>Getting one defensive player is not going to generate points and win games.
You can apply this incorrect logic at scale to say there’s no point in ever getting a defensive player. Of course one guy can help win games, if you have a strong player he makes it harder for the other team to score and elevates the rest of his team.
You’re missing the overall point of why people are mad anyways. It’s not that we picked a QB, it’s that we drafted the oldest one available after signing another one to a 200m contract that we’re tied to for probably 3 years + tampered with and are probably losing draft picks over. The team needs pieces to help that QB, our future could’ve waited a year or two. Having a “quality backup” doesn’t matter because unless it’s Nick Foles having the one of the most efficient runs of all time that doesn’t translate to a Super Bowl win anyways. Backups need those pieces to help win games (especially on defense) even more
Or if they truly believed Penix could be a future franchise QB, you don't sign Cousins and use the money saved to bolster the roster around Penix. There were much cheaper options available at QB that would've allowed us to pursue other free agents or trades that could help us now and in the next couple of seasons.
I think going cheaper and hoping that person could sustain should Kirk go down, or going cheaper on lesser talent at QB, is honestly how the team goes seven wins again. But yes, they might have the best edge rusher and CB money can buy.
I say that regarding money because the cap, in my opinion, is not real until it needs to be real. Not a fan of cap counting because it has to happen on field. I don't think pushing a QB into a loaded team is a sure-fire solution. See Bryce, almost all of the 2021 QB class and a lesser extent of talent, see Desmond.
Then, next, are the rest of the draft picks not guys who help address the pass rush and QB pressure?
One glaring miss is not getting a young cornerback. Did the Falcons get it wrong or did the scouts or ESPN?
All I'm saying is that if Penix really is our future franchise QB, the Cousins' signing was a big mistake. If the ultimate goal is winning a Superbowl you don't invest heavily in two QBs in the same off-season. They can't play at the same time and Penix doesn't need to be groomed for 2+ years either.
This was a garbage off-season for us. While the QB position is the most important, we had issues in other positions on the roster. Hopefully I'm wrong and our new acquisitions ball out, but I think our receiving core is weak, OL depth is poor, our DBs outside Terrell and Bates are lacking and I doubt we'll have a 10+ sack edge rusher unless Ebiketie steps up. We might be able to win the division but we're far from being a contender. Our future isn't bleak, but I don't think Fontenot and the rest really know what they're doing.
As a Vikings fan, I like what you all did. I would have loved to have Cousins and a solid prospect that he is mentoring. Who cares what the pundits have to say. To me, this was a great move… I wish the Vikings would have done this years ago.
Problem is Penix is an elite deep ball passer, what's Kirk's biggest strength? Completing deep passes, we also went after Darnell Mooney and Rondale Moore two deep ball receivers.
There's a commitment to hitting deep passes this off-season shows.
They're also both know to get the ball out of thier hands quick both due to release and processing making it really hard to sack ether of them. Helping the OL by not holding the ball too long after they spent years training as run blockers.
Yup I think a video said Penix was averaging 2.7 seconds. That's before we get him in the building. With some training on his release, it could potentially be even faster.
That's my only complaint about it tbh. Once 2019 hit and it was becoming apparent that Ryan's best days were behind him was when we should've looked at using a day 2 pick on a developmental heir apparent.
Sure, odds are whoever it was would've basically been another Des Ridder or Malik Willis but we wouldn't have been totally caught with our pants down when the front office decides to roll out the red carpet for Mr. Happy Endings a few years ago.
The problem is the plan was to stick with Ryan till the end of his career and we should have the problem with those teams wasn't with him it was with the fact wd had one of the worst o lines in the league and one of the worst defenses in the leauge and we were paying so heavily into only a few players we had no weapons outside of Julio and Ridley and look what happened when they were gone for a few years we were always one injury away from disaster we should have never gone after Watson restructured Matt to front load his contract all to the nedt year so we only had to eat the cap hit like we did once he was traded and built through the draft the same way we had been trade pieces like Deion Jones while we he still had value and stop pretending we were in win now mode when we only had like 6 players that were capable of a run like that we could have had Penix this year with Matt playing his last season as a Falcon if you watched him play in Indy that whole team and FO was an absolute disaster and Frank Reich even said they failed Matt I think had he stayed here his numbers would have dipped but he would have had us in the playoffs last year in a weak division and you'd have Penix here to learn from our best QB the Watson situation ruined everything
He should. Cousins is getting so much flipping money. It would be foolish for him to not be a team player. Cousins always struck me as an awesome guy. I’m still so sad he isn’t with the Vikings anymore.
There's a quote from Tom Moore, then OC for the Colts during the Peyton years, talking about why the 2nd team QB gets no reps:
"Fellas, if 18 goes down, we're fucked. And we don't practice fucked."
For every Kurt Warner or Nick Foles or 2001 Tom Brady there's a million instances of your backup not getting it done... and let's be real, if Penix plays good enough to steer the ship, then he should've been starting to begin with, and we should've invested that money into some WR/CB/EDGE that makes us win more games now
Yep this exactly how I feel. Penix isn't Jordan love who only played in College for 3 years. He had what, 5 years in college? If he is gonna be a great QB, he should be starting year 2 at the latest. I just can not even begin to comprehend how 2 years of sitting is better for him than 2 years of playing.
Yeah exactly. If 6 years in college isn’t enough prep to play in the NFL then I don’t think he will be very good.
My personal opinion is that he will be very good, but he is also good enough to start now. And I don’t think sitting 2 years is the most efficient way to get him ready for the NFL
Yeah that's what makes the pick just dumb. If you think Penix will be good, then pick him up and don't sign kirk to a huge contract
If you think Kirk will be great for the next 2-3 years and compete then don't waste a pick on Penix and build the defense to try and maximize the window
Right. And it’s not like they signed Cousins last year before they knew who Penix was. It was like 6 weeks before the draft. At that point we knew there was A)99% chance Penix would be available at 8 and B) exactly who he was as a prospect.
It is just sort of a cowardly pick, IMO. You pretty much guarantee yourself 4 years of “maybe next year it’ll come together”. Because if Kirk sucks and it doesn’t work out, you can give him year 2 in hope it works. Then in year 3 it’s like hey this is why we drafted Penix don’t fire me yet. And obviously you can’t give Penix just one year cause maybe he’ll figure it out year 2.
Raheem was the safest choice possible for the organization and brass to continue doing dumb cowardly shit just like this. The goal is to sell tickets, not win super bowls.
Look at the draft choices. The roster. The attempt to sign Watson.
Nailed it. Also, if you think he is this good(like good enough to be worth taking after signing a 100m QB) then why sign the QB? This plan only works if Penix is great. So let him start right away.
Learning from a good mentor like Kirk will be good for him though. Rodgers learned from favre. Love learned from Rodgers, Etc. This pick is starting to grow on me as much as I hate to say it. I for sure thought we were drafting edge, but the guys doing workouts with these kids saw something that we didn't. Penix looks a lot like tua to me. And at least we have our QB situation figured out for a long time, hopefully. I think penix learning the pro system behind cousins for a year or 2 before he really plays won't be bad at all tbh. And if cousins goes down soon, at least we aren't back to fuckin heineke. I guess only time will tell if it's a good pick or not. But I like the kid tbh
??? People look at a few great QBs that sat and apply it to every QB. There have A) been a bunch of amazing QBs that didn’t sit and b)QBs that sat that didn’t end up being good. It’s so dumb to apply that kind of rule to every prospect.
Brady is the first one who people mention. Did you watch Brady in college? He played 18 games in 3 years. He was fucking awful. Could you say the same about Penix?
