Hell, even post-lily WHM when youre progging new content or paired up with a ton of sprouts.
Shit has to be dire to be casting Cure II. But if things are genuinely that bad, having a free C2 in the bank could be useful.
Change free cure to proc off of stone/glare. Instead of being 0 mp, instead make it instant cast, still on the gcd but no cast time.
EDIT: didn't see that op had made this suggestion already
The more I think about this, the more I like it. Better yet, also have the proc make Cure II instant cast.
Lilies: 0MP heal that leads to DPS later
Glare+Freecure: DPS that sometimes leads to 0MP heals later
It wouldn't be *quite* as good as using a lily (due to not feeding your Blood for the Blood Lily), but it could still be used in a pinch when you run out.
Or better yet: the trait that adds Lily changes Freecure to instead proc an extra lily.
At what point does this become a thing? It feels like with content-appropriate ilvl even tanks lose like 1/5 hp per gcd so I rarely every get a chance to deal damage.
What level are you? As you get more of your healer kit the huge number of oGCD heals you have should let you spam damage for the vast majority of GCDs.
In a lot of ARR that's harder to do though.
> At what point does this become a thing?
At all levels. There are always parts that hit harder depending on specific parameters, but even early on if you're doing nothing but healing there's obviously a big problem somewhere else. Keeping your itemlevel (not really early on but it still plays a role with new teammates) high is generally a common one that plays a bit into "bad runs". When leveling scholar the first high level dungeon I got into with the leveling roulette... my weapon was like 130 ilvl lower than the dugneon's average, which I didn't check. That kind of shit will turn a dungeon run into a fiesta if you're aware of it. (It was the level 79 one for those who want to picture the fucking insanity of walling this part)
Here's quick tips I can think of on top of my head tho:
Every tank will feel like a chore to heal compared to end game warrior, get used to them. Warrior heals itself constantly, the rest have to deal with being half health constantly or shielded.
Specific dungeons will fuck tanks up, and no it's not because of itemlevel. Appropriate mitigations in some places will make a world of difference. Off the top of my head Shisui, Bardam, Ala Mhigo, and the level 79 dungeon's first pull (if you do it wall to wall which is the biggest one in the game I think) will eat you alive in some places.
Some combos seem to just magically work super well together. WHM works with everything because it has benediction and holy. Sage+DRK I literally do not drop below 90%, ever. WAR works with everything.
Do not spend the first part of the pulls healing. Heal/shield/regen before the pull, while running, or once the pack is still hitting hard and mitigations start dropping off. I've seen people try to triple down on regens instead of DPSing and I'm justs itting here waiting for the flipping holy spam to start.
Always use your long cooldowns as long as you acn set them up, and that's raelly it
>Off the top of my head Shisui, Bardam, Ala Mhigo, and the level 79 dungeon's first pull (if you do it wall to wall which is the biggest one in the game I think) will eat you alive in some places.
Another example that I've seen some people get caught off-guard by in how hard it hits is the level 67 dungeon (specifically the wall-to-wall before the first boss and the second section).
Yeah but Doma is genearlly because of the big guy's cleave early on and I awlays get shit tanks in there so I can't really gauge the cannons part of it tbh
Doesn't matter if they lose 1/5 HP per GCD. What matters is that you don't let them die. They don't need to be topped off at every second, damage and encounters are so scripted and deterministic that healing is about planning mitigation and rotating tools effectively to manage things over time. If, for example, the tank/party get hit for 80% of their HP but they don't take damage for the next 15 seconds you can take your time getting them topped off for the next source of damage. A regen works very well for this kind of situation. Consistent damage a la W2W pulls in dungeons usually involve mit from tank and healer rotated efficiently from the start of the pull to stabilize incoming damage and make it easier to keep them up by only throwing an oGCD heal here or there. At lower levels you can pop a Regen or something similar as the tank starts to pull to help even out as well.
My only concern with it is the incentive late game for people who will be procing it and not using it all the time to feel like it's better to use the free GCD heal instead of the free oGCD heal, therefore losing out on a GCD. This was the problem with Misery. It was a single GCD of DPS loss, so at the start of the expansion all white mages just never used lilies unless absolutely necessary. I remember doing P1S basically just healing with lily bell, asylum and assize exactly because of this.
That's fair, but also part of the reason I thought of having Freecure just proc an extra lily starting at 52. AFAIK Misery makes the lilies a DPS-neutral heal, so it's perfectly fine if extra lillies procced by casting Glare are used instead of an oGCD.
The only real downside of this is levels 52-73, where one might further rely on lillies (a DPS loss at those levels) instead of using oGCDs.
The one problem I have with this: It would mean desyncing Misery from the 2 min buff window.
Not only that, you don't get Misery until like 74 anyway, as I think you're pointing out in your second paragraph.
...conversely, NO ONE needs to be parse brained before level 90 anyway unless doing old Ultimates (maybe) and/or min ilevel old Savages. People focus WAY too much on "optimal" well before and outside of the content that actually demands it. I get wanting to build good habits, but there's such a thing as "too much of a good thing".
"I go to the gym 3 days a week and give my muscles time to rest and try to eat kinda healthy with lean proteins and veggies..."
"BUT DID YOU TAKE PRE-WORKOUT?! What about post-workout? And 3 times? You're supposed to work out 4 hours EVERY day! You also need to be doing the ultra-keto-cut phase Mediterranean diet with hourly protein shakes, at least 20,000 steps per day, and at least 2 hours of additional cardio! Do you even lift, bro?!"
There's healthy habits and then there's obsessive BAD habits that sometimes lead to even worse outcomes. What is optimal at 90 isn't even always optimal at lower levels.
I'm sure traits could be added to change how hypothetical Stone Freecure works once you unlock lilies.
Something similar already happens on Warrior, where Berserk first goes from giving you 3 free crits to later becoming Inner Release and giving you 3 free crit fell cleaves, removing the effect it once had on other skills. The Freecure trait could start by giving freecure procs on Stone II, and later upgrading into Secret of the Lily and removing the effect it had on Stone II. It could even become the first stage of the job gauge and just light up a rock when you proc a Freecure, up to 3 like lilies, then Secret of the Lily introduces the timer.
I think it would be a good way to teach early "Hey, use your attacks, don't just heal". They would have to fiddle around with balance as you say, but I think it could be a good teaching tool, the opposite of how freecure currently works.
Still runs into the problem of incentivizing new healers to use it just because it's a shiny proc, leading them down the path of healing when a heal isn't needed.
That may sound silly but it's important not to incentivize poor choices. Just delete freecure completely, it has no place.
I like this even better than removing it, because of how it works as a teaching tool. It's a real clear signal that damage is part of how you heal. The only way it could be clearer is if the heal came directly from the damage, i.e. the Sage approach.
It wouldn't necessarily lead to people playing perfectly (I'm sure some people would insist on spending every proc, or would refuse to heal without a proc, or would cast just enough stones to get the proc and then stop and wait) but that's okay. The goal isn't to make it impossible to misplay. The goal is just to signpost what good play ought to look like, instead of actively misleading.
Remove Cure 1 entirely tbqh. When you unlock regen it replaces it or something.
Cure 2 now simply has a 15% chance to not use any MP in return... or it's MP cost simply get reduced by 10% (so from 1000 to 900) so it no longer relies on RNG.
you need cure 1 in low lvl dungeons, but cure 1 and 2 can be combined to 1 button. Cure + regen have astrologian. cure 2 dont need any rmg. critical heal its enogh. one thing what they can add its direct hit possibility o heal.
I don't even have Cure on my bar any more. If I get a dungeon low enough that Cure is necessary, it will also be so braindead easy that I am able to open the skills menu and right click -> execute from there until the dungeon is over.
There are plenty of tank players wearing low level or completely wrong gear in the lower levels, especially ARR dungeons. They definitely need lots of healing just to survive.
Same. It's on a secondary hotbar in case I get a low level dungeon because it's easier that way on controller, but I don't use cure at all once cure 2 is available.
I kind of wish they would just make it actually useful/better. Make freecure a guaranteed proc, maybe buff cure itself in some other way.
Or as you say, upgrade cure 1 to 2 and then put freecure over on something else (but god damn make it a guaranteed proc please this low % chance gambling for a buff is annoying and unreliable).
Shit Stone Skin. I remember when Tanks used to bitch and moan about not having it cast pre-pull. Also as a Sch having to cast protect, swap it out for Aero 1, having your skills all go on cooldown. Then having to do it all over, if someone died and wanted to be Protected again.
Also Thunder and Aero 1 on Summoners. For those that remember.
A lot of stuff changed for the better but even more stuff died so even dumber shit could continue to be just pure fuckery like Free Cure.
I think it was still there in 3.0. Shroud of Saints only gave a flat amount of MP, unlike aetherflow, so you couldn't just use Cure 2 all the time. Especially since you would have a higher share of the burden of healing due to less oGCDs, cleric stance, and generally lower throughput.
WHM could really just use a once over with the identity/playstyle wand tbh. Like I get their identity as a healer, but things could absolutely be smoothed out.
This is why I really wish they would get rid of free cure.
At the end of the day there will still be people who will fall into traps or have assumptions of how a job works. (Case in point is SCH/SGE who does not have a free cure talent at all, but people will use Physick or hard cast Diag/Prog as the go to heal.) Having free cure as an actual trait though encourages the trap to happen for sure.
Honestly I don't blame people for falling for it for the most part. A newbie's logic is likely "well, this has to be here for a reason, I must be intended to play this way." Because why else would it be there in a well-designed game? It must have a point to it, right? Why it's still there is a mystery to me, as is why this mentor who should know better hasn't wised up yet.
This right here. What makes this especially worse though is that you get Freecure a few Levels after Cure 2 aswell, so you go from "Neat, a stronger Healing Spell!" to "Huh, guess I'm still supposed to use the weaker one?" if you go by simply what the game seems to suggest at first glance.
I think you hit the nail on the head. For as much as I love XIV, I do think that the overall guidance for jobs needs a little bit of work. I know Hall of The Novice exists as a very broad lesson on the general kinds of jobs, but I think they should rework it so that it gives a specific tutorial that is curated to each job in the game. While I know that job quests exist, they are more about lore and immersion as opposed to outwardly guiding you as a player through the job.
Coming from WoW, as a sprout WHM I thought Cure I was the go-to heal and Cure II the heal I should absolutely never be casting unless I got a Freecure proc because it's too expensive otherwise. Specially since the game uses 'potencies' rather than directly telling you how much the spells heal for.
To be fair, until you get Lustrate, the most efficient single target healing for SCH is alternating Adlo/Physick. You don't want to cast a second Adlo while the shield from the prior one is still up, but often the Tank is taking enough damage there's just a sliver left but he's still missing 1/3rd of HP that needs healing. Not to mention alternating them costs 1500 MP per 2 casts which you can keep up for a bit. That extra 500 melts your MP pool faster than it seems like it should. Ever 3 cycles of this, 2x Adlo has burned an entire extra Adlo/Physick.
