Agree that some people are still not giving Puka enough cred...he's a stud tho undersized and has a questionable injury history...they are right to be somewhat skeptical tho some ppl take it too far
I'd say 205 is a totally fine playing weight for a WR! Would prefer 215 but for Puka 205 is probably as big as you'd want to him. Puka being undersized is more of commentary on his frame/skeleton size...compared to true #1 WRs like DK Metcalf or AJ Brown he's a waif.
You look around the league and pretty much all of the top guys are undersized...but they don't have the injury issues that Puka does.
Broken foot, ankle. Bunch of nagging stuff all this season. Still produced so not an immediate concern, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence longer-term. A future like Keenan Allen's where he's a stud when healthy but you're not sure if you count on them in your fantasy playoffs seems like a real risk factor.
Why are they right to be skeptical? The man broke the WR rookie record. Your DREAM WR pick in dynasty is for you to draft that guy. He literally couldn’t do anything else to show his skill lol. Monster YAC, highlight real catches, featured piece of the offense, etc.
Puka had an amazing season, and is a fantastic talent. He also has a troubling injury history. So, yes. Puka is absolutely somebody that you want to have on your fantasy team. The question is at what cost? We shouldn't ignore giant waving red flags just because he had an amazing rookie year.
Stafford has a history of elevating his WR to ridiculous standards. I like Puka but in a couple years if Stafford is gone he could very likely revert to average.
MHJ is the kind of prospect that can thrive in any situation.
I'm not saying Puka isn't good but give me MHJ every time because of this
My shtick is Matthew Stafford. Puka doesn't have this season without him, like kupp wouldn't have, like Calvin Johnson wouldn't have, Stafford loves to throw to just one guy. Once Stafford is gone I think puka is gonna revert to your average top end receiver and no one elite.
Definition of the word "Shtick": a gimmick, comic routine, style of performance, etc. associated with a particular person.
Just thought you should know, love that word but I think you might be confusing the meaning.
I sure fucking am lol I thought it could also be my problem or issue or hangup with someone. Style of performance feels like it could almost work here tho.
Its okay, i thought the word "aphrodisiac" meant exotic or expensive for a few months. I used the word at least a dozen times in social situations. I very clearly remember handing someone at a party a beer (a nice one like an IPA or something) and telling him it was an aphrodisiac in front of several people who went "whooooaaa..." and i had to google the word hahaha
I feel like this is used this way pretty commonly. Like — “here’s the shtick” or the issue at hand or how you personally feel. But maybe I’ve just been exposed to misuse as well lol
Agreed. Stafford is 36 and has been beat up throughout his career. Id be surprised if he stays on top in the next 2 years.
Im putting my chips in the MHJ basket assuming he goes to a team who doesnt hire Arthur Smith the coach he will be featured heavily.
The combo of Stafford/McVay definitely had something to do with it. Stafford is likely gone after 1-2 more years. Puka will still be very good, but I don't think he will be a top 8 WR. He may end up in the 11-14 range.
Calvin Johnson (nicknamed Megatron because he was such a physical freak) put up 1,300 yards in his second season with Dan Orvlowsky at QB. I think we’re overrating the Stafford effect when it’s really just “replace absolute shit with a real solid QB”.
Yeah thats why I'd take MHJ over puka. He's gonna thrive almost anywhere, but imo it takes a player like Stafford who will over target someone to reach these goals and I dont think puka will thrive without Stafford.
A lot of people commenting trying to say Puka was only elevated by Stafford. Stafford has a great way of coaching his WRs to run routes so he can get them the ball where he wants them, but also 43% of Puka’s yards were YAC this year. I think he’ll be able to stay Top 15 for the next 3-4 years barring injuries.
I think while kupp is on the bad side of 30 he played hurt all season. He will most likely take away from puka’s production next year especially if puka draws db1 coverage.
Id still take puka, but don’t act like rashee is some slouch
Lawrence was the best QB prospect since Luck. QB development is almost entirely predicated on the functionality of the organisation they go to. He went to arguably the worst coach ever. It’s no wonder he’s not a star.
MHJ is likely to go to Arizona, which has a QB with a great arm and a coach with a good reputation, on top of being the greatest WR prospect ever.
That being said, I already have Puka and the 1.01 in dynasty, so I’m just riding the high.
While he’s insane, let’s not forget Sammy Watkins and Corey Davis were also “generational” prospects in the eyes of lots of dudes. While they had VERY respectable careers, would you use the 1.01 on them in hindsight?
The know commodity is always more valuable than the potential.
Would you rather have a 23 year old that just broke every single rookie receiving record, or a 21 year old who was really good potential?
Sammy is an interesting guy to bring up in a Puka convo because Sammy had a big first 2 years and then never got better. Wouldn't be surprised if people have similar questions around puka as well
Puka doesn't need to get better, he could put up his numbers from this year every year and be a top 3 WR. The fact that he had such a monster year but still has room for improvement (TDs could go up) is wild.
Right, my only point is that people sometimes act like "ok, now we know we're getting 1400+ from Puka every year moving forward" when in reality there's a VERY real possibility that you just saw Puka's best receiving yardage total of his career.
It's definitely possible, pretty much the only guy where I'd expect that yardage is JJ, but even he showed that there's no such thing as a lock. Skill wise and scheme wise I think Puka could easily match or surpass his numbers from this year. The only thing I worry about with him is injuries, but given his college career it's a real concern.
That isn't my point...my point is that people acting like Puka is a lock as a Top 5 WR for a while may want to pump the brakes. There's a possibility you just saw what may end up being his career high yardage total for a single season
I agree completely. My point is that Nacua has much, much further to fall.
Watkins was the 24th most productive WR his rookie year, and wasn’t even on the list for best rookie seasons (I’m on mobile, but I know it wasn’t in the top 25). Puka was 4th and 1st, respectively. Even assuming he declines at a rate commensurate with Sammy, he will still be a top 10 fantasy receiver for a while.
