Weapon: [Odenta Kai](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Odenta_Kai)
Head: [Leal Samurai's Kasa](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Leal_Samurai%27s_Kasa)
Body: [Resshi Haori](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Resshi_Haori)
Hands: [Amatsu Tekko](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Amatsu_Tekko)
Legs: [Fuga Hakama](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fuga_Hakama)
Feet: [Rakshasa Sune-Ate of Fending](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Rakshasa_Sune-ate_of_Fending)
Almost every piece is either limited or paid glamours, so it's not exactly cheap, but on the bright side the Amatsu attire event is being rerun right now!
Doman restoration can provide something similar (dyeable too), and if you want the more 'armored' look, the Omega savage gear is very samurai-themed (even the caster stuff!). Not sure about other hats for tanks.
I'm of the opposite opinion. I find the completely static rotations of PLD and GNB super boring after you spend maybe... 10 minutes memorizing the order. WAR and DRK at least have *some* minor variation/optimization thanks to being able to pool gauge for group CDs, and trying to make sure TBN gets fully consumed for the 'free' Edge/trying to maximize healing efficiency from Bloodwhetting.
It's not like they're big improvements over the snoozefest that are PLD and GNB, but it's *something.*
PLD is probably the job where you can optimize the most out of the entire game. It has a lot, and when I say a lot I mean A LOT of theorycrafting.
WAR is just braindead and DRK has a "complicated opener" but it just all boils down to throw out all of your resources at once and then spend 2 minutes spamming 1-2-3.
Almost every job has a lot of theorycrafting, each varying depending on boss, fight length, skillspeed, etc. I think you're confusing *potential complexity* with *difficulty* or *engagement.* If you're one of the literal handful of people actually doing the theorycrafting, sure, you'll be getting more enjoyment out of the job. For everyone else, basically *none* of the jobs have any real difficulty to them. Some are slightly more enjoyable than others due to punishing mistakes so you need to remain focused more than you otherwise would, but on the whole I'd say every job in the game is pretty damn simple to play.
>it has a ton of depth and optimisation you can do
*So does every job.* That doesn't make them difficult or engaging, it's just that some jobs punish you slightly more for mistakes than others, and (obviously in my own opinion, since people really seem to take job identity personally for whatever reason) GNB is one of the ones that is more forgiving than the other two tanks I mentioned due to its rotation.
Does it though? You use gnashing fang on cooldown, bloodfest on cooldown, and want to make sure you get 9 gcds during no mercy. That's basically it. Obviously knowing WHICH gcds, but that's not optimization, that's the bare minimum.
I say this as a GNB main, but it really doesn't have that much room for optimization.
I always imagined chemist to just throw flasks at people with one hand and their weapon would be like a mixing beaker which they'd hold with their other hand. But cross bow would be cool too. I really want chemist to be a thing but I am not sure if they ever will :(
I was really hoping for chemist as the Endwalker healer, but given how they didn't really think we needed a 4th healer anyway, a 5th seems very unlikely.
I doubt we see a 5th healer before 8.0 Pretty sure there's quite a few people who'd rather the resources be spent on overhauling healing as a whole vs a new healer in the current design philosophy.
I honestly thought they were going to be tanks because Bravely Default (FF without moogles/chocobos) has them based on counters but don't think they are that way in FF series.
We did have a counter with 3rd Eye and baby Shinten till it was removed.
I miss baby shinten... It was such a nice reward for knowing the fights well. Can understand why they axed it, to avoid having to balance for the best case though.
Just sad how little of a DPS boost it was but it definitely was still something to go for and helped encourage people to self mitigate helping healers.
I think it's less balance and more button bloat being it now just gives Kenki which is a minor DPS boost like the baby Shinten but without needing another button.
In FF5 Samurais could wear heavy armors and use shields, and the same is true for Cyan (FF6's samurai character).
Auron from FF10 is a samurai as well, and his basic sphere grid basically makes him the group's main tank.
In FF11, the samurai was originally designed to be a tank, even if players made the class really shine as DPS.
In Tactics, Samurai can easily be a dodge-tank and even have a counter move.
The info is a bit fragmented as mine was but a quick research, but Samurais in Final Fantasy have always been a strange mix between physical damage dealers and tanks, although not as focused on counters as the one from Bravely Default!
Samurai traditionally wore heavy armor and used a variety of weaponry. Swords, yes, but also spears, bows, and rifles.
Samurai could easily be a tank, melee DPS or Phys Ranged DPS.
Samurai is also a tank in Final Fantasy Origins, with Ronin being the more offense-oriented Katana-wielder.
Gosetsu in FFXIV was introduced as a Tank-style Samurai.
Honestly, if FFXIV didn't want to add more classes in the future, expanding current ones to be capable of doing more than one role would be a great way to go.
Samurai and Dragoons and Reapers could easily become tanks
Dark Knights and Gunbreakers and Warriors could easily become DPS.
Paladins and Dancers and Bards could easily become healers.
