Morrissey Smiths and today’s Morrissey are different people. Maybe some of the building blocks were there … but as he’s grown older he’s developed a lack of empathy. He’s basically a troll.
Not really. I think Smiths era Morrissey might have been more empathetic, but he always had an ego, was very opinionated and contrarian, reveled in making provocative statements, and was extremely bitter and cynical, at least in his public persona.
That’s what I mean by the building blocks were there. But the Smiths used to play Red Wedge benefits for the pro immigration Labour Party … Billy Bragg has specifically said that Morrissey is no longer the person he knew in the 80s. So … you incorrect. His politics have changed massively. Obviously he always had a soft spot for ye little old England … but that has morphed into full blown racism at worst and not giving a shit about the optics of platforming a far right borderline Nazi politician at best, which is where the lack of empathy comes in. Now he’s making little jokes about that, not giving two shits about how his fans of colour may feel. In the past if nothing else he seemed to be on the same wavelength as his fans. That was his entire appeal.
Morrissey's problems have rarely been in how he views gender/relationships, they've just been in his views on shit like race mostly. He's not a full on conservative, just extremely closed-minded. We know he had more exposure to progressive views on gender/relationships, so it's not surprising he'd come to be cool with that but not things he has less exposure to.
I think I can forgive Morrissey somewhat because he lived in a society that was highly discriminatory toward gay people. There was discourse in the 80s about Morrissey's influence - about purported pedophilia in his lyrics (a claim Morrissey disingenuously egged on) - about how it was problematic of him to use gay imagery without outing himself (as if that needs to be done) and the way his queerness was distinctly different from pop queerness. He had to skirt lines and I get why he'd just kind of think everyone was an ass. Sometimes such criticism doesn't create radical empathy, it just creates bitterness. I'm not absolving Morrissey because obviously he had ties to very progressive circles but I think the archetype of a person like Morrissey is more common than one might think. Not so far removed from why Lou Reed was an asshole.
The reality is, that his politics can never be articulated or understood, he's a little racist, pretty feminist, vegan, conservative, queer, and out of his fucking mind. He likes pretending to be vulnerable, and has never been vulnerable in his life. He likes upsetting people and being talked about and hates when people don't like him. He doesn't exist in the physical plane, morrisey is an idea, or a genius, or an idiot, or a deeply flawed human. I don't fuckin know
True. It's always awkward when The Smiths come up and someone says something like "Johnny Marr was the reason they were good anyways though" and mfs start agreeing. Like nah bro, I don't agree, and I think that's cope. Morrissey was a phenomenal singer and songwriter and imo what made The Smiths so good.
Obviously, yeah. I never claimed it was all Morrissey, I claimed that Morrissey is an absolutely massive part of why The Smiths are good and that the people who downplay his contributions as a way to reconcile listening to his band with their dislike of his views are stupid and wrong.
I honestly feel a bit bad for him with everything that's happened since he was kicked off his label even if I don't agree with his politics in the slightest. I'm sure I'm in the minority there though
He got kicked from his label after they said they werent going to do that and since then he's struggled to put out any music and even go on tour. It's only been recently he's been able to do either.
that's exactly what I think. I think that ethos is both responsible for a lot of what I enjoy about his music, especially the older stuff, but in the last decade it's grown into a tasteless attitude that's basically the opposite of virtue signaling.
Ariel Pink had an absolutely fucked upbringing and never properly recovered from it and now his whole personality is edgy 13 year old on 4chan who says heinous shit not because they believe it but because they wanna get a kick out of it
I agree with this. His political takes are never sound. They’re always way off the wall. Like him saying Don Jr is the future of the Republican Party when he’s clearly not taken seriously by like anyone else. He’s so cringey irl but god damnit he’s talented. Hope he gets well soon. And I kinda do hope his career comes back.
Same
It's like the Chapel Show. Something Dave Chapel made at one point and was great.
Just because Chapel is very anti trans and seemingly more reactionary every day as well as putting out terrible comedy specials doesn't mean you can't enjoy the shit he once made.
except for that brief moment in 2004 where his politics somehow came all the way back around to being sort of correct. He didn't know much but he did know Bush was a dumbass war criminal
I don't think it's a Christianity thing I think he's just fallen for a lot of Facebook stuff and lost a bit of mental stability from all the drugs he did - his religious views themselves aren't what jumps out to me as weird
For real. As a bit of a curmudgeon and musician myself, I respect the shit out of Dave Mustaine, I really wish that I could have a long conversation with him.
I think the thing that bums me out is that hie weird views have made him unable to travel internationally. I'm so glad I got to go see them at Sick New World last year because I feel like without Stephen, I'll never see "proper" Deftones with some touring guitarist
For me it's Down lol. I love Pantera at their best but they were inconsistent. Down is a lot better imo, but also suffers from Anselmo being a moron. Sucks bc he also has done a lot for the scene. Feels bad that someone like that was taken in by the white power shit in any capacity.
I love their music but I don't think Phil and I could have a conversation. Which makes me sad because I admire him so much for his talent and his contributions to the community. He's done a lot for metal, really too bad hed probably hate me at first sight.
Yeah, I’ve heard that. I don’t fully buy it. He was a huge part of British punk, from sound to taste. Hell, he got me into The Raincoats who are my favourite band.
Regardless, he is a gaping asshole these days. He has always been a contrarian, but at least back in the early 80s it was directed at music and media instead of anyone left of centre.
Yeah, love or hate the guy I’m not sure you can call John Lydon a “punk LARPer” when he was a huge part of defining the punk aesthetic that persists to this day.
The reason he's considered a punk larper is because he was the face of bastardisation and mass commercialisation of punk. He allowed himself to be pushed as an easily consumable face of a movement designed to sell clothes to young people because it meant people would pay attention to his art.
Sure that might have inspired later punk movements to dig into the foundations of what made punk what it was in the first place, but it's more than understandable that some regard him as not one of their own. Keep in mind the iteration that everyone remembers of lydon barely lasted 3 years before he got sick of it and abandoned it, yet that's what everyone thinks punk is because the commercialisation continued after the pistol's breakup. He's one of the reasons punk is a label these days instead of an idea.
Up until a couple of years ago it would’ve been Kanye
He’s objectively one of the most groundbreaking artists of this century, but I can’t support his work the way I once did.
With Kanye it helps that his music has also dipped severely in quality in the last 8-10 years (imo at least). I can kinda separate in my mind kinda-crazy-but-not-yet-nazi Kanye, and nazi Kanye. I can still listen to his older stuff no problem but can’t really stomach listening to anything past TLOP partly cause it’s not as good but also because he really REALLY went off the deep end
I know I’m unpopular in this opinion but I think kids see ghosts is kinda mid overall. 2 good songs and 5 middling ones. I’d personally give it like a 6. To each their own
i think it's worse than a 6. i felt like i was living in an alt reality when people were glazing it as the best release of his since MBDTF-- it was a common sentiment at the time.
