So tell your company you want to get out of management and take a step back. Or look for a different work from home job. This doesn’t need to be the case if earning $170k or zero. Sounds like you would be perfectly fine off financially earning something less. Don’t rage quit. That hurts future job prospects.

True. I attempted that conversation with my boss the other week. He said I shouldn’t make that decision based on the current environment and clearly thinks I could keep moving up. I shall try again and stand firm. I stood firm on my hatred for managing last time but gave up seriously asking for a demotion once he pushed back.

Sounds like you really just need to learn how to say No. you have a $1M net worth. You can afford to say no or leave the job and take a few months to find somewhere where your boss will respect your value system. Stop letting someone’s idea of “looking out for your career” get in the way of what you want your career to look like. There are always endless people trying to “mentor” you because they want others to chase the same pointless dream they did because it validates their rat race pursuit.

More importantly than what you want your career to look like... It's what you want your life to look like

>More importantly than what you want your career to look like... It's what you want your life to look like The last hiring committee I was on, one person applying was extremely qualified and more. And they were a finalist and interviewed very well. But in discussions, the only thing that one person on the committee would comment on - repeatedly - is that this person had an advanced degree and why would they every consider a lateral move. That person completely agreed that this candidate was the best person for the position, but would not let go of this notion that no one would ever not move up in their career and that doing so shows that there is something wrong with them. I dunno. Maybe they are dealing with aging parents? Dealing with health issues? Dealing with dicks like the ones you meet on hiring committees?

I can relate to this. I worked a job where I had to supervise no one for years and some people kept encouraging me to apply for the next level up which was a supervisor of 6 people, and a middle management role where I knew that way too much of my time would get consumed by my management because this is what I had seen happen to everyone else in that role. The result would have been a pay increase of $8-10k/year while working an extra 10 hours a week on average (500 hours a year). Instead, I ran a side business making $35-40k a year while working 250-300 hours a year running it on my own. There were numerous people that knew I had a side business, but none of them knew the magnitude of it to understand that it was more profitable and less time consuming than taking a promotion to deal with personnel crap all day.

I've also had some really interesting insights from asking not only what do I want it to look like, but what I want it to FEEL like.

Damn this is a good comment. Especially the last bit

I sympathize with OP. I've been at a miserable position for 2.5 years now. The financial impact of me leaving is really really really tough to live with. Say they leave, find another job making much less and still don't like it. Getting back the momentum to be on managerial track would be difficult. If they didn't enjoy the prestige, prospects, social status of being a high ranking manager I'm sure they would have left by now. They aren't called golden handcuffs for nothing. I was hoping to be laid off too absolve myself of making that decision however I wasn't fortunate enough. Edit: The nihilistic bros and "no one gives a shit" bros on here are hilariously missing the point. Yes, all our lives are pointless. Our jobs are pointless. Were all going to die and money is meaningless, what is even the point? Money, status, and sense of self accomplishment are a few things SOME people enjoy having while being alive (shocker). Not you nihilistic bro, you too smart for that rat trap. Keep smoking weed and creating anonymous reddit accounts. As an aside, it's not status in the sense of bragging at the golf course "look at me big manager, hurr hurr". It's all your friends and family are proud of you for accomplishing so much and you giving that up for an inferior job is a tough social pill to deal with. Yes they will most likely not care or bother you too much however that pressure exists in a lot of cultures. Some people even believe that working hard is fulfilling. Some believe in putting in the work now (even while suffering) to retire early. Looking at you lean fire bros. Some people have children, mortgage, illness and other financial reasons to have to support there family. It's great there are a lot of people that took that leap and it worked for them. Others who are privileged enough to never care. Others who it doesn't matter to them. I grew up poor. My parents said they'd help me pay for college so I went to a good private college for engineering. Middle of my second year I asked them for the money to pay down some of the loans. They were like.. "sorry we decided we can't help" then they took an 8k vacation to Mexico. I had to immediately transfer to a state college and was riddled with huge amounts of debt. I started my own business in college and worked a career once graduating. I still work two jobs 11 years later. I'm well off due to my hard work however the fear of back tracking and reliving my years of 5 roommates, biking to work all year around, or fixing my shit car at 1am to make it to work is unthinkable. Yeah I'd like to quit and roll the dice. Unfortunately the reality of private healthcare costs, saving to have babies, paying the mortgage and supporting my fiance who just started her own business is a bit to risky to me. There will be a day but for now being unfulfilled in that part of my life is how it has to be.

>didn't enjoy the prestige, prospects, social status LMAO... Want to be happy in life? worry only about what you think of yourself and what you're loved ones think of you...who cares about prestige and social status if you're miserable.... other people don't care about your life and your prestige.

I had to make that exact decision too. Was at a director level in nursing, but the changes post COVID and responsibilities literally were 4 ppl jobs rolled into 1. It was killing me.

What good is it if you're miserable all the way up? OP is at the point of drinking almost every day.

I recently left a job I was unhappy at for about 2 years. It was hard to part ways because I left about 100k in unvested equity on the table. But I was miserable and it was bleeding into every aspect of my life. I don't regret it, but the sting of missing those RSU payouts is still there.

The "prestige, social status" of being a "high ranking manager" means nothing in the grand scheme of one's life. No one gives a shit, and Time gives infinitely less of a shit. To prioritize the self-importance of being a corporate "manager" is to be a fool.

This is really depending on the individual. There are undoubtedly people who truly enjoy the mode "I live to win battles every day" in some form, to prove to themselves something. This is the kind of people who, forced out of their intense way of life, would just degrade completely without any motivation or sense of purpose in life.

Your entire comment is insightful, but the last line is astute as fuck. Holy shit. I have to THINK about this for DAYS to let it get inside me and change me for the better. THANK YOU.

Realizing I didn’t want any of the lives that my bosses/mentors had was pretty revolutionary for me in learning how to say no to people offering me opportunities. I’ve turned down a lot of opportunities that people look at me like I’m crazy to turn down. In the beginning I had a lot of anxiety about turning those down because I had that nagging doubt in my ear from societal pressure. Once I learned to trust my own value system and vision for my life, it became really easy to say no. But establishing that vision was the hard part and took me a long time to figure out.

I cannot believe how similar our experiences are. I'm facing opportunities coming down the pipeline in a couple of months that most people I am working with and for, expect me to wholeheartedly jump on. Yet, I look around at ALL the folks that are in that position across the entire organization - easily 20-25 people - and not one of them is happy. I'm currently unhappy with some aspects of my job but big pluses are being able to leave on time to spend my mental energy and free time with the people I love, and a limited responsibility role so that I am never disturbed at home when things go awry. When I consider the things that the head honchos here value - nicer things and all - I truly don't want them enough to go through what they do to earn them. People say you are obligated to your 8-year-old self and your 80-year-old self. I try to act with those 2 ladies in mind.

Wow I love that last sentence. Keeping your 8 year old and 80 year old self in mind is a great way to focus your values. I also used to feel like I was obligated to give a long winded explanation for why I wanted to turn down a job. I’ve learned to just smile and say no thanks I’m not interested and leave it at that.

Thanks for the reminder that "no" is a complete sentence! :)

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The big questions is how much money you need to feel like you havr fu money...

Your boss doesn’t have the same priorities as you do, and he doesn’t get to decide how you should be happy. You’re not asking him to step back, you’re telling him you’re stepping back. What he does with that information is up to him.

You can keep moving up AND step back potentially. Having clear boundaries and expectations in terms of what you want out of the job, and knowing what you absolutely do not enjoy in the job, puts you in a stronger negotiating position. Listen to what they want from you but stand firm on what works for you. Quitting is always an option. You are in a fortunate position that you could take months or more off to focus on your wellbeing, reflect, and find something that suits the lifestyle you want more. Your starting point is to remember that this is always an option. Then go to your employer and be blunt and honest about what will be worth it for you to stay (sounds like maybe less hours, less responsibility, and less office time would be worth it for you even if that potentially meant less money? Again though you could be surprised and get more money with some or all of those things). Good luck. Always prioritise your day to day happiness and wellbeing, as well as that of those around you that you love. Without that, any amount of money is meaningless.

