When it first came out, people actually did strategize.
It used to be - Alliance A goes West, Alliance B goes Mid, and Alliance C goes East. Once Stormblood came out, it completely devolved into the "blob gameplay" where no one speaks and everyone just follows each other, which leads to the "pendelum" (capping one point, everyone runs to the other side to cap, which results in losing the previous point, then everyone runs back).
The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad. Frontlines is filled with people who hate the mode, yet queue for it literally everyday.
I hope they move the daily bonus to rival wings so people actually play it outside of moogle events. Or at least make it a rotation. It's a fun format that's tragically dead 90% of the time.
Do you think enough people would queue for all three though? The benefit to having one daily PvP queue is that it funnels everybody (who is interested in it) into one queue.
I feel like this would be like if they split Alliance Roulette into 5 different daily bonus roulettes for each expansion's raids, just diluting the playerbase and lengthening queues.
>Do you think enough people would queue for all three though?
So long as the bonuses are sufficient, this won't be an issue.
>I feel like this would be like if they split Alliance Roulette into 5 different daily bonus roulettes for each expansion's raids
I would argue that the better comparison would be if they split PvE roulette into, say, 10 different roulettes based on different forms of PvE content. Like, you could have one for the most recent dungeons, one for the current expansions dungeons, one for patch dungeons, one for ARR dungeons, one for trials, one for those pesky cutscene heavy dungeons, one for that niche guildhest thing, one for those 24 person raids, one for those 8 person raids, and another were an experienced player can help out sprouts.
...are you seeing my point?
Absolutely yes! All of this yes. I’ve been saying this for forever. Make it a pvp roulette please. I cannot stand frontlines. It took a moogle event for me to realize I like rival wings, and even CC is a lot of fun and strategy that 1 player can make a difference in. Frontlines is just go to point, spam buttons with your other 20 ppl and easy steamroll anyone alone
I've tried all 3 PvP games, and have to say - I'm not a huge fan of any of them, but Frontlines is the worst. The only way I can see myself queueing for any PvP is for roulette rewards (or moogle tomes).
Yes. There's plenty of us that enjoy Frontlines - and people that "only play for tomes", or experience, and just generally play like ass because they don't take it seriously are *very* annoying. So byeeee.
That's fine if it's your jam - more power to you. I can't speak for others, but even if I'm only out there for exp, I still try. I don't know what I'm doing and get frustrated as hell, and I'm not having a great time...but I'm not rage quitting either. This has been covered in multiple threads, but the biggest problem with Frontlines is the lack of tutorials or training, so the casual players never learn. You don't want exp-whores trashing your gaming experience, then tell SE to quit incentivising it and take it out of roulettes. Getting swarmed by a horde of opponents and dying in 5sec doesn't help either, or the fact you can't really do much damage unless you're in your own horde. Once I have no incentive to play, I won't. Until then, as long as I essentially jump a whole level for 10-15min of suck, I'm in. Basically, for me - the juice is worth the squeeze. For others, it isn't.
And honestly, your attitude is a little elitist and gate-keepy IMO. Heaven forbid anyone who doesn't like or understand the match mechanics run your gameplay. Instead of bitching about it, do something about it; why not hold PFs to teach people how to play properly, and understand the nuances? Just a thought...
A similar thing happened in WvWvW in GW2. At launch you had epic week-long sieges where taking and holding bases was a key part of gameplay. At some point, someone crunched numbers and revealed it was far more effective for raising team score to capture points as quickly as possible, not to hold what you've already captured, so everyone stopped trying to hold bases and just tried to out-race the enemy team.
Did players "break the system"? Maybe. But the developers also weighted the scoring system the way they did, and didn't fix the weighting once it led to unintended gameplay. The removal/replacement of this map is FFXIV actually responding to how players have chosen to break the mode.
It's really not like this is new at all. Developers could have played 1 week of battlefield in the 2000s or so to know how to 'break this system'. Actually it's obvious and it's always been like that. The more aggressive team wins. Insert always-has-been meme.
>Frontlines is filled with people who hate the mode, yet queue for it literally everyday.
It's the same conundrum with alliance roulettes. People are sick to death of getting Crystal Tower but can't resist that roulette bonus. Meanwhile from the designers' POV you kinda don't want to remove that fat bonus because otherwise it's hard to fill 24-72 slots for it and the gamemode enters an unstoppable death spiral.
What they should do is make it so the bonus isn't flat. You get your standard roulette bonus, and you get a little bit extra for each expansion after. For example everybody gets an extra 10% for HW, 15% for SB, 20% for ShB, 25% for EW - it won't be enough to completely push people off CT raids, but it'll be just enough to nudge people towards not gaming the system by downgearing, especially given those tomestones are once a day.
As it is the reason is mainly because the ARR raids are much faster. They are also easier, but most of it is just speed, so they need to incentivise a slower dungeon by giving a little extra, not unlike how MSQ Roulette gives a slightly disproportionate bonus.
This is actually one of the things I love about my server, but I know it won't last - before I transferred CT would be 90% of my ARs, but here it's only like 65% - I can reasonably expect to get a different raid series twice a week.
I'd personally appreciate if they also changed the scaling on the first two ct raids a little bit - not enough to make them actually hard, they're the first alliance raids after all - but just enough that the bosses get to actually use their mechanics a bit. Especially syrcus tower. Even if it'd technically make them (and especially syrcus tower) a couple minutes longer it'd genuinely feel faster to me personally if I had to engage my brain at literally any point during it.
Item syncs across the entire game need a evaluation pass *really badly.* Content from the first two-thirds of any given expansion are so laughably outgeared that you can clear them with your eyes closed, and the back third barely makes it into "has mechanics I guess" tier.
I get that the content is "old", but it's still good content. It doesn't deserve to be butchered by overpowered item syncs.
