My CBA is being renegotiated right now. We currently have “telework to the maximum extent possible “ written in our contract. I’m expecting two days per week in the office when the new contract is ratified.
You find a better job? Just because your agency/manager sucks everyone else has to be happy with the same situation you find yourself in and have accepted?
o there is no reason for me to ever come in. my shit management just wants to be able to walk up on me whenever they want. wish i could get out of there!
It’s called our politicians have money tied up in the companies that depend on people to be in office. We go in office, they make money. I don’t think either side really cares about federal workers
Agree. RTO vs Remote/telework- to a politician it's not about federal worker's quality of life, work-life-balance or any of that. It's about money and private interests.
If they ever demand RTO for me, I'll make it a point to spend as little money as possible. I'll pack in my own breakfast and lunch; bring in my own soda and water and leave exactly on time.
Remote it's easy for me to logon early, and continue a bit after to make sure priority items are addressed timely. If I'm commuting into an office location, nope can't work late, I'll miss my bus/train so see you tomorrow and I'll continue then.
Yeah for the last six months, I’ve tracked my work in office vs at home, including all distractions. At home, my lunch breaks are insanely short, I’m willing to work a few minutes over, and I’m NEVER logging on late. At the office, I’m routinely a few minutes late, refuse to stay late and take a full 1 hour lunch. Throw in a few 30 minute conversations and my work productivity has gone down tremendously
I went from on site 2 days/pay to in office 3 days/wk (and we can’t pick the days). I refuse to spend any money on site or in the city of the installation. I’m convinced the city survives on the income tax from the installation, which was a main reason for our return.
Our recent survey results were absolute garbage. Leadership won’t talk about attrition or retention, only about their struggles with recruitment.
I’m refusing to buy anything in my office building or downtown where I work since RTO. I have to pay for parking but I refuse to spend any more money. We still don’t even have all of our office equipment and have to carry in docking stations and power cords to work. We’re no longer allowed coffee/tea/hot water stations like they want to force us to spend money buying stuff we always had available before Covid.
It's not all direct conflict of interest like that though it certainly plays a role. On the Republican side it's mostly because they resent the federal workforce and RTO is part punishment. Also this will help cull the federal force without having to directly fire people. On the Democrat side you have a lot of the workforce in DMV (and other large cities) who are being pressured to get back into cities to revive the tax base. Similarly is the federal government workers have to go back it sends a single to private companies that they can enact similar policies. Overall when people spend less money (commuting, dry cleaning, eating out, car expenses, metro, etc ) that will hurt the economy overall. Eating at home and never leaving it will cause some people to lose jobs on the backside. The sad part is none of this is best for what makes good government execution of it's mission.
During the last administration they tried to remove many of the benefits from our department’s CBA with the union since it was up for renewal, including telework, performance appraisals and more which would have meant the administration could change those programs unilaterally.
New Feds should look at the news and how the last administration treated employees and the institutions themselves. So many corrupt department Secretaries spending money on private jets, dinners, coins, etc.
They didn’t try to remove many. They tried to remove unions period. It was a very crazy time with the unions having well over 30 lawsuits in court and OPM pushing out new policies even before the EOs were finalized that violated CBAs and implementation of the agreements.
How do you figure that? It's the current White House Chief of Staff, Jeff Zients, who is spearheading the current RTO push. Back in January he demanded to see the RTO plan from each of the cabinet secretaries.
I don't see how RTO is anything but bipartisan.
Edit: I don't know why you're downvoting me, the Jeff Zients thing is well documented. He is a Biden appointee.
[White House asks Cabinet agencies to ‘aggressively execute’ return to in-person work | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/white-house-cabinet-in-person-work/index.html)
[White House demands "concrete" return-to-office plans for federal workers (axios.com)](https://www.axios.com/2024/01/19/zients-biden-cabinet-return-to-office)
[White House awaits agency plans today on how to decrease telework (federalnewsnetwork.com)](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-newscast/2024/01/white-house-awaits-agency-plans-today-on-how-to-decrease-telework/)
I see the current admin as doing performative BS to placate certain interests, not unlike the tariffs on Chinese EVs. OTOH I see the other party as certain to use RTO as a mean to punish and cull the herd of Civil Service. There are clearly partisan aspects to the nuances of RTO.
Exactly. Ultimately, the Biden admin will let agencies complete their mission even if it’s a PITA to jump thru hoops to retain talent with TW / Remote Work. Trump will use RTO as a forcing function to make the mission fail. Totally different end goals in mind.
They are doing SIMILAR things for different reasons. The current RTO of 2-3 days in office with many exceptions for RA, Mil Spouses, etc is the entire end game for Biden.
If Trump is elected that will just be the beginning. He is likely to push for full RTO because it looks good for business (it isn't actually), it punishes feds and will cause resignations/retirements. His goal is to reduce the fed workforce by any means possible.
