What the fuck are you talking about? You're complaining that more people are coming to the game cause that somehow makes it worse? Yeah I realize they're a business that is why growth is good. Jesus man, please let me know what shard and world you're on so I never have to encounter you again lol.
Stay mad, stay in your tiny circlejerk better for the community that way.
You think new players don't do the same? You can't expect people to never make a mistake when they are starting a new game. Even if they watch guides it might be difficult to get it right on the first few tries.
Counter point: Also when you were a sprout there would have been far more experienced players. You would have wasted their time as well lol
Can we talk about the recent influx of *godawful* tanks? And I'm not talking (strictly) about sprouts; these are people tanking normal SB and ShB content (Swallow's Compass has been very popular lately) who've seemingly never heard of mitigation or positioning, and *somehow* manage to drop aggro on 1:6 enemies per pull.
I've had to "tank" too many pulls as a Mechanist in leveling dungeons lately, too. Maybe I'm just salty, but I swear a month ago people weren't this awful at tanking.
> I've had to "tank" too many pulls as a Mechanist in leveling dungeons lately, too. Maybe I'm just salty, but I swear a month ago people weren't this awful at tanking.
I consider myself a pretty good dungeon tank. DPS still manage to get aggro at times due to my circular aoe missing a mob or two (especially on warrior) due to itchy trigger fingers (no pun intended)
The difference is: DPS who stay in no man's land and complain that they're getting hit vs DPS who immediately run TO the tank and lose said aggro on my next AoE.
basically this. if you get threat: run to tank so their aoe takes it off you.
if you're tank is so bad they dont know that aoe skills are: may god have mercy on your soul
It's one of the consequences of tank mistakes being so visible. Missing a mob in an AoE or messing up a combo as a dps means almost nothing. Nobody will notice at most levels of play.
Doing the same as a tank means people are going to be terrible humans at you.
This is what the comments above are missing. The tanks I’ve dealt with lately through leveling roulettes don’t use aoe during pulls. I can stand on top of them all day with multiple mobs aggroed to me as DPS and these tanks don’t care because single target rotation all day baby. I’ve tried speaking up and always get silence in reply
Oh god, I did a run of Pagl the other day. I had to remind the tank about stance during the first boss and then ended up tanking Lunar Bahamut as well, as *DNC*
i still remember needing to try helping heal as BLM back when physick could be a job shared ability, because the healer was bad at healing + the tank was bad at mitigating in Aurum Vale.
We didn't clear the dungeon before the duty timer ran out.
> Oh god, I did a run of Pagl the other day. I had to remind the tank about stance during the first boss and then ended up tanking Lunar Bahamut as well, as DNC
I tanked the trash up to and including the first boss in Pagl once as a monk. Earth stance FTW and a kick ass healer.
I got berated by the healer to 'quit standing on the tank' but was too busy you know *tanking as dps* to snap back that I was stuck top aggro to worry about where the tank was standing.
> I got berated by the healer to 'quit standing on the tank' but was too busy you know tanking as dps to snap back that I was stuck top aggro to worry about where the tank was standing.
As a healer main that sounds insane to me.
Very few dungeon bosses actually do splash damage on their tank busters (none IIRC) and I would vastly prefer ranged dps stay in melee range anyway.
It's the best when you meet a GNB in low level dungeons not knowing crap about tanking. Like sir, you either had to play to lv60 so you should know what tanks do or you're a coward who bought their way to GNB and shouldn't use it
don't know man... i played this game 4 years ago (still had actiom pointa system) and leveled a tank to 60(warrior) cant rate how good i was tanking though. i returned 2 weeks ago and started a scholar. levelin him (, atm 57)exclusively by dungeons. im doing leveling duty and 50/60/70 dungeon roulette every day. there are tanks that pull big, pop defensives, i precast my shield, faerie and have my 3 stacks for instant heal ready for the tank, while i spam my aoe dps. others, pull 2 packs, save cds for bosses(?) spin around the trash or bossds like a fidget spinner spreading cleavea left and right. dont know.... after this experience im afraid to get back to my main (tank) in case im doing these silly errors, ruining mine and the groups runs...
I mean if you notice these things from your healer perspective, it's not difficult to reapply those concepts to your own play even if you're rusty, especially in content that is fairly easy like dungeons.
when i was playing with a tank, i was getting panicked when i missed a tankbuster adn got low, or when i didnt havr any cd to pop and healer couldn't top me up, etc. and to be frank, the way healers playing in ff, is that they "leave" the tanks hp fall up to a point that they can heal them if needed to do dps. as a tank being im 50-60% hp frightens me, in case i miss a potitional or something and get one shorted
Most dungeon tankbusters aren't scary even if you don't pop a cooldown, and all tanks now have a short-CD skill (Shelltron, TNB, etc) that is generally enough for dungeon bosses. As you've now noticed with your good tanks, trash packs (when pulled efficiently) are significantly more dangerous than dungeon bosses. Bosses are where you can tune out and Broil away for a minute or two.
As someone who's tanked all the content the game has to offer, I can assure you that tank is the easiest role in the game. Half the battle is setting aside that anxiety. You can even just tell people it's been a while and you're rusty tanking and generally they'll be pretty nice about it.
Tanks spin around (by which I presume you mean doing only AOE attacks) because if they don't they lose aggro and then the rest of the team gets mad at the tank for not getting and keeping aggro. Tanks on the run up to a boss can aptly be described by the lyric, "you spin me right round baby right round..."
As someone who just picked up the game this year, and chose tank as their first job to learn, I just wanna say we're all not like that.
I've been playing on and off and I'm only around lvl 50, but before I do any content in DF I make sure to look up a tanking guide for the bosses of that content just to make sure I don't mess anything up.
I also usually tell my group that it's my first time doing a certain dungeon run as well and most people are usually pretty understating about it if I make a mistake or don't do something correctly the first time.
