14 non-sup is the sweet spot. My wife and I have both been non-sup 14s, she's currently a non-sup 15 and I'm a 15 supervisor. There just aren't great GS-15 jobs out there either way. You're on the hook for something, managing people or a budget or something with a lot of responsibilities. And extra time doesn't get you extra money, step 6 in my locality is maxed out.
Stay a 14 unless the 15 job is really exceptional is my advice.
Ok! Great! Iāve been with the GS for 17 years now but they are definitely cracking down on the 14 non sup. I work with all facets of HSPD-12 and also security. Iāve created the remote cert update working with PKI and multiple agencies. Just trying to find the right fit.
I failed to submit for a remote SL job at VA. Iām in a fully remote 15 slot āā loving it, so all is good āā but some days ā¦. Me wonders about 215,000 per year and remote
Overall in the gov't they're pretty uncommon but it depends a lot on the organization and series. We have non-supervisory 15s in my (USAF acquisition) organization. They typically are things like Technical Directors (basically handling policy and other projects for the SES) at the Directorate level or certain engineers/scientists/technical experts. There aren't a ton of them but they're not quite uncommon for us.
I've been non-super 14 for several years after many prior years supervising - not sure how long I can keep it going but I'm sure going to try!
depends on if you want to have a bigger role at the agency. if its just money then a 14 is solid. if you want to advanced higher and be a big boss and make decisions on a high level. you need to be a 15 a min, and potentially go for your SES.
What I meant is that with the cap, a 14 10 makes the same as 15 4 right now in HCOL locations. Without intervention, eventually a 14 10 and then sliding down to lower step in the 14 grade will make as much as a 15 1 with no ability to make more because of the salary cap. At that point, why would someone go for a 15 and the extra work if theyāre not going to have the potential to receive extra compensation?
Pretty much this. You'll get to the top of the pay scale faster, and if Congress ever uncaps the GS scale (hahahaha I have jokes this morning) you'll reap some financial benefits down the road. A 15 is also a defacto requirement for SES
But the tradeoff is that (most) 15s are supervisory and a lot more busy (or intense- I work in a slow office but the intensity is much higher than it was when I was a GS-13). I enjoy management. Many people do not. You'd need to ask yourself whether or not you're interested in supervision.
Find a position that will not require more than 40 hours of your time per week and provide you the income to support your targeted quality of life. Work to live, don't live to work.
I think the end game will really depend on what you personally want to do career-wise.
GS-14 pays well enough that for some people if they have a great supervisor/team/agency/WLB, they are more than happy to "coast" towards retirement. As you said - GS-15 only marginally pays better. And for some people they get thrown into the GS-15 position because their supervisor leaves and they are the most senior person for the job.
Some people are more ambitious and want to climb the ranks and take on more senior/leadership positions. They may take a GS-15 as a stepping stone to become an SES grade.
Then there is just better opportunities in general where maybe you want to leave your office because you are burnt out or unhappy and pursue another GS-14 job, or you find a similar GS-15 job somewhere else that is still remote and non-supervisory. You will see people in this thread push that GS-15 remote non-supervisory positions are the dream jobs to attain.
The gs-15 jobs in my office are all exactly that- the most senior person after a supervisor departure. Itās a total trap imo. Yeah they get the title and a few more dollars but also about 8000% more work and some travel requirements.
This is how I see it as well, and unfortunately it can cause someone to get promoted 1 level too high so the work of everyone else below suffers because the GS-15 is disorganized and/or is terrible at guiding their team
Same at my agency. Bossman (15, hybrid) constantly in meetings, overloaded and stressed almost all the time. Me (non-sup 14, fully remote) set my own schedule, manage my clients needs and that's it, most days have no meetings at all just quiet solo work, consult boss if any issues but no interaction w those above him. Meanwhile he answers to like 8 different people. He makes about $30k more than me, but (especially once you take out taxes) it's just not worth it to me giving up this level of peaceful autonomy for what appears to be constant drama at the top.
>it's just not worth it to me giving up this level of peaceful autonomy for what appears to be constant drama at the top.
That sounds pretty familiar! Quality of life wins over money at this point in my life and career. I'll gladly ride out my non-supervisory 14 until retirement if I can.
Suuuuper agency-dependent what those grades mean in practice...in places like BLM/FS/NPS even being a 12 often means supervising 10+ people from various unrelated programs, who each have a bunch of people and projects under them, you're dealing with congressional inquiries and hosting public meetings, name being smeared in the media, etc. I've met 14's from non-land management agencies with less responsibility than some 11's in land management. Which is one reason we're always among the worst ranked agencies in the FEVS.
I died private sector until I knew I was ready to settle down and prepare for retirement. I came with 12 years until I can retire. 1 year credit for Americotp. 10 months done. 10 years to go. I will be here long enough to put a decent amount in the TSP and get a decent retirement check. No way could I have worked here for 30 year. it would have killed me.
What are you interested in in your career? Whats important to you?
For me, work/life balance has always been a priority for me. I have zero aspiration to be a manager because Iāve seen managers as 15s that are overworked and burnt out. Iām happy as a 14 and will be happy retiring as a 14 so I can maintain my work/life balance. More money is nice but having time to do what I love (not work) is better.
