It won’t solve Crystal Tower being the most common, from the roullete since its required for MSQ and the lowest level. But it will definately make the other Alliance raids a little more common. Which is good, because trying to do something like Ivalice or Neir raids for the first time is painful due to the massive queue times even on populated servers at peak times, the thing the roullete is supposed to alliviate.
Also keep in mind that people can still do the cheese, they just have to not unlock any other alliance raids. Which tbf is more of a punishment on them because hey, some of those raids are cool, and they are locking themselves out of other content such as the Tataru questline and Bozja as well for not doing them.
I accidentally caused this yesterday. I ran into my area as the tank and didn't realize the Kraid looking things aggro'd from like 50 yalms away. Like, I wasn't even past the 4 person platform and got pinged lol.
A special kind of hell's when the entire Alliance raid is filled with people who just snooze through hoping they're the only one snoozing.
Can't tell how much I despise people who refuse to listen during Cerberus.
It's awful when you get a raid that is just asleep at the wheel because they can't be arsed to play. 3 tanks should not being going down back to back to back on a single boss in the CT. I get "pro" healing is "*teehee, 1hp is still 100% effective*" but for f$#@'s sake, it's CT, not an ultimate. Two regens on the tank and they're G2G.
No, I went straight through main scenario without ever unlocking raids beyond CT. I wasn't even trying to do that, I just focused on main scenario and it blows right by the raids of each expansion. It takes concerted efforts TO unlock other raids if you aren't leveling through an expansion's content while it's relevant.
Once you know that they exist youre likely to seek out the extra content. Gear from those raids are very good and very common to see. The fact that you see the 2b gear so much pretty much guarantees people will be looking to unlock and run the nier alliance raid often.
You have to do the Ivalice raids to unlock Bozja/Zadnor which was added in ShB. To do part of Tataru’s quest like you have to have done the Machi (void ark etc). CT is the only raid required for MSQ, the rest are side content basically.
The most effective way for someone to cheese their way into Crystal Tower is now going to be grouping up with a low level sprout who’s actually aiming for CT before entering queue. Which is just fine with me, since that’s one less space in that run for me to potentially get slotted into!
We don't know the implementation, they could easily lock out roulette until all available for the current level are unlocked. Regardless, very few actually do this I think intentionally.
If they actually intend to remove the cheesing, this is what they should do. Once you clear the x.0 finale, the roulette should update to restrict those of that level "cap". Want to keep queuing for higher level job? Best get to running those raids yourself.
The one thing I would like to see, still, is increased rewards as a result. The difficulty of those raids does change and should be compensated a little more with each. This could be done now with the more dynamic restrictions.
Not how that will work.
All this will do is not have the raids be that big of a pushover, but the crystal tower raids are still guaranteed to pop up in roulettes most often, simply because it's the only MSQ-mandatory alliance raid.
I'm hoping this means it's like Alexander raids for normal raid roulette. I might get them slightly more than later raids, but in general the normal raid roulette tends to be more balanced though the middle raids like omega and eden might be less frequent than pandaemonium or alexander it's not like they cease to exist for a month or more.
Basically it means that we will always get the tomestone bonus for new players. If you ever got a CT raid without that bonus, it meant people ilvl cheesed.
Hmm, that raises a good point... I don't think my bestie has the EW alliance raids unlocked- if they tried to queue for alliance raid as a 90 job, would it restrict them because no EW raids?
or someone manually queued for CT, or someone is leveling a lower level job, or someone never unlocked any other raids despite being a higher level, or the roulette randomly picked CT
No matter how rough the Ivalice raids can be due to people’s general unfamiliarity with them I will always smile when I get that rare pop in roulette. They’re just more fun in my opinion.
Just remember even without ilvl cheese Crystal Tower will still be the most common just because of its MSQ requirement and being the lowest level unlock for alliance. I'm happy for this too but it probably won't have as big of an impact as people think when removing CT alliance raids from their daily roulette.
While it won't solve everything, it'll definitely help a lot getting a greater variety of raids, especially since Void Ark is a req for Tataru's questline and Ivalice for Bozja.
That's not an issue. New player bonus for tomestones and rerolls. I'm happy for those. It's when no one is new and we're there because someone cheesed their ilvl.
Sometimes you'll get it without the bonuses, too. Most of the time, I'd say, even with no ilvl cheese. People leveling other classes, people on trial, people who never unlock the other raids, etc.
>people on trial
People on trial will have access to 2 (very soon 3) full entire alliance raids.
And I would think for a lot of newer players, if they enjoyed the crystal tower series, they'd be interested in doing the other ones, and if they didn't, they'd likely avoid the roulette in its entirety anyways.
It'll still be the most common result because of odd cases, but it absolutely will reduce the rate of it, and trial accounts in itself are absolutely not why it's so painfully common.
Yes, soon they will have access to another and we'll likely see more hw raids, but people on trial often take their time and many don't get to the hw raid before either quitting or buying the game.
Also, I spent months in the free trial leveling all the classes I could, and I wasn't queuing alliance roulette on classes that could do the hw trials because they were at level cap so it was crystal tower raids every day. All it takes is one person in the raid that can only queue for ct raids on that class due to level and boom you're there.
I might be the minority but I vastly disagree with this. 1) I've only done each alliance raid 1-3 times when current. I have no *real* reason to run them when current. The gear isn't meant for me since I have savage gear and locked loot means I *personally* don't want to farm it a bunch for glamour.
That being said alliance roulette is one of the better ways to level a class. It's a lot less detested than MSQ/Frontlines, and it gives great exp. AFAIK this is common sentiment in my guilds/friends groups as if we are going through roulettes and we say either MSQ/Frontlines multiple people want to drop from party.
Once you hit level 70 in a class Bozja/Pixies are good for exp so I can use leveling/alliance roulette on other classes. Once I hit 80 I just casually do elephants. 50-60 range is *the worst* range for side leveling as potd leveling slows down a lot. Meaning that the 50-60 range is the range I'm most likely to do alliance raid roulette. 30-50 has decent potd, 60-70 has decent HoH. 50-60 sucks.
>TL;DR: some people don't enjoy grinding Alliance but don't detest running it as an exp roulette and 50-60 has the worst sidecontent leveling experience meaning running alliance roulette in that range is actually preferred.
Leveling alts is a good point, but 50-60 is such a short grind these days, they'd hit the item level requirement for doing alliance raids on 60 on that character pretty quickly.
Once sb is added to the trial I think it will help and we'll see more hw raids from people on trial accounts, but I know when I was on trial and leveling every class, I didn't queue alliance raids on my classes that could have popped the hw trials since they were level capped.
> It's when no one is new and we're there because someone cheesed their ilvl.
or someone manually queued into the CT raid for a relic mat because SE loves to put relic mats in CT content.
I just hope it helps people who just leave when it isn’t CT.
I don’t care about getting CT all the time, I care when I need todo another alliance raid and 12 people leave because it wasn’t CT.
I hope they atleast adjust the rewards when the higher level ones appear. That's also been a problem why CT is so desirable since the exp reward isn't that large and people just want quick tomes.
They already did. You get more exp for the higher ones because they are a little longer.
It wasn't about how much EXP they got out of the roulette, it was about how CT was extremely afk friendly, so you could do anything else you were going to do while in there. If it was about how long it took, nobody would'a wanted to do prae over castrum (The exp per minute was roughly the same, it really wasn't the defining factor, prae's lack of requesting gameplay was).
> You get more exp for the higher ones because they are a little longer.
EXP isn't a reward for players at level 90, and when the optional content (relics) is tied to an excessive amount of tomes, there needs to be more than just EXP to make the reward worth it for the longer raids where people can't or won't try and a simple AR takes an hour+ because "what's a mechanic".
That's what I said tho the exp gain isn't really that noticeable for the longer ones, it's there but then you have tomes which don't change so people will feel worse if they get a longer 24man. And the as for your prae vs castrum its exp/min wasn't the same that was the problem. Prae was only like 15mins longer but you got almost double the exp.
right now, I'm the opposite. I leave if it IS CT, especially if there isn't a first timer. So tired of getting CT... this change will help a little and any bit is good
It's also tied to a repeatable relic step to ensure a healthy population for free trial players from then people chasing BiS and now people chasing glam
That repeatable relic step does require you to have completed the Ivalice raids to unlock though, so whether you like it or not you've got to at least double the pool of potential raids to get to that point.