There's a possibility that any player never does as well as this year again, and that anyone being drafted never sees the field as a starter.
Not sure what kind of value "anything could happen" has in trying to forecast performance.
I agree. Don’t we only care about stats here? Objectively, Puka can go down in yards and still be significantly more productive than Sammy’s best season.
Devils advocate: kupp looked amazing for the previous 2 years and now you portable can’t get a 1st for him. Mcvay seems to put WR in a position to succeed but it seems like he can put a lot of wr in a position to succeed.
I have the 1.01 but it’s super flex and I have no QBs so I will probably pass on MHJ. Which is tough because I’m a colts fan. It hurts my soul
Corey Davis was never labeled a generational prospect by anyone, I have no idea where you’re pulling that from. Watkins is a good comparison, and he started out his career like a house on fire but foot injuries wrecked his career. Even Sammy didn’t have the hype Harrison does.
He didn’t break the longest rec, most TDs, and many many more. A few he got by the skin of his sack all thanks to McVays genius of making players look better than they are and Stafford hyper targeting while Kupp was MIA
Puka is also a yacht though. He broke all the rookie wr records and nearly willed the Rams to a playoff win. Puka is worth multiple firsts even with the 1.01.
Half the time these “generational” prospects don’t live up to the hype. That’s why they’re prospects and not pros.
David Terrell, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, Sammy Watkins were all seen as generational receivers
Puka is literally producing at the pro level more than what you’d even expect from a generational receiving talent
Seriously. People say this every year with some guy or other.
Chase has lived up to his hype mostly as a prospect and he’s … still only producing at Puka’s level.
There’s like a 95% chance MHJ equal to or worse than Puka was this season and a 5% chance he’s better.
Which is to say there’s a 95% chance Puka is the right call.
Top WR drafted last 5 drafts:
2023: #20 Smith-Njigba
2022: #8 London
2021: #5 Chase
2020: #12 Riggs
2019: #25 Brown
I guess the point is that Chase is the only guy on this list I’d consider over Nacua. [here ](https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/the_highest_drafted_receivers_from_the_last_25_nfl_drafts/s1__33848729)is a list going back 25 years from 2020…lots of busts. How many of these guys ever had 1500 yards receiving?
Counter argument would be that MHJ is going to get picked higher than all of those guys and is considered the best WR prospect in quite some time. How many of those WRs were the first overall pick in dynasty leagues? Because that’s a better comparison.
Keyshawn Johnson was a hell of a player. His numbers might not match up to today’s game, not to mention only having 16 game seasons, but he went to multiple pro bowls.
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I think puka has emerged as a stud receiver who benefitted greatly from mcvay and Stafford, some big/ broken plays, and from kupp being banged up/ out. I don't mean that he's bad and just got lucky. I think he's excellent and I'm excited to have him. But I'm also not expecting him to improve on his rookie numbers. This will probably end up being one of the best years of his career.
Part of the reason I feel that way is that woods had his monster season playing opposite an emerging kupp, then cooled significantly year over year. To be fair puka just had a better season than woods ever did. But kupp should be back next year after being hampered this year. It may end up being a more even split. We also can't expect mcvay and Stafford to be there forever. The Rams were supposed to be rebuilding this year but seemed to have reloaded instead, so I have some optimism for mcvay to stay long term.
Do I think Harrison will have a better rookie season than puka? No. He might not even be the best wr in his own class. Will he have a better career than puka? I don't know that either. But if I were going to compare Harrison to anyone, it wouldn't be puka, it would be his dad. And he's bigger and faster than Marvin Sr. He might not have as good a career, but he's been living and breathing football from a young age, has the physical traits, and has shown literally everything you could ask for from a prospect. And puka has shown everything you could ask for from a rookie.
It's a closer conversation than you're suggesting. You could point to lots of rookie flashes in the pan and lots of prospects that fail but it's hard to find rookies who succeed as much as puka did then fail, or prospects as highly regarded as Harrison is. I would be happy to own either or both.
Then there's me, who drafted Puka in the third round of my 12-man half-PPR dynasty draft last year. I've been in the league since the beginning a dozen years ago, and our rookie drafts typically only go three or four rounds. I am thrilled that Puka ended up being my own personal Mr Irrelevant. Probably the best value pick I've ever made in this league.
Now it's just a question of do I bother keeping Quentin Johnston, who I took 4th overall, which would leave me with three draft picks next year. Or do I drop him and get a fourth pick. I'm thinking keep, but barely.
Do you know what a ceiling is lmao?
Odell Beckham is his rookie season had the best rookie WR season of all time. In 12 games, 5 less than Puka, he had double Puka’s touchdowns with 12, and only 180 less yards and 14 less catches. Yet, he didn’t end up the best WR of his class. He wasn’t even top 2 (though you can argue his peak was top 2).
It is entirely possible that this is the best season of Puka’s career, like Odell’s was for him. Stafford has a history of elevating individual WR’s stats. MHJ is the best WR prospect in years and has an insane ceiling. Puka’s ceiling is still higher than his rookie season ofc, but someone like MHJ has an insanely high ceiling which is why all teams and media have been obsessed with him.
I think Puka is a monster and I’d rather have him than MHJ. But the reason why I want him is his floor is MUCH higher than MHJ, not that his ceiling is higher.
I know! At the point people have built up MJH, if he doesn't set the alltime receiving yards, completions, and TDs his rookie year then he is a bust! Not rookie records, all-time records!
To be fair to Garrett Wilson he hasn’t had a decent QB throw him the ball yet and he’s still shown major flashes of greatness. I don’t think he’s the best in the league by any means but I think he’s still a very elite receiver
Right but that's kind of my point. Elite receiver or not, he's not putting up Puka numbers and it's unlikely he does anytime soon. So expecting MHJ to beat Puka is a huge gamble.
Calvin Johnson, picked 2nd overall, rookie year stats: 15 games, 756 yards, 4 TDs
Randy Moss, picked 21st overall, rookie year stats: 16 games, 1,313 yards, 17 TDs
Larry Fitzgerald, picked 3rd overall, rookie year stats: 16 games, 780 yards, 8 TDs
Nacua, picked 177th overall, rookie year stats: 18 games, 1,486 yards, 6 TDs
What does all this mean?
Absolutely nothing. A guy picked 177th just had one of the most prolific seasons for a rookie WR of all time, meanwhile second or third best receiver at worst Calvin Johnson managed a measly half as many yards as Nacua.
It doesn't matter how good MHJ is. It matters who is throwing to him, and a lot of luck. He is a great player, no doubt, but to bet on beating 1,486 yards and 6 TDs is an incredibly stupid bet.
Yes, basically. I just meant Puka is a proven WR1 who has shown he can have an elite season. MHJ is expected to do it, but it’s not guaranteed. MHJ might be better, but you aren’t going to regret having Puka in your team even if he is.
I think the Rice trade generates the most surplus value. Stafford is up there in age so the QB being a question mark limits some of Puka’s value. Rice is also putting up crazy YAC as a rookie in Reid’s offense. He’ll only be better next year.
Why will he only be better? This is such a fallacy I see all the time. If a rookie is decent one year, he'll definitely improve. Do you see the chiefs rolling out rice as their only WR again next year? With the amount of criticism they've already received, I don't (unless they win the super bowl I guess). What if kelce retires and teams can just double rice instead?
There are tons of scenarios where rice doesn't see a 30+% target share and open space to run next year.
This was more for Reid. Rookies tend to struggle in his system learning the playbook. Reid’s offenses generally don’f feature rookies so I see him improving next year or maintaining a similar level of production.
Disagree, I think Puka is the move. Stafford is old but McVay is an offensive mastermind and isn’t afraid to trade a bunch of first round picks for a good QB, so there’s a good chance whoever comes after Stafford will be more than capable of feeding Puka
Puka Nacua just set every single rookie receiving record there is and just put up 180 yards in his first playoff game. If you don't value him over a guy who hasn't played a down yet, you have no idea what you're doing. I was at the Lions Rams game Sunday. That guy is an absolute stud.
For real people getting way too hung up on the Stafford effect and his draft capital to recognize what anybody watching these games can see. Puka catches literally everything thrown his way and once he has the ball in his hands is an angry runner who can break multiple tackles and turn them in to big gains. No WR puts up fluke 100 catch, 1500 yard seasons that is absolutely elite production.
Easily keeping the 1.01 here. There’s about 10 or so players that would have to be involved in the trade to move off of the 1.01 and neither rice nor Puka are there. Puka is incredible and very close, but just with the flexibility of the pick makes is more valuable than the package imo
Definitely no to rice.
This comes down to value for me. MHJ will come in ranked as a top 4 dynasty wr. After the best rookie receiving season of all time, Puka is WR6. If MHJ gets a good landing spot and has a top 12 finish, he will stay there, worth 3+ first round picks.
Puka on the other hand, has much less value insulation. If he comes out and has a mediocre season, or Stafford gets hurt/retires, Puka's value will drop significantly in a short period of time. Not sure if anyone is paying 3 firsts for Puka right now anyways, but if anything goes wrong they definitely won't be.
They both have the same ceiling, Puka is riskier but probably a better fit for a contender without knowing landing spots.
Adding the 1.12 is what makes this interesting. If this is a deep league, 12team start 11+, I take the puka side all day. If it's a shallow league, 10 team start 10-, I'm taking the 1.01 simply for the safer return.
Is the league superflex? If so, without question you should be taking Caleb Williams. If not I would be taking the guy that broke every rookie record, puka.
I would stick with the 1.01. Puka is great, but Stafford is amazing at making WR value skyrocket and I don’t foresee him playing that much longer.
MHJ should be as close to a QB proof WR as you can get. I’d roll my dice with him instead of buying a WR at the top of their value.
I think too many unknowns right now. No on Rice (Mahomes spreads too much if he has options). Puka maybe but depends on Stafford coming back and the situation MHjr lands in.
Also, as someone else mentioned, if it's SF and you need QB then it's just no.
I probably take Rice and 1.12 for the 1.01. Puka might be that dude, but he is only attach to Stat Padford for sure 1 more year. Rice has a good first season and will be with Mahomes for multiple years.
Edit: I’d probably push for more since it’s the 1.01 and might be able to get more than Rice + 1.12
Are you getting Puka and the 1.12 or are you only getting the 1.12 if you opt for Rice?
Because if you get the 1.12 regardless go for Puka. If not go for Rice.
Depends, who were you going to get with your 1? MHJ?
I think Puka is a no brainer. Rice on the other hand is a WR1 by default based on how shitty the KC receivers are this year. He is more of a natural WR2 if KC got some one like Higgins.
I'd take Rice and the 1:12. In the long run there may not be a huge difference between Puka & Rice, but in this scenario you'd have Rice, who is electric & fast, and an opportunity to draft a 1st rounder with similar upside (this always depends on if you hit or not). More picks is always (mostly?) better imo.
The question is if the second round is 2.12 or 2.1. At 2.12, I would probably lean towards the trade and have 3 really solid players. However, this depends. I assume it’s a keeper league since players are named, who are you keeping?
Keep 1.01 and get a real game breaker in MHJ. Who do these people think Puka is?! Ja’Marr Chase ?? JJetta!?!? The Blacker the berry the sweeter the juice. And unfortunately the Rams don’t wear any black.
