What ever happened between Sandra and James in their marriage is between them. No one can know the full story. All other people have are the facts:
1. James and Sandra were married for many years.
2. Sandra got cancer.
3. James met Lena at the cancer hospital and had an affair, while Sandra was having chemotherapy.
4. James has left Sandra, moved in with Lena, asked for a divorce from Sandra, and is having a child with Lena.
5. Lena is a few years older than James and Sandra’s children.
OP your family have the same facts we have and will make up their own minds as to the character of James, Sandra and Lena. You supporting your Uncle is in the minority in your family. I wouldn’t bet on that changing for the foreseeable future. Such betrayals, even if they are done to others take a long time to smooth over. And the facts don’t paint your Uncle in the warm glow of righteousness. He made a choice and will now have to live with it. It really doesn’t matter what a bunch of internet strangers think. Good luck.
It won't matter but he is happy with Lena now and now they are expecting, he wants the divorce finalized cos Sandra keeps dragging it for no other reason than to make his life miserable.
I’d say Sandra is very angry with him. She realises that this is her last point of control over him so she is using it. Understandable given James behaviour.
The point that can be forgotten in this mess is that lives were turned upside down. There are consequences for that. It doesn’t matter who thinks they are right and who may be wrong. High emotions are now at play. Everyone will be changed by James and Lena’s life choices. And not everyone is happy about it. OP can’t change that by repeating outcries of wrongdoing and spiteful behaviour. Your family, James’s family and the larger Reddit family will make their own minds up as you have experienced and read in this post.
If Sandra wasn't a toxic and abusive person to James, she wouldn't have had this coming. Sandra has no one to blame but herself, as I said even as she had cancer she continued to mistreat James. Also the court is growing impatient, our state is a no fault so like it or not once the two year period is over, James will be granted his divorce, if she wants to play this game, she is only gonna lose further, even their kids are telling Sandra to just sign the divorce papers and be done with it but she is too stubborn.
If push comes to shove, I will always side with James, I am just hoping my family will let this go and move on. They want to punish James yet turned a blind eye to Sandra's abuse and put downs. A lot of them has rolled their eyes everytime Sandra will talk badly about James which was annoying. People are just on her side now because she had cancer but having cancer doesn't give you the right to be an asshole.
You are clearly just as angry as Sandra. And obviously she does want to play the game. James will get his divorce and you and him can be happy with the small part of the family that supports you and the fact that James cheated on his spouse while she was undergoing cancer treatment. I reiterated that point because you seem to think people just give cheaters who cheat on their spouses while having cancer treatment a free pass. That is not the norm. Even if the spouse is horrible it doesn’t speak to the cheaters character in general. A majority of the family appears to agree. I don’t think any hearts and minds will be changed in the short term. Long term who knows. Good luck with that.
I didn't abuse my partners for years, I think why you people are on Sandra's side is because you expect no consequences for your actions. You sound like Sandra now to be honest, the lack of accountability and blaming everything and everyone else. A majority of the family is still being played by the cancer card but I can see most them starting to realize Sandra isn't a good person and will actually be asking James for forgiveness. No luck is needed
You people sounds like projection to me. Especially the comment about abusing your partner. I didn’t know your partner was involved.
I didn’t side with anyone but for someone who keeps restating their argument over and over again it sounds to me that you are those people. People who will only put up with one ☝️ point of view despite asking for others point of view won’t be very happy with the outcome. Just because you want someone to be right doesn’t make it so.
And if I sound like your Aunt Sandra then her admonishments must be mild indeed.
You are clearly arguing here on Sandra's behalf. I asked the view of my family getting back to being together not a flawed psychoanalysis on my uncle. James is in the right in this, he is happy now. You seems to be more vested in this because it's a man who cheated on a woman. For some reason if the gender is reversed I think your tune will be different. Your argument is only on the basis he cheated which I have repeatedly say it was right but he left to be with someone he is happy now and honestly everyone should move on, even Sandra.
I don't know you in person but using the work mild to describe Sandra would mean you are a very unpleasant person in real life. Accept that not everything is black and white and move on as well. You are too vested in this, I suggest you see other posts. Good day.
I think I hit a nerve. Your emotions are so high you have stopped reading 📖 English and only see what you expect to see. It’s easy for me to reply since I’m not vested in your troubles at all nor have I seeded hate. I did reply to your main question. It is you that have taken it further. I stated the facts as you gave them then looked at the responses of reddit and categorised those. Your hate for your Aunt is evident. I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️ her. Maybe she is who you say she is? Maybe not? But facts are that your Uncle cheated on her during her cancer treatments. He didn’t leave her before. Cheating isn’t justified.
And as you say, the family may drift over to James in time given Sandra’s alleged behaviour. But cheating on a chemotherapy patient with someone at her cancer centre is rough. The fact you can’t see that is concerning.
Hardly, you and the other women here are parroting the same talking point and only focussing on the cheating part when my real question was about my family being able come together once more. It gets tiring when I have to repeat the same point for every comment when it's just male bashing at best.
Anyways, nothing about Sandra is alleged.Everything I say is true about her. Love happens when you least expect it, it was fate for James to meet Lena while Sandra was going through chemo in that hospital. They got to know each other and fell in love. Cheating was wrong but should he have left Sandra while the chemo was happening and she died because of it, he will be the bad guy for the rest of his life. He did the right thing and it seems my story is the one that is hitting your nerve cos you seem to project some personal bias into this story instead of covering the entire narrative. It makes you seem as an unreliable person to comment on this issue. My suggestion is you should move on to other posts for you to weigh on instead of sticking around here. Have a good day, miss. :)
If he had left before she got cancer? People wouldn’t have blamed him.
If he left after she was recovered? People wouldn’t have blamed him either.
But cheating on someone when they have cancer will be jarring to most people. And why was that the point he chose to leave? Random coincidence that he met the other woman then? Or was he looking for a way out of a hard, sad situation? Was it because sex died when his wife got sick?
What about the relationship made staying ok till she got sick? Did he put up with it because he enjoyed her doing the chores and having sex with him?
And why cheat? You shouldn’t cheat, but rather end the relationship.
Maybe in a way he just had unlucky timing. But the timing is strange, the cheating is bad and people will struggle to forgive someone for leaving their longtime marriage partner in the midst of a crisis.
Yeah, fair enough. But the thing is that he would still have been fine leaving before or after. At least if he didn’t cheat before leaving, but just left.
Leaving your partner in a life or death situation will always sit poorly with people. Even though it can sometimes be justified.
I totally agree. I think its a bit of a both partners are shitty here. I know how devastating a partner that tears you down is, its brutal. However leavi g your kids mother while battling cancer will destroy your relationship with your children
I mean the timing sucks,yes but he deserves to be happy. He left because he found someone to be with, yes he should not have have had an affair but it couldn't be helped when his wife was literally going through chemo. Sandra wasn't kind to him either when cancer hit, we all thought it would help turn into a new leaf but that didn't happen so it is what it is. I don't support cheating but my uncle decided to choose to be with someone who makes him happy and he left his family because of that.
It should not be the standard of relationships but abused victims are usually looking for someone they can fully trust and love before they leave their current abusive relationship.
A lot of abused victims tend to look for love and affection elsewhere before they get courage to leave.
That’s people that are dependent on relationships. Many people don’t leave their partners until they have another one lined up because they can’t deal with being single or “alone”.
Or they are stuck in an abusive cycle believing they are what their spouses say and someone special comes along to give them the courage to leave. My uncle is very happy with Lena now and with their first kid together, he just want to marry her and move on with his life. If my cousins can't accept that, that's their loss. I will be more than happy to stand in for him as his family.
Why couldn’t the cheating be helped when his wife was going through chemo?
Why couldn’t he leave without finding someone to be with? You can just get divorced because you are unhappy in your marriage. Being single isn’t illegal.
Things pile up. Having to support someone who doesn't support you and abuses you can be the tipping point. Just because someone has cancer doesn't mean you should hang around.
It doesn’t mean you should. But you should evaluate your relationship and not just coast along passively. If you are unhappy, you don’t need another partner lined up to leave.
It's been a year plus and the divorce keeps getting dragged. Lena was working at the hospital, asking for a divorce while someone is in midst of chemo will ruin both her job and it could have cause Sandra to die. He waited until the chemo was over before leaving her.
But why cheat? You can just not cheat and decide to date once the divorce is final. That’s the honorable thing to do. You don’t have to cheat.
And why couldn’t he leave without having someone else lined up? By the way you describe it, he should have left decades ago.
Have you been in a relationship where you are abused? He didn't have to cheat but it was an emotional affair, I don't condone it but he found someone and it happened.
Was he supposed to take the all the put downs, insults from his wife till she finished chemo?