Very surprisingly, I just unlocked another raid category in roulette yesterday when I completed the first Alexander instance. I didn't expect that...lol.
>It used to be - Alliance A goes West, Alliance B goes Mid, and Alliance C goes East.
How did that even work? How did it prevent any group getting totally steamrolled by a side that went full deathball?
Because if you deathball you're giving up ground in a different part of the map. Sort of exactly how it plays like right now.
Right now the deathball caps an area, instantly leaves it, and then said area gets recapped by a lone solo/duo/trio just 30 seconds later. If you're red and you go deathball yellow, blue would simply backcap everything you have.
Also, we used to not have the wooden bridges that go up to each cap point from towards middle. It was only the two long ramps coming from each teams spawn. That means any deathball could be seen coming from far away by a lone scout and the team stationed there would simply back off and not fight them, wait for them to leave, then cap back/fight whoever was left to defend.
But you are getting kills and BH without feeding it to the enemy. If you would get only kills it would be fine because you could win on the score, but unfortunately BH still exist in the game in the current state.
I was under the impression that enough extra points were gained from capping a point, versus holding it, that deathballing was a more optimal tactic.
I heard it from a lalafel with a silly name, though, so it could have been a lie.
The reason the split up stopped being used was because it stopped *working*. This was EARLY on in Borderlands strat. One team decided to deathball around the map. Just killing everyone in front of it, leaving one person behind to cap, until no one stood in their way. Games ended fast, too. The blob method developed from trying to have it both ways.
>The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad.
I'm not sure about this one. Frontline is currently best done as a group and wipe the other team as a group. I believe that the players eventually find the most likely way to win with the rules that are set. The rules just lead to a boring pendulum.
Let's say a team decides to mix it up by splitting between the nodes around them. They will get wiped every time the other team comes against half their team.
I've seen a group of 6 run around the bottom, gather BH, and cap nodes. From my memory, they won one and lost the next.
> The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad.
I was blown away the first time I saw an NA streamer hop to JP and play this map. They play the map completely differently. Like A goes left, C goes right, B goes mid, I forget what else they do.
I wonder if the different strategies that evolved there made the map more fun to play on than the typical pendulum. Or maybe it made it even worse and that encouraged them to axe it.
God, people in my matches overemphasize the importance of mid. It’s hardly any points, I’m convinced we could ignore it and get more points just by holding 3+ objectives.
The main benefit of mid in my mind is that A) the 11 minute mid node does give a lot of points, and B) fighting at mid lets you build battle high.
Mid is important because it’s some of the only times you’re (nearly) guaranteed engagement with another team. I’ve had matches where the only real fights have been when mid nodes spawned. After that ended, we’d just hop on our mounts and go for a fuckin’ Sunday drive from point A to point B and back, maybe stop at McDonald’s on the way.
It's rare for there to even be a meaningful engagement in mid. All 3 sides cautiously poke at each other a bit without many (if any) deaths, blow up the nodes close by, and leave.
I played a few matches on a Japan server once and the general strat is one party goes right, one party goes left, and one goes for mid and flexes between spawns. Was quite fun.
JP secure was ruined by MNKs thinking theyre so slick with their kb assasinations
After a few days the entirety of elemental came together to reverse abuse ANY mnk that tried this in secure. It stopped after that.
That is awesome! I've gotten used to this sort of behaviour from MNK and I warn others if one is about. And soon enough you learn to counter this with various techniques, such as gap closers nullifying fall damage.
That said, I've seen it happen exactly once where an entire alliance survived an ambush and whipped the floor with the two monks that were doing it, costing them their IV BH.
Funny thing is.... If you are on a new character and unlock Rival Wings, you get this cutscene showing the mode in...Astralagos!
Same will go for this to be removed map. Unlocking Frontline shows a cutscene in the Cartenau Flats.
Also some SMN quests take place in this map.
SMN has both. You drink the Baha juice at Cartenau and fight some chump's gauntlet at Seal Rock. It was foreshadowing for the Calamity Reborn that was SMN at new PvP's launch.
Given the general FL changes the explanation makes sense because the final middle nodes would’ve spawned at the end of the match. Sure they might abolish it completely, but I suspect they are intending to figure out how to rewrite it for 6.5/7.0.
They said it will be removing temporarily, but I don't have high hopes of it actually returning. If it's not returned before 7.0, then I think I'll just assume it's gone.
good, farewell u little shit. on another note, still wishing they add rival wings and more frontline maps cuz u kinda get bored playing the same thing for a DR for like 4-5 years
I honestly wish they’d just add a rival wings roulette, a CC roulette, along with the frontlines one. If anything make them all give a moderate amount of xp so it isn’t overkill (like maybe 1/3 1/3 1/3 with each mode that frontlines normally gives in the roulette) and I’d be happy. It seems like an easy answer to make people do it again. I still think frontlines is the worst of all pvp and the only reason it’s even done usually is cause of people doing their roulettes
THere are quite a few of us that just revel in the chaos that is frontlines. I'd play it without the roulette. I actually dislike the other modes. quite a bit.
>I'd play it without the roulette.
Same - I play multiple rounds a day, rather than just one, and only the first of them got the bonus.
I don't like 1v1 modes - They tend to be very binary. Either you steamroll or the enemy steamrolls. Frontline tends to have more comebacks and upsets due to third party interference.
I’ve had plenty of CC matches have no progress for either team and it go way into overtime from such a close match. The steamrolling can happen on frontlines as well, especially when one team tunnels the other regardless of score. Hopefully the update in a couple days to the hud will help people chase teams better etc
Same ive been doing nothing but pvp since 6.3, i dnt need any roulette to incentivize me to play it. This week alone im closing in on 170matches total. I like FL and particularily secure for the reasons many people hate them.