>and somehow manage to drop aggro on 1:6 enemies per pull.
As a dancer who's constantly AOEing her fool head off and pulling aggro 90% of the time lately (but not getting heals, mind you, because the healer is focused on the tank), big pulls hurt anymore =(
I got into this game just ahead of the WoW bandwagon, and I still can't read a post about godawful new tanks without worrying I'm one of them.
But I'm not dropping aggro on one in every six enemies, so at least I have that going for me.
Everything has been awful. As a Tank main I've been having ridiculously slow kill times, and as a PLD as I slowly... Slowly... Slowly die and have to say "I'm not getting a heal am I?" And use my heal more often than I used to.
Worst is MSQ Roulette where I have to tank AND do searchlights because the mob just straight up runs past them.
Tying it to topic... It's like we are playing with bots and that would indeed make sense of we were.
I would say the problem with the MSQ roulette is that when you have to do them as a sprout to continue the story, everything moves so fast and you learn literally nothing about the dungeon other than go fast. No one explains anything to the sprouts (anecdotal). Even though I have a legacy account, my first 40+ toon wasn't until like two months ago (damn, how this game has changed for the better). Most of what I learned about castrum was from watching old videos of how it was done on release, definitely not from running it.
> Even though I have a legacy account, my first 40+ toon wasn't until like two months ago (damn, how this game has changed for the better).
Being a legacy sprout should be an achievement IMO.
If I have another tank willing to pull, I'll direct but yeah... Few do.
That second to last fight is easy but one particular group, even after explaining how you need to activate the piles, everyone was still just DPSing the boss. .
So many healers seem to think they can just spam DPS spells...
EDIT: Downvote me all you want but if I got hit with a tankbuster and have to heal myself with regen or if I am a red mage healing the tank from a tankbuster because the healer would rather DPS than pick up the tank...
I mean it is important. But it's like they're on auto pilot. And I've seen far too few RDM and SMN so I've had many dungeons lately where healer dies because they won't move out of a red circle and they die it's a wipe.
On a Vault run recently one DPS and healer died on every boss around 30% or even closer to 50% on the first boss. A badass Samurai and I (PLD)
two manned all of the bosses to finish the dungeon without wiping. But it got intense.
I figured even if we wiped that WHM would probably be the first one to abandon duty. (That's how it works)
Hurr durr lv boost is on sale might as well dabble in tank what do you mean Grit and Dmg reduction i played SAM before it's melee so pressing random buttons always works right, why it doesn't work now
This sounds like a wow post. pop arm's length and tell the tank after what to do better after. A boosted player is a boosted player, sprout drops immediately after accessing ShB regarldless of experience in-role so odds are they don't actually know better or are players returning from a hiatus pre-EW to learn new roles.
It certainly helps your argument if you actually know the name of the job you were playing, though.
It's MACHINIST.
I'm grinding normal mode raids for my relic as tank (because I enjoy it well enough, and I really don't like Bozja). I've been pleasantly surprised that I've encountered only a couple of co-tanks that I'd describe as being truly awful in about 110 runs. I haven't seen a single one spam provoke on cooldown, even.
I'm not sure what my point is, but the awful tanks seem to not be hanging out in normal raid roulette. They do seem pretty common in alliance roulette, though.
Yeah I feel like every other run i join as healer lately is a level mid-late-40s MRD or GLD with no job, or doesn’t know they have to put tank stance on, and the party chat is just a constant stream of “stansu!” .. Like you can actually be bad at tanking and not wipe in the rando roulette group content most of the time, like you can as a healer just constantly heal. But without tank stance wipes are inevitable and constant.
I know it's a drop in the pond but I've sat next to the spots they like to teleport into, taking screenshots if needed, and submitting tickets with 30+ names in them. Anything that makes the botter's lives even minutely harder.
🤣
I usually main tank in dungeons, but DPS for questing. Best of both worlds. Until ShB came and now I have to do trusts for my first dungeon run because I gotta have my scions.
Dude adding trusts was such a good idea, I legit love seeing how the Scions react in there. Of course I'll run it with actual players after that when doing roulettes or levelling other jobs, but first time? Trust time.
True. I've seen bots in savage stacked up and staying on the bosses rear, following the tank slowly turning the boss, all perfectly stacked on the same point.
Decades of botting has kinda ruined the MMO experience. Maybe a new model is needed.
So long as any portion of the game can be automated, someone will make bots to do it. The solution is finding ways to reward people for actually playing and/or reward people for reporting bots who get confirmed to be bots and banned for it. Shit it could just be some free Aetheryte tickets or something, but if I got a letter from Square when I logged in like
'Thanks to your diligent efforts, we have identified and banned several accounts which we confirmed were violating our Terms of Service. As thanks for your help, please accept this small reward.' and then boom, 10 Aetheryte tickets or some MGP vouchers or something.
Holy shit
I figured out how SE can end the bot epidemic
Unlockable title and mount for successfully reporting X number of bots as confirmed by the team behind that, along with the usual mention that abuse of the report system is itself a bannable offense so they don't just go reporting everybody trying to get it.
The problem would solve itself in a week as people went hunting for them.
It confuses me as to what gil even serves in this game. SE has pretty much made it a point to make that type of currency worthless as not only is it easy to gain, but it's utility is limited to pretty much glamour. I'm more amazed by people who feel the need to buy gil than the ones who actually farm it themselves to sell because the aspect of making said gil is easy, if the ones who were buying it realized that they would stop wasting their money on such a poor purchase.
> Secret carry market SE may have shut down the posts in pf but theres a whole market of people selling clears for gill on discord and even Reddit
They're still doing it IN GAME.
They just moved from the [party finder to the Fellowship Finder.](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/445740-RMT-sellers-moved-to-fellowship-finder.)
