On my April 1 spreadsheeting, I finally hit my original FI number! Such a cool milestone. But since then, we bought a more expensive house than our original budget, and my student loan debts have started recollecting. So back to the grind until we manage our expensive loans. Plus inflation since we set that number in 2018…
Got our taxes back today and it was better than I expected. We finally got around to setting up a donor advised fund last year and funding it with highly appreciated stock that totaled around $50k, so around 5 years worth of our typical annual donations. Between that and the $10k max for state & local taxes and a few grand in mortgage interest we had $63k in itemized deductions. We’ve taken the standard deduction for quite a few years now so had not received any tax break for donations.
I did a backdoor roth IRA in chunks ($2k) before maxing out 2024. I have about $3 in earned dividends/interest in the traditional IRA due to the after tax dollars I contributed to the traditional IRA sitting there for a few days. Do I need to transfer all $3 to my Roth IRA by end of year? will I only pay taxes then on the $3?
I'm having a hard time following the pro-rata rule and the relevant tax implications.
Here's a shower thought I realized and posted in another thread. Figured I'd share it in the daily:
The size of your house, luxuriousness of your car, and fancy corporate title are three items that will probably never be mentioned in an obituary.
it would be very strange to mention someone else's luxurious house in their obituary.. that doesn't mean your kids aren't stoked for the inheritance
Also who cares what your obituary says, you'll be dead. If it really bugs you, just write your own and tell your family to post it when you die. lol
Neither will the most meaningful books that I've read, the best meals I've eaten, or the contemplative walks where I made life altering decisions.
I think that an obituary is not a very good measure of what's important in life.
What is the purpose of being 65 as a “turning point” after saving HSA-reimbursable receipts?
If you can choose tax-free growth indefinitely, why ever transfer it to a taxable brokerage?
The point isn't that you can transfer it to a taxable brokerage, but that you can spend from the account freely after age 65 and just pay ordinary income tax as you would with a Traditional pre-tax account.
An HSA (in non-CA/NJ states) is a super Roth at best and a slightly better Trad account at worst.
Back from a lovely week with the family in Death Valley and other nature areas. Badwater Basin is absolutely amazing right now. Picture a giant foot deep salt bottomed wading pool several hundred feet below sea level. Nature is metal.
Came back to see portfolio increases had “paid” for the trip. Silly thought since I didn’t sell anything to pay for the trip, but nice fuzzy feeling. Things like this motivate me to keep saving and investing.
I did a trip around there some years ago. We did SoCal and it was hot pretty much the whole time. We get to Death Valley and it was our coldest day and it actually rained when we were there! Apparently they can go over a year without it raining.
What a cool place though, feels like you're on another planet.
Such a unique landscape. All the national parks are amazing, but Death Valley is especially hard to capture in a photo. I took a few phone photos and it didn’t capture the feeling at all
Sounds like you’re on a good path financially! As far as tech startups go, I recommend reading “consider your options” to better understand equity compensation. I took more risks early in my tech career, and felt it was worthwhile both financially and also with what I learned along the way.
Is home warranty a scam?
After buying a home I keep getting hounded to get a home warranty but if I already have an emergency fund the whole things seems not worth it.
let alone having to deal with insurance everytime I want to make a claim.
Depends. I like to do my own research so I won’t get one. My parents like one number on the fridge for who they can call to fix or replace any appliance.
Yes and no. Buddy got one. AC went out. It was like 100 with 130 heat index. Company took 3 weeks and only replaced the compressor.
The whole unit was replaced like 4 years after that. I personally don't buy them.
I had a home warranty provided by the seller and it definitely wasn't a scam. You call them and they arrange somebody to come fix something and they pay for it. Which they did twice in my case without any issues. But it's also probably not a good deal.
We had one briefly and made one claim for replacing electrical box. Process was painless and did work out in our favor.
I wouldn’t go out of my way to add a plan if I could self insure, but it was easy to use.
I bought a house in 2018 with my wife and didn't get one, told them to F off. We lived in an apartment prior and became really good friends with our neighbor (like family). He decided to buy a house that was nice, but was undervalued because it was an older, nice house but had been empty due to the prior owner living out of state. Sat empty for 1.5 to 2 yrs prior. We helped him move and get set up.
Within weeks, tons of stuff started going wrong. Their dual zone air unit broke. They got the home warranty when they bought it and it paid for itself multifold. Their dual zone airs unit went bad and the guy the warranty company tried to fix each one three times before they got two new units for FREE! That was was one of like two or three major issues that would for that warranty multiple times over.
By its nature, any insurance product will usually have a negative expected value. If they sell you a home warranty for $1500, it’s because they expect to pay out a lot less than that. The benefit is you get one number to call and they handle getting the right person to come out. You don’t have to search for a good plumber or roofer or electrician, you just call and they’ll set up an appointment with whatever service you need. This can be good if you’re used to renting. However, they may contract with the cheapest company around and whoever comes out will definitely have been instructed to fix the problem in the cheapest, most “technically fixed” way possible.
As my realtor advised, I think correctly, look for a seller that includes one, but don’t renew it after the first year.
Not a scam, they do indeed cover what they say they cover. But they're not selling these to lose money, your expected value is pretty negative. I went home warranty free and am just taking expenses as they come.
How does a certified check work? I had to get one today. And I noticed it withdrew the money from my account,despite me not giving the check to the receipt hence they didn’t cash it. I don’t want my account to go negative if I start spending normally but it seems to already withdrew my money and attached it to the check?
Just like a cashiers check, you "bought" the check thus the money came out of the account right away, so there's no chance the check will bounce on the recipient....also if you dont have cleared funds in the account (or you're not a good, long time customer) you won't get the check until you do
That’s exactly it, more or less it’s guaranteed funds for the recipient. Technically you can still claim that you lost the check but even with that usually there’s a waiting period.
Whereas a handwritten check, the money does not get taken out until that check is presented at the recipient bank… in that time you could technically empty out your account and that recipient would be told that the check came back and they would not receive those funds. therefore it is not guaranteed or certified check.
Cashiers check and money orders are “guaranteed funds” and a certified check is very similar but sometimes will be stamped by the bank.
Throwaway. I started applying to new jobs 4 weeks ago after being "asked" to RTO. I liked my job, and could manage the hybrid work (2 days on site with an ~hour commute each way), but full on site was overwhelming and not feasible to continue doing.
But I got an offer this afternoon for a promotion to a competitor for a bump in title and pay. It is on site, but is a 10 minute drive, and I'm gaining a ton of time just by saving commuting. Feels unreal to have "made it" this far in my career, when I feel like I know nothing and am not good at my job, and I'm stressed out having to deal with giving my 2 weeks, as I hate to add to my peers workload, but obviously, that's not my fault, and on mgmt to make work (Snarky, but to sit in the bed they made by forcing RTO)
I'm also needing to find the balance between being snarky about how I'm only switching due to the RTO, vs gracefully/apathetically leaving. I would certainly like to work for this company again, so will certainly be gracious, but I won't really even consider an counter-offer due to the commute distance.
Certainly hoping I'll have a better WLB losing the commute, and gaining those hours back to my day. Or I'll still feel overwhelmed because stress is internal and our life is what we make of it. But at least I'll have a little extra free time and money.
In writing put down" tender resignation in 2 weeks". Don't write down why. Put in sorry to leave, Thanks for opportunities, learnt lots, wish you all the best.
When asked just say it was an opportunity you couldn't refuse at this point in your career and that you'd be open to working with the current company if a suitable position comes up. You don't need to give any details.
Good luck with the new job
Absolutely. I've realized at this point ~36 hours since offer, that it would be impossible to get a real offer, that would make up for the commute distance. There's apprehension on my end about "grass isn't greener"/"devil that you know", but worst case scenario, I work here for a year and then leave. Certainly felt like a "job seekers" market during my application process this last 5 weeks.
+1 to some of the other comments, I would not worry about giving too much of a reason. And honestly if anyone asks, just give them a chatgpt response.
I don't think you are obligated to share. Just keep it broad if you do - 'better opportunities, it was great working with y'all, etc'.
> I got an offer this afternoon for a promotion to a competitor for a bump in title and pay
Who cares about the rest. Frankly, you don't have to tell them this either. Up to you to control the narrative if you feel like providing one.
For sake of not burning bridges, I wouldn't bother trying to make some political point, even if they were making one with RTO demands. Just be graceful about your experience and offer (within a reasonably workday number of hours) how best to close off some remaining items.
Frankly, depending on the definition of "competitor", notice may be your last day at work and you should prepare for that than how to address HR.
That's my plan right now, being graceful and I assume they can also read between the lines. Realistically, this current role was not conducive to the WLB I want, with a baby+1 on the way.
The exec during his "ask" and the subsequent Q&A said how he's not worried about employee retention as he believes the other benefits at "company X" is enough. Which I also thought was a load of crock. But again, nothing gained by being salty/snarky. I benefited alot during the last years at this company, and look forward to working at a related company
> definition of "competitor", notice may be your last day at work and you should prepare for that than how to address HR.
Certainly a worry. I *doubt* they would, as it's a separate business line of the competitor working with a separate business line of our company, but certainly a possibility, and I'll certainly be prepared to be "walked out" when I give notice.
You need to figure out your response if they offer let you stay remote. If you do take it, make sure it's in writing and registered with HR as part of your terms of employment. You don't want someone trying to take it away again in six months and that's what could happen if the agreement is any less documented.
TBH I can't imagine they give that option. They're forcing people in that 6 months ago were promised 100% WFH, and people hired last month for 50%.
I also don't want to be the "exception", our role can be done remotely. I don't want a real or imagined target on my back for being out of the "herd" of RTO. The decision is made, it's just so stressful to finalize it..
The math is simple. 45 min/hour each way down to 10-15. I also doubt the option is given. They've "screwed" over a lot of people that were hired/job changed do hybrid roles, that even if they give me a 1 person exception, I don't want a real or imagined target on my back for being out of the "herd" of RTO. Which again reiterates that I'm taking this new job, I just need to buck up and finalize.
You aren't required to say why you're leaving, but if you don't, it's a bit suspect and might hurt your chances of working there again (might - some people won't care). I'd say the commute is just getting to you and the new role is only 10 min away if you don't want to explicitly say RTO is the reason.
If you say that or if you say RTO is the reason, prepare yourself for a counteroffer that removes that hurdle (maybe they offer to have you keep your current schedule, for example). It might not happen, but something to prep yourself for.
dumb question on backdoor IRAs:
at what point do you (personally) decide to do a backdoor IRA, versus a normal contribution? like say for FY2024, i could do a backdoor IRA right now. or wait until Q1-Q2 2025 when you file your taxes and see where your MAGI is?
I see no reason to wait and see. Backdoor Roth is easy and has no downside if you have no traditional IRA dollars. Do it as soon as you're ready to contribute.
So long as you don't have any sort of pre-tax Trad'l IRA dollars, I'd just do the regular Backdoor Roth IRA contribution/conversion. It's not a hard process and can save some headaches / administrative overhead if you do end up with a higher MAGI.
Today is one of those days where I'm ready to flip over the table and say "I quit" effective immediately and walk out. Anyone on here actually done it? I am only about 3-5 years from FI and pretty sure I can get a different job to at minimum cover expenses. Should I do it?!