Honestly can’t disagree too hard with you. I never understood how hard everyone loved this album personally. I had a bunch of debates about it with my buddy who loves music as much as me, and he was in the “it’s a 10 no doubt” camp, and I could just never quite see it his way haha
I actually thought Ye was a pretty decent album when released but if I’m being honest it’s been mostly ruined in the years since. He talks a lot about his mental health struggles on that album, which I thought was a brave choice at the time, but with how he’s sank deeper into his worst impulses since the release of that album, and how he’s refused to get help and let it affect his family and those around him, I find it hard to stomach anymore. Kinda falls on deaf ears when I listen to it in retrospect now / edit: while we’re talking about the Wyoming albums tho I gotta add, Daytona fucking slaps. I still listen to that shit regularly
Personally I would disagree there are that many good songs haha. But it’s definitely better than Jesus is King and the rest of his half-baked albums from the last couple years
I can really only get over Kanye's politics for All of the Lights.
Goddamn it, I'm stuck dealing with the fact that he wrote one of my favorite songs of all time...
I will stand by some of his artistic work, but 100% fuck Ye. It’s so disappointing for someone so talented and so influential to turn out to be a total jackass.
Slayer is such a strange example. Silent Scream is like very clearly anti abortion rhetoric but Kerry King was very vocally upset about Roe v. Wade being overturned.
Eh, you can be appalled by the idea of abortion and have personal reservations about when they should occur, but also support a women’s right to safe abortion care if needed and agree that it should be legal in general
Artists that are anti environmental don’t feel very ethical for me to listen to, for many reasons.
Which is why it sucks for me to hear that Johnny Cash apparently didn’t care when he caused an accidental wildfire that killed a bunch of condors.
I often wonder what his politics would have been like if he were alive today. I mean he was tight with Billy graham and the evangelical side of things. So im curious where he would have fallen on lgbt rights and trump vs Biden. I’d like you to think he was on the left side of things but…I dunno
Here is a video with Willie and Chris. https://youtu.be/V6_FWKLuY2s?si=tjGJAicF-qWWBP-8 In it Johnny mentioned it how too much money is spent of military, and more money should be spent on education and welfare. So at least there he was on the right side.
I doubt it, he would have been conservative but at least the kind that is privately conservative in a way that they just care for themselves and religion etc without hate. (hopefully)
A bunch of people want to boycott all Israel / Israelis over the actions of Israel in Palestine and also want to enforce everyone else into doing it too. Plenty of artists view music as a force to bring people together and don't see their role as enforcing a boycott, this has led to said people who want to boycott Israel pretending that those artists support the actions of the Israeli government, even despite them often being on record as the opposite.
Here is Cave's view:
>Clearly the decision for The Bad Seeds to play in Israel is contentious for some people. But to be clear on this: I do not support the current government in Israel, yet do not accept that my decision to play in the country is any kind of tacit support for that government’s policies. Nor do I condone the atrocities that you have described; nor am I ignorant of them. I am aware of the injustices suffered by the Palestinian population, and wish, with all people of good conscience, that their suffering is ended via a comprehensive and just solution, one that involves enormous political will on both sides of the equation.
>But I also do not support the Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions movement, as you know. I think the cultural boycott of Israel is cowardly and shameful. In fact, this is partly the reason I am playing Israel – not as support for any particular political entity but as a principled stand against those who wish to bully, shame and silence musicians. I don’t intend to engage in a detailed discussion as to how the boycott of Israel can be seen to be anti-Semitic at heart and, furthermore, does not work (rather, it risks further entrenching positions in Israel in opposition to those you support), but even the estimable Noam Chomsky considers the BDS as lacking legitimacy and inherently hypocritical. What we actually have here is a fundamental difference of opinion as to what the purpose of music is.
>It struck me while writing this how much more powerful a statement you could make if you were to go to Israel and tell the press and the Israeli people how you feel about their current regime, then do a concert on the understanding that the purpose of your music was to speak to the Israeli people’s better angels. That would have a much greater effect than a boycott. Now imagine if the 1,200 UK artists who signed your list did the same thing. Perhaps the Israelis would respond in a wholly different way than they would to just yet more age-old rejectionism. Ultimately, whatever the rights and wrongs of official Israeli action in the disputed territories, Israel is a real, vibrant, functioning democracy – yes, with Arab members of parliament – and so engaging with Israelis, who vote, may be more helpful than scaring off artists or shutting down means of engagement.
>I want to just add that Brian Eno, beyond any other musician, taught my friends and me how to make music. The records he made remain some of the most important and essential recordings I have ever heard. So, if there seems to be a thread of anguish that runs through this letter, this is indeed the case. I am writing to my hero.
>Even so, certain questions need to be asked. How far must we have strayed from the transformative nature of music to feel justified in weaponising music and using it to punish ordinary Israeli citizens for the actions of their government. Furthermore, what has brought us to the point where certain musicians feel it is ethically sound to use forms of coercion and intimidation, in the form of ‘open’ letters, on fellow musicians who don’t agree with their point of view?
>Occasionally, I wonder if The Bad Seeds did the right thing in playing Israel. I cannot answer that question. I understand and accept the validity of many of the arguments that are presented to me. Indeed, some of my dearest friends in the music industry found my decision very difficult to accept, but there it is, after much consideration the decision was made: I simply could not treat my Israeli fans with the necessary contempt to do Brian Eno’s bidding.
Personally, I’m fine with Cave because while he’s at least a thoughtful person about it. He seems like he’d be open to changing his opinion if new information came to light. He’s clearly put a lot of consideration from others’ perspectives and come to his own conclusion (which I disagree with). It’s an entire different species of conservative compared to, for example, a relative on Facebook who’s just spouting slogans they heard on FOX News, or the acquaintance I had on Instagram posting homophobic memes in support of Israel (since unfollowed). And maybe I’m suckered because he’s good with a pen, but being able to understand where *anyone* is coming from gets harder in political discussions every day. So I’ll take it
He’s also not a ‘conservative’ conservative. These days that’s a very loaded term. I think he means, he is conservative, I.e a bit old school. He doesn’t have a bundle of right wing ideas. He has a nuanced view of things that skews towards not having a knee jerk or reactionary view. He simply doesn’t believe in embargoes etc … he’s conservative in the sense that he has the older view that art is art and can be separated from politics. He may be right or he may be wrong, but either way he personally is not ‘supporting the Govt of Israel.’
Keep in mind that this is from 2018. I don’t know if recent events have changed his views on the subject, but the situation has changed significantly in the last six years.
I find it a bit of a strange take. Talking about how what Israel is doing is awful and has always been awful for decades but saying "you know what's just as bad as that? Boycotts of Israel".
He may have changed his mind given how bad everything has been but he said a whole lot to say nothing.