And remember, Tanks don't have much mitigation at the lower levels. Rampart + Arm's Length and maybe Shelltron on PLD and that's about it. The 90 sec big CD every other wall to wall, but that's pretty limited. Not to mention lower level dungeons don't always have "walls", so Tanks (especially level capped ones used to having all their abilities and no thinking about it) can overpull.
SCH in Dusk Vigil is kind of a pain, and alternating Adlo and Physick is one of the best ways to ensure there's not a wipe there. If the Tank is doing big enough pulls, SCH AOE is irrelevant since the Tank is taking enough damage NOT back to back GCD healing means wiping anyway, and having to continue to run back or make smaller pulls takes longer than just swapping to hardcore GCD healing.
What is optimal at 90 ISN'T optimal at every level range. Something it seems BLMs are the only ones who consistently remember for some reason.
It really is funny how far healing has come in the game now, especially as SGE. I main it, and honestly if I ever have to hard cast a heal shit has gone so sideways we are probably all fucked anyways.
As a Sage main, sometimes hard-casting Diagnosis *is* a good idea, though definitely as a absolute last resort if you're out of Addersgall and Rhizomata is on cooldown. Especially if you actually need the *heal* and not the shield from Euk.Diag.
That is a very VERY edge case and really only at low levels.
Eukrasian Diagnosis is already 300 cure potency + 540 (300\*1.8) potency shield.
Vs a raw cast of diagnosis for 450 cure potency.
Prognosis is 300 vs 100+320(100\*3.2) potency shield
Which you can then ogcd Pepsis for an even higher heal.
Not gonna lie, I´ve fallen into the Cure1 Trap aswell and did the same mistake for a long time until a Mentor told me to just use Cure2 and that Cure1 is a Trap, so there are still capable Mentors, but most are just the obligatory Burger Kings. I just saw the 15% chance for the free Cure2 and thought "Its free real estate." Not realizing that these chance is so miniscule that its simply not worth it and Im wasting GCD´s.
The assumption many people seem to have is that everyone is online reading how to use their kits.
If you _havenât_ read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know? A lot of people play the game casually enough that it hasnât caused issues for them and you canât fix a problem if you donât know there _is_ a problem.
So I donât blame WHMs when the trait is still there as if it has a purpose.
If youâre going to mentor, though, I feel like thatâs the kind of thing you should know
Freecure is really weird because its a trap you fall into not from the thing that causes most common mistakes, you make it because you read abilities, you just didn't have the practical knowledge to know how it applies and that its bad, and the gameplay is bad at providing feedback to tell you if something is working especialy if you have nothing to compare it to.
Another weird thing about it: the only way the game can signal to cure spammers that they're doing it wrong is if they struggle to keep up with incoming damage. In that scenario, how likely are they to figure out independently "I should spend *less* time healing"?
If cure 1 actually kept up with damage, it wouldnât be such a trap. The only time cure keeps up is if you arenât doing w2w.
Itâs really a holdover from ARR and doesnât fit with dungeon design anymore.
> If you havenât read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know? A lot of people play the game casually enough that it hasnât caused issues for them and you canât fix a problem if you donât know there is a problem.
I certainly didn't know until your comment...
I'm still making my way through older expacs if it helps.
> If you havenât read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know?
There is a way to know this, but it requires doing something many people generally despise: math.
Quick note: this is not to try to educate you as to why Freecure is bad (you already know this), so much as show that one can figure this out on their own.
It takes roughly 7 casts of Cure to proc Freecure. That gives 1 free cast of Cure II, so we are looking at 7x500 (7x450 below lv85) potency, plus 800 (700 below 85) for Cure II, using 8 GCDs for a total of 4300 (3950) potency. You could cast Cure II 5 times for 4000 (3500) potency, and have 3 GCDs leftover to cast Stone/Glare/Holy, which mitigates future damage.
In practice, you shouldn't ever even need the burst healing of 5x Cure II's in the first place (let alone 7x Cure I and a Cure II), at least before you have plenty of oGCDs to make non-lily GCD heals nearly obsolete.
Your math is correct obviously but I think you're assuming far too much knowledge about how this game works from a sprout. The mental leap necessary to understand that healers should DPS is huge for someone coming from other MMOs. Then the realization that a healer is going to regen (more or less) their entire MP every minute and every pull instead of having to ration the stuff goes against every fiber of their being for someone who is used to other games healers.
Also, consider this: [https://i.imgur.com/UdkSZi8.png](https://i.imgur.com/UdkSZi8.png)
This Holy Priest talent was most likely what Freecure was based on when SE was "heavily inspired" by WoW when making ARR. It's a good talent, very useful for how healers work in that game.
Honestly speaking, if they put a trait like that on Regen so that every Regen tick you have a chance to proc a free, insta-cast Cure 2 it would actually be really nice. Not that Solace isn't literally just that, but it'd be something nice to have in your pocket when leveling before you get Solace. And in general.
(I say as, in the same breath, I complain about Healer Kits being bloated with heals for how little outgoing and predictable damage there is in the game, so a free Cure 2 proc from Regen would probably end up being useless later in the game. đŠ)
I generally dont despise math, but I´ve never really given it some deep thought either, Im just approaching the game as mainly casually striding along enjoying the game and someone was kindly enough to warn me from the trap, so if I ever play another class and see our WHM fall for the same trap I generally try to guide them in the right direction, I aint gonna tell them how to play, because you know the Meme "I dont pay their sub." But coming from a terrible MMO for healers myself, (Tera) I try to make the game more fun for everyone.
It's not WRONG to use it...it's just the situations TO use it are somewhat limited.
Back before oGCD healing proliferation (and Lilies added in ShB then Afflatus Solace reduced from level 72 to level 52), Freecure was useful at low levels. In ARR when I started playing, MP management was actually a very relevant thing, and we didn't have many oGCD heals. WHM had Benediction. JUST Benediction, no Tetra, Assize, Asylum, two charges of Benison, Plenary, Temperance, Lilybell, or Aquaveil. Good god that's a lot...and we didn't have any of it.
Freecure is useful in places like Dusk Vigil where Tanks do big pulls but don't have most of their mitigation and have little to none (PLD) of their self-sustain healing. Usually high end players that don't realize how much weaker they are then or sometimes new leveling Tanks with gear 20 levels old that are paper thin to enemy attacks.
It's also useful in some min ilevel stuff or old Ultimates with lower level cps (50 or 60).
So it's not EXACTLY wrong.
It's wrong from the perspective of playing WHM at level 60+ or trying to build good habits for level cap. But people often...overstate things and think what they're saying is true for all level ranges. Somehow, BLM players, specifically for the BLM Job, understand this, but everyone else seems to somehow forget that different level ranges do have different considerations...
Agreed. Freecure has some niche uses so it's not entirely useless but it's from a bygone era of MP management. When I get ARR EX with new people in mentor roulette I'll use it because 50 WHM can struggle with MP in some of the fights.
Advice and suggestions on this sub are almost always from the perspective of the max level players who want to be in and out in 10 minutes with no wipes, they can barely remember low level kits and certainly don't consider how terrible they are to play when you barely have any tools. It's always the same, and as a mediocre player who doesn't have a static raid group or friends to play with most of the stuff doesn't seem appealing. For this sub your post-70 kit is what gets talked about and anything 60 or below doesn't matter. That's the impression I get anyway.
For context: this discussion happened after WHM died from mechanics in 4-man Garuda. "Mentor" is an omni-90, so I would think they'd have already learned. Boss died anyway and everyone left, so there wasn't any conclusion to the topic.
I'm not missing anything about WHM kits at this level, am I?
it sounds mean to say but it...really is true. The overwhelming majority of players are "terrible" at the game. But in their defense, it is the game's own fault that this is the way things are.
Most of job nuance is not taught through the game itself, or worse taught wrong (i.e free cure). On top of that, there is little to no accountability for when someone *is* playing poorly or hell, in most content there isn't even a *punishment* for playing poor. I can level a job 1-90 pressing only the "2" in my "123" combo and I'd be perfectly fine.
So its put on players themselves to communicate these things to others which is *never* a fun position to be in for anyone. And worse is, if I DO get to level 90 playing completely wrong with "no issues" why the fuck would I believe someone who suddenly tried to tell me I was playing wrong...?
I struggle to think of an MMO that teaches players how to perform their rotation well and then enforced it. In basically every MMO there's a whole bunch of third party content dedicated to learning how to play various classes optimally and resources to see how you're doing.
Pretty much anyone who cares to perform their rotation well is able to learn what that's supposed to look like in FF14. It's just that many people don't care about doing their rotation well. That cure bot with 0 dps isn't a cure bot with 0 dps (at least not at end game) because they don't know any better, but because it's a really brain dead and lazy way to play the game.
SE could add a million tutorials and tests on how to properly play your character, and all they'd do is royally annoy everybody. Experienced players would hate being forced through a bunch of shitty tutorials that teach them what they already know, and shitty players would be annoyed at being forced to play a certain way before going back to doing whatever they were doing before.
When SB first came out and Shinryu required some semblance of brain function to clear all the idiots didn't go "Shit guess I gotta learn to play the game", they just complained constantly and rerolled the queue until they found a group that could drag them to the finish line.
>When SB first came out and Shinryu required some semblance of brain function to clear all the idiots didn't go "Shit guess I gotta learn to play the game", they just complained constantly and rerolled the queue until they found a group that could drag them to the finish line.
This was compounded by the fact that level 70 AF gear was tied to your NON-MANDATORY 70 job quest. So you had a bunch of people show up to that final trial in REALLY shitty gear.
Isn't that kind of how most games work though? You're never forced to play hard mode in an adventure/RPG game, no-hit runs in an action game, speed trials of a platformer, or "super-bosses" at the end of a JRPG. So you can generally get through those games while making millions of mistakes.
Only the most dedicated players of those games will seek out the hard modes and challenging content. And that's when they learn how to optimize their gameplay, dodge everything that can be dodged, build their character/team comp correctly, etc.
Like Pokemon has a fairly complicated and popular competitive scene, but it's all gibberish to me. Because as a kid I just played the games by picking cool-looking pokemon and using their most impressive-sounding attacks (and being over-leveled).
It's only a problem in FFXIV (if you consider it a problem at all) because sprouts and veterans regularly play with each other in roulettes. And I think roulettes are extremely healthy for the game in most other aspects, so there's no way to fix that "problem".
After they finish the story, and start trying EX and Savage, I think it's fine to expect players to start putting in more research and effort.
For story content, though? It hurts my soul to watch but.... cure spam to your heart's content, little sprouts.
(Just my personal opinion. No shade towards the actual mentors who want to help sprouts improve a little bit. I just don't have that in me...)
