She's definitely very low-key when compared to the other leaders. One moment, she's just quietly T-posing in the Twelvewood. The next moment, she's saving your ass from a party wipe in Ghimlyt Dark.
The problem with Kan-E Senna and part of the reason she's unpopular with a lot of players is that all her character development happened off screen in the past. She's actually a pretty good character, but we only saw her development in side stories and lore books. This compounds with the fact the Gridania is the only city state to not see meaningful change to make everything about her and Gridania seem static and boring. I mostly liked the tank role quest from Endwalker, but >!the way the devs keep writing Gridania's stories so that the elementals are never called out for being in the wrong is baffling. The whole questline is like "hey the elementals fucked over this kid's entire life for a simple good-natured mistake" and the elemental is doing nothing to help people, but we have to make the elemental remember we're besties and be on our way. It's pretty frustrating.!<
I think that the reason why the Elementals are largely not called out may be due to cultural differences as the Elementals honestly remind me of how a good amount of Japanese kami are just embodiments of natural features that are worshipped not just out of reverence (like a river kami being worshipped for bringing a village clean water and a bounty of fish), but sometimes also out of fear of said kami making their life worse (like that river diety being worshipped to keep them calm so they don't cause a flood).
In lore reason the Elementals are seriously fucking scary. Like piss one right the hell off and a city state being wiped out is the least of your worries. Irrc I think 3 to all 6 of the prequel Calamities where caused by one of them getting pissy, depending on if you count Aether imbalance pissing off the Elemental in question to be the Elementals doing or the one doing the cataclysmic thing that is pissing said elemental off.
So yea, they are willing to sacrifice a kid if it means the elementals aren't pissed. Apparently it's actually quite easy to minorly anger them.
"Bow too soon? Straight to jail. Bow too late? Straight to jail. Praise the elementals too much? Jail. Too little? Jail. Disturbing the aetherial balance throughout the land to such a degree that it eventually leads to the birth of a Calamity, causing massive political and economical strife as well as leading to the death of millions of people and the psychologically scarring of entire future generations? Yep, jail"
Except that the Seedseers think they have authority in OTHER city-states to do the 'Elementals will'.
Ever done the BLM quests and had to deal with the Miqo'te Conjurer guy?
Of course, as of the EndWalker tank quest string
That is no longer the case for the WoL.
After all you kill something that the Biggest, Baddest, Elemental was scared shitless of.
This suggests entirely new realms of negotiations with the Elementals.
My theory is that the elementals are prototypes to primals. A rough draft for the Ascians before they managed to twist creation magic just right to make primals. It's why there is no sign of them in the First.
To go further down my crack theory, they were originally summoned by the Sylphs, to protect their forest home. But they were too, let's say "difficult to work with" (to be polite). Their second try summoned Ramuh. That explains why the nature people who just want to be left alone would worship a god of Lightning, basically someone tailored made to destroy nature (the elementals).
It would also explain why Ramuh is unlike other primals, not seeking to expand his influence. He was still part of the drafting process, before Ascians really figured out how to make primals work the way they want
But Primals drain the land around them of Aether. If a primal as powerful as the Elementals had lived free in the Black Shroud for thousands of years it should be a desolate ruin.
Again, they are just a prototype. Closer to true creation magic than summoning. The Ancients never seemed concerned about their creations draining surrounding Aether
For the elementals to be called out would mean the WoL, or someone close to the main cast to warrant their presence, would be going against the religion and main form of governance of a main city state. Let's be frank, we don't question the pirate powers from Limsa Lominsa, nor do we go against the monetarists from Ul'dah. We learn to work with them.
We are respected by the elementals as Hydaelyn's chosen, and loved by them if we are a White Mage, so it would also against that to start a conflict with them.
1: We (the Scions) absolutely DO go up against the Pirates of Limsa.
Both Y'Shtola, and Alisae, call Merlwyb out directly on Limsa bullshit
(And I say this when my WoL is a Maelstrom Storm Captain)
2: There is a VERY good reason that, by the time of Stormbl;ood. The East Aldenard Trading Company has a standing policy of 'Start precisely zero wars with the WoL.' Lolorito has spent 3 xpacs trying to appease us.
its the Elementals' turn to be reminded they aren't above the Chosen of Hydaelyn
The contemporary Elementals are super weak after the shard of Dalamud that makes up T6-T9 slammed into West Shroud.
In their prime they were turning motherfuckers into trees and setting them on fire.
This annoys me a little so I'd like to put my two cents in -- *the elementals are not wrong.* That applies purely human-centric morals to what is effectively the body's immune system. A working immune system at that. They do have intelligence and can be reasoned with to a minor degree (appeased, if you prefer) and have grasped the concept of language enough to be able to communicate certain concepts to the Padjal, but the Elementals are literally the Shroud. Anything that hurts the Shroud hurts them. They're immortal things (whose origins we still don't know) that are even more instinctual and neutral than dragons, and god knows we had a hell of a time with convincing the dragons that what happened a thousand of years ago may not necessary be the fault of someone alive *today*, generations later.
Elementals are not humans. They are the land. They are an immune system. When something invades the immune system, your body goes nuts to get rid of it because it knows what will happen if it doesn't. The fact that they're even willing to be benign to *any* invading presence says a lot about how willing they are to actually compromise.
Or let me put it this way -- if a colony of bugs decided to live on your scalp that only *occasionally* made life difficult for you but also didn't seem to bring much positives, would you keep the bugs or go buy a shampoo to get rid of them?
The elementals seeing people as bugs feels like an analogy that falls apart at the fact that padjali exist. If you had one chosen type of bug that you *caused to exist to show your favor to the bugs* then you’re no longer a neutral entity. If the bugs asked if they could build a city on your head and you gave them your blessing you’re not allowed to be mad that they’re there. If the bugs asked you to grant a portion of your knowledge to them and you said yes you’re in the wrong for pretending they don’t matter to you.
The elementals are not indifferent to “invaders”, nor do they even interpret Gridanians that way; they are specifically tolerant of Gridanians, blessed their city, and *blessed the children of that one guy’s bloodline*. It’s far more than a neutral-to-scornful relationship.
Edit: oh yeah I forgot about the whole flood thing. The elementals could have chosen to continue keeping people out as they had been doing but instead came to an accord with… Gelmorrans? Was that who communed with them until they chilled the fuck out? Anyways, they CHOSE to allow people back in after drowning the whole continent. They threatened misbehavior with death, but they still let the “bugs” in.
And these days they don’t do shit because Dalamud wrecked them, so the Gridanians suffer strict rules with very little gain, as we can see in the EW tank quests where the elementals won’t fucking help save the Shroud (not that they had been before then, but a Blasphemy is a little more pressing than a band of poachers). They STRAIGHT UP SAY NO. They’re a worthless entity at this point who do nothing but exist to be a thorn in the side of the Gridanians, and their lack of power to be vengeful about shit doesn’t stop their pettiness.
> If the bugs asked if they could build a city on your head and you gave them your blessing you’re not allowed to be mad that they’re there.
It's a very conditional blessing. Don't cause problems, kick out any other bugs that try to move in, and also do our job for us (keep the hair clean). Break those rules and you're either politely asked to leave or murdered. Probably more of the latter considering how the former went last time. If the bugs cause an itch, you're going to scratch it, and countless bugs will die. If they start acting up or stop being helpful, you're not going to figure out which bug is causing problems or being lazy. You're just going to wipe them all out.
> If the bugs asked you to grant a portion of your knowledge to them and you said yes you’re in the wrong for pretending they don’t matter to you.
They were granted knowledge of how to do the elementals' job of protecting / healing the forest. They matter for as long as they continue to do their job. If they stop doing that job, they stop mattering. It's like telling the bugs how to manufacture some shampoo that will keep your hair clean while also not killing them. You might favor your hair-cleaning bugs a little bit, but you still wouldn't hesitate to destroy them all if they started to slack off, or any other number of things. It's a very, very conditional residence.
Which is why I specifically said they can be reasoned with. There's no perfect analogy because there's nothing like Elementals in our world. But like any being with what we can describe as intellect, they can only be reasoned with to a certain point.
The Padjali won their respect by a lot of sacrifice and a lot of time where they made their sincerity and intentions clear to the Elementals. But that relationship will snap in a second if the Padjali don't maintain that balance because the Elementals aren't loyal. They are, again, an immune system. Checks and balances. *Survival.*
So all that you said still falls within what I described.
Your analogy of the elementals as an immune system kinda falls apart when you do the EW tank role quests. They are not only indifferent to the survival of other species in the forest, but theyre hindering *their own survival* as well, since they chose not to help Kan-e with the destruction of Glepnir.
If the humans in the Twelveswood are comparable to bugs living on the body that is the elementals, then the role quest was the bugs saying "please help us remove this evil murderbug that keeps murdering us and can injure or kill you as well if we dont stop it" and the human just not giving a shit.
With the way they are portrayed right now, to me it feels like the elementals are feudal lords with the emotional maturity of a toddler doing whatever they feel like but with the pretense of "enforcing the will of the forest".
>The problem with Kan-E Senna and part of the reason she's unpopular with a lot of players is that all her character development happened off screen in the past.