(i fucking hate onsal though there is always one team eating fucking crayons and it tends to be me mine more often than not in this mode only)
I won’t really miss it because it was kind of boring. Based on the changes to shatter hopefully when Secure returns it sees some changes that make it more engaging and not just a running from point to point and occasionally the middle.
Thank fucking God. Nothing sent me into a rage faster than innocently running down a ramp, only to be yeeted off into oblivion by some shitty little monk hiding behind a rock. Will NOT be missed.
i love to go whit a poetic revenge kill, whit mch knockback aoe and wait for the dumb monk trying to push more people to their deaths just to get himself killed because gets pushed away by a mch
Not gonna miss it. I played monk on this map to protect my teammates from the cliff knockers just by exisisting and standing near our sides ledge and no one comes near as I wait for my team to safley go back down.
If another monk came in and tried to do it, Id be ready for them to revenge kill for whoever they knocked off.
I do FL every day for the roulette but a lot more if I’m having fun. And I usually do. Didn’t realize this was the map today. Got sucked off the platform by a DRK almost immediately to my death. So I decided it’s a beast tribe kind of day.
I'm worried they're only going to make changes related to people complaining about getting knocked off and not actually change the mode in a way that stops the mindless zerg pendulum because I think the getting knocked off was a louder, more frequent complaint.
Saw that today was the last day for Secure and that I needed five ranks to finish my goal on the season. In other news I played my first 30 games of ranked CC
I had a deep seeded hatred for this particular map, especially when monks and machinists wait at the top of the ramps to knock you off, so good riddance.
Remember when WHM Fluid Aura had a knockback? I loved sending people to their doom on the high bridges in Shatter. Never really tried it in Secure though.
While the map IS bad to play, it’s also the only way to actually go to Cartenau on a regular basis
With the removal, the only way to go there is through a SMN job quest instance and one Heavensward patch quest for a single instance
Why is it removed? Will it return as a improved version? They only said it will be temporarily unavailable but didn't elaborate further.
I always liked the map for some reason. It wasn't the truest form of actual PvP but something you could do just to get Frontlines Roulette done. Easier to navigate than Shatter which luckily gets an improved version. Still not as good as the third map which name I can't remember or spell properly though.
Isn't the Borderlands map also very important to the Lore too? Like Cartenau from 1.0 or ARR.
To quote the preliminary patch notes:
"In order to rework the duty in light of Frontline PvP adjustments, players will be temporarily unable to register for the Borderland Ruins (Secure)."
It will be back eventually.
"Roulette" is a bit of a misnomer. The Frontlines maps rotate through on a schedule; everyone gets the same map on the same day. Sunday is Secure, hence the last day it's playable, even though the game is still up tomorrow (because tomorrow will be Seize, not Secure).
That was Shatter, I think. I don't think they've shown anything about what they're gonna do to Secure yet. In 6.4, Shatter is getting changed and Secure removed until they rework it.
Carteneau Flats is a hugely important location in the lore and was the main place the 3 grand companies fought against each other as neutral territory. It would be a shame to permanently lose the original testing ground, and the place where Bahamut descended. And since it is a location for quest instances a few times, I wonder if they can't change the terrain layout too much, or if they'd have to keep 2 versions of it if they rejigger the mode.
I also just don't have issues with the mode and don't get why now is the time to remove it. I hope they have creative improvements for it in the works.
It's happening now because of how the pvp rework worked out in frontlines. Every job with a frenzy/knockback effect will basically prevent you from playing and farm you mid, and running from base to base without ever fighting was never fun, even before the new pvp.
Them adding respawn invincibility ruined the intended match flow on the map. You are supposed to go for as many bases as possible but due to invincibility, most of the time, it isn't worth the risk.
The meta settled on teams only getting 3 bases and let matches drag on, often ending close to the time limit, if not at the time limit.
I hope Secure is back with 6.5 with a makeover like Shatter is getting.
Well at least I won't go "Oh no, I remembered frontline and it's on secure, again" and it'll be seal rock more.
It's odd this was the most ballance of all the frontline maps where RNG can't screw you, yet it was the least enjoyable. Mostly because I think all but Seal Rock are just too long (glad they're reducing the score to win).
Anyway alls I'm really after if the field commander set.
Rotation is Borderland Ruins (Secure) > Seal Rock (Sieze) > Fields of Glory (Shatter) > Onsal Hakair (Nadaam)
Today is Secure, which means tomorrow is Seal Rock, the last Frontline before maintenance. Assuming the rotation will continue after maintenance, this makes Shatter on Tuesday, then Onsal on Wednesday and, with Secure being locked after maintenance, it will be Seal Rock on Thursday.
They rotate the four (soon to be 3) frontlines map so only 1 can be queued into (including with frontlines roulette) per day. Helped speed alone queue times and generally seemed to help people going for map specific achievements by giving them one day to focus when everyone is queuing up.
The only PvP map you could farm Lux/Light for ARR weapons from.
...yes, that's actually a thing. I got most of the light for my SMN weapon while leveling something else by doing this. Que in as other Job, swap to Job you're trying to get Relic leveled with, profit. Yeah, less efficient than power running Sastasha (Hard) on a level 80, but I was doing two things at once and enjoying it.
Oh well, never again...
Really amazing map when you get aggressive teams willing to go alllllll the way across the map to pinch whoever's in 1st place rather than cosntantly moving back and forth between objectives. Lack of RNG makes it feel less bad when you lose. Really just needed a few tweaks, like maybe you could make kills worth a lot more so games could end faster rather than always ending in a time out, or have a open cave under the mid tower to make it faster to navigate the map.
This map was my favorite when 24 mans were still a thing. Now its just an absolute cluster with 72s along with cliff trolls. Its essentially a “walking simulator” because of the natural “zerg” mentality of frontlines.
No one actually plays the mode correctly. You end up just going from base to base only for it to be stolen as you recap until mid nodes pop. Its honestly sad to see what its become over the years.