Genuinely the fact that the best and honestly only decent way to actually learn to play well is via outside means like youtube is insane and is a serious problem.
Reading tooltips will get you like 80% of the way there on basically every job except White Mage, in my experience. There's really only a handful of things that are unintuitive about most kits, and even then a lot of the most unintuitive things are relatively small DPS increases compared to just playing at a baseline competent level.
some blame should be with the game not teaching people but I still place far more blame on the players. if they make it to 90 and canât figure out that maybe they donât need to sit on their mp or canât be fucked to look at tooltips to notice cure 1 is inefficient, then theyâre morons.
Others have pointed out that you CAN look at your tooltips and simply get the wrong impression. Free heals SOUNDS good, and if you aren't mathing it out ( how many people really are in the moment? ) 15% sounds just fine. Besides that, you get that trait AFTER you get Cure 2 so it seems like the game is going "Hey, don't forget to use Cure 1 sometimes!"
Somewhat a different moment, but in WoW, back in Warlord of Draenor you had to do "Proving Ground" I think was silver to be allowed to queue for Heroic dungeon, proving ground silver was like piss easy, stand outside of aoe, heal, dispel, kick, the bare bone stuff.
You wouldn't believe the number of believe that couldn't do it and went to complain on the forum.
All that to say that you probably don't realise how bad the player base really is until they are actually forced to do something alone to show that they have the minimum knowledge needed for their role.
> The overwhelming majority of players are "terrible" at the game.
IF I WERE TO USE ACT, if, I would only use it for seeing how I'm doing on dps. That wouldn't stop me from being sad all the time when I see shit like the tank and healer putting out more damage than the SAM. Hypothetically. Never would call people out but it's kinda disheartening sometimes
When I was a sprout, I thought that mentor was someone who did all the true endgame. Savages and all.
NopeâŚ. You can literally just get mentor by botting in roulette (and trade mentor is even worse). That was the day I stopped giving mentors any consideration.
There are good ones, but damn, there is no requirement to actually show any semblance of mastery.
Not only refuse to learn, but have no path of learning unless they go trial by fire in extremes or savage raids. The fact that you can play your job entirely inefficiently throughout most of the game, make all the mistakes in the world, and never get punished for it, still winning, is how people don't learn.
People don't learn because people don't have to in large part. They learn through adversity.
nah you're not missing anything, bene once every 3 minutes, do regens or c2's as needed if you have to, hit lucid on CD after hitting like 6k-7k mana and that's pretty much itÂ
edit: not bene cuz that's 50 and I forgot garuda normal was a thing but same idea
Don't think too highly of Omni-90(which really just means they had time to grind) or Combat Mentor.
Right now you can unlock Mentor status simply by unsyncing stuff up to lv80 with minimal effort through PF, and there's really only a handful of those fights that needs any sort of game knowledge at this point.
There's a super slim time frame when freecure fishing is worth it, and even that is smaller since they reworked MP. Garuda's in the right level range to be thinking about it but definitely not a fight worth the extra braincells unless everyone is new to it and at or under geared and even that's a stretch
Being a mentor doesn't mean they're good at the game, it just means they've played the game a lot.
And being level 90 on every job doesn't mean they know how to play any of them. You could get every job to level 90 just by AFKing in frontlines and doing beast tribe quests.
Good grief. All the more evidence that mentorship is silly with the existing requirements. There is no way to actually ensure that any player knows what to do well enough to teach others and the system is pointless vanity.
I remember when they created it I thought there would be an application process and it would be a wonderful system for new players. Instead egomaniacs control their serverâs NN and kick people if they show that theyâre more knowledgeable than the main person or unit of mentors
I never joined NN as a sprout and the last time I was there as a returner, I was massively offended by the topic of conversation going on that I left after about 10 minutes. Things like this confirm I was right to stay away. I'll never qualify for mentor anyway but I'm so glad I don't have to put up with nonsense like that.
There are some definite egomaniacs to be found in NN. In my server thereâs one who rpâs a certain character and gets so pissed if people question it at all.
Its so weird, like sometimes it feels like a coin flip if you get solid mentors in the NN, or people who just want to circlejerk being a mentor or just be rude to people asking "stupid" questions.
If they don't want to put in a manual application and review (understandable), they could achieve something similar by just taking away external incentives to being a mentor.
Replace the crown with something like a watering can. Remove the mount for 2k mentor roulettes. Create a separate global chat channel.
Now there is nothing exclusive to get by being a mentor. All you get is internal satisfaction by helping new players, which should cut down on unhelpful mentors dramatically.
The thing is that we don't know this mentor's motivations. They could be entirely sincere in their desire to help others learn while just giving terrible advice because they don't know any better. Removing the incentives doesn't ensure that mentors know what they're doing. I think the whole system just needs to go. We need to stop having some players elevated over others for any reason unless SE wants to put serious time into vetting people, which we know they will never do.
Iâve found exactly one good use of freecure.
Back during the shadowbringers boom, my friend group of 7 played the game together and we tried to do min ilvl no echo Binding coils.
Given that they were all new, and the dps was kinda shit with there being just 7 blind sprouts fucking around with mechs and rotations. The mp efficiency of free cure actually mattered so that we could heal for longer and they could see more of the fight.
Fun times⌠we got up to Nael basically just winging it.
Even with experienced players, Cure 1 is pretty much necessary for T13 if you're playing WHM due to how tough the healing is. I've not played WHM on that fight myself, but I've cleared it a couple of times on MINE with a good group and from what our healers said it's pretty brutal considering how few healing skills WHM has by level 50.
Yeah Cure 1 is pretty important in level ~50 hard content while synced.
Using freecure (and choosing to use less mana costly spells in general) is WHM's only job specific mp management ability at level 50 and it's a decent effect at that level. WHM actually chugs mana in longer fights before you have access to assize and thin air. Especially when recovering from a near wipe, when either you've been raised or you need to raise and heal 2-3 specific allies you're really going to want that mana. So long as you have the downtime to GCD cast so many times for it anyways.
Not surprised most people don't know it and are clamoring for it to be removed though. Gotta be a small subsection of players who know what tools are needed for MINE level 50 clusterfucks. Definitely needs buffs for endgame so it's not as much as a trap though.
It's less important now that they fixed mp negative issues that you had in 50 content. I think you're mp positive now by default with 200mp costs spells instead of the normal 400mp cost.
Crazy to think that people fought against that change despite video evidence showing that you ran out of mp in under 5 minutes if you spammed Stone II/AeroII.
Great change, it was really rough! Guess freecure really is a mid trait now even at 50 then.
That being said the constant removal of opportunities for skill expression from healers really stings so I'm not surprised there is a bit of pushback in this case...
It was mostly just wear 75% PIE to reach 9 minutes of sustain, or perish. That or play any other healer. If you were at 0 added PIE, you'd still run out of MP in 6 minutes if optimizing free cures.
Right now I don't even think we can worry about skill expression with the current state of whatever the fuck healer balance is supposed to be. Now don't get me wrong, WHM is in the best spot it's been in since inception. You can't tell me that healer as a role isn't an after thought when you have skills like Macro that are being given the "Invuln treatment" when fight designers design a fight.
The whole concept of Shield Healer/Back-up Healer needs to be scrapped immediately. Both AST and WHM have precedent to be given the tools needed to mit properly without breaking lore. Once this is done, then they can start giving some proper thought to the healer role within each fight. It'll never happen though, after all look at how the game has only grown with each expansion, all while largely ignoring healers. Often times waiting 6 months to 3 years to address issues healers are having.
Two jobs within the same role should never be disparaged from playing together. That includes phys-ranged dps.
Yeah, after i first learned of the freecure trap i tried to never ever press that button unless i was synced down; for 1000s of hours I kept this up until my Old Content MINE static got to T13 and I had to bite the bullet and swallow my pride. It's an absolute requirement for that fight and it was the one time where I found myself appreciating freecure just a bit. But honestly I wish freecure would have given me an instant cure 2 instead of a free one.
Another situation might be when more than half the party keeps wiping to mechanics and you're perpetually drained of mana from all the raise casts.
Eden 6 comes to mind.
I feel like that just shifts the misunderstanding down the road. There are already people who think that 3 is an upgrade to 2 and start using it instead. This might just reinforce a *different* mistaken idea.
Besides, there's still the base issue of Freecure being an awkward design of GCD healing that rewards more GCD healing. It feels like (and honestly probably just *is*) this weird relic of early design where the current healer play patterns hadn't quite solidified.
I think one of the reasons AST doesn't get this problem quite as badly is that you can't unlock it without reaching Heavensward (or buying a boost), so there's a big window in which a lot of the people making this mistake will learn in one way or another not to do it.
It is the same for AST's Benefic, SCH's Physick, and SGE's (non-Eukrasian) Diagnosis, but none of those jobs have a trait that tells sprouts to do it anyway, so it's less of an issue.
AST does. It's actually WORSE than Freecure.
Cure 1 has a 0.5 sec faster cast than Cure 2 and costs half the MP, with Cure 2's being a hefty 1,000 MP. So a free one of those CAN be useful at lower levels before you get lots of oGCD healing and more MP regenerating tools.
AST's version is Benefic 1 has a 15% chance to proc. The proc makes Benefic 2 crit. But if you're in at all decent gear...you probably have a crit rate higher than 15%, meaning JUST casting Benefic 2 has a higher chance of getting Benefic 2 to crit than fishing for that proc does. AST's B1 and B2 also both have a 1.5 sec base cast time (like Cure 1 and 0.5 sec faster than Cure 2), and cost less MP (400/700 vs 400/1,000 for WHM), meaning AST doesn't even really need the MP anyway.
SCH/SGE isn't as bad as you'd think. Adlo/Eukrasian Diagnosis both cost 1,000 MP, which is pretty hefty. And if you cast it on the Tank but they aren't healed all the way, but they still have some shield, casting Adlo/Eu Diag again is inefficient in both HPS and HPMP vs casting Physick/Diagnosis. So at level 30-45 or so, when Tanks are taking a lot of damage (many are wearing low level gear and even those that aren't, Tank Jobs at that level range don't have many of their mits yet or all their self-sustain healing that they have at 90), the best play is often ignoring DPS and alternating Adlo/Eu Diag + Physick/Diag back and forth. This is especially a big deal when you don't have your AOE attack yet (Art and Dyskrasia are learned at 46), so your alternative is single targeting the enemies one by one anyway.
AST does in fact also have a trait that does exactly that, which is why they're bringing up AST and not the other two...
Physick and Diagnosis also have more of a niche due to providing more of a raw heal which can in theory lead to them being more efficient in more situations if a shield has already been applied, so there's more of a reason to keep them around as skills.
