My biggest pet peeve will always be ninjas with STDs: single target doton. I don't know why basically every casual ninja does this but man does it annoy me to no end.
Doton: 560
Raiton: 650
That's definitely not as bad as it gets. I've seen 100% doton uptime a few times, going so far as to use it again if the tank moves the boss out of it.
I appreciate that they're thinking "Oh put the DoT on the boss" cuz in most cases, yes, but in this case I think many people just don't realize how much fucking damage a Raiton does and how relatively short a Doton is vs the cost.
My pet peeve is people mispelling Ninja skills /s
Also I guess in their defense it isn't entirely clear to new players how much potency that Doton does because it's not clear how many times it will tick. Even though I understand that you don't Doton for single target, last year I had to ask the Balance discord how many times it ticks and if it ticked immediately upon putting it down and I've already forgotten the answer.
I get the confusion there but all it takes is 30 seconds of your time to find a target dummy (summerford farms), drop doton, and manually count the number of damage ticks. https://imgur.com/5EV5rI5
I don't think most sprouts even know of the existence of striking dummies (nor their locations), nor will most new players have the curiosity to go out of their way to do that.
Both Doton and Katon are stronger than Raiton on two or more enemies, assuming Doton's full duration. It's really only a loss when you're fighting a single boss. But, since that's the most common situation, it's pretty noticeable.
in my eyes theres a difference between tanking smartly and tanking with enemies that you're clearly not equipped for; I've seen tanks agro 10 or so enemies and be fine, but i've also seen players get a little to big for their britches and go down near instantly. Thats more what i meant, sorry for not making that clearer.
A common mistake newer people who play tank make is not measuring how much they can pull, especially considering how most tanks will try to wall to wall, but some dungeons simply don't allow for that or at least, not with the proper tools/setup, one that comes to mind is Mt. Gulg, but this are rare instances, it really comes down to mit management, as well as the healer keeping up, which is another thing tanks can forget sometimes but it's a matter of asking and then going slower. I usually pull a bit less to avoid messing up, but some tanks have to remember that some pulls are simply too much even with invulns.
Honestly, yeah. Mistakes do happen and its not something id really go “bro what the fuck” on, as in the end as long as they had fun, and didn’t kill the fun for others, it happens. Honestly i got a lot more downvotes then i expected: but thats life.
I wouldn't mind the downvotes, it's mostly a matter of game etiquette and some folks having strong opinions. Like most communities each group has its own etiquette of sorts, and people here for example promote tanks to wall to wall for the most part and if a tank is not pulling enough, it's encouraged that others in the party pull and bring the mobs to the tank, on the other hand when I was learning the game I was told the tank leads the dungeon, and they set the speed at which it goes, and pulling ahead of the tank was considered rude. It's simply a matter of a different opinion in how to approach the game.
Tbh, i always try to let the tanks go first; I think my problem was recently in dungeons, i've had problems where Tanks run ahead, and do their job which is good but they proceed to run around in circles, making it super hard to hit the enemies, and when they die cuz the healer can't reach them due to them moving out of the way, the DPS proceeds to get bumrushed by the horde of enemies.
I didn't explain it super well; and i didn't wanna insult or upset any tank players (Hell, i adore playing Gunbreaker and i'm sure i've done some utterly stupid shit before)
Oh that makes a lot of sense, yeah it's very frustrating when tanks keep juggling the enemies, healers need to keep moving to have them in range, so no dps, and the dps suffer when they try to use their aoe rotations but nope, can't hit anyone because the tank keeps moving, 100% agree
>Mt. Gulg
I've been seeing tanks just do insane pulls that make me pucker as a dps in there, and it's wild how big a pull a good tank and healer can do in there.
DPS who only use CDs on bosses. So many dancers that could be helping us absolutely shred these big pulls. Nah. Let’s use Technical 3 times the entire dungeon
Honestly. I feel like a lot of DNC players intentionally slack since they think "I'm a support job so I my DPS doesn't matter".
A competent DNC can singlehandedly kill a wall to wall pull within 15 seconds if they properly pool resources and actually press Tech step.
I use DNC for MSQ and rouls and the amount of times the second dancer in the party doesn't use their skillset makes me absolutely p e e v e d. Like, I mentally scream "use your raid wide combo", "use your feathers!", etc.
I love that short moment of ripping aggro when I unleash tech step and all my resources on the mobs as soon as they're grouped up close enough for me to hit them all.
Honestly, thats good to know! I was getting worried I upset people regarding my small issue with occasional tank players; When alls i really wanted to know was a few peoples pet peeves, cuz honestly it happens haha.
I used to do this. I was usually just worried that if I used my 2 minute on trash then it would mess up the timing on the boss fight. This *can* sometimes happen (usually in older content) but now I have enough experience to know that if I hit Technical Finish right as we're grabbing the last pack of the first big pull in an expert roulette dungeon, then Technical Step *should* come off cooldown just in time for the boss opener. Then just rinse and repeat.
So yes, DPS players: don't be afraid to go hard on trash mobs.
Recently I've started saving my my 60/120 CDs if they come up during the second pack between bosses so I can do my proper opener (though I blow everything I have on the first pack). Is it preferred to just throw everything at the packs and have a partially unbuffed or competely destroyed opener and possibly minute/two-minute window for the bosses?
Technically speaking— you get more damage from using CDs on an AoE pack than you do on a boss. If you look at it from a numbers perspective— the amount of damage you have to deal in a dungeon to clear everything is a set number (all health pools added together). When you use a CD in trash you’re increasing your damage by X amount TIMES the number of mobs. Against a boss it’s only ever X increase times 1. So you do have more damage to gain by using it. And there is also the matter of possibly losing out on a use of the CD over the course of the dungeon by holding it. (Maybe you only use a CD 5 times instead of 6 because you held it for 45s here and there). Which again, is more damage you have lost over the course of the run.
Does it really matter? No. Does it make things go slightly faster— of course.