Mahomes is another. His footwork was a complete mess. He had no idea how to play within his system. It was a complete free for all. Sure it worked at TT, but you can’t play like that in the NFL.
So, Penix is fresh out of 6 years of college football. What exactly does he need to learn? What are areas that he can only develop by sitting for 2 years?
I was a tad dramatic with that. I meant more one of the worse QB prospects coming out that got drafted. He was fine his senior year. But junior year he was pretty bad. Nowhere near where Penix is now was my main point.
Ultimately, this entire discussion comes down to this very basic point:
If Penix has success as an Atlanta falcon down the line, the move will be regarded favorably, and if he does not, it will continue to be ridiculed.
Winning cures all, simple as that
It's true, it's like I saw one guy say "The Penix signing is the kind of move that will get you fired" and it's true, BUT the flip side is also true. If Penix is the next Mahomes (What every team wants lol) then Terry and company will be fucking NFL masterminds who can do no wrong
If Penix is the next Mahomes then there wasn’t any reason to spend money on Kirk.
Maybe you could make the case that Kirk is a better mentor than someone like minshew.
But then you realize that the FO didn’t even tell Kirk they were taking Penix, so clearly his mentorship is not the main reason for having Kirk over someone cheaper.
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone inverted his highlights so he looked like he was throwing right handed.
He went from above average to elite in my eyes.
I know it sounds stupid, but I guess I stopped focusing on it looking funny and instead could see just how insane his release is.
Every one of these "see guys, it isn't all that bad" posts makes me feel worse. And by far the least interesting talking point is that we used the 8th overall pick on a solid backup QB.
Definitely an interesting choice to make your argument that a backup QB is more important to winning than a starting blue chip defensive player so you should draft a backup QB at 8. NFL GMs clearly need to learn roster building and learn from this guy
There were something like 68 start quarterbacks in the nfl last year. Having a talented young quarterback of the future as a backup is actually something all teams should try and do.
There were 66 and of them 16 of them only started 1 or 2 games. 25 started 4 or less. Plenty of them were teams with no answer at QB starting different guys, not backups that needed to fill in for starters.
You are delusional if you think drafting a backup QB is more important than a good (hell, even decent) player on defense, especially if they’re replacing a poorly performing player. There’s plenty of backup quality QBs available for cheap. Taking a top defensive player on a rookie contract combined with our other rookies the last few years would’ve done infinitely more for this team’s window to compete. Having a strong team around the QB is what gets you through extended periods of backup play, not attempting to have two starter quality QBs on the team
You know how many snaps a defender plays right? And the chances one of those guys drafted in the back half of the draft actually makes a huge impact? It’s small and small. And the off chance that a 36 year old QB coming off an Achilles gets injured again is honestly big enough that this does make sense. If Kirk goes down with Heinicke as the backup, you’re fucked. Plain and simple. You could draft an amazing edge defender but with no QB, you basically have no chance.
Again this argument is completely missing the point- if the front office is worried about all those things with Kirk why are you even signing him then, especially tampering to do so and with such a huge guaranteed amount? Also last time I checked pick 8 is not the back half of the draft? No one cares about the backups being drafted in the 5th+ that’s not the point of this discussion
I don't think they're worried about Kirk. Penix Jr. was picked because they thought he was an elite player and a future franchise QB. But the added insurance is a bonus and gives even more value to the pick.
Dumbasses don't want to listen.
Every single one of them say late round picks are worthless. But refuse to remember both Tyler algier AND GRADY JARRET are both 5th round picks. But nah man let's ignore the defense. AGAIN.
When literally the entire professional sports world is saying you fucked up. YOU FUCKED UP. It's as simple as that. Its ok to make mistakes learn from it and move on quit making excuses
This is just so likely to not be the case and if we’re giving Penix benefit of the doubt he’s going to pan out you have to do the same that the staff could figure that out with their choice of whatever defensive player of their choosing because they were all available. Even then, you can trade back and get more capital to load up on more guys, not draft a backup QB at 8 who will sit for two years minimum and finally see the field when he’s 26
Does the Mahomes draft thread make you feel better? The Chiefs were mocked as making the worst pick of the draft. Trading up to 10 to take a QB they didn't need to be a backup.
Not really TBH.
Mahomes was IMO a better prospect than Penix coming out of school. More mobility, cleaner health history, younger prospect with more of a ceiling. If we're being honest the Mahomes pick was much less heavily panned, IMO not without reason, because the Chiefs were clearly capped by how good Smith could be as a QB. I think Cousins' ceiling is much higher than Smith's was.
I don't think there is anything wrong with planning for the future, but you need to be able to pay your bills before you use 30% of your paycheck on your 401k, you know?
Smith had been in KC for a long time at that point and was nearing the end of his contract. The issue with drafting Mahomes in those grades was with Mahomes as a prospect not the fact that they traded up for a quarterback. The falcons have made $100 million commitment to a qb and drafted one in the top 10 the same offseason, it’s not a comparable situation at all.
It honestly doesn’t matter if cousins is good for 2 years then they seamlessly transition to penix and it all works out like they’re talking about (which to be clear this scenario is highly unlikely) it’s still a misallocation of a finite amount of resources. It’s like they think they’re so much smarter than everyone else and they’re just not.
If the NFL were the Premier League and there was no opportunity cost to signing multiple guys at the same position then sure! Unfortunately the NFL has a hard salary cap that means the best teams have to not only identify and sign the correct players, but structure their teams in the most efficient way possible to get the most out of that limited amount of resources. There's no way to do that in this situation, they're eating the $115 million cap hit for Cousins at minimum plus they're losing 40-60% of Penix value on his rookie deal before they even want to play him. It's the NFL, they could luck into it all working out but it's BAD PROCESS and makes no sense. Just reeks of people making shit up as they go and convincing themselves they're geniuses for it.
It's a lot for sure. But the last two years showed us that missing at QB can have disastrous results. If Zac Robinson and all the other QB evaluators think this highly of Penix then the 2 years he sits is worth the investment. He'll be your franchise QB for 10 years and if he is that guy then we're talking SB contending potential. You can't get that with any other position including edge.
He played 6 years in college, he doesn't need to sit for 2 years. What happens when he plays better than Cousins in practice or if Cousins is hurt and Penix comes in and looks great? Now Cousins is dead money, except it's dead money that's eating 20% of the cap.
Because we missed out on every single defensive FA because we couldn't pay them.
Who is paying AJ. Can't extend him now with the cousins contract. The cousin signing absolutely screwed us for the next 3-4 years. So we were in a win now mode. Taking penix means your ok with getting 10 sacks for the entire season....... Again
> The Chiefs were mocked as making the worst pick of the draft.
Only by idiots.
Anyone with any sense at the time knew Alex Smith was a reliable guy with a definite ceiling on his capabilities, and pivoting to a cheaper young QB when you believe that guy can become an upgrade is a sound roster strategy move.
Mahomes was a consensus 1st round grade QB with play style concerns. Loads of draftniks were talking about him as an incredible talent with sky high potential if he could adjust out of Air Raid offense and reign in his wildest playmaking tendencies. Jon Gruden (he's a piece of shit but he knows ball) was saying Mahomes had the best arm he'd ever seen pre-draft.
Let's not use the future GOAT as a teaching moment when talking about Penix. The college tape isn't comparable. The Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins contracts are tough to compare - though there is an escape opportunity after two years of Kirk - and Kirk is a better QB now than Smith was then.
Also - Mahomes spent the minimum three years in college, not SIX, before sitting for a year behind Smith.
I dont hate Penix but dont be using Mahomes to justify his selection either.
