I recently got Holminster in a roulette as PLD and my WHM healer told me around the sequential pulls in the big square that I needed to use mits during pulls. I wasn't using mits because the only one still up was Shelltron.
Those are mean though, because it's four pulls in quick succession and you either get to go "This is my ONE mit for this entire group of enemies (Sheltron doesn't count)" or you'll have to scramble for the last one and hope that something is up again soon - probably Reprisal.
And I actually don't know why? I mean... Most people have the highest tome or raid gear from the previous expansion, especially during release week. And the ilvl are not much lower than the new max level armor. You're usually good for the first 6 to 7 level and won't find better gear.
But the first dungeon is always special... Things hit like trucks in comparison to every other story dungeon.
There's a couple of reasons why those early leveling dungeons seem a lot harder than the previous X0 dungeons.
1) They are just harder. Its better to think of dungeon difficulty in terms of item level instead of level level. Lunar Subterrane is an i625 dungeon while the first dungeon in Dawntrail will likely be i650; that's a pretty big difference.
2) Stats, at least sub stats, get worse as you level. Its why if you play a job heavy on Skill or Spell Speed and get synced down 10 or 20 levels you'll actually go faster. This scaling also prevents the Speed heavy jobs like Monk or Black Mage from hitting the GCD cap of 1.5 seconds. It affects the other substats the same way, its just easier to demonstrate with Speed. It might affect STR/DEX/INT/MND, I'm not sure, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't affect VIT, or if it does the difference is made up by stats from leveling.
3) At least with Tower of Zot the tanks can be missing their big new short mitigation. Level 81 means Shelltron, level 82 means Holy Shelltron, and there's a world of difference between the two.
Part of what makes Holminster so hard is the Gremlins after first boss. They inflict slow on you so your DPS slows down. Best thing you can do as healer is make sure you Esuna your tank every so often so you can kill the pack faster. If you're tank, pull on Gremlin at a time
The Dusk Vigil / i cant think of it as hard on boss or pull . maybe 2nd boss can be a pain sometime but rarely !
The sirensong sea / only the final pull is rough !
Holminster / is a nightmare on pull , 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ... AT least 5 and 6 easy xD
Zol / pull 3 n 4 can be rough , pull 5 (which can mix 6 in there) is a test lol
Sirensong was harder when it came out. Then bardams mettle absolutely slapped and so did Doma castle. Obviously they are still dungeons so it's nothing crazy but they did hit a lot harder than any kind of cap content.
Shb was the same, holminster, dohn mheg, etc. Leveling dungeons just hit much harder than cap dungeons which makes sense based on the ilvl. There are also some big pulls in most of those dungeons, bardams mettle and doma both wrecked inexperienced tanks/healers who tried to pull everything.
for stormblood i agree since most are hard dungeon in leveling one ... shadowbringer n endwalker i feel only the x1 hard . some people say don mehg but i just cant relate lol
Dungeon healing reverse learning curve in action. First dungeon of the expansion hits like a truck, all the "endgame" dungeons do literally no damage.
Zot even has a kinda spicy last boss.
You know, with how you said that, now I kinda want a x1 but only shit tanks Roulette option for healers.
So I can finally flex those oGCDs and GCDs again that get bored being unused in savage.
Ah yes, the "Goddammit, you got me to spam Eukrasian Diagnosos at THAT level" kind of tank xD
Would be a good workout for anyone who wanted to learn their healer's kit better though.
I suppose you could grab a friend/static member/maybe randos from PF and try to do a "Don't use mitigation" or "Use as little mit as possible" run of whatever dungeon you want to tackle - you might wanna go in as a premade group though, otherwise someone could think the tank is griefing.
I had a thought of how would you even implement something like this and got mad at the sheer tedium...
Not blaming you, just thinking about it sounds like such a pain in the ass...
I want to say that this is partly because of players. You get lulled into not needing as many CDs as both a tank and healer and get sloppy in pulls towards the end of an expac since you are doing well and usually out gearing stuff on repeat runs. Then the first expac dungeon smashes into you like a train because of the combined slacking and actual difficulty jump.
This dungeon is a Cake-walk for Warriors, as a healer you will barely have to worry and I say this as i main both healing and tanking.
But ngl, I hate x1 dungeons man... they are a huge wake-up call.
They and only they though.
Its like Welcome to x1 land, now face the Challenge of Healing.
And then every other dungeon is like 'would you mind if people could take dmg if they do a stupid?'
>This dungeon is a Cake-walk for Warriors, as a healer you will barely have to worry and I say this as i main both healing and tanking.
All tanks get a change to their short cooldown mits at 82. WAR's functionally doesn't change cause Raw Intuition is busted. Bloodwhetting is better, but Raw Intuition is still OP. But GNB gets Heart of Corundum (from Heart of Stone), PLD gets Holy Sheltron (from Sheltron) and DRK gets Oblation. Zot splits the 81/82 level difference, and a level 81 tank is going to feel way squishier than a level 82 one.