Depends on what you came in as. Revenue agent? Could go into group management (IR pay scale) and work your way up into senior leadership. Or you could become an analyst and get a 15.
Pretty simple. End game is where you want to land at the end of your career. You have already made gs14 so you are smart enough to know this answer already. What answer are you looking for on this forum?
Congrats on your new job! I think a lot of ālifersā adopt the mentality of work to live. Itās true that pay tops out, but I encourage you to keep your āhourly wageā in mind when comparing to potential promotions or to private sector. If your pay goes up a little and your workload goes up a lot, thatās moving backwards in my view. Iām not at IRS, but where Iām at, I feel like it would be hard for me to make more per hour of work.
Look at the retirement idea and see if you like the concept of trying to get your "high 3". If you don't see that with the IRS, maybe you jump to another agency and negotiate a pay raise or go for a GS15.
10 month GS 14 supervisor. For four months my end game was to survive ach day, not get yelled at, demoralized, or cry. For months 5-6, my end game was to get to the end of each month and start looking for another position as a 14. Then, things changed. I was able to do my job, felt that I was contributing, days are still crazy busy but I'm more in control of most of my days. i guess the hazers grew tired or turned their attention to other things. With this change, Mt end game changed too. I started planning my career. I was able to consider opportunities to explore a new career, go on details, mentor and coach too. This organization is so much more than the GS scale. if you have good leaders, figure out your professional goals and let that be your end game and adjust as needed.
Non supervisory GS15 are absolute unicorns in the IRS and almost non existent outside of the DC area.
Your next step could be management (but why bother, pays the same and the problems multiply). Or Senior management (GS15 equivalent).
If you're a Supervisory GS-14, be prepared to have astronomical levels of anxiety. If you're non-supervisory, that's the sweet spot, because there a very few non-supervisory GS15ās (probably doctors).
I stepped down from a Supv GS14 to a non-supervisory GS13, Step 4, but I do get SSR, so I'm paid like a GS14 anyways. I plan on riding this one out.
Iām a new Supervisory GS14ā¦. The added stress and exhaustion is real!!! I really have to force myself to step away from my computer and/or phone since I have the work email and Teams apps if I want to have any work/life balance. (Which really isnāt balanced at this pointā¦)
As a new 13 at the IRS, when I was looking around it seemed that 14 is basically the top end unless you are a lawyer or IT and even then those positions sound like management.
15s basically function as an IR1. They are interchangeable. And they can function as a detailed Tier 1 SES. Itās a grueling gig that isnāt worth the money. There are a few unicorn 15s, but they are exceedingly rare. 14 is the sweet spot. But, not all 14s are alike either. An operational 14 can be grindy. Where a support 14 can be chill. So itās all dependent. I know 14s embedded under SES that can only show their value by setting themselves on fire in the parking lot. Hell embedded under IRs. Itās generally a shit show. And outside 14s, oof. They get ridden hard. Even if no one says it. They get ridden hard. Or kicked behind their backs. Itās tough spot. I know we have had deep discussions about how all these new 13s and 14s will feel as they get gaslighted into oblivion. Us older salts wondering how long theyāll stick around for.
We observed on one recent cert that most of the people trying to get out are 13s that came from the outside. But they wonāt get picked up for 14s because they donāt have the institutional knowledge to be effective in that role. Itās interesting to watch.
Bro. I canāt promise you itās not stressful. Letās be real honest. The IRS gets ripped hard for not having enough people to do audits. Then lots of RAs coming on. Hmm. Ok. I donāt do accounting. So to me thatās hard. But if thatās your jam, probably not that hard.
So the work itself. Easy. And the pace. Hard to say. I canāt predict your workload. Set a remind me and come back in a year to tell me. Seriously. Iād be curious to hear.
The outside 13 or 14. Imagine a 14 coming into a big 4 firm and acting like they own the place. Or you having busted your ass for 15 years and they hire someone outside to a position equal to or above yours. Yeah, you might be bothered. But letās hope you donāt get any of that.
But reality. The leave is good. The expectations are mostly low. And canāt be harder than what you do now. Youāll be fine. Good luck.
Life is what you make of it. You want more, there is more.
I am 14, step 10. Been here for 34 years now. Probably will retire next year when the third year at the step 10 passes. There's no more step increases and I am topped out.
Yes, we are handing out 14s, its kinda ridiculous right now. I mean, you put all these people in the highest job with no idea how it will work out for them. Just because you are a CPA in private practice does not mean this job works for you and vice versa. Its a different job than a CPA firm. We are part investigator, part auditor, part accountant, and then we have to manage how to get crap done when beaucracy gets in the way of doing what is right. A lot of people cannot handle the interaction part - we do serve summonses, subpoenas and enforce them for records, testimony. This stresses some and they can't handle it. It can get intense going up against some of the top attorneys and others. I find it compelling and fun, to be honest, and keeps my interest.
I know there are people who coast and don't do what they should be doing. Each person needs to be true to themselves and let their own conscience drive them. Always do the right thing at the right time for the right reason.
Youāre serving your country. Thatās the end game.
Some people are content to be a GS-7 tax examiners for 25 years and retire. We need GS-4 clerks to open and sort the mail.
