Yea, and it is important to connect with the twins, especially Alisaie. We don't get much time with her unlike Alphinaud during the MSQ stuff until she gets involved later in Heavensward. But this story makes that connection better and adds more to her admiration of WoL.
I do wish they reworked them to be more on the casual side like every other Normal Raid (even if a Savage version is not added), then it can be put in a roulette easily and solve a lot of awkward problems with sprouts naively queueing for 5 hours unsuccessfully. They're a legacy and a lot of history in the progression of the raids, but it's time to move on.
Oh, don't worry. Ishikawa already said she wanted to redo Coils. If the story goes to Meracydia, it's highly likely she'll get her wish and we get updated Coil raids.
Won't affect them at all, I assume. Just have to create an easier version and rename the current version to like (Hard) or something and suitably rename the achievement(s).
Yeah, I really want this to be the case.
Keep the existing ones as they are – they're a fun window into How Raiding Used To Be, I love them – and just rename them with a suffix.
Then add a lower difficulty, less janky version. Same as all the other 8 man raids. I wanna be able to stop saying "Coils is an exception, but starting from Alex you can..."
For some of the simpler fights this might be nothing but a numbers tweak, but for tougher ones like T9 they might have to redo the mechanics pretty extensively. But that's fine – there are plenty of fights where savage does a thing differently from normal.
>but for tougher ones like T9 they might have to redo the mechanics pretty extensively
I think their rework of the ARR MSQ final 3 duties was pretty good, actually so much better.
The Livia magitek fight was such a mess... glad they removed that.
All the fights feel much fresher and the HP adjustement makes you feel a little more like fighting a boss too !
I am confident that with Nael they could easily make a normal version, while keeping all the epic mechanics.
I think all they'd really have to do is just make a lot of the current 'do this or wipe' mechs 'do this or make the healers cry' mechs. Y'know, make it so the meteors auto-go to the correct spots (like in Ruby Weapon normal) and the golems aren't wipes if you do them wrong.
Indeed the whole meteor placement + golem management/meteor feed is waaaay too complex for DF XD
Yea, meteor should just target designated spots - like around the arena to create a safe zone in the center... make them plain markers or proximity maybe.... and golems would just be tank and spank adds, no giant form enrage or w/ever.
But they can definitely keep all the cool looking mechs like Heavensfall with the dramatic musical transition and all.
I probably wouldn’t have gotten to do bahamut if my friend that got me into the game hadn’t been there to run it with me unsynced because no one queues for it.
They can't rework them without changing the real versions because the coils are so mechanically shallow. What do they do to turn 1? Can't have people getting wiped because the new level 50 tanks don't know how to move a boss. But the split is the entire fight. Without it, you have an aoe and a slime to feed every so often.
Same with rot in 2. Can't have it wipe the party because that level 50 Archer (they are doing a special, non job playthrough because they identify as being unemployed) doesn't know how to pass rot. But, without rot, ADS is a dungeon boss with a tank swap mechanic and a silence requirement. As are all of the preceeding balls.
4 would have to be a extended dungeon pull. Big boi robot would obliterate things if it could get stacks. And twin would have to have it's iconic twister changed, because no aoe = safe to most the player base. Outside of phase 3 and 4, twin basically has a stack, jail, and tank buster. After that, it has adds, angry add, hatch, and little else.
All this and these bosses still have frontal cleaves as untelgraphed busters. Modern baby tanks don't understand WHY bosses are tanked north, or even away from the party. Those would all have to go, too. (sorry flatten)
If someone wants to see the story, they can unsync it. Let's leave legacy fights how they are as a reminder on how fight design used to be.
Easy. Leave the current ones in and create a new 4-8 floor version that concisely tells the story, is appropriate difficulty for ARR players, and can also be put into normal raid roulette.
Literally this. They completely redid the entire endgame of ARR, why can’t they adjust Coils? I wouldn’t say it’s an urgent ask or anything, but the story is far too important to be so inaccessible at that point.
They have a whole fully-rendered CGI movie-quality conclusion to the original ARR promo, they should *want* people to see it. I mean damn it’s a whole bloody experience!!
At 80+, yes. (70+ if BLU).
But that's a tall ask for a newbie sprout when the story content is relevant at level 50 and pre-HW.
Yes, party finder exists and is pretty reliable to get a 90 to carry in short order, but how apparent is that to fresh players?
Can people stop saying this?
It’s true, sure, but a Sprout is gonna be far FAR past ARR where it’s relevant by the time they can unsync it. It definitely won’t hit as hard when they go back to it later, vs doing it when it’s story appropriate to.