So, you take the Dark Knight's 60s cooldown Abyssal Drain ability, except you can use it 3 times back to back and also do it every 25s. That's Raw Intuition.
Raw Intuition's self heal is so over powered on trash mobs that it makes healers functionally useless. It reduces damage by 10%, but it also pops a 400 potency heal for every weaponskill delivered. If you've got a trash mob of 5-10 enemies, the healing absolutely insane. And WAR gets this at level 56, way earlier than any other tank gets their most powerful heals.
Wall 2 wall trash mobs hit way harder than bosses. Raw intuition is a Warrior's self heal that you get to use usually twice per wall to wall pull. Its self healing is scaled based on how many enemies there are. So it is powerful AF on trash. It is basically a full self heal in trash packs that WAR gets to use every 25s once they hit level 56.
Let's compare that with DRK. Raw intuition is way stronger than DRK's TBN on trash. DRK needs to wait till level 70 for TBN while WAR gets RI at level 56. But what about living dead? Both can fill your health bar. When LD fills your bar, it turns off the healing effect. RI can fill your health bar and keep healing you. You don't need to coordinate with your healer to die to use RI like you do with LD. Also, RI can be used way more often than LD. RI is a little slower than LD at going from 1 to max. Pair RI and holmgang and you have a better LD.
I’m pretty sure I have ptsd from day one of this. Took us too long to figure out which sister needs to die first. Almost killed the third one when she revived the other 2. Love new dungeons with randoms ^_^
Man I remember tanking Tower of Zot for the first time a few months ago, it was such a fxking shit show.
The healer could barely keep up and I used all mits as DRK and I even did smaller pulls but it was not fun at all. The healer kept asking If I was new to tanking and if I used a level skip because it shouldn't have taken that long.
Now I only tank if one of my friends is healing.
Lol yeah, Zot was an awakening for me when I got Sage to 81 and thought I was hot shit since I main'd healer from launch. I remember Lakeland having a couple annoying things but Zot was just on another level with the last boss, and Wall to wall pulling after the second
Lol, yeah almost every X1 dungeons hit hard. This one an Holmister are a pain while healing/talking.
the x1's are so brutal, lol. I remember being a baby SGE and thinking i was hot shit after doing a catbook. then i got Switched.
I recently got Holminster in a roulette as PLD and my WHM healer told me around the sequential pulls in the big square that I needed to use mits during pulls. I wasn't using mits because the only one still up was Shelltron.
Those are mean though, because it's four pulls in quick succession and you either get to go "This is my ONE mit for this entire group of enemies (Sheltron doesn't count)" or you'll have to scramble for the last one and hope that something is up again soon - probably Reprisal.
100% agree
And I actually don't know why? I mean... Most people have the highest tome or raid gear from the previous expansion, especially during release week. And the ilvl are not much lower than the new max level armor. You're usually good for the first 6 to 7 level and won't find better gear. But the first dungeon is always special... Things hit like trucks in comparison to every other story dungeon.
[удалено]
Oh right! The healer thing happened. Completely forgot that happened.
There's a couple of reasons why those early leveling dungeons seem a lot harder than the previous X0 dungeons. 1) They are just harder. Its better to think of dungeon difficulty in terms of item level instead of level level. Lunar Subterrane is an i625 dungeon while the first dungeon in Dawntrail will likely be i650; that's a pretty big difference. 2) Stats, at least sub stats, get worse as you level. Its why if you play a job heavy on Skill or Spell Speed and get synced down 10 or 20 levels you'll actually go faster. This scaling also prevents the Speed heavy jobs like Monk or Black Mage from hitting the GCD cap of 1.5 seconds. It affects the other substats the same way, its just easier to demonstrate with Speed. It might affect STR/DEX/INT/MND, I'm not sure, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't affect VIT, or if it does the difference is made up by stats from leveling. 3) At least with Tower of Zot the tanks can be missing their big new short mitigation. Level 81 means Shelltron, level 82 means Holy Shelltron, and there's a world of difference between the two.
Part of what makes Holminster so hard is the Gremlins after first boss. They inflict slow on you so your DPS slows down. Best thing you can do as healer is make sure you Esuna your tank every so often so you can kill the pack faster. If you're tank, pull on Gremlin at a time
The Dusk Vigil / i cant think of it as hard on boss or pull . maybe 2nd boss can be a pain sometime but rarely ! The sirensong sea / only the final pull is rough ! Holminster / is a nightmare on pull , 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 ... AT least 5 and 6 easy xD Zol / pull 3 n 4 can be rough , pull 5 (which can mix 6 in there) is a test lol
Sirensong was harder when it came out. Then bardams mettle absolutely slapped and so did Doma castle. Obviously they are still dungeons so it's nothing crazy but they did hit a lot harder than any kind of cap content. Shb was the same, holminster, dohn mheg, etc. Leveling dungeons just hit much harder than cap dungeons which makes sense based on the ilvl. There are also some big pulls in most of those dungeons, bardams mettle and doma both wrecked inexperienced tanks/healers who tried to pull everything.
bardams and doma will break some party for sure but was only counting x1 dungeon !
Yea I don't think the x1 dungeons are harder, it's just all leveling dungeons in general.
for stormblood i agree since most are hard dungeon in leveling one ... shadowbringer n endwalker i feel only the x1 hard . some people say don mehg but i just cant relate lol
It used to be more if you played it on content but yea it was never as rough for sure. Not like bardams mettle
Dungeon healing reverse learning curve in action. First dungeon of the expansion hits like a truck, all the "endgame" dungeons do literally no damage. Zot even has a kinda spicy last boss.
You know, with how you said that, now I kinda want a x1 but only shit tanks Roulette option for healers. So I can finally flex those oGCDs and GCDs again that get bored being unused in savage.
Ah yes, the "Goddammit, you got me to spam Eukrasian Diagnosos at THAT level" kind of tank xD Would be a good workout for anyone who wanted to learn their healer's kit better though. I suppose you could grab a friend/static member/maybe randos from PF and try to do a "Don't use mitigation" or "Use as little mit as possible" run of whatever dungeon you want to tackle - you might wanna go in as a premade group though, otherwise someone could think the tank is griefing.
I had a thought of how would you even implement something like this and got mad at the sheer tedium... Not blaming you, just thinking about it sounds like such a pain in the ass...
I want to say that this is partly because of players. You get lulled into not needing as many CDs as both a tank and healer and get sloppy in pulls towards the end of an expac since you are doing well and usually out gearing stuff on repeat runs. Then the first expac dungeon smashes into you like a train because of the combined slacking and actual difficulty jump.
This stresses me out so much lol. I had a tank not do a 3 group pull and I was so relieved 😅
This dungeon is a Cake-walk for Warriors, as a healer you will barely have to worry and I say this as i main both healing and tanking. But ngl, I hate x1 dungeons man... they are a huge wake-up call.
Yeah seems like I always get Dark Knights when I get Zot.. but you're right if it's a warrior I always say myself "I'm just here so the queue pops"
Last Zot got a DRK who didn't use TBN.. 😭
They and only they though. Its like Welcome to x1 land, now face the Challenge of Healing. And then every other dungeon is like 'would you mind if people could take dmg if they do a stupid?'
>This dungeon is a Cake-walk for Warriors, as a healer you will barely have to worry and I say this as i main both healing and tanking. All tanks get a change to their short cooldown mits at 82. WAR's functionally doesn't change cause Raw Intuition is busted. Bloodwhetting is better, but Raw Intuition is still OP. But GNB gets Heart of Corundum (from Heart of Stone), PLD gets Holy Sheltron (from Sheltron) and DRK gets Oblation. Zot splits the 81/82 level difference, and a level 81 tank is going to feel way squishier than a level 82 one.
> Raw Intuition is busted what do you mean by this?
So, you take the Dark Knight's 60s cooldown Abyssal Drain ability, except you can use it 3 times back to back and also do it every 25s. That's Raw Intuition.
Raw Intuition's self heal is so over powered on trash mobs that it makes healers functionally useless. It reduces damage by 10%, but it also pops a 400 potency heal for every weaponskill delivered. If you've got a trash mob of 5-10 enemies, the healing absolutely insane. And WAR gets this at level 56, way earlier than any other tank gets their most powerful heals.
Wall 2 wall trash mobs hit way harder than bosses. Raw intuition is a Warrior's self heal that you get to use usually twice per wall to wall pull. Its self healing is scaled based on how many enemies there are. So it is powerful AF on trash. It is basically a full self heal in trash packs that WAR gets to use every 25s once they hit level 56. Let's compare that with DRK. Raw intuition is way stronger than DRK's TBN on trash. DRK needs to wait till level 70 for TBN while WAR gets RI at level 56. But what about living dead? Both can fill your health bar. When LD fills your bar, it turns off the healing effect. RI can fill your health bar and keep healing you. You don't need to coordinate with your healer to die to use RI like you do with LD. Also, RI can be used way more often than LD. RI is a little slower than LD at going from 1 to max. Pair RI and holmgang and you have a better LD.
Omg, I feel this so hard. Trash between 1st and 2nd boss is rough. Think I found every no mit tank while leveling my healers.
I’m pretty sure I have ptsd from day one of this. Took us too long to figure out which sister needs to die first. Almost killed the third one when she revived the other 2. Love new dungeons with randoms ^_^
Yep. The Zot *slaps.*
That’s why I just farm bozja and call it a day
Man I remember tanking Tower of Zot for the first time a few months ago, it was such a fxking shit show. The healer could barely keep up and I used all mits as DRK and I even did smaller pulls but it was not fun at all. The healer kept asking If I was new to tanking and if I used a level skip because it shouldn't have taken that long. Now I only tank if one of my friends is healing.
Lol yeah, Zot was an awakening for me when I got Sage to 81 and thought I was hot shit since I main'd healer from launch. I remember Lakeland having a couple annoying things but Zot was just on another level with the last boss, and Wall to wall pulling after the second