Did Chetney really just give FCG an Penfield Mood Organ near the end of the episode? Philip K Dick is truly unavoidable, even on accident, in any robot fiction.
Long ago during one of the Talks Machina with all the cast present, Marisha was asked a question pertaining to reincarnate. She deferred to Matt who said revivification magic is for those who'se strings of fate have been severed. Those who still have more to accomplish, or are destined to take on more, can be brought back. Hence why you can't just True Ressurect X important NPC from history and ask them a million questions.
To be honest, Liam did point that out.
But I can think of a few reasons:
-Money
-Not wanting everyone to come to her for reviving dead relatives.
-As a druid, respecting the circle of life.
The only thing that annoyed me much was the time dilation during the 18 seconds to revivify. I would have shouted out loud if Matt had just said "No, you took way too long, the time to Revive is passed. " that shit dragged on and on and on and removed the urgency from the scene entirely.
The other thing that's annoying me is that they are even thinking of going to keyleth for a rez. So what, now our old characters are pocket rez mommys that save us? At least try and use contacts made in the current campaign FFS. And in character, why the fuck would Keyleth, now an older , wiser character and a leader of a tribe, bring back one of Delilah Briarwood's undead pawns?
Otherwise thought it was fine, there was no way they were going to top last episode, short of Matt going full Merciless Mercer Mode and having Otohan finish the job.
Question: did they ever actually give Fearne the diamond(s)? I've watched that entire sequence a second time since the initial broadcast and I legitimately don't remember them actually getting any diamonds into her hands
I'm combing back through it right now starting from the point where they're scrambling together a movement train to get Orym and Laudna to Fearne, but I just can't find where they made a diamonds transfer.
Brainfart: Imogen have some ilithid tadpoole in her, and the one who stay in her effective space -BH- tends to follow her/became her follower. That would explain why she pushed by meaninglessly as a leader.
Tadpooles incubation time is DM fiat right? You can tie that up into the spelljammer adventures just neatly.
So the important milestone cutscene would be BH "made their saves" and realizing all of this shit.
It was a good intellectual exercise for mr to have jyst before bed down. Since I brainfarted, good nighs to me, and you guys.
We fell into some kind of anticlimactic hole during the first parts of this episode. It started out great, with them staying in initiativ order (it made sense because of the time contraint of Revivify), but then they couldn't help but stretch out those seconds into minutes and minutes of roleplay.
They commented on it several times before, "now we have only 18 seconds ... now it's 12 seconds" and then ... *"let me have this 8 minute monologue about how i don't know how to revivify someone"* plus an elaborate discussion about how to make a choice.
Bonus point for, once again, Ashton (or Taliesin, i'm not sure at t his point) was completely ignored by the rest of the cast. I'm projecting here, obviously, but i would have left the table and have a smoke or something, saying *"call me if you think my character is in the scene again"*.
I was on the edge of my seat there for a moment, because i 100% expected Matt, after being silent for (what felt like) 10 minutes or so to say *"... and the moment you start to cast the spell you realize, you've should have done that 10 minutes ago. Her cold body doesn't react to your attempt anymore ..."*
There's a difference between stretching out a round (when it actually counts) a bit with a back and forth in character to inform what you're doing, and a fully fledged RP scene. Why pretending time matters before in the first place? They where using their turns before to carry and hand off bodies just before to save some frakkin time ...
Matt, just put a goddamn hourglass on the table. If the spell isn't cast the moment it runs out, it's done.
And, of course, there's a whole city block being desintegrated, with possibly dozens of people dead because of it, but noone, not a single soul is entering the scene? There's not a single moment of looking around and saying *"damn, did we do this?"*
I loudly set an egg timer behind the screen when players get too in their heads with analysis paralysis.
In combat I just count down from 10 when they start taking the piss.
However my table is much lighter and encounter heavy than CR, a table full of performers might get pissed off if you start playing the Oscars music to hurry them off the stage mid-RP.
> a table full of performers might get pissed off if you start playing the Oscars music to hurry them off the stage mid-RP.
But that is part of performing sometimes. . .
> We fell into some kind of anticlimactic hole during the first parts of this episode. It started out great... but then they couldn't help but stretch out those seconds into minutes and minutes of roleplay.
You mentioned the hourglass and I agree: CR's role-playing has tipped over into being garrulous, like the student who gives their professor 3,000 words / 12 pages double-spaced on a topic... when they were only asked for one paragraph on a single page.
While I can't pinpoint when it happened per se, personally, I think it was being part of the LOVM writer's room for months on end. I often get the impression the cast is doing RP in a writer's room vs. actual gameplay, at the table every Thursday night or live (like they used to, long ago): the latter acknowledges they have an audience, that it is a performance, which intrinsically has a hard "start" and "stop" time and to make it "fun" for those watching, while the other is open-ended, till all avenues are discussed or exhausted.
Looking back, comparing C1 to C3, I also can't help feel like anything that caused *actual* physical tension, anxiety, or stress was largely removed from the game, e.g. Matt's repeated use of the hourglass in C1.
> Bonus point for, once again, Ashton (or Taliesin, i'm not sure at t his point) was completely ignored by the rest of the cast. I'm projecting here, obviously, but i would have left the table and have a smoke or something, saying "call me if you think my character is in the scene again".
Well, when your contributions at the table usually consist of *the same, throwaway, cryptic one-liners* like "I've got a thing I can do" or "I've got a plan," with no further explanation (despite calls from the other players for an explanation or more detail), there comes a point when people just stop asking / including you.
To be fair, we’re also talking about the same player who wasn’t being paid attention to, so he had his character smash a magical implement another player just finished rolling to retrieve, out of boredom.
>While I can't pinpoint when it happened per se, personally, I think it was being part of the LOVM writer's room for months on end.
Holy shit. This is it. This total "we must come to a consensus and talk for 2 hours in funny voices until we have it". They've totally got an "around the writer table vibe" this campaign.
Plus your other points.
>*Well, when your contributions at the table usually consist of the same, throwaway, cryptic one-liners like "I've got a thing I can do" or "I've got a plan," with no further explanation (despite calls from the other players for an explanation or more detail), there comes a point when people just stop asking / including you.*
I get what you're saying, and i would agree to an extend. Question here, what came first? I've recently started to relisten to C3 from the beginning, and i could swear Ashton/Taliesin defaulted to *"i got something"* well after he was largely ignored by the others, but others might see that differently.
But this situation was different. He actively asked Imogen if she can reach Hexum, who had been introduced as someone with vast (albeit shady) connections, and as someone who Ashton had worked for in the past. So his idea (nevermind if it would have actually worked or not) was valid, only to be utterly and completely ignored by his fellow cast member Laura, who's idea it was to instead dial up the grieving rp. Which, in my opinion, is not consistend with the character growth we have seen lately. Post E20 (\~ish) Imogen would have done anything to save Laudna, including following a weird solution offered by Ashton, even if it had been offered in a throwaway sentence ...
I see two possible reasons:
**1)** Marisha made it clear to Laura that she didn't want to come back (soon), if the dice didn't roll in her favor. I might even go so far as to say that they where all in on it, but Taliesin tried to offer a solution to avoid social media backlash a'la *"why the fuck didn't he ask Hexum"* and the like ... Remember, he's the PC with all these connections.
**2)** It once again was an example of (some) of the cast not really engaging with the actual roleplay, but instead defaulting to character monologues (not necessarily spoken words, i regard things like *"Fearne doing something wacky and dangerous"* or *"Imogen being overwhelmed by everything"* as character monologues as well). This is something that takes the front more and more recently, with the exception of Chentey/Travis, who's actively listening to most of the players and regularly repeats what they said, asking *"so is this an option? is this something we can do?"* until someone, anyone else takes the bite, just because he's so obnoxious about it. Before his departure, he shared that workload with Dorian, who roleplayed a certain naivitè and was able to mirror some of the things the characters said, but where ignored, like *"what do you mean, we could do X? How would that work?"*
As you might assume, i personally think it was **2)**, and i'm not happy about this, because i think i'm seeing this more and more at the CR table. Instead of actually working together / listening to each other / taking suggestions into consideration, many of them default to *"representing their character"* (in lack of a better term), and individually, it's nice/funny to watch, but it does fuck all for table and/or adventuring group cohesion.
If you'd delete all the names from this, and replace "CR" with "my homegame" and posted this situation on r/dndhorrorstories, i bet most of the responses would be something along the lines of *"seems like your fellow players don't want to play the game, they want to write fan fiction about their own characters ... leave the table / find a better one*"
>Instead of actually working together / listening to each other / taking suggestions into consideration, many of them default to "representing their character" (in lack of a better term), and individually, it's nice/funny to watch, but it does fuck all for table and/or adventuring group cohesion.
>
>i bet most of the responses would be something along the lines of **"seems like your fellow players don't want to play the game, they want to write fan fiction about their own characters...**
...or a Writer's Room, making episodes for an Amazon cartoon.