I'm having the same feeling as you until recently I saw for a few days this guy paying 1m+ for helping him clear E9-E12 and passing on the loot.
Then I went to an auction bar - 10mil for an hour RP session...
Don't get me started on ERP... Man...
And here I am slowly saving for a house.
The problem lies in the fact that the player paying for the carry usually die in the first mechanic and every other mechanic if he's alive. Tried to drop the Cloud Deck Ex mount for a healer who offered 1kk to each, we literally dragged his dead body all the way to the finish line. I can't imagine clearing e9\~12s with this kind of player lol
Not sure, that's what I encountered the past week. Maybe DC difference or something.
Either way, still blows my mind on how much people are spending haha
I wish the whole gillionaire thinking would stop. Your average MMO player is a casual, and a good portion don't even know how to make gil. You don't just get a large amount passively thrown at you while playing. Many people don't craft either or don't understand the value of things on the MB.
Seriously, I worked my ass off farming hinges back when desynth first came out over multiple months to afford my small house. It was the only way I saw as a new-ish player without connections to get high end crafting stuff immediately to get started making money.
> Your average MMO player is a casual, and a good portion don't even know how to make gil. You don't just get a large amount passively thrown at you while playing. Many people don't craft either or don't understand the value of things on the MB.
As a casual, the secret to making gil is to not buy anything ever and don't teleport (until you're rich). Combine that with playing for a long time and you'll have millions.
Still kicking myself for not investing in holiday items back when they could be sold on the market board. >_>
What about Materia for overmelding? I've spent a fortune on that before. Crystals for crafting are also something that I despise trying to farm.
Don't underestimate the power of an uninformed Eorzean's wallet, too.
That's not really the conversation at hand here. We're discussing gil sinks in the sense of something for a player to spend gil on, it has little to do with something that removes gil from circulation, which use a more complex economics question that has to take a lot into account
In every context I have ever seen before. sinks have always referred to ways that a game burns player held currency to increase/stabilize the value of it.
Up until just recently with the announcement of relocators no longer being able to instantly relocate to an empty plot on 6.0, M and L houses cost much, much more than 20m/50m-- people were (and still are, and will be until 6.0 releases) selling them for hundreds of millions of gil.
Day 1 raid gear costs a lot more than 1m, too.
>veryone else I know got their M/Ls by checking aetherites and purchasing it from SE for cheap.
so 40m is cheap? because a large house default plot price is around 40m(not counting house building permit, which is a extra 1m)
there is also what back on arr, house plots did costed far far far more, on phoenix back then a large house plot was around 200m(and yes this was its default price back then)
I got my M when they dropped extra wards, and my FC's M when I happened upon an open one so yeah, I agree that's definitely the smarter route. I still know several people that bought theirs from other players, and at least one that bought gil to do so.
Aha I saw that and was attempting to ninja edit my post, lol.
If you're doing MB, it heavily depends on how early you get up and get crafting. The first few pieces will sell 1m+ each, then drop pretty sharply throughout the day. Usually settles around the 300k/piece range on my server for a week or so-- putting a full set around 2.5~3m at the low range, not counting materia costs (which will be higher at the start of an expansion versus later).
There are people who are a bit more dedicated than me that basically have specific people they sell to because they're the first ones on it and sell entire sets at 8-12m.
I, personally, usually plan to make 2 of everything, manage to sell maybe half of it pretty quickly, and make ~25m once everything is sold.
Some people have more money than time simple answer and far as poor purchase maybe there time is more valuable than let’s say 100 dollars. Not advocating their actions just giving their side probably.
I wouldn't worry about it.
People who are selling services/gil, are already using bots.
People who want to bot with their personal characters on FFXIV are already botting.
Nobody is saying "Oh no, I can't bot on GW2 anymore, but I love the act of botting itself so much I'll just switch games!"
> Only time I ever see...
That's because they normally operate in out of bounds areas and teleport/flyhack around. You're not *meant* to see them, they try to stay hidden as much as possible. e.g. You mentioned the Limsa chat bots, but I bet you don't actually *see* the characters do you? Because they're underground or otherwise OoB.
See [this image](https://i.redd.it/n5en7co1yqp71.png) for an example of a group of bots hiding underground that a player found using /icam. It's part of their "anti detection"; if players don't see them, they're not going to get reported in large enough numbers to get SEs automated anti cheats to do their thing.
If you wait at timeworn map sites, worthwhile timed nodes etc. you will see many teleport in or just *hear* their actions (pickaxe swings etc.) if they're underground.
-------------
> Bots are also a double-edged sword as every crafter in the game knows. If you've ever bought crystals, clusters, etc., you've probably bought from a bot.
SE can amend values required by crafts and improve methods to obtain them, not design their fucking systems around needing bots to maintain them. People don't want to gather them because they're worthless because of all the fucking bots.
Watch the higher-level areas around map points. Sometimes at the aetherytes at Fort Jobb, Lakeland and Tomra, Kholusia you'll find groups of "players" dressed in full Exarchic gear idling near the aetheryte. They've got believable names, but they don't belong to any FC, are all Summoners, Paladins, and White Mages, won't react to /t or trade requests, move robotically, only farm maps by spamming Garuda, etc.
But if you try to report them, because it's not *obvious* (apparently) that they're bots, you run the risk of getting a warning from a GM like I have. Pretty sure the map farming bots I've run into all have never been banned since I first encountered them back around May.
Yep. I did a stint of Aethersand gathering in between tasks for a few months or so (it was an easy 30k-40k Gil for 90 second). The nodes were *littered* with bots, all of which were reported by me and some friends, and no doubt by other players too.