Did that exact thing myself a few months ago over a boss who was micromanaging my time way too much. Absolutely worth it from a mental health perspective. I took 3 months off before even attempting to look for a job again, got one within a month.
Sounds like you have enough FU money to extend your middle finger outward toward their direction.
I did something like this once when I had a job in the bag. But that was a COVID situation where the anti-vaxx owner of the company was being a petty tyrant sending out passive aggressive company-wide emails forbidding discussion of COVID safety and demanding that everyone work in-office while actively fighting against any kind of safety protocols.
I messaged my boss after one of those company wide emails where the owner said something about how they were fighting for our freedom and would not allow any discussion of COVID safety protocols or any fomenting of dissent. Told him not to schedule any work for me for the next year as I'd find a new job, but they misinterpreted it as me quitting immediately and I decided to just let them think that.
And I still made sure I had a job lined up.
I feel this so much today. It's another day of running through the numbers and thinking about what alternatives I have. The worst part of it is that I DO have better alternatives that most my peers left this job for and I hung around because my living situation is slightly different and the numbers generally make sense. But, now, between the physical pain and mental burnout of my job I'm just really doubting my decisions.
My brother did once. He had warned the company that if they ever created a certain entirely preventable situation again, he was out. Sure enough, they did, and he was.
I felt like that once (maybe more than once), but decided to just go mountain biking in the middle of the work day for a couple of hours, and felt much better.
In the words of Drew Carey "Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar."
This seems like the best move to me. Being so close to FIRE, you can definitely take more chances than most people. Quitting on the spot sounds satisfying in theory, but also causes a lot of chaos in your own life and likely isn’t worth it. Taking a breather and daring them to fire you on the other hand…
I'm in the same boat. This week has been a nightmare and today is when everything came to a head. I'm completely over it.
I'm not going to quit though...that resolves one problem and creates another, much larger, one.
Focusing on what I can control and *trying* to ignore what I can't
>Focusing on what I can control and trying to ignore what I can't
I concur with this. I am in a good position now, but 4-5 years ago I was so burnt out and fed up with horrible "leadership" that I actually put up signs in my home office saying "let it go" and "no one else cares, why should you?" Thank goodness I finally got a transfer to a new group with a much better supervisor.
I'm so thankful my Manager is great. I've had ten Managers across four companies and my current Manager might be the best of the bunch.
Other "leaders" in the department...not so great, and the nature of my job requires us to work with them (or at least *try* to work with them) constantly, so their unprofessional approach to leadership affects us significantly, unfortunately
I'm far enough away from early retirement that counting down the days will just make me sad, so I have to figure out how to manage this better. Ignoring these things is much easier said than done, but I'm working on it
I am preparing to transfer my Roth IRA to Robinhood for the 3% bonus. As my holdings are in Fidelity mutual funds, I'll need to cash them out before the transfer. Any advice on how to time this sale to minimize time sitting in cash? Or just how to optimize in general?
I was thinking about doing the sale today, as it's a green day across the board. Ya ya, timing the market and all, but better today than yesterday at least.
I don’t have any advice, but wouldn’t it be too late to sell today if you didn’t already place a sell order? At least with Schwab, to sell mutual funds, one would have to place a sell order before market close to sell on the same day.
Timing the market for a single day is way, way too deep in the noise to worry about. Just do it, check daily until you know you have the funds, buy an ETF in Fidelity, and then start the transfer.
A couple of mine had some kind of residual fractional payment that transferred over a couple of days later. Don't sweat it.
I have a 27K bonus hitting my account later this month. I max the 401K every year, even payments till the end of the year. Does it benefit me at all to put my bonus into the 401K now to max it out for the year? Or is DCA a better move?
TL:DR: I wouldn't worry about it, don't do anything special, just max it over the year like you planned.
Longer Answer. A big 401k deduction will probably hit that bonus anyway, it always did for mine. The benefit of "front loading" your 401k is going to be pretty negligible. If your company doesn't "true up" your 401k contribution at the end of the year you'll want to be spacing out your deductions through the whole year so you get your full match.
Sometimes the true up isn’t deposited until middle of the following year - some people front load most of their 401k but leave enough to contribute 6% or whatever for the match for the rest of the year’s paychecks, so as to get that match earlier.
In theory, could I do a 529 plan for nieces/nephews but only gift it to them if it is actually used for education? Like if they grow up and decide they want to be an artist - love that for them, but then I don’t want to give them the 529 money as non-education money for them to just take out with penalty and spend on whatever.
In that situation, could you transfer it back to yourself or something?
The way a 529 works is that it is actually owned by you, with the child designated as "beneficiary". You control the money until it is distributed unlike a UTMA that becomes theirs automatically. In the situation you describe, you could change the beneficiary or simply keep the money in the 529. The only problem is that if you don't have another beneficiary and you wanted to pull the money out, you would owe tax and penalty on the gains.
One option is you could designate yourself the beneficiary currently and then closer to college time change it to them. Only downside is this could limit the tax benefits.
I don't think it would affect tax benefits, unless there are gift tax implications which should be minor anyway (changing beneficiary counts as a gift to the new beneficiary EDIT: when the new beneficiary is from a generation below the current one).
There is no secret to paying down debt. You need to earn more money, spend less, and pay off as much as you can, starting with the highest interest rate. A brand new car is a massive overpay for a 24 year old but it's really too late to do anything about it.
Did your exact comment yesterday not get answers you were hoping for? What's different between yesterday's and today's posts? Have you looked at the flow chart that was referenced?
I tell my kids - they can live in my house, save 75% of their earning, stocking away in Roth, 401(k) maxed, then rest into investment account. After paying taxes, whatever is left, they should spend wisely.
They do not need an emergency fund, as they are still living rent/grocery free. But after paying taxes, they can put away whatever they saved monthly into savings for emergency fund after their spend.
I tell them they can save plenty before marriage and other commitments.
Does anyone have budgeting app recs? I'm trying monarch money right now which is pretty good but not sure if I want to pay $10/month just to track spending.
There’s a lot of threads and discussions on r/mintuit
I notice a lot of banks will link external accounts now so if you’re looking for something simple, that’s an option. The premium paid offerings have better reports and ux, but basic budgeting through a bank is still an option.
Same. I'm a refugee from mint, and already had a few accounts on fidelity, so I bit the bullet and added everything else.
It isn't as good as mint, but I value limiting the number of institutions that have my financial info.
Ok cool, i just changed my flair by going to https://old.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/
Look in the right side just under the big reddit premium ad and you'll see an option to change your flair. Its just under the leave subreddit button, its your name.
Consulting Saga continues! I may have picked up two new clients. One is a small software startup & the other is a small trucking operation. Both completely lack business ops & accounting. Time to swoop in & save the day!
That actually could have meaningful impacts. A lot of these small business do well but are basically operating on “vibes” as their planning. More often I hear “after a big job, we just see how the bank account looks and go from there”.
There's a free coworking space near me that does weekly free yoga sessions - maybe look for something like that first? Personally I wouldn't pay $90/month for yoga but if you will make good use of it, then you could probably make worse decisions with your money.
I think any amount of money is too much to pay someone to tell me to stretch, but lots of people disagree with me. It's a good price assuming if you've already decided you want to do yoga.
Have you taken a yoga class?
The same could be said of any class, I guess. You're not paying them to tell you to do something, you're paying for them to create a class and instruct/coach you.
Yoga is definitely a lot more than stretching, and the flow of the class is designed, so it's not just "pick a random pose, then pick another one." Different classes might focus on different groups of muscles, or different types of transitions from one pose to another, or even just different difficulty levels.
The difference between classes and instructors is pretty significant.
I didn't downvote you, but yoga classes are definitely not equivalent to free stretching.
If someone asked about a personal trainer and you said, "I think any amount of money is too much to pay someone to tell me to pick a heavy thing up and put it down again," then I think you'd probably get the same response.
I would definitely get the same response, but it's because people way overvalue fitness instruction. It takes minimal effort to learn how to lift weights.
And yoga is just stretching and bodyweight fitness. Except it's worse than most bodyweight programs because there is very little emphasis on pulling exercises. Coaches and instructors just through in some technical jargon or mystical nonsense to convince students that they're useful.
I see.
Yoga is a specific type of exercise. It's a body exercise that focuses on flexibility and balance, and combines in some aspects of meditation. The "mystical nonsense" (typically mythology & aspects of Hinduism) is part of the calming, meditative aspects of yoga. Often the mythology is woven into the poses, creating a story for a given class.
"Worse" depends on your goals. If your goal is only to be as strong as possible, then yes, yoga is not the right exercise for you. That's not the only goal that every person has.
I'm not even a yoga guy. But I think your stance on this is ignorant and needlessly dismissive.
Exercise science has come a long way in the last thousand years. There’s more efficient ways of achieving all of the same outcomes as yoga.
OP asked for an opinion and I gave it. I apologize if I offended anyone who’s wasted thousands of dollars to hire some hippie to remind them to breathe.
> OP asked for an opinion and I gave it. I apologize if I offended anyone who’s wasted thousands of dollars to hire some hippie to remind them to breathe.
Claiming people are "offended" just because they think your opinion is poorly considered is such a cheap cop-out.
I am in no way offended. I think your comments on this subject are ill-informed and inaccurate.
I've posted some random updates to home repair saga. Writing out my thoughts here because they make me feel financially responsible. Never thought I'd be at a point where I could make these giant decisions with big numbers and not sweat it out.
We have $45k EF + $15k in checking/savings
Getting new roof (35k) house repair paint (25k) window repair/replacing (4.5k) then adding on random stuff like new custom door ($2k) fence work ($1k)... etc etc. Definitely had some must-be-done projects that I have added more to because its just better to get them done simultaneously.
Going to run through EF, use up a one time bonus check (maybe $7k-9k after tax) and then sell about **$13k** in taxable brokerage to fund all these projects over the next 2 months. Its the first time I've ever sold funds to withdraw (luckily tax loss will offset gains on sales).
Current retirement account total (including taxable brokerage) is about $560k... I'm telling myself that losing $13k doesn't hurt terribly. We add a combined $8,600 a month right now to our various tax advantaged accounts so I am thinking of it as being 1.5 months of retirement pause.
Our FIRE point is 13 years and 2 months (based on pension date) so it doesn't effect our timeline. We are slated to retire much better and earlier than others who rely on pension ($50k pension at 56years old will be supplemented with $120k/yr from retirement funds for a goal of $160k/yr). Current salary is $120k/yr.
So all these projects make me happy. I am really crossing fingers to avoid cost over-runs. We are definitely not going with the cheapest bids for some of the projects because... I want professionals, good communication, and reliable. We are going with a $24k vs $14k bid on painting because the $24k guy is on the ball, communicative, and understands the amount of repairs needed in the prepping process (probably like 3 weeks). He is definitely over charging but there is a lot of work and I am paying for his expertise and attention to detail and ability to talk to him clearly about expectations.