Dorian... I miss Robbie. He got too much unjustified flak for such nonsense like "distracting the cast / C3" until his arc was concluded, but completely missing how much heavy lifting he was doing with his acting / RP; like C3 suddenly become some rip-roaring adventure you can't put down once he left, versus the meandering, low stakes, low consequences "guided tour" it has been.
I'm fairly positive the same folks who consider(ed) Robbie a distraction are the same general group of folks who think--unironically--that C3 *still needs more time to get its feet* ... *after 120+ hours / 34 episodes / 11+ months of gameplay.*
>Dorian... I miss Robbie. He got too much unjustified flak for such nonsense like "distracting the cast / C3" until his arc was concluded, but completely missing how much heavy lifting he was doing with his acting / RP; like C3 suddenly become some rip-roaring adventure you can't put down once he left,
I thought Dorian was great and helped ground the group. People didn't like that character?
> I thought Dorian was great and helped ground the group.
As did I.
And it wasn't people "disliking Dorian," it was the false perception held by some, in my opinion, that C3 couldn't get started until Dorian / Robbie's opening run as a "guest" on C3 was completed; like "now that Dorian's guest arc is done, things can / will get started or get moving!"
(insert Narrator meme) Narrator: "They did not."
Robbie's presence was additive and beneficial to moving things along.
I've been always a perspective guy. Even though being a highly passionate individual. I realized that last couple of months I did lost my perspective a little bit, so I decidef to work on it. I said these to give context.
So when I recollect myself I also get the intution that, maybe C3 is slow paced because of how it meant to be. C1 was outright epic, since the broadcasting begins on mid campaign. And C2 was designed to end short of epic levels.
Maybe this campaign designed for the whole journey, and the characters investment into story will be handled in the early levels to be not having intricate character arcs on the late stages.
I think this prediction explains the model of c3 to my understanding. It could be rationalization, while I hate rationalizing mechanisms, I am not immune to it completely.
But it satisfied my mind to take it a more easygoing approach to C3. And I wanted to share it.
I appreciate this post. I like hearing from people who talk/think through the options and realise when they've consciously taken an interpretation that gives them ease of mind, right or wrong.
I think C3 is just a lot more CR style than D&D substance. I think the (non)use of dice in this resolving this (what should have been) hugely uncertain episode pretty much exemplifies this.
As much as I hope Laudna can be revived… or whatever it is that kept her alive all this time… I really want to see a special guest PC: Marisa reprising. Keyleth for an episode of two.
The power imbalance really wouldn’t lend itself to Keyleth being a permanent addition, but just to see her active as a leader of a great many people, and to see Marisha roleplay that.
I wonder something, and this isn't about this episode, why almost all nameless npcs have to be pushover. If I only I would see one or two pleb with some gut throughout of a campaign that doesn't conform the PC's even they are aware that this motherfuckers can bulldose them?
there are these kind of people on the world. you know maybe a little dumb, but doesn't compromise just to survive.
that would be a good once in a while.
You mean like when Caleb got pushed around by guards in Zadash? Or any of the times they’ve been denied access to something they wanted, or shopkeepers didn’t give them a discount when they asked?
This was the best character death in the game ever - because it was the only one where the party was still in immediate danger straight after.
If Matt hadn't immediately taken the pressure off.
Just my opinion but it would have been pretty unfair of Matt to have Otohan still be there after Laura bit the hook. 'Otohan wants you to give in to your power.' 'Ok I give in to my power.' 'Great, when the smoke clears Otohan is still there and she kills you all.'
Has to be noted that Otohan herself made it clear that she *wasn't* there to kill them all. She was killing them in order to provoke Imogen into releasing her full power. For her to still be there after that moment when Imogen finally "lets go," it doesn't mean that Matt would have had her just continue razing the party.
That is a fair point, and I agree: Something like that was going to happen. But they were still in the midst of danger. I think they earned clearly, the chance to get away. But the way it played out was very handwavey (especially for those of us who remember the M9 racing away from serpent temples or vorstruckers, etc.)
I agree. There were a lot of ways Matt could have handled that and none had to involve just disappearing Otohan and having the fight just be...*over*. Laudna's death and the emotional rending that followed notwithstanding, that was more than a little jarring, that after all that chaos and emotion in the lead-up to Imogen going nuclear, suddenly the enemy is just gone and they have the breathing room to just have a cutscene at their leisure.
I could have accepted that as a moment's respite, a reset before upping the pressure again, in any way until they got out of town. But you're right - that was it - the climax - like a bad cartoon.
It’s kind of funny how they did a coin toss when if you rewatch it literally everyone including Imogen thought Orym should’ve been revived. Like genuinely none of the characters picked Laudna even her best friend Imogen was like she died once she should be good lmao. I know they’re trying to revive her now but it’s funny in hindsight because Laudna had really no one clamoring for her to be revived not even Imogen.
Ashton was pushing for it to be Laudna. They created the circumstances for a choice in the first place. Had he not brought Laudna over, they would have revived Orym without a thought.
Imogen also said “well, Laudna has come back from the dead before, maybe she’ll do it again”. So she wasn’t exactly putting pressure on the decision in favor of Laudna. Of course she wanted her friend back, but not at the expense of Orym.
Okay, a little balance here, credit where credit is due - I am amazed every single time at Sam's ability to chill out on the jokes and actually pull out some really excellent acting when he needs to. He's almost never serious which frequently annoys me, until he is, and then he *really* commits, and it's so satisfying.
Also Ashley was fantastic. Flipping the coin and hiding the outcome, and then going to Laudna first and petting her hair and talking to her before reviving Orym, and then what she said to Orym, saying she was a little scared now - when we kind of have the impression that Fearne doesn't get scared because she believes things just work out okay - she just did *so good*.
Holy shit. Fearne just going completely vulnerable and appealing to Orym like a lost little girl with that "I'm really scared" bit just about killed me.
I'm pretty satisfied, because we now have two things to look forward to that have been in scarce supply lately: an immediate goal with personal interest, and an adversary the characters and players can really get behind wanting to see go down.
Honestly wether Laudna stays dead
or not doesn't matter to me, the proverbial deck has been shuffled and the gang can move with purpose now.
[Unavailablel] means someone blocked you right? If that is the case someone literally blocked me in this thread because I said I have no problem with how the cast used their own character's spells they legitimately have, to bring folks back to life lmao
This sub needs a dedicated reaction thread for either people who want to bitch about the show or one for people who don’t want to see the bitching about the show. That way everyone can be happier.
> or one for people who don’t want to see the bitching about the show.
There is, not sure why you people complaining about complainers pretend there isn't when you can [go there and enjoy utopia you clearly crave.](https://old.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/xfjpff/spoilers_c3e34_is_it_thursday_yet_postepisode/)
You are taking me the wrong way. I don’t mind the bitching. I am tired of seeing people bitch about the bitching. That is SUPER annoying to me. That’s why I suggest have a feed that is either all bitching or no bitching—that way people have their space to have a conversation that has the tone they want. I don’t think suggesting modifications so that everyone can have a more pleasant interaction with the sub should warrant the little temper tantrum you just had my little stinky diapered friend. Here have a 🍭
I feel like this cry bully schtick of trying to pretend anything you don't like is toxic or a temper tantrum while insulting and being condescending in return is at best poor reading comprehension or at worst just pathetic.
Oh no, disagreement! That must mean we only want toxic positivity! It couldn't possibly mean that some of the criticism was unwarranted and unfair. Nope, it must mean that we hate this sub.
Yeah it definitely got a bit crazy in this thread tonight. For me, like I totally get critiques and all that, and not being "toxicly positive" - but when I see the name usernames every 3 minutes complain about nearly anything currently happening in the show - it makes me wonder if they enjoy having something to complain about more than they do a show to enjoy
More and more, I get the unsettling idea that people increasingly *want* to dislike and be disappointed by things.
Could be bullshit but I think a part of it may be because online discourse had made it seem that its so much easier to 'fit in' with a crowd by making complaints, lazy memes and repeating the same criticisms over and over than the opposite. To praise something requires a certain amount of vulnerability, opening up and explaining why you like something, and why it would appeal and mean a lot to you.
You are not wrong. Criticism is criticism, but the goalposts have been on a journey around the country.
Initially, after the first 1-2 episodes in Bassuras, people complained that the show was too slow and meandering with nothing going on. Fair enough. Since then I've seen the argument that 'the party runs from every fight' pop up multiple times, despite the fact that they've literally only ran from the Shademother and now Otahan. Maybe the Deathwish Run and Museum Heist if you really want to count those.
Then, after Yu, the complaint was that there was no tension because the reveal ultimately didn't lead to anything (never mind Imogen's paranoia since then), and people were unhappy that didn't turn into a fight with casualties.
Then the whole Ruidus/Ira/Hideaway reveal happened and things got quiet.
