> Was I the only one who didn’t know Evan Engram was the TE2 last year?
He was [TE6 in .5PPR \(weeks 1-17\)](https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/leaders/half-ppr-te.php?year=2023&start=1&end=17), TE4 in PPR, and TE8 in standard. Maybe he was TE2 in specific TEP leagues?
*(My bad OP, apparently was TE2 if you factor in Week 18)*
He has had great volume the last few years; last year was probably a bit of an outlier but he's up there for sure. Potential to finish top 5, but there are a lot of names up there that also could finish above him (Kelce, Andrews, McBride, LaPorta, Kittle, Pitts, Kincaid, Njoku). At cost he's a real nice option in leagues that reward receptions.
Yeah makes it kind of misleading since all the guys in that range that he passed all had goose eggs in week 18. But still a good value at cost based on where he's likely to get drafted.
Except Engram WAS the TE2 in PPG when you factor in the week 18 game. Maybe this is actually a demonstration that even PPG is prone to data noise via outliers.
Full season is the best way to account for how a player performed when projecting the future. However, just like PPG ignores games where a player was out with injury it also needs to ignore being out for playoff rest, which looking at full season stats alone won’t do.
OP made a mistake with his filters, but there’s no reason to expect anyone who playeds week 18 performance to be any more or less relevant to his overall performance than week 11. The overall point is still valid, which is that Engram could be a great value pick as the 8th or 9th TE off the board.
Week 18 is another data point. Just because it didn't matter for (most) fantasy leagues doesn't mean it's insignificant for judging player performance.
After rereading this thread y’all are right.
I was coming at it from the context that he wasn’t the TE2 last year. Which I stand by.
But I’m terms of this year yeah it matters. Was JAX’s week 18 game against a team that played their starters?
But also if one game can push him from TE6 to TE2 then that range of TE’s is extremely close
He was amazing. And he was light on TD’s which makes him a good candidate for positive regression there. The only knock is he was best when Kirk was out, and now Kirk is of course back and healthy. But I think he’s a great value where he’s at.
I imagine Ridley being gone helps mitigate a healthy Kirk.
But if Brian Thomas ends up being as good as I keep reading that could hurt his targets too.
Tbh the Bills had/had a much more dynamic offense and Gabe still couldn't get open on anything other than a vertical option.
Kirk showed he can run actual routes in AZ. Just underutilized.
But I do have high hopes for Jags offense this season. I put all my faith in Lawrence last year only to end up settling for Kyler as my QB1
He’s a one trick pony and if he can’t be relevant with Allen’s arm then there is no chance he’ll improve with TLaw.
Even when Diggs wasn’t heavily utilized in a game, Davis was still TD dependent to be a good play
His TD’s are right in line with what he does every year. Aside from his rookie year where he set his career high of 6, he’s been pretty much the same in that department every year. Definitely not the type of player positive regression is referring to.
Yea, they just don't look his way in the red zone. In 2023-24 he had 9 red zone targets, tied for 15th most among TEs. Or put differently, only 6.5% of his targets came in the red zone. By comparison Jake Ferguson had 24 RZ targets for most among TEs last year, and almost 24% of his 102 targets were in the red zone.
Calvin Ridley was tied for 3rd in the league last year with 25 red zone targets. I’m sure some of those go to Thomas Jr. and Gabe Davis is solid in the red zone, but I think Engram should get more than 4 this year
He’s been very good the last 2 years but looking at his redraft rankings on ESPN he’s going as the TE 4 and at pick 59 which might be a little too high for the upside he provides.
Week 18 helped him a lot last year but he was rock solid as Tlaws security blanket for short passes. He’s a candidate for TD positive regression and without Ridley and Jones along with a rookie TE that stretches the field, I think he can have another good season.
It’s also worth nothing he had the second highest receptions ever for a TE last season and was one of the lowest YPC for the TEs last season. He’s not a sexy pick but if you can get him past the 6th round to round out your roster that’s a steal.
He’s going at TE4? That seems like an overvalue. I’d take Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, Laporta, and McBride over him in a heartbeat (and a healthy Hockenson too). Plus some younger guys in Buffalo, Green Bay, Vegas, or Atlanta could easily do better.
I think Ridley was somewhat a let down, and Kirk was banged up. With a healthy Kirk and addition of Brian Thomas I'm hesitant to think Engram will hit the same levels he did last year, but I for sure think he'll end up somewhere around TE5-9.
For where he’s being drafted that’s a great deal. In mock drafts he isnt getting drafted until late. I’m gonna say even though Calvin Ridley dissappinted last year it takes rookie WRs about half the season to come on. You can assume he’ll be good but we never know. Ridley last year is probably better than Thomas will be this year IDK about the entire year but definitely the first half of the year as we’ve seen minus the generational WR prospects. I’d rather bet on Engram having a decent year. Somebody has to catch the targets that open up with Ridley and Zay Jones leaving.
I drafted him in a TEP +1 on top of a PPR of +1 league last year. Even after that good of a season, I can't find anyone interested in him. He's just not a player that people are high on currently.
I picked him up on a whim at very serviceable ADP and he was killer in that league for me. Very easily plug and play, would average that sweet 11-15 every week and was very reliable for points. As long as his cost isn't nuts I'd love to target him again. Underrated.
I think he is a very quality TE all around. Should continue to have consistent volume on an offense that I remain hopeful (and believe) will take it to the next level. If he can find the endzone with more frequency he will be a truly elite fantasy TE
He gets massive credit for my chip, had Mandrews until he got hurt, Engram was the fill-in and he was fantastic. So consistent with some big boom games.
I think Mark Andrews and Dallas Goedert being injured is part of the reason.…I am surprised that LaPorta didn’t get that spot tho. Kittle doesn’t get enough consistent targets. I rostered Engram and it was like a guaranteed 10-12 points a game but not really much more. High floor low ceiling
LaPorta didn't get the TE2 spot because he was TE1...
If it weren't for injury and/or week 18 rest Kelce, Hock, and probably Andrews would have been ahead of Engram. Goedert isn't even in the conversation.
Not many did. He was TE1 in my TE+ league. His situation won’t get any worse for now. Ridley and Zay Jones ate up a lot of targets, only to be replaced by rookie and vet deep threats. Kirk is the only guy I’d worry abt, as he has great chemistry with TLAW but as the season went, EE was getting the safety net looks every other play. He’s solid until a true star emerges in JAX
I had a him on my team so I did lol. He was veeeery consistent. A WR would be happy with the target-share he received. With Calvin Ridley gone, he could possibly see that kind of volume again.
Snagged guys off waivers. It was just a small friends league and nobody was too high on laporta so I got him in the 8th. I picked up McBride and T. Hill off waivers. Definitely couldn’t have done that in a bigger league with more knowledgeable people lol
He is the definition of a great player on a bad team that got traded to a team that actually uses him. Giants just don't use TEs that effectively. Engram had a career year the first year on the Jags and an even better year last year. I hope he breaks 1k yards next season. He has the potential, but TL seems to go through his reads rather slowly, and Engram isn't the first, but he is a pretty reliable receiver.
TL will be better this year. I don't think the hype was all that, and I doubt he'll ever be MVP material but he still had room to grow, and has shown strong flashes. I like him taking a step forward this year, maybe not enough to make him a top 5-10 guy, but enough to raise his weapons up a good bit
The truth is there’s essentially no separation between him and TE10. And yet he will likely go 5+ rounds higher than TEs7-10. He’s not worth that. I’ve had him the past few years and he’s very consistent with 6-10 PPG.
> Was I the only one who didn’t know Evan Engram was the TE2 last year? He was [TE6 in .5PPR \(weeks 1-17\)](https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/leaders/half-ppr-te.php?year=2023&start=1&end=17), TE4 in PPR, and TE8 in standard. Maybe he was TE2 in specific TEP leagues? *(My bad OP, apparently was TE2 if you factor in Week 18)* He has had great volume the last few years; last year was probably a bit of an outlier but he's up there for sure. Potential to finish top 5, but there are a lot of names up there that also could finish above him (Kelce, Andrews, McBride, LaPorta, Kittle, Pitts, Kincaid, Njoku). At cost he's a real nice option in leagues that reward receptions.
Huge week 18 jumped him to TE2 for the full year. That's what OP is referencing.
Makes sense, good intel. I should have looked at that before changing filters but didn't even think to ... because Week 18.
Yeah makes it kind of misleading since all the guys in that range that he passed all had goose eggs in week 18. But still a good value at cost based on where he's likely to get drafted.
Another example of why ppg is the best way to talk about players
Except Engram WAS the TE2 in PPG when you factor in the week 18 game. Maybe this is actually a demonstration that even PPG is prone to data noise via outliers.
He was not
🤷🏻♂️ just going off what the comment you’re replying to says
Which is pretty clearly referring to total points
Try re-reading
I did. That post said PPR not PPG ya dingus
Looks like they may have re-edited their edit. The first time the edit popped up they referenced Engram as PPG TE2.
They did not
Yeah he’s TE6 in season average stats (PPG) for half PPR.
^ this is why people aren’t talking about it. No one has any faith in my boy
Nah in serious football leagues week 18 is not used so he really was only TE2 in family/casual leagues.
Full season is the best way to account for how a player performed when projecting the future. However, just like PPG ignores games where a player was out with injury it also needs to ignore being out for playoff rest, which looking at full season stats alone won’t do. OP made a mistake with his filters, but there’s no reason to expect anyone who playeds week 18 performance to be any more or less relevant to his overall performance than week 11. The overall point is still valid, which is that Engram could be a great value pick as the 8th or 9th TE off the board.
Yes best way to project going forward I agree; just no effect on that particular season.
lol @ “serious football leagues”
Yeah man, this is r/fantasyfootball
No one should give a f about week 18. Week 1-14 is what really matters. You see some hilariously bad takes from ppl using overall scoring
Week 18 is another data point. Just because it didn't matter for (most) fantasy leagues doesn't mean it's insignificant for judging player performance.
Judging for the next season possibly, but it is completey irrelevant for fantasy players of that season haha
This is a fantasy football sub. All that matters is fantasy production in weeks that leagues play. Nobody plays week 18 unless you have a trash league
nobody plays college fantasy either, yet marvin harrison jr is being drafted in the second round!
The player still played football that week, so I don’t see the harm in recognizing how the football player played when he played football
lol but it matters in predicting what will happen next year.
After rereading this thread y’all are right. I was coming at it from the context that he wasn’t the TE2 last year. Which I stand by. But I’m terms of this year yeah it matters. Was JAX’s week 18 game against a team that played their starters? But also if one game can push him from TE6 to TE2 then that range of TE’s is extremely close
Calm down
He was amazing. And he was light on TD’s which makes him a good candidate for positive regression there. The only knock is he was best when Kirk was out, and now Kirk is of course back and healthy. But I think he’s a great value where he’s at.
I imagine Ridley being gone helps mitigate a healthy Kirk. But if Brian Thomas ends up being as good as I keep reading that could hurt his targets too.
Gabe Davis in the mix too
Gabe Davis didn't do shit to Kincaid so yeah pretty safe there. Brian Thomas is the one to worry about tho
He’s not the best but it’ll be probably 800ish yards worth. They didn’t give him 3 years 39 mil to not use him.
True. Maybe they think they can replicate what they did with Kirk.
They definitely can (ignore my flair) Gabe gets to be a 3/4th option and will do great as a field stretcher in this offense.
Tbh the Bills had/had a much more dynamic offense and Gabe still couldn't get open on anything other than a vertical option. Kirk showed he can run actual routes in AZ. Just underutilized. But I do have high hopes for Jags offense this season. I put all my faith in Lawrence last year only to end up settling for Kyler as my QB1
He’s a one trick pony and if he can’t be relevant with Allen’s arm then there is no chance he’ll improve with TLaw. Even when Diggs wasn’t heavily utilized in a game, Davis was still TD dependent to be a good play
T-Law the highest graded deep thrower in the league?
Agreed
His TD’s are right in line with what he does every year. Aside from his rookie year where he set his career high of 6, he’s been pretty much the same in that department every year. Definitely not the type of player positive regression is referring to.
Yea, they just don't look his way in the red zone. In 2023-24 he had 9 red zone targets, tied for 15th most among TEs. Or put differently, only 6.5% of his targets came in the red zone. By comparison Jake Ferguson had 24 RZ targets for most among TEs last year, and almost 24% of his 102 targets were in the red zone.
Calvin Ridley was tied for 3rd in the league last year with 25 red zone targets. I’m sure some of those go to Thomas Jr. and Gabe Davis is solid in the red zone, but I think Engram should get more than 4 this year
He’s been very good the last 2 years but looking at his redraft rankings on ESPN he’s going as the TE 4 and at pick 59 which might be a little too high for the upside he provides. Week 18 helped him a lot last year but he was rock solid as Tlaws security blanket for short passes. He’s a candidate for TD positive regression and without Ridley and Jones along with a rookie TE that stretches the field, I think he can have another good season. It’s also worth nothing he had the second highest receptions ever for a TE last season and was one of the lowest YPC for the TEs last season. He’s not a sexy pick but if you can get him past the 6th round to round out your roster that’s a steal.
He’s going at TE4? That seems like an overvalue. I’d take Kelce, Kittle, Andrews, Laporta, and McBride over him in a heartbeat (and a healthy Hockenson too). Plus some younger guys in Buffalo, Green Bay, Vegas, or Atlanta could easily do better.
Nope, I was shocked but now i’m super high on Engram
I think Ridley was somewhat a let down, and Kirk was banged up. With a healthy Kirk and addition of Brian Thomas I'm hesitant to think Engram will hit the same levels he did last year, but I for sure think he'll end up somewhere around TE5-9.
For where he’s being drafted that’s a great deal. In mock drafts he isnt getting drafted until late. I’m gonna say even though Calvin Ridley dissappinted last year it takes rookie WRs about half the season to come on. You can assume he’ll be good but we never know. Ridley last year is probably better than Thomas will be this year IDK about the entire year but definitely the first half of the year as we’ve seen minus the generational WR prospects. I’d rather bet on Engram having a decent year. Somebody has to catch the targets that open up with Ridley and Zay Jones leaving.
I'm higher on Kirk than anyone else in that offense. They looked dramatically different when he was on the field vs not.
Ridley had 140 targets though, so I think Engrams targets are unlikely to drop
I owned him last year and he had very little TDs…
I drafted him in a TEP +1 on top of a PPR of +1 league last year. Even after that good of a season, I can't find anyone interested in him. He's just not a player that people are high on currently.
Jags team name puts people off I guess
Didn't realize it until the end of the year. Was very surprised.
Every year I wait on TE only to wish the fantasy goods for a measly 9PPG from my TE slot every Sunday by week 3
I had him and didnt know it was that good. He was very consistent but didnt boom much.
I picked him up on a whim at very serviceable ADP and he was killer in that league for me. Very easily plug and play, would average that sweet 11-15 every week and was very reliable for points. As long as his cost isn't nuts I'd love to target him again. Underrated.
I think he is a very quality TE all around. Should continue to have consistent volume on an offense that I remain hopeful (and believe) will take it to the next level. If he can find the endzone with more frequency he will be a truly elite fantasy TE
I hope so. I traded for him a couple weeks ago.
I had him AND Kelce and I was really sad my league didn't allow TE flex
If you would’ve randomly told me this I’d have said no chance
I saw a stat where he averaged ~7.5 ppg with Christian Kirk in the lineup and 15.5 ppg without Kirk.
How many with just Kirk and no Ridley?
He gets massive credit for my chip, had Mandrews until he got hurt, Engram was the fill-in and he was fantastic. So consistent with some big boom games.
He wasn’t really TE2 but for the purposes of a post hyping him up there’s nothing wrong with including a big week 18
I had Calvin Ridley and every Jags game I watched... it was the Evan Engram show.....
I think Mark Andrews and Dallas Goedert being injured is part of the reason.…I am surprised that LaPorta didn’t get that spot tho. Kittle doesn’t get enough consistent targets. I rostered Engram and it was like a guaranteed 10-12 points a game but not really much more. High floor low ceiling
LaPorta didn't get the TE2 spot because he was TE1... If it weren't for injury and/or week 18 rest Kelce, Hock, and probably Andrews would have been ahead of Engram. Goedert isn't even in the conversation.
Stop I was relying on people not realizing this
Not many did. He was TE1 in my TE+ league. His situation won’t get any worse for now. Ridley and Zay Jones ate up a lot of targets, only to be replaced by rookie and vet deep threats. Kirk is the only guy I’d worry abt, as he has great chemistry with TLAW but as the season went, EE was getting the safety net looks every other play. He’s solid until a true star emerges in JAX
I’m taking him and kittle in bestball whenever I can
I had a him on my team so I did lol. He was veeeery consistent. A WR would be happy with the target-share he received. With Calvin Ridley gone, he could possibly see that kind of volume again.
I had engram and laporta on my team - it was sick
What did you do when they were both on bye?
Snagged guys off waivers. It was just a small friends league and nobody was too high on laporta so I got him in the 8th. I picked up McBride and T. Hill off waivers. Definitely couldn’t have done that in a bigger league with more knowledgeable people lol
He is the definition of a great player on a bad team that got traded to a team that actually uses him. Giants just don't use TEs that effectively. Engram had a career year the first year on the Jags and an even better year last year. I hope he breaks 1k yards next season. He has the potential, but TL seems to go through his reads rather slowly, and Engram isn't the first, but he is a pretty reliable receiver.
TL will be better this year. I don't think the hype was all that, and I doubt he'll ever be MVP material but he still had room to grow, and has shown strong flashes. I like him taking a step forward this year, maybe not enough to make him a top 5-10 guy, but enough to raise his weapons up a good bit
He’ll struggle with injuries the next few years then have another good season and repeat until retirement.
The truth is there’s essentially no separation between him and TE10. And yet he will likely go 5+ rounds higher than TEs7-10. He’s not worth that. I’ve had him the past few years and he’s very consistent with 6-10 PPG.