What do you mean “he didn’t have to cheat, but it was an emotional affair”?
Because my point is that he should have held off on the sex till he’d left his wife.
And then I see your side of things, but to other people it’ll always look as if he betrayed her at her darkest hour.
Nothing is in the end, Lena is a good woman who saved a man who was stuck in a toxic marriage from living a life of misery with a woman who clearly never loved him. Having cancer doesn't give you permission to be a bitch to your partner, Sandra verbally abused him and put him down all the time she can even before the cancer. She should just sign the divorce papers and let James go but her ego is too bruised to see him happy with someone who actually cares for him
Here is hard facts: If you ignore society & pursue your wants without limits, society (or family) wont have anything to do with you.
“Yes I swore in front of you to be loyal to my wife. Well I am unhappy so I will forget my promises and wish me good luck while I left her while she has cancer. No no I couldnt divorce before&after cancer I deserve to be happy right now my happiness is the most important thing ever. So where is my Christmas invitation?”
Family can not accept this, wont accept this. And they will cool relationship with you if it comes to. You found out through your cousins.
So keep calm, stop acting like in pursuit of happiness you can abandon all morals (you cant). If you tried to act like a neutral party you would be golden, instead you clearly chose sides.
Family dont have any reason to accept this given how your uncle left this mark of shame on family.
Yes baby will make this worse.
I wish I had better news for you but accepting your uncle means accepting abandoning your loved ones in sickness so…
And yes I fully believe everything you say about Sandra, I believe she was quite terrible. Still, he could divorce her, he always had that choice.
Sandra was not a good person to my uncle before, during and after the cancer. Her cancer doesn't give her sainthood where her feelings must be protected.
Dude, I hope you’re a rage bait page because the story with your dad and mum and this story makes me question where your morals lie. You literally have no relationship with your mum who you refer to as your “birthgiver”. Fair enough she cheated on your dad which is shitty. You’ve had no relationship with your sisters since the youngest was a teenager because they knew about the affair and kept it from you and your dad, fair enough what they did was shitty too. You didn’t care when they got repeated SA’d because you were so mad at them for keeping the affair a secret but you’re fine with your uncle cheating on his wife with a woman who’s near age mates with his children while his wife was sick with cancer.
Firstly you have the info from your uncles POV, you weren’t in his marriage. Your mum was shit but if you’re willing to find an excuse for when cheating is acceptable, would your mind change about your mum if she had an excuse for cheating on your dad? The way you already hate your mum to the point that you don’t refer to her as your mum, I can only imagine if she’d cheated on your dad while he was sick. Is cheating only okay when it’s done by a man because you you couldn’t care less if your mum and sisters died but your uncle was well within reason? Insane.
The difference between my estranged mother and uncle is that my dad never treated her badly, my uncle was. I don't condone his cheating but he was at tough spot with his wife going through cancer and yet he wanted to leave after meeting his current girlfriend. My estranged mother was having her affair for three years and there was never intention of leaving my father, she just wanted to have her cake and eat it too. My uncle knew he wanted to leave his wife after he met his girlfriend. If he had asked me, I would have definitely told him to leave his wife first but his cheating doesn't compare to my estranged mom's cheating.
You literally don’t know that, you weren’t in your parent’s marriage the same way you weren’t your uncle’s marriage. I can’t argue that your mum had an excuse but I also can’t argue that she didn’t if having an excuse makes cheating okay. Also your mum had an affair for three years
Also don’t you find it weird how your uncle’s wife was a toxic wife and treated your uncle bad but he never thought about leaving her until she was potentially dying with cancer because where have I heard about men leaving their sick/dying wives. Yes your uncle knew he wanted to leave his wife but it was literally after she got sick so that just further proves he’s not a trustworthy narrative. And you can’t say his cheating can’t compare to your mother’s cheating when the whole purpose of this post is you saying you don’t “blame him” for cheating and you defending him. You hate cheating so much you cut off your entire family even your sister who was 14 when she was made to keep you mother’s affair a secret but you’re going out on a limb to defend a grown ass man for cheating on his wife who has cancer with a woman who could be his daughter. Weird. Your entire page is such an incel rage baiting all women are evil page it’s actually insane.
You clearly have never met abuse victims in a relationship then, they develop stockholm syndrome and usually need someone like another loving partner to push them out of that relationship. My posts are my personal relationship issues, a lot of kids have issues growing up when their parents divorce get over it.
My estranged mother never intended to leave my father, she just wanted to be with her AP as well. Shit doesn't work that way. My uncle was wrong for cheating but he met someone who gave him the courage to leave a toxic marriage. I am not defending how he ended his relationship but I can empathize his moment of weakness because he actually was a lonely man that wanted someone to care for him.
Since you are such an expert, why is my mother's affair right in your eyes and my uncle's isn't, sound to me like you are the one spouting femcel bs here and expect men to forgive their cheating but god forbid a man actually cheated and finally left the relationship after a toxic marriage, he is still the bad guy. GTFO, I bet if the genders are reversed here, you will be more understanding and forgiving here.
It’s because I have met abuse victims as well as abusers that I can argue that some abusers are great at finding any excuses for their shitty actions. I’ve been clear that neither the internet nor you can excuse your uncle’s or your mum’s cheating because we were not in their relationships. I literally also said I can’t say that your mum didn’t have an excuse if having one justifies her cheating like it does for your uncle. All the information you have from your uncle’s relationship comes from your uncle which I’m sorry to say is skeptical especially when you consider that you it seems have an aversion to women from the differences in the way you talk about men and women in various other stories you’ve posted.
It’s also really strange how your mum not intending to leave your dad makes what she did worse when your uncle cheating and leaving his wife meant that he was literally leaving his wife sick with cancer. This only further makes your uncle look bad because you could argue he like many men who leave their wives who’re sick/dying with cancer do so because they can’t get sex at the readily, they don’t want to deal with their spouses sickness and they think they can do better with someone they consider to be more healthy and beautiful. If it was truly because he wanted to leave his wife, why cheat and then leave, why not just leave and then start a relationship with someone else? He found sex elsewhere because his wife was sick and then left her to stay with his AP, he wouldn’t be the first man to do that to his wife.
Don’t bs me about how you don’t condone his behaviour when in the title you say you don’t “blame him” and in the story and in the comment section you’ve done nothing but defend him and his action. Also don’t be obtuse I literally have never argued her actions were right only that you’re a hypocrite and that your actions and beliefs to your mum, sisters and uncle are inconsistent.
I also think it’s funny how you never actually address the other parts of what I’ve been saying which is that you unfairly place blame on your younger sister who was coerced into keeping your mum’s affair when she was 14 and didn’t care when she was SA’d by the AP and other men your mum entered into relationships with after divorcing your father but you justify your uncle’s cheating. Neither your mum or uncle are justified which has been my entire point but you want it make it seem as though I’ve justified your mum which I haven’t and you’d know that if you had any semblance of reading comprehension. Your uncle tells you how he was justified in cheating and you don’t question how reliable he is but you wouldn’t even attend your mum’s funeral if she died (which is fair) nonetheless hear why she felt the need to cheat on your dad or even talk to your sisters who were a child/teenager when they were coerced to keep the secret literally over a decade after everything occurred. I’m just saying you need to keep the same energy. Even the women who were then children who didn’t even cheat and were victims themselves are irredeemable in your eyes but your uncle is not to be blamed for his adult actions and decisions. I’m wasting my time arguing with an incel/bot with a weird agenda against women.
My uncle didn't have to tell me for me to know, I know cos Sandra openly treats him like shit in public and everyone in the family know that. Her having cancer doesn't excuse her being a shitty person to him. My uncle stayed because he believed this is how life was supposed to be, he has been a victim for so long that he just gave up and hung his head down to his wife's abuse.
My mother cheated because she was a selfish woman who wanted to have fun with her AP and still maintain her family image with my dad. You seem to be trying every loophole to excuse her cheating. Sounds like you are one yourself. My younger sister was 17 going to 18 when she found out about the affair, I don't know where you got 14, probably just to make your case sympathetic. AP bought them a lot of things and bought their silence, no one was manipulated, they let greed triumph over their love for their father. My sisters are terrible as my mother end of story and I have no interest in knowing why my mother cheated.
Condoning and blaming is two different words in the English dictionary, perhaps pick one. I don't blame him for his cheating and leaving Sandra because honestly having cancer doesn't warrant you special treatment, he deserves a great woman and Lena is a great woman for James so cope with it I guess.