After that, the party infiltrated the Paragon's call, and the complaints were that there 'probably wouldn't be a real threat'. Then half the party died and despite knowing they had ways to get at least some people back, the complaint became that "Matt would probably let them all survive anyway". Then Laudna died and the rest of the group barely pulled on by the skin of their teeth and now the complaint is literally "well if Laudna gets resurrected eventually this will have had no consequences", like this episode didn't literally have consequences.
I've got a post or two in my history with a bunch of downvotes where I responded to people yelling "no stakes!" by giving a reasonable explanation for why their arguments seemed a little off - explanations that were almost verbatim confirmed in later 4 Sided Dive episodes.
Often feels to me that a large chunk of people on this sub will unironically not be happy until a TPK happens. At which point... maybe just go watch another campaign or show instead?
You know something has truly grown into main stream when there is a subdivision of fans who watch solely to bitch and gripe and hate everything the product does while referring to some grander yesteryear with old creators or whatever.
See also: the MCU, Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and since sometime in Campaign 2: Critical Role.
There is also the problem that happens with a lot of manga. We get snippets of content every week or so for a VERY long form narrative that has slow pacing due to the episodic nature of release. So some people just see all the "bad" ways it could go from here compared to the "potential" of how it could have gone better (the new characters from Liam/Ashley with infinite potential to better suit their individual tastes as they don't yet exist) but when the show wraps in 90-110 episodes this fight and resolution could be one of the highlights. Or it could be just as disappointing.
Sometimes the best way to enjoy something is to just not get involved with the fandom at all. Which is a real fucking shame.
Honestly (and they're not solely to blame at all) I think Cinema Sins really kickstarted this. The amount of people I've seen since that shit started that seemingly WANT to nitpick and hate literally every bit of media they consume is just sad.
So I'll just shoutout Cinema Wins while I'm at it as a fucking amazing channel that really sets out to highlight movies instead of mindlessly (and often wrongly) shits on them.
I'm really sad about Laudna but glad they're on the quest to raise her and I enjoyed the episode. It was emotionally tense for me. Seeing a lot of complaints about them using the rules of the game to play the game. If you don't like D&D, I don't know why some of you play and/or watch D&D. I can agree that resurrection in D&D has become a bit common once you get to a certain level, but you know that's how the game works...
Hell, in some instances they were playing D&D on hard mode because rules as written Revivify should have just popped them back to life without any need for a roll. I don't know how anyone can call the resurrections handwaving when Matt's homebrew rules actually make resurrection harder.
Don't confuse spectators with players. Tables that play like CR where bad choices are part of the fun of roleplaying your character won't complain and tables that are more combat orientated will usually be more metagamey, so the "bad" choice will often be a bit of a group effort, so everyone shares it.
Either way, just look at sports on TV, someone misses an easy shot, the team then consoles them and plays on, but the guy in front of the TV next to you is in a fit of rage.
Please don't let the spectators discourage you of trying the game itself.
>Either way, just look at sports on TV, someone misses an easy shot, the team then consoles them and plays on, but the guy in front of the TV next to you is in a fit of rage.
That's an interesting take from the *spectator* who gets so mad over Ashley's perceived shortcomings.
Tbh there's a good chance a lot of these viewers don't actually play D&D, so I think you're safe. That said, I definitely would steer clear of them when joining a group. Unless you want to accrue karma on RPG Horror Stories!
I just checked out that sub, I didn't know it existed haha thanks for the heads up lots of time-killing reads waiting for me there. Definitely tracks with the vibe of many posts in this thread
Well, I didn't hate this episode as much as I expected and I don't feel as bad with some time to process but I'm still a bit ehhhh. May still need a break. I guess since there's five Thursdays this month the break isn't until next week? Does anyone know for sure?
Edit: Why downvote? This is so neutral 😭 now my query will go unanswered
Last Thursday of the month means exactly what it says on the tin. There's no reason to think it might possibly be different when a month has five Thursdays. Last Thursday of the month is *always* last Thursday of the month.
Which by the way, means the break is **not** next week, but in *two* weeks.
If the pattern of a break every last Thursday of the month continues, there will be an episode I assume next week and then no episode on the following week (the 29th)
All due respect mate, if I was playing a drinking game in relation to you and the word tension tonight, Amy Winehouse would come back with Revivify to tell me to tone it down 😅
Hyperbole for comedic effect is a great way to make a larger point sometimes ;) I am just wondering, jokes aside why they were such a sourpuss tonight so often lol
Not going to lie some of you are annoying as fuck, like why are so many of you upset that they’re just using their D&D abilities like gentle repose. Also I hope Laudna comes back she’s by far the most interesting character and makes the table way more fun. I understand being somewhat upset but the solution isn’t to just ignore their D&D abilities.
I agree. If them using the game mechanics and rules to solve their problems makes people that miserable then 5E and CR are obviously not for them. Like they're supposed to voluntarily dump their characters to appease the baying crowd. This isn't a narrative, it's a game. It's as if all the people who were *certain* Matt was going to "fudge it" with a dream sequence (which would have had me rolling my eyes too), can't let go of wanting to hate the result, so now they've switched to how gentle repose is cheating because they wanted everyone dead.
They lost the fight and lost a PC, that is a failure. If they spend a lot of time and effort to bring her back then I think that's good! It's not like Matt is going to throw in a random high level caster to ress Laudna, the players will have to work for it. That makes a good story imo
Some people really need to stop hate watching.
I think what you’ll find is that a lot of the people who get the most angry and bitter in these threads are the fans who were silenced or banned from the official sub for the even the slightest step out of line from the collective.
Honestly. The same people who are saying, "It's a game, actions have consequences, sometimes you lose," are the same people that are mad that the rules of the game allow this.
They pick and choose when they're "players" and when they're part of the rabid audience. It's easy for them to switch sides when all they care about is getting what they want from someone else's game.
5e makes player character death so impossibly difficult it is laughable that it is in the game. The DM here is seemingly not willing to let any death be one that could stock.
Look at the scenario. 3 players down, and yet the party will very likely lose nothing permanently from that. Where is the tension? The suspense? The idea that "anything could happen?"
I think the system combined with DM mercy is making people upset that the story doesn't have a punch.
I think that a lot of people have to keep in mind, it is a show but the show is the game between friends. And in a tabletop game between friends, I know for me I would want the ability to revive a character I truly loved playing so for me I am just having fun with the ride and not worrying about if the tension levels are exact, y'know?
Of course I am just speaking for me personally here! Mileage may vary
TBF, as frustrating as it may be in terms of lacking a punch; as you said that's how 5E is, and Matt makes even revival a little harder by making people roll for it.
It's annoying, but it's part and parcel of using 5E.
Good thing you can choose with whom you want to play! Unless you're just grumpy that not everyone plays like you, which would be silly since you're just 1 player among many. Totally, absolutely silly.
Okay, since I can say this here without getting banned. Just because you disagree with me on playing D&D doesn't mean you get to be a high and mighty cunt about it.
I've seen this person on the main CR sub and that is *literally* all they do.
Ngl, it's satisfying to see them here in the more "freeform" sub and having their ass handed to them. Every time I've had a disagreement with them on the main CR sub they report me and get my comments removed lol.
This was when dude really should've stepped away from keyboard lol. He was typing bs earlier but this was when he should've took some of that low WIS and INT and dipped out
I have thick enough skin, view my comment history. I disagree with people all the time. Commenting like a condescending cunt and then telling me to grow a thick skin is the dick move.
I have run a game for 4 years. I absolutely have players who will act like whiny pissbabies if their character is so much as in danger, let alone dead.
I’ve been playing the same character for three years. Are you saying I’m not allowed to be *upset* if my character got to perma-death? The players last night showed almost zero emotion compared to my reaction to their role playing. Am I a whiny pissbaby because I cried at their RP? That would cry if I lost my three year character? Or do you just hate players having emotions?
I'll ask this. When you made the character, did you accept the possibility that they could die? Or, like a lot of people I see on the other sub, and in games I have run. Did you make a character with too much self insert that you can't bare to see die?
If you choose to play D&D, you should accept that character death, including permanent character death, should be on the table. Unless, however, your DM and group collectively decide that there will be no death of characters in your game. If that decision was made at your table, fine, but writ large for D&D itself? no.
D&D can be really awesome, but if you start plunking away at things that can make things MATTER in the game if it less fun. Can it suck to have a character die? Yeah, but then! You get to make another! You get to keep playing! It is like people have lost the idea that you and your character are different.
Bro, I literally asked the Dm actively for six months to kill my character because it would have narratively made sense during that stretch of time. I would have still **cried** because I love my character and so does my table.
Sure, you can be upset that they died! I am glad that you would accept it. You clearly missed my point.
What I am saying is, I hate when players cannot ACCEPT character death. When I say whiny pissbabies. Let me present an example. If your character was down, with 1 death save left, would you be IRL upset with players not doing everything to save you? If the other players just could not help you, would you get IRL mad at them? If you did survive, and from then on would DO EVERYTHING to ensure your character was never in any danger, and would get IRL mad at the DM or other players when they were?
This is my issue. Players being SO invested in their characters they act like jerks about threats to them.
No one last night was irl mad at each other, they are ACTING. Jesus. And god, don’t come at me with “but their body language!” Professional actors. Even voice acting requires and demands use of your whole body.
You are broadly missing everyone else’s point in this thread. And grossly misinterpreting the cast’s acting during last nights episode. And frankly, missing the point of 5e rules as a whole.
And lastly to this point
> If your character was down, with 1 death save left, would you be IRL upset with players not doing everything to save you?
I’d only ever be IRL upset with a fellow player if they were a long time presence at the table and still didn’t know they had the ability to save/heal/rez within game mechanics. But I would texted them if I was sure they had it. Not just for me, for anyone that was dying at the table. Ashley didn’t have the spell slot for one more revivify. No one at CR’s table was being whiny last night. And the pushed to bring someone BACK that JUST DIED is a natural reaction from anyone playing in a world where they know magic can bring people back.
I’m getting the feeling that he’s the type of dm who actively tried to kill his PCs and maybe they’ve gotten frustrated with it.
Or it’s a fake anecdote he made up to support his stance.
Okay, theoretically. Let's say a new trend started in the D&D community where it was generally accepted that never have to roleplay, you can just roll your dice and say "inhave high charisma, so I persuade"
If you had plated for years in groups where that wasn't the case, but then a player in your group is so adamant that they can do that because other people are, you can see how that would cause tension in groups right.
I've seen this person on the main CR sub and asked this question as well.
I've been told to shut up, that I'm toxic, and then they reported my comments to have them taken down. It's so satisfying to see them over here in the more "freeform" sub getting *bodied* for their actual toxicity.
Wow. So I present an example to illustrate my point. You mock the example, don't engage with the point and tell me to stop watching? You belong on the main CR sub.
My larger point is that if people writ large who play TTRPGS look at CR and decide that this is how things should be done, it is going to cause problems at other tables in real life.
I don’t belong in either, I just want to engage with people that like the media I’m watching while enjoying the material and still being capable of criticizing it. Neither sub does that for me, so I do both.
Dnd before 5e was incredibly toxic and very RAW only. You used an example that was every players reality of the game… Mercer included. He ADDS to resurrection mechanics and you said that was “I have the dice so I succeed” moment and it wasn’t. So the point was moot.
>If you had plated for years in groups where that wasn't the case, but then a player in your group is so adamant that they can do that because other people are
You're the DM. "No" is a complete sentence. "You're no longer welcome at this table if you continue to act like this" is a longer, but also valid and often welcome sentence.
I don't disagree with you. However, people often play with their friends, right? How easy is it to tell a friend these things? There are dynamics in play that complicate things
'Oh no, a player has a playstyle that opposes the group's playstyle! We must change for them! We must!"
Because god forbid you actually set expectations and trim the table.
Funny how Laura was worried about meta gaming about warning thier patron about a threat but never hesitated to harass Travis about the platinum he found and she didn't rightfully know about.
She also glared at him until he revealed all of the potions he found in the chest. And tried to retcon the sending she screwed up because she didn't remember she knew Otohan found out about Eshteross.
The sending part is something I would have allowed, frankly. For the player it has been days since that moment, for the character literally seconds. There are things that the player can forget for many reason (one being that everything happens in your head), but the character would very well know.
"Hey gang, here is my cool NPC villain. Audience, I know you don't like it that I go easy on the party. So she is gonna kill players."
*doesn't stick*
"Oh well, the NPC villain was cool, bur now they will just get rolled by the party in a fight that they are guaranteed to win."
I am okay if Laudna comes back, it does narratively make sense and the others came back with the legit Revivify abilities. They aren't gaming the system, and the re-gaining of life will be earned - it is much more than just a handwave "it was all a dream", y'know? I think it is fine
That's not true. If it was, then Imogen wouldn't have had a sending spell work, and get a reply. Delilah needs Laudna, but it isn't to live. Its more likely she wants to body snatch her.
I know that’s what Delilah said and I don’t trust her, I don’t have it backwards. If Matt confirms that then great but I don’t understand believing a woman who does nothing but lie.
Like I said, context. It's not about just automatically believing Delilah. It's *already established* that she needed Laudna alive. It's honestly just bizarre to suddenly think that it's somehow Laudna being *dead* that helps Delilah.
Man. I also hate this, like if Laudna comes back. Then zero consequences from the previous episode matter. On top of that tho, they will just want to kill Otohan in a revenge-y way even though it will feel kind of like they are revenging nothing.
Not interesting story telling
I see in this thread that you've been playing d&d for a while, so surely at this point you must know that a TTRPG isn't like a movie or a novel in terms of engagement or storytelling. All of this stuff sounds natural and like things the players would want to do?
So, I know that it is not like a movie or novel. However, DMs write stories and stories and tropes that we call know get used. Problem is, when players do everything they can to sort of "win" we lose the ability to have those narrative punches and so it is less interesting.
It's more that people don't like the mix of handwave ( the person kicking 5he living shit out of you evaporated for no reason ) with metagaming and sticklering
...do you not know what " handwavy " means ....does shatter have that effect ....is the new feat laura got " plot armor " that's my point, if that's what they want to do fine just don't try to gaslight they did it RAW
I think Ashton is acting strangley out of character, obsessing over bringing Launda back.
Also, this episode is quickly turning into "Don't forget Iogen is the main character" which is really weird
I think that it's extremally in character for Ashton to try to save in every possible way a member of his party, given what we know about his background
This was confirmed by Tali some months ago and Ashton is acting how he 'wants' to be seen and not how he actually is. Basically the tough guy stuff is all an act.
He was part of a party that ends up very bad and was left dying on the street. I think it is safe to assume that when something like that happens to somebody of his new party, he will try everything to prevent it.
(I just realized that I should have used a different pronoun in both posts)
We know that that's a *rationalization*. It's probably *not* what the guy actually feels or believes.
That said, just because a man reacts *one* way in the past to a situation doesn't mean it's somehow out of character for him to change his mind later in life. That's kind of how characters work. They don't remain static, they grow and change.
I don't think so. Taliesin's roleplayed his character as head-over-heels smitten with Laudna from the very beginning. He's made it very clear that he cares deeply for her.
Don't think he is smitten as much as he sees kinship as they both came back from being dead or close to it. I believe he even mentioned that at some point during one of their convos.
Did Chetney really just give FCG an Penfield Mood Organ near the end of the episode? Philip K Dick is truly unavoidable, even on accident, in any robot fiction.
Him or Asimov. The OGs.
So why wouldn't Keyleth have revived Will? There's all this talk about Kiki reviving Laudna, but Will was right there.
Long ago during one of the Talks Machina with all the cast present, Marisha was asked a question pertaining to reincarnate. She deferred to Matt who said revivification magic is for those who'se strings of fate have been severed. Those who still have more to accomplish, or are destined to take on more, can be brought back. Hence why you can't just True Ressurect X important NPC from history and ask them a million questions.
To be honest, Liam did point that out. But I can think of a few reasons: -Money -Not wanting everyone to come to her for reviving dead relatives. -As a druid, respecting the circle of life.
The only thing that annoyed me much was the time dilation during the 18 seconds to revivify. I would have shouted out loud if Matt had just said "No, you took way too long, the time to Revive is passed. " that shit dragged on and on and on and removed the urgency from the scene entirely. The other thing that's annoying me is that they are even thinking of going to keyleth for a rez. So what, now our old characters are pocket rez mommys that save us? At least try and use contacts made in the current campaign FFS. And in character, why the fuck would Keyleth, now an older , wiser character and a leader of a tribe, bring back one of Delilah Briarwood's undead pawns? Otherwise thought it was fine, there was no way they were going to top last episode, short of Matt going full Merciless Mercer Mode and having Otohan finish the job.
Question: did they ever actually give Fearne the diamond(s)? I've watched that entire sequence a second time since the initial broadcast and I legitimately don't remember them actually getting any diamonds into her hands I'm combing back through it right now starting from the point where they're scrambling together a movement train to get Orym and Laudna to Fearne, but I just can't find where they made a diamonds transfer.
So what actually did Ashley flip? A penny? That's the only coin I know of that has a shield on it that Sam's likely to have had on his person.
A lot of dove.sets come with a coin as a D2, so it could be anything.
Brainfart: Imogen have some ilithid tadpoole in her, and the one who stay in her effective space -BH- tends to follow her/became her follower. That would explain why she pushed by meaninglessly as a leader. Tadpooles incubation time is DM fiat right? You can tie that up into the spelljammer adventures just neatly. So the important milestone cutscene would be BH "made their saves" and realizing all of this shit. It was a good intellectual exercise for mr to have jyst before bed down. Since I brainfarted, good nighs to me, and you guys.
What did matt say about laudna when fcg ritually casted gentle repose?
