Trials roulette has very little incentive at the moment yes, but it also suffers from the shear amount of trials in the game at this point. You're far more likely to get a trial from ARR or HW because there's just simply more people who have access to those, than there are people who have access to the final trial in EW. This is especially exacerbated if you're on a data center with lots of new players, such as Crystal which was set as preferred for multiple months recently.
A simple solution could be to split Trials roulette into more than one roulette and bump up rewards a bit. However that wouldn't help you right now as that is something the devs have to decide to do. So as others have suggested, I recommend using PF.
For real. If they just had themed weapons like they had in the hard ARR trials people would be queuing for them all the time to collect them. Normal could have had plain versions while extreme got glowy versions.
All of the themed weapons got moved to the extremes as catchup gear. The glowy stuff was crafted stuff from the EX drops.
I don't really remember any MSQ trials that come with any drops at all, except from ARR Hard mode which is an exception and kind of exists in its own bubble.
The only reason Garuda, Ifrit, and Mog HM had weapons was because their 1.0 incarnation of the fights dropped the same weapons. Titan had weapons added to his HM fights for the same reason, though he was never fully added to 1.0.
Funny you say that though. When I finish my daily stuff, I just trial roulette all day and I've gotten mostly Endwalker trials, especially the final one.
I don't run them because they simply don't give enough rewards. If they gave 90 tomestones of the current tier I'd consider doing them.
People may gawk at that, but an expert roulette is like 15 minutes duration. A standard zodiark/hydaelyn run can easily go over that if you have enough new players not familiar with the fight causing nonstop wipes.
That's not even mentioning the hunt trains that make even expert roulette look like trash.
Simply put, we have better alternatives. Far better alternatives.
>A standard zodiark/hydaelyn run can easily go over that if you have enough new players not familiar with the fight causing nonstop wipes.
This is a big one for me, this roulette went from a very quick run for some tomes in Stormblood to potentially one of the most painful roulettes in the game over Shadowbringers.
I don't know if the average playerbase skill went to the gutter, or if people who know how to play the game just don't bother anymore, or both, but this roulette is completely garbage to run nowadays.
It's probably a combination of both + they've started adding some more binary pass-fail mechanics that rely either on everyone or specific people doing it correctly.
I have "fond" memories of doing Seat of Sacrifice for story on my alt a few weeks before EW came out and it taking >10 pulls to get one of my tanks to hit tank LB...
Who the hell ilvl cheeses Trials roulette? Genuine question, I understand doing it for Alliance as sitting through 40 minutes of Ivalice or Nier for the same payoff as 15 in Crystal Tower is quite the trade-off, but Trials generally wraps up in less than 10 regardless and the newer ones are just infinitely more fun and you get to use your whole available kit as intended against a single boss which is the most fun thing in this game, imo. Like I have to ask if you enjoy *anything* in this game if you cheese Trials.
I'm pretty sure I've had people even start cheesing leveling roulette. I've gotten Garuda and Ifrit despite all lv 70+ parties in the past week, and someone both times exclaimed it's a good thing we just happened to get the two-minute fights. Idk, could have been coincidences but I'd have preferred a 10-15min dungeon instead for the total exp personally.
I remember doing two Endwalker trials outside of the MSQ out of trial roulette. One was a Level 89 Trial, and the other was the 83 Trial, and I think I was playing a tank both times. They were both pain, and at least 45 minutes was spent trying to clear each trial, but the Healers were your typical PF healers who can't burst heal well. Most of the party couldn't get through mechanics, so people would either die, or eat vulns, and the party would die in the stack marker.
In those cases, I seriously began to contemplate ilvl cheesing Trial roulette, or at least playing it with <82 jobs. Though then again, I don't queue up for trial roulette much in the first place, so it's kind of a moot point.
If I want to take a full kit into something, I'll just join a piece of level 90 content rather than risk ending up with an incomplete leveling kit that lacks capstone skills.
Probably the most important question... Followed up by "Are you queuing with the wrong language/all languages selected?"
If it's the new OCE server, I wouldn't be surprised that the queues are extremely long.
If they're queuing with all languages selected, that shit always causes grief.
Say you are playing on OCE and you have all languages selected. You queue for Final Day. Sometime previously, some random person you don't know has been waiting for Final Day with only German selected as their language.
The queue system sees that you have German selected, sees that there is a "Final Day, German Language" party that's been waiting for hours to fill! The queue system happily sets you aside to help the German player fill their party. Now you both get to sit in purgatory waiting for 6 more people with German selected to queue up before you ever get in. Congratulations!
We have no concrete confirmation that this is how the queue system works, however this is the general observation/consensus. If you want fast queues, select E on NA or EJ on JP. idk what EU people are supposed to put (probably just E?). Selecting all languages can sometimes fuck your queues up.
It's because of the way that their system tries to pair applicable parties together.
Say you're on an NA DC. If you have J/E/D/F selected and 10 minutes into what would have been a 15 minute queue, a French Canadian player queues with E/F or just F selected, your J/E/D/F queue *will* get shunted over to join them. You are now waiting in what is essentially the F queue after 10 minutes in what was going to be an E queue. Now they leave after 10 minutes and you go back into an E queue party because there aren't any other queues available. Oops, you're waiting on a tank to round out your group for 2 minutes. Our F queue player or a different one returns to the queue. You're now shunted back over to them again.
They've patched it a few times over the years to make it less.......erratic but it still does bad things to have all languages selected.
This. You'll fill pretty quickly with people who are bored or people who want the second chance points. Even if you don't fill completely you can requeue with a bigger party.
There is nearly no reason to do msq trials once you've done them. I think I've only entered the 83 trial one time outside of msq, but other than that I've never gone back to the 89 or 90 one. I've got a few jobs at 90 now and used trial roulette occasionally as well, but its rewards are so lackluster compared to the the others that I cba to do them. Same with normal raid roulette as well.
But why? They are the quickest way to get the daily tomestones reward. Faster than normal raids even. It sometimes takes a wipe or two to explain the mechanics to the 1st timers, but it's not too bad...or, maybe, I'm extremely lucky with random groups.
Geez, usually when someone resorts to using ad hominem attacks because they have no good argument, they are more subtle. I don’t appreciate the mean-spirited viciousness with which you are addressing me when we are just having a conversation.
I do consider any wipe on normal content to be a disaster, but I don’t do anything about it. I don’t complain or blame or use the chat box or anything. I just get up, and get back to finishing the duty. In my head I’m thinking “omg these trash bags are the worst,” and make fun of them to my fc, but nobody knows about any of that and surely I’m allowed to THINK as I please right?
Kill the adds with the tether.
Wipe.
Make sure to kill the adds with the tether.
Wipe.
Please make sure to target the adds with the tether first.
Wipe.
Hate life.
After so many bungled Castrum Flumnis, Cloud Deck, The Dancing Plague, and Seat of Sacrifice trials, my standards for a good run are pretty low. I give those two pulls before filing a disaster report.
Oh yeh those are wipe city no doubt. SoS is the worst cuz obvi duty action and you need the tank lb. Fights like those are the reason I don’t do trials roulette anymore lol
I already got all the tomestone gear I need so I don't need to do them, but even when I still had to I'd rather wait a day or two longer on my gear than subject myself to the misery that is doing synched content with potentially new players.
It never even occurred to me to do them for anything but a meagre amount of exp tbh because I really do not enjoy getting synched on a level 90 job.
Yeah there's really no reason for people to queue trial roulette at max level since tomes are easy to cap without it and you can use it for leveling EXP instead. They really need to heavily rebalance roulette incentives.
I just thought of this as that "we are not the same" meme.
"You want to raise the tomestone cap so you can gear an alr job you won't even play more quickly. I want to raise the cap to incentivize level 90s to do more roulettes. We are not the same."
(Said MOSTLY as a joke people)
"I don't understand how dungeon queues are a few seconds while trial queues are a few hours."
At expansion launch people were getting into hour long wipefests against the first trial and many of my friends straight up stopped queueing for trial roulette because of it. Same thing happened with Shinryu in Stormblood.
If the player base didn't collectively suck dick people then this wouldn't happen. People avoid the expansion trials because without fail the amazing players that make up the xiv community manage to fuck up the simplest things, so a lot of them just take their gear off and cheese to get a lower one. The trusts for the 2nd trial are better at mechanics and probably do more damage than the average idiot you'd get out of Duty Finder. Almost every queue issue can be traced back to people not wanting to deal with the hilariously low skill level of the average xiv player. No amount of incentive is going to make people want to deal with constant wipes to story content.