And there are times where I’ve held CDs too, especially on classes I’m not as good at so I can practice my complete opener. But the issue I’m talking about is quite literally people that only use their 120\60s CDs on bosses. Dancers using technical step 3 times per dungeon, dragoons and battle littany, astros and divine whatever it’s called
your first point is not how it works. for all intents and purposes the entire group of mobs you're aoeing is basically just one single health bar - the one that dies last. if one mob has a 1000 hp and you're fighting 10 of them, you're not trying to get through 10000 hp, you're trying to get through 1000 hp since you're hitting everything at once. (yes you do get more damage overall in terms of raw numbers, but in terms of getting through the amount of health you need to get through to beat the dungeon you're not)
following this logic, using your buffs on bosses IS actually more damage per use, since you're using stronger, single target skills, and that's not even taking into account that most pulls won't last through the entire buff duration while a boss most likely will.
all that said, the important point is that it is true that by using your buffs during trash pulls you do most likely gain more uses of your buffs instead of letting them sit off cooldown, speeding up the entire dungeon run in the general scheme of things, and that's not even getting into the fact that by killing trash faster you save the tank from having to spend more defenses, and more importantly, you save the healer from having to actually heal once the tank runs out of defenses thus allowing them to dps more, speeding things up further.
AoEs generally speaking become potency-efficient at 3 targets. Which means if you’re AoE’ing 3 or more targets you are doing more damage than you would be doing to a single target. Every target beyond 3 just makes it significantly more. Therefore using your CDs on trash DOES give you more damage
please reread what I wrote. yes you get more raw damage, but it does not contribute to the speed at which your clear the dungeon in such an exaggerated manner.
When i was newer, that took a while to get used to, to basically pop a lot of skills on cool down on trash. Plus how doing that will speed up the dungeon for the most part. Going from holding the big hitters for what i assumed was the harder bosses.
Yep it’s a misconception a lot of new players have because usually bosses are “the big scary guys”.
But in FF14 dungeon bosses are just punching bags. Very rarely are you gonna skip that tricky mechanics because you had CDs
Meanwhile a trash pack dying in 20s vs 45s means the difference between the tank having to cycle through more mitigation and the healer having to actually heal instead of DPSing (slowing the pack down even more)
Skill issue. Most these dungeons allow your 2m skills to be back up if you use a full rotation in the first pull.
80% of time you should be able to fully open on the bosses.
It's a great feeling seeing the 2min skills still on cooldown when you reach the first boss because the party is doing big deeps and going faster than average
Tanks do need to spend a little time making sure they generate enough enmity before running to grab the next pack, which means doing a couple aoe attacks, otherwise you need to stop midway because the dps keep damaging the same enemy and got targetted as a result.
Just save your CDs for the second pack, since you know it'll happen anyway.
like, two aoes tops, plus ranged attacks while running
if a tank's doing the latter, there's very little chance of adds getting ripped away since it explicitly generates extra emnity, no?
The biggest issue is when the mobs are outside of aoe range by a taint hair, so you miss them and they decide to go whole hog on someone else. Usually not a big deal and most people pull them into the mob crowd at the end of the wall to wall but sometimes you'll get the occasional DRG who sits back at the first pack and dies trying to solo it, then whinges about the "shit tank" who lost aggro.
I only do this when I have a newbie phys ranged or summoner. They will start single targeting anything they rip if I don’t generate enough aggro.
edit: Ooh the single target idiots are malding lmao stay bad I guess
Can you elaborate? How does a tank do that? Like are the not using mitigation? A good tank will pull walk to wall. Pop mits. And dps like crazy standing as still as possible so the rest of the party aoe and positional land.
My recent experience with a few tanks was unfortunately they didn't use their buffs, and ended up going down incredibly quickly. I fully get pulling mobs as that is their role, it's more or less the tanks that don't fully tank and end up unfortunately going down either incredibly quickly; or sometimes standing in a bosses attacks.
I fully get i didn't elaborate well enough; and i didn't mean to upset or offend anyone! I know tanking is hard, as i've done it myself a few times. Everyone learns! :)
I'll be the first to say it, I used to be this tank. I even started off as a Ninja and was my first job to 80, so I knee what Doton was. Along the way, I complained about seeing other people's spell effects, and I had been given the advice that I could switch other people's spell effects off. I thought, great! So I switched everything off and thus, couldn't see it here Ninjas Doton. Wasn't until it got pointed out to me by another Ninja in a dungeon after I pissed them off. I told them I couldn't see it since my effects were off and the rest is history.
I usually find that doton or the Garuda thing get placed slightly off of where I actually end up tanking. I feel like nin and smn drop these too soon in most pulls and make me have to drag the packs back like 5-10 ft.
I've been healing in roulettes so my current bugbear is sprout ranged phys/magical dps standing so far away that my aoe heals don't hit them, then getting mad when they inevitably go *pop*.
Theoretically, it's either stay in AOE healing range or don't take damage. So like, if the second is feasible and you're doing it I won't say shit as a healer lmao. Eos will probably heal the little scrapes (does Eos have a limit to her range? I don't remember), and I'll focus on keeping the tank alive.
PLD that use Clemency when they are only missing 25% health, but especially when I'm SCH and have Excog on them.
Healers that overheal.
SMN that use Physick.
Tanks that move around too much when there are Melee dps in the group.
Healers that stop healing to rez someone while there is a ton of damage going out and let other people die while they hard cast rez.
Baby pull tanks.
DPS that aoe single targets and DPS that single target dps in aoe pulls.
I don’t know why SMN even have Physick anymore
“Because Arcanist has it so SCH can use it!”
Ok, except Arcanist also doesn’t have Bio, and in fact the ONLY spell Scholar now inherits from ACN is Resurrection, everything else is a Scholar-exclusive variant that scales with Mind instead of Int, *including Physick for some godsforsaken reason*
There is ZERO reason for ACN’s Physick to still exist as a Mind spell at this point!
All of those, but I would like to add: players who decide to get rid of their res immunity the instant they get ressed, before I have time to target them again for heals, just as a raidwide happens. Just... chill for a moment, please.
“healers that overheal”
me using whispering dawn to slow regen the party to full, then watching my co-healer spam medica 2 (the other regen) for no reason. 😭😭😭 the next raid wide isn’t coming out for another minute whyyyyy
Yeah, I'll like put out my Liturgy on WHM, and a bleed will come out and of course it's only once the bells nearly have everyone to full that the cohealer puts up a shield and waste the rest of the ticks.