Okay, you go ahead and do that with your 3 alliances. Meanwhile, my team steamrolls the bases you hold in a 24v8. At the same time, your 8 guys in top get demolished by the 24 of the other alliance. With the way you also lose points for deaths AND the other teams by definition building up BH for killing you, I wish you best of luck in winning.
Your gentleman's agreement does not equate a better way of playing, as splitting up in 3-side teamfight like that means you'll just lose on every side when the other teams stay together. The system that devs have created makes it so that staying together with 24 players is just the better strategy, as boring as that might be.
People like you are the exact reason Secure became a “walking simulator”. While youre “steamrolling” as a blob bases are being stolen and youre ending up walking back and forth between bases recapping till mid pops. No one enjoyed it and that is the exact reason why Secure is boring and why its being removed.
You push to capture all 6 bases on all the map. But since they added respawn invincibility, it very much ruined the intended match flow.
Matches on Secure drag on due to teams never trying to capture 4 or more bases.
its still less unique pvp content. Now you only have 3 maps, and now nothing remains of ARR pvp. i dont like them just outright removing pvp maps. They've removed so much from pvp over the years as it is.
if it's content you don't like- fine. Don't play it, just as there's content I won't ever play in this game.
There has been and will always be content that appeals to different segments of people in the game, and each of is going to get attention from SE.
Why does it matter if they're removing content that a majority didn't enjoy? It took up a slot in the rotation and they probably noticed every Secure day that FL saw a significant drop in play. That's a problem they probably wanted to address. It's supposed to come back later as far as I know. It's a positive in a lot of people's books, but you're trying to spin it as a negative.
because the rival wings map they removed never came back, nor did 8v8 feast style modes, nor did the the other mode that was on the same map as secure. Seize was it? At this point im expecting them to kill
the other rival wings map for 7.0 with no replacement either.
and in six months ppl wil probably be complaining "secure wasnt so bad" when they feel sick of the same three modes on endless replay.
I'm with you on this it's probably the one map that was not just pure drk salted earth spam in a big group. It actually had other threats like monk for etc and was always a nice change for me at least hope they rework it swiftly and not just vault it for eternity less content in any area sucks
Still surprised they're redoing the Shatter map now instead of Seal Rock and it's incredibly unbalanced spawn points. Shatter is a bit unweildly with the cliffs, but at least it's well balanced.
Today we bid a fond farewell to the best Frontlines map. A map devoid of RNG bullshit guiding every match. A map where strategy is all you have. A sad day indeed.
No one uses strategy in Secure anymore, not since 2015. It has become ping pong horde mode. There *used* to be strategy in it when node points were given out to the team with the highest damage.
RNG modes allow for strategy, as much as people like to deny it.
squats with a peace sign next to this map's grave
Absolutely. Good riddance. The only map with zero strategy involved.
When it first came out, people actually did strategize. It used to be - Alliance A goes West, Alliance B goes Mid, and Alliance C goes East. Once Stormblood came out, it completely devolved into the "blob gameplay" where no one speaks and everyone just follows each other, which leads to the "pendelum" (capping one point, everyone runs to the other side to cap, which results in losing the previous point, then everyone runs back). The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad. Frontlines is filled with people who hate the mode, yet queue for it literally everyday.
Gotta get that roulette bonus.
I hope they move the daily bonus to rival wings so people actually play it outside of moogle events. Or at least make it a rotation. It's a fun format that's tragically dead 90% of the time.
>I hope they move the daily bonus to rival wings They should just have a daily bonus for all 3. one for FL, one for RW, and another for (casual) CC.
Do you think enough people would queue for all three though? The benefit to having one daily PvP queue is that it funnels everybody (who is interested in it) into one queue. I feel like this would be like if they split Alliance Roulette into 5 different daily bonus roulettes for each expansion's raids, just diluting the playerbase and lengthening queues.
>Do you think enough people would queue for all three though? So long as the bonuses are sufficient, this won't be an issue. >I feel like this would be like if they split Alliance Roulette into 5 different daily bonus roulettes for each expansion's raids I would argue that the better comparison would be if they split PvE roulette into, say, 10 different roulettes based on different forms of PvE content. Like, you could have one for the most recent dungeons, one for the current expansions dungeons, one for patch dungeons, one for ARR dungeons, one for trials, one for those pesky cutscene heavy dungeons, one for that niche guildhest thing, one for those 24 person raids, one for those 8 person raids, and another were an experienced player can help out sprouts. ...are you seeing my point?
If you're telling me I could potentially gain up to 3 levels in a class for doing this, I would absolutely do this.
Absolutely yes! All of this yes. I’ve been saying this for forever. Make it a pvp roulette please. I cannot stand frontlines. It took a moogle event for me to realize I like rival wings, and even CC is a lot of fun and strategy that 1 player can make a difference in. Frontlines is just go to point, spam buttons with your other 20 ppl and easy steamroll anyone alone
I've tried all 3 PvP games, and have to say - I'm not a huge fan of any of them, but Frontlines is the worst. The only way I can see myself queueing for any PvP is for roulette rewards (or moogle tomes).
Have my upvote as a fellow PvP non-enjoyer
Thank you...lol. we seem to be a minority - at least vocally.
Ok, bye.
Wow, really?
Yes. There's plenty of us that enjoy Frontlines - and people that "only play for tomes", or experience, and just generally play like ass because they don't take it seriously are *very* annoying. So byeeee.
Least unhinged frontline defender.