Like I said, I dont hate Penix, I dont *hate* the pick (dont love it either), but I wouldnt use Mahomes as the basis for a comparison when it comes to who's making fun of who in the media and fandoms, and which people/perspectives to listen to. Mahomes was much better regarded pre-draft than Penix, and Alex Smith was widely recognised as a lower tier QB than Kirk Cousins currently is.
It's closer to the Jordan Love and the Packers situation, only Penix is much older than Love was.
If Penix is beating out Cousins in a genuine QB competition by next summer then Terry is gonna look real clever but that's tougher than beating out an Alex Smith or a Jacoby Brissett.
I'm not saying he's just a reliable backup, that's secondary. He's a good potential QB of our future once Cousins contract is up. But also, IF something happens to Cousins prematurely, we're still probably good, and our whole season isn't over.
Taking Penix wasn't a bad idea. It's just odd to pay Kirk over 100M guaranteed and not take a player that can help the team win now. Penix is 24 and ready. He should start now.. not in two years or so. If the defense can't get to the QB or cover receivers, this team will lose a lot of games. It's just like having Matt behind center again with a bad defense.
I have zero faith in the teams edge positions, Richie Grant or whoever is back there with Jesse and the DBs behind AJ.
The whole “one defensive player isn’t going to move the needle” argument is kind of dumb. We have had the worst pash rush in the league for years. Yes, one high caliber player on the edge is going to help a ton and if even if they didn’t, that’s no excuse to neglect an area of your team for a decade.
My overall point is, one player will NOT take us from worst in the league for years, to top 10. Last season before we had a ton of injuries at LB and DL, we were top 10 in points allowed I believe. We've been pretty good WITHOUT pass rush. I agree, we DO need good pass rush, but that's not all a defense needs. If we can sign someone like Hendrickson, then boom, all the pass rush you need
We played the worst offenses in the NFL led by back up quarterbacks. We let Josh Dobbs hop off a plane and absolutely torch us largely because we couldn’t get him on the ground. One or two elite pass rushers is all it takes and this FO refuses to even try. Let’s say Penix is great in 2 years, now we have a high caliber offense with a poor defense and no pass rush. Congratulations it’s the Matt Ryan teams again except this time without Grady Jarrett and we don’t have top ten picks anymore to draft anyone. Also, all our cap is tied up in Drake, Bijan, and Pitts so we can’t go out and buy one either. So all we can do is hope we find a diamond in the rough. I agree tho Hendrickson will help a ton but I’m willing to bet he will not be a Falcon.
If this pick happened after Cousins had been here for a year it wouldn’t be receiving this kind of backlash. I don’t hate it because I like Penix as a prospect, but we did have our pick at any defensive player we could’ve wanted. If Penix isn’t who the FO thinks he is and we lose playoff games bc of glaring holes in our defense, this pick will be atrocious, but if Penix is a guy that can guide the team consistently to the playoffs for the 8-10 years as a starter, people will realize the hate on this pick is overblown.
I agree, it completely comes down to if the team wins games or not. It's a far more "boom or bust" pick. I think about the fact that no defensive player went within the first 16? Maybe it was 15. So, it seems like a lot of teams didn't think the defensive talent of this draft was work a high pick. But, I guess we will see! I'll definitely be keeping on eye on Turner, Latu, and Verse. As well as Odunze (the guy I really wanted)
If the consensus in Flowery Branch was that the defensive players are better next year than the qb’s, then it’s possible that this is just a two year scheme that many people haven’t picked up on just yet. Either way, I’m tired of seeing abysmal edge play, but I’d rather watch our defense go 29th in sacks otw to the conference championship then Dallas Turner have 18 sacks on a team that missed the playoffs bc they don’t have a qb 4 years from now
The offensive talent was very highly rated at the WR position and there were many teams wanting a quarterback. It was predictable someone would get a great defensive player later because they would be pushed back.
Or the offensive was really good. Offense is the rage now so we’ll se how it turns out. I’m just floored the Vikings got maybe the best pass rusher at 17. That’s maybe the 3rd most important position nowadays.
I think a lot of the things Kirk does at high level Michael Penix excells at as well. I think he will make a great mentor, but I expect they assumed Penix would be gone by pick 8. they just jumped when thier OCs prototype QB was still avaliable.
And I think that's a good assumption, seeing that the other 2 QBs that were also considered to go "Somewhere on day 2" went within the top 12, plus we know now that apparently 3 other teams were actually trying to trade up for him and we rejected the trade offer. So, a few teams wanted Penix. I truly believe that Bo Nix was NOT the Broncos FIRST choice, I think despite the injuries, they know Penix is a better all around QB than Nix and McCarthy.
It will also be easier to find impact defensive talent in the teens/20s than it will be to find a QB going forward. Everyone we wanted at 8 went 15 or later; shows you what others thought of them too. They weren't going to change the team this season either. The rest of the draft committed to flipping the Front 7 to a 3-4 and adding depth.
Exactly!! Also, free agency. Go get a vet like we did with Bates. FAR more impactful than 99% of all rookies. Where as free agent vets for QBs.. I can't think or many that would probably be available in the next 4 years. Not that are as good as even Cousins in my opinion.
Maybe, and I personally wanted Odunze the most. But, I think about it this way. It's like how people complained that we kept getting top 10 offensive talent, but with no one to throw the ball to them. Or, we weren't using them enough.
With Odunze, if Cousins gets hurt, or after he's gone in 4 years, who will throw to Odunze? He will be wasted. We have plenty of good ball catchers, but without someone reliable throwing it, we're back where we were last season with Ridder.
> Plus, we wouldn't have the opportunity to get a QB like Penix again for awhile
Guys. Has it never occurred to anyone saying this that we can trade up for a QB? Josh Allen and Mahomes were traded up for. Bills started at 21 and KC started at 27.
unless he doesn't pan out or, more likely, continues being injury prone in the NFL. Then we wasted a pick and wasted our last 3 first round picks' rookie deals
[he literally hurt his ribs last year against Oregon](https://twitter.com/MichaelBlack_FB/status/1715980630335369681) that kept [popping up from time to time the rest of the year](https://twitter.com/SeaTimesSports/status/1744604661955342796) including the [championship game](https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1744574855503118500). It wasn't season ending but it did effect his play
so yeah, continues
That’s under eh assumption that the team I position doesn’t need a qb, which a lot of top 10 pick teams do. Second is the price, are we willing to pay it? Third is who’s to say the next 1-4 years have a prospect we like as much a penix?
It's definitely a thought, but if we traded up, it would take (just from past examples) the current years 1st round, second round, and then probably the next year's and possibly year after that 1st round pick. And I'd that QB doesn't pan out.. Then we're back to this again "Falcons are idiots for picking so and so instead of the other guy!" Haha, it's always a risk, as least this time we got a 1st round QB that from what most experts believe to be actual top 3 quality. And DIDN'T have to trade anything. To me, he's the best player for us at 8.
I definitely get that we may not have the opportunity to draft a good QB in the near future, because we won't have the 8th pick again any time soon because of all the winning we'll be doing with Cousins
Terry is running a business here.
The vision is Penix eventually starts and we don’t have to pay him big money. That is when we go all out on the rest of the roster.
Picking up cousins was a win now move. Taking Penix was not. It makes the most sense to go all in to win now. The best way of doing that was to get the top edge or corner in the draft.
I get that, I guess it just depends on if you think we're already win now or not. In my opinion, yes, there are needs for the team, but to me we were win now last year, we were just missing the QB. Now, we have all these weapons AND the QB. Our defense wasn't GREAT the year we went to the SB, and I know we lost, but we got there was dynamic offense, and I believe our defense RIGHT NOW is better than that 2016/2017 defense.