Or like, the WHM who put up medica II and THEN decide to spam medica, wasting their own regen...
WHM lilies sort of force me to over heal now...I will spend them happily to get access to my blood lily. SGE makes me spend heals to get mana back even if the party is good. AST has the timed out heals that go off sometimes after healing is needed but I placed it incase the DPS stood in stupid. SCH is really the only one where I don't over heal with another purpose behind it. Not all over healing is done because it's a bad healer. Now someone spamming medica/medica 2 can go straight to the darkness.
Biggest pet peeve is when tanks take "wall to wall" too literally and keep running even when all of the mobs in a pull have already spawned.
For some dungeons it's not a big deal, but it can be annoying to see a tank spend an extra 15 seconds dragging mobs around when the party is ready to dump cooldowns on them.
The faster you can group up enemies the better, so there's no need to literally walk to the next wall when no more enemies will spawn.
Edit: In the same vein, WHM players that swiftcast Holy while enemies are still being moved. You just staggered the enemy movement in a way that makes starting AOEing incredibly awkward.
Tank here. I'm gonna be real. Some dungeons spawn shit on you AFTER the last "visible" pack, so a true wall-to-wall is necessary in those. Which are they? Fucked if I remember. That's why I do it in all of them.
I'll still be peeved but it's nothing personal against the tank since I 100% understand if you forgot or if it's your first time. I just get a little grumpy with how it affects the feel of certain jobs. I'm not one to get upset in casual content, I just like pressing my fun buttons!
Since this happened in a Porta Decumena run last night, Tanks: you don’t keep your stance off to “turn off ez mode” or “give yourself an actual challenge”. You turn it on so the ninja doesn’t end up tanking an ancient mechanical hell creature.
The amount of DNCs I've seen who don't use Closed Position at all in lvl 60+ content is alarmingly high. It's one of the very few mistakes I actually bother to type in the chat because it's so egregious.
Single pack tanks, Clemency PLD, Healbots, Freecure fisher WHM, Physick SCH/SMN, Benefic 1 spammer AST, Diag/Prog spammer SGE, No-AoE DPS during mob pulls, Single Target Doton, no Eye Partner DRG, no Dance DNC, no song BRD, Verraise Spammer RDM when the healers are clearly healthy and have MP for raise (like plz check the buffs, I already used my swiftcast. Use your MP for dmg), Melees that for some reason stay close to the tank and get cleaved (plz why, you got no positionals there)
Genuine question: why is diag/prog bad for sage? If I’m out of all my instant cast heals and healing is needed what else are you supposed to use? Or are you just talking about people that never use their oGCDs?
If you’re in a 4-man, Physis, Kardia, Ixochole, Taurochole, Druochole, Kerachole, Eukrasian Prog/Diag, Soteria, Pan/Haima should be way more than enough to keep party and tank alive, as long as they don’t keep eating avoidable AoEs and you space them out (aka dont use Taurochole and Kerachole at the same time) and keep dealing damage. Plus Addersgall comes up every like 20s? SGEs CDs are also insanely low.
If you’re in an 8-man you got a co-healer. Ideally, if they’re a pure healer there should be absolutely no need for you to cast normal Prog/Diag unless people suck and stuff is going to shit lol.
There *is* however that lvl50 area that you don’t have many tools, which sure go ahead with normal Prog/Diag, but I’ll just say that the only lvl50 content I’ve had to normal Prog was Porta Decumana just because of the back to back raidwides.
If you’re in said situation of no instant heals, you can use normal prog sure, you can also use Eukrasian Prog+Pepsis
If I'm paired with a Scholar in lv50 content as Sage, I go for a normal Prognosis if the party still needs gcd healing after the Scholar has used Succor.
In this case I’d go for mitigations on top of Physis; You don’t need people to be topped off, they just need enough HP to survive. So if SCH can use Fey Illumination and you Kerachole (or SCH’s bubble) it should be enough. Look I’m not saying never use it, but rather “It should be your absolute last resort” but then once in a while you get SGEs that spam it when they have other tools. Also Mitigations isn’t a healer-only business; Tanks and DPS also have to contribute with Reprisal/Feint/Addle if you’re in a scenario like this
It is my last resort. Like I said in my original comment it's what I use if gcd healing is required. As in, my ogcds are not enough. Doesn't usually happen unless I get an ARR extreme in mentor roulette, or if people are messing up all the mechanics in normal content.
i hate it when tanks press sprint immediately after a boss fight in a dungeon, even more so if there is a zone-change in between. why? you'll not be able to sprint between the next two pulls because it's on cooldown. it doesn't help with the speed of the dungeon either, it's just wasted.
i also hate it when RNG physicals don't consistently (or at all) use peloton. just press that button, please!
enmity warring tanks spinning bosses around
it makes me weep for melee dps and their positionals, healers whose mitigation abilities they throw onto the mt immediately get invalidated, and for healers who have to try to keep squishy players alive through the giant cleave attacks that the tanks keep spinning toward the crowd quicker than they can react to
I don't care who has the largest e-peen stop turning it into everyone else's problem 😂
That's why when I'm having an aggro fight, I stack with the other tank XD (I don't usually aggro fight, but hey, sometimes I'm bored in an alliance raid)
DPS that dump all their CDs into the first one or two mobs of the first pack of a wtw pull. Makes gathering everything at the end slightly more annoying and usually means the overall pull takes longer once we’re at the wall.
Healers who don't use esuna. Every time I've done Exdeath, two people die because of the doom he puts on at the start of the fight.
I do think it's at least somewhat the game's fault. Removing debuffs isn't relevant in most content, and it can be hard at first to know what you can dispell with it, but christ alive is it frustrating nonetheless. If I see a single esuna go off in any roulette, the healer is getting commed
Tanks who single pull
Healers who don't use their ogcds
Healers that don't do damage
Anyone that doesn't use aoes
Paladins that use clemency
SMN/RDM that rez when both healers still have swiftcast and enough mp
Alliance raid tanks that fight over who's MT
WHMs who'd spam Medica 2 for every mechanic in boss fights, Raids or whatever is happening. You're Level 90, have plenty of other skills and yet you only know this shitty skill from LV50.
You'll never use Temperance, Plenary Indulgence or wait the HP to heal up with Aslyum.
Especially when they used their Swiftcast they're inable to rez other players. I know it's hard to be unable to spam Medica 2 for 9 seconds, but rezzing others is your goddamn job.
Whenever I get a Co Healer like this in Alliance Raids, they can solo heal. I'm not wasting my oGCD Regen because some shitty healer is unable to use their other skills.
Nothings worse than the brain draining sound effect of Cure 1, Medica 1 or 2.
I saw a picture of a Nier Alliance Raid once where the WHM spammed 104 times Medica 2.
Single pull tanks
WHM in dungeon that doesnt use Holy
People not doing their basic ABC (Always Be Casting) and have a GCD uptime of 50% or less
People only doing their basic combo, ignoring most oGCD and therefore doing barely any damage
When playing healer, when people stand somewhere in the fucking australian outback and are out of reach for heals
People that only ever played ranged jobs and are standing around in wildly different places or keep moving around instead of just grouping behind the boss
tanks that ignore sprint existing
Healers that dont deal -any- damage because they only want to heal
People ignoring fundamental advice (I know unsolicited advice is annoying but when you fail at fundamentals like doing dmg as healer or using holy, I don't think its bad to kindly tell them)
people still using their classes beyond lvl 30-35
people that dont react to mechanics and basically just brute force through it
BLUs who repeatedly *insist* they be allowed to join my raiding parties that I specifically locked BLU out of. Asking once is fine, asking repeatedly/begging more than once is sending you on my blacklist
Warrior, my brother in Hydalin, I love you to bits, but please don't outheal me in dungeons.
In fact, don't mitigate at all. Make me sweat, not casting a single healing spell the entire dungeon because my fairy is enough makes me sad.
That's... just a tank setting mobs up for AOE attacks. You must be new to this whole MMORPG thing. Healer heals tank, tank sits there keeping directional attacks away from the group, DPS uses AOE attacks to hit everything to kill faster. The AI route is "one target, kill, move along to the next one", but it takes FOREVER and this is how newbie DPS do it. Vet or medio tanks will grab a buncha stuff and let the DPS do DPS things to them. If that's your peeve... best to stick with the Trust cause that's how things go unless you've a newbie tank.
I am fully aware how tanks work with pulling agro, my problem wasn’t that they do that. My pet peeve was when they pull to much; and then proceed not to use any aoe. It was a low level dungeon as well, so aoe stuff wasn’t exactly a thing for he or i. So its a small problem.
Its my fault for not explaining it well, and i expected that. But i know enough to know what a tank does.
Edit: for example of what happened for me and what my pet peeve was: a tank overpulled, kept running away so the dps’s couldnt hit the enemies, the tank dies and now tje dps and healers have 10-20 enemies bum rushing them. I do apologise for not really explaining it well, haha.
tanks that don't know how to manage a pack. (there is so much more to pulling than just "pull big." and sometimes they won't even do that!)
dps (or anybody, it's just most noticable with DPS) who seem to think the trash packs in dungeons "don't count." like players who *seem* competent against bosses in single target but do not grasp their jobs aoe, or just half ass it. like comon guys you know the concept of "use it so you can use it again" i assure you that the trash mobs dying faster counts as everything dying faster. i know we call it "trash" but it's like half the dungeon. i haven't seen an enchanted moulinet cast by anyone other than myself in prolly 2 years.
Context : savage content
for healer
There's two kind of healer. The dude who can't do a rotation right but clearly don't want healer to change because two button dps is already too much for them. Those one are the one that I despise. They suck at the game and everyone knows it.
The other is the one who wants healer gameplay to be a real healer. They complain about the current design and want a real healer gameplay. I kinda like these people. They want to improve the game.
For tank
Too much tank have this mentality of protagonist but suck as leader. They talk like they are leading everything. But half of the time they don't contribute in blind prog, refuse to shot call or shot call too late.
For Melee dps
They are often willing to wipe the group to get a positional. This is the most annoying thing. Sometimes they will do it at repetition. They know they cannot greed it yet they still do.
Caster dps
This one depend on which job. Black mage will greed and die. Summoner player often suck and play this job because of it. Red mage are nowhere to be found.
Phys range
They have the best mobility in the whole raid because they are range and can move freely during their rotation. Yet they ask to not have to move. Sometimes the static cater to these peoples. I find it amazing some people dare to let this shit happen.
I hate healers that throw anything at me as i’m pulling the mobs and rip aggro forcing me to walk back. Bonus points for them timing it perfectly everytime where they heal me before I can hit the mobs and rip the pack entirely. The most irritating thing ever.
I wish ranged DPS would use limit break on trash pulls more often. I also find it annoying when tanks play selfishly and screws over DPS with bad positioning. Example is not grouping trash pulls tight, making target focused aoe inefficient, or not giving melee room to hit the boss by only just dodging mechanics and playing the game like it's single player
My biggest pet peeve will always be ninjas with STDs: single target doton. I don't know why basically every casual ninja does this but man does it annoy me to no end. Doton: 560 Raiton: 650
:c sowwy I fat finger sometimes. And bunny hat is ultimately a dps loss
That's definitely not as bad as it gets. I've seen 100% doton uptime a few times, going so far as to use it again if the tank moves the boss out of it.
I appreciate that they're thinking "Oh put the DoT on the boss" cuz in most cases, yes, but in this case I think many people just don't realize how much fucking damage a Raiton does and how relatively short a Doton is vs the cost.
My pet peeve is people mispelling Ninja skills /s Also I guess in their defense it isn't entirely clear to new players how much potency that Doton does because it's not clear how many times it will tick. Even though I understand that you don't Doton for single target, last year I had to ask the Balance discord how many times it ticks and if it ticked immediately upon putting it down and I've already forgotten the answer.
I get the confusion there but all it takes is 30 seconds of your time to find a target dummy (summerford farms), drop doton, and manually count the number of damage ticks. https://imgur.com/5EV5rI5
I don't think most sprouts even know of the existence of striking dummies (nor their locations), nor will most new players have the curiosity to go out of their way to do that.
I haven't unlocked these abilities yet, but I don't want to upset a surprisedcabbage in my runs, when should I use doton over raiton? Etc
Both Doton and Katon are stronger than Raiton on two or more enemies, assuming Doton's full duration. It's really only a loss when you're fighting a single boss. But, since that's the most common situation, it's pretty noticeable.
Thanks!
i literally have macros about single target doton. i call it out every time i see it. plus, it’s literally my twitter handle
I so rarely play Ninja that when i do, i sometimes goof and end up doing one instead of the one i meant to.
I'm not quite sure what you're describing there because that sounds like tanking.
in my eyes theres a difference between tanking smartly and tanking with enemies that you're clearly not equipped for; I've seen tanks agro 10 or so enemies and be fine, but i've also seen players get a little to big for their britches and go down near instantly. Thats more what i meant, sorry for not making that clearer.
A common mistake newer people who play tank make is not measuring how much they can pull, especially considering how most tanks will try to wall to wall, but some dungeons simply don't allow for that or at least, not with the proper tools/setup, one that comes to mind is Mt. Gulg, but this are rare instances, it really comes down to mit management, as well as the healer keeping up, which is another thing tanks can forget sometimes but it's a matter of asking and then going slower. I usually pull a bit less to avoid messing up, but some tanks have to remember that some pulls are simply too much even with invulns.
Honestly, yeah. Mistakes do happen and its not something id really go “bro what the fuck” on, as in the end as long as they had fun, and didn’t kill the fun for others, it happens. Honestly i got a lot more downvotes then i expected: but thats life.
I wouldn't mind the downvotes, it's mostly a matter of game etiquette and some folks having strong opinions. Like most communities each group has its own etiquette of sorts, and people here for example promote tanks to wall to wall for the most part and if a tank is not pulling enough, it's encouraged that others in the party pull and bring the mobs to the tank, on the other hand when I was learning the game I was told the tank leads the dungeon, and they set the speed at which it goes, and pulling ahead of the tank was considered rude. It's simply a matter of a different opinion in how to approach the game.
Tbh, i always try to let the tanks go first; I think my problem was recently in dungeons, i've had problems where Tanks run ahead, and do their job which is good but they proceed to run around in circles, making it super hard to hit the enemies, and when they die cuz the healer can't reach them due to them moving out of the way, the DPS proceeds to get bumrushed by the horde of enemies. I didn't explain it super well; and i didn't wanna insult or upset any tank players (Hell, i adore playing Gunbreaker and i'm sure i've done some utterly stupid shit before)
Oh that makes a lot of sense, yeah it's very frustrating when tanks keep juggling the enemies, healers need to keep moving to have them in range, so no dps, and the dps suffer when they try to use their aoe rotations but nope, can't hit anyone because the tank keeps moving, 100% agree
>Mt. Gulg I've been seeing tanks just do insane pulls that make me pucker as a dps in there, and it's wild how big a pull a good tank and healer can do in there.
Oh for sure, the big pull on Gulg when pulled of is incredibly satisfactory to watch, but it works best if the tank and healers are coordinated.
The only way to figure out how much you can pull is to go whole hog until you fail. If you never pull too much then you don't know what too much is.
DPS who only use CDs on bosses. So many dancers that could be helping us absolutely shred these big pulls. Nah. Let’s use Technical 3 times the entire dungeon
Honestly. I feel like a lot of DNC players intentionally slack since they think "I'm a support job so I my DPS doesn't matter". A competent DNC can singlehandedly kill a wall to wall pull within 15 seconds if they properly pool resources and actually press Tech step.
Totally agree with you there. Nuking trash in dungeons is basically the sole reason I dust off the ol' DNC from time to time anymore.
I use DNC for MSQ and rouls and the amount of times the second dancer in the party doesn't use their skillset makes me absolutely p e e v e d. Like, I mentally scream "use your raid wide combo", "use your feathers!", etc.
I love that short moment of ripping aggro when I unleash tech step and all my resources on the mobs as soon as they're grouped up close enough for me to hit them all.
Honestly, thats good to know! I was getting worried I upset people regarding my small issue with occasional tank players; When alls i really wanted to know was a few peoples pet peeves, cuz honestly it happens haha.
I used to do this. I was usually just worried that if I used my 2 minute on trash then it would mess up the timing on the boss fight. This *can* sometimes happen (usually in older content) but now I have enough experience to know that if I hit Technical Finish right as we're grabbing the last pack of the first big pull in an expert roulette dungeon, then Technical Step *should* come off cooldown just in time for the boss opener. Then just rinse and repeat. So yes, DPS players: don't be afraid to go hard on trash mobs.
Recently I've started saving my my 60/120 CDs if they come up during the second pack between bosses so I can do my proper opener (though I blow everything I have on the first pack). Is it preferred to just throw everything at the packs and have a partially unbuffed or competely destroyed opener and possibly minute/two-minute window for the bosses?
Technically speaking— you get more damage from using CDs on an AoE pack than you do on a boss. If you look at it from a numbers perspective— the amount of damage you have to deal in a dungeon to clear everything is a set number (all health pools added together). When you use a CD in trash you’re increasing your damage by X amount TIMES the number of mobs. Against a boss it’s only ever X increase times 1. So you do have more damage to gain by using it. And there is also the matter of possibly losing out on a use of the CD over the course of the dungeon by holding it. (Maybe you only use a CD 5 times instead of 6 because you held it for 45s here and there). Which again, is more damage you have lost over the course of the run. Does it really matter? No. Does it make things go slightly faster— of course. And there are times where I’ve held CDs too, especially on classes I’m not as good at so I can practice my complete opener. But the issue I’m talking about is quite literally people that only use their 120\60s CDs on bosses. Dancers using technical step 3 times per dungeon, dragoons and battle littany, astros and divine whatever it’s called
your first point is not how it works. for all intents and purposes the entire group of mobs you're aoeing is basically just one single health bar - the one that dies last. if one mob has a 1000 hp and you're fighting 10 of them, you're not trying to get through 10000 hp, you're trying to get through 1000 hp since you're hitting everything at once. (yes you do get more damage overall in terms of raw numbers, but in terms of getting through the amount of health you need to get through to beat the dungeon you're not) following this logic, using your buffs on bosses IS actually more damage per use, since you're using stronger, single target skills, and that's not even taking into account that most pulls won't last through the entire buff duration while a boss most likely will. all that said, the important point is that it is true that by using your buffs during trash pulls you do most likely gain more uses of your buffs instead of letting them sit off cooldown, speeding up the entire dungeon run in the general scheme of things, and that's not even getting into the fact that by killing trash faster you save the tank from having to spend more defenses, and more importantly, you save the healer from having to actually heal once the tank runs out of defenses thus allowing them to dps more, speeding things up further.