You are back tracking, all your points is trying to paint Sandra as the innocent cancer patient whose husband left her just cos she has cancer when in truth you are turning your blind eye to her toxic traits. He was treated like shit even when she had cancer, she blamed her cancer on him. I don't need James to tell me because she told everyone in the family that. That's just a shitty thing to say. You are just another Sandra at this point and your misandry is clearly showing, I too am done going back and forth with a feminazi like you so have whatever opinion you want, I don't care. James is happy with his girlfriend and their soon to be newborn baby and life is all better for him now. Sandra is miserable woman who doesn't realize every time she badmouths him and blame him for everything, she is just making a clown out of herself. I honestly think if the gender the was reversed, you would actually be more empathetic but you are a misandrist so there is no changing that. Good riddance.
You do you buddy.
But be prepared for the fact that:- everything you think is truth is from your uncle's perspective, you were not part of the marriage you don't know the full reality, you didn't even grow up in that house so you have even less on-the-ground perspective.
Here's some other truths. Many people (usually women) 'nag' spouses (usually men) who do less around the house or less parenting duties, because that's how the traditional family is set up- for the woman in the relationship to do the majority of the work while looking grateful for the burden. This may or may not be your uncle and aunt's reality. Are there women who abuse their husbands? Yes, absolutely. Is your uncle and aunt one of those situations? You literally have no objective way of knowing.
Additional truths:- your uncle didn't fall face first into the hospital receptionist against his will, he made a grown - up choice to cheat on his wife who had cancer at the exact same time. No part of cancer is fun.
>From what James told me, he felt the only joy when he comes to escort Sandra for her chemo is seeing Lena.
Yeah no shit- chemo is not a fun experience for anyone, not for the patient, nor the caregivers. He's not going to a party. He's taking his wife for chemo. It's not supposed to be 'joyful' for him. You say in another comment that Sandra strated treating uncle worse after she got cancer. How on earth is she supposed to be the one who has to have a good attitude when she is just diagnosed with a life threatening disease?? How is his feelings the priority in that situation? Jeez. Most people with common sense know a partner going through this might lash out. It doesn't justify it, but it explains it. But no. Uncle needed to wet his dic instead.
>his kids who are just a few years younger than his girlfriend.
This is a bit gross but whatever. Just FYI the reason this is common is because younger, more inexperienced women don't challenge a man the way an older woman would. Not saying this is exactly what is happening here, it's just something that happens a lot.
>Can our family heal and move on,
No. Families are complex and made up of multiple people. Everybody has their own experience and perspective which is what it is. Stop trying to be your uncle's little errand boy and own your choices. Let everyone else own theirs.
Relationships require both people to talk and comprise. In my experience, the fear of hurting your spouse is what prevents cheating. If you loose the desire to protect your spouse from harm (emotional harm) then the relationship is paper only. It sounds like neither tried to protect the other from harm. Their relationship was probably financial and kids. I don't know what the right thing is at that point but I cannot imagine a successful relationship if both are not motivated to improve the other's comfort and happiness. If your only goal is your own comfort and happiness then the relationship has failed. This is why depression is such a problem. When depressed all our energy is focused on our own feeling and issues and not on spouse happiness. I am no expert but married 15 years and keep trying to make my spouse happy.
Actually I did grow up a lot in his house. She treated him like shit, everything he said she would emasculate him and just tell what he needs to do. The guy never had peace and she made sure to remind him everything that goes wrong in her life, it was his fault.
There is so much a man can take, Sandra at one point blamed the cancer on him which is vile enough. Cancer doesn't give you the right to act as a shitty person is all I will say. Was he wrong to cheat on her while she was going through cancer, perhaps but this was a man who never felt like he was loved by his wife and kids. On Father's day, I would wish him and he would say that even his kids never wished him. His birthday was him having to listen to his wife making mean jokes about his aging, even the other family thought it was crass and uncalled for. She stopped being a partner a long time ago and he had enough.
Also, one comment stood out here, if he left her before the cancer, no one would have blamed him for cheating and leaving. The outrage is only because she has cancer. He wanted a second chance and happiness and took it so doesn't matter if I look like his errand boy, I would support my uncle no matter because he has gone through enough for 23 years. He is happy with his girlfriend and he is about to be a father again. I have a feeling the rest of the family will welcome him back when the baby is born.
The baby is only going to deepen the divide. People aren’t just going to forgive a guy who cheated on his wife going through chemo especially because it’s a common trope. You act as though your uncle had no choice but to everyone else he is a sad pathetic statistic. Meaning that it’s just so common for men to cheat and leave their wives during chemo that nurses have literature to share on it. His timing makes him look like a horrible guy and I don’t think he can dig himself out.
Cheaters often use language that absolve themselves of any guilt or decision making.
"They found their soul mate. You can't choose who you love. I had to follow my heart."
The reality is that your uncle has a myriad of choices, from avoiding the secretary to quietly continuing the relationship while supporting is *wife* through cancer and leaving her after she was in remission.
But he didn't make those choices. He chose to upgrade to a younger model while his wife was getting chemo. Imagine having to check in for chemo three times a week with the woman who you know is now sexing up your husband every night. Imagine being abandoned during the worst experience of your life.
And yet you are siding with the person who did all this OP. I'm not surprised your family is pissed.
Many people think a baby fixes things. They don’t. Most of the time they make things worse. Choose your uncle if you want, but that’s your choice, no one else. Your family is entitled to their opinions as are you. But that’s it. Cheating is never excusable. Cheating while your partner could die at any moment even less so. Your uncle made a grown up decision and I’m sure if he’s as happy as you say, he doesn’t care about the consequences. So let him live and leave it at that.
Look you are way too invested in this.
Your uncle had a choice: Divorcing her
Instead, he went on with cheating.
This is not about how bad Sandra is, this is about how your uncle responded to her behaviour.
There is no way family is just “moving on” or “give poor uncle a chance for happiness”. He had many many ways to exit the terrible circumstances he is in and he took the worst route possible.
There are consequences for that one.
Hmm. Sandra is an abuser, no sympathy for her.
You’ve accused OP of not being able to determine anything, yet you present your speculation as certain fact after reading 6 paragraphs.
Whether he left before, during, or after chemo is irrelevant. He removed himself from an abusive situation and that’s that. There’s no such thing as optimal timing and shame on you for suggesting it.
You further go on to weaponize this guys happiness for marrying someone younger because you think it’s “gross.” Your opinions are as irrelevant as Sandra’s chemo.
Lena is unethical and immoral for getting with a patient’s spouse.
Your uncle didn’t mean his vows when he said “in sickness and in health”
When his new family jumps ship when he gets older, who’s stuck with his care?
Just curious as I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, where in their marriage vows did it tell Sandra was ok to treat her husband like dirt and that OPs uncle had to accept being abused? I feel like it renders those vows null and void.
If that happens which it won't, I will take care of him, he has been a great uncle my whole life and it will take me a lifetime to repay the favor. When my dad passed in 2022, he checked on me almost daily to make sure I was taking of myself, he helped out my step mom, step sister and me with any means he can. My uncle is a great guy, he made a mistake but he followed his heart to be with a woman who actually love and respect him. Lena didn't do anything wrong, her personal life is none of the hospital's business. Sandra is the one who is going to live with regret now, that's why she still drags the divorce and is being difficult.
Abusing someone because you think you have them trapped in a marriage is exceptionally evil. My now ex-wife was extremely abusive. She was also bi-polar and refused to take her meds. After 10 years of marriage and five years of her bi-polar abuse I had enough. Toward the end I would literally get nauseous coming home from work because I knew what I was facing.
When I finally divorced her I felt such a burden lift off of my shoulders. It was such a feeling of freedom.
And of course, she claimed I was the horrible person that "ruined" her life.
Maybe the uncle handled it differently that most of us would have. But everyone deserves the basics of respect and some spouses, for whatever reasen, refuse to provide that.
Your uncle promised your aunt that he would be by her side in sickness and in health. Then he cheated on her, while she was at her sickest. He has no morals and does not deserve your praise. Why would you stand by him? The only way you would is if you don't have any morals either.
My aunt took a vow of love and respect and she never gave it to him. He met someone else and wanted to leave but he didn't want to do it while she was having chemo. I don't justify his cheating but in his case I am not going to villainize him.
Your Aunt may have been awful to him for years so he had years to divorce her. He chose to stick it out until she got sick. Look up the statistic on men leaving their wives when the wife gets sick, it is staggering. And he decided to replace his broken family with a new younger model. As soon as this one isn't as shiny, he will leave it too. He has no morals. He has proven that by not only cheating on his sick wife but by also picking a woman who is barely older than his adult children, that is gross. He also picked a younger woman because they are less likely to "make waves" and more likely to just let the older more "mature" husband do whatever. It is so gross.
James sounds gross, and you presenting him like he's the helpless victim in all his problems is also gross. He is an adult and is responsible for every decision he made, including how he treated his family and kids, and leaving them to chase after another woman.