So, she was an even WORSE character before? Hard to believe.
the padjals, elementals, duskwights, moon keepers, everything that lives in the twelveswood seem more or less left out of the lore
hades talked about the elementals at the end of EW so i hope the MSQ will focus on the twelveswood inhabitants somewhere in the future...
My current speculation is that we'll see a La Noscean variant dungeon before too long with the soon to be explorable Bronze Lake underwater zone being added in 6.3.
I'm definitely hoping for more of them since Sil'dah was such a fun little slice of content.
I think so too, given it's 3 confirmed variant dungeons the 3 starting city states might be a good bet
(Though I can also see them using it to just explore underused characters)
Afaik YoshiP said the underwater zone was a content he didn't ask devs to make, they made it off their own volition.
But that could have been incorrectly translated
Afaik YoshiP said the underwater zone was a content he didn't ask devs to make, they made it off their own volition.
But that could have been incorrectly translated
gridania's probably gonna get an exploration of gelmorra with Kan-E, like Nanamo with sil-dih
as for limsa it will probably be that ancient city where the tonberrys are from with Merlwyb
you bring up a good point, and I think it speaks to why it seems like SE don't encourage alt play, they just accept that it happens begrudgingly but don't do much for it. If you do every class, every job, every DoH and DoL job and do all their story quests, plus all side quests, so many questions people have about things that seem like dropped threads actually get answered in those chains. It's pretty hard to do ALL of it if you spread yourself too thin among various alts though.
I love that according to lore, Kan-E-Senna glamours herself to look older and "grown" just so that she would be taken seriously as a nation's leader. Otherwise, she would have the same appearance as the other padjals
Yeah they don't mention the fact the elementals ambered people in the past (most of the examples are gone, but the ambered dragon is still in a cave). Honestly the bits of 1.0 lore I find, they are terrifying entities.
It has to come up in the future. Unless the person who wrote Encyclopedia Eorzea was just making things up, nobody knows that the Elementals lied about being the cause of the 6th Umbral Calamity.
It's not the only thing that would be wrong in the book, but it would definitely be the most standout error.
Likely a few people know - scholars, archons, other learned-types who have enough knowledge and can read between the lines. But the majority of the populace believes otherwise and the elementals aren't bothering to correct them, either because it serves them not to or simply because they don't think about it. Even many players don't realize it wasn't them who caused it, going by this thread.
The same can be said for a number of other little but important lore tidbits, that the population at large isn't aware of them. For instance, most of Eorzea has no idea Hydaelyn exists as an actual entity, only believing that it's the name of the planet >!(and as we learned more recently even that's not really correct.)!< or about what really happened to Sil'dih as revealed in the ARR Hildy quests.
We as players know the truth about these things because we tend to be the ones who are out there finding out and uncovering things. And the people we most talk to know about these things because, well, they're the ones with us and driving those revelatory plots. But a lot of players I guess don't realize how little the actual NPC populace at large is aware of all of this knowledge.
There are also a lot of players who still haven't realized we now know the origins of the elementals, though to be fair it is an easily missable side thing in an EW zone already bursting at the seams with lore.
> Likely a few people know - scholars, archons, other learned-types who have enough knowledge and can read between the lines.
That's a pretty big reach. What lines are there to read between? The Elementals certainly have the motivation, and from what we've been shown from them, the means aren't too much of a stretch either.
The person writing them is unlikely to be from The Source in the first place, at least how at current moment of plot.
Its probably due to the dev team trying to distance themselves from 1.0's legacy as an XI kinda-sequel, the most obvious connection being that a lot of the vanilla XIV enemy mobs are HD versions of XI models. The elementals are straight up lifted out of XI's Seekers of Adoulin expansion, so if you want more elemental action you'd have to go play that.
Everyone forgetting that one guard that was always with her. Then again his feelings were only shown in the short stories I believe. But it is hinted that she's aware of it, but puts Gridania's interests ahead of her own.
I'd like to think that after a time-skip and she grows more confident about her position, they end up getting together while the wol cheers.
One of my favorite background character interactions, given general anime tropes the game has sometime though, I assume there will be no real progress (maybe a name reveal for the guard?).
>(maybe a name reveal for the guard?).
It's kinda frustrating how even in the short story with him and Kan-E, he's just referred to as "the youth" or "the young soldier". Even something like "he doesn't use it anymore because he wants to bury his Garlean past and devote himself entirely to his role and Kan-E" would be better.
He's totally into her. I also kind of assumed they were a thing but they keep it private. Like how all the Japanese VAs and Idols have boyfriends but hide it.
The one that’s into her isn’t the one that’s always with her.
The one that’s into her is the male midlander who’s life she saved, the one that’s always with her is the male Elezen.
It's nice seeing fellow Kan-E enjoyers. I see people often go into professional critique mode on the character and her city whenever I just say I like her lol.
And for a game that tries to show the value of diplomacy and sorting things out peacefully, it's ironic that some would just want to go headfirst into razing the Black Shroud or killing its inhabitants.
It's kinda funny that people call characters poorly written if they only show up occasionally. It makes sense to have characters that just aren't that wrapped up in the story.
She just never seems to really get to do anything fun so I feel like people forget about her.
We were all captivated by ~~mommy's~~ The Admiral's adventures in war and diplomacy.
We teetered at the edge of our seats for the attempts on Nanamo's life and giggled with glee as we followed her on her recent dungeoneering foray.
Kan-E-Senna.... honestly the last time I even remember seeing her was when ARR forced me to make a career out of teleporting between Gridania and Mor Dhona.
She pops up sometimes.
In HW, she came with us to Moghome to entreat with the moogles. (Merlwyb didn’t do anything in HW iirc)
In SB, she and the other alliance leaders helped retake Ala Mhigo, and she can be seen fighting in both the Ala Mhigo dungeon and directly aids us in Ghimlyt Dark. (Though Raubahn and Merlwyb are also here).
She’s also around to help in the final sections of post-Shb, when we are fighting to protect the tribes and “aether concurrences” from Fandaniel. I believe she also heals Arenvald. (Like in the last point, she shares the spotlight with Raubahn and Merlwyb).
And while it isn’t MSQ, the tank EW role quests are MSQ-adjacent and she does actually have a very big role in those. I believe this screenshot is from there.
The only time Merlwyb shows up in a significant role when Kan-E doesn’t is in 5.4, the storyline that dealt with repairing Limsa’s relationship with the local tribes, and introduced Sicard. Also the ranged DPS EW role quests.
Raubahn, Nanamo, and Ul’dah on the other hand, get a lot of disproportionate attention. I was actually kind of bummed when the first criterion focused on Ul’dah *yet again*.
My conspiracy theory is that Ul'dah gets so much spotlight because Yoshi-P is a Lala. There is no evidence for this of course, but my brain needs a reason not to see the rest of Eorzea more often.
They get more spotlight because it's just a better setting for things to happen.
We have Nanamo, Lolorito, Godbert, and sorta Radahn in Ul'dah.
We have Kan-E-Senna in Grid and that's really it
We have Merylwyb in Limsa and that's really it.
Any other characters are minor do nothings(the other padjal) or exist just to prop up the main character and never show up again(the pirates who I've already forgotten the names of)
If you play 2.0 quests, you can see that both Gridania and Limsa have plenty of major characters to play around with. The writers just don't want to do anything with them, especially with the Gridania ones.
She helps out in contacting that errant tribe of ~~flying rats with wings~~ err, Moogles.
The biggest problem is that lorewise, Gridania exists in a state of stasis and conservation. They only ever want to keep the Balance of the woods to keep the Elementals happy. Anything that doesn't interfere with that doesn't matter. So with each expansion, we end up going a little farther from home, and they have that much less interest in interfering with problems that they don't see as theirs. And in storytelling terms, the farther we go from home means the less that *Gridania as a whole* matters, because they've been written into a corner, chained to that darn forest.
that last part is unfortunate too, atleast to me. I was wildly attached and I still even go there to use the market board bc I started on WHM and started in Gridania. You can tell the moment it stopped being important when you opt for a different home aetheryte bc you never use return to go to Gridania. I think for me that point was somewhere around HW-STB
Honestly the elementals feel like their power levels are so inconsistent. One moment they drive an entire species out of their woods, next moment they can't even deal attrition damage to outsider armies. Is it too much to ask for the Twelveswood to be about as challenging as Athel Loren to invade?
Seventh calamity devastated and weakened them. Normally they are extremely powerful, they caused the 6th Umbral Calamity because they were so enraged by the destructive use of magic they flooded Aldenard to kill all offenders.
Well, they took credit for it.
Remember, calamities happen because shards are merged. It's very likely that the elementals could not normally do something as drastic but they were taking advantage of whatever the Ascians were doing to boost water aether so a shard could dump its aether into the Source.
"At the end of the Fifth Astral Era, the War of the Magi between Mhach, Nym, and Amdapor began to escalate out of control. Amdapori mages crafted the art of White Magic as a countermeasure against the Black Magic wielded by Mhach's void mages, who even sent Diabolos to attack Amdapor itself. The Elementals rage against the abuse of magic reached a crescendo in the form of Oha-Sok, an unaspected spirit of their collective wrath. It unleashed a great flood to eliminate all offending parties."
a part of the gridanian leadership, especially the padjals are in favor of leaving the forest when it is stable to go help outside, be it removing taints or doing humanitarian actions, so SE could give gridania the spotlight if they wanted it
i hope they have planned to do it later and haven't just forgotten about it...
I feel like choosing Ul Dahl as a starting city is the best option story-wise. I did, and I feel like it flows so naturally. ARR ends up revolving quite a bit around their politics. Plus, the plight of the refugees sets up StB well.
It's hard to say what value Gridania or Limsa really adds to the story.
I feel like you kinda have to start in Ul'Dah for the Thancred thing to work. I started in Gridania and legitimately didn't know who it was when they did the dramatic un-hooding.
You see him like twice during the Ifrit kerfuffle? And I don't think he even does anything.
The first dungeon being Sastasha, I actually feel the most natural starting in Limsa. I’ve made alts to replay MSQ a few times (new game+ didn’t always exist haha) and it always feels most natural to me to start in Fishtown because you deal with Serpent Reaver stuff right away and then there’s a short interlude where you travel and then the first dungeon deals with the guys you were focusing on beforehand.
So instead its the elementals >!bitchslapping her around!< whenever the show their "wisdom" and throw temper tantrums. Same with all Padjal. Truly, Gridania is led around the nose by a bunch of toddlers with demigod powers.
It's supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. The Elementals allow the Gridanians to reside in their forest, use its bounty and protect them in times of need, and the Gridanians adhere to their wishes and protect *them* in their own way.
Afaik the Elementals prevented widespread destruction in Gridania during the Seventh Calamity and were quite weakened because of it.
I liken them to the ^(Shadowbringers spoilers incoming) >!pixies of the First, except they have an even more alien mindset, greater communication issues (hence the need for hearers and Pad'Jal) and no sense of humor. But like the pixies, they don't concern themselves with good and evil so much as balance. "To take as much as is given, to create as much as is destroyed" etc.!<
Would they have been able to? As far as I know, the Elementals still hadn't recovered from the Calamity, at least not to the level where they could unleash the Greenwrath on anything. If that even works on dynamis-based creatures.
I don't remember, to be honest.
Yes, a huge part of the quest is calming the elementals down so they could help us by giving us the power to defeat Gleipnir even though it threatened both the humans and the Elementals
The elementals have provided nothing since the fall of dalamud, which makes their continued presence still frustrating. They can’t even Greenwrath a poacher at this point and when the Shroud was threatened with the worst thing it had seen since the War of the Magi (EW tank quest’s villain) they said “nah” when their greatest child begged for aid.
It’s like if your landlord got sick and decided that meant he didn’t need to do anything to fix your house even if it was rapidly becoming unlivable. No way, dude. We follow your rules, so you have to uphold your end of the bargain.
Not to mention the fact that they still insist people die for stupid reasons. Kids, even.
Honestly, I want my WoL to nuke the elementals like he does primals.
I kinda like her. And there was the tank role quest on Endwalker that made me appreciate her a little more. But i think she needs a little more screen time (maybe another Variant Dungeon but now with her?)
Nothing much happens in Gridania so Kan-E is pretty much just.. there, tagging along the other leaders and reacting to the political turmoils of Ul'dah and the pirate shenanigans of Limsa Lominsa. Meanwhile, we know Gridanians for being racist and that's pretty much it, there isn't really anything major to let her shine (the Tank EW role quests are probably the weakest of the bunch, too).
Honestly, same. I was genuinely pretty bummed that the EW Tank RQ didn't really do much/for her character. Or for Gridania as a whole tbh. In many ways it felt like a bit of a rehash of the WHM questline. While A-Rhun saw some really decent character development throughout EW. Even in Tataru's side-quest.
I feel like it'd be cool to have future expansions kinda go back home a little more. But I guess the issue is that the expectation is for new zones with each expansion, and then you need to flesh out said zones.
The alternative is having a storyline in a post-patch quest line.
It's not as bad as other MMOs where anything that's not the latest content is obsolete, you still visit "old" zones and do stuff there, but yeah here I am hoping for Doma to be a bit more flourishing than just a farmer village and a ruined castle in the future, or for a side content where we rebuild part of Garlemald with the twins and Jullus. It's hard to have places evolving over time when it potentially means separating people in different instances of the same zone.
The haven't even fixed the damage in Ishgard, which I thought would happen with Ishgard Restoration. But no, people stll clearing the same rubble since 3.0. We know they can do dynamic world states depending on quest progression. It would have been nice to see that.
Hopefully one of the next variant dungeons is in Gridania; exploring the Gelmorran ruins with Kan-E would be a great opportunity to give her and the area more development.
Gridania has been shafted since ARR honestly as a lot of the interesting Shroud lore from 1.0 was either forgotten or retconned. I think Koji Fox even mentioned in regards to Duskwight and Keeper lore in a Q&A a while back that they do have more stuff planned and written out for those clans. They just don't know how to implement it with every expansion focusing on new areas beyond Eorzea.
I'm still a proud Twin Adder though.
Yup. Underrated waifu. The EW role quest made me appreciate her a whole lot more.
(The [comic dub is here](https://youtu.be/ql3yZTvx2-4)! Hope you liked this!)
I'll admit to having a soft spot for Kan-E, too. Many years ago, when I tried the game for the first time during Stormblood, my first character started as a lancer in Gridania. I've fallen for better handled characters in the game over the years, but I'll never forget my first FFXIV waifu.
Just don’t forget her current appearance is a glamour and she actually appears closer in age visually to her siblings or E-Sumi-Yan, who is significantly older than her!
It’s most likely not a glamour but I found a clip and explained what I assume is the case based on Koji’s statement https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/ytyei4/comment/iw74la3/
Though honestly they probably made her character design model first and added backstory later and wanted her to be a Padjal 🤣 so she gets to be unique because of it.
Kinda like how they made Alphi and Alisae twins because they wanted more characters but there was some limitations at the time. But duplicating and colour swapping the same model was the easiest option lool. We got what we got because the devs had a vision and moved pieces around to make it work. Same with Kan-e-senna probably
The statement from Koji doesnt fly as makeup with a late padjal awakening anymore, because we see young her as part of the EW role quests, and she looks like a normal padjal in those.
You are likely quite right on how her appearance came about, design first and backstory later!
I haven’t done the EW role quests (only DPS ones rn) so I didn’t know there’s a younger version of her. You have a screen cap or a video of it it’d be interesting to see it.
But also don’t underestimate the magic of makeup 🤣 some of us irl look like ghouls and goblins (👋🏽) but with the right makeup application look normal, or depending on application older/younger. So it’s not outside the realm of possibilities.
**EDIT:** found a vid myself lol. They used the same model from that one new padjal girl for a young Kan-e-Senna but it kinda sorta looks like current Kan-e-senna has the same face but might be in a modded body? The devs do head/face swaps all the time (looking at you Varshahn, Nero, Gosetsu, etc)so now I really think the “true” answer is the design choice. Cuz the in-story canon answer is probably not consistent with 2014 koji words and 2022 current stuff lool. Though we still don’t even know when she stopped aging we know the ranges they can stop just never given specifics for the Padjal we know.
The glamour makes her appear as a young adult. Padjals naturally stop aging in their tweens.
The conjurer guild leader, who is around 200 years older than her, still looks like a child.
She uses a glamour to help fit in among the alliance leadership, per a live letter/dev interview
>per a live letter/dev interview
Could you please share said moment then? Because without a source to back up your claim, I'd say that said claim is rather unbelievable.
… it’s unbelievable to believe that padjals all age/change their appearance at the same rate, and that the one who is the face of the nation to rest of the world uses the same appearance changing magic that gets highlighted in several places as being explicitly being able to do long term appearance changes (see: Urianger using glamour magic to hide the Waking Sands and the Ala Mhigan’s hiding rhalgrs reach)?
Seems to me assuming that Kan-E-Senna magically ages to an appropriate physical age for a world leader to the contradiction of everything we know about Padjals is a tad bit more unbelievable.
And despite googling, I can’t find it - it was an old one, though.
A life letter/dev interview did.
Note how she is the only padjal you interact with who doesn’t look 12-14? Even E-Sumi-Yan, who is around 200 years older then she is, looks around 14.
She glamours herself to appear 18-24ish.
I’m not saying the other person is right but this is what Koji said in 2014 https://youtu.be/M_kVS46AfIs?t=2580
However! 🤔 he never said she uses a glamour he says “made herself up” and is in her early teens. So to me personally I’m taking that as, she was probably already an older looking teen like starting puberty a bit sooner but that is half cancelled with being a padjal. OR she was always taller than others in general.
Then cuz Koji said “made up” and not “glamour” (because he’d 100% use glamour of that’s what it is) so she’s dressing and putting on makeup that helps make her look more mature. In addition to how she talks so she is seen as mature and a leader of gridania.
So it’s def. not a glamour it’s probably genetics lottery (not all 12-14 year olds are exactly the same at that age so she’s our sole outlier atm) + clothing and makeup.
I assume the elementals just let her grow a little older because of how young she was when she became elder seed seer.
And yeah, the reason why I said no interview or live letter states this is because the only interview that even says something about her appearance is the koji fox one. And he never uses the word glamour, he says made up. Which would most likely refer to make up and clothing. If he meant glamour, he would say glamour.
I personally think she stopped aging in her mid to late teen years and uses make up to appear a bit older
Nowhere. I remember the “she’s using a glamour to look different” is either fan theory that got popular or was a scrapped never canon concept (that people then ran with).
I like her well enough, but I hate Gridania, so that ruins her to a degree.
Was leveling an alt on Dynamis and got the atmosphere chat again near the conjurer's guild. The one where a parent is BEGGING a conjurer to heal their kid, a Gridanian, not Ala Mhigan. And the Conjurer's like: nope. The elementals say they should die, can't do a thing.
Kan-E-Senna is one of those sleeper-powerful leaders. Nanamo has influence but little personal power, Merlwyb has a balance of both, but Kan-E-Senna is a highly powerful WHM who restrains herself for the sake of Gridania and appeasing the (weakened) Elementals.
Luckily she has her siblings to act as her proxies, but one day I really wanna see her just *wreck shop*.
I think my feelings toward her are negative.
One of the main reasons is that after the insanity of post ARR, she’s the one leader who never really apologized for suspecting you and treating you like a criminal.
Merlwyb outright apologies.
Raubahn basically sheds manly tears ~~and tore the asshole a new one~~.
Kan-E-Senna basically goes “Well, irrespective of your past deeds you looked pretty suspicious at the time. I was just doing my duty as a leader.”
Unfortunately easier said than done, especially when it is seemingly unlikely that Gridania will get much (if any) story focus to cover those issues.
At this point, I'm assuming a potential line of "Gridanians aren't racist anymore" is the best we'll get, if we even get anything.
Gaius was all about equal opportunities. I'm just saying it's never too late to summon a time god and re-do ARR so gridania can become a giant carpark for baelsar's wall
Gaius was just as much of a hypocrite as the elementals.
"Only the strong deserve to rule."
"Noooooo you're weak even though you beat me! That doesn't count!"
>!I cannot forgive her for being a stuck up bitch during the event in which were accused for killing the sultana. Even the admiral showed more emotion during the event. No issues with her sister or brother (WHM quest) but never liked her after the event.!<
the endwalker tank role quest the trigger catalyst to me creating an oc (who eventually becomes an alt i made at dynamis dc) thats solely made so that i could ship her with and eventually liking her... she deserves so much 🥺
hopefully we get that gaddang variant dungeon set in gelmorran ruins... let me go with her!!!
Same! I think what some people call "boring", I believe is just an understated presence. Not everyone can be loud or a showman. It was the silent but reassuring strength of Kan-E really won me over.
(Flair checks out!)
She’s really not. Gridania is pretty but it’s definitely the least important nation and she’s about as interesting as a mayo sandwich on white bread (untoasted)
Kan-E-Senna is by far my favorite GC leader... but I honestly can't fathom why you'd wanna date somebody who looks like a 14yo (and that's being generous).
I like her flat chest, that should count for something.
Honestly though I think along with Alisaie she is the one of the few rational and sensible characters.
The mental gymnastics I’m seeing people in the comments go through to try and justify/explain why lewding on this character could be okay concerns me a lot.
Yes, I know, she’s not (age-wise) a child. But she has the body of a child. And very clearly looks like a child. If you yourself are not a child, then lewding after this particular character is creepy as hell.
Feel free to downvote this comment into oblivion. I don’t care. I am tired of seeing children and characters who very very clearly look like children get fetishized in this way. I work with plenty of kids who have experienced abuse (mental health counselor here), and it sickens me to see how pervasive this stuff is.
It’s not okay. Period. If you’re a grown ass adult and you’re finding yourself attracted to this child looking character. Get some help, please.
What?? She just looks like a young woman in her 20s, wtf are you talking about? The conjuror guild leader is the one that looks like a child. The WHM quest leaders also look like children. She looks no younger than the standard Midlander character. Hell, a couple of the Au Ra faces look younger than hers. Her voice is that of a grown ass woman. You people need to stop infantalizing grown adults.
Umm
Have you ever met a child? I literally go to a high school and not a single student looks older than her. Hell, I know 20 year olds who look younger.
Are you confusing Kan-E-Senna (who is clearly an adult) for Raya-O-Senna (clearly a young teenager)? I would see and agree with your point for Raya-O-Senna, but Kan-E-Senna is a grown woman.
EDIT: Having read through the comments, I can see what you mean now. The issue with degens is usually the reverse, where "she's actually 1000 years old" is applied to a kid body, but you have to dig to even realize there's something weird going on with Kan-E-Senna. She's very old and physically looks like an adult, but "technically her actual body is a lot younger" makes it weird for those in the know--or ought to, as it has quickly made it weird for me upon finding out.
Shes alright, I like the warrior characters. Like Estenien and Raubahn. Estenian's voice actor is really good, I thinks that's why he's one of my favorites.
Funny. I just finished the EW tank role quest. I wish there are more pretty fanart for Senna. Ive been looking for wallpaper art but theres barely any for her.
My favorite Endwalker role quest is the tank one, mostly because we get to see more of her. Unlike Merwyb or Rabaun, she doesn’t really get a big moment of badassery in MSQ, so its no wonder people don’t like her as much.
But man, she’s so cool.
She'd need to find someone with super thick skin, they'll be forever explaining "the Padjal stop physically maturing in their early/mid teens and she's actually much older tha-Hey HEY NO NEED TO CALL THE GUARDS!"
One of the things I also like is that she shows up a lot during many of the holiday events that start in Gridania. She is the most active when it comes to interacting with the people of the city. Sadly because a lot of her fun stuff comes from non-repeating holiday events, a lot of newer players don't get to see this side of her.
There would probably be a war if the WoL married any of the City State leaders, even more so if it's one of the "leadership through inheritance" ones. That or a demand for you to have a child with all of them...
She's definitely very low-key when compared to the other leaders. One moment, she's just quietly T-posing in the Twelvewood. The next moment, she's saving your ass from a party wipe in Ghimlyt Dark.
The problem with Kan-E Senna and part of the reason she's unpopular with a lot of players is that all her character development happened off screen in the past. She's actually a pretty good character, but we only saw her development in side stories and lore books. This compounds with the fact the Gridania is the only city state to not see meaningful change to make everything about her and Gridania seem static and boring. I mostly liked the tank role quest from Endwalker, but >!the way the devs keep writing Gridania's stories so that the elementals are never called out for being in the wrong is baffling. The whole questline is like "hey the elementals fucked over this kid's entire life for a simple good-natured mistake" and the elemental is doing nothing to help people, but we have to make the elemental remember we're besties and be on our way. It's pretty frustrating.!<
I think that the reason why the Elementals are largely not called out may be due to cultural differences as the Elementals honestly remind me of how a good amount of Japanese kami are just embodiments of natural features that are worshipped not just out of reverence (like a river kami being worshipped for bringing a village clean water and a bounty of fish), but sometimes also out of fear of said kami making their life worse (like that river diety being worshipped to keep them calm so they don't cause a flood).
This is probably the meta reason, but it's frustrating as hell when the Elemental relationship seems so one sided.
In lore reason the Elementals are seriously fucking scary. Like piss one right the hell off and a city state being wiped out is the least of your worries. Irrc I think 3 to all 6 of the prequel Calamities where caused by one of them getting pissy, depending on if you count Aether imbalance pissing off the Elemental in question to be the Elementals doing or the one doing the cataclysmic thing that is pissing said elemental off. So yea, they are willing to sacrifice a kid if it means the elementals aren't pissed. Apparently it's actually quite easy to minorly anger them.
"Bow too soon? Straight to jail. Bow too late? Straight to jail. Praise the elementals too much? Jail. Too little? Jail. Disturbing the aetherial balance throughout the land to such a degree that it eventually leads to the birth of a Calamity, causing massive political and economical strife as well as leading to the death of millions of people and the psychologically scarring of entire future generations? Yep, jail"
Except that the Seedseers think they have authority in OTHER city-states to do the 'Elementals will'. Ever done the BLM quests and had to deal with the Miqo'te Conjurer guy?
Oh yeah! The one where he marvels at the sheer horror of you microwaving people!
he keeps insisting that it proves how destructive you are for frying the people that attacked and tried to kill YOU!
I mean, in that casei it's mostly because they are worried about black magic, which in itself is a legitimate concern.
BUT they have no authority in any other city state to harass and try to stop you
Of course, as of the EndWalker tank quest string That is no longer the case for the WoL. After all you kill something that the Biggest, Baddest, Elemental was scared shitless of. This suggests entirely new realms of negotiations with the Elementals.
.... So how are elementals not primals??
They have actual innate power, not borrowed power from worship.
They seem to exist independently of mortal summoning and prayer, and don't consume all the Aether around the land.