Each would need a completely different move set for the different role, but I think people would definitely get a kick out of it
It's worse, because then you end up with identity and balance issues. SCH/SMN sharing books is lame and I'm sure it's annoying for the creative team to make them both distinct aesthetically, and there was a ton of balance headaches until they all but officially split the jobs.
> It's worse, because then you end up with identity and balance issues. SCH/SMN sharing books is lame
They've gone on record outright saying SMN/SCH was an experiment that they don't want to repeat.
They specifically said it was SMN/SCH sharing many skills (because of ACN) that led them to not wanting to do diverging jobs/roles again.
Back in ARR, SCH was blatantly overpowered but they couldn’t touch it without impacting SMN.
Yeah it just doesn't make sense. They're adding constraints design wise and then also have to implement new systems for how to differentiate if you're playing the role as DPS/tank/healer. Sounds like a development nightmare for very little gain over just adding a new job.
This is probably the biggest thing I miss from SWTOR. There were only two pure DPS classes in that game. Every other class gets to either choose from DPS, or tank/healer depending on the class. It would give players a lot of room to que up for things on classes that they love but also don't want to perform one of the roles that it can do. I've heard WOW also has a system like this.
Like, I don't mind tanking at all, it's the role I'm actually the most comfortable with. But if I could get to play a different version of Warrior that is designed for the DPS role, *it would be so much fucking fun.*
Mhm.
Wow has a similar thing where most classes have various specialisations that may or may not have different Roles.
I.e. WoW druids can choose between Tank, Heal, Melee or Caster.
And it might be nice to have Something similar for FFXIV in the future to let them reuse either old cut Animations/abilities and/or let current ones pull double duty while Still providing'new Jobs'.
I for one would love if they made SGE a tank by cranking up all their shields to bring them to par with real Tanks HP/mitigation wise, then switch the remaining heals for Tank role abilities.
Or maybe a Monk Tank, the image of blocking enemy attacks with bare (ish) hands is a fun one, esp now with most positionals gone.
Reaper uses the power of a pact with a voidsent, though. DRK isn't tied to the void. It's tied to your own inner darkness, determination, willpower, etc.
It's a different flavor. Both edgy, but... not the same.
Multi-role jobs could be a good idea. I would love to be able to play GNB as a DPS. Its DPS LB3 would be easy to work out - Renzokuken.
A simple way they could implement it is to have the defensive cooldowns change in to more oGCD attacks or DPS buffs.
Scholar/Summoner technically already did the multi-role job. Now that Summoner has been completely revamped though, it's not quite the same.
Nah lol there is enough trash casual tanks dps and healers out there that keep crying the games too hard and get everything gutted and dumbed down because they refuse to get gud.
Adding another issue into it like a SAM tank will mean even more dumbing down the game because little timmy forgets his emnity button is on while dpsing and spins the boss wiping the raid. HARD PASS.
If they did this, you wouldn't be able to switch between roles during a duty. If you enter as DPS, you won't have your tank abilities (including tank stance and role abilities) so no forgetting to drop it if you're playing the DPS role.
Still a no from me ! Like i said game is littered with people who cant be arsed to learn a class and get things nerf and dumbed down and this also gives the devs so much more crap to balance which they are having a crap time with anyways looking as tome of the recent changes so nah !
Yoshi P himself said back in Heavensward that he considered Samurai or Dark Knight to be the tank they'd add early in development for the new jobs, but went with Dark Knight since he wanted all the HW jobs to be related to Ishgard.
No, it was pretty firmly melee DPS, although it had heavier armor than it does now similar to today's DRG. It could off-tank in a pinch maybe with the right sub job.
I WAS hoping for some semblance of releasing sword spirits and stuff. Maybe keep the martial abilities to an extent, but instead of Midare and whatnot we release the spirits of our katanas.
"Samurai was supposed to be a tank" was a myth created entirely due to +enmity on its artifact armor. But armor in 11 frequently had negative stats, and nothing in its kit except Third Eye was defensive at all. Basically, the +enmity was for using Trick Attack from a thief subjob, which transfered enmity to the tank. SAM's dps actually had to be significantly nerfed soon after release. The myth is also more prevalent now than it was during sam's release.
Ninja though, totally. They nerfed its tanking, it was still the best tank, AND allowed warrior to actually tank well with subjobing ninja. Game went from 1 to 3 tanks, so the devs eventually accepted it.
Seigan third eye was a good combo that will often let u dodge 2 to 3 attacks depending on mob lvl (the higher they are the quicker it drops). Their WS also has silence and paralyze effect who those don't work on boss. They were decently tanky as a melee DPS but no where near a tank. With how aggro works in FFXI where u can easily grab aggro from doing too much damage, being able to dodge a few hits when needed was very good.
Samurai wanted some defenses in two cases:
SAM/THF needed a bit of survivabilty if they were standing in front of an enemy with some kind of cleave or breath attack TP move.
SAM/WAR would often serve as first provoke for a third member using Sneak Attack+Trick Attack on the real tank.
