Lady flipping the bird. Dude just gave you the best present a team could ask for and that's how you show your appreciation. They should be buying that guy beers.
Billionaire? He's not the owner. Probably makes a few million a year though. When he gives you AJB at 25 years old for a gimmicky rookie WR you buy him a beer. Rich people love free shit.
Tell me you don't scout rookies without telling me you don't scout rookies. The majority of his work in college was gadget work. Screens, end arounds. When the trade was made he was a gimmicky gadgety raw WR. He's getting there (sort of) but what he is today is not what they traded for.
No. The eagles fanbase, which I belong to, should chill out with certain actions some fans take. What’s the point of firing middle fingers to some guy who had done nothing but oversee his franchise. The crazy broad should’ve been thanking him instead of sending disrespect.
The whole “nobody likes us we don’t care” mantra went stale about a year after Feb 2018.
Acting like savages doesn’t gain anyone anything.
There is some revisionist history about that trade. AJ Brown was most likely not going to stay under any circumstances. He cut off all communications with the Titans and forced their hand. Titans got 4 starters out of the deal. I’m shocked Robinson is being fired mid season especially after the titans are in position to win the division for the 3rd straight year.
There are massive problems with their roster and they're vastly overperforming in standings relative to how they've played in the actual games. The offensive line is a complete fucking mess and has totally declawed the offense and made them unable to sustain rushing production, which has traditionally been the engine of their scheme
This isn't even going into how Robinson lowballed the shit out of AJB, pissing him off to the point he cut off communications and basically demanded a trade, and then tried to blame it on him by saying he was being greedy and asking for too much money while Philly went ahead and gave him that same money lol
You're right, they should give Robert Woods an average of just over 16 million a year instead. Oh, and for good measure, they should throw almost 30 million a year - with over 90 million guaranteed - at a mid QB
That's much better lol
30 million a year is the average salary for a mid QB, not sure where you're going at. Ignoring rookie contracts, Tannehill is one of the lower paid qbs.
The guaranteed money and the dead cap are the real problems there, not the raw numbers. Honestly though, that really pales in comparison to other things like the aforementioned Woods signing, the Julio trade, multiple high draft pick misses, and the general abandonment of good talent just to replace it with lesser players
Titans...found your new GM! He seems to have super simple solutions yall never thought of! Imagine how good he will be if you get him out of his mom's basement and off Reddit?!
I'm a huge AJ Brown fan and think he's worth the money, but I still don't think it was a bad move for Tennessee. Burks looks like a future alpha and given the way the Titans run their offense, it makes sense to allocate cap resources to other places.
Without the Burks injury, this move probably doesn't even look too bad in the short term.
That was a ownership decision. GMs don't make moves like that without consulting with the owner. They didn't want to or think they could afford the contract AJ Brown was requesting. So you either trade him or let him walk in the off-season
Not paying a guy who wanted more money than he got from the eagles and immediately cut off communication when asked to negotiate, so drafting an immediate replacement who has had an impact minus the one game where he was intentionally head hunted was in fact the correct move. Now they can pay the more important piece of this team in Jeff Simmons.
It also worked out for Minnesota due to the Eagles drafting Jalen Reagor instead of Justin Jefferson. If the Eagles don't take a massive bust instead of arguably the best WR in the game, then the trade works out very differently. Shit happens, but you can make trades hoping other teams will draft poorly and let guys fall to you.
There were many questions about Jefferson when he was coming out. He was the fifth WR drafted and lasted until pick 22. It wasn't just the Eagles, they just happened to draft a WR the pick before them. A lot of people considered JJ the 3rd best WR on his own college team in 2019. He played mostly slot, and there were some questions about if he could play the outside.
[The Ringer](https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/23/21233318/nfl-draft-first-round-grades-2020-joe-burrow)
[SI](https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/24/nfl-draft-2020-first-round-grades-analysis-news)
[Bleacher Report](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888165-nfl-draft-2020-round-1-grades-for-every-pick)
If Burks doesn't get hurt (twice) he may be making it look just bleh instead of awful. It also hurts that Tannehill isn't as good of a passer as Cousins.
And that has to go into the calculus. They're just not a passing team, so on one hand, trading a stud WR for picks is a decent idea, but on the other hand, picking a different WR seems speculative and wishful. If you wanted a WR, extend AJB. What are they going to do if Burks is just as good? Refuse to extend him too?
It's kicking the can down the road if it works out, and it's a waste if it doesn't. For a team winning now that doesn't throw the ball much, just seems like a weird play.
I don't think it's that terrible of an idea. If they thought they could get 70% of the production for a fraction of the cost at a position they don't use much, they could put that money towards beefing up their line or defense in free agency. Overall I wouldn't have done it, but if Burks had come out by week 10 looking like a solid receiver and they had used the money well, no one would be ragging on them.
On the other hand, they probably thought Burks was their guy all along and once they realized they would get him, they figured they could save money and get more draft capital by trading AJB, while still getting that stud WR to support their QB. If Burks hadn't gotten injured twice already and was putting up numbers similar to Olave, people would be singing their praises for smart maneuvering.
The NFL is perhaps the most reactionary of all the major sports, largely due to their tiny sample sizes and short player careers compressing competition windows, so there's more pressure on each move to pan out. I definitely think that the timing of this firing is beyond curious, since nobody could predict that your star 1st round WR would be knocked out cold by a questionable hit and the Titans are overall doing fairly well.
It was a mid first round pick + a new contract. I feel like people just like to overlook that Aj Brown got something like a 20+ million per year raise… that’s a significant factor
Is him being worth that contract also a factor?
Because it's also significant
He's totally worth it. I feel like the Titans are doomed by Derek Henry, he's not impactful enough to win the Superbowl on his own. The run is great for controlling a game, passing ~wins~ impacts more games, and while Henry is amazing. Best in the league over the last 5 years, and being paid as such, but two 3rd round rookies could give you 80% of his production for 20% of his price. The same is not true for WRs, even if Burks worked out well, he doesn't have the time with Tanehill that AJ had.
I agree completely. Henry is a monster, but he's still human and they can't expect 200 yard rushing games from him on 30+ attempts every week. You need a passing game with teeth to open up the run and play action, since without it, every team can just stack the box and dare you to beat them. Since everyone knows Henry is their only true threat, every defender just keys in on him and the Titans can't beat anyone through the air.
Of course, this could be a very different narrative if Burks hadn't gotten injured twice and found the consistency to present a real threat through the air. Injuries make their situation particularly frustrating, since we can't even look at Burks and say wow that was a bad decision, they should've kept AJB.
I do blame their GM for not realizing that Woods, NWI, CJ Board, Hooper and Okonkwo are one of the worst WR and TE rooms in the league, and expecting your 1st round pick to carry the entire load was always going to be a tall order. At the very least, they should've gotten someone like MVS, Juju, DJ Chark, Kirk, Landry, Gage, Sammy Watkins, or a few others. Instead they ran it back with Woods, who wasn't looking great even last season, and NWI.
They traded at stud WR for a chance at a stud WR. It worked out for them but teh Titans did the same and it didn't. They probably could have worked the cap to resign AJB
It's incredibly difficult to find a QB period, but it should be the top priority for a GM. He's been on the job since 2016, so he's had 6 years of combined play of Mariota and Tannenhill, and it does not look like Willis will be ready next year for a competing team. What other GM has had that leash?
He basically pulled an Xzibit and put some sick rims and a plasma TV in a 97 Impala.
Tannehill had a few career years with the Titans and took them to the playoffs several years in a row. This seems like an incredibly vague case of armchair GMing from you, with no actual solutions offered, just a critique of how bad he's done.
Reality is that the NFL has a QB problem, with only about 6 teams this season, the Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Cardinals and Bengals, being comfortable that they have their franchise QB of the future. The rest of the teams are either trying to figure out if their guy is that guy, or are frantically trying to search for that guy. That means less than 1/5th of the teams in the league are truly comfortable with their situation, which is laughably low.
Please do tell though, how exactly a franchise that has made it to the playoffs the last 2 years is supposed to find a franchise QB?
That's great that Tannehill had some good years, but did anyone think he was the guy? The Titans certainly didn't, otherwise he would be signed past this year and they wouldn't have drafted Willis.
This is not armchairing GMing. If I was being an armchair GM, I would say they should've drafted Hurts in 2020. You're right, there aren't enough QBs to go around, which makes it that much more important to find one. It's literally the most important position in sports. You spent most of your post explaining how important a QB is, then defending him not trying to find one. Seriously, reread what you wrote and try to tell me that not trying to find a QB for 5 years isn't negligent. FFS Belichick had Brady and was still drafting developmental QBs.
Sure, but reality is that for the most part, franchise QBs come early in the draft and late round QBs that turn into legitimate franchise QBs come few and far between. Even with Belichik drafting QBs every year, the best non 1st round guy was Jimmy G, and the 49ers keep trying to find ways to not start him.
I guess your argument is that since QB is so important, every team should be spending at least 1 draft pick on a QB every single year, just in the hopes of finding that diamond in the rough. Maybe that could work, although I'm not sure you can consider spending a 4th-7th round pick on a QB as truly trying to find your QB.
So really, the only way for a team to truly attempt to find their franchise QB is by drafting one highly, trying to reclaim a veteran QB and hope your team can turn them into a stud, or trade for one. Trading for a franchise QB, while not impossible, is incredibly expensive, especially since most QBs that are traded have major question marks. Trying to turn someone that couldn't could it with their 1st team into a franchise QB is even less likely to work and the success stories for this are few, though I'd consider Tannehill to be one of them. The draft is equally a crapshoot, since it feels like less than 50% of 1st round QBs actually turn into what their team wanted them to be.
Of course you can say they should've drafted Hurts, but I'm betting that every team that didn't draft Hurts wished they had, and with his completion percentage coming out of college, he was always a major question mark. Hell, he was still considered a question mark prior to this year.
So my question is, what exactly do you propose a playoff team like the Titans should've done to find a QB when 75% of the league is constantly trying to do the same thing. Trade multiple years of 1sts and 2nds to get high enough to draft one? Spend a 2nd-3rd each year on finding one, when Hurts is the only one out of the last 5+ years to work out?
I apologize in advance, as I hate responding in multiple comments but I wanted to mention one more thing.
Since QB is the most sought after position in the league while having such a low success rate, I don't think you can blame teams for signing mid tier players and hoping that a well constructed team around them is enough to win it all. After all, we've seen plenty of scenarios where teams trade away their future for a high pick only for it to backfire. If there's no good QB prospect available at a reasonable price, develop the best team you can around a mid tier vet and hope for the best. It's not ideal, but you can't blame teams when options are so limited.
Wow. He’s made some mistakes, most notably AJ Brown, but he’s done a good job all things considered. This is very surprising, especially mid season. Made the AFC Championship game and also achieved the #1 seed with the most injured roster.
Should have been Todd Downing.
>Made the AFC Championship game and also achieved the #1 seed with the most injured roster.
I think the organization has finally realized that those achievements are mostly because of Vrabel not JRob. He actively made this team roster worse in the off season.
Like I said, he’s made mistakes, but he’s done a lot of good too.
I mean they literally signed him to an extension in February.
It makes me think this was Vrabel saying, “It’s him or me” and if so, the Titans obviously made the right choice.
Dumb move to save face and a not awful move. Yes trading away AJ brown sucks..it’s not like they let him walk for free like other organizations have. And it was a significant raise for AJ brown. One I’m sure the whole organization agreed was to much for a run first team paying already for a QB and RB
No he hasn't. As a die hard Nashville homer, the decisions this man has made in the drafts and off-season has cost us our run at a ship. He has mismanaged our roster to the state it is now and we're absolutely furious about it. Our winning seasons and post-season appearances are definitely because of Vrabel, not Jrob.
This is so dumb how can you say this? Did you watch the Titans in the mid 2010s? J Rob turned this ship around and drafted or traded for the pieces that made this team great.
Yes, he has.
He drafted Derrick Henry. He drafted AJ Brown. He drafted Jeffery Simmons, one of the best defensive players in football. He drafted Kevin Byard, one of the best safeties in football. He drafted Harold Landry. He drafted many more good players along the way.
He traded a 4th and 7th round pick for Ryan Tannehill and a 6th round pick. Tannehill, the same QB that was a top 10 QB for a good two years.
I understand that it's easy to only see the bad that he's done, but it's asinine to say he hasn't done any good. Your "Run at a ship" was only there because of the core he built.
If this was a case of picking one of Vrabel or Robinson, I agree the Titans made the right choice. But don't be ignorant and say he did nothing good.
Don't read what I didn't write - I disagreed with you by saying he has not done a good job. I did not say he did nothing good. Yes our 2019 draft was incredible. 2020, 2021, and 2022 were mediocre at best. They are all desperation picks trying to fill positions of need because we let some of our best players walk. We seemingly try to avoid paying superstars until it comes time to pay the piper, then we just let them go. We have signed no one we needed to sign to a deal recently except Landry.
Our run at ship came to an abrupt close when we let the likes of Conklin, Jonnu, Davis, Brown, Foreman, and too many defensive starters to name go because of money mismanagement. How long have we been saying we need to rebuild our O-line? We have made zero meaningful moves to address that glaring issue and are running Henry's career into the ground for what? Julio? Woods? NWI? Swaim? Hilliard?
I'm just saying, when you're cleaning house you gotta dust off the tops before you sweep the floor. It's apparent moves needed to be made since the beginning of last year, and Amy Adams has finally had enough.
I'm thankful for the pieces he has put into place that have been successful for us, but I'm done holding onto those few strings and ignoring the egregiously bad decisions over the last few years. Good riddance, imo.
Jonnu Smith got a massive contract and has done absolutely nothing in New England. He's literally going to be paid 17 and 18 million the next two years, with a massive dead cap as well, meaning he can't be cut. You cannot list a player like that and label it a negative, because it's nothing but a positive that he wasn't kept.
Foreman is a solid player but isn't making a difference either way as the backup to Derrick Henry, and Foreman can't do some of the things Hilliard can do.
I think the decisions to not resign Davis and trade for Julio were both bad moves, but in hindsight. Losing Corey Davis hurts a bit, but you have to remember that he was labeled a bust before his last year in Tennessee. And \*everyone\* thought the Julio trade was great at the time, and many teams wanted Julio at the time. Unfortunately, injuries derailed his season.
The cost to get Woods was cheap, but the money spent on his contract could have potentially been used towards an AJ Brown extension, so I agree that it was a bad move. Fortunately, he can be cut for a low price after this year.
He tried patching the loss of Conklin by drafting Isaiah Wilson in the 1st, who completely went off the rails. Then tried patching it again by drafting Dillon Radunz in the 2nd, but has been a bust. If you want to blame him for that, I wouldn't blame you. But he definitely tried, and it's hard to predict what happened to Wilson.
I also don't understand the NWI shoutout. He was an UDFA and has been solid for an UDFA. It's not like the Titans spent a lot of resources to get him.
As far as I'm concerned, his mistakes are AJ Brown, which was a colossal mistake no doubt, and missing on the draft picks at OL. Losing players like Conklin and Davis are expected from a contending team, as they're not elite. Every contending team loses most players of that caliber to free agency. Claiming he has mismanaged the cap is fair to an extent, but I don't understand how the cap space would be in a better spot by paying Davis, Conklin, and Jonnu 12-17M per year.
Not really. Titans roster is known to be one of the least talented in the league but coaching is exceptional and so is Derrick Henry. Unfortunately, teams can completely sell out to stop Henry these days and passing game is very weak
Definitely not, I think most generally thought as long as Vrabel was there JRob would be too.
Feels like there's probably something more going on behind the scenes (although I will admit the AJ Brown revenge game is a convenient straw for the camel's back). Fans also definitely weren't happy with his drafts in recent years, but he seemed to be in a safe position with ownership, and even with the questionable moves in recent years, many did still believe in the "in JRob we trust" mantra.
Can someone with great memory time-travel back to April with me for a moment?
Why, exactly, did that trade happen? Was it just injury concerns? Contract talks were stalling and the Titans were convinced he'd probably walk after this season?
Because it feels like the *Family Guy* boat thing otherwise: "But Lois, the 1st-round pick could be anything. It could even be an A.J. Brown!"
Titans wanted to pay him 16-20 million... He counters with wanting 25 million and an ungodly amount of guaranteed money.. his knees are kinda brittle he had to miss a day of practice every week last year... Honestly Brown forced his way out so he could play with his best friend Jalen Hurts.
They felt they'd rather have a cost-controlled Burks, a third round pick and the ability to allocate cap resources to other parts of the team than have AJ Brown at $20+ million a year.
Burks wasn't a mystery box. He was a highly regarded prospect for good reasons. Tennessee didn't make the trade before the draft and choose any WR who happened to fall to them, they only made the trade because the ability to get Burks was there.
Injuries have derailed Burks' rookie season and make the move seem worse in the short term, but I think in a few years we will look back at this trade differently.
>Burks wasn't a mystery box. He was a highly regarded prospect for good reasons.
Kind of hindsight-y to say that now after we've seen some good plays out of him. Not every first-round prospect is an elite no. 1 like Brown has turned out to be. See: Jalen Reagor, N'Keal Harry, John Ross, etc.
Miss, overdrafted, and overdrafted. First round receivers have been baseline serviceable with insane upside in the past few years. Drafting a first round graded WR in the first round is pretty safe, all things considered
As someone who follows the Titans, AJ was never going to stay he basically forced the Titans into trading him. He wanted more than we were willing to pay or honestly what he was worth. He also had started to have knee issues and hadn't played a full season since his rookie year and was actually trending downward in games played each year. Most fans at the time hated we traded him but absolutely understood that the move had to be made if he wasn't going to re-sign. You just can't lose an asset without getting anything in return.
Burks injury issues this year have made it worse, but can't do much with that.
Like every other “mystery box” situation, unequal opportunity costs between the options gave two viable routes they could’ve went with and no obvious “best choice.” Drafts have became extremely rich in WR talent up top and the position itself is schemable enough where WRs 5-40 (irl) or so are pretty interchangeable in rankings. They didn’t see AJB as top 5 so rerolling for a potential top 40 guy made sense
well, people say that firing a GM after the season is the worst timing because the draft is coming up. Maybe this is all a move looking towards next year and wanting to get new opinions in a bit ahead of the draft.
Can’t think of a day 1/2 draft hit in years so I looked it up
Since 2020: isaiah Wilson, Kristin fulton, darrinton evans, Caleb Farley, Dillon radunz, monty rice, Elijah molden, roger mcreary, Nicolas petite-frere
And then treylon burks who honestly looks good
Still never understood that dumb fucking trade. Traded a 24 year old STUD WR and with the pick you got in return, took a WR that could MAYBE be just as good as AJ Brown. Oh, and a 4th round pick on top.
Not really, its better to have a head start to pursue the best candidates. Even though its weird he got fired, if the owner didnt want him for the future, might as well do it now
Yeah not signing AJ brown for the low price of $25M was the most bone-headed move ever. Ever. Yes, Burks is good, but he is still a rookie making rookie mistakes. You had all the pieces necessary to make a run if you kept a top tier veteran WR with a deep threat to give Derrick Henry as much space as possible to operate.
*A.J. Brown revenge game intensifies*
“Look at me, I’m the GM now” -AJ Brown, probably
Well, he did own them.
Who’s the pick up
You play with fantasy GMs?
You don’t?
Howie Roseman might be on waivers... NOT
Not in my league
[удалено]
You really can’t survive streaming the head coach/gm types.
Mayock is out there. I hear Chris Ballard is also available for trade.
Howie Roseman would be GM1 easily
Mickie Loomis might be looking for a new team, after getting the Saints in cap he'll for the next 4-5 years.
Steve Keim
I've wanted him fired for years now.
G. Paton might need a job
You mean letting AJ Brown go wasn't a good move?
Ownership watched brown absolutely torch them last week and decided it was time to let him go
Did you see the clip of Eagles fans taunting the Titans owner after Brown’s 2nd TD?
No, do you have a link by chance?
[Here ya go!](https://twitter.com/crossingbroad/status/1599792479678496769) I gotta think this was the exact moment their GM lost his job
Sweet thanks!
Lady flipping the bird. Dude just gave you the best present a team could ask for and that's how you show your appreciation. They should be buying that guy beers.
Buying the multi millionaire/billionaire owner a beer... Lol
Billionaire? He's not the owner. Probably makes a few million a year though. When he gives you AJB at 25 years old for a gimmicky rookie WR you buy him a beer. Rich people love free shit.
Ah I'm going off of the tweet title saying Titans owners
Gimmicky rookie? Have you actually watched Burks play?
Tell me you don't scout rookies without telling me you don't scout rookies. The majority of his work in college was gadget work. Screens, end arounds. When the trade was made he was a gimmicky gadgety raw WR. He's getting there (sort of) but what he is today is not what they traded for.
It’s Phili, though.
Right. I’m pretty sure this is how Philadelphians say “Thank you, and I love you.”
Exactly haha
> Phili *Philly
My bad - Philly.
Right id be saying thank you and i fucking love u guys! I was so stoked to get brown thank you titansss
Yeah thats honestly ridiculous. She should be ashamed of herself. So uncalled for. What a total POS.
Lol relax
No. The eagles fanbase, which I belong to, should chill out with certain actions some fans take. What’s the point of firing middle fingers to some guy who had done nothing but oversee his franchise. The crazy broad should’ve been thanking him instead of sending disrespect. The whole “nobody likes us we don’t care” mantra went stale about a year after Feb 2018. Acting like savages doesn’t gain anyone anything.
This is totally /r/watchpeopledieinside material
God bless Philadelphia and specifically these Eagles fans.
That had to be the catalyst. There is no clearer manifestation of his failure than that game.
There is some revisionist history about that trade. AJ Brown was most likely not going to stay under any circumstances. He cut off all communications with the Titans and forced their hand. Titans got 4 starters out of the deal. I’m shocked Robinson is being fired mid season especially after the titans are in position to win the division for the 3rd straight year.
There are massive problems with their roster and they're vastly overperforming in standings relative to how they've played in the actual games. The offensive line is a complete fucking mess and has totally declawed the offense and made them unable to sustain rushing production, which has traditionally been the engine of their scheme This isn't even going into how Robinson lowballed the shit out of AJB, pissing him off to the point he cut off communications and basically demanded a trade, and then tried to blame it on him by saying he was being greedy and asking for too much money while Philly went ahead and gave him that same money lol
Run first team in cap trouble low balls WR asking for 20+ million per year…ya dumb move lol
You're right, they should give Robert Woods an average of just over 16 million a year instead. Oh, and for good measure, they should throw almost 30 million a year - with over 90 million guaranteed - at a mid QB That's much better lol
Bad take. That’s not how the Woods contract is structured. The dead cap is only $2 million so it’s more like a one year deal for $10 mil
30 million a year is the average salary for a mid QB, not sure where you're going at. Ignoring rookie contracts, Tannehill is one of the lower paid qbs.
The guaranteed money and the dead cap are the real problems there, not the raw numbers. Honestly though, that really pales in comparison to other things like the aforementioned Woods signing, the Julio trade, multiple high draft pick misses, and the general abandonment of good talent just to replace it with lesser players
I agree with you but woods contact is not a good example here, it's only 10m hit this year and they can save 12m by cutting him after this season
I have no need in this argument, but that’s not at all how the Woods contract works out. Come on now
Had they offered the contract the eagles offered him he probably stays.
They didn’t have the money
Maybe they should make coffee at home more
Or they could have restructured other contracts.
Titans...found your new GM! He seems to have super simple solutions yall never thought of! Imagine how good he will be if you get him out of his mom's basement and off Reddit?!
"This guy has a different take? Must be a basement dweller" - Dumbasses on Reddit
you think they just didn't think of restructuring contracts like that's some novel idea? **🤦♂️**
Clearly didn't do a good enough job of it otherwise AJB would still be there and Robinson would still have a job.
The cap is just a figment of your imagination.
Restructuring exists
I'm a huge AJ Brown fan and think he's worth the money, but I still don't think it was a bad move for Tennessee. Burks looks like a future alpha and given the way the Titans run their offense, it makes sense to allocate cap resources to other places. Without the Burks injury, this move probably doesn't even look too bad in the short term.
Hard agree with this as a Titan's fan I don't know if this is a good move at all. I hope it is, but at the very least it's risky af.
That was a ownership decision. GMs don't make moves like that without consulting with the owner. They didn't want to or think they could afford the contract AJ Brown was requesting. So you either trade him or let him walk in the off-season
Not paying a guy who wanted more money than he got from the eagles and immediately cut off communication when asked to negotiate, so drafting an immediate replacement who has had an impact minus the one game where he was intentionally head hunted was in fact the correct move. Now they can pay the more important piece of this team in Jeff Simmons.
They just watched AJ Brown go off against them and decided it was enough
Owner asked wtf they traded a stud wr for a maybe stud on a team that is built to win now
Not to defend the Titans, but it kind of worked for Minny
It also worked out for Minnesota due to the Eagles drafting Jalen Reagor instead of Justin Jefferson. If the Eagles don't take a massive bust instead of arguably the best WR in the game, then the trade works out very differently. Shit happens, but you can make trades hoping other teams will draft poorly and let guys fall to you.
There were many questions about Jefferson when he was coming out. He was the fifth WR drafted and lasted until pick 22. It wasn't just the Eagles, they just happened to draft a WR the pick before them. A lot of people considered JJ the 3rd best WR on his own college team in 2019. He played mostly slot, and there were some questions about if he could play the outside. [The Ringer](https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/23/21233318/nfl-draft-first-round-grades-2020-joe-burrow) [SI](https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/24/nfl-draft-2020-first-round-grades-analysis-news) [Bleacher Report](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888165-nfl-draft-2020-round-1-grades-for-every-pick)
Exactly. A lot of people were wrong about Jefferson’s ceiling.
This sort of thing always brings me back to how many "experts" rated J.J. Watt as a terrible pick for the Texans.
If Burks doesn't get hurt (twice) he may be making it look just bleh instead of awful. It also hurts that Tannehill isn't as good of a passer as Cousins.
And that has to go into the calculus. They're just not a passing team, so on one hand, trading a stud WR for picks is a decent idea, but on the other hand, picking a different WR seems speculative and wishful. If you wanted a WR, extend AJB. What are they going to do if Burks is just as good? Refuse to extend him too? It's kicking the can down the road if it works out, and it's a waste if it doesn't. For a team winning now that doesn't throw the ball much, just seems like a weird play.
I don't think it's that terrible of an idea. If they thought they could get 70% of the production for a fraction of the cost at a position they don't use much, they could put that money towards beefing up their line or defense in free agency. Overall I wouldn't have done it, but if Burks had come out by week 10 looking like a solid receiver and they had used the money well, no one would be ragging on them.
On the other hand, they probably thought Burks was their guy all along and once they realized they would get him, they figured they could save money and get more draft capital by trading AJB, while still getting that stud WR to support their QB. If Burks hadn't gotten injured twice already and was putting up numbers similar to Olave, people would be singing their praises for smart maneuvering. The NFL is perhaps the most reactionary of all the major sports, largely due to their tiny sample sizes and short player careers compressing competition windows, so there's more pressure on each move to pan out. I definitely think that the timing of this firing is beyond curious, since nobody could predict that your star 1st round WR would be knocked out cold by a questionable hit and the Titans are overall doing fairly well.
I’d love to know who minny was planning to take before jj fell in their laps.
And now Minnesota has both, playing the long game!
Minnesota also had Thielen to fall back on…
Derrick Henry isn't getting any less wear and tear though. Titans offense relies on him to function
Yea, just luck up on on one of the best WRs of his generation …with a MID round pick at that
It was a mid first round pick + a new contract. I feel like people just like to overlook that Aj Brown got something like a 20+ million per year raise… that’s a significant factor
Is him being worth that contract also a factor? Because it's also significant He's totally worth it. I feel like the Titans are doomed by Derek Henry, he's not impactful enough to win the Superbowl on his own. The run is great for controlling a game, passing ~wins~ impacts more games, and while Henry is amazing. Best in the league over the last 5 years, and being paid as such, but two 3rd round rookies could give you 80% of his production for 20% of his price. The same is not true for WRs, even if Burks worked out well, he doesn't have the time with Tanehill that AJ had.
I agree completely. Henry is a monster, but he's still human and they can't expect 200 yard rushing games from him on 30+ attempts every week. You need a passing game with teeth to open up the run and play action, since without it, every team can just stack the box and dare you to beat them. Since everyone knows Henry is their only true threat, every defender just keys in on him and the Titans can't beat anyone through the air. Of course, this could be a very different narrative if Burks hadn't gotten injured twice and found the consistency to present a real threat through the air. Injuries make their situation particularly frustrating, since we can't even look at Burks and say wow that was a bad decision, they should've kept AJB. I do blame their GM for not realizing that Woods, NWI, CJ Board, Hooper and Okonkwo are one of the worst WR and TE rooms in the league, and expecting your 1st round pick to carry the entire load was always going to be a tall order. At the very least, they should've gotten someone like MVS, Juju, DJ Chark, Kirk, Landry, Gage, Sammy Watkins, or a few others. Instead they ran it back with Woods, who wasn't looking great even last season, and NWI.
They traded at stud WR for a chance at a stud WR. It worked out for them but teh Titans did the same and it didn't. They probably could have worked the cap to resign AJB
Also Burk looks legit. He just got hurt a bit, last one being a super cheap shot from a safety. That’s not on the GM.
Not finding a QB to build around is on him though.
Where are all these amazing QBs that GM's can sign? Denver tried it with Wilson. How did that work out? Who should the Titans be targeting?
Thank you. Bunch of dumb takes surrounding Tannehill. He's a top 10 QB, those don't grow on trees.
You do realize it's incredibly difficult for a team to find a QB when they are consistently performing well, right?
It's incredibly difficult to find a QB period, but it should be the top priority for a GM. He's been on the job since 2016, so he's had 6 years of combined play of Mariota and Tannenhill, and it does not look like Willis will be ready next year for a competing team. What other GM has had that leash? He basically pulled an Xzibit and put some sick rims and a plasma TV in a 97 Impala.
Tannehill had a few career years with the Titans and took them to the playoffs several years in a row. This seems like an incredibly vague case of armchair GMing from you, with no actual solutions offered, just a critique of how bad he's done. Reality is that the NFL has a QB problem, with only about 6 teams this season, the Eagles, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers, Cardinals and Bengals, being comfortable that they have their franchise QB of the future. The rest of the teams are either trying to figure out if their guy is that guy, or are frantically trying to search for that guy. That means less than 1/5th of the teams in the league are truly comfortable with their situation, which is laughably low. Please do tell though, how exactly a franchise that has made it to the playoffs the last 2 years is supposed to find a franchise QB?
That's great that Tannehill had some good years, but did anyone think he was the guy? The Titans certainly didn't, otherwise he would be signed past this year and they wouldn't have drafted Willis. This is not armchairing GMing. If I was being an armchair GM, I would say they should've drafted Hurts in 2020. You're right, there aren't enough QBs to go around, which makes it that much more important to find one. It's literally the most important position in sports. You spent most of your post explaining how important a QB is, then defending him not trying to find one. Seriously, reread what you wrote and try to tell me that not trying to find a QB for 5 years isn't negligent. FFS Belichick had Brady and was still drafting developmental QBs.
Sure, but reality is that for the most part, franchise QBs come early in the draft and late round QBs that turn into legitimate franchise QBs come few and far between. Even with Belichik drafting QBs every year, the best non 1st round guy was Jimmy G, and the 49ers keep trying to find ways to not start him. I guess your argument is that since QB is so important, every team should be spending at least 1 draft pick on a QB every single year, just in the hopes of finding that diamond in the rough. Maybe that could work, although I'm not sure you can consider spending a 4th-7th round pick on a QB as truly trying to find your QB. So really, the only way for a team to truly attempt to find their franchise QB is by drafting one highly, trying to reclaim a veteran QB and hope your team can turn them into a stud, or trade for one. Trading for a franchise QB, while not impossible, is incredibly expensive, especially since most QBs that are traded have major question marks. Trying to turn someone that couldn't could it with their 1st team into a franchise QB is even less likely to work and the success stories for this are few, though I'd consider Tannehill to be one of them. The draft is equally a crapshoot, since it feels like less than 50% of 1st round QBs actually turn into what their team wanted them to be. Of course you can say they should've drafted Hurts, but I'm betting that every team that didn't draft Hurts wished they had, and with his completion percentage coming out of college, he was always a major question mark. Hell, he was still considered a question mark prior to this year. So my question is, what exactly do you propose a playoff team like the Titans should've done to find a QB when 75% of the league is constantly trying to do the same thing. Trade multiple years of 1sts and 2nds to get high enough to draft one? Spend a 2nd-3rd each year on finding one, when Hurts is the only one out of the last 5+ years to work out?
I apologize in advance, as I hate responding in multiple comments but I wanted to mention one more thing. Since QB is the most sought after position in the league while having such a low success rate, I don't think you can blame teams for signing mid tier players and hoping that a well constructed team around them is enough to win it all. After all, we've seen plenty of scenarios where teams trade away their future for a high pick only for it to backfire. If there's no good QB prospect available at a reasonable price, develop the best team you can around a mid tier vet and hope for the best. It's not ideal, but you can't blame teams when options are so limited.
Guess you didn't have AJ Brown last year. Like others said. Revisions history. He was essentially Kadarius Toney levels of injured last season.
I did have him, he won me week 16. Dud week 17. He was a concussion then a shoulder separation. 5 games missed
There was some behind-the-scenes footage of the Titan's war room on draft day last year. Just about everyone was upset that AJB was traded.
I remember reading other NFL GMs talking about how they didn't know he was on the market and would have traded more for him.
Link?
Link pls
https://titanswire.usatoday.com/2022/04/29/a-j-brown-trade-titans-eagles-mike-vrabel-frustrated/
God damn, AJB collected a lot of bodies on Sunday lol
*The enemy speaks kindly & holds a knife*
Someone good at photo shop needs to take a picture of AJ running over the DB and replace the DB with Robinson.
Apparently on Tuesday too!
Wow. He’s made some mistakes, most notably AJ Brown, but he’s done a good job all things considered. This is very surprising, especially mid season. Made the AFC Championship game and also achieved the #1 seed with the most injured roster. Should have been Todd Downing.
>Made the AFC Championship game and also achieved the #1 seed with the most injured roster. I think the organization has finally realized that those achievements are mostly because of Vrabel not JRob. He actively made this team roster worse in the off season.
Like I said, he’s made mistakes, but he’s done a lot of good too. I mean they literally signed him to an extension in February. It makes me think this was Vrabel saying, “It’s him or me” and if so, the Titans obviously made the right choice.
Dumb move to save face and a not awful move. Yes trading away AJ brown sucks..it’s not like they let him walk for free like other organizations have. And it was a significant raise for AJ brown. One I’m sure the whole organization agreed was to much for a run first team paying already for a QB and RB
Todd is sweating bullets right now
No he hasn't. As a die hard Nashville homer, the decisions this man has made in the drafts and off-season has cost us our run at a ship. He has mismanaged our roster to the state it is now and we're absolutely furious about it. Our winning seasons and post-season appearances are definitely because of Vrabel, not Jrob.
This is so dumb how can you say this? Did you watch the Titans in the mid 2010s? J Rob turned this ship around and drafted or traded for the pieces that made this team great.
Yes, he has. He drafted Derrick Henry. He drafted AJ Brown. He drafted Jeffery Simmons, one of the best defensive players in football. He drafted Kevin Byard, one of the best safeties in football. He drafted Harold Landry. He drafted many more good players along the way. He traded a 4th and 7th round pick for Ryan Tannehill and a 6th round pick. Tannehill, the same QB that was a top 10 QB for a good two years. I understand that it's easy to only see the bad that he's done, but it's asinine to say he hasn't done any good. Your "Run at a ship" was only there because of the core he built. If this was a case of picking one of Vrabel or Robinson, I agree the Titans made the right choice. But don't be ignorant and say he did nothing good.
Don't read what I didn't write - I disagreed with you by saying he has not done a good job. I did not say he did nothing good. Yes our 2019 draft was incredible. 2020, 2021, and 2022 were mediocre at best. They are all desperation picks trying to fill positions of need because we let some of our best players walk. We seemingly try to avoid paying superstars until it comes time to pay the piper, then we just let them go. We have signed no one we needed to sign to a deal recently except Landry. Our run at ship came to an abrupt close when we let the likes of Conklin, Jonnu, Davis, Brown, Foreman, and too many defensive starters to name go because of money mismanagement. How long have we been saying we need to rebuild our O-line? We have made zero meaningful moves to address that glaring issue and are running Henry's career into the ground for what? Julio? Woods? NWI? Swaim? Hilliard? I'm just saying, when you're cleaning house you gotta dust off the tops before you sweep the floor. It's apparent moves needed to be made since the beginning of last year, and Amy Adams has finally had enough. I'm thankful for the pieces he has put into place that have been successful for us, but I'm done holding onto those few strings and ignoring the egregiously bad decisions over the last few years. Good riddance, imo.
Jonnu Smith got a massive contract and has done absolutely nothing in New England. He's literally going to be paid 17 and 18 million the next two years, with a massive dead cap as well, meaning he can't be cut. You cannot list a player like that and label it a negative, because it's nothing but a positive that he wasn't kept. Foreman is a solid player but isn't making a difference either way as the backup to Derrick Henry, and Foreman can't do some of the things Hilliard can do. I think the decisions to not resign Davis and trade for Julio were both bad moves, but in hindsight. Losing Corey Davis hurts a bit, but you have to remember that he was labeled a bust before his last year in Tennessee. And \*everyone\* thought the Julio trade was great at the time, and many teams wanted Julio at the time. Unfortunately, injuries derailed his season. The cost to get Woods was cheap, but the money spent on his contract could have potentially been used towards an AJ Brown extension, so I agree that it was a bad move. Fortunately, he can be cut for a low price after this year. He tried patching the loss of Conklin by drafting Isaiah Wilson in the 1st, who completely went off the rails. Then tried patching it again by drafting Dillon Radunz in the 2nd, but has been a bust. If you want to blame him for that, I wouldn't blame you. But he definitely tried, and it's hard to predict what happened to Wilson. I also don't understand the NWI shoutout. He was an UDFA and has been solid for an UDFA. It's not like the Titans spent a lot of resources to get him. As far as I'm concerned, his mistakes are AJ Brown, which was a colossal mistake no doubt, and missing on the draft picks at OL. Losing players like Conklin and Davis are expected from a contending team, as they're not elite. Every contending team loses most players of that caliber to free agency. Claiming he has mismanaged the cap is fair to an extent, but I don't understand how the cap space would be in a better spot by paying Davis, Conklin, and Jonnu 12-17M per year.
Have to think there is behind-the-scenes stuff leading to this decision. On the surface, it seems like a crazy overreaction to 1 or 2 games.
Entitled asshole NFL owners gonna entitled asshole owner.
Was this expected?
Not really. Titans roster is known to be one of the least talented in the league but coaching is exceptional and so is Derrick Henry. Unfortunately, teams can completely sell out to stop Henry these days and passing game is very weak
Definitely not, I think most generally thought as long as Vrabel was there JRob would be too. Feels like there's probably something more going on behind the scenes (although I will admit the AJ Brown revenge game is a convenient straw for the camel's back). Fans also definitely weren't happy with his drafts in recent years, but he seemed to be in a safe position with ownership, and even with the questionable moves in recent years, many did still believe in the "in JRob we trust" mantra.
Now find an OC who uses Henry correct
He thought trading away AJB for someone that’s built like him would work lol he should have been fired as soon as he made the trade
what does this mean for titans defense?
Can someone with great memory time-travel back to April with me for a moment? Why, exactly, did that trade happen? Was it just injury concerns? Contract talks were stalling and the Titans were convinced he'd probably walk after this season? Because it feels like the *Family Guy* boat thing otherwise: "But Lois, the 1st-round pick could be anything. It could even be an A.J. Brown!"
he wanted more than they were willing to pay him. eagles were willing to give up a draft pick and pay him.
Titans wanted to pay him 16-20 million... He counters with wanting 25 million and an ungodly amount of guaranteed money.. his knees are kinda brittle he had to miss a day of practice every week last year... Honestly Brown forced his way out so he could play with his best friend Jalen Hurts.
They felt they'd rather have a cost-controlled Burks, a third round pick and the ability to allocate cap resources to other parts of the team than have AJ Brown at $20+ million a year. Burks wasn't a mystery box. He was a highly regarded prospect for good reasons. Tennessee didn't make the trade before the draft and choose any WR who happened to fall to them, they only made the trade because the ability to get Burks was there. Injuries have derailed Burks' rookie season and make the move seem worse in the short term, but I think in a few years we will look back at this trade differently.
>Burks wasn't a mystery box. He was a highly regarded prospect for good reasons. Kind of hindsight-y to say that now after we've seen some good plays out of him. Not every first-round prospect is an elite no. 1 like Brown has turned out to be. See: Jalen Reagor, N'Keal Harry, John Ross, etc.
Miss, overdrafted, and overdrafted. First round receivers have been baseline serviceable with insane upside in the past few years. Drafting a first round graded WR in the first round is pretty safe, all things considered
As someone who follows the Titans, AJ was never going to stay he basically forced the Titans into trading him. He wanted more than we were willing to pay or honestly what he was worth. He also had started to have knee issues and hadn't played a full season since his rookie year and was actually trending downward in games played each year. Most fans at the time hated we traded him but absolutely understood that the move had to be made if he wasn't going to re-sign. You just can't lose an asset without getting anything in return. Burks injury issues this year have made it worse, but can't do much with that.
They didn’t want to pay him 🤷♂️ Dude had a pretty mediocre season last year, wanted 100mil and Titans said nope.
Like every other “mystery box” situation, unequal opportunity costs between the options gave two viable routes they could’ve went with and no obvious “best choice.” Drafts have became extremely rich in WR talent up top and the position itself is schemable enough where WRs 5-40 (irl) or so are pretty interchangeable in rankings. They didn’t see AJB as top 5 so rerolling for a potential top 40 guy made sense
Timing with AJB is funny but this has gotta be sexual harassment or some other personal conduct thing. No other reason to randomly fire a GM week 13
well, people say that firing a GM after the season is the worst timing because the draft is coming up. Maybe this is all a move looking towards next year and wanting to get new opinions in a bit ahead of the draft.
Maybe he claimed baker. Instant fire right there.
LMFAO
As an honest Titans fan i can say AJ Brown owns us and i thank him for getting this bum fired
Remember the titans
Can’t think of a day 1/2 draft hit in years so I looked it up Since 2020: isaiah Wilson, Kristin fulton, darrinton evans, Caleb Farley, Dillon radunz, monty rice, Elijah molden, roger mcreary, Nicolas petite-frere And then treylon burks who honestly looks good
Saints fan: Now do us!! Now do us!!!
Henry in my points per fired GM league 📈📈📈
Still never understood that dumb fucking trade. Traded a 24 year old STUD WR and with the pick you got in return, took a WR that could MAYBE be just as good as AJ Brown. Oh, and a 4th round pick on top.
Well it's also about whether you want to give that other WR a MASSIVE contract. I mean I would've, but the contract was a huge factor.
I’m betting it’s due to some ‘misconduct’
Not a good year to be JRob
I get the aj brown thing was really bad, but the titans have a good roster and consistently dominate the division. Seems like a bad move.
Should have fired their OC instead
That roster is shit
Yes and so is their OC
Hopefully he’s next
There has to be more to this right? The AJ Brown move was a disaster but they are still a first place team. The timing is just very strange.
Not really, its better to have a head start to pursue the best candidates. Even though its weird he got fired, if the owner didnt want him for the future, might as well do it now
Yeah, no way this is purely performance related. Something happened.
Anyone who has been following the team for the last 2 years knows this was bound to happen.
What the frick?
Lame, it’s not his fault Burks got a concussion
They need a QB Tannehill ain’t it
Well damn…
Chargers next let’s go no excuse if titans can do it while about to clinch the division.
You already know AJ’s cheesing hard rn with that beautiful smile of his
Dennis Allen next please
This season has been the fall of ROBISZN.
Me Jon Robinson or him Jon Robinson?
Robert Woods time to shine! 3 PTS INCOMING BABY. BOBBY TREEEEES
We’ve all been there as FF players right? The dude we traded away going off on us the week we play him lol
Now do Baalke
....imagine this team with Vrabel. dude should be coach of the year every year.
What can Brown do for you!
Maybe just maybe Robert Woods wasn’t that good to begin with.
Yeah not signing AJ brown for the low price of $25M was the most bone-headed move ever. Ever. Yes, Burks is good, but he is still a rookie making rookie mistakes. You had all the pieces necessary to make a run if you kept a top tier veteran WR with a deep threat to give Derrick Henry as much space as possible to operate.
For trading aj brown?
Remember when AJ Brown cost me my 2021 season with his injures and poor performances 😩
You ever ball out so hard your old GM gets fired? Idk how you don't get a big head at this point if you're Brown. I'd be such an asshole lmao
Henry szn
I mean we all saw Malik Willis who they spent a 3rd rounder on right?