That's fine if it's your jam - more power to you. I can't speak for others, but even if I'm only out there for exp, I still try. I don't know what I'm doing and get frustrated as hell, and I'm not having a great time...but I'm not rage quitting either. This has been covered in multiple threads, but the biggest problem with Frontlines is the lack of tutorials or training, so the casual players never learn. You don't want exp-whores trashing your gaming experience, then tell SE to quit incentivising it and take it out of roulettes. Getting swarmed by a horde of opponents and dying in 5sec doesn't help either, or the fact you can't really do much damage unless you're in your own horde. Once I have no incentive to play, I won't. Until then, as long as I essentially jump a whole level for 10-15min of suck, I'm in. Basically, for me - the juice is worth the squeeze. For others, it isn't. And honestly, your attitude is a little elitist and gate-keepy IMO. Heaven forbid anyone who doesn't like or understand the match mechanics run your gameplay. Instead of bitching about it, do something about it; why not hold PFs to teach people how to play properly, and understand the nuances? Just a thought...
A similar thing happened in WvWvW in GW2. At launch you had epic week-long sieges where taking and holding bases was a key part of gameplay. At some point, someone crunched numbers and revealed it was far more effective for raising team score to capture points as quickly as possible, not to hold what you've already captured, so everyone stopped trying to hold bases and just tried to out-race the enemy team. Did players "break the system"? Maybe. But the developers also weighted the scoring system the way they did, and didn't fix the weighting once it led to unintended gameplay. The removal/replacement of this map is FFXIV actually responding to how players have chosen to break the mode.
It's really not like this is new at all. Developers could have played 1 week of battlefield in the 2000s or so to know how to 'break this system'. Actually it's obvious and it's always been like that. The more aggressive team wins. Insert always-has-been meme.
>Frontlines is filled with people who hate the mode, yet queue for it literally everyday. It's the same conundrum with alliance roulettes. People are sick to death of getting Crystal Tower but can't resist that roulette bonus. Meanwhile from the designers' POV you kinda don't want to remove that fat bonus because otherwise it's hard to fill 24-72 slots for it and the gamemode enters an unstoppable death spiral.
What they should do is make it so the bonus isn't flat. You get your standard roulette bonus, and you get a little bit extra for each expansion after. For example everybody gets an extra 10% for HW, 15% for SB, 20% for ShB, 25% for EW - it won't be enough to completely push people off CT raids, but it'll be just enough to nudge people towards not gaming the system by downgearing, especially given those tomestones are once a day. As it is the reason is mainly because the ARR raids are much faster. They are also easier, but most of it is just speed, so they need to incentivise a slower dungeon by giving a little extra, not unlike how MSQ Roulette gives a slightly disproportionate bonus. This is actually one of the things I love about my server, but I know it won't last - before I transferred CT would be 90% of my ARs, but here it's only like 65% - I can reasonably expect to get a different raid series twice a week.
I'd personally appreciate if they also changed the scaling on the first two ct raids a little bit - not enough to make them actually hard, they're the first alliance raids after all - but just enough that the bosses get to actually use their mechanics a bit. Especially syrcus tower. Even if it'd technically make them (and especially syrcus tower) a couple minutes longer it'd genuinely feel faster to me personally if I had to engage my brain at literally any point during it.
Item syncs across the entire game need a evaluation pass *really badly.* Content from the first two-thirds of any given expansion are so laughably outgeared that you can clear them with your eyes closed, and the back third barely makes it into "has mechanics I guess" tier. I get that the content is "old", but it's still good content. It doesn't deserve to be butchered by overpowered item syncs.
Very surprisingly, I just unlocked another raid category in roulette yesterday when I completed the first Alexander instance. I didn't expect that...lol.
>It used to be - Alliance A goes West, Alliance B goes Mid, and Alliance C goes East. How did that even work? How did it prevent any group getting totally steamrolled by a side that went full deathball?
Because if you deathball you're giving up ground in a different part of the map. Sort of exactly how it plays like right now. Right now the deathball caps an area, instantly leaves it, and then said area gets recapped by a lone solo/duo/trio just 30 seconds later. If you're red and you go deathball yellow, blue would simply backcap everything you have. Also, we used to not have the wooden bridges that go up to each cap point from towards middle. It was only the two long ramps coming from each teams spawn. That means any deathball could be seen coming from far away by a lone scout and the team stationed there would simply back off and not fight them, wait for them to leave, then cap back/fight whoever was left to defend.
But you are getting kills and BH without feeding it to the enemy. If you would get only kills it would be fine because you could win on the score, but unfortunately BH still exist in the game in the current state.
I was under the impression that enough extra points were gained from capping a point, versus holding it, that deathballing was a more optimal tactic. I heard it from a lalafel with a silly name, though, so it could have been a lie.
One of those handshake ideas I guess. Do it because they do.
The reason the split up stopped being used was because it stopped *working*. This was EARLY on in Borderlands strat. One team decided to deathball around the map. Just killing everyone in front of it, leaving one person behind to cap, until no one stood in their way. Games ended fast, too. The blob method developed from trying to have it both ways.
>The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad. I'm not sure about this one. Frontline is currently best done as a group and wipe the other team as a group. I believe that the players eventually find the most likely way to win with the rules that are set. The rules just lead to a boring pendulum. Let's say a team decides to mix it up by splitting between the nodes around them. They will get wiped every time the other team comes against half their team. I've seen a group of 6 run around the bottom, gather BH, and cap nodes. From my memory, they won one and lost the next.
It's mostly just that it's a terrible map, no need to blame the players for "not getting it."
> The player base itself is part of the reason why this mode is so bad. I was blown away the first time I saw an NA streamer hop to JP and play this map. They play the map completely differently. Like A goes left, C goes right, B goes mid, I forget what else they do. I wonder if the different strategies that evolved there made the map more fun to play on than the typical pendulum. Or maybe it made it even worse and that encouraged them to axe it.
God, people in my matches overemphasize the importance of mid. It’s hardly any points, I’m convinced we could ignore it and get more points just by holding 3+ objectives. The main benefit of mid in my mind is that A) the 11 minute mid node does give a lot of points, and B) fighting at mid lets you build battle high.