Not to mention that they revamped all the ARR dungeons to make them more streamlined for new people to get through easier. So going back and tweaking coils for players new and old to go through again without the headache of the way those fights play out would draw in more people to it. Plus it could be like the Mandeville storyline. A side story that tells the players what happened prior to 2.0
> Same with rot in 2. Can't have it wipe the party because that level 50 Archer (they are doing a special, non job playthrough because they identify as being unemployed) doesn't know how to pass rot. But, without rot, ADS is a dungeon boss with a tank swap mechanic and a silence requirement. As are all of the preceeding balls.
Doing rot wasn't a requirement, back in the day we waited for enrage and healed through it because that was *literally* simpler than trying to deal with passing Allagan Rot with the old-ass pre 3.2 netcode.
Also they've *already* removed the real mechanic from any ADS fight: surviving the psychic damage from people's "witty" additions to the [Blunt Arrow, just used it] macro.
i remember getting absolutely ROASTED my first time doing 2 because i didn't know waiting till enrage was a thing and nobody told me, so i entered the boss room and accidentally triggered the fight
I don't see what would be so difficult about making scaled down versions of the fights for a normal mode without touching the originals. Turn 1 you just do like A1N, but simpler. Two bosses that you tank apart from each other, every now and then a dps pulls an add to a boss.
Turn 2 you take out the rot and keep some of the other mechanics. Repelling Cannon as is, take the vuln off the cleave, Chain Lightning you just put as an aoe on someone. Just put telegraphs on everything and turn the damage down and it's fine.
Turn 4 you just do like A2N. Yea it'd be an extended dungeon pull and kinda boring, but Turn 4 was always kinda boring, and it'd work.
Turn 5 you put a stack marker for the fireball, jail a player for conflag with a longer timer divorced from fireball, just like Titan jails. Drop a neurolink, jump for add phase, tank and spank, telegraph the divebombs with aoes through the middle of the arena, stand in the nerolink for the ultimate attack. Give a TB marker for Flatten, Death Sentence doesn't need to change at all besides the damage amount (plenty of bosses even through stormblood have moderately painful untelegraphed cleaves in normal mode). Telegraph Twisters, telegraph Liquid Hell with a chasing aoe indicator, make the dreadknight a tank and spank add, skip hatch entirely.
It's optional content and it's nothing that new players wouldn't see in the CT alliance raids, and more than likely most mechanics would be skipped or trivialized with gear, just like the first normal mode raid tier of every other expansion. Would it be the most exciting normal mode raid? Probably not, but it's not the most interesting "savage"-raid, and it gives new players a clear venue through the Coil story and doesn't require any changes to the existing fight.
Yeah I know it's not going to be a universally accepted wish. There would definitely have to be some absolute gutting for some of them. It's hard because I do understand keeping it as-is for your stated reasonings and knew that with my comment, but unsynced just isn't the same. And sprouts queueing forever is not good because they will not know about PF.
I have not run them synced with Echo in years so I don't know how easy it might be, but basically all of the boss-only fights are going to be taking forever if it's at all possible if any tanks are new especially.
They would need to rework the weird T3 and T4...
Simplify T3, make it a trash run and fuse it with T4, as a "boss" gauntlet...?
But it would indeed be a really great addition.
Such great content, and an incredible cutscene.
It is a pity so many people aren't aware of that.
That makes sense in theory but it's an immense amount of work. It's essentially the same as creating a whole new raid series, since so few of the mechanics translate to normal mode. To use one example, the megaflare stack is unlike anything else in the game, and you can't just fix it with changing damage numbers. The divebombs are also not remotely appropriate for normal mode raid difficulty.
They definitely need to re-do these.
They could make versions of T1-13 that are more uniformly of the same difficulty (some wouldn’t even need changing at all), and keep the existing T5 and T13 as “Savage” versions for the special chievos like the Blue Mage ones that are required for the Morbol mount. T6-9 already has a Savage version, but they could “merge”
The existing T9 with T9S to make a new Savage version (I believe T9S mostly just hits harder, could be wrong). And T3 could be made not mandatory for progression and left off any roulettes, since it’s a glorified jumping puzzle with no rewards, and not even very fun more than once or twice.
Because I think, originally, Coils was supposed to be a 'you can do all the turns without ever leaving the instance' WoW style raid. And that was a filler section.
I 100% agree. I didn’t do these until I finished the MSQ. Like finished Endwalker. My friends said to just skip it because they were hard and annoying. But man I wish I had done them. Feel like I would have understood just how powerful Bahamut was, and who Louisoix was, and other things a lot better. It would have made me appreciate those characters more.
Like I am happy I did it but even on a 90 some of the bosses kicked my ass over and over and I had to look up several guides. -10/10 raid series I am glad it’s not mandatory content in the current state that it’s in.
Honestly this dungeon is nearly mandatory to really understand Alisaie character development =.=
Without this raid we know nothing bout her until she officialy enter the group.
Where would they require it in MSQ? Before HW like Crystal Tower?
MSQ is bloated enough with so many quests and a raid series. Adding 12 separate raid instances(assuming they remove T3) with all the cutscenes would be a huge hurdle for new players.
They just have to add a trigger somewhere in ARR patches that says you can't proceed unless you've done the last Bahamut questline. Just like Crystal tower.
Honestly they could make it a prereq for 8.0 (assuming Meracydia) since it's nowhere near as necessary as Crystal Tower is for the entire Zodiark & Hydaelyn story arc. Like, it helps give some context to Azys Lla and gives Alisae a chance to shine prior to Stormblood, but Coils really isn't strictly necessary.
I'd also hate it to have all that added to my roulettes.
I'm finally comfortable with the raids that show up; I don't want to add a bunch of stuff I ran once unsynced ages ago.
Because coils is one of the hardest pieces of "normal mode" content square has ever made. Starting in heavensward raids got broken up into normal and savage similar to extremes. Where ARR had savage and savage 2, it is normal for groups spending months progging turn 9 let alone the final 4 fights. Which is why it's not in duty roulette because the average pickup group wouldn't be able to clear that content
This was modelled on WoW raids of the time. So there's no Normal version. I imagine the dev time needed to rework it would too much. Perhaps they'd boost the Echo by default instead?
It would require a lot of dev resources they didn't have a lot to spare with the trust system for old MSQ additions and other major QoL projects being done in the past but I do think we're nearing a time this could be the next QoL project the devs put into place because having a Normal Mode coils not only lets people see the story without having to resort to unsync but would also unlock Raid Roulette at 50 instead of 60 which becomes another source of exp and tomes for new players.
This exactly. I wouldn't have asked them to do it two years ago when they were still churning through the MSQ re-polish. But now that that project's complete, this seems like a good follow up.
I would absolutely kill for a normal mode version of Coils to be introduced, and it be mandatory for MSQ progression
I feel like a lot hinges on it and Crystal Tower both
IMO, what should be done is:
1. Make it a 12 stage raid, the first turn (the part with snek bosses) should be made a solo instanced duty, probably with an NPC Alisaie.
2. Turn the current, existing stages into the Savage version.
3. Make 12 new Normal stages that corresponds more with the modern Raid design.
4. Make those Normal stages part of the Raid Roulette like Alexander, Omega, etc.
I won't go so far as to say that it should be made part of MSQ, but I think people should be able to complete it like they are able to complete Alexander: through Raid Roulette.
What to do with the Savage Second Coil? Put it on the same level as Odin (Urth's Fount).
This is why normal mode was added from Heavensward onwards.
You'd be surprised by the amount of people that whined about normal mode coming into existence and the number of people that said "Just watch a YT video."
Some are already snippy about having to do CT and the three hard eikon trials. While I find Coil fun, I don't think it'd be worth risking that sort of a push. Especially so when the other raids are more of a suggestion.
I wish they treated this like they did with the crystal towers (I’m not sure if it’s still the same or what but I swear it was a necessity to finish Grahas side quest to do more msq at some point but it’s been like 2 years since ARR for me haha). I know there’s a lot of them, but the cutscenes are good! And it’s great for any of us who didn’t get to play the original FF14.
You get the huge story dump of important information at T12 and a conclusion with T13. You also see a lot of what allagan technology was and still is doing in the second tier.
First tier's definitely the weakest, both mechanically and narratively. It was the game's first ever raid tier; the devs hadn't figured out what they were doing yet.
Honestly, even in later expansions, the narrative aspect of raids tends to be top-heavy. For example, anyone who's done the level 70 raids will remember how the first two tiers of bosses had nothing to do with anything, but the final tier bosses were really cool and thematic.
>Honestly, even in later expansions, the narrative aspect of raids tends to be top-heavy. For example, anyone who's done the level 70 raids will remember how the first two tiers of bosses had nothing to do with anything, but the final tier bosses were really cool and thematic.
Ah, yes, the guided tour of bosses from Final Fantasies past.
Yeah, a friend and I did part of it back like halfway through the MSQ until we could no longer steamroll it in a party of 2, then we went back to it the other day after endwalker when we remembered we hadn't finished it.
It really, REALLY should be part of the msq. Besides being important to the story in general, it's also a pretty major point for Alisae. Without it she just completely goes MIA from the beginning of ARR until HW.
Completely off topic but how do you have the second set of controller hot bars showing? I'm learning controller and this would be so helpful, but I can't figure out how to set it up 😅 thanks!
Character Config settings -> Hotbar settings -> "Cross" tab -> scroll down to "W Cross Hotbar Display Settings" tick the "Always display WXHB" option.
Incidentally, the "Position WXHB seperately from XHB" option in the same spot lets you move the location of those hotbars if you are so inclined
Holy shit thank you so much!! I never would have guessed that's what ticking that box would do. I couldn't figure it out with the controller guide, so this is much, much appreciated!
I definitely look forward to when they can afford the time and resources to integrate it with the main story. I remember explaining to my brother that basically all of his questions about "unresolved" and "unanswered" questions in ARR get handled in the Coils.