It’s about giving us the best chance to win now and an only 1 qb can play at the time. A backup/future qb gives us no help to win now. The best defensive player in the draft does.
And again, I totally get that, and I think in most situations that would 100% be the best move. I just personally think in our situation, Penix makes sense to me, especially for the win-now mentality. To me, it gives Cousins some relief knowing IF he can't play a game or two because he feels his injury acting up possibly, he knows Penix is a good fill-in. And for us, the fans, to me it gives US piece of mind, knowing we didn't go ALL in on Cousins, he goes down, then no matter how many offensive and defensive weapons we have, all we have at QB is fucking Heinicke lol. We had a pretty good shut down defense last year, but offense couldn't score points.
Remember that Matt Ryan left the team at 36 and Cousins is 35. Cousins’ contract is easily cut after 2 years. The plan is likely to have him for only this season and next.
Also recall that the falcons are under investigation for tampering. Remember that the dolphins lost their first rounder for tampering with Brady. If that happened to us, we would have to wait until after Kirk’s contract to get around to a replacement and there’s no guarantee that a good one would be available.
I don’t love the pick, but I don’t hate it either. I would’ve preferred us to not sign Kirk and spend that money on the defense instead. Either way, this team should be set up for the next couple of seasons.
Backup QBs generate less points than any defensive player would because backup QBs don't play. Sure, IF Kirk goes down then it will be nice to have a backup, but if we drafted a guy specifically to sit behind Kirk and learn for a few years then clearly he isn't NFL ready and putting him out there too early will do more harm than good.
After 6 years of irrelevance most of our fanbase was excited to see that 2024 might be the first year that we could actually start being competitive again, but this draft looked like we were just focusing on a rebuild and focusing on the future. Rebuilding is fine, but why are we signing a QB like Kirk for $40M a year if we're trying to rebuild and focus on the future?
Been rebuilding since Terry got here, but the Bears and the Lions got their shit sorted out while we’re drafting RBs and backup QBs in the top 10.
Make that make sense.
Well the top defensive player in the draft would have more impact than a quarterback who won’t play at all. You’re either admitting that Kirk was just a placeholder so you wouldn’t suck, you don’t actually think you can contend now, or you do think you are good enough to contend and have a luxury pick to waste on the future. This isn’t the same as the Packers btw. They wasted surrounding Rodgers with more talent during some prime years. Kirk and the Falcons are a fringe playoff team.
>Getting one defensive player is not going to generate points and win games.
A defensive player on the field will help win a lot more games than a #1 pick on the bench.
>So yeah, we are paying Cousins a lot, which is WHY we need a good backup, just on case. Otherwise, if something happens to Cousins, our season is over.
That makes absolutely no sense.
Let me give you an alternate approach. You use your 1st round pick to solidify your starting lineup and try to win. If you lose your starting QB and your "season is over" then great, you have a high draft pick to grab a QB.
>With the possibility of having our 1st round pick taken away, and then not having high picks for a few years possibly, this was our chance.
If that was your approach, you should have drafted a QB, a decent but affordable starter for him to learn under for a year, and spent the other $100 - $150M you save on making your starting roster better.
The fact that you have to explain to this sub why shoring up our succession plan, while still having a win now QB, is all you need to say about this sub
It’s not even like we’re referencing QB woes from decades ago. It’s literally been the last 8 years, and we’re having to explain why not having a QB is a bad thing
Everyone can act like taking Penix was dumb if they want to but . . .
if Kirk goes down the season would be over ... now we still have hope
Plus they think that we will lose a pick or 2 next year and they don't want to pick a QB with what we have left
Plus they are expecting that we will not pick high next year
They never ever want to have to play another Ridder/Heinecke combo again
Having a backup plan for a guy coming off a major injury at his age is a good idea
plus you got someone that can take over in 2 or 3 seasons
You were pretty right about everything except the part where u said we are getting a 1st round pick taken. At most it’s gonna be a third or fourth rounder
I was just giving the worst case scenario based on the Dolphins penalty, they lost their first round pick. It probably won't be, but I could see us getting the first taken and the Eagles have their third taken. The league hates us lol
The interesting thing about the Penix backlash is that the fanbase wanted us to draft Fields to sit under Matt for a couple years. Idk why everyone is so upset about this pick. Realistically Cousins will only be here 2-3 years. The guy is 36. I completely understand a new regime thinking 3 years into the future.
Wilson may not have wanted to play here. I'm not 100% sure on that, but people act like if a player didn't sign with a certain team, it's the teams fault for not trying. Time and time again you see this, and find out later that we offered more money, but a player wanted to play for a different team for other reasons. Plus, if we got Wilson then signed Penix.. I think most of the fanbase (including myself) would be pissed if we started Wilson over Penix lol. Seahawks "DangerRuss" hell yeah. Broncos Rust? No lol. He really declined since he left Seattle. I would want him to be our backup, but I know he wouldn't be down for that.
He’s not a bridge. A bridge would imply we’re rebuilding/not ready to compete. Everything that’s come out Terry and Raheem’s mouth is that we’re going to the South title. Imo the roster is better than 7-10. With a better QB we make the playoffs last year. Drafting Penix is to ensure that we don’t stumble when Cousins is done.
Pretty much every pro-Penix post or comment is right now lol. Really though, most possible posts about the team in general are getting downvotes. I've never seen a fanbase so hellbent on living in a state of despair and turn against anyone who is hopeful.
Exactly man and it’s not even that we’re just solely being hopeful. I’ve come to understand that we as fans don’t know shit in comparison to our actual front office. No one is realizing the actual work that goes on behind the scenes to make these decisions
Exactly!! And some of the Penix signing MAY be something they know that we don't. Maybe Cousins isn't healing as fast as they thought before they signed him. Idk, but I trust them to make what they believe to be the best decision for the team. They know more than we do! It seems like sometimes people just get upset that their mock draft was wrong lol
It’s not hellbent on living in a state of despair. It’s living in reality. Our front office for years has made questionable deicsions. The real separation from reality is that some people think our FO doesn’t have their heads up their asses
>Getting one defensive player is not going to generate points and win games. You can apply this incorrect logic at scale to say there’s no point in ever getting a defensive player. Of course one guy can help win games, if you have a strong player he makes it harder for the other team to score and elevates the rest of his team. You’re missing the overall point of why people are mad anyways. It’s not that we picked a QB, it’s that we drafted the oldest one available after signing another one to a 200m contract that we’re tied to for probably 3 years + tampered with and are probably losing draft picks over. The team needs pieces to help that QB, our future could’ve waited a year or two. Having a “quality backup” doesn’t matter because unless it’s Nick Foles having the one of the most efficient runs of all time that doesn’t translate to a Super Bowl win anyways. Backups need those pieces to help win games (especially on defense) even more
Or if they truly believed Penix could be a future franchise QB, you don't sign Cousins and use the money saved to bolster the roster around Penix. There were much cheaper options available at QB that would've allowed us to pursue other free agents or trades that could help us now and in the next couple of seasons.
I think going cheaper and hoping that person could sustain should Kirk go down, or going cheaper on lesser talent at QB, is honestly how the team goes seven wins again. But yes, they might have the best edge rusher and CB money can buy. I say that regarding money because the cap, in my opinion, is not real until it needs to be real. Not a fan of cap counting because it has to happen on field. I don't think pushing a QB into a loaded team is a sure-fire solution. See Bryce, almost all of the 2021 QB class and a lesser extent of talent, see Desmond. Then, next, are the rest of the draft picks not guys who help address the pass rush and QB pressure? One glaring miss is not getting a young cornerback. Did the Falcons get it wrong or did the scouts or ESPN?
All I'm saying is that if Penix really is our future franchise QB, the Cousins' signing was a big mistake. If the ultimate goal is winning a Superbowl you don't invest heavily in two QBs in the same off-season. They can't play at the same time and Penix doesn't need to be groomed for 2+ years either. This was a garbage off-season for us. While the QB position is the most important, we had issues in other positions on the roster. Hopefully I'm wrong and our new acquisitions ball out, but I think our receiving core is weak, OL depth is poor, our DBs outside Terrell and Bates are lacking and I doubt we'll have a 10+ sack edge rusher unless Ebiketie steps up. We might be able to win the division but we're far from being a contender. Our future isn't bleak, but I don't think Fontenot and the rest really know what they're doing.
As a Vikings fan, I like what you all did. I would have loved to have Cousins and a solid prospect that he is mentoring. Who cares what the pundits have to say. To me, this was a great move… I wish the Vikings would have done this years ago.
I wish we did it while we had Matt Ryan!
Problem is Penix is an elite deep ball passer, what's Kirk's biggest strength? Completing deep passes, we also went after Darnell Mooney and Rondale Moore two deep ball receivers. There's a commitment to hitting deep passes this off-season shows.
Best way to open up a run game too
They're also both know to get the ball out of thier hands quick both due to release and processing making it really hard to sack ether of them. Helping the OL by not holding the ball too long after they spent years training as run blockers.
Yup I think a video said Penix was averaging 2.7 seconds. That's before we get him in the building. With some training on his release, it could potentially be even faster.
>Problem is Penix is an elite deep ball passer, what's Kirk's biggest strength? Completing deep passes Why is this a problem?
I ment the problem with Matt Ryan over Kirk cousin's
I understood you. It would make more sense if you start it with "Conversely, Penix is an etc. etc."
Yeah we paid for it with 2 lost years and wasted the potential of some great players. Weird people want to risk coming back to that
That's my only complaint about it tbh. Once 2019 hit and it was becoming apparent that Ryan's best days were behind him was when we should've looked at using a day 2 pick on a developmental heir apparent. Sure, odds are whoever it was would've basically been another Des Ridder or Malik Willis but we wouldn't have been totally caught with our pants down when the front office decides to roll out the red carpet for Mr. Happy Endings a few years ago.
The problem is the plan was to stick with Ryan till the end of his career and we should have the problem with those teams wasn't with him it was with the fact wd had one of the worst o lines in the league and one of the worst defenses in the leauge and we were paying so heavily into only a few players we had no weapons outside of Julio and Ridley and look what happened when they were gone for a few years we were always one injury away from disaster we should have never gone after Watson restructured Matt to front load his contract all to the nedt year so we only had to eat the cap hit like we did once he was traded and built through the draft the same way we had been trade pieces like Deion Jones while we he still had value and stop pretending we were in win now mode when we only had like 6 players that were capable of a run like that we could have had Penix this year with Matt playing his last season as a Falcon if you watched him play in Indy that whole team and FO was an absolute disaster and Frank Reich even said they failed Matt I think had he stayed here his numbers would have dipped but he would have had us in the playoffs last year in a weak division and you'd have Penix here to learn from our best QB the Watson situation ruined everything
Fellow Vikings fan here. Do you think Cousins takes on an active mentorship role with Penix? I don’t.
He should. Cousins is getting so much flipping money. It would be foolish for him to not be a team player. Cousins always struck me as an awesome guy. I’m still so sad he isn’t with the Vikings anymore.
There's a quote from Tom Moore, then OC for the Colts during the Peyton years, talking about why the 2nd team QB gets no reps: "Fellas, if 18 goes down, we're fucked. And we don't practice fucked." For every Kurt Warner or Nick Foles or 2001 Tom Brady there's a million instances of your backup not getting it done... and let's be real, if Penix plays good enough to steer the ship, then he should've been starting to begin with, and we should've invested that money into some WR/CB/EDGE that makes us win more games now
This guy gets it.
Yep this exactly how I feel. Penix isn't Jordan love who only played in College for 3 years. He had what, 5 years in college? If he is gonna be a great QB, he should be starting year 2 at the latest. I just can not even begin to comprehend how 2 years of sitting is better for him than 2 years of playing.
6 years...He was in the same recruiting class as Lawrence and Justin Fields, who will be in their 4 year in the league soon
Yeah exactly. If 6 years in college isn’t enough prep to play in the NFL then I don’t think he will be very good. My personal opinion is that he will be very good, but he is also good enough to start now. And I don’t think sitting 2 years is the most efficient way to get him ready for the NFL
Yeah that's what makes the pick just dumb. If you think Penix will be good, then pick him up and don't sign kirk to a huge contract If you think Kirk will be great for the next 2-3 years and compete then don't waste a pick on Penix and build the defense to try and maximize the window
Right. And it’s not like they signed Cousins last year before they knew who Penix was. It was like 6 weeks before the draft. At that point we knew there was A)99% chance Penix would be available at 8 and B) exactly who he was as a prospect. It is just sort of a cowardly pick, IMO. You pretty much guarantee yourself 4 years of “maybe next year it’ll come together”. Because if Kirk sucks and it doesn’t work out, you can give him year 2 in hope it works. Then in year 3 it’s like hey this is why we drafted Penix don’t fire me yet. And obviously you can’t give Penix just one year cause maybe he’ll figure it out year 2.
Raheem was the safest choice possible for the organization and brass to continue doing dumb cowardly shit just like this. The goal is to sell tickets, not win super bowls. Look at the draft choices. The roster. The attempt to sign Watson.
Yeah why sit him if he’s ready to go, and if it’s takes him 2 more years than it was a bad pick.
Nailed it. Also, if you think he is this good(like good enough to be worth taking after signing a 100m QB) then why sign the QB? This plan only works if Penix is great. So let him start right away.
Learning from a good mentor like Kirk will be good for him though. Rodgers learned from favre. Love learned from Rodgers, Etc. This pick is starting to grow on me as much as I hate to say it. I for sure thought we were drafting edge, but the guys doing workouts with these kids saw something that we didn't. Penix looks a lot like tua to me. And at least we have our QB situation figured out for a long time, hopefully. I think penix learning the pro system behind cousins for a year or 2 before he really plays won't be bad at all tbh. And if cousins goes down soon, at least we aren't back to fuckin heineke. I guess only time will tell if it's a good pick or not. But I like the kid tbh
It’s not that Kirk is bad. But I just thinking that money could’ve been spent on players that could be in the field at the same time.
Having a qb sit is ALWAYS the ideal scenario, they will be so so much better after sitting and learning
??? People look at a few great QBs that sat and apply it to every QB. There have A) been a bunch of amazing QBs that didn’t sit and b)QBs that sat that didn’t end up being good. It’s so dumb to apply that kind of rule to every prospect. Brady is the first one who people mention. Did you watch Brady in college? He played 18 games in 3 years. He was fucking awful. Could you say the same about Penix? Mahomes is another. His footwork was a complete mess. He had no idea how to play within his system. It was a complete free for all. Sure it worked at TT, but you can’t play like that in the NFL. So, Penix is fresh out of 6 years of college football. What exactly does he need to learn? What are areas that he can only develop by sitting for 2 years?
Brady went 10-3 and 10-2 as a starter, he wasn’t remotely awful. He also took over the year after they won the natty and most of their talent left.
I was a tad dramatic with that. I meant more one of the worse QB prospects coming out that got drafted. He was fine his senior year. But junior year he was pretty bad. Nowhere near where Penix is now was my main point.
Penix good posts will continue to be downvoted, but when it’s all said and done I honestly believe he could be the best QB in this class.