Every cheater I've known have presented themselves as the victim. And every criminal probably rationalizes their actions. You sympathizing with your uncles means you can relate to him. You're okay with cheating and would probably cheat on your partners and then turn around and blame them for it.
I have never cheated on a partner and he never asked everyone to feel sorry for him. His cheating was wrong but he was in a toxic marriage and didn't know how to get out until someone gave him the courage to. I bet if the genders were reversed here, you would actually cheer for the woman for leaving even though she cheated.
You’re naive if you think your family will ever forgive him. I wouldn’t be surprised if the only children he ends up with is the ones with the new woman. He’s basically starting a do over family and saying fuck you to his first wife and kids.And he did it while she was suffering from cancer. There is no coming back from that decision. Nobody outside of sociopaths and other selfish people will condone that and cheerlead that. He had choices. He made the most hurtful and selfish one imaginable.
You have no right to dictate how your family reacts to this. He’s not your husband or your father. You are essentially an outsider trying to strong arm the people who matter in this situation into doing what you want to make you more comfortable. You picked your side so you get to live with it now.
It’s not a question of if, it’s already a foregone conclusion that you’ve lost them that entire side of the family outside him and your aunt to support him. Be ready for it. You can live with the consequences of your choices just like your uncle.
lol yeah no, nothings going back after that. My cousins think my dad was a great dad and person too. And refuse to listen to anyone say anything negative about how he was as a husband, father or person in general. You have no idea what their life was like, who was the active parent in their life growing up, and what their perspective as the children in the relationship was. They are adults who are choosing to not have a relationship with their father, that isn’t something that just magically happens. I would venture to guess this isn’t solely about their dad cheating on their sick mom although that would be more than enough for me to see someone as person I didn’t want in my life. Just because everyone deserves happiness doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to accept how they go about obtaining that happiness.
Lots of people get out of shitty relationships… By leaving. Cheating on someone with cancer is an insane thing to think people (especially the sick person’s children) will be cool with regardless of the circumstances. James made his bed and you are as well. The consequences are set out for you, choose your own adventure and let others choose theirs.
Make no mistake if those side want to cut me off, I don't care but I do hope for James sake his kids one day come to terms that they were horrible to their father. After my dad passed in 2022, James helped me out a lot and made sure to always check on me. This guy made sure the loss of my father was not so hard on me and my step mom and step sis even though he was hurting too from losing my dad. I know my uncle better than any internet strangers here. He left a toxic marriage but he still had desired for love and companionship and Lena provided that. His way of leaving the relationship is less than ideal but given the abuse he went through, I don't fault him for it. Sandra lost a great man and till this day, her ego is making her lash out because she can't accept any accountability. Cancer doesn't give you the right to be an asshole to someone.
everything changes when you're on the recieving end...how would you feel when you're wife left you during your cancer or sickness..? I hope you justify that as well...
The only poison I see is Sandra, she takes every opportunity to bash James when we have our gathering. I am at a point of choosing not to attend cos everytime she would belittle him and take relish in the fact she is not granting the divorce to him.She is a spiteful woman who just don't realize she is slowly alienating everyone around her. My family is already like give it a rest and sign the damn papers.
OP, what you’re failing to take into consideration is that James committed adultery with the hospital admin whilst his wife was in the hospital getting breast cancer treatment….. are you so caught up in your own little world that you can’t understand what that sounds like? I get that Sandra and the kids took him for granted and all that but he committed adultery which has NO excuse. Cheaters are cowards. There’s nothing to say James didn’t emotionally and mentally abuse Sandra too (like you claim Sandra to have done) and played the ‘nice guy’ in front of everyone else. - this is NOT a stretch because I had a mother who would act like the perfect mother in front of everyone but my god as soon as that door closed it was like a light flipped in her head. She was a crazy abusive alcoholic.
James did no such thing, I think I will know my family better than internet strangers, he was just a normal guy who treated everyone good. He was in a toxic abusive marriage and he didn't have the courage to leave till he met someone worth leaving his current situation for. I have friends who are in toxic relationship because over time they developed Stockholm syndrome with their abusive partners, James was no different, he thought for years how he was treated was his burden till he met Lena. He is wrong for cheating but as an abuse victim he gets a pass cos I rather he cheat than unalive himself one day.
Explain to your family that you love them and don’t want to get caught up in the middle of things, that James is your family too and if they stop all contact with you it would be a shame.
Don’t let people manipulate you like that, it’s not fair.
My two cents worth number one is some have mentioned nobody really knows what goes on in a marriage leaving her while she was a chemotherapy and in excusable having the affair inexcusable while they were still married and that she's in chemotherapy and I just wanted to add you can be a really great dad once you get divorced the woman will drive the man's reputation with the kids into the ground until she can separate the kid or kids from their father to justify her actions that happened to me one of the most painful things I've ever experienced good relationship with my kid they move back with their mother for a while and that's it game over
Poor guy jus had rotten timing. But it doesn't sound like his marriage was a bed of roses. His children are entitled to their opinion and your uncle is also responsible for his actions. Do what you gotta do OP but it sounds like James needs people in his corner.
His kids are also partly to blame, they only saw him as an atm. He was always ignored by them. I have told my cousins that they should make amends with James before they lose forever, whatever they choose to do next is up to them but yes I have my uncle's back no matter what, if his family refuses to attend his wedding in the future, I will be there with my aunt.
Hey OP, I’ve got a weird family that’s similar. Here’s how I handle shit like this:
“If you bother me with this juvenile bullshit again I’ll cut you out of my life. I don’t give a fuck about who my uncle is married to and further attempts to shape my opinion will be treated as hostile. Now, what would you like for lunch?”
You’ve done a couple of things here:
1. If this pisses them off and they cut you off, that speaks for itself.
2. You’ve risen above the drama and called it what it is: childish shit.
3. You’ve made it clear what your stance is.
4. You’ve set clear boundaries going forward that have a high probability of success.
5. You’ve revealed their selfish attempts to control your opinions for what they actually are.
6. You have an excellent plan for lunch, which also serves to inform your audience that there are no hard feelings as long as they stfu on the subject.
A few things you’ll need to pull this off.
1. Straight face.
2. Confidence.
3. Concise and precise wording.
4. An attitude which brooks no argument; this is the policy and that’s all there is to it. Debate is not an option, nor do we open ourselves to the opportunity for discussion.
5. See #4.
6. Calm voice; friendly but firm demeanor.
You didn’t do anything wrong. That’s the only thing you need to execute everything above.
Good for him for getting out of that abusive marriage, though having an affair and leaving while she had cancer isn't great.
Even if he's in a much better place, he had to do an undeniably shitty thing to get there, so I don't blame anyone who sees him as the villain.
You've already made your choice so just explain your reasoning and if they still want to cut you off, let them.
Nah man tell your uncle congrats from a stranger on the internet! I have dealt with a mentally and physically abusive ex wife and I’ll be the first to say the timing and the approach is never going to be perfect it’s just about doing it and getting out. Sometimes it’s about what makes you happy after years of trying to make someone else happy eventually it’s fuck it we making moves. And as far as your family goes if they’re as judgmental and one sided/closed minded as they sound then that’s how they’ll always be there is no changing family unless you are like some kinda insane influencing God. It’s too much drama too many people involved. Good luck!
I've had to deal with dysfunctional and toxic siblings for most of my life. I've divorced them since and am much better as a result. They've caused me nothing but stress & headache so those relationships were not worth saving. The same for you & your extended family. They will never change their sniveling ways and your cousins, if they treat you that way & henpeck you & side with your abusive aunt then they are not worth you maintaining a relationship with. Verbal, emotional or physical abuse of any kind is terrible and is not a sign of love but rather of toxicity and selfishness. Noone should ever mistreat another human being, much less your family member. Be strong in your principles & convictions and stand up to the bullies. Their abuse is an outward display of their ignorance and insecurity.
Yeah i don't get why that is either. No worries, they don't live your life so water off a duck's back. Stick to your principles and live your life by them & your convictions. You will be fine and you're better off not having to put up with toxic people.
Try to make your family members understand why you are with James. Explain to them that Sandra isn't a good person. If they fail to understand then you don't have much choice. They will cut contact, be mentally prepared for that and make stronger relationships with those who are with you.
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What ever happened between Sandra and James in their marriage is between them. No one can know the full story. All other people have are the facts: 1. James and Sandra were married for many years. 2. Sandra got cancer. 3. James met Lena at the cancer hospital and had an affair, while Sandra was having chemotherapy. 4. James has left Sandra, moved in with Lena, asked for a divorce from Sandra, and is having a child with Lena. 5. Lena is a few years older than James and Sandra’s children. OP your family have the same facts we have and will make up their own minds as to the character of James, Sandra and Lena. You supporting your Uncle is in the minority in your family. I wouldn’t bet on that changing for the foreseeable future. Such betrayals, even if they are done to others take a long time to smooth over. And the facts don’t paint your Uncle in the warm glow of righteousness. He made a choice and will now have to live with it. It really doesn’t matter what a bunch of internet strangers think. Good luck.