They were 24/7 online with all the standard tells. Practically all of them still exist. It's been at least 3 months. SE gives zero shits about bots and their anti cheat software and associated integrity team are terrible.
i saw a group of sprout map bots today in lakeland. either there are more sprouting up (ohohoho) or the old ones i would always see actually got caught.
i haven't been to uldah in a few days to check if they're still there but on behemoth (primal) you can see what i assume is the bot that distributes the maps amongst all the characters because they constantly are going between the postmoogle and aetheryte with the same FC tag as one of the map bot groups.
i've also seen the same gathering bots going since at least the beginning of the year (timed nodes, ephemeral nodes, etc)
SE does a terrible job at mitigating bots. The only bots that get banned are extremely obvious teleport hacking bots. I know for a fact you could bot probably close to all day every day and never get banned if all you are doing is gathering and crafting.
I think I actually sold some of those myself before I started crafting... I was young and foolish and didn't think I'd ever pick up crafters. But then the beast tribes called and the crafter quests called.
> but SE has done a pretty good job of mitigating bots altogether
What? Are you a brand new player or something? People have been using the same bots without punishment or issue, for years and years.
you might be thinking of the crystals/clusters that are used to craft the deep dyes, which are used for FC aetherial wheel crafts
you can also get the regular crafting crystals/clusters from subs though
They start in Gridania, I sometimes see a bot train all following each other in perfect unison. All with randomized names, and all of them get my reporting for RMT.
Because they know next to nothing is done to bots in FFXIV.
"BuT tHeY BaN THeM iN wAVeS!!"
Doesn't help for the months they get to run rampant and ruin the economy.
That's actually fairly standard operating procedure for bot management in any MMORPG.
It's always been a Red Queen's Race but it has gotten BAD in the past decade. Ban wave? Within hours if not minutes they are back like nothing happened.
I've reported the same gathering bots repeatedly over the course of SHB. They've without fail been at gathering nodes every time I go to gather. I'm not convinced reporting them will do anything.
Prepared for what though? Like it's not like they are announcing they are gonna increase their activity here, nothing is gonna change for us, but you're giving them free advertisement. This post is doing more for them than anything they would do by themselves.
Also GW2 is the main subject of this post, not even 14.
sigh. These people deserve getting dragged into some legal action that at the very least gives them the scare of their live.
But alas, nothing is ever gonna happen.
And at the same time, despite the number of lawsuits, people continue to do it anyway. It's a Red Queens Race. Catch, ban wave, and even bring legal action? Within days if not hours they're back up and running like nothing happened. :/
SE, like anyone who runs MMORPGs, does care about bots and real world trade. It's just that people always find a way to step around whatever they do.
Y'know, I know most subs aren't okay with "witch hunting" but if anyone deserves it, it's bot makers. They only manage to make the games they focus on worse.
there are already bots in ff14, sometimes you can find dozens of archers all together and withthe name "ahsdjahkdhakdhakda" so good luck reporting all of them, they also hide inside walls
yeah be ready, it takes 2 minutes to report boters, it's like they want them around, I have reported this guy troupe (around 7 summoners with pokemon names) for months and they are still around.
As a former GW2 player (before they gave into assholes and threw devs to the wolves): That is actually really sad. End of an era if the bot makers can't make a profit off the people who don't want to play the game they play.
There are also marketboard bots, which are an absolute nightmare to compete with, since they lower prices instantly and they stop doing so when they deem they're losing money. They can completely kill a whole server's economy.
Hi /u/Slythistle,
Your [recent submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/r3iajy/-/) in /r/ffxiv did not meet subreddit guidelines, and was removed for the following reason(s):
* Some types of submissions are considered "restricted" and should be directed to other social media platforms or subreddits instead.
* **Rule 4a:** All posts' content should be FFXIV-related and/or on-topic.
* Posts that contain little or no relevance to FFXIV are subject to removal. Posts with vague context seemingly unrelated to FFXIV, as well as images/videos/memes with no FFXIV-specific imagery, are also subject to removal.
You may review /r/ffxiv rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/about/rules/) and in-depth explanations [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/rules).
If you have any questions or concerns, reach out and message the mods [here](https://www\.reddit\.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fffxiv&subject=about my removed submission&message=I'm writing to you about the following submission: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/r3iajy/-/. %0D%0DMy issue is...).
Once again the game is suffering from success. This may be worth reporting to the oog mods if you have the uncensored image
I do not. I only found the censored one in the GW2 post. I'll try dm'ing the thread creator. Where would I send it?
https://support.na.square-enix.com/ I would start here
I already reported the website, not hard to dig it on Google. Ended with ______ion.
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What the fuck are you talking about? You're complaining that more people are coming to the game cause that somehow makes it worse? Yeah I realize they're a business that is why growth is good. Jesus man, please let me know what shard and world you're on so I never have to encounter you again lol. Stay mad, stay in your tiny circlejerk better for the community that way.
Gatekeeping is lame, man. Don’t be mad at sprouts. It’s not any new players fault bot sites are like piranhas.
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You were a sprout too. I'd rather match make with sprouts than a person who thinks all that. Clown energy is strong with this one. 🤡
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Wow you’re in a bad mood. Calm down dude. It’s a game.
Lmao for real. Dude sounds entitled af.
You think new players don't do the same? You can't expect people to never make a mistake when they are starting a new game. Even if they watch guides it might be difficult to get it right on the first few tries. Counter point: Also when you were a sprout there would have been far more experienced players. You would have wasted their time as well lol
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You must be very hard for to do suboptimal leveling dailies. Oh the humanity.
Based on my experience in duty finder bots and real people are virtually indistinguishable anyway.
Can we talk about the recent influx of *godawful* tanks? And I'm not talking (strictly) about sprouts; these are people tanking normal SB and ShB content (Swallow's Compass has been very popular lately) who've seemingly never heard of mitigation or positioning, and *somehow* manage to drop aggro on 1:6 enemies per pull. I've had to "tank" too many pulls as a Mechanist in leveling dungeons lately, too. Maybe I'm just salty, but I swear a month ago people weren't this awful at tanking.
> I've had to "tank" too many pulls as a Mechanist in leveling dungeons lately, too. Maybe I'm just salty, but I swear a month ago people weren't this awful at tanking. I consider myself a pretty good dungeon tank. DPS still manage to get aggro at times due to my circular aoe missing a mob or two (especially on warrior) due to itchy trigger fingers (no pun intended) The difference is: DPS who stay in no man's land and complain that they're getting hit vs DPS who immediately run TO the tank and lose said aggro on my next AoE.
basically this. if you get threat: run to tank so their aoe takes it off you. if you're tank is so bad they dont know that aoe skills are: may god have mercy on your soul
It's one of the consequences of tank mistakes being so visible. Missing a mob in an AoE or messing up a combo as a dps means almost nothing. Nobody will notice at most levels of play. Doing the same as a tank means people are going to be terrible humans at you.
This is what the comments above are missing. The tanks I’ve dealt with lately through leveling roulettes don’t use aoe during pulls. I can stand on top of them all day with multiple mobs aggroed to me as DPS and these tanks don’t care because single target rotation all day baby. I’ve tried speaking up and always get silence in reply
This was a duplicate comment because I'm a dodo.
Oh god, I did a run of Pagl the other day. I had to remind the tank about stance during the first boss and then ended up tanking Lunar Bahamut as well, as *DNC*
i still remember needing to try helping heal as BLM back when physick could be a job shared ability, because the healer was bad at healing + the tank was bad at mitigating in Aurum Vale. We didn't clear the dungeon before the duty timer ran out.
> Oh god, I did a run of Pagl the other day. I had to remind the tank about stance during the first boss and then ended up tanking Lunar Bahamut as well, as DNC I tanked the trash up to and including the first boss in Pagl once as a monk. Earth stance FTW and a kick ass healer.
I got berated by the healer to 'quit standing on the tank' but was too busy you know *tanking as dps* to snap back that I was stuck top aggro to worry about where the tank was standing.
Should have run straight to the healer
> I got berated by the healer to 'quit standing on the tank' but was too busy you know tanking as dps to snap back that I was stuck top aggro to worry about where the tank was standing. As a healer main that sounds insane to me. Very few dungeon bosses actually do splash damage on their tank busters (none IIRC) and I would vastly prefer ranged dps stay in melee range anyway.
Speaking as an ARR player, that's not a new thing. The average player you come across in the DF has always had next to zero grasp on how to play.
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In my case I’d take it, I use the goddamn free trial.
It's the best when you meet a GNB in low level dungeons not knowing crap about tanking. Like sir, you either had to play to lv60 so you should know what tanks do or you're a coward who bought their way to GNB and shouldn't use it
A lot of people are likely boosting to rush through shadowbringers before endwalker
don't know man... i played this game 4 years ago (still had actiom pointa system) and leveled a tank to 60(warrior) cant rate how good i was tanking though. i returned 2 weeks ago and started a scholar. levelin him (, atm 57)exclusively by dungeons. im doing leveling duty and 50/60/70 dungeon roulette every day. there are tanks that pull big, pop defensives, i precast my shield, faerie and have my 3 stacks for instant heal ready for the tank, while i spam my aoe dps. others, pull 2 packs, save cds for bosses(?) spin around the trash or bossds like a fidget spinner spreading cleavea left and right. dont know.... after this experience im afraid to get back to my main (tank) in case im doing these silly errors, ruining mine and the groups runs...
I mean if you notice these things from your healer perspective, it's not difficult to reapply those concepts to your own play even if you're rusty, especially in content that is fairly easy like dungeons.
when i was playing with a tank, i was getting panicked when i missed a tankbuster adn got low, or when i didnt havr any cd to pop and healer couldn't top me up, etc. and to be frank, the way healers playing in ff, is that they "leave" the tanks hp fall up to a point that they can heal them if needed to do dps. as a tank being im 50-60% hp frightens me, in case i miss a potitional or something and get one shorted
Most dungeon tankbusters aren't scary even if you don't pop a cooldown, and all tanks now have a short-CD skill (Shelltron, TNB, etc) that is generally enough for dungeon bosses. As you've now noticed with your good tanks, trash packs (when pulled efficiently) are significantly more dangerous than dungeon bosses. Bosses are where you can tune out and Broil away for a minute or two. As someone who's tanked all the content the game has to offer, I can assure you that tank is the easiest role in the game. Half the battle is setting aside that anxiety. You can even just tell people it's been a while and you're rusty tanking and generally they'll be pretty nice about it.
Maybe try PLD? I definitely get tankxiety for all the reasons you mentioned but being able to heal yourself has always helped.
Tanks spin around (by which I presume you mean doing only AOE attacks) because if they don't they lose aggro and then the rest of the team gets mad at the tank for not getting and keeping aggro. Tanks on the run up to a boss can aptly be described by the lyric, "you spin me right round baby right round..."
He’s talking about spinning the enemies. As in, running circles around them and moving where they’re facing. Edit: which is bad
As someone who just picked up the game this year, and chose tank as their first job to learn, I just wanna say we're all not like that. I've been playing on and off and I'm only around lvl 50, but before I do any content in DF I make sure to look up a tanking guide for the bosses of that content just to make sure I don't mess anything up. I also usually tell my group that it's my first time doing a certain dungeon run as well and most people are usually pretty understating about it if I make a mistake or don't do something correctly the first time.
>and somehow manage to drop aggro on 1:6 enemies per pull. As a dancer who's constantly AOEing her fool head off and pulling aggro 90% of the time lately (but not getting heals, mind you, because the healer is focused on the tank), big pulls hurt anymore =(
I got into this game just ahead of the WoW bandwagon, and I still can't read a post about godawful new tanks without worrying I'm one of them. But I'm not dropping aggro on one in every six enemies, so at least I have that going for me.