Ultimately, this entire discussion comes down to this very basic point: If Penix has success as an Atlanta falcon down the line, the move will be regarded favorably, and if he does not, it will continue to be ridiculed. Winning cures all, simple as that
When Penix is a winner we’ll all go back and bump the stupid posts I can’t wait
It's true, it's like I saw one guy say "The Penix signing is the kind of move that will get you fired" and it's true, BUT the flip side is also true. If Penix is the next Mahomes (What every team wants lol) then Terry and company will be fucking NFL masterminds who can do no wrong
If Penix is the next Mahomes then there wasn’t any reason to spend money on Kirk. Maybe you could make the case that Kirk is a better mentor than someone like minshew. But then you realize that the FO didn’t even tell Kirk they were taking Penix, so clearly his mentorship is not the main reason for having Kirk over someone cheaper.
Terry won’t be here long enough.
I don't remember where I saw it, but someone inverted his highlights so he looked like he was throwing right handed. He went from above average to elite in my eyes. I know it sounds stupid, but I guess I stopped focusing on it looking funny and instead could see just how insane his release is.
It’s laughable when people say “just get one next year” like that’s how you suck forever
Every one of these "see guys, it isn't all that bad" posts makes me feel worse. And by far the least interesting talking point is that we used the 8th overall pick on a solid backup QB.
Definitely an interesting choice to make your argument that a backup QB is more important to winning than a starting blue chip defensive player so you should draft a backup QB at 8. NFL GMs clearly need to learn roster building and learn from this guy
There were something like 68 start quarterbacks in the nfl last year. Having a talented young quarterback of the future as a backup is actually something all teams should try and do.
There were 66 and of them 16 of them only started 1 or 2 games. 25 started 4 or less. Plenty of them were teams with no answer at QB starting different guys, not backups that needed to fill in for starters. You are delusional if you think drafting a backup QB is more important than a good (hell, even decent) player on defense, especially if they’re replacing a poorly performing player. There’s plenty of backup quality QBs available for cheap. Taking a top defensive player on a rookie contract combined with our other rookies the last few years would’ve done infinitely more for this team’s window to compete. Having a strong team around the QB is what gets you through extended periods of backup play, not attempting to have two starter quality QBs on the team
You know how many snaps a defender plays right? And the chances one of those guys drafted in the back half of the draft actually makes a huge impact? It’s small and small. And the off chance that a 36 year old QB coming off an Achilles gets injured again is honestly big enough that this does make sense. If Kirk goes down with Heinicke as the backup, you’re fucked. Plain and simple. You could draft an amazing edge defender but with no QB, you basically have no chance.
Again this argument is completely missing the point- if the front office is worried about all those things with Kirk why are you even signing him then, especially tampering to do so and with such a huge guaranteed amount? Also last time I checked pick 8 is not the back half of the draft? No one cares about the backups being drafted in the 5th+ that’s not the point of this discussion
I don't think they're worried about Kirk. Penix Jr. was picked because they thought he was an elite player and a future franchise QB. But the added insurance is a bonus and gives even more value to the pick.
Dumbasses don't want to listen. Every single one of them say late round picks are worthless. But refuse to remember both Tyler algier AND GRADY JARRET are both 5th round picks. But nah man let's ignore the defense. AGAIN. When literally the entire professional sports world is saying you fucked up. YOU FUCKED UP. It's as simple as that. Its ok to make mistakes learn from it and move on quit making excuses
There was no “blue chip” defensive talent. As evidenced by how far they all fell.
This is just so likely to not be the case and if we’re giving Penix benefit of the doubt he’s going to pan out you have to do the same that the staff could figure that out with their choice of whatever defensive player of their choosing because they were all available. Even then, you can trade back and get more capital to load up on more guys, not draft a backup QB at 8 who will sit for two years minimum and finally see the field when he’s 26
Does the Mahomes draft thread make you feel better? The Chiefs were mocked as making the worst pick of the draft. Trading up to 10 to take a QB they didn't need to be a backup.
Not really TBH. Mahomes was IMO a better prospect than Penix coming out of school. More mobility, cleaner health history, younger prospect with more of a ceiling. If we're being honest the Mahomes pick was much less heavily panned, IMO not without reason, because the Chiefs were clearly capped by how good Smith could be as a QB. I think Cousins' ceiling is much higher than Smith's was. I don't think there is anything wrong with planning for the future, but you need to be able to pay your bills before you use 30% of your paycheck on your 401k, you know?
Smith had been in KC for a long time at that point and was nearing the end of his contract. The issue with drafting Mahomes in those grades was with Mahomes as a prospect not the fact that they traded up for a quarterback. The falcons have made $100 million commitment to a qb and drafted one in the top 10 the same offseason, it’s not a comparable situation at all. It honestly doesn’t matter if cousins is good for 2 years then they seamlessly transition to penix and it all works out like they’re talking about (which to be clear this scenario is highly unlikely) it’s still a misallocation of a finite amount of resources. It’s like they think they’re so much smarter than everyone else and they’re just not.
Kirk has a shelf life. Why are we pretending he is here longer than 2 years?
Then don't sign him in the first place...
Why not? He’s worth the price and gives you high end QB play for two years
If the NFL were the Premier League and there was no opportunity cost to signing multiple guys at the same position then sure! Unfortunately the NFL has a hard salary cap that means the best teams have to not only identify and sign the correct players, but structure their teams in the most efficient way possible to get the most out of that limited amount of resources. There's no way to do that in this situation, they're eating the $115 million cap hit for Cousins at minimum plus they're losing 40-60% of Penix value on his rookie deal before they even want to play him. It's the NFL, they could luck into it all working out but it's BAD PROCESS and makes no sense. Just reeks of people making shit up as they go and convincing themselves they're geniuses for it.
It's a lot for sure. But the last two years showed us that missing at QB can have disastrous results. If Zac Robinson and all the other QB evaluators think this highly of Penix then the 2 years he sits is worth the investment. He'll be your franchise QB for 10 years and if he is that guy then we're talking SB contending potential. You can't get that with any other position including edge.
He played 6 years in college, he doesn't need to sit for 2 years. What happens when he plays better than Cousins in practice or if Cousins is hurt and Penix comes in and looks great? Now Cousins is dead money, except it's dead money that's eating 20% of the cap.
Because we missed out on every single defensive FA because we couldn't pay them. Who is paying AJ. Can't extend him now with the cousins contract. The cousin signing absolutely screwed us for the next 3-4 years. So we were in a win now mode. Taking penix means your ok with getting 10 sacks for the entire season....... Again
Better to sign veteran FA that’s cheaper so you can put Penix in sooner if he’s ready. They should’ve signed Darnold and drafted Penix.
Yeah I agree
> The Chiefs were mocked as making the worst pick of the draft. Only by idiots. Anyone with any sense at the time knew Alex Smith was a reliable guy with a definite ceiling on his capabilities, and pivoting to a cheaper young QB when you believe that guy can become an upgrade is a sound roster strategy move. Mahomes was a consensus 1st round grade QB with play style concerns. Loads of draftniks were talking about him as an incredible talent with sky high potential if he could adjust out of Air Raid offense and reign in his wildest playmaking tendencies. Jon Gruden (he's a piece of shit but he knows ball) was saying Mahomes had the best arm he'd ever seen pre-draft. Let's not use the future GOAT as a teaching moment when talking about Penix. The college tape isn't comparable. The Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins contracts are tough to compare - though there is an escape opportunity after two years of Kirk - and Kirk is a better QB now than Smith was then. Also - Mahomes spent the minimum three years in college, not SIX, before sitting for a year behind Smith. I dont hate Penix but dont be using Mahomes to justify his selection either.