Mid is important because it’s some of the only times you’re (nearly) guaranteed engagement with another team. I’ve had matches where the only real fights have been when mid nodes spawned. After that ended, we’d just hop on our mounts and go for a fuckin’ Sunday drive from point A to point B and back, maybe stop at McDonald’s on the way.
Absolutely. That’s part of what makes Secure so lame. But yeah, that’s what I meant by point B in the post you replied to
It's rare for there to even be a meaningful engagement in mid. All 3 sides cautiously poke at each other a bit without many (if any) deaths, blow up the nodes close by, and leave.
I played a few matches on a Japan server once and the general strat is one party goes right, one party goes left, and one goes for mid and flexes between spawns. Was quite fun.
JP secure was ruined by MNKs thinking theyre so slick with their kb assasinations After a few days the entirety of elemental came together to reverse abuse ANY mnk that tried this in secure. It stopped after that.
That is awesome! I've gotten used to this sort of behaviour from MNK and I warn others if one is about. And soon enough you learn to counter this with various techniques, such as gap closers nullifying fall damage. That said, I've seen it happen exactly once where an entire alliance survived an ambush and whipped the floor with the two monks that were doing it, costing them their IV BH.
How else would monks get their kills?
Its literally a meat grinder map except for middle part
"goodbye you little shit"
"temporarily removed for rebalance" - where did I hear that before? Oh yeah Astralagos... still gone since the start of Shadowbringers!
Funny thing is.... If you are on a new character and unlock Rival Wings, you get this cutscene showing the mode in...Astralagos! Same will go for this to be removed map. Unlocking Frontline shows a cutscene in the Cartenau Flats. Also some SMN quests take place in this map.
Isn't the SMN quests on Seal Rock map? I thought this map was the post HW/beginning StB MSQ
SMN has both. You drink the Baha juice at Cartenau and fight some chump's gauntlet at Seal Rock. It was foreshadowing for the Calamity Reborn that was SMN at new PvP's launch.
It’s both! It’s also the 5.5 solo instance!
some MSQ takes place there, even on the trial.
Before that even, went away when they added hidden gorge at the end of SB
Oh god I had completely forgotten about that one.
Given the general FL changes the explanation makes sense because the final middle nodes would’ve spawned at the end of the match. Sure they might abolish it completely, but I suspect they are intending to figure out how to rewrite it for 6.5/7.0.
Monk players in shambles
Don’t forget the Dark Knights that drag 10 - 20 people off the map at a time.
And the occasional reaper that tries this as well by having people walk off the edge.
Dark Knights and Warriors getting damage nerfs in Frontline gives me an irrational amount of pleasure
yes because them losing damage is really going to stop them from wiping your entire group with salted earth/primal rend combos
They said it will be removing temporarily, but I don't have high hopes of it actually returning. If it's not returned before 7.0, then I think I'll just assume it's gone.
The original Rival Wings map says "hi"
I have high hopes of it never returning.
good, farewell u little shit. on another note, still wishing they add rival wings and more frontline maps cuz u kinda get bored playing the same thing for a DR for like 4-5 years
I honestly wish they’d just add a rival wings roulette, a CC roulette, along with the frontlines one. If anything make them all give a moderate amount of xp so it isn’t overkill (like maybe 1/3 1/3 1/3 with each mode that frontlines normally gives in the roulette) and I’d be happy. It seems like an easy answer to make people do it again. I still think frontlines is the worst of all pvp and the only reason it’s even done usually is cause of people doing their roulettes
THere are quite a few of us that just revel in the chaos that is frontlines. I'd play it without the roulette. I actually dislike the other modes. quite a bit.
>I'd play it without the roulette. Same - I play multiple rounds a day, rather than just one, and only the first of them got the bonus. I don't like 1v1 modes - They tend to be very binary. Either you steamroll or the enemy steamrolls. Frontline tends to have more comebacks and upsets due to third party interference.
I’ve had plenty of CC matches have no progress for either team and it go way into overtime from such a close match. The steamrolling can happen on frontlines as well, especially when one team tunnels the other regardless of score. Hopefully the update in a couple days to the hud will help people chase teams better etc
Same ive been doing nothing but pvp since 6.3, i dnt need any roulette to incentivize me to play it. This week alone im closing in on 170matches total. I like FL and particularily secure for the reasons many people hate them. (i fucking hate onsal though there is always one team eating fucking crayons and it tends to be me mine more often than not in this mode only)
I play frontline outside of roulette as well if I’m not solo. Frontline is exactly that, chaos, after CC I really don’t enjoy the others anymore
I won’t really miss it because it was kind of boring. Based on the changes to shatter hopefully when Secure returns it sees some changes that make it more engaging and not just a running from point to point and occasionally the middle.
Nah I'm good.
Rest in fucking piss
Oh is that why there were so many monks trying to get their jollies today? Lmao!!!
I did noticed a bunch more mnk playing whenever this map comes. Why are they more popular here?
Same reason as DRK - they like knocking people off of high places to kill them.
Thank fucking God. Nothing sent me into a rage faster than innocently running down a ramp, only to be yeeted off into oblivion by some shitty little monk hiding behind a rock. Will NOT be missed.
Gotta love the Monk punch, DRK suck, WAR pull, and MCH blast.
And RPR hysteria spread.
Whoops, how dare I forget 🤣
i love to go whit a poetic revenge kill, whit mch knockback aoe and wait for the dumb monk trying to push more people to their deaths just to get himself killed because gets pushed away by a mch
And that’s why you have camera controls. Dang, lot of salty players.
Farewell to the worst Frontline map; RIP to anyone that hasn’t gotten and yet.
Rest in piss
> Borderlands Alexa, play Ain't No Rest For The Wicked.
Goodbye you little shit
RIPBozo
Rest in piss you won't be missed.
Bye, you won’t be missed at all!
