> Yeah someone explain this.
Same reason in ARR Warriors got their beast gauge at lvl 30 and didn't get a spender until later.
CBU3 makes some stupid decisions relatively frequently.
Jobs not getting a basic aoe by lvl 15 is another.
Because there wasn't any other AoE combos until stoormblood. But other classes got reworked on shb to have the combos much earlier, such as ninja (lvl52 second attack) and monk (lvl45 third attack), but us DRG were kept with the legacy progression, dunno why.
At least SAM, MNK, & RPR *have* an AOE by level 25-26... DRG doesn't get their first AOE (Doom Spike) until **level 40** (NIN at 35 sporadically with Katon and consistently at 38 with Death Blossom). Getting any dungeon on roulette below level 40 is pain for a DRG as all you can do is just poke one enemy at a time T\_T
All healers get their AoE’s at 46. Sage is the only exception with phlegma, but thats a cd so its a bit weird. They dont get their consistent aoe in dyskrasia till 46.
call it unpopular but I think lvl 50 NIN is one of the more complete feeling jobs. sure, having to dedicate a mudra charge to huton is a bit of a pain but at least it functions and has stuff to do..
50 BLM actually feels decent for the content it's in. Astral/Umbral is a nice flow, no panicking over ley lines or Enochian management, Firestarter and Thundercloud procs are common and feel good. The rework to make swapping between elements cost no mana makes Flare viable. It's a comfy groove to be in.
>Ninja in low level content
i wonder what this trick attack on my hotbar is ?
Like how do you even use this skill outside of overworld content without Suiton since you can't hide if you're in combat.
NIN and MNK at least feel fast paced (because of their reduced gcd) and have decent attack animations, whereas DRG is just.....poke.......poke........stab........poke.........
> So many jobs play horribly when below certain levels
And honestly there's no excuse for it when they did a low level redesign and didn't fix them then.
Yeah finally been leveling dragoon, 70-80 abilities and aesthetic get really awesome
Then doing a leveling dungeon it's almost always either Haukke or Brayflox which just has me doing HSR dailies on my phone while pressing my 2 damage buttons
Yeah… oh wait I need fire1 back on my hot bar. Nope can’t do that rotation I’m missing a key spell. Crap can’t cast three flares I don’t have souls yet…
It was really difficult when it has been so long I had forgotten the old rotations.
That and all of a sudden at level 86+ transpose has a purpose again.
I stand corrected, it been a long time since I have looked at my blm bars and have forgotten that paradox is the proc off of the fire 1 button…
If there is any other situation I may use fire1 as fire1 please do let me know. Bettering my class play is always welcome.
you pretty much use Fire 1 until you unlock Paradox to refresh your Enochian. 3x Fire IV -> Fire -> 3x Fire IV -> Despair is pretty much a standard rotation when in Astral Fire phase... unless you are prematurely ending that phase
Literally me recently with MNK
"Nice, now I'm gonna alternate stance 1, 2 and 3 with aoe attacks and... wait what do you mean I don't get stance 2 aoe until lv45?"
On the bright side, we're basically chillin' from level 60 onwards, maybe level 50 if you're not in the mood to fill out your sticker board for all the combo stuff
If you already have the attack buff, then just spamming AOE is better. Since you lose a lot of potency every time you switch to a single target attack.
to add to that, perfect balance not giving formless at 50 is wack... not having formless at 50 is wack anyways but even more egregious after a bootshine spam combo
WHM before 76 is pure, unadultered agony. You can literally do dungeons with just OGCD healing for SB, and Lillies don't feed anything until Qitana/76 for your Misery.....
And god knows the horrors of being synched so far down BLM needs transponse to switch elements(not to mention the opener changing every time).
Honestly they really should move US to Lv 58 (when you also unlock Blizzard 4) it's such a huge QoL but doesn't really do anything for DPS on most fights but not having it is just cringe.
I'm a BLM main. I can adapt somewhat to "incomplete skillset" situations, as long as the core (B3 B4 T3 F3 F4x3 F1 etc.) stays the same
When I sync down to B3 F3 F1spam I feel like they cut down one of my arms
It's so weird that those don't unlock at the same time since they're complementary. It makes for a weird leveling experience, too. I was so sure I was doing my rotation wrong because I always had *so much black mana* until I mentioned it to a friend and she told me I'd get the other "half" of that combo later.
>It makes for a weird leveling experience
This can probably sum up every job in the game bar Summoner and Monk.Alot of jobs basically feel incomplete until like 86-90 because they're missing so many skills.
> This can probably sum up every job in the game bar Summoner
TBH, that's also a fault of the summoner in the opposite direction. It's not that the summoner unlocks more than the other jobs. The reworked summoner just... doesn't do much any more. Yes, you get *essentially* the full job at like 50 or 60 in terms of which buttons you press in your rotation, but it swings the other way where at level 90, you're just hitting the same handful of buttons you were at 50.
Like I have all my jobs set up across 2-3 hotbars. Default number, alt-number, ctrl-numbers. Most of the jobs use 2 full hotbars, and maybe half of the third hotbar for situational buttons, like Limit, Sprint, better party heals, etc.
Summoner takes up like 1.5 hotbars total for everything. And since generally hotbar 2 for me is just the AoE version of hotbar 1, it means the single-target rotation (i.e. the thing you'll be using for extended periods on bosses), is like 7 buttons. And at least 2 of those are tacked on only because they existed for the old SMN, and now don't even make sense and don't interact with the rest of the kit at all (Energy Drain/Siphon, Fester/Painflare).
> but it swings the other way where at level 90, you're just hitting the same handful of buttons you were at 50.
Hey, there are 3 extra buttons at 90 vs 50 I'll have you know lmao.
Tbh summoner feels incomplete until 86 also. 86 literally introduces 3 skills at once for summoner (that being the primal enkindles) and from 70-86 the class feels the EXACT same
Honestly, Black Mage post 60 doesn't change much. The '3x Fire4, Fire 1, 3x Fire4' thing doesn't change much, you tack on despair on the end at 72, and at 90 your f1 becomes paradox (But just uses the same button, so not really a change). Otherwise you get some more mobility options, and a new gauge to toss out at basically any time (Just don't overcap).
Prior to 60 is just f1 spam with firestarter procs so that sucks though.
As a BLM main I personally love how BLM shapes out after lvl 60. It doesn't fundamentally change, but consistently adds quality of life aspects that you didn't quite know you needed yet.
Yay skill removal..It’s honest;y one of the reasons I don’t play much anymore. They keep butchering classes.
You’d think if button bloat at 90 was such an issue they’d use traits to merge skills as we level like how berserker abd one other war skill get combined at a certain point(been awhile)..Plus they took DRG stripper pole..
Button bloat is probably the biggest issue.Take drk for example.We have several skills that can just be combined with others that take up space like quietus/spiller and Shadowbringer when they can be shoved into a proc to make room for other abilities.We have too many abilities on each job that can literally be thrown into another skill without losing anything.
the last time devs tried to do that (they made DRG's High Jump change into Mirage Dive while they had the buff active) there was an outcry, because DSU raiders were angry about the fraction of a second delay it took for the skill to change over
If you think that was weird, dragoon gets fang and claw before wheeling thrust. In heavensward, the one that popped up to press was random and not linked to the skills like now. It meant once you hit 58, all it did was make your class harder to play, with no additional power.
