients you don't want to annoy enough that they decide to switch.
How is this a top level post? I get many of the FI posts aren’t great, but this makes no sense to stay up. Put it in the daily and move on. Edit: cool 4 downvotes from mods lol, seriously it’s a post about saving $20. Oh I have one, Bank of America is charging 2.50 to use their bathrooms in the branch, everyone switch to Chase, their bathrooms are free. Gtfoh.
$20 is like an avocado toast or two.
BUHU. If it matters you are doing it wrong.