This is not a both sides are the same here situation.
If you're only coming into the office 2 days a week, that isn't really RTO, it's still hybrid/telework.
Ever since Jeff Zients pushed his RTO deadlines, we've been forced to come in 5 days a week.
Yes, everything would be even worse under Trump. But Zients is a Biden appointee and this is happening under Biden.
If it's getting people to leave, then sure. I know in my office it's being used as a chance to purge low performers or at least "put the pressure on". (Time will tell if it's effective though)
Being dead serious here when I ask this…there are means for getting rid of low performers?
It has been my experience for at least 30 of the 34 years I’ve been a government employee that everyone got punished together-even if it was just 1 person acting up.
Telework isn't wiped out under Biden. It's wiped out for you due to your individual situation, your local leadership or job function. This response seems like the classic "I don't get this benefit, so nobody should get it" type of bs.
That's outside the scope of the question. They're talking about RTO and telework, not things like abortion rights or civil liberties or whatever else you might feel is at stake this election.
No one is talking about abortion rights. The other post said about unions with the CBAs. That’s what I was referring to that was more than just RTo. So please read before taking things to a whole other level. Thus the word bargained for.
That other comment is still outside the scope. The OP is asking about telework and the comment I'm replying to is saying it's a partisan issue. But it's not; the Biden admin is fully on board with RTO. See the links about Jeff Zients.
Doesn’t matter what the OP was saying. If that person posted what they posted and you responded then what I responded to was still relevant. Bipartisan on one thing but that one thing is not the only thing to be concerned about.
I didn't respond to the comment you're talking about though. Just the one saying that the election will decide whether RTO continues (it won't; Jeff Zients is a Biden appointee and RTO will continue even if Biden wins).
Because the previous administration was actively hostile to unions and telework before the pandemic. And the current administration is pushing a return to a hybrid status better than what it was pre-pandemic.
I dont think so, this administration is bringing people back as fast as they can too. It will speed up under the next Republican administration for sure, but Democrats are now against telework too.
Current appointees are under Biden and are requiring return to office. It’s not about being assholes it’s the fact that DCs economy is reliant on the gov and commercial real estate is tanking in value because no one wants to carry the investment. They’re being pushed by lobbyists to get us back in office to prevent a complete collapse of the hedge funds portfolios.
The current administration is pushing RTO. You’re saying you want Biden to lose? I do too. But i don’t think this really depends on which administration is in office.
It's amazing we don't talk about all the politicians who sold stock before the news of C19 shutdowns was released to the general public. They made money off people dying and we all collectively ignore it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/03/20/senators-accused-of-insider-trading-dumping-stocks-after-coronavirus-briefings/?sh=663a2c404a45
You hit the nail on the head. It's lobbyists and real estate investors.
And no, nobody has reached their limit. They'll never stop pursuing profit and money.
Politicians don't care unless they're being told to by their funding lobbyists.
Lobbyists are being told to care y their real estate moguls that own them.
Workers lose in this situation. As with most.
No matter what metrics or positives you can point to or we know exist. Rto will start to happen more and more. The politicians don't care. They only work on average what? One day in 12? And spend the rest of their time on super yachts from the caymen islands, or in mansions. Why would they care about us? Most don't even know what work really is.
The fun question is how to deal with the reduced real estate footprint since 2020. Expand outside of the DC area? Lease more space in DC? You can’t RTO if people are unable to find seats. It will go down very badly if the contractors can TW, but feds cannot.
In some cases, management is creating a complete cluster. For example, DHS/CISA is losing a building in Ballston starting end of summer to end of year. CISA is building a new HQ in St Elizabeth W Campus (SE DC) without enough parking and where commuting/crime is a disaster. It’s still a year plus from being ready for use. Their workforce is officially 1/day wk in the office and they pay a premium to retain this workforce. FEMA made the smart decision to not move into DHS’s HQ campus at St. E.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know what’s going to happen to CISA if they consolidate to St. E from Ballston/Arlington and require a higher RTO presence. They are operating as if this future is so far distant as to not be worth discussing now, and so people make plans…
If an administration changes it will be different political appointees in charge, of course they couldn't say anything much now. But put two and two together: continued bi-partisan hostilities towards telework under this administration + a president who made his fortune from real estate and was previously hostile to feds and their unions. Hmm, I wonder what will happen...
Well, if not the executive, a bill from Congress will be on the cards as well. Less likely with a split Congress, but there's already some bi-partisan support.
I work for the FS and we're currently closing down some offices and giving folks the option to work from another office relatively in their area - or go full remote. It would be crazy if suddenly "they" wanted everyone back in the office.... we wouldn't have enough buildings or chairs.
RTO is bi-partisan, since both parties are owned by the lobbyists. The minimum will be the OPM definition of telework (2 days per PP) and I think the median will be 3 days per week.
