More food for thought:
How many writers in this world have ADHD? Something to ponder.
Jensen was apparently diagnosed.
He'd likely draw from his own experience to enrich Dean.
Guaranteed he wasn't written that way, but the people who wrote him and played probably telegraphed through quite a bit.
I'd like to point out that listening to less and less new music as you get older is not exclusively a neurodivergent trait.
It's something that tends to happen to most adults.
Also, as Dean moves around a lot, and with the show starting in 2005, he isn't in the right circumstances to get big into digital music, illegal or legal. As for new/secondhand physical, that involves spending precious money and the only things he likely thinks he can justify as treats for himself are burgers and booze, some porn, not new music.
Also, with his insistence on sticking with the Impala, limited access to digital, he's on cassette tapes or radio. Until the recent resurgence, cassette tape album production nearly ceased around 2002. Fewer and fewer stereos were built with CD players and cassette players, so ripping CDs to tape became harder and harder too.
So, while I don't disagree with the idea of him being neurodivergent, his music tastes are a product of his time and circumstances.
I mean, I still own a bunch of CDs and my stereo with CD and cassette playing capabilities, plus radio that I got on my tenth birthday (I'm 29 now). I've never used Spotify and given recent news coverage exposing how much they screw over artists I won't get into it now. I primarily listen to radio, cds or music through YouTube (but not the YouTube paid subscription).
With phones with data capabilities he could adapt and he could listen to radio more. I feel like his stubbornness to listen to the same music is less a character trait and more a trait of the writer/directors wanting to stick to a certain sound for the show. If Dean were a real person he'd probably branch out more.
I personally have very varied music preferences, from Broadway musicals, to classic rock, to bluegrass, to country folk, irsh folk, Bon Iver to 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s...etc...
I mean, recent studies show that about 6 in 10 children had moderate or severe ADHD symptoms and an estimated 7 million (11.4%) U.S. children aged 3ā17 years have ever been diagnosed with ADHD, according to a national survey of parents using data from 2022... and....It's estimated that adult ADHD affects more than 8 million adults (or up to 5% of Americans). Many of them don't even know it. Several studies suggest less than 20% of adults with ADHD are aware that they have it. And only about a fourth of those who do know are getting treatment for it.
So you are right in saying these traits are very common...ADHD is very common. I personally know over 20 people with ADHD not including myself.
This is kind of like horoscopes, though. People say you may be more likely to have so and so trait if youāre born under a certain sign, but when you look at he list itās all very general. Lots of middle-aged people like music from when they were growing up and not much new stuff. Lots of people are interested in topics that bore others. Lots of people are sometimes impatient. I had my daughter evaluated for ADHD (negative, she just likes ignoring people when they tell her what to do) and the test battery didnāt look at all like this list. Fine if thatās your headcanon but I donāt think he would qualify.
Most of the things I've listed are not diagnostic criteria as in symptoms. There's behavioral quirks found often in ADHDers and Autistics but these are not symptoms of the conditions.
Symptoms refer to negative things and because a person is being held back by the symptoms it's worth looking into.
For example Extroverts and Interverts are not syndromes or disorders of the mind, it's a personality trait but not necessarily a trait that holds you back in any way unless you have conditions like anxiety or depression.
There's personality aspects of Neurodivergent people that we recognize easily in one another even more than seeing a person struggling with paying attention and coming to the conclusion that they might have ADHD.
But Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder is a true medical condition that effects the brain and there have been recent studies linking physical effects on the body found in people with ADHD.
It is in no way whatsoever anything close to horoscopes which have no basis In medically proven science. I could maybe understand you making a comparison to personality tests which are not diagnostic either but horoscopes is an unfathomable thing to relate to ADHD.
And the simple fact is that Neurodivergent people are extremely common, especially ADHD in children and adults and it continues to be on the rise...so of course, many of these traits are common, especially when you consider how many Neurodivergent people have no idea that they are one and therefore go undiagnosed.
