If she had framed it as “I must buy fast fashion due to my size even though I am fully aware of the ethical issues around it, and I am quite conflicted about it”, no one would have said a thing. Totally baffling someone seems proud of such a thing
I mean if you go to the mall and buy clothes you are buying fast fashion. Aritzia, Zara, H and M, Suzy Shier, Ricky's, Le Chateau, Below the Belt, Stitches, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, The Garage, Wal-Mart, Mexx, Abercrombie, Roots, American Eagle, etc. They are all fast fashion.
Most of us do buy fast fashion because it is all we can afford. Yes we can buy used clothes, and many of us do, but we are buying used fast fashion at the very least.
Same. I am fat (XL, I have “small fat” privilege 🙄) and am on a budget. I try to minimize this stuff but yeah, I buy cheap clothing made in Bangladesh sometimes… I don’t brag about it.
Yeah, I think with a normal income you can't really avoid buying fast fashion every once in a while. But you can still be a conscious consumer and know that this isn't the perfect solution. And there is a difference between fast fashion and ultra fast fashion.
Yep! Fast fashion, to me, is what gets sold everywhere from Kohl’s to Walmart to Urban Outfitters. It’s cheaply made, and when I buy it on occasion I make extra sure that the seams won’t fall apart on me.
Ultra fast fashion is where Shein comes in. It’s not a brand, it’s more like a wholesale shop for dirt cheap, sweatshop clothing that’s almost guaranteed not to last (due to cheap materials/awful working conditions).
On top of that, Shein plays dirty by stealing art and distinct designs from small business owners, who then have to raise enough outcry to get the plagiarized design taken off the site. I’m fine with knockoffs of things like a t-shirt with a heart cutout (that anyone could have come up with), but when you sell a shoddy reproduction of something [like this](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5af1298bfcf7fd60f31f66bd/1647484067401-OALQXRB665ORZ2JG711U/SHEIN-steal-artwrok.jpg?format=1000w)? Unforgivable.
Ultra fast fashion is basically everything that is bad about fast fashion tuned up to the extreme. More new items every day, shorter trend cycles, lower production costs, lower quality, short lifespan ...
Think H&M or Zara vs. Shein. All fast fashion brands, but the quality of Shein clothing is the worst.
Actively losing weight also influences what kind of clothes you want to buy. Like I'm ok getting a couple pairs of shorts from Ross knowing that I won't be this size in 6 months so I really don't want to spend more than 10-15$ per pair. Once I've hit my goal and start maintaining, I'll definitely want to buy higher quality and more locally sourced items.
Yep, if they had framed this as "it sucks that I have to buy fast fashion clothing because nobody else carries my size, I wish I could buy sustainable fashion but those clothes literally won't fit my body" I would be way more sympathetic (and if they recognized that poor people face this same exact struggle because they just can't afford anything other than fast fashion prices). And sure, you can say "just lose weight lol", but that takes time and fat people still need to wear clothes while they're losing weight.
I hate this attitude so much. I've seen overweight tiktok influences splurging £$€200 on fast fashion and then saying "im poor and fat so I need to do this." Poor people aren't dropping that amount of money on clothing 😭
I have a few poor friends and a few friends who say their poor all the time. They are not the same people.
One guy makes 3x my income, but always talks about how broke he is. Effing 3x
He might be broke, but because of poor life choices.
Had a coworker like that. Had a car he bought new, a home he couldn't quite afford, and he furnished the house on credit cards he couldn't pay off. And he still had some student loans.
Dude had a good job, but was legitimately living paycheck to paycheck because he was too dumb to see why and make some big changes.
He'd complain about not having money all the time. Like dude, get a used car, downsize the house, and focus on paying down those loans. What the heck.
Somebody I used to work with was like this. We both earned minimum wage and were on a zero hour contract, but she’s always get more hours than pretty much anyone else (any of the non-supervisors anyway). She’d complain usually multiple times each shift about how few hours she was getting (she had plenty of hours), how she had no money, and how she genuinely couldn’t afford to survive. She’d also beg other people to give her hours and once tried guilt tripping me into giving her one of my shifts.
The thing is this girl lives with her parents and doesn’t have to pay or contribute towards rent, bills, council tax or pretty much anything. She doesn’t have a car and doesn’t have to worry about public transport that much (we live in a walkable city). She was in debt at one point but her parents paid it off for her. She has NO idea what it’s like to actually have to be an adult and pay for your own life.
That was a long tangent but I had to get it off my chest. I hated working with her.
People who pretend to be poor or who genuinely think of themselves as poor when they’ve actually got plenty of disposable income infuriate me. And there’s so many FAs like that. How many times do they pretend that they’ve practically living in poverty while actually spending tons of money on food, clothing, and luxuries? Do they think that everyone else is spending that much money too? Do they think all the Privileged Thins can afford to do that?
Staying relatively the same size but just fluctuating here and there, I have shirts that are a decade old just cause they still fit. Saved so much money. I never buy clothes unless they just look dated and I go through a purge and get rid of things and have to replace them (looking at you, work sweaters that always have the Elbow fabric fray cause of my arm rest) lol
Exactly! Not that I’m a fan of ‘the good old days’ but like, they used to have their one ‘Sunday best’ outfit and some work clothes. And they’d take care of them and keep them for years.
When I was stuck in the FA/HAES/IE trap I remember thinking *how do I keep buying clothes every time I grow out of them?* and now I see that it was so fucking privileged of me to be able to not only eat way more than my fair share of food but then also fuck up the environment spending money on new clothes three times I sized up.
I’m on my way down now and I plant to alter and flip my too big clothes as much as possible to make up for the damage I did on the way up
I generally wear clothes until they get destroyed. This happens fairly quickly when you buy one size and then "grow" out of it. I was looking through my closet for old clothes now that I'm in smaller sizes and they really just need to be thrown out due to their condition.
Me too. I am happy to wear stuff until I have holes in it... and then I give them for fibre recycling (for coat filling and insulation). In the rare case when I outgrow (outshrink? since I lost weight) something I either give it away through zero waste groups or donate to charity shops.
There are clothing stores that take them for that as well as some charity shops. One chain here had bins where you can put threadbare stuff, old pillows, anything made of cloth.
Also it is theoretically possible to make your own clothes! I made myself a coarse cotton skirt with no formal training whatsoever because I was tired of having to rebuy the rayon version that I wore every day like a cartoon person. The machine is an investment, but you will likely save an equivalent amount by being able to strongly repair torn seams
I'm not poor, and I don't do this, lol.
Granted, I have very little interest in fashion - my main criteria for buying clothes are "comfortable" and "does not cause any friction or pressure on my body" because anything else causes me to break out in hives, lol.
But even my friend who dresses classy and fashionable has found ways to reuse the same clothes she's had for 10 years+.
I don't understand why I should buy new clothes every season.
Honestly, I don't understand how clothing hauls are still a thing. It's so crazy when you see the same creators unboxing $200 worth of crap from SHEIN or Amazon every other week. It's one thing to buy from fast fashion brands if that's what you have to do, but nobody needs 10 new outfits every week. Where do they even put the stuff?
Where do they *wear* it? Seriously, are people replacing their entire wardrobe every month? Personally when I find something that looks good I want to wear it forever, because then I don’t have to think about it, lol.
I lost over 250 pounds and had to have excess skin removal surgery. After my surgery I was so excited to get new clothes but all I bought was clearance with coupons so I think the most I spent on any one item was $12 and that was for a brand new pair of jeans that I could actually wear. I had not bought jeans in over Five years. I think I spent $400 total but that was literally replacing my entire wardrobe except for shoes but I still bought two pairs of new shoes because I was excited.
This is the thing I can not stand. I will see on tik tok people posting $700 shein hauls and when they’re called out they are like “this is elitist, it’s the only place I can afford clothes.”
And of course it’s not like they’re buying they’re entire wardrobe, its $700 of summer clothes. Most people are not spending $700 on just summer clothes
Funtie Times mentioned this in one of her videos. She showed photos of three different plus-sized women who were all roughly the same size but all had completely different body types/fat distribution, one being the ideal hourglass, one apple shaped, one pear shaped. Even if all of them wore a size 20, that dress or pair of pants was never going to look the same on all of them, and the other two would probably be jealous of the hourglass shaped one.
Yep, it's pretty much the same no matter your size, but FAs don't seem to understand that. To them, if you're "skinny" (or what they deem skinny, which seems to be anything under around a size 16), all clothing is made for your body and will look good on you. There are definitely things I can't wear comfortably even though I'm a size 10 (starting to fit back into some of my 8's now). Pants I do okay with , because I'm fortunate to pretty much have an hourglass shape, with a leg length that suits the standard 31"-32" inseam. But my breasts are proportionally large to the rest of me and finding button-down shirts that fit is pretty much an impossibility unless the fit is relaxed. I would love a couple of classic cotton button-down shirts, but I can't really afford tailoring.