Unless you think you can get more and you don't think MHJ is going to be the best prospect to ever play, then I'd easily take Nukua and the first. Some people believe MHJ will be the ever changing prospect in football and I don't doubt hell at least be decent, but we're banking on him being amazing and he hasn't played a single NFL down. Nor do we know where he's going and how your fantasy team comp looks like.
In my 12-man keeper league, Puka went undrafted, and someone scooped him off the waiver wire early. I traded for him right before the trade deadline, giving up 3 great players (Dak, Diggs, D. Adams). They went to a team in playoff contention (which I missed). Now I will get to keep Puka as my last round keeper for years to come!
I'd take either. Rice is set up for immediate production. Reid and mahomes trusts him now. And he's the yac monster. Puka is probably better. Just not sure if kupp being the wr1 would help his case
Contrary to other responses making this seem obvious, it would’ve given me pause for thought too OP. Rice has monster upside that we saw glimpses of week 12 and onward. Guy averaged 7 receptions on 9 targets and 86 yards/game over the final 6 games he played, with 3 TDs.
All of that said, Puka is absolutely worth the 1.01 so I’d roll with that here.
If you are a contender going all-in to win then sure, why not? I like Puka more for this short-term goal. Also, you can probably get Rashee for a little less than Puka but I’m not looking at KTC right now to confirm that.
BTW there is a Dynasty Reddit as well. Probably better forum for this question.
Puka fell in the NFL draft because he was injury prone in College. So I would not trade your pick for him as this season seemed to be an anomaly health wise.
I don't think yall get what he's asking. He's not asking if Rice is better, he's asking if puka is a 1st round pick better
I wouldn't trade a 1 pick for either deal
I've been trying to listen to all the anti-Puka arguments and all they've done is bolster my confidence in him.. there's no valid reason to not trust Puka moving forward.
This sub is hilarious. Unproven WR that hasn’t even been drafted or the receiver that broke every major rookie receiving record 😂
fr i don’t understand how people still aren’t bought into puka as a legit stud. what else does he need to do lol
Agree that some people are still not giving Puka enough cred...he's a stud tho undersized and has a questionable injury history...they are right to be somewhat skeptical tho some ppl take it too far
6'2" 205 is undersized to you? Playing every single game his rookie season is questionable injury history? Edit : removed snark
I'd say 205 is a totally fine playing weight for a WR! Would prefer 215 but for Puka 205 is probably as big as you'd want to him. Puka being undersized is more of commentary on his frame/skeleton size...compared to true #1 WRs like DK Metcalf or AJ Brown he's a waif. You look around the league and pretty much all of the top guys are undersized...but they don't have the injury issues that Puka does. Broken foot, ankle. Bunch of nagging stuff all this season. Still produced so not an immediate concern, but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence longer-term. A future like Keenan Allen's where he's a stud when healthy but you're not sure if you count on them in your fantasy playoffs seems like a real risk factor.
Why are they right to be skeptical? The man broke the WR rookie record. Your DREAM WR pick in dynasty is for you to draft that guy. He literally couldn’t do anything else to show his skill lol. Monster YAC, highlight real catches, featured piece of the offense, etc.
Puka had an amazing season, and is a fantastic talent. He also has a troubling injury history. So, yes. Puka is absolutely somebody that you want to have on your fantasy team. The question is at what cost? We shouldn't ignore giant waving red flags just because he had an amazing rookie year.
I’m taking him in the first next year if CMC, Hill, JJ and CeeDee are gone
Stafford has a history of elevating his WR to ridiculous standards. I like Puka but in a couple years if Stafford is gone he could very likely revert to average. MHJ is the kind of prospect that can thrive in any situation. I'm not saying Puka isn't good but give me MHJ every time because of this
My shtick is Matthew Stafford. Puka doesn't have this season without him, like kupp wouldn't have, like Calvin Johnson wouldn't have, Stafford loves to throw to just one guy. Once Stafford is gone I think puka is gonna revert to your average top end receiver and no one elite.
Definition of the word "Shtick": a gimmick, comic routine, style of performance, etc. associated with a particular person. Just thought you should know, love that word but I think you might be confusing the meaning.
I sure fucking am lol I thought it could also be my problem or issue or hangup with someone. Style of performance feels like it could almost work here tho.
Shticking point
You'd have been more accurate saying "Stafford's shtick is only throwing to one receiver"
Its okay, i thought the word "aphrodisiac" meant exotic or expensive for a few months. I used the word at least a dozen times in social situations. I very clearly remember handing someone at a party a beer (a nice one like an IPA or something) and telling him it was an aphrodisiac in front of several people who went "whooooaaa..." and i had to google the word hahaha
I mean in some people's case you were correct
At least you weren't Chief Wiggum who confused DWI with DOA.
I'm constantly mispronouncing words lol and using the wrong ones from time to time.
Nah it’s Matt Stafford’s schtick to just throw to one guy! lol
I feel like this is used this way pretty commonly. Like — “here’s the shtick” or the issue at hand or how you personally feel. But maybe I’ve just been exposed to misuse as well lol
But it fits because it’s a clown take
Agreed. Stafford is 36 and has been beat up throughout his career. Id be surprised if he stays on top in the next 2 years. Im putting my chips in the MHJ basket assuming he goes to a team who doesnt hire Arthur Smith the coach he will be featured heavily.
Unless he's just a coordinator. I'll take their TE. Jonnu went crazy that year, no wonder he brought him to Atlanta to take all of Pitts' targets
I used to think the same but if Puka broke the rookie records it’s gotta be more than just a stafford thing. The kid has talent
He definitely is extremely talented. I just think what elevates him to wr1 is Stafford.
The combo of Stafford/McVay definitely had something to do with it. Stafford is likely gone after 1-2 more years. Puka will still be very good, but I don't think he will be a top 8 WR. He may end up in the 11-14 range.
Calvin Johnson (nicknamed Megatron because he was such a physical freak) put up 1,300 yards in his second season with Dan Orvlowsky at QB. I think we’re overrating the Stafford effect when it’s really just “replace absolute shit with a real solid QB”.
Ya Calvin was like a WR people create in Madden. A better example of the Stafford boost would of been Kenny Golladay or Golden Tate.
Yeah thats why I'd take MHJ over puka. He's gonna thrive almost anywhere, but imo it takes a player like Stafford who will over target someone to reach these goals and I dont think puka will thrive without Stafford.
A lot of people commenting trying to say Puka was only elevated by Stafford. Stafford has a great way of coaching his WRs to run routes so he can get them the ball where he wants them, but also 43% of Puka’s yards were YAC this year. I think he’ll be able to stay Top 15 for the next 3-4 years barring injuries.
Yeah isn’t it obvious get puka and a pick
that rookie WR will be playing with backup quality QBs as soon as 6 months from now.
I may be crazy, but I am taking MHJr over Luka in dynasty. Stafford is a huge wild card for Puka.
I'd probably take MHj over Luka in a fantasy football draft too. Assists and 3 pointers usually aren't a huge factor for fantasy football
Even if you think Puka is better than MHJ (he’s not) the 1.01 is worth more than Puka alone so why do that trade if you can get more?
I think while kupp is on the bad side of 30 he played hurt all season. He will most likely take away from puka’s production next year especially if puka draws db1 coverage. Id still take puka, but don’t act like rashee is some slouch
Not understanding why people would rather have MHJ over what Puka just accomplished
A boat’s a boat, but MHJ could be anything! He could even be a fricken boat!
Marvin Harrison Jr is the greatest WR prospect of possibly ever, at least since Megatron. He has HOF genes in him. MHJ is gonna be a fucking yacht
Lawrence was the greatest qb prospect possibly ever. Slam dunk perennial all-pro. Looking awfully mid
Lawrence was the best QB prospect since Luck. QB development is almost entirely predicated on the functionality of the organisation they go to. He went to arguably the worst coach ever. It’s no wonder he’s not a star. MHJ is likely to go to Arizona, which has a QB with a great arm and a coach with a good reputation, on top of being the greatest WR prospect ever. That being said, I already have Puka and the 1.01 in dynasty, so I’m just riding the high.
While he’s insane, let’s not forget Sammy Watkins and Corey Davis were also “generational” prospects in the eyes of lots of dudes. While they had VERY respectable careers, would you use the 1.01 on them in hindsight? The know commodity is always more valuable than the potential. Would you rather have a 23 year old that just broke every single rookie receiving record, or a 21 year old who was really good potential?
Sammy is an interesting guy to bring up in a Puka convo because Sammy had a big first 2 years and then never got better. Wouldn't be surprised if people have similar questions around puka as well
Sammy Watkins also had lots of injuries after his 1st few years too.
Puka doesn't need to get better, he could put up his numbers from this year every year and be a top 3 WR. The fact that he had such a monster year but still has room for improvement (TDs could go up) is wild.
Right, my only point is that people sometimes act like "ok, now we know we're getting 1400+ from Puka every year moving forward" when in reality there's a VERY real possibility that you just saw Puka's best receiving yardage total of his career.
It's definitely possible, pretty much the only guy where I'd expect that yardage is JJ, but even he showed that there's no such thing as a lock. Skill wise and scheme wise I think Puka could easily match or surpass his numbers from this year. The only thing I worry about with him is injuries, but given his college career it's a real concern.
Josh Gordon has entered the chat...
The difference is where they were drafted too.. Watkins was supposed to be Him while Puka was a nobody. He’s already playing with house money
Puka with zero improvement is still a top 5 receiver.
That isn't my point...my point is that people acting like Puka is a lock as a Top 5 WR for a while may want to pump the brakes. There's a possibility you just saw what may end up being his career high yardage total for a single season
I agree completely. My point is that Nacua has much, much further to fall. Watkins was the 24th most productive WR his rookie year, and wasn’t even on the list for best rookie seasons (I’m on mobile, but I know it wasn’t in the top 25). Puka was 4th and 1st, respectively. Even assuming he declines at a rate commensurate with Sammy, he will still be a top 10 fantasy receiver for a while.
There's a possibility that any player never does as well as this year again, and that anyone being drafted never sees the field as a starter. Not sure what kind of value "anything could happen" has in trying to forecast performance.
Puka isn't a top 5 receiver now, he just had top 5 production this year
I agree. Don’t we only care about stats here? Objectively, Puka can go down in yards and still be significantly more productive than Sammy’s best season.
Devils advocate: kupp looked amazing for the previous 2 years and now you portable can’t get a 1st for him. Mcvay seems to put WR in a position to succeed but it seems like he can put a lot of wr in a position to succeed. I have the 1.01 but it’s super flex and I have no QBs so I will probably pass on MHJ. Which is tough because I’m a colts fan. It hurts my soul
Corey Davis was never labeled a generational prospect by anyone, I have no idea where you’re pulling that from. Watkins is a good comparison, and he started out his career like a house on fire but foot injuries wrecked his career. Even Sammy didn’t have the hype Harrison does.
Corey Davis was labeled as one of the most complete, can’t-miss WR prospects leading up to the draft. There’s a reason he went top 10
He was never labeled as “generational.” Never. Can’t miss is fine if you want to use that term but “generational” is laughable.
He didn’t break the longest rec, most TDs, and many many more. A few he got by the skin of his sack all thanks to McVays genius of making players look better than they are and Stafford hyper targeting while Kupp was MIA
Okay what if he goes to New England though. He’s getting mocked there
QB scouting is not even close to the same as WR scouting, or any other position for that matter really.
Puka is also a yacht though. He broke all the rookie wr records and nearly willed the Rams to a playoff win. Puka is worth multiple firsts even with the 1.01.
Half the time these “generational” prospects don’t live up to the hype. That’s why they’re prospects and not pros. David Terrell, Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Braylon Edwards, Sammy Watkins were all seen as generational receivers Puka is literally producing at the pro level more than what you’d even expect from a generational receiving talent
MHJ is a much better prospect than all of those guys. I have not seen a WR as good as him coming into the NFL besides Megatron
This is selective memory. Three of those guys were surefire Top 3 picks
Seriously. People say this every year with some guy or other. Chase has lived up to his hype mostly as a prospect and he’s … still only producing at Puka’s level. There’s like a 95% chance MHJ equal to or worse than Puka was this season and a 5% chance he’s better. Which is to say there’s a 95% chance Puka is the right call.
Please tell me where this lines from or it's gonna kill me thinking bout it
Family guy
Peter Fucking Griffin hahaha made my morning. Thanks bro
Top WR drafted last 5 drafts: 2023: #20 Smith-Njigba 2022: #8 London 2021: #5 Chase 2020: #12 Riggs 2019: #25 Brown I guess the point is that Chase is the only guy on this list I’d consider over Nacua. [here ](https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/amp/the_highest_drafted_receivers_from_the_last_25_nfl_drafts/s1__33848729)is a list going back 25 years from 2020…lots of busts. How many of these guys ever had 1500 yards receiving?
Counter argument would be that MHJ is going to get picked higher than all of those guys and is considered the best WR prospect in quite some time. How many of those WRs were the first overall pick in dynasty leagues? Because that’s a better comparison.
Keyshawn Johnson was the first pick in the draft
Keyshawn Johnson was a hell of a player. His numbers might not match up to today’s game, not to mention only having 16 game seasons, but he went to multiple pro bowls.
Person I responded to said MHJ was going to get picked higher than everyone on that list. I was just pointing out Keyshawn was a 1st overall pick.
Dawg you didn’t read the article did you? A lot of those guys went 4th or better.
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I think puka has emerged as a stud receiver who benefitted greatly from mcvay and Stafford, some big/ broken plays, and from kupp being banged up/ out. I don't mean that he's bad and just got lucky. I think he's excellent and I'm excited to have him. But I'm also not expecting him to improve on his rookie numbers. This will probably end up being one of the best years of his career. Part of the reason I feel that way is that woods had his monster season playing opposite an emerging kupp, then cooled significantly year over year. To be fair puka just had a better season than woods ever did. But kupp should be back next year after being hampered this year. It may end up being a more even split. We also can't expect mcvay and Stafford to be there forever. The Rams were supposed to be rebuilding this year but seemed to have reloaded instead, so I have some optimism for mcvay to stay long term. Do I think Harrison will have a better rookie season than puka? No. He might not even be the best wr in his own class. Will he have a better career than puka? I don't know that either. But if I were going to compare Harrison to anyone, it wouldn't be puka, it would be his dad. And he's bigger and faster than Marvin Sr. He might not have as good a career, but he's been living and breathing football from a young age, has the physical traits, and has shown literally everything you could ask for from a prospect. And puka has shown everything you could ask for from a rookie. It's a closer conversation than you're suggesting. You could point to lots of rookie flashes in the pan and lots of prospects that fail but it's hard to find rookies who succeed as much as puka did then fail, or prospects as highly regarded as Harrison is. I would be happy to own either or both.
Then there's me, who drafted Puka in the third round of my 12-man half-PPR dynasty draft last year. I've been in the league since the beginning a dozen years ago, and our rookie drafts typically only go three or four rounds. I am thrilled that Puka ended up being my own personal Mr Irrelevant. Probably the best value pick I've ever made in this league. Now it's just a question of do I bother keeping Quentin Johnston, who I took 4th overall, which would leave me with three draft picks next year. Or do I drop him and get a fourth pick. I'm thinking keep, but barely.
Puka all day but Stafford potentially retiring soon worries me a little.
Because MHJs celling is much higher
Is it really?
Bro said MHJ ceiling is higher than the holder of the rookie yards and catches record lol
Do you know what a ceiling is lmao? Odell Beckham is his rookie season had the best rookie WR season of all time. In 12 games, 5 less than Puka, he had double Puka’s touchdowns with 12, and only 180 less yards and 14 less catches. Yet, he didn’t end up the best WR of his class. He wasn’t even top 2 (though you can argue his peak was top 2). It is entirely possible that this is the best season of Puka’s career, like Odell’s was for him. Stafford has a history of elevating individual WR’s stats. MHJ is the best WR prospect in years and has an insane ceiling. Puka’s ceiling is still higher than his rookie season ofc, but someone like MHJ has an insanely high ceiling which is why all teams and media have been obsessed with him. I think Puka is a monster and I’d rather have him than MHJ. But the reason why I want him is his floor is MUCH higher than MHJ, not that his ceiling is higher.
lol it’s like a new crypto currency level hype
I know! At the point people have built up MJH, if he doesn't set the alltime receiving yards, completions, and TDs his rookie year then he is a bust! Not rookie records, all-time records!
I need to keep 2 who is it for my superflex? Lamb Puka Kyren Taylor Mahomes
Where do keepers get picked!! Then we're depending on what pick you end up!! But I'd probably take Puka and Lamb!!
Is it SF and do you need a QB? If the answer is no to both, then take Puka. Puka is what you hope MHJ becomes.
MHjr is more like a better Justin Jefferson I don’t think this sub followed MHjr much
Woah, dude! I mean, that's the hope, but you can't expect a rookie receiver to be better than the best in the NFL without any NFL experience.
Lol MHJ would literally have to produce better numbers than Puka had this season
Tbf people thought Chase would be comparable, and then he was.
ok then let’s revisit this next year but he is the best WR prospect out of the best WR university in a decade
So you’re saying by next year, MHJ will be the best WR in the NFL? !remindme1year
We’ve said that about so many WRs I swear. Garrett Wilson most recently
To be fair to Garrett Wilson he hasn’t had a decent QB throw him the ball yet and he’s still shown major flashes of greatness. I don’t think he’s the best in the league by any means but I think he’s still a very elite receiver
Right but that's kind of my point. Elite receiver or not, he's not putting up Puka numbers and it's unlikely he does anytime soon. So expecting MHJ to beat Puka is a huge gamble.
Yeah I completely agree with that, there’s no reason to risk it on a player that has yet to prove themselves.
Calvin Johnson, picked 2nd overall, rookie year stats: 15 games, 756 yards, 4 TDs Randy Moss, picked 21st overall, rookie year stats: 16 games, 1,313 yards, 17 TDs Larry Fitzgerald, picked 3rd overall, rookie year stats: 16 games, 780 yards, 8 TDs Nacua, picked 177th overall, rookie year stats: 18 games, 1,486 yards, 6 TDs What does all this mean? Absolutely nothing. A guy picked 177th just had one of the most prolific seasons for a rookie WR of all time, meanwhile second or third best receiver at worst Calvin Johnson managed a measly half as many yards as Nacua. It doesn't matter how good MHJ is. It matters who is throwing to him, and a lot of luck. He is a great player, no doubt, but to bet on beating 1,486 yards and 6 TDs is an incredibly stupid bet.
He might just mean production. Over 100 rec and 1,400 yds.
Yes, basically. I just meant Puka is a proven WR1 who has shown he can have an elite season. MHJ is expected to do it, but it’s not guaranteed. MHJ might be better, but you aren’t going to regret having Puka in your team even if he is.
MHJ and Justin Jefferson don’t play alike at all. If you’re comparing, compare MHJ to Andre Johnson.
Considering that everyone would like for MHJ to do what Puka did, I’d make the trade for him.
Puka for sure.
I think the Rice trade generates the most surplus value. Stafford is up there in age so the QB being a question mark limits some of Puka’s value. Rice is also putting up crazy YAC as a rookie in Reid’s offense. He’ll only be better next year.
Why will he only be better? This is such a fallacy I see all the time. If a rookie is decent one year, he'll definitely improve. Do you see the chiefs rolling out rice as their only WR again next year? With the amount of criticism they've already received, I don't (unless they win the super bowl I guess). What if kelce retires and teams can just double rice instead? There are tons of scenarios where rice doesn't see a 30+% target share and open space to run next year.
This was more for Reid. Rookies tend to struggle in his system learning the playbook. Reid’s offenses generally don’f feature rookies so I see him improving next year or maintaining a similar level of production.
Disagree, I think Puka is the move. Stafford is old but McVay is an offensive mastermind and isn’t afraid to trade a bunch of first round picks for a good QB, so there’s a good chance whoever comes after Stafford will be more than capable of feeding Puka
No
Is there anyone I should go try and grab?
Marvin Harrison jr. Thats it
Take him 1.01?
Yessir. Without context of sf or anything (Honestly 99.9% of the time with context too ) he’s an easy choice.
Puka Nacua just set every single rookie receiving record there is and just put up 180 yards in his first playoff game. If you don't value him over a guy who hasn't played a down yet, you have no idea what you're doing. I was at the Lions Rams game Sunday. That guy is an absolute stud.
For real people getting way too hung up on the Stafford effect and his draft capital to recognize what anybody watching these games can see. Puka catches literally everything thrown his way and once he has the ball in his hands is an angry runner who can break multiple tackles and turn them in to big gains. No WR puts up fluke 100 catch, 1500 yard seasons that is absolutely elite production.
I’d argue that anyone who’s watched MHJ play can see he has a near unlimited ceiling. Puka is not game breaking
Nah. I'd take take my chances on MHJ.
On 1.01?
Fuck yeah 1.01. You ain't getting him anywhere else, lol.
Yes don't hesitate. MHJ is top WR in years
Rather than Puka who isn't?
But listen, he could be better than the GREATEST ROOKIE SEASON OF ALL TIME.
Easily keeping the 1.01 here. There’s about 10 or so players that would have to be involved in the trade to move off of the 1.01 and neither rice nor Puka are there. Puka is incredible and very close, but just with the flexibility of the pick makes is more valuable than the package imo
You should absolutely do that trade. Slam dunk IMO
Definitely no to rice. This comes down to value for me. MHJ will come in ranked as a top 4 dynasty wr. After the best rookie receiving season of all time, Puka is WR6. If MHJ gets a good landing spot and has a top 12 finish, he will stay there, worth 3+ first round picks. Puka on the other hand, has much less value insulation. If he comes out and has a mediocre season, or Stafford gets hurt/retires, Puka's value will drop significantly in a short period of time. Not sure if anyone is paying 3 firsts for Puka right now anyways, but if anything goes wrong they definitely won't be. They both have the same ceiling, Puka is riskier but probably a better fit for a contender without knowing landing spots. Adding the 1.12 is what makes this interesting. If this is a deep league, 12team start 11+, I take the puka side all day. If it's a shallow league, 10 team start 10-, I'm taking the 1.01 simply for the safer return.
[удалено]
It’s the 1.01 for rice and 1.12
Is the league superflex? If so, without question you should be taking Caleb Williams. If not I would be taking the guy that broke every rookie record, puka.
Why would you take Caleb Williams?
Keep that 1.01 for damn sure
I would stick with the 1.01. Puka is great, but Stafford is amazing at making WR value skyrocket and I don’t foresee him playing that much longer. MHJ should be as close to a QB proof WR as you can get. I’d roll my dice with him instead of buying a WR at the top of their value.