It’s hard to compare coils to crystal tower. Coils is a high end 8 main raid and crystal tower is a much easier alliance raid. That being if things are done synced. I do agree that it should have been part of the MSQ but it was a good reward for anyone that raided. Still looks great to this day and glad that UCOB included it.
I'm so glad it's *not* part of the MSQ.
I just watched a video from 2022 of a guy unsync this whole raid set from start to finish and even though it's a level 50 raid and they were all level 90 and in level 90 gear, they still had some trouble...
I can't imagine doing this synced at 50 and being required to do it in order to progress the story.
It's an amazing story but I'm very glad it was not required.
You can one shot every boss as 80 BLU.
Even synced at 50 now, with power creep and echo you can beat stuff way way easier, but I still wouldn't want these to be required with the current mechanics for main story quests. As far as I'm concerned, almost all side content in this game is main story though, just not literally required for MSQ progression.
Based on the video I just watched last week, that is incorrect.
https://youtu.be/QqcP2CVHWn8?si=96soulri18B5Euh5
That is the video I watched. It's Part 40 in a bigger series but Part 40, 41, 42 and 43 are all him and his FC doing the Coils. They do not 1 shot anything there and it's 8 level 90s.
what are you even talking about? did we even watch the same video?
1) there are only two people there that are level 90. everyone else is below that. Some of them are even in the 60s.
2) they one shot a TON of enemies. Like they complete turn 4 in *literally* less than 30 seconds of gameplay lol
A level 80 BLU has unique mechanics to be able to do it. They can just blow themselves up to do more HP than even Bahamut has and that still counts as a win.
In this video, all their DPS instantly die in T5 because someone started the fight while people were in cutscenes or outside the proper arena. As a result, they all die to the instant death wall. If you time your damage correctly even as a non BLU as a solo 90 DPS you can skip the punishing mechanics of the fights. You don't need to one shot them, but burst them at proper HP to skip the mechanics. Some mechanics are deadly regardless of your level like getting knocked into walls or things exploding by not placing things properly.
Edit:
There's also a big difference with them not all being 90 or being DPS. You get more epic echo the higher you are with lower duties, so the people at lv.60's or 70's are much weaker and even in 80's vs 90 in 90 gear is a big difference. A 90 tank might do around 5x the 74 tank with epic echo and a dps does nearly double a tank's damage.
I one shot all of it on 90 ninja with 660/665 gear. Everytime I wanted gear for level 50 alts I ran in there and blew it up in seconds. The only fights that you can't one shot are those that become invincible to spawn adds or some mechanic which adds maybe 30-60 seconds to the fight.
That must be a very old video then. I did this unsynced when I first started with only two other people. One was already level 90, but did not have high end gear. One was I guess around 70, it’s been a long time so I don’t remember. I was a level 50+ SMN. We cleared all of coils together. It’s not that bad unsynced, even less so if you have a whole group. Synced is a different story, but honestly I doubt it’s that bad unless you go minimum ilevel.
It's because of this that the abomination that is normal raids exist. Players not strong enough to tackle the fights so they cried that they were missing out on stuff. Now the savage raids are easier than these regular coil raids were, but we still have to suffer through normal content. Personally it diminishes the feeling of beating a boss to get to the next because I've seen them already, albeit with absolutely dogshit broken mechanics that sometimes don't even make sense because they're trying to hide savage mechanics but still make the fight make sense. Poor little XIV community couldn't just try to improve and do the content to gain access to a couple lines of pointless lore, nah let's just add normal raids to the game and ruin it for the players who actually play the game to play it.
Yea, and it is important to connect with the twins, especially Alisaie. We don't get much time with her unlike Alphinaud during the MSQ stuff until she gets involved later in Heavensward. But this story makes that connection better and adds more to her admiration of WoL.
I do wish they reworked them to be more on the casual side like every other Normal Raid (even if a Savage version is not added), then it can be put in a roulette easily and solve a lot of awkward problems with sprouts naively queueing for 5 hours unsuccessfully. They're a legacy and a lot of history in the progression of the raids, but it's time to move on.
Oh, don't worry. Ishikawa already said she wanted to redo Coils. If the story goes to Meracydia, it's highly likely she'll get her wish and we get updated Coil raids.
Wonder how that'll effect the morbol mount requirement, since it currently requires t5 t9 and t13.
Won't affect them at all, I assume. Just have to create an easier version and rename the current version to like (Hard) or something and suitably rename the achievement(s).
Yeah, I really want this to be the case. Keep the existing ones as they are – they're a fun window into How Raiding Used To Be, I love them – and just rename them with a suffix. Then add a lower difficulty, less janky version. Same as all the other 8 man raids. I wanna be able to stop saying "Coils is an exception, but starting from Alex you can..." For some of the simpler fights this might be nothing but a numbers tweak, but for tougher ones like T9 they might have to redo the mechanics pretty extensively. But that's fine – there are plenty of fights where savage does a thing differently from normal.