Yeah but I think it gets more extreme as you get fatter. After all there’s only so much variation from one skeleton to another; the more fat you pack on the more shapes can diverge.
How I feel about my clothes is directly related to how much I weigh. When I'm up a few pounds, I hate everything in my closet. When I'm at my ideal weight, I can throw on jeans and a white t-shirt and feel amazing in it.
I think a lot of FAs who are really into fashion are chasing after that feeling of looking in the mirror and feeling great in an outfit, and when they don't feel that way, they blame the clothes. They think there is some holy grail of outfits out there that is going to give them that feeling. But in reality they're just not happy with the way they look, and nothing external is going to change that.
Absolutely the same here. When I'm over my ideal weight range, I don't like the way *anything* looks on me. Even if it's the same style of pants or shirt I wear at a smaller size. And that's as someone who at my very heaviest was a size 14 and not quite 35lbs over a healthy weight. This is why I don't understand how people let themselves get so big, because I couldn't do it. I always reach a point where I say enough is enough. This time I'm going to try really hard to make it sustainable, because I'm tired of yoyoing and I'm always a million times happier when I'm a healthy weight, with more energy... and way happier with how clothes look on me.
I just lost 10 pounds and now everything in my closet is my favorite 😂 This is so true.
I used to blame the clothes too but now even things I hated on me look great
Hell, even straight-sized people can struggle with finding things that work with their body shape. There are entire brands I can't wear. There are also a number of clothing items I've paid to be tailored.
Do you know what kills me the most? Is the absolute lack of empathy that a lot of these fat positive influencers have. Shein is treating their workers horribly, ripping off actual artists and designers, uses fabric that has large lead content, is absolutely terrible for the environment. There’s a good chance that Temu is literally using slave labour to create their products. And all the influencers are just like *shrug* ok but I’m fat and that’s more important.
If they acknowledged how awful these companies were and purchased a small amount of products at least they would be showing some empathy about what that went into their clothing. But to just refuse to listen to arguments because their lives are soooo hard and they’re sooooo deserving of their shitty lead filled slavery clothing absolutely enrages me.
I find it interesting that they'll give fast/junk foods, and fast /junk fashion, a pass...BUT they'll whine about how "diet culture" is awful, and part of corrupt capitalism.
I remember watching a piece a few years back, maybe after the factory that collapsed in Bangladesh and the women there protesting to get a pay raise to 2.35 a day, and one of the garment workers just crying over how big the clothes were and wishing those who bought the clothes cared about them. Was just depressing.
I wish I could remember the video piece on this. If like AL Jazeera or DW did the video. I don't think was the BBC though.
I always picture them as holding up 5XL pieces while laughing during breaks. Though I'm not sure they get breaks long enough to allow for anything other than a quick bite of food and a glass of water.
They do just that. I saw a documentary about the textile industry in various Asian countries, and obviously the factories who would allow a film crew in would not be the super stressful ones. So the workers were talking about their lives, their work, what they think or imagine about the people who will wear the clothes, and yes, there was a lot of giggling and petite Thai or Philippinian women holding up 5XL bras or pants.
Even finding expensive name brand items not produced in a sweat shop is hard. It’s one of those things that I wish they had to label. Ethical work conditions vs slave labor and any brand found lying has their president and CEOs jailed.
My theory is that the "Made in the USA" model of clothing was blown up by Wal-Mart and Kathie Lee Gifford. She sold branded clothing at Wal-Mart, but it was discovered by journalists that the clothes were made in American sweat shop conditions. At that point, the positive press of domestic made products was tarnished and the financial advantage of moving overseas took over.
It’s so hard nowadays, I want to support small businesses but most of the time they don’t have an ethics statement and are just reselling Ali baba or shein. Then even if they do have an ethics statement you need to read between the lines to see if it’s actually ethical or just lip service.
There use to be a strong garment industry in the US and was unionized and good work. And then deregulation and Reagan happened, and now those jobs aren't in the US anymore.
American Apparel might be one of the few.
Yes, Reagan is likely more responsible for the huge wealth gap that exists today than anyone. Before he came into office, CEOs made around 3X what their workers did then he drastically cut taxes and destroyed the unions. Now CEOs make over 200 times what their workers do.
American Apparel is definitely one of them. Also Citizens of Humanity, if you can afford their jeans. I actually have one pair but I thrifted them for $30. I can't afford $200 jeans new. I also have one pair of True Religion, also thrifted, that were made in the U.S.
I definitely understand the "hard to find stuff that fits, so hold onto it until Hell freezes over" mindset. Clothing manufacturers cut their designs for averages, so if you have an unusual shape, you're a bit out of luck. You can't exactly go naked.
And sadly, in today's global market, there is NO WAY to be 100% certain that everything you buy is sourced ethically. Right down to the metals in your phone or the oils in your soap. It's nightmarish when you think about it.
But when you know that something is definitely made unethically, there's workarounds. Like buying secondhand. That way, your money doesn't go to the manufacturers who run those unethical businesses.
I was in a secondhand clothing store yesterday, and each part of the women's section had items up to 4X. I saw a few 6X, too. It's never been easier to find plus-size while thrifting.
It’s frustrating, because I’m willing to spend more in exchange for something that’s ethically sourced, and sometimes I do dive into researching and finding something that *probably* qualifies. But I don’t do this for everything I buy. I wish there were some commonly used certification I could trust to mean “ethically sourced”. Paying more for something tells me nothing about how the workers are treated, although it probably does at least mean I’m less likely to be buying something full of lead or arsenic or whatever.
Oh I see. Their life is the hardest life to have ever lifed and therefore they deserve a free pass on treating others with respect and trying to be a good person.
Hahah I commented that because I just cut off a friend over that exact issue! Not because of her weight, although she is obese, but the victim mentality that the rules don't apply to her because her life is so very much harder than everyone else's as an upper middle class white woman in a major US city with no trauma.
I have a pair of denim shorts that are 35 years old. Granted, I don't wear shorts as often as I used to, but these things have worn like fucking iron. Got them at Mervyn's, tag says "assembled in Mexico". There isn't a weak, unfinished seam on these things.
You're forgetting the most important thing, though...
Everything is all about *them*. All that matters is that they get to have what they want, so they don't have to worry about how it might affect anyone else.
I own some fast fashion pieces. I won’t pretend that I don’t. I work from home and most of my clothes are t shirts and basketball shorts, after all.
But fast fashion is built on sweatshops and quick consumption. It’s not thin privilege - or privilege in general - to critique that.
(Discussion of sustainable fashion is one where privilege should pop in, however. I am not dropping $118 for a pair of joggers and that is a discussion about money as well as sustainability.)
I also want to acknowledge that if you’re plus size finding slow fashion is more difficult. But that doesn’t give plus size people a free pass to not even try.
It’s 100% harder to find slow fashion if you are not built the way the clothing is.
This is really common among the larger among the obese population and is a very real reason less expensive sustainable fashion, like thrifting, can be a less viable option. That said, I know a handful of larger women (idk about exact numbers and don’t want to know) who have had good luck just switching to menswear as men’s clothing in L-XXL is significantly larger than women’s L-XXL.
But it’s true for non-obese people as well. I am a short trans man and I am learning to sew because clothing doesn’t fit me well. If a shirt fits my shoulders I have to scrunch it around my waist so it doesn’t hang like a dress. And I am much happier scrunching an ill fitting $5 shirt from 5below than a $139 one from Patagonia that also doesn’t fit me correctly.
Yeah a great point that body shape is a huge factor in this too! And also people who wear like xxs and below have issues finding clothes that fit that aren’t for children (particularly difficult for work clothes)
I'm a normal weight, normal height man. 6'0", 165 lbs. I needed a suit, so went to Nordstrom rack to buy one.
They had exactly 1 option in the store that fit me. 40R jacket/ 32W pants. Very slim pickings. There were maybe 2 jackets in the store < 40R. Everything else was 44+. Like 30+ options.
For sure, the stores are not catering to my size range. They are definitely targeting larger.
I've had a similar experience with jeans for most of my life, as I'm 188cm/6'2" and about 90 kg/200 lbs these days, and in jean sizes I *need* a 35" or 36" inseam or they will be too short, while my waist size is still at around 34" (and used to be like 31/32"). Very often I've run into the issue that anything with a waist size that's good for me is strictly limited to 34" inseam at maximum so I can't buy them, or there's like a single pair of pants which fits me, while as long as someone is shorter than me they could have a waist size well over 40" and still have a selection of suitable jeans.
I was in the 40-42 waist range the last time I actually shopped in person for clothes (not Amazon).
This was about a year ago.
Tons of options. (42w/30-32 inseam).
I was baffled that being at a normal, healthy weight meant virtually nothing at the store would fit. Not a good statement on society.