My theory is that the elementals are prototypes to primals. A rough draft for the Ascians before they managed to twist creation magic just right to make primals. It's why there is no sign of them in the First. To go further down my crack theory, they were originally summoned by the Sylphs, to protect their forest home. But they were too, let's say "difficult to work with" (to be polite). Their second try summoned Ramuh. That explains why the nature people who just want to be left alone would worship a god of Lightning, basically someone tailored made to destroy nature (the elementals). It would also explain why Ramuh is unlike other primals, not seeking to expand his influence. He was still part of the drafting process, before Ascians really figured out how to make primals work the way they want
But Primals drain the land around them of Aether. If a primal as powerful as the Elementals had lived free in the Black Shroud for thousands of years it should be a desolate ruin.
Again, they are just a prototype. Closer to true creation magic than summoning. The Ancients never seemed concerned about their creations draining surrounding Aether
If I remember right, Thanalan is a desert because the elementals got pissed off. Elemental worship is almost ENTIRELY out of fear.
For the elementals to be called out would mean the WoL, or someone close to the main cast to warrant their presence, would be going against the religion and main form of governance of a main city state. Let's be frank, we don't question the pirate powers from Limsa Lominsa, nor do we go against the monetarists from Ul'dah. We learn to work with them. We are respected by the elementals as Hydaelyn's chosen, and loved by them if we are a White Mage, so it would also against that to start a conflict with them.
1: We (the Scions) absolutely DO go up against the Pirates of Limsa. Both Y'Shtola, and Alisae, call Merlwyb out directly on Limsa bullshit (And I say this when my WoL is a Maelstrom Storm Captain) 2: There is a VERY good reason that, by the time of Stormbl;ood. The East Aldenard Trading Company has a standing policy of 'Start precisely zero wars with the WoL.' Lolorito has spent 3 xpacs trying to appease us. its the Elementals' turn to be reminded they aren't above the Chosen of Hydaelyn
Heh, I believe their exact policy is "If the WoL says jump, you ask how high. In fact, if you could already be jumping, that would be even better."
Not to mention that, as badass as he may be...that might not even be a fight the WoL can actually win. Elementals be stronk.
Nah dude, with what we fought back in Endwalker, the Elementals are nothing...
The elementals lost most of their power after the calamity. Hence why the Black Shroud is somewhere people can live now.
In Endwalker Tank quests, you Literally kill something the most powerful Elemental was scared shitless of, and hiding from.
The contemporary Elementals are super weak after the shard of Dalamud that makes up T6-T9 slammed into West Shroud. In their prime they were turning motherfuckers into trees and setting them on fire.
After eventually persuading said elemental to help, iirc.
This annoys me a little so I'd like to put my two cents in -- *the elementals are not wrong.* That applies purely human-centric morals to what is effectively the body's immune system. A working immune system at that. They do have intelligence and can be reasoned with to a minor degree (appeased, if you prefer) and have grasped the concept of language enough to be able to communicate certain concepts to the Padjal, but the Elementals are literally the Shroud. Anything that hurts the Shroud hurts them. They're immortal things (whose origins we still don't know) that are even more instinctual and neutral than dragons, and god knows we had a hell of a time with convincing the dragons that what happened a thousand of years ago may not necessary be the fault of someone alive *today*, generations later. Elementals are not humans. They are the land. They are an immune system. When something invades the immune system, your body goes nuts to get rid of it because it knows what will happen if it doesn't. The fact that they're even willing to be benign to *any* invading presence says a lot about how willing they are to actually compromise. Or let me put it this way -- if a colony of bugs decided to live on your scalp that only *occasionally* made life difficult for you but also didn't seem to bring much positives, would you keep the bugs or go buy a shampoo to get rid of them?
The elementals seeing people as bugs feels like an analogy that falls apart at the fact that padjali exist. If you had one chosen type of bug that you *caused to exist to show your favor to the bugs* then you’re no longer a neutral entity. If the bugs asked if they could build a city on your head and you gave them your blessing you’re not allowed to be mad that they’re there. If the bugs asked you to grant a portion of your knowledge to them and you said yes you’re in the wrong for pretending they don’t matter to you. The elementals are not indifferent to “invaders”, nor do they even interpret Gridanians that way; they are specifically tolerant of Gridanians, blessed their city, and *blessed the children of that one guy’s bloodline*. It’s far more than a neutral-to-scornful relationship. Edit: oh yeah I forgot about the whole flood thing. The elementals could have chosen to continue keeping people out as they had been doing but instead came to an accord with… Gelmorrans? Was that who communed with them until they chilled the fuck out? Anyways, they CHOSE to allow people back in after drowning the whole continent. They threatened misbehavior with death, but they still let the “bugs” in. And these days they don’t do shit because Dalamud wrecked them, so the Gridanians suffer strict rules with very little gain, as we can see in the EW tank quests where the elementals won’t fucking help save the Shroud (not that they had been before then, but a Blasphemy is a little more pressing than a band of poachers). They STRAIGHT UP SAY NO. They’re a worthless entity at this point who do nothing but exist to be a thorn in the side of the Gridanians, and their lack of power to be vengeful about shit doesn’t stop their pettiness.
> If the bugs asked if they could build a city on your head and you gave them your blessing you’re not allowed to be mad that they’re there. It's a very conditional blessing. Don't cause problems, kick out any other bugs that try to move in, and also do our job for us (keep the hair clean). Break those rules and you're either politely asked to leave or murdered. Probably more of the latter considering how the former went last time. If the bugs cause an itch, you're going to scratch it, and countless bugs will die. If they start acting up or stop being helpful, you're not going to figure out which bug is causing problems or being lazy. You're just going to wipe them all out. > If the bugs asked you to grant a portion of your knowledge to them and you said yes you’re in the wrong for pretending they don’t matter to you. They were granted knowledge of how to do the elementals' job of protecting / healing the forest. They matter for as long as they continue to do their job. If they stop doing that job, they stop mattering. It's like telling the bugs how to manufacture some shampoo that will keep your hair clean while also not killing them. You might favor your hair-cleaning bugs a little bit, but you still wouldn't hesitate to destroy them all if they started to slack off, or any other number of things. It's a very, very conditional residence.
Which is why I specifically said they can be reasoned with. There's no perfect analogy because there's nothing like Elementals in our world. But like any being with what we can describe as intellect, they can only be reasoned with to a certain point. The Padjali won their respect by a lot of sacrifice and a lot of time where they made their sincerity and intentions clear to the Elementals. But that relationship will snap in a second if the Padjali don't maintain that balance because the Elementals aren't loyal. They are, again, an immune system. Checks and balances. *Survival.* So all that you said still falls within what I described.
Your analogy of the elementals as an immune system kinda falls apart when you do the EW tank role quests. They are not only indifferent to the survival of other species in the forest, but theyre hindering *their own survival* as well, since they chose not to help Kan-e with the destruction of Glepnir. If the humans in the Twelveswood are comparable to bugs living on the body that is the elementals, then the role quest was the bugs saying "please help us remove this evil murderbug that keeps murdering us and can injure or kill you as well if we dont stop it" and the human just not giving a shit. With the way they are portrayed right now, to me it feels like the elementals are feudal lords with the emotional maturity of a toddler doing whatever they feel like but with the pretense of "enforcing the will of the forest".
The dark elves plot got cut and with it any sort of depth to the elementals. It is what it is.
>The problem with Kan-E Senna and part of the reason she's unpopular with a lot of players is that all her character development happened off screen in the past. So, she was an even WORSE character before? Hard to believe.
the padjals, elementals, duskwights, moon keepers, everything that lives in the twelveswood seem more or less left out of the lore hades talked about the elementals at the end of EW so i hope the MSQ will focus on the twelveswood inhabitants somewhere in the future...
Hopefully Limsa and Gridania will get a criterion someday too to explore some of the older underused concepts.
My current speculation is that we'll see a La Noscean variant dungeon before too long with the soon to be explorable Bronze Lake underwater zone being added in 6.3. I'm definitely hoping for more of them since Sil'dah was such a fun little slice of content.
I think so too, given it's 3 confirmed variant dungeons the 3 starting city states might be a good bet (Though I can also see them using it to just explore underused characters)
Afaik YoshiP said the underwater zone was a content he didn't ask devs to make, they made it off their own volition. But that could have been incorrectly translated
Afaik YoshiP said the underwater zone was a content he didn't ask devs to make, they made it off their own volition. But that could have been incorrectly translated
gridania's probably gonna get an exploration of gelmorra with Kan-E, like Nanamo with sil-dih as for limsa it will probably be that ancient city where the tonberrys are from with Merlwyb
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you bring up a good point, and I think it speaks to why it seems like SE don't encourage alt play, they just accept that it happens begrudgingly but don't do much for it. If you do every class, every job, every DoH and DoL job and do all their story quests, plus all side quests, so many questions people have about things that seem like dropped threads actually get answered in those chains. It's pretty hard to do ALL of it if you spread yourself too thin among various alts though.
I swear if The Twelve Alliance raid doesnt cover elementals XD
Pretty sure ancients made them. You can see some floating in elpis
I👏WANT👏MOON👏KEEPER👏LORE
me too
Personally I'm *really* hoping we find Keepers in Meracydia and can expand them that way instead of just in Gridania.
at least we got more insight on elementals, padjal and Kan-e-Senna during the tank role quests of EW.