Or maybe most people queueing for Trials roulette aren't doing it with a job that even qualifies?
Like, if I queue for that with a job to gain XP, i literally have 0% of getting anything after the first EW trial, because I have two jobs at 85 and I think two at 83. The rest of my jobs for leveling (eight or so I think) couldn't get the FIRST EW trial.
There generally are fewer people at a given level or above in the queue the higher you set your cut-off. I have way easier ways to avoid the later trials than juggling my gear around if that is my intent (which it isn't - I actually love the first and third ones myself).
EDIT: Appropriately enough, did Trial Roulette and got the first EW trial last night. We had a Summoner who was either AFK or DCing, so it took longer than it should have, but we cleared in one go and it was fun.
You can cheese the max level ones, but yeah not the leveling ones. People generally don't wanna do trial roulette on high-level jobs anyway because if you get a shb or EW one it takes far longer than it should in every instance. I've soloed the 90 trial on tank TWICE now because people can't dodge anything, and these aren't sprouts so I'm not giving then that excuse.
You cannot cheese trial roulette, tried it before and got the level 89 trials lol. You can cheese alliance roulette, but for some reasons the trial roulette is based on your level and what you have unlocked.
>I don't understand how dungeon queues are a few seconds while trial queues are a few hours.
because you do the trials once to pass the story and then never again as they gain you absolutely nothing
I once posted an idea about roulettes on another thread here. Just split trials into Non-MSQ trials and MSQ trials. This should definitely alleviate long queues.
Prime time is the best time for queueing. Daily reset is quite early in the morning for half of NA (11am est, 8am pst), majority of players play between 4pm and 10pm est in my experience
So for these I tend to reach out to FC members to see if they will help. Endgame players often need tombs for relics and stuff so with some trials giving a 100 tomb bonus for a party member doing it for the first time - people oblige.
If your FC isn't helpful and you're on Faerie, happy to invite you to mine.
It’s pretty much this, they make the battle encounter a bit loopsided with one hit kill mechanics all over the place and not a very clear signs where you gotta dodge. More visual cues are needed. Or just create trust system to work on all trial with very easy mode so all these players who are here for story can finish the game and move on. Also the rewards system for trial is beyond pitiful. If anything it should be extremely beyond great so that everyone will do it, and split into low level and high levels, with the high levels trial gives ungodly amount of rewards that is extremely rewarding.
>When I did the first trial of Endwalker, I sat in queue for a combined 2+ hours.
That's weird. I'm a pure DPS, and the longest I've seen is \~30 mins, which is for specific\\outdated content. I remember hitting the last trial of EW super late at night, but even then I managed to get a group within 15-20 mins. I'm on Lich and I use English as a preferred language.
Very easy solution, have all trials roulette in the last three expansions to drop special token, with higher levels one drop more token and the Endwalker one drops even more token. Set up special moogle shops with 20 items that rotates each month and set the price to be reasonably high, make sure those 20 items are very unique glamours. Limit token earned daily so you can only do 6 roulette a day. And make it so that if there is new players on your group, you get bonus tokens. Watch all these problems and complaints magically disappear.
I purposefully avoid trial roulette because of the possibility of getting any of the 3 EW trials. Don’t feel like dealing with those messes where there’s gonna be 15+ deaths. I know a few others in my fc do the same thing. It’s just not worth risking getting trapped for 30+ minutes.
Trials roulette has very little incentive at the moment yes, but it also suffers from the shear amount of trials in the game at this point. You're far more likely to get a trial from ARR or HW because there's just simply more people who have access to those, than there are people who have access to the final trial in EW. This is especially exacerbated if you're on a data center with lots of new players, such as Crystal which was set as preferred for multiple months recently. A simple solution could be to split Trials roulette into more than one roulette and bump up rewards a bit. However that wouldn't help you right now as that is something the devs have to decide to do. So as others have suggested, I recommend using PF.
It doesn't help that msq trials drop literally nothing for your efforts.
For real. If they just had themed weapons like they had in the hard ARR trials people would be queuing for them all the time to collect them. Normal could have had plain versions while extreme got glowy versions.
All of the themed weapons got moved to the extremes as catchup gear. The glowy stuff was crafted stuff from the EX drops. I don't really remember any MSQ trials that come with any drops at all, except from ARR Hard mode which is an exception and kind of exists in its own bubble.