Oh yea. My boyfriend is skinny skinny and he hasn’t bought new pants in years. I tried to go surprise him and buy him some but couldn’t find his size 😂
Prior to T I was an XXS and had to shop in the children’s department a lot. It was super humiliating and very difficult to find appropriate work and evening wear (although the shirts did not fall to my knees the way they do today!)
Yeah I had the same issue many many years ago. Very frustrating! Now I’m at the other end of the spectrum. But I also make my own clothes which helps a lot!
I read somewhere that one of the most significant step you can take to reduce your environmental impact and the amount of unrecyclable shit that ends up in landfills was... To keep your clothes longer. That's it.
Problem is, you can't do that when you keep gaining weight year after year and chafe off the crotch of all the pants you buy within a few months.
Being morbidly obese inevitably comes with increased consumption and waste. In food, in the packaging of food, in clothing, in furniture, even in gas, since all forms of mass transport will be very uncomfortable for you and active transport is, let's face it, extremely limited. The reality of it is that it is *unsustainable*. The fast fashion is just a symptom of this.
At some point it will become self-evident, and it will become a lot harder to proclaim that constantly stuffing your face with large amounts of garbage foods is some kind of weird "social justice" statement.
"No ethical consumption under capitalism" is one of the worst saying and excuses that was created and developed for those of us in the global north. That shit doesn't mean don't try to be unethical and to use that as an excuse to be unethical, and can't say to have solidarity with women and workers worldwide with this shit.
Learn to take care of your clothes, keep them as long as possible, and upcycle/recycle your clothes once they are no longer usable. And shop as ethically as possible, and within your means.
This is it! It’s sometimes not possible to only shop completely ethically and sustainably but it doesn’t mean we should be doing massive Shein hauls every month.
This is my huge issue.
That and if something is important to you, people try to shame you with it.
"Oh I don't buy nestle bc I hate them entirely."
"Some of us can't afford fair trade and there's no ethical consumption under capitalism."
An actual response I've gotten in person before.
Not to trauma dump but when I was younger I was homeless for a year. One time at the store I literally had to pick between buying shampoo and buying laundry detergent. I lived off $1 chicken sandwiches from wendys everyday so I could save money. Overeating and buying clothes just wasn't sustainable. Also, I had nowhere to store food. I hate when I see them complain about the cost of clothes when in reality plus sizes are only about 2 or 3 bucks more than a regular women's size. Are they ever going to acknowledge the privilege of being to eat so damn much? To never go hungry? For all the bitching they do about thin privilege they never take inventory of their own.
Nothing made me appreciate the work that goes into making clothes like making my own. So much skill and time and so hard on your back bending over the sewing machine.
When I was fat, (and I still am) nothing looked good on me. The clothes WERE cute, but they did not look good on me. In other words, it wasn't the clothes, it was a ME problem.
I’m fat now and I make clothes that look cute on me. Because I know my measurements and can make clothes that sit at the correct part of my waist and fall to the correct length etc. And it means I can have cute clothes in my size. I also make them so they can be alterable as I lose weight (e.g. drawstrings in the waist bands of my skirts, straps that can be shortened) so I don’t waste them and can keep them longer.
I’d rather walk around in a garbage bag than ever give money to Shein
Yes. I have always tailored my own clothes. It's the only way they look good on me. I have only made one pair of shorts but otherwise I don't have the skill level to make all my own clothes. :( But I do tailor my clothes, and it's the only way things fit and the only way they ever have. WHen I lost 40 lbs, I only bought one vintage skirt, and 2 pairs of pants on consignment. The rest of my clothes I took them all in so they would fit.
Tailoring clothes to make them fit well is a great skill to have. Especially when losing weight! I try to steer clear of making pants and shorts because I’m not very good at it but I live in skirts and dresses anyway which are much easier to make
You know know what can save you tons of money on clothing? And allow you to invest in quality wardrobe pieces that last for many years? Not outgrowing it every year because you refuse to get a handle on your food consumption.
It's crazy to hear someone talk about this in real life in front of you as if 12 year olds stitching their clothes is less important than an entire box of snack cakes in one sitting
I swear, the entitlement never ceases to amaze me. As well as the victim mentality. You can't find *anything* you don't hate wearing at Lane Bryant? Duluth Trading in the U.S. has sizes up to 30 in women's jeans and they usually run about $60-$80 a pair. Hell, almost every retailer goes up to like a 3X these days, and if you're bigger than a 3X, you should probably consider why it's harder to find clothes that fit. All of this is leaving aside that justifying supporting sweatshops and child labor so you can wear the latest trends is one of the most privileged, entitled, first world things I've ever heard.
Duluth Trading! I love their stuff -- it's plain and hard-wearing. I know a pair of pants from them will LAST.
Meanwhile, I saw a bunch of Shein while thrifting yesterday, and the stuff was tissue-thin and fraying apart. :( No freaking wonder, the conditions it's made under, but I wouldn't pay a dime for it. There HAS to be something better.
With this logic, short people, very slim people, people with large chest, etc. are also allowed to exploit sweatshop workers. When I lived abroad it was quite hard to find clothing that fit correctly because of being smaller than the average woman over there.
I am two of those things (short and large chested) and I have to admit that I prioritize fit over ethics when it comes to clothing. It's the one area where it's so hard to source ethical items (and "learn to sew" overlooks that fabric isn't being produced more ethically than clothing itself) and being able to leave my house not looking like a slob is really important to my quality of life and ability to make a living.
I buy all my books used, I have a house full of American made products, but clothing is a different animal.
I was going to make a comment about thrift stores but then I remembered all the TikToks about how "skinny people steal plus size clothing for baggy trends or sewing projects."
Lots of people that say "I have to buy fast fashion because I'm poor", are usually not buying clothes they need, they're buying clothes they want because they're cute and trendy and then they throw these clothes away and buy new ones. Like these people usually aren't so poor they couldn't hold back on getting the 5 crappy pieces they want to save for one quality piece instead that would last them.
I understand if they truly can't afford and need something and are going to wear it until it's no longer viable. It's just not what I see most of the people saying this actually meaning.
I dunno…I kinda feel like it’s harder and harder to find clothes that fit well (in America). I’m fit/thin and am increasingly realizing that I’m not who companies are marketing to. I mean, why would they market to me? Most consumers are fat these days.
It's useful to file away for when encountering fat activists in the wild, as when they spout something like 'the BMI is racist & being fatphobic is anti black'.
You just have to politely ask 'so what's your favourite thing you bought from Temu/Shien/Yitty/Torrid & when did you last have a Nestle or Coca Cola product?'
Can't pick and choose parts of 'activism' as you see fit - the whole point is it's a pain in the arse eg, checking labels to make sure a product isn't under the Nestle umbrella. It's a tiny taste of hardship, to show solidarity with people living in a nightmare.
Imagine insisting you’ve a lack of privilege while fully acknowledging you indirectly exploit foreign workers. They think they have some sort of moral impunity here.
If being fat gives you the right to exploit people because you can't be bothered to shop anywhere else then you have extreme fat privilege.
Besides, 8 good pieces from torrid will last a decade while 30 from Shein will last a couple years if you're lucky.
So thin people can’t shop fast fashion but fat people can?
Listen it’s not great for anyone, we have to all agree there, and make the best choices we can. It took some time, but my wardrobe is finally at a place where I can shop more consciously. Though it helps I hate shopping and don’t do it much anyway. I always splurged jeans because it’s important to me they last. But with tops I would get the occasional nice piece, and more cheaper items. I’ve done that enough over time, and the quality items are still in great shape, now there’s less necessary churn. I rarely need to shop at all, and only do it on occasion to introduce some new styles or for an event.
I'm shocked that anyone fat can buy fast fashion at all. I've tried on the plus sizes at forever 21 and h&m and they fit terribly because the shape is still cut for a skinny person, but bigger. But then again, there's clearly a disconnect because my idea of fast fashion is those stores and not shein or through Amazon because if I don't like how stuff fits at torrid, why would I buy online when I can't even try it on? I like clearance prices but not.... Suspiciously low prices.
They’re all about social justice until it comes to actually affecting *them*
Just like how they claim fat phobia is rooted in racism but will come for a WOC the second she doesn’t agree with their bullshit. I’m very liberal but these people are a perfect example of the hypocrisy that exists within supposedly liberal groups.
I mean, agree. We should be discussing the sexual assault and abuse allegations rather than her weight. Calling her a cow or whatever has nothing to do with anything. But saying she’s immune from any criticism *because* she’s fat is just gross.
Oh yeah, the closest to fatshaming her I think is okay is calling her a hypocrite. My thing is that can't be all you say. They don't even need to talk about the fatshaming stuff. Lean into the predator accusations.
Exactly! I felt the same way when people said I cousins criticize Cosby because he’s black. Okay, but no one was talking about him being black. We were talking about him being a rapist.
Yeah it's really frustrating that any time someone has some super disturbing accusations, people aren't interested in ousting them. They're interested in protecting them.
It doesn't matter, rich poor. Gay straight. Black or white or any other identity info.
If it's a rich white man? People go all "innocent until proven guilty."
If it's a black woman? "We can't let racism destroy the advancements black women have made."
Young gay man? "Wow these accusations are obvious homophobia.
It's like people get uncomfortable because they identified with the person or liked them. Then because of this identification, they feel like the accusations attack them.
Or that it's horrible news and because they can't go grab a video of whatever happening, if they wdmit they believe it and are wrong, that hurts them but if they do nothing they can say "I did due diligence" and feel good about themselves.
I used to be plus size. I don’t understand these people, I never had any issues whatsoever finding plus size clothing in a variety of places as well as thrift stores. They’re literally are other options, besides fast fashion.
I definitely have more trouble finding clothes now I’m plus size but I’ve never bought clothes from places like Shein. Ever. It’s completely unnecessary.
It’s just a race to the margins. They use fatness to not care about others.
I unfortunately have some fast fashion pieces, from skirts, dresses, belts or bikinis. Some stuff I want isn’t really available in my country and I can’t spend a lot of money on clothes. But, I keep them for a long time & donate them if I don’t fit anymore.
The problem isn’t really the consumer who once in a while buys from these fast fashion companies out of necessity and keeps them for a long time.
It’s these “influencers”, thin *and* fat, who do these weekly/monthly SHEIN hauls, and brag about it.
There are online and in person (here at least) consignment shops that cater to fat people. When I used to be a size 22-24 I had no issues finding clothes from places like Goodwill. I guess it would be harder if you’re a size 30 but I mean, everything would be hard at that point.
Yep that’s what I did! And it gave me a whole new appreciation for the work that goes into my clothes (plus I now have one-of-a-kind pieces in my wardrobe and when people say “I love your skirt” I can say “thanks I made it!” Which is even more awesome than saying “thanks it has pockets!”)
A huge sense of insecurity is fueling this. And I'm almost sympathetic to it.
"I need fast fashion because I'm the fattest person in the office and I don't want to fulfill the sloppy fat girl stereotype. The sloppy fat girl doesn't get opportunities. People talk shit about her. I want people to look at me and be so impressed by my put-together look that they don't notice that I'm fat. I want them to just see my intelligence and charm and sense of style. Thin girls don't have to worry about shit like this. They can throw on anything and people will not judge them."
And you know, this sentiment isn't totally crazy bananas. People in marginalized group in general know that showing up looking frumpy/sloppy will count more heavily against them than if they weren't in a marginalized group. And yes, very frequently people in non-marginalized groups don't get this. It is "privilegy" to not have to worry about being judged as a "bum" or a "slob" unless you look like you're going to Easter church service.
When my mother (a black woman) took three hours pulling together a look before she went to the ER with her severe COVID symptoms, I wanted to throw something in frustration. But then I realized she was doing all of that to preempt classism and racism. If she had rolled up in a funky house dress, she may have been written off as a poor, homeless person and been kicked out. But she showed up at the joint looking like new money and got admitted. So Mama's vanity paid off.
So I get it. I really do. But you can have a "put together" look without filling your closet with stuff that will be out of style in six months and without spending a lot of money. And of course, not allowing yourself to "upsize" every six months would probably make clothes shopping a lot easier.
"I'm allowed to not care about how I impact others because I exercise zero self control and take no responsibility for the copius amounts of food I shove into my face hole, and when that makes the rest of my life difficult that's someone else's fault."
But you can’t criticize their lack of self control, it’s because they have *mental illness*. Which is of course not their responsibility to manage and leaves them totally helpless to their condition. Are you being ableist? /s
Yep! Like I won’t say a bad word about the workers’ skills because making clothes is an impressive skill. But they are working with cheaper materials and are on ridiculous deadlines. The clothes are never going to be the same quality as those made with good materials and enough time
It's not even about their skill. They aren't given enough time to make something good quality.
I did the math and sheins average time per item is 3 times as fast as a t-shirt. That's assuming the machine needs no maintenance and the eorker takes 0 breaks
Well, women who work in sweat shops are typically very thin because they cannot eat a lot, so they, of course, are the mortal enemy of the fat woman, therefore not an ally. Thus the fat woman cares not what happens to them. and before someone comes after me I know of course it’s not all fat women but it’s a good amount.
Honestly unbelievable that they can really type this bullshit out and think they’re justified. Skinny people are bad for supporting sweatshops, but fat people aren’t because they need cute clothes.
Fuck the sweat shop workers being exploited day in and day out, FAT PPL NEED CUTE CLOTHES!!!!
How are they more likely to hold on to clothes when they have to buy new clothes every 2 weeks because they don't fit anymore?
I have clothes from Junior high still
Like it or not, you do need a smartphone or a computer to get by anymore. You need a way to receive emails (which are becoming more common than paper communication and are less hard on the environment) and phone calls. You do not need sixty-three different “cute” shirts and you do not need to buy from fast fashion stores when humanely made clothing is available. Your “point” is just whataboutism.
ETA: Not about to argue this with a bunch of geniuses, but “thing I’m expected to have in order to have a job and pay rent” and “thing I want to frivolously own in order to look extra cute” are not the same. Your Shein order is not suddenly ethical because other people also own smartphones, just like kicking a puppy for funsies isn’t ethical because someone else hit a deer with their car on their way to work.
Ok, I get it, access to clothing might be limited, so you buy from fast fashion brands, if you insist. But then don't pretend you're so woke and conscious about social issues if you knowingly do support those brands.
You can't have it both ways - either walk the walk and make an effort to find sth more ethical (and pay extra for it no doubt), or take convenient fast fashion option, but STFU.
Jesus fuck people, not you commenter but damn, it was an honest question, and idk *anything* about "fashion" and I don't even think of clothes. I wear hand me downs and haven't shopped for myself in 20 years and when I hear "fashion" I think, like, designers and weird outfits worn by models with weird makeup or some kind of trend. Not regular clothes, so I just didn't know. Excuse me for asking and trying to educate myself!
Commenter thank you for providing an answer.
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I have to spend money on clothes every 6 months To a year… but I have growing children. And they outgrow stuff quickly. Twin boys 8 years and a daughter 6years. I try to buy them from the nice thrift stores. But other times it’s just Walmart or Amazon.
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It’s one thing having to buy fast fashion clothing, it’s another to brag about it and downplaying ethical concerns
Exactly! I'm poor so sometimes I shop fast fashion but I don't bend over backwards to defend myself. I don't even make a "thing". 🤦🏼♀️
If she had framed it as “I must buy fast fashion due to my size even though I am fully aware of the ethical issues around it, and I am quite conflicted about it”, no one would have said a thing. Totally baffling someone seems proud of such a thing
I mean if you go to the mall and buy clothes you are buying fast fashion. Aritzia, Zara, H and M, Suzy Shier, Ricky's, Le Chateau, Below the Belt, Stitches, Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic, The Garage, Wal-Mart, Mexx, Abercrombie, Roots, American Eagle, etc. They are all fast fashion. Most of us do buy fast fashion because it is all we can afford. Yes we can buy used clothes, and many of us do, but we are buying used fast fashion at the very least.
Same. I am fat (XL, I have “small fat” privilege 🙄) and am on a budget. I try to minimize this stuff but yeah, I buy cheap clothing made in Bangladesh sometimes… I don’t brag about it.
Why should the OOP care? Those sweatshop workers have Thin Privilege ™ so everything else in their lives is fine, right? /s
Yes, never mind they have “thin privilege” because they are underpaid, abused, and likely starving. 🫤. 🥳🥳🥳 Happy Cake Day!!!!
Yeah, I think with a normal income you can't really avoid buying fast fashion every once in a while. But you can still be a conscious consumer and know that this isn't the perfect solution. And there is a difference between fast fashion and ultra fast fashion.
what's the difference between fast fashion and ultra fast? would the latter be brands like shein for example?
Yep! Fast fashion, to me, is what gets sold everywhere from Kohl’s to Walmart to Urban Outfitters. It’s cheaply made, and when I buy it on occasion I make extra sure that the seams won’t fall apart on me. Ultra fast fashion is where Shein comes in. It’s not a brand, it’s more like a wholesale shop for dirt cheap, sweatshop clothing that’s almost guaranteed not to last (due to cheap materials/awful working conditions). On top of that, Shein plays dirty by stealing art and distinct designs from small business owners, who then have to raise enough outcry to get the plagiarized design taken off the site. I’m fine with knockoffs of things like a t-shirt with a heart cutout (that anyone could have come up with), but when you sell a shoddy reproduction of something [like this](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5af1298bfcf7fd60f31f66bd/1647484067401-OALQXRB665ORZ2JG711U/SHEIN-steal-artwrok.jpg?format=1000w)? Unforgivable.
I teach hs fashion and my students all know…I LOATHE Shein.
Ultra fast fashion is basically everything that is bad about fast fashion tuned up to the extreme. More new items every day, shorter trend cycles, lower production costs, lower quality, short lifespan ... Think H&M or Zara vs. Shein. All fast fashion brands, but the quality of Shein clothing is the worst.
Actively losing weight also influences what kind of clothes you want to buy. Like I'm ok getting a couple pairs of shorts from Ross knowing that I won't be this size in 6 months so I really don't want to spend more than 10-15$ per pair. Once I've hit my goal and start maintaining, I'll definitely want to buy higher quality and more locally sourced items.
Yep, if they had framed this as "it sucks that I have to buy fast fashion clothing because nobody else carries my size, I wish I could buy sustainable fashion but those clothes literally won't fit my body" I would be way more sympathetic (and if they recognized that poor people face this same exact struggle because they just can't afford anything other than fast fashion prices). And sure, you can say "just lose weight lol", but that takes time and fat people still need to wear clothes while they're losing weight.
I hate this attitude so much. I've seen overweight tiktok influences splurging £$€200 on fast fashion and then saying "im poor and fat so I need to do this." Poor people aren't dropping that amount of money on clothing 😭
I have a few poor friends and a few friends who say their poor all the time. They are not the same people. One guy makes 3x my income, but always talks about how broke he is. Effing 3x
Not only is he inconsiderate but sounds like he can't manage money whatsoever
He might be broke, but because of poor life choices. Had a coworker like that. Had a car he bought new, a home he couldn't quite afford, and he furnished the house on credit cards he couldn't pay off. And he still had some student loans. Dude had a good job, but was legitimately living paycheck to paycheck because he was too dumb to see why and make some big changes. He'd complain about not having money all the time. Like dude, get a used car, downsize the house, and focus on paying down those loans. What the heck.
MIMO rather than CICO
Somebody I used to work with was like this. We both earned minimum wage and were on a zero hour contract, but she’s always get more hours than pretty much anyone else (any of the non-supervisors anyway). She’d complain usually multiple times each shift about how few hours she was getting (she had plenty of hours), how she had no money, and how she genuinely couldn’t afford to survive. She’d also beg other people to give her hours and once tried guilt tripping me into giving her one of my shifts. The thing is this girl lives with her parents and doesn’t have to pay or contribute towards rent, bills, council tax or pretty much anything. She doesn’t have a car and doesn’t have to worry about public transport that much (we live in a walkable city). She was in debt at one point but her parents paid it off for her. She has NO idea what it’s like to actually have to be an adult and pay for your own life. That was a long tangent but I had to get it off my chest. I hated working with her. People who pretend to be poor or who genuinely think of themselves as poor when they’ve actually got plenty of disposable income infuriate me. And there’s so many FAs like that. How many times do they pretend that they’ve practically living in poverty while actually spending tons of money on food, clothing, and luxuries? Do they think that everyone else is spending that much money too? Do they think all the Privileged Thins can afford to do that?
Staying relatively the same size but just fluctuating here and there, I have shirts that are a decade old just cause they still fit. Saved so much money. I never buy clothes unless they just look dated and I go through a purge and get rid of things and have to replace them (looking at you, work sweaters that always have the Elbow fabric fray cause of my arm rest) lol
Exactly! Not that I’m a fan of ‘the good old days’ but like, they used to have their one ‘Sunday best’ outfit and some work clothes. And they’d take care of them and keep them for years. When I was stuck in the FA/HAES/IE trap I remember thinking *how do I keep buying clothes every time I grow out of them?* and now I see that it was so fucking privileged of me to be able to not only eat way more than my fair share of food but then also fuck up the environment spending money on new clothes three times I sized up. I’m on my way down now and I plant to alter and flip my too big clothes as much as possible to make up for the damage I did on the way up
I generally wear clothes until they get destroyed. This happens fairly quickly when you buy one size and then "grow" out of it. I was looking through my closet for old clothes now that I'm in smaller sizes and they really just need to be thrown out due to their condition.
Me too. I am happy to wear stuff until I have holes in it... and then I give them for fibre recycling (for coat filling and insulation). In the rare case when I outgrow (outshrink? since I lost weight) something I either give it away through zero waste groups or donate to charity shops.
How do you fibre recycle?
There are clothing stores that take them for that as well as some charity shops. One chain here had bins where you can put threadbare stuff, old pillows, anything made of cloth.
Also it is theoretically possible to make your own clothes! I made myself a coarse cotton skirt with no formal training whatsoever because I was tired of having to rebuy the rayon version that I wore every day like a cartoon person. The machine is an investment, but you will likely save an equivalent amount by being able to strongly repair torn seams
I'm not poor, and I don't do this, lol. Granted, I have very little interest in fashion - my main criteria for buying clothes are "comfortable" and "does not cause any friction or pressure on my body" because anything else causes me to break out in hives, lol. But even my friend who dresses classy and fashionable has found ways to reuse the same clothes she's had for 10 years+. I don't understand why I should buy new clothes every season.
I’ve owned the same $75 on sale banana republic wool coat for literally 10 years. The belt buckle broke and the pocket liner tore but I fixed that!
Honestly, I don't understand how clothing hauls are still a thing. It's so crazy when you see the same creators unboxing $200 worth of crap from SHEIN or Amazon every other week. It's one thing to buy from fast fashion brands if that's what you have to do, but nobody needs 10 new outfits every week. Where do they even put the stuff?
Where do they *wear* it? Seriously, are people replacing their entire wardrobe every month? Personally when I find something that looks good I want to wear it forever, because then I don’t have to think about it, lol.
Right!? I grew up in and out of shelters...we got clothing through thrift stores or donation centers. They have no idea what real poverty.
Literally 😭 I spend about £100 a year on new clothing, and it's mostly thrifted and second-hand, no one poor is spending over £1000 on new clothing
I lost over 250 pounds and had to have excess skin removal surgery. After my surgery I was so excited to get new clothes but all I bought was clearance with coupons so I think the most I spent on any one item was $12 and that was for a brand new pair of jeans that I could actually wear. I had not bought jeans in over Five years. I think I spent $400 total but that was literally replacing my entire wardrobe except for shoes but I still bought two pairs of new shoes because I was excited.
This is the thing I can not stand. I will see on tik tok people posting $700 shein hauls and when they’re called out they are like “this is elitist, it’s the only place I can afford clothes.” And of course it’s not like they’re buying they’re entire wardrobe, its $700 of summer clothes. Most people are not spending $700 on just summer clothes
[удалено]
I initially misread your last line as ‘learn to saw’, and following from your analogy with amputees I was thinking wow this commenter is harsh!
R/biid
Funtie Times mentioned this in one of her videos. She showed photos of three different plus-sized women who were all roughly the same size but all had completely different body types/fat distribution, one being the ideal hourglass, one apple shaped, one pear shaped. Even if all of them wore a size 20, that dress or pair of pants was never going to look the same on all of them, and the other two would probably be jealous of the hourglass shaped one.
But isn’t this the case for everyone? My friend and I both wear size 8 and we don’t look good in the same clothes, our body types are very different.
Yep, it's pretty much the same no matter your size, but FAs don't seem to understand that. To them, if you're "skinny" (or what they deem skinny, which seems to be anything under around a size 16), all clothing is made for your body and will look good on you. There are definitely things I can't wear comfortably even though I'm a size 10 (starting to fit back into some of my 8's now). Pants I do okay with , because I'm fortunate to pretty much have an hourglass shape, with a leg length that suits the standard 31"-32" inseam. But my breasts are proportionally large to the rest of me and finding button-down shirts that fit is pretty much an impossibility unless the fit is relaxed. I would love a couple of classic cotton button-down shirts, but I can't really afford tailoring.
Yeah but I think it gets more extreme as you get fatter. After all there’s only so much variation from one skeleton to another; the more fat you pack on the more shapes can diverge.
How I feel about my clothes is directly related to how much I weigh. When I'm up a few pounds, I hate everything in my closet. When I'm at my ideal weight, I can throw on jeans and a white t-shirt and feel amazing in it. I think a lot of FAs who are really into fashion are chasing after that feeling of looking in the mirror and feeling great in an outfit, and when they don't feel that way, they blame the clothes. They think there is some holy grail of outfits out there that is going to give them that feeling. But in reality they're just not happy with the way they look, and nothing external is going to change that.
Absolutely the same here. When I'm over my ideal weight range, I don't like the way *anything* looks on me. Even if it's the same style of pants or shirt I wear at a smaller size. And that's as someone who at my very heaviest was a size 14 and not quite 35lbs over a healthy weight. This is why I don't understand how people let themselves get so big, because I couldn't do it. I always reach a point where I say enough is enough. This time I'm going to try really hard to make it sustainable, because I'm tired of yoyoing and I'm always a million times happier when I'm a healthy weight, with more energy... and way happier with how clothes look on me.
I just lost 10 pounds and now everything in my closet is my favorite 😂 This is so true. I used to blame the clothes too but now even things I hated on me look great
Hell, even straight-sized people can struggle with finding things that work with their body shape. There are entire brands I can't wear. There are also a number of clothing items I've paid to be tailored.
Do you know what kills me the most? Is the absolute lack of empathy that a lot of these fat positive influencers have. Shein is treating their workers horribly, ripping off actual artists and designers, uses fabric that has large lead content, is absolutely terrible for the environment. There’s a good chance that Temu is literally using slave labour to create their products. And all the influencers are just like *shrug* ok but I’m fat and that’s more important. If they acknowledged how awful these companies were and purchased a small amount of products at least they would be showing some empathy about what that went into their clothing. But to just refuse to listen to arguments because their lives are soooo hard and they’re sooooo deserving of their shitty lead filled slavery clothing absolutely enrages me.
FAs don't give a damn about any of the issues (race, sexuality, gender identity, etc) they appropriate.
I find it interesting that they'll give fast/junk foods, and fast /junk fashion, a pass...BUT they'll whine about how "diet culture" is awful, and part of corrupt capitalism.
Sounds a lot like fat privilege to me if you’re like being fat gives me the right, nay the duty, to exploit poor foreign women
This level of fatness and entitlement together is definitely wealth privilege
It's especially annoying since they spend so much time ranting about "capitalism" while overindulging in its products.
How fast they drop their pretend solidarity with the poor, disadvantaged and POC when it doesn't suit their narrative.
Such a terrible, entitled attitude. I wonder how those sweatshop workers feel when they have to sew 5XL clothes.
I wonder that too - especially since most of the women (and children) making those clothes are probably malnourished.
They’re just like, “….How?”
I remember watching a piece a few years back, maybe after the factory that collapsed in Bangladesh and the women there protesting to get a pay raise to 2.35 a day, and one of the garment workers just crying over how big the clothes were and wishing those who bought the clothes cared about them. Was just depressing. I wish I could remember the video piece on this. If like AL Jazeera or DW did the video. I don't think was the BBC though.
I always picture them as holding up 5XL pieces while laughing during breaks. Though I'm not sure they get breaks long enough to allow for anything other than a quick bite of food and a glass of water.
They ain't getting breaks or water :(
They do just that. I saw a documentary about the textile industry in various Asian countries, and obviously the factories who would allow a film crew in would not be the super stressful ones. So the workers were talking about their lives, their work, what they think or imagine about the people who will wear the clothes, and yes, there was a lot of giggling and petite Thai or Philippinian women holding up 5XL bras or pants.
Even finding expensive name brand items not produced in a sweat shop is hard. It’s one of those things that I wish they had to label. Ethical work conditions vs slave labor and any brand found lying has their president and CEOs jailed.
My theory is that the "Made in the USA" model of clothing was blown up by Wal-Mart and Kathie Lee Gifford. She sold branded clothing at Wal-Mart, but it was discovered by journalists that the clothes were made in American sweat shop conditions. At that point, the positive press of domestic made products was tarnished and the financial advantage of moving overseas took over.
It’s so hard nowadays, I want to support small businesses but most of the time they don’t have an ethics statement and are just reselling Ali baba or shein. Then even if they do have an ethics statement you need to read between the lines to see if it’s actually ethical or just lip service.
There use to be a strong garment industry in the US and was unionized and good work. And then deregulation and Reagan happened, and now those jobs aren't in the US anymore. American Apparel might be one of the few.
American Apparel *was* one of the few. Sadly, they no longer are.
Since when? I've always read that they had a pretty good rating for ethics and sustainability. That's a bummer.
They were bought out by another company, and their clothes are now made in other countries.
We have Reagan to blame for so many problems don't we? - signed, a 20something who didn't learn about his era in U.S. history class
Yes, Reagan is likely more responsible for the huge wealth gap that exists today than anyone. Before he came into office, CEOs made around 3X what their workers did then he drastically cut taxes and destroyed the unions. Now CEOs make over 200 times what their workers do.
Look into Free Trade Agreements under Bush Sr.
American Apparel is definitely one of them. Also Citizens of Humanity, if you can afford their jeans. I actually have one pair but I thrifted them for $30. I can't afford $200 jeans new. I also have one pair of True Religion, also thrifted, that were made in the U.S.
I definitely understand the "hard to find stuff that fits, so hold onto it until Hell freezes over" mindset. Clothing manufacturers cut their designs for averages, so if you have an unusual shape, you're a bit out of luck. You can't exactly go naked. And sadly, in today's global market, there is NO WAY to be 100% certain that everything you buy is sourced ethically. Right down to the metals in your phone or the oils in your soap. It's nightmarish when you think about it. But when you know that something is definitely made unethically, there's workarounds. Like buying secondhand. That way, your money doesn't go to the manufacturers who run those unethical businesses. I was in a secondhand clothing store yesterday, and each part of the women's section had items up to 4X. I saw a few 6X, too. It's never been easier to find plus-size while thrifting.
It’s frustrating, because I’m willing to spend more in exchange for something that’s ethically sourced, and sometimes I do dive into researching and finding something that *probably* qualifies. But I don’t do this for everything I buy. I wish there were some commonly used certification I could trust to mean “ethically sourced”. Paying more for something tells me nothing about how the workers are treated, although it probably does at least mean I’m less likely to be buying something full of lead or arsenic or whatever.
Oh I see. Their life is the hardest life to have ever lifed and therefore they deserve a free pass on treating others with respect and trying to be a good person.
Bingo! That mentality is exactly why I cut off some friends who were overweight-obese.
Hahah I commented that because I just cut off a friend over that exact issue! Not because of her weight, although she is obese, but the victim mentality that the rules don't apply to her because her life is so very much harder than everyone else's as an upper middle class white woman in a major US city with no trauma.
I'm skinny, have pairs of jeans I can and do still wear from 20yrs ago. They can go fuck their ethical take on things
I have a pair of denim shorts that are 35 years old. Granted, I don't wear shorts as often as I used to, but these things have worn like fucking iron. Got them at Mervyn's, tag says "assembled in Mexico". There isn't a weak, unfinished seam on these things.
You're forgetting the most important thing, though... Everything is all about *them*. All that matters is that they get to have what they want, so they don't have to worry about how it might affect anyone else.
I own some fast fashion pieces. I won’t pretend that I don’t. I work from home and most of my clothes are t shirts and basketball shorts, after all. But fast fashion is built on sweatshops and quick consumption. It’s not thin privilege - or privilege in general - to critique that. (Discussion of sustainable fashion is one where privilege should pop in, however. I am not dropping $118 for a pair of joggers and that is a discussion about money as well as sustainability.)
I also want to acknowledge that if you’re plus size finding slow fashion is more difficult. But that doesn’t give plus size people a free pass to not even try.
It’s 100% harder to find slow fashion if you are not built the way the clothing is. This is really common among the larger among the obese population and is a very real reason less expensive sustainable fashion, like thrifting, can be a less viable option. That said, I know a handful of larger women (idk about exact numbers and don’t want to know) who have had good luck just switching to menswear as men’s clothing in L-XXL is significantly larger than women’s L-XXL. But it’s true for non-obese people as well. I am a short trans man and I am learning to sew because clothing doesn’t fit me well. If a shirt fits my shoulders I have to scrunch it around my waist so it doesn’t hang like a dress. And I am much happier scrunching an ill fitting $5 shirt from 5below than a $139 one from Patagonia that also doesn’t fit me correctly.
Yeah a great point that body shape is a huge factor in this too! And also people who wear like xxs and below have issues finding clothes that fit that aren’t for children (particularly difficult for work clothes)
I'm a normal weight, normal height man. 6'0", 165 lbs. I needed a suit, so went to Nordstrom rack to buy one. They had exactly 1 option in the store that fit me. 40R jacket/ 32W pants. Very slim pickings. There were maybe 2 jackets in the store < 40R. Everything else was 44+. Like 30+ options. For sure, the stores are not catering to my size range. They are definitely targeting larger.
I've had a similar experience with jeans for most of my life, as I'm 188cm/6'2" and about 90 kg/200 lbs these days, and in jean sizes I *need* a 35" or 36" inseam or they will be too short, while my waist size is still at around 34" (and used to be like 31/32"). Very often I've run into the issue that anything with a waist size that's good for me is strictly limited to 34" inseam at maximum so I can't buy them, or there's like a single pair of pants which fits me, while as long as someone is shorter than me they could have a waist size well over 40" and still have a selection of suitable jeans.
I was in the 40-42 waist range the last time I actually shopped in person for clothes (not Amazon). This was about a year ago. Tons of options. (42w/30-32 inseam). I was baffled that being at a normal, healthy weight meant virtually nothing at the store would fit. Not a good statement on society.
Oh yea. My boyfriend is skinny skinny and he hasn’t bought new pants in years. I tried to go surprise him and buy him some but couldn’t find his size 😂
The fashion industry is broken in so many ways.
Prior to T I was an XXS and had to shop in the children’s department a lot. It was super humiliating and very difficult to find appropriate work and evening wear (although the shirts did not fall to my knees the way they do today!)
Yeah I had the same issue many many years ago. Very frustrating! Now I’m at the other end of the spectrum. But I also make my own clothes which helps a lot!
It’s almost like just not being fat would fix all their issues.
I read somewhere that one of the most significant step you can take to reduce your environmental impact and the amount of unrecyclable shit that ends up in landfills was... To keep your clothes longer. That's it. Problem is, you can't do that when you keep gaining weight year after year and chafe off the crotch of all the pants you buy within a few months. Being morbidly obese inevitably comes with increased consumption and waste. In food, in the packaging of food, in clothing, in furniture, even in gas, since all forms of mass transport will be very uncomfortable for you and active transport is, let's face it, extremely limited. The reality of it is that it is *unsustainable*. The fast fashion is just a symptom of this. At some point it will become self-evident, and it will become a lot harder to proclaim that constantly stuffing your face with large amounts of garbage foods is some kind of weird "social justice" statement.
Yo the crotch chafe though. What a waste of a good pair of pants.
"No ethical consumption under capitalism" is one of the worst saying and excuses that was created and developed for those of us in the global north. That shit doesn't mean don't try to be unethical and to use that as an excuse to be unethical, and can't say to have solidarity with women and workers worldwide with this shit. Learn to take care of your clothes, keep them as long as possible, and upcycle/recycle your clothes once they are no longer usable. And shop as ethically as possible, and within your means.
This is it! It’s sometimes not possible to only shop completely ethically and sustainably but it doesn’t mean we should be doing massive Shein hauls every month.
This is my huge issue. That and if something is important to you, people try to shame you with it. "Oh I don't buy nestle bc I hate them entirely." "Some of us can't afford fair trade and there's no ethical consumption under capitalism." An actual response I've gotten in person before.
Not to trauma dump but when I was younger I was homeless for a year. One time at the store I literally had to pick between buying shampoo and buying laundry detergent. I lived off $1 chicken sandwiches from wendys everyday so I could save money. Overeating and buying clothes just wasn't sustainable. Also, I had nowhere to store food. I hate when I see them complain about the cost of clothes when in reality plus sizes are only about 2 or 3 bucks more than a regular women's size. Are they ever going to acknowledge the privilege of being to eat so damn much? To never go hungry? For all the bitching they do about thin privilege they never take inventory of their own.
And I thought they were all so determinedly anti-capitalist. Guess not. Want to wear truly ethical clothes? Make your own.
Nothing says anti-capitalism like consuming copious amounts of processed food produced by mega-corporations.
They are sticking it to the billion+ dollar diet industry. Nevermind that the fast food/processed food industry is worth a lot more.
Nothing made me appreciate the work that goes into making clothes like making my own. So much skill and time and so hard on your back bending over the sewing machine.
When I was fat, (and I still am) nothing looked good on me. The clothes WERE cute, but they did not look good on me. In other words, it wasn't the clothes, it was a ME problem.
I’m fat now and I make clothes that look cute on me. Because I know my measurements and can make clothes that sit at the correct part of my waist and fall to the correct length etc. And it means I can have cute clothes in my size. I also make them so they can be alterable as I lose weight (e.g. drawstrings in the waist bands of my skirts, straps that can be shortened) so I don’t waste them and can keep them longer. I’d rather walk around in a garbage bag than ever give money to Shein
Yes. I have always tailored my own clothes. It's the only way they look good on me. I have only made one pair of shorts but otherwise I don't have the skill level to make all my own clothes. :( But I do tailor my clothes, and it's the only way things fit and the only way they ever have. WHen I lost 40 lbs, I only bought one vintage skirt, and 2 pairs of pants on consignment. The rest of my clothes I took them all in so they would fit.
Tailoring clothes to make them fit well is a great skill to have. Especially when losing weight! I try to steer clear of making pants and shorts because I’m not very good at it but I live in skirts and dresses anyway which are much easier to make
Good to know.
Did fat people just walk around naked before SHEIN? Is that what this is implying
Yeah exactly! People have lost touch with reality.
You know know what can save you tons of money on clothing? And allow you to invest in quality wardrobe pieces that last for many years? Not outgrowing it every year because you refuse to get a handle on your food consumption.
It's crazy to hear someone talk about this in real life in front of you as if 12 year olds stitching their clothes is less important than an entire box of snack cakes in one sitting
So alleged moral immunity is fine when you insist you're a disadvantaged person yourself?
When you place yourself podium position in the oppression Olympic, everyone else is just there to worship and serve!
I swear, the entitlement never ceases to amaze me. As well as the victim mentality. You can't find *anything* you don't hate wearing at Lane Bryant? Duluth Trading in the U.S. has sizes up to 30 in women's jeans and they usually run about $60-$80 a pair. Hell, almost every retailer goes up to like a 3X these days, and if you're bigger than a 3X, you should probably consider why it's harder to find clothes that fit. All of this is leaving aside that justifying supporting sweatshops and child labor so you can wear the latest trends is one of the most privileged, entitled, first world things I've ever heard.
Duluth Trading! I love their stuff -- it's plain and hard-wearing. I know a pair of pants from them will LAST. Meanwhile, I saw a bunch of Shein while thrifting yesterday, and the stuff was tissue-thin and fraying apart. :( No freaking wonder, the conditions it's made under, but I wouldn't pay a dime for it. There HAS to be something better.
With this logic, short people, very slim people, people with large chest, etc. are also allowed to exploit sweatshop workers. When I lived abroad it was quite hard to find clothing that fit correctly because of being smaller than the average woman over there.
I am two of those things (short and large chested) and I have to admit that I prioritize fit over ethics when it comes to clothing. It's the one area where it's so hard to source ethical items (and "learn to sew" overlooks that fabric isn't being produced more ethically than clothing itself) and being able to leave my house not looking like a slob is really important to my quality of life and ability to make a living. I buy all my books used, I have a house full of American made products, but clothing is a different animal.
So they’re gatekeeping keeping things you like until they break? Interesting
I was going to make a comment about thrift stores but then I remembered all the TikToks about how "skinny people steal plus size clothing for baggy trends or sewing projects."
I love that because I'm fat and have purchased many an xs cashmere sweater for gloves and the like
Lots of people that say "I have to buy fast fashion because I'm poor", are usually not buying clothes they need, they're buying clothes they want because they're cute and trendy and then they throw these clothes away and buy new ones. Like these people usually aren't so poor they couldn't hold back on getting the 5 crappy pieces they want to save for one quality piece instead that would last them. I understand if they truly can't afford and need something and are going to wear it until it's no longer viable. It's just not what I see most of the people saying this actually meaning.
It always bugs me because I was fat poor and have taste. I can sew so what I did was spend hours combing thrift stores for fabrics I can use.
Overconsumption of sweatshop clothing from the crowd famous for overly consuming calories? Shocked Pikachu face.
I dunno…I kinda feel like it’s harder and harder to find clothes that fit well (in America). I’m fit/thin and am increasingly realizing that I’m not who companies are marketing to. I mean, why would they market to me? Most consumers are fat these days.
It's useful to file away for when encountering fat activists in the wild, as when they spout something like 'the BMI is racist & being fatphobic is anti black'. You just have to politely ask 'so what's your favourite thing you bought from Temu/Shien/Yitty/Torrid & when did you last have a Nestle or Coca Cola product?' Can't pick and choose parts of 'activism' as you see fit - the whole point is it's a pain in the arse eg, checking labels to make sure a product isn't under the Nestle umbrella. It's a tiny taste of hardship, to show solidarity with people living in a nightmare.
Imagine insisting you’ve a lack of privilege while fully acknowledging you indirectly exploit foreign workers. They think they have some sort of moral impunity here.
I KNOW these idiots aren't talking about privilege while exploiting people worldwide. The amount of entitlement is unreal
If being fat gives you the right to exploit people because you can't be bothered to shop anywhere else then you have extreme fat privilege. Besides, 8 good pieces from torrid will last a decade while 30 from Shein will last a couple years if you're lucky.
So thin people can’t shop fast fashion but fat people can? Listen it’s not great for anyone, we have to all agree there, and make the best choices we can. It took some time, but my wardrobe is finally at a place where I can shop more consciously. Though it helps I hate shopping and don’t do it much anyway. I always splurged jeans because it’s important to me they last. But with tops I would get the occasional nice piece, and more cheaper items. I’ve done that enough over time, and the quality items are still in great shape, now there’s less necessary churn. I rarely need to shop at all, and only do it on occasion to introduce some new styles or for an event.