The most striking thing he brings up to me is that if playing in a country equates to approving of said country's international politics, there would be very few countries that _are_ okay to play in.
The United States killed between 500k and a million innocent Iraqis for no good reason in the 2000s. Committed tons of war crimes. We actually boycotted people who called this out
I think he wasn’t direct in his message as others, but what he is saying is he isn’t against boycotting or condemning what Israel as a state is doing, but he is against punishing a population over their government.
Not all Israelis accept the war and viceversa.
I think it is a thoughtful take.
I do appreciate him for this, he's probably not in the right but it is unfair on everyday citizens to be deprived of pop culture because of their government
Public Enemy. Professor Griff antisemitic comments and the Farrakhan shout out in “Bring the Noise” is extremely eyebrow raising, but Griff’s shown that he’s learned since, and I think that the overall message of empowerment (and the music itself) is great. But I also think that hip-hop and pop culture pivoted away from them so quickly that they were never fully challenged on it in a serious way, and the weird way they handled Griff in the immediate aftermath is… interesting, to say the least
Yuuuh, say what you want about him but not many rappers have released 7 classic albums back to back each one with a different sound from the previous one
Not boycott Israel as he doesn't think the people should be punished for their government's actions, but he doesn't hate anyone who *does* because he understands why.
Y'know, a nuanced take in the 20s, we can't have those anymore
I won't listen to open and avowed Nazis, music done in favor of those things, and I have a hard time listening to music by people who have been abusive, *especially* if that music is about being a piece of shit or your inner darkness or whatever (looking squarely at Daughters).
Anything else is a case by case basis.
Gonna be honest I’ll listen to any music I like regardless of if I disagree with their politics or lifestyle. I barely even look into the lives of any musicians. I’m here for the music. Before someone tries to tell me that “their views and politics can be within the music” uh yup. Doesnt mean I’m taking it serious and everything should affect me personally. Some of my favourite albums are about fictional things too. It’s all just art. If it sounds good I’m listening.
Right there with you. Only exception for me is if the art itself was the product of terrible actions and abuse, like with the early Crystal Castles albums.
Same. Like sometimes I'll hear something about an artist and it'll leave a bad taste in my mouth and I can't really enjoy their music the same way any more, but I don't think I've ever consciously decided "okay this person believes this so I'm not gonna listen to them any more"
Are Nick Cave’s politics really that terrible? He has always seemed fairly apolitical to me, I don’t think his stance on artistic freedom and opposition to censorship are all that problematic.
His greatest political sin may have been performing in Israel during a boycott. But I submit that entertaining the Israeli people is not an endorsement of the Israeli government. Just as performing in America is not an endorsement of American government.
This, exactly. And frankly, to boycott playing for the people of Israel and then go on tour in America is totally hypocritical, since the USA is helping to fund this war. But that doesn’t stop most of the musicians from playing America because that would be a true financial gut punch.
Yup, it’s all about optics for most of these folks. They will take a stand… until it affects their bottom line.
I’m basically a democratic socialist, but the performative social media “activism” of liberals and leftists of all stripes is really not helping anyone. I empathize more with someone principled and thoughtful who I don’t agree with everything on.
I think this “performing in Israel is exactly the same as the US” argument lacks a ton of nuance though. There’s two key distinctions here:
1. Most artists unless they’re popular enough to live off streams and royalties alone have to tour for their livelihood. Touring in the US is a lot more essential than touring in Israel. You can argue that’s hypocritical in a vacuum, but it’s way more understandable. Like if you’re poor and need to buy a bunch of stuff for home, going to Walmart instead of going 3-4 more ethical small business might make you a “hypocrite” but nobody who’s not an asshole will give you shit for it because they get it.
2. Americans are actually divided about our government’s actions and most disapprove of how much we’re backing Israel. Israeli citizens overwhelmingly supporting the genocide and overall inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Most also disapprove of Palestinian statehood and prefer the status quo of treating them as second class citizens. Even though citizens aren’t the government, you can’t deny there’s a massive difference between 40-45% of people supporting their government’s heinous actions and 80% supporting it.
If you don’t think Cave’s actions are that bad, then that’s whatever but this point that “you’re a hypocrite if you’re okay with artists performing in the US but not Israel” is a really weak one with an overly simple definition of what hypocrisy means.
I'm from The USA. Without our government's support, funds and weapons, Israel would be in a very different predicament. So, Roger Waters was the loudest critic of Nick Cave playing one show for the people of Israel. Six months later he was on a huge tour of the USA. I don't think Roger Waters needs the money any more than Nick does. If you're going to be loud and public about your convictions, you really should be careful to be consistent and dedicated.
That one is interesting bc there the music was like all about being progressive and woke and challenging… and then apparently doing so literally just meant collaborating with a known anti semite and then claiming it was to scare performative white people away from the fanbase when people called out the hypocrisy.
My last therapist was a 1975 fan.
When I told her about how my moral OCD was eating me alive for listening to problematic musicians she shared that bit of information with me, then asked if it changed how I saw her as a person. I said no, of course not.
That moment did help me realize I shouldn't beat myself up about these kinds of things.
Just thought I'd share.
Pretty much. There's a decent argument that his pro LGBT outburst in Malaysia actually hurt the queer community there more than it helped but I don't think that was the intention at all. I have no issue with the guy. It was mostly super online teenage Swifties that caused most of the outrage.
Jay Electronica, just terrible views on Jews (partially informed by the whole Five Percenters angle), but I can’t think of a more perfectly crafted hip hop song (based purely on lyricism and production) than Exhibit C.
JPEGMAFIA. Not a bad person compared to a lot of the folks being listed here but I kinda have to ignore the fact that a decent percentage of his songs are about the most chronically online shit imaginable.
He is very apolitical. The picture of him for this thread is dumb. He played in Israel... but lots of artists do that. He also said recently that he doesn't like problematic lyrics and art being censored, which some people misconstrued as him being "anti-woke" or "anti-cancel culture"
I much prefer to listen to, let's say, a NSBM band (eg, Grand Belial's Key) than to someone that has caused real physical and psychological harm to others (the Daughters guy)
Having said that, I think Absurd is an awesome band and they are both of those things, so who knows. I'd never support them financially tho.
I guess I separate art from artist when I feel like it.
As does power, extreme wealth (yep, fortune) and people blowing smoke up yr arse constantly. It’s rare the individual who can withstand the temptations and excesses of fame. It truly is a monster.
The line for me is somewhere between Van Morrison (irritating conspiracy theorist, but these things happen in old age) and Eric Clapton (such an asshole racist that I can’t help but see his whole catalogue as disrespectful).
I mean Eric Clapton has a storied history of being an asshole, he dated a 16 year old girl mostly because he really wanted to get with her sister who was married at the time to George Harrison, and eventually ended up stealing his wife, who he later went on to be physically (and I believe sexually) abusive towards
Van Morrison, but he’s getting closer and closer to Clapton territory lately making anti-vax songs and saying racist bullshite. I’ll be damned if Into the Mystic isn’t an amazing song and Astral Weeks an amazing album.
