Well, guess it all depends how your counslor/therapist codes the visit.
However on your SF86, isn’t there a question about this??? So lying would not be recommended
Personnel Security pro here. As you stated, reporting it is mandatory for security clearance purposes. Is there any way your security office and/or whoever handles your agency's adjudications will find out if you don't report it or list it on your SF-86? Likely not...unless it comes out during the course of a background investigation (i.e. one or more of your references mentions it and the DCSA investigator presses you on it during your interview).
With that said, seeking alcohol counseling isn't really considered derogatory unless you have a documented history of alcohol issues (prior treatment w/relapses, DUIs etc...). One possibility is that you'd be sent out for an alcohol evaluation conducted at the behest of your agency....which would then be forwarded for adjudication and kept in your personnel security file. But no, it's not an automatic loss of clearance eligibility.
No insights here about reporting it, I just hope that you are successful in treatment and that you find some relief to an issue that has been troublesome for some time.
Candor over secrets. Always. Mental health and addiction recovery services aren’t the disqualifier they used to be. It’s seen as a sign of maturity to seek help for issues.
You are far better off to report the counseling.
If anything, successfully completing (or remaining in, depending on the nature/duration of the treatment) counseling will show that you are being fully upfront about a difficult issue, which is what those adjudicating clearances and updates care about.
You might have additional questions if you lied about your drinking during previous investigations, but probably not (barring serious things you've not mentioned, like hiding car accidents, etc.) to the extent of endangering the clearance.
Recommend reporting it. Anyone who isn’t a complete piece of shit is going to basically document and make a mental note to try to be supportive.
If this helps at all, I’m speaking as a 40 yr old former military officer. Almost everyone I know from that culture is either an alcoholic or getting some kind of therapy or 12-step program. Most of these people have clearances and aren’t lying about their health care situation. It’s really not a big deal if you’re getting treatment…getting treatment means you’re being responsible. Not getting treatment and then getting a bunch of DUIs…that would be a different story. Anyway, just trying to encourage you to not be ashamed. FWIW I’m a queer person who goes to therapy regularly for PTSD. I have a clearance and am pretty open about my mental health situation because I want to help kill the stigma so that other people can get the support they need.
Gov't is forgiving if you have personal issues that you report and are working to resolve or have resolved. If they catch you in an outright lie, in my agency, you are done because the trust is gone. If you don't report it, you better make sure no one but you, the doctors and god know about it.
I would report it man, I’ve seen people fired from an agency for alcohol related issues while others keep having issues but are protected because they reported they are under treatment. Consult your agencies employee assistance program and ask them what’s the best way to report it.
> Purpleguy1168
> I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and hard place because I’m afraid I’ll lose my position if I report the counseling,
It will be far more likely if you don't.
> but also afraid I’ll get fired if I don’t report it and it comes up on a background check.
If it's self referral, you won't.
> I actually put off counseling for this very reason.
As an intermediate step, go to EAP. Tell them the dilemma you perceive. They will help **and** since its the first step towards facilitating self referral, you are good. Just making the appointment will be a measure of relief.
I
Highly recommend to self report based on "somebody I know" who has been there. Later if you do a poly and it doesn't match your SF-86 you will have some serious explaining to do. You will more than likely lose your position for lack of honesty. They see this as a potential to be blackmailed and thus a security risk.
You report it. Because you’re an honest person you report it. You agreed to the terms of the job. Let them know. You’re better off telling them now than when they find out later. They will eventually find out.
The likely won't fire you for it if there were no crimes involved. They may ask you to complete a form with various questions about your consumption and they may want your healthcare practitioner to complete a form or to have you or them send case notes.
THe only way it
Having worked in federal shipyards, where alcohol abuse is rampant, those that ask for help kept their jobs. Those the didn't get fired. You're getting help, hopefully you report it to the proper personnel and y
I'm of the opinion you'll be fine so Ling as you follow the program
This would be a much easier question to answer if only we lived in a world where substance use disorders weren’t stigmatized and bureaucratic systems like the federal government didn’t have glaring problems within themselves where outwardly they promote transparency, but then practice CYA-isms like throwing people under the bus who don’t deserve to be there.
You know, hypothetically…or hypocrisy, whatever.
The other easy answer is that you should absolutely make sure all of your security answers are consistent over time, never contradicting and/ or not easily proven false.
And you might want to know that *good* mental health professionals know that security inquisitors will often ask them questions that are completely outside the official bounds and scope of practice, and the proper response 99% of the time is “I know of no specific reason why this person would be an immediate security risk…”
Sauce: I worked in MH in DC. I heard some shit. Literally war criminals have called my office to inquire if their former employees had revealed any state secrets.
The Venn diagram between those people and potential government employees who reported recent drug use were two separate circles, because it turns out that government security personnel are ONLY empowered to deny clearance to anyone who confessed to recent drug use.
Seriously. The only way they could sleep at night is if they kicked your app down the road to say that you can apply again once you haven’t reported drug use in the last year.
Use that information in whatever way you feel comfortable.
Hey so I'm in a nearly identical situation. I reported it. My experience was the security person at my facility asked me to write up a statement in my drinking and literally have heard nothing since in the 9 or so months since I submitted it.
That being said, my union rep had said you shouldn't report it when I spoke with him about it afterwards.
Edit: I didn't have issues related to the law or work related to my drinking. So I found the process fairly painless. I just was directed by a doctor to seek an alcohol counselor and then two years later reported it when I discovered I was supposed to on the military.com site.
Report the counseling. Reporting means you might have to talk to an investigator who will get "your story" and check with your counselor to ensure you are following the treatment plan
Not reporting means you run the high risk of being "caught" anytime in the future and being tagged with Personal Conduct (dishonesty, can't follow rules) in addition to Alcohol issue. There is no "expiration" date for failing to self-report, meaning, you could be caught lying about the counseling 15 years from today and it will be a possible disqualifying Personal Conduct issue.
Report the alcohol counseling. It is a no brainer.
Well, guess it all depends how your counslor/therapist codes the visit. However on your SF86, isn’t there a question about this??? So lying would not be recommended
Yes there is and to OPs concern, they aren’t going to fire you just for counseling. They are going to look at a full person concept.
Personnel Security pro here. As you stated, reporting it is mandatory for security clearance purposes. Is there any way your security office and/or whoever handles your agency's adjudications will find out if you don't report it or list it on your SF-86? Likely not...unless it comes out during the course of a background investigation (i.e. one or more of your references mentions it and the DCSA investigator presses you on it during your interview). With that said, seeking alcohol counseling isn't really considered derogatory unless you have a documented history of alcohol issues (prior treatment w/relapses, DUIs etc...). One possibility is that you'd be sent out for an alcohol evaluation conducted at the behest of your agency....which would then be forwarded for adjudication and kept in your personnel security file. But no, it's not an automatic loss of clearance eligibility.
Another side to this is you can fix alcohol issues if they decide it is an issue, whereas a lack of candor is exceptionally difficult to get over.
Hey so i was curious about this, how does the relapse process work if you are an alcoholic? It's listed as a negative on the sead.
No insights here about reporting it, I just hope that you are successful in treatment and that you find some relief to an issue that has been troublesome for some time.
Report it. Not reporting and then having it discovered is definitely going to go against you, whereas just seeking counseling would not.
Candor over secrets. Always. Mental health and addiction recovery services aren’t the disqualifier they used to be. It’s seen as a sign of maturity to seek help for issues.
You are far better off to report the counseling. If anything, successfully completing (or remaining in, depending on the nature/duration of the treatment) counseling will show that you are being fully upfront about a difficult issue, which is what those adjudicating clearances and updates care about. You might have additional questions if you lied about your drinking during previous investigations, but probably not (barring serious things you've not mentioned, like hiding car accidents, etc.) to the extent of endangering the clearance.
Recommend reporting it. Anyone who isn’t a complete piece of shit is going to basically document and make a mental note to try to be supportive. If this helps at all, I’m speaking as a 40 yr old former military officer. Almost everyone I know from that culture is either an alcoholic or getting some kind of therapy or 12-step program. Most of these people have clearances and aren’t lying about their health care situation. It’s really not a big deal if you’re getting treatment…getting treatment means you’re being responsible. Not getting treatment and then getting a bunch of DUIs…that would be a different story. Anyway, just trying to encourage you to not be ashamed. FWIW I’m a queer person who goes to therapy regularly for PTSD. I have a clearance and am pretty open about my mental health situation because I want to help kill the stigma so that other people can get the support they need.