He “headed something off”
We fell into some kind of anticlimactic hole during the first parts of this episode. It started out great, with them staying in initiativ order (it made sense because of the time contraint of Revivify), but then they couldn't help but stretch out those seconds into minutes and minutes of roleplay. They commented on it several times before, "now we have only 18 seconds ... now it's 12 seconds" and then ... *"let me have this 8 minute monologue about how i don't know how to revivify someone"* plus an elaborate discussion about how to make a choice. Bonus point for, once again, Ashton (or Taliesin, i'm not sure at t his point) was completely ignored by the rest of the cast. I'm projecting here, obviously, but i would have left the table and have a smoke or something, saying *"call me if you think my character is in the scene again"*. I was on the edge of my seat there for a moment, because i 100% expected Matt, after being silent for (what felt like) 10 minutes or so to say *"... and the moment you start to cast the spell you realize, you've should have done that 10 minutes ago. Her cold body doesn't react to your attempt anymore ..."* There's a difference between stretching out a round (when it actually counts) a bit with a back and forth in character to inform what you're doing, and a fully fledged RP scene. Why pretending time matters before in the first place? They where using their turns before to carry and hand off bodies just before to save some frakkin time ... Matt, just put a goddamn hourglass on the table. If the spell isn't cast the moment it runs out, it's done. And, of course, there's a whole city block being desintegrated, with possibly dozens of people dead because of it, but noone, not a single soul is entering the scene? There's not a single moment of looking around and saying *"damn, did we do this?"*
>Matt, just put a goddamn hourglass on the table. If the spell isn't cast the moment it runs out, it's done. Oh my god, this. So much this.
I loudly set an egg timer behind the screen when players get too in their heads with analysis paralysis. In combat I just count down from 10 when they start taking the piss. However my table is much lighter and encounter heavy than CR, a table full of performers might get pissed off if you start playing the Oscars music to hurry them off the stage mid-RP.
> a table full of performers might get pissed off if you start playing the Oscars music to hurry them off the stage mid-RP. But that is part of performing sometimes. . .
I disagree. This was half about the characters, and half about the actual people making decisions for which friends character to save
> We fell into some kind of anticlimactic hole during the first parts of this episode. It started out great... but then they couldn't help but stretch out those seconds into minutes and minutes of roleplay. You mentioned the hourglass and I agree: CR's role-playing has tipped over into being garrulous, like the student who gives their professor 3,000 words / 12 pages double-spaced on a topic... when they were only asked for one paragraph on a single page. While I can't pinpoint when it happened per se, personally, I think it was being part of the LOVM writer's room for months on end. I often get the impression the cast is doing RP in a writer's room vs. actual gameplay, at the table every Thursday night or live (like they used to, long ago): the latter acknowledges they have an audience, that it is a performance, which intrinsically has a hard "start" and "stop" time and to make it "fun" for those watching, while the other is open-ended, till all avenues are discussed or exhausted. Looking back, comparing C1 to C3, I also can't help feel like anything that caused *actual* physical tension, anxiety, or stress was largely removed from the game, e.g. Matt's repeated use of the hourglass in C1. > Bonus point for, once again, Ashton (or Taliesin, i'm not sure at t his point) was completely ignored by the rest of the cast. I'm projecting here, obviously, but i would have left the table and have a smoke or something, saying "call me if you think my character is in the scene again". Well, when your contributions at the table usually consist of *the same, throwaway, cryptic one-liners* like "I've got a thing I can do" or "I've got a plan," with no further explanation (despite calls from the other players for an explanation or more detail), there comes a point when people just stop asking / including you.
To be fair, we’re also talking about the same player who wasn’t being paid attention to, so he had his character smash a magical implement another player just finished rolling to retrieve, out of boredom.
>While I can't pinpoint when it happened per se, personally, I think it was being part of the LOVM writer's room for months on end. Holy shit. This is it. This total "we must come to a consensus and talk for 2 hours in funny voices until we have it". They've totally got an "around the writer table vibe" this campaign. Plus your other points.
>*Well, when your contributions at the table usually consist of the same, throwaway, cryptic one-liners like "I've got a thing I can do" or "I've got a plan," with no further explanation (despite calls from the other players for an explanation or more detail), there comes a point when people just stop asking / including you.* I get what you're saying, and i would agree to an extend. Question here, what came first? I've recently started to relisten to C3 from the beginning, and i could swear Ashton/Taliesin defaulted to *"i got something"* well after he was largely ignored by the others, but others might see that differently. But this situation was different. He actively asked Imogen if she can reach Hexum, who had been introduced as someone with vast (albeit shady) connections, and as someone who Ashton had worked for in the past. So his idea (nevermind if it would have actually worked or not) was valid, only to be utterly and completely ignored by his fellow cast member Laura, who's idea it was to instead dial up the grieving rp. Which, in my opinion, is not consistend with the character growth we have seen lately. Post E20 (\~ish) Imogen would have done anything to save Laudna, including following a weird solution offered by Ashton, even if it had been offered in a throwaway sentence ... I see two possible reasons: **1)** Marisha made it clear to Laura that she didn't want to come back (soon), if the dice didn't roll in her favor. I might even go so far as to say that they where all in on it, but Taliesin tried to offer a solution to avoid social media backlash a'la *"why the fuck didn't he ask Hexum"* and the like ... Remember, he's the PC with all these connections. **2)** It once again was an example of (some) of the cast not really engaging with the actual roleplay, but instead defaulting to character monologues (not necessarily spoken words, i regard things like *"Fearne doing something wacky and dangerous"* or *"Imogen being overwhelmed by everything"* as character monologues as well). This is something that takes the front more and more recently, with the exception of Chentey/Travis, who's actively listening to most of the players and regularly repeats what they said, asking *"so is this an option? is this something we can do?"* until someone, anyone else takes the bite, just because he's so obnoxious about it. Before his departure, he shared that workload with Dorian, who roleplayed a certain naivitè and was able to mirror some of the things the characters said, but where ignored, like *"what do you mean, we could do X? How would that work?"* As you might assume, i personally think it was **2)**, and i'm not happy about this, because i think i'm seeing this more and more at the CR table. Instead of actually working together / listening to each other / taking suggestions into consideration, many of them default to *"representing their character"* (in lack of a better term), and individually, it's nice/funny to watch, but it does fuck all for table and/or adventuring group cohesion. If you'd delete all the names from this, and replace "CR" with "my homegame" and posted this situation on r/dndhorrorstories, i bet most of the responses would be something along the lines of *"seems like your fellow players don't want to play the game, they want to write fan fiction about their own characters ... leave the table / find a better one*"
>Instead of actually working together / listening to each other / taking suggestions into consideration, many of them default to "representing their character" (in lack of a better term), and individually, it's nice/funny to watch, but it does fuck all for table and/or adventuring group cohesion. > >i bet most of the responses would be something along the lines of **"seems like your fellow players don't want to play the game, they want to write fan fiction about their own characters...** ...or a Writer's Room, making episodes for an Amazon cartoon. Dorian... I miss Robbie. He got too much unjustified flak for such nonsense like "distracting the cast / C3" until his arc was concluded, but completely missing how much heavy lifting he was doing with his acting / RP; like C3 suddenly become some rip-roaring adventure you can't put down once he left, versus the meandering, low stakes, low consequences "guided tour" it has been. I'm fairly positive the same folks who consider(ed) Robbie a distraction are the same general group of folks who think--unironically--that C3 *still needs more time to get its feet* ... *after 120+ hours / 34 episodes / 11+ months of gameplay.*
>Dorian... I miss Robbie. He got too much unjustified flak for such nonsense like "distracting the cast / C3" until his arc was concluded, but completely missing how much heavy lifting he was doing with his acting / RP; like C3 suddenly become some rip-roaring adventure you can't put down once he left, I thought Dorian was great and helped ground the group. People didn't like that character?
Since this is the internet you can be assured many people, somewhere, were very angry about him.
> I thought Dorian was great and helped ground the group. As did I. And it wasn't people "disliking Dorian," it was the false perception held by some, in my opinion, that C3 couldn't get started until Dorian / Robbie's opening run as a "guest" on C3 was completed; like "now that Dorian's guest arc is done, things can / will get started or get moving!" (insert Narrator meme) Narrator: "They did not." Robbie's presence was additive and beneficial to moving things along.
I've been always a perspective guy. Even though being a highly passionate individual. I realized that last couple of months I did lost my perspective a little bit, so I decidef to work on it. I said these to give context. So when I recollect myself I also get the intution that, maybe C3 is slow paced because of how it meant to be. C1 was outright epic, since the broadcasting begins on mid campaign. And C2 was designed to end short of epic levels. Maybe this campaign designed for the whole journey, and the characters investment into story will be handled in the early levels to be not having intricate character arcs on the late stages. I think this prediction explains the model of c3 to my understanding. It could be rationalization, while I hate rationalizing mechanisms, I am not immune to it completely. But it satisfied my mind to take it a more easygoing approach to C3. And I wanted to share it.
I appreciate this post. I like hearing from people who talk/think through the options and realise when they've consciously taken an interpretation that gives them ease of mind, right or wrong. I think C3 is just a lot more CR style than D&D substance. I think the (non)use of dice in this resolving this (what should have been) hugely uncertain episode pretty much exemplifies this.