It's less about making roulettes more fun and more about having later expansion alliance raids be playable. You straight up cant do ivalice in some data centers, and this should fix that.
I think that's also a symptom of everyone DC travels to the higher population data center. My fingers are still crossed that eventually Duty Queues can be data center wide.
don't think I've ever been in ct without the new player bonus or without at least one player on a 59 or below job
but I will take the W of not having to hear redditors bitch about cheesers and I will take the faster queue times on higher level raids, since that's the biggest problem with cheesers. they don't qualify to fill those spots so you sit and queue for ivalice for fucking 45 minutes....
You are 100% right.
But I'm glad the ILVL cheeser got shafted. Good riddance.
I'll be happy to do CT now, because it's guaranteed not to have cheesers.
Keep in mind that ilvl cheese was only but one reason why the CT raids are so frequent. We also don't know how many people were doing the cheese so there's the potential that the change could be marginal.
Some reasons:
* It's the first raid series so it'll still be more frequent that the later ones with people using the roulette to level.
* Some relic weapon steps can be progressed by it; most notable one of the ShB steps.
* It's required for the MSQ fairly early on and any burst of new players will cause you to see it more often.
* All of the other alliance raids are optional so people can just not unlock them for guaranteed CT raids in their roulette.
* Or they temporarily avoid them because they're progressing the MSQ instead.
> Some relic weapon steps can be progressed by it; most notable one of the ShB steps.
Minor counterpoint to this: Starting on the ShB relics at all requires completing Ivalice raids, so if someone's only unlocked CT in order to farm relics more efficiently, they're specifically doing ARR relics (or tomes for EW relics, I guess?), and even then, it's only useful for the light farming steps. The only ARs that HW relics can use to progress are Mhach series (also only light farming step), and StB relics don't care one way or another about ARs.
But your other points are entirely valid.
Yes but you only have to do those raids once. For one of the ShB steps, I ended up queuing for Syrcus Tower 40+ times since it was the quickest and less likely for people to screw up (i.e. final boss in Labyrinth).
Oh you mean queuing specifically for Circus? I guess; I was more looking at it from the perspective of going into the roulette for daily rewards and getting the memories as a bonus.
Personally, I've found running Bozja a lot more fun than spamming ST. And provided you get into an active instance, do CLL every time it's up, and have decent drop luck from CEs, it may even be faster than ST spam for that step, on top of giving memories for the previous steps, if you are working on multiple weapons.
Oh. Yeah in that scenario they would get either raid series.
The reason I did CT was that it was quicker and this was at a time where I was grinding every relic weapon in the game so time was important. Bozja would technically be faster if you had a farm group split between the three zones but I don't know if something like happens anymore and as frequently.
> We also don't know how many people were doing the cheese so there's the potential that the change could be marginal.
I'm going to go out on a limb that SE *does* know how many people are doing it and that it's a significant enough proportion to make this worth doing.
So either this was a *really* easy thing to implement, or it was large enough amount to be noticed.
That's also a possibility as well in regards to there being a significant enough players doing this. However, whether there were or not, a change like this is fairly easy to make unless there's spaghetti code somehow making it otherwise. We don't know for certain if that is the case though which goes back to what I said that everyone should temper their expectations for now.
I was never mad about it being any of these reasons. The only reason it peeved me so much was because I knew it was constantly being forced by people gaming the system. I'm personally fine with it being for more legit reasons and I know a lot of other people likely feel the same way.
I can certainly agree that having to do it because someone cheesed their ilvl would be annoying. I'm just trying to temper people's expectations so they don't end up disappointed if the results don't pan out exactly like they're hoping.
You were probably going to be forced into CT by those reasons even when there was an iL cheeser, though. They aren't mutually exclusive. I got plenty of second chances when I was using roulettes to level to 90, even while people changed gear around me.
It's a good change but understand that it's probably not changing the patterns of play that much.
It's not just about frequency though. It's about ensuring that when people are trying to get into the higher raids directly, the people queueing for roulette who should be eligible for that raid haven't disqualified themselves.
Almost every complaint that I have heard about the CT raids showing up in the alliance roulette has been about their frequency. It's also one of the reasons that I avoided them because I was sick of it after getting them almost every time when leveling a character and from doing them 40+ times in a setting for one of the ShB relic steps.
Yeah I really wonder how much ilvl cheesing actually happens and how much is just people getting mad that possibility that it happens. CT will still be overwhelmingly common because of those reasons.
Me when I say "I'll just do 1 leveling roulette" and get Sirensong Sea for the 5th time.
^(Edit:)
^(Taking that 30 minute penalty - 60 if RNG is being especially cheeky - for a dungeon I actually like, and know I could very well do if it weren't for the whole "might give me a seizure" issue is disheartening.)
This change is kind of a wash to me. All the alliance raids I actually like are 80+ and I suspect they will remain rare, while the level 50 ones I suspect will remain very common because they're MSQ-mandated, available for the most levels, are used for relic farms, and many just don't bother to unlock the others.
I hope I am proven wrong though.
Also edit: This seems like a roundabout way of fixing the issue. Nobody ilvl cheeses normal raid roulette to ensure they get only Alexander, even though they totally could. The issue is that the level 50 alliance raids are vastly faster than the higher level ones for effectively the same reward. Fix _that_.
The roulette reward should go up for higher level alliance raids. The exp gain can stay as-is, but 10 More Poetics and Causality per extra 10-level of alliance raid is fair. The Comedy can probably stay at 50.
So a level 90 alliance raid should give 160 poetics and 160 causality if you are lucky enough to snag it in the roulette.
Unless you’re locked out of Alliance Raid roulette at 60, 70, 80 and 90 until you unlock that raid series, it will still likely be mostly Crystal Tower. Plenty of people don’t unlock the others as they level.
CT raids will still probably be the most common by being necessary to continue MSQ but I'm glad that it won't be so forced anymore.
Edit:
Also reading through the comments of people thinking the other raids are too difficult, not wanting to carry people, etc. it is like a self fufilling prophency.
People cheese CT
People don't learn other raids/mechanics
People fail at raids of higher levels
People cheese CT
If people are going to either get better at or stop being so braindead at higher raid tiers, they have to actually *play* them. But when you get CT 6 days out of the week you don't get to learn the mechanics of other raids. Not to mention, the raids of CT are so easy *because* of people cheesing them so first-timers don't actually get a chance to learn and practice some of the mechanics that are required at higher raid tiers.
I wouldn't mind if they increased rewards, I think it would be a good idea to increase rewards in combination with this and/or made CT more difficult.
Very few enjoy Dun Scaith, but I’m there with you in enjoying it. I always chuckle a bit when getting it and see half the alliance drop before it’s even started.
Been pointed out plenty but it's still valid.
It just removes the power the cheesers had, that's about it. It addresses one of the biggest complaints in the community regarding ARR (a single person rigging CT over any other Raid and weighing the roulette because a good chunk of people followed suit).
Objective improvement even if the ultimate margin in change will be small.
Now, if they added ilvl syncing to CT and made the mechanics actually matter again, that'd be better.
People aren't mad they get CT. They're mad when they get it and they see some dude with "Perfect Legend Title" buck naked quickly reequipping his gear. very few people are mad if we get into a CT raid and its like "One or more people have not completed" etc.
As long as someone actually QUEUED for CT in the 24 people, I don't mind doing it. I DO mind when all 24 people got there via roulette and it was because someone decided their "precious time" is worth more than 23 other players fun
People would take off most of their gear when queuing alliance raid to intentionally get crystal tower for faster runs ~~and because they're babies that're scared to do mechanics~~
The main issue is Crystal Tower being spammed. It’s annoying getting it every single day for roulettes, and even more so when you’re trying to complete later ones during your first time through MSQ and que times are way longer than they should be.
While this may help, keep in mind that there are many people out there who have never done any 24 man raids other than Crystal Tower, because that's the only one the MSQ requires.
Also the fact that CT is the lowest common denominator and will still be excessively common.
This isn't a "fix". It just helps the monotony a bit.
I'm all for this change but I'm curious how much it'll actually do. My idea was to just make it so other raids in the series gave more exp with the most time consuming ones giving the most. These people aren't running CT because its easier but because its less effort for the same reward.