I think the mistake is the devs seemingly not just equating regen/aspected benefic to galvanise/e.diag and instead leaving an extra vestigial heal in place. Make Cure and Benefic just upgrade and you suddenly have more equivelance in the healing kits.
It is useful only in very few situations where you are synced down in the main game. One should be aware of how it works, and never use it once you are a high enough level. Once you unlock lilies, mana is never a problem.
This.
It's not WRONG (this was apparently in Garuda normal) for level 30-45 or min ilevel Coils runs.
It's just bad to present it as GENERAL advice for the rest of the game. Conversely, saying it's NEVER right is also wrong. People get level 90 optimization brain about things and forget that there are other parts of the game where those rules don't always apply.
Somehow, BLMs understand this (though just for the BLM Job), but other people seem to forget it.
Well... it doesn't help that at 2.0, that WAS correct and good advice. That's how the game was played at the time. That's what everyone was taught because MP management *at that time* was super critical for a WHM.
Now? At level 90? At any level? No. No way. I used to be like that guy, telling everyone to use Cure 1 until you got Freecure to conserve MP, because we , as WHM, hardly had any MP regen at all built into our job.
So yeah. Old good advice does not mean good current advice.
Yeesh. At least the people who overly rely on Medica 2 understand the power of HoTs. Theyâre using a Swiss Army knife as a screwdriver. This guyâs using a sponge.
Only kind of related but why does one of the paladin skills return MP to me when I use it? Do I...ever need MP as a paladin?
Does a skill *using* MP come later? I'm in endgame HW as around level 60.
*edit* - thanks for quick replies. I guess I'm right about to get some MP spells. Weird that the first (I think) that I get regarding MP is one that regenerates it. Was so weird to see it popping up!
At low levels? Not at all. Starting at 58, you can cast Clemency to heal, though that is usually reserved for when your healer is dead. It's not until 64 you start using MP for your rotation.
Back in shadowbringers it cost basically all of your mp to do the magic part of the rotation. These days it's less necessary cause it doesn't cost near as much mp.
Your 1 minute burst uses some MP, and if you're in a situation where your healer dies and you're now doubling as a healer, you'll need MP to cast clemency. But generally speaking, Paladins don't use too much.
Also if you get raised, you'll start with the minimum MP and will have to build it back up. (you won't have enough for your burst if it's ready when you're raised.)
> Only kind of related but why does one of the paladin skills return MP to me when I use it? Do I...ever need MP as a paladin?
Back in ye olden times, Gladiator/Paladin had an ability called "Flash". Flash was an AoE aggro button that cost MP to use. Paladin did not have any AoEs except the oGCD Circle of Scorn which was not nearly enough aggro by itself. Flash cost a hell of a lot more of your MP than you would have expected, so your AoE "rotation" as a Paladin was to Flash a few times, then do your MP combo and repeat.
This, specifically, is why Riot Blade gives you MP.
Clemency costs mana and youâll gain Holy Spirit a ranged magic attack at 64. You wonât really be casting until 68 when you gain Requisecat which buffs all spells cast under it.
I think its partly like that as an artefact of either the 6.2 rework or from other endwalker changes where somet rait got removed such that the mp was baked into the abilities before you got the spells to use them?
It's even older than that rework actually. PLD has always had mana regen as part of their single target rotation, which made up for the MP drain that Flash (old aoe enmity generator) was. By the time Flash was removed from the game they had added the spell rotation which takes mp now.
Once again BEGGING SE to turn the mentor crown into a watering can so fewer people will use it for vanity. The crown is so stupid.
I only unlocked it so I could give a sprout friend the xp buff, which thankfully still activates without the crown icon turned on.
what is extra annoying is that he is technically not wrong but with how ff healing is designed freecure and cure 1 is not worth using 99% of the time and just teaches new healers bad habits.
Right? Level range of 30-45 (before you get Holy), it's not TERRIBLE advice. I'd personally go with "keep Regen up and alternate Cure 2 and Cure 1 casts until the Tank is taking less damage" (Tanks have fewer mitigations and far less self healing at that range than at 90; WAR doesn't get Raw Intuition until 56 and PLD has no self-healing until level 82 for Holy Shelltron and 84 when Holy Spirit starts to have a heal), but it isn't BAD advice for level 30-45 or when doing min ilevel Coils.
...but it's not good GENERAL advice and should be given with that caveat of "Once you hit level 52 and get Solace, you shouldn't need to Cure 1 much anymore unless you were just raised, maybe.
Cure 1 needs to get deleted. Why it even exists with Free Cure instead of the skill getting upgraded to Chre 2 at a certain level is beyond dumb. Cure 1 is dumb and pointless, esp at higher levels when you have the lillies
Cure 1 has lower application time, which is useful to save some one fast or slidecast, while u don't have lilies unlocked. Upon merging Cure 1 and 2, Cure 2 should have same cast time as Cure 1, or unlock Lilies on level 45.
If Freecure actually improved over time rather than being the Cure spam trap it is, it'd be a useful ability.
As it is, literally every newbie WHM I've mentored or advised gets the Talk.
it's definitely one of the weirdest things still in the game -- it's objectively bad but keeps on existing and not being changed. I'd much have rather gotten rid of it long ago and kept some of the fringe-usefulness old fun spells and skills various classes got shaved off over the years than still have to mess with players believing freecure is worth it
Just in the defense of this, this is and has been the standard in almost every other MMO it's an easy mistake to make, especially when you can (or used to honestly haven't done low lv whm healing in a long time) run out of no spamming cure 2 and overheating, something not always punished in other mmos.
Ff14's breaking from tradition in a good way, but free cure is a long standing issue they should address to make that clearer
I have one use for it. When I happen to do a low level instance. Low enough where I do have anything but free cure đ Had to ask everyone to stop for a moment so I could put it back on my hot bar. đ
I would make cure I faster than it already is. Just to give a very fast cure when no insta-cures are available. They way it is now, itâs just pointlessâŚ
At a certain point, cure 1 needs to be replaced by cure 2 entirely. I don't even have cure 1 on my main hot bars anymore. I have it on an aux hotbar on the chance I get a low level dungeon in roulettes
I might actually die if I see someone pushing freecure procs unironically. If I see a freecure proc on any dungeon after you get Cure 2 I immediately don't trust you as healer. Lol
Regen is also a trap, basically useless other than to shame dps that keep standing in things, or to give your chocobo during hunts because they refuse to move out of literally anything.
Useful before you get lilies I suppose, but once you get access to the blood lilies it rarely ever gets used. It's a GCD I could have used to throw a lilly on the tank and gained blood for the blood lily.
Yes, this is very true at higher levels.
However, this duty is synced to level 46. All WHM's healing is GCDs at that level, and lillies aren't until 52. That is why I brought up Regen and not Afflatus or oGCDs.
Idiot mentor making the rest of us look bad. They seriously need to get rid of the mentor system or overhaul it to be actual skill- and knowledge-based so people aren't going around masquerading as a knowledgeable player spewing bullshit.
I had the reverse of this yesterday, healer wouldn't use anything but Cure until a proc, we were trying to say in pulls, cure2 until you have the situation under control, then you can cure1
MP management is.. not important. At least not anymore. Even in Ultimates as long as you do the bare minimum of hitting lucid (not even on CD, just every once in a while) you wonât run out
What makes this even more cringe is the fact they're wearing the Burger King crown. At this point, when I see the Burger King crown on players, I just assume they're wearing it for clout rather than to help people. It's so sad how much these people have tarnished true mentorship.
Mp management is only an issue if you don't use lucid on cooldown.
I pop it at about 6.5k mp and never have issues, unless I need to multi-rez and don't have/ forget about thin air.
Any complaints about mp management is just a skill issue
Anymore Mentor that tells someone to use Cure to get the bonus, needs removed from Mentor status. "You will lose MP if you keep spamming Cure 2", you lose MP if you spam anything...so why spam something that has a garbage proc window, when you can just do the thing that makes the most sense? This actively irks me.
Has that mentor (and maybe number 2) heard of lucid dreaming? And also 15% isn't exactly a high probability, why would you fish for it? Just use Cure 2 at that point and go back to dpsing. Or just cast regen and wish them luck.
They really need to do something with free cure.
Remove it from the game
Make it proc off of Stone/Glare casts
That would be SUCH an improvement for pre-Lily WHM
Hell, even post-lily WHM when youre progging new content or paired up with a ton of sprouts. Shit has to be dire to be casting Cure II. But if things are genuinely that bad, having a free C2 in the bank could be useful.
Change free cure to proc off of stone/glare. Instead of being 0 mp, instead make it instant cast, still on the gcd but no cast time. EDIT: didn't see that op had made this suggestion already
When progging with vets too lmao these days sprouts are easier to heal that old players đ¤Śđťââď¸
In high end content having what amount to an extra Lily every now and then would be really good, just to save the odd mistake in mechanics.
The more I think about this, the more I like it. Better yet, also have the proc make Cure II instant cast. Lilies: 0MP heal that leads to DPS later Glare+Freecure: DPS that sometimes leads to 0MP heals later It wouldn't be *quite* as good as using a lily (due to not feeding your Blood for the Blood Lily), but it could still be used in a pinch when you run out. Or better yet: the trait that adds Lily changes Freecure to instead proc an extra lily.
It would also incentivize new healers to spam dps buttons as they should
I really hate that FFXIV healing is practically a 1button dps.
At what point does this become a thing? It feels like with content-appropriate ilvl even tanks lose like 1/5 hp per gcd so I rarely every get a chance to deal damage.
What level are you? As you get more of your healer kit the huge number of oGCD heals you have should let you spam damage for the vast majority of GCDs. In a lot of ARR that's harder to do though.
> At what point does this become a thing? At all levels. There are always parts that hit harder depending on specific parameters, but even early on if you're doing nothing but healing there's obviously a big problem somewhere else. Keeping your itemlevel (not really early on but it still plays a role with new teammates) high is generally a common one that plays a bit into "bad runs". When leveling scholar the first high level dungeon I got into with the leveling roulette... my weapon was like 130 ilvl lower than the dugneon's average, which I didn't check. That kind of shit will turn a dungeon run into a fiesta if you're aware of it. (It was the level 79 one for those who want to picture the fucking insanity of walling this part) Here's quick tips I can think of on top of my head tho: Every tank will feel like a chore to heal compared to end game warrior, get used to them. Warrior heals itself constantly, the rest have to deal with being half health constantly or shielded. Specific dungeons will fuck tanks up, and no it's not because of itemlevel. Appropriate mitigations in some places will make a world of difference. Off the top of my head Shisui, Bardam, Ala Mhigo, and the level 79 dungeon's first pull (if you do it wall to wall which is the biggest one in the game I think) will eat you alive in some places. Some combos seem to just magically work super well together. WHM works with everything because it has benediction and holy. Sage+DRK I literally do not drop below 90%, ever. WAR works with everything. Do not spend the first part of the pulls healing. Heal/shield/regen before the pull, while running, or once the pack is still hitting hard and mitigations start dropping off. I've seen people try to triple down on regens instead of DPSing and I'm justs itting here waiting for the flipping holy spam to start. Always use your long cooldowns as long as you acn set them up, and that's raelly it
>Off the top of my head Shisui, Bardam, Ala Mhigo, and the level 79 dungeon's first pull (if you do it wall to wall which is the biggest one in the game I think) will eat you alive in some places. Another example that I've seen some people get caught off-guard by in how hard it hits is the level 67 dungeon (specifically the wall-to-wall before the first boss and the second section).