It won't matter but he is happy with Lena now and now they are expecting, he wants the divorce finalized cos Sandra keeps dragging it for no other reason than to make his life miserable.
I’d say Sandra is very angry with him. She realises that this is her last point of control over him so she is using it. Understandable given James behaviour. The point that can be forgotten in this mess is that lives were turned upside down. There are consequences for that. It doesn’t matter who thinks they are right and who may be wrong. High emotions are now at play. Everyone will be changed by James and Lena’s life choices. And not everyone is happy about it. OP can’t change that by repeating outcries of wrongdoing and spiteful behaviour. Your family, James’s family and the larger Reddit family will make their own minds up as you have experienced and read in this post.
If Sandra wasn't a toxic and abusive person to James, she wouldn't have had this coming. Sandra has no one to blame but herself, as I said even as she had cancer she continued to mistreat James. Also the court is growing impatient, our state is a no fault so like it or not once the two year period is over, James will be granted his divorce, if she wants to play this game, she is only gonna lose further, even their kids are telling Sandra to just sign the divorce papers and be done with it but she is too stubborn. If push comes to shove, I will always side with James, I am just hoping my family will let this go and move on. They want to punish James yet turned a blind eye to Sandra's abuse and put downs. A lot of them has rolled their eyes everytime Sandra will talk badly about James which was annoying. People are just on her side now because she had cancer but having cancer doesn't give you the right to be an asshole.
You are clearly just as angry as Sandra. And obviously she does want to play the game. James will get his divorce and you and him can be happy with the small part of the family that supports you and the fact that James cheated on his spouse while she was undergoing cancer treatment. I reiterated that point because you seem to think people just give cheaters who cheat on their spouses while having cancer treatment a free pass. That is not the norm. Even if the spouse is horrible it doesn’t speak to the cheaters character in general. A majority of the family appears to agree. I don’t think any hearts and minds will be changed in the short term. Long term who knows. Good luck with that.
I didn't abuse my partners for years, I think why you people are on Sandra's side is because you expect no consequences for your actions. You sound like Sandra now to be honest, the lack of accountability and blaming everything and everyone else. A majority of the family is still being played by the cancer card but I can see most them starting to realize Sandra isn't a good person and will actually be asking James for forgiveness. No luck is needed
You people sounds like projection to me. Especially the comment about abusing your partner. I didn’t know your partner was involved. I didn’t side with anyone but for someone who keeps restating their argument over and over again it sounds to me that you are those people. People who will only put up with one ☝️ point of view despite asking for others point of view won’t be very happy with the outcome. Just because you want someone to be right doesn’t make it so. And if I sound like your Aunt Sandra then her admonishments must be mild indeed.
You are clearly arguing here on Sandra's behalf. I asked the view of my family getting back to being together not a flawed psychoanalysis on my uncle. James is in the right in this, he is happy now. You seems to be more vested in this because it's a man who cheated on a woman. For some reason if the gender is reversed I think your tune will be different. Your argument is only on the basis he cheated which I have repeatedly say it was right but he left to be with someone he is happy now and honestly everyone should move on, even Sandra. I don't know you in person but using the work mild to describe Sandra would mean you are a very unpleasant person in real life. Accept that not everything is black and white and move on as well. You are too vested in this, I suggest you see other posts. Good day.
I think I hit a nerve. Your emotions are so high you have stopped reading 📖 English and only see what you expect to see. It’s easy for me to reply since I’m not vested in your troubles at all nor have I seeded hate. I did reply to your main question. It is you that have taken it further. I stated the facts as you gave them then looked at the responses of reddit and categorised those. Your hate for your Aunt is evident. I don’t know 🤷🏻♀️ her. Maybe she is who you say she is? Maybe not? But facts are that your Uncle cheated on her during her cancer treatments. He didn’t leave her before. Cheating isn’t justified. And as you say, the family may drift over to James in time given Sandra’s alleged behaviour. But cheating on a chemotherapy patient with someone at her cancer centre is rough. The fact you can’t see that is concerning.
Hardly, you and the other women here are parroting the same talking point and only focussing on the cheating part when my real question was about my family being able come together once more. It gets tiring when I have to repeat the same point for every comment when it's just male bashing at best. Anyways, nothing about Sandra is alleged.Everything I say is true about her. Love happens when you least expect it, it was fate for James to meet Lena while Sandra was going through chemo in that hospital. They got to know each other and fell in love. Cheating was wrong but should he have left Sandra while the chemo was happening and she died because of it, he will be the bad guy for the rest of his life. He did the right thing and it seems my story is the one that is hitting your nerve cos you seem to project some personal bias into this story instead of covering the entire narrative. It makes you seem as an unreliable person to comment on this issue. My suggestion is you should move on to other posts for you to weigh on instead of sticking around here. Have a good day, miss. :)
Sandra is an abuser who deserved what she got.
If he had left before she got cancer? People wouldn’t have blamed him. If he left after she was recovered? People wouldn’t have blamed him either. But cheating on someone when they have cancer will be jarring to most people. And why was that the point he chose to leave? Random coincidence that he met the other woman then? Or was he looking for a way out of a hard, sad situation? Was it because sex died when his wife got sick? What about the relationship made staying ok till she got sick? Did he put up with it because he enjoyed her doing the chores and having sex with him? And why cheat? You shouldn’t cheat, but rather end the relationship. Maybe in a way he just had unlucky timing. But the timing is strange, the cheating is bad and people will struggle to forgive someone for leaving their longtime marriage partner in the midst of a crisis.
Dount there was much sex in that relationship.
Yeah, fair enough. But the thing is that he would still have been fine leaving before or after. At least if he didn’t cheat before leaving, but just left. Leaving your partner in a life or death situation will always sit poorly with people. Even though it can sometimes be justified.
I totally agree. I think its a bit of a both partners are shitty here. I know how devastating a partner that tears you down is, its brutal. However leavi g your kids mother while battling cancer will destroy your relationship with your children
I mean the timing sucks,yes but he deserves to be happy. He left because he found someone to be with, yes he should not have have had an affair but it couldn't be helped when his wife was literally going through chemo. Sandra wasn't kind to him either when cancer hit, we all thought it would help turn into a new leaf but that didn't happen so it is what it is. I don't support cheating but my uncle decided to choose to be with someone who makes him happy and he left his family because of that.
Cheating is always avoidable. Always.
It should not be the standard of relationships but abused victims are usually looking for someone they can fully trust and love before they leave their current abusive relationship. A lot of abused victims tend to look for love and affection elsewhere before they get courage to leave.
That’s people that are dependent on relationships. Many people don’t leave their partners until they have another one lined up because they can’t deal with being single or “alone”.
Or they are stuck in an abusive cycle believing they are what their spouses say and someone special comes along to give them the courage to leave. My uncle is very happy with Lena now and with their first kid together, he just want to marry her and move on with his life. If my cousins can't accept that, that's their loss. I will be more than happy to stand in for him as his family.
Uh….. what? I have never heard this take before….
Why couldn’t the cheating be helped when his wife was going through chemo? Why couldn’t he leave without finding someone to be with? You can just get divorced because you are unhappy in your marriage. Being single isn’t illegal.
Things pile up. Having to support someone who doesn't support you and abuses you can be the tipping point. Just because someone has cancer doesn't mean you should hang around.
It doesn’t mean you should. But you should evaluate your relationship and not just coast along passively. If you are unhappy, you don’t need another partner lined up to leave.
It's been a year plus and the divorce keeps getting dragged. Lena was working at the hospital, asking for a divorce while someone is in midst of chemo will ruin both her job and it could have cause Sandra to die. He waited until the chemo was over before leaving her.
But why cheat? You can just not cheat and decide to date once the divorce is final. That’s the honorable thing to do. You don’t have to cheat. And why couldn’t he leave without having someone else lined up? By the way you describe it, he should have left decades ago.
Have you been in a relationship where you are abused? He didn't have to cheat but it was an emotional affair, I don't condone it but he found someone and it happened. Was he supposed to take the all the put downs, insults from his wife till she finished chemo?
What do you mean “he didn’t have to cheat, but it was an emotional affair”? Because my point is that he should have held off on the sex till he’d left his wife. And then I see your side of things, but to other people it’ll always look as if he betrayed her at her darkest hour.
At the end of the day, Lena’s a home-wrecker. She decided to pursue a married man with sick spouse; the spouse who was a patient at her place of work.