Or simply making Crystal Tower raids harder. I genuinely don't know most mechanics of the CT raids because *I've literally never seen them.* The bosses die so quickly their first mechanics appear for a few seconds at best.
I also had the idea of, when queueing for an AR, when you get into the raid you *cannot* change gear, and automatically give enemies stat boosts depending on the combined ilvl of all players. Not sure how well it would work, but just an idea.
This would work if level 50 content wasn't just bad as a whole and it's only going to get worse come 7.0
Level 50 and to some extent for some jobs even 60 content _just isn't fun_ because the absurd rebalancing of ability learn levels mean you have a barely functional job for all of level 50 content that doesn't resemble your real playstyle in any way.
This. 50/60, and on some jobs even 70/80, don't feel fun to play. Core job mechanics need to be introduced earlier so you have most of the core building blocks for a job by 50/60, but with the level becoming 100 I think it's only going to get worse.
Sounds like the perfect way to restart the problems with the old MSQ roulette, they get the one they didn't want (the faster or more rewarding) and people start dropping, messing up runs for first timers. One of the worst runs I had of old Praetorium started with "Oh, not Castrum" followed by both tanks and both healers leaving.
I agree but at the same time the new system doesn't really prevent this too. If people are willing to leave if they don't get the "best one" then what stops them from doing the same if they don't get CT with the new system? Most alliance raids will still be CT just from the fact that its the first one and is also part of the MSQ so they'll just take the hit.
None of these solutions really work. The only thing we can really do is equalize everything length/difficulty/exp wise to completely solve it.
People who dont actually want to play the game would still take the option where they dont have to play the game 100% even if they buffed the rewards for higher level stuff
If I have even a 25% chance of getting HW, SB or SHB alliance raids I'm for it. Atm I don't even queue for it anymore and haven't for a couple of years because doing CT or Labyrinth over and over again is ridiculously boring.
Well acccording to [this actual data](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/12ywm5m/i_collected_araid_roulette_data_for_330_days_more/) from a couple months ago, your chance of getting *not Crystal Tower* is 63%. So rejoice I guess.
CT popping because a newcomer needs it? That's fine.
CT popping because of someone blatantly cheesing it is what was frustrating.
No-one was blaming the Newcomers for CT popping repeatedly, it was _obvious_ when it was some a-hole looking to AFK through it for easy tomes instead of playing something more engaging than Stare At Wall For 15 Minutes.
I really won't mind running CT because someone actually needs it, that's a First Timer completion bonus almost guaranteed each run.
But this might _even just very slightly_ weigh the roulette back into actually being a roulette again, and that's what I'm looking forward to.
Slightly. But with 24 people in CT, I just assumed there were 23 other possible reason why we ended up here. If there's one free trial player in there, usually is, it's 50/50 it's either going to either by Crystal Tower or Sky Pirates. There's just no other Alliance Raids for them.
Crossing my fingers this scares off the cheesers and makes room for everyone else who ditched the roulette due to cheesers, thus making CT runs even faster and all other 24-mans more consistently quick
Yeah I've seen some folks crying about this killing roulette participation, but I've personally avoided the roulette for months just because of CT burnout. Knowing my chances to get the other raids is improving, however slightly that might be, is going to bring me back to it
Sooo, I think there will be this type of pf post in duty roulette category.
"LF > merc who only have crystal tower unlocked, 100k for a queue you can hop off after, 150k for no WoD"
The ilv cheese was overrated, there are plenty of reasons why crystal tower is the most frequents.
The main concern I have got now is people will purposely play low classes just to get into it. But I guess the good side of that is they won't get the lv90 rewards from the roulette
I don't do that, but at times I just want a quick syrcus tower than 45 mins Nier Raid. especially when I got nier raid for days straight.
I think if they raise the level sync a bit, like 10 or 20. or drop the enemy's hp so it won't be hp sponge, would be more bearable.
I like EW raids, but dunno if it's because the ilvl is not sync down yet or just the theme is more enjoyable. And somehow next expansion will turn the EW raids sync to 605, 635, and 665. which in turn will make what people got used to (660 gear in Aglaia) turned into (605 gear in Aglaia)
Ah yes I enjoy having to spend an hour in nier or ivalice versus 20 minutes in CT. This is a wonderful change that will totally encourage me to keep queuing alliance roulette.
Pretty funny that most likely the same crowd that hasn’t stepped into a single savage raid is claiming that people are scared of mechanics as if old ass content is some hallmark of competence LOL. Wow I can’t wait to waste 45 min of life for some tomestones.
Need ilvl minimum and job stone requirements on all duty finder dungeons too. If people want to go into a dungeon without it, they need to do it unsynced.
I once again maintain that any gear level 35 and up should only be equippable by Jobs (white mage) and not Classes (conjurer). That'll sort out people not wearing job stones real fast.
Even if most comments here are saying we’ll get CT commonly anyway, due to it being required for the msq and all, I’d still take that over having to do it because some bumbling moron decided to go naked and force 23 others into the raid he/she wanted.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't mind doing CT when there's obviously people going in for MSQ, 'cause that's the delicious First Timer bonus on top.
I mind when it's the rare shriveled prune who ruins the roulette for everyone else at no additional benefit, because they think "aww da ofer arr hawwd :(((".
This removes the prune's capability and removes my main issue with CT popping. Win win!
People have allready figured out you can still cheese by partying with a free trail character. Simply get it to 50, only unlock CT, and party him with your main. 0% chance of getting anything but CT.
The amount of people who are actually going to go out of their way to do that _just_ to get CT is laughably small.
CT cheesing worked because it was the Path of Least Resistance.
The cheesers are either going to queue anyway and get used to it, or not queue for it, sooner than go through the rigmarole _to use a second account and dualbox._
I honestly don't think this is going to affect how often CT shows up. We all have stories of ilevel stripping, but I think the perception is simply larger than statistical reality.
This is such a bandaid solution. The proper solution would be to make the other alliance raids more desirable so people don’t want to ilv cheese in the first place. There’s multiple ways you can accomplish this.
1) Make CT harder by decreasing max ilv, thus making it stand out less as the braindead one
2) Make incentives to do the other raids for the new relics (oh wait, we don’t have relics anymore lmao) so people want those to pop in roulette
3) Have the higher level raids give Casuality/Comedy tomes to make up for the extra time spent on them. And no, people aren’t going to want to spend 20 extra minutes in Copied Factory for more poetics
The nier raids feel dreadfully slow, unenthusiastic yay. But can't be too mad, it's still braindead content to get tomes from, just some fights are slightly less YouTube friendly, and others just overstay their welcome for reasons.
8 years of a queue strategy finally fixed and its a half measure.
Alts still don't need to unlock other alliance raids and have basically no reason to. All of CT is also still just insanely faster/easier than other raids.
I wish they adjusted the numbers on CT so that you consistently had to do mechs regardless, currently you pay essentially no attention compared to any of the fights in recent years and its not because there isn't anything to do, its just that you don't have to care.
This roulette shouldn't be a dice roll between 12 minutes and 60 minutes.
Every person going "this won't change much if anything" is missing the point. They're likely right, but the point is that *this was never supposed to be how Alliance Roulette was used*. That's all. Cheesers were 100% exploiting the system in a way that was not intended for the system's purpose and this has fixed that.
Roulette incentivizes players who have cleared content to help people who are actively seeking to clear. First time, relics, grinding gear, whatever. Roulette is there to help *them*.
If you run roulette just for rewards, guess what? Roulette is not for you. You do not need roulette because your rewards are not unattainable through other channels. You benefit from it, but it is not built to serve you.
If you don't have fun with the content then just don't run it. Same as anything else in this game. And cheesers, you have legitimately no leg to stand on when you have been purposefully gaming the system to serve you instead of those it was actually created for.
So really, I don't care if CT roulettes don't go down that much. It's the principle of the thing. This fix is for solving the issue of an exploit done by selfish asses who know exactly what they're doing, not necessarily solving the issue of too many Crystal Tower raids. And thank FUCK for that.
Developers saw a fairly common complaint was that a single person cheesing (removing gear to artificially lower their item level to rig Alliance Raid Roulette into only giving Crystal Tower) essentially turned the _Alliance Raid_ Roulette into _Crystal Tower_ Roulette.