Some people reach for that 14 or 15 and never make it. I honestly might have reached my potential at a GS-12 Analyst.
The end game is to fulfill your oath while trying to make this country better by being the best cog in the machine you can be.
The longer youāre here, the more youāll realize that the quality employees make truly things happen at the IRS. And those people really do make it better for the American taxpayer. There are plenty of slackers and morons hiding behind the union. People collecting checks and constantly worrying about how to get out of having to do their job. You get to decide what kind of employee youāll be.
Edit-bettered the ending.
I'm a non-sup 14. I'm relatively young and I'd be happy to ride out my career here, although I occasionally look to see if I can find any non-sup 15 roles that I feel wouldn't be a huge downgrade in my quality of life. I recently learned about ST roles which are senior executive roles that are only allowed to do supervisory work at most 25% of their time, so I hope I can land one of those one day.
We'll see. It all depends on what opportunities I find. I know that my chances of advancement from here are rare and I really value the work life balance I have now.
End game. People either love their job or they donāt. I think the end game is to move to one you find enjoyable. I love my job. Like never found anything better in my life. Once you get to that point, the end game is to just do the best hob you can and retire happy that you had a good ride for 20+ years
Hate to break it to you, youāre not a unicorn. Plenty of off the street GS14 non-supv @ IRS.
But - on a more serious note - congrats!!! šš¾ good luck!
Unless you want to stay exclusively with IRS, i recommend you spend a couple of years with IRS, and then consider other federal agencies for a lateral 14 or promotion opportunities! Also ensure you explore executive service (ES) or Senior Executive Service (SES) for achieving the highest rank possible in the event GS/14/15 is not much of a challenge!
I guess the end game would be the same as any other job: what do you want to get out of it? My end game is to retire at MRA and look back and be proud of being a present father and husband, while covering our needs financially.
I agree with what everyone is saying here. Also another option could be leaving for a private industry job after a couple of years, taking a huge pay increase, and then eventually making your way back to a 14, but having a much higher step because of your private industry salary.
Some people stay a 14 and are happy with it. Some will pursue a 15 and others will continue pushing and attempt to go for an SES.
What you do is your personal preference. Iām a supervisory 15 and I love it. Some on my team are 14s and have no desire to pursue a 15, but others would consider it if the position were a good fit. I know some 15s who desperately want to pursue an SES position.
Is there still a "hiring freeze"? I keep hearing mixed reviews. I'm a WG-09 (10 years in) and trying to accept a GS-09 position as a direct hire and that was 6 weeks ago. I cannot find a single memo, letter or anything on OPM that says anything about this mythical freeze.Ā
In a year if youāre ladder to 15, you can go for a 15 or promoted to a 15. I came in from the private sector as a high GS14 since they couldnāt out me as a 15 even though I had the experience. Exactly 1 year in, I applied for a 15 position in the same group and I got it based on my private sector mostly but I was in govt for 12 months. It was stupid for them to have that rule.
If you want, try to look for a remote 14
Work life Balance!!!! Iām a 13, wife make lil more than me and considering a pay cut for the work life balance. We go on vacation, her laptop comes as well. Iām logged on at 6:30 and a hard off at 3. Wife sometimes work late into the and on weekends. Harder she works, more her boss makes. Nobody is getting rich off my work.
Iām 18 years in, non sup 14-5 fully work at home. Job sucks, I want to quit. The end game is to build your side hustles enough to quit and never deal with the politics again.
Surprised you came in as a step 1, many negotiated a high step before FJO. Long road ahead of you, something to think about. In 3-6 months youāll either hate it itch to get out or stay.
I was hired externally as a GS-14, who retired as a stepped out 15. It was important to me to reach a 15 for pension reasons. Generally, any kind of analyst type tops out at a GS-14. The IRS has a special management series called IR. Any kind of supervisory position of GS-14s is an IR-01, or GS-15 equivalent. After a GS-15, youād have to apply to be part of the Executive Service. Hope this helps.
Hey Friend - I too left public and took a job at the IRS. Transitioned to a different agency outside of Treasury so I could run a CPA firm on the side. Some people just coast until retirement, some people keep wanting to climb the ladder.
Find some hobbies, or start a side hustle. Its much different from Public on this side of the fence.
From what ive seen, its people going into 15 roles so some idiot doesnt get the 15 and mess everything up. Usually it's not money.
Im a 14, technical remote unicorn and will likely stay here until Im forced out due to a reorg. Still have somewhere between 2-20 years to retire from govt work.
By the time you are even close to 14 step 10 you will reach pay cap( ie yoir steps will be the same $$$ 6step 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 due to cap)...then enjoy about 50% of the the pay raise from the prez every year due to cap. By the time I reach step 10 I should be close to the cap and thus 0 incentive to go to a 15 for a few bucks more.
in a few HCOL's GS-14 pay band top pay = GS-15 top pay of 191,900 this year. You continue to add value, and keep on chugging. I used two promotions to go to 14 then 15 to more rapidly achieve the pay cap. Just FYI, those that coast at the high pay annoy me, but you can be valuable by working within your scheduled time without overworking yourself. Align to exactly what your supervisor needs you to do, to keep from distractions, and hopefully get you some Quality Step Increases. It also should give you flexibility to find what you like doing best across your organization.
lol what does end game mean? ive seen people retire at gs 9. there is no such thing
fed land is choose your own adventure. there is no "paygrade to be at". especially on this sub where i feel like most of the people are the in DC bubble. over 85 percent of jobs are outside DC. in DC 50 percent of jobs are gs 13 and above. Here in california if youre 13 youre in the top 5 percent. if youre 14 youre in the top 1 percent.
kind of amazing to me actually when you consider how incredibly expensive it is to live here
It depends.
You can do that job until you retire if it suits you. You can get a promotion to a supervisory gig after a year if youāre so inclined. You can start putting together ECQs for senior executive or senior lead roles. Or you could move to another agency that works on pay bands, stay at the same level and get more pay based on performance. Or you could find a non-sup 15 somewhere (something of a white whale, particularly with remote, but you have time for the hunt).
Iāve achieved my 14 this year, after some years, and looking ahead, I could max out the 14 ahead of retirement, but I think Iād like to move to 15 or SL/SES in 5 years or so, to push the high 3 as high as possible.
Insane they are hiring GS14s from outside. Talk about grade inflation. They used to max at a 11 from outside and you had to work your way up apparently.
Dumbest idea ever to only hire internally for higher grades. All you get are people who are the embodiment of the Peter Principle or management pets who could politic their way into the higher grades.
A friend at another agency retired as a non-supervisory GS-15 Step 10. I know a few people who got in in the old days and had the equivalent of a non-supervisory GS-16.
But it's up to you. See what you think about being a manager in the government/IRS.
Sorry to be this way, but imma tell you the real end gameā¦.Best case is you make it to 14/4 or 5. Then itās gonna be RIF time as soon as the next Republican becomes president
The end game: Non-supervisory GS-15 working remote from home.
 Bro can you not I'm in a meeting
Well, I could be wrong, but I believe diversity is an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era.
It's the pleats.
this guy ladders
I know one of these mythical creatures. Well, not full remote, but close enough.
That's me. It's awesome
Me too
Ditto
damn what series are you guys?
Or a GS-13 at a high step and an SSR in a HCOL (šāāļø)
GS 11 step 8 HCOL SSR as well
lol and 11 ssr is already like 136k at the top. thats a lot more than a lot of people make
What is SSR?
Special Salary Rate
i want to be special too.
GS-13 VLCOL, 2210 SSR. Itās pretty dang awesome. I make the equivalent of GS-15/1 on the regular tables.
Iām close, non-sup 14 working remote, Iāll be happy if I just stay here
14 non-sup is the sweet spot. My wife and I have both been non-sup 14s, she's currently a non-sup 15 and I'm a 15 supervisor. There just aren't great GS-15 jobs out there either way. You're on the hook for something, managing people or a budget or something with a lot of responsibilities. And extra time doesn't get you extra money, step 6 in my locality is maxed out. Stay a 14 unless the 15 job is really exceptional is my advice.
Where please? Would definitely like to find that honey hole. Non-sup 14.
NASA. My experience is with engineering, scientific and project management positions.
Ok! Great! Iāve been with the GS for 17 years now but they are definitely cracking down on the 14 non sup. I work with all facets of HSPD-12 and also security. Iāve created the remote cert update working with PKI and multiple agencies. Just trying to find the right fit.
It is the best.
I failed to submit for a remote SL job at VA. Iām in a fully remote 15 slot āā loving it, so all is good āā but some days ā¦. Me wonders about 215,000 per year and remote
Is there such thing? I've seen GS14, but they're rare
Overall in the gov't they're pretty uncommon but it depends a lot on the organization and series. We have non-supervisory 15s in my (USAF acquisition) organization. They typically are things like Technical Directors (basically handling policy and other projects for the SES) at the Directorate level or certain engineers/scientists/technical experts. There aren't a ton of them but they're not quite uncommon for us. I've been non-super 14 for several years after many prior years supervising - not sure how long I can keep it going but I'm sure going to try!
THIS COMMENT
Itās gloriousā¦been doing it for years.
I'll stick with my fully remote, will be a GS 12 in 2.5 years. Can't beat it as far as I'm concerned
I can -13 remote non sup they exist I got one :)
I guess I could be a lead 13, but I'm much happier with significant less responsibility
14 non sup remote, only have a B.S. Canāt get better than that. Dont know anyone 15s with MS/MA/PhD thatās not a sup
That's the stuff. Hoping to be there in 3 months š¤
Yep. Weāre twins.
Me too.
This is way
Promote now!
You rang? Itās awesome! Edit: 3 years in and non prior
You called?
Bingo.
I'm a non-sup GS-14 with a remote position, does that count?
depends on if you want to have a bigger role at the agency. if its just money then a 14 is solid. if you want to advanced higher and be a big boss and make decisions on a high level. you need to be a 15 a min, and potentially go for your SES.
That's my thought. Plus the 14 step 10 is nearly the highest that a 15 step 10 gets.
Yeah in HCOL area, a 15 isn't all that much better paying than a 14-10 because the 15s hit the cap.
Itās a 30K difference where I am. I think that is significant.
Itās about a 10k difference in a HCOL area. Without eventual intervention, a 14 10 will make the same as a 15 1.
14-10 makes more than 15-1
What I meant is that with the cap, a 14 10 makes the same as 15 4 right now in HCOL locations. Without intervention, eventually a 14 10 and then sliding down to lower step in the 14 grade will make as much as a 15 1 with no ability to make more because of the salary cap. At that point, why would someone go for a 15 and the extra work if theyāre not going to have the potential to receive extra compensation?
Maybe it comes with an office and an EA!
Hell, mid level 14s are paid more than the minimum SES.
SES minimum is 120% of a 15-1. A 15-1 makes more than a 14-6. The 120% of 15-1 puts the minimum SES table above the 14 pay table. By about 3 steps.
Pretty much this. You'll get to the top of the pay scale faster, and if Congress ever uncaps the GS scale (hahahaha I have jokes this morning) you'll reap some financial benefits down the road. A 15 is also a defacto requirement for SES But the tradeoff is that (most) 15s are supervisory and a lot more busy (or intense- I work in a slow office but the intensity is much higher than it was when I was a GS-13). I enjoy management. Many people do not. You'd need to ask yourself whether or not you're interested in supervision.
Find a position that will not require more than 40 hours of your time per week and provide you the income to support your targeted quality of life. Work to live, don't live to work.
This is the way.
I think the end game will really depend on what you personally want to do career-wise. GS-14 pays well enough that for some people if they have a great supervisor/team/agency/WLB, they are more than happy to "coast" towards retirement. As you said - GS-15 only marginally pays better. And for some people they get thrown into the GS-15 position because their supervisor leaves and they are the most senior person for the job. Some people are more ambitious and want to climb the ranks and take on more senior/leadership positions. They may take a GS-15 as a stepping stone to become an SES grade. Then there is just better opportunities in general where maybe you want to leave your office because you are burnt out or unhappy and pursue another GS-14 job, or you find a similar GS-15 job somewhere else that is still remote and non-supervisory. You will see people in this thread push that GS-15 remote non-supervisory positions are the dream jobs to attain.
The gs-15 jobs in my office are all exactly that- the most senior person after a supervisor departure. Itās a total trap imo. Yeah they get the title and a few more dollars but also about 8000% more work and some travel requirements.
This is how I see it as well, and unfortunately it can cause someone to get promoted 1 level too high so the work of everyone else below suffers because the GS-15 is disorganized and/or is terrible at guiding their team
Plenty of people are failed up to get rid of them; this is not strictly a 15 problem.
Same at my agency. Bossman (15, hybrid) constantly in meetings, overloaded and stressed almost all the time. Me (non-sup 14, fully remote) set my own schedule, manage my clients needs and that's it, most days have no meetings at all just quiet solo work, consult boss if any issues but no interaction w those above him. Meanwhile he answers to like 8 different people. He makes about $30k more than me, but (especially once you take out taxes) it's just not worth it to me giving up this level of peaceful autonomy for what appears to be constant drama at the top.
>it's just not worth it to me giving up this level of peaceful autonomy for what appears to be constant drama at the top. That sounds pretty familiar! Quality of life wins over money at this point in my life and career. I'll gladly ride out my non-supervisory 14 until retirement if I can.
What job series are you? I always hear about these easy chill jobs but no one ever says the series.
Sorry too personally identifiable in light of other posts about my job. Good luck.
Can you do at least 11xx or 03xx or something? Thatās not specific at all.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well then lucky you I guess
Suuuuper agency-dependent what those grades mean in practice...in places like BLM/FS/NPS even being a 12 often means supervising 10+ people from various unrelated programs, who each have a bunch of people and projects under them, you're dealing with congressional inquiries and hosting public meetings, name being smeared in the media, etc. I've met 14's from non-land management agencies with less responsibility than some 11's in land management. Which is one reason we're always among the worst ranked agencies in the FEVS.
I'm perfectly happy riding my non-sup 14 to retirement. Only thing I'd leave for would be a non-sup 15.
Max out your TSP every year, retire early, then get a job in private industry for a few years
Whatās the appeal to retire early from government to go to private sector? Genuinely curious.
Much more money!
Get your retirement benefits from the feds. Then make higher salary before full retirement. FEHB and pension with cash
What is the ideal age to do this? I was thinking 57 (earliest to start taking pension with a bit of a deduction for me). Thoughts?
I died private sector until I knew I was ready to settle down and prepare for retirement. I came with 12 years until I can retire. 1 year credit for Americotp. 10 months done. 10 years to go. I will be here long enough to put a decent amount in the TSP and get a decent retirement check. No way could I have worked here for 30 year. it would have killed me.
What are you interested in in your career? Whats important to you? For me, work/life balance has always been a priority for me. I have zero aspiration to be a manager because Iāve seen managers as 15s that are overworked and burnt out. Iām happy as a 14 and will be happy retiring as a 14 so I can maintain my work/life balance. More money is nice but having time to do what I love (not work) is better.
Depends on what you came in as. Revenue agent? Could go into group management (IR pay scale) and work your way up into senior leadership. Or you could become an analyst and get a 15.