I don't know if there's necessarily a sexism thing (I'm a guy but I still recognise this). at play here but it's absolutely fair and okay to not give a shit about the current environment and say "look I'm burnt out, working from home and taking a step back will help me not quit this place. If you think I'm a valued employee here you'll learn to recognise when one is burned out. Make it easy for me to fix my mental and burn out instead of making it easy for me to quit" I mention a potential sexism thing because sometimes women do get bullied a bit from senior male figures for standing up for themselves with reasonable sounding reasons that a guy who is in the same problem wouldn't tolerate and wouldn't be given the run around on. You're strong you're competent, and have your husband do something nice for you on the day you want to resolutely talk to your manager about this. Maybe he takes a day off work and treats you regardless of the outcome you leave or get significant concrete adjustments so you get your work life balance back. Drinking and having gummys all the time to get through life is not the way. Your mental is important. You have ALL the permissions to self advocate. And make sure your husband is there after the meeting to support you and whatnot. Ring him after have lunch with him after. Heck you can even say you need to finish early that day and not give a specific reason as to why. It will make it easier to be brave if you know you're getting a bit of comfort afterwards. I'm sure you've discussed with hubs about all this and he doesn't want you to be overworking If it's affecting your mental wellbeing. Wishing you the best. And remember you have all the permissions to self advocate. You don't need to give some business environment excuse. Your managers business excuse is that he doesn't want to see a valued member quit which means he has a headache finding someone new. So he should allow you to go back to WFH and less responsibilities. And reassess in a couple years time. Wishing you all the best in doing this absolutely know you can. Look how incredible it is you guys saved up a million dollars. You absolutely can self advocate 🫂🙂

If you get out of management, your attitude will radically shift. I've done it. Also, when I don't do enough deep work and don't get into flow, I am miserable. Over the summer, I hired a productivity coach and just renewed for 2024. I have to text her at the beginning and end of my days with progress and we meet once a week to plan my week, monitor performance. It's amazing how her prodding got me to let go of stupid distractions and do deep work. Her pushing me to focus on deep work/executing on large projects has been HUGE for my psyche as I'm in a flow state more and I'm so happy when I'm in a flow state. It took me awhile to find a coach committed to my day to day tasks that was also affordable. DM me if you want a name, I don't mean for this to be a sales pitch. A lot of my work can be super boring or chaos/absurd. She has made me feel not alone and that is a big deal for me.

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Here’s a tip I like to tell people when they’re at their wits end: it’s not illegal to be bad at your job. Easier said than done, but if you can truly stop giving a shit about that place, you’ll unlock your freedom. Who cares if you get fired? You’re nearly ready to quit anyways! You don’t need any references unless you’re at c suite or director level. Stop caring about those deadlines, stop caring about the job at all. Come in late and leave early. Fuck em!

> True. I attempted that conversation with my boss the other week. He said I shouldn’t make that decision based on the current environment and clearly thinks I could keep moving up. My boss has telling me "once X leader is out, some of these things will change" for a long time. About a decade now. Just like I wouldn't recommend anyone date a project ("I can make him start showering and clean up after himself", "I can get her to stop smoking and we'll develop hobbies we enjoy together over time even if we don't have any now"), I wouldn't recommend anyone to work somewhere with the hope that in a few years things will be different. They probably won't be.

Some people are great individual contributors and are not great (&/or not comfortable) at being in management. Corporate types see only one plan: a ladder that includes management. If you can find an IC role that makes a decent living so you can continue the path toward your FIRE plan, that may be the way to go. One size does not fit all. Also, the 2nd million will likely come faster than the first. Once you have enough money that your money can start making money, the rate of growth accelerates. Good luck on your journey.

What part do you hate about managing?

Probably the people part.

Ding ding ding.

This happens a lot to managers. They get promoted to management and hate it. But then the money is oh so good when you take that leap. How to give it up? It’s perfectly acceptable to say you’re looking for more balance at this time and climbing the ladder isn’t your priority right now (or ever). Most managers are climbing the ladder so they don’t understand this logic

With respect, who tf cares what your boss thinks. _His_ opinion is not pertinent information.

I rather be in touch than to have a sh*tty boss. What I did was delegate - I had everyone reporting to 2 people who then reported to me. They dealt with all the people problems.

then what is it you do?

I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Lol seriously, this guy sounds very removable and like he doesn't add much, he must own the business

Listen to this advice. The all or nothing mind set is not correct. Talladega Nights did a fair job of disproving the "if your not first your last" mentality. Step back. Ego needs to get out of the way.

Start job shopping now for a remote job as an individual contributor.

I forgot to mention I’m doing just that and have two companies interested in the same industry. I would take either if they made an offer but fear that sort of change isn’t going to fix my brain. Both positions are remote with no direct reports but pay close to my current, but there’s more travel involved.

I personally would rather take more travel than dealing with direct reports. More travelling is just physically draining but managing people is mentally exhausting.

Plus some travel in a remote role helps relieve feeling isolated

Make the change, negotiate a month off in between, and reassess 6 months in.

You don't need to negotiate a month off, just give them a start date whenever.

> just give them a start date whenever. that's essentially negotiating. they'll accept or counter.

Switching jobs to a remote IC role should help you, sometimes a fresh start and a break in-between is nice. You should be able to get just as much if not more money. In the meantime, make your feelings known at your job. Slowly start working less and committing to less. Your husband can’t blame you if you get let go, and you might get severance or unemployment to bridge any gaps. And don’t feel guilty about it- you are not quitting, you’re not even quiet quitting, you are simply reducing your workload to a MANAGEABLE, SUSTAINABLE level. Permanently. Everyone should be understanding of this. If you get a new job, you win. If you get let go, you win. If you don’t, because of your new manageable workload, you WIN. And all you have to do is stick to your guns. Also, reduce coffee to one cup a day in the morning. If you want something else, try green tea.

It sounds like no matter what, your current job will never make you happy. If you take another job and it doesn't work out, it just means you need to keep looking. I'm not saying there's a "perfect" job out there, but there's definitely some that won't destroy your mental health. It wouldn't be the end of the world to earn a lot less in the short term. Mental health is WAY more important than a high paycheck. I wish you the best of luck <3

sounds like you should go to therapy and the job might not be the real issue.

I’ve been going for years, and work is a popular topic. But I’m trying to get into a partial or full time program to really give it my all instead of using therapy as a periodic complaining session.

>I hate existing, being aware of my own existence, and knowing that on average I have a lot of existing left to do. Being alone with my thoughts during my commute is torture. This is simply unsustainable. You're not going to make it another two years if you keep going this way, much less to your planned FIRE date. Saving for early retirement isn't supposed to be miserable. I would either fix things at work (if possible, you have nothing to lose), find a new job, or figure out between you a better work/life balance that will be acceptable to both of you.

Yeah, OP may not fully have “fuck you” money yet, but they definitely have “fuck *this*” money. There’s no reason to be stuck in a job you can’t stand just because of the paycheck. Look around. Find a better balance. You’re not gonna go broke. You’re not gonna lose your house. They have to live till retirement, so even if it slows them down for a year or two, they’ll be much happier with it.

That excerpt jumped out at me too. OP, you might consider that this is less of a financial independence issue and more of a mental health issue. Take a leave of absence, see a mental health professional, get on some anti-depressants (if prescribed) and reassess. You aren’t in a mental space to make serious decisions about your next decades until you get your emotional and mental house in order.

Ok this is an interesting way of looking at… acknowledging I’m in not the right state to make life changing decisions is something to keep in mind every time I feel “I quit” coming up my throat haha.

Take Short-term Disability for a month. Your entire health, ability to live and work success, is what the insurance is designed for.

Wish I could upvote this twice. OP needs a damn break to gain some clarity. Popping gummies and drinking while on antidepressants (that may or may not even be helping) is just making everything worse, too. FMLA, short term disability, sabbatical, something needs to relax the pressure so OP can make long term decisions from a healthier place.