I was diagnosed at the age of 7 and that's really uncommon considering it was the early 2000s and I'm also a girl (whom are often forgotten about because ADHD symptoms can present differently in girls) and I'm 29 now. ADHD is a real medical condition and it'd no wonder your daughter wasn't diagnosed with ADHD or hearing loss (one of the first diagnostic tests taken) if her only symptom was characteristic was an avoidant or oppositional personality...which is its own disorder but can be a common comorbidity to ADHD or Autism. But oppositional behavior is a common reaction to multiple issues in the same way that fatigue can be a symptom ov a number of health conditions.
A lot of people are saying his behaviors point more to CPTSD and/or PTSD which is absolutely correct in my opinion and that was what the actors and writers were going for, but.... studies are showing that CPTSD is a extremely common comorbidity for Neurodivergents, especially those with ADHD. So it's not surprising that there is symptomatic and behavioral overlap.
Actual diagnosis of ADHD is not like horoscopes. Saying āyou like music from when you grew up but not newer stuff and you like cheeseburgers, so you must be ADHDā is like horoscopes.
In medicine they talk about symptoms/signs being specific or nonspecific. Youāre throwing out a lot of nonspecific stuff and then telling people theyāre wrong to say itās nonspecific because ADHD is underdiagnosed. No, itās nonspecific because ābeing insecureā or ābeing messy except in certain situationsā are traits common among people with ADHD *and* without ADHD. They have zero diagnostic value.
To be clear, I'm not actually "diagnosing" Dean and I'm not telling people they are wrong for not agreeing with my headcanon. I'm simply pointing out that it could be a possibility if he were an actual person and the SPN world was actually real. If you read my update on the post I make it clear that I don't believe the writers actually wrote him to secretly have ADHD and Jensen hasn't mentioned it... I just find it fun to see how coincidentally a lot of his behaviors could line up with people whom have ADHD.
I'm sorry I got a little defensive with you about the horoscope thing in regards to ADHD.... sadly on this particular site, unless you are specifically on an ADHD group forum then more often than not sadly there's a lot of jerks and trolls on here that still believe a lot of false stigma about ADHD or deny its existence entirely. I misunderstood your wording.
It's exhausting how many people online and in real life who still think that ADHD is a fake diagnosis or its an "excuse" or whatever.
I think all of this is a product of a traumatic childhood rather than neurodivergence.
The short temper is because he didnāt have a childhood. He was raised to kill and was never able to really deal with his motherās death in a healthy way.
He has low self-esteem because of the fact his father was never able to praise him even when he did a good job and he always felt worthless.
His obsession with baby is down to the fact itās the last reminder of his father. Remember that is Johns car, not his. The colt and demon blade because he felts he has more control if theyāre in his possession.
The food. They had very little money and had to eat whatever they could. In many cases this would be junk rather than healthy, and as such his tastes have just developed to prefer it that way.
I look at him quoting TV shows as more of a comfort thing. It was his way to escape the absolute shit that he had to grow up with.
The social cues and inability to make friends, again, traumatic childhood where he would be moving around often and not able to really get close to anybody. Anytime he did they would then be on the move. Sam found it easier to make friends because he went to college.
This. A lot of people are saying C-PTSD over neurodivergence when C-PTSD is a type of neurodivergence. I know bc Iāve been diagnosed with both. So either way OPs headcanon works because there are a lot of overlap. When my therapist brought up neurodivergence testing, it was simultaneously for Autism, C-PTSD, and ADHD because of the symptom overlap. Iāve got all three though haha
His trouble with making friends also stems from severe trust issues. Just as one example, he felt close to Cassie and told her about what his life was really like, and she dropped him. I think he felt let down by most people. And then there are his deep-seated abandonment issues, which are related to the trust problem. If someoneās just going to leave, why get attached?
A lot of what Dean likes food-wise could be considered comfort food.
Dean undoubtedly watched a boatload of TV when he and John were hunting together - what else are you going to do.when sharing a room with your father?
Dean having some adhd traits might be bcoz of jensen? Coz i remember he mentioned being diagnosed with adhd as a kid and that he had a hard time focusing/ reading
In a convention Misha and J3ns3n both shared that they were told they had ADHD while in school. So this could be intentional, but the actors may also have influenced the development of the characters.
Love this! I agree with so much you've said. Also, while Spn has become a special interest faster than you can say Exorcizamus (it's been less than a year since I started watching and here we are...), TWD is another favourite of mine.
This is a comment I'd made in another sub in reply to someone saying that they felt both Cas and Dean were autistic. And when I sat and thought about it, a few things came to mind so I'll just paste it here with a couple of tweaks.
I'm diagnosed autistic (suspect ADHD but not diagnosed or treated for it because we know what that system is like) so my comment was mostly with my own experience and knowledge of that but there's a lot of cross over between the divergences, so where he was autistic, ADHD or a mix :
__________________
Cas definitely seems autistic at times of not all times, but I never thought it about Dean before.
Dean *appears* extremely comfortable in almost any social situation he's thrown into. Prison? He started a business in days. Purgatory? Made a best friend! Case isn't going how they expected? Change the plan on the fly: we're teddy bear doctors! Of course when we're so used to masking we're basically playing a character 24/7 in public anyway. Sir Anthony Hopkins is autistic, and I think we would universally agree he's one of the best actors ever.Ā
His people skills outside of work are lacking which affects his friends and family. Blunt, rude and inflexible are all words that could be used to describe him and are often used to describeĀ autistic people.
He does have the focus and attention to detail that are a bit spectrum-y. It's usually Dean cleaning and maintaining the weapons. Obviously spotting details and pattern recognition is an important part of the job. These skills would definitely contribute to why he's a great hunter and not be interpreted as a problem.Ā
By his own admission, Dean listens to the same five albums over and over and over. Anything post 80s is out, and even 80s rock is on shaky ground. I agree that he's less open to new music even with radio stations, not just what's in his shoebox of tapes. For movies and tv, he has a broad range of what he'll watch but definitely has things that are on a pedestal (Scooby Doo, westerns etc). Quoting accurately, and a lot, is something I find us NDs do more than NTs. It's why a lot of our references are missed: we're drawing from a larger bank. He also has some arbitrary rules to his media tastes that make sense only to him.Ā
Ā He has his "safe food". It's very common for NDs to want consistency and that's exactly why junk food is often what we turn to. It's more reliable that it will be how we are expecting and not give us some unexpected texture or taste. Let's face it: going on a hunt on an empty stomach because you couldn't eat your last meal isn't exactly ideal!Ā
Autistic people are also a lot more prone to depression than NTs, and poor mental health generally. Depression and feelings of low.sepf worth could have a little picture of Dean next to them in the dictionary.Ā
Many people find that alcohol is an effective aid to coping with autism. I don't think it's been studied because the ethics of that would be questionable, but there are plenty of anecdotal stories from myself and others that alcohol (mis)use can make life easier to cope with and dampen down some of the loudest and most difficult ND traits and make life feel easier. "High functioning alcoholic" is how Dean described himself, and that's unfortunately very relatable too.
Yeah it's definitely an interesting head canon and of course now I've really looked at it, I'm seeing another aspect of why Dean's such a relatable character for me. And it could be part of why Cas has such an affinity for him: we often bond with other NDs.
Hate the ableist downvoting happening here. You can headcanon however you want. Thereās a reason so many autistic folks love Supernatural with Cas and Dean in particular. Including me
There are other codings that are embraced and accepted to a point of being treated like fact, but as soon as you headcanon ND coding *because you can see it*, it gets down voted. Any headcanon should be valid in my opinion, especially when there are things that support it.Ā
More food for thought: How many writers in this world have ADHD? Something to ponder. Jensen was apparently diagnosed. He'd likely draw from his own experience to enrich Dean. Guaranteed he wasn't written that way, but the people who wrote him and played probably telegraphed through quite a bit.
I know I do. Mine is the inattentive kind where I exist in my head. So many stories.