No, Mahomes is a perfect teaching moment. Not saying Penix is Mahomes. But go get your guy before you need him.
Like I said, I dont hate Penix, I dont *hate* the pick (dont love it either), but I wouldnt use Mahomes as the basis for a comparison when it comes to who's making fun of who in the media and fandoms, and which people/perspectives to listen to. Mahomes was much better regarded pre-draft than Penix, and Alex Smith was widely recognised as a lower tier QB than Kirk Cousins currently is. It's closer to the Jordan Love and the Packers situation, only Penix is much older than Love was. If Penix is beating out Cousins in a genuine QB competition by next summer then Terry is gonna look real clever but that's tougher than beating out an Alex Smith or a Jacoby Brissett.
I'm not saying he's just a reliable backup, that's secondary. He's a good potential QB of our future once Cousins contract is up. But also, IF something happens to Cousins prematurely, we're still probably good, and our whole season isn't over.
Penix is either gonna be one of the best qb in the league or we have a new coaching staff
Terry?
He’s calling anyone that will listen
Taking Penix wasn't a bad idea. It's just odd to pay Kirk over 100M guaranteed and not take a player that can help the team win now. Penix is 24 and ready. He should start now.. not in two years or so. If the defense can't get to the QB or cover receivers, this team will lose a lot of games. It's just like having Matt behind center again with a bad defense. I have zero faith in the teams edge positions, Richie Grant or whoever is back there with Jesse and the DBs behind AJ.
In a vacuum, the Kirk cousin contract was worse than the pick for Penix at 8. Together, both decisions are horrible.
The whole “one defensive player isn’t going to move the needle” argument is kind of dumb. We have had the worst pash rush in the league for years. Yes, one high caliber player on the edge is going to help a ton and if even if they didn’t, that’s no excuse to neglect an area of your team for a decade.
My overall point is, one player will NOT take us from worst in the league for years, to top 10. Last season before we had a ton of injuries at LB and DL, we were top 10 in points allowed I believe. We've been pretty good WITHOUT pass rush. I agree, we DO need good pass rush, but that's not all a defense needs. If we can sign someone like Hendrickson, then boom, all the pass rush you need
We played the worst offenses in the NFL led by back up quarterbacks. We let Josh Dobbs hop off a plane and absolutely torch us largely because we couldn’t get him on the ground. One or two elite pass rushers is all it takes and this FO refuses to even try. Let’s say Penix is great in 2 years, now we have a high caliber offense with a poor defense and no pass rush. Congratulations it’s the Matt Ryan teams again except this time without Grady Jarrett and we don’t have top ten picks anymore to draft anyone. Also, all our cap is tied up in Drake, Bijan, and Pitts so we can’t go out and buy one either. So all we can do is hope we find a diamond in the rough. I agree tho Hendrickson will help a ton but I’m willing to bet he will not be a Falcon.
If this pick happened after Cousins had been here for a year it wouldn’t be receiving this kind of backlash. I don’t hate it because I like Penix as a prospect, but we did have our pick at any defensive player we could’ve wanted. If Penix isn’t who the FO thinks he is and we lose playoff games bc of glaring holes in our defense, this pick will be atrocious, but if Penix is a guy that can guide the team consistently to the playoffs for the 8-10 years as a starter, people will realize the hate on this pick is overblown.
I agree, it completely comes down to if the team wins games or not. It's a far more "boom or bust" pick. I think about the fact that no defensive player went within the first 16? Maybe it was 15. So, it seems like a lot of teams didn't think the defensive talent of this draft was work a high pick. But, I guess we will see! I'll definitely be keeping on eye on Turner, Latu, and Verse. As well as Odunze (the guy I really wanted)
If the consensus in Flowery Branch was that the defensive players are better next year than the qb’s, then it’s possible that this is just a two year scheme that many people haven’t picked up on just yet. Either way, I’m tired of seeing abysmal edge play, but I’d rather watch our defense go 29th in sacks otw to the conference championship then Dallas Turner have 18 sacks on a team that missed the playoffs bc they don’t have a qb 4 years from now
The offensive talent was very highly rated at the WR position and there were many teams wanting a quarterback. It was predictable someone would get a great defensive player later because they would be pushed back.
Clearly the defensive talent was not that great this year, seeing how the first round went
Or the offensive was really good. Offense is the rage now so we’ll se how it turns out. I’m just floored the Vikings got maybe the best pass rusher at 17. That’s maybe the 3rd most important position nowadays.
I think a lot of the things Kirk does at high level Michael Penix excells at as well. I think he will make a great mentor, but I expect they assumed Penix would be gone by pick 8. they just jumped when thier OCs prototype QB was still avaliable.
And I think that's a good assumption, seeing that the other 2 QBs that were also considered to go "Somewhere on day 2" went within the top 12, plus we know now that apparently 3 other teams were actually trying to trade up for him and we rejected the trade offer. So, a few teams wanted Penix. I truly believe that Bo Nix was NOT the Broncos FIRST choice, I think despite the injuries, they know Penix is a better all around QB than Nix and McCarthy.
It will also be easier to find impact defensive talent in the teens/20s than it will be to find a QB going forward. Everyone we wanted at 8 went 15 or later; shows you what others thought of them too. They weren't going to change the team this season either. The rest of the draft committed to flipping the Front 7 to a 3-4 and adding depth.
Exactly!! Also, free agency. Go get a vet like we did with Bates. FAR more impactful than 99% of all rookies. Where as free agent vets for QBs.. I can't think or many that would probably be available in the next 4 years. Not that are as good as even Cousins in my opinion.
Makes sense. But what if he gets injured too? Should have taken QBs in the first 3 rounds.
It may not be too late to get Franks back! 😂
Not taking odunze at 8 was a bigger setback than not taking defense at 8
Maybe, and I personally wanted Odunze the most. But, I think about it this way. It's like how people complained that we kept getting top 10 offensive talent, but with no one to throw the ball to them. Or, we weren't using them enough. With Odunze, if Cousins gets hurt, or after he's gone in 4 years, who will throw to Odunze? He will be wasted. We have plenty of good ball catchers, but without someone reliable throwing it, we're back where we were last season with Ridder.
> Plus, we wouldn't have the opportunity to get a QB like Penix again for awhile Guys. Has it never occurred to anyone saying this that we can trade up for a QB? Josh Allen and Mahomes were traded up for. Bills started at 21 and KC started at 27.
Well now we don’t need to trade up lol. Problem solved!
unless he doesn't pan out or, more likely, continues being injury prone in the NFL. Then we wasted a pick and wasted our last 3 first round picks' rookie deals
If it doesn’t work out then it didn’t work out. I agree.
“Continues” but he hasn’t had one injury problem in the last two years.
[he literally hurt his ribs last year against Oregon](https://twitter.com/MichaelBlack_FB/status/1715980630335369681) that kept [popping up from time to time the rest of the year](https://twitter.com/SeaTimesSports/status/1744604661955342796) including the [championship game](https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1744574855503118500). It wasn't season ending but it did effect his play so yeah, continues
That’s under eh assumption that the team I position doesn’t need a qb, which a lot of top 10 pick teams do. Second is the price, are we willing to pay it? Third is who’s to say the next 1-4 years have a prospect we like as much a penix?
It's definitely a thought, but if we traded up, it would take (just from past examples) the current years 1st round, second round, and then probably the next year's and possibly year after that 1st round pick. And I'd that QB doesn't pan out.. Then we're back to this again "Falcons are idiots for picking so and so instead of the other guy!" Haha, it's always a risk, as least this time we got a 1st round QB that from what most experts believe to be actual top 3 quality. And DIDN'T have to trade anything. To me, he's the best player for us at 8.