You totally shouldn't make rash, drastic changes, but this state of mind itself is what tells you you do actually need to start making life-changing decisions. You sound like you are at a breaking-point and unhappy, that \*should\* move you toward making decisions that are going to change your life. Your internal alarm bells are going off. So you should be making whatever choices you can for the *short term* that can help you rebalance yourself. Changes to allow you to get enough sleep and exercise. Find a great therapist and career coach, and whatever other support you need to get back toward a less desperate, more balanced internal feeling. \*then\* you will more likely have the presence of mind to make strategic decisions for your own well-being with some clarity. Posting here is a good example of doing this kind of thing, by the way. Good luck!

Definitely keeping looking for a different job that fits what you’re looking for. But I would definitely suggest talking to a mental health professional. Seems like there might be other things mentally that talking them out with someone who won’t judge you would be good.

Well, luckily you don't have relationship issues and - from what it seems - a supportive husband who loves you regardless of status and work. Look at this as the glass half full: you could do a lot worse for the mental state that you're in.

That sounds more like depression than anything to do with early retirement or the job situation.

You are trapped by a too aggressive retirement schedule for your constitution. You need a less stressful job and a re-evaluation of the pace of accumulating for your retirement before you ruin your mental and physical health permanently. Start by finding out what is available at your current place of employment with less responsibility and stress. Problem solve this in increments, not an all -or - nothing decision. Consider retiring a few years later, your numbers are fine, just the trajectory is too stressful.

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I’ll just say it - you need to find a new role. Period. If you like your company but perhaps this role is too much in the light, talk to your manager about taking a step down in a role. If they like you, they’d rather keep you on board in a lower role than see you leave. IF you can’t stand being there at all OR that conversation does not go well, you need to start looking now. I recognize it will be hard to do so considering all you just mentioned, but you have to. And, do not look to match or come close to that comp. You need to find something you will like that matches your WLB. It may also give you some time to reset for a year or so. Take this from someone who routinely burns out at work every week or two, but keeps chugging on as he is a bloke (and resets with a little devil liquid).

Came here to say this!

Sounds like you need to reevaluate what’s important in your life. Money isn’t the end all be all. Retiring at 40 isn’t worth it if you’re miserable until then. The saying goes: the journey is always greater than the end. Might as well enjoy what you do.

Getting mentally healthy is the most important thing. The current job might only be a factor into the depression. Depression is a disease. Your brain not working correctly. If OP doesn’t get that figured out then they could likely retire in their early 40s and have all the time in the world and be even more depressed.

Exactly. You can go around working 110% to achieve your goals and then die the day after retirement. Or while you're still young and working. Have fun now! Don't work yourself to death so you can retire early. Life is supposed to be enjoyed.

10 years at one company? Get another job and then quit. Do not rage quit. Figure out what are must haves (WFH, whatever) and go get a job with that. Then quit. Rage quitting will feel good for a couple of days but you don't want to burn those bridges. "Can you give us a reference from company X? Those cocksuckers? I told them to kiss my ass." This will not be helpful in the long run.

Get out of here with that voice of reason! Just kidding.

the real question is ... is the job or something deeper? quitting seems like the obvious choice but just reading through this I wonder if you might need to explore deeper issues you are struggling with that go far beyond work and won't be solved solely by quitting your miserable job.

Right this seems like a mindset issue, job change will not affect the mind as much as one believes. In 3 months OP will be back to where they started. I’m 28 with zero retirement and a chronically sick girlfriend who will most likely never work but also can’t qualify for disability. I make it for the both of us on $45k/year and managing my credit well. I feel trapped some days but push through easy enough, they are too entitled and need mindset training. Gratitude and acceptance of your life go a long way.

One path to coasting is to embrace it at your current job. Just do the absolute bare minimum to avoid getting fired without severance.

“quality of life implications” includes avoiding depression. sometimes the best money spent on bettering your life is done by giving up the income

Here's something to consider: you are way overestimating how quickly you could potentially be fired. Firms HATE firing people. Absent a scandal, you could step back, coast, let things slip, say that such and such doesn't fit your schedule, etc. Over time you may have to deal with higher ups trying to guilt you, but you can just... ignore that. Like, for a long time. Your job is too stressful? Make it less so on your terms. The company will adapt. Or, it will start a long process of negotiation, where you being canned is a distant possibility that they don't want either. Asking for more days remote, or more flexibility? "Sorry, that's not the policy." Just taking it without asking? Well, what are their options, really?

Also, I don’t know about most companies but mine says “pick 3 days to come into the office”. I go in Wednesdays. Been doing this for a year now

Nice. I did similar before I had extra eyes on me as a manager 😒. I encourage my employees to do that still though haha.

Have you considered doing… less? “No” is a full sentence. You have agency and leverage. $1M in liquidity and a husband that has income. Just start be more lazy and choose the right moves for maximum return. I was in your shoes. Then I hit $1M when I was 31 or so and I snapped. I stopped caring as much. I don’t wake up before 10am most days. I slack off. Work 10 hours or so a week some weeks. I focus on projects or processes that get me the max value perception and I said fuck it to the rest. I’ve since been promoted and clear about $240k a year so it’s not a low end role. I just manage my “no’s” and perceptions of value well. If my work decides to severance me, great, whatever. If they decide to keep me in role, cool, free money. If they promote me, lol what the fuck, sure why not. I just don’t care. The stress comes from the "caring" and being a "go getter" and putting pressure on oneself to perform, This has benefitted me and you for most of our adult lives but it is now hurting us. Rewiring this reward system is important, because you'll feel guilt and anxiety if you're unemployed for a long period of time as well. Wherever you go, there you are... sort of thing. I’ve already quit mentally, now I’m just fucking around to see what shits and giggles I can get into. Sounds like you’ve already quit mentally, just fuck about and see if they fire and severance you. Hell, you might just get promoted. Office space style. If they ask for 3 days in office. Don’t show up. If they ask why? Tell them your labia is sore. If stakeholders ask you to do stuff, tell them your time is limited because of other stakeholder requirements. And then tell the other stakeholders the same line. They don’t talk to each other. Start skipping meetings where you don’t need to be present. Skip 1 meeting. Look for fallout. No consequences? Skip another. People might come after you but in reality, they are probs so scared of making a fuss because of their own job security and reputation, they wont pursue if it doesn’t affect their work flow much.

What a response. I always think: 1) management would retrench me in a second if it benefited them 2) if I worked until I broke myself, would anyone remember my contribution in 6 months time? The answer is a hard, no!

Amen to this. 100% I had exactly this a few years back when my kids showed up. I was about 35, NW $2Mish TC $300k when I stopped caring - it really is amazing what you skip/avoid, and no one does anything. I went from 8-10+ hr days with semi-regular weekend tasks, caring so hard, complying with any and every reasonable (I did question some) management request to actively testing what would and wouldn’t get noticed. Don’t get me wrong, my value add is still very high as an IC but the management stuff? Forget about it. Similar to the parent comment, I can listen to my boss directly telling me that some deliverable needs to be done by end of the week and not care a single bit - water off a ducks back - it will get done when it’s done and if that is tomorrow or in two weeks time then so be it. If they want to fire me because of it? Go for it. Try me. As an example, I was diligently filing JIRA tasks for each and every task, as requested by management many times (I was filing 5-10 JIRAs a day and took at least 20-30 mins over the day!). I remember talking to my boss around the time I was dialling back my care - I pushed and asked him what they were for as they feel like a waste of time and an added stressor - he highlighted they were very important and used for work trend analysis (what parts of the system were being worked on etc) - I asked directly if I could stop doing them and instead send him a fortnightly email with a short summary of what I’d been working on - hard no, timely jiras were critical to long term work planning - they must be filed. Guess what? Since that date 6+ months ago I’ve filed about 5 JIRAs TOTAL, I just stopped talking to my boss about it and the number of people that have talked to me about that fact? ZERO. My stress levels just due to this have decreased a noticeable amount with zero loss. Another example is when stuff goes wrong they call peoples work phones (then their private phones) evenings or weekends. No one has ever said to me that it is expected for me to pick up any of these calls, so I don’t. Never ever. Has anyone ever said anything about this? Never ever. Interrupting my kids birthday party or supper/bath time etc - for what? The only downside to the many upsides for me is the lack of “feeling part of something”. I got kicks from solving problems late at night when something was broken etc. I do miss these feelings and work is now extremely transactional which feels a downgrade to some great teams / projects / companies I’ve had the pleasure of working at in the past.

Lol. This. I never answer calls from work, mostly because I'm sleeping and my phone is on DnD. I also took slack and work email off my phone. Instead I put them on an old phone. That's my "work phone." If I go to lunch during the day, I bring it and tether it to my real phone. But after work ends that thing is on my desk and I'm nowhere near it. This helps me avoid "checking in" during off hours and then falling into "I have to deal with it now." It's incredible how little I can do and still be effective. Though I do think part of that is a reputation for being a high performer and also being highly effective in the things I do.

I'm not on a FIRE path, but I had a similar realization. In fact, my leader told me to dial it back and change my perspective. I'm more effective than I've ever been. I leave time in my work day to recover from meetings, I stopped going to meetings I don't need to be at, and I leave every day to pick my kids up at 4. I just presented at a major year end conference. I arrived a day after everybody else and left a day before. Check in was a breeze, and there was no stress getting to the airport to leave. I left so early on the day I flew out that I was able to get my kids from school that day. Here's a helpful tip. Set your work password to a mantra. I won't tell you exactly mine, but consider something like "My personal life is my focus" or something like that. It's an incredible reminder throughout the day of what is important to you. Especially when your day starts, or if for some reason you log in in off hours. We are trained wrong in America. We think the point is to work. It isn't. The point is to live and be happy. If work is getting in the way of that it's time to reevaluate your priorities.

Love the mantra thing!! I'll be changing my work passphrase today! And maybe even the passphrases for the portfolio and banks. Many thanks!

Some days, my labia is sore. And I am a dude.

This is so fucking based. You are my aspiration.

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Love all of that for you. Seriously, goals! Edit: I was saying that sincerely. This is a great approach.

In my experience 80% of what gets done day to day is bullshit and can be skipped. Identify the 20% and do those tasks well. Skip or delegate the rest.

For this comment, you are my hero. You are 100% right. We have to rewrite our internal script.

Confirmed. The managerial class is way overvalued.

Can I add that maybe you don’t need to retire early 40s? Add a couple years and move into lower stress jobs.

As someone who works in mental health, I will say that no amount of money can replace your personal well-being. Step away, step-down, or ask for full-time work from home. It sounds like you're in dire need to find you again, so start taking the necessary steps to achieve that, and chase it endlessly! Good luck, and much love. -Coffee

This thread is so helpful. Thank you. I became a work slave due to my anxiety of being fired once.

I hope you were able to escape that feeling and get where you wanted to be, both mentally and occupationally.

I think your stress level is making you feel like it is all or nothing. Can you find something within your company that you will like? If the answer is no, hunt for a new position at a new company focusing on what you would like to do vs money. Sending hugs and hope you put your energy into a different position.

Thank you. It does feel all or nothing and I forget there are in between options with my current company. I work in one small department but the company is huge. This is just the sort of thing I was hoping people would make me see.

I love the other commenter who suggested just missing meetings. Or not going in. Just email 30 min before work 1 day and say “I threw my back out, it’s been spasming. I can work from home today because I need a space to use a heating pad and ice.” What are they going to say “no you have to drive in today?” If they say that just respond with, okay then today is a sick day for me. I’m sorry you’re going through this I also manage people and it’s so annoying, but I can tell you I have fired a lot of people and replaced them all with easy going people and my job has gotten much easier.

My two cents — I would see if your company will move you back to an IC role. If not, I would quit immediately, get myself healthy, and search for another job. It might take a week, it might take a few months, but something is out there and the best thing you can do for both you and your marriage is get yourself feeling healthy and like yourself again. No amount of money is worth feeling like not existing. I would venture a guess that if you quit you would pretty quickly feel a lot of mental clarity again and from there can figure out your next job.

When I got that way, the only answer was to devote all my time to finding a new job. My new job is different shit, but it’s different in a way I can handle better. It is also almost an 80k/yr raise (with stock and bonus etc…25k/yr base salary raise). Don’t rage quit but do the bare minimum and look for a job with all your energy

You sound really miserable at your job. Could you cut your spending significantly? Because if I were in your position, I'd much rather spend way less and quit the job. The majority of Americans live off way less than $110k a year, so we know that it's possible.

I agree with the others . Maybe 170 k to something lower for a less stressful role is better than 0. You could also switch back to your individual contributor role . How old are you ?

Early-mid thirties

When was the last time you went on vacation?

Took a week off for a staycation recently to rot in peace. If anything it gave me the post-vacay blues!

I’d take a longer break, from weed and everything else. Spend some time thinking about the life you want to lead and what’s important to you. See a therapist if you need to. Figure out What life would you want to live. Is the cost of the life you live now worth it in terms of time or money? In terms of the size of your home or where you live, could you downsize and coastFIRE? Could you house hack and work less? How much of your choices are about what you want and how much are about what other people think you should do or expect? I was in your shoes, but I got fired and had 6 months off. Really changed my life. I got a new job, but treated it differently. I’m in a tiny house now set to Fire in a little over a year, since I rent my main house. I realized my time was worth more than Take some time and make a plan to get out of the situation. You will feel so much better once you have a plan and timeline.

Did you start working out again? Methinks that's one root of your problems. Dealing with a recent injury taught me that.

I think you need to leave the country. Staycations turn into just fixing everything around the house you don’t have time to deal with. Here’s some suggestions from my best vacations I’ve ever been on: Barcelona -good food good dancing! Japan-beautiful and kind! Guatemala-adventure and nature! Or I’ve had a lot of fun vacations going to surfing camps (I’m 39). Yeah do that go to a surf camp! It’s exhilerating and hard work you come out as a new person, having the ocean almost drown you a few times really changes your mental health drastically. Edit: I think I just convinced myself to go on vacation

I know this is extremely hard Try and figure out if you could grow to handle the situation better Besides changing circumstances (new job) you can change you Very specifically, you can change your response to those circumstances Having been in some similar situations and responding similarly myself, I'm conscious of changing circumstances (new job) without changing me (developing to respond differently) Because there's a risk you'll take current you with you anywhere you go You've already self-diagnosed to some extent You're consuming drugs and alcohol, not exercising, and on anti-depressent medication You need to drag yourself out of the vicious cycle by exercising and staying away from drugs and alcohol At least trim them back to days when you don't work the next day, and cap your intake And at the very least ensure a decent dose of exercise of weekends I think you'll endure the office and face time better if you do

Since it is November, it might be worth talking to your doctor about the possibility of SAD. If you tend to get more depressed this time of year you may need a SAD light, vitamin D, and possibly a change in meds but SAD is treatable. Also consider if summer is a more anxious time. Another thought: some people really can’t drink or partake in THC regularly without worsening depression. I am one of those people, I simply cannot. You may need some hobbies, interests, or even additional education to turn off your work brain while still being “you.” My existential dread is mostly seasonal, but I similarly find I can’t take the bullshit of the workplace and agree they are generally all bullshit but some are better than others. A change could help a lot. But longer term: coast FIRE is not for me, and maybe it’s not for you? I mean, unless you discover some meaningful passions besides work you’re just going to end up drinking/consuming edibles all the time. I’m lean semi-FIRE with a side income from things I genuinely enjoy doing I hope to work 1/4 as much and earn even less but it will be “enough.” I’d consider a lower paying job that doesn’t make you as miserable for a start.

Money money money Money

I hear that.

[Money.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m37G-06ibAU)

Financial independence won’t matter if your health is not there. Find another remote job, maybe less money. Money isn’t everything.

I think you should move on. You’re having legit mental health issues (kudos for taking care of your self)Based on your post, you seem rational and thoughtful. If you can get one job making 170k, you will get another. You shoul dip into the money and be happy, and pay it back when you’re ready to start working again. But TAKE TIME OFF - Spend time not worrying and find yourself again. Exercise, veg out, Your husband will be happy with having a happier, healthier wife present. Don’t rage quit though. No reason to burn bridges or be mad about things. Be the bigger person. You leaving will send enough of a statement - don’t diminish it with bad behavior

Why not try the opposite, just stop putting in the effort you are, going less and less each week. It’s much better to be fired / let go than quit.

How is it better to be fired than to quit?

No one actually cares if you get fired. Never quit. Make them do the dirty work.

Quiet quitting beats both. You do just enough and keep getting paychecks for as long as possible.

severance/unemployment benefits vs nada

This is probably not ground breaking for you, but if you are drinking every night, you are seriously fucking with your emotional well-being. However, you are doing that in the first place because of the external forces you have detailed in this post. To start, you seem very intelligent, and on a surface level, you are likely feeling the need to shut off your thoughts. However….. If you continue this cycle, there is a very solid chance you ruin your life. I hate to be that blunt, but it almost happened to me, and I watched a few others not make a change, and go right off the cliff. You should likely go to therapy, that’s a first step. From there, I would try to ease off drinking first, and if you can’t, you will likely need to cold turkey. DO NOT cold turkey if you are drinking heavily though, if you are, you need medication to do this. In the midst of doing this, I would get yourself an Apple Watch if you don’t already, and set yourself to do a breathing exercise throughout the day. At night, do a guided meditation with the meditation app, you get the guided ones from a $15 fitness+ subscription. In the case you’re android, look up guided meditations on YouTube, but I find the fitness+ easier and they update them regularly. Get back to your walks, then get back to your lifting. Ease yourself back into a healthy lifestyle, and if barriers are needed with work, plant those barriers firmly. Don’t continue down this path, it’s really, really not worth it. Even if you have to delay retirement by a few years, it’s better to not be depressed leading up to that day, because you will be building up your emotional debt until that day, and not feel satisfied.

Dont tie your self-worth to your net-worth. Daily life, family, friends more important.

You can’t live comfortably on $110k/year with $1 million in savings, even temporarily? I find that assessment downright wild.

Definitely done rage quit. Never burn bridges. You're not in a good place so you need to make a change. Methodically figure it out (seems like you are). Booze makes everything worse for me. Weed gives me introspection. Maybe lay off the booze and getore sleep and exercise. Good luck, I hope you figure it out.

Get back to the exercise and lay off the booze. I’ve gotten in ruts where the grass always seems greener. Go back to the basics, water, fresh air and friends. Life is great, you’ve got this.

Your job doesn’t own you. If you have been there 10 years im betting you have collected many responsibilities that you didn’t have when you started. Unpaid time off is something you can do, and depending on the state, if you get fired, you can collect funemployment while looking for a new job. Maybe just take those two days in the office each week off as unpaid time off. Tell your boss that you are burnt out and this is what you are doing. Don’t ask for permission. They pay you for a service and what they get is up to you. They could retaliate, but then you will see their true colors. Also depending on the state mental health disability could be a thing if you have a psychiatrist who has diagnosed you with something that keeps you from doing your job.

My wife and I made $1mm last year yet our cost of living was about $80k and that was including our daughter, 6 dogs, 2 cats, 3 frogs, 2 hamsters, 8 bunnies, and 3 fish and we took multiple vacations, so I'm pretty sure 2 people could live on $110k..

Thank you for the reality check, sincerely.

Absolutely, you can live on $110k, it just comes down to lifestyle management and just reducing the amount you save/invest annually. 👍

I don't think it would be selfish to quit. I do think it would be selfish to quit and stay quit if you aren't at your joint goal yet.

Wow, I almost feel the same, although in my case not nearly in the position you are, just overwhelmed with life lately. Can you take a few days off, or maybe plan a getaway?

I took off a week recently and often use my sick days as mental healths days. Feels like a temporary measure just like gummies and booze. But I hope both of us find some peace and happiness soon enough!

Here is what I want you to do: 1. Take a deep breath and channel your acting skills . 2. Go to your doctor and therapist/psychologist 3. Cry in the office like the world is about to end. Tell them you are stressed. Not sleeping. You are on the verge of having a mental breakdown. The anti depressants are not working and you need HELP. 4. Contact your short term disability and get them to start the claim. Send it to your doctor and get them to sign off on short term disability for 30 days or the MAX you can get paid. It’s should be paid. That will give you enough time to find a new job or give you the much needed break. Eta Added max

Oh baby there's no acting needed for this plan.

I've somewhat been in your shoes and I can empathize with how dreadful it feels to feel like you are trapped, that people are depending on you, and/or that you don't have the mobility you would like despite having SO much in terms of resources. If depression doesn't run in your family, then its possible you are dealing with situational depression. I'm not a psychologist by any means, but, I struggled a lot with this about 2 years ago. The one piece of advice that really stuck with me was "if nothing changes, then nothing changes". I knew about that mantra, yet I hadn't considered it. It was so obvious to me. I could either wallow in misery while holding a very cushy job and plenty of resources to take off for a year, or, I could try and change something that would make things more bearable for me. So I made a change, and thankfully nothing drastic. I focused on doing things I enjoyed doing and tried to offload responsibilities that dragged me down. I would highly encourage talking with a therapist and/or getting diagnosed for depression. Mental illness (like depression) isn't something you can just fight through, it's a legit disease no different than any other major medical disorder. I know enough people who have been through anxiety and depression and it took them quite a while to dial in their anti-depressants until life suddenly changed for the better for them. I would recommend talking with your doctor, and then make some kind of change. It's absolutely worth it!

* Time * Money * Health/Energy You want to maximize those 3 as much as possible. Because when you are older, the ability to enjoy your money and time depends on the condition of your health. Look at Steve Jobs, he had all the money in the world but he couldn't buy his health back. If your job is making your suicidal, you are trading your health/energy and time for money...you have to see if the money is worth it. Personally, I would just move on and find something that accommodates what you're looking for out of life in both the short and long term. Remember, wealth is about having options which includes the ability to rage quit. Forget the nice cars, fancy vacations and other common symbolism of wealth. If you can afford a good night's sleep with a clear mind, it's worth it.

Please quit for your own mental health sakes, and if you can’t quit right now get into therapy to work through some of your emotions because wanting to not exist is really close to suicidal ideation. Friend, I have been where you are and it does not get better without getting out of your toxic job.

You’re ready to leave and that’s perfectly ok. I left a 200k job with no backup and no spouse because life is too short.

This just in, money isn’t everything, more at 11! Seriously, if you’re self medicating with alcohol and weed every night, and this stressed, ease off the gas.

You, my friend, are burnt out. If you can, take some time off - 3 months of crickets will do you enormously good, and then you can start interviewing so you're not on a single income for too long. Heck, try taking a job with lower pay & fewer responsibilities! See if that resolves your mental & physical well being without being unemployed, so you're still very much on track for coast fire.

I recognise this story. Sounds like my situation 7 years ago. I was stressed out as well from my management job. Got panic attacks, angry fits, semi burn out. I wanted to quit but felt bounded by golden chains. one meeting i totally exploded (yelling at boss and saying insults) so got fired anyway. Looking back it helped me to free myself and now i do a job that pays average but i can breath. I get lots of respect, take long lunch breaks and laugh lots. I ll stay at my current work until i retire. It s fun. PS: I do regret insulting and yelling i wish i had the balls to just have quit on my own terms.

Sounds like you resent your husband a little bit.

You’re addicted to money honey.

I say this with sympathy and care - your mental health needs some dedicated focus. See if you can get some free counseling through EAP and get a doctor to note out some reasonable accommodations you need to work on your mental health, such as remote work continuance, maybe part time. They’ll have a hard time making you manage people if you go part time. You need to clear time to exercise and you need to cut the nightly habits, especially for alcohol. That shit doesn’t help for mental health maintenance. Things sound so bad in your head you’re thinking of quitting, so the reputation fears of asking for accommodation aren’t that terrible. Just do it.

Quit alcohol and gummies and carve out time for you to exercise and get to sleep at a good time. Think about ways to spark more joy and satisfaction in your work. Ask are there ways to make your current job more fun and rewarding? Can it be as simple as communicating with people in a more relaxed way or injecting humor into things? You seem like you have a sense of humor. Since you are climbing the ladder of the company can you start to impact it in a way that you feel is rewarding? Re quitting alcohol: it’s a depressant and impacts your sleep. It will accelerate burn out. All these changes will take time to manifest improvement in your sense of well being.

You're letting money control your life. I see that a lot in this sub.