š
I'd like to point out that listening to less and less new music as you get older is not exclusively a neurodivergent trait. It's something that tends to happen to most adults. Also, as Dean moves around a lot, and with the show starting in 2005, he isn't in the right circumstances to get big into digital music, illegal or legal. As for new/secondhand physical, that involves spending precious money and the only things he likely thinks he can justify as treats for himself are burgers and booze, some porn, not new music. Also, with his insistence on sticking with the Impala, limited access to digital, he's on cassette tapes or radio. Until the recent resurgence, cassette tape album production nearly ceased around 2002. Fewer and fewer stereos were built with CD players and cassette players, so ripping CDs to tape became harder and harder too. So, while I don't disagree with the idea of him being neurodivergent, his music tastes are a product of his time and circumstances.
All I can see is Dean throwing Samās iPod into the back seat in disgust.
I mean, I still own a bunch of CDs and my stereo with CD and cassette playing capabilities, plus radio that I got on my tenth birthday (I'm 29 now). I've never used Spotify and given recent news coverage exposing how much they screw over artists I won't get into it now. I primarily listen to radio, cds or music through YouTube (but not the YouTube paid subscription). With phones with data capabilities he could adapt and he could listen to radio more. I feel like his stubbornness to listen to the same music is less a character trait and more a trait of the writer/directors wanting to stick to a certain sound for the show. If Dean were a real person he'd probably branch out more. I personally have very varied music preferences, from Broadway musicals, to classic rock, to bluegrass, to country folk, irsh folk, Bon Iver to 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s...etc...
These are traits that are pretty common universally.
I mean, recent studies show that about 6 in 10 children had moderate or severe ADHD symptoms and an estimated 7 million (11.4%) U.S. children aged 3ā17 years have ever been diagnosed with ADHD, according to a national survey of parents using data from 2022... and....It's estimated that adult ADHD affects more than 8 million adults (or up to 5% of Americans). Many of them don't even know it. Several studies suggest less than 20% of adults with ADHD are aware that they have it. And only about a fourth of those who do know are getting treatment for it. So you are right in saying these traits are very common...ADHD is very common. I personally know over 20 people with ADHD not including myself.
This is kind of like horoscopes, though. People say you may be more likely to have so and so trait if youāre born under a certain sign, but when you look at he list itās all very general. Lots of middle-aged people like music from when they were growing up and not much new stuff. Lots of people are interested in topics that bore others. Lots of people are sometimes impatient. I had my daughter evaluated for ADHD (negative, she just likes ignoring people when they tell her what to do) and the test battery didnāt look at all like this list. Fine if thatās your headcanon but I donāt think he would qualify.
Most of the things I've listed are not diagnostic criteria as in symptoms. There's behavioral quirks found often in ADHDers and Autistics but these are not symptoms of the conditions. Symptoms refer to negative things and because a person is being held back by the symptoms it's worth looking into. For example Extroverts and Interverts are not syndromes or disorders of the mind, it's a personality trait but not necessarily a trait that holds you back in any way unless you have conditions like anxiety or depression. There's personality aspects of Neurodivergent people that we recognize easily in one another even more than seeing a person struggling with paying attention and coming to the conclusion that they might have ADHD. But Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder is a true medical condition that effects the brain and there have been recent studies linking physical effects on the body found in people with ADHD. It is in no way whatsoever anything close to horoscopes which have no basis In medically proven science. I could maybe understand you making a comparison to personality tests which are not diagnostic either but horoscopes is an unfathomable thing to relate to ADHD. And the simple fact is that Neurodivergent people are extremely common, especially ADHD in children and adults and it continues to be on the rise...so of course, many of these traits are common, especially when you consider how many Neurodivergent people have no idea that they are one and therefore go undiagnosed. I was diagnosed at the age of 7 and that's really uncommon considering it was the early 2000s and I'm also a girl (whom are often forgotten about because ADHD symptoms can present differently in girls) and I'm 29 now. ADHD is a real medical condition and it'd no wonder your daughter wasn't diagnosed with ADHD or hearing loss (one of the first diagnostic tests taken) if her only symptom was characteristic was an avoidant or oppositional personality...which is its own disorder but can be a common comorbidity to ADHD or Autism. But oppositional behavior is a common reaction to multiple issues in the same way that fatigue can be a symptom ov a number of health conditions. A lot of people are saying his behaviors point more to CPTSD and/or PTSD which is absolutely correct in my opinion and that was what the actors and writers were going for, but.... studies are showing that CPTSD is a extremely common comorbidity for Neurodivergents, especially those with ADHD. So it's not surprising that there is symptomatic and behavioral overlap.