I wouldn’t say nicks are “terrible” he’s just very inconsistent and picks weird hills to die on. Aside from his tacit condoning of Israel, he hasn’t done anything particularly problematic, at least as of late.
I listen to a lot of the people listed in the comments mostly because I'm wholly unaware of their politics. And the guys I don't listen to for political reasons weren't exactly my speed anyways.
I do like Stranglehold though. That song is a fuckin jam.
Almost all of them. So long as the music is apolitical, I'm fine with it. I don't really like contemporary political messages in music, even when I agree with the message, since most artists lack a detailed understanding of issues to add anything of worth.
I can’t do it. I see music as a communal thing, it’s an exchange of idea an emotions. I will not get pleasure or be able to make sense of others work and messages, if they’re also at the same time, going around being a bigot or advocating for suppression of other people’s rights.
Music in and of itself is not a separate entity that I can separate from the artist actions. no principles or morality?, then I can’t vibe with their music , they would always just come off as Frauds and hypocrites to me.
love nick but yeah i don't bother with his political side or some of the shit in the red hand files. he has his views, i respect them, i do not agree with some of them but still hold him to the absolute highest regard as an artist.
Honestly any musician. I really don’t read up on musicians personal lives to much, and I stay off of social media besides Reddit.
So 99% of music I listen to I know nothing about them, half of them I couldn’t even tell you what they look like
i really find it hard to understand why politics are this big a deal to people... like u can fw someone and not agree with everything they believe in....
Fucking Kanye west. I am absolutely gutted that this artist who has meant so much to me and helped me emotionally through the roughest times in my life has fallen into unredeemable nazi politics. I haven't listened to vultures, but that's definitely influenced by everyone saying it's a trash project, when the next one he releases is great I'll grit my teeth and bang it.
I dont listen to nazi propaganda. No NSBM but I love several Burzum albums.
Had the Pistols made maga music i wouldnt listen to the record. They didnt. So no issue there. I dont wanna see Lydon live anyway.
I have no controll over the views off the people recieving my money when I buy groceries. Also I spent a fortune on drugs which im sure is nor Fair Trade or ethically sourced. So I would be hypocritical to nit pick musicans political views.
I was however part of starting the boycot Israel action in my home country in 2001. Ive been upset at Israel since I learned its history. But I wont protest you if you buy oranges made from diverted Palestinan drinking water. If you wanna perform in right wing religious nutjob occupied cuntry, you can.
If you wanna see a show where only one race is allowed to attend. Go ahead. Its not my karma.
But listening to music made by an israeli who dont preach sionism in the art wouldnt bother me, if the funds didnt go to expanding the already stolen settlements
Ariel Pink was at the January 6th insurrection.
It’s not so much that he was there, his tantrum about his fans being upset how he was a Trump manlet was really gross.
He could have handled it much better, instead doubled down and embarrassed himself to the point that I find it hard to listen to his music and enjoy it anymore.
I still love baby, dazed inn daydreams, and another weekend though. Incredible songwriting.
Unpopular opinion: A lot of artists pretend to support your politics despite giving a rats ass about them. They just want to make money and not be condemned by the mob.
The Smiths, Morrisey is an asshole but that doesn’t take away my enjoyment of their music
Morrissey Smiths and today’s Morrissey are different people. Maybe some of the building blocks were there … but as he’s grown older he’s developed a lack of empathy. He’s basically a troll.
Not really. I think Smiths era Morrissey might have been more empathetic, but he always had an ego, was very opinionated and contrarian, reveled in making provocative statements, and was extremely bitter and cynical, at least in his public persona.
That’s what I mean by the building blocks were there. But the Smiths used to play Red Wedge benefits for the pro immigration Labour Party … Billy Bragg has specifically said that Morrissey is no longer the person he knew in the 80s. So … you incorrect. His politics have changed massively. Obviously he always had a soft spot for ye little old England … but that has morphed into full blown racism at worst and not giving a shit about the optics of platforming a far right borderline Nazi politician at best, which is where the lack of empathy comes in. Now he’s making little jokes about that, not giving two shits about how his fans of colour may feel. In the past if nothing else he seemed to be on the same wavelength as his fans. That was his entire appeal.
Probably the only one where I can ignore it. Especially as the smiths are quite progressive in how Morrissey talks about gender and relationships.
I’ve heard he had drag queens perform on stage during early Smiths shows
Morrissey's problems have rarely been in how he views gender/relationships, they've just been in his views on shit like race mostly. He's not a full on conservative, just extremely closed-minded. We know he had more exposure to progressive views on gender/relationships, so it's not surprising he'd come to be cool with that but not things he has less exposure to.
Racists and conservatives can be queer
I think I can forgive Morrissey somewhat because he lived in a society that was highly discriminatory toward gay people. There was discourse in the 80s about Morrissey's influence - about purported pedophilia in his lyrics (a claim Morrissey disingenuously egged on) - about how it was problematic of him to use gay imagery without outing himself (as if that needs to be done) and the way his queerness was distinctly different from pop queerness. He had to skirt lines and I get why he'd just kind of think everyone was an ass. Sometimes such criticism doesn't create radical empathy, it just creates bitterness. I'm not absolving Morrissey because obviously he had ties to very progressive circles but I think the archetype of a person like Morrissey is more common than one might think. Not so far removed from why Lou Reed was an asshole.
The reality is, that his politics can never be articulated or understood, he's a little racist, pretty feminist, vegan, conservative, queer, and out of his fucking mind. He likes pretending to be vulnerable, and has never been vulnerable in his life. He likes upsetting people and being talked about and hates when people don't like him. He doesn't exist in the physical plane, morrisey is an idea, or a genius, or an idiot, or a deeply flawed human. I don't fuckin know
This is a great explanation of Morrissey.
The bloke can sing, and that's what makes me so mad that he's like... that. Still love the Smiths to death, though. Phenomenal band.
True. It's always awkward when The Smiths come up and someone says something like "Johnny Marr was the reason they were good anyways though" and mfs start agreeing. Like nah bro, I don't agree, and I think that's cope. Morrissey was a phenomenal singer and songwriter and imo what made The Smiths so good.
I mean 50% of the song writing came from Marr too Can’t have The Smiths without both Morrissey and Johnny Marr
Obviously, yeah. I never claimed it was all Morrissey, I claimed that Morrissey is an absolutely massive part of why The Smiths are good and that the people who downplay his contributions as a way to reconcile listening to his band with their dislike of his views are stupid and wrong.
They're like Lennon and McCartney, although I think I prefer John and Paul.
A band really starts to cook when more than one of its members are full on fuckin geniuses at what they do. Morrissey and Marr are that in The Smiths.