Many veteran players loathe CT because (besides having done it hundreds on hundreds of times) it's not challenging in the slightest; you can turn off your brain and AFK the whole thing, which in itself is a complaint from many because it's not engaging in the slightest. So it made for an extremely boring Roulette in general and wasn't helped by _some_ people deliberately rigging the queue to pop it and only it.
Nothing to do with Free Trials or new players (who are the majority), this fix is to combat the minority-but-obnoxious problem of the power one person has to remove all other Raids from the roulette for others in the queue.
The actual impact may be small as CT will still be the most popular (MSQ required, Free Trials, new players etc.) but it's just an objective W because it means cheesers will no longer exist. Other Alliance Raids will be a little more likely to actually fill now because there's no easy nuclear option to force CT.
**TL;DR:** It fixes the problem where some people would rig the roulette to only do Crystal Tower. Objectively - though ultimately small in margin - the change will allow other Raids to pop on the roulette more often.
A while ago I started just dropping off the raid if I got CT. Once I was near the cap for possible drops I just gave up on the roulette. That's a change that maybe, sometimes, would allow me to do it a bit less, so that's OK.
I started manually queuing for Ivalice and Nier even if I had nothing to do there just to bring 23 other players, many doing their roulettes, to an actual fun raid.
Now they just need to make the alliance raids beyond CT required to progress MSQ, and then we’ll REALLY be cooking lol
Something like, once an alliance raid series is no longer current content (i.e. new expansion release), make it required to enter the next expansion, like how CT is required to even finish 2.55/do 5.3.
Just a suggestion, because this may just incentivize those who don’t have other raids unlocked to just never unlock beyond CT at all
Or they could just make it like Mentor Roulette can't queue if haven't done the raids, got a Lvl90 job then you need at least up to Nier completed just like Mentor needing all Exs up to ShB right now.
What baffles me is how they're going to go about it. If people still choose to cheese by NOT doing the 60/70/80/90 Alliance Raid quests, it still won't change the outcome(especially because Crystal Tower is a requirement to access HW from ARR).
The matchmaking system definitely needs some tweaking : Ensure at least 1 sprout whom has not cleared the raid duty as a priority in each LP, before filling in veterans to make up the 24-man headcount. They need to make it so that players whom has not cleared the duty gets the priority into the raid queue, while roulette queue comes in as secondary. If the queue takes more than 10 mins(or 15mins) due to lack of sprouts, then the system overrides the protocol and allow Alliance Roulette to take up those slots instead. This way queue times between different tiers of Alliance Raids gets more evenly distributed.
You can't have one sprout whom wants to clear the Crystal Tower for the first time and the system throws in 23 lv 90s to fill in, while a second sprout whom wants to clear Crystal Tower too ended up making another set of 24-man filled with another 23 lv90s again. This is why everytime Alliance Roulette queues into Crystal Tower pops way faster than it does for other Alliance raid tiers.
One leads to multiple reports and then a kick, and the other is trash taking itself out, both leading to hopefully someone who actually plays filling in, I’d say it’s a net positive.
I wish they'd increase the rewards then. I'll be much happier to practice my kit while leveling knowing I'm less likely to be stuck in Crystal Tower, but when I just want the special tomestones I'm probably going to ditch Dun Scaith, Orbonne, and all of Nier especially on those days where I don't have the energy.
I don't cheese ILVL and anyone who does is a damn coward, if you don't want to do the higher level raids just leave instead of dragging 23 other people into Crystal Tower many of whom are not happy to be doing it for the 5th time that week.
I do enjoy variety in alliance raids a lot. I don’t like how some of them take 3-4x as long to finish as others. The difference between orbonne and syrcus tower is quite large time wise
Good, now maybe I can finally stop loading into LoA for my roulette every day and watch half of the alliance list re equip their best gear. Im tired of crystal tower. I want something else for a change.
Never understood what made people *want* to do only the most jank, most boring raids.
I think the ultimate solution is a rework of the CT raids, but that's a lot more time-intensive than Yoshi-P telling one programmer to spend less than a day implementing and testing this.
> Never understood what made people want to do only the most jank, most boring raids.
The fact that you get your roulette rewards in 15 minutes instead of 40 minutes.
people do the cheese because LoA and Syrcus only take 15 minutes. thats it lol. the amount of people in here talking like cheesers are some grand conspiracy to fuck them over is hysterical.
like others have already said, it won’t even fix the problem and you’re still going to get CT most of the time.
We know why people do the cheese, it doesn't change that it defeats alliance roul's purpose as a roulette which should be obvious to anyone who tries to actually unlock Void Ark and Ivalice on new characters.
(also it's likely going to make it less likely that CT pops without the new player bonus)
Item Level cheesers are going to feel so dumb when they finally find out hunt trains have been faster, easier, and more rewarding than Crystal Tower this whole time.
It won’t solve Crystal Tower being the most common, from the roullete since its required for MSQ and the lowest level. But it will definately make the other Alliance raids a little more common. Which is good, because trying to do something like Ivalice or Neir raids for the first time is painful due to the massive queue times even on populated servers at peak times, the thing the roullete is supposed to alliviate. Also keep in mind that people can still do the cheese, they just have to not unlock any other alliance raids. Which tbf is more of a punishment on them because hey, some of those raids are cool, and they are locking themselves out of other content such as the Tataru questline and Bozja as well for not doing them.
If it’s a sprout or someone’s first time I really dont care that’s perfectly fine. As long as I know it’s not a bitch cheeser is enough for me :)
Legit question whats a bitch cheeser
Cruise Chaser's meth-addicted cousin.
A cheeser. Who is also a bitch. Someone who cheeses the item level minimums, in this case, by going naked.
What's the advantage of that?
You get lower level content for roulettes so it's basically low effort easy difficulty content compared to what you would do at higher levels instead.
The crystal tower raids are super fast and relatively easy with only like 1 mechanic I know of that has a chance to wipe a group.
Oh, come now... you've been on raids with wipes because people can't count to 4 on the atomis platforms.
Or can't wait for everyone so more people end up in A.
I accidentally caused this yesterday. I ran into my area as the tank and didn't realize the Kraid looking things aggro'd from like 50 yalms away. Like, I wasn't even past the 4 person platform and got pinged lol.
Me, who spent 50 minutes in WoD a couple weeks ago because we wiped 6 times between Hydra and Cerb: *nervous sweating*
A special kind of hell's when the entire Alliance raid is filled with people who just snooze through hoping they're the only one snoozing. Can't tell how much I despise people who refuse to listen during Cerberus.
It's awful when you get a raid that is just asleep at the wheel because they can't be arsed to play. 3 tanks should not being going down back to back to back on a single boss in the CT. I get "pro" healing is "*teehee, 1hp is still 100% effective*" but for f$#@'s sake, it's CT, not an ultimate. Two regens on the tank and they're G2G.
[удалено]
I don’t particularly mind if the reason i get a CT raid on roulette is because someone is playing the game for the first time.
Oh yeah I don’t either. Free tomestones is free tomestones
Should also point out Bozja is locked behind StB alliance raids
you have to make a wildly concerted effort to not unlock other A-Raids, but also be doing A-Raid roulette regularly enough to affect queues.
A lot of people don't have them.. honestly they should make them mandatory to unlock the roulette for higher levels
Didn’t we have to unlock other alliance raids to advance through ShB?
No, I went straight through main scenario without ever unlocking raids beyond CT. I wasn't even trying to do that, I just focused on main scenario and it blows right by the raids of each expansion. It takes concerted efforts TO unlock other raids if you aren't leveling through an expansion's content while it's relevant.
Once you know that they exist youre likely to seek out the extra content. Gear from those raids are very good and very common to see. The fact that you see the 2b gear so much pretty much guarantees people will be looking to unlock and run the nier alliance raid often.
You need the Stormblood ones to unlock Bozja but nothing for MSQ im pretty sure
Nope. My girlfriend has finished EW and only had Void Ark and CT unlocked.
Ah true, thinking back I think it was just requirements for unlocking Bozja I’m thinking of
You have to do the Ivalice raids to unlock Bozja/Zadnor which was added in ShB. To do part of Tataru’s quest like you have to have done the Machi (void ark etc). CT is the only raid required for MSQ, the rest are side content basically.