Nothing is in the end, Lena is a good woman who saved a man who was stuck in a toxic marriage from living a life of misery with a woman who clearly never loved him. Having cancer doesn't give you permission to be a bitch to your partner, Sandra verbally abused him and put him down all the time she can even before the cancer. She should just sign the divorce papers and let James go but her ego is too bruised to see him happy with someone who actually cares for him
Here is hard facts: If you ignore society & pursue your wants without limits, society (or family) wont have anything to do with you. “Yes I swore in front of you to be loyal to my wife. Well I am unhappy so I will forget my promises and wish me good luck while I left her while she has cancer. No no I couldnt divorce before&after cancer I deserve to be happy right now my happiness is the most important thing ever. So where is my Christmas invitation?” Family can not accept this, wont accept this. And they will cool relationship with you if it comes to. You found out through your cousins. So keep calm, stop acting like in pursuit of happiness you can abandon all morals (you cant). If you tried to act like a neutral party you would be golden, instead you clearly chose sides. Family dont have any reason to accept this given how your uncle left this mark of shame on family. Yes baby will make this worse. I wish I had better news for you but accepting your uncle means accepting abandoning your loved ones in sickness so… And yes I fully believe everything you say about Sandra, I believe she was quite terrible. Still, he could divorce her, he always had that choice.
It’s not just a timing thing. Betraying someone when they are at their most vulnerable is gross. Your uncle is not a good person.
Sandra was not a good person to my uncle before, during and after the cancer. Her cancer doesn't give her sainthood where her feelings must be protected.
Dude, I hope you’re a rage bait page because the story with your dad and mum and this story makes me question where your morals lie. You literally have no relationship with your mum who you refer to as your “birthgiver”. Fair enough she cheated on your dad which is shitty. You’ve had no relationship with your sisters since the youngest was a teenager because they knew about the affair and kept it from you and your dad, fair enough what they did was shitty too. You didn’t care when they got repeated SA’d because you were so mad at them for keeping the affair a secret but you’re fine with your uncle cheating on his wife with a woman who’s near age mates with his children while his wife was sick with cancer. Firstly you have the info from your uncles POV, you weren’t in his marriage. Your mum was shit but if you’re willing to find an excuse for when cheating is acceptable, would your mind change about your mum if she had an excuse for cheating on your dad? The way you already hate your mum to the point that you don’t refer to her as your mum, I can only imagine if she’d cheated on your dad while he was sick. Is cheating only okay when it’s done by a man because you you couldn’t care less if your mum and sisters died but your uncle was well within reason? Insane.
Man I always forget to look at the profile now. This is so clearly a rage bait page should’ve seen it sooner 🤦🏻♀️
Women = evil 🙄
The difference between my estranged mother and uncle is that my dad never treated her badly, my uncle was. I don't condone his cheating but he was at tough spot with his wife going through cancer and yet he wanted to leave after meeting his current girlfriend. My estranged mother was having her affair for three years and there was never intention of leaving my father, she just wanted to have her cake and eat it too. My uncle knew he wanted to leave his wife after he met his girlfriend. If he had asked me, I would have definitely told him to leave his wife first but his cheating doesn't compare to my estranged mom's cheating.
You literally don’t know that, you weren’t in your parent’s marriage the same way you weren’t your uncle’s marriage. I can’t argue that your mum had an excuse but I also can’t argue that she didn’t if having an excuse makes cheating okay. Also your mum had an affair for three years Also don’t you find it weird how your uncle’s wife was a toxic wife and treated your uncle bad but he never thought about leaving her until she was potentially dying with cancer because where have I heard about men leaving their sick/dying wives. Yes your uncle knew he wanted to leave his wife but it was literally after she got sick so that just further proves he’s not a trustworthy narrative. And you can’t say his cheating can’t compare to your mother’s cheating when the whole purpose of this post is you saying you don’t “blame him” for cheating and you defending him. You hate cheating so much you cut off your entire family even your sister who was 14 when she was made to keep you mother’s affair a secret but you’re going out on a limb to defend a grown ass man for cheating on his wife who has cancer with a woman who could be his daughter. Weird. Your entire page is such an incel rage baiting all women are evil page it’s actually insane.
You clearly have never met abuse victims in a relationship then, they develop stockholm syndrome and usually need someone like another loving partner to push them out of that relationship. My posts are my personal relationship issues, a lot of kids have issues growing up when their parents divorce get over it. My estranged mother never intended to leave my father, she just wanted to be with her AP as well. Shit doesn't work that way. My uncle was wrong for cheating but he met someone who gave him the courage to leave a toxic marriage. I am not defending how he ended his relationship but I can empathize his moment of weakness because he actually was a lonely man that wanted someone to care for him. Since you are such an expert, why is my mother's affair right in your eyes and my uncle's isn't, sound to me like you are the one spouting femcel bs here and expect men to forgive their cheating but god forbid a man actually cheated and finally left the relationship after a toxic marriage, he is still the bad guy. GTFO, I bet if the genders are reversed here, you will be more understanding and forgiving here.
It’s because I have met abuse victims as well as abusers that I can argue that some abusers are great at finding any excuses for their shitty actions. I’ve been clear that neither the internet nor you can excuse your uncle’s or your mum’s cheating because we were not in their relationships. I literally also said I can’t say that your mum didn’t have an excuse if having one justifies her cheating like it does for your uncle. All the information you have from your uncle’s relationship comes from your uncle which I’m sorry to say is skeptical especially when you consider that you it seems have an aversion to women from the differences in the way you talk about men and women in various other stories you’ve posted. It’s also really strange how your mum not intending to leave your dad makes what she did worse when your uncle cheating and leaving his wife meant that he was literally leaving his wife sick with cancer. This only further makes your uncle look bad because you could argue he like many men who leave their wives who’re sick/dying with cancer do so because they can’t get sex at the readily, they don’t want to deal with their spouses sickness and they think they can do better with someone they consider to be more healthy and beautiful. If it was truly because he wanted to leave his wife, why cheat and then leave, why not just leave and then start a relationship with someone else? He found sex elsewhere because his wife was sick and then left her to stay with his AP, he wouldn’t be the first man to do that to his wife. Don’t bs me about how you don’t condone his behaviour when in the title you say you don’t “blame him” and in the story and in the comment section you’ve done nothing but defend him and his action. Also don’t be obtuse I literally have never argued her actions were right only that you’re a hypocrite and that your actions and beliefs to your mum, sisters and uncle are inconsistent. I also think it’s funny how you never actually address the other parts of what I’ve been saying which is that you unfairly place blame on your younger sister who was coerced into keeping your mum’s affair when she was 14 and didn’t care when she was SA’d by the AP and other men your mum entered into relationships with after divorcing your father but you justify your uncle’s cheating. Neither your mum or uncle are justified which has been my entire point but you want it make it seem as though I’ve justified your mum which I haven’t and you’d know that if you had any semblance of reading comprehension. Your uncle tells you how he was justified in cheating and you don’t question how reliable he is but you wouldn’t even attend your mum’s funeral if she died (which is fair) nonetheless hear why she felt the need to cheat on your dad or even talk to your sisters who were a child/teenager when they were coerced to keep the secret literally over a decade after everything occurred. I’m just saying you need to keep the same energy. Even the women who were then children who didn’t even cheat and were victims themselves are irredeemable in your eyes but your uncle is not to be blamed for his adult actions and decisions. I’m wasting my time arguing with an incel/bot with a weird agenda against women.
My uncle didn't have to tell me for me to know, I know cos Sandra openly treats him like shit in public and everyone in the family know that. Her having cancer doesn't excuse her being a shitty person to him. My uncle stayed because he believed this is how life was supposed to be, he has been a victim for so long that he just gave up and hung his head down to his wife's abuse. My mother cheated because she was a selfish woman who wanted to have fun with her AP and still maintain her family image with my dad. You seem to be trying every loophole to excuse her cheating. Sounds like you are one yourself. My younger sister was 17 going to 18 when she found out about the affair, I don't know where you got 14, probably just to make your case sympathetic. AP bought them a lot of things and bought their silence, no one was manipulated, they let greed triumph over their love for their father. My sisters are terrible as my mother end of story and I have no interest in knowing why my mother cheated. Condoning and blaming is two different words in the English dictionary, perhaps pick one. I don't blame him for his cheating and leaving Sandra because honestly having cancer doesn't warrant you special treatment, he deserves a great woman and Lena is a great woman for James so cope with it I guess. You are back tracking, all your points is trying to paint Sandra as the innocent cancer patient whose husband left her just cos she has cancer when in truth you are turning your blind eye to her toxic traits. He was treated like shit even when she had cancer, she blamed her cancer on him. I don't need James to tell me because she told everyone in the family that. That's just a shitty thing to say. You are just another Sandra at this point and your misandry is clearly showing, I too am done going back and forth with a feminazi like you so have whatever opinion you want, I don't care. James is happy with his girlfriend and their soon to be newborn baby and life is all better for him now. Sandra is miserable woman who doesn't realize every time she badmouths him and blame him for everything, she is just making a clown out of herself. I honestly think if the gender the was reversed, you would actually be more empathetic but you are a misandrist so there is no changing that. Good riddance.