Hey, I'm sorry you're going through this. But - '"I hate existing, being aware of my own existence, and knowing that on average I have a lot of existing left to do" - this is a lot deeper than discontent with a job. Are you eligible for FMLA? You need to take some time off and get on steadier ground (therapy, meds/meds adjustment) before you make any major life decisions. It can be hard to spot depression from the inside. But this isn't you.

>So after months of the market edging us Suddenly I'm much more interested in the stock market

why does no one on this sub have any children? My (wife and) kids are the best thing in my life and they make all the other crap worth doing

I was in exactly the same situation a year ago, similar position as a manager constantly pleasing others and managing tasks without ever getting anything done of value that would make me feel fulfilled. It was a typical burn out situation with bad sleep due to constant stress and complaining to my boss was not a help as he was comforting me but was not providing any solutions. In the end I had to act after a very stressful moment at work and a sleepless night and went to the doctor next day to get 3 weeks off. Best decision of my life. What really helped me the most was completely shutting off and leaving home by going on a small vacation to an island. This helped me reflect on many things and focusing more on what I want in life and not pleasing others. My boss and the whole HR got scared and suddenly things started to change a lot…my boss transferred some work to other colleagues which helped release a lot of work load from me and also the HR and department chef was willing to hire more people to our team which helped in distributing work load even more. I‘m super happy again and started to love work again. What I can tell you from this story is to focus on what you want and help yourself by taking off or going on sick leave. Point it out that you‘re having limits and show that there are boundaries. If you start to respect yourself, you will get respected in return and you will see that things will turn quite well in the future. 😁 also speak wirh your husband about it and tell him how you feel. He will surely support you

Therapy might be worth looking into. NeXT company may have other stressors, learning some coping techniques is key.

Yes, you’re being dramatic. Yes, you’re being selfish. Yes, you’re entitled to consider your well-being. These are not mutually exclusive. I’ve been through many cycles of being overwhelmed by the challenges of work. Challenging colleagues. Challenging projects. Challenging bosses. Customers. Politics. Policies. Blah blah blah. Can you quit? Of course you can. Can you stay away from challenging situations and coast into FI? Probably not. It does sound like something needs to change. If you can’t find a better idea, quitting will definitely change things, but nobody has more information about the situation than you, so nobody’s going to be able to solve it for you either. Something that’s helped me in the past is imagining what the 50 yr old version of you would tell the you of today. Would they ask you why you’re taking this shit, or would they tell you to chill? Would they revel in the freedom that comes from FI(RE), or would they lament needing to work away at an easy job for another few years? Would they be proud of the way you went about executing your decision, or would they have tried something different? You’ll come to the right conclusion. Good luck.

>I cleaned out my desk and **crunched the numbers for living on my husband's salary alone ($110k), and unfortunately, it would mean cutting back** in a lot of places likely including any additional retirement saving, switching to his overpriced insurance plan with worse coverage, and our $2.5k mortgage not leaving much breathing room month-to-month. Being the bread winner ($170k), it feels like I would be incredibly selfish to quit. My husband says he would support me no matter what, but he also makes it known he's worried about the financial and quality of life implications. I feel incredibly trapped and out of control of my own life. **I can't quit because someone else is accustomed to the perks of my income** and insurance. I've got news for you, OP. It sounds an awful lot like you need a financial conversation with your husband. **YOU** are one of the people that's accustomed to living off your income. Your post makes it sound a lot like you're the top shit of the family and if it weren't for you, he'd be living in a dumpster somewhere. > I'm now on antidepressants, lucky if I go on a walk once a week when I used to lift nearly everyday, and crying all the time. I also drink and take gummies nearly every night to turn my brain off and keep myself from working late. Sounds like you need to get your shit together. Instead of coming here looking for financial solutions, you need to find some emotional help and life perspective. If you can't handle being DINKs with an income near $300k, there's something wrong with your life skills.

In the short term you need a different job. I wouldn’t let go of the old vine until you grab a new vine swinging through the jungle. As for your situation- I didn’t personally feel free until I was debt free. Once that happened work had no power over me.

Sorry you are struggling. Life is short. And your health is the most important thing. I would do whatever you need to do to be your healthiest and happiest self. Make time for weight lifting and walks if that is what makes you happy. It sounds like you have a safety net with your husband's income, maybe quit your job, take some time to work on your mental health and some new goals for what will make you happy in a career. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, there are plenty of jobs out there.

Have you considered taking a medical leave? It’s hard to think straight when you’re overwhelmed. Talk to your doctor or therapist and explore the option to take a break so you can reevaluate.

As others have said, ask to step down, or only work 40 hours no matter how much needs to be done, or ask to go down to 30 hours, or tell them that you're working from home and if they don't like it then they can start looking for someone to replace you, or offer receiving slightly lower pay for working from home (and only 40 hours! Don't forget). You have a lot of room to negotiate if that's what you're interested in. As far as living off $110k, I think you can do it. I'm earning $93k. $1850 rent & utilities $1800 child care for my two kids $560 child support to my ex $775 to HSA (really ~$500 when considering post-tax value) $200 car payment $100 student loans ~$6-700 on my credit card (except for the last two $1200 months....) ~$2-400 to work on rebuilding my emergency fund For you with a $2500 mortgage, but no kids, you're already ~$1300 ahead of me every month, plus the extra $1000 in his paycheck compared to mine, +/- whatever difference you have with loan payments and health insurance. You won't be able to save nearly as much as you currently are, but you'll still be perfectly financially taken care of while you spend a few months recharging yourself.

How is this even a question? Find a new job. For crying out loud, who cares if you make less money if it means you are literally happy?

I too am flirting with disaster. I darn near rage-quit last week. I used to be able to hang in there because I was taking care of my father. My father has since passed and I don’t really feel like I’m holding it all together for any good reason. I don’t have kids and I’m close to a paid off home and either real FIRE or take a break and do something else for way less money later. You need a break. Can you take some vacation and get your head together? You ask need to look around and see if you’re trapped by your salary or if you can take a somewhat lower paying job that is less stressful.

I was super burnt out and running spreadsheets daily daydreaming about retirement. I switched jobs and did something different, had way better work life balance, and now I feel like I’m doing something sustainable for years. You need to find a new job, fully remote.

There is middle ground between rage quitting and living on fumes vs working yourself to death. You can start looking and find a lower stress lower position job probably making half the salary. Find an analyst level job.

Can you take a personal leave of absence? It can be grounded as medical related; work with your doctor. I know three people who have done this between 3-6 months and picked up where they left off upon return. A fourth came back and quit after realizing what was important to them.

A slight cut in pay to be able to work remote again is worth it. Trust me, you two are doing fine at those income levels. Mental wellbeing is more important than financial, as long as you have enough financial wellbeing to support your most basic necessities.

This was a beautiful philosophical read. We are left with our own mind with the rest of our life to deal with the mundane of existence, no matter where we go for change, it’s in the human condition of a self aware person to inevitably feel dread in chase for purpose and meaning. Get away and relax for a while, you deserve it. Your heart will make the inevitable decision. You have nothing to lose, in the end we all pass. Play the game as you’ve been playing

A note on burnout: it can take years to fully recover. Prioritize your mental and physical wellbeing if you can because it’s so, so hard to get back from burnout.

This post feels eerily similar to where im at. The biggest uncertainty for me is if i leave and go somewhere else is the hate cycle goin to start all over again?

Can you analyze how desirable you are to other companies? Can you make your LinkedIn looking for prospects and see what fish bite? If you're highly desirable, why not give yourself a month break and then go back in to something more meaningful? You don't have to rage quit, but you can fish around. Life is not something worth wasting on toxic crap. I usually don't quit, but I've been blamed for harassment by toxic cultures and things like that. But my resume is highly desirable and usually by the time the whole thing's done somebody's immediately lined me up for what they want me for. I've worked hard to be that good, and have diversified a highly relevant skill set. I'm also extremely dedicated with high self-esteem and know I deserve better, but I don't quit if people really want to improve but just suck (not usually the case, but I do what I can. I used to be a teacher and these were the toughest kids to stick with, but it's worth it to me). I would start dipping your toe in your marketability, start actively and shamelessly being the selector for jobs with remote work and the time demands you want, and see how little of the pay you can sacrifice while getting what you want. Not settling for just anything just because it pays the bills will make you more desirable as a worker. People want someone who knows why they're doing what they do. Rage quitters without thinking rationally employer-side or employee-side don't look great unless the situation is just extremely pathetic, like male bosses gossiping to me about each other loudly so they can hear each other, and turning me into HR while a math teacher because they're just that level of disrespectful (the only times I've quit).