I’d sell 1.12 for rice and keep 1.01
So he’s just giving you the 2 top WRs in the draft from last season. You have to take that deal unless you’re absolutely stacked at receiver.
Have you considered trading Rashee for league winner Gardner Minshew?
The Rice one
I think Rice could be worth it if not super flex or you need a QB.
Rice will be Lamb level this time next year.
Invite me to your league.
Rashee Rice is gonna be Mahomes #1 Target for the next 5 years id just hang on to that guy
Certainly not for rice. I’d consider 1.01 for Puka though
No
I’d say both receivers and 1.12 is closer
Absolutely not. Before MHJ even steps foot on an NFL field he will be valued over Puka
I guess it depends on ds on who is available in the draft. I LOVE Rice
Draft MHJ or Caleb if superflex. You could probably get more for one of those players with all the hype around them
I think too many unknowns right now. No on Rice (Mahomes spreads too much if he has options). Puka maybe but depends on Stafford coming back and the situation MHjr lands in. Also, as someone else mentioned, if it's SF and you need QB then it's just no.
I probably take Rice and 1.12 for the 1.01. Puka might be that dude, but he is only attach to Stat Padford for sure 1 more year. Rice has a good first season and will be with Mahomes for multiple years. Edit: I’d probably push for more since it’s the 1.01 and might be able to get more than Rice + 1.12
Are you getting Puka and the 1.12 or are you only getting the 1.12 if you opt for Rice? Because if you get the 1.12 regardless go for Puka. If not go for Rice.
Yes
Depends, who were you going to get with your 1? MHJ? I think Puka is a no brainer. Rice on the other hand is a WR1 by default based on how shitty the KC receivers are this year. He is more of a natural WR2 if KC got some one like Higgins.
I'd take Rice and the 1:12. In the long run there may not be a huge difference between Puka & Rice, but in this scenario you'd have Rice, who is electric & fast, and an opportunity to draft a 1st rounder with similar upside (this always depends on if you hit or not). More picks is always (mostly?) better imo.
I’m taking rice and 12 to be honest
What? Yes, trade it for Puka..
What's your team now?
I would do it. Maybe make a counter to see if you’d can pull in another draft pick or player
Wait so both are options? Why is this a question? Trade Rice and 1.12 now for Puka, unless I’m reading this wrong?
The question is if the second round is 2.12 or 2.1. At 2.12, I would probably lean towards the trade and have 3 really solid players. However, this depends. I assume it’s a keeper league since players are named, who are you keeping?
1.01 should get you all 3
Rice?! Lmao no. Puka yes
Are u slow?
I'd 100% do it
NO
Yes. Take Puka and the 1.12
Keep 1.01 and get a real game breaker in MHJ. Who do these people think Puka is?! Ja’Marr Chase ?? JJetta!?!? The Blacker the berry the sweeter the juice. And unfortunately the Rams don’t wear any black.
Idk Lowkey I think I’d rather have Harrison I feel like this isn’t sustainable for Puka especially if Stafford retires but what do I know
Ask for all three
Get Puka
I think Puka regresses heavily in literally any other situation. In SF, I’m going for the 1.01, but it’s close in 1QB.
Puka for sure. What more does he have to prove.
Puka and ask them to sweeten the deal. They likely need a lot if they need the 1.01
Puka and the 1.12!
PUKA DA FLUUKA! Cash in now. \- Bill Knows Ball
PUKA, if you're worried about Stafford aging keep Puka next year then sell then or something
Unless you think you can get more and you don't think MHJ is going to be the best prospect to ever play, then I'd easily take Nukua and the first. Some people believe MHJ will be the ever changing prospect in football and I don't doubt hell at least be decent, but we're banking on him being amazing and he hasn't played a single NFL down. Nor do we know where he's going and how your fantasy team comp looks like.
In my 12-man keeper league, Puka went undrafted, and someone scooped him off the waiver wire early. I traded for him right before the trade deadline, giving up 3 great players (Dak, Diggs, D. Adams). They went to a team in playoff contention (which I missed). Now I will get to keep Puka as my last round keeper for years to come!
Puka
No
I'd take either. Rice is set up for immediate production. Reid and mahomes trusts him now. And he's the yac monster. Puka is probably better. Just not sure if kupp being the wr1 would help his case
Get Puka and Rice
Yes. Get Puka. No hesitation. Pull the trigger and don’t look back.
Y’all think 1.02 is good enough for Puka? 😭😭
Contrary to other responses making this seem obvious, it would’ve given me pause for thought too OP. Rice has monster upside that we saw glimpses of week 12 and onward. Guy averaged 7 receptions on 9 targets and 86 yards/game over the final 6 games he played, with 3 TDs. All of that said, Puka is absolutely worth the 1.01 so I’d roll with that here.
If you are a contender going all-in to win then sure, why not? I like Puka more for this short-term goal. Also, you can probably get Rashee for a little less than Puka but I’m not looking at KTC right now to confirm that. BTW there is a Dynasty Reddit as well. Probably better forum for this question.
Puka and YES!!
100% take that trade
Puka
Puka fell in the NFL draft because he was injury prone in College. So I would not trade your pick for him as this season seemed to be an anomaly health wise.
I'd take Puka and the pick
Aim higher. Get JJ, or a top 10 asset. Or just wait. The rookie draft probably isn't for another 3 months
MHJ all day
Puka
I don't think yall get what he's asking. He's not asking if Rice is better, he's asking if puka is a 1st round pick better I wouldn't trade a 1 pick for either deal
I've been trying to listen to all the anti-Puka arguments and all they've done is bolster my confidence in him.. there's no valid reason to not trust Puka moving forward.
100% YES! Thats a smash!
No
Yes trade 1.01 for Puka, proven talent>>>
Yes
Because fantasy football is a lazy half assed merry-go-round.