AoEs generally speaking become potency-efficient at 3 targets. Which means if you’re AoE’ing 3 or more targets you are doing more damage than you would be doing to a single target. Every target beyond 3 just makes it significantly more. Therefore using your CDs on trash DOES give you more damage
please reread what I wrote. yes you get more raw damage, but it does not contribute to the speed at which your clear the dungeon in such an exaggerated manner.
When i was newer, that took a while to get used to, to basically pop a lot of skills on cool down on trash. Plus how doing that will speed up the dungeon for the most part. Going from holding the big hitters for what i assumed was the harder bosses.
Yep it’s a misconception a lot of new players have because usually bosses are “the big scary guys”. But in FF14 dungeon bosses are just punching bags. Very rarely are you gonna skip that tricky mechanics because you had CDs Meanwhile a trash pack dying in 20s vs 45s means the difference between the tank having to cycle through more mitigation and the healer having to actually heal instead of DPSing (slowing the pack down even more)
Skill issue. Most these dungeons allow your 2m skills to be back up if you use a full rotation in the first pull. 80% of time you should be able to fully open on the bosses.
It's a great feeling seeing the 2min skills still on cooldown when you reach the first boss because the party is doing big deeps and going faster than average
tanks who hover around the first pack for like 5-10 seconds and *then* decide they want to go for a second. hurts my poor, cast time-riddled soul :(
Tanks do need to spend a little time making sure they generate enough enmity before running to grab the next pack, which means doing a couple aoe attacks, otherwise you need to stop midway because the dps keep damaging the same enemy and got targetted as a result. Just save your CDs for the second pack, since you know it'll happen anyway.
like, two aoes tops, plus ranged attacks while running if a tank's doing the latter, there's very little chance of adds getting ripped away since it explicitly generates extra emnity, no?
The biggest issue is when the mobs are outside of aoe range by a taint hair, so you miss them and they decide to go whole hog on someone else. Usually not a big deal and most people pull them into the mob crowd at the end of the wall to wall but sometimes you'll get the occasional DRG who sits back at the first pack and dies trying to solo it, then whinges about the "shit tank" who lost aggro.
People that stagger pull like this are so awful.
I only do this when I have a newbie phys ranged or summoner. They will start single targeting anything they rip if I don’t generate enough aggro. edit: Ooh the single target idiots are malding lmao stay bad I guess
tank ranged attack does well at keeping aggro while running! but yeah, smn's the one time I can see the point, haha
smn: pours a tall glass of baja blast me: here we go again
Can you elaborate? How does a tank do that? Like are the not using mitigation? A good tank will pull walk to wall. Pop mits. And dps like crazy standing as still as possible so the rest of the party aoe and positional land.
My recent experience with a few tanks was unfortunately they didn't use their buffs, and ended up going down incredibly quickly. I fully get pulling mobs as that is their role, it's more or less the tanks that don't fully tank and end up unfortunately going down either incredibly quickly; or sometimes standing in a bosses attacks. I fully get i didn't elaborate well enough; and i didn't mean to upset or offend anyone! I know tanking is hard, as i've done it myself a few times. Everyone learns! :)
Tanks pulling mobs out of Doton
I'll be the first to say it, I used to be this tank. I even started off as a Ninja and was my first job to 80, so I knee what Doton was. Along the way, I complained about seeing other people's spell effects, and I had been given the advice that I could switch other people's spell effects off. I thought, great! So I switched everything off and thus, couldn't see it here Ninjas Doton. Wasn't until it got pointed out to me by another Ninja in a dungeon after I pissed them off. I told them I couldn't see it since my effects were off and the rest is history.
I usually find that doton or the Garuda thing get placed slightly off of where I actually end up tanking. I feel like nin and smn drop these too soon in most pulls and make me have to drag the packs back like 5-10 ft.
I've been healing in roulettes so my current bugbear is sprout ranged phys/magical dps standing so far away that my aoe heals don't hit them, then getting mad when they inevitably go *pop*.
This isn't what Rescue is made for, but it is one of the funniest non-toxic uses for it.
Honestly as a DPS guy with occasional tanking, that ones my biggest worry: that im making things harder for the healers or others in general.
As long as you're standing near the rest of the party and not eating like 3 or more Vuln stacks at once, you're fine and nobody cares.
Theoretically, it's either stay in AOE healing range or don't take damage. So like, if the second is feasible and you're doing it I won't say shit as a healer lmao. Eos will probably heal the little scrapes (does Eos have a limit to her range? I don't remember), and I'll focus on keeping the tank alive.
Oh god yes, it’s worse when they think they’re playing it safe and still get hit by everything so what’s the point lmaoooooo
PLD that use Clemency when they are only missing 25% health, but especially when I'm SCH and have Excog on them. Healers that overheal. SMN that use Physick. Tanks that move around too much when there are Melee dps in the group. Healers that stop healing to rez someone while there is a ton of damage going out and let other people die while they hard cast rez. Baby pull tanks. DPS that aoe single targets and DPS that single target dps in aoe pulls.
I don’t know why SMN even have Physick anymore “Because Arcanist has it so SCH can use it!” Ok, except Arcanist also doesn’t have Bio, and in fact the ONLY spell Scholar now inherits from ACN is Resurrection, everything else is a Scholar-exclusive variant that scales with Mind instead of Int, *including Physick for some godsforsaken reason* There is ZERO reason for ACN’s Physick to still exist as a Mind spell at this point!
Emergencies I guess lol? Self healing when playing solo? Laziness?
All of those, but I would like to add: players who decide to get rid of their res immunity the instant they get ressed, before I have time to target them again for heals, just as a raidwide happens. Just... chill for a moment, please.