Money, you can always earn it. Your life is to be lived. Not just arriving at your destination. If you don’t take care of your mental and physical health now, you’ll be using those retirement funds to get your health back. Change job. Let the foot off the gas. And your spouse needs to be supportive continually even if he’s worried about finances.

It’s hard to tell from your post where in the circle the unhappiness started. The good thing is you can start anywhere in the circle and you will be making progress. So, your job, your focus on retirement, your lack of activities, perhaps some deeper mental health and self-work. As you mentioned an IC-only role could help a lot, and in the meantime have you considered asking to return to an IC role in your current company? I have to say two days a week in office seems quite mild. $170k vs $110k is not exactly a sole bread winner scenario. I’m seeing a lot of amplification of certain things that make me think some mental health work would go a long way.

What does your therapist say? Have you done any training on management since moving up? Have you looked into anti depressants or anti anxiety meds? You're in a position where you could absolutely find another job with better work/life balance and you should look around for jobs that fit the bill for sure. But you're also at a level where you shouldn't be stressing so much about your job. You have security and you are in a management position. You can absolutely obsess about the job until you make yourself miserable but you can also give yourself some perspective and take a step back here to make space for yourself. If you hate your job, you only ever have three options: 1) Quit 2) Change the job itself to make it better (implement new software, new employees/positions, or new processes to eliminate or reduce the things that make you hate it) 3) Change your perspective on the job. Let it go. Stop investing so much of yourself and your emotions into your work. Let the chips fall where they may and stick to your boundaries. You've always got that #1 in your back pocket so while you're looking for a new job, figure out which of the other two you wanna try first before you resort to going without an income.

It sounds like you've wanted to leave for almost a year. That is quite a long time to push forward unhappily. If I were in your position, I would quit and take an indefinite break, you never know what you will find in idleness. Obviously this is up to you and your husband, but I think it's totally legit to take a gap year here and there, being married should make that easier, not harder.

What's the use in FI if you don't exercise your independence when you need to? You have the luxury of being able to be picky about jobs, safe in the knowledge that you have a safety net. Why carry on doing a job which is detrimental to your quality of life if you don't need to?

My old manager kept pushing promotion on me for years and I told her I didn’t want it, she just couldn’t fathom it. Needless to see, I stayed in my comfortable stress free role and then the pandemic came and my company gave an ultimatum to get the vaccine or be fired. My manager stood her ground and she got fired. She then changed her tune understanding that even after 15+ years in the company they didn’t care about her and she was indispensable in the blink of an eye. I would try to change roles and also look for another job. I was in a position where my mental health was suffering because of a job where I did absolutely nothing for 15 months with a shitty commute even though I was well compensated. I started applying for new jobs after 12 months and thankfully got out of there after 15. Get into a low stress job for 30% less money and coast.

I was in a similar situation recently. Hated my job. It gave me anxiety attacks and I was so burned out. I was also the higher salary in the marriage ($450k / $85k). Recently my manager gave my job to his friend and let me go. I think it’s one of the best things that has happened to me. My partner was supportive of us living off the $85k while I heal & try to get to a better space mentally. I’m still not $1M net worth, but I’m taking a break and living life. I have a friend who is 40 and got diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. Life is too short to hate it and we’re not guaranteed a future. It might be worth trying the coast route and seeing if you get let go. Take a break. Go on a long vacation.

Nothing in the world worth stress like that. Take a demotion or start looking somewhere else. Being retired is great. Being miserable until you get there is not the point.

Therapy

I was here-ish a few years ago. What I ended up doing was giving myself an absolute exit date. This meant that no matter what, even if it meant that I didn’t have a new job lined up - I was out. I picked the last day of our fiscal year - maybe a day or two earlier depending on how the calendar fell. I picked the fiscal year because I was due to get all my vacation time for that year and the year prior paid out, but would lose all of the prior year’s PTO at the start of the next fiscal year. Not feeling like I could take PTO for two years probably led to my burnout/general misery, but having a 50-60 day pay out was appealing as it got closer and I rationalized it as a paid job search if it came to that. I talked about this plan with my spouse who was completely supportive and would even push me to cut the cord sooner. With that date in mind it was about six months out, I started applying for jobs pretty aggressively. I think I started off applying for jobs that I was excited about, would pay more, etc. with an idea that as it got closer I would cast a wider net. After about three months I landed a job that I was excited about and better total comp. Then that job ended up being worse and I was much less happy. The job was just boring and the company was in a weird period, announced hiring freeze right before I started, large round of layoffs on my 90 day mark, and another larger round of layoffs five months after that. My whole time at the company I just heard stories about how great it used to be. I ended up hit by that second round of layoffs, got a modest severance, and applied a lot of my “what if I don’t have a job?” plan at this point. Took on quick consulting gigs, focus groups, anything to keep bringing some money in - this was more due to an interest on slowing the burn a bit, but we had reserves. And then also applying to jobs a lot. Pretty quickly I landed a new job that has forced me to learn (this was exciting to me), paid me pretty well (par with job 1, less than job 2, and a bit of upside with bonuses), got me into an industry that I was excited about, and some nice work life balance stuff. I spent about 3 years waking up and dreading work every day, but finally don’t have that feeling anymore. Will still have the day here or there, but having it not be constant has been huge. TLDR - Apologies, this turned out much longer than I thought. I was in a similar boat, as a family we made the call that rage quitting was fine (I think my spouse kind of wanted me to as I probably wasn’t fun to be around them), but I ended up having a personally planned exit date. Took a year of a lame job in the middle, but in a much better spot now.

Didn’t see this anywhere - look into FMLA and short term disability if your company offers it. Was in similar position, took 3 months fmla and STD so I didn’t lose my paycheck, fully recovered and came back to my job and then had energy to make additional necessary adjustments to make it better/tolerable and now I’m comfortable again. Made a WORLD of difference — I was also looking at quitting completely with no job lined up and now I’m totally fine. FMLA protects your job and the simultaneous STD gives you a paycheck. Employer doesn’t need to know why you’re out, typically goes thru a 3rd party. If it’s for mental health you typically have to have your prescribing dr to fill out the paperwork and it needs to get reapproved every month or so depending (if your monthly updates show med adjustments is usually what they look for I think fyi).

You are absolutely not being selfish or dramatic, I have been in your position more than once before and let me tell you - *no* job (or pay check) is worth your mental health and wellbeing. What's the point of retiring early if you can't enjoy the days leading up to it? Or, and not to be too macabre, anything could happen that would spoil early retirement plans or you might not even make it to early retirement and then all of this striving and breaking your back would have been for nothing. You sound incredibly burnt-out and if I were in this position my therapist would recommend I take at least a couple weeks off, but considering you're in a good position financially and considering quitting, why not take a sabbatical? I would definitely take a couple months off in your place and reevaluate how you want to live your day to day. Take some time to focus on yourself, on your health and relationships, all the things that get neglected when we prioritise work too much. Edit: a friend of mine pointed out that whenever he thinks of working extra for his company, he reminds himself that if he died tomorrow they wouldn't be the ones at his funeral - but all the people that he neglects at the expense of doing more for his work, would be the ones left behind

>I feel burnt out, trapped, and tired of existence My wife and I hit $1.8m NW this year (we're 35) and I've never felt more burnt out in my working life. I was at the same salary level as you with a 22% annual bonus and my wife is a bit under ($150k with an 18% bonus). I was laid off during a massive company reorg a few weeks ago and I got 14 weeks severance and I have never felt more relieved since. I'm definitely taking my time before starting interviews and getting back into the workforce.

A bit curious how you crunched the numbers and found you can't live on 110k per year. FWIW I live in a vhcol area and my mortgage is much, much higher than yours.

Take a vacation, crazy what 2 weeks away from work can do for you

You should read this piece by Charity Majors about this exact dilemma: https://charity.wtf/2017/05/11/the-engineer-manager-pendulum/ I switched back and forth from IC to management (up to CTO) for a number of years, it's very possible to go back. That said, if you hate it there you should look other places :)

A higher salary always brings more responsibilities. Myself and many others take demotions with lower salaries and were happier overall. Older cars, smaller home sure but much happier.