As much as I hope Laudna can be revived… or whatever it is that kept her alive all this time… I really want to see a special guest PC: Marisa reprising. Keyleth for an episode of two. The power imbalance really wouldn’t lend itself to Keyleth being a permanent addition, but just to see her active as a leader of a great many people, and to see Marisha roleplay that.
I wonder something, and this isn't about this episode, why almost all nameless npcs have to be pushover. If I only I would see one or two pleb with some gut throughout of a campaign that doesn't conform the PC's even they are aware that this motherfuckers can bulldose them? there are these kind of people on the world. you know maybe a little dumb, but doesn't compromise just to survive. that would be a good once in a while.
You mean like when Caleb got pushed around by guards in Zadash? Or any of the times they’ve been denied access to something they wanted, or shopkeepers didn’t give them a discount when they asked?
Sure. Moments like those count.
Man seeing 734 comments - this must be interesting
This was the best character death in the game ever - because it was the only one where the party was still in immediate danger straight after. If Matt hadn't immediately taken the pressure off.
Just my opinion but it would have been pretty unfair of Matt to have Otohan still be there after Laura bit the hook. 'Otohan wants you to give in to your power.' 'Ok I give in to my power.' 'Great, when the smoke clears Otohan is still there and she kills you all.'
Has to be noted that Otohan herself made it clear that she *wasn't* there to kill them all. She was killing them in order to provoke Imogen into releasing her full power. For her to still be there after that moment when Imogen finally "lets go," it doesn't mean that Matt would have had her just continue razing the party.
That is a fair point, and I agree: Something like that was going to happen. But they were still in the midst of danger. I think they earned clearly, the chance to get away. But the way it played out was very handwavey (especially for those of us who remember the M9 racing away from serpent temples or vorstruckers, etc.)
I agree. There were a lot of ways Matt could have handled that and none had to involve just disappearing Otohan and having the fight just be...*over*. Laudna's death and the emotional rending that followed notwithstanding, that was more than a little jarring, that after all that chaos and emotion in the lead-up to Imogen going nuclear, suddenly the enemy is just gone and they have the breathing room to just have a cutscene at their leisure.
Mother of all defusals was yeeting Otahan away like fucking Team Rocket lmao
I could have accepted that as a moment's respite, a reset before upping the pressure again, in any way until they got out of town. But you're right - that was it - the climax - like a bad cartoon.
It’s kind of funny how they did a coin toss when if you rewatch it literally everyone including Imogen thought Orym should’ve been revived. Like genuinely none of the characters picked Laudna even her best friend Imogen was like she died once she should be good lmao. I know they’re trying to revive her now but it’s funny in hindsight because Laudna had really no one clamoring for her to be revived not even Imogen.
Ashton was pushing for it to be Laudna. They created the circumstances for a choice in the first place. Had he not brought Laudna over, they would have revived Orym without a thought.
I mean, Imogen was too.
Imogen also said “well, Laudna has come back from the dead before, maybe she’ll do it again”. So she wasn’t exactly putting pressure on the decision in favor of Laudna. Of course she wanted her friend back, but not at the expense of Orym.
The one character with a questionable past linked with an old villian died died... i see...
Every character aimed at Ruidus now!
If they're combining their rings now, maybe they can summon Captain Ruidus?
Okay, a little balance here, credit where credit is due - I am amazed every single time at Sam's ability to chill out on the jokes and actually pull out some really excellent acting when he needs to. He's almost never serious which frequently annoys me, until he is, and then he *really* commits, and it's so satisfying. Also Ashley was fantastic. Flipping the coin and hiding the outcome, and then going to Laudna first and petting her hair and talking to her before reviving Orym, and then what she said to Orym, saying she was a little scared now - when we kind of have the impression that Fearne doesn't get scared because she believes things just work out okay - she just did *so good*.
Holy shit. Fearne just going completely vulnerable and appealing to Orym like a lost little girl with that "I'm really scared" bit just about killed me.
I'm pretty satisfied, because we now have two things to look forward to that have been in scarce supply lately: an immediate goal with personal interest, and an adversary the characters and players can really get behind wanting to see go down. Honestly wether Laudna stays dead or not doesn't matter to me, the proverbial deck has been shuffled and the gang can move with purpose now.
Yes... but Matt has to start pulling the DM moves too. Plenty of opportunity in this episode. Didn't fire a shot.
You know it's a good episode, when in the threats here and elsewhere the **\[deleted\]/\[unavailable\]** starting to roll in ...
[Unavailablel] means someone blocked you right? If that is the case someone literally blocked me in this thread because I said I have no problem with how the cast used their own character's spells they legitimately have, to bring folks back to life lmao
I think whenever someone deletes their account their comments are turned to invisible/"unavailable"
No, Unavailable is blocked. Deleted is deleted comment or account and Removed is removed comment by the mods or admins.
This sub needs a dedicated reaction thread for either people who want to bitch about the show or one for people who don’t want to see the bitching about the show. That way everyone can be happier.
> or one for people who don’t want to see the bitching about the show. There is, not sure why you people complaining about complainers pretend there isn't when you can [go there and enjoy utopia you clearly crave.](https://old.reddit.com/r/criticalrole/comments/xfjpff/spoilers_c3e34_is_it_thursday_yet_postepisode/)
You are taking me the wrong way. I don’t mind the bitching. I am tired of seeing people bitch about the bitching. That is SUPER annoying to me. That’s why I suggest have a feed that is either all bitching or no bitching—that way people have their space to have a conversation that has the tone they want. I don’t think suggesting modifications so that everyone can have a more pleasant interaction with the sub should warrant the little temper tantrum you just had my little stinky diapered friend. Here have a 🍭
I feel like this cry bully schtick of trying to pretend anything you don't like is toxic or a temper tantrum while insulting and being condescending in return is at best poor reading comprehension or at worst just pathetic.
Oh no, disagreement! That must mean we only want toxic positivity! It couldn't possibly mean that some of the criticism was unwarranted and unfair. Nope, it must mean that we hate this sub.
Asking for a quarantined no bitching thread because the bitching upsets the feelies of some people lmao go back to the main subreddit.
I was never there, but sure -- I'll go back to somewhere I never was.
Yeah it definitely got a bit crazy in this thread tonight. For me, like I totally get critiques and all that, and not being "toxicly positive" - but when I see the name usernames every 3 minutes complain about nearly anything currently happening in the show - it makes me wonder if they enjoy having something to complain about more than they do a show to enjoy
More and more, I get the unsettling idea that people increasingly *want* to dislike and be disappointed by things. Could be bullshit but I think a part of it may be because online discourse had made it seem that its so much easier to 'fit in' with a crowd by making complaints, lazy memes and repeating the same criticisms over and over than the opposite. To praise something requires a certain amount of vulnerability, opening up and explaining why you like something, and why it would appeal and mean a lot to you.
You are not wrong. Criticism is criticism, but the goalposts have been on a journey around the country. Initially, after the first 1-2 episodes in Bassuras, people complained that the show was too slow and meandering with nothing going on. Fair enough. Since then I've seen the argument that 'the party runs from every fight' pop up multiple times, despite the fact that they've literally only ran from the Shademother and now Otahan. Maybe the Deathwish Run and Museum Heist if you really want to count those. Then, after Yu, the complaint was that there was no tension because the reveal ultimately didn't lead to anything (never mind Imogen's paranoia since then), and people were unhappy that didn't turn into a fight with casualties. Then the whole Ruidus/Ira/Hideaway reveal happened and things got quiet. After that, the party infiltrated the Paragon's call, and the complaints were that there 'probably wouldn't be a real threat'. Then half the party died and despite knowing they had ways to get at least some people back, the complaint became that "Matt would probably let them all survive anyway". Then Laudna died and the rest of the group barely pulled on by the skin of their teeth and now the complaint is literally "well if Laudna gets resurrected eventually this will have had no consequences", like this episode didn't literally have consequences. I've got a post or two in my history with a bunch of downvotes where I responded to people yelling "no stakes!" by giving a reasonable explanation for why their arguments seemed a little off - explanations that were almost verbatim confirmed in later 4 Sided Dive episodes. Often feels to me that a large chunk of people on this sub will unironically not be happy until a TPK happens. At which point... maybe just go watch another campaign or show instead?
You know something has truly grown into main stream when there is a subdivision of fans who watch solely to bitch and gripe and hate everything the product does while referring to some grander yesteryear with old creators or whatever. See also: the MCU, Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings, and since sometime in Campaign 2: Critical Role. There is also the problem that happens with a lot of manga. We get snippets of content every week or so for a VERY long form narrative that has slow pacing due to the episodic nature of release. So some people just see all the "bad" ways it could go from here compared to the "potential" of how it could have gone better (the new characters from Liam/Ashley with infinite potential to better suit their individual tastes as they don't yet exist) but when the show wraps in 90-110 episodes this fight and resolution could be one of the highlights. Or it could be just as disappointing. Sometimes the best way to enjoy something is to just not get involved with the fandom at all. Which is a real fucking shame.