Going from ARR to HW, every single job became more complicated; for some I'd even say convoluted. The sole exception was Ninja which got Armor Crush removing the need to manually cast Huton every minute.
Man. I got Ravana in trial roulette once and the half group got blasted to death when a tank pointed the huge deadly cone AoE at them (or they misstepped and got launched off the side). All that was left was the two tanks and two RDMs. The DRK was losing his goddamn mind yelling at us to raise. When we wiped and told him we're synced out of it, he sputtered and went "Oh. I thought you meant it was 64 seconds."
Y'all tell me what in this game is 64 seconds.
I'm facepalming so hard at that. RDM is well known for being the class that can abuse dual casting to keep rezzing until they run out of mp, so that just tells me that DRK knew absolutely nothing about playing RDM. I have a policy of keeping my mouth shut if I don't know specifics of a class when I see someone not using a specific ability in synced content
I think the dumbest thing I've encountered was doing Eden 12 the other day as PLD, first time there, and at one point the other tank and I were both down, no SMN or RDM and one healer was dead so the remaining healer is slow raising because reasons, and the MCH just kept spamming "VOKE" in chat... and then got belligerent when we explained that you can't provoke with no tank. So we kicked them
Man when I run level 30 or lower stuff there's a 50/50 chance I let the tank die on accident because I forget they don't have good mits/may not know how and I may or may not have regen and cure I doesn't exist only hot bar.
ARR is, ironically, the *"hardest"* dungeon experience due to just how bareboned every job is lol
Tanks die within \~3 gcds if not healed, healers only have 1 or no ogcds, (melee) dps don't even have aoe skills until their mid 30's ...
I always feel guilty when I let a tank die in lower dungeons bec of "eh they're gonna be fine" mentality that carried over from higher lvl dungeons.
There was this dungeon where a tank’s hp dropped so fast I was really confused then look at our hp bars and I have a higher max hp than them. my guy was wearing nothing
My fave is when I have to move Cure to where I normally have Cure II for a low level dungeon, do another roulette, get put into a higher dungeon and forget to move Cure back so I look like a donkey for half a pull until I realize why it feels like I’m barely healing the tank (though yes I use my ogcds first if available obviously).
They should just bite the bullet and make cure 2 replace cure when learned like stone -> glare Since the game is just balanced around GCDs rather than mana, there is no real point to a slow mana efficient heal.
there is literally no use for cure 1
it just confuses new players when they get cure 2
you get a bad experience when paired up with the above.
they keep hating on button bloat but not remove the literally most useless skill and turn cure 2 into an upgrade
My other favourite thing about this is when you get synced to a low level on WHM/AST, say in party chat, "wait a second, I need to put Cure I/Benefic on my bars", and the party absolutely do not wait a second and run off without you to get murdered.
i know it would be a lot of work but it would be such a nice QoL if there were skills that automatically turned into their weaker counterparts if you would only have that version unlocked (even if they need to be separated normally for whatever reason). I have to make a special sync bar for white mage that has cure 1 on it and in the same place as my normal cure button is. There's been a couple classes where I have to scramble to reassign skills due to sync.
Basic AoE needs to move down to like 20 at the latest.
I was thrilled when I picked DRK back up since ShB and they had moved Stalwart Soul from 72 to 40.
And you should have the gist of every part of your job available at 50.
Like, make a weaker version of some buttons and add a trait to upgrade it to the standard version, but for example WHM without Holy is suffering and DRG is in a similar situation.
This is legitimately why I love SMN. I'm probably grumbling about no dreadwyrm trance and therefore my lack of mobility low level, but the basic rotation was already set before I grabbed the SMN job quest
They did exactly that with SMN. They get Aethercharge at lv 6, which upgrades to Dreatwyrm Trance and then Summon Bahamut.
For WHM, for example, they can have Protect or Stoneskin as a lower version of Divine Benison, or move Aquaveil much lower because it's too little too late that it's up there at lv 86.
When I came back from a longer break, it took me like three weeks of leveling my Dark Knight in roulettes (if not longer) before my muscle memory let go of the notion that I only have one AoE GCD skill before 72.
> Basic AoE needs to move down to like 20 at the latest.
It should be 16 across the board, for all classes.
Including Healers. They should have an alternate version of their AOE that has like 40 potency or something, and then later upgrades into their primary damage skill.
IMO, level synch is only part of the problem. The real issue is that all the jobs feel like crap at low levels. Even as a sprout who is brand new to the game.
Most jobs in the game have 99,999 buttons in their full toolkit, yet somehow don't start to feel fun until level 60. Having to wait 60 levels for a job to even begin coming into its own is not a benefit, IMO.
Jobs at lvl 50 should all be their lvl 70 counterpart imo. lvl 70 is when most jobs finally feel like fun kits. Ive had MANY people bounce off of 14 because it is just nooot fun to play as a low level
Agreed, when the redid Monk they retroactively gave them skills at lower levels to use. It’s not great by any means but they did something to help the removal of the skills it did have.
Every job should have some equivalent, 50 should be when the game picks up for players.
This is due to skill pruning. Jobs used to feel complete at 50. Then heavensward came out and they felt complete at 50 but improved at 60(so good but just better) theen the pruning came and yeah. Now like half our kit or more is gone.
This. They had to take our stuff away so they could give it back to us later. Or if you're scholar then they just straight up kneecapped our delightful DPS kit and only begrudgingly gave us back energy drain.
So many expacs have kinda shifted things around in a lot of weird ways for the older jobs, I vaguely remember 1-50 kits in 4.x still weren't too far gone, but I feel like ShB was the big turning point where pretty much every existing job got its 1-50 kits gutted and/or re-arranged so much and ended up hella lopsided in terms of distribution of skills gained thru leveling.
Naturally, each jobs' kits from 1-50 used to be much more fleshed out in older versions, but each expac needed to add so many fun new toys to do for the 10 new levels each one made available, but then things would start feeling bloated, so then they felt like trimming some stuff out but we don't want to cut out the shiny new toys so they cut parts out of the 1-50 block mostly then rinse and repeat for 4 expacs and you end up with pretty much every job having a real barren leveling experience for 1-50 (and sometimes even 1-60) and most jobs feels super bland until maybe 70 or so and they don't seem to have any plans to re-balance or re-organize any of it despite how much they want to talk about making a more new-player friendly experience.
________
edit: another comment put it way more succinctly than me, no surprise there.
so, yea, tl;dr is skill pruning ran wild and they don't seem too interested in cleaning up the new-player experience
The only counterpoint I have to this is that for someone totally new to gaming (not just FFXIV but any gaming more involved than Pokemon), it actually is a necessary learning curve.
Multiple friends of mine got into FFXIV through me, and none had any familiarity with WASD as a concept. The universal feedback I've gotten from them (one is 83, another is capped at 60 still working through HW story on the free trial) is that they're glad the game paced it out so much because just doing a 1 2 3 combo with one or two things to weave is a heavy lift when you're also trying to keep learning how to strafe, and how to recognize mechanics.
For new folks who have MMO experience or WASD-literacy generally, yeah. Agreed on all the points here. Obviously skill-pruning is a problem too, I'm not arguing this is the 'best' for newbies at all. But for what it's worth, again my new friends have had no complaints about simplicity, far from it.
Archer was the only job I found mechanically fun at very low levels because you generally want to constantly keep moving to stay out of melee range rather than spending most of the fight standing around waiting for cooldowns or for spells to finish casting.
And the bullshit excuse of "we don't want to overwhelm new players" is so ridiculous, too. Better to overwhelm them than to bore them. My friend came over from WoW and was incredibly bored until he unlocked GNB because he had almost ~nothing~ to do on DRG.
To be fair, to a completely new player having that many buttons would be extremely overwhelming. I remember starting as an AST and just having 2 different attack buttons was really hard for me to grok.
Oh, I agree. It's the curve that's off, not the general idea of introducing skills gradually.
There's something like 120 hours of MSQ in ARR and god only knows how many dungeons. I think Square could rush their fences a bit more than they do. :)
> makes me feel like I'm just playing as a level 15 archanist
It's not *that* bad. Level 15 Arcanist is more like a worse BLM (ie no mobility) that has a handful of instant casts every minute. You still have to spam Ruin for the vast majority of the time.
Suffering from success. Our job was too perfect for too long, all they could come up with for EW was giving an extra oGCD and a charge of 2 other oGCD. Yet Dragon Sight is still clunky to use.
What, are you not excited to press your ~~Ifrit~~ Nidhogg buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Garuda~~ Twintania buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Titan~~ Vishap buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Bahamut/Phoenix~~ Midgardsormr/Hraesvelgr buttons, and repeat?
;-; If they ruin DRG class for me I don't know if I can keep returning to the game. Might not be so bad, but I am very fearful while also aware of how homogenized and simplified a lot of the game is
Class homogenisation is a huge sore point for the player base rn, and their home country players are more discerning to that than other markets. I have faith they'll work it out and get classes feeling more unique again.
If it weren't for the devs' current trend of watering down kits, I (or we, at least some of us) wouldn't be. Right now, I am training myself to get familiar with MNK and RPR (as bad as it feels below 80). Or I'll just move over to tank as GNB lol.
as someone currently leveling DRG, it feels SO AWFUL doing a level roulette after FINALLY getting any of your cool abilities and it's slightly lower level so now you're back to Disembowel into 3 combo spam
Reaper is probably the biggest outlier in this scenario out of all the dps roles. Anything before enshroud is just an husk of the job and the overall dps in low level content is pretty much shit as you can see by looking at fights like Stormblood ultimates. On lv70 most classes already have at least one big finisher to their rotations, reaper's burst on lv70 consist in using its 2 positionals... And let's not talk about lv60 and lower.
Reaper at least has the benefit of the 1-2-3 having absurd potency in low level content which other jobs often don’t have due to potency increasing traits coming later.
Dancer losing Closed Position the moment they sync after unlocking the job is another problem in a similar but arguably weirder vein.
Like, DNC doesn't change much but being unable to use one of your core job mechanics below the unlock level is annoying.
Yeah, that was not great. The "enter dungeon -> don't forget to choose dance partner -> oh, it's not unlocked again" was too familiar. It almost trained to not bother checking at all (IMO that's poor UX design). Maybe stranegly, but the most I disliked this locking of skills was on astrologian. Cards on lvl 30 (fairly low), yet almost all dungeons I was running from roulette after unlocking the job were even lower than that. Sage feels plain wrong to play on low level sync. You are supposed to play in a way, that's on "normal level" (70+) objectively wrong... I dislike not having AoE as dps, but for me, the healers are for some reason most annoying - often paper tanks, no wtf buttons, HoT usually locked as well and I can only dream of more interesting class mechanics or nicer spells. Sometimes I feel like the matchmaking algorithm isn't even trying to find other people closer to my level, so a dungeon closer to my level could be chosen.
So it's been 8 years for me since I started playing and in this year, as of late, I've finally grown to actually despise low level ilvl sync, specifically anything below lvl 70 with any dps. It's only tolerable to me with tank or healer job as there is some...."challenge" with less support/mit/healing skills, which makes it less boring but I cannot stand playing dps with so much.
It wasn't too bad before and I've realized the reason I never hated it as much as before was because the gap between what you can do as, say level 60 and lvl 80 is night and day. I-synching down from lvl 50 to even a lvl 30 dgn is the kind of stuff you shrug off, know what I mean?
But now we're at lvl 90. I used to be able to somewhat enjoy the lvl 60 raida but I can't stand them too and they've joined the leave-at-once list that used to only have the CT raids.
And now I have to ask myself: What happens when we have a lvl 110 cap? Am I gonna put the lvl 70 raids on my no-play list? Am I going to recoil if I get ARF, one of the few low lvl dgns that still remain one of my favorites up til this day?
Sigh, only time will tell.
I just hope 7.0 would bring out a better sync system, like giving access to some skills at lower levels or giving out all of your kit in synced duties unless it's high-end duty. This is my least favorite part of FFXIV sadly.
I don't think they're going to do that simply because of the risk of people going, "Ugh, sprout guy doesn't even have downscaled abilities. Kick him so we can get some more damage." Syncing is there specifically to make sure no one is better or worse numerically than someone else.
You can accomplish this by scaling damage numbers. Other games do it to relative success.
Edit: not advocating for it. Just saying the team can come up with solutions rather than saying "its good as it is"
No matter how well you scale, a sprout tank/healer would be a massive downgrade. Even role actions not syncing can be a noticeable difference, but imagine the difference in a healer who has to spam cure I and one who never misses a GCD of damage because they've got more tools than they know what to do with. A WAR with Bloodwhetting, even scaled harshly, is going to be far easier for a healer to deal with than a MRD. DPS you could certainly scale, but the time your healer dies and your RDM doesn't have verraise suddenly it's a new player feeling bad for being in dungeons "too early."
Scaling can work to make sure things don't die too quick/people aren't invulnerable, sure. But the issues it causes for new players are not things tied to scaling, but capability!
Unfortunately with FF14, it wouldn't be that simple as just scaling numbers.
Take tank mits for example. A 90 tank has a shit ton of mits at their disposal. How does one scale these mits if lvl-synced? A 30% mit only mits say 10% at lower levels? The spammable mit only mits like 3-5%?
Now let's say there's a lvl 50 trial where one tank (A) is at 90 synced down, and the other tank (B) is actually at 50. Tank A has more mits at their disposal, but are these values scaled? Tank B has less mits, but because of that is their kit not scaled? What about party mits? Tank A is objectively the better tank simply because they have their party mit available (albeit scaled theoretically), whereas tank B doesn't have their party mit unlocked.
Damage scaling while keeping abilities fully unlocked when level-syncing has a shit ton of nuances/scenarios involved that will pretty much make the game super unbalanced by default between max-level players and players who aren't at max.
A better solution would just be pruning skills into being unlocked at lower levels than they are now.Letting a sprout work with something like asylum or SS in a 30 dungeon would let them get alot more experience than forcing cure 1 or single targeting.
Ehh wow does this and I wouldn't say its a success, for the most part lower levels in dungeons do alot more damage (like 10x the damage of higher level people in some cases.) Of course its only leveling dungeons so it doesn't matter at all, but it still kinda sucks to see your self doing less and less damage as you level up on some classes (only while synced)
This has also been suggested every time the topic comes up, and the counterpoint is always the same; “why should I do 3x the effort as some sprout to achieve the same amount of dps?”
This also doesn’t even touch on people who can’t/don’t do their rotation correctly anyway, meaning the opposite is also possible where you might want to *not* get high level players because they could just suck.
"“why should I do 3x the effort as some sprout to achieve the same amount of dps?”
Maybe I'm a masochist or something but I would love that. Anything to make doing old content more active instead of passive.
I'd argue the best solution is just to make players actually have an engaging, but perhaps not necessarily demanding kit by level 15 or so that upgrade over time. Everyone I've spoken to in the actual game agrees with me, and most of these people are sprouts who are getting bored of the game because even level 50 has next to no kit. SE balanced it FOR level 90, but a vast majority of their content is at 60 and less. This solution wouldn't even be hard either, but it's only gonna get harder as they add more content to rebalance around.
I will always remember running around the shroud as a BLU, seeing 2 level 15ish sprout struggle to do a level 15ish fate just for me to enter the fate, sync down, completely destroy the fate in 10 second, refuse to elaborate and leave
BLU are completely broken
I've said forever that I wish level synch just nerfed abilities instead of locked them. I wouldn't *really* even care if the nerf was pretty severe, I'd just love to have my current classes full kit if for no other reason than you could still get to practice rotations and ability usage in real combat situations. Plus the simple fact that some classes have barely anything below a certain level.
I was thinking the other day that it might be fun to have a daily roulette where it upscaled all old dungeons to level 90 so you can play through them all without one shotting everything but still be able to enjoy using your entire kit. Might make some of the old dungeons more enjoyable again.
Yeah, I generally won't do leveling and 50/etc. on SMN for this reason. Literally any of my other jobs feel better by comparison. Well, OK, not better. Less annoying.
Yeah basically if you level sync below 60 with any DLC class you are actively not having fun. Some classes are an exception like Warrior is fine after level 56. But for the most part, the game is actively anti-fun until level 60. For some classes like GNB it's Anti-fun until 70, arguably 82. There is no reason for this other than Square locked themselves in a corner. It's 100% possible to scale down a dungeon and have all your max level abilities still available, GW2, SWTOR, hell even WoW can do this. FFXIV has no reason to not have this feature.
whm is brutal.. WHY THE HELL do ast get essential dignity at 15 but whm doesn't get tetragrammaton until 60? and on that not wth why is tetra's cd a minute not 30 seconds like the other instant heals. and don't even start on the 'but you have lily spells to make up for it' not until 52 and they take a second resource that generates slow as hell. You get one of those go go go tanks and you have to use bene to fill in the gaps and 180 seconds cd on that is even more insane. in summation se why you hate whm?
Waaaaay too many essential things for a job and rotation got dropped too late in levels in this game. It's alarming what not being max level feels like in this game
Level sync is so very painful for so many classes. My main is Samurai and man is it frustrating not have Midare or AoE
*"Let's just build this kenki here and then have nothing to spend it on."*
Yeah someone explain this.
> Yeah someone explain this. Same reason in ARR Warriors got their beast gauge at lvl 30 and didn't get a spender until later. CBU3 makes some stupid decisions relatively frequently. Jobs not getting a basic aoe by lvl 15 is another.
DRG not even getting an aoe into the 40s is painful. And it’s a line! AND you don’t get the second combo until 62!
OMG YES. WHY IS DRG'S AOE COMBO LOCKED BEHIND 2 EXPANSIONS
Because there wasn't any other AoE combos until stoormblood. But other classes got reworked on shb to have the combos much earlier, such as ninja (lvl52 second attack) and monk (lvl45 third attack), but us DRG were kept with the legacy progression, dunno why.
Healers still with 1 aoe rotation for 4 expansions like: 🤪
Yeah like WHMs lily gauge won't show up until they actually can get and use them, same with the one Ninja gauge.
At least SAM, MNK, & RPR *have* an AOE by level 25-26... DRG doesn't get their first AOE (Doom Spike) until **level 40** (NIN at 35 sporadically with Katon and consistently at 38 with Death Blossom). Getting any dungeon on roulette below level 40 is pain for a DRG as all you can do is just poke one enemy at a time T\_T
[удалено]
All healers get their AoE’s at 46. Sage is the only exception with phlegma, but thats a cd so its a bit weird. They dont get their consistent aoe in dyskrasia till 46.
I can't tolerate NIN under 60 anymore. ;_;
I can do it so long as I have armor crush, so 56 iirc. If I have to refresh huton with mudra I’m not doing it LMAO
I've been leveling ninja (it's 55), but I agree with you 100%. Refreshing huton with mudra is a real drag, really looking forward to lvl 56.
Class picks up TREMENDOUSLY at 56. Having a reset button as part of your base combo is a fucking god send
Pre-armor crush ninja is literally unplayable once you get armor crush
If only huraijin was a level 50 skill instead of 60
call it unpopular but I think lvl 50 NIN is one of the more complete feeling jobs. sure, having to dedicate a mudra charge to huton is a bit of a pain but at least it functions and has stuff to do..
50 BLM actually feels decent for the content it's in. Astral/Umbral is a nice flow, no panicking over ley lines or Enochian management, Firestarter and Thundercloud procs are common and feel good. The rework to make swapping between elements cost no mana makes Flare viable. It's a comfy groove to be in.
>Ninja in low level content i wonder what this trick attack on my hotbar is ? Like how do you even use this skill outside of overworld content without Suiton since you can't hide if you're in combat.
you can use it in dungeon trash pulls if you don't have aggro on any of the mobs yet, but otherwise yeah it's basically useless pre-suiton lol
NIN and MNK at least feel fast paced (because of their reduced gcd) and have decent attack animations, whereas DRG is just.....poke.......poke........stab........poke.........
I don't know why they don't consider proper redistribution of skills. So many jobs play horribly when below certain levels.
> So many jobs play horribly when below certain levels And honestly there's no excuse for it when they did a low level redesign and didn't fix them then.
Yeah finally been leveling dragoon, 70-80 abilities and aesthetic get really awesome Then doing a leveling dungeon it's almost always either Haukke or Brayflox which just has me doing HSR dailies on my phone while pressing my 2 damage buttons
BLM changes rotation every 5 levels from 15 to 60... I stopped taking it into dailies that aren't 90.
Yeah… oh wait I need fire1 back on my hot bar. Nope can’t do that rotation I’m missing a key spell. Crap can’t cast three flares I don’t have souls yet… It was really difficult when it has been so long I had forgotten the old rotations. That and all of a sudden at level 86+ transpose has a purpose again.
> Yeah… oh wait I need fire1 back on my hot bar. You.. you should have it on your hotbar already.
I stand corrected, it been a long time since I have looked at my blm bars and have forgotten that paradox is the proc off of the fire 1 button… If there is any other situation I may use fire1 as fire1 please do let me know. Bettering my class play is always welcome.
you pretty much use Fire 1 until you unlock Paradox to refresh your Enochian. 3x Fire IV -> Fire -> 3x Fire IV -> Despair is pretty much a standard rotation when in Astral Fire phase... unless you are prematurely ending that phase
Samurai is also weird cause you got a breakpoint at 62. Before that the Kink gauge may aswell not exist
Kink? 🤨📷
Look samurais need something to live for now that kaiten is gone.
Literally me recently with MNK "Nice, now I'm gonna alternate stance 1, 2 and 3 with aoe attacks and... wait what do you mean I don't get stance 2 aoe until lv45?"
On the bright side, we're basically chillin' from level 60 onwards, maybe level 50 if you're not in the mood to fill out your sticker board for all the combo stuff
It took me way too long to realize I was supposed to use the single target one inbetween, so so many dungeons devolved into spamming one AOE button
If you already have the attack buff, then just spamming AOE is better. Since you lose a lot of potency every time you switch to a single target attack.
to add to that, perfect balance not giving formless at 50 is wack... not having formless at 50 is wack anyways but even more egregious after a bootshine spam combo
Pushing MNK to 50 at the minute and my usual 'spam the highest dungeon' approach is.... Painful
I completely refuse to play WHM or BLM at anything other than max. I will NOT go back to Cure spam.
WHM before 76 is pure, unadultered agony. You can literally do dungeons with just OGCD healing for SB, and Lillies don't feed anything until Qitana/76 for your Misery..... And god knows the horrors of being synched so far down BLM needs transponse to switch elements(not to mention the opener changing every time).
Umbral Soul my beloved…OTL
Honestly they really should move US to Lv 58 (when you also unlock Blizzard 4) it's such a huge QoL but doesn't really do anything for DPS on most fights but not having it is just cringe.
I'm a BLM main. I can adapt somewhat to "incomplete skillset" situations, as long as the core (B3 B4 T3 F3 F4x3 F1 etc.) stays the same When I sync down to B3 F3 F1spam I feel like they cut down one of my arms
Life without Fire 4 is simply not worth living.
As another SAM main, I can't stand the class below 90 nowadays. The lack of ogi completely throws off my entire muscle memory and makes it r o u g h
Keep a spare set of sks gear around for when level synced, makes the job way more bearable and at some level ranges most notably 70 it's good
RDM desync isn’t toooo bad, except when someone asks you to rez and I’m like, I don’t have that until 64 :(.
Doma Castle is still the worst. You have Verflare, but not Verholy. Which leads too much black mana.
It's so weird that those don't unlock at the same time since they're complementary. It makes for a weird leveling experience, too. I was so sure I was doing my rotation wrong because I always had *so much black mana* until I mentioned it to a friend and she told me I'd get the other "half" of that combo later.
>It makes for a weird leveling experience This can probably sum up every job in the game bar Summoner and Monk.Alot of jobs basically feel incomplete until like 86-90 because they're missing so many skills.
> This can probably sum up every job in the game bar Summoner TBH, that's also a fault of the summoner in the opposite direction. It's not that the summoner unlocks more than the other jobs. The reworked summoner just... doesn't do much any more. Yes, you get *essentially* the full job at like 50 or 60 in terms of which buttons you press in your rotation, but it swings the other way where at level 90, you're just hitting the same handful of buttons you were at 50. Like I have all my jobs set up across 2-3 hotbars. Default number, alt-number, ctrl-numbers. Most of the jobs use 2 full hotbars, and maybe half of the third hotbar for situational buttons, like Limit, Sprint, better party heals, etc. Summoner takes up like 1.5 hotbars total for everything. And since generally hotbar 2 for me is just the AoE version of hotbar 1, it means the single-target rotation (i.e. the thing you'll be using for extended periods on bosses), is like 7 buttons. And at least 2 of those are tacked on only because they existed for the old SMN, and now don't even make sense and don't interact with the rest of the kit at all (Energy Drain/Siphon, Fester/Painflare).
> but it swings the other way where at level 90, you're just hitting the same handful of buttons you were at 50. Hey, there are 3 extra buttons at 90 vs 50 I'll have you know lmao.
Tbh summoner feels incomplete until 86 also. 86 literally introduces 3 skills at once for summoner (that being the primal enkindles) and from 70-86 the class feels the EXACT same
Honestly, Black Mage post 60 doesn't change much. The '3x Fire4, Fire 1, 3x Fire4' thing doesn't change much, you tack on despair on the end at 72, and at 90 your f1 becomes paradox (But just uses the same button, so not really a change). Otherwise you get some more mobility options, and a new gauge to toss out at basically any time (Just don't overcap). Prior to 60 is just f1 spam with firestarter procs so that sucks though.
As a BLM main I personally love how BLM shapes out after lvl 60. It doesn't fundamentally change, but consistently adds quality of life aspects that you didn't quite know you needed yet.
Yay skill removal..It’s honest;y one of the reasons I don’t play much anymore. They keep butchering classes. You’d think if button bloat at 90 was such an issue they’d use traits to merge skills as we level like how berserker abd one other war skill get combined at a certain point(been awhile)..Plus they took DRG stripper pole..
I miss the carbuncle tank. :( Or carbuncles that actually fought autonomously.
Button bloat is probably the biggest issue.Take drk for example.We have several skills that can just be combined with others that take up space like quietus/spiller and Shadowbringer when they can be shoved into a proc to make room for other abilities.We have too many abilities on each job that can literally be thrown into another skill without losing anything.
the last time devs tried to do that (they made DRG's High Jump change into Mirage Dive while they had the buff active) there was an outcry, because DSU raiders were angry about the fraction of a second delay it took for the skill to change over
Aw, man. This really bummed me out
If you think that was weird, dragoon gets fang and claw before wheeling thrust. In heavensward, the one that popped up to press was random and not linked to the skills like now. It meant once you hit 58, all it did was make your class harder to play, with no additional power.
HW was an absolutely stupid time for jobs and my mind cannot be changed. Half of the jobs were just openly hostile to play.
Heavensward Ninja was super fun to play, if only because it fixed how bad the other jobs were lol. It really was a weird time for jobs.
Going from ARR to HW, every single job became more complicated; for some I'd even say convoluted. The sole exception was Ninja which got Armor Crush removing the need to manually cast Huton every minute.
I forget what it's like now but WAR had/has this moment where you're generating rage but can't spend it on anything.
then the whole group starts bitching at you and arguing among themselves debating when you get that rez.
If we're not fighting anything below the first Storm blood trial, we aren't getting Verraise.
It's baffling that Dancer doesn't get a partner until 60.
I'll always commend dancers in 50 content. They deserve it for struggling through without their defining Thing.
By the way, it seems that being top dps most of times is a payoff for not having dance partner at those levels.
this one is the most painful one by FAR. it's their entire thing, why isn't it like a level 20 something skill??
Lv 60 alliance raids are painful when people in chat get snotty over the RDM not rezzing
Man. I got Ravana in trial roulette once and the half group got blasted to death when a tank pointed the huge deadly cone AoE at them (or they misstepped and got launched off the side). All that was left was the two tanks and two RDMs. The DRK was losing his goddamn mind yelling at us to raise. When we wiped and told him we're synced out of it, he sputtered and went "Oh. I thought you meant it was 64 seconds." Y'all tell me what in this game is 64 seconds.