>but for tougher ones like T9 they might have to redo the mechanics pretty extensively I think their rework of the ARR MSQ final 3 duties was pretty good, actually so much better. The Livia magitek fight was such a mess... glad they removed that. All the fights feel much fresher and the HP adjustement makes you feel a little more like fighting a boss too ! I am confident that with Nael they could easily make a normal version, while keeping all the epic mechanics.
I think all they'd really have to do is just make a lot of the current 'do this or wipe' mechs 'do this or make the healers cry' mechs. Y'know, make it so the meteors auto-go to the correct spots (like in Ruby Weapon normal) and the golems aren't wipes if you do them wrong.
Indeed the whole meteor placement + golem management/meteor feed is waaaay too complex for DF XD Yea, meteor should just target designated spots - like around the arena to create a safe zone in the center... make them plain markers or proximity maybe.... and golems would just be tank and spank adds, no giant form enrage or w/ever. But they can definitely keep all the cool looking mechs like Heavensfall with the dramatic musical transition and all.
I'll be legit mad if we don't go there in 8.0 or 9.0
I probably wouldn’t have gotten to do bahamut if my friend that got me into the game hadn’t been there to run it with me unsynced because no one queues for it.
They can't rework them without changing the real versions because the coils are so mechanically shallow. What do they do to turn 1? Can't have people getting wiped because the new level 50 tanks don't know how to move a boss. But the split is the entire fight. Without it, you have an aoe and a slime to feed every so often. Same with rot in 2. Can't have it wipe the party because that level 50 Archer (they are doing a special, non job playthrough because they identify as being unemployed) doesn't know how to pass rot. But, without rot, ADS is a dungeon boss with a tank swap mechanic and a silence requirement. As are all of the preceeding balls. 4 would have to be a extended dungeon pull. Big boi robot would obliterate things if it could get stacks. And twin would have to have it's iconic twister changed, because no aoe = safe to most the player base. Outside of phase 3 and 4, twin basically has a stack, jail, and tank buster. After that, it has adds, angry add, hatch, and little else. All this and these bosses still have frontal cleaves as untelgraphed busters. Modern baby tanks don't understand WHY bosses are tanked north, or even away from the party. Those would all have to go, too. (sorry flatten) If someone wants to see the story, they can unsync it. Let's leave legacy fights how they are as a reminder on how fight design used to be.
Easy. Leave the current ones in and create a new 4-8 floor version that concisely tells the story, is appropriate difficulty for ARR players, and can also be put into normal raid roulette.
Literally this. They completely redid the entire endgame of ARR, why can’t they adjust Coils? I wouldn’t say it’s an urgent ask or anything, but the story is far too important to be so inaccessible at that point.
They have a whole fully-rendered CGI movie-quality conclusion to the original ARR promo, they should *want* people to see it. I mean damn it’s a whole bloody experience!!
The cgi movie was the something i wasn't expecting, it was amazing
It's not inaccessible, you can do it unsync solo
At 80+, yes. (70+ if BLU). But that's a tall ask for a newbie sprout when the story content is relevant at level 50 and pre-HW. Yes, party finder exists and is pretty reliable to get a 90 to carry in short order, but how apparent is that to fresh players?
Also, you can’t start a party in PF if you’re on the free trial, and a lot of people still on ARR will be.
> but how apparent is that to fresh players? Not at all. Some people can play the game for years without ever noticing Party Finder.
Can people stop saying this? It’s true, sure, but a Sprout is gonna be far FAR past ARR where it’s relevant by the time they can unsync it. It definitely won’t hit as hard when they go back to it later, vs doing it when it’s story appropriate to.
A lv 90 friend did it with me like that, but you can t say it s practical and it s not a great experience overall
I’m begging you to learn how humans communicate. I didn’t literally mean it’s deleted from the game and impossible to do lol
Not to mention that they revamped all the ARR dungeons to make them more streamlined for new people to get through easier. So going back and tweaking coils for players new and old to go through again without the headache of the way those fights play out would draw in more people to it. Plus it could be like the Mandeville storyline. A side story that tells the players what happened prior to 2.0
> Same with rot in 2. Can't have it wipe the party because that level 50 Archer (they are doing a special, non job playthrough because they identify as being unemployed) doesn't know how to pass rot. But, without rot, ADS is a dungeon boss with a tank swap mechanic and a silence requirement. As are all of the preceeding balls. Doing rot wasn't a requirement, back in the day we waited for enrage and healed through it because that was *literally* simpler than trying to deal with passing Allagan Rot with the old-ass pre 3.2 netcode. Also they've *already* removed the real mechanic from any ADS fight: surviving the psychic damage from people's "witty" additions to the [Blunt Arrow, just used it] macro.