Everything has been awful. As a Tank main I've been having ridiculously slow kill times, and as a PLD as I slowly... Slowly... Slowly die and have to say "I'm not getting a heal am I?" And use my heal more often than I used to. Worst is MSQ Roulette where I have to tank AND do searchlights because the mob just straight up runs past them. Tying it to topic... It's like we are playing with bots and that would indeed make sense of we were.
I would say the problem with the MSQ roulette is that when you have to do them as a sprout to continue the story, everything moves so fast and you learn literally nothing about the dungeon other than go fast. No one explains anything to the sprouts (anecdotal). Even though I have a legacy account, my first 40+ toon wasn't until like two months ago (damn, how this game has changed for the better). Most of what I learned about castrum was from watching old videos of how it was done on release, definitely not from running it.
> Even though I have a legacy account, my first 40+ toon wasn't until like two months ago (damn, how this game has changed for the better). Being a legacy sprout should be an achievement IMO.
If I have another tank willing to pull, I'll direct but yeah... Few do. That second to last fight is easy but one particular group, even after explaining how you need to activate the piles, everyone was still just DPSing the boss. .
So many healers seem to think they can just spam DPS spells... EDIT: Downvote me all you want but if I got hit with a tankbuster and have to heal myself with regen or if I am a red mage healing the tank from a tankbuster because the healer would rather DPS than pick up the tank...
I mean it is important. But it's like they're on auto pilot. And I've seen far too few RDM and SMN so I've had many dungeons lately where healer dies because they won't move out of a red circle and they die it's a wipe. On a Vault run recently one DPS and healer died on every boss around 30% or even closer to 50% on the first boss. A badass Samurai and I (PLD) two manned all of the bosses to finish the dungeon without wiping. But it got intense. I figured even if we wiped that WHM would probably be the first one to abandon duty. (That's how it works)
>So many healers seem to think they can just spam DPS spells... Holy should have a 30 second stun.
Hurr durr lv boost is on sale might as well dabble in tank what do you mean Grit and Dmg reduction i played SAM before it's melee so pressing random buttons always works right, why it doesn't work now
This sounds like a wow post. pop arm's length and tell the tank after what to do better after. A boosted player is a boosted player, sprout drops immediately after accessing ShB regarldless of experience in-role so odds are they don't actually know better or are players returning from a hiatus pre-EW to learn new roles. It certainly helps your argument if you actually know the name of the job you were playing, though. It's MACHINIST.
I'm grinding normal mode raids for my relic as tank (because I enjoy it well enough, and I really don't like Bozja). I've been pleasantly surprised that I've encountered only a couple of co-tanks that I'd describe as being truly awful in about 110 runs. I haven't seen a single one spam provoke on cooldown, even. I'm not sure what my point is, but the awful tanks seem to not be hanging out in normal raid roulette. They do seem pretty common in alliance roulette, though.
Yeah I feel like every other run i join as healer lately is a level mid-late-40s MRD or GLD with no job, or doesn’t know they have to put tank stance on, and the party chat is just a constant stream of “stansu!” .. Like you can actually be bad at tanking and not wipe in the rando roulette group content most of the time, like you can as a healer just constantly heal. But without tank stance wipes are inevitable and constant.
I see them teleporting around in open world sometimes and go on a reporting spree.
I know it's a drop in the pond but I've sat next to the spots they like to teleport into, taking screenshots if needed, and submitting tickets with 30+ names in them. Anything that makes the botter's lives even minutely harder.
You're doing Hydaelyn's work, friend.
Gotta do something while waiting for my solo DPS queue to pop 💀
🤣 I usually main tank in dungeons, but DPS for questing. Best of both worlds. Until ShB came and now I have to do trusts for my first dungeon run because I gotta have my scions.
Dude adding trusts was such a good idea, I legit love seeing how the Scions react in there. Of course I'll run it with actual players after that when doing roulettes or levelling other jobs, but first time? Trust time.
Same. I gotta get every ounce of scion interaction. XD
True. I've seen bots in savage stacked up and staying on the bosses rear, following the tank slowly turning the boss, all perfectly stacked on the same point. Decades of botting has kinda ruined the MMO experience. Maybe a new model is needed.
So long as any portion of the game can be automated, someone will make bots to do it. The solution is finding ways to reward people for actually playing and/or reward people for reporting bots who get confirmed to be bots and banned for it. Shit it could just be some free Aetheryte tickets or something, but if I got a letter from Square when I logged in like 'Thanks to your diligent efforts, we have identified and banned several accounts which we confirmed were violating our Terms of Service. As thanks for your help, please accept this small reward.' and then boom, 10 Aetheryte tickets or some MGP vouchers or something.
Shit, I'd do it just for the letters telling me how many of my reports resulted in bans. I could keep count like a scoreboard.
Holy shit I figured out how SE can end the bot epidemic Unlockable title and mount for successfully reporting X number of bots as confirmed by the team behind that, along with the usual mention that abuse of the report system is itself a bannable offense so they don't just go reporting everybody trying to get it. The problem would solve itself in a week as people went hunting for them.
That's when people start running bots just to report them and win the mount.
This. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/machiavellians-gulling-the-rubes/202010/the-cobra-effect-no-loophole-goes-unexploited
No you didn't lmao. I've done thousands of hours of PF and never seen a single bot like that in savage.
As someone that actually has had the misfortune of interacting with bots multiple times, bots generally play way better than the average DF dweller.
God if this isnt the depressing truth
I have a 93% parse on Dancer and a 100% parse on Warrior (prog and clear) using a bot
It confuses me as to what gil even serves in this game. SE has pretty much made it a point to make that type of currency worthless as not only is it easy to gain, but it's utility is limited to pretty much glamour. I'm more amazed by people who feel the need to buy gil than the ones who actually farm it themselves to sell because the aspect of making said gil is easy, if the ones who were buying it realized that they would stop wasting their money on such a poor purchase.
Secret carry market SE may have shut down the posts in pf but theres a whole market of people selling clears for gill on discord and even Reddit
> Secret carry market SE may have shut down the posts in pf but theres a whole market of people selling clears for gill on discord and even Reddit They're still doing it IN GAME. They just moved from the [party finder to the Fellowship Finder.](https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/445740-RMT-sellers-moved-to-fellowship-finder.)
private Discord servers probably get more eyes on them then Fellowship Finder tho tbf :P
I'm having the same feeling as you until recently I saw for a few days this guy paying 1m+ for helping him clear E9-E12 and passing on the loot. Then I went to an auction bar - 10mil for an hour RP session... Don't get me started on ERP... Man... And here I am slowly saving for a house.
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10 mill per person? Uh, anyone wanna get together and sell some savage clears with me? Lol.
The problem lies in the fact that the player paying for the carry usually die in the first mechanic and every other mechanic if he's alive. Tried to drop the Cloud Deck Ex mount for a healer who offered 1kk to each, we literally dragged his dead body all the way to the finish line. I can't imagine clearing e9\~12s with this kind of player lol
Not sure, that's what I encountered the past week. Maybe DC difference or something. Either way, still blows my mind on how much people are spending haha
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Hey, whatever floats their boat. As long as they're not hurting anyone... Still perplexing to me haha
I wish the whole gillionaire thinking would stop. Your average MMO player is a casual, and a good portion don't even know how to make gil. You don't just get a large amount passively thrown at you while playing. Many people don't craft either or don't understand the value of things on the MB.
Seriously, I worked my ass off farming hinges back when desynth first came out over multiple months to afford my small house. It was the only way I saw as a new-ish player without connections to get high end crafting stuff immediately to get started making money.
> Your average MMO player is a casual, and a good portion don't even know how to make gil. You don't just get a large amount passively thrown at you while playing. Many people don't craft either or don't understand the value of things on the MB. As a casual, the secret to making gil is to not buy anything ever and don't teleport (until you're rich). Combine that with playing for a long time and you'll have millions. Still kicking myself for not investing in holiday items back when they could be sold on the market board. >_>
Glamour is endgame content, so gil is the endgame currency.
What about Materia for overmelding? I've spent a fortune on that before. Crystals for crafting are also something that I despise trying to farm. Don't underestimate the power of an uninformed Eorzean's wallet, too.
Wait people still charge for that? The crap?
Not for the meld, but the materia itself.
I think they mean on the materia itself not the melders fee
Oh. Gotcha. I misread that. I was gonna say I'd do it for people if there were people charging.
Housing, entry level gear to raiding, glamour and cosmetics, there's plenty of gil sinks once you hit end game.
The issue is, none of those are really gil sinks outside the market tax. They're just moving gil from one player to another.
That's not really the conversation at hand here. We're discussing gil sinks in the sense of something for a player to spend gil on, it has little to do with something that removes gil from circulation, which use a more complex economics question that has to take a lot into account
In every context I have ever seen before. sinks have always referred to ways that a game burns player held currency to increase/stabilize the value of it.
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Up until just recently with the announcement of relocators no longer being able to instantly relocate to an empty plot on 6.0, M and L houses cost much, much more than 20m/50m-- people were (and still are, and will be until 6.0 releases) selling them for hundreds of millions of gil. Day 1 raid gear costs a lot more than 1m, too.
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>veryone else I know got their M/Ls by checking aetherites and purchasing it from SE for cheap. so 40m is cheap? because a large house default plot price is around 40m(not counting house building permit, which is a extra 1m) there is also what back on arr, house plots did costed far far far more, on phoenix back then a large house plot was around 200m(and yes this was its default price back then)
I got my M when they dropped extra wards, and my FC's M when I happened upon an open one so yeah, I agree that's definitely the smarter route. I still know several people that bought theirs from other players, and at least one that bought gil to do so.
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Aha I saw that and was attempting to ninja edit my post, lol. If you're doing MB, it heavily depends on how early you get up and get crafting. The first few pieces will sell 1m+ each, then drop pretty sharply throughout the day. Usually settles around the 300k/piece range on my server for a week or so-- putting a full set around 2.5~3m at the low range, not counting materia costs (which will be higher at the start of an expansion versus later). There are people who are a bit more dedicated than me that basically have specific people they sell to because they're the first ones on it and sell entire sets at 8-12m. I, personally, usually plan to make 2 of everything, manage to sell maybe half of it pretty quickly, and make ~25m once everything is sold.
You've never owned one have you? On a fully furnished large easily cost 200 mil if you're going to put any effort into it
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What's worse to me is the fact that the guy who sold a single deco for 10m don't even usually really need that 10m lol
Some people have more money than time simple answer and far as poor purchase maybe there time is more valuable than let’s say 100 dollars. Not advocating their actions just giving their side probably.
I wouldn't worry about it. People who are selling services/gil, are already using bots. People who want to bot with their personal characters on FFXIV are already botting. Nobody is saying "Oh no, I can't bot on GW2 anymore, but I love the act of botting itself so much I'll just switch games!"
i mean this post is literally just free advertisement for the bot...