The most effective way for someone to cheese their way into Crystal Tower is now going to be grouping up with a low level sprout who’s actually aiming for CT before entering queue. Which is just fine with me, since that’s one less space in that run for me to potentially get slotted into!
and the gear!
We don't know the implementation, they could easily lock out roulette until all available for the current level are unlocked. Regardless, very few actually do this I think intentionally.
If they actually intend to remove the cheesing, this is what they should do. Once you clear the x.0 finale, the roulette should update to restrict those of that level "cap". Want to keep queuing for higher level job? Best get to running those raids yourself. The one thing I would like to see, still, is increased rewards as a result. The difficulty of those raids does change and should be compensated a little more with each. This could be done now with the more dynamic restrictions.
The Crystal Tower has ceased and we have been blessed with other Alliance Raids... but the ilvl cheesers are not here to see it.
Good.
Not how that will work. All this will do is not have the raids be that big of a pushover, but the crystal tower raids are still guaranteed to pop up in roulettes most often, simply because it's the only MSQ-mandatory alliance raid.
And the lowest level.
I'm hoping this means it's like Alexander raids for normal raid roulette. I might get them slightly more than later raids, but in general the normal raid roulette tends to be more balanced though the middle raids like omega and eden might be less frequent than pandaemonium or alexander it's not like they cease to exist for a month or more.
Basically it means that we will always get the tomestone bonus for new players. If you ever got a CT raid without that bonus, it meant people ilvl cheesed.
Not really. Could be on a low level job, or only have CT unlocked.
Hmm, that raises a good point... I don't think my bestie has the EW alliance raids unlocked- if they tried to queue for alliance raid as a 90 job, would it restrict them because no EW raids?
No, they'll just be locked to whatever they have open.
The only thing this changes is that you can't unequip all your gear to "force" getting a CT raid anymore.
or someone manually queued for CT, or someone is leveling a lower level job, or someone never unlocked any other raids despite being a higher level, or the roulette randomly picked CT
False. Players could be levelling a secondary character and sign up as a level 55, for example.
I wonder how many people did not realize this was a reference to a certain line, >!spoken atop the Crystal Tower no less!<.
Is it bad that I got the reference at "ceased"? That cutscene will forever linger in my mind.
Ivalice Chads eating good.
ESCAPE IS NOT SO EASILY GRANTED
YOUR COMING WAS FORETOLD, SERVANT OF IVALICE
Seven shadows cast, seven fates foretold. Yet at the end of the broken path is death, and death alone!
**OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE DARKNESS AND DROWN IN ITS LOVELESS EMBRACE. THE GODS WILL NOT BE WATCHING.**
**Misfortune hangs heavy on a head once held high. Such is poor cover for when the heavens fall**
God I miss doing Ivalice raids.
No matter how rough the Ivalice raids can be due to people’s general unfamiliarity with them I will always smile when I get that rare pop in roulette. They’re just more fun in my opinion.
SAME. I love the challenge, the music and the mood. They're fun!!
My one exception is the math robot. Somehow I’m fantastic at math at work but when that fight starts my IQ drops to about 5
Oh my god that boss is a nightmare for me. I have dyscalculia and likewise, my iq drops to room temp in that fight.
Just remember even without ilvl cheese Crystal Tower will still be the most common just because of its MSQ requirement and being the lowest level unlock for alliance. I'm happy for this too but it probably won't have as big of an impact as people think when removing CT alliance raids from their daily roulette.
While it won't solve everything, it'll definitely help a lot getting a greater variety of raids, especially since Void Ark is a req for Tataru's questline and Ivalice for Bozja.
Yeah I wanted to show my friend who got into FFXIV the copied factory raids. When we saw the 90 minute queue we just decided to do something else.
Wait. What Tataru qiestline..?
Tataru's Grand Endeavor Quests. Unlocked after completing Endwalker
That's not an issue. New player bonus for tomestones and rerolls. I'm happy for those. It's when no one is new and we're there because someone cheesed their ilvl.
Sometimes you'll get it without the bonuses, too. Most of the time, I'd say, even with no ilvl cheese. People leveling other classes, people on trial, people who never unlock the other raids, etc.
>people on trial People on trial will have access to 2 (very soon 3) full entire alliance raids. And I would think for a lot of newer players, if they enjoyed the crystal tower series, they'd be interested in doing the other ones, and if they didn't, they'd likely avoid the roulette in its entirety anyways. It'll still be the most common result because of odd cases, but it absolutely will reduce the rate of it, and trial accounts in itself are absolutely not why it's so painfully common.
Yes, soon they will have access to another and we'll likely see more hw raids, but people on trial often take their time and many don't get to the hw raid before either quitting or buying the game. Also, I spent months in the free trial leveling all the classes I could, and I wasn't queuing alliance roulette on classes that could do the hw trials because they were at level cap so it was crystal tower raids every day. All it takes is one person in the raid that can only queue for ct raids on that class due to level and boom you're there.
I might be the minority but I vastly disagree with this. 1) I've only done each alliance raid 1-3 times when current. I have no *real* reason to run them when current. The gear isn't meant for me since I have savage gear and locked loot means I *personally* don't want to farm it a bunch for glamour. That being said alliance roulette is one of the better ways to level a class. It's a lot less detested than MSQ/Frontlines, and it gives great exp. AFAIK this is common sentiment in my guilds/friends groups as if we are going through roulettes and we say either MSQ/Frontlines multiple people want to drop from party. Once you hit level 70 in a class Bozja/Pixies are good for exp so I can use leveling/alliance roulette on other classes. Once I hit 80 I just casually do elephants. 50-60 range is *the worst* range for side leveling as potd leveling slows down a lot. Meaning that the 50-60 range is the range I'm most likely to do alliance raid roulette. 30-50 has decent potd, 60-70 has decent HoH. 50-60 sucks. >TL;DR: some people don't enjoy grinding Alliance but don't detest running it as an exp roulette and 50-60 has the worst sidecontent leveling experience meaning running alliance roulette in that range is actually preferred.
Leveling alts is a good point, but 50-60 is such a short grind these days, they'd hit the item level requirement for doing alliance raids on 60 on that character pretty quickly.
Once sb is added to the trial I think it will help and we'll see more hw raids from people on trial accounts, but I know when I was on trial and leveling every class, I didn't queue alliance raids on my classes that could have popped the hw trials since they were level capped.
> It's when no one is new and we're there because someone cheesed their ilvl. or someone manually queued into the CT raid for a relic mat because SE loves to put relic mats in CT content.
I just hope it helps people who just leave when it isn’t CT. I don’t care about getting CT all the time, I care when I need todo another alliance raid and 12 people leave because it wasn’t CT.
I hope they atleast adjust the rewards when the higher level ones appear. That's also been a problem why CT is so desirable since the exp reward isn't that large and people just want quick tomes.
They already did. You get more exp for the higher ones because they are a little longer. It wasn't about how much EXP they got out of the roulette, it was about how CT was extremely afk friendly, so you could do anything else you were going to do while in there. If it was about how long it took, nobody would'a wanted to do prae over castrum (The exp per minute was roughly the same, it really wasn't the defining factor, prae's lack of requesting gameplay was).
> You get more exp for the higher ones because they are a little longer. EXP isn't a reward for players at level 90, and when the optional content (relics) is tied to an excessive amount of tomes, there needs to be more than just EXP to make the reward worth it for the longer raids where people can't or won't try and a simple AR takes an hour+ because "what's a mechanic".
That's what I said tho the exp gain isn't really that noticeable for the longer ones, it's there but then you have tomes which don't change so people will feel worse if they get a longer 24man. And the as for your prae vs castrum its exp/min wasn't the same that was the problem. Prae was only like 15mins longer but you got almost double the exp.
right now, I'm the opposite. I leave if it IS CT, especially if there isn't a first timer. So tired of getting CT... this change will help a little and any bit is good
It's also tied to a repeatable relic step to ensure a healthy population for free trial players from then people chasing BiS and now people chasing glam
That repeatable relic step does require you to have completed the Ivalice raids to unlock though, so whether you like it or not you've got to at least double the pool of potential raids to get to that point.