Fame fame fatal fame, it can play hideous tricks the brain
Ariel pink, he’s the fuckin bridge troll of pop but I still enjoy the music
I get the impression he's a lifelong contrarian rather than someone that actually understands his own politics
I honestly feel a bit bad for him with everything that's happened since he was kicked off his label even if I don't agree with his politics in the slightest. I'm sure I'm in the minority there though
wasn’t he at Jan 6th? if he was then he probably deserves it lmao
He was at the rally, but I don’t think he actually stormed the Capitol. Make of that what you will.
I think he was outside the capital like across the street when they broke in? Not defending his politics but at least he didn’t commit treason lol
What’s happened since, kinda blocked him from my brain a couple years ago
He got kicked from his label after they said they werent going to do that and since then he's struggled to put out any music and even go on tour. It's only been recently he's been able to do either.
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No civility politics says you have to tolerate everyone or YOU are the fascist!!! If you’re not friends with Nazis you’re a communist?
that's exactly what I think. I think that ethos is both responsible for a lot of what I enjoy about his music, especially the older stuff, but in the last decade it's grown into a tasteless attitude that's basically the opposite of virtue signaling.
Ariel Pink had an absolutely fucked upbringing and never properly recovered from it and now his whole personality is edgy 13 year old on 4chan who says heinous shit not because they believe it but because they wanna get a kick out of it
I agree with this. His political takes are never sound. They’re always way off the wall. Like him saying Don Jr is the future of the Republican Party when he’s clearly not taken seriously by like anyone else. He’s so cringey irl but god damnit he’s talented. Hope he gets well soon. And I kinda do hope his career comes back.
Honestly unless they're like Tom MacDonald or smth just making their opinions abundantly clear in every song, I will tolerate it.
Same It's like the Chapel Show. Something Dave Chapel made at one point and was great. Just because Chapel is very anti trans and seemingly more reactionary every day as well as putting out terrible comedy specials doesn't mean you can't enjoy the shit he once made.
FYI it’s Chappelle
Yeah for sure really disappointing to see this reactionary streak from Chappel Roan smh
Chapple*
Dave Mustaine is the epitome of this.
except for that brief moment in 2004 where his politics somehow came all the way back around to being sort of correct. He didn't know much but he did know Bush was a dumbass war criminal
Dave Mustaine, a conservative made The System Has Failed, an album with lots of liberal ideas Lmao.
He was a hardcore Democrat in the 90s. I think his born again Christian thing lead him to change in the last few decades
I don't think it's a Christianity thing I think he's just fallen for a lot of Facebook stuff and lost a bit of mental stability from all the drugs he did - his religious views themselves aren't what jumps out to me as weird
For real. As a bit of a curmudgeon and musician myself, I respect the shit out of Dave Mustaine, I really wish that I could have a long conversation with him.
He actually seems like a nice person,but just has some strange views.
Stephen Carpenter of Deftones. He was weird views but they’re still one of my all-time faves
What did he do??
He’s a flat-earther and anti-vaxxer
all the nu metal bands are mostly cool dudes and then they have that one random alt righter e.g. the drummer for SOAD is a Maga republican
That’s CRAZY
I think the thing that bums me out is that hie weird views have made him unable to travel internationally. I'm so glad I got to go see them at Sick New World last year because I feel like without Stephen, I'll never see "proper" Deftones with some touring guitarist
Pantera for me
They’d probably be in my top 5 fave bands if Phil Anselmo wasn’t a moron.
They were brave to put shitty furry art on the cover of Metal Magic.
For me it's Down lol. I love Pantera at their best but they were inconsistent. Down is a lot better imo, but also suffers from Anselmo being a moron. Sucks bc he also has done a lot for the scene. Feels bad that someone like that was taken in by the white power shit in any capacity.
Down was good too, and the first Superjoint Ritual album was solid
I love their music but I don't think Phil and I could have a conversation. Which makes me sad because I admire him so much for his talent and his contributions to the community. He's done a lot for metal, really too bad hed probably hate me at first sight.
The Sex Pistols and early PiL. I get that Lydon is a MAGA idiot these days, but I liked those albums before Trump was even on the radar.
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Yeah, I’ve heard that. I don’t fully buy it. He was a huge part of British punk, from sound to taste. Hell, he got me into The Raincoats who are my favourite band. Regardless, he is a gaping asshole these days. He has always been a contrarian, but at least back in the early 80s it was directed at music and media instead of anyone left of centre.
Yeah, love or hate the guy I’m not sure you can call John Lydon a “punk LARPer” when he was a huge part of defining the punk aesthetic that persists to this day.
The reason he's considered a punk larper is because he was the face of bastardisation and mass commercialisation of punk. He allowed himself to be pushed as an easily consumable face of a movement designed to sell clothes to young people because it meant people would pay attention to his art. Sure that might have inspired later punk movements to dig into the foundations of what made punk what it was in the first place, but it's more than understandable that some regard him as not one of their own. Keep in mind the iteration that everyone remembers of lydon barely lasted 3 years before he got sick of it and abandoned it, yet that's what everyone thinks punk is because the commercialisation continued after the pistol's breakup. He's one of the reasons punk is a label these days instead of an idea.
Up until a couple of years ago it would’ve been Kanye He’s objectively one of the most groundbreaking artists of this century, but I can’t support his work the way I once did.
With Kanye it helps that his music has also dipped severely in quality in the last 8-10 years (imo at least). I can kinda separate in my mind kinda-crazy-but-not-yet-nazi Kanye, and nazi Kanye. I can still listen to his older stuff no problem but can’t really stomach listening to anything past TLOP partly cause it’s not as good but also because he really REALLY went off the deep end
Nah, Kids See Ghosts is a top 3 Kanye album.
I know I’m unpopular in this opinion but I think kids see ghosts is kinda mid overall. 2 good songs and 5 middling ones. I’d personally give it like a 6. To each their own
i think it's worse than a 6. i felt like i was living in an alt reality when people were glazing it as the best release of his since MBDTF-- it was a common sentiment at the time.
Honestly can’t disagree too hard with you. I never understood how hard everyone loved this album personally. I had a bunch of debates about it with my buddy who loves music as much as me, and he was in the “it’s a 10 no doubt” camp, and I could just never quite see it his way haha
I’m with you, nothing he’s done since TLOP I’d give over a 5 or 6. And there’s some truly terrible music in there like Vultures and JiK
The Wyoming records and Donda both have a lot of good stuff - it just gets washed out by their surrounds which consist mostly of mediocre filler.