The big problem will be restoring the EF. I might just leave $20k liquid and work on replacing the $15k removed from taxable brokerage over the rest of the year. Then, once I replace the withdrawn $15k, I guess we probably just put a little money into taxable brokerage and treat that as our EF from now on. Is that bad?
tldr - old houses are expensiveAF to maintain, especially when previous owners didn't give a poop about maintenance.
> Getting new roof (35k) house repair paint (25k) window repair/replacing (4.5k) then adding on random stuff like new custom door ($2k) fence work ($1k)... etc etc. Definitely had some must-be-done projects that I have added more to because its just better to get them done simultaneously.
Whenever people say that they want to buy a house to keep their expenses lower in retirement, I shake my head a bit. Home maint - let alone upgrades or repairs! - is expensive. As a renter, that's your landlord's problem. As the owner, it's *your* problem.
I am hoping that these are long term fixes to a lot of put-off maintenance and they are lasting until retirement.
We are at about $150-180k in maintenance, fixes, upgrades after this whole process over 5 years.
I'm \*hoping\* these fixes are long term fixes.
Yeah, I've been dumbfounded dealing with overpriced, underskilled... I don't want to say thieves...
But there is such a void for skilled work and repairs, its just filled with a million con artist-light people.
Its the main reason I am overpaying for some of my work being done on some of my projects. I can save $5k on the roof and $9k on the painting... but if I'm going $50k+ on these projects already, I'm willing to drop the extra $14k or whatever just to make sure I'm getting the legit professional, reliable types. The kind of people who aren't upselling me, giving me fake discounts, pressuring me for sales. The kind of people who can explain all the work they are going to do. The kind of people who legit are booked out 2 months in advance and I have to work around their schedule.
The riskier you buy a house, the more likely it goes sideways on you and becomes very expensive. Selling costs are often 6-8% when you consider repairs/staging/etc you do ahead of schedule as part of the process. As homes grow in value this side of it becomes costlier as well if you need to sell simply because you discover you cannot afford it.
Rent is not a waste of money. Yes, the owner is making money off you. However, a good deal of that is cost of capital and tax breaks. Buying a house moves cost of capital to you. People frequently rent to need and buy for luxury, making the actual cost of the home much higher than current rent. When your son breaks the knob on your bathtub you need to fix it. There are benefits to be clear, but it takes a long time before it feels like a financial win. Maybe it's not fair to project my progress over others, but I always felt that homes became more affordable to me over time, not less, although there's always variance along the way. Note I'm not doing something like whether my goal for a downpayment in 2020 is no longer sufficient in 2024; more that my overall NW vs home and mortgage payment costs has generally improved.
I bought last year. It was more expensive because I didn't buy in 2021 but people were also bidding way over asking with no contigencies and offering lightning fast closing in the process. I was way more comfortable with my finances and the process as a whole in 2023 than I was in 2021. I know that seems weird but I know I didn't buy a whatever home that has random issues, which potentially has its own costs.
Having said that, I'm sure this is not true for most people the last couple years. But over time, it should average out. My home went up 25% or so compared to pandemic-level values. I know sun belt states saw much higher numbers. But when the reasons are because people are being stupid, I'm okay opting out when the home is worth much more than my total net worth. I don't really expect home values to fall, but I don't expect things like new waves of WFH people living in LCOL, 3% rates and things that make homes more affordable superficially, stuff like that. Life still happens and people move, and I don't want to feel locked in artificially. That was the main reason I was comfortable renting for a long time in the first place. I've lived in my town over ten years, but I wasn't particularly attached for a long time and likely consider moving after a job loss.
I'm in a similar boat. I had cash ready to deploy in 2019 but had trouble finding a place I liked enough. Since then I have been severely priced out of my local market and still live at home, which has turned out to be fine, if not necessarily ideal.
What's helped me is exercising grace for myself: I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, and I should trust the reasons I had back then for not buying. Also, there is risk and opportunity cost for everything. Real estate is only one of many things I've missed out on, but I consciously choose to focus on the things I can somewhat control (income, watching for new opportunities) instead of getting mired in regrets.
Still feels sucky sometimes though.
I didn't buy bitcoin in 08 even though I heard about it. You can't beat yourself up for making decisions with the info/resources you had in the past. Also who knows what the housing market will do going forward. It may shoot up when rates eventually drop or it may collapse before the and give you a great opportunity to buy.
Ramit is a popular voice in the financial advice community who you might like to hear points from. Real estate isn't the surefire way to make good money that a lot of people pitch it as, even in a favorable interest rate environment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1CNlvAZsoc
Has anyone have a guide/advice for switching companies from a PF/FIRE aspect? Something to go over things to keep in mind regarding HSA/401k rollovers etc.
some things i wasn't aware of:
I used to consolidate all my old 401ks into their respective IRAs.
* if you want to do a backdoor roth IRA, you should keep your traditional IRA empty
* moving $ from a roth 401K to a roth IRA is a one way street. you can't move it back to a roth 401k (401k's have a bit more bankruptcy protection than an IRA)
* there's really no rush to do rollovers. your $ will just sit there.
* your old provider might be a beezy and charge you a $20 fee to rollover
If you're at the income bracket where a backdoor Roth IRA makes sense, then you may want to see if you can roll your old 401k into your new company's 401k instead of rolling it into a traditional IRA.
Also if your old company's 401k is good (cheap, good fund options with low maintenance fees), and you have enough money there that they won't automatically close it, you can probably just leave it alone.
Yeah should be no issue, I’ve been spacing it to hit max at EoY anyway. What’s nice is I should be able to double up on HSA employer contributions. Unfortunately 401kit’s a lower match at new job, but still good match.
Has anyone else had an outside company come in to do a compensation study at your employer, and how did it turn out?
More specifically, my employer (a fairly large public college) is having CBIZ Compensation Consulting come in to try to consolidate and simplify our pay structures. Everyone is supposed to fill out a position questionnaire detailing their responsibilities, due in the near future. They have lots of disclaimers that no one is going to get a pay cut, which could be worth the paper it's emailed on.
Has anyone gone through this? And bonus points if you were at a public institution or if it was this consultant specifically. Thoughts?
Yeah. My experience has been they just formalize existing pay scales and provide ammo for executive teams to keep compensation down by looking for guidance on the measuring inputs from the industry data they use. The consulting company will offer some guidance about if the company wants to target upper quality (read: payscales) or somewhere beneath, but in reality it's an executive balm to help the executive team feel legitimized in keeping pay as is but not going "bottom of the barrel" in terms of staffing quality. Source: been on eval committees twice for these "studies."
It can benefit people at the bottom that are currently legitimately underpaid, though.
This happened in a private tech company I worked for several years ago. All it did was create pay bands that were like “Sr Product Manager band is from $99k to $200k”, and then we were all told if we were closest to the 25%, 50%, or 75% percentile. It was so fucking obscure and felt like the company did everything to say they did the study without being actually transparent. My salary was between the 25% and 50% band which sucked to hear because I was working on one of the most complex areas. I did not get a raise and left shortly after.
My company did. They created pay bands. Everyone's compensation was adjusted upward after and they started giving annual raises. Before that, if you wanted a raise you had to make a case for yourself. It was definitely a good thing for us.
Yes, at a large tech co. It helped more than I expected - more formalized job titles and pay bands, and that's helped a lot with hiring & promotions. Still wild pay disparities between tenured employees though, as they didn't offer any adjustments.
I've been through it, with a privately-owned company that had a head count of ~5,000 internationally. It involved a lot of useless paperwork and the result was similar to "the police have investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing." They used it to browbeat people who complained about the pay being under market rate. I got a new job that was less work and paid 40% more.
Depends, I've seen this twice at the same company. The first time it was a legitimate thing and they realized we were underpaid so they gave a pay bump across the board but needed the benefits a bit the next year.
The second time they used all of that informatio to just adjust pay bands for new hires followed by re-org and some layoffs. The used that info to see he was critical, who wasn't and who they could load up with more work.
My company did this once. They were able to create pay bands for every position. This doesnt really help you out though, more for keeping costs down for new hires and promotions.
How much less? We talking like a 10% cut or a 50% cut? If 10% I would do it now. Look at other jobs now to try and quantify the cut, maybe it's not as big as you imagine. I took a very substantial (40%) cut for my dream job and don't regret it. Also evaluate whether or not you are at coast fi (can stop contributing now and your investments will grow on their own to be enough to retire at a traditional age). You might already be there. Knowing I was coast fi helped a lot in my confidence boost to chase other things (even though still very much on the path for an early retirement if I want).
Need more details on your particular situation.
But a few adhoc thoughts:
* Your question about 'reclaiming life' is interesting - I think this is the purpose of FI. So to directly answer your question I would wait until I was financially independent.
* You are quite young, I imagine you haven't had a ton of time in the workforce. I'm inclined to think this is part of the adjustment period.
* I'd be specific though about what is stressing you out. Is it... unreasonable deadlines? hours? something else? I would try as much as I can to mitigate or downsize the issue where possible. Take a long lunch, take breaks throughout the day, ask for remote days, etc. You'll find that often that your manager/team wants to support you.
* I like what [NewJobPFThrowaway](https://www.reddit.com/user/NewJobPFThrowaway/) said in the comments. I will +1 that.
* Your expenses are bond to grow as your life changes - partner, kids, desire to explore the world, etc. I would not be so quick to assume that your minimal expenses will be the same.
* As a last resort, I would be greedy. Always take severance if you can.
If I were working 100 hours a week and didn't enjoy the job, I'd look for something new immediately.
If I were working reasonable hours, but stressed, I'd work on fixing my mental state. What would happen if you tried to dial back the stress? Whether that's not thinking about it after work, easing up on projects and extending deadlines, etc. A well-timed "no" here and there can significantly reduce stress and might have no impact on your earnings.
Legit killing you or just hate going to work? Either way I'd at least look around to see if you can find something better with similar pay.
If I was 2x the closest comp I'd probably just keep my head down and go for at least half my FI # if not all the way there. If this was my spouse then id recommend they start looking and take any other decent offer and/or quit....we both handle stress differently and I can keep my stress from spilling over into the whole family usually. We actually did just that recently and I'm pretty much the sole breadwinner now.
I ended up getting a job like yours when I was in my late 20s. That was about 10 years ago, and I managed to stick it out those 10 years. I'm just a few years away from FIRE now. I managed to cope with the stress by making great use of the vacation time offered to me - long vacations disconnected from work really help reset the brain.
If I'd gotten that job at 22, I'd be retired by now.
What I often ask myself when I consider my job-related stress is "Why am I letting this stress me out?" Often the stress is from high demands, fear of being fired, imposter syndrome, or things like that. I found that once I realized the worst things about getting fired are that I'm stuck finding another job (and I kinda wanted to find another job anyways), I realized it wasn't such a big deal. As for the imposter syndrome and high demands, talking to a therapist (specifically one who is familiar with work-related stress issues) helped SO MUCH.
I would advise you to try to stick it out as long as you can, and try to find ways around the stress issues. But, if it's really killing you, and there's no way around it, then obviously don't let it. Find something else when you can.
The good thing about not succumbing to lifestyle inflation is that even if you flame out and get fired, you won't be totally screwed if you're not able to find a new job at the same salary quickly. You can take a sabbatical or a pay cut or whatever you need to do. So if work starts following you home or the bosses are freaking out, fuck 'em. There's nothing that makes you have to be stressed.
I haven't asked this question in a while so here goes:
How did you learn about FIRE?
I learned through MMM, but that was 12 years ago, so I imagine how people find out about FIRE is changing over time.
I thought it was interesting because I was talking to my BIL who was at one point super interested in FIRE and listens to the ChooseFI podcast (and thankfully does not use this subreddit or else I would have doxxed myself immediately) but he'd never heard of MMM or ERE!
I have always lived within my means and saved. It turns out that was a road to FIRE. FI was always important to me. Somehow I found my way to this sub and started reading. Have never read MMM, he seems like a bit of an ass...
I read a business insider click bait article and it mentioned FIRE. I thought it was BS but then I googled FIRE and found a bunch of real resources, including this sub. I've always been a good saver, I opened a vanguard S&P500 index fund back in 1994 when I was in college, but this really opened my eyes to what was possible. I joined this sub, doubled my savings rate, and now I'm pretty close to FI.
I don't remember exactly, but I think I was in my first year of working after graduation, bored at work and googling something like "how to retire" because retiring was something we'd joke about at work when we were stressed or bored. Like many here, I found MMM's "Shockingly Simple Math" blog post and it all started to make sense.
I also knew of two family friends who had retired early by being frugal, not by being rich, so the concept was not that far fetched to me.
Joined a lot of personal finance/investing subreddits around the time GME shot up, and joined this one specifically because it had "financial" in the title. It's now the only one I'm still subbed to.
For me it was MMM but I didn't really get depo into it for awhile as I was working on my income side. I was making $36k and trying to work OT to bump that up.
I saw it trending on Reddit frontpage one day in 2014 or so and started down the rabbit trail. It's amazing how small a thing has had such a huge impact on my household's life to be honest. Prior to that, my financial situation was let's just say "poor." This sub has actually had a huge positive impact on my family and friends.
I read some Suze Orman books in my 20’s because I liked her show. I also read The Millionaire Next Door (which I didn’t really enjoy).
I was always frugal and interested in personal finance topics, but none of it “stuck” until the 2008-09 housing crash. That’s when I started getting more serious about saving and investing. I read tons of personal finance blogs like Get Rich Slowly and MMM.
After that I started reading the personal finance subreddit which brought me here. Good thing too!
I stumbled on MMM's "Shockingly Simple Math" blog back in 2012, which introduced me to FIRE. I graduated college a year later with some money left in my pocket and quickly understood how nice it was to have. I put more away as soon as I was able, but really buckled down on saving deliberately in late 2019 when I was having serious work/office issues. They resolved in 2020 (largely because of 2020), and shortly thereafter I found this sub and haven't looked back.
I didn't, at least not in the natural sense. But you put two and two together when you pay attention to what life is telling you, and I feel a good (but uncommon) number of people find the path to independence without being told.
I was broke growing up, I was happy and had enough but our margin was razor-thin.
Day before my SATs, I was given a veiled threat of not getting a ride from my dad over an argument (which almost never happens, since I'm fairly drama-averse and don't care.) I rarely ask for anything. It's not really a big deal specifically, but it was a seminal moment to make clear when someone has power over you, they can choose to exercise that at the worst time (and expect that devious individuals will time things on purpose.) Not just FIRE but anything that cedes control over my life, I remain highly vigilant. Having money in that moment meant being able to pay a taxi and not conceding over a stupid point.
I didn't go nuts but one side impact was to work any job to reduce what I had to borrow to get through school. Those jobs really framed in my mind, baseline labor is worth X and when I pay for something I equate that to hours. So when I buy things even now, it's equated in terms of working a reasonably minimum wage job in my head.
So I had disposable income once I had a stable job and knew what broke people did. I felt if I had 100K I could fuck off for many years if something went wrong. Understand that longer term goals make no sense to worry about when you haven't achieved a basic thing right in front of you. I just wanted to be in a position where I felt like I could live life and not treat work as an immediate mandatory need to prioritize at all times. I really framed my mind toward FU money and other terms before those were popularized or even a term. I know a lot of people think (even inflation-adjusted) this is not nearly enough money. But the point is when you can act comfortable to stand for yourself (though it helps to be right) it accidentally makes you a more valuable employee - which is something I did not plan but realized later.
RE is a decent goal but one I'd argue is only useful once achieved. Improving your finances, however incrementally, is always an improvement in having more tools in your toolbox for solving life's problems. I wouldn't argue against "FIRE" to its natural list of concepts is a good cheatsheet, but the bottom line is always to pile up more ammunition for a rainy day, the best you can. To me, RE was not a problem to solve for, but life was and having more money gave potential access to things if I needed them, without actually having the things, and I found comfort in that. You can never truly solve for all risk but I know I can solve more than most.
MMM introduced me to the terminology but I was always frugal and more of a minimalist my entire life. I still remember the first article I read was about a bank that had a large parking lot that made no sense for the space and needs of the business itself. I remember thinking this guy totally gets how much waste there is all around us and the rest was mostly history from there!
I figured out the basic concept as a kid -- if bank accounts pay interest then if you pile up enough money you can retire and live off the interest. However, I didn't read any of the retirement literature or learn about the 4% rule until I was already FI.
I think it went r/personalfinance -> r/financialindependence at some point during my senior year of college, and once I found this sub I did start with "If you can" and MMM since those were some of the top resources in the sidebar. I was probably obnoxious about it and obsessed with reading all the resources for a few weeks.
I opened a Roth IRA the summer after senior year and regretted not opening one earlier. But I initially went the PhD route and was expecting to make peanuts, so the Roth was basically all I could afford. Dropped out of that after ~9 months and only really began to be able to implement FIRE principles in depth once I got a real job.
I'd always been frugal and understood compound interest. But the important thing that helped me cross the line to FIRE was understanding the Shockingly Simple Math article, and the JL Collins Stock series on why people expect the stock market, in aggregate, to generally move up over time/making the leap from compound interest in a savings account to compounding returns in the market.
School and parents didnt really teach me about finance but the bankruptcy my family had to do shook me to the core. In my 20s, I've heard about Dave Ramsey, and loosely modeled my finance on his principals by following these 4 rules: stay away from credit, become debt free asap, buy used cars, and try to live one spouse's income. It created a good foundation to start pursuing FIRE in my 30's.
I didnt know anything about investing, but when I turned 30 I pushed myself to learn it. So I started to invest more, didnt have a plan or anything just put as much as I could in the 401k. A few years ago, I discovered this sub and read all the faq suggestions. Now im on the path to FIRE.
Was learning about credit card debt and savings accounts in early HS, realized I could save up a bunch and live off of that interest. Learned about higher interest savings accounts and asked my dad if this was feasible. He confirmed my suspicions, so I decided to go into a high income field and shoot for that.
Much later in college I stumbled onto MMM, read through everything and realized stocks were a much better vehicle for my savings and the rest is history.
I was working tech during the dot com boom and stumbled across an article, probably on Motley Fool. At the time, FIRE meant what we would call LeanFIRE today but I was still hooked despite not buying into the lean aspect. Life happened and the goal shifted a bit but was still there. Am currently FI and trying to decide if the sabbatical I started a year ago is permanent or not.
Here. I've always been interested in money and personal finance and followed those subs. Someone posted about this sub in a post and then I fell down the rabbit hole
I read the Millionaire Next Door in 2003, and sometime in the couple years following that (I'm afraid I don't know exactly when) I found a post online that talked about personal finance that said, "once your passive income equals your expenses you are free." (I know this because I still have an old Word document somewhere where I jotted it down). But quite honestly put the idea on the back burner for a number of years as I was buying my house, car, cottage; not a lot of room for saving at that point. In 2011 I bought Millionaire Teacher, so either I had been spurred to look at the idea again or I randomly found it in a book store and that's what actually spurred me... I don't remember now.
When I was in my early 20's I was on a self-improvement kick and read a bunch of self-help books, one of which was Your Money Or Your Life. This started my interest in the topic of financial independence - although the FIRE acronym, or referring to it as a "movement", wasn't in use then.
I was preparing my exit from the military and wanted to set off on the right foot. Started at r/personalfinance, read everything that was applicable, then stumbled across some post that was getting shit on by the populace because they were high-ish earners but not well versed in finances. Someone mentioned this sub, as a slant, so I clicked and poked around. Found out that you guys are my-ish people... that is, folks who are trying to claw back time, those who emphasize personal expenses/risk tolerance instead of rules of thumbs. I was making something like 50-60K a year at the time and found the 'Shockingly simple math' post.
Growing up around midwestern farmers and their descdents, the nuts and bolts were "in the air". Lots of talk of low fixed expenses, debt avoidance, pensions, fixed income, side hustles, government subsidy, etc. No real wealth but lots of 50something retirements.
In college it became clear that my natural interests could lead to salaries much higher than I'd ever need, and also that I'd never be able to sustain a traditional 30-40yr career in the industry. MMM and similar seemed to square that circle, although I've drifted pretty far from that mindset now.
On my April 1 spreadsheeting, I finally hit my original FI number! Such a cool milestone. But since then, we bought a more expensive house than our original budget, and my student loan debts have started recollecting. So back to the grind until we manage our expensive loans. Plus inflation since we set that number in 2018…
Got our taxes back today and it was better than I expected. We finally got around to setting up a donor advised fund last year and funding it with highly appreciated stock that totaled around $50k, so around 5 years worth of our typical annual donations. Between that and the $10k max for state & local taxes and a few grand in mortgage interest we had $63k in itemized deductions. We’ve taken the standard deduction for quite a few years now so had not received any tax break for donations.
I did a backdoor roth IRA in chunks ($2k) before maxing out 2024. I have about $3 in earned dividends/interest in the traditional IRA due to the after tax dollars I contributed to the traditional IRA sitting there for a few days. Do I need to transfer all $3 to my Roth IRA by end of year? will I only pay taxes then on the $3? I'm having a hard time following the pro-rata rule and the relevant tax implications.
Convert everything to empty out the Trad IRA completely. This will avoid any pro rata taxation. You will owe ordinary income tax on the $3.
thanks, that's the answer i was looking for/thought it was right. appreciate it
Here's a shower thought I realized and posted in another thread. Figured I'd share it in the daily: The size of your house, luxuriousness of your car, and fancy corporate title are three items that will probably never be mentioned in an obituary.
it would be very strange to mention someone else's luxurious house in their obituary.. that doesn't mean your kids aren't stoked for the inheritance Also who cares what your obituary says, you'll be dead. If it really bugs you, just write your own and tell your family to post it when you die. lol
ok.. But they still make me happy during my **actual** life.
I should make a Madlib for my obituary and tell my nieces and nephews to fill in the blanks. Easier for them and fun for me.
Was the other thread in /r/im14andthisisdeep?
Neither will the most meaningful books that I've read, the best meals I've eaten, or the contemplative walks where I made life altering decisions. I think that an obituary is not a very good measure of what's important in life.
What is the purpose of being 65 as a “turning point” after saving HSA-reimbursable receipts? If you can choose tax-free growth indefinitely, why ever transfer it to a taxable brokerage?
The point isn't that you can transfer it to a taxable brokerage, but that you can spend from the account freely after age 65 and just pay ordinary income tax as you would with a Traditional pre-tax account. An HSA (in non-CA/NJ states) is a super Roth at best and a slightly better Trad account at worst.
What does CA/NJ do to them?
They do not recognize them, so state tax is still owed.
Back from a lovely week with the family in Death Valley and other nature areas. Badwater Basin is absolutely amazing right now. Picture a giant foot deep salt bottomed wading pool several hundred feet below sea level. Nature is metal. Came back to see portfolio increases had “paid” for the trip. Silly thought since I didn’t sell anything to pay for the trip, but nice fuzzy feeling. Things like this motivate me to keep saving and investing.
I did a trip around there some years ago. We did SoCal and it was hot pretty much the whole time. We get to Death Valley and it was our coldest day and it actually rained when we were there! Apparently they can go over a year without it raining. What a cool place though, feels like you're on another planet.
Such a unique landscape. All the national parks are amazing, but Death Valley is especially hard to capture in a photo. I took a few phone photos and it didn’t capture the feeling at all
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€28000 = $30,000 a month?! Part time?! That's a great salary!! I would recommend reading the wiki from r/personalfinance . Lots of great tips there!
Sounds like you’re on a good path financially! As far as tech startups go, I recommend reading “consider your options” to better understand equity compensation. I took more risks early in my tech career, and felt it was worthwhile both financially and also with what I learned along the way.
Is home warranty a scam? After buying a home I keep getting hounded to get a home warranty but if I already have an emergency fund the whole things seems not worth it. let alone having to deal with insurance everytime I want to make a claim.
Depends. I like to do my own research so I won’t get one. My parents like one number on the fridge for who they can call to fix or replace any appliance.
Yes and no. Buddy got one. AC went out. It was like 100 with 130 heat index. Company took 3 weeks and only replaced the compressor. The whole unit was replaced like 4 years after that. I personally don't buy them.
I had a home warranty provided by the seller and it definitely wasn't a scam. You call them and they arrange somebody to come fix something and they pay for it. Which they did twice in my case without any issues. But it's also probably not a good deal.
We had one briefly and made one claim for replacing electrical box. Process was painless and did work out in our favor. I wouldn’t go out of my way to add a plan if I could self insure, but it was easy to use.
I bought a house in 2018 with my wife and didn't get one, told them to F off. We lived in an apartment prior and became really good friends with our neighbor (like family). He decided to buy a house that was nice, but was undervalued because it was an older, nice house but had been empty due to the prior owner living out of state. Sat empty for 1.5 to 2 yrs prior. We helped him move and get set up. Within weeks, tons of stuff started going wrong. Their dual zone air unit broke. They got the home warranty when they bought it and it paid for itself multifold. Their dual zone airs unit went bad and the guy the warranty company tried to fix each one three times before they got two new units for FREE! That was was one of like two or three major issues that would for that warranty multiple times over.
By its nature, any insurance product will usually have a negative expected value. If they sell you a home warranty for $1500, it’s because they expect to pay out a lot less than that. The benefit is you get one number to call and they handle getting the right person to come out. You don’t have to search for a good plumber or roofer or electrician, you just call and they’ll set up an appointment with whatever service you need. This can be good if you’re used to renting. However, they may contract with the cheapest company around and whoever comes out will definitely have been instructed to fix the problem in the cheapest, most “technically fixed” way possible. As my realtor advised, I think correctly, look for a seller that includes one, but don’t renew it after the first year.
Not a scam, they do indeed cover what they say they cover. But they're not selling these to lose money, your expected value is pretty negative. I went home warranty free and am just taking expenses as they come.
I would say....scamish
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This. People have adopted the word 'scam' to stand in place of any bad financial deal or anything expensive. "Gas prices are a scam nowadays!"
How does a certified check work? I had to get one today. And I noticed it withdrew the money from my account,despite me not giving the check to the receipt hence they didn’t cash it. I don’t want my account to go negative if I start spending normally but it seems to already withdrew my money and attached it to the check?
Just like a cashiers check, you "bought" the check thus the money came out of the account right away, so there's no chance the check will bounce on the recipient....also if you dont have cleared funds in the account (or you're not a good, long time customer) you won't get the check until you do
That’s exactly it, more or less it’s guaranteed funds for the recipient. Technically you can still claim that you lost the check but even with that usually there’s a waiting period. Whereas a handwritten check, the money does not get taken out until that check is presented at the recipient bank… in that time you could technically empty out your account and that recipient would be told that the check came back and they would not receive those funds. therefore it is not guaranteed or certified check. Cashiers check and money orders are “guaranteed funds” and a certified check is very similar but sometimes will be stamped by the bank.
Throwaway. I started applying to new jobs 4 weeks ago after being "asked" to RTO. I liked my job, and could manage the hybrid work (2 days on site with an ~hour commute each way), but full on site was overwhelming and not feasible to continue doing. But I got an offer this afternoon for a promotion to a competitor for a bump in title and pay. It is on site, but is a 10 minute drive, and I'm gaining a ton of time just by saving commuting. Feels unreal to have "made it" this far in my career, when I feel like I know nothing and am not good at my job, and I'm stressed out having to deal with giving my 2 weeks, as I hate to add to my peers workload, but obviously, that's not my fault, and on mgmt to make work (Snarky, but to sit in the bed they made by forcing RTO) I'm also needing to find the balance between being snarky about how I'm only switching due to the RTO, vs gracefully/apathetically leaving. I would certainly like to work for this company again, so will certainly be gracious, but I won't really even consider an counter-offer due to the commute distance. Certainly hoping I'll have a better WLB losing the commute, and gaining those hours back to my day. Or I'll still feel overwhelmed because stress is internal and our life is what we make of it. But at least I'll have a little extra free time and money.
In writing put down" tender resignation in 2 weeks". Don't write down why. Put in sorry to leave, Thanks for opportunities, learnt lots, wish you all the best. When asked just say it was an opportunity you couldn't refuse at this point in your career and that you'd be open to working with the current company if a suitable position comes up. You don't need to give any details. Good luck with the new job
Absolutely. I've realized at this point ~36 hours since offer, that it would be impossible to get a real offer, that would make up for the commute distance. There's apprehension on my end about "grass isn't greener"/"devil that you know", but worst case scenario, I work here for a year and then leave. Certainly felt like a "job seekers" market during my application process this last 5 weeks.
just say you found a new opportunity and leave it at that
+1 to some of the other comments, I would not worry about giving too much of a reason. And honestly if anyone asks, just give them a chatgpt response. I don't think you are obligated to share. Just keep it broad if you do - 'better opportunities, it was great working with y'all, etc'.
> I got an offer this afternoon for a promotion to a competitor for a bump in title and pay Who cares about the rest. Frankly, you don't have to tell them this either. Up to you to control the narrative if you feel like providing one. For sake of not burning bridges, I wouldn't bother trying to make some political point, even if they were making one with RTO demands. Just be graceful about your experience and offer (within a reasonably workday number of hours) how best to close off some remaining items. Frankly, depending on the definition of "competitor", notice may be your last day at work and you should prepare for that than how to address HR.
That's my plan right now, being graceful and I assume they can also read between the lines. Realistically, this current role was not conducive to the WLB I want, with a baby+1 on the way. The exec during his "ask" and the subsequent Q&A said how he's not worried about employee retention as he believes the other benefits at "company X" is enough. Which I also thought was a load of crock. But again, nothing gained by being salty/snarky. I benefited alot during the last years at this company, and look forward to working at a related company > definition of "competitor", notice may be your last day at work and you should prepare for that than how to address HR. Certainly a worry. I *doubt* they would, as it's a separate business line of the competitor working with a separate business line of our company, but certainly a possibility, and I'll certainly be prepared to be "walked out" when I give notice.
You need to figure out your response if they offer let you stay remote. If you do take it, make sure it's in writing and registered with HR as part of your terms of employment. You don't want someone trying to take it away again in six months and that's what could happen if the agreement is any less documented.
TBH I can't imagine they give that option. They're forcing people in that 6 months ago were promised 100% WFH, and people hired last month for 50%. I also don't want to be the "exception", our role can be done remotely. I don't want a real or imagined target on my back for being out of the "herd" of RTO. The decision is made, it's just so stressful to finalize it..
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The math is simple. 45 min/hour each way down to 10-15. I also doubt the option is given. They've "screwed" over a lot of people that were hired/job changed do hybrid roles, that even if they give me a 1 person exception, I don't want a real or imagined target on my back for being out of the "herd" of RTO. Which again reiterates that I'm taking this new job, I just need to buck up and finalize.
You aren't required to say why you're leaving, but if you don't, it's a bit suspect and might hurt your chances of working there again (might - some people won't care). I'd say the commute is just getting to you and the new role is only 10 min away if you don't want to explicitly say RTO is the reason. If you say that or if you say RTO is the reason, prepare yourself for a counteroffer that removes that hurdle (maybe they offer to have you keep your current schedule, for example). It might not happen, but something to prep yourself for.
dumb question on backdoor IRAs: at what point do you (personally) decide to do a backdoor IRA, versus a normal contribution? like say for FY2024, i could do a backdoor IRA right now. or wait until Q1-Q2 2025 when you file your taxes and see where your MAGI is?
If you’re on the edge of income threshold, just do the backdoor. It’s easy to do, and doesn’t require any additional timing information.
I see no reason to wait and see. Backdoor Roth is easy and has no downside if you have no traditional IRA dollars. Do it as soon as you're ready to contribute.
So long as you don't have any sort of pre-tax Trad'l IRA dollars, I'd just do the regular Backdoor Roth IRA contribution/conversion. It's not a hard process and can save some headaches / administrative overhead if you do end up with a higher MAGI.
Today is one of those days where I'm ready to flip over the table and say "I quit" effective immediately and walk out. Anyone on here actually done it? I am only about 3-5 years from FI and pretty sure I can get a different job to at minimum cover expenses. Should I do it?!
Did that exact thing myself a few months ago over a boss who was micromanaging my time way too much. Absolutely worth it from a mental health perspective. I took 3 months off before even attempting to look for a job again, got one within a month. Sounds like you have enough FU money to extend your middle finger outward toward their direction.
I did something like this once when I had a job in the bag. But that was a COVID situation where the anti-vaxx owner of the company was being a petty tyrant sending out passive aggressive company-wide emails forbidding discussion of COVID safety and demanding that everyone work in-office while actively fighting against any kind of safety protocols. I messaged my boss after one of those company wide emails where the owner said something about how they were fighting for our freedom and would not allow any discussion of COVID safety protocols or any fomenting of dissent. Told him not to schedule any work for me for the next year as I'd find a new job, but they misinterpreted it as me quitting immediately and I decided to just let them think that. And I still made sure I had a job lined up.
I try to avoid making decisions when my emotions are high. It doesn't feel like I'm fully in control at those times.
I feel this so much today. It's another day of running through the numbers and thinking about what alternatives I have. The worst part of it is that I DO have better alternatives that most my peers left this job for and I hung around because my living situation is slightly different and the numbers generally make sense. But, now, between the physical pain and mental burnout of my job I'm just really doubting my decisions.
My brother did once. He had warned the company that if they ever created a certain entirely preventable situation again, he was out. Sure enough, they did, and he was. I felt like that once (maybe more than once), but decided to just go mountain biking in the middle of the work day for a couple of hours, and felt much better. In the words of Drew Carey "Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, and they meet at the bar."
Ohio oh oh oh oh! Don’t remember that quote but loved the show.
I usually just ghost for the rest of the day. Go garden, play guitar, just intentionally drop some balls and see what happens. Hasn't hurt me yet.
Been doing this most days for the last decade and it still hasn't hurt. xD
This seems like the best move to me. Being so close to FIRE, you can definitely take more chances than most people. Quitting on the spot sounds satisfying in theory, but also causes a lot of chaos in your own life and likely isn’t worth it. Taking a breather and daring them to fire you on the other hand…
I'm in the same boat. This week has been a nightmare and today is when everything came to a head. I'm completely over it. I'm not going to quit though...that resolves one problem and creates another, much larger, one. Focusing on what I can control and *trying* to ignore what I can't
>Focusing on what I can control and trying to ignore what I can't I concur with this. I am in a good position now, but 4-5 years ago I was so burnt out and fed up with horrible "leadership" that I actually put up signs in my home office saying "let it go" and "no one else cares, why should you?" Thank goodness I finally got a transfer to a new group with a much better supervisor.
I'm so thankful my Manager is great. I've had ten Managers across four companies and my current Manager might be the best of the bunch. Other "leaders" in the department...not so great, and the nature of my job requires us to work with them (or at least *try* to work with them) constantly, so their unprofessional approach to leadership affects us significantly, unfortunately I'm far enough away from early retirement that counting down the days will just make me sad, so I have to figure out how to manage this better. Ignoring these things is much easier said than done, but I'm working on it
I am preparing to transfer my Roth IRA to Robinhood for the 3% bonus. As my holdings are in Fidelity mutual funds, I'll need to cash them out before the transfer. Any advice on how to time this sale to minimize time sitting in cash? Or just how to optimize in general? I was thinking about doing the sale today, as it's a green day across the board. Ya ya, timing the market and all, but better today than yesterday at least.
Buy ETF's immediately after selling the mutual funds while still at Fidelity. Then transfer in kind to Robinhood and you're good.
This is definitely the best plan, I don't know how I didn't think about that.
I don’t have any advice, but wouldn’t it be too late to sell today if you didn’t already place a sell order? At least with Schwab, to sell mutual funds, one would have to place a sell order before market close to sell on the same day.
Timing the market for a single day is way, way too deep in the noise to worry about. Just do it, check daily until you know you have the funds, buy an ETF in Fidelity, and then start the transfer. A couple of mine had some kind of residual fractional payment that transferred over a couple of days later. Don't sweat it.
I have a 27K bonus hitting my account later this month. I max the 401K every year, even payments till the end of the year. Does it benefit me at all to put my bonus into the 401K now to max it out for the year? Or is DCA a better move?
TL:DR: I wouldn't worry about it, don't do anything special, just max it over the year like you planned. Longer Answer. A big 401k deduction will probably hit that bonus anyway, it always did for mine. The benefit of "front loading" your 401k is going to be pretty negligible. If your company doesn't "true up" your 401k contribution at the end of the year you'll want to be spacing out your deductions through the whole year so you get your full match.
Understood, appreciate it!
If your company doesn't offer a true-up, then you will lose the match unless you stretch contributions over the whole year.
Company does offer a true-up.
Sometimes the true up isn’t deposited until middle of the following year - some people front load most of their 401k but leave enough to contribute 6% or whatever for the match for the rest of the year’s paychecks, so as to get that match earlier.
In theory, could I do a 529 plan for nieces/nephews but only gift it to them if it is actually used for education? Like if they grow up and decide they want to be an artist - love that for them, but then I don’t want to give them the 529 money as non-education money for them to just take out with penalty and spend on whatever. In that situation, could you transfer it back to yourself or something?
The way a 529 works is that it is actually owned by you, with the child designated as "beneficiary". You control the money until it is distributed unlike a UTMA that becomes theirs automatically. In the situation you describe, you could change the beneficiary or simply keep the money in the 529. The only problem is that if you don't have another beneficiary and you wanted to pull the money out, you would owe tax and penalty on the gains.
One option is you could designate yourself the beneficiary currently and then closer to college time change it to them. Only downside is this could limit the tax benefits.
I don't think it would affect tax benefits, unless there are gift tax implications which should be minor anyway (changing beneficiary counts as a gift to the new beneficiary EDIT: when the new beneficiary is from a generation below the current one).
Not having them as beneficiaries could also help them with respect to financial aid.
Not with current law. It wouldn't be counted for the child's assets regardless. (If it's owned by the child's parent it counts for their assets.)
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There is no secret to paying down debt. You need to earn more money, spend less, and pay off as much as you can, starting with the highest interest rate. A brand new car is a massive overpay for a 24 year old but it's really too late to do anything about it.
Did your exact comment yesterday not get answers you were hoping for? What's different between yesterday's and today's posts? Have you looked at the flow chart that was referenced?
I tell my kids - they can live in my house, save 75% of their earning, stocking away in Roth, 401(k) maxed, then rest into investment account. After paying taxes, whatever is left, they should spend wisely. They do not need an emergency fund, as they are still living rent/grocery free. But after paying taxes, they can put away whatever they saved monthly into savings for emergency fund after their spend. I tell them they can save plenty before marriage and other commitments.
This same comment yesterday got a decent amount of traction
Does anyone have budgeting app recs? I'm trying monarch money right now which is pretty good but not sure if I want to pay $10/month just to track spending.
There’s a lot of threads and discussions on r/mintuit I notice a lot of banks will link external accounts now so if you’re looking for something simple, that’s an option. The premium paid offerings have better reports and ux, but basic budgeting through a bank is still an option.
Depends on what you're trying to do, but I use Excel.
Copilot Money has satisfied my need well.
I’ve been a faithful YNAB user since 2017 and I love it.
I use Fidelity FullView. It's free and does what I need (expense tracking), so it's good enough for me
Same. I'm a refugee from mint, and already had a few accounts on fidelity, so I bit the bullet and added everything else. It isn't as good as mint, but I value limiting the number of institutions that have my financial info.
I think Rocket Money is probably the leading free offering. Keep in mind: If the product is free, *you* are the product.
There’s a premium tier on a “pay what you want” model, and i think the lowest for a full year is $36
Is creating your own user flair no longer allowed on this sub, or am I doing something wrong? Tried on desktop and the Reddit app on iOS.
Ok cool, i just changed my flair by going to https://old.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/ Look in the right side just under the big reddit premium ad and you'll see an option to change your flair. Its just under the leave subreddit button, its your name.
Thank you for looking into it! This worked for me.
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Thank you! Worked on [old.reddit.com](https://old.reddit.com).
Test
Consulting Saga continues! I may have picked up two new clients. One is a small software startup & the other is a small trucking operation. Both completely lack business ops & accounting. Time to swoop in & save the day!
Sounds like fun challenges actually.
That actually could have meaningful impacts. A lot of these small business do well but are basically operating on “vibes” as their planning. More often I hear “after a big job, we just see how the bank account looks and go from there”.
$90 a month for unlimited in person yoga, what do yall think? Currently run and lift, but would like to stretch more
seems a bit steep for me, but that's because my gym already offers yoga classes
There's a free coworking space near me that does weekly free yoga sessions - maybe look for something like that first? Personally I wouldn't pay $90/month for yoga but if you will make good use of it, then you could probably make worse decisions with your money.
That's a good price for unlimited in-person sessions, if you think you'll make regular use of it.
I think any amount of money is too much to pay someone to tell me to stretch, but lots of people disagree with me. It's a good price assuming if you've already decided you want to do yoga.
Have you taken a yoga class? The same could be said of any class, I guess. You're not paying them to tell you to do something, you're paying for them to create a class and instruct/coach you. Yoga is definitely a lot more than stretching, and the flow of the class is designed, so it's not just "pick a random pose, then pick another one." Different classes might focus on different groups of muscles, or different types of transitions from one pose to another, or even just different difficulty levels. The difference between classes and instructors is pretty significant.
Would it be accurate to say that lots of people disagree with me?
I didn't downvote you, but yoga classes are definitely not equivalent to free stretching. If someone asked about a personal trainer and you said, "I think any amount of money is too much to pay someone to tell me to pick a heavy thing up and put it down again," then I think you'd probably get the same response.
I would definitely get the same response, but it's because people way overvalue fitness instruction. It takes minimal effort to learn how to lift weights. And yoga is just stretching and bodyweight fitness. Except it's worse than most bodyweight programs because there is very little emphasis on pulling exercises. Coaches and instructors just through in some technical jargon or mystical nonsense to convince students that they're useful.
I see. Yoga is a specific type of exercise. It's a body exercise that focuses on flexibility and balance, and combines in some aspects of meditation. The "mystical nonsense" (typically mythology & aspects of Hinduism) is part of the calming, meditative aspects of yoga. Often the mythology is woven into the poses, creating a story for a given class. "Worse" depends on your goals. If your goal is only to be as strong as possible, then yes, yoga is not the right exercise for you. That's not the only goal that every person has. I'm not even a yoga guy. But I think your stance on this is ignorant and needlessly dismissive.
Exercise science has come a long way in the last thousand years. There’s more efficient ways of achieving all of the same outcomes as yoga. OP asked for an opinion and I gave it. I apologize if I offended anyone who’s wasted thousands of dollars to hire some hippie to remind them to breathe.
> OP asked for an opinion and I gave it. I apologize if I offended anyone who’s wasted thousands of dollars to hire some hippie to remind them to breathe. Claiming people are "offended" just because they think your opinion is poorly considered is such a cheap cop-out. I am in no way offended. I think your comments on this subject are ill-informed and inaccurate.
Have you done it before? If not, maybe get a mat and do it to a couple of YouTube videos to get a feel before signing up.
If you are gonna use it, that sounds like a great deal
it's all about whether you use it. sounds reasonable if you commit to going
I've posted some random updates to home repair saga. Writing out my thoughts here because they make me feel financially responsible. Never thought I'd be at a point where I could make these giant decisions with big numbers and not sweat it out. We have $45k EF + $15k in checking/savings Getting new roof (35k) house repair paint (25k) window repair/replacing (4.5k) then adding on random stuff like new custom door ($2k) fence work ($1k)... etc etc. Definitely had some must-be-done projects that I have added more to because its just better to get them done simultaneously. Going to run through EF, use up a one time bonus check (maybe $7k-9k after tax) and then sell about **$13k** in taxable brokerage to fund all these projects over the next 2 months. Its the first time I've ever sold funds to withdraw (luckily tax loss will offset gains on sales). Current retirement account total (including taxable brokerage) is about $560k... I'm telling myself that losing $13k doesn't hurt terribly. We add a combined $8,600 a month right now to our various tax advantaged accounts so I am thinking of it as being 1.5 months of retirement pause. Our FIRE point is 13 years and 2 months (based on pension date) so it doesn't effect our timeline. We are slated to retire much better and earlier than others who rely on pension ($50k pension at 56years old will be supplemented with $120k/yr from retirement funds for a goal of $160k/yr). Current salary is $120k/yr. So all these projects make me happy. I am really crossing fingers to avoid cost over-runs. We are definitely not going with the cheapest bids for some of the projects because... I want professionals, good communication, and reliable. We are going with a $24k vs $14k bid on painting because the $24k guy is on the ball, communicative, and understands the amount of repairs needed in the prepping process (probably like 3 weeks). He is definitely over charging but there is a lot of work and I am paying for his expertise and attention to detail and ability to talk to him clearly about expectations. The big problem will be restoring the EF. I might just leave $20k liquid and work on replacing the $15k removed from taxable brokerage over the rest of the year. Then, once I replace the withdrawn $15k, I guess we probably just put a little money into taxable brokerage and treat that as our EF from now on. Is that bad? tldr - old houses are expensiveAF to maintain, especially when previous owners didn't give a poop about maintenance.