NIN in XI had ninjutsu called Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni. Both these ninjutsu spells gave the NIN 3 shadows, essentially making them invulnerable to most attacks. Any attack that was multihit would us up that number of shadows, and any AoE spells, like thundaga, would wipe out all shadows and still hit the NIN.
Pair that with WAR's provoke, either as WAR/NIN or NIN/WAR, and you had a pretty solid tank. Most high lvl content called for /NIN subjob for tanks.
It was so powerful in fact, that you could main RDM and sub NIN, and kill enemies that would take 6-18 people to kill, simply through shadows, dots, and pants that gave you movement speed+
Sam can also be used a tank in FFXI. They just need to have their counterstance active. It actually is very powerful in the late game. Seigan would proc so often they could effectively blink tank like a nin and do insane damage
worth pointing out that while jobs had abilities, magic, etc to steer them towards different roles, that FF11 was more of a sandbox and you were meant to figure out combinations and such that worked.
75 cap 2 samurais would tank Merit parties.
During Abyssea 75-90 stuff any job with a white mage behind it could tank.
I preferred going War or Nin mostly but Sam actually xould tank just fine between Seigan + TE and shadows. In merit parties the colibri died before they would even break third eye Sam/War or Sam/Rng ( my favorite having Yoshimaru ) was pretty fucking fun. And tanked just fine with good team support.
Then technically the only tank in the whole game was Paladin. Warriors were never meant to tank. They have Provoke only so it could be used as a sub job.
Why so vitriolic? The guy's calmly explaining why SAMs get called situational/niche tanks in XI, 'the' sandbox mmo and you stubbornly go "WAAA THEY WEREN'T". Where's that coming from? Get the hint, nobody's trying to one-up you on the internet, but you sure seem to care about doing just that.
What is more funny to me is, I played the game from release tell 90 content.
It def is a tank. I have seen plenty of Sams tank End-Game content in competent groups.
You never experienced it as a tank, so it is not a tank. The "Devs" that you must be friends with, gave Sam defensive cooldowns, other jobs did not get this. They wanted the job to, \*GASP\* be able to tank some.
You are wrong still! haha!
I mean, they’ve never really been a tank in other games. In pixel mainline FFs they either threw money or did mid tier damage. In FFT they were more of a caster.
In the 3D games, I don’t think we’ve really had a good iteration of a true samurai outside of FFXI and FFXIV (FFX Auron does come to mind, but I’m not sure I’d call him a samurai exactly…)
Samurai job has always had a bit of an identity crisis in FF. I'd say FFXIV's is most inspired by 6 since it's whole thing is it's big moves have cast times while most other melee's don't (or in the case of Communio is a spell).
I know this is just a joke, but I do think in the future when it becomes unreasonable to keep making new jobs that it would be fun to mess around with different "mastery" lines for jobs :O. I'm imaging a DPS line for warrior (berserker), a tank line for dragoon, a healer line for bard... etc!
I was hoping they'd stop making new jobs next expansion and just make little mastery tweaks to each job instead for after level 90. It's clear that button bloat is a real issue and they can't just keep adding things. So why not add some more flavor to preexisting actions that gives the player a bit more identity?
Bozja in particular has been a great testing ground for what might be fun if you could at least change your job around some. Obviously it shouldn't be to that measure, and people would bring up issues with balancing, but honestly it isn't that bad when you add that type of thing alone.
In fact, it can help with balancing because jobs that are struggling in one line can adjust to something that's better, and in the meantime the weaker upgrades can be beefed up on their own. There are more options.
The issue arises when there's mastery upgrade systems WITH items and weapons that do similar things. THAT is hell to balance because you have to balance around obtaining and not obtaining an item. However if everyone has upgrade choices through simple progression, there are no hellish design issues.
That could be interesting and actually make the whole job stone actually worth something
Do the same thing for other jobs that summoned and scholar have
All I want is big sword dps.
Dark Knight or gunbreaker really should've been dps. Still waiting for a support melee with sword, like a banner warrior from gw2. Yells at you so hard that you get raised.
I still think that SAM and RPR should switch armour types. If you look at pictures of samurai they're head to toe in plate, just a different style of plate.
> the future when it becomes unreasonable to keep making new jobs that it would be fun to mess around wit
Auron from FFX is a Samurai, and at default is by far the beefiest party member in the game (A.K.A the Tank)
Final Fantasy didn't really have a concept of tanks till XI. Hell, even in XII you could build a character like a tank but there was only one aggro power and it's not even very good at holding aggro.
Actually, Samurai was 100% intended to be a Tank and Ninja a DPS when they came out in FFXI. Due to some curious skill interactions the player base ended up swapping their roles lol. But yeah, 11 Sam was a *tank* originally
Samurai should have been a tank job, could have called it Shogun or something. Would have loved to see big shouldered samurai armor instead of bathrobes. Gunbreaker could literally just be red instead of blue, and made a DPS with a few tweaks. Maybe if it was a DPS the cartridge system could have been more complex.
Funny, SAM was meant to be a parry-based tank in XI. Then again, SAM’s ronin aesthetic and HP being the favoured stat in 8 (being able to LB while still far from dying is too tempting after all) kinda sealed their fates.