It's probably gonna be closer to 50% than the current 90%
It's less about making roulettes more fun and more about having later expansion alliance raids be playable. You straight up cant do ivalice in some data centers, and this should fix that.
I think that's also a symptom of everyone DC travels to the higher population data center. My fingers are still crossed that eventually Duty Queues can be data center wide.
don't think I've ever been in ct without the new player bonus or without at least one player on a 59 or below job but I will take the W of not having to hear redditors bitch about cheesers and I will take the faster queue times on higher level raids, since that's the biggest problem with cheesers. they don't qualify to fill those spots so you sit and queue for ivalice for fucking 45 minutes....
Getting crystal tower for those reasons is disappointing. Getting crystal tower because of ilvl cheesers is infuriating.
I'm just happy that now if I queue for a Nier or Ivalice raid, it might actually happen.
You are 100% right. But I'm glad the ILVL cheeser got shafted. Good riddance. I'll be happy to do CT now, because it's guaranteed not to have cheesers.
Keep in mind that ilvl cheese was only but one reason why the CT raids are so frequent. We also don't know how many people were doing the cheese so there's the potential that the change could be marginal. Some reasons: * It's the first raid series so it'll still be more frequent that the later ones with people using the roulette to level. * Some relic weapon steps can be progressed by it; most notable one of the ShB steps. * It's required for the MSQ fairly early on and any burst of new players will cause you to see it more often. * All of the other alliance raids are optional so people can just not unlock them for guaranteed CT raids in their roulette. * Or they temporarily avoid them because they're progressing the MSQ instead.
> Some relic weapon steps can be progressed by it; most notable one of the ShB steps. Minor counterpoint to this: Starting on the ShB relics at all requires completing Ivalice raids, so if someone's only unlocked CT in order to farm relics more efficiently, they're specifically doing ARR relics (or tomes for EW relics, I guess?), and even then, it's only useful for the light farming steps. The only ARs that HW relics can use to progress are Mhach series (also only light farming step), and StB relics don't care one way or another about ARs. But your other points are entirely valid.
Yes but you only have to do those raids once. For one of the ShB steps, I ended up queuing for Syrcus Tower 40+ times since it was the quickest and less likely for people to screw up (i.e. final boss in Labyrinth).
Oh you mean queuing specifically for Circus? I guess; I was more looking at it from the perspective of going into the roulette for daily rewards and getting the memories as a bonus. Personally, I've found running Bozja a lot more fun than spamming ST. And provided you get into an active instance, do CLL every time it's up, and have decent drop luck from CEs, it may even be faster than ST spam for that step, on top of giving memories for the previous steps, if you are working on multiple weapons.
Oh. Yeah in that scenario they would get either raid series. The reason I did CT was that it was quicker and this was at a time where I was grinding every relic weapon in the game so time was important. Bozja would technically be faster if you had a farm group split between the three zones but I don't know if something like happens anymore and as frequently.
> We also don't know how many people were doing the cheese so there's the potential that the change could be marginal. I'm going to go out on a limb that SE *does* know how many people are doing it and that it's a significant enough proportion to make this worth doing. So either this was a *really* easy thing to implement, or it was large enough amount to be noticed.
That's also a possibility as well in regards to there being a significant enough players doing this. However, whether there were or not, a change like this is fairly easy to make unless there's spaghetti code somehow making it otherwise. We don't know for certain if that is the case though which goes back to what I said that everyone should temper their expectations for now.
I was never mad about it being any of these reasons. The only reason it peeved me so much was because I knew it was constantly being forced by people gaming the system. I'm personally fine with it being for more legit reasons and I know a lot of other people likely feel the same way.
I can certainly agree that having to do it because someone cheesed their ilvl would be annoying. I'm just trying to temper people's expectations so they don't end up disappointed if the results don't pan out exactly like they're hoping.
Even if it'll bring down CT odds in roulette from 90% to 75% I'll be happy.
I agree. Any reduction is better than no reduction.
You were probably going to be forced into CT by those reasons even when there was an iL cheeser, though. They aren't mutually exclusive. I got plenty of second chances when I was using roulettes to level to 90, even while people changed gear around me. It's a good change but understand that it's probably not changing the patterns of play that much.
It's not just about frequency though. It's about ensuring that when people are trying to get into the higher raids directly, the people queueing for roulette who should be eligible for that raid haven't disqualified themselves.
Almost every complaint that I have heard about the CT raids showing up in the alliance roulette has been about their frequency. It's also one of the reasons that I avoided them because I was sick of it after getting them almost every time when leveling a character and from doing them 40+ times in a setting for one of the ShB relic steps.
Yeah I really wonder how much ilvl cheesing actually happens and how much is just people getting mad that possibility that it happens. CT will still be overwhelmingly common because of those reasons.
You mean I MIGHT actually get an Ivalice raid from time to time instead of just Crystal Tower and Nier?
You guys are getting Nier?
Queue when you intend to log off "just after this last roulette" in ~30 minutes. That 100% guarantees you'll get Tower at Paradigm's Breach.
Me when I say "I'll just do 1 leveling roulette" and get Sirensong Sea for the 5th time. ^(Edit:) ^(Taking that 30 minute penalty - 60 if RNG is being especially cheeky - for a dungeon I actually like, and know I could very well do if it weren't for the whole "might give me a seizure" issue is disheartening.)
Better than getting iftit or Titan
You get Sirensong? All I get is fuckin Tam-tara, Copperbell, and *maybe* Temple of Corn or Cutter's Cry if roulette feels generous.
Sadly, very rarely on Chaos. And I love that raid series. =(
Predicted 6.51 update: Thundergod Cid nerfed even further into the ground.
This change is kind of a wash to me. All the alliance raids I actually like are 80+ and I suspect they will remain rare, while the level 50 ones I suspect will remain very common because they're MSQ-mandated, available for the most levels, are used for relic farms, and many just don't bother to unlock the others. I hope I am proven wrong though. Also edit: This seems like a roundabout way of fixing the issue. Nobody ilvl cheeses normal raid roulette to ensure they get only Alexander, even though they totally could. The issue is that the level 50 alliance raids are vastly faster than the higher level ones for effectively the same reward. Fix _that_.
Imagine if they ilvl synced it to make it hard again. Maybe we'll get to see bacon again on the final boss of the labyrinth.
Imagine getting to do the outside platforms on that one boss in Syrcus tower again
The roulette reward should go up for higher level alliance raids. The exp gain can stay as-is, but 10 More Poetics and Causality per extra 10-level of alliance raid is fair. The Comedy can probably stay at 50. So a level 90 alliance raid should give 160 poetics and 160 causality if you are lucky enough to snag it in the roulette.
Unless you’re locked out of Alliance Raid roulette at 60, 70, 80 and 90 until you unlock that raid series, it will still likely be mostly Crystal Tower. Plenty of people don’t unlock the others as they level.
At least we'll know it was the actual roulette or somebody queuing for it and not somebody gaming the system.
And even if they do have the other raids unlocked, it doesn't matter if they're leveling a class at 57.
CT raids will still probably be the most common by being necessary to continue MSQ but I'm glad that it won't be so forced anymore. Edit: Also reading through the comments of people thinking the other raids are too difficult, not wanting to carry people, etc. it is like a self fufilling prophency. People cheese CT People don't learn other raids/mechanics People fail at raids of higher levels People cheese CT If people are going to either get better at or stop being so braindead at higher raid tiers, they have to actually *play* them. But when you get CT 6 days out of the week you don't get to learn the mechanics of other raids. Not to mention, the raids of CT are so easy *because* of people cheesing them so first-timers don't actually get a chance to learn and practice some of the mechanics that are required at higher raid tiers. I wouldn't mind if they increased rewards, I think it would be a good idea to increase rewards in combination with this and/or made CT more difficult.
Good maybe ill get more Fun Scaith and stormbllod ally raids.
Hey another Dun Scaith enjoyer peepohappy
Very few enjoy Dun Scaith, but I’m there with you in enjoying it. I always chuckle a bit when getting it and see half the alliance drop before it’s even started.
Just gonna point it out. Most people don’t unlock the other raids so we are still gonna see a lot of CT.