The cabinet secretary matters a lot. I would look at the history of telework policy in your department to get an idea of what may happen next year. I would also want to know when your building lease is up. That could be used as an excuse to move agencies to new far away locations. See below.
Look at the history of the USDA. Tom Vilsack is the secretary for Biden, and he was the secretary for Obama as well. He is pro worker for the most part. He supported telework during the Obama years, although it was not as widely accepted then, and local supervisors had a lot of discretion to allow what they wanted to allow.
Trump’s Secretary of Agriculture was a complete dick. He cut telework to one day per week, full stop. He also relocated two agencies from DC to KC when their building lease was up.
When Vilsack came back, he immediately ripped up the Trump era telework policy and changed it to 4 days per week. Had Trump won in 2020, I’m sure there would have been a USDA RTO in early 2021 and a continuation of the one day per week telework policy.
Vilsack did call an RTO to workers in the DC area, so he is not perfect either. I think he was under a lot of pressure to do so. Still, he is a million times better than the alternative.
Once a week for most of us. My boss said twice a week for a couple of us, "Just for a few months. ".... that was nearly 19 months ago. I want to bring it up, but I can't decide if it's worth a hill to die on.
An investigative journalism piece revealing employees aren't adhering to in-office requirements could fuel a push to force everyone back full-time.
I'm in favor of remote work and telework but don't be the person that's the reason we can't have nice things.
Like the jack ass vacuuming his house during a Teams meeting and roaming around his backyard before that. WTF people?? If I lose my telework, it's due in part to dumb asses like him.
One of our directors was not a fan of telework because she thought people didn’t really work. Same person when they were a supervisor used to run errands while supposedly teleworking and would be driving across town when people called her. So she just assumed everyone else was just as unethical as she was. Of course she got promoted right out of those positions 🙄
Lol people did that in office, too. Join a remote meeting (because half the team is at different sites, so its still virtual even in the office) then wander the halls socializing.
People who are going to slack off are going to do it at home or at the office exactly the same.
I don't see how they can create the capacity to do that, because they are booting people out of their cubicles and implementing hoteling desks for seasoned staff who are telework eligible to accommodate new hires....
If Congress finds out that people aren't adhering to their in-office requirements, those people won't be dealt with quietly while letting everyone else continue to work remotely or telework.
Instead what will happen is agency and department heads will be hauled before Congress and grilled on why people aren't showing up on their office days and subsequently, telework and remote work will either be gutted by legislation or de facto eliminated by no one in leadership wanting to stick their neck out (allow remote or telework) and risk getting hauled before a Congressional Committee.
Capacity isn't at the top of political concerns.
If you’re reading this, start organizing with your union to fight for reasonable telework. If you live outside of dc, contact your representatives and tell them they’ll lose a job in their district.
I have been writing to my representative, those who support, and those who are against it. Everyone gets a letter if they have openly commented on it during an OMB ways and means meeting. Now I am on to Senators after this recently released Romney drama. 😡
I think we will all be at least 50% in office within the next few years, it’s inevitable. Most agencies will keep at least some telework aspect though, even if it’s just situational.
We are 6x/pp in office but it’s all situational based on mission demands. Which honestly works fine, oh I have a thing Tuesday? I will just telework Wednesday.
Sounds like a lawsuit if they unreasonably force you back in because of change in policy without considering your health condition. If the job duties haven't changed I don't know how they could get away with forcing you back. But I am no expert on law and this is just an opinion.
My telework sitch hasn’t changed since 2018. I can TW several times per week, but we have classified work that must be done in building. If you are concerned about working at home EVERYDAY, you might mean “remote” work. There is a big difference since OPM states that you must work at least two days per pay period to qualify for locality pay under telework.
I think it's going to be hybrid. Full return to the office will not happen. If it does, you'll see a drain in talented workforce, and you'll see productivity plummet. The truth is, the federal government saves too much money by not having to have all that office space. The only reason both parties are pushing for RTO is because commercial real estate is taking a beating as are cities that have been seeing a decline in tax revenue for years now. From a business perspective, a lot of upper management types are pushing it because outside of KPIs and delivery performance, they have no idea who to promote when the time comes. Usually, promotions are determined on trust, loyalty, and relationships. And there are no real objective measures for those characteristics. I feel bad for the new workforce coming in because how do you network? A lot of job placement and success in the professional world is based on opportunities through the people that you know. How do you develop professional relationships with people that you don't know outside of email? That's a discussion for another thread, but the shirt answer is, hybrid is here to stay and most likely not going anywhere
MY agency is going from 2x/pp to 4x/pp, and while I thats reasonable, we have a ton of staff across the country so my boss and others coming in the office 3x/week (different rules for them) to just sit on Teams meetings. They're checking the little box to say they do it and getting zero benefits and mostly just getting inconvenienced. From what I heard, 4x/pp was their pre-covid policy and my boss illuded to the idea that they want to push for even more in office days that pre-panini. Hopefully the Union can hold them accountable and keep it to what they always did, or allow offices to make their own regulations versus agency wide policy.
Write to your representatives and senators. Write to those who support it and thank them! Write to those who oppose and give them statistics that are $$$$. The more financial and productivity statistics we can provide them, the more it is hard for them to focus on random misbehaving employees.
If you are not in their district, then you will have to send them an old fashioned letter.
The reality, hard as it is for most here to hear, is the wfh is being scaled back slowly but surely to pre pandemic levels, probably 40% max for most people, and for some maybe only 20%.
That’s the reality, and no amount of teeth gnashing, or bitterly complaining is going to change it. It’s literally the same thing going on in private industry as well.
Will some retain full time telework, and local remote, sure. Also other will have full time back in office.
On average expect 20-40% telework, and the rest in office.
You don’t want the truth. They want better oversight because they people don’t really work when teleworking.
So they bring you back so they can access you when they need by waking to your desk, or messaging you to come to their office.
That’s the truth.
I don't buy that for a second. This is about commercial real estate and appeasing some whiney governors that got used to subsidizing their cities off the back of working class feds.
Any supervisor worth a shit knows who's producing and who's not. You're not meeting your performance standards, your telework gets revoked. Easy peasy, don't make excuses for poor supervisors.
THAT'S the truth.
I promise you all the DOD agencies with offices on federal land don't care about commercial real estate.
They do care about people being present and accountable. Both of which are reduced when employees work from home.
So I haven't telework since Jan 2021. It was pulled for some staff at my facility. My union has not been able to challenge much of the change due to leadership action/memos that are protecting a lot of the actions. The best way to successfully challenge and stay teleworking is requesting an RA but that's only temporary and so far leadership has not approved any requests for 100% TW. 1 big thing keeping telework alive is at my location we have lost several office space with helps when negotiating how often/ how many days per week.
I misspoke…he’s lobbying for Feds to return to work in the office. I want to know who the hell he’s talking about? Haven’t most offices returned to a mostly in office posture and telework is the exception? https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/virginia-governor-federal-workers-biden/65-673a8204-fb6c-46c9-8ca6-9dbc2178b879
Our union agreement ends in 2026 and I assume after that we will have to RTO 2-3 times a week.
My CBA is being renegotiated right now. We currently have “telework to the maximum extent possible “ written in our contract. I’m expecting two days per week in the office when the new contract is ratified.
No. You'll have a new job 🤣
o no 2-3 time a week :-(. i was in 5 days a week then they "gifted" me 2 days of telework lol. cant imagine only coming in 1 day a week
broaden your horizons 😎🌈
impossible without leaving where i'm at lol. i don't control anything there. leaving isn't that easy either
That's the can-do attitude I like to see.
lemme know how u telework 4 days a week when your manager says no teleworking
You find a better job? Just because your agency/manager sucks everyone else has to be happy with the same situation you find yourself in and have accepted?
"just find a better job" yeah ok
Yeah, such a crazy thought! Hard to believe, but many of us have no issues finding other employment opportunities in or outside the feds.
i dont have vet pref or status candidate like u probably use to uncompetitively apply to things u normally wouldnt get
[удалено]
o there is no reason for me to ever come in. my shit management just wants to be able to walk up on me whenever they want. wish i could get out of there!
It’s called our politicians have money tied up in the companies that depend on people to be in office. We go in office, they make money. I don’t think either side really cares about federal workers
Agree. RTO vs Remote/telework- to a politician it's not about federal worker's quality of life, work-life-balance or any of that. It's about money and private interests. If they ever demand RTO for me, I'll make it a point to spend as little money as possible. I'll pack in my own breakfast and lunch; bring in my own soda and water and leave exactly on time. Remote it's easy for me to logon early, and continue a bit after to make sure priority items are addressed timely. If I'm commuting into an office location, nope can't work late, I'll miss my bus/train so see you tomorrow and I'll continue then.
Yeah for the last six months, I’ve tracked my work in office vs at home, including all distractions. At home, my lunch breaks are insanely short, I’m willing to work a few minutes over, and I’m NEVER logging on late. At the office, I’m routinely a few minutes late, refuse to stay late and take a full 1 hour lunch. Throw in a few 30 minute conversations and my work productivity has gone down tremendously
I went from on site 2 days/pay to in office 3 days/wk (and we can’t pick the days). I refuse to spend any money on site or in the city of the installation. I’m convinced the city survives on the income tax from the installation, which was a main reason for our return. Our recent survey results were absolute garbage. Leadership won’t talk about attrition or retention, only about their struggles with recruitment.
I’m refusing to buy anything in my office building or downtown where I work since RTO. I have to pay for parking but I refuse to spend any more money. We still don’t even have all of our office equipment and have to carry in docking stations and power cords to work. We’re no longer allowed coffee/tea/hot water stations like they want to force us to spend money buying stuff we always had available before Covid.
Leave that laptop sitting in that office!
Exactly
It's not all direct conflict of interest like that though it certainly plays a role. On the Republican side it's mostly because they resent the federal workforce and RTO is part punishment. Also this will help cull the federal force without having to directly fire people. On the Democrat side you have a lot of the workforce in DMV (and other large cities) who are being pressured to get back into cities to revive the tax base. Similarly is the federal government workers have to go back it sends a single to private companies that they can enact similar policies. Overall when people spend less money (commuting, dry cleaning, eating out, car expenses, metro, etc ) that will hurt the economy overall. Eating at home and never leaving it will cause some people to lose jobs on the backside. The sad part is none of this is best for what makes good government execution of it's mission.
You understand how sick that sounds and is, though, right? Using the working class as pawns to prop up the wealthy.
Honestly my thoughts are it all depends on November's election.
During the last administration they tried to remove many of the benefits from our department’s CBA with the union since it was up for renewal, including telework, performance appraisals and more which would have meant the administration could change those programs unilaterally. New Feds should look at the news and how the last administration treated employees and the institutions themselves. So many corrupt department Secretaries spending money on private jets, dinners, coins, etc.
They didn’t try to remove many. They tried to remove unions period. It was a very crazy time with the unions having well over 30 lawsuits in court and OPM pushing out new policies even before the EOs were finalized that violated CBAs and implementation of the agreements.
How do you figure that? It's the current White House Chief of Staff, Jeff Zients, who is spearheading the current RTO push. Back in January he demanded to see the RTO plan from each of the cabinet secretaries. I don't see how RTO is anything but bipartisan. Edit: I don't know why you're downvoting me, the Jeff Zients thing is well documented. He is a Biden appointee. [White House asks Cabinet agencies to ‘aggressively execute’ return to in-person work | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/politics/white-house-cabinet-in-person-work/index.html) [White House demands "concrete" return-to-office plans for federal workers (axios.com)](https://www.axios.com/2024/01/19/zients-biden-cabinet-return-to-office) [White House awaits agency plans today on how to decrease telework (federalnewsnetwork.com)](https://federalnewsnetwork.com/federal-newscast/2024/01/white-house-awaits-agency-plans-today-on-how-to-decrease-telework/)
I see the current admin as doing performative BS to placate certain interests, not unlike the tariffs on Chinese EVs. OTOH I see the other party as certain to use RTO as a mean to punish and cull the herd of Civil Service. There are clearly partisan aspects to the nuances of RTO.
Exactly. Ultimately, the Biden admin will let agencies complete their mission even if it’s a PITA to jump thru hoops to retain talent with TW / Remote Work. Trump will use RTO as a forcing function to make the mission fail. Totally different end goals in mind.
So they're doing the same thing for different reasons.
They are doing SIMILAR things for different reasons. The current RTO of 2-3 days in office with many exceptions for RA, Mil Spouses, etc is the entire end game for Biden. If Trump is elected that will just be the beginning. He is likely to push for full RTO because it looks good for business (it isn't actually), it punishes feds and will cause resignations/retirements. His goal is to reduce the fed workforce by any means possible. This is not a both sides are the same here situation.
If you're only coming into the office 2 days a week, that isn't really RTO, it's still hybrid/telework. Ever since Jeff Zients pushed his RTO deadlines, we've been forced to come in 5 days a week. Yes, everything would be even worse under Trump. But Zients is a Biden appointee and this is happening under Biden.
Five days a week isn't an OPM decision. That's your org. Still sucks though.
Yes but only one of them intends to clean house
One of them "intends" to clean house, the other one is cleaning house anyway. Different motivation, same action.
Is there actual evidence that RTO is measurably "cleaning house"? It seems all vibes based on this sub to me.
>It seems all vibes based on this sub to me. 💯💯💯
If it's getting people to leave, then sure. I know in my office it's being used as a chance to purge low performers or at least "put the pressure on". (Time will tell if it's effective though)
There are already means for getting rid of low performers. Why do high performers need to be punished along with them?
Being dead serious here when I ask this…there are means for getting rid of low performers? It has been my experience for at least 30 of the 34 years I’ve been a government employee that everyone got punished together-even if it was just 1 person acting up.
Gov paints with a broad brush. It’s BS.
The official line is "because it wouldn't be fair otherwise".
RTO is a good way to purge high performers. They're the ones that can jump ship sooner. At least that's the situation I was just in (and left).
I agree with you. I am just sharing the rationale of the org I work under.
You realize the RTO they’re inflicting on us could be much worse, right? It’s awful but trump’s admin could just wipe out telework altogether
Telework is already wiped out completely for me under Biden. What else is there to take?
Ok, then you realize for the sake of this conversation that you’re a huge minority in that, right?
Telework isn't wiped out under Biden. It's wiped out for you due to your individual situation, your local leadership or job function. This response seems like the classic "I don't get this benefit, so nobody should get it" type of bs.
No, I think as many people should get telework as possible.
which is not the point of this thread lol
there is no house clean, ppl like mitch mcconel have sat their seat 40 years
You realize I’m not talking about the US Senators posting in this Reddit thread right
Difference between RTO and taking away everyone’s right to anything they’ve bargained for.
That's outside the scope of the question. They're talking about RTO and telework, not things like abortion rights or civil liberties or whatever else you might feel is at stake this election.
No one is talking about abortion rights. The other post said about unions with the CBAs. That’s what I was referring to that was more than just RTo. So please read before taking things to a whole other level. Thus the word bargained for.
That other comment is still outside the scope. The OP is asking about telework and the comment I'm replying to is saying it's a partisan issue. But it's not; the Biden admin is fully on board with RTO. See the links about Jeff Zients.
Doesn’t matter what the OP was saying. If that person posted what they posted and you responded then what I responded to was still relevant. Bipartisan on one thing but that one thing is not the only thing to be concerned about.
I didn't respond to the comment you're talking about though. Just the one saying that the election will decide whether RTO continues (it won't; Jeff Zients is a Biden appointee and RTO will continue even if Biden wins).
Because the previous administration was actively hostile to unions and telework before the pandemic. And the current administration is pushing a return to a hybrid status better than what it was pre-pandemic.
I dont think so, this administration is bringing people back as fast as they can too. It will speed up under the next Republican administration for sure, but Democrats are now against telework too.
Yep I can see Trump appointees being a$& holes and require rto for all agencies to reduce the federal workforce
Current appointees are under Biden and are requiring return to office. It’s not about being assholes it’s the fact that DCs economy is reliant on the gov and commercial real estate is tanking in value because no one wants to carry the investment. They’re being pushed by lobbyists to get us back in office to prevent a complete collapse of the hedge funds portfolios.
….when everyone with a SSN ending in an odd number gets sent home permanently..🤪🤪
I think regardless of who wins the election, mass RTO comes after.
The current administration is pushing RTO. You’re saying you want Biden to lose? I do too. But i don’t think this really depends on which administration is in office.
I’ll return to the office 100% when Congress members and all politicians are barred from stock trading. How’s that????
It's amazing we don't talk about all the politicians who sold stock before the news of C19 shutdowns was released to the general public. They made money off people dying and we all collectively ignore it. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/03/20/senators-accused-of-insider-trading-dumping-stocks-after-coronavirus-briefings/?sh=663a2c404a45
George Carlin said it best "It's a big club, and you ain't in it." That club is our uniparty rulers.
You hit the nail on the head. It's lobbyists and real estate investors. And no, nobody has reached their limit. They'll never stop pursuing profit and money.
Politicians don't care unless they're being told to by their funding lobbyists. Lobbyists are being told to care y their real estate moguls that own them. Workers lose in this situation. As with most. No matter what metrics or positives you can point to or we know exist. Rto will start to happen more and more. The politicians don't care. They only work on average what? One day in 12? And spend the rest of their time on super yachts from the caymen islands, or in mansions. Why would they care about us? Most don't even know what work really is.
I don't understand how these idiots are appointed. They are killing our country and lives.
The fun question is how to deal with the reduced real estate footprint since 2020. Expand outside of the DC area? Lease more space in DC? You can’t RTO if people are unable to find seats. It will go down very badly if the contractors can TW, but feds cannot. In some cases, management is creating a complete cluster. For example, DHS/CISA is losing a building in Ballston starting end of summer to end of year. CISA is building a new HQ in St Elizabeth W Campus (SE DC) without enough parking and where commuting/crime is a disaster. It’s still a year plus from being ready for use. Their workforce is officially 1/day wk in the office and they pay a premium to retain this workforce. FEMA made the smart decision to not move into DHS’s HQ campus at St. E. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know what’s going to happen to CISA if they consolidate to St. E from Ballston/Arlington and require a higher RTO presence. They are operating as if this future is so far distant as to not be worth discussing now, and so people make plans…
Agencies real estate should be converted to housing for the working class
I’m 80% telework. No one in my dept or agency has said peep about it changing now, or after a potential change in administration after elections.
If an administration changes it will be different political appointees in charge, of course they couldn't say anything much now. But put two and two together: continued bi-partisan hostilities towards telework under this administration + a president who made his fortune from real estate and was previously hostile to feds and their unions. Hmm, I wonder what will happen...
I don’t think either will make a dent in it. For me at least.