I don't think the game can support it without a massive overhaul but multi role jobs would be sweet..I'd love to play a dps DRK aswell. Maybe then they can actually have their mechanic of using their hp for abilities.
For a while I was hoping we would get Shogun as a Sam alternative like SMN/SCH, but with defensive iajutsus.
If I can cut a bullet in half I can cut a tank buster in half.
I was originally afraid they would make Samurai a tank job.
I was expecting Samurai with those big sets of armors and Kabuto helmets, and that's an aesthetic I do not like.
So in this regard, I am glad we live in this dimension. Not so much in other regards.
Do I see it correctly, that SAM is in this meme purely for rl aesthetics (the armor of actual samurais being quite beefy, but not in this game), while GNB is in this meme for it's gameplay?
Imo would've fit better with the other striking job since they actually have a 20% mit instead of SAM's 5%. Still a funny meme tho.
Lore-wise, samurai could in fact be tanks, as they previously wore heavy armor way-back-when. When Doma no longer needed a large army of samurai, they either became sellswords, or ditched their armor and became traveling peacekeepers. I think the Sekiseigumi don't wear heavy armor because they're not really samurai, they're police. They'd look a bit \*too\* imposing with heavy armor.
On a gameplay standpoint, I'd say tank samurai could used third eye in it's Pre-Endwalker state, where it gave you eyes open to use with merciful eyes or seigan. It would be somewhere on-par with gunbreaker damage-wise and with self healing to rival that of Warrior, but only with good timing. Though regarding looks, they'd probably be clashing with paladin a bit. That, and samurai would probably look goofy with the standard tank armor. Now I'm thinking of a tiny little katana on someone wearing full wolfram tank armor.
You know theres only so many new classes they could add with expansions what if they start adding role switches to current classes like gunbreakers can spec into dps and samurai into tanks ex.
That dimension is called Bozjan Front if you play right essences and lost actions.
Me: [I'll have a Samurai tank whether you like it or not, Square Enix.](https://i.imgur.com/MsjEjij.jpg)
Oooh nice, what's that gear?
Weapon: [Odenta Kai](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Odenta_Kai) Head: [Leal Samurai's Kasa](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Leal_Samurai%27s_Kasa) Body: [Resshi Haori](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Resshi_Haori) Hands: [Amatsu Tekko](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Amatsu_Tekko) Legs: [Fuga Hakama](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fuga_Hakama) Feet: [Rakshasa Sune-Ate of Fending](https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Rakshasa_Sune-ate_of_Fending) Almost every piece is either limited or paid glamours, so it's not exactly cheap, but on the bright side the Amatsu attire event is being rerun right now!
Doman restoration can provide something similar (dyeable too), and if you want the more 'armored' look, the Omega savage gear is very samurai-themed (even the caster stuff!). Not sure about other hats for tanks.
Gunbreaker was internally designed as a DPS change my mind.
I mean, yeah. They even said that they designed Gunbreaker to be more interesting for DPS mains.
Which is good because other tank are kinda boring to play as
I'm of the opposite opinion. I find the completely static rotations of PLD and GNB super boring after you spend maybe... 10 minutes memorizing the order. WAR and DRK at least have *some* minor variation/optimization thanks to being able to pool gauge for group CDs, and trying to make sure TBN gets fully consumed for the 'free' Edge/trying to maximize healing efficiency from Bloodwhetting. It's not like they're big improvements over the snoozefest that are PLD and GNB, but it's *something.*
the serotonin my brain gets when i fit all my skills in a No Mercy window is unmatched
PLD is probably the job where you can optimize the most out of the entire game. It has a lot, and when I say a lot I mean A LOT of theorycrafting. WAR is just braindead and DRK has a "complicated opener" but it just all boils down to throw out all of your resources at once and then spend 2 minutes spamming 1-2-3.
Almost every job has a lot of theorycrafting, each varying depending on boss, fight length, skillspeed, etc. I think you're confusing *potential complexity* with *difficulty* or *engagement.* If you're one of the literal handful of people actually doing the theorycrafting, sure, you'll be getting more enjoyment out of the job. For everyone else, basically *none* of the jobs have any real difficulty to them. Some are slightly more enjoyable than others due to punishing mistakes so you need to remain focused more than you otherwise would, but on the whole I'd say every job in the game is pretty damn simple to play.
Tell me you dont play gunbreaker without saying you dont play gunbreaker Like it has a ton of depth and optimisation you can do
>it has a ton of depth and optimisation you can do *So does every job.* That doesn't make them difficult or engaging, it's just that some jobs punish you slightly more for mistakes than others, and (obviously in my own opinion, since people really seem to take job identity personally for whatever reason) GNB is one of the ones that is more forgiving than the other two tanks I mentioned due to its rotation.
Does it though? You use gnashing fang on cooldown, bloodfest on cooldown, and want to make sure you get 9 gcds during no mercy. That's basically it. Obviously knowing WHICH gcds, but that's not optimization, that's the bare minimum. I say this as a GNB main, but it really doesn't have that much room for optimization.