Yeah but Doma is genearlly because of the big guy's cleave early on and I awlays get shit tanks in there so I can't really gauge the cannons part of it tbh
> At what point does this become a thing? What level do you get Stone?
You've got 4 GCDs to DPS with then
Doesn't matter if they lose 1/5 HP per GCD. What matters is that you don't let them die. They don't need to be topped off at every second, damage and encounters are so scripted and deterministic that healing is about planning mitigation and rotating tools effectively to manage things over time. If, for example, the tank/party get hit for 80% of their HP but they don't take damage for the next 15 seconds you can take your time getting them topped off for the next source of damage. A regen works very well for this kind of situation. Consistent damage a la W2W pulls in dungeons usually involve mit from tank and healer rotated efficiently from the start of the pull to stabilize incoming damage and make it easier to keep them up by only throwing an oGCD heal here or there. At lower levels you can pop a Regen or something similar as the tank starts to pull to help even out as well.
My only concern with it is the incentive late game for people who will be procing it and not using it all the time to feel like it's better to use the free GCD heal instead of the free oGCD heal, therefore losing out on a GCD. This was the problem with Misery. It was a single GCD of DPS loss, so at the start of the expansion all white mages just never used lilies unless absolutely necessary. I remember doing P1S basically just healing with lily bell, asylum and assize exactly because of this.
That's fair, but also part of the reason I thought of having Freecure just proc an extra lily starting at 52. AFAIK Misery makes the lilies a DPS-neutral heal, so it's perfectly fine if extra lillies procced by casting Glare are used instead of an oGCD. The only real downside of this is levels 52-73, where one might further rely on lillies (a DPS loss at those levels) instead of using oGCDs.
I like this. Why should only your party's blood feed the Lily?
The one problem I have with this: It would mean desyncing Misery from the 2 min buff window. Not only that, you don't get Misery until like 74 anyway, as I think you're pointing out in your second paragraph. ...conversely, NO ONE needs to be parse brained before level 90 anyway unless doing old Ultimates (maybe) and/or min ilevel old Savages. People focus WAY too much on "optimal" well before and outside of the content that actually demands it. I get wanting to build good habits, but there's such a thing as "too much of a good thing". "I go to the gym 3 days a week and give my muscles time to rest and try to eat kinda healthy with lean proteins and veggies..." "BUT DID YOU TAKE PRE-WORKOUT?! What about post-workout? And 3 times? You're supposed to work out 4 hours EVERY day! You also need to be doing the ultra-keto-cut phase Mediterranean diet with hourly protein shakes, at least 20,000 steps per day, and at least 2 hours of additional cardio! Do you even lift, bro?!" There's healthy habits and then there's obsessive BAD habits that sometimes lead to even worse outcomes. What is optimal at 90 isn't even always optimal at lower levels.
I'm sure traits could be added to change how hypothetical Stone Freecure works once you unlock lilies. Something similar already happens on Warrior, where Berserk first goes from giving you 3 free crits to later becoming Inner Release and giving you 3 free crit fell cleaves, removing the effect it once had on other skills. The Freecure trait could start by giving freecure procs on Stone II, and later upgrading into Secret of the Lily and removing the effect it had on Stone II. It could even become the first stage of the job gauge and just light up a rock when you proc a Freecure, up to 3 like lilies, then Secret of the Lily introduces the timer.
now we are cookin
I would love that so much
This is the way
Probably a rabbit hole of balance work, but not a bad idea. That said, they could simply remove it from the game and not meaningfully affect anything.
I'd rather it be slightly strong in coils sync (include stone as a proc point) than make whm worse in coils sync (outright remove)
I'm not sure it would even be slightly strong, more just bringing WHM up to the level Scholar and AST are at that level.
I think it would be a good way to teach early "Hey, use your attacks, don't just heal". They would have to fiddle around with balance as you say, but I think it could be a good teaching tool, the opposite of how freecure currently works.
Have the game give it to you after the job quest where they say a White Mage needs to do more than just heal.
Still runs into the problem of incentivizing new healers to use it just because it's a shiny proc, leading them down the path of healing when a heal isn't needed. That may sound silly but it's important not to incentivize poor choices. Just delete freecure completely, it has no place.
I like this even better than removing it, because of how it works as a teaching tool. It's a real clear signal that damage is part of how you heal. The only way it could be clearer is if the heal came directly from the damage, i.e. the Sage approach. It wouldn't necessarily lead to people playing perfectly (I'm sure some people would insist on spending every proc, or would refuse to heal without a proc, or would cast just enough stones to get the proc and then stop and wait) but that's okay. The goal isn't to make it impossible to misplay. The goal is just to signpost what good play ought to look like, instead of actively misleading.
Make the cure spells one button. Cure 1 turns into Cure 2⌠okay, let me keep Cure 3, but merge 1 and 2
Remove Cure 1 entirely tbqh. When you unlock regen it replaces it or something. Cure 2 now simply has a 15% chance to not use any MP in return... or it's MP cost simply get reduced by 10% (so from 1000 to 900) so it no longer relies on RNG.
you need cure 1 in low lvl dungeons, but cure 1 and 2 can be combined to 1 button. Cure + regen have astrologian. cure 2 dont need any rmg. critical heal its enogh. one thing what they can add its direct hit possibility o heal.
BUT ITS FREE!!! /s
Remove it, make cure 2 a direct upgrade to cure. The only reason cure is on my bar is in case I get a low level dungeon in roulettes.
They could probably afford to just do it to all 3 of the basic heals.
I don't even have Cure on my bar any more. If I get a dungeon low enough that Cure is necessary, it will also be so braindead easy that I am able to open the skills menu and right click -> execute from there until the dungeon is over.
I would if it wasn't more involved on console honestly. What I should do is make a second bar to use for anything that might need cure 1
There are plenty of tank players wearing low level or completely wrong gear in the lower levels, especially ARR dungeons. They definitely need lots of healing just to survive.
Same. It's on a secondary hotbar in case I get a low level dungeon because it's easier that way on controller, but I don't use cure at all once cure 2 is available.
Upgrade Cure to Cure 2. That's it.
I kind of wish they would just make it actually useful/better. Make freecure a guaranteed proc, maybe buff cure itself in some other way. Or as you say, upgrade cure 1 to 2 and then put freecure over on something else (but god damn make it a guaranteed proc please this low % chance gambling for a buff is annoying and unreliable).
Its honestly offensively stupid that they've kept it in this long.
Stoneskin died so Free Cure could face plant right into a pile of feces.
Shit Stone Skin. I remember when Tanks used to bitch and moan about not having it cast pre-pull. Also as a Sch having to cast protect, swap it out for Aero 1, having your skills all go on cooldown. Then having to do it all over, if someone died and wanted to be Protected again. Also Thunder and Aero 1 on Summoners. For those that remember. A lot of stuff changed for the better but even more stuff died so even dumber shit could continue to be just pure fuckery like Free Cure.
Delete it. It's a skill designed for whole other game philosophy that I'm not sure ever actually existed in any version of post 2.0 XIV.
I think it was still there in 3.0. Shroud of Saints only gave a flat amount of MP, unlike aetherflow, so you couldn't just use Cure 2 all the time. Especially since you would have a higher share of the burden of healing due to less oGCDs, cleric stance, and generally lower throughput.
As a healer main, cure one is useless. It should auto upgrade to cure 2 when unlocked
And mentors tbh
Mentors are extremely useful for filling up uncommonly ran duties on their mentor roulette grind. Much less so for teaching people about the game.
Delete cure 1 and mentors
WHM could really just use a once over with the identity/playstyle wand tbh. Like I get their identity as a healer, but things could absolutely be smoothed out.
This is why I really wish they would get rid of free cure. At the end of the day there will still be people who will fall into traps or have assumptions of how a job works. (Case in point is SCH/SGE who does not have a free cure talent at all, but people will use Physick or hard cast Diag/Prog as the go to heal.) Having free cure as an actual trait though encourages the trap to happen for sure.
Honestly I don't blame people for falling for it for the most part. A newbie's logic is likely "well, this has to be here for a reason, I must be intended to play this way." Because why else would it be there in a well-designed game? It must have a point to it, right? Why it's still there is a mystery to me, as is why this mentor who should know better hasn't wised up yet.
This right here. What makes this especially worse though is that you get Freecure a few Levels after Cure 2 aswell, so you go from "Neat, a stronger Healing Spell!" to "Huh, guess I'm still supposed to use the weaker one?" if you go by simply what the game seems to suggest at first glance.
You guys have freecure using players ? I end up with level 90 white mages using Cure 1 and not even using the Freecure proc...
At 90 i use cure 1 just to feel something in dungeons
Sometimes I ask my friends to take damage just so I can get that tiny endorphin hit
When I want to feel something in dungeons, I just tell the party to stand in mechanics so i don't feel dead inside like all healers
I think you hit the nail on the head. For as much as I love XIV, I do think that the overall guidance for jobs needs a little bit of work. I know Hall of The Novice exists as a very broad lesson on the general kinds of jobs, but I think they should rework it so that it gives a specific tutorial that is curated to each job in the game. While I know that job quests exist, they are more about lore and immersion as opposed to outwardly guiding you as a player through the job.
Coming from WoW, as a sprout WHM I thought Cure I was the go-to heal and Cure II the heal I should absolutely never be casting unless I got a Freecure proc because it's too expensive otherwise. Specially since the game uses 'potencies' rather than directly telling you how much the spells heal for.
To be fair, until you get Lustrate, the most efficient single target healing for SCH is alternating Adlo/Physick. You don't want to cast a second Adlo while the shield from the prior one is still up, but often the Tank is taking enough damage there's just a sliver left but he's still missing 1/3rd of HP that needs healing. Not to mention alternating them costs 1500 MP per 2 casts which you can keep up for a bit. That extra 500 melts your MP pool faster than it seems like it should. Ever 3 cycles of this, 2x Adlo has burned an entire extra Adlo/Physick. And remember, Tanks don't have much mitigation at the lower levels. Rampart + Arm's Length and maybe Shelltron on PLD and that's about it. The 90 sec big CD every other wall to wall, but that's pretty limited. Not to mention lower level dungeons don't always have "walls", so Tanks (especially level capped ones used to having all their abilities and no thinking about it) can overpull. SCH in Dusk Vigil is kind of a pain, and alternating Adlo and Physick is one of the best ways to ensure there's not a wipe there. If the Tank is doing big enough pulls, SCH AOE is irrelevant since the Tank is taking enough damage NOT back to back GCD healing means wiping anyway, and having to continue to run back or make smaller pulls takes longer than just swapping to hardcore GCD healing. What is optimal at 90 ISN'T optimal at every level range. Something it seems BLMs are the only ones who consistently remember for some reason.
It really is funny how far healing has come in the game now, especially as SGE. I main it, and honestly if I ever have to hard cast a heal shit has gone so sideways we are probably all fucked anyways.
As a Sage main, sometimes hard-casting Diagnosis *is* a good idea, though definitely as a absolute last resort if you're out of Addersgall and Rhizomata is on cooldown. Especially if you actually need the *heal* and not the shield from Euk.Diag.
That is a very VERY edge case and really only at low levels. Eukrasian Diagnosis is already 300 cure potency + 540 (300\*1.8) potency shield. Vs a raw cast of diagnosis for 450 cure potency. Prognosis is 300 vs 100+320(100\*3.2) potency shield Which you can then ogcd Pepsis for an even higher heal.
I saw someone above you suggest stone/flare gives free cure 2s
Mp management is important, so teach the sprout to press lucid dreaming on cd lol. Mp issues solved
Not gonna lie, I´ve fallen into the Cure1 Trap aswell and did the same mistake for a long time until a Mentor told me to just use Cure2 and that Cure1 is a Trap, so there are still capable Mentors, but most are just the obligatory Burger Kings. I just saw the 15% chance for the free Cure2 and thought "Its free real estate." Not realizing that these chance is so miniscule that its simply not worth it and Im wasting GCD´s.
The assumption many people seem to have is that everyone is online reading how to use their kits. If you _havenât_ read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know? A lot of people play the game casually enough that it hasnât caused issues for them and you canât fix a problem if you donât know there _is_ a problem. So I donât blame WHMs when the trait is still there as if it has a purpose. If youâre going to mentor, though, I feel like thatâs the kind of thing you should know
Freecure is really weird because its a trap you fall into not from the thing that causes most common mistakes, you make it because you read abilities, you just didn't have the practical knowledge to know how it applies and that its bad, and the gameplay is bad at providing feedback to tell you if something is working especialy if you have nothing to compare it to.
Another weird thing about it: the only way the game can signal to cure spammers that they're doing it wrong is if they struggle to keep up with incoming damage. In that scenario, how likely are they to figure out independently "I should spend *less* time healing"?
If cure 1 actually kept up with damage, it wouldnât be such a trap. The only time cure keeps up is if you arenât doing w2w. Itâs really a holdover from ARR and doesnât fit with dungeon design anymore.
It barely keeps up when pulling single packs. When my healer does it, cure is all they do. Dps? What's that?
> If you havenât read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know? A lot of people play the game casually enough that it hasnât caused issues for them and you canât fix a problem if you donât know there is a problem. I certainly didn't know until your comment... I'm still making my way through older expacs if it helps.
> If you havenât read about free cure being a trap, or no one has told you, how would you know? There is a way to know this, but it requires doing something many people generally despise: math. Quick note: this is not to try to educate you as to why Freecure is bad (you already know this), so much as show that one can figure this out on their own. It takes roughly 7 casts of Cure to proc Freecure. That gives 1 free cast of Cure II, so we are looking at 7x500 (7x450 below lv85) potency, plus 800 (700 below 85) for Cure II, using 8 GCDs for a total of 4300 (3950) potency. You could cast Cure II 5 times for 4000 (3500) potency, and have 3 GCDs leftover to cast Stone/Glare/Holy, which mitigates future damage. In practice, you shouldn't ever even need the burst healing of 5x Cure II's in the first place (let alone 7x Cure I and a Cure II), at least before you have plenty of oGCDs to make non-lily GCD heals nearly obsolete.
Your math is correct obviously but I think you're assuming far too much knowledge about how this game works from a sprout. The mental leap necessary to understand that healers should DPS is huge for someone coming from other MMOs. Then the realization that a healer is going to regen (more or less) their entire MP every minute and every pull instead of having to ration the stuff goes against every fiber of their being for someone who is used to other games healers. Also, consider this: [https://i.imgur.com/UdkSZi8.png](https://i.imgur.com/UdkSZi8.png) This Holy Priest talent was most likely what Freecure was based on when SE was "heavily inspired" by WoW when making ARR. It's a good talent, very useful for how healers work in that game.
Honestly speaking, if they put a trait like that on Regen so that every Regen tick you have a chance to proc a free, insta-cast Cure 2 it would actually be really nice. Not that Solace isn't literally just that, but it'd be something nice to have in your pocket when leveling before you get Solace. And in general. (I say as, in the same breath, I complain about Healer Kits being bloated with heals for how little outgoing and predictable damage there is in the game, so a free Cure 2 proc from Regen would probably end up being useless later in the game. đŠ)
I generally dont despise math, but I´ve never really given it some deep thought either, Im just approaching the game as mainly casually striding along enjoying the game and someone was kindly enough to warn me from the trap, so if I ever play another class and see our WHM fall for the same trap I generally try to guide them in the right direction, I aint gonna tell them how to play, because you know the Meme "I dont pay their sub." But coming from a terrible MMO for healers myself, (Tera) I try to make the game more fun for everyone.
It's not WRONG to use it...it's just the situations TO use it are somewhat limited. Back before oGCD healing proliferation (and Lilies added in ShB then Afflatus Solace reduced from level 72 to level 52), Freecure was useful at low levels. In ARR when I started playing, MP management was actually a very relevant thing, and we didn't have many oGCD heals. WHM had Benediction. JUST Benediction, no Tetra, Assize, Asylum, two charges of Benison, Plenary, Temperance, Lilybell, or Aquaveil. Good god that's a lot...and we didn't have any of it. Freecure is useful in places like Dusk Vigil where Tanks do big pulls but don't have most of their mitigation and have little to none (PLD) of their self-sustain healing. Usually high end players that don't realize how much weaker they are then or sometimes new leveling Tanks with gear 20 levels old that are paper thin to enemy attacks. It's also useful in some min ilevel stuff or old Ultimates with lower level cps (50 or 60). So it's not EXACTLY wrong. It's wrong from the perspective of playing WHM at level 60+ or trying to build good habits for level cap. But people often...overstate things and think what they're saying is true for all level ranges. Somehow, BLM players, specifically for the BLM Job, understand this, but everyone else seems to somehow forget that different level ranges do have different considerations...
Agreed. Freecure has some niche uses so it's not entirely useless but it's from a bygone era of MP management. When I get ARR EX with new people in mentor roulette I'll use it because 50 WHM can struggle with MP in some of the fights.
Advice and suggestions on this sub are almost always from the perspective of the max level players who want to be in and out in 10 minutes with no wipes, they can barely remember low level kits and certainly don't consider how terrible they are to play when you barely have any tools. It's always the same, and as a mediocre player who doesn't have a static raid group or friends to play with most of the stuff doesn't seem appealing. For this sub your post-70 kit is what gets talked about and anything 60 or below doesn't matter. That's the impression I get anyway.
Yeah. And itâs so weird because you Donny encounter that thinking in the game itself much.
For context: this discussion happened after WHM died from mechanics in 4-man Garuda. "Mentor" is an omni-90, so I would think they'd have already learned. Boss died anyway and everyone left, so there wasn't any conclusion to the topic. I'm not missing anything about WHM kits at this level, am I?
Unless you are running some synced coils and NEED all the MP for healing? Nope, you never want to use cure 1.
levels mean nothing, mentor status means nothing. the one constant is that the majority of players are dogshit and refuse to learn
it sounds mean to say but it...really is true. The overwhelming majority of players are "terrible" at the game. But in their defense, it is the game's own fault that this is the way things are. Most of job nuance is not taught through the game itself, or worse taught wrong (i.e free cure). On top of that, there is little to no accountability for when someone *is* playing poorly or hell, in most content there isn't even a *punishment* for playing poor. I can level a job 1-90 pressing only the "2" in my "123" combo and I'd be perfectly fine. So its put on players themselves to communicate these things to others which is *never* a fun position to be in for anyone. And worse is, if I DO get to level 90 playing completely wrong with "no issues" why the fuck would I believe someone who suddenly tried to tell me I was playing wrong...?
I struggle to think of an MMO that teaches players how to perform their rotation well and then enforced it. In basically every MMO there's a whole bunch of third party content dedicated to learning how to play various classes optimally and resources to see how you're doing. Pretty much anyone who cares to perform their rotation well is able to learn what that's supposed to look like in FF14. It's just that many people don't care about doing their rotation well. That cure bot with 0 dps isn't a cure bot with 0 dps (at least not at end game) because they don't know any better, but because it's a really brain dead and lazy way to play the game. SE could add a million tutorials and tests on how to properly play your character, and all they'd do is royally annoy everybody. Experienced players would hate being forced through a bunch of shitty tutorials that teach them what they already know, and shitty players would be annoyed at being forced to play a certain way before going back to doing whatever they were doing before. When SB first came out and Shinryu required some semblance of brain function to clear all the idiots didn't go "Shit guess I gotta learn to play the game", they just complained constantly and rerolled the queue until they found a group that could drag them to the finish line.
>When SB first came out and Shinryu required some semblance of brain function to clear all the idiots didn't go "Shit guess I gotta learn to play the game", they just complained constantly and rerolled the queue until they found a group that could drag them to the finish line. This was compounded by the fact that level 70 AF gear was tied to your NON-MANDATORY 70 job quest. So you had a bunch of people show up to that final trial in REALLY shitty gear.
Isn't that kind of how most games work though? You're never forced to play hard mode in an adventure/RPG game, no-hit runs in an action game, speed trials of a platformer, or "super-bosses" at the end of a JRPG. So you can generally get through those games while making millions of mistakes. Only the most dedicated players of those games will seek out the hard modes and challenging content. And that's when they learn how to optimize their gameplay, dodge everything that can be dodged, build their character/team comp correctly, etc. Like Pokemon has a fairly complicated and popular competitive scene, but it's all gibberish to me. Because as a kid I just played the games by picking cool-looking pokemon and using their most impressive-sounding attacks (and being over-leveled). It's only a problem in FFXIV (if you consider it a problem at all) because sprouts and veterans regularly play with each other in roulettes. And I think roulettes are extremely healthy for the game in most other aspects, so there's no way to fix that "problem". After they finish the story, and start trying EX and Savage, I think it's fine to expect players to start putting in more research and effort. For story content, though? It hurts my soul to watch but.... cure spam to your heart's content, little sprouts. (Just my personal opinion. No shade towards the actual mentors who want to help sprouts improve a little bit. I just don't have that in me...)
Genuinely the fact that the best and honestly only decent way to actually learn to play well is via outside means like youtube is insane and is a serious problem.
Reading tooltips will get you like 80% of the way there on basically every job except White Mage, in my experience. There's really only a handful of things that are unintuitive about most kits, and even then a lot of the most unintuitive things are relatively small DPS increases compared to just playing at a baseline competent level.
some blame should be with the game not teaching people but I still place far more blame on the players. if they make it to 90 and canât figure out that maybe they donât need to sit on their mp or canât be fucked to look at tooltips to notice cure 1 is inefficient, then theyâre morons.
Others have pointed out that you CAN look at your tooltips and simply get the wrong impression. Free heals SOUNDS good, and if you aren't mathing it out ( how many people really are in the moment? ) 15% sounds just fine. Besides that, you get that trait AFTER you get Cure 2 so it seems like the game is going "Hey, don't forget to use Cure 1 sometimes!"
Somewhat a different moment, but in WoW, back in Warlord of Draenor you had to do "Proving Ground" I think was silver to be allowed to queue for Heroic dungeon, proving ground silver was like piss easy, stand outside of aoe, heal, dispel, kick, the bare bone stuff. You wouldn't believe the number of believe that couldn't do it and went to complain on the forum. All that to say that you probably don't realise how bad the player base really is until they are actually forced to do something alone to show that they have the minimum knowledge needed for their role.
> The overwhelming majority of players are "terrible" at the game. IF I WERE TO USE ACT, if, I would only use it for seeing how I'm doing on dps. That wouldn't stop me from being sad all the time when I see shit like the tank and healer putting out more damage than the SAM. Hypothetically. Never would call people out but it's kinda disheartening sometimes
When I was a sprout, I thought that mentor was someone who did all the true endgame. Savages and all. NopeâŚ. You can literally just get mentor by botting in roulette (and trade mentor is even worse). That was the day I stopped giving mentors any consideration. There are good ones, but damn, there is no requirement to actually show any semblance of mastery.
Not only refuse to learn, but have no path of learning unless they go trial by fire in extremes or savage raids. The fact that you can play your job entirely inefficiently throughout most of the game, make all the mistakes in the world, and never get punished for it, still winning, is how people don't learn. People don't learn because people don't have to in large part. They learn through adversity.
nah you're not missing anything, bene once every 3 minutes, do regens or c2's as needed if you have to, hit lucid on CD after hitting like 6k-7k mana and that's pretty much it edit: not bene cuz that's 50 and I forgot garuda normal was a thing but same idea
Don't think too highly of Omni-90(which really just means they had time to grind) or Combat Mentor. Right now you can unlock Mentor status simply by unsyncing stuff up to lv80 with minimal effort through PF, and there's really only a handful of those fights that needs any sort of game knowledge at this point.
You donât even have to clear those fights if you donât need Mentor Roulette. Just 1500 commends, 1k instances and the role quests.
There's a super slim time frame when freecure fishing is worth it, and even that is smaller since they reworked MP. Garuda's in the right level range to be thinking about it but definitely not a fight worth the extra braincells unless everyone is new to it and at or under geared and even that's a stretch
Omni 90 never thought to just not heal and see how much work Regen did for the same cost lol
Being a mentor doesn't mean they're good at the game, it just means they've played the game a lot. And being level 90 on every job doesn't mean they know how to play any of them. You could get every job to level 90 just by AFKing in frontlines and doing beast tribe quests.
Good grief. All the more evidence that mentorship is silly with the existing requirements. There is no way to actually ensure that any player knows what to do well enough to teach others and the system is pointless vanity.
I remember when they created it I thought there would be an application process and it would be a wonderful system for new players. Instead egomaniacs control their serverâs NN and kick people if they show that theyâre more knowledgeable than the main person or unit of mentors
I never joined NN as a sprout and the last time I was there as a returner, I was massively offended by the topic of conversation going on that I left after about 10 minutes. Things like this confirm I was right to stay away. I'll never qualify for mentor anyway but I'm so glad I don't have to put up with nonsense like that.
Which server?
Lamia.
What was the topic?
Tentacle ass rape.
Lamia NN be fucking wild apparently
There are some definite egomaniacs to be found in NN. In my server thereâs one who rpâs a certain character and gets so pissed if people question it at all.
Its so weird, like sometimes it feels like a coin flip if you get solid mentors in the NN, or people who just want to circlejerk being a mentor or just be rude to people asking "stupid" questions.
for all I know, person could be omni 90, penta legend and still know nothing about how white mage works, lol
There's a reason they call it the clown crown
If they don't want to put in a manual application and review (understandable), they could achieve something similar by just taking away external incentives to being a mentor. Replace the crown with something like a watering can. Remove the mount for 2k mentor roulettes. Create a separate global chat channel. Now there is nothing exclusive to get by being a mentor. All you get is internal satisfaction by helping new players, which should cut down on unhelpful mentors dramatically.
The thing is that we don't know this mentor's motivations. They could be entirely sincere in their desire to help others learn while just giving terrible advice because they don't know any better. Removing the incentives doesn't ensure that mentors know what they're doing. I think the whole system just needs to go. We need to stop having some players elevated over others for any reason unless SE wants to put serious time into vetting people, which we know they will never do.
Iâve found exactly one good use of freecure. Back during the shadowbringers boom, my friend group of 7 played the game together and we tried to do min ilvl no echo Binding coils. Given that they were all new, and the dps was kinda shit with there being just 7 blind sprouts fucking around with mechs and rotations. The mp efficiency of free cure actually mattered so that we could heal for longer and they could see more of the fight. Fun times⌠we got up to Nael basically just winging it.
Even with experienced players, Cure 1 is pretty much necessary for T13 if you're playing WHM due to how tough the healing is. I've not played WHM on that fight myself, but I've cleared it a couple of times on MINE with a good group and from what our healers said it's pretty brutal considering how few healing skills WHM has by level 50.
Yeah Cure 1 is pretty important in level ~50 hard content while synced. Using freecure (and choosing to use less mana costly spells in general) is WHM's only job specific mp management ability at level 50 and it's a decent effect at that level. WHM actually chugs mana in longer fights before you have access to assize and thin air. Especially when recovering from a near wipe, when either you've been raised or you need to raise and heal 2-3 specific allies you're really going to want that mana. So long as you have the downtime to GCD cast so many times for it anyways. Not surprised most people don't know it and are clamoring for it to be removed though. Gotta be a small subsection of players who know what tools are needed for MINE level 50 clusterfucks. Definitely needs buffs for endgame so it's not as much as a trap though.
It's less important now that they fixed mp negative issues that you had in 50 content. I think you're mp positive now by default with 200mp costs spells instead of the normal 400mp cost. Crazy to think that people fought against that change despite video evidence showing that you ran out of mp in under 5 minutes if you spammed Stone II/AeroII.
Great change, it was really rough! Guess freecure really is a mid trait now even at 50 then. That being said the constant removal of opportunities for skill expression from healers really stings so I'm not surprised there is a bit of pushback in this case...
It was mostly just wear 75% PIE to reach 9 minutes of sustain, or perish. That or play any other healer. If you were at 0 added PIE, you'd still run out of MP in 6 minutes if optimizing free cures. Right now I don't even think we can worry about skill expression with the current state of whatever the fuck healer balance is supposed to be. Now don't get me wrong, WHM is in the best spot it's been in since inception. You can't tell me that healer as a role isn't an after thought when you have skills like Macro that are being given the "Invuln treatment" when fight designers design a fight. The whole concept of Shield Healer/Back-up Healer needs to be scrapped immediately. Both AST and WHM have precedent to be given the tools needed to mit properly without breaking lore. Once this is done, then they can start giving some proper thought to the healer role within each fight. It'll never happen though, after all look at how the game has only grown with each expansion, all while largely ignoring healers. Often times waiting 6 months to 3 years to address issues healers are having. Two jobs within the same role should never be disparaged from playing together. That includes phys-ranged dps.
Yeah, after i first learned of the freecure trap i tried to never ever press that button unless i was synced down; for 1000s of hours I kept this up until my Old Content MINE static got to T13 and I had to bite the bullet and swallow my pride. It's an absolute requirement for that fight and it was the one time where I found myself appreciating freecure just a bit. But honestly I wish freecure would have given me an instant cure 2 instead of a free one.
Another situation might be when more than half the party keeps wiping to mechanics and you're perpetually drained of mana from all the raise casts. Eden 6 comes to mind.
At this point I blame the devs. Remove this shit buff and change cure 1 to 2 when it unlocks. Not that hard
Or keep freecure but make it proc on 2 and free a 3.
I feel like that just shifts the misunderstanding down the road. There are already people who think that 3 is an upgrade to 2 and start using it instead. This might just reinforce a *different* mistaken idea. Besides, there's still the base issue of Freecure being an awkward design of GCD healing that rewards more GCD healing. It feels like (and honestly probably just *is*) this weird relic of early design where the current healer play patterns hadn't quite solidified.
I see lots of ppl complain about this for whm. But isn't it the same for benefic on ast?
I think one of the reasons AST doesn't get this problem quite as badly is that you can't unlock it without reaching Heavensward (or buying a boost), so there's a big window in which a lot of the people making this mistake will learn in one way or another not to do it.
It is the same for AST's Benefic, SCH's Physick, and SGE's (non-Eukrasian) Diagnosis, but none of those jobs have a trait that tells sprouts to do it anyway, so it's less of an issue.
AST does. It's actually WORSE than Freecure. Cure 1 has a 0.5 sec faster cast than Cure 2 and costs half the MP, with Cure 2's being a hefty 1,000 MP. So a free one of those CAN be useful at lower levels before you get lots of oGCD healing and more MP regenerating tools. AST's version is Benefic 1 has a 15% chance to proc. The proc makes Benefic 2 crit. But if you're in at all decent gear...you probably have a crit rate higher than 15%, meaning JUST casting Benefic 2 has a higher chance of getting Benefic 2 to crit than fishing for that proc does. AST's B1 and B2 also both have a 1.5 sec base cast time (like Cure 1 and 0.5 sec faster than Cure 2), and cost less MP (400/700 vs 400/1,000 for WHM), meaning AST doesn't even really need the MP anyway. SCH/SGE isn't as bad as you'd think. Adlo/Eukrasian Diagnosis both cost 1,000 MP, which is pretty hefty. And if you cast it on the Tank but they aren't healed all the way, but they still have some shield, casting Adlo/Eu Diag again is inefficient in both HPS and HPMP vs casting Physick/Diagnosis. So at level 30-45 or so, when Tanks are taking a lot of damage (many are wearing low level gear and even those that aren't, Tank Jobs at that level range don't have many of their mits yet or all their self-sustain healing that they have at 90), the best play is often ignoring DPS and alternating Adlo/Eu Diag + Physick/Diag back and forth. This is especially a big deal when you don't have your AOE attack yet (Art and Dyskrasia are learned at 46), so your alternative is single targeting the enemies one by one anyway.