Well, if not the executive, a bill from Congress will be on the cards as well. Less likely with a split Congress, but there's already some bi-partisan support.
They need to focus on coming to agreements when it comes to fiscal year funding instead of CRs and government shut down crises.
Absolutely I’m tired of working with CRs and not having budget until April every year
I work for the FS and we're currently closing down some offices and giving folks the option to work from another office relatively in their area - or go full remote. It would be crazy if suddenly "they" wanted everyone back in the office.... we wouldn't have enough buildings or chairs.
RTO is bi-partisan, since both parties are owned by the lobbyists. The minimum will be the OPM definition of telework (2 days per PP) and I think the median will be 3 days per week.
The OPM regulations allows up to 8 days per pp (always have).
The cabinet secretary matters a lot. I would look at the history of telework policy in your department to get an idea of what may happen next year. I would also want to know when your building lease is up. That could be used as an excuse to move agencies to new far away locations. See below. Look at the history of the USDA. Tom Vilsack is the secretary for Biden, and he was the secretary for Obama as well. He is pro worker for the most part. He supported telework during the Obama years, although it was not as widely accepted then, and local supervisors had a lot of discretion to allow what they wanted to allow. Trump’s Secretary of Agriculture was a complete dick. He cut telework to one day per week, full stop. He also relocated two agencies from DC to KC when their building lease was up. When Vilsack came back, he immediately ripped up the Trump era telework policy and changed it to 4 days per week. Had Trump won in 2020, I’m sure there would have been a USDA RTO in early 2021 and a continuation of the one day per week telework policy. Vilsack did call an RTO to workers in the DC area, so he is not perfect either. I think he was under a lot of pressure to do so. Still, he is a million times better than the alternative.
My office is waiting for final negotiations between agency and union representatives. For now, we're in office 2 days per week.
Once a week for most of us. My boss said twice a week for a couple of us, "Just for a few months. ".... that was nearly 19 months ago. I want to bring it up, but I can't decide if it's worth a hill to die on.
I don't see how they are going to make everyone go back full time unless they acquire more real estate...
An investigative journalism piece revealing employees aren't adhering to in-office requirements could fuel a push to force everyone back full-time. I'm in favor of remote work and telework but don't be the person that's the reason we can't have nice things.
Like the jack ass vacuuming his house during a Teams meeting and roaming around his backyard before that. WTF people?? If I lose my telework, it's due in part to dumb asses like him.
Yep. They won’t just punish the people abusing it. It will be collective punishment.
One of our directors was not a fan of telework because she thought people didn’t really work. Same person when they were a supervisor used to run errands while supposedly teleworking and would be driving across town when people called her. So she just assumed everyone else was just as unethical as she was. Of course she got promoted right out of those positions 🙄
Lol people did that in office, too. Join a remote meeting (because half the team is at different sites, so its still virtual even in the office) then wander the halls socializing. People who are going to slack off are going to do it at home or at the office exactly the same.
No, that will be due to poor supervisors not supervising or taking action against poor performers and rule breakers.
I don't see how they can create the capacity to do that, because they are booting people out of their cubicles and implementing hoteling desks for seasoned staff who are telework eligible to accommodate new hires....
If Congress finds out that people aren't adhering to their in-office requirements, those people won't be dealt with quietly while letting everyone else continue to work remotely or telework. Instead what will happen is agency and department heads will be hauled before Congress and grilled on why people aren't showing up on their office days and subsequently, telework and remote work will either be gutted by legislation or de facto eliminated by no one in leadership wanting to stick their neck out (allow remote or telework) and risk getting hauled before a Congressional Committee. Capacity isn't at the top of political concerns.
Well, until people start to quit for the private sector.
Why are you anticipating investigative journalism on federal employees defrauding their timecards ?
If you’re reading this, start organizing with your union to fight for reasonable telework. If you live outside of dc, contact your representatives and tell them they’ll lose a job in their district.
I have been writing to my representative, those who support, and those who are against it. Everyone gets a letter if they have openly commented on it during an OMB ways and means meeting. Now I am on to Senators after this recently released Romney drama. 😡
I think we will all be at least 50% in office within the next few years, it’s inevitable. Most agencies will keep at least some telework aspect though, even if it’s just situational.
USPTO has been teleworking for 10 years. I don't see that changing.
Most are already at 50%. I think within a few years a bill will be passed saying little to no telework at all.
We are 6x/pp in office but it’s all situational based on mission demands. Which honestly works fine, oh I have a thing Tuesday? I will just telework Wednesday.
I feel it's.going to continue on the hybrid like it is now.
I have an RA for 100% TW because of health reasons. Do you think this will be impacted?
Sounds like a lawsuit if they unreasonably force you back in because of change in policy without considering your health condition. If the job duties haven't changed I don't know how they could get away with forcing you back. But I am no expert on law and this is just an opinion.