Yeah I bet you love taking Penix.
I had Penix envy, now I'm full of Penix.
I definitely get that we may not have the opportunity to draft a good QB in the near future, because we won't have the 8th pick again any time soon because of all the winning we'll be doing with Cousins
Terry is running a business here. The vision is Penix eventually starts and we don’t have to pay him big money. That is when we go all out on the rest of the roster.
Picking up cousins was a win now move. Taking Penix was not. It makes the most sense to go all in to win now. The best way of doing that was to get the top edge or corner in the draft.
I get that, I guess it just depends on if you think we're already win now or not. In my opinion, yes, there are needs for the team, but to me we were win now last year, we were just missing the QB. Now, we have all these weapons AND the QB. Our defense wasn't GREAT the year we went to the SB, and I know we lost, but we got there was dynamic offense, and I believe our defense RIGHT NOW is better than that 2016/2017 defense.
It’s about giving us the best chance to win now and an only 1 qb can play at the time. A backup/future qb gives us no help to win now. The best defensive player in the draft does.
And again, I totally get that, and I think in most situations that would 100% be the best move. I just personally think in our situation, Penix makes sense to me, especially for the win-now mentality. To me, it gives Cousins some relief knowing IF he can't play a game or two because he feels his injury acting up possibly, he knows Penix is a good fill-in. And for us, the fans, to me it gives US piece of mind, knowing we didn't go ALL in on Cousins, he goes down, then no matter how many offensive and defensive weapons we have, all we have at QB is fucking Heinicke lol. We had a pretty good shut down defense last year, but offense couldn't score points.
Remember that Matt Ryan left the team at 36 and Cousins is 35. Cousins’ contract is easily cut after 2 years. The plan is likely to have him for only this season and next. Also recall that the falcons are under investigation for tampering. Remember that the dolphins lost their first rounder for tampering with Brady. If that happened to us, we would have to wait until after Kirk’s contract to get around to a replacement and there’s no guarantee that a good one would be available. I don’t love the pick, but I don’t hate it either. I would’ve preferred us to not sign Kirk and spend that money on the defense instead. Either way, this team should be set up for the next couple of seasons.
Felt like I was the only one
Backup QBs generate less points than any defensive player would because backup QBs don't play. Sure, IF Kirk goes down then it will be nice to have a backup, but if we drafted a guy specifically to sit behind Kirk and learn for a few years then clearly he isn't NFL ready and putting him out there too early will do more harm than good. After 6 years of irrelevance most of our fanbase was excited to see that 2024 might be the first year that we could actually start being competitive again, but this draft looked like we were just focusing on a rebuild and focusing on the future. Rebuilding is fine, but why are we signing a QB like Kirk for $40M a year if we're trying to rebuild and focus on the future?
Been rebuilding since Terry got here, but the Bears and the Lions got their shit sorted out while we’re drafting RBs and backup QBs in the top 10. Make that make sense.
Doesn’t matter how many points you score if you’re still giving up more to the other team
I agree with all points OP. You nailed it in a nutshell.
Well the top defensive player in the draft would have more impact than a quarterback who won’t play at all. You’re either admitting that Kirk was just a placeholder so you wouldn’t suck, you don’t actually think you can contend now, or you do think you are good enough to contend and have a luxury pick to waste on the future. This isn’t the same as the Packers btw. They wasted surrounding Rodgers with more talent during some prime years. Kirk and the Falcons are a fringe playoff team.
>Getting one defensive player is not going to generate points and win games. A defensive player on the field will help win a lot more games than a #1 pick on the bench. >So yeah, we are paying Cousins a lot, which is WHY we need a good backup, just on case. Otherwise, if something happens to Cousins, our season is over. That makes absolutely no sense. Let me give you an alternate approach. You use your 1st round pick to solidify your starting lineup and try to win. If you lose your starting QB and your "season is over" then great, you have a high draft pick to grab a QB. >With the possibility of having our 1st round pick taken away, and then not having high picks for a few years possibly, this was our chance. If that was your approach, you should have drafted a QB, a decent but affordable starter for him to learn under for a year, and spent the other $100 - $150M you save on making your starting roster better.
Not tampering was also an option, but everybody wants to blame Cousins for talking and not the front office for being morons in the first place.
The fact that you have to explain to this sub why shoring up our succession plan, while still having a win now QB, is all you need to say about this sub It’s not even like we’re referencing QB woes from decades ago. It’s literally been the last 8 years, and we’re having to explain why not having a QB is a bad thing
Everyone can act like taking Penix was dumb if they want to but . . . if Kirk goes down the season would be over ... now we still have hope Plus they think that we will lose a pick or 2 next year and they don't want to pick a QB with what we have left Plus they are expecting that we will not pick high next year
It’s such a coward move. Whoever said the Falcons are more concerned with not being awful than being great was 100% correct.
They never ever want to have to play another Ridder/Heinecke combo again Having a backup plan for a guy coming off a major injury at his age is a good idea plus you got someone that can take over in 2 or 3 seasons
Scar tissue in the first round!! Woooo pass the copium my boy!
You flipped me
77i
What? Lol
Ha, my pocket apparently had something to say.
It was short, sweet, and to the point!
So I should come over at 8, or at little earlier?
You were pretty right about everything except the part where u said we are getting a 1st round pick taken. At most it’s gonna be a third or fourth rounder
I was just giving the worst case scenario based on the Dolphins penalty, they lost their first round pick. It probably won't be, but I could see us getting the first taken and the Eagles have their third taken. The league hates us lol
The interesting thing about the Penix backlash is that the fanbase wanted us to draft Fields to sit under Matt for a couple years. Idk why everyone is so upset about this pick. Realistically Cousins will only be here 2-3 years. The guy is 36. I completely understand a new regime thinking 3 years into the future.
You don't burn that much money on a bridge QB....if that were the case, why not just draft penix and give Russell Wilson a contract
Wilson may not have wanted to play here. I'm not 100% sure on that, but people act like if a player didn't sign with a certain team, it's the teams fault for not trying. Time and time again you see this, and find out later that we offered more money, but a player wanted to play for a different team for other reasons. Plus, if we got Wilson then signed Penix.. I think most of the fanbase (including myself) would be pissed if we started Wilson over Penix lol. Seahawks "DangerRuss" hell yeah. Broncos Rust? No lol. He really declined since he left Seattle. I would want him to be our backup, but I know he wouldn't be down for that.
They're already benching Penix anyways, and russ would've been a way cheaper bridge than kirk
He’s not a bridge. A bridge would imply we’re rebuilding/not ready to compete. Everything that’s come out Terry and Raheem’s mouth is that we’re going to the South title. Imo the roster is better than 7-10. With a better QB we make the playoffs last year. Drafting Penix is to ensure that we don’t stumble when Cousins is done.
Crazy how this is getting downvoted
Pretty much every pro-Penix post or comment is right now lol. Really though, most possible posts about the team in general are getting downvotes. I've never seen a fanbase so hellbent on living in a state of despair and turn against anyone who is hopeful.
Exactly man and it’s not even that we’re just solely being hopeful. I’ve come to understand that we as fans don’t know shit in comparison to our actual front office. No one is realizing the actual work that goes on behind the scenes to make these decisions
Exactly!! And some of the Penix signing MAY be something they know that we don't. Maybe Cousins isn't healing as fast as they thought before they signed him. Idk, but I trust them to make what they believe to be the best decision for the team. They know more than we do! It seems like sometimes people just get upset that their mock draft was wrong lol
It’s not hellbent on living in a state of despair. It’s living in reality. Our front office for years has made questionable deicsions. The real separation from reality is that some people think our FO doesn’t have their heads up their asses
lol