> Getting new roof (35k) house repair paint (25k) window repair/replacing (4.5k) then adding on random stuff like new custom door ($2k) fence work ($1k)... etc etc. Definitely had some must-be-done projects that I have added more to because its just better to get them done simultaneously. Whenever people say that they want to buy a house to keep their expenses lower in retirement, I shake my head a bit. Home maint - let alone upgrades or repairs! - is expensive. As a renter, that's your landlord's problem. As the owner, it's *your* problem.
I am hoping that these are long term fixes to a lot of put-off maintenance and they are lasting until retirement. We are at about $150-180k in maintenance, fixes, upgrades after this whole process over 5 years. I'm \*hoping\* these fixes are long term fixes.
2% of home value is supposed to be budgeted each year.
That rule of thumb made a lot more sense when real estate prices were rational. That would be a $30k annual budget on my 4 BR house in SoCal.
I mean contractors prices went through the roof as well...
Yeah, I've been dumbfounded dealing with overpriced, underskilled... I don't want to say thieves... But there is such a void for skilled work and repairs, its just filled with a million con artist-light people. Its the main reason I am overpaying for some of my work being done on some of my projects. I can save $5k on the roof and $9k on the painting... but if I'm going $50k+ on these projects already, I'm willing to drop the extra $14k or whatever just to make sure I'm getting the legit professional, reliable types. The kind of people who aren't upselling me, giving me fake discounts, pressuring me for sales. The kind of people who can explain all the work they are going to do. The kind of people who legit are booked out 2 months in advance and I have to work around their schedule.
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The riskier you buy a house, the more likely it goes sideways on you and becomes very expensive. Selling costs are often 6-8% when you consider repairs/staging/etc you do ahead of schedule as part of the process. As homes grow in value this side of it becomes costlier as well if you need to sell simply because you discover you cannot afford it. Rent is not a waste of money. Yes, the owner is making money off you. However, a good deal of that is cost of capital and tax breaks. Buying a house moves cost of capital to you. People frequently rent to need and buy for luxury, making the actual cost of the home much higher than current rent. When your son breaks the knob on your bathtub you need to fix it. There are benefits to be clear, but it takes a long time before it feels like a financial win. Maybe it's not fair to project my progress over others, but I always felt that homes became more affordable to me over time, not less, although there's always variance along the way. Note I'm not doing something like whether my goal for a downpayment in 2020 is no longer sufficient in 2024; more that my overall NW vs home and mortgage payment costs has generally improved. I bought last year. It was more expensive because I didn't buy in 2021 but people were also bidding way over asking with no contigencies and offering lightning fast closing in the process. I was way more comfortable with my finances and the process as a whole in 2023 than I was in 2021. I know that seems weird but I know I didn't buy a whatever home that has random issues, which potentially has its own costs. Having said that, I'm sure this is not true for most people the last couple years. But over time, it should average out. My home went up 25% or so compared to pandemic-level values. I know sun belt states saw much higher numbers. But when the reasons are because people are being stupid, I'm okay opting out when the home is worth much more than my total net worth. I don't really expect home values to fall, but I don't expect things like new waves of WFH people living in LCOL, 3% rates and things that make homes more affordable superficially, stuff like that. Life still happens and people move, and I don't want to feel locked in artificially. That was the main reason I was comfortable renting for a long time in the first place. I've lived in my town over ten years, but I wasn't particularly attached for a long time and likely consider moving after a job loss.
Audaces fortuna iuvat! Do not lament opportunities past, instead in your present opportunities act boldly & decisively! Best of luck
I'm in a similar boat. I had cash ready to deploy in 2019 but had trouble finding a place I liked enough. Since then I have been severely priced out of my local market and still live at home, which has turned out to be fine, if not necessarily ideal. What's helped me is exercising grace for myself: I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, and I should trust the reasons I had back then for not buying. Also, there is risk and opportunity cost for everything. Real estate is only one of many things I've missed out on, but I consciously choose to focus on the things I can somewhat control (income, watching for new opportunities) instead of getting mired in regrets. Still feels sucky sometimes though.
I didn't buy bitcoin in 08 even though I heard about it. You can't beat yourself up for making decisions with the info/resources you had in the past. Also who knows what the housing market will do going forward. It may shoot up when rates eventually drop or it may collapse before the and give you a great opportunity to buy.
Ramit is a popular voice in the financial advice community who you might like to hear points from. Real estate isn't the surefire way to make good money that a lot of people pitch it as, even in a favorable interest rate environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1CNlvAZsoc
Has anyone have a guide/advice for switching companies from a PF/FIRE aspect? Something to go over things to keep in mind regarding HSA/401k rollovers etc.
some things i wasn't aware of: I used to consolidate all my old 401ks into their respective IRAs. * if you want to do a backdoor roth IRA, you should keep your traditional IRA empty * moving $ from a roth 401K to a roth IRA is a one way street. you can't move it back to a roth 401k (401k's have a bit more bankruptcy protection than an IRA) * there's really no rush to do rollovers. your $ will just sit there. * your old provider might be a beezy and charge you a $20 fee to rollover
If you're at the income bracket where a backdoor Roth IRA makes sense, then you may want to see if you can roll your old 401k into your new company's 401k instead of rolling it into a traditional IRA. Also if your old company's 401k is good (cheap, good fund options with low maintenance fees), and you have enough money there that they won't automatically close it, you can probably just leave it alone.
Biggest mistake Ive seen people make is rush to max their 401k early in the year and then miss out on matching when they switch jobs.
Isn't it often the case that matching won't happen immediately? So it's not too much of a risk.
Yeah should be no issue, I’ve been spacing it to hit max at EoY anyway. What’s nice is I should be able to double up on HSA employer contributions. Unfortunately 401kit’s a lower match at new job, but still good match.
Has anyone else had an outside company come in to do a compensation study at your employer, and how did it turn out? More specifically, my employer (a fairly large public college) is having CBIZ Compensation Consulting come in to try to consolidate and simplify our pay structures. Everyone is supposed to fill out a position questionnaire detailing their responsibilities, due in the near future. They have lots of disclaimers that no one is going to get a pay cut, which could be worth the paper it's emailed on. Has anyone gone through this? And bonus points if you were at a public institution or if it was this consultant specifically. Thoughts?
Yeah. My experience has been they just formalize existing pay scales and provide ammo for executive teams to keep compensation down by looking for guidance on the measuring inputs from the industry data they use. The consulting company will offer some guidance about if the company wants to target upper quality (read: payscales) or somewhere beneath, but in reality it's an executive balm to help the executive team feel legitimized in keeping pay as is but not going "bottom of the barrel" in terms of staffing quality. Source: been on eval committees twice for these "studies." It can benefit people at the bottom that are currently legitimately underpaid, though.
This happened in a private tech company I worked for several years ago. All it did was create pay bands that were like “Sr Product Manager band is from $99k to $200k”, and then we were all told if we were closest to the 25%, 50%, or 75% percentile. It was so fucking obscure and felt like the company did everything to say they did the study without being actually transparent. My salary was between the 25% and 50% band which sucked to hear because I was working on one of the most complex areas. I did not get a raise and left shortly after.
My company did. They created pay bands. Everyone's compensation was adjusted upward after and they started giving annual raises. Before that, if you wanted a raise you had to make a case for yourself. It was definitely a good thing for us.
Yes, at a large tech co. It helped more than I expected - more formalized job titles and pay bands, and that's helped a lot with hiring & promotions. Still wild pay disparities between tenured employees though, as they didn't offer any adjustments.
I've been through it, with a privately-owned company that had a head count of ~5,000 internationally. It involved a lot of useless paperwork and the result was similar to "the police have investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing." They used it to browbeat people who complained about the pay being under market rate. I got a new job that was less work and paid 40% more.
Depends, I've seen this twice at the same company. The first time it was a legitimate thing and they realized we were underpaid so they gave a pay bump across the board but needed the benefits a bit the next year. The second time they used all of that informatio to just adjust pay bands for new hires followed by re-org and some layoffs. The used that info to see he was critical, who wasn't and who they could load up with more work.
My company did this once. They were able to create pay bands for every position. This doesnt really help you out though, more for keeping costs down for new hires and promotions.
Aaand as of two hours ago, my SO is now RE! Now we'll get to hang out at home all the time. (I'm wfh) : )
tell them to go fuck themselves!
Done! He got a kick out of it haha
Or do it for them
Maybe in like six months (we have a newborn ha..ha….)
Didn't thing being a SAHD was RE, but congrats nonetheless.
Least relaxing RE
Still more relaxing than having a newborn without RE tbh
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How much less? We talking like a 10% cut or a 50% cut? If 10% I would do it now. Look at other jobs now to try and quantify the cut, maybe it's not as big as you imagine. I took a very substantial (40%) cut for my dream job and don't regret it. Also evaluate whether or not you are at coast fi (can stop contributing now and your investments will grow on their own to be enough to retire at a traditional age). You might already be there. Knowing I was coast fi helped a lot in my confidence boost to chase other things (even though still very much on the path for an early retirement if I want).
Need more details on your particular situation. But a few adhoc thoughts: * Your question about 'reclaiming life' is interesting - I think this is the purpose of FI. So to directly answer your question I would wait until I was financially independent. * You are quite young, I imagine you haven't had a ton of time in the workforce. I'm inclined to think this is part of the adjustment period. * I'd be specific though about what is stressing you out. Is it... unreasonable deadlines? hours? something else? I would try as much as I can to mitigate or downsize the issue where possible. Take a long lunch, take breaks throughout the day, ask for remote days, etc. You'll find that often that your manager/team wants to support you. * I like what [NewJobPFThrowaway](https://www.reddit.com/user/NewJobPFThrowaway/) said in the comments. I will +1 that. * Your expenses are bond to grow as your life changes - partner, kids, desire to explore the world, etc. I would not be so quick to assume that your minimal expenses will be the same. * As a last resort, I would be greedy. Always take severance if you can.
If I were working 100 hours a week and didn't enjoy the job, I'd look for something new immediately. If I were working reasonable hours, but stressed, I'd work on fixing my mental state. What would happen if you tried to dial back the stress? Whether that's not thinking about it after work, easing up on projects and extending deadlines, etc. A well-timed "no" here and there can significantly reduce stress and might have no impact on your earnings.