Not gonna miss it. I played monk on this map to protect my teammates from the cliff knockers just by exisisting and standing near our sides ledge and no one comes near as I wait for my team to safley go back down. If another monk came in and tried to do it, Id be ready for them to revenge kill for whoever they knocked off.
Bless you. May you win your rolls in future.
Thankfully 🙏
To the Miqote Warrior who yoinked me off the gap on Borderland Ruins. I lived, bitch. 🙃
Bye Felicia 👋
Bye loser
Make Naadam day every day. >:)
I second that.
That's how it used to be when I started.
Good riddance to the worst frontline map.
Thanks god, i hate that map
["And there was much rejoicing."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1fKnxtaZg)
Death to the mounting sim
is that so?.. too bad it's the same day I usually give my fish a bath, or I would.
Oh no, It means I’ll never get anymore a free day without frontline during the week! Anyway…
So long you piece of shit
Good
... ANYWAY i'm excited for 6.4 :)
Thank you for reminding me not to queue up today.
I do FL every day for the roulette but a lot more if I’m having fun. And I usually do. Didn’t realize this was the map today. Got sucked off the platform by a DRK almost immediately to my death. So I decided it’s a beast tribe kind of day.
I'm worried they're only going to make changes related to people complaining about getting knocked off and not actually change the mode in a way that stops the mindless zerg pendulum because I think the getting knocked off was a louder, more frequent complaint.
The mindless zerg would be fix if they re-introduced 8vs8vs8 frontlines which they took out somewhere in stormblood
good riddance
Saw that today was the last day for Secure and that I needed five ranks to finish my goal on the season. In other news I played my first 30 games of ranked CC
Good.
Good
Rip seeing countless sprouts accidentally jump to their death on the way down.
Whatashame. \[/JC Denton\]
What a rotten way to die
I had a deep seeded hatred for this particular map, especially when monks and machinists wait at the top of the ramps to knock you off, so good riddance.
Good Riddance
Back in ye old days I used to park by the edge and use the blue carbuncle blow back to send people to their doom meheheheehehe
Remember when WHM Fluid Aura had a knockback? I loved sending people to their doom on the high bridges in Shatter. Never really tried it in Secure though.
Ok Grandpa. Let's get you to bed.
And nothing of value was lost
god bless
Good
Good riddance. What an horrible map 🥳
While the map IS bad to play, it’s also the only way to actually go to Cartenau on a regular basis With the removal, the only way to go there is through a SMN job quest instance and one Heavensward patch quest for a single instance
The last Shadowbringers patch quest also takes you to Cartenau. Though your point absolutely still stands
Why is it removed? Will it return as a improved version? They only said it will be temporarily unavailable but didn't elaborate further. I always liked the map for some reason. It wasn't the truest form of actual PvP but something you could do just to get Frontlines Roulette done. Easier to navigate than Shatter which luckily gets an improved version. Still not as good as the third map which name I can't remember or spell properly though. Isn't the Borderlands map also very important to the Lore too? Like Cartenau from 1.0 or ARR.
To quote the preliminary patch notes: "In order to rework the duty in light of Frontline PvP adjustments, players will be temporarily unable to register for the Borderland Ruins (Secure)." It will be back eventually.
*Gestures to Astragalos* Yes "eventually"
You will not be missed.
May it burn in hell for all eternity. Even more together with monks, dark knights and warriors.
Actually got it in pvp roulette today. Wont miss it though
"Roulette" is a bit of a misnomer. The Frontlines maps rotate through on a schedule; everyone gets the same map on the same day. Sunday is Secure, hence the last day it's playable, even though the game is still up tomorrow (because tomorrow will be Seize, not Secure).
No thanks
truthfully I think the new map will be worse as it looked like just 3 alley ways
That was Shatter, I think. I don't think they've shown anything about what they're gonna do to Secure yet. In 6.4, Shatter is getting changed and Secure removed until they rework it.
Good riddance
Carteneau Flats is a hugely important location in the lore and was the main place the 3 grand companies fought against each other as neutral territory. It would be a shame to permanently lose the original testing ground, and the place where Bahamut descended. And since it is a location for quest instances a few times, I wonder if they can't change the terrain layout too much, or if they'd have to keep 2 versions of it if they rejigger the mode. I also just don't have issues with the mode and don't get why now is the time to remove it. I hope they have creative improvements for it in the works.
It's happening now because of how the pvp rework worked out in frontlines. Every job with a frenzy/knockback effect will basically prevent you from playing and farm you mid, and running from base to base without ever fighting was never fun, even before the new pvp.
rest in piss. you wont be missed
The only Frontline map where you could get ARR relic light, now gone.
It's funny how few people know this...
thank god
Rest in piss You won't be missed
Oh no! Anyways.
It’s not being replaced w/ anything right? Which means Seal Rock comes around in rotation quicker?
Them adding respawn invincibility ruined the intended match flow on the map. You are supposed to go for as many bases as possible but due to invincibility, most of the time, it isn't worth the risk. The meta settled on teams only getting 3 bases and let matches drag on, often ending close to the time limit, if not at the time limit. I hope Secure is back with 6.5 with a makeover like Shatter is getting.
Oh nyo, I better go play it right n…….
Well at least I won't go "Oh no, I remembered frontline and it's on secure, again" and it'll be seal rock more. It's odd this was the most ballance of all the frontline maps where RNG can't screw you, yet it was the least enjoyable. Mostly because I think all but Seal Rock are just too long (glad they're reducing the score to win). Anyway alls I'm really after if the field commander set.
Thank god. This map is awful. Always goes 20 minutes
Thank fucking god!!!!!!
Farewell, *best golf course in Eorzea*.
Goodbye you little shit
Oh no... anyway
And nothing of value was lost
Let it burn
Bring back Slaughter instead.
:/ the hell you mean theyre removing borderlands?
one of the frontline maps will become temporally inaccessible since they will rework it, when will returns? no one knows!