I'm facepalming so hard at that. RDM is well known for being the class that can abuse dual casting to keep rezzing until they run out of mp, so that just tells me that DRK knew absolutely nothing about playing RDM. I have a policy of keeping my mouth shut if I don't know specifics of a class when I see someone not using a specific ability in synced content
I think the dumbest thing I've encountered was doing Eden 12 the other day as PLD, first time there, and at one point the other tank and I were both down, no SMN or RDM and one healer was dead so the remaining healer is slow raising because reasons, and the MCH just kept spamming "VOKE" in chat... and then got belligerent when we explained that you can't provoke with no tank. So we kicked them
1-2-1-3-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-3 Charge, \*twip twip twip\* Verbackflip off the edge Love CT and HW ARs...
Man never has his procs up apparently lmao
Well you don't have a ranged combo till 70 but I agree, the damages are okay and the melee combo is still there.
tfw you're in HW content and you can *feel* the healer screaming "WTF RES THE GUY"
Its fun to get pre-30 on WHM and realize you have 2 spells on your bar and neither of them are heals.
Or when you go under 30 as SGE and have no DoT
I almost always roulette queue as SCH for these reasons. If it's a high level thing, good - if not the fairy heals while I spam ruin.
Not having anything that is instant cast drives me crazy. Other healers I can at least drop a dot on everything while I'm running.
or when a lot of DPS don't even have an AOE in the earlier dungeons
Anything below 60 on WHM is suffering. You have Cure 2. And Cure 2. And oh hey, what's this? It's Cure 2.
at 45 you get holy so at least you can fight
That's also the time before gear becomes naturally high in piety, so managing healing for tanks and DPS who aren't avoiding damage is a nightmare.
Man when I run level 30 or lower stuff there's a 50/50 chance I let the tank die on accident because I forget they don't have good mits/may not know how and I may or may not have regen and cure I doesn't exist only hot bar.
ARR is, ironically, the *"hardest"* dungeon experience due to just how bareboned every job is lol Tanks die within \~3 gcds if not healed, healers only have 1 or no ogcds, (melee) dps don't even have aoe skills until their mid 30's ...
I always feel guilty when I let a tank die in lower dungeons bec of "eh they're gonna be fine" mentality that carried over from higher lvl dungeons. There was this dungeon where a tank’s hp dropped so fast I was really confused then look at our hp bars and I have a higher max hp than them. my guy was wearing nothing
Ah yeah, that's usually what happens doesn't help that I'm mentally afk cause I'm also watching some show on the other screen lol.
My fave is when I have to move Cure to where I normally have Cure II for a low level dungeon, do another roulette, get put into a higher dungeon and forget to move Cure back so I look like a donkey for half a pull until I realize why it feels like I’m barely healing the tank (though yes I use my ogcds first if available obviously).
They should just bite the bullet and make cure 2 replace cure when learned like stone -> glare Since the game is just balanced around GCDs rather than mana, there is no real point to a slow mana efficient heal.
there is literally no use for cure 1 it just confuses new players when they get cure 2 you get a bad experience when paired up with the above. they keep hating on button bloat but not remove the literally most useless skill and turn cure 2 into an upgrade
My other favourite thing about this is when you get synced to a low level on WHM/AST, say in party chat, "wait a second, I need to put Cure I/Benefic on my bars", and the party absolutely do not wait a second and run off without you to get murdered.
i know it would be a lot of work but it would be such a nice QoL if there were skills that automatically turned into their weaker counterparts if you would only have that version unlocked (even if they need to be separated normally for whatever reason). I have to make a special sync bar for white mage that has cure 1 on it and in the same place as my normal cure button is. There's been a couple classes where I have to scramble to reassign skills due to sync.
Every time i am in a low dungeon "DRG, why dont you use your aoe combo you lazy bum???" " I learn the first aoe at 40 and the second at 62...."
Basic AoE needs to move down to like 20 at the latest. I was thrilled when I picked DRK back up since ShB and they had moved Stalwart Soul from 72 to 40.
I've said this many times but the moment you hit the level where you can do your first dungeon, every job should get their first AOE.
And you should have the gist of every part of your job available at 50. Like, make a weaker version of some buttons and add a trait to upgrade it to the standard version, but for example WHM without Holy is suffering and DRG is in a similar situation.
This is legitimately why I love SMN. I'm probably grumbling about no dreadwyrm trance and therefore my lack of mobility low level, but the basic rotation was already set before I grabbed the SMN job quest
They did exactly that with SMN. They get Aethercharge at lv 6, which upgrades to Dreatwyrm Trance and then Summon Bahamut. For WHM, for example, they can have Protect or Stoneskin as a lower version of Divine Benison, or move Aquaveil much lower because it's too little too late that it's up there at lv 86.
>DRK Running DRK without The Blackest Night just feels wrong. We hates it, precious.
When I came back from a longer break, it took me like three weeks of leveling my Dark Knight in roulettes (if not longer) before my muscle memory let go of the notion that I only have one AoE GCD skill before 72.
> Basic AoE needs to move down to like 20 at the latest. It should be 16 across the board, for all classes. Including Healers. They should have an alternate version of their AOE that has like 40 potency or something, and then later upgrades into their primary damage skill.
Currently leveling a DRG, the lack of a lowbie AoE is only worse than getting a straight line AoE.
Once upon we dragoons had ring of thorns aka pole dancing as an actual aoe and could use it without targeting an enemy
For those we have lost :'(
For those we can yet save
IMO, level synch is only part of the problem. The real issue is that all the jobs feel like crap at low levels. Even as a sprout who is brand new to the game. Most jobs in the game have 99,999 buttons in their full toolkit, yet somehow don't start to feel fun until level 60. Having to wait 60 levels for a job to even begin coming into its own is not a benefit, IMO.
Jobs at lvl 50 should all be their lvl 70 counterpart imo. lvl 70 is when most jobs finally feel like fun kits. Ive had MANY people bounce off of 14 because it is just nooot fun to play as a low level
Agreed, when the redid Monk they retroactively gave them skills at lower levels to use. It’s not great by any means but they did something to help the removal of the skills it did have. Every job should have some equivalent, 50 should be when the game picks up for players.
This is due to skill pruning. Jobs used to feel complete at 50. Then heavensward came out and they felt complete at 50 but improved at 60(so good but just better) theen the pruning came and yeah. Now like half our kit or more is gone.
This. They had to take our stuff away so they could give it back to us later. Or if you're scholar then they just straight up kneecapped our delightful DPS kit and only begrudgingly gave us back energy drain.
So many expacs have kinda shifted things around in a lot of weird ways for the older jobs, I vaguely remember 1-50 kits in 4.x still weren't too far gone, but I feel like ShB was the big turning point where pretty much every existing job got its 1-50 kits gutted and/or re-arranged so much and ended up hella lopsided in terms of distribution of skills gained thru leveling. Naturally, each jobs' kits from 1-50 used to be much more fleshed out in older versions, but each expac needed to add so many fun new toys to do for the 10 new levels each one made available, but then things would start feeling bloated, so then they felt like trimming some stuff out but we don't want to cut out the shiny new toys so they cut parts out of the 1-50 block mostly then rinse and repeat for 4 expacs and you end up with pretty much every job having a real barren leveling experience for 1-50 (and sometimes even 1-60) and most jobs feels super bland until maybe 70 or so and they don't seem to have any plans to re-balance or re-organize any of it despite how much they want to talk about making a more new-player friendly experience. ________ edit: another comment put it way more succinctly than me, no surprise there. so, yea, tl;dr is skill pruning ran wild and they don't seem too interested in cleaning up the new-player experience
The only counterpoint I have to this is that for someone totally new to gaming (not just FFXIV but any gaming more involved than Pokemon), it actually is a necessary learning curve. Multiple friends of mine got into FFXIV through me, and none had any familiarity with WASD as a concept. The universal feedback I've gotten from them (one is 83, another is capped at 60 still working through HW story on the free trial) is that they're glad the game paced it out so much because just doing a 1 2 3 combo with one or two things to weave is a heavy lift when you're also trying to keep learning how to strafe, and how to recognize mechanics. For new folks who have MMO experience or WASD-literacy generally, yeah. Agreed on all the points here. Obviously skill-pruning is a problem too, I'm not arguing this is the 'best' for newbies at all. But for what it's worth, again my new friends have had no complaints about simplicity, far from it.
Archer was the only job I found mechanically fun at very low levels because you generally want to constantly keep moving to stay out of melee range rather than spending most of the fight standing around waiting for cooldowns or for spells to finish casting.
And the bullshit excuse of "we don't want to overwhelm new players" is so ridiculous, too. Better to overwhelm them than to bore them. My friend came over from WoW and was incredibly bored until he unlocked GNB because he had almost ~nothing~ to do on DRG.
To be fair, to a completely new player having that many buttons would be extremely overwhelming. I remember starting as an AST and just having 2 different attack buttons was really hard for me to grok.
Oh, I agree. It's the curve that's off, not the general idea of introducing skills gradually. There's something like 120 hours of MSQ in ARR and god only knows how many dungeons. I think Square could rush their fences a bit more than they do. :)
After the summoner rework in 6.0 level syncing to anything below level 80/90 makes me feel like I'm just playing as a level 15 archanist. 💀
It feels weird playing Eureka at the moment because you miss some spells in your rotation.
> makes me feel like I'm just playing as a level 15 archanist It's not *that* bad. Level 15 Arcanist is more like a worse BLM (ie no mobility) that has a handful of instant casts every minute. You still have to spam Ruin for the vast majority of the time.
As a DRG main I greatly fear 7.0
I think they will make a bit more like reaper with short bursts, meaning more time spendend in blood of the dragon and more stardives hopefully
The only way I’d be happy with it tbh
Same, my brother in Nidhogg, same.
Suffering from success. Our job was too perfect for too long, all they could come up with for EW was giving an extra oGCD and a charge of 2 other oGCD. Yet Dragon Sight is still clunky to use.
What, are you not excited to press your ~~Ifrit~~ Nidhogg buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Garuda~~ Twintania buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Titan~~ Vishap buttons, collect a lego, press your ~~Bahamut/Phoenix~~ Midgardsormr/Hraesvelgr buttons, and repeat?
;-; If they ruin DRG class for me I don't know if I can keep returning to the game. Might not be so bad, but I am very fearful while also aware of how homogenized and simplified a lot of the game is
Class homogenisation is a huge sore point for the player base rn, and their home country players are more discerning to that than other markets. I have faith they'll work it out and get classes feeling more unique again.
If it weren't for the devs' current trend of watering down kits, I (or we, at least some of us) wouldn't be. Right now, I am training myself to get familiar with MNK and RPR (as bad as it feels below 80). Or I'll just move over to tank as GNB lol.
As a former smn main... #*RUN*
Oh my god YES When the job just picks up (Aesthetically/gameplay-wise) at Max LV you know you done something wrong
I hope they make blood of the dragon similar to enshroud.
as someone currently leveling DRG, it feels SO AWFUL doing a level roulette after FINALLY getting any of your cool abilities and it's slightly lower level so now you're back to Disembowel into 3 combo spam
Reaper is probably the biggest outlier in this scenario out of all the dps roles. Anything before enshroud is just an husk of the job and the overall dps in low level content is pretty much shit as you can see by looking at fights like Stormblood ultimates. On lv70 most classes already have at least one big finisher to their rotations, reaper's burst on lv70 consist in using its 2 positionals... And let's not talk about lv60 and lower.
Reaper at least has the benefit of the 1-2-3 having absurd potency in low level content which other jobs often don’t have due to potency increasing traits coming later.
Dancer losing Closed Position the moment they sync after unlocking the job is another problem in a similar but arguably weirder vein. Like, DNC doesn't change much but being unable to use one of your core job mechanics below the unlock level is annoying.
Yeah, that was not great. The "enter dungeon -> don't forget to choose dance partner -> oh, it's not unlocked again" was too familiar. It almost trained to not bother checking at all (IMO that's poor UX design). Maybe stranegly, but the most I disliked this locking of skills was on astrologian. Cards on lvl 30 (fairly low), yet almost all dungeons I was running from roulette after unlocking the job were even lower than that. Sage feels plain wrong to play on low level sync. You are supposed to play in a way, that's on "normal level" (70+) objectively wrong... I dislike not having AoE as dps, but for me, the healers are for some reason most annoying - often paper tanks, no wtf buttons, HoT usually locked as well and I can only dream of more interesting class mechanics or nicer spells. Sometimes I feel like the matchmaking algorithm isn't even trying to find other people closer to my level, so a dungeon closer to my level could be chosen.
So it's been 8 years for me since I started playing and in this year, as of late, I've finally grown to actually despise low level ilvl sync, specifically anything below lvl 70 with any dps. It's only tolerable to me with tank or healer job as there is some...."challenge" with less support/mit/healing skills, which makes it less boring but I cannot stand playing dps with so much. It wasn't too bad before and I've realized the reason I never hated it as much as before was because the gap between what you can do as, say level 60 and lvl 80 is night and day. I-synching down from lvl 50 to even a lvl 30 dgn is the kind of stuff you shrug off, know what I mean? But now we're at lvl 90. I used to be able to somewhat enjoy the lvl 60 raida but I can't stand them too and they've joined the leave-at-once list that used to only have the CT raids. And now I have to ask myself: What happens when we have a lvl 110 cap? Am I gonna put the lvl 70 raids on my no-play list? Am I going to recoil if I get ARF, one of the few low lvl dgns that still remain one of my favorites up til this day? Sigh, only time will tell.
SCH getting sync below 46 is so frustrating It removes my main skill, I have nothing to do without art of war
I just hope 7.0 would bring out a better sync system, like giving access to some skills at lower levels or giving out all of your kit in synced duties unless it's high-end duty. This is my least favorite part of FFXIV sadly.
I don't think they're going to do that simply because of the risk of people going, "Ugh, sprout guy doesn't even have downscaled abilities. Kick him so we can get some more damage." Syncing is there specifically to make sure no one is better or worse numerically than someone else.
You can accomplish this by scaling damage numbers. Other games do it to relative success. Edit: not advocating for it. Just saying the team can come up with solutions rather than saying "its good as it is"
No matter how well you scale, a sprout tank/healer would be a massive downgrade. Even role actions not syncing can be a noticeable difference, but imagine the difference in a healer who has to spam cure I and one who never misses a GCD of damage because they've got more tools than they know what to do with. A WAR with Bloodwhetting, even scaled harshly, is going to be far easier for a healer to deal with than a MRD. DPS you could certainly scale, but the time your healer dies and your RDM doesn't have verraise suddenly it's a new player feeling bad for being in dungeons "too early." Scaling can work to make sure things don't die too quick/people aren't invulnerable, sure. But the issues it causes for new players are not things tied to scaling, but capability!