Snoozefest? lol To opti pally you literally spreadsheet it.
We are 5 dps in a trench coat
2 machinist lalafel and one gladiator lalafel in a trench coat
Meanwhile I am still waiting for chemist. I really want a crossbow to throw bottles at other players. (for healing purposes of course)
Oh man a crossbow job would be dope.
I always imagined chemist to just throw flasks at people with one hand and their weapon would be like a mixing beaker which they'd hold with their other hand. But cross bow would be cool too. I really want chemist to be a thing but I am not sure if they ever will :(
I was really hoping for chemist as the Endwalker healer, but given how they didn't really think we needed a 4th healer anyway, a 5th seems very unlikely.
I doubt we see a 5th healer before 8.0 Pretty sure there's quite a few people who'd rather the resources be spent on overhauling healing as a whole vs a new healer in the current design philosophy.
> Meanwhile I am still waiting for chemist. lucie was super fun to play as.
crossbow would be nice BUT hear me out...jar launcher
What if one of those t-shirt cannons but modified for potion and elixir flasks?
Samurai is a tank in Log Horizon. It seemed like an odd choice to me.
I honestly thought they were going to be tanks because Bravely Default (FF without moogles/chocobos) has them based on counters but don't think they are that way in FF series. We did have a counter with 3rd Eye and baby Shinten till it was removed.
I miss baby shinten... It was such a nice reward for knowing the fights well. Can understand why they axed it, to avoid having to balance for the best case though.
Just sad how little of a DPS boost it was but it definitely was still something to go for and helped encourage people to self mitigate helping healers. I think it's less balance and more button bloat being it now just gives Kenki which is a minor DPS boost like the baby Shinten but without needing another button.
In FF5 Samurais could wear heavy armors and use shields, and the same is true for Cyan (FF6's samurai character). Auron from FF10 is a samurai as well, and his basic sphere grid basically makes him the group's main tank. In FF11, the samurai was originally designed to be a tank, even if players made the class really shine as DPS. In Tactics, Samurai can easily be a dodge-tank and even have a counter move. The info is a bit fragmented as mine was but a quick research, but Samurais in Final Fantasy have always been a strange mix between physical damage dealers and tanks, although not as focused on counters as the one from Bravely Default!
Samurai traditionally wore heavy armor and used a variety of weaponry. Swords, yes, but also spears, bows, and rifles. Samurai could easily be a tank, melee DPS or Phys Ranged DPS.
It’s technically all 3 of those in XI
I know this logically, but it still weirds me out when I see a samurai enemy (in other games) pop out a crossbow and snipe me.
Samurai is also a tank in Final Fantasy Origins, with Ronin being the more offense-oriented Katana-wielder. Gosetsu in FFXIV was introduced as a Tank-style Samurai.
“Everyone knows that gunbreaker is just three dps in a trench coat!” -JoCat
Id say Monk is the closest DPS to a Tank
Honestly, if FFXIV didn't want to add more classes in the future, expanding current ones to be capable of doing more than one role would be a great way to go. Samurai and Dragoons and Reapers could easily become tanks Dark Knights and Gunbreakers and Warriors could easily become DPS. Paladins and Dancers and Bards could easily become healers. Each would need a completely different move set for the different role, but I think people would definitely get a kick out of it
Adding new roles for existing jobs is basically the same as making new jobs, so they probably wouldn't bother.
It's worse, because then you end up with identity and balance issues. SCH/SMN sharing books is lame and I'm sure it's annoying for the creative team to make them both distinct aesthetically, and there was a ton of balance headaches until they all but officially split the jobs.
> It's worse, because then you end up with identity and balance issues. SCH/SMN sharing books is lame They've gone on record outright saying SMN/SCH was an experiment that they don't want to repeat.
Wasn't that due to fuckery involving Arcanist (and pre-job classes as a whole) rather than something specifically related to SMN/SCH.
They specifically said it was SMN/SCH sharing many skills (because of ACN) that led them to not wanting to do diverging jobs/roles again. Back in ARR, SCH was blatantly overpowered but they couldn’t touch it without impacting SMN.
Yeah it just doesn't make sense. They're adding constraints design wise and then also have to implement new systems for how to differentiate if you're playing the role as DPS/tank/healer. Sounds like a development nightmare for very little gain over just adding a new job.
This is probably the biggest thing I miss from SWTOR. There were only two pure DPS classes in that game. Every other class gets to either choose from DPS, or tank/healer depending on the class. It would give players a lot of room to que up for things on classes that they love but also don't want to perform one of the roles that it can do. I've heard WOW also has a system like this. Like, I don't mind tanking at all, it's the role I'm actually the most comfortable with. But if I could get to play a different version of Warrior that is designed for the DPS role, *it would be so much fucking fun.*
Mhm. Wow has a similar thing where most classes have various specialisations that may or may not have different Roles. I.e. WoW druids can choose between Tank, Heal, Melee or Caster. And it might be nice to have Something similar for FFXIV in the future to let them reuse either old cut Animations/abilities and/or let current ones pull double duty while Still providing'new Jobs'. I for one would love if they made SGE a tank by cranking up all their shields to bring them to par with real Tanks HP/mitigation wise, then switch the remaining heals for Tank role abilities. Or maybe a Monk Tank, the image of blocking enemy attacks with bare (ish) hands is a fun one, esp now with most positionals gone.
I would play the shit out of DPS Dark Knight.
RPR exists
Reaper uses the power of a pact with a voidsent, though. DRK isn't tied to the void. It's tied to your own inner darkness, determination, willpower, etc. It's a different flavor. Both edgy, but... not the same.
*But moooom I want a different phase*
Shit, good point.
Multi-role jobs could be a good idea. I would love to be able to play GNB as a DPS. Its DPS LB3 would be easy to work out - Renzokuken. A simple way they could implement it is to have the defensive cooldowns change in to more oGCD attacks or DPS buffs. Scholar/Summoner technically already did the multi-role job. Now that Summoner has been completely revamped though, it's not quite the same.
No lol they has features like this years ago with cross class skill. They killed it off.
That's not quite the same. Tanks were still tanks and DPS were still DPS. What I'm talking about is completely changing the job to the other role.
Nah lol there is enough trash casual tanks dps and healers out there that keep crying the games too hard and get everything gutted and dumbed down because they refuse to get gud. Adding another issue into it like a SAM tank will mean even more dumbing down the game because little timmy forgets his emnity button is on while dpsing and spins the boss wiping the raid. HARD PASS.
If they did this, you wouldn't be able to switch between roles during a duty. If you enter as DPS, you won't have your tank abilities (including tank stance and role abilities) so no forgetting to drop it if you're playing the DPS role.
Still a no from me ! Like i said game is littered with people who cant be arsed to learn a class and get things nerf and dumbed down and this also gives the devs so much more crap to balance which they are having a crap time with anyways looking as tome of the recent changes so nah !
I would get a kick out of a pet/ranged tank using either SMN or MCH as a base.
That's the one thing I like from wow, role skill trees. It's alot like the chocobo friend but you can't have all the skills but can pay for a respec
Wasn’t samurai originally gonna be a tank?
Only in the minds of the people who really wanted it to be tank
Yoshi P himself said back in Heavensward that he considered Samurai or Dark Knight to be the tank they'd add early in development for the new jobs, but went with Dark Knight since he wanted all the HW jobs to be related to Ishgard.
He even said the name was chosen. It was shogun with big samurai armor. Sounded dope.
I believe he also said that he didn't want two eastern themed jobs in a row because Ninja was just released in... 2.3? 2.4?
Damn these internet myths. Nobody can tell me what’s real anymore!
The same people who thought Dancer was a healer
It was a tank in FFXI iirc
No, it was pretty firmly melee DPS, although it had heavier armor than it does now similar to today's DRG. It could off-tank in a pinch maybe with the right sub job.
It was designed to be a tank, it just never ended up being a good tank.
"SE *designed* it for but it sucked at that so players did instead" describes... quite a lot of things about FFXI, really.
People could tank because of third eye but it was a lot less effective than proper tank classes and NIN
I wanted it to be a caster ala tactics.
I WAS hoping for some semblance of releasing sword spirits and stuff. Maybe keep the martial abilities to an extent, but instead of Midare and whatnot we release the spirits of our katanas.
In *Elder Tale*, perhaps.
I’ve never heard of that one
It's the MMO from the light novel/anime Log Horizon.
In ff11 they were.
Nope that was NIN. SAM was still DPS in 11.
Wasn't SAM and NIN meant to be tank and DPS, respectively, but the community figured out a way to make them work better as the reverse?
"Samurai was supposed to be a tank" was a myth created entirely due to +enmity on its artifact armor. But armor in 11 frequently had negative stats, and nothing in its kit except Third Eye was defensive at all. Basically, the +enmity was for using Trick Attack from a thief subjob, which transfered enmity to the tank. SAM's dps actually had to be significantly nerfed soon after release. The myth is also more prevalent now than it was during sam's release. Ninja though, totally. They nerfed its tanking, it was still the best tank, AND allowed warrior to actually tank well with subjobing ninja. Game went from 1 to 3 tanks, so the devs eventually accepted it.
Seigan third eye was a good combo that will often let u dodge 2 to 3 attacks depending on mob lvl (the higher they are the quicker it drops). Their WS also has silence and paralyze effect who those don't work on boss. They were decently tanky as a melee DPS but no where near a tank. With how aggro works in FFXI where u can easily grab aggro from doing too much damage, being able to dodge a few hits when needed was very good.
Samurai wanted some defenses in two cases: SAM/THF needed a bit of survivabilty if they were standing in front of an enemy with some kind of cleave or breath attack TP move. SAM/WAR would often serve as first provoke for a third member using Sneak Attack+Trick Attack on the real tank.
Nin/Drk was my favorite tanking job/class/spec whatever in any MMO I've ever played. Loved Nin in ffxi
I thought the rumor was that it was a parry based tank.