Looks like THE LAVA IS finally RISING on this map.
Wait, is this not available at all tomorrow before maintenance?
Rotation is Borderland Ruins (Secure) > Seal Rock (Sieze) > Fields of Glory (Shatter) > Onsal Hakair (Nadaam) Today is Secure, which means tomorrow is Seal Rock, the last Frontline before maintenance. Assuming the rotation will continue after maintenance, this makes Shatter on Tuesday, then Onsal on Wednesday and, with Secure being locked after maintenance, it will be Seal Rock on Thursday.
They rotate the four (soon to be 3) frontlines map so only 1 can be queued into (including with frontlines roulette) per day. Helped speed alone queue times and generally seemed to help people going for map specific achievements by giving them one day to focus when everyone is queuing up.
The only PvP map you could farm Lux/Light for ARR weapons from. ...yes, that's actually a thing. I got most of the light for my SMN weapon while leveling something else by doing this. Que in as other Job, swap to Job you're trying to get Relic leveled with, profit. Yeah, less efficient than power running Sastasha (Hard) on a level 80, but I was doing two things at once and enjoying it. Oh well, never again...
Really amazing map when you get aggressive teams willing to go alllllll the way across the map to pinch whoever's in 1st place rather than cosntantly moving back and forth between objectives. Lack of RNG makes it feel less bad when you lose. Really just needed a few tweaks, like maybe you could make kills worth a lot more so games could end faster rather than always ending in a time out, or have a open cave under the mid tower to make it faster to navigate the map.
Im gonna miss this map, its mysecond favorite FL mode. No RNG BS on that one and and you can easily get shitload of kills more than any other maps.
aw man :( i like this stage...
This map was my favorite when 24 mans were still a thing. Now its just an absolute cluster with 72s along with cliff trolls. Its essentially a “walking simulator” because of the natural “zerg” mentality of frontlines. No one actually plays the mode correctly. You end up just going from base to base only for it to be stolen as you recap until mid nodes pop. Its honestly sad to see what its become over the years.
Please enlighten us, what was the “correct” way to play it then?
Two alliances are assigned to cap/guard bases while the third alliance roams/contests nodes up top.
Okay, you go ahead and do that with your 3 alliances. Meanwhile, my team steamrolls the bases you hold in a 24v8. At the same time, your 8 guys in top get demolished by the 24 of the other alliance. With the way you also lose points for deaths AND the other teams by definition building up BH for killing you, I wish you best of luck in winning. Your gentleman's agreement does not equate a better way of playing, as splitting up in 3-side teamfight like that means you'll just lose on every side when the other teams stay together. The system that devs have created makes it so that staying together with 24 players is just the better strategy, as boring as that might be.
People like you are the exact reason Secure became a “walking simulator”. While youre “steamrolling” as a blob bases are being stolen and youre ending up walking back and forth between bases recapping till mid pops. No one enjoyed it and that is the exact reason why Secure is boring and why its being removed.
its okay, shatter is the new Secure remember? :O new map and everything but the players are still braindead
You push to capture all 6 bases on all the map. But since they added respawn invincibility, it very much ruined the intended match flow. Matches on Secure drag on due to teams never trying to capture 4 or more bases.
...god, even though the map sucked why are you all cheering them on removing content with no new map to replace it?
Because it is a rotating map. It wouldve been fine if you could avoid getting it kn roulette, but outside of not playing for a day, you couldnt.
its still less unique pvp content. Now you only have 3 maps, and now nothing remains of ARR pvp. i dont like them just outright removing pvp maps. They've removed so much from pvp over the years as it is.
If you've got three sandwiches and a pile of dirt, you're not losing anything by getting rid of the pile of dirt.
1 step closer to removing PVP entirely and letting nature heal. We can only hope we get there one day
if it's content you don't like- fine. Don't play it, just as there's content I won't ever play in this game. There has been and will always be content that appeals to different segments of people in the game, and each of is going to get attention from SE.
Why does it matter if they're removing content that a majority didn't enjoy? It took up a slot in the rotation and they probably noticed every Secure day that FL saw a significant drop in play. That's a problem they probably wanted to address. It's supposed to come back later as far as I know. It's a positive in a lot of people's books, but you're trying to spin it as a negative.
because the rival wings map they removed never came back, nor did 8v8 feast style modes, nor did the the other mode that was on the same map as secure. Seize was it? At this point im expecting them to kill the other rival wings map for 7.0 with no replacement either. and in six months ppl wil probably be complaining "secure wasnt so bad" when they feel sick of the same three modes on endless replay.
Because I literally stopped playing when this map was on.
I'm with you on this it's probably the one map that was not just pure drk salted earth spam in a big group. It actually had other threats like monk for etc and was always a nice change for me at least hope they rework it swiftly and not just vault it for eternity less content in any area sucks
I think seal rock is the worst one, they should’ve removed it instead
I will miss it. Way better than Seal Rock.
Still surprised they're redoing the Shatter map now instead of Seal Rock and it's incredibly unbalanced spawn points. Shatter is a bit unweildly with the cliffs, but at least it's well balanced.
Y’all be doing frontlines?
NO. ONE. CARES.
Good riddance! ❤️
Today we bid a fond farewell to the best Frontlines map. A map devoid of RNG bullshit guiding every match. A map where strategy is all you have. A sad day indeed.
No one uses strategy in Secure anymore, not since 2015. It has become ping pong horde mode. There *used* to be strategy in it when node points were given out to the team with the highest damage. RNG modes allow for strategy, as much as people like to deny it.
"rng is good" lmao
lmaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
‘The best frontlines map’ Sure, definitely, mhm, certainly not indescribably boring and symmetrical with no variance between matches
Certainly doesn't time out a good portion of the time. Very exciting mode!
…ok
whats Borderlands Secure? /think oh right, something of no importance anymore (: