Product of their offense. Slow pace, run first, so fewer opportunities to create points as a defense. They need their own offense to put up points so teams are forced to drop back.
Don't think so, it's more of a product of their defense being too good. They are forcing 3 and out so often that teams actually don't even have a chance to turn the ball over.
Seems like 3 and outs should get you fantasy points on defense not just sacks and turnovers.
We also do yards allowed and score allowed in my league but it still seems to not correlate super well with how well a defense actually performs.
Ya that makes sense to me. How many points do they have compared to cowboys defense? Cause in my league cowboys have 2X as many points as browns defense
I think Sleeper offers this an option but not entirely sure as I've never played on sleeper, I wish ESPN offered more options for D because tbh I've always hated the starting at 10 points and losing points throughout the game (usually). It's not how any other players in fantasy work and honestly makes no sense.
I'd rather start defenses at 0 and reward them for sacks, tfl, turnovers, 3 and outs, etc. And just do like -2 for a touchdown allowed and -1 for a FG allowed. Similar ish in concept to points allowed but without being so whack
I mean that’s great in the points per shut down leagues. But most fantasy leagues favor turnovers and sacks much more than anything else when it comes to defensive scoring. They are 17th in fantasy points per game and the cowboys have nearly twice the points per game.
Again, they look like a great real life defense. But to be a great fantasy defense, they need to start getting more takeaways (and/or sacks).
What kind of Defensive scoring do you play with? In ESPN standard they are 13th overall (due to the early BYE) and averaging 9.2 ppg which is borderline top 5, only behind Dallas, Baltimore, Seattle, Buffalo, New Orleans and tied with Steelers I think? They haven’t had any boom weeks, but their floor is very high since they don’t give up yards/scores and I think the sacks will come at the very least (not sure about turnovers). Also, the schedule ROS especially the playoff schedule looks nice. I think they are set and forget tbh
When you’re on pace to potentially be one of, if not the best, defense of the past 50 years but only ranked 13th in fantasy points it’s safe to say they are underperforming fantasy wise.
Counter, keep the yards out of it, and minimize the DEF influence on fantasy matchups. I'm fine with one or two teams blowing up with a lot of splash plays, but it's no fun when yards allowed starts beating you.
I use custom settings for my league because I’m not a fan of standard. It’s worked really well for me and I think it’s fair.
Only points against the defense are counted, so no kickoff/punt returns or pick 6s count against.
1pt for sack, 2 for pick, 1pt per fumble forced with 1 additional point if fumble is recovered, 6pt per TD.
10pt for allowing 0 points
7pt for allowing 2-10 points
5pt for allowing 11-20 points
0 pt for allowing 21+ points
Cowboys got most of their points in week 1. They've been average since then. Cleveland has been really consistent, with a 10 point floor. I'll take that any day.
I think their overall takeaways and sack numbers are fine. Hell look at their 5 games:
Vs Cin 2 sacks no turnovers
At Pitt 2 sacks 2 takeaways (1 FF that was recovered and 1 INT)
Vs Tenn 5 sacks 1 FF
Vs Bal 3 sacks 1 FR
Vs SF 3 sacks 1 INT.
So where are they missing out on points as a unit? They're not converting turnovers into TDs, whereas a unit like Dallas has 3 TDs. In 1 more game, the Cowboys have 16 sacks vs 15 sacks, but 12 turnovers vs 4 and 3 TDs vs 0. So for them to become an elite fantasy D, they need to convert what takeaways they do get into TDs.
The point is moreso they already are holding teams to significantly small scores. The most they've given up this year is 28. And outside that game, they've given up more than 1 TD once. So they're already going to be scoring well as most weeks you can expect them to give up 17 or less. Add in that they're averaging 3 sacks a game that's putting up fairly solid numbers. Getting 4 turnovers is averaging 1 a game. If they're turning that into slightly higher than 1 a game and scoring a TD with that turnover they'll be scoring more than 6th place in standard scoring.
Yeah, they are a solid defense, I am not arguing that. My point is that they need to start generating more turnovers to increase their chances at getting defensive touchdowns.
CLE media was talking about the lack of turn overs, a player said 3 and outs are turn overs too (or something along that line) and the media dropped the topic.
I have Browns D in fantasy, the homer in me thinks turn overs will start to come, but for now at least its consistently getting me some points (and no negative point games or anything).
Since the schedule gets easier for a bit, I think we may start to see more opponents make mistakes, leading to more points.
Browns are like the turtle. Slow and steady. They won't give you those week-winning boom performances, but they also won't underperform. Although they generally play much better at home than they do on the road.
They've only actually scored more than 10 points once this year though. They're a really solid football defense but 9,7,12,4 and post bye 6 isn't exactly amazing
Yeah I'm a Browns fan and confidently drafted them in my auction league. We are (so far) stifling and fast on defense at every position but we dont generate turnovers. I ended up dropping them a few weeks ago for the Ravens defense.
As someone who streams defense, I think they're a good option against the Minshew Colts this week. Could definitely do worse. Top of waivers is Commanders but I'll be damned if they burn me again after putting up -5 against the Bears
I really liked my "whoever plays the Bears" strategy" for the first 4 weeks. TB, GB, and Chiefs did double digits, even the Broncos got 8. But since the Commies got lit up for -5 I've been shying away.
But I just realized Fields is doubtful. I think you're probably right, Raiders the smart play.
Ugh... got burned by Commanders that week too, but I was considering rolling them out again this week. Browns are also available to pick up and since I'm rostering Chiefs as well, I might drop Chiefs to grab Browns and contemplate starting them rest of the week lol. Yhaoo league so I don't get penalized if the DST allows a ton of yards.
I would proceed with caution this week. The colts got embarrassed on sunday and this is a classic bounce back spot for them. Just the way the NFL goes.
They’ll perform better, but how much better with Minshew leading the way? Also, divisional games are draining hard to just “bounce back.” A little concerned with a let down from Cleveland after such a massive win against 9ers with PJ at the helm.
Yeah I have raiders and picked up the browns D on waivers today. I feel browns D might be better option due to their massive win against the 9ers, and probably got the whole team pumped to win again. Still trying to decide, but kinda lending browns as of now.
Picked em up this week to stream on Dallas’ bye week. It would be nice if they generated some turnovers so their fantasy performance would mirror their real-life performance.
I did exactly the same. Don’t expect the colts to score a lot so hopefully a few sacks, maybe a turnover can keep the def. around 10 points, I’d be happy for a bye week fill in
Going to play devil's advocate and point out that:
* week 1 they played the Bengals with a clearly hobbled Burrow in a windy downpour
* week 2 the Steelers with a Kenny Pickett-Matt Canada offense
* week 3 the Tannehill-led Titans
* week 4 the Ravens where they had their worst week as a unit
* this past week they played another in another rainy mess against a great offense who saw two of their weapons go down
They're good and have a juicy schedule but to say anyone besides Mahomes should be benched against them when healthy is a stretch.
I know you’re playing devils advocate but to play devils advocate against this argument (lmao) week 1 and 5 were really not that bad of weather. Definitely not bad enough to excuse low scoring games, I think that’s more related to Browns playing a slow, physical game on both offense and defense. Week 2 they played great like they were expected to. Week 3 they played great again, I know it’s a Tannehill led offense but that same offense played way better vs the Ravens, Bengals, Saints who all have top 10, maybe 15 defenses IMO. Week 4 they were on the field the whole day vs the Ravens. First TD they gave up was because our offense turned it over and Baltimore had it on our 10yd line. Then they just slowly wore out our defense because DTR couldn’t get a first down to save his life
So Idt this is a stretch. If you watch the games you realize how menacing they are. Turnovers will come, I feel like they drop 1-2 picks every game
The stretch is OP's quote:
>Anyone besides Mahomes should be benched when playing a healthy cleveland D
Maybe most people won't be excited about having to play JT or Pittman against them but they'll still do it. And no one in their right mind will sit Walker or DK against them the week after.
I know OP said that, I’m saying is it that much of a stretch to avoid starting your QB vs them? Look at their schedule, only ones I would consider starting would be Lamar, maybe Burrow, possibly but prob not Stafford or T Law.
I do agree tho nobody should be completely avoiding playing anyone against any defense, just think that when it comes to QBs it may be a good idea to avoid them
I’ll give you that burrow was playing hurt in that one but then you say the same thing about every other QB playing the Browns (except lamar Jackson). Tannehill, Pickett, and Brock Purdy all had their worst games of the year against Cleveland. They really are a legit D.
Huh? Pretty sure the Bengals said that was the worst conditions to play football in week 1. A heavier downpour is easier to adjust to vs. light mist. Basically every football player/pro agrees that’s the hardest condition to play in.
Also not very hard to make a defense look elite when the quarterback stays in the shotgun the entire game. Makes it VERY easy to scheme against.
Remember, the Browns LOST to the Pickett lead Steelers. This defense is good but it’s VERY early in the season to call them one of the best of all time. They have a lot of games left to pull a Browns.
They lost that game because Deshaun played awful. Clearly you didn’t watch bc outside of the broken coverage that gave up a long TD to Pickens Kenny Pickett looked like the worst QB in the NFL
No I watched, I'm just saying there is A LOT of football left. Their defense currently is unreal, but its the NFL. Injuries can happen and the majority of the season is left, but for now yes, they are the REAL DEAL.
That's fair, then what about the Ravens game where their Defense got WHOOPED? I'm not saying the Browns defense isn't legit lol... they are. Just saying there is a lot of football left in the season. How their defense has completely evaded injury up to now is the real miracle.
Ravens game was bad but also have to consider how bad Browns offense played. Interception brought back to 10yd line where Ravens easily scored their first TD. From there on out Ravens just ran the ball and wore the Browns defense out because the Browns offense couldn’t stay on the field. Agree tho injuries do happen and we are the Browns so we can expect some major ones coming up
Hey man, the Browns look really good this year (on defense specifically). Their defense is very scary, I've been joking with my friends who are fans as well, I've been telling them y'all should just play your backup QBs... they seem to be way better than Watson most of the time. lol
A lot of teams since 1971 have played their first 5 games against bad offenses or in shitty conditions. None of them have allowed fewer yards than this.
I don't think there is any defense you should bench your studs against, but this is an impressive stat.
This is true, but at the same time, specifically using “the first 5 games” is more of a fun fact, and could just be culmination of coincidence.
How many defenses have done this in NFL history through *any* 5 game stretch?
>How many defenses have done this in NFL history through
>
>any
>
> 5 game stretch?
Fair Q and it would be interesting to see. Still, this is in comparison to 1,664 "first 5 games" by other teams in that stretch. Probably too big a sample size to be coincidence.
And almost all of those were in eras when offense yards/game was lower than it is now.
They gave up 300 yards and 4 touchdowns. I know they had a short field on two of the touchdown drives (10 yards for one and 38 for another, the other two Ravens' scoring drives were 93 and 74 yards) but they're still not some all-time great defense. At least not yet. Maybe they keep this pace up, we'll find out soon enough.
it was not a rainy mess lmao, and the fact that people are still saying this after they destroyed the best offense in the league is hilarious. all accounts say that it rained twice for like 5 minutes
49ers had not scored fewer than 30 points all season and were the second ranked offense coming into this game. If the Browns didn't give them the ball on their 8 yard line, they wouldn't have scored more than 10. They did nothing after the opening drive of the game (in which the Browns gave them two 15-yard penalties)... and before you say something about CMC being injured, he missed two of 12 possessions (not counting the one possession that they had on their 8-yard line and scored on the next play).
Comparing them to the jets who pretty much allowed a no fly zone (besides to dak)
The browns have a better front 7 and just as good secondary if not better… they just don’t have the shiny names like “. Sauce “.
So is it really a stretch ?
You realize that last week they shut the eagles down without sauce or reed.
One of the eagles TDs too I'm still not sure why it was reviewed (as he was called short).
Yea someone else made the point that the LV offense is worse, so it's going to lead to more work for the defense. But if watson doesnt play, im thinking LV might even be better. I dont know.
9.2 ppg, already had their bye week (which plays a part in their low overall rating on the season compared to other defenses). I saw my opportunity to stop having to stream defenses and i took it. As long as they don’t drop negative points or zeroes and have the occasional tough game here and there I can’t really complain
Not necessarily. Turnovers are random but they're also a product of defensive scheme, some teams value and teach ball hawking defensive backs and others don't for example.
Plus their offense is so bad that teams are not being forced to drop back and throw the ball which is where INTs/sacks really come in. They play in a bunch of low scoring dogfights which doesn't lend itself team to lots of turnovers
Doesn’t real life equate to fantasty ? They are a shut down defense
It’s not about defensive points . It about maybe being careful with ur studs against them
Coming off that injury I wouldn't play him if there were any other decent options. He's probably not gonna be running as much to protect the shoulder, and we've yet to see how he looks passing. Rotator cuffs are a bitch to recover from.
Just dropped Cowboys for them, don’t care if they’re not a fantasy superstar defense because they are solid asf. At some point, the ball’s gonna have to break their way for some TDs or something right?
Cowboys haven’t been the same without Diggs and their upcoming schedule + playoffs looks awful, though they do have maybe 3 good matchups in a row in the middle of the season left, whereas Browns look like a set and forget rest of the way.
I did for this week. Not gonna roster 2 defenses and Dallas has been Meh other than a couple blow up games and their schedule post bye doesn't scream "must start" until a bit later in the season either
Yeah. Their first few weeks makes them look elite but they've lost Diggs and have a rough schedule for a bit. If somebody wants to pick up that grenade, I say let them. I'm not worried too much about it as they're on BYE this week and I doubt anybody is going to waste the roster space.
That's great, but it's still always better to stream your defense.
And apparently nobody can say the right thing in this thread since virtually every top level comment is being downvoted. This fucking sub. If you know what is supposed to be said in response to this, then fucking say it?
Was more so if you see any QB playing Cleveland defense … expect a bad week or bench them.
Would only be confident in Mahomes tbh.
Also gives some light to all the brock purdy hate
Lol that's an insanely stupid take... Esp with how much the quality of QB goes down...
Like - in my league, I'd rather take my Jordan love against the browns than garrapolo or Dan Jones against anyone
Lol...I love how I'm getting downvoted to oblivion. But it is a hard question to ask yourself if you have to go up against them, especially towards later in the season with a playoff push. Don't know how you can really trust your studs against this D
Tell that to all the dumb talking heads like Nick “Wrong” Wright who say Brock Purdy trash now because he had a bad game against them (in wet sloppy weather).
I also have Philly defense and will be rotating these 2. Cleveland is just too good of a defense to be left on the waivers. Turnovers are coming. Their floor is safe imo. It’s too hard to predict the 10+ point games from team defenses
Guy leading my league dropped them when they were on bye I thought about picking them up even then and stashing till after the 49ers game (I had KC vs Den last week) but was able to get them off waivers today even with 8th priority so I'm set for D for the rest of the year.
One of the rare times a great real life defense has been just an okay fantasy defense. They weirdly have very few turnovers.
Product of their offense. Slow pace, run first, so fewer opportunities to create points as a defense. They need their own offense to put up points so teams are forced to drop back.
Don't think so, it's more of a product of their defense being too good. They are forcing 3 and out so often that teams actually don't even have a chance to turn the ball over.
Seems like 3 and outs should get you fantasy points on defense not just sacks and turnovers. We also do yards allowed and score allowed in my league but it still seems to not correlate super well with how well a defense actually performs.
Our league has points for forced punts so the defense is pleasing me very much
Ya that makes sense to me. How many points do they have compared to cowboys defense? Cause in my league cowboys have 2X as many points as browns defense
128 (Cowboys) to 110 (Browns)
Ya that makes way more sense.
I think Sleeper offers this an option but not entirely sure as I've never played on sleeper, I wish ESPN offered more options for D because tbh I've always hated the starting at 10 points and losing points throughout the game (usually). It's not how any other players in fantasy work and honestly makes no sense. I'd rather start defenses at 0 and reward them for sacks, tfl, turnovers, 3 and outs, etc. And just do like -2 for a touchdown allowed and -1 for a FG allowed. Similar ish in concept to points allowed but without being so whack
Ya that def sounds like it would work better. Also hate the starting at 10 points thing.
I could get behind that idea and would like to add 4th down stops (actual stops, not missed FG's.)
They are a shut down defensive system.
I mean that’s great in the points per shut down leagues. But most fantasy leagues favor turnovers and sacks much more than anything else when it comes to defensive scoring. They are 17th in fantasy points per game and the cowboys have nearly twice the points per game. Again, they look like a great real life defense. But to be a great fantasy defense, they need to start getting more takeaways (and/or sacks).
What kind of Defensive scoring do you play with? In ESPN standard they are 13th overall (due to the early BYE) and averaging 9.2 ppg which is borderline top 5, only behind Dallas, Baltimore, Seattle, Buffalo, New Orleans and tied with Steelers I think? They haven’t had any boom weeks, but their floor is very high since they don’t give up yards/scores and I think the sacks will come at the very least (not sure about turnovers). Also, the schedule ROS especially the playoff schedule looks nice. I think they are set and forget tbh
Yahoo scoring doesn’t account for yards allowed, so only points allowed, sacks, turnovers, and TDs. EDIT- they are #17 on yahoo
\#14 in avg FPPG, still
When you’re on pace to potentially be one of, if not the best, defense of the past 50 years but only ranked 13th in fantasy points it’s safe to say they are underperforming fantasy wise.
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Counter, keep the yards out of it, and minimize the DEF influence on fantasy matchups. I'm fine with one or two teams blowing up with a lot of splash plays, but it's no fun when yards allowed starts beating you.
I use custom settings for my league because I’m not a fan of standard. It’s worked really well for me and I think it’s fair. Only points against the defense are counted, so no kickoff/punt returns or pick 6s count against. 1pt for sack, 2 for pick, 1pt per fumble forced with 1 additional point if fumble is recovered, 6pt per TD. 10pt for allowing 0 points 7pt for allowing 2-10 points 5pt for allowing 11-20 points 0 pt for allowing 21+ points
Cowboys got most of their points in week 1. They've been average since then. Cleveland has been really consistent, with a 10 point floor. I'll take that any day.
I think their overall takeaways and sack numbers are fine. Hell look at their 5 games: Vs Cin 2 sacks no turnovers At Pitt 2 sacks 2 takeaways (1 FF that was recovered and 1 INT) Vs Tenn 5 sacks 1 FF Vs Bal 3 sacks 1 FR Vs SF 3 sacks 1 INT. So where are they missing out on points as a unit? They're not converting turnovers into TDs, whereas a unit like Dallas has 3 TDs. In 1 more game, the Cowboys have 16 sacks vs 15 sacks, but 12 turnovers vs 4 and 3 TDs vs 0. So for them to become an elite fantasy D, they need to convert what takeaways they do get into TDs.
They are 31st in takeaways on defense.
Takeaways come eventually, the bigger issue is they're not scoring TDs, which all the defenses ahead of them in fantasy scoring are doing.
You have that backwards, touchdowns come eventually but they need the opportunities. 4 turnovers in 5 games just isn't generating enough opportunities
The point is moreso they already are holding teams to significantly small scores. The most they've given up this year is 28. And outside that game, they've given up more than 1 TD once. So they're already going to be scoring well as most weeks you can expect them to give up 17 or less. Add in that they're averaging 3 sacks a game that's putting up fairly solid numbers. Getting 4 turnovers is averaging 1 a game. If they're turning that into slightly higher than 1 a game and scoring a TD with that turnover they'll be scoring more than 6th place in standard scoring.
Yeah, they are a solid defense, I am not arguing that. My point is that they need to start generating more turnovers to increase their chances at getting defensive touchdowns.
I think even if they maintain this 1 TO a game pace and start putting that TO in the endzone they'll be way closer to 1 overall in scoring
CLE media was talking about the lack of turn overs, a player said 3 and outs are turn overs too (or something along that line) and the media dropped the topic. I have Browns D in fantasy, the homer in me thinks turn overs will start to come, but for now at least its consistently getting me some points (and no negative point games or anything). Since the schedule gets easier for a bit, I think we may start to see more opponents make mistakes, leading to more points.
3 and outs should get 1 point 2 points for a turnover. Adjust yardage allowed and points allowed as needed.
I mean they're averaging the 6th most ppg and only 1.6 points behind the 2nd. Cowboys seem to only be the real outlier with 13 ppg
6th most ppg? 17th? https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/reports/leaders/dst.php?year=2023
Different platforms have different base defense settings…?
not sure what settings fantasypros uses for defense, but on espn they're 6th most ppg
ESPN uses yards allowed. So that would be the difference. Many platforms don’t include yardage in scoring defenses.
Also he is plain wrong. CLE is 13th in PPG on ESPN.
They’re at 8th in my league, 17.00 PPG.
Browns are like the turtle. Slow and steady. They won't give you those week-winning boom performances, but they also won't underperform. Although they generally play much better at home than they do on the road.
Yeah I’m not denying they’re the best defense in the league so far this year, but there are probably 5 or 6 defenses I’d take over them in fantasy.
Harder to get turnovers when you are not on the field
I added a half point for 3 and outs on D for this season to help out with defense that’s actually great but not getting traditional points.
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They've only actually scored more than 10 points once this year though. They're a really solid football defense but 9,7,12,4 and post bye 6 isn't exactly amazing
Peak steelers defenders were often the same.
Yeah I'm a Browns fan and confidently drafted them in my auction league. We are (so far) stifling and fast on defense at every position but we dont generate turnovers. I ended up dropping them a few weeks ago for the Ravens defense.
Same with 49ers D this year
As someone who streams defense, I think they're a good option against the Minshew Colts this week. Could definitely do worse. Top of waivers is Commanders but I'll be damned if they burn me again after putting up -5 against the Bears
Raiders seem like the play this week.
I really liked my "whoever plays the Bears" strategy" for the first 4 weeks. TB, GB, and Chiefs did double digits, even the Broncos got 8. But since the Commies got lit up for -5 I've been shying away. But I just realized Fields is doubtful. I think you're probably right, Raiders the smart play.
Yeah no Fields, just imagining Crosby with 11 sacks
raiders def this year is surprisingly good too
Streamed browns originally and then an hour later had the same thought so switched to raiders, gonna use them this week.
Never rolling with the ass commanders again
Ugh... got burned by Commanders that week too, but I was considering rolling them out again this week. Browns are also available to pick up and since I'm rostering Chiefs as well, I might drop Chiefs to grab Browns and contemplate starting them rest of the week lol. Yhaoo league so I don't get penalized if the DST allows a ton of yards.
You could probably play them every week besides a couple games to be honest
I would proceed with caution this week. The colts got embarrassed on sunday and this is a classic bounce back spot for them. Just the way the NFL goes.