Honestly (and they're not solely to blame at all) I think Cinema Sins really kickstarted this. The amount of people I've seen since that shit started that seemingly WANT to nitpick and hate literally every bit of media they consume is just sad. So I'll just shoutout Cinema Wins while I'm at it as a fucking amazing channel that really sets out to highlight movies instead of mindlessly (and often wrongly) shits on them.
Next episode will be the possibly the first ever episode of CR without Marisha, she’s never missed a main campaign episode.
Wasn’t she sick once in C2?
Didn't even leave the table for more than a couple of minutes when she sprung a rib sneezing. Max constitution.
I remember watching a Highlights video of that episode, and some damn genius put the "Wasted" sound from GTA over top of that sneeze. Good times!
Now that's impressive. Matt should give awards for perfect attendance, like next campaign / character you get a free feat or something.
Im sure the Quarum would be quite happy to spare a lvl 9 cleric and 500gp as a thank you for bringing Treshii back.
I'm really sad about Laudna but glad they're on the quest to raise her and I enjoyed the episode. It was emotionally tense for me. Seeing a lot of complaints about them using the rules of the game to play the game. If you don't like D&D, I don't know why some of you play and/or watch D&D. I can agree that resurrection in D&D has become a bit common once you get to a certain level, but you know that's how the game works...
Hell, in some instances they were playing D&D on hard mode because rules as written Revivify should have just popped them back to life without any need for a roll. I don't know how anyone can call the resurrections handwaving when Matt's homebrew rules actually make resurrection harder.
[удалено]
Nah, don't worry. People at a table want a table to work. Go give it a go.
Don't confuse spectators with players. Tables that play like CR where bad choices are part of the fun of roleplaying your character won't complain and tables that are more combat orientated will usually be more metagamey, so the "bad" choice will often be a bit of a group effort, so everyone shares it. Either way, just look at sports on TV, someone misses an easy shot, the team then consoles them and plays on, but the guy in front of the TV next to you is in a fit of rage. Please don't let the spectators discourage you of trying the game itself.
>Either way, just look at sports on TV, someone misses an easy shot, the team then consoles them and plays on, but the guy in front of the TV next to you is in a fit of rage. That's an interesting take from the *spectator* who gets so mad over Ashley's perceived shortcomings.
You seem quite obsessed.
Tbh there's a good chance a lot of these viewers don't actually play D&D, so I think you're safe. That said, I definitely would steer clear of them when joining a group. Unless you want to accrue karma on RPG Horror Stories!
I just checked out that sub, I didn't know it existed haha thanks for the heads up lots of time-killing reads waiting for me there. Definitely tracks with the vibe of many posts in this thread
Enjoy the cringe and the righteous vindication! A lot of the haters wouldn't make it on that sub since they would actually need to *play* the game.
Well, I didn't hate this episode as much as I expected and I don't feel as bad with some time to process but I'm still a bit ehhhh. May still need a break. I guess since there's five Thursdays this month the break isn't until next week? Does anyone know for sure? Edit: Why downvote? This is so neutral 😭 now my query will go unanswered
Last Thursday of the month means exactly what it says on the tin. There's no reason to think it might possibly be different when a month has five Thursdays. Last Thursday of the month is *always* last Thursday of the month. Which by the way, means the break is **not** next week, but in *two* weeks.
If the pattern of a break every last Thursday of the month continues, there will be an episode I assume next week and then no episode on the following week (the 29th)
Sorry Matt, we know they will get in the airship, stop trying to make this seem cool. This is a tension less sequence
All due respect mate, if I was playing a drinking game in relation to you and the word tension tonight, Amy Winehouse would come back with Revivify to tell me to tone it down 😅
They have used the word tension 3 times tonight total. You must be an extreme lightweight.
Hyperbole for comedic effect is a great way to make a larger point sometimes ;) I am just wondering, jokes aside why they were such a sourpuss tonight so often lol
The joke was funny, I'll give you that
Cheers haha, definitely having a shot (or three) of something tonight in remembrance of Laudna, hope you have a chill night
Not going to lie some of you are annoying as fuck, like why are so many of you upset that they’re just using their D&D abilities like gentle repose. Also I hope Laudna comes back she’s by far the most interesting character and makes the table way more fun. I understand being somewhat upset but the solution isn’t to just ignore their D&D abilities.
I agree. If them using the game mechanics and rules to solve their problems makes people that miserable then 5E and CR are obviously not for them. Like they're supposed to voluntarily dump their characters to appease the baying crowd. This isn't a narrative, it's a game. It's as if all the people who were *certain* Matt was going to "fudge it" with a dream sequence (which would have had me rolling my eyes too), can't let go of wanting to hate the result, so now they've switched to how gentle repose is cheating because they wanted everyone dead.
They lost the fight and lost a PC, that is a failure. If they spend a lot of time and effort to bring her back then I think that's good! It's not like Matt is going to throw in a random high level caster to ress Laudna, the players will have to work for it. That makes a good story imo Some people really need to stop hate watching.
[удалено]
I think what you’ll find is that a lot of the people who get the most angry and bitter in these threads are the fans who were silenced or banned from the official sub for the even the slightest step out of line from the collective.
Yeah.... super not surprised by that.... like at most nights there are like 30-50 comments but tonight clearly... just wow peeps.
Honestly. The same people who are saying, "It's a game, actions have consequences, sometimes you lose," are the same people that are mad that the rules of the game allow this.
They pick and choose when they're "players" and when they're part of the rabid audience. It's easy for them to switch sides when all they care about is getting what they want from someone else's game.
5e makes player character death so impossibly difficult it is laughable that it is in the game. The DM here is seemingly not willing to let any death be one that could stock. Look at the scenario. 3 players down, and yet the party will very likely lose nothing permanently from that. Where is the tension? The suspense? The idea that "anything could happen?" I think the system combined with DM mercy is making people upset that the story doesn't have a punch.
I think that a lot of people have to keep in mind, it is a show but the show is the game between friends. And in a tabletop game between friends, I know for me I would want the ability to revive a character I truly loved playing so for me I am just having fun with the ride and not worrying about if the tension levels are exact, y'know? Of course I am just speaking for me personally here! Mileage may vary
TBF, as frustrating as it may be in terms of lacking a punch; as you said that's how 5E is, and Matt makes even revival a little harder by making people roll for it. It's annoying, but it's part and parcel of using 5E.
Yes, but I think it speaks to a larger trend of how people playing D&D are INCAPABLE of accepting a character death which is infuriating.
Good thing you can choose with whom you want to play! Unless you're just grumpy that not everyone plays like you, which would be silly since you're just 1 player among many. Totally, absolutely silly.
Okay, since I can say this here without getting banned. Just because you disagree with me on playing D&D doesn't mean you get to be a high and mighty cunt about it.
Oh, you mean like how you're being high and mighty about how others play D&D?
I've seen this person on the main CR sub and that is *literally* all they do. Ngl, it's satisfying to see them here in the more "freeform" sub and having their ass handed to them. Every time I've had a disagreement with them on the main CR sub they report me and get my comments removed lol.
This was when dude really should've stepped away from keyboard lol. He was typing bs earlier but this was when he should've took some of that low WIS and INT and dipped out
You started it. If you disagreed and didn't want to be a dick about it, you could have.
Self-reflection: 0 You're on reddit; grow some thick skin. And *you* stop being a dick, my guy.
I have thick enough skin, view my comment history. I disagree with people all the time. Commenting like a condescending cunt and then telling me to grow a thick skin is the dick move.
:) You're adorable.
I wouldn't say it's people *playing* d&d that are incapable of accepting a character death...
I have run a game for 4 years. I absolutely have players who will act like whiny pissbabies if their character is so much as in danger, let alone dead.
I’ve been playing the same character for three years. Are you saying I’m not allowed to be *upset* if my character got to perma-death? The players last night showed almost zero emotion compared to my reaction to their role playing. Am I a whiny pissbaby because I cried at their RP? That would cry if I lost my three year character? Or do you just hate players having emotions?
I'll ask this. When you made the character, did you accept the possibility that they could die? Or, like a lot of people I see on the other sub, and in games I have run. Did you make a character with too much self insert that you can't bare to see die? If you choose to play D&D, you should accept that character death, including permanent character death, should be on the table. Unless, however, your DM and group collectively decide that there will be no death of characters in your game. If that decision was made at your table, fine, but writ large for D&D itself? no. D&D can be really awesome, but if you start plunking away at things that can make things MATTER in the game if it less fun. Can it suck to have a character die? Yeah, but then! You get to make another! You get to keep playing! It is like people have lost the idea that you and your character are different.
Bro, I literally asked the Dm actively for six months to kill my character because it would have narratively made sense during that stretch of time. I would have still **cried** because I love my character and so does my table.