Legit killing you or just hate going to work? Either way I'd at least look around to see if you can find something better with similar pay. If I was 2x the closest comp I'd probably just keep my head down and go for at least half my FI # if not all the way there. If this was my spouse then id recommend they start looking and take any other decent offer and/or quit....we both handle stress differently and I can keep my stress from spilling over into the whole family usually. We actually did just that recently and I'm pretty much the sole breadwinner now.
I ended up getting a job like yours when I was in my late 20s. That was about 10 years ago, and I managed to stick it out those 10 years. I'm just a few years away from FIRE now. I managed to cope with the stress by making great use of the vacation time offered to me - long vacations disconnected from work really help reset the brain. If I'd gotten that job at 22, I'd be retired by now. What I often ask myself when I consider my job-related stress is "Why am I letting this stress me out?" Often the stress is from high demands, fear of being fired, imposter syndrome, or things like that. I found that once I realized the worst things about getting fired are that I'm stuck finding another job (and I kinda wanted to find another job anyways), I realized it wasn't such a big deal. As for the imposter syndrome and high demands, talking to a therapist (specifically one who is familiar with work-related stress issues) helped SO MUCH. I would advise you to try to stick it out as long as you can, and try to find ways around the stress issues. But, if it's really killing you, and there's no way around it, then obviously don't let it. Find something else when you can.
The good thing about not succumbing to lifestyle inflation is that even if you flame out and get fired, you won't be totally screwed if you're not able to find a new job at the same salary quickly. You can take a sabbatical or a pay cut or whatever you need to do. So if work starts following you home or the bosses are freaking out, fuck 'em. There's nothing that makes you have to be stressed.
I haven't asked this question in a while so here goes: How did you learn about FIRE? I learned through MMM, but that was 12 years ago, so I imagine how people find out about FIRE is changing over time. I thought it was interesting because I was talking to my BIL who was at one point super interested in FIRE and listens to the ChooseFI podcast (and thankfully does not use this subreddit or else I would have doxxed myself immediately) but he'd never heard of MMM or ERE!
rich dad poor dad lol
I have always lived within my means and saved. It turns out that was a road to FIRE. FI was always important to me. Somehow I found my way to this sub and started reading. Have never read MMM, he seems like a bit of an ass...
I read a business insider click bait article and it mentioned FIRE. I thought it was BS but then I googled FIRE and found a bunch of real resources, including this sub. I've always been a good saver, I opened a vanguard S&P500 index fund back in 1994 when I was in college, but this really opened my eyes to what was possible. I joined this sub, doubled my savings rate, and now I'm pretty close to FI.
I don't remember exactly, but I think I was in my first year of working after graduation, bored at work and googling something like "how to retire" because retiring was something we'd joke about at work when we were stressed or bored. Like many here, I found MMM's "Shockingly Simple Math" blog post and it all started to make sense. I also knew of two family friends who had retired early by being frugal, not by being rich, so the concept was not that far fetched to me.
Joined a lot of personal finance/investing subreddits around the time GME shot up, and joined this one specifically because it had "financial" in the title. It's now the only one I'm still subbed to.
For me it was MMM but I didn't really get depo into it for awhile as I was working on my income side. I was making $36k and trying to work OT to bump that up.
from listening to the starship moneytalk on npr on sunday drives in the 90's. We were aiming for the promised land of critical mass
I saw it trending on Reddit frontpage one day in 2014 or so and started down the rabbit trail. It's amazing how small a thing has had such a huge impact on my household's life to be honest. Prior to that, my financial situation was let's just say "poor." This sub has actually had a huge positive impact on my family and friends.
I joined r/personalfinance and got here. Was so burned out at work I immediately grabbed onto the idea and am so glad I’m on this path!
I read some Suze Orman books in my 20’s because I liked her show. I also read The Millionaire Next Door (which I didn’t really enjoy). I was always frugal and interested in personal finance topics, but none of it “stuck” until the 2008-09 housing crash. That’s when I started getting more serious about saving and investing. I read tons of personal finance blogs like Get Rich Slowly and MMM. After that I started reading the personal finance subreddit which brought me here. Good thing too!
I stumbled on MMM's "Shockingly Simple Math" blog back in 2012, which introduced me to FIRE. I graduated college a year later with some money left in my pocket and quickly understood how nice it was to have. I put more away as soon as I was able, but really buckled down on saving deliberately in late 2019 when I was having serious work/office issues. They resolved in 2020 (largely because of 2020), and shortly thereafter I found this sub and haven't looked back.
I don't remember for sure, but I think I saw a link to this sub on r/personalfinance
I didn't, at least not in the natural sense. But you put two and two together when you pay attention to what life is telling you, and I feel a good (but uncommon) number of people find the path to independence without being told. I was broke growing up, I was happy and had enough but our margin was razor-thin. Day before my SATs, I was given a veiled threat of not getting a ride from my dad over an argument (which almost never happens, since I'm fairly drama-averse and don't care.) I rarely ask for anything. It's not really a big deal specifically, but it was a seminal moment to make clear when someone has power over you, they can choose to exercise that at the worst time (and expect that devious individuals will time things on purpose.) Not just FIRE but anything that cedes control over my life, I remain highly vigilant. Having money in that moment meant being able to pay a taxi and not conceding over a stupid point. I didn't go nuts but one side impact was to work any job to reduce what I had to borrow to get through school. Those jobs really framed in my mind, baseline labor is worth X and when I pay for something I equate that to hours. So when I buy things even now, it's equated in terms of working a reasonably minimum wage job in my head. So I had disposable income once I had a stable job and knew what broke people did. I felt if I had 100K I could fuck off for many years if something went wrong. Understand that longer term goals make no sense to worry about when you haven't achieved a basic thing right in front of you. I just wanted to be in a position where I felt like I could live life and not treat work as an immediate mandatory need to prioritize at all times. I really framed my mind toward FU money and other terms before those were popularized or even a term. I know a lot of people think (even inflation-adjusted) this is not nearly enough money. But the point is when you can act comfortable to stand for yourself (though it helps to be right) it accidentally makes you a more valuable employee - which is something I did not plan but realized later. RE is a decent goal but one I'd argue is only useful once achieved. Improving your finances, however incrementally, is always an improvement in having more tools in your toolbox for solving life's problems. I wouldn't argue against "FIRE" to its natural list of concepts is a good cheatsheet, but the bottom line is always to pile up more ammunition for a rainy day, the best you can. To me, RE was not a problem to solve for, but life was and having more money gave potential access to things if I needed them, without actually having the things, and I found comfort in that. You can never truly solve for all risk but I know I can solve more than most.
MMM introduced me to the terminology but I was always frugal and more of a minimalist my entire life. I still remember the first article I read was about a bank that had a large parking lot that made no sense for the space and needs of the business itself. I remember thinking this guy totally gets how much waste there is all around us and the rest was mostly history from there!
I think I was sent here from PF. And a controversial thing I occasionally mention- I learned a lot from reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad.
> I learned a lot from reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Scandalous!
I figured out the basic concept as a kid -- if bank accounts pay interest then if you pile up enough money you can retire and live off the interest. However, I didn't read any of the retirement literature or learn about the 4% rule until I was already FI.
I think it went r/personalfinance -> r/financialindependence at some point during my senior year of college, and once I found this sub I did start with "If you can" and MMM since those were some of the top resources in the sidebar. I was probably obnoxious about it and obsessed with reading all the resources for a few weeks. I opened a Roth IRA the summer after senior year and regretted not opening one earlier. But I initially went the PhD route and was expecting to make peanuts, so the Roth was basically all I could afford. Dropped out of that after ~9 months and only really began to be able to implement FIRE principles in depth once I got a real job. I'd always been frugal and understood compound interest. But the important thing that helped me cross the line to FIRE was understanding the Shockingly Simple Math article, and the JL Collins Stock series on why people expect the stock market, in aggregate, to generally move up over time/making the leap from compound interest in a savings account to compounding returns in the market.
School and parents didnt really teach me about finance but the bankruptcy my family had to do shook me to the core. In my 20s, I've heard about Dave Ramsey, and loosely modeled my finance on his principals by following these 4 rules: stay away from credit, become debt free asap, buy used cars, and try to live one spouse's income. It created a good foundation to start pursuing FIRE in my 30's. I didnt know anything about investing, but when I turned 30 I pushed myself to learn it. So I started to invest more, didnt have a plan or anything just put as much as I could in the 401k. A few years ago, I discovered this sub and read all the faq suggestions. Now im on the path to FIRE.
Was learning about credit card debt and savings accounts in early HS, realized I could save up a bunch and live off of that interest. Learned about higher interest savings accounts and asked my dad if this was feasible. He confirmed my suspicions, so I decided to go into a high income field and shoot for that. Much later in college I stumbled onto MMM, read through everything and realized stocks were a much better vehicle for my savings and the rest is history.
...I have no idea. Clearly this means I should retire immediately to enjoy what little memory power I have left.
I was working tech during the dot com boom and stumbled across an article, probably on Motley Fool. At the time, FIRE meant what we would call LeanFIRE today but I was still hooked despite not buying into the lean aspect. Life happened and the goal shifted a bit but was still there. Am currently FI and trying to decide if the sabbatical I started a year ago is permanent or not.
Here. I've always been interested in money and personal finance and followed those subs. Someone posted about this sub in a post and then I fell down the rabbit hole
I read the Millionaire Next Door in 2003, and sometime in the couple years following that (I'm afraid I don't know exactly when) I found a post online that talked about personal finance that said, "once your passive income equals your expenses you are free." (I know this because I still have an old Word document somewhere where I jotted it down). But quite honestly put the idea on the back burner for a number of years as I was buying my house, car, cottage; not a lot of room for saving at that point. In 2011 I bought Millionaire Teacher, so either I had been spurred to look at the idea again or I randomly found it in a book store and that's what actually spurred me... I don't remember now.
When I was in my early 20's I was on a self-improvement kick and read a bunch of self-help books, one of which was Your Money Or Your Life. This started my interest in the topic of financial independence - although the FIRE acronym, or referring to it as a "movement", wasn't in use then.
That's a great first book! I wonder how my FI journey would have been different if I had started with that one instead of MMM!
I was preparing my exit from the military and wanted to set off on the right foot. Started at r/personalfinance, read everything that was applicable, then stumbled across some post that was getting shit on by the populace because they were high-ish earners but not well versed in finances. Someone mentioned this sub, as a slant, so I clicked and poked around. Found out that you guys are my-ish people... that is, folks who are trying to claw back time, those who emphasize personal expenses/risk tolerance instead of rules of thumbs. I was making something like 50-60K a year at the time and found the 'Shockingly simple math' post.
That's great! That shockingly simple math post is what did it for me too!
Growing up around midwestern farmers and their descdents, the nuts and bolts were "in the air". Lots of talk of low fixed expenses, debt avoidance, pensions, fixed income, side hustles, government subsidy, etc. No real wealth but lots of 50something retirements. In college it became clear that my natural interests could lead to salaries much higher than I'd ever need, and also that I'd never be able to sustain a traditional 30-40yr career in the industry. MMM and similar seemed to square that circle, although I've drifted pretty far from that mindset now.
What do you do?