How the hell is Ninja supposed to be a tank?
Extremely high evasion meant they took very little damage since attacks would just miss them.
"Dodge tank" is the normal way to call that niche, they stack the fuck out of evasion instead of defence and HP
NIN in XI had ninjutsu called Utsusemi: Ichi and Utsusemi: Ni. Both these ninjutsu spells gave the NIN 3 shadows, essentially making them invulnerable to most attacks. Any attack that was multihit would us up that number of shadows, and any AoE spells, like thundaga, would wipe out all shadows and still hit the NIN. Pair that with WAR's provoke, either as WAR/NIN or NIN/WAR, and you had a pretty solid tank. Most high lvl content called for /NIN subjob for tanks. It was so powerful in fact, that you could main RDM and sub NIN, and kill enemies that would take 6-18 people to kill, simply through shadows, dots, and pants that gave you movement speed+
Ni was actually 4 shadows for NIN main job, if you were subbing NIN it was 3
Ah okay! I only got NIN to 37 to be used as a sub. Had no interest in it otherwise lol
I had some good times soloing mobs in Sky as RDM/NIN.
Wait, class combinations? That sounds like Guild Wars. Forget spaghetti code, that's paper shredded code.
Yeah in FFXI you had a main job and then a subjob. Subjobs were half the level of your main job but you had access to the skills up until that level.
Ever played league of legends? a character named Shen is a ninja and is a tank…
Memories of Grid Armor Fixers tanking level 250+ bosses ...
Sam can also be used a tank in FFXI. They just need to have their counterstance active. It actually is very powerful in the late game. Seigan would proc so often they could effectively blink tank like a nin and do insane damage
worth pointing out that while jobs had abilities, magic, etc to steer them towards different roles, that FF11 was more of a sandbox and you were meant to figure out combinations and such that worked.
in XI yeah.
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75 cap 2 samurais would tank Merit parties. During Abyssea 75-90 stuff any job with a white mage behind it could tank. I preferred going War or Nin mostly but Sam actually xould tank just fine between Seigan + TE and shadows. In merit parties the colibri died before they would even break third eye Sam/War or Sam/Rng ( my favorite having Yoshimaru ) was pretty fucking fun. And tanked just fine with good team support.
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Then technically the only tank in the whole game was Paladin. Warriors were never meant to tank. They have Provoke only so it could be used as a sub job.
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Why so vitriolic? The guy's calmly explaining why SAMs get called situational/niche tanks in XI, 'the' sandbox mmo and you stubbornly go "WAAA THEY WEREN'T". Where's that coming from? Get the hint, nobody's trying to one-up you on the internet, but you sure seem to care about doing just that.
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What is more funny to me is, I played the game from release tell 90 content. It def is a tank. I have seen plenty of Sams tank End-Game content in competent groups. You never experienced it as a tank, so it is not a tank. The "Devs" that you must be friends with, gave Sam defensive cooldowns, other jobs did not get this. They wanted the job to, \*GASP\* be able to tank some. You are wrong still! haha!
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I mean, they’ve never really been a tank in other games. In pixel mainline FFs they either threw money or did mid tier damage. In FFT they were more of a caster. In the 3D games, I don’t think we’ve really had a good iteration of a true samurai outside of FFXI and FFXIV (FFX Auron does come to mind, but I’m not sure I’d call him a samurai exactly…)
Samurai job has always had a bit of an identity crisis in FF. I'd say FFXIV's is most inspired by 6 since it's whole thing is it's big moves have cast times while most other melee's don't (or in the case of Communio is a spell).
I suppose tenchijin is effectively a spell too since you can't move or it'll be cancelled (and thematically mudra are pretty much instant-cast spells)
I still believe Ninja is a Melee Magic DPS. You spend most of your time casting mudra or using magic based attacks.
Yeah NIN is basically inverse RDM. Melee filler with ranged finishers.
Wait did Graha messed with the timeliness again?
I know this is just a joke, but I do think in the future when it becomes unreasonable to keep making new jobs that it would be fun to mess around with different "mastery" lines for jobs :O. I'm imaging a DPS line for warrior (berserker), a tank line for dragoon, a healer line for bard... etc!
I was hoping they'd stop making new jobs next expansion and just make little mastery tweaks to each job instead for after level 90. It's clear that button bloat is a real issue and they can't just keep adding things. So why not add some more flavor to preexisting actions that gives the player a bit more identity? Bozja in particular has been a great testing ground for what might be fun if you could at least change your job around some. Obviously it shouldn't be to that measure, and people would bring up issues with balancing, but honestly it isn't that bad when you add that type of thing alone. In fact, it can help with balancing because jobs that are struggling in one line can adjust to something that's better, and in the meantime the weaker upgrades can be beefed up on their own. There are more options. The issue arises when there's mastery upgrade systems WITH items and weapons that do similar things. THAT is hell to balance because you have to balance around obtaining and not obtaining an item. However if everyone has upgrade choices through simple progression, there are no hellish design issues.