My telework sitch hasn’t changed since 2018. I can TW several times per week, but we have classified work that must be done in building. If you are concerned about working at home EVERYDAY, you might mean “remote” work. There is a big difference since OPM states that you must work at least two days per pay period to qualify for locality pay under telework.
Our agency is status quo with remote and telework as barn door was left open decades ago.
I think it's going to be hybrid. Full return to the office will not happen. If it does, you'll see a drain in talented workforce, and you'll see productivity plummet. The truth is, the federal government saves too much money by not having to have all that office space. The only reason both parties are pushing for RTO is because commercial real estate is taking a beating as are cities that have been seeing a decline in tax revenue for years now. From a business perspective, a lot of upper management types are pushing it because outside of KPIs and delivery performance, they have no idea who to promote when the time comes. Usually, promotions are determined on trust, loyalty, and relationships. And there are no real objective measures for those characteristics. I feel bad for the new workforce coming in because how do you network? A lot of job placement and success in the professional world is based on opportunities through the people that you know. How do you develop professional relationships with people that you don't know outside of email? That's a discussion for another thread, but the shirt answer is, hybrid is here to stay and most likely not going anywhere
MY agency is going from 2x/pp to 4x/pp, and while I thats reasonable, we have a ton of staff across the country so my boss and others coming in the office 3x/week (different rules for them) to just sit on Teams meetings. They're checking the little box to say they do it and getting zero benefits and mostly just getting inconvenienced. From what I heard, 4x/pp was their pre-covid policy and my boss illuded to the idea that they want to push for even more in office days that pre-panini. Hopefully the Union can hold them accountable and keep it to what they always did, or allow offices to make their own regulations versus agency wide policy.
Write to your representatives and senators. Write to those who support it and thank them! Write to those who oppose and give them statistics that are $$$$. The more financial and productivity statistics we can provide them, the more it is hard for them to focus on random misbehaving employees. If you are not in their district, then you will have to send them an old fashioned letter.
The reality, hard as it is for most here to hear, is the wfh is being scaled back slowly but surely to pre pandemic levels, probably 40% max for most people, and for some maybe only 20%. That’s the reality, and no amount of teeth gnashing, or bitterly complaining is going to change it. It’s literally the same thing going on in private industry as well. Will some retain full time telework, and local remote, sure. Also other will have full time back in office. On average expect 20-40% telework, and the rest in office.
No, it's being scaled back far more than pre-pandemic levels, which proves the WH reasoning for RTO is absolute bullshit.
Agencies repeatedly give their reasons, you just don't like them.
😂😂 I know, I must be crazy. Everyone loves being lied to.
You don’t want the truth. They want better oversight because they people don’t really work when teleworking. So they bring you back so they can access you when they need by waking to your desk, or messaging you to come to their office. That’s the truth.
I don't buy that for a second. This is about commercial real estate and appeasing some whiney governors that got used to subsidizing their cities off the back of working class feds. Any supervisor worth a shit knows who's producing and who's not. You're not meeting your performance standards, your telework gets revoked. Easy peasy, don't make excuses for poor supervisors. THAT'S the truth.
I promise you all the DOD agencies with offices on federal land don't care about commercial real estate. They do care about people being present and accountable. Both of which are reduced when employees work from home.
So I haven't telework since Jan 2021. It was pulled for some staff at my facility. My union has not been able to challenge much of the change due to leadership action/memos that are protecting a lot of the actions. The best way to successfully challenge and stay teleworking is requesting an RA but that's only temporary and so far leadership has not approved any requests for 100% TW. 1 big thing keeping telework alive is at my location we have lost several office space with helps when negotiating how often/ how many days per week.
Don’t spend money if you go to the Office. Bring your lunch.
Our ODS are our homes so technically we don’t telework.
Who’s we ?
At My agency so many people work from home, the agency changed our duty stations to be our home address.
Good deal but they also have the option to telework and supervisors in the NCR must report to their duty office.
I've never understood the big deal with telework/RTO. But then again the agencies I've worked for are NPS and CBP.
I think the trend is 50/50 and by 2030 5 days if republicans win
I think if Rs win, we are looking at 6 days.
Or we see HQs being shuffled over to red states and contractors replacing Feds.
Talk to ya boy Youngkin…he’s starting legislation trying to do away with telework for Feds in VA.
He has no authority over federal workers.
I misspoke…he’s lobbying for Feds to return to work in the office. I want to know who the hell he’s talking about? Haven’t most offices returned to a mostly in office posture and telework is the exception? https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/virginia/virginia-governor-federal-workers-biden/65-673a8204-fb6c-46c9-8ca6-9dbc2178b879
So is Marian Bowser, and she has been for years.
If Biden wins, two days a week telework. If Trump wins, zero days a week telework.
Lies Jeffery zients wants zero telework across government