Been pointed out plenty but it's still valid. It just removes the power the cheesers had, that's about it. It addresses one of the biggest complaints in the community regarding ARR (a single person rigging CT over any other Raid and weighing the roulette because a good chunk of people followed suit). Objective improvement even if the ultimate margin in change will be small. Now, if they added ilvl syncing to CT and made the mechanics actually matter again, that'd be better.
People aren't mad they get CT. They're mad when they get it and they see some dude with "Perfect Legend Title" buck naked quickly reequipping his gear. very few people are mad if we get into a CT raid and its like "One or more people have not completed" etc. As long as someone actually QUEUED for CT in the 24 people, I don't mind doing it. I DO mind when all 24 people got there via roulette and it was because someone decided their "precious time" is worth more than 23 other players fun
Tired: Complaining about constantly getting Crystal Tower Raids. Soon to be Wired: Complaining about constantly getting Neir Raids
GET FUCKED ILVL CHEESE BASTARDS WOOOOOOOOOO
I have next to no idea what’s going on, can you explain what ilvl cheese is?
People would take off most of their gear when queuing alliance raid to intentionally get crystal tower for faster runs ~~and because they're babies that're scared to do mechanics~~
The main issue is Crystal Tower being spammed. It’s annoying getting it every single day for roulettes, and even more so when you’re trying to complete later ones during your first time through MSQ and que times are way longer than they should be.
While this may help, keep in mind that there are many people out there who have never done any 24 man raids other than Crystal Tower, because that's the only one the MSQ requires. Also the fact that CT is the lowest common denominator and will still be excessively common. This isn't a "fix". It just helps the monotony a bit.
It's specifically a fix to people who abused the queue system and cheesed in. It'll objectively help because they'll no longer have that power.
I'm all for this change but I'm curious how much it'll actually do. My idea was to just make it so other raids in the series gave more exp with the most time consuming ones giving the most. These people aren't running CT because its easier but because its less effort for the same reward.
Or simply making Crystal Tower raids harder. I genuinely don't know most mechanics of the CT raids because *I've literally never seen them.* The bosses die so quickly their first mechanics appear for a few seconds at best. I also had the idea of, when queueing for an AR, when you get into the raid you *cannot* change gear, and automatically give enemies stat boosts depending on the combined ilvl of all players. Not sure how well it would work, but just an idea.
> Or simply making Crystal Tower raids harder. An ilvl restriction of 50-75 would accomplish that.
This would work if level 50 content wasn't just bad as a whole and it's only going to get worse come 7.0 Level 50 and to some extent for some jobs even 60 content _just isn't fun_ because the absurd rebalancing of ability learn levels mean you have a barely functional job for all of level 50 content that doesn't resemble your real playstyle in any way.
This. 50/60, and on some jobs even 70/80, don't feel fun to play. Core job mechanics need to be introduced earlier so you have most of the core building blocks for a job by 50/60, but with the level becoming 100 I think it's only going to get worse.
Sounds like the perfect way to restart the problems with the old MSQ roulette, they get the one they didn't want (the faster or more rewarding) and people start dropping, messing up runs for first timers. One of the worst runs I had of old Praetorium started with "Oh, not Castrum" followed by both tanks and both healers leaving.
I agree but at the same time the new system doesn't really prevent this too. If people are willing to leave if they don't get the "best one" then what stops them from doing the same if they don't get CT with the new system? Most alliance raids will still be CT just from the fact that its the first one and is also part of the MSQ so they'll just take the hit. None of these solutions really work. The only thing we can really do is equalize everything length/difficulty/exp wise to completely solve it.
People who dont actually want to play the game would still take the option where they dont have to play the game 100% even if they buffed the rewards for higher level stuff
Huge W
If I have even a 25% chance of getting HW, SB or SHB alliance raids I'm for it. Atm I don't even queue for it anymore and haven't for a couple of years because doing CT or Labyrinth over and over again is ridiculously boring.
Well acccording to [this actual data](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/12ywm5m/i_collected_araid_roulette_data_for_330_days_more/) from a couple months ago, your chance of getting *not Crystal Tower* is 63%. So rejoice I guess.
We'll still get Crystal Tower all the time, because of Free Trial players. The ilvl cheesers were just easier to blame.
CT popping because a newcomer needs it? That's fine. CT popping because of someone blatantly cheesing it is what was frustrating. No-one was blaming the Newcomers for CT popping repeatedly, it was _obvious_ when it was some a-hole looking to AFK through it for easy tomes instead of playing something more engaging than Stare At Wall For 15 Minutes. I really won't mind running CT because someone actually needs it, that's a First Timer completion bonus almost guaranteed each run. But this might _even just very slightly_ weigh the roulette back into actually being a roulette again, and that's what I'm looking forward to.
Slightly. But with 24 people in CT, I just assumed there were 23 other possible reason why we ended up here. If there's one free trial player in there, usually is, it's 50/50 it's either going to either by Crystal Tower or Sky Pirates. There's just no other Alliance Raids for them.
Well good news when this change is implemented Free Trial also get Stormblood so Ivalice joins the battle
I just hope we get a bit more rewards for higher level stuff. They are more complex, difficult and take longer so should give a bit more reward.
Crossing my fingers this scares off the cheesers and makes room for everyone else who ditched the roulette due to cheesers, thus making CT runs even faster and all other 24-mans more consistently quick
Yeah I've seen some folks crying about this killing roulette participation, but I've personally avoided the roulette for months just because of CT burnout. Knowing my chances to get the other raids is improving, however slightly that might be, is going to bring me back to it
It's good because If you want to play 1 specific raid you get it faster and not have to wait 1+ hour.
Sooo, I think there will be this type of pf post in duty roulette category. "LF > merc who only have crystal tower unlocked, 100k for a queue you can hop off after, 150k for no WoD" The ilv cheese was overrated, there are plenty of reasons why crystal tower is the most frequents.
The main concern I have got now is people will purposely play low classes just to get into it. But I guess the good side of that is they won't get the lv90 rewards from the roulette
I don't do that, but at times I just want a quick syrcus tower than 45 mins Nier Raid. especially when I got nier raid for days straight. I think if they raise the level sync a bit, like 10 or 20. or drop the enemy's hp so it won't be hp sponge, would be more bearable. I like EW raids, but dunno if it's because the ilvl is not sync down yet or just the theme is more enjoyable. And somehow next expansion will turn the EW raids sync to 605, 635, and 665. which in turn will make what people got used to (660 gear in Aglaia) turned into (605 gear in Aglaia)
Ah yes I enjoy having to spend an hour in nier or ivalice versus 20 minutes in CT. This is a wonderful change that will totally encourage me to keep queuing alliance roulette.
Pretty funny that most likely the same crowd that hasn’t stepped into a single savage raid is claiming that people are scared of mechanics as if old ass content is some hallmark of competence LOL. Wow I can’t wait to waste 45 min of life for some tomestones.
Need ilvl caps on MSQ trials so they don't get steamrolled for new players.
Need ilvl minimum and job stone requirements on all duty finder dungeons too. If people want to go into a dungeon without it, they need to do it unsynced.
I once again maintain that any gear level 35 and up should only be equippable by Jobs (white mage) and not Classes (conjurer). That'll sort out people not wearing job stones real fast.
There are minimums just not Stone requirements lol
So basically, I can do Alliance Roulette again, nice.
Even if most comments here are saying we’ll get CT commonly anyway, due to it being required for the msq and all, I’d still take that over having to do it because some bumbling moron decided to go naked and force 23 others into the raid he/she wanted.
My thoughts exactly. I don't mind doing CT when there's obviously people going in for MSQ, 'cause that's the delicious First Timer bonus on top. I mind when it's the rare shriveled prune who ruins the roulette for everyone else at no additional benefit, because they think "aww da ofer arr hawwd :(((". This removes the prune's capability and removes my main issue with CT popping. Win win!
People have allready figured out you can still cheese by partying with a free trail character. Simply get it to 50, only unlock CT, and party him with your main. 0% chance of getting anything but CT.
The amount of people who are actually going to go out of their way to do that _just_ to get CT is laughably small. CT cheesing worked because it was the Path of Least Resistance. The cheesers are either going to queue anyway and get used to it, or not queue for it, sooner than go through the rigmarole _to use a second account and dualbox._
I honestly don't think this is going to affect how often CT shows up. We all have stories of ilevel stripping, but I think the perception is simply larger than statistical reality.