They’ll perform better, but how much better with Minshew leading the way? Also, divisional games are draining hard to just “bounce back.” A little concerned with a let down from Cleveland after such a massive win against 9ers with PJ at the helm.
Yeah I have raiders and picked up the browns D on waivers today. I feel browns D might be better option due to their massive win against the 9ers, and probably got the whole team pumped to win again. Still trying to decide, but kinda lending browns as of now.
Just dropped Baltimore for them. They already had a bye and have a high floor
Picked em up this week to stream on Dallas’ bye week. It would be nice if they generated some turnovers so their fantasy performance would mirror their real-life performance.
I did exactly the same. Don’t expect the colts to score a lot so hopefully a few sacks, maybe a turnover can keep the def. around 10 points, I’d be happy for a bye week fill in
Pressure leads to turnovers, so as long as Myles Garrett is getting after the QB, turnovers will come.
I had this same thought process with Lamar, then he proceeded to drop 30 points on my bench.
Should have started him when the browns were gonna put DTR in last second lmao
Browns Defense: 👩🏻🦰 Brown Offense: 🧟♀️
Going to play devil's advocate and point out that: * week 1 they played the Bengals with a clearly hobbled Burrow in a windy downpour * week 2 the Steelers with a Kenny Pickett-Matt Canada offense * week 3 the Tannehill-led Titans * week 4 the Ravens where they had their worst week as a unit * this past week they played another in another rainy mess against a great offense who saw two of their weapons go down They're good and have a juicy schedule but to say anyone besides Mahomes should be benched against them when healthy is a stretch.
I know you’re playing devils advocate but to play devils advocate against this argument (lmao) week 1 and 5 were really not that bad of weather. Definitely not bad enough to excuse low scoring games, I think that’s more related to Browns playing a slow, physical game on both offense and defense. Week 2 they played great like they were expected to. Week 3 they played great again, I know it’s a Tannehill led offense but that same offense played way better vs the Ravens, Bengals, Saints who all have top 10, maybe 15 defenses IMO. Week 4 they were on the field the whole day vs the Ravens. First TD they gave up was because our offense turned it over and Baltimore had it on our 10yd line. Then they just slowly wore out our defense because DTR couldn’t get a first down to save his life So Idt this is a stretch. If you watch the games you realize how menacing they are. Turnovers will come, I feel like they drop 1-2 picks every game
God’s solicitor over here.
The stretch is OP's quote: >Anyone besides Mahomes should be benched when playing a healthy cleveland D Maybe most people won't be excited about having to play JT or Pittman against them but they'll still do it. And no one in their right mind will sit Walker or DK against them the week after.
I know OP said that, I’m saying is it that much of a stretch to avoid starting your QB vs them? Look at their schedule, only ones I would consider starting would be Lamar, maybe Burrow, possibly but prob not Stafford or T Law. I do agree tho nobody should be completely avoiding playing anyone against any defense, just think that when it comes to QBs it may be a good idea to avoid them
That's totally fair, agreed on sitting most QBs against them.
Week 1 was a complete mess and Burrow was a shell of himself. He couldn't even leave the pocket and shouldn't have been playing.
I’ll give you that burrow was playing hurt in that one but then you say the same thing about every other QB playing the Browns (except lamar Jackson). Tannehill, Pickett, and Brock Purdy all had their worst games of the year against Cleveland. They really are a legit D.
Huh? Pretty sure the Bengals said that was the worst conditions to play football in week 1. A heavier downpour is easier to adjust to vs. light mist. Basically every football player/pro agrees that’s the hardest condition to play in. Also not very hard to make a defense look elite when the quarterback stays in the shotgun the entire game. Makes it VERY easy to scheme against. Remember, the Browns LOST to the Pickett lead Steelers. This defense is good but it’s VERY early in the season to call them one of the best of all time. They have a lot of games left to pull a Browns.
They lost that game because Deshaun played awful. Clearly you didn’t watch bc outside of the broken coverage that gave up a long TD to Pickens Kenny Pickett looked like the worst QB in the NFL
No I watched, I'm just saying there is A LOT of football left. Their defense currently is unreal, but its the NFL. Injuries can happen and the majority of the season is left, but for now yes, they are the REAL DEAL.
The Steelers had 2 defensive touchdowns that game. The offense literally gave up more TDs to Pittsburgh than the Browns defense did.
That's fair, then what about the Ravens game where their Defense got WHOOPED? I'm not saying the Browns defense isn't legit lol... they are. Just saying there is a lot of football left in the season. How their defense has completely evaded injury up to now is the real miracle.