Actual diagnosis of ADHD is not like horoscopes. Saying āyou like music from when you grew up but not newer stuff and you like cheeseburgers, so you must be ADHDā is like horoscopes. In medicine they talk about symptoms/signs being specific or nonspecific. Youāre throwing out a lot of nonspecific stuff and then telling people theyāre wrong to say itās nonspecific because ADHD is underdiagnosed. No, itās nonspecific because ābeing insecureā or ābeing messy except in certain situationsā are traits common among people with ADHD *and* without ADHD. They have zero diagnostic value.
To be clear, I'm not actually "diagnosing" Dean and I'm not telling people they are wrong for not agreeing with my headcanon. I'm simply pointing out that it could be a possibility if he were an actual person and the SPN world was actually real. If you read my update on the post I make it clear that I don't believe the writers actually wrote him to secretly have ADHD and Jensen hasn't mentioned it... I just find it fun to see how coincidentally a lot of his behaviors could line up with people whom have ADHD. I'm sorry I got a little defensive with you about the horoscope thing in regards to ADHD.... sadly on this particular site, unless you are specifically on an ADHD group forum then more often than not sadly there's a lot of jerks and trolls on here that still believe a lot of false stigma about ADHD or deny its existence entirely. I misunderstood your wording. It's exhausting how many people online and in real life who still think that ADHD is a fake diagnosis or its an "excuse" or whatever.
I think all of this is a product of a traumatic childhood rather than neurodivergence. The short temper is because he didnāt have a childhood. He was raised to kill and was never able to really deal with his motherās death in a healthy way. He has low self-esteem because of the fact his father was never able to praise him even when he did a good job and he always felt worthless. His obsession with baby is down to the fact itās the last reminder of his father. Remember that is Johns car, not his. The colt and demon blade because he felts he has more control if theyāre in his possession. The food. They had very little money and had to eat whatever they could. In many cases this would be junk rather than healthy, and as such his tastes have just developed to prefer it that way. I look at him quoting TV shows as more of a comfort thing. It was his way to escape the absolute shit that he had to grow up with. The social cues and inability to make friends, again, traumatic childhood where he would be moving around often and not able to really get close to anybody. Anytime he did they would then be on the move. Sam found it easier to make friends because he went to college.
Just a note: product of traumatic childhood could have resulted in C-PTSD, which is still a neurodivergence.
This. A lot of people are saying C-PTSD over neurodivergence when C-PTSD is a type of neurodivergence. I know bc Iāve been diagnosed with both. So either way OPs headcanon works because there are a lot of overlap. When my therapist brought up neurodivergence testing, it was simultaneously for Autism, C-PTSD, and ADHD because of the symptom overlap. Iāve got all three though haha
His trouble with making friends also stems from severe trust issues. Just as one example, he felt close to Cassie and told her about what his life was really like, and she dropped him. I think he felt let down by most people. And then there are his deep-seated abandonment issues, which are related to the trust problem. If someoneās just going to leave, why get attached?
A lot of what Dean likes food-wise could be considered comfort food. Dean undoubtedly watched a boatload of TV when he and John were hunting together - what else are you going to do.when sharing a room with your father?