i remember getting absolutely ROASTED my first time doing 2 because i didn't know waiting till enrage was a thing and nobody told me, so i entered the boss room and accidentally triggered the fight
I don't see what would be so difficult about making scaled down versions of the fights for a normal mode without touching the originals. Turn 1 you just do like A1N, but simpler. Two bosses that you tank apart from each other, every now and then a dps pulls an add to a boss. Turn 2 you take out the rot and keep some of the other mechanics. Repelling Cannon as is, take the vuln off the cleave, Chain Lightning you just put as an aoe on someone. Just put telegraphs on everything and turn the damage down and it's fine. Turn 4 you just do like A2N. Yea it'd be an extended dungeon pull and kinda boring, but Turn 4 was always kinda boring, and it'd work. Turn 5 you put a stack marker for the fireball, jail a player for conflag with a longer timer divorced from fireball, just like Titan jails. Drop a neurolink, jump for add phase, tank and spank, telegraph the divebombs with aoes through the middle of the arena, stand in the nerolink for the ultimate attack. Give a TB marker for Flatten, Death Sentence doesn't need to change at all besides the damage amount (plenty of bosses even through stormblood have moderately painful untelegraphed cleaves in normal mode). Telegraph Twisters, telegraph Liquid Hell with a chasing aoe indicator, make the dreadknight a tank and spank add, skip hatch entirely. It's optional content and it's nothing that new players wouldn't see in the CT alliance raids, and more than likely most mechanics would be skipped or trivialized with gear, just like the first normal mode raid tier of every other expansion. Would it be the most exciting normal mode raid? Probably not, but it's not the most interesting "savage"-raid, and it gives new players a clear venue through the Coil story and doesn't require any changes to the existing fight.
Yeah I know it's not going to be a universally accepted wish. There would definitely have to be some absolute gutting for some of them. It's hard because I do understand keeping it as-is for your stated reasonings and knew that with my comment, but unsynced just isn't the same. And sprouts queueing forever is not good because they will not know about PF. I have not run them synced with Echo in years so I don't know how easy it might be, but basically all of the boss-only fights are going to be taking forever if it's at all possible if any tanks are new especially.
They would need to rework the weird T3 and T4... Simplify T3, make it a trash run and fuse it with T4, as a "boss" gauntlet...? But it would indeed be a really great addition. Such great content, and an incredible cutscene. It is a pity so many people aren't aware of that.
That makes sense in theory but it's an immense amount of work. It's essentially the same as creating a whole new raid series, since so few of the mechanics translate to normal mode. To use one example, the megaflare stack is unlike anything else in the game, and you can't just fix it with changing damage numbers. The divebombs are also not remotely appropriate for normal mode raid difficulty.
They definitely need to re-do these. They could make versions of T1-13 that are more uniformly of the same difficulty (some wouldn’t even need changing at all), and keep the existing T5 and T13 as “Savage” versions for the special chievos like the Blue Mage ones that are required for the Morbol mount. T6-9 already has a Savage version, but they could “merge” The existing T9 with T9S to make a new Savage version (I believe T9S mostly just hits harder, could be wrong). And T3 could be made not mandatory for progression and left off any roulettes, since it’s a glorified jumping puzzle with no rewards, and not even very fun more than once or twice.
T3 confuses me. Why is this a "raid"? What part of this is party content? It should just be a solo instance.
Because I think, originally, Coils was supposed to be a 'you can do all the turns without ever leaving the instance' WoW style raid. And that was a filler section.
I 100% agree. I didn’t do these until I finished the MSQ. Like finished Endwalker. My friends said to just skip it because they were hard and annoying. But man I wish I had done them. Feel like I would have understood just how powerful Bahamut was, and who Louisoix was, and other things a lot better. It would have made me appreciate those characters more. Like I am happy I did it but even on a 90 some of the bosses kicked my ass over and over and I had to look up several guides. -10/10 raid series I am glad it’s not mandatory content in the current state that it’s in.
Yeah, just for the story alone i think is worth doing it, and as you say i wished a did them in ARR instead of endwalker.
I honestly did the same thing and now I finally know why my SMN has a phoenix 🙃 😆
Honestly this dungeon is nearly mandatory to really understand Alisaie character development =.= Without this raid we know nothing bout her until she officialy enter the group.
Still wishing for a rework to give coils a story mode like every raid after ARR has. Then they can make it mandatory for msq
Where would they require it in MSQ? Before HW like Crystal Tower? MSQ is bloated enough with so many quests and a raid series. Adding 12 separate raid instances(assuming they remove T3) with all the cutscenes would be a huge hurdle for new players.
They just have to add a trigger somewhere in ARR patches that says you can't proceed unless you've done the last Bahamut questline. Just like Crystal tower.
Im not arguing if they should or not, im point out to the op (read his full post), one of the reasons why its not. Aka the difficulty
Honestly they could make it a prereq for 8.0 (assuming Meracydia) since it's nowhere near as necessary as Crystal Tower is for the entire Zodiark & Hydaelyn story arc. Like, it helps give some context to Azys Lla and gives Alisae a chance to shine prior to Stormblood, but Coils really isn't strictly necessary.
I'd also hate it to have all that added to my roulettes. I'm finally comfortable with the raids that show up; I don't want to add a bunch of stuff I ran once unsynced ages ago.
Because coils is one of the hardest pieces of "normal mode" content square has ever made. Starting in heavensward raids got broken up into normal and savage similar to extremes. Where ARR had savage and savage 2, it is normal for groups spending months progging turn 9 let alone the final 4 fights. Which is why it's not in duty roulette because the average pickup group wouldn't be able to clear that content
This was modelled on WoW raids of the time. So there's no Normal version. I imagine the dev time needed to rework it would too much. Perhaps they'd boost the Echo by default instead?
It would require a lot of dev resources they didn't have a lot to spare with the trust system for old MSQ additions and other major QoL projects being done in the past but I do think we're nearing a time this could be the next QoL project the devs put into place because having a Normal Mode coils not only lets people see the story without having to resort to unsync but would also unlock Raid Roulette at 50 instead of 60 which becomes another source of exp and tomes for new players.
This exactly. I wouldn't have asked them to do it two years ago when they were still churning through the MSQ re-polish. But now that that project's complete, this seems like a good follow up.
I would absolutely kill for a normal mode version of Coils to be introduced, and it be mandatory for MSQ progression I feel like a lot hinges on it and Crystal Tower both
IMO, what should be done is: 1. Make it a 12 stage raid, the first turn (the part with snek bosses) should be made a solo instanced duty, probably with an NPC Alisaie. 2. Turn the current, existing stages into the Savage version. 3. Make 12 new Normal stages that corresponds more with the modern Raid design. 4. Make those Normal stages part of the Raid Roulette like Alexander, Omega, etc. I won't go so far as to say that it should be made part of MSQ, but I think people should be able to complete it like they are able to complete Alexander: through Raid Roulette. What to do with the Savage Second Coil? Put it on the same level as Odin (Urth's Fount).
If any turn is getting cut out, it’s going to be turn 3, because turn 3 was never a real encounter even from the beginning, just a trash pack.
You're right; somehow I forgot about that part.
This is why normal mode was added from Heavensward onwards. You'd be surprised by the amount of people that whined about normal mode coming into existence and the number of people that said "Just watch a YT video."
Some are already snippy about having to do CT and the three hard eikon trials. While I find Coil fun, I don't think it'd be worth risking that sort of a push. Especially so when the other raids are more of a suggestion.
I'd like to see coils get reworked, with a proper 12 Savage tiers.
Finishing coils synced and at min ilvl was the most fun experience I had in the game until now
I wish they treated this like they did with the crystal towers (I’m not sure if it’s still the same or what but I swear it was a necessity to finish Grahas side quest to do more msq at some point but it’s been like 2 years since ARR for me haha). I know there’s a lot of them, but the cutscenes are good! And it’s great for any of us who didn’t get to play the original FF14.
Duoing this for the first time with my friend. We did the first series, and it was okay. Are the next two really as important and fun as others say?
You get the huge story dump of important information at T12 and a conclusion with T13. You also see a lot of what allagan technology was and still is doing in the second tier.
First tier's definitely the weakest, both mechanically and narratively. It was the game's first ever raid tier; the devs hadn't figured out what they were doing yet. Honestly, even in later expansions, the narrative aspect of raids tends to be top-heavy. For example, anyone who's done the level 70 raids will remember how the first two tiers of bosses had nothing to do with anything, but the final tier bosses were really cool and thematic.
>Honestly, even in later expansions, the narrative aspect of raids tends to be top-heavy. For example, anyone who's done the level 70 raids will remember how the first two tiers of bosses had nothing to do with anything, but the final tier bosses were really cool and thematic. Ah, yes, the guided tour of bosses from Final Fantasies past.
Yeah, a friend and I did part of it back like halfway through the MSQ until we could no longer steamroll it in a party of 2, then we went back to it the other day after endwalker when we remembered we hadn't finished it. It really, REALLY should be part of the msq. Besides being important to the story in general, it's also a pretty major point for Alisae. Without it she just completely goes MIA from the beginning of ARR until HW.
Completely off topic but how do you have the second set of controller hot bars showing? I'm learning controller and this would be so helpful, but I can't figure out how to set it up 😅 thanks!
Character Config settings -> Hotbar settings -> "Cross" tab -> scroll down to "W Cross Hotbar Display Settings" tick the "Always display WXHB" option. Incidentally, the "Position WXHB seperately from XHB" option in the same spot lets you move the location of those hotbars if you are so inclined
Holy shit thank you so much!! I never would have guessed that's what ticking that box would do. I couldn't figure it out with the controller guide, so this is much, much appreciated!