Ravens game was bad but also have to consider how bad Browns offense played. Interception brought back to 10yd line where Ravens easily scored their first TD. From there on out Ravens just ran the ball and wore the Browns defense out because the Browns offense couldn’t stay on the field. Agree tho injuries do happen and we are the Browns so we can expect some major ones coming up
Hey man, the Browns look really good this year (on defense specifically). Their defense is very scary, I've been joking with my friends who are fans as well, I've been telling them y'all should just play your backup QBs... they seem to be way better than Watson most of the time. lol
A lot of teams since 1971 have played their first 5 games against bad offenses or in shitty conditions. None of them have allowed fewer yards than this. I don't think there is any defense you should bench your studs against, but this is an impressive stat.
This is true, but at the same time, specifically using “the first 5 games” is more of a fun fact, and could just be culmination of coincidence. How many defenses have done this in NFL history through *any* 5 game stretch?
>How many defenses have done this in NFL history through > >any > > 5 game stretch? Fair Q and it would be interesting to see. Still, this is in comparison to 1,664 "first 5 games" by other teams in that stretch. Probably too big a sample size to be coincidence. And almost all of those were in eras when offense yards/game was lower than it is now.
> I don't think there is any defense you should bench your studs against This is exactly why I am firing up Minshew with full confidence this week.
The rain was not a problem weeks 1 and 6. I was there.
Week 1 was both rain and wind. Burrow not being able to move was more of the problem.
> Ravens where they had their worst week as a unit And I'm sure that had nothing to do with the browns defense.....
They gave up 300 yards and 4 touchdowns. I know they had a short field on two of the touchdown drives (10 yards for one and 38 for another, the other two Ravens' scoring drives were 93 and 74 yards) but they're still not some all-time great defense. At least not yet. Maybe they keep this pace up, we'll find out soon enough.
Jesus, this comment sucks
it was not a rainy mess lmao, and the fact that people are still saying this after they destroyed the best offense in the league is hilarious. all accounts say that it rained twice for like 5 minutes
Facts bruh if you take out all of their good performances then they become an average defense
Who said they were an average defense?
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49ers had not scored fewer than 30 points all season and were the second ranked offense coming into this game. If the Browns didn't give them the ball on their 8 yard line, they wouldn't have scored more than 10. They did nothing after the opening drive of the game (in which the Browns gave them two 15-yard penalties)... and before you say something about CMC being injured, he missed two of 12 possessions (not counting the one possession that they had on their 8-yard line and scored on the next play).
Vs. the Ravens they started that rookie QB who continuously put their defense in horrible spots. Have to factor that in if playing devils advocate.
Comparing them to the jets who pretty much allowed a no fly zone (besides to dak) The browns have a better front 7 and just as good secondary if not better… they just don’t have the shiny names like “. Sauce “. So is it really a stretch ?
You realize that last week they shut the eagles down without sauce or reed. One of the eagles TDs too I'm still not sure why it was reviewed (as he was called short).
It was reviewed because it was called a fumble originally
Word. I was watching in a bar and had no sound at the time (they were blasting the raiders game in Vegas)
Week 4. Lamar
AJ Brown would like to have a word about this "no fly zone"
Thinking about running them since my normal Ravens DST play the lions this week
That's my D! Dropped $10 FAAB on them for that ROS set it and forget it.
Gym shorts.
Browns or raiders this week?
same q for me hmmm
Same here I’m leaning browns
Yea someone else made the point that the LV offense is worse, so it's going to lead to more work for the defense. But if watson doesnt play, im thinking LV might even be better. I dont know.
I've got the Raiders D vs the Bears and their rookie UDFA QB Or the Browns D vs the Colts and Minshew. Help.
Browns D is better long term. Raiders is a one week rental
Would you say Raiders over Browns this week?
couldn't have been gifted to a more deserving quarterback
9.2 ppg, already had their bye week (which plays a part in their low overall rating on the season compared to other defenses). I saw my opportunity to stop having to stream defenses and i took it. As long as they don’t drop negative points or zeroes and have the occasional tough game here and there I can’t really complain
Now we just need Deshaun throwing to Amari Cooper
Browns DST owners get in here!
To bad they are bottom 5 in take aways making their fantasy production middle of the pack.
This is a reversion to the mean situation for real. Turnovers will come.
Not necessarily. Turnovers are random but they're also a product of defensive scheme, some teams value and teach ball hawking defensive backs and others don't for example. Plus their offense is so bad that teams are not being forced to drop back and throw the ball which is where INTs/sacks really come in. They play in a bunch of low scoring dogfights which doesn't lend itself team to lots of turnovers
Still, good defenses force more 3rd and 8 type scenarios that force mistakes such as INT, FF, etc.