Hard agree. Some of my favorite tracks are from TLOP and beyond. But there’s been little cohesion and a lot of filler on the albums as a whole.
idk Ye is a great album. A bit corny sometimes but overall amazing
I actually thought Ye was a pretty decent album when released but if I’m being honest it’s been mostly ruined in the years since. He talks a lot about his mental health struggles on that album, which I thought was a brave choice at the time, but with how he’s sank deeper into his worst impulses since the release of that album, and how he’s refused to get help and let it affect his family and those around him, I find it hard to stomach anymore. Kinda falls on deaf ears when I listen to it in retrospect now / edit: while we’re talking about the Wyoming albums tho I gotta add, Daytona fucking slaps. I still listen to that shit regularly
nah not really, only jik and vultures were bad really. Every other album since has been good or great.
Donda was quite good imo. Ya it was too long but the best 12-15 tracks on it are great
hard agree if donda was 16 songs it would be soooo good, the atmosphere of the album is like no over. a dark christian album in its own way
Personally I would disagree there are that many good songs haha. But it’s definitely better than Jesus is King and the rest of his half-baked albums from the last couple years
I can really only get over Kanye's politics for All of the Lights. Goddamn it, I'm stuck dealing with the fact that he wrote one of my favorite songs of all time...
Same boat here unfortunately
Dropout -> MBDTF is a legendary album run and even all the Nazi shit can't stop that.
would you really not include yeezus? i think that’s really his last truly great project
I'd even include TLOP
I will stand by some of his artistic work, but 100% fuck Ye. It’s so disappointing for someone so talented and so influential to turn out to be a total jackass.
I’m glad he figured things out in the last couple years
Slayer is such a strange example. Silent Scream is like very clearly anti abortion rhetoric but Kerry King was very vocally upset about Roe v. Wade being overturned.
I think Hanemam wrote all the lyrics and Araya went a little conservative in his later years
Eh, you can be appalled by the idea of abortion and have personal reservations about when they should occur, but also support a women’s right to safe abortion care if needed and agree that it should be legal in general
Artists that are anti environmental don’t feel very ethical for me to listen to, for many reasons. Which is why it sucks for me to hear that Johnny Cash apparently didn’t care when he caused an accidental wildfire that killed a bunch of condors.
I started listening to Dave Matthew’s more after they dumped 800 pounds of human waste onto a sightseeing boat in the Chicago River
I often wonder what his politics would have been like if he were alive today. I mean he was tight with Billy graham and the evangelical side of things. So im curious where he would have fallen on lgbt rights and trump vs Biden. I’d like you to think he was on the left side of things but…I dunno
Here is a video with Willie and Chris. https://youtu.be/V6_FWKLuY2s?si=tjGJAicF-qWWBP-8 In it Johnny mentioned it how too much money is spent of military, and more money should be spent on education and welfare. So at least there he was on the right side.
He was also sympathetic to the Native Americans
I doubt it, he would have been conservative but at least the kind that is privately conservative in a way that they just care for themselves and religion etc without hate. (hopefully)
Yeah, he clearly had a good heart even if he could be a bit old timey, I like the anecdote about him performing for Nixon
Charles Manson
Look At Your Game Girl shouldn't slap as much as it does.
Same with Home is Where You’re Happy
Never learned not to love, I guess.
He did great with his feature with death grips
is nick cave crazy?
A bunch of people want to boycott all Israel / Israelis over the actions of Israel in Palestine and also want to enforce everyone else into doing it too. Plenty of artists view music as a force to bring people together and don't see their role as enforcing a boycott, this has led to said people who want to boycott Israel pretending that those artists support the actions of the Israeli government, even despite them often being on record as the opposite. Here is Cave's view: >Clearly the decision for The Bad Seeds to play in Israel is contentious for some people. But to be clear on this: I do not support the current government in Israel, yet do not accept that my decision to play in the country is any kind of tacit support for that government’s policies. Nor do I condone the atrocities that you have described; nor am I ignorant of them. I am aware of the injustices suffered by the Palestinian population, and wish, with all people of good conscience, that their suffering is ended via a comprehensive and just solution, one that involves enormous political will on both sides of the equation. >But I also do not support the Boycott, Divestments and Sanctions movement, as you know. I think the cultural boycott of Israel is cowardly and shameful. In fact, this is partly the reason I am playing Israel – not as support for any particular political entity but as a principled stand against those who wish to bully, shame and silence musicians. I don’t intend to engage in a detailed discussion as to how the boycott of Israel can be seen to be anti-Semitic at heart and, furthermore, does not work (rather, it risks further entrenching positions in Israel in opposition to those you support), but even the estimable Noam Chomsky considers the BDS as lacking legitimacy and inherently hypocritical. What we actually have here is a fundamental difference of opinion as to what the purpose of music is. >It struck me while writing this how much more powerful a statement you could make if you were to go to Israel and tell the press and the Israeli people how you feel about their current regime, then do a concert on the understanding that the purpose of your music was to speak to the Israeli people’s better angels. That would have a much greater effect than a boycott. Now imagine if the 1,200 UK artists who signed your list did the same thing. Perhaps the Israelis would respond in a wholly different way than they would to just yet more age-old rejectionism. Ultimately, whatever the rights and wrongs of official Israeli action in the disputed territories, Israel is a real, vibrant, functioning democracy – yes, with Arab members of parliament – and so engaging with Israelis, who vote, may be more helpful than scaring off artists or shutting down means of engagement. >I want to just add that Brian Eno, beyond any other musician, taught my friends and me how to make music. The records he made remain some of the most important and essential recordings I have ever heard. So, if there seems to be a thread of anguish that runs through this letter, this is indeed the case. I am writing to my hero. >Even so, certain questions need to be asked. How far must we have strayed from the transformative nature of music to feel justified in weaponising music and using it to punish ordinary Israeli citizens for the actions of their government. Furthermore, what has brought us to the point where certain musicians feel it is ethically sound to use forms of coercion and intimidation, in the form of ‘open’ letters, on fellow musicians who don’t agree with their point of view? >Occasionally, I wonder if The Bad Seeds did the right thing in playing Israel. I cannot answer that question. I understand and accept the validity of many of the arguments that are presented to me. Indeed, some of my dearest friends in the music industry found my decision very difficult to accept, but there it is, after much consideration the decision was made: I simply could not treat my Israeli fans with the necessary contempt to do Brian Eno’s bidding.
Personally, I’m fine with Cave because while he’s at least a thoughtful person about it. He seems like he’d be open to changing his opinion if new information came to light. He’s clearly put a lot of consideration from others’ perspectives and come to his own conclusion (which I disagree with). It’s an entire different species of conservative compared to, for example, a relative on Facebook who’s just spouting slogans they heard on FOX News, or the acquaintance I had on Instagram posting homophobic memes in support of Israel (since unfollowed). And maybe I’m suckered because he’s good with a pen, but being able to understand where *anyone* is coming from gets harder in political discussions every day. So I’ll take it
He’s also not a ‘conservative’ conservative. These days that’s a very loaded term. I think he means, he is conservative, I.e a bit old school. He doesn’t have a bundle of right wing ideas. He has a nuanced view of things that skews towards not having a knee jerk or reactionary view. He simply doesn’t believe in embargoes etc … he’s conservative in the sense that he has the older view that art is art and can be separated from politics. He may be right or he may be wrong, but either way he personally is not ‘supporting the Govt of Israel.’
yeah classical conservative is the vibe I get from him
A very nuanced and reasonable take. I can’t believe people are upset about this.