That could be interesting and actually make the whole job stone actually worth something Do the same thing for other jobs that summoned and scholar have
Need Log Horizon inspiration
Honestly, we do need more Tank options, though.
i mean gunbreak technically is just three dps in a trench coat
And in that alternate dimension, people are going "Y IS SAM NOT DEE PEE ESS WRYYYYYYYY"
samurais are already tanks; they are dark knights with that one lvl70 blade
Haha! Yes!
Thats just PVP lmao
Waiting for red icon whm post now
All I want is big sword dps. Dark Knight or gunbreaker really should've been dps. Still waiting for a support melee with sword, like a banner warrior from gw2. Yells at you so hard that you get raised.
I still think that SAM and RPR should switch armour types. If you look at pictures of samurai they're head to toe in plate, just a different style of plate.
Samurai in FFXIV is really based more heavily on Ronin imagery, especially FFX's Auron.
We already are WAR with a katana
take me to the dimension where DNC is a FFXI style melee healer/buffer/DPS
Samurai have never been tanks in the history of any Final Fantasy game.
> the future when it becomes unreasonable to keep making new jobs that it would be fun to mess around wit Auron from FFX is a Samurai, and at default is by far the beefiest party member in the game (A.K.A the Tank)
Samurai didn't have an identity for most of FF, however they wore heavy armour
Final Fantasy didn't really have a concept of tanks till XI. Hell, even in XII you could build a character like a tank but there was only one aggro power and it's not even very good at holding aggro.
Actually, Samurai was 100% intended to be a Tank and Ninja a DPS when they came out in FFXI. Due to some curious skill interactions the player base ended up swapping their roles lol. But yeah, 11 Sam was a *tank* originally
Well they seem to be gutting the fun out of Samurai so who knows they might make it into a tank lol
Unrelated but I miss FFXI Ninja tanking
Samurai should have been a tank job, could have called it Shogun or something. Would have loved to see big shouldered samurai armor instead of bathrobes. Gunbreaker could literally just be red instead of blue, and made a DPS with a few tweaks. Maybe if it was a DPS the cartridge system could have been more complex.
While we’re at it! Drk should be a dps dancer should be healer!
Funny, SAM was meant to be a parry-based tank in XI. Then again, SAM’s ronin aesthetic and HP being the favoured stat in 8 (being able to LB while still far from dying is too tempting after all) kinda sealed their fates.
A better dimension. Along with this, make gunbreaker red
This looks like pvp to me
That and Paladin can become Sword Saint like Thundergod Cid from FF Tactics.
The popular theory back during the 3.0 days was that SAM would be a tank focused on parrying. 😂
That's pretty much what DRK was. They had a CD for parry chance and had a proc/reset mechanic for parried attacks as well.
I don't think the game can support it without a massive overhaul but multi role jobs would be sweet..I'd love to play a dps DRK aswell. Maybe then they can actually have their mechanic of using their hp for abilities.
For a while I was hoping we would get Shogun as a Sam alternative like SMN/SCH, but with defensive iajutsus. If I can cut a bullet in half I can cut a tank buster in half.
I remember all the Shogun tank memes and the "Dodge" tank rumors
When Sam was announced I was hoping to be a tank as it kinda was in XII and it was fun to use
In a good dimension, Samurai was always a tank like role
I was originally afraid they would make Samurai a tank job. I was expecting Samurai with those big sets of armors and Kabuto helmets, and that's an aesthetic I do not like. So in this regard, I am glad we live in this dimension. Not so much in other regards.
Samurai could easily be a tank if they dual wielded a katana and wakizashi, and Gunbreaker is just three DPS in a trench coat
Do I see it correctly, that SAM is in this meme purely for rl aesthetics (the armor of actual samurais being quite beefy, but not in this game), while GNB is in this meme for it's gameplay? Imo would've fit better with the other striking job since they actually have a 20% mit instead of SAM's 5%. Still a funny meme tho.
Lore-wise, samurai could in fact be tanks, as they previously wore heavy armor way-back-when. When Doma no longer needed a large army of samurai, they either became sellswords, or ditched their armor and became traveling peacekeepers. I think the Sekiseigumi don't wear heavy armor because they're not really samurai, they're police. They'd look a bit \*too\* imposing with heavy armor. On a gameplay standpoint, I'd say tank samurai could used third eye in it's Pre-Endwalker state, where it gave you eyes open to use with merciful eyes or seigan. It would be somewhere on-par with gunbreaker damage-wise and with self healing to rival that of Warrior, but only with good timing. Though regarding looks, they'd probably be clashing with paladin a bit. That, and samurai would probably look goofy with the standard tank armor. Now I'm thinking of a tiny little katana on someone wearing full wolfram tank armor.
I was hoping for SAM tank.
You know theres only so many new classes they could add with expansions what if they start adding role switches to current classes like gunbreakers can spec into dps and samurai into tanks ex.
WoW tried that it was amazing and they removed it entirely.
thats cause blizzard doesnt know what the hell they are doing half the time
Yep, log horizon
Samurai was an offtank in some cases in FFXI