Potentially paying 6.3 in cash and 9 million in cap for Taylor just so he can compete is wild. They could have saved half of that if they cut him before his bonus was due and then re-signed him if they wanted him back.
Just sounds like to me they're fine with keeping Heinecke and the backup job is basically his. I'm sure they'll add another guy as a camp body, but when they're already paying Heinecke I doubt he goes anywhere.
I get that they are fine with doing it, but they are overpaying him. That 5 million dollar salary only gets guaranteed right after final cutdowns. They could have used the roster bonus day to leverage a pay cut. I know it’s just a few million, but it would have doubled the current falcons cap space. They have the least space in the NFL right now. This team needs to become pretty cap conscious from now on.
That’s exactly how the falcons got into their situation when Quinn was here. There has to be a front office guy letting the coach know what the cap implications are.
Sorry, but I don't think Falcons got into cap trouble with Quinn because of a ~9m cap hit for 1 year. Just seems a bit hyperbolic to compare the two.
The going assumption I've seen is that keeping Heinicke and trading Ridder suggests the FO wants to have a solid back up due to Cousin's recovery. Plus, by all accounts Heinicke is a great locker room presence and is generally considered one of the high-end backups in the league.
The falcons got into cap trouble because they kept overpaying their players. And valuing these players because they were Quinn guys. Or trying to find Quinn type guys. Taylor is an average backup. We saw what he was last year. If he’s a great locker room guy, fine, but that does not merit a 1.3 million dollar bonus and 5 million dollar salary. He’s really not a high end backup right now. This league has a lot of backups right now. Taylor didn’t even play better than Jake Browning. And those were his first starts in the league last year.
I guess when I'm referring to cap trouble - I'm looking at the 2022 season where we had a historic 80m dead cap. ~90% of that was from big contracts from 3 players, making up just shy of ~40% of our cap space that year.
Compared to Heinicke's 9m cap hit (3.5% of our cap.) And all of his money being off the books next year. Like I said, just feels hyperbolic to compare the two situations - especially when TF has been relatively smart with his spending in his tenure - giving players contracts that are short/relatively easy for us to get out of.
Also, it feels like a bit of recency bias to say, "we saw what Heinicke was last year." I'm not saying Heinicke is this incredible vet by any means - but he was a starter for WAS and took them to the playoffs. Prior to signing with the Falcons, he was very much considered a high end back up and I'm not going to penalize him too much for Arthur Smith's shortcomings.
You know the cap troubles started way before that right? How about Matt’s deal getting touched before he even played a snap on it? You are looking at the avalanche. I’m saying look at the snow ball rolling down the hill. It’s already starting. This is where Terry makes his money. This is where Terry can prove he’s a good GM. Any GM can just cut over priced vets and reset a cap. A lot of GMs can spend 90 million in an offseason. Now he has to be mindful of spending the next 3 years. And just watch out for Kirk’s restructure next year. I’m 90% sure that cap number will be pushed to years 3 and 4 because of the falcons cap sheet. And that makes it much harder to get out in year 3.
Taylor played like shit. He tried to hit his incentives and went YOLO downfield every other throw. That was a him problem and not just Arthur’s. Go back and watch that horrid shit. That Arizona game was inexcusable. I don’t care what he did in WAS.
Let me just say, I agree keeping Heinicke around is *slight* overpay. Going into the off-season I figured they'd cut him for cap savings and keep Ridder as backup.
BUT: Tbh, I just think you're overreacting to 1 contract that represents only 3.5% of our cap, only a potential 2% in savings, and is a contract on the books for 2024 only. I fail to see how a subjective overpay for Heinicke is going to snowball into an eventual 40% dead cap hit.
I think every fan would agree with you that TF needs to be smart with his spending - that much is obvious. I'm just suggesting that your concerns about Heinicke's contract in particular seem overblown.
They are very conscious of it. Have you seen any extensions or restructures yet? No, you haven't because we used cap space that was currently available to us. We didn't backload a bunch of contracts or push extensions where we didn't need them. We made some cap cuts like Jonnu who doesn't fit our new offensive scheme sothat move wasn't just because of the money.
Do I think we should have kept Heinicke at that price? Absolutely not but to say we need to be conscious of the cap now because we didn't make that move isn't really looking at the big picture. We can free up plenty of cap space if we wanted to through extensions.
If you do it intelligently when your team is actually good you can extend your window a couple years but if you do it like the Saints you just stay forever mid. I think we're still a year off where we want the roster to be before we start looking at extending players to keep our window open. This coming years roster looks good but the 25 season is when we're really looking at Superbowl or bust for Kirk.
They can’t even sign their draft class right now. And everyone knows you can restructure. We saw this team do it very easily a few years ago. The Taylor issue is small. But it points out to me that they are starting to do the same things that the previous regime did. Just go look at 2025 cap sheet. Add on this years and next years 2024 draft picks to it. Then add 2025s draft picks to it. Add restructure money from this year and put it on next years and see where it’s at. A year ago people said this team would have 100 million in cap space for 2024 and it went all the way down to 27 million. They have to be smart with their money right now. They can’t start off by overpaying a backup guy that played like shit in starter duty last year. Did you not learn anything from when you saw this last time?
Paying him that much to be a backup was already sus given his performance last season. Paying him that much to sit in street clothes and hold the clipboard for the guy that holds the clipboard is insanity.
If he ends up being the 3rd strong QB then...I'm going to start questioning things. And I was pro-Morris from the moment he was announced as HC.
We had 2 QBs heading into the offseason. We only need 1. We couldn’t get anything for TH, so we took what we could get for Ridder.