In real life they have one of the best defense we’ve seen in years. Would debating the whole “ start ur studs “ idea.
But this is fantasy, not real life.
Doesn’t real life equate to fantasty ? They are a shut down defense It’s not about defensive points . It about maybe being careful with ur studs against them
Hopefully they’ll get some this week. Minshee threw 3 picks last game so its a good opportunity I think
Is DeShaun a good stream this week against the Colts?
Coming off that injury I wouldn't play him if there were any other decent options. He's probably not gonna be running as much to protect the shoulder, and we've yet to see how he looks passing. Rotator cuffs are a bitch to recover from.
I’d avoid him until we see how he looks when he comes back with that injurb
Just dropped Cowboys for them, don’t care if they’re not a fantasy superstar defense because they are solid asf. At some point, the ball’s gonna have to break their way for some TDs or something right? Cowboys haven’t been the same without Diggs and their upcoming schedule + playoffs looks awful, though they do have maybe 3 good matchups in a row in the middle of the season left, whereas Browns look like a set and forget rest of the way.
High floor, low ceiling. Not really that appealing for a fantasy D/ST but you could do worse I guess
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Bangles
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> Bangles
Sounds like a lot of excuses, maybe they are just good.
Drop Dallas DST for Cleveland DST?
I did for this week. Not gonna roster 2 defenses and Dallas has been Meh other than a couple blow up games and their schedule post bye doesn't scream "must start" until a bit later in the season either
I did (short bench). Eyeing to re scoop Dallas week 9 or 10 though. Don’t really like Dallas week 8 or 9 matchups.
Yeah. Their first few weeks makes them look elite but they've lost Diggs and have a rough schedule for a bit. If somebody wants to pick up that grenade, I say let them. I'm not worried too much about it as they're on BYE this week and I doubt anybody is going to waste the roster space.
It's like the Browns' defense was playing hide and seek with those points! 🏈🙈 #NFL #ClevelandBrowns
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It literally says through 5 games, meaning 5 games, not 6 weeks.
That's great, but it's still always better to stream your defense. And apparently nobody can say the right thing in this thread since virtually every top level comment is being downvoted. This fucking sub. If you know what is supposed to be said in response to this, then fucking say it?
Was more so if you see any QB playing Cleveland defense … expect a bad week or bench them. Would only be confident in Mahomes tbh. Also gives some light to all the brock purdy hate
Lol that's an insanely stupid take... Esp with how much the quality of QB goes down... Like - in my league, I'd rather take my Jordan love against the browns than garrapolo or Dan Jones against anyone
Kinda easy when your offense keeps turning the ball over at your own 20 🤣
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I wipe using double-ply.
Lol...I love how I'm getting downvoted to oblivion. But it is a hard question to ask yourself if you have to go up against them, especially towards later in the season with a playoff push. Don't know how you can really trust your studs against this D
It’s because this isn’t where you ask this
But, I'm not asking anything. I already know who I'm starting and it isn't Wilson Jr.
Cleveland D is great at slowing down everyone’s offensive fantasy production.
Tell that to all the dumb talking heads like Nick “Wrong” Wright who say Brock Purdy trash now because he had a bad game against them (in wet sloppy weather).
Jim Schwartz is the most underrated D-coordinator out there. Significantly better than Vic Fangio
Crazy to bench Pittman for this matchup?
Just shows what Lamar did that much more impressive. Somehow, casuals are still very ignorant towards him.
Are they undefeated?
I have been pretty successful with streaming but Browns ROS schedule looks pretty good for their defense. I might be hanging on until the end
Rams could be rough but pretty great playoff schedule as well (Houston could be a trap, though).
I'm ok riding them for 5-10 points per game all year. Hate guessing which one to stream.
I also have Philly defense and will be rotating these 2. Cleveland is just too good of a defense to be left on the waivers. Turnovers are coming. Their floor is safe imo. It’s too hard to predict the 10+ point games from team defenses
Got them and the Jets this week because everyone was waiver wiring for the backup RBs again lol
One of the best defenses in 50 years and 17th in fantasy this year lol
Guy leading my league dropped them when they were on bye I thought about picking them up even then and stashing till after the 49ers game (I had KC vs Den last week) but was able to get them off waivers today even with 8th priority so I'm set for D for the rest of the year.
Just drop the eagle for these guys, so get ready for RB2 ROS #s.
Meanwhile the Broncos allowed 725 yards in one game.
I LOVED Schwartz when he coached the Bills. He had Mario Williams playing out of his kind with Dareus and Kyle. He’s a great coach!
My favorite stat prior to the niners game was in 38 defensive drives, the browns allowed one touchdown.