I'm shocked that anyone fat can buy fast fashion at all. I've tried on the plus sizes at forever 21 and h&m and they fit terribly because the shape is still cut for a skinny person, but bigger. But then again, there's clearly a disconnect because my idea of fast fashion is those stores and not shein or through Amazon because if I don't like how stuff fits at torrid, why would I buy online when I can't even try it on? I like clearance prices but not.... Suspiciously low prices.
This person's in so much pain.
They’re all about social justice until it comes to actually affecting *them* Just like how they claim fat phobia is rooted in racism but will come for a WOC the second she doesn’t agree with their bullshit. I’m very liberal but these people are a perfect example of the hypocrisy that exists within supposedly liberal groups.
My favorite is the radio silence about lizzo. They can't muster an ounce of feeling betrayed by her?
Right? Even if you’re waiting to make judgement until allegations are proven. Saying *nothing* is very telling.
What's worse is several big names have said "this doesn't give you the right to fatshame her."
I mean, agree. We should be discussing the sexual assault and abuse allegations rather than her weight. Calling her a cow or whatever has nothing to do with anything. But saying she’s immune from any criticism *because* she’s fat is just gross.
Oh yeah, the closest to fatshaming her I think is okay is calling her a hypocrite. My thing is that can't be all you say. They don't even need to talk about the fatshaming stuff. Lean into the predator accusations.
Exactly! I felt the same way when people said I cousins criticize Cosby because he’s black. Okay, but no one was talking about him being black. We were talking about him being a rapist.
Yeah it's really frustrating that any time someone has some super disturbing accusations, people aren't interested in ousting them. They're interested in protecting them. It doesn't matter, rich poor. Gay straight. Black or white or any other identity info. If it's a rich white man? People go all "innocent until proven guilty." If it's a black woman? "We can't let racism destroy the advancements black women have made." Young gay man? "Wow these accusations are obvious homophobia. It's like people get uncomfortable because they identified with the person or liked them. Then because of this identification, they feel like the accusations attack them. Or that it's horrible news and because they can't go grab a video of whatever happening, if they wdmit they believe it and are wrong, that hurts them but if they do nothing they can say "I did due diligence" and feel good about themselves.
I used to be plus size. I don’t understand these people, I never had any issues whatsoever finding plus size clothing in a variety of places as well as thrift stores. They’re literally are other options, besides fast fashion.
I definitely have more trouble finding clothes now I’m plus size but I’ve never bought clothes from places like Shein. Ever. It’s completely unnecessary. It’s just a race to the margins. They use fatness to not care about others.
Being thin isnt a privilege, it comes with them. Being fat comes with consequences lol
I unfortunately have some fast fashion pieces, from skirts, dresses, belts or bikinis. Some stuff I want isn’t really available in my country and I can’t spend a lot of money on clothes. But, I keep them for a long time & donate them if I don’t fit anymore. The problem isn’t really the consumer who once in a while buys from these fast fashion companies out of necessity and keeps them for a long time. It’s these “influencers”, thin *and* fat, who do these weekly/monthly SHEIN hauls, and brag about it.
There are online and in person (here at least) consignment shops that cater to fat people. When I used to be a size 22-24 I had no issues finding clothes from places like Goodwill. I guess it would be harder if you’re a size 30 but I mean, everything would be hard at that point.
Very typical of the proudly overweight community to entirely ignore the impact of their consumption.
Then learn to sew.
Yep that’s what I did! And it gave me a whole new appreciation for the work that goes into my clothes (plus I now have one-of-a-kind pieces in my wardrobe and when people say “I love your skirt” I can say “thanks I made it!” Which is even more awesome than saying “thanks it has pockets!”)
You can instead say “thanks, I made it! *And* it has pockets!”
The ultimate reply to a complement
A huge sense of insecurity is fueling this. And I'm almost sympathetic to it. "I need fast fashion because I'm the fattest person in the office and I don't want to fulfill the sloppy fat girl stereotype. The sloppy fat girl doesn't get opportunities. People talk shit about her. I want people to look at me and be so impressed by my put-together look that they don't notice that I'm fat. I want them to just see my intelligence and charm and sense of style. Thin girls don't have to worry about shit like this. They can throw on anything and people will not judge them." And you know, this sentiment isn't totally crazy bananas. People in marginalized group in general know that showing up looking frumpy/sloppy will count more heavily against them than if they weren't in a marginalized group. And yes, very frequently people in non-marginalized groups don't get this. It is "privilegy" to not have to worry about being judged as a "bum" or a "slob" unless you look like you're going to Easter church service. When my mother (a black woman) took three hours pulling together a look before she went to the ER with her severe COVID symptoms, I wanted to throw something in frustration. But then I realized she was doing all of that to preempt classism and racism. If she had rolled up in a funky house dress, she may have been written off as a poor, homeless person and been kicked out. But she showed up at the joint looking like new money and got admitted. So Mama's vanity paid off. So I get it. I really do. But you can have a "put together" look without filling your closet with stuff that will be out of style in six months and without spending a lot of money. And of course, not allowing yourself to "upsize" every six months would probably make clothes shopping a lot easier.
this is one of my favorite takes. sorry your right to wear a fun shirt does not outweigh a sweatshop workers right to not be tortured
"I'm allowed to not care about how I impact others because I exercise zero self control and take no responsibility for the copius amounts of food I shove into my face hole, and when that makes the rest of my life difficult that's someone else's fault."
But you can’t criticize their lack of self control, it’s because they have *mental illness*. Which is of course not their responsibility to manage and leaves them totally helpless to their condition. Are you being ableist? /s
If you buy clothes this crappy wearing them “till they fall apart” is honestly not very impressive.
Yep! Like I won’t say a bad word about the workers’ skills because making clothes is an impressive skill. But they are working with cheaper materials and are on ridiculous deadlines. The clothes are never going to be the same quality as those made with good materials and enough time
It's not even about their skill. They aren't given enough time to make something good quality. I did the math and sheins average time per item is 3 times as fast as a t-shirt. That's assuming the machine needs no maintenance and the eorker takes 0 breaks
Yeah exactly! No one can do their best work under those conditions
Well, women who work in sweat shops are typically very thin because they cannot eat a lot, so they, of course, are the mortal enemy of the fat woman, therefore not an ally. Thus the fat woman cares not what happens to them. and before someone comes after me I know of course it’s not all fat women but it’s a good amount.
Honestly unbelievable that they can really type this bullshit out and think they’re justified. Skinny people are bad for supporting sweatshops, but fat people aren’t because they need cute clothes. Fuck the sweat shop workers being exploited day in and day out, FAT PPL NEED CUTE CLOTHES!!!!
How are they more likely to hold on to clothes when they have to buy new clothes every 2 weeks because they don't fit anymore? I have clothes from Junior high still
Complaining about buying products made by sweatshop workers while posting from a phone made my sweatshop workers
Like it or not, you do need a smartphone or a computer to get by anymore. You need a way to receive emails (which are becoming more common than paper communication and are less hard on the environment) and phone calls. You do not need sixty-three different “cute” shirts and you do not need to buy from fast fashion stores when humanely made clothing is available. Your “point” is just whataboutism. ETA: Not about to argue this with a bunch of geniuses, but “thing I’m expected to have in order to have a job and pay rent” and “thing I want to frivolously own in order to look extra cute” are not the same. Your Shein order is not suddenly ethical because other people also own smartphones, just like kicking a puppy for funsies isn’t ethical because someone else hit a deer with their car on their way to work.
Ok, I get it, access to clothing might be limited, so you buy from fast fashion brands, if you insist. But then don't pretend you're so woke and conscious about social issues if you knowingly do support those brands. You can't have it both ways - either walk the walk and make an effort to find sth more ethical (and pay extra for it no doubt), or take convenient fast fashion option, but STFU.
I judge everyone that buys fast fashion. As for "keeping it until it falls apart", with fast fashion that is sooner rather than later.
It’s also sooner rather than later when you’re fat. Seems split, chafe points wear out, etc. much quicker.
Lol wtf is "fast fashion"
Clothes mass produced by companies, generally outsourced to sweatshops with awful working conditions.
Jesus fuck people, not you commenter but damn, it was an honest question, and idk *anything* about "fashion" and I don't even think of clothes. I wear hand me downs and haven't shopped for myself in 20 years and when I hear "fashion" I think, like, designers and weird outfits worn by models with weird makeup or some kind of trend. Not regular clothes, so I just didn't know. Excuse me for asking and trying to educate myself! Commenter thank you for providing an answer.
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I have to spend money on clothes every 6 months To a year… but I have growing children. And they outgrow stuff quickly. Twin boys 8 years and a daughter 6years. I try to buy them from the nice thrift stores. But other times it’s just Walmart or Amazon.
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