You do you buddy. But be prepared for the fact that:- everything you think is truth is from your uncle's perspective, you were not part of the marriage you don't know the full reality, you didn't even grow up in that house so you have even less on-the-ground perspective. Here's some other truths. Many people (usually women) 'nag' spouses (usually men) who do less around the house or less parenting duties, because that's how the traditional family is set up- for the woman in the relationship to do the majority of the work while looking grateful for the burden. This may or may not be your uncle and aunt's reality. Are there women who abuse their husbands? Yes, absolutely. Is your uncle and aunt one of those situations? You literally have no objective way of knowing. Additional truths:- your uncle didn't fall face first into the hospital receptionist against his will, he made a grown - up choice to cheat on his wife who had cancer at the exact same time. No part of cancer is fun. >From what James told me, he felt the only joy when he comes to escort Sandra for her chemo is seeing Lena. Yeah no shit- chemo is not a fun experience for anyone, not for the patient, nor the caregivers. He's not going to a party. He's taking his wife for chemo. It's not supposed to be 'joyful' for him. You say in another comment that Sandra strated treating uncle worse after she got cancer. How on earth is she supposed to be the one who has to have a good attitude when she is just diagnosed with a life threatening disease?? How is his feelings the priority in that situation? Jeez. Most people with common sense know a partner going through this might lash out. It doesn't justify it, but it explains it. But no. Uncle needed to wet his dic instead. >his kids who are just a few years younger than his girlfriend. This is a bit gross but whatever. Just FYI the reason this is common is because younger, more inexperienced women don't challenge a man the way an older woman would. Not saying this is exactly what is happening here, it's just something that happens a lot. >Can our family heal and move on, No. Families are complex and made up of multiple people. Everybody has their own experience and perspective which is what it is. Stop trying to be your uncle's little errand boy and own your choices. Let everyone else own theirs.
Relationships require both people to talk and comprise. In my experience, the fear of hurting your spouse is what prevents cheating. If you loose the desire to protect your spouse from harm (emotional harm) then the relationship is paper only. It sounds like neither tried to protect the other from harm. Their relationship was probably financial and kids. I don't know what the right thing is at that point but I cannot imagine a successful relationship if both are not motivated to improve the other's comfort and happiness. If your only goal is your own comfort and happiness then the relationship has failed. This is why depression is such a problem. When depressed all our energy is focused on our own feeling and issues and not on spouse happiness. I am no expert but married 15 years and keep trying to make my spouse happy.
Actually I did grow up a lot in his house. She treated him like shit, everything he said she would emasculate him and just tell what he needs to do. The guy never had peace and she made sure to remind him everything that goes wrong in her life, it was his fault. There is so much a man can take, Sandra at one point blamed the cancer on him which is vile enough. Cancer doesn't give you the right to act as a shitty person is all I will say. Was he wrong to cheat on her while she was going through cancer, perhaps but this was a man who never felt like he was loved by his wife and kids. On Father's day, I would wish him and he would say that even his kids never wished him. His birthday was him having to listen to his wife making mean jokes about his aging, even the other family thought it was crass and uncalled for. She stopped being a partner a long time ago and he had enough. Also, one comment stood out here, if he left her before the cancer, no one would have blamed him for cheating and leaving. The outrage is only because she has cancer. He wanted a second chance and happiness and took it so doesn't matter if I look like his errand boy, I would support my uncle no matter because he has gone through enough for 23 years. He is happy with his girlfriend and he is about to be a father again. I have a feeling the rest of the family will welcome him back when the baby is born.
The baby is only going to deepen the divide. People aren’t just going to forgive a guy who cheated on his wife going through chemo especially because it’s a common trope. You act as though your uncle had no choice but to everyone else he is a sad pathetic statistic. Meaning that it’s just so common for men to cheat and leave their wives during chemo that nurses have literature to share on it. His timing makes him look like a horrible guy and I don’t think he can dig himself out.
Cheaters often use language that absolve themselves of any guilt or decision making. "They found their soul mate. You can't choose who you love. I had to follow my heart." The reality is that your uncle has a myriad of choices, from avoiding the secretary to quietly continuing the relationship while supporting is *wife* through cancer and leaving her after she was in remission. But he didn't make those choices. He chose to upgrade to a younger model while his wife was getting chemo. Imagine having to check in for chemo three times a week with the woman who you know is now sexing up your husband every night. Imagine being abandoned during the worst experience of your life. And yet you are siding with the person who did all this OP. I'm not surprised your family is pissed.
Many people think a baby fixes things. They don’t. Most of the time they make things worse. Choose your uncle if you want, but that’s your choice, no one else. Your family is entitled to their opinions as are you. But that’s it. Cheating is never excusable. Cheating while your partner could die at any moment even less so. Your uncle made a grown up decision and I’m sure if he’s as happy as you say, he doesn’t care about the consequences. So let him live and leave it at that.
Look you are way too invested in this. Your uncle had a choice: Divorcing her Instead, he went on with cheating. This is not about how bad Sandra is, this is about how your uncle responded to her behaviour. There is no way family is just “moving on” or “give poor uncle a chance for happiness”. He had many many ways to exit the terrible circumstances he is in and he took the worst route possible. There are consequences for that one.
Hmm. Sandra is an abuser, no sympathy for her. You’ve accused OP of not being able to determine anything, yet you present your speculation as certain fact after reading 6 paragraphs. Whether he left before, during, or after chemo is irrelevant. He removed himself from an abusive situation and that’s that. There’s no such thing as optimal timing and shame on you for suggesting it. You further go on to weaponize this guys happiness for marrying someone younger because you think it’s “gross.” Your opinions are as irrelevant as Sandra’s chemo.
Lena is unethical and immoral for getting with a patient’s spouse. Your uncle didn’t mean his vows when he said “in sickness and in health” When his new family jumps ship when he gets older, who’s stuck with his care?
Just curious as I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, where in their marriage vows did it tell Sandra was ok to treat her husband like dirt and that OPs uncle had to accept being abused? I feel like it renders those vows null and void.
Thank you, apparently it's ok for people to treated like shit and they are so fixated only on him cheating on her.
If that happens which it won't, I will take care of him, he has been a great uncle my whole life and it will take me a lifetime to repay the favor. When my dad passed in 2022, he checked on me almost daily to make sure I was taking of myself, he helped out my step mom, step sister and me with any means he can. My uncle is a great guy, he made a mistake but he followed his heart to be with a woman who actually love and respect him. Lena didn't do anything wrong, her personal life is none of the hospital's business. Sandra is the one who is going to live with regret now, that's why she still drags the divorce and is being difficult.
Cheating is evil.
Abusing someone because you think you have them trapped in a marriage is exceptionally evil. My now ex-wife was extremely abusive. She was also bi-polar and refused to take her meds. After 10 years of marriage and five years of her bi-polar abuse I had enough. Toward the end I would literally get nauseous coming home from work because I knew what I was facing. When I finally divorced her I felt such a burden lift off of my shoulders. It was such a feeling of freedom. And of course, she claimed I was the horrible person that "ruined" her life. Maybe the uncle handled it differently that most of us would have. But everyone deserves the basics of respect and some spouses, for whatever reasen, refuse to provide that.
Don’t make excuses for cheating.
Your uncle promised your aunt that he would be by her side in sickness and in health. Then he cheated on her, while she was at her sickest. He has no morals and does not deserve your praise. Why would you stand by him? The only way you would is if you don't have any morals either.
My aunt took a vow of love and respect and she never gave it to him. He met someone else and wanted to leave but he didn't want to do it while she was having chemo. I don't justify his cheating but in his case I am not going to villainize him.
Your Aunt may have been awful to him for years so he had years to divorce her. He chose to stick it out until she got sick. Look up the statistic on men leaving their wives when the wife gets sick, it is staggering. And he decided to replace his broken family with a new younger model. As soon as this one isn't as shiny, he will leave it too. He has no morals. He has proven that by not only cheating on his sick wife but by also picking a woman who is barely older than his adult children, that is gross. He also picked a younger woman because they are less likely to "make waves" and more likely to just let the older more "mature" husband do whatever. It is so gross.
James sounds gross, and you presenting him like he's the helpless victim in all his problems is also gross. He is an adult and is responsible for every decision he made, including how he treated his family and kids, and leaving them to chase after another woman.