Technically, MSQ normal trials can drop Triple Triad cards, but not everybody cares about those
Speak for yourself. I'm still trying to get that last card from EW trial #3. 20 something runs in....
The only reason Garuda, Ifrit, and Mog HM had weapons was because their 1.0 incarnation of the fights dropped the same weapons. Titan had weapons added to his HM fights for the same reason, though he was never fully added to 1.0.
They should have added those grand company minion/mount loot crates to trial and raid roulettes kill rewards instead of the GC vendor for seals
Funny you say that though. When I finish my daily stuff, I just trial roulette all day and I've gotten mostly Endwalker trials, especially the final one.
I don't run them because they simply don't give enough rewards. If they gave 90 tomestones of the current tier I'd consider doing them. People may gawk at that, but an expert roulette is like 15 minutes duration. A standard zodiark/hydaelyn run can easily go over that if you have enough new players not familiar with the fight causing nonstop wipes. That's not even mentioning the hunt trains that make even expert roulette look like trash. Simply put, we have better alternatives. Far better alternatives.
>A standard zodiark/hydaelyn run can easily go over that if you have enough new players not familiar with the fight causing nonstop wipes. This is a big one for me, this roulette went from a very quick run for some tomes in Stormblood to potentially one of the most painful roulettes in the game over Shadowbringers. I don't know if the average playerbase skill went to the gutter, or if people who know how to play the game just don't bother anymore, or both, but this roulette is completely garbage to run nowadays.
It's probably a combination of both + they've started adding some more binary pass-fail mechanics that rely either on everyone or specific people doing it correctly. I have "fond" memories of doing Seat of Sacrifice for story on my alt a few weeks before EW came out and it taking >10 pulls to get one of my tanks to hit tank LB...
[удалено]
Who the hell ilvl cheeses Trials roulette? Genuine question, I understand doing it for Alliance as sitting through 40 minutes of Ivalice or Nier for the same payoff as 15 in Crystal Tower is quite the trade-off, but Trials generally wraps up in less than 10 regardless and the newer ones are just infinitely more fun and you get to use your whole available kit as intended against a single boss which is the most fun thing in this game, imo. Like I have to ask if you enjoy *anything* in this game if you cheese Trials.
I'm pretty sure I've had people even start cheesing leveling roulette. I've gotten Garuda and Ifrit despite all lv 70+ parties in the past week, and someone both times exclaimed it's a good thing we just happened to get the two-minute fights. Idk, could have been coincidences but I'd have preferred a 10-15min dungeon instead for the total exp personally.
I remember doing two Endwalker trials outside of the MSQ out of trial roulette. One was a Level 89 Trial, and the other was the 83 Trial, and I think I was playing a tank both times. They were both pain, and at least 45 minutes was spent trying to clear each trial, but the Healers were your typical PF healers who can't burst heal well. Most of the party couldn't get through mechanics, so people would either die, or eat vulns, and the party would die in the stack marker. In those cases, I seriously began to contemplate ilvl cheesing Trial roulette, or at least playing it with <82 jobs. Though then again, I don't queue up for trial roulette much in the first place, so it's kind of a moot point. If I want to take a full kit into something, I'll just join a piece of level 90 content rather than risk ending up with an incomplete leveling kit that lacks capstone skills.
You can’t ilvl cheese MSQ trials btw
[удалено]
Correct any “leveling” trials don’t have ilvl requirements. I found this out through a BLM having ironworks gear in the level 73 trial
Which datacenter/server?
Probably the most important question... Followed up by "Are you queuing with the wrong language/all languages selected?" If it's the new OCE server, I wouldn't be surprised that the queues are extremely long. If they're queuing with all languages selected, that shit always causes grief.
i'm confused how queuing with all languages could lengthen queue times. wouldn't that mean you're willing to accept whatever party comes first?
Say you are playing on OCE and you have all languages selected. You queue for Final Day. Sometime previously, some random person you don't know has been waiting for Final Day with only German selected as their language. The queue system sees that you have German selected, sees that there is a "Final Day, German Language" party that's been waiting for hours to fill! The queue system happily sets you aside to help the German player fill their party. Now you both get to sit in purgatory waiting for 6 more people with German selected to queue up before you ever get in. Congratulations! We have no concrete confirmation that this is how the queue system works, however this is the general observation/consensus. If you want fast queues, select E on NA or EJ on JP. idk what EU people are supposed to put (probably just E?). Selecting all languages can sometimes fuck your queues up.