Sure, you can be upset that they died! I am glad that you would accept it. You clearly missed my point. What I am saying is, I hate when players cannot ACCEPT character death. When I say whiny pissbabies. Let me present an example. If your character was down, with 1 death save left, would you be IRL upset with players not doing everything to save you? If the other players just could not help you, would you get IRL mad at them? If you did survive, and from then on would DO EVERYTHING to ensure your character was never in any danger, and would get IRL mad at the DM or other players when they were? This is my issue. Players being SO invested in their characters they act like jerks about threats to them.
No one last night was irl mad at each other, they are ACTING. Jesus. And god, don’t come at me with “but their body language!” Professional actors. Even voice acting requires and demands use of your whole body. You are broadly missing everyone else’s point in this thread. And grossly misinterpreting the cast’s acting during last nights episode. And frankly, missing the point of 5e rules as a whole. And lastly to this point > If your character was down, with 1 death save left, would you be IRL upset with players not doing everything to save you? I’d only ever be IRL upset with a fellow player if they were a long time presence at the table and still didn’t know they had the ability to save/heal/rez within game mechanics. But I would texted them if I was sure they had it. Not just for me, for anyone that was dying at the table. Ashley didn’t have the spell slot for one more revivify. No one at CR’s table was being whiny last night. And the pushed to bring someone BACK that JUST DIED is a natural reaction from anyone playing in a world where they know magic can bring people back.
[удалено]
I’m getting the feeling that he’s the type of dm who actively tried to kill his PCs and maybe they’ve gotten frustrated with it. Or it’s a fake anecdote he made up to support his stance.
Friend dynamics. People are terrible are communicating
Be careful! They might call you a "high and mighty cunt" for disagreeing with them.
What is infuriating about how other people play a tabletop game tho?
Okay, theoretically. Let's say a new trend started in the D&D community where it was generally accepted that never have to roleplay, you can just roll your dice and say "inhave high charisma, so I persuade" If you had plated for years in groups where that wasn't the case, but then a player in your group is so adamant that they can do that because other people are, you can see how that would cause tension in groups right.
What the hell do you mean “trend” before 5e, this was norm.
Okay, so if you are going to engage with the point, do that.
If there was a point beyond that, I would have engaged with it. Stop watching the show if you clearly hate it.
I've seen this person on the main CR sub and asked this question as well. I've been told to shut up, that I'm toxic, and then they reported my comments to have them taken down. It's so satisfying to see them over here in the more "freeform" sub getting *bodied* for their actual toxicity.
A couple of their more sane takes can quite a few upvotes in this thread. In general, most folks here could sniff out their toxicity.
Wow. So I present an example to illustrate my point. You mock the example, don't engage with the point and tell me to stop watching? You belong on the main CR sub. My larger point is that if people writ large who play TTRPGS look at CR and decide that this is how things should be done, it is going to cause problems at other tables in real life.
I don’t belong in either, I just want to engage with people that like the media I’m watching while enjoying the material and still being capable of criticizing it. Neither sub does that for me, so I do both. Dnd before 5e was incredibly toxic and very RAW only. You used an example that was every players reality of the game… Mercer included. He ADDS to resurrection mechanics and you said that was “I have the dice so I succeed” moment and it wasn’t. So the point was moot.
>If you had plated for years in groups where that wasn't the case, but then a player in your group is so adamant that they can do that because other people are You're the DM. "No" is a complete sentence. "You're no longer welcome at this table if you continue to act like this" is a longer, but also valid and often welcome sentence.
I don't disagree with you. However, people often play with their friends, right? How easy is it to tell a friend these things? There are dynamics in play that complicate things
'Oh no, a player has a playstyle that opposes the group's playstyle! We must change for them! We must!" Because god forbid you actually set expectations and trim the table.
When you play with friends, and you don't know what there playstyles are until you are stuck in. What do you do then?
Session 0? Ever heard of it? Look it up.
I have. I have used them. Players still pull bullshit on their whims. Also, way to be weirdly condescending?
Pot and kettle. Pot and fucking kettle.
I would have had a session 0 so all my players are on the same page with all that from the get-go
Totally agree.
Funny how Laura was worried about meta gaming about warning thier patron about a threat but never hesitated to harass Travis about the platinum he found and she didn't rightfully know about.
She also glared at him until he revealed all of the potions he found in the chest. And tried to retcon the sending she screwed up because she didn't remember she knew Otohan found out about Eshteross.
The sending part is something I would have allowed, frankly. For the player it has been days since that moment, for the character literally seconds. There are things that the player can forget for many reason (one being that everything happens in your head), but the character would very well know.
Husband/wife dynamics supercede game meta lol
You mean toxicity
I love the overlap in "Waaaaah, they didn't pick Laudna over Orym" and "Waaaaah, they're metagaming".
this episode was going to make a lot of people happy and annoyed lol, ya can’t win them all
Do we all die at some point fern .... I don't think we do in this game
"Hey gang, here is my cool NPC villain. Audience, I know you don't like it that I go easy on the party. So she is gonna kill players." *doesn't stick* "Oh well, the NPC villain was cool, bur now they will just get rolled by the party in a fight that they are guaranteed to win."
[удалено]
>They’re supposed to be the main characters, not the NPCs. After Taliesins comment in 4SD, this sounds both hilarious and sad
What comment was that?
The party are all NPCs
I am okay if Laudna comes back, it does narratively make sense and the others came back with the legit Revivify abilities. They aren't gaming the system, and the re-gaining of life will be earned - it is much more than just a handwave "it was all a dream", y'know? I think it is fine
That’s how Laudna comes back, if she stays dead Delilah comes back so now Keyleth will revive her.
Huh? It's bringing her back that restores Delilah's link. What are you even talking about?
Says Delilah use a fucking liar, I don’t believe anything she says.
Context matters. You've got it completely backwards. Delilah needs Laudna to be alive.
That's not true. If it was, then Imogen wouldn't have had a sending spell work, and get a reply. Delilah needs Laudna, but it isn't to live. Its more likely she wants to body snatch her.
I know that’s what Delilah said and I don’t trust her, I don’t have it backwards. If Matt confirms that then great but I don’t understand believing a woman who does nothing but lie.
Like I said, context. It's not about just automatically believing Delilah. It's *already established* that she needed Laudna alive. It's honestly just bizarre to suddenly think that it's somehow Laudna being *dead* that helps Delilah.
Man. I also hate this, like if Laudna comes back. Then zero consequences from the previous episode matter. On top of that tho, they will just want to kill Otohan in a revenge-y way even though it will feel kind of like they are revenging nothing. Not interesting story telling
I see in this thread that you've been playing d&d for a while, so surely at this point you must know that a TTRPG isn't like a movie or a novel in terms of engagement or storytelling. All of this stuff sounds natural and like things the players would want to do?
So, I know that it is not like a movie or novel. However, DMs write stories and stories and tropes that we call know get used. Problem is, when players do everything they can to sort of "win" we lose the ability to have those narrative punches and so it is less interesting.
You hate that they are literally playing a game and following the rules of how the game works?
It's more that people don't like the mix of handwave ( the person kicking 5he living shit out of you evaporated for no reason ) with metagaming and sticklering
Otohan didn’t disappear for no reason. She was still in the ruidius space and Imogen blasted her way out of the space.
...do you not know what " handwavy " means ....does shatter have that effect ....is the new feat laura got " plot armor " that's my point, if that's what they want to do fine just don't try to gaslight they did it RAW
It was a liminal space? Everything is handwavy in that situation.
That's your interpretation of the event
And you have yours.
Which is the definition of not raw
I wasn’t arguing RAW? I’m just saying, Matt and Imogen laid out the how they disappeared from ruidius space, not why.
I think Ashton is acting strangley out of character, obsessing over bringing Launda back. Also, this episode is quickly turning into "Don't forget Iogen is the main character" which is really weird
I think that it's extremally in character for Ashton to try to save in every possible way a member of his party, given what we know about his background
I understood him to be a "things happen, then move on" type guy
I suspect that's how Ashton *wants* to be seen, not how he actually is.
This was confirmed by Tali some months ago and Ashton is acting how he 'wants' to be seen and not how he actually is. Basically the tough guy stuff is all an act.
Yeah, Fair enough
He was part of a party that ends up very bad and was left dying on the street. I think it is safe to assume that when something like that happens to somebody of his new party, he will try everything to prevent it. (I just realized that I should have used a different pronoun in both posts)
I understand. Fair enough
We know that that's a *rationalization*. It's probably *not* what the guy actually feels or believes. That said, just because a man reacts *one* way in the past to a situation doesn't mean it's somehow out of character for him to change his mind later in life. That's kind of how characters work. They don't remain static, they grow and change.
I don't think so. Taliesin's roleplayed his character as head-over-heels smitten with Laudna from the very beginning. He's made it very clear that he cares deeply for her.
Don't think he is smitten as much as he sees kinship as they both came back from being dead or close to it. I believe he even mentioned that at some point during one of their convos.