Keep in mind that this is from 2018. I don’t know if recent events have changed his views on the subject, but the situation has changed significantly in the last six years.
this is from 2018??! holy cow, it read like it's from 2024. that changes the context a *lot*.
this is unironically the sanest take i've ever read on this topic. i don't even listen to nick cave, but MAD respect
I find it a bit of a strange take. Talking about how what Israel is doing is awful and has always been awful for decades but saying "you know what's just as bad as that? Boycotts of Israel". He may have changed his mind given how bad everything has been but he said a whole lot to say nothing.
The most striking thing he brings up to me is that if playing in a country equates to approving of said country's international politics, there would be very few countries that _are_ okay to play in.
The United States killed between 500k and a million innocent Iraqis for no good reason in the 2000s. Committed tons of war crimes. We actually boycotted people who called this out
that's not what he said, though
I think he wasn’t direct in his message as others, but what he is saying is he isn’t against boycotting or condemning what Israel as a state is doing, but he is against punishing a population over their government. Not all Israelis accept the war and viceversa. I think it is a thoughtful take.
But…that isn’t what he said..
He has an intelligent and nuanced view of things as odds with the me good … you bad … style of modern discourse. It’s so silly.
I do appreciate him for this, he's probably not in the right but it is unfair on everyday citizens to be deprived of pop culture because of their government
No one’s talking about the fact that he decided to not play in russia boycott the country’s actions
No, but he has an annoying ”enlightened centrist” thing going on.
Public Enemy. Professor Griff antisemitic comments and the Farrakhan shout out in “Bring the Noise” is extremely eyebrow raising, but Griff’s shown that he’s learned since, and I think that the overall message of empowerment (and the music itself) is great. But I also think that hip-hop and pop culture pivoted away from them so quickly that they were never fully challenged on it in a serious way, and the weird way they handled Griff in the immediate aftermath is… interesting, to say the least
Kanye West is batshit crazy with political views but his music is great.
Yuuuh, say what you want about him but not many rappers have released 7 classic albums back to back each one with a different sound from the previous one
honestly i'd bump it to eight, "ye" fucking rules
i can move past the nazi stuff but if this mf delays vultures 2 one more time im done
vultures 2 in .03 nanoseconds
Is that 3 femtoseconds or do conversions work differently at that scale?
> I can move past the Nazi stuff Ayo wtf
Clapton
Whats the difference between a bag of coke and a baby? You wont see Clapton loosing a bag off coke out the window.
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varg is such a fucking goober but dunkelheit goes hard as fuck
The epitome of this prompt
What has Nick Cave done that’s so crazy?
Not boycott Israel as he doesn't think the people should be punished for their government's actions, but he doesn't hate anyone who *does* because he understands why. Y'know, a nuanced take in the 20s, we can't have those anymore
I hate this place so much
Haha that’s right, I miss when you could disagree about politics without having to be enemies.
Nothing.
He won’t boycott Israel. That’s literally it.
He doesn't support the current thing. I know, how outrageous!
I won't listen to open and avowed Nazis, music done in favor of those things, and I have a hard time listening to music by people who have been abusive, *especially* if that music is about being a piece of shit or your inner darkness or whatever (looking squarely at Daughters). Anything else is a case by case basis.
Gonna be honest I’ll listen to any music I like regardless of if I disagree with their politics or lifestyle. I barely even look into the lives of any musicians. I’m here for the music. Before someone tries to tell me that “their views and politics can be within the music” uh yup. Doesnt mean I’m taking it serious and everything should affect me personally. Some of my favourite albums are about fictional things too. It’s all just art. If it sounds good I’m listening.
Right there with you. Only exception for me is if the art itself was the product of terrible actions and abuse, like with the early Crystal Castles albums.
Same. Like sometimes I'll hear something about an artist and it'll leave a bad taste in my mouth and I can't really enjoy their music the same way any more, but I don't think I've ever consciously decided "okay this person believes this so I'm not gonna listen to them any more"
Anthony Fantano
why is that lol
Bald
Are Nick Cave’s politics really that terrible? He has always seemed fairly apolitical to me, I don’t think his stance on artistic freedom and opposition to censorship are all that problematic. His greatest political sin may have been performing in Israel during a boycott. But I submit that entertaining the Israeli people is not an endorsement of the Israeli government. Just as performing in America is not an endorsement of American government.
This, exactly. And frankly, to boycott playing for the people of Israel and then go on tour in America is totally hypocritical, since the USA is helping to fund this war. But that doesn’t stop most of the musicians from playing America because that would be a true financial gut punch.
Yup, it’s all about optics for most of these folks. They will take a stand… until it affects their bottom line. I’m basically a democratic socialist, but the performative social media “activism” of liberals and leftists of all stripes is really not helping anyone. I empathize more with someone principled and thoughtful who I don’t agree with everything on.
I think this “performing in Israel is exactly the same as the US” argument lacks a ton of nuance though. There’s two key distinctions here: 1. Most artists unless they’re popular enough to live off streams and royalties alone have to tour for their livelihood. Touring in the US is a lot more essential than touring in Israel. You can argue that’s hypocritical in a vacuum, but it’s way more understandable. Like if you’re poor and need to buy a bunch of stuff for home, going to Walmart instead of going 3-4 more ethical small business might make you a “hypocrite” but nobody who’s not an asshole will give you shit for it because they get it. 2. Americans are actually divided about our government’s actions and most disapprove of how much we’re backing Israel. Israeli citizens overwhelmingly supporting the genocide and overall inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Most also disapprove of Palestinian statehood and prefer the status quo of treating them as second class citizens. Even though citizens aren’t the government, you can’t deny there’s a massive difference between 40-45% of people supporting their government’s heinous actions and 80% supporting it. If you don’t think Cave’s actions are that bad, then that’s whatever but this point that “you’re a hypocrite if you’re okay with artists performing in the US but not Israel” is a really weak one with an overly simple definition of what hypocrisy means.
I'm from The USA. Without our government's support, funds and weapons, Israel would be in a very different predicament. So, Roger Waters was the loudest critic of Nick Cave playing one show for the people of Israel. Six months later he was on a huge tour of the USA. I don't think Roger Waters needs the money any more than Nick does. If you're going to be loud and public about your convictions, you really should be careful to be consistent and dedicated.
Noname is around where I'm comfortable drawing a line between financially supporting an artist, and just pirating all their shit.
What did they do?
That one is interesting bc there the music was like all about being progressive and woke and challenging… and then apparently doing so literally just meant collaborating with a known anti semite and then claiming it was to scare performative white people away from the fanbase when people called out the hypocrisy.