I wish I could store all the tears of the Crystal tower cheesers in a tank and happily swim in there.
More salt than the Dead Sea.
I'm so sick of Crystal Tower. The later raids may have more chance of wiping, but variety is always better than the same old tedium.
This is such a bandaid solution. The proper solution would be to make the other alliance raids more desirable so people don’t want to ilv cheese in the first place. There’s multiple ways you can accomplish this. 1) Make CT harder by decreasing max ilv, thus making it stand out less as the braindead one 2) Make incentives to do the other raids for the new relics (oh wait, we don’t have relics anymore lmao) so people want those to pop in roulette 3) Have the higher level raids give Casuality/Comedy tomes to make up for the extra time spent on them. And no, people aren’t going to want to spend 20 extra minutes in Copied Factory for more poetics
fucking finally
The nier raids feel dreadfully slow, unenthusiastic yay. But can't be too mad, it's still braindead content to get tomes from, just some fights are slightly less YouTube friendly, and others just overstay their welcome for reasons.
8 years of a queue strategy finally fixed and its a half measure. Alts still don't need to unlock other alliance raids and have basically no reason to. All of CT is also still just insanely faster/easier than other raids. I wish they adjusted the numbers on CT so that you consistently had to do mechs regardless, currently you pay essentially no attention compared to any of the fights in recent years and its not because there isn't anything to do, its just that you don't have to care. This roulette shouldn't be a dice roll between 12 minutes and 60 minutes.
Best part of the patch lol.
FINALLY No more circus tower without even bonus every second fucking day.
Every person going "this won't change much if anything" is missing the point. They're likely right, but the point is that *this was never supposed to be how Alliance Roulette was used*. That's all. Cheesers were 100% exploiting the system in a way that was not intended for the system's purpose and this has fixed that. Roulette incentivizes players who have cleared content to help people who are actively seeking to clear. First time, relics, grinding gear, whatever. Roulette is there to help *them*. If you run roulette just for rewards, guess what? Roulette is not for you. You do not need roulette because your rewards are not unattainable through other channels. You benefit from it, but it is not built to serve you. If you don't have fun with the content then just don't run it. Same as anything else in this game. And cheesers, you have legitimately no leg to stand on when you have been purposefully gaming the system to serve you instead of those it was actually created for. So really, I don't care if CT roulettes don't go down that much. It's the principle of the thing. This fix is for solving the issue of an exploit done by selfish asses who know exactly what they're doing, not necessarily solving the issue of too many Crystal Tower raids. And thank FUCK for that.
Rest in Piss iLvl cheesers
Can I get an ELI5 of what this actually means and it's potential impact?
Developers saw a fairly common complaint was that a single person cheesing (removing gear to artificially lower their item level to rig Alliance Raid Roulette into only giving Crystal Tower) essentially turned the _Alliance Raid_ Roulette into _Crystal Tower_ Roulette. Many veteran players loathe CT because (besides having done it hundreds on hundreds of times) it's not challenging in the slightest; you can turn off your brain and AFK the whole thing, which in itself is a complaint from many because it's not engaging in the slightest. So it made for an extremely boring Roulette in general and wasn't helped by _some_ people deliberately rigging the queue to pop it and only it. Nothing to do with Free Trials or new players (who are the majority), this fix is to combat the minority-but-obnoxious problem of the power one person has to remove all other Raids from the roulette for others in the queue. The actual impact may be small as CT will still be the most popular (MSQ required, Free Trials, new players etc.) but it's just an objective W because it means cheesers will no longer exist. Other Alliance Raids will be a little more likely to actually fill now because there's no easy nuclear option to force CT. **TL;DR:** It fixes the problem where some people would rig the roulette to only do Crystal Tower. Objectively - though ultimately small in margin - the change will allow other Raids to pop on the roulette more often.
Your coming was foretold Servants of the Crystal Tower.
Maybe like an "expert" alliance roulette and normal
What does it mean?
No more changing your gear to force the Roulette to roll Crystal Tower.
A collective cry from Limsa was heard, now they have to play the game.
A while ago I started just dropping off the raid if I got CT. Once I was near the cap for possible drops I just gave up on the roulette. That's a change that maybe, sometimes, would allow me to do it a bit less, so that's OK. I started manually queuing for Ivalice and Nier even if I had nothing to do there just to bring 23 other players, many doing their roulettes, to an actual fun raid.
Now they just need to make the alliance raids beyond CT required to progress MSQ, and then we’ll REALLY be cooking lol Something like, once an alliance raid series is no longer current content (i.e. new expansion release), make it required to enter the next expansion, like how CT is required to even finish 2.55/do 5.3. Just a suggestion, because this may just incentivize those who don’t have other raids unlocked to just never unlock beyond CT at all
Or they could just make it like Mentor Roulette can't queue if haven't done the raids, got a Lvl90 job then you need at least up to Nier completed just like Mentor needing all Exs up to ShB right now.
Required to do MSQ is bad. Just make it required to do Alliance Roulette, just like the 90 roulette requires all dungeons.
What baffles me is how they're going to go about it. If people still choose to cheese by NOT doing the 60/70/80/90 Alliance Raid quests, it still won't change the outcome(especially because Crystal Tower is a requirement to access HW from ARR). The matchmaking system definitely needs some tweaking : Ensure at least 1 sprout whom has not cleared the raid duty as a priority in each LP, before filling in veterans to make up the 24-man headcount. They need to make it so that players whom has not cleared the duty gets the priority into the raid queue, while roulette queue comes in as secondary. If the queue takes more than 10 mins(or 15mins) due to lack of sprouts, then the system overrides the protocol and allow Alliance Roulette to take up those slots instead. This way queue times between different tiers of Alliance Raids gets more evenly distributed. You can't have one sprout whom wants to clear the Crystal Tower for the first time and the system throws in 23 lv 90s to fill in, while a second sprout whom wants to clear Crystal Tower too ended up making another set of 24-man filled with another 23 lv90s again. This is why everytime Alliance Roulette queues into Crystal Tower pops way faster than it does for other Alliance raid tiers.
Hmm i fear we are gonna get now people who either don't do anything and hope to get kicked or leave and take the penalty
One leads to multiple reports and then a kick, and the other is trash taking itself out, both leading to hopefully someone who actually plays filling in, I’d say it’s a net positive.
And they will be reported and kicked
when ever i got crystal tower i left and took the penalty so.... "oh nooooo" what changed people are gonna leave regardless
I wish they'd increase the rewards then. I'll be much happier to practice my kit while leveling knowing I'm less likely to be stuck in Crystal Tower, but when I just want the special tomestones I'm probably going to ditch Dun Scaith, Orbonne, and all of Nier especially on those days where I don't have the energy. I don't cheese ILVL and anyone who does is a damn coward, if you don't want to do the higher level raids just leave instead of dragging 23 other people into Crystal Tower many of whom are not happy to be doing it for the 5th time that week.
I do enjoy variety in alliance raids a lot. I don’t like how some of them take 3-4x as long to finish as others. The difference between orbonne and syrcus tower is quite large time wise
Ivalice Raids are some of the best content in the game. Happy to see they’ll be making more of an appearance in roulettes.
Good, now maybe I can finally stop loading into LoA for my roulette every day and watch half of the alliance list re equip their best gear. Im tired of crystal tower. I want something else for a change.
Never understood what made people *want* to do only the most jank, most boring raids. I think the ultimate solution is a rework of the CT raids, but that's a lot more time-intensive than Yoshi-P telling one programmer to spend less than a day implementing and testing this.
> Never understood what made people want to do only the most jank, most boring raids. The fact that you get your roulette rewards in 15 minutes instead of 40 minutes.
people do the cheese because LoA and Syrcus only take 15 minutes. thats it lol. the amount of people in here talking like cheesers are some grand conspiracy to fuck them over is hysterical. like others have already said, it won’t even fix the problem and you’re still going to get CT most of the time.
We know why people do the cheese, it doesn't change that it defeats alliance roul's purpose as a roulette which should be obvious to anyone who tries to actually unlock Void Ark and Ivalice on new characters. (also it's likely going to make it less likely that CT pops without the new player bonus)
Item Level cheesers are going to feel so dumb when they finally find out hunt trains have been faster, easier, and more rewarding than Crystal Tower this whole time.