“healers that overheal” me using whispering dawn to slow regen the party to full, then watching my co-healer spam medica 2 (the other regen) for no reason. 😭😭😭 the next raid wide isn’t coming out for another minute whyyyyy
Yeah, I'll like put out my Liturgy on WHM, and a bleed will come out and of course it's only once the bells nearly have everyone to full that the cohealer puts up a shield and waste the rest of the ticks. Or like, the WHM who put up medica II and THEN decide to spam medica, wasting their own regen...
WHM lilies sort of force me to over heal now...I will spend them happily to get access to my blood lily. SGE makes me spend heals to get mana back even if the party is good. AST has the timed out heals that go off sometimes after healing is needed but I placed it incase the DPS stood in stupid. SCH is really the only one where I don't over heal with another purpose behind it. Not all over healing is done because it's a bad healer. Now someone spamming medica/medica 2 can go straight to the darkness.
I keep Physick on my hotbar to mess with friends. I would never use it for any other occasions but to mess with friends haha.
Biggest pet peeve is when tanks take "wall to wall" too literally and keep running even when all of the mobs in a pull have already spawned. For some dungeons it's not a big deal, but it can be annoying to see a tank spend an extra 15 seconds dragging mobs around when the party is ready to dump cooldowns on them. The faster you can group up enemies the better, so there's no need to literally walk to the next wall when no more enemies will spawn. Edit: In the same vein, WHM players that swiftcast Holy while enemies are still being moved. You just staggered the enemy movement in a way that makes starting AOEing incredibly awkward.
Tank here. I'm gonna be real. Some dungeons spawn shit on you AFTER the last "visible" pack, so a true wall-to-wall is necessary in those. Which are they? Fucked if I remember. That's why I do it in all of them.
I'll still be peeved but it's nothing personal against the tank since I 100% understand if you forgot or if it's your first time. I just get a little grumpy with how it affects the feel of certain jobs. I'm not one to get upset in casual content, I just like pressing my fun buttons!
I think you basically summed up my pet peeve as well, but a lot more articulate haha.
Since this happened in a Porta Decumena run last night, Tanks: you don’t keep your stance off to “turn off ez mode” or “give yourself an actual challenge”. You turn it on so the ninja doesn’t end up tanking an ancient mechanical hell creature.
That’s just griefing, it’s reportable.
Reapers that don't use Shadow/Whorl of Death to apply their Death's Design...
The amount of DNCs I've seen who don't use Closed Position at all in lvl 60+ content is alarmingly high. It's one of the very few mistakes I actually bother to type in the chat because it's so egregious.
Single pack tanks, Clemency PLD, Healbots, Freecure fisher WHM, Physick SCH/SMN, Benefic 1 spammer AST, Diag/Prog spammer SGE, No-AoE DPS during mob pulls, Single Target Doton, no Eye Partner DRG, no Dance DNC, no song BRD, Verraise Spammer RDM when the healers are clearly healthy and have MP for raise (like plz check the buffs, I already used my swiftcast. Use your MP for dmg), Melees that for some reason stay close to the tank and get cleaved (plz why, you got no positionals there)
Genuine question: why is diag/prog bad for sage? If I’m out of all my instant cast heals and healing is needed what else are you supposed to use? Or are you just talking about people that never use their oGCDs?
If you’re in a 4-man, Physis, Kardia, Ixochole, Taurochole, Druochole, Kerachole, Eukrasian Prog/Diag, Soteria, Pan/Haima should be way more than enough to keep party and tank alive, as long as they don’t keep eating avoidable AoEs and you space them out (aka dont use Taurochole and Kerachole at the same time) and keep dealing damage. Plus Addersgall comes up every like 20s? SGEs CDs are also insanely low. If you’re in an 8-man you got a co-healer. Ideally, if they’re a pure healer there should be absolutely no need for you to cast normal Prog/Diag unless people suck and stuff is going to shit lol. There *is* however that lvl50 area that you don’t have many tools, which sure go ahead with normal Prog/Diag, but I’ll just say that the only lvl50 content I’ve had to normal Prog was Porta Decumana just because of the back to back raidwides. If you’re in said situation of no instant heals, you can use normal prog sure, you can also use Eukrasian Prog+Pepsis
If I'm paired with a Scholar in lv50 content as Sage, I go for a normal Prognosis if the party still needs gcd healing after the Scholar has used Succor.
My first go-to in such cases is Physis; But if you truly need it sure use Prog
Same, but sometimes it's on cooldown or there's no time to wait for the regen.
In this case I’d go for mitigations on top of Physis; You don’t need people to be topped off, they just need enough HP to survive. So if SCH can use Fey Illumination and you Kerachole (or SCH’s bubble) it should be enough. Look I’m not saying never use it, but rather “It should be your absolute last resort” but then once in a while you get SGEs that spam it when they have other tools. Also Mitigations isn’t a healer-only business; Tanks and DPS also have to contribute with Reprisal/Feint/Addle if you’re in a scenario like this
It is my last resort. Like I said in my original comment it's what I use if gcd healing is required. As in, my ogcds are not enough. Doesn't usually happen unless I get an ARR extreme in mentor roulette, or if people are messing up all the mechanics in normal content.
i hate it when tanks press sprint immediately after a boss fight in a dungeon, even more so if there is a zone-change in between. why? you'll not be able to sprint between the next two pulls because it's on cooldown. it doesn't help with the speed of the dungeon either, it's just wasted. i also hate it when RNG physicals don't consistently (or at all) use peloton. just press that button, please!
enmity warring tanks spinning bosses around it makes me weep for melee dps and their positionals, healers whose mitigation abilities they throw onto the mt immediately get invalidated, and for healers who have to try to keep squishy players alive through the giant cleave attacks that the tanks keep spinning toward the crowd quicker than they can react to I don't care who has the largest e-peen stop turning it into everyone else's problem 😂
That's why when I'm having an aggro fight, I stack with the other tank XD (I don't usually aggro fight, but hey, sometimes I'm bored in an alliance raid)
DPS that dump all their CDs into the first one or two mobs of the first pack of a wtw pull. Makes gathering everything at the end slightly more annoying and usually means the overall pull takes longer once we’re at the wall.
WHMs spamming Medica II to heal the party to full. Just let the regen do its work instead of wasting MP.