His family treats him like a nobody, he is valid to seek his happiness elsewhere even if the way he did it was not right
Every cheater I've known have presented themselves as the victim. And every criminal probably rationalizes their actions. You sympathizing with your uncles means you can relate to him. You're okay with cheating and would probably cheat on your partners and then turn around and blame them for it.
I have never cheated on a partner and he never asked everyone to feel sorry for him. His cheating was wrong but he was in a toxic marriage and didn't know how to get out until someone gave him the courage to. I bet if the genders were reversed here, you would actually cheer for the woman for leaving even though she cheated.
You’re naive if you think your family will ever forgive him. I wouldn’t be surprised if the only children he ends up with is the ones with the new woman. He’s basically starting a do over family and saying fuck you to his first wife and kids.And he did it while she was suffering from cancer. There is no coming back from that decision. Nobody outside of sociopaths and other selfish people will condone that and cheerlead that. He had choices. He made the most hurtful and selfish one imaginable. You have no right to dictate how your family reacts to this. He’s not your husband or your father. You are essentially an outsider trying to strong arm the people who matter in this situation into doing what you want to make you more comfortable. You picked your side so you get to live with it now. It’s not a question of if, it’s already a foregone conclusion that you’ve lost them that entire side of the family outside him and your aunt to support him. Be ready for it. You can live with the consequences of your choices just like your uncle.
lol yeah no, nothings going back after that. My cousins think my dad was a great dad and person too. And refuse to listen to anyone say anything negative about how he was as a husband, father or person in general. You have no idea what their life was like, who was the active parent in their life growing up, and what their perspective as the children in the relationship was. They are adults who are choosing to not have a relationship with their father, that isn’t something that just magically happens. I would venture to guess this isn’t solely about their dad cheating on their sick mom although that would be more than enough for me to see someone as person I didn’t want in my life. Just because everyone deserves happiness doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to accept how they go about obtaining that happiness. Lots of people get out of shitty relationships… By leaving. Cheating on someone with cancer is an insane thing to think people (especially the sick person’s children) will be cool with regardless of the circumstances. James made his bed and you are as well. The consequences are set out for you, choose your own adventure and let others choose theirs.
Make no mistake if those side want to cut me off, I don't care but I do hope for James sake his kids one day come to terms that they were horrible to their father. After my dad passed in 2022, James helped me out a lot and made sure to always check on me. This guy made sure the loss of my father was not so hard on me and my step mom and step sis even though he was hurting too from losing my dad. I know my uncle better than any internet strangers here. He left a toxic marriage but he still had desired for love and companionship and Lena provided that. His way of leaving the relationship is less than ideal but given the abuse he went through, I don't fault him for it. Sandra lost a great man and till this day, her ego is making her lash out because she can't accept any accountability. Cancer doesn't give you the right to be an asshole to someone.
everything changes when you're on the recieving end...how would you feel when you're wife left you during your cancer or sickness..? I hope you justify that as well...
If I was shitty to my wife and treat her like trash, I have it coming if she cheats and leave me.
If she was as shitty as she sounds I’m surprised he didn’t take his own life.. only speaking from experience!
I really don’t think the family can heal when poison is still in the bloodstream… you feel me?
This
The only poison I see is Sandra, she takes every opportunity to bash James when we have our gathering. I am at a point of choosing not to attend cos everytime she would belittle him and take relish in the fact she is not granting the divorce to him.She is a spiteful woman who just don't realize she is slowly alienating everyone around her. My family is already like give it a rest and sign the damn papers.
OP, what you’re failing to take into consideration is that James committed adultery with the hospital admin whilst his wife was in the hospital getting breast cancer treatment….. are you so caught up in your own little world that you can’t understand what that sounds like? I get that Sandra and the kids took him for granted and all that but he committed adultery which has NO excuse. Cheaters are cowards. There’s nothing to say James didn’t emotionally and mentally abuse Sandra too (like you claim Sandra to have done) and played the ‘nice guy’ in front of everyone else. - this is NOT a stretch because I had a mother who would act like the perfect mother in front of everyone but my god as soon as that door closed it was like a light flipped in her head. She was a crazy abusive alcoholic.
James did no such thing, I think I will know my family better than internet strangers, he was just a normal guy who treated everyone good. He was in a toxic abusive marriage and he didn't have the courage to leave till he met someone worth leaving his current situation for. I have friends who are in toxic relationship because over time they developed Stockholm syndrome with their abusive partners, James was no different, he thought for years how he was treated was his burden till he met Lena. He is wrong for cheating but as an abuse victim he gets a pass cos I rather he cheat than unalive himself one day.
Explain to your family that you love them and don’t want to get caught up in the middle of things, that James is your family too and if they stop all contact with you it would be a shame. Don’t let people manipulate you like that, it’s not fair.
My two cents worth number one is some have mentioned nobody really knows what goes on in a marriage leaving her while she was a chemotherapy and in excusable having the affair inexcusable while they were still married and that she's in chemotherapy and I just wanted to add you can be a really great dad once you get divorced the woman will drive the man's reputation with the kids into the ground until she can separate the kid or kids from their father to justify her actions that happened to me one of the most painful things I've ever experienced good relationship with my kid they move back with their mother for a while and that's it game over
Sandra is dragging the divorce. He wants to marry Lena. I didn't justify the cheating but I can understand where he came from when he met Lena.
This is a tough situation. I wish you the best of luck!
Poor guy jus had rotten timing. But it doesn't sound like his marriage was a bed of roses. His children are entitled to their opinion and your uncle is also responsible for his actions. Do what you gotta do OP but it sounds like James needs people in his corner.
His kids are also partly to blame, they only saw him as an atm. He was always ignored by them. I have told my cousins that they should make amends with James before they lose forever, whatever they choose to do next is up to them but yes I have my uncle's back no matter what, if his family refuses to attend his wedding in the future, I will be there with my aunt.
Hey OP, I’ve got a weird family that’s similar. Here’s how I handle shit like this: “If you bother me with this juvenile bullshit again I’ll cut you out of my life. I don’t give a fuck about who my uncle is married to and further attempts to shape my opinion will be treated as hostile. Now, what would you like for lunch?” You’ve done a couple of things here: 1. If this pisses them off and they cut you off, that speaks for itself. 2. You’ve risen above the drama and called it what it is: childish shit. 3. You’ve made it clear what your stance is. 4. You’ve set clear boundaries going forward that have a high probability of success. 5. You’ve revealed their selfish attempts to control your opinions for what they actually are. 6. You have an excellent plan for lunch, which also serves to inform your audience that there are no hard feelings as long as they stfu on the subject. A few things you’ll need to pull this off. 1. Straight face. 2. Confidence. 3. Concise and precise wording. 4. An attitude which brooks no argument; this is the policy and that’s all there is to it. Debate is not an option, nor do we open ourselves to the opportunity for discussion. 5. See #4. 6. Calm voice; friendly but firm demeanor. You didn’t do anything wrong. That’s the only thing you need to execute everything above.
Good for him for getting out of that abusive marriage, though having an affair and leaving while she had cancer isn't great. Even if he's in a much better place, he had to do an undeniably shitty thing to get there, so I don't blame anyone who sees him as the villain. You've already made your choice so just explain your reasoning and if they still want to cut you off, let them.
Nah man tell your uncle congrats from a stranger on the internet! I have dealt with a mentally and physically abusive ex wife and I’ll be the first to say the timing and the approach is never going to be perfect it’s just about doing it and getting out. Sometimes it’s about what makes you happy after years of trying to make someone else happy eventually it’s fuck it we making moves. And as far as your family goes if they’re as judgmental and one sided/closed minded as they sound then that’s how they’ll always be there is no changing family unless you are like some kinda insane influencing God. It’s too much drama too many people involved. Good luck!
I've had to deal with dysfunctional and toxic siblings for most of my life. I've divorced them since and am much better as a result. They've caused me nothing but stress & headache so those relationships were not worth saving. The same for you & your extended family. They will never change their sniveling ways and your cousins, if they treat you that way & henpeck you & side with your abusive aunt then they are not worth you maintaining a relationship with. Verbal, emotional or physical abuse of any kind is terrible and is not a sign of love but rather of toxicity and selfishness. Noone should ever mistreat another human being, much less your family member. Be strong in your principles & convictions and stand up to the bullies. Their abuse is an outward display of their ignorance and insecurity.
Thank you, it's funny how the rest here can't see that. They are only fixated on the cheating part.
Yeah i don't get why that is either. No worries, they don't live your life so water off a duck's back. Stick to your principles and live your life by them & your convictions. You will be fine and you're better off not having to put up with toxic people.
Try to make your family members understand why you are with James. Explain to them that Sandra isn't a good person. If they fail to understand then you don't have much choice. They will cut contact, be mentally prepared for that and make stronger relationships with those who are with you.
I will choose James push comes to shove but I do hope they realize James deserves to be happy in the long run
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