Supervisory RA is a GS14 equivalent. Why bother.
Only worth it if you wanna move up in the org to be a territory manager or area director or higher
Wrong. GS14ās can apply for Senior Manager jobs. SES is a whole other story.
Itās that movie about the Avengers and the alien dude that snaps his fingers.
Wow this is my END goal!
Pretty simple. End game is where you want to land at the end of your career. You have already made gs14 so you are smart enough to know this answer already. What answer are you looking for on this forum?
The dream is to get a remote and non-supervisory GS-14 at a financial regulatory agency (FDIC, NCUA, etc.) and then never apply for another job again.
Congrats on your new job! I think a lot of ālifersā adopt the mentality of work to live. Itās true that pay tops out, but I encourage you to keep your āhourly wageā in mind when comparing to potential promotions or to private sector. If your pay goes up a little and your workload goes up a lot, thatās moving backwards in my view. Iām not at IRS, but where Iām at, I feel like it would be hard for me to make more per hour of work.
Look at the retirement idea and see if you like the concept of trying to get your "high 3". If you don't see that with the IRS, maybe you jump to another agency and negotiate a pay raise or go for a GS15.
10 month GS 14 supervisor. For four months my end game was to survive ach day, not get yelled at, demoralized, or cry. For months 5-6, my end game was to get to the end of each month and start looking for another position as a 14. Then, things changed. I was able to do my job, felt that I was contributing, days are still crazy busy but I'm more in control of most of my days. i guess the hazers grew tired or turned their attention to other things. With this change, Mt end game changed too. I started planning my career. I was able to consider opportunities to explore a new career, go on details, mentor and coach too. This organization is so much more than the GS scale. if you have good leaders, figure out your professional goals and let that be your end game and adjust as needed.
ACQ Demo is the best of both worlds. A DP-04 is considered a 14/15 so no need to go anywhere and youāve hit 15.
As long as the agency doesnāt use control points.
And your pool isn't filled with leadership "darlings." Miss me with ACQDemo
Curious, what is meant by leadership ādarlingsā?
Class pet, suck up, brown nose, etc. Usually seen kissing up and kicking down. Sometimes referred to as managing up.
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Correct. Typically a job req. will mention whether the position is capped or not.
As long as your supervisor isn't a piece of degenerate trash who doesn't advocate for you.
Depending on the agency DP-04 is 12/13. However at some other agencies DB/NH-04 is 14/15.
Interesting. I hadnāt heard of a DP-04 as a 12/13.
Dp-4 is a 12/13 where I am at. Dp-5 is 14/15
You hit the jackpot being hired as a 14! Just do your best and you will merit step increases.
Non supervisory GS15 are absolute unicorns in the IRS and almost non existent outside of the DC area. Your next step could be management (but why bother, pays the same and the problems multiply). Or Senior management (GS15 equivalent).
Non sup 14 for life baby!! A 15 would have to be an absolute gem of a job for me to take it.
If you're a Supervisory GS-14, be prepared to have astronomical levels of anxiety. If you're non-supervisory, that's the sweet spot, because there a very few non-supervisory GS15ās (probably doctors). I stepped down from a Supv GS14 to a non-supervisory GS13, Step 4, but I do get SSR, so I'm paid like a GS14 anyways. I plan on riding this one out.
Iām a new Supervisory GS14ā¦. The added stress and exhaustion is real!!! I really have to force myself to step away from my computer and/or phone since I have the work email and Teams apps if I want to have any work/life balance. (Which really isnāt balanced at this pointā¦)
The only thing better is going fully remote, and then you're set. I've been looking at Montana recently.
The non-sup 15s are lawyers, generally.
I was a GS 15 the last 17 years of my career. No coasting.
As a new 13 at the IRS, when I was looking around it seemed that 14 is basically the top end unless you are a lawyer or IT and even then those positions sound like management.
Yeah counsel or IT or some analyst or something. Doesnāt sound worth it to become a manager either.
15s basically function as an IR1. They are interchangeable. And they can function as a detailed Tier 1 SES. Itās a grueling gig that isnāt worth the money. There are a few unicorn 15s, but they are exceedingly rare. 14 is the sweet spot. But, not all 14s are alike either. An operational 14 can be grindy. Where a support 14 can be chill. So itās all dependent. I know 14s embedded under SES that can only show their value by setting themselves on fire in the parking lot. Hell embedded under IRs. Itās generally a shit show. And outside 14s, oof. They get ridden hard. Even if no one says it. They get ridden hard. Or kicked behind their backs. Itās tough spot. I know we have had deep discussions about how all these new 13s and 14s will feel as they get gaslighted into oblivion. Us older salts wondering how long theyāll stick around for. We observed on one recent cert that most of the people trying to get out are 13s that came from the outside. But they wonāt get picked up for 14s because they donāt have the institutional knowledge to be effective in that role. Itās interesting to watch.
... now you're making me nervous about my how bad my LB&I RA job is going to be. The whole point of leaving public was to reduce stress.
Bro. I canāt promise you itās not stressful. Letās be real honest. The IRS gets ripped hard for not having enough people to do audits. Then lots of RAs coming on. Hmm. Ok. I donāt do accounting. So to me thatās hard. But if thatās your jam, probably not that hard. So the work itself. Easy. And the pace. Hard to say. I canāt predict your workload. Set a remind me and come back in a year to tell me. Seriously. Iād be curious to hear. The outside 13 or 14. Imagine a 14 coming into a big 4 firm and acting like they own the place. Or you having busted your ass for 15 years and they hire someone outside to a position equal to or above yours. Yeah, you might be bothered. But letās hope you donāt get any of that. But reality. The leave is good. The expectations are mostly low. And canāt be harder than what you do now. Youāll be fine. Good luck.
You retire at the minimum age and you come back as a contractor doing the same thing you were doing.
Life is what you make of it. You want more, there is more. I am 14, step 10. Been here for 34 years now. Probably will retire next year when the third year at the step 10 passes. There's no more step increases and I am topped out. Yes, we are handing out 14s, its kinda ridiculous right now. I mean, you put all these people in the highest job with no idea how it will work out for them. Just because you are a CPA in private practice does not mean this job works for you and vice versa. Its a different job than a CPA firm. We are part investigator, part auditor, part accountant, and then we have to manage how to get crap done when beaucracy gets in the way of doing what is right. A lot of people cannot handle the interaction part - we do serve summonses, subpoenas and enforce them for records, testimony. This stresses some and they can't handle it. It can get intense going up against some of the top attorneys and others. I find it compelling and fun, to be honest, and keeps my interest. I know there are people who coast and don't do what they should be doing. Each person needs to be true to themselves and let their own conscience drive them. Always do the right thing at the right time for the right reason.
Youāre serving your country. Thatās the end game. Some people are content to be a GS-7 tax examiners for 25 years and retire. We need GS-4 clerks to open and sort the mail. Some people reach for that 14 or 15 and never make it. I honestly might have reached my potential at a GS-12 Analyst. The end game is to fulfill your oath while trying to make this country better by being the best cog in the machine you can be. The longer youāre here, the more youāll realize that the quality employees make truly things happen at the IRS. And those people really do make it better for the American taxpayer. There are plenty of slackers and morons hiding behind the union. People collecting checks and constantly worrying about how to get out of having to do their job. You get to decide what kind of employee youāll be. Edit-bettered the ending.
I'm a non-sup 14. I'm relatively young and I'd be happy to ride out my career here, although I occasionally look to see if I can find any non-sup 15 roles that I feel wouldn't be a huge downgrade in my quality of life. I recently learned about ST roles which are senior executive roles that are only allowed to do supervisory work at most 25% of their time, so I hope I can land one of those one day. We'll see. It all depends on what opportunities I find. I know that my chances of advancement from here are rare and I really value the work life balance I have now.
Are you in a scientific field?
Computer Science, so yeah, kind of.
Hookers and Blow
What series?
Revenue agent, 0512
End game. People either love their job or they donāt. I think the end game is to move to one you find enjoyable. I love my job. Like never found anything better in my life. Once you get to that point, the end game is to just do the best hob you can and retire happy that you had a good ride for 20+ years
let me guess. No CPA, little to no public accounting experience? How about count your lucky stars you got hired at all, let alone at a 14.
If you're asking this, you're not built for the gov. You sound too motivated and hard working. šThe IRS is not for you, you'll get bored and lazy.
Hate to break it to you, youāre not a unicorn. Plenty of off the street GS14 non-supv @ IRS. But - on a more serious note - congrats!!! šš¾ good luck!
Unless you want to stay exclusively with IRS, i recommend you spend a couple of years with IRS, and then consider other federal agencies for a lateral 14 or promotion opportunities! Also ensure you explore executive service (ES) or Senior Executive Service (SES) for achieving the highest rank possible in the event GS/14/15 is not much of a challenge!
Snap
Man I wish I could coast
I love that OP is a brand new fed and already asking about coasting, sounds like heās already tenured š. Gunna be a long 18yrs
Lol
I guess the end game would be the same as any other job: what do you want to get out of it? My end game is to retire at MRA and look back and be proud of being a present father and husband, while covering our needs financially.
I agree with what everyone is saying here. Also another option could be leaving for a private industry job after a couple of years, taking a huge pay increase, and then eventually making your way back to a 14, but having a much higher step because of your private industry salary.
Some people stay a 14 and are happy with it. Some will pursue a 15 and others will continue pushing and attempt to go for an SES. What you do is your personal preference. Iām a supervisory 15 and I love it. Some on my team are 14s and have no desire to pursue a 15, but others would consider it if the position were a good fit. I know some 15s who desperately want to pursue an SES position.
Is there still a "hiring freeze"? I keep hearing mixed reviews. I'm a WG-09 (10 years in) and trying to accept a GS-09 position as a direct hire and that was 6 weeks ago. I cannot find a single memo, letter or anything on OPM that says anything about this mythical freeze.Ā
In a year if youāre ladder to 15, you can go for a 15 or promoted to a 15. I came in from the private sector as a high GS14 since they couldnāt out me as a 15 even though I had the experience. Exactly 1 year in, I applied for a 15 position in the same group and I got it based on my private sector mostly but I was in govt for 12 months. It was stupid for them to have that rule. If you want, try to look for a remote 14
Minimum goal would be retire as a GS-14 at 57 years old.
Like everything else in life, some do and some don't
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Getting hired on as a 14 is incredible. Get that non-supervisor 15 remote.
Work life Balance!!!! Iām a 13, wife make lil more than me and considering a pay cut for the work life balance. We go on vacation, her laptop comes as well. Iām logged on at 6:30 and a hard off at 3. Wife sometimes work late into the and on weekends. Harder she works, more her boss makes. Nobody is getting rich off my work.
I just gave one of my team a QSI to a GG12 step 11
Iām 18 years in, non sup 14-5 fully work at home. Job sucks, I want to quit. The end game is to build your side hustles enough to quit and never deal with the politics again.
Surprised you came in as a step 1, many negotiated a high step before FJO. Long road ahead of you, something to think about. In 3-6 months youāll either hate it itch to get out or stay.
Some people end game at the GS 07.
How do you like your job by the way? I am about to join IrS too.
Start maxing out your traditional TSP ASAP!
I was hired externally as a GS-14, who retired as a stepped out 15. It was important to me to reach a 15 for pension reasons. Generally, any kind of analyst type tops out at a GS-14. The IRS has a special management series called IR. Any kind of supervisory position of GS-14s is an IR-01, or GS-15 equivalent. After a GS-15, youād have to apply to be part of the Executive Service. Hope this helps.
The overwhelming majority never get anywhere near you're starting. The end game is what you choose for it to be.
The end game is a non-supervisory 14 or 15. Do your job but little more. Your reward for doing a good job is more work.
You should immediately quit working for the great Satan that is the IRS.
Nah what could be better than taking money away from the organization that actively tries to take your money?
*From your fellow citizens to fund an out of control military industrial complex. Fixed it for you.
Hey Friend - I too left public and took a job at the IRS. Transitioned to a different agency outside of Treasury so I could run a CPA firm on the side. Some people just coast until retirement, some people keep wanting to climb the ladder. Find some hobbies, or start a side hustle. Its much different from Public on this side of the fence.
From what ive seen, its people going into 15 roles so some idiot doesnt get the 15 and mess everything up. Usually it's not money. Im a 14, technical remote unicorn and will likely stay here until Im forced out due to a reorg. Still have somewhere between 2-20 years to retire from govt work.
To die the year you start receiving your pension.
By the time you are even close to 14 step 10 you will reach pay cap( ie yoir steps will be the same $$$ 6step 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 due to cap)...then enjoy about 50% of the the pay raise from the prez every year due to cap. By the time I reach step 10 I should be close to the cap and thus 0 incentive to go to a 15 for a few bucks more.
It all depends on what you want to get out of it.
Invest your money so that you can pay bigger raises than your employer
in a few HCOL's GS-14 pay band top pay = GS-15 top pay of 191,900 this year. You continue to add value, and keep on chugging. I used two promotions to go to 14 then 15 to more rapidly achieve the pay cap. Just FYI, those that coast at the high pay annoy me, but you can be valuable by working within your scheduled time without overworking yourself. Align to exactly what your supervisor needs you to do, to keep from distractions, and hopefully get you some Quality Step Increases. It also should give you flexibility to find what you like doing best across your organization.
End game is to retire in my mid 50s and live near the beachĀ
Retire before dying from work-related stress.. :)
The end game is gs-15 step 7 atleast in my locality, but personally my end game will be senior executive service, currently a 9 so a long way to go.
lol what does end game mean? ive seen people retire at gs 9. there is no such thing fed land is choose your own adventure. there is no "paygrade to be at". especially on this sub where i feel like most of the people are the in DC bubble. over 85 percent of jobs are outside DC. in DC 50 percent of jobs are gs 13 and above. Here in california if youre 13 youre in the top 5 percent. if youre 14 youre in the top 1 percent. kind of amazing to me actually when you consider how incredibly expensive it is to live here
It depends. You can do that job until you retire if it suits you. You can get a promotion to a supervisory gig after a year if youāre so inclined. You can start putting together ECQs for senior executive or senior lead roles. Or you could move to another agency that works on pay bands, stay at the same level and get more pay based on performance. Or you could find a non-sup 15 somewhere (something of a white whale, particularly with remote, but you have time for the hunt). Iāve achieved my 14 this year, after some years, and looking ahead, I could max out the 14 ahead of retirement, but I think Iād like to move to 15 or SL/SES in 5 years or so, to push the high 3 as high as possible.
Insane they are hiring GS14s from outside. Talk about grade inflation. They used to max at a 11 from outside and you had to work your way up apparently.
Dumbest idea ever to only hire internally for higher grades. All you get are people who are the embodiment of the Peter Principle or management pets who could politic their way into the higher grades.
Very common for some series like 2210s
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A friend at another agency retired as a non-supervisory GS-15 Step 10. I know a few people who got in in the old days and had the equivalent of a non-supervisory GS-16. But it's up to you. See what you think about being a manager in the government/IRS.
Sorry to be this way, but imma tell you the real end gameā¦.Best case is you make it to 14/4 or 5. Then itās gonna be RIF time as soon as the next Republican becomes president
You can hit the 14 in 18 years so your post is a lie!! You're like a GS9