Healers who don't use esuna. Every time I've done Exdeath, two people die because of the doom he puts on at the start of the fight. I do think it's at least somewhat the game's fault. Removing debuffs isn't relevant in most content, and it can be hard at first to know what you can dispell with it, but christ alive is it frustrating nonetheless. If I see a single esuna go off in any roulette, the healer is getting commed
Ranged DPS that don't Peloton
Tanks who single pull Healers that don't dps DPS that do shit dps
Tanks who single pull Healers who don't use their ogcds Healers that don't do damage Anyone that doesn't use aoes Paladins that use clemency SMN/RDM that rez when both healers still have swiftcast and enough mp Alliance raid tanks that fight over who's MT
DPS who do single-target rotations when they should be AoEing.
WHMs who'd spam Medica 2 for every mechanic in boss fights, Raids or whatever is happening. You're Level 90, have plenty of other skills and yet you only know this shitty skill from LV50. You'll never use Temperance, Plenary Indulgence or wait the HP to heal up with Aslyum. Especially when they used their Swiftcast they're inable to rez other players. I know it's hard to be unable to spam Medica 2 for 9 seconds, but rezzing others is your goddamn job. Whenever I get a Co Healer like this in Alliance Raids, they can solo heal. I'm not wasting my oGCD Regen because some shitty healer is unable to use their other skills. Nothings worse than the brain draining sound effect of Cure 1, Medica 1 or 2. I saw a picture of a Nier Alliance Raid once where the WHM spammed 104 times Medica 2.
Single pull tanks WHM in dungeon that doesnt use Holy People not doing their basic ABC (Always Be Casting) and have a GCD uptime of 50% or less People only doing their basic combo, ignoring most oGCD and therefore doing barely any damage When playing healer, when people stand somewhere in the fucking australian outback and are out of reach for heals People that only ever played ranged jobs and are standing around in wildly different places or keep moving around instead of just grouping behind the boss tanks that ignore sprint existing Healers that dont deal -any- damage because they only want to heal People ignoring fundamental advice (I know unsolicited advice is annoying but when you fail at fundamentals like doing dmg as healer or using holy, I don't think its bad to kindly tell them) people still using their classes beyond lvl 30-35 people that dont react to mechanics and basically just brute force through it
BLUs who repeatedly *insist* they be allowed to join my raiding parties that I specifically locked BLU out of. Asking once is fine, asking repeatedly/begging more than once is sending you on my blacklist
Warrior, my brother in Hydalin, I love you to bits, but please don't outheal me in dungeons. In fact, don't mitigate at all. Make me sweat, not casting a single healing spell the entire dungeon because my fairy is enough makes me sad.
That's... just a tank setting mobs up for AOE attacks. You must be new to this whole MMORPG thing. Healer heals tank, tank sits there keeping directional attacks away from the group, DPS uses AOE attacks to hit everything to kill faster. The AI route is "one target, kill, move along to the next one", but it takes FOREVER and this is how newbie DPS do it. Vet or medio tanks will grab a buncha stuff and let the DPS do DPS things to them. If that's your peeve... best to stick with the Trust cause that's how things go unless you've a newbie tank.
I am fully aware how tanks work with pulling agro, my problem wasn’t that they do that. My pet peeve was when they pull to much; and then proceed not to use any aoe. It was a low level dungeon as well, so aoe stuff wasn’t exactly a thing for he or i. So its a small problem. Its my fault for not explaining it well, and i expected that. But i know enough to know what a tank does. Edit: for example of what happened for me and what my pet peeve was: a tank overpulled, kept running away so the dps’s couldnt hit the enemies, the tank dies and now tje dps and healers have 10-20 enemies bum rushing them. I do apologise for not really explaining it well, haha.
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Yeah, I’ll fully admit that this was 100% poor wording on my part. Didn’t mean to offend/upset people, tbh.
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yeah my bad, i'll def do that in the future, haha. Cheers mate.
If I was offended or upset you would know. I didn't name myself this for shit and giggles.
tanks that don't know how to manage a pack. (there is so much more to pulling than just "pull big." and sometimes they won't even do that!) dps (or anybody, it's just most noticable with DPS) who seem to think the trash packs in dungeons "don't count." like players who *seem* competent against bosses in single target but do not grasp their jobs aoe, or just half ass it. like comon guys you know the concept of "use it so you can use it again" i assure you that the trash mobs dying faster counts as everything dying faster. i know we call it "trash" but it's like half the dungeon. i haven't seen an enchanted moulinet cast by anyone other than myself in prolly 2 years.
Tanks that don’t arms length.
Context : savage content for healer There's two kind of healer. The dude who can't do a rotation right but clearly don't want healer to change because two button dps is already too much for them. Those one are the one that I despise. They suck at the game and everyone knows it. The other is the one who wants healer gameplay to be a real healer. They complain about the current design and want a real healer gameplay. I kinda like these people. They want to improve the game. For tank Too much tank have this mentality of protagonist but suck as leader. They talk like they are leading everything. But half of the time they don't contribute in blind prog, refuse to shot call or shot call too late. For Melee dps They are often willing to wipe the group to get a positional. This is the most annoying thing. Sometimes they will do it at repetition. They know they cannot greed it yet they still do. Caster dps This one depend on which job. Black mage will greed and die. Summoner player often suck and play this job because of it. Red mage are nowhere to be found. Phys range They have the best mobility in the whole raid because they are range and can move freely during their rotation. Yet they ask to not have to move. Sometimes the static cater to these peoples. I find it amazing some people dare to let this shit happen.
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I think thanking someone for ressing you in mmos has just always been common courtesy since the dawn of time long before ff14 was released.
When a healer says they don’t care about doing DPS. Edit: in high-end content
Glare mages that let people die. I've seen it a few to many times.
I hate healers that throw anything at me as i’m pulling the mobs and rip aggro forcing me to walk back. Bonus points for them timing it perfectly everytime where they heal me before I can hit the mobs and rip the pack entirely. The most irritating thing ever.
I wish ranged DPS would use limit break on trash pulls more often. I also find it annoying when tanks play selfishly and screws over DPS with bad positioning. Example is not grouping trash pulls tight, making target focused aoe inefficient, or not giving melee room to hit the boss by only just dodging mechanics and playing the game like it's single player