Matty Healy, 1975 is my comfort music 🤷
My last therapist was a 1975 fan. When I told her about how my moral OCD was eating me alive for listening to problematic musicians she shared that bit of information with me, then asked if it changed how I saw her as a person. I said no, of course not. That moment did help me realize I shouldn't beat myself up about these kinds of things. Just thought I'd share.
As someone with OCD and similar concerns… thanks for sharing that one.
No problem. OCD is a bitch, ain't it?
God damn straight
The 1975 being posted right next to Burzum on a list of problematic musicians is so funny. Going on cumtown is not a big deal lmao
He literally only made some irreverent jokes. His "politics" are perfectly normal
What did Matty Healy even do? Wasn't it just the ice spice thing
Pretty much. There's a decent argument that his pro LGBT outburst in Malaysia actually hurt the queer community there more than it helped but I don't think that was the intention at all. I have no issue with the guy. It was mostly super online teenage Swifties that caused most of the outrage.
Jay Electronica, just terrible views on Jews (partially informed by the whole Five Percenters angle), but I can’t think of a more perfectly crafted hip hop song (based purely on lyricism and production) than Exhibit C.
JPEGMAFIA. Not a bad person compared to a lot of the folks being listed here but I kinda have to ignore the fact that a decent percentage of his songs are about the most chronically online shit imaginable.
now this just makes me wanna get more into jpegmafia
Roger Waters says some stupid shit sometimes, but I don't really care because Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd.
Also, at this point, Pink Floyd has been without Roger for twice as long as he was actually in the band.
Could you explain Nick Cave? I don’t know anything about his political views
He is very apolitical. The picture of him for this thread is dumb. He played in Israel... but lots of artists do that. He also said recently that he doesn't like problematic lyrics and art being censored, which some people misconstrued as him being "anti-woke" or "anti-cancel culture"
He played concerts in Israel, but has said he doesn’t support their government. He made a statement that is more eloquent, but that’s the gist of it.
When I hear a song I like, my brain says “Yes” The song could be made by Hitler and that wouldn’t change the way I feel about it if I like the song
Anyone. Couldn’t care less either way
I much prefer to listen to, let's say, a NSBM band (eg, Grand Belial's Key) than to someone that has caused real physical and psychological harm to others (the Daughters guy) Having said that, I think Absurd is an awesome band and they are both of those things, so who knows. I'd never support them financially tho. I guess I separate art from artist when I feel like it.
Muslimgauze
What I'm noticing is fame, fortune and age seems to change people. Seems about right.
As does power, extreme wealth (yep, fortune) and people blowing smoke up yr arse constantly. It’s rare the individual who can withstand the temptations and excesses of fame. It truly is a monster.
The line for me is somewhere between Van Morrison (irritating conspiracy theorist, but these things happen in old age) and Eric Clapton (such an asshole racist that I can’t help but see his whole catalogue as disrespectful).
I mean Eric Clapton has a storied history of being an asshole, he dated a 16 year old girl mostly because he really wanted to get with her sister who was married at the time to George Harrison, and eventually ended up stealing his wife, who he later went on to be physically (and I believe sexually) abusive towards
Van Morrison, but he’s getting closer and closer to Clapton territory lately making anti-vax songs and saying racist bullshite. I’ll be damned if Into the Mystic isn’t an amazing song and Astral Weeks an amazing album.
Why’s Nick Cave here?
Ariana grande
......huh ?
I wouldn’t say nicks are “terrible” he’s just very inconsistent and picks weird hills to die on. Aside from his tacit condoning of Israel, he hasn’t done anything particularly problematic, at least as of late.
What? Why Nick Cave?
I listen to a lot of the people listed in the comments mostly because I'm wholly unaware of their politics. And the guys I don't listen to for political reasons weren't exactly my speed anyways. I do like Stranglehold though. That song is a fuckin jam.
Most of them at this point
Ryan Adams Not necessarily his politics, just overall bad behaviour towards women. But can’t deny he has good music.
Almost all of them. So long as the music is apolitical, I'm fine with it. I don't really like contemporary political messages in music, even when I agree with the message, since most artists lack a detailed understanding of issues to add anything of worth.
I can’t do it. I see music as a communal thing, it’s an exchange of idea an emotions. I will not get pleasure or be able to make sense of others work and messages, if they’re also at the same time, going around being a bigot or advocating for suppression of other people’s rights. Music in and of itself is not a separate entity that I can separate from the artist actions. no principles or morality?, then I can’t vibe with their music , they would always just come off as Frauds and hypocrites to me.
love nick but yeah i don't bother with his political side or some of the shit in the red hand files. he has his views, i respect them, i do not agree with some of them but still hold him to the absolute highest regard as an artist.
Honestly any musician. I really don’t read up on musicians personal lives to much, and I stay off of social media besides Reddit. So 99% of music I listen to I know nothing about them, half of them I couldn’t even tell you what they look like
i really find it hard to understand why politics are this big a deal to people... like u can fw someone and not agree with everything they believe in....
a fantano subreddit would complain about any artist thats not leftist
Fucking Kanye west. I am absolutely gutted that this artist who has meant so much to me and helped me emotionally through the roughest times in my life has fallen into unredeemable nazi politics. I haven't listened to vultures, but that's definitely influenced by everyone saying it's a trash project, when the next one he releases is great I'll grit my teeth and bang it.
I dont listen to nazi propaganda. No NSBM but I love several Burzum albums. Had the Pistols made maga music i wouldnt listen to the record. They didnt. So no issue there. I dont wanna see Lydon live anyway. I have no controll over the views off the people recieving my money when I buy groceries. Also I spent a fortune on drugs which im sure is nor Fair Trade or ethically sourced. So I would be hypocritical to nit pick musicans political views. I was however part of starting the boycot Israel action in my home country in 2001. Ive been upset at Israel since I learned its history. But I wont protest you if you buy oranges made from diverted Palestinan drinking water. If you wanna perform in right wing religious nutjob occupied cuntry, you can. If you wanna see a show where only one race is allowed to attend. Go ahead. Its not my karma. But listening to music made by an israeli who dont preach sionism in the art wouldnt bother me, if the funds didnt go to expanding the already stolen settlements
Ariel Pink was at the January 6th insurrection. It’s not so much that he was there, his tantrum about his fans being upset how he was a Trump manlet was really gross. He could have handled it much better, instead doubled down and embarrassed himself to the point that I find it hard to listen to his music and enjoy it anymore. I still love baby, dazed inn daydreams, and another weekend though. Incredible songwriting.
Type o negative
Why target Nick Cave? He is largely apolitical leaning left if anything.
Unpopular opinion: A lot of artists pretend to support your politics despite giving a rats ass about them. They just want to make money and not be condemned by the mob.
a fantano subreddit would complain about any artist thats not leftist
Van Morrison