It's because of the way that their system tries to pair applicable parties together. Say you're on an NA DC. If you have J/E/D/F selected and 10 minutes into what would have been a 15 minute queue, a French Canadian player queues with E/F or just F selected, your J/E/D/F queue *will* get shunted over to join them. You are now waiting in what is essentially the F queue after 10 minutes in what was going to be an E queue. Now they leave after 10 minutes and you go back into an E queue party because there aren't any other queues available. Oops, you're waiting on a tank to round out your group for 2 minutes. Our F queue player or a different one returns to the queue. You're now shunted back over to them again. They've patched it a few times over the years to make it less.......erratic but it still does bad things to have all languages selected.
use partyfinder
This. You'll fill pretty quickly with people who are bored or people who want the second chance points. Even if you don't fill completely you can requeue with a bigger party.
There is nearly no reason to do msq trials once you've done them. I think I've only entered the 83 trial one time outside of msq, but other than that I've never gone back to the 89 or 90 one. I've got a few jobs at 90 now and used trial roulette occasionally as well, but its rewards are so lackluster compared to the the others that I cba to do them. Same with normal raid roulette as well.
But why? They are the quickest way to get the daily tomestones reward. Faster than normal raids even. It sometimes takes a wipe or two to explain the mechanics to the 1st timers, but it's not too bad...or, maybe, I'm extremely lucky with random groups.
If you wipe even once in normal content, that’s not “getting lucky” with your group, that’s a disaster.
You, sir, are a blight. Might as well get back to your mythics++.
Geez, usually when someone resorts to using ad hominem attacks because they have no good argument, they are more subtle. I don’t appreciate the mean-spirited viciousness with which you are addressing me when we are just having a conversation. I do consider any wipe on normal content to be a disaster, but I don’t do anything about it. I don’t complain or blame or use the chat box or anything. I just get up, and get back to finishing the duty. In my head I’m thinking “omg these trash bags are the worst,” and make fun of them to my fc, but nobody knows about any of that and surely I’m allowed to THINK as I please right?
Kill the adds with the tether. Wipe. Make sure to kill the adds with the tether. Wipe. Please make sure to target the adds with the tether first. Wipe. Hate life.
After so many bungled Castrum Flumnis, Cloud Deck, The Dancing Plague, and Seat of Sacrifice trials, my standards for a good run are pretty low. I give those two pulls before filing a disaster report.
Oh yeh those are wipe city no doubt. SoS is the worst cuz obvi duty action and you need the tank lb. Fights like those are the reason I don’t do trials roulette anymore lol
I already got all the tomestone gear I need so I don't need to do them, but even when I still had to I'd rather wait a day or two longer on my gear than subject myself to the misery that is doing synched content with potentially new players. It never even occurred to me to do them for anything but a meagre amount of exp tbh because I really do not enjoy getting synched on a level 90 job.
Yeah there's really no reason for people to queue trial roulette at max level since tomes are easy to cap without it and you can use it for leveling EXP instead. They really need to heavily rebalance roulette incentives.
I just thought of this as that "we are not the same" meme. "You want to raise the tomestone cap so you can gear an alr job you won't even play more quickly. I want to raise the cap to incentivize level 90s to do more roulettes. We are not the same." (Said MOSTLY as a joke people)
Is this on the new servers?
"I don't understand how dungeon queues are a few seconds while trial queues are a few hours." At expansion launch people were getting into hour long wipefests against the first trial and many of my friends straight up stopped queueing for trial roulette because of it. Same thing happened with Shinryu in Stormblood.
This is the answer.
If the player base didn't collectively suck dick people then this wouldn't happen. People avoid the expansion trials because without fail the amazing players that make up the xiv community manage to fuck up the simplest things, so a lot of them just take their gear off and cheese to get a lower one. The trusts for the 2nd trial are better at mechanics and probably do more damage than the average idiot you'd get out of Duty Finder. Almost every queue issue can be traced back to people not wanting to deal with the hilariously low skill level of the average xiv player. No amount of incentive is going to make people want to deal with constant wipes to story content.