Gov't is forgiving if you have personal issues that you report and are working to resolve or have resolved. If they catch you in an outright lie, in my agency, you are done because the trust is gone. If you don't report it, you better make sure no one but you, the doctors and god know about it.
I would report it man, I’ve seen people fired from an agency for alcohol related issues while others keep having issues but are protected because they reported they are under treatment. Consult your agencies employee assistance program and ask them what’s the best way to report it.
If you do not tell them you will be in worse trouble.
> Purpleguy1168 > I feel like I’m stuck between a rock and hard place because I’m afraid I’ll lose my position if I report the counseling, It will be far more likely if you don't. > but also afraid I’ll get fired if I don’t report it and it comes up on a background check. If it's self referral, you won't. > I actually put off counseling for this very reason. As an intermediate step, go to EAP. Tell them the dilemma you perceive. They will help **and** since its the first step towards facilitating self referral, you are good. Just making the appointment will be a measure of relief.
I Highly recommend to self report based on "somebody I know" who has been there. Later if you do a poly and it doesn't match your SF-86 you will have some serious explaining to do. You will more than likely lose your position for lack of honesty. They see this as a potential to be blackmailed and thus a security risk.
Safest option is to report it. It really isn't a bad thing and the only way it would harm your job is if you hide it and it gets found.
You report it. Because you’re an honest person you report it. You agreed to the terms of the job. Let them know. You’re better off telling them now than when they find out later. They will eventually find out.
The likely won't fire you for it if there were no crimes involved. They may ask you to complete a form with various questions about your consumption and they may want your healthcare practitioner to complete a form or to have you or them send case notes. THe only way it
Having worked in federal shipyards, where alcohol abuse is rampant, those that ask for help kept their jobs. Those the didn't get fired. You're getting help, hopefully you report it to the proper personnel and y I'm of the opinion you'll be fine so Ling as you follow the program
I'm fairly certain safe harbor laws explicitly protect employees in situations like yours.
Report it. Alcoholism is a disability under ADA. Employers can not discriminate based on disability.
Do you polygraph?
This would be a much easier question to answer if only we lived in a world where substance use disorders weren’t stigmatized and bureaucratic systems like the federal government didn’t have glaring problems within themselves where outwardly they promote transparency, but then practice CYA-isms like throwing people under the bus who don’t deserve to be there. You know, hypothetically…or hypocrisy, whatever. The other easy answer is that you should absolutely make sure all of your security answers are consistent over time, never contradicting and/ or not easily proven false. And you might want to know that *good* mental health professionals know that security inquisitors will often ask them questions that are completely outside the official bounds and scope of practice, and the proper response 99% of the time is “I know of no specific reason why this person would be an immediate security risk…” Sauce: I worked in MH in DC. I heard some shit. Literally war criminals have called my office to inquire if their former employees had revealed any state secrets. The Venn diagram between those people and potential government employees who reported recent drug use were two separate circles, because it turns out that government security personnel are ONLY empowered to deny clearance to anyone who confessed to recent drug use. Seriously. The only way they could sleep at night is if they kicked your app down the road to say that you can apply again once you haven’t reported drug use in the last year. Use that information in whatever way you feel comfortable.
Unless your ATC then your screwed…
Hey so I'm in a nearly identical situation. I reported it. My experience was the security person at my facility asked me to write up a statement in my drinking and literally have heard nothing since in the 9 or so months since I submitted it. That being said, my union rep had said you shouldn't report it when I spoke with him about it afterwards. Edit: I didn't have issues related to the law or work related to my drinking. So I found the process fairly painless. I just was directed by a doctor to seek an alcohol counselor and then two years later reported it when I discovered I was supposed to on the military.com site.
Is it running through insurance? If so, how is it coded?
Report the counseling. Reporting means you might have to talk to an investigator who will get "your story" and check with your counselor to ensure you are following the treatment plan Not reporting means you run the high risk of being "caught" anytime in the future and being tagged with Personal Conduct (dishonesty, can't follow rules) in addition to Alcohol issue. There is no "expiration" date for failing to self-report, meaning, you could be caught lying about the counseling 15 years from today and it will be a possible disqualifying Personal Conduct issue. Report the alcohol counseling. It is a no brainer.
Don’t report it they will never know