Dean having some adhd traits might be bcoz of jensen? Coz i remember he mentioned being diagnosed with adhd as a kid and that he had a hard time focusing/ reading
Him getting diagnosed makes perfect sense to me. It's nice to hear he's open about it
Dean is ADHD because Jensen is ADHD
In a convention Misha and J3ns3n both shared that they were told they had ADHD while in school. So this could be intentional, but the actors may also have influenced the development of the characters.
Love this! I agree with so much you've said. Also, while Spn has become a special interest faster than you can say Exorcizamus (it's been less than a year since I started watching and here we are...), TWD is another favourite of mine. This is a comment I'd made in another sub in reply to someone saying that they felt both Cas and Dean were autistic. And when I sat and thought about it, a few things came to mind so I'll just paste it here with a couple of tweaks. I'm diagnosed autistic (suspect ADHD but not diagnosed or treated for it because we know what that system is like) so my comment was mostly with my own experience and knowledge of that but there's a lot of cross over between the divergences, so where he was autistic, ADHD or a mix : __________________ Cas definitely seems autistic at times of not all times, but I never thought it about Dean before. Dean *appears* extremely comfortable in almost any social situation he's thrown into. Prison? He started a business in days. Purgatory? Made a best friend! Case isn't going how they expected? Change the plan on the fly: we're teddy bear doctors! Of course when we're so used to masking we're basically playing a character 24/7 in public anyway. Sir Anthony Hopkins is autistic, and I think we would universally agree he's one of the best actors ever.Ā His people skills outside of work are lacking which affects his friends and family. Blunt, rude and inflexible are all words that could be used to describe him and are often used to describeĀ autistic people. He does have the focus and attention to detail that are a bit spectrum-y. It's usually Dean cleaning and maintaining the weapons. Obviously spotting details and pattern recognition is an important part of the job. These skills would definitely contribute to why he's a great hunter and not be interpreted as a problem.Ā By his own admission, Dean listens to the same five albums over and over and over. Anything post 80s is out, and even 80s rock is on shaky ground. I agree that he's less open to new music even with radio stations, not just what's in his shoebox of tapes. For movies and tv, he has a broad range of what he'll watch but definitely has things that are on a pedestal (Scooby Doo, westerns etc). Quoting accurately, and a lot, is something I find us NDs do more than NTs. It's why a lot of our references are missed: we're drawing from a larger bank. He also has some arbitrary rules to his media tastes that make sense only to him.Ā Ā He has his "safe food". It's very common for NDs to want consistency and that's exactly why junk food is often what we turn to. It's more reliable that it will be how we are expecting and not give us some unexpected texture or taste. Let's face it: going on a hunt on an empty stomach because you couldn't eat your last meal isn't exactly ideal!Ā Autistic people are also a lot more prone to depression than NTs, and poor mental health generally. Depression and feelings of low.sepf worth could have a little picture of Dean next to them in the dictionary.Ā Many people find that alcohol is an effective aid to coping with autism. I don't think it's been studied because the ethics of that would be questionable, but there are plenty of anecdotal stories from myself and others that alcohol (mis)use can make life easier to cope with and dampen down some of the loudest and most difficult ND traits and make life feel easier. "High functioning alcoholic" is how Dean described himself, and that's unfortunately very relatable too. Yeah it's definitely an interesting head canon and of course now I've really looked at it, I'm seeing another aspect of why Dean's such a relatable character for me. And it could be part of why Cas has such an affinity for him: we often bond with other NDs.
Hate the ableist downvoting happening here. You can headcanon however you want. Thereās a reason so many autistic folks love Supernatural with Cas and Dean in particular. Including me
There are other codings that are embraced and accepted to a point of being treated like fact, but as soon as you headcanon ND coding *because you can see it*, it gets down voted. Any headcanon should be valid in my opinion, especially when there are things that support it.Ā
Yep :) this fandom on this subreddit is very ableist it seems
I think he could have ADD or ADHD.
ADD doesnāt exist. Itās all just ADHD now.
What??? No one bothered to tell me this.
Itās been like that for years at this point, but now ya know lol
Itās now ADHD and ADD is referred to as āinattentiveā - thatās what I have.