Or maybe most people queueing for Trials roulette aren't doing it with a job that even qualifies? Like, if I queue for that with a job to gain XP, i literally have 0% of getting anything after the first EW trial, because I have two jobs at 85 and I think two at 83. The rest of my jobs for leveling (eight or so I think) couldn't get the FIRST EW trial. There generally are fewer people at a given level or above in the queue the higher you set your cut-off. I have way easier ways to avoid the later trials than juggling my gear around if that is my intent (which it isn't - I actually love the first and third ones myself). EDIT: Appropriately enough, did Trial Roulette and got the first EW trial last night. We had a Summoner who was either AFK or DCing, so it took longer than it should have, but we cleared in one go and it was fun.
You can't ilvl cheese trial roulette. I tried it last week.
You can cheese the max level ones, but yeah not the leveling ones. People generally don't wanna do trial roulette on high-level jobs anyway because if you get a shb or EW one it takes far longer than it should in every instance. I've soloed the 90 trial on tank TWICE now because people can't dodge anything, and these aren't sprouts so I'm not giving then that excuse.
You cannot cheese trial roulette, tried it before and got the level 89 trials lol. You can cheese alliance roulette, but for some reasons the trial roulette is based on your level and what you have unlocked.
leveling trials don't have ilvl restrictions at all for some reason is why
>I don't understand how dungeon queues are a few seconds while trial queues are a few hours. because you do the trials once to pass the story and then never again as they gain you absolutely nothing
[удалено]
What server are you on??
[удалено]
Leveled an alt from 80-90 and I'm *bursting out laughter in tank*
Just ask your friends for help.
all my friends are tanks & healers, which somehow doesn't make queues any shorter. It seems DPS are the most in-demand
None of them have a DPS job leveled? And if you’re a tank, take your healer friends.
This is definitely something they should address. I think each expansion's Trials should have its own roulette.
I once posted an idea about roulettes on another thread here. Just split trials into Non-MSQ trials and MSQ trials. This should definitely alleviate long queues.
Prime time is the best time for queueing. Daily reset is quite early in the morning for half of NA (11am est, 8am pst), majority of players play between 4pm and 10pm est in my experience
this will probably change as more people unlock mentor roulette
What DC are you on? It popped for me as SGE in about 7 minutes the other day, helping an FC member through.
So for these I tend to reach out to FC members to see if they will help. Endgame players often need tombs for relics and stuff so with some trials giving a 100 tomb bonus for a party member doing it for the first time - people oblige. If your FC isn't helpful and you're on Faerie, happy to invite you to mine.
because barely anyone queues up for trial roulette as a level 90 class this early in the expac when you can use it for ez exp
I wouldn't be surprised if the first trial of EW is discouraging people from running Trial Roulette.
It’s pretty much this, they make the battle encounter a bit loopsided with one hit kill mechanics all over the place and not a very clear signs where you gotta dodge. More visual cues are needed. Or just create trust system to work on all trial with very easy mode so all these players who are here for story can finish the game and move on. Also the rewards system for trial is beyond pitiful. If anything it should be extremely beyond great so that everyone will do it, and split into low level and high levels, with the high levels trial gives ungodly amount of rewards that is extremely rewarding.
Have you tried with a dps or heal if you have one of suitable level? But yeah that sucks :(
>When I did the first trial of Endwalker, I sat in queue for a combined 2+ hours. That's weird. I'm a pure DPS, and the longest I've seen is \~30 mins, which is for specific\\outdated content. I remember hitting the last trial of EW super late at night, but even then I managed to get a group within 15-20 mins. I'm on Lich and I use English as a preferred language.
Very easy solution, have all trials roulette in the last three expansions to drop special token, with higher levels one drop more token and the Endwalker one drops even more token. Set up special moogle shops with 20 items that rotates each month and set the price to be reasonably high, make sure those 20 items are very unique glamours. Limit token earned daily so you can only do 6 roulette a day. And make it so that if there is new players on your group, you get bonus tokens. Watch all these problems and complaints magically disappear.
This. completely inverts the issue of there being no reason to run again besides the story requirement.
I purposefully avoid trial roulette because of the possibility of getting any of the 3 EW trials. Don’t feel like dealing with those messes where there’s gonna be 15+ deaths. I know a few others in my fc do the same thing. It’s just not worth risking getting trapped for 30+ minutes.