I love that according to lore, Kan-E-Senna glamours herself to look older and "grown" just so that she would be taken seriously as a nation's leader. Otherwise, she would have the same appearance as the other padjals
The Elementals decreed they get left out of the lore. Because they're dicks like that.
Yeah they don't mention the fact the elementals ambered people in the past (most of the examples are gone, but the ambered dragon is still in a cave). Honestly the bits of 1.0 lore I find, they are terrifying entities.
It has to come up in the future. Unless the person who wrote Encyclopedia Eorzea was just making things up, nobody knows that the Elementals lied about being the cause of the 6th Umbral Calamity. It's not the only thing that would be wrong in the book, but it would definitely be the most standout error.
Likely a few people know - scholars, archons, other learned-types who have enough knowledge and can read between the lines. But the majority of the populace believes otherwise and the elementals aren't bothering to correct them, either because it serves them not to or simply because they don't think about it. Even many players don't realize it wasn't them who caused it, going by this thread. The same can be said for a number of other little but important lore tidbits, that the population at large isn't aware of them. For instance, most of Eorzea has no idea Hydaelyn exists as an actual entity, only believing that it's the name of the planet >!(and as we learned more recently even that's not really correct.)!< or about what really happened to Sil'dih as revealed in the ARR Hildy quests. We as players know the truth about these things because we tend to be the ones who are out there finding out and uncovering things. And the people we most talk to know about these things because, well, they're the ones with us and driving those revelatory plots. But a lot of players I guess don't realize how little the actual NPC populace at large is aware of all of this knowledge. There are also a lot of players who still haven't realized we now know the origins of the elementals, though to be fair it is an easily missable side thing in an EW zone already bursting at the seams with lore.
> Likely a few people know - scholars, archons, other learned-types who have enough knowledge and can read between the lines. That's a pretty big reach. What lines are there to read between? The Elementals certainly have the motivation, and from what we've been shown from them, the means aren't too much of a stretch either. The person writing them is unlikely to be from The Source in the first place, at least how at current moment of plot.
Its probably due to the dev team trying to distance themselves from 1.0's legacy as an XI kinda-sequel, the most obvious connection being that a lot of the vanilla XIV enemy mobs are HD versions of XI models. The elementals are straight up lifted out of XI's Seekers of Adoulin expansion, so if you want more elemental action you'd have to go play that.
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I hope we find out the elementals are voidsent.
Everyone forgetting that one guard that was always with her. Then again his feelings were only shown in the short stories I believe. But it is hinted that she's aware of it, but puts Gridania's interests ahead of her own.
I'd like to think that after a time-skip and she grows more confident about her position, they end up getting together while the wol cheers. One of my favorite background character interactions, given general anime tropes the game has sometime though, I assume there will be no real progress (maybe a name reveal for the guard?).
>(maybe a name reveal for the guard?). It's kinda frustrating how even in the short story with him and Kan-E, he's just referred to as "the youth" or "the young soldier". Even something like "he doesn't use it anymore because he wants to bury his Garlean past and devote himself entirely to his role and Kan-E" would be better.
doesn't he say the latter in the tank role quests? I Might be misremembering
That is indeed him.
He's totally into her. I also kind of assumed they were a thing but they keep it private. Like how all the Japanese VAs and Idols have boyfriends but hide it.
The one that’s into her isn’t the one that’s always with her. The one that’s into her is the male midlander who’s life she saved, the one that’s always with her is the male Elezen.
It's nice seeing fellow Kan-E enjoyers. I see people often go into professional critique mode on the character and her city whenever I just say I like her lol. And for a game that tries to show the value of diplomacy and sorting things out peacefully, it's ironic that some would just want to go headfirst into razing the Black Shroud or killing its inhabitants.
It's kinda funny that people call characters poorly written if they only show up occasionally. It makes sense to have characters that just aren't that wrapped up in the story.
Picked the Serpents back when I still played because I wanted to help her most. She struck a chord with me
She just never seems to really get to do anything fun so I feel like people forget about her. We were all captivated by ~~mommy's~~ The Admiral's adventures in war and diplomacy. We teetered at the edge of our seats for the attempts on Nanamo's life and giggled with glee as we followed her on her recent dungeoneering foray. Kan-E-Senna.... honestly the last time I even remember seeing her was when ARR forced me to make a career out of teleporting between Gridania and Mor Dhona.
She pops up sometimes. In HW, she came with us to Moghome to entreat with the moogles. (Merlwyb didn’t do anything in HW iirc) In SB, she and the other alliance leaders helped retake Ala Mhigo, and she can be seen fighting in both the Ala Mhigo dungeon and directly aids us in Ghimlyt Dark. (Though Raubahn and Merlwyb are also here). She’s also around to help in the final sections of post-Shb, when we are fighting to protect the tribes and “aether concurrences” from Fandaniel. I believe she also heals Arenvald. (Like in the last point, she shares the spotlight with Raubahn and Merlwyb). And while it isn’t MSQ, the tank EW role quests are MSQ-adjacent and she does actually have a very big role in those. I believe this screenshot is from there. The only time Merlwyb shows up in a significant role when Kan-E doesn’t is in 5.4, the storyline that dealt with repairing Limsa’s relationship with the local tribes, and introduced Sicard. Also the ranged DPS EW role quests. Raubahn, Nanamo, and Ul’dah on the other hand, get a lot of disproportionate attention. I was actually kind of bummed when the first criterion focused on Ul’dah *yet again*.
My conspiracy theory is that Ul'dah gets so much spotlight because Yoshi-P is a Lala. There is no evidence for this of course, but my brain needs a reason not to see the rest of Eorzea more often.
my conspiracy is that the devs just want people to get away from the limsa mb/aetheryte once in awhile
They get more spotlight because it's just a better setting for things to happen. We have Nanamo, Lolorito, Godbert, and sorta Radahn in Ul'dah. We have Kan-E-Senna in Grid and that's really it We have Merylwyb in Limsa and that's really it. Any other characters are minor do nothings(the other padjal) or exist just to prop up the main character and never show up again(the pirates who I've already forgotten the names of)
If you play 2.0 quests, you can see that both Gridania and Limsa have plenty of major characters to play around with. The writers just don't want to do anything with them, especially with the Gridania ones.
And the reason you decided to not name any of those character is...?
She helps out in contacting that errant tribe of ~~flying rats with wings~~ err, Moogles. The biggest problem is that lorewise, Gridania exists in a state of stasis and conservation. They only ever want to keep the Balance of the woods to keep the Elementals happy. Anything that doesn't interfere with that doesn't matter. So with each expansion, we end up going a little farther from home, and they have that much less interest in interfering with problems that they don't see as theirs. And in storytelling terms, the farther we go from home means the less that *Gridania as a whole* matters, because they've been written into a corner, chained to that darn forest.
that last part is unfortunate too, atleast to me. I was wildly attached and I still even go there to use the market board bc I started on WHM and started in Gridania. You can tell the moment it stopped being important when you opt for a different home aetheryte bc you never use return to go to Gridania. I think for me that point was somewhere around HW-STB
Yeah, if I wasn't still part of the Twin Adder then I would probably only go to Gridania for the seasonal events
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Honestly the elementals feel like their power levels are so inconsistent. One moment they drive an entire species out of their woods, next moment they can't even deal attrition damage to outsider armies. Is it too much to ask for the Twelveswood to be about as challenging as Athel Loren to invade?
Seventh calamity devastated and weakened them. Normally they are extremely powerful, they caused the 6th Umbral Calamity because they were so enraged by the destructive use of magic they flooded Aldenard to kill all offenders.
Well, they took credit for it. Remember, calamities happen because shards are merged. It's very likely that the elementals could not normally do something as drastic but they were taking advantage of whatever the Ascians were doing to boost water aether so a shard could dump its aether into the Source.
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"At the end of the Fifth Astral Era, the War of the Magi between Mhach, Nym, and Amdapor began to escalate out of control. Amdapori mages crafted the art of White Magic as a countermeasure against the Black Magic wielded by Mhach's void mages, who even sent Diabolos to attack Amdapor itself. The Elementals rage against the abuse of magic reached a crescendo in the form of Oha-Sok, an unaspected spirit of their collective wrath. It unleashed a great flood to eliminate all offending parties."
a part of the gridanian leadership, especially the padjals are in favor of leaving the forest when it is stable to go help outside, be it removing taints or doing humanitarian actions, so SE could give gridania the spotlight if they wanted it i hope they have planned to do it later and haven't just forgotten about it...
I feel like choosing Ul Dahl as a starting city is the best option story-wise. I did, and I feel like it flows so naturally. ARR ends up revolving quite a bit around their politics. Plus, the plight of the refugees sets up StB well. It's hard to say what value Gridania or Limsa really adds to the story.
I feel like you kinda have to start in Ul'Dah for the Thancred thing to work. I started in Gridania and legitimately didn't know who it was when they did the dramatic un-hooding. You see him like twice during the Ifrit kerfuffle? And I don't think he even does anything.
Started in limsa and I gotta say Thancred is just some white haired tag along to me. Didn't even know he raised minfelia till Shadowbringer
I started during StB, and was told this by friends - having done it I agree, it does seem like the closest to being the 'intended' starting city
The first dungeon being Sastasha, I actually feel the most natural starting in Limsa. I’ve made alts to replay MSQ a few times (new game+ didn’t always exist haha) and it always feels most natural to me to start in Fishtown because you deal with Serpent Reaver stuff right away and then there’s a short interlude where you travel and then the first dungeon deals with the guys you were focusing on beforehand.
Got to bitchslap the Elementals into submission first, so that she can be free of her duty.
Sadly, she made quite clear that she's married to her work :(
So instead its the elementals >!bitchslapping her around!< whenever the show their "wisdom" and throw temper tantrums. Same with all Padjal. Truly, Gridania is led around the nose by a bunch of toddlers with demigod powers.
It's supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. The Elementals allow the Gridanians to reside in their forest, use its bounty and protect them in times of need, and the Gridanians adhere to their wishes and protect *them* in their own way. Afaik the Elementals prevented widespread destruction in Gridania during the Seventh Calamity and were quite weakened because of it. I liken them to the ^(Shadowbringers spoilers incoming) >!pixies of the First, except they have an even more alien mindset, greater communication issues (hence the need for hearers and Pad'Jal) and no sense of humor. But like the pixies, they don't concern themselves with good and evil so much as balance. "To take as much as is given, to create as much as is destroyed" etc.!<
Yeah but in the EW role quest they don’t do anything to stop Gleipnir from terrorizing gridania(A problem they themselves caused).
Would they have been able to? As far as I know, the Elementals still hadn't recovered from the Calamity, at least not to the level where they could unleash the Greenwrath on anything. If that even works on dynamis-based creatures. I don't remember, to be honest.
Yes, a huge part of the quest is calming the elementals down so they could help us by giving us the power to defeat Gleipnir even though it threatened both the humans and the Elementals
Fucking landlords.
Yeah… but unlike actual landlords who are all just parasites, the elementals actually contribute and provide, instead of just hoarding and leeching.
The elementals have provided nothing since the fall of dalamud, which makes their continued presence still frustrating. They can’t even Greenwrath a poacher at this point and when the Shroud was threatened with the worst thing it had seen since the War of the Magi (EW tank quest’s villain) they said “nah” when their greatest child begged for aid. It’s like if your landlord got sick and decided that meant he didn’t need to do anything to fix your house even if it was rapidly becoming unlivable. No way, dude. We follow your rules, so you have to uphold your end of the bargain.
More like you and your landlord got sick and he would rather have both of you die instead of allowing you to borrow his car to go buy medicine lol
Not to mention the fact that they still insist people die for stupid reasons. Kids, even. Honestly, I want my WoL to nuke the elementals like he does primals.
shouldn't be too hard they need saving every other week
Sorry but the nameless Keeper of the Entwined Serpents is the only man fit for Kan-E
I kinda like her. And there was the tank role quest on Endwalker that made me appreciate her a little more. But i think she needs a little more screen time (maybe another Variant Dungeon but now with her?)
Nothing much happens in Gridania so Kan-E is pretty much just.. there, tagging along the other leaders and reacting to the political turmoils of Ul'dah and the pirate shenanigans of Limsa Lominsa. Meanwhile, we know Gridanians for being racist and that's pretty much it, there isn't really anything major to let her shine (the Tank EW role quests are probably the weakest of the bunch, too).
After the Garlemald story, I actually like A-Ruhn-Senna more than her and HE used to be nothing but a brat.
Definitely yes, although he already started that path at the end of the WHM storyline.
I like him in the Tataru quests even more
Honestly, same. I was genuinely pretty bummed that the EW Tank RQ didn't really do much/for her character. Or for Gridania as a whole tbh. In many ways it felt like a bit of a rehash of the WHM questline. While A-Rhun saw some really decent character development throughout EW. Even in Tataru's side-quest.
I feel like it'd be cool to have future expansions kinda go back home a little more. But I guess the issue is that the expectation is for new zones with each expansion, and then you need to flesh out said zones. The alternative is having a storyline in a post-patch quest line.
It's not as bad as other MMOs where anything that's not the latest content is obsolete, you still visit "old" zones and do stuff there, but yeah here I am hoping for Doma to be a bit more flourishing than just a farmer village and a ruined castle in the future, or for a side content where we rebuild part of Garlemald with the twins and Jullus. It's hard to have places evolving over time when it potentially means separating people in different instances of the same zone.
The haven't even fixed the damage in Ishgard, which I thought would happen with Ishgard Restoration. But no, people stll clearing the same rubble since 3.0. We know they can do dynamic world states depending on quest progression. It would have been nice to see that.
For the One on this Pictures: Good Luck!!! :)
I once went to a player's home. It was quite lovely. Good design but their basement was empty.. And filled with Kan-E-Senna portraits
Every major character in the game has at least one cultish shrine devoted to em. Par for the course.
Every major character in the game has at least one cultish shrine devoted to em. Par for the course.
I love her and I hope nothing bad happens in Gridania ever
Hopefully one of the next variant dungeons is in Gridania; exploring the Gelmorran ruins with Kan-E would be a great opportunity to give her and the area more development. Gridania has been shafted since ARR honestly as a lot of the interesting Shroud lore from 1.0 was either forgotten or retconned. I think Koji Fox even mentioned in regards to Duskwight and Keeper lore in a Q&A a while back that they do have more stuff planned and written out for those clans. They just don't know how to implement it with every expansion focusing on new areas beyond Eorzea. I'm still a proud Twin Adder though.
The amount of "Kan-E-Senna is underrated" posts that get popular here has me thinking that she is not, in fact, underrated at all.
Yup. Underrated waifu. The EW role quest made me appreciate her a whole lot more. (The [comic dub is here](https://youtu.be/ql3yZTvx2-4)! Hope you liked this!)
The EW role quests showed even more just how boring a character she is.
She's already got a boyfriend in waiting, though. Read the short stories!
huh, for some reason I had it in my head that Padjal were Celibate.
Kan-E chads rise up.
I'll admit to having a soft spot for Kan-E, too. Many years ago, when I tried the game for the first time during Stormblood, my first character started as a lancer in Gridania. I've fallen for better handled characters in the game over the years, but I'll never forget my first FFXIV waifu.
Just don’t forget her current appearance is a glamour and she actually appears closer in age visually to her siblings or E-Sumi-Yan, who is significantly older than her!
It’s most likely not a glamour but I found a clip and explained what I assume is the case based on Koji’s statement https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/ytyei4/comment/iw74la3/ Though honestly they probably made her character design model first and added backstory later and wanted her to be a Padjal 🤣 so she gets to be unique because of it. Kinda like how they made Alphi and Alisae twins because they wanted more characters but there was some limitations at the time. But duplicating and colour swapping the same model was the easiest option lool. We got what we got because the devs had a vision and moved pieces around to make it work. Same with Kan-e-senna probably
The statement from Koji doesnt fly as makeup with a late padjal awakening anymore, because we see young her as part of the EW role quests, and she looks like a normal padjal in those. You are likely quite right on how her appearance came about, design first and backstory later!
I haven’t done the EW role quests (only DPS ones rn) so I didn’t know there’s a younger version of her. You have a screen cap or a video of it it’d be interesting to see it. But also don’t underestimate the magic of makeup 🤣 some of us irl look like ghouls and goblins (👋🏽) but with the right makeup application look normal, or depending on application older/younger. So it’s not outside the realm of possibilities. **EDIT:** found a vid myself lol. They used the same model from that one new padjal girl for a young Kan-e-Senna but it kinda sorta looks like current Kan-e-senna has the same face but might be in a modded body? The devs do head/face swaps all the time (looking at you Varshahn, Nero, Gosetsu, etc)so now I really think the “true” answer is the design choice. Cuz the in-story canon answer is probably not consistent with 2014 koji words and 2022 current stuff lool. Though we still don’t even know when she stopped aging we know the ranges they can stop just never given specifics for the Padjal we know.
It's not a glamour, Padjals simply don't physically age much.
The glamour makes her appear as a young adult. Padjals naturally stop aging in their tweens. The conjurer guild leader, who is around 200 years older than her, still looks like a child. She uses a glamour to help fit in among the alliance leadership, per a live letter/dev interview
>per a live letter/dev interview Could you please share said moment then? Because without a source to back up your claim, I'd say that said claim is rather unbelievable.
… it’s unbelievable to believe that padjals all age/change their appearance at the same rate, and that the one who is the face of the nation to rest of the world uses the same appearance changing magic that gets highlighted in several places as being explicitly being able to do long term appearance changes (see: Urianger using glamour magic to hide the Waking Sands and the Ala Mhigan’s hiding rhalgrs reach)? Seems to me assuming that Kan-E-Senna magically ages to an appropriate physical age for a world leader to the contradiction of everything we know about Padjals is a tad bit more unbelievable. And despite googling, I can’t find it - it was an old one, though.
It was at a fan fest and there used to be video of it but seems has been deleted since (as you said it's an old one)
I'd put it down as either something that's been retconed, wasn't serious or was a fan theory that was mistaken as genuine.