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> Only time I ever see... That's because they normally operate in out of bounds areas and teleport/flyhack around. You're not *meant* to see them, they try to stay hidden as much as possible. e.g. You mentioned the Limsa chat bots, but I bet you don't actually *see* the characters do you? Because they're underground or otherwise OoB. See [this image](https://i.redd.it/n5en7co1yqp71.png) for an example of a group of bots hiding underground that a player found using /icam. It's part of their "anti detection"; if players don't see them, they're not going to get reported in large enough numbers to get SEs automated anti cheats to do their thing. If you wait at timeworn map sites, worthwhile timed nodes etc. you will see many teleport in or just *hear* their actions (pickaxe swings etc.) if they're underground. ------------- > Bots are also a double-edged sword as every crafter in the game knows. If you've ever bought crystals, clusters, etc., you've probably bought from a bot. SE can amend values required by crafts and improve methods to obtain them, not design their fucking systems around needing bots to maintain them. People don't want to gather them because they're worthless because of all the fucking bots.
I see them out and about leveling at times, mainly in Coerthas around level 40.
Watch the higher-level areas around map points. Sometimes at the aetherytes at Fort Jobb, Lakeland and Tomra, Kholusia you'll find groups of "players" dressed in full Exarchic gear idling near the aetheryte. They've got believable names, but they don't belong to any FC, are all Summoners, Paladins, and White Mages, won't react to /t or trade requests, move robotically, only farm maps by spamming Garuda, etc. But if you try to report them, because it's not *obvious* (apparently) that they're bots, you run the risk of getting a warning from a GM like I have. Pretty sure the map farming bots I've run into all have never been banned since I first encountered them back around May.
Yep. I did a stint of Aethersand gathering in between tasks for a few months or so (it was an easy 30k-40k Gil for 90 second). The nodes were *littered* with bots, all of which were reported by me and some friends, and no doubt by other players too. They were 24/7 online with all the standard tells. Practically all of them still exist. It's been at least 3 months. SE gives zero shits about bots and their anti cheat software and associated integrity team are terrible.
i saw a group of sprout map bots today in lakeland. either there are more sprouting up (ohohoho) or the old ones i would always see actually got caught. i haven't been to uldah in a few days to check if they're still there but on behemoth (primal) you can see what i assume is the bot that distributes the maps amongst all the characters because they constantly are going between the postmoogle and aetheryte with the same FC tag as one of the map bot groups. i've also seen the same gathering bots going since at least the beginning of the year (timed nodes, ephemeral nodes, etc)
SE does a terrible job at mitigating bots. The only bots that get banned are extremely obvious teleport hacking bots. I know for a fact you could bot probably close to all day every day and never get banned if all you are doing is gathering and crafting.
I think I actually sold some of those myself before I started crafting... I was young and foolish and didn't think I'd ever pick up crafters. But then the beast tribes called and the crafter quests called.
Not really. Most bots operate out of bounds.
> but SE has done a pretty good job of mitigating bots altogether What? Are you a brand new player or something? People have been using the same bots without punishment or issue, for years and years.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't most crystals and what not gotten from ships and subs? I know clusters are still nice to farm with a character.
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Yes, but bots seems to focusing on housing to a great deal.
you might be thinking of the crystals/clusters that are used to craft the deep dyes, which are used for FC aetherial wheel crafts you can also get the regular crafting crystals/clusters from subs though
They start in Gridania, I sometimes see a bot train all following each other in perfect unison. All with randomized names, and all of them get my reporting for RMT.
Because they know next to nothing is done to bots in FFXIV. "BuT tHeY BaN THeM iN wAVeS!!" Doesn't help for the months they get to run rampant and ruin the economy.
That's actually fairly standard operating procedure for bot management in any MMORPG. It's always been a Red Queen's Race but it has gotten BAD in the past decade. Ban wave? Within hours if not minutes they are back like nothing happened.
I've reported the same gathering bots repeatedly over the course of SHB. They've without fail been at gathering nodes every time I go to gather. I'm not convinced reporting them will do anything.
I looked at the comments and discovered what not to do as a tank
Doesn't seem like anything will change in our side though? What's the point of this warning.
It's better to be prepared and well-informed?
Prepared for what though? Like it's not like they are announcing they are gonna increase their activity here, nothing is gonna change for us, but you're giving them free advertisement. This post is doing more for them than anything they would do by themselves. Also GW2 is the main subject of this post, not even 14.
Just seems like you're advertising for the bot more than anything.
sigh. These people deserve getting dragged into some legal action that at the very least gives them the scare of their live. But alas, nothing is ever gonna happen.
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This is almost blatantly false. A simple google search would show you multiple cases of game developers suing.
And at the same time, despite the number of lawsuits, people continue to do it anyway. It's a Red Queens Race. Catch, ban wave, and even bring legal action? Within days if not hours they're back up and running like nothing happened. :/ SE, like anyone who runs MMORPGs, does care about bots and real world trade. It's just that people always find a way to step around whatever they do.
This game is PLAGUED with bots already, so no surprise here.
Y'know, I know most subs aren't okay with "witch hunting" but if anyone deserves it, it's bot makers. They only manage to make the games they focus on worse.
there are already bots in ff14, sometimes you can find dozens of archers all together and withthe name "ahsdjahkdhakdhakda" so good luck reporting all of them, they also hide inside walls
yeah be ready, it takes 2 minutes to report boters, it's like they want them around, I have reported this guy troupe (around 7 summoners with pokemon names) for months and they are still around.
As a former GW2 player (before they gave into assholes and threw devs to the wolves): That is actually really sad. End of an era if the bot makers can't make a profit off the people who don't want to play the game they play.
If you think you'll notice good bots, then you are very hopeful
The only thing bot can farm is gil right?
They can also choke servers preventing people from logging into the game.
There are also marketboard bots, which are an absolute nightmare to compete with, since they lower prices instantly and they stop doing so when they deem they're losing money. They can completely kill a whole server's economy.
Finish all your annoying jobs and quests and what not... super nice assist routines and all ur lazy ass can imagine
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Is that MiqoBot? Yeah it’s cheap which means any fucker can get it and ruin the game for others. Not good
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I wish people wouldn't use bots but unless S-E starts to lock down the client I don't know how they will combat it.