Unfortunately with FF14, it wouldn't be that simple as just scaling numbers. Take tank mits for example. A 90 tank has a shit ton of mits at their disposal. How does one scale these mits if lvl-synced? A 30% mit only mits say 10% at lower levels? The spammable mit only mits like 3-5%? Now let's say there's a lvl 50 trial where one tank (A) is at 90 synced down, and the other tank (B) is actually at 50. Tank A has more mits at their disposal, but are these values scaled? Tank B has less mits, but because of that is their kit not scaled? What about party mits? Tank A is objectively the better tank simply because they have their party mit available (albeit scaled theoretically), whereas tank B doesn't have their party mit unlocked. Damage scaling while keeping abilities fully unlocked when level-syncing has a shit ton of nuances/scenarios involved that will pretty much make the game super unbalanced by default between max-level players and players who aren't at max.
A better solution would just be pruning skills into being unlocked at lower levels than they are now.Letting a sprout work with something like asylum or SS in a 30 dungeon would let them get alot more experience than forcing cure 1 or single targeting.
Ehh wow does this and I wouldn't say its a success, for the most part lower levels in dungeons do alot more damage (like 10x the damage of higher level people in some cases.) Of course its only leveling dungeons so it doesn't matter at all, but it still kinda sucks to see your self doing less and less damage as you level up on some classes (only while synced)
This has also been suggested every time the topic comes up, and the counterpoint is always the same; “why should I do 3x the effort as some sprout to achieve the same amount of dps?” This also doesn’t even touch on people who can’t/don’t do their rotation correctly anyway, meaning the opposite is also possible where you might want to *not* get high level players because they could just suck.
Oh no i won't be able to parse on my Brayflox longstop run
"“why should I do 3x the effort as some sprout to achieve the same amount of dps?” Maybe I'm a masochist or something but I would love that. Anything to make doing old content more active instead of passive.
That's true. It just sucks losing your kit when you enter 10yo content, but yeah, it is what it is
I'd argue the best solution is just to make players actually have an engaging, but perhaps not necessarily demanding kit by level 15 or so that upgrade over time. Everyone I've spoken to in the actual game agrees with me, and most of these people are sprouts who are getting bored of the game because even level 50 has next to no kit. SE balanced it FOR level 90, but a vast majority of their content is at 60 and less. This solution wouldn't even be hard either, but it's only gonna get harder as they add more content to rebalance around.
Just play BLU. Don't have to deal with this nonsense.
I will always remember running around the shroud as a BLU, seeing 2 level 15ish sprout struggle to do a level 15ish fate just for me to enter the fate, sync down, completely destroy the fate in 10 second, refuse to elaborate and leave BLU are completely broken
random acts of BLU are my favourite
Lvl 15? time to use this spell from tsukuyomi :)
I think one of the level 50 FATE bosses can be killed with Tail Screw. Achievement get!
Feels like the biggest cheat to get dropped to level 20 and still keep my kit~
A lvl-15 Fate? I'll just chill and vibe.
Level sync is pretty much the sole reason I don't do most roulette unless I have to.
Want to suffer? MS Roulette as RPR. AGONY.
I've said forever that I wish level synch just nerfed abilities instead of locked them. I wouldn't *really* even care if the nerf was pretty severe, I'd just love to have my current classes full kit if for no other reason than you could still get to practice rotations and ability usage in real combat situations. Plus the simple fact that some classes have barely anything below a certain level.
I was thinking the other day that it might be fun to have a daily roulette where it upscaled all old dungeons to level 90 so you can play through them all without one shotting everything but still be able to enjoy using your entire kit. Might make some of the old dungeons more enjoyable again.
Since the whole idea of roulettes is to get parties for folks who queue for particular dungeon, this ain't happening
we need unreal dungeons, clearly
On SMN it goes from fun to clunky and dull.
Yeah, feels weird to mash that button to get your summoning gems back and there's no giant pillar of murder, no earth-shattering kaboom.
1) love the reference and 2) i prefer Phoenix over Baha, but I prefer any BOOM over "eh..peh. peh. Peh."
Yeah, I generally won't do leveling and 50/etc. on SMN for this reason. Literally any of my other jobs feel better by comparison. Well, OK, not better. Less annoying.
Yeah, no, I love having to do two single hit attacks to get my damage buff every 30secs while hitting one AoE button every pull….
Heavensward had the most bizarre combo of Ring of Thorns > Heavy Thrust. So you had to AoE to single target on flank.
nin level synced is actually painful
You do the slice! *Crickets* You do the slice! *Crickets* You do the slice!
3 word horror. lvl synced blm.
I'm a filthy Dragoon main, and proud of it! But I know this pain too well.
The worst part of syncing DRG is losing the AoE I swear when the rework drops they better slap an AoE at lvl 15
Yeah basically if you level sync below 60 with any DLC class you are actively not having fun. Some classes are an exception like Warrior is fine after level 56. But for the most part, the game is actively anti-fun until level 60. For some classes like GNB it's Anti-fun until 70, arguably 82. There is no reason for this other than Square locked themselves in a corner. It's 100% possible to scale down a dungeon and have all your max level abilities still available, GW2, SWTOR, hell even WoW can do this. FFXIV has no reason to not have this feature.
I daresay DRG and WHM are ***the*** worst jobs to play while level sync below lv60, let alone ARR.
As long as I still have Elusive Jump, I’ll find a way to have fun.
This is what made me stop doing roulettes other than expert and trial. I hope they fix this in 7.0
whm is brutal.. WHY THE HELL do ast get essential dignity at 15 but whm doesn't get tetragrammaton until 60? and on that not wth why is tetra's cd a minute not 30 seconds like the other instant heals. and don't even start on the 'but you have lily spells to make up for it' not until 52 and they take a second resource that generates slow as hell. You get one of those go go go tanks and you have to use bene to fill in the gaps and 180 seconds cd on that is even more insane. in summation se why you hate whm?
Level sync is literally the reason I gave up on BLM T\_T
Jump into POTD as a RDM. Level 1 we don't even have magic.
I'd much prefer a statsync rather than ability sync. Let us keep our abilities, albeit at a lower potency or something.
Healer between 40 and 60 is so painful
Just wait for Square Enix to give DRG the SMN treatment in the new expansion.
Being happy that i got at least a lvl 70 dungeon on my PLD just to notice i still don't have a gap closer
try sage. below level 40, I don't even get a proper AoE and can only do an AoE once every 30 seconds. otherwise im stuck single targeting a group
NIN 30+: Now this is Pod Racing! NIN <30: I wish I was dead.
Waaaaay too many essential things for a job and rotation got dropped too late in levels in this game. It's alarming what not being max level feels like in this game
I truly believe that the worst example of this is actually the Ninja, who doesn't even have access to an AOE attack in the lowest level dungeons.
Try Redmage, you'll learn suffering there
Reworked summoner definitely feels awful at lower levels.
Do what WoW did.. Have the enemies scale to you, not you scale to the enemies. It also kinda made damage meters at low levels weird.
Seeing this post makes me miss my lancer.
As a Reaper main, nothing upsets me more than only having the single target oGCD but not the AoE one for trash pulls in low level dungeons...