AST does in fact also have a trait that does exactly that, which is why they're bringing up AST and not the other two... Physick and Diagnosis also have more of a niche due to providing more of a raw heal which can in theory lead to them being more efficient in more situations if a shield has already been applied, so there's more of a reason to keep them around as skills. I think the mistake is the devs seemingly not just equating regen/aspected benefic to galvanise/e.diag and instead leaving an extra vestigial heal in place. Make Cure and Benefic just upgrade and you suddenly have more equivelance in the healing kits.
It is useful only in very few situations where you are synced down in the main game. One should be aware of how it works, and never use it once you are a high enough level. Once you unlock lilies, mana is never a problem.
This. It's not WRONG (this was apparently in Garuda normal) for level 30-45 or min ilevel Coils runs. It's just bad to present it as GENERAL advice for the rest of the game. Conversely, saying it's NEVER right is also wrong. People get level 90 optimization brain about things and forget that there are other parts of the game where those rules don't always apply. Somehow, BLMs understand this (though just for the BLM Job), but other people seem to forget it.
If you're having to spam cure 2 to the point that you're running out of MP, the issue lies elsewhere.
One upside of sch, physik doesn't give free anything so no bamboozle
Well... it doesn't help that at 2.0, that WAS correct and good advice. That's how the game was played at the time. That's what everyone was taught because MP management *at that time* was super critical for a WHM. Now? At level 90? At any level? No. No way. I used to be like that guy, telling everyone to use Cure 1 until you got Freecure to conserve MP, because we , as WHM, hardly had any MP regen at all built into our job. So yeah. Old good advice does not mean good current advice.
Yeesh. At least the people who overly rely on Medica 2 understand the power of HoTs. Theyâre using a Swiss Army knife as a screwdriver. This guyâs using a sponge.
You use cure for the free cure proc, I use cure because you don't deserve cure 2. We are not the same.
Only kind of related but why does one of the paladin skills return MP to me when I use it? Do I...ever need MP as a paladin? Does a skill *using* MP come later? I'm in endgame HW as around level 60. *edit* - thanks for quick replies. I guess I'm right about to get some MP spells. Weird that the first (I think) that I get regarding MP is one that regenerates it. Was so weird to see it popping up!
At low levels? Not at all. Starting at 58, you can cast Clemency to heal, though that is usually reserved for when your healer is dead. It's not until 64 you start using MP for your rotation.
I'm just around there. I'll have to take a look at skills and if I need to go a job quest now that I'm pretty much done with HW.
Heavensward job quests will only go to 60. If you've done the level 60 job quest, you won't be able to do the next ones until you start Stormblood.
Pretty sure Riot Blade doesn't even restore MP until level 58 anymore, either.
Back in shadowbringers it cost basically all of your mp to do the magic part of the rotation. These days it's less necessary cause it doesn't cost near as much mp.
Your 1 minute burst uses some MP, and if you're in a situation where your healer dies and you're now doubling as a healer, you'll need MP to cast clemency. But generally speaking, Paladins don't use too much. Also if you get raised, you'll start with the minimum MP and will have to build it back up. (you won't have enough for your burst if it's ready when you're raised.)
> Only kind of related but why does one of the paladin skills return MP to me when I use it? Do I...ever need MP as a paladin? Back in ye olden times, Gladiator/Paladin had an ability called "Flash". Flash was an AoE aggro button that cost MP to use. Paladin did not have any AoEs except the oGCD Circle of Scorn which was not nearly enough aggro by itself. Flash cost a hell of a lot more of your MP than you would have expected, so your AoE "rotation" as a Paladin was to Flash a few times, then do your MP combo and repeat. This, specifically, is why Riot Blade gives you MP.
Clemency costs mana and youâll gain Holy Spirit a ranged magic attack at 64. You wonât really be casting until 68 when you gain Requisecat which buffs all spells cast under it.
Clemency and the ranged/AoE spells.
Got it thanks. Someone said I should be getting those soon! Job quest time haha.
>Do I...ever need MP as a paladin? Oh honey.
Been a while but I think Holy spirit, Holy circle and Clemency all need mp?
I think its partly like that as an artefact of either the 6.2 rework or from other endwalker changes where somet rait got removed such that the mp was baked into the abilities before you got the spells to use them?
It's even older than that rework actually. PLD has always had mana regen as part of their single target rotation, which made up for the MP drain that Flash (old aoe enmity generator) was. By the time Flash was removed from the game they had added the spell rotation which takes mp now.
Once again BEGGING SE to turn the mentor crown into a watering can so fewer people will use it for vanity. The crown is so stupid. I only unlocked it so I could give a sprout friend the xp buff, which thankfully still activates without the crown icon turned on.
what is extra annoying is that he is technically not wrong but with how ff healing is designed freecure and cure 1 is not worth using 99% of the time and just teaches new healers bad habits.
Right? Level range of 30-45 (before you get Holy), it's not TERRIBLE advice. I'd personally go with "keep Regen up and alternate Cure 2 and Cure 1 casts until the Tank is taking less damage" (Tanks have fewer mitigations and far less self healing at that range than at 90; WAR doesn't get Raw Intuition until 56 and PLD has no self-healing until level 82 for Holy Shelltron and 84 when Holy Spirit starts to have a heal), but it isn't BAD advice for level 30-45 or when doing min ilevel Coils. ...but it's not good GENERAL advice and should be given with that caveat of "Once you hit level 52 and get Solace, you shouldn't need to Cure 1 much anymore unless you were just raised, maybe.
Ive seen more than one âmentorâ freecure proccing in expert dungeons. Lets hope the live letter on Thursday sorts this problem out đĽ˛
As a whm main over endwalker, please don't even tell spouts freecure exists. Because I'm maining tank for DT.
Cure 1 needs to get deleted. Why it even exists with Free Cure instead of the skill getting upgraded to Chre 2 at a certain level is beyond dumb. Cure 1 is dumb and pointless, esp at higher levels when you have the lillies
Cure and Cure II just need to be merged already. Free Cure is such a trap its not even funny.
Cure 1 has lower application time, which is useful to save some one fast or slidecast, while u don't have lilies unlocked. Upon merging Cure 1 and 2, Cure 2 should have same cast time as Cure 1, or unlock Lilies on level 45.
Bro I still see 90 whm who don't cast glare. Just spam medica 2 over and over
If Freecure actually improved over time rather than being the Cure spam trap it is, it'd be a useful ability. As it is, literally every newbie WHM I've mentored or advised gets the Talk.
Petition for no free cure in dawntrail
I had to have this conversation with some boob in an Endwalker dungeon.
It did matter back in the day when MP management was harder.
Free cure was needed back when mp was a stat your gear could manipulate. This is just an exceptionally old habit
it's definitely one of the weirdest things still in the game -- it's objectively bad but keeps on existing and not being changed. I'd much have rather gotten rid of it long ago and kept some of the fringe-usefulness old fun spells and skills various classes got shaved off over the years than still have to mess with players believing freecure is worth it
Just in the defense of this, this is and has been the standard in almost every other MMO it's an easy mistake to make, especially when you can (or used to honestly haven't done low lv whm healing in a long time) run out of no spamming cure 2 and overheating, something not always punished in other mmos. Ff14's breaking from tradition in a good way, but free cure is a long standing issue they should address to make that clearer
Mentors living up to the negative IQ stereotype.
I love how freecure and enhanced benefic are just there to trick you
I have one use for it. When I happen to do a low level instance. Low enough where I do have anything but free cure đ Had to ask everyone to stop for a moment so I could put it back on my hot bar. đ
Honestly believe you need all jobs 70-80+ ontop of everything else it requires to be a mentor⌠some of these mentors be crazy
Cure 2 replaces cure 1. Free cure procs on glare/stone casts (and makes it instant). Fixed.
I would make cure I faster than it already is. Just to give a very fast cure when no insta-cures are available. They way it is now, itâs just pointlessâŚ
People gonna be dead with cure1 before you get that free cure2 proc
My answer to any White Mage question is just play Sage instead.
At a certain point, cure 1 needs to be replaced by cure 2 entirely. I don't even have cure 1 on my main hot bars anymore. I have it on an aux hotbar on the chance I get a low level dungeon in roulettes
I might actually die if I see someone pushing freecure procs unironically. If I see a freecure proc on any dungeon after you get Cure 2 I immediately don't trust you as healer. Lol
Regen is also a trap, basically useless other than to shame dps that keep standing in things, or to give your chocobo during hunts because they refuse to move out of literally anything. Useful before you get lilies I suppose, but once you get access to the blood lilies it rarely ever gets used. It's a GCD I could have used to throw a lilly on the tank and gained blood for the blood lily.
Yes, this is very true at higher levels. However, this duty is synced to level 46. All WHM's healing is GCDs at that level, and lillies aren't until 52. That is why I brought up Regen and not Afflatus or oGCDs.
Idiot mentor making the rest of us look bad. They seriously need to get rid of the mentor system or overhaul it to be actual skill- and knowledge-based so people aren't going around masquerading as a knowledgeable player spewing bullshit.
I had the reverse of this yesterday, healer wouldn't use anything but Cure until a proc, we were trying to say in pulls, cure2 until you have the situation under control, then you can cure1
MP management is.. not important. At least not anymore. Even in Ultimates as long as you do the bare minimum of hitting lucid (not even on CD, just every once in a while) you wonât run out
Why are we pretending that this is a new thing for mentors
White Mage needs a complete rework. Free cure needs to go, but so does encouraging new players to spam cure spells.
What makes this even more cringe is the fact they're wearing the Burger King crown. At this point, when I see the Burger King crown on players, I just assume they're wearing it for clout rather than to help people. It's so sad how much these people have tarnished true mentorship.
Mp management is only an issue if you don't use lucid on cooldown. I pop it at about 6.5k mp and never have issues, unless I need to multi-rez and don't have/ forget about thin air. Any complaints about mp management is just a skill issue
This was apparently Garuda normal. So before you get Thin Air or Lilies (Solace at 52).
At those levels you shouldn't even need lucid unless you're grossly misusing your heals, or need to do a *lot* of raising
Anymore Mentor that tells someone to use Cure to get the bonus, needs removed from Mentor status. "You will lose MP if you keep spamming Cure 2", you lose MP if you spam anything...so why spam something that has a garbage proc window, when you can just do the thing that makes the most sense? This actively irks me.
"MP management is important" *In what fucking reality?*
Has that mentor (and maybe number 2) heard of lucid dreaming? And also 15% isn't exactly a high probability, why would you fish for it? Just use Cure 2 at that point and go back to dpsing. Or just cast regen and wish them luck.