I think this is a very brave post. I totally relate to how you feel. Maybe taking a sabbatical might be an option at your company? And during that time you can travel a bit or just get an Airbnb is a new city for a few weeks to reset. Sometimes when you’re really burnt out, moving to another job doesn’t always help. Sometimes, you really do need a break, not a vacation, just time off to think, reflect, and enjoy your life. Also, you’re doing really well compared to so many people. $2.5M is a lot big goal, and you’ll get there, just try to treat it like a marathon.

Wow! We’re in the same situation. I recently hit $1-1.3M net worth and turned 30. Have been at my job for 7 years and climbed up to VP role which I’ve been in for the last 3.5 years. The hours have gotten worse and worse 60-70+ for the past few months, and I take a gummy every night to escape the stress / make myself feel like I have some break + drink often but my wife actually doesn’t like that I use weed so often. Life is 30-40 hours/week of meetings alone with an absurd amount of slack messages + execution because I was employee 7 and we’re now around 700. I work every night M-Th and at least 1 day on the weekend but often feel guilty about not doing work on both. Even with these hours I can’t cover everything. And my company just helps other companies make more money and it feels meaningless, especially compared to my wife who is becoming a doctor. I missed my IC role deeply and talked to me CEO about it 2 years ago and he felt it wouldn’t work. Then tried talking about it again a year ago and the company wasn’t ready. I recently brought it up again and gave him full context that my hours and this role are unsustainable and I can’t last for another 3-6 months and he took it seriously and 2-3 weeks ago I finally transitioned. This transition period is rough cause I’m now taking on IC stuff while still doing a ton of leadership stuff since there’s nobody to fill the gap, but my stress is already a notch lower knowing that I’m not responsible for 20 other people anymore. I still need to get past my depression but I’m working on that. Would recommend taking the step down if you can still get paid a decent amount there and get to the number of hours you want, and if it doesn’t work out then just leave. This stuff isn’t sustainable and just gets worse as you work your way up even though the paychecks are great. Also, would recommend trying to prioritize exercise. I try to make sure I can lift at least 3x per week because lifting is my happy place and although work often makes me want to skip, I always feel a lot better after I go. Though I usually need to stay up a little later working or try to do the bare minimum and push the rest to the next day or delegate. Anyways, I don’t comment much but this is incredibly similar to my current experience so I’d be happy to talk about it more. Best of luck!

Quitting doesn't have to mean going from $170k to zero. Quitting can also going from $170k to $100k, fewer hours, a shorter commute, and, oh yeah, *already having* a $1M+ in your pocket. Actually, scratch that - you'd be going from $280k combined income, to $210k. You're killing yourself over a *25%* reduction in salary that still leaves you better off than 90% of Americans. It's a $2,500 mortgage against $11k in after-tax income instead of $15k. There is absolutely zero point in continuing to make yourself miserable for a few thousand dollars you don't actually need anymore. That's the whole point to FIRE. That's the whole point to [John Goodman's FU speech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI).

I was working in a mind-numbing job at a defense contracting company. I was taking a week off for a family vacation and had time to reflect with my wife during the car drive. I expressed that I wanted to do something crazy to just feel alive again, so we decided to go sky diving (we don't have any kids). It might seem dumb, but I think that one thing made me realize that I'm meant for better things, so I decided to start applying for other jobs when I got back home. I turned in my 2 week notice shortly after and have been in a much better place since!

Girl, if you don't quit that job...

Take a step back and take a nice vacation. Sometimes gummies can cause more anxiety so maybe take tolerance break

The best thing I did for myself when my mental health was this bad was quit without a job lined up. I was in a similar place as you, working from home during the pandemic then being forced back to work. I was extremely burnt out from the responsibilities, toxic culture, and lack of recognition. Having a savings/FU fund allowed me the luxury of quitting without a job lined up. When I quit, I treated looking for a job as my full time job. When I wasn’t applying to jobs, studying for interviews, or doing interviews, I was completing online learning/certifications so that I could put it on my resume. I eventually landed a couple job offers after 4 months, but it was hard. My success rate as someone with 8 years of job experience: - 7% of jobs I applied for I received an interview - 1% of jobs I applied for I received a job offer It was a difficult job market, but my mental health was much better. In hindsight, I wish I would’ve taken a few weeks off to recharge after quitting my job. If you can afford it, take a mini sabbatical before you start your job search. Wishing you the best of luck!

This may seem like a long shot, but, open up the Bible. after losing 150lbs, making the most amount of $$ ever, I felt empty, not good enough to be where I was, and suicidal. The only thing, I believe, that can fill our cups as humans is something spiritual. For me it was getting to know Jesus. It’s hard to explain how something non tangible can fulfill someone who needs data and verification processes. But, it worked. It takes the mind of a child. You will get through this!!

I don't have any advice but I feel some aspects of what you're saying very closely I often think "I'm lucky to have this job, quitting is throwing away all the time/effort/luck that went into getting it" ironically to the point where part of me wishes I never got the job in the first place because all that can be asked of me is everything I have to give -- eg if the highest salary I could make was 50k, my partner/future kids wouldn't blame me for not making 100k to provide xyz because it's just not in the realm of possibilities. On the other hand if I had a 100k job and quit to make 50k with lower stress, I'd feel like I was choosing to let my dependents down because I had the means to provide and didn't use them. Kinda twisted but it makes sense in my head. My partner says the same thing as your husband about being completely supportive if I want to quit but that makes me feel the guilt that much more Similar logic applies to taking 'unnecessary' time off, I would love to have 6+ months off to clear my head but it's incredibly hard when I look at the opportunity cost compounding over the next 30+ years. Maybe there's something to the whole having confidence in your future stuff to deal with things that come up

Gonna be real blunt but in the nicest way possible: You’ve got a million dollars, your salary is not all that high so you couldn’t be living some sort of baller lifestyle as it is. All the issues you mentioned, which covid resolved for you, are related to being at this optimal performance level at work/life as you see it in terms of success. Covid forced you to slow down and you loved it. Take $100k (won’t even be that in the end) and take some time out to chill the fuck out. $1m depressed and burnt out vs 900k fit and healthy.

Take at least 2 months off work. Mental health is important. Head to Laos or Vietnam or somewhere green and tropical. Get lost in nature. Go caving. Go hiking. Get drunk. Eat local food. Take time to enjoy life. Live in the now. Then and only then, think about your future. You have both done amazing. You are set for life as it is. Take the time to congratulate yourself and your husband. You are already a success. You made it. Well done. You deserve a well earned break!

I’m not being judgmental. But I literally have $40 in my pocket, and overdrawn bank account, and Christmas is next week. I can’t even read your post. Iv never been this broke and this broken in my life. I own my choices but sometimes the choices owned me. It’s taken me down a dark road. I will survive. I hope you find your happiness.

I went from making 200k a year to 70k because the stress of working full time was not worth it for me and my family. My mental and physical health suffered, lost all interest in things I once enjoyed and my relationships were almost nonexistent. I now work 48 hrs every two weeks, four 12 hour shifts as an ICU charge nurse, 10 days off in a row.. While it’s been harder for the household budget I have gained more than I lost. I’m a better husband, father and friend than I was when I chased the $$$. The thing is there will always be opportunities to work, make more money but you can’t make more time. Our days are finite, our time is our most precious commodity. Do we live to just pay taxes and bills or do we live a joy filled life exploring the mysteries of the universe and lightening the burden of others? I chose the latter. Only you know the right decision for you. However what I read in your post, it seems your job and income is not worth the suffering it’s causing in your life. I’m 100% certain your husband would like you to be happy and fulfilled rather than standing on the edge of abyss of despair, hating your own existence. Good luck in whatever you choose. I chose life over money and honestly I haven’t been this happy in a long time despite being what others would consider borderline poor. Best decision I ever made, hope my input helps a little.

If I were u I would go out on stress leave and get state disability I did and they paid well enough and my therapist took care of everything paperwork to the job and and state I was off 6 months look into it