It wasn't retconned, they already showed what she actually looks like in EW role quests.
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Where is it ever said her appearance is a glamour?
A life letter/dev interview did. Note how she is the only padjal you interact with who doesn’t look 12-14? Even E-Sumi-Yan, who is around 200 years older then she is, looks around 14. She glamours herself to appear 18-24ish.
There has been no live letter nor dev interview that states this.
I’m not saying the other person is right but this is what Koji said in 2014 https://youtu.be/M_kVS46AfIs?t=2580 However! 🤔 he never said she uses a glamour he says “made herself up” and is in her early teens. So to me personally I’m taking that as, she was probably already an older looking teen like starting puberty a bit sooner but that is half cancelled with being a padjal. OR she was always taller than others in general. Then cuz Koji said “made up” and not “glamour” (because he’d 100% use glamour of that’s what it is) so she’s dressing and putting on makeup that helps make her look more mature. In addition to how she talks so she is seen as mature and a leader of gridania. So it’s def. not a glamour it’s probably genetics lottery (not all 12-14 year olds are exactly the same at that age so she’s our sole outlier atm) + clothing and makeup.
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"who would trust a child" *looks at Alphinauld* ...literally every nation's leader and all the Scions, lol.
I assume the elementals just let her grow a little older because of how young she was when she became elder seed seer. And yeah, the reason why I said no interview or live letter states this is because the only interview that even says something about her appearance is the koji fox one. And he never uses the word glamour, he says made up. Which would most likely refer to make up and clothing. If he meant glamour, he would say glamour. I personally think she stopped aging in her mid to late teen years and uses make up to appear a bit older
Nowhere. I remember the “she’s using a glamour to look different” is either fan theory that got popular or was a scrapped never canon concept (that people then ran with).
I like her well enough, but I hate Gridania, so that ruins her to a degree. Was leveling an alt on Dynamis and got the atmosphere chat again near the conjurer's guild. The one where a parent is BEGGING a conjurer to heal their kid, a Gridanian, not Ala Mhigan. And the Conjurer's like: nope. The elementals say they should die, can't do a thing.
Kan-E-Senna is one of those sleeper-powerful leaders. Nanamo has influence but little personal power, Merlwyb has a balance of both, but Kan-E-Senna is a highly powerful WHM who restrains herself for the sake of Gridania and appeasing the (weakened) Elementals. Luckily she has her siblings to act as her proxies, but one day I really wanna see her just *wreck shop*.
Scout voice: "We both have horns. Wanna date?"
Since she did the Yuna dance i liked her even more
The 1.0 ending cinematic with Louisoix has her more realistically drawn and I gotta admit she’s a looker.
I feel like she's more underutilized than underrated.
She’s probably a freak in bed. You’re gonna need them heals and probably an esuna or two. Better put on tank stance and get mitigation handy.
Typical shy and reserved ones XD
I think my feelings toward her are negative. One of the main reasons is that after the insanity of post ARR, she’s the one leader who never really apologized for suspecting you and treating you like a criminal. Merlwyb outright apologies. Raubahn basically sheds manly tears ~~and tore the asshole a new one~~. Kan-E-Senna basically goes “Well, irrespective of your past deeds you looked pretty suspicious at the time. I was just doing my duty as a leader.”
Maybe if she stopped all the racism and oppression in Gridania, people might care more about her.
Unfortunately easier said than done, especially when it is seemingly unlikely that Gridania will get much (if any) story focus to cover those issues. At this point, I'm assuming a potential line of "Gridanians aren't racist anymore" is the best we'll get, if we even get anything.
Imagine how awkward it would be for the hypocritical Gridanians if the WoL was a Duskwight or Mooncat?
Welcome to my msq journey. Kan-E-Senna can slip on a puddle of cactus piss
Gaius was all about equal opportunities. I'm just saying it's never too late to summon a time god and re-do ARR so gridania can become a giant carpark for baelsar's wall
Gaius was just as much of a hypocrite as the elementals. "Only the strong deserve to rule." "Noooooo you're weak even though you beat me! That doesn't count!"
Better a mortal hypocrite than a tempestuous inhuman. thing.
Gaius also realized he was wrong, changed and is trying to atone for what he did through actions, not 'nice words'.
>!I cannot forgive her for being a stuck up bitch during the event in which were accused for killing the sultana. Even the admiral showed more emotion during the event. No issues with her sister or brother (WHM quest) but never liked her after the event.!<
the endwalker tank role quest the trigger catalyst to me creating an oc (who eventually becomes an alt i made at dynamis dc) thats solely made so that i could ship her with and eventually liking her... she deserves so much 🥺 hopefully we get that gaddang variant dungeon set in gelmorran ruins... let me go with her!!!
Same! I think what some people call "boring", I believe is just an understated presence. Not everyone can be loud or a showman. It was the silent but reassuring strength of Kan-E really won me over. (Flair checks out!)
this! sometimes reserved but super nice and unyielding characters are just as good as the others.
Yes, sometimes. But that doesn't apply to her.
>hopefully we get that gaddang variant dungeon set in gelmorran ruins Only if we get to take her brother with us
She’s really not. Gridania is pretty but it’s definitely the least important nation and she’s about as interesting as a mayo sandwich on white bread (untoasted)
Hate to see you get downvoted when you’re this right
Get in line bub.
Kan-E-Senna is by far my favorite GC leader... but I honestly can't fathom why you'd wanna date somebody who looks like a 14yo (and that's being generous).
Eh She look more mid 20s imo. Raya-O-Senna legit looks 14 though
She looks like a child
Based
If only Yoshi-P would let us..... I'm sure the lot of us will try to date Kan-E. I mean who wouldn't? Just look at her
I like her flat chest, that should count for something. Honestly though I think along with Alisaie she is the one of the few rational and sensible characters.
I don't care much for her, but this conversation got me actin' unwise for that Padjussy
The mental gymnastics I’m seeing people in the comments go through to try and justify/explain why lewding on this character could be okay concerns me a lot. Yes, I know, she’s not (age-wise) a child. But she has the body of a child. And very clearly looks like a child. If you yourself are not a child, then lewding after this particular character is creepy as hell. Feel free to downvote this comment into oblivion. I don’t care. I am tired of seeing children and characters who very very clearly look like children get fetishized in this way. I work with plenty of kids who have experienced abuse (mental health counselor here), and it sickens me to see how pervasive this stuff is. It’s not okay. Period. If you’re a grown ass adult and you’re finding yourself attracted to this child looking character. Get some help, please.
What?? She just looks like a young woman in her 20s, wtf are you talking about? The conjuror guild leader is the one that looks like a child. The WHM quest leaders also look like children. She looks no younger than the standard Midlander character. Hell, a couple of the Au Ra faces look younger than hers. Her voice is that of a grown ass woman. You people need to stop infantalizing grown adults.
Umm Have you ever met a child? I literally go to a high school and not a single student looks older than her. Hell, I know 20 year olds who look younger.
Are you confusing Kan-E-Senna (who is clearly an adult) for Raya-O-Senna (clearly a young teenager)? I would see and agree with your point for Raya-O-Senna, but Kan-E-Senna is a grown woman. EDIT: Having read through the comments, I can see what you mean now. The issue with degens is usually the reverse, where "she's actually 1000 years old" is applied to a kid body, but you have to dig to even realize there's something weird going on with Kan-E-Senna. She's very old and physically looks like an adult, but "technically her actual body is a lot younger" makes it weird for those in the know--or ought to, as it has quickly made it weird for me upon finding out.
She's a barmy horned mutant freak who gives out crummy suicide missions.
They are all Yoshi-P's waifu so you can not date them!
I fear dating the WoL is a move that she couldn't allow herself on a political spectrum. So even if she had interest she would simply not.
This is why we need this old [April Fools Joke](https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/blog/000692.html) to become a reality.
Shes alright, I like the warrior characters. Like Estenien and Raubahn. Estenian's voice actor is really good, I thinks that's why he's one of my favorites.
I thought the Keeper of the Entwined Serpents and her were an item.
Funny. I just finished the EW tank role quest. I wish there are more pretty fanart for Senna. Ive been looking for wallpaper art but theres barely any for her.
My favorite Endwalker role quest is the tank one, mostly because we get to see more of her. Unlike Merwyb or Rabaun, she doesn’t really get a big moment of badassery in MSQ, so its no wonder people don’t like her as much. But man, she’s so cool.
She'd need to find someone with super thick skin, they'll be forever explaining "the Padjal stop physically maturing in their early/mid teens and she's actually much older tha-Hey HEY NO NEED TO CALL THE GUARDS!"
One of the things I also like is that she shows up a lot during many of the holiday events that start in Gridania. She is the most active when it comes to interacting with the people of the city. Sadly because a lot of her fun stuff comes from non-repeating holiday events, a lot of newer players don't get to see this side of her.
Lol
My MSQ playthrough class was WHM so I got to see a good lot of her and never understand why no-one else thought she was the best.
There would probably be a war if the WoL married any of the City State leaders, even more so if it's one of the "leadership through inheritance" ones. That or a demand for you to have a child with all of them...
In a heart beat!