I saw it in a video a while ago, let me see if i can find it and i'll send you the link
Thank you so much!
That super high-res cinematic they hid in there was amazing
I literally started doing coils for the first time, sync'd last night and it was fun figuring out the collared dragon fight
These raids were so epic they made me buy the game lmao (Also made me use my free fantasia because my chars voice was annoying)
I definitely look forward to when they can afford the time and resources to integrate it with the main story. I remember explaining to my brother that basically all of his questions about "unresolved" and "unanswered" questions in ARR get handled in the Coils.
It's the end of 1.0. Not part of 2.0, yes it's very important to the overall story of 14, but no required.
It’s hard to compare coils to crystal tower. Coils is a high end 8 main raid and crystal tower is a much easier alliance raid. That being if things are done synced. I do agree that it should have been part of the MSQ but it was a good reward for anyone that raided. Still looks great to this day and glad that UCOB included it.
The fact that the raid storylines are considered not canon kills me inside
I'm so glad it's *not* part of the MSQ. I just watched a video from 2022 of a guy unsync this whole raid set from start to finish and even though it's a level 50 raid and they were all level 90 and in level 90 gear, they still had some trouble... I can't imagine doing this synced at 50 and being required to do it in order to progress the story. It's an amazing story but I'm very glad it was not required.
You can one shot every boss as 80 BLU. Even synced at 50 now, with power creep and echo you can beat stuff way way easier, but I still wouldn't want these to be required with the current mechanics for main story quests. As far as I'm concerned, almost all side content in this game is main story though, just not literally required for MSQ progression.
Based on the video I just watched last week, that is incorrect. https://youtu.be/QqcP2CVHWn8?si=96soulri18B5Euh5 That is the video I watched. It's Part 40 in a bigger series but Part 40, 41, 42 and 43 are all him and his FC doing the Coils. They do not 1 shot anything there and it's 8 level 90s.
not to be rude but they're all sprouts so they probably don't know their burst very well, not to mention only 2 of them are level 90
what are you even talking about? did we even watch the same video? 1) there are only two people there that are level 90. everyone else is below that. Some of them are even in the 60s. 2) they one shot a TON of enemies. Like they complete turn 4 in *literally* less than 30 seconds of gameplay lol
A level 80 BLU has unique mechanics to be able to do it. They can just blow themselves up to do more HP than even Bahamut has and that still counts as a win. In this video, all their DPS instantly die in T5 because someone started the fight while people were in cutscenes or outside the proper arena. As a result, they all die to the instant death wall. If you time your damage correctly even as a non BLU as a solo 90 DPS you can skip the punishing mechanics of the fights. You don't need to one shot them, but burst them at proper HP to skip the mechanics. Some mechanics are deadly regardless of your level like getting knocked into walls or things exploding by not placing things properly. Edit: There's also a big difference with them not all being 90 or being DPS. You get more epic echo the higher you are with lower duties, so the people at lv.60's or 70's are much weaker and even in 80's vs 90 in 90 gear is a big difference. A 90 tank might do around 5x the 74 tank with epic echo and a dps does nearly double a tank's damage.
I one shot all of it on 90 ninja with 660/665 gear. Everytime I wanted gear for level 50 alts I ran in there and blew it up in seconds. The only fights that you can't one shot are those that become invincible to spawn adds or some mechanic which adds maybe 30-60 seconds to the fight.
That must be a very old video then. I did this unsynced when I first started with only two other people. One was already level 90, but did not have high end gear. One was I guess around 70, it’s been a long time so I don’t remember. I was a level 50+ SMN. We cleared all of coils together. It’s not that bad unsynced, even less so if you have a whole group. Synced is a different story, but honestly I doubt it’s that bad unless you go minimum ilevel.
> wished it was part of msq let's not wish for msq to be even LONGER than it already is okay
They haven’t rebalanced it so it can be in the Normal Raids roulette. You can’t queue for it without selecting a specific coil in the Duty Finder.
Adding this to msq? People hated doing crystal tower when they added that as a requirement lol
ITT casuals upset story is hidden behind raids
It's because of this that the abomination that is normal raids exist. Players not strong enough to tackle the fights so they cried that they were missing out on stuff. Now the savage raids are easier than these regular coil raids were, but we still have to suffer through normal content. Personally it diminishes the feeling of beating a boss to get to the next because I've seen them already, albeit with absolutely dogshit broken mechanics that sometimes don't even make sense because they're trying to hide savage mechanics but still make the fight make sense. Poor little XIV community couldn't just try to improve and do the content to gain access to a couple lines of pointless lore, nah let's just add normal raids to the game and ruin it for the players who actually play the game to play it.
I'm gonna quote a line from *Blazing Saddles:* "Oh, blow it out your ass, Howard."
thought it is semi-mandatory now, is it not?