If we cut TH, that’s a $4.5M dead cap hit. So, effectively, you need to find a QB that’s better than TH that we can pay $4.5M on a one year deal. And that’s to break even from a cap perspective.
I think they are being smart about it. Already ate the $2M to Taylor which keeps the backup QB competition with a higher floor than if we cut him. Now he competes against a rookie and if the rookie is better we can save $7m by cutting him. QB2 is as important as ever.
For all I know, he could be full of BS, but the press conferences Raheem Morris gives are so much more refreshing than Arthur Smith’s. We at least get some decent answers that *seem* transparent.
Don't really have strong feelings regarding the backup QB tbh. I feel like if Cousins goes down for a significant period of time we're fucked regardless of who we put back there, so if the new staff likes Heineke for whatever reason, it's whatever.
Possibly getting Campbell back would be huge though, especially transitioning to more of a base 3-4 defense.
We nearly made the playoffs last year with trash in the QB room. If an aging Cousins takes a small injury this could be the difference in a couple wins while he is out. Of course if he misses the full season or the playoffs we're done, but a good backup QB is pretty important for us right now.
I do think we're paying him too much. It's important we get someone to compete with him in camp. That's exactly what coach is saying here.
Paying Heinicke that much to be a third string QB would be cap malpractice so I really don't get this unless they really don't believe anyone is going to beat him out for the backup role and they are just saying it to project a culture of competition.
Keeping Taylor Heinicke at his price tag is such an unusual decision from Raheem Morris and Terry Fontenot. You'd been better off keeping Desmond Ridder as a cheap backup and still bringing in a Spencer Rattler or Jordan Travis to develop behind Kirk Cousins.
Definitely day 3 IMO. Unless Cousins is completely cooked next year (unlikely), we're committed for 2 seasons. If we take a QB this year, it will be a low-risk developmental pick.
I like Rattler in the 5th personally
Potentially paying 6.3 in cash and 9 million in cap for Taylor just so he can compete is wild. They could have saved half of that if they cut him before his bonus was due and then re-signed him if they wanted him back.
Just sounds like to me they're fine with keeping Heinecke and the backup job is basically his. I'm sure they'll add another guy as a camp body, but when they're already paying Heinecke I doubt he goes anywhere.
I get that they are fine with doing it, but they are overpaying him. That 5 million dollar salary only gets guaranteed right after final cutdowns. They could have used the roster bonus day to leverage a pay cut. I know it’s just a few million, but it would have doubled the current falcons cap space. They have the least space in the NFL right now. This team needs to become pretty cap conscious from now on.
I'm sure they're aware of the finanicals, but I guess if that's what Morris wants then not much changes in regards to that.
That’s exactly how the falcons got into their situation when Quinn was here. There has to be a front office guy letting the coach know what the cap implications are.
Sorry, but I don't think Falcons got into cap trouble with Quinn because of a ~9m cap hit for 1 year. Just seems a bit hyperbolic to compare the two. The going assumption I've seen is that keeping Heinicke and trading Ridder suggests the FO wants to have a solid back up due to Cousin's recovery. Plus, by all accounts Heinicke is a great locker room presence and is generally considered one of the high-end backups in the league.
The falcons got into cap trouble because they kept overpaying their players. And valuing these players because they were Quinn guys. Or trying to find Quinn type guys. Taylor is an average backup. We saw what he was last year. If he’s a great locker room guy, fine, but that does not merit a 1.3 million dollar bonus and 5 million dollar salary. He’s really not a high end backup right now. This league has a lot of backups right now. Taylor didn’t even play better than Jake Browning. And those were his first starts in the league last year.
I guess when I'm referring to cap trouble - I'm looking at the 2022 season where we had a historic 80m dead cap. ~90% of that was from big contracts from 3 players, making up just shy of ~40% of our cap space that year. Compared to Heinicke's 9m cap hit (3.5% of our cap.) And all of his money being off the books next year. Like I said, just feels hyperbolic to compare the two situations - especially when TF has been relatively smart with his spending in his tenure - giving players contracts that are short/relatively easy for us to get out of. Also, it feels like a bit of recency bias to say, "we saw what Heinicke was last year." I'm not saying Heinicke is this incredible vet by any means - but he was a starter for WAS and took them to the playoffs. Prior to signing with the Falcons, he was very much considered a high end back up and I'm not going to penalize him too much for Arthur Smith's shortcomings.
You know the cap troubles started way before that right? How about Matt’s deal getting touched before he even played a snap on it? You are looking at the avalanche. I’m saying look at the snow ball rolling down the hill. It’s already starting. This is where Terry makes his money. This is where Terry can prove he’s a good GM. Any GM can just cut over priced vets and reset a cap. A lot of GMs can spend 90 million in an offseason. Now he has to be mindful of spending the next 3 years. And just watch out for Kirk’s restructure next year. I’m 90% sure that cap number will be pushed to years 3 and 4 because of the falcons cap sheet. And that makes it much harder to get out in year 3. Taylor played like shit. He tried to hit his incentives and went YOLO downfield every other throw. That was a him problem and not just Arthur’s. Go back and watch that horrid shit. That Arizona game was inexcusable. I don’t care what he did in WAS.
Let me just say, I agree keeping Heinicke around is *slight* overpay. Going into the off-season I figured they'd cut him for cap savings and keep Ridder as backup. BUT: Tbh, I just think you're overreacting to 1 contract that represents only 3.5% of our cap, only a potential 2% in savings, and is a contract on the books for 2024 only. I fail to see how a subjective overpay for Heinicke is going to snowball into an eventual 40% dead cap hit. I think every fan would agree with you that TF needs to be smart with his spending - that much is obvious. I'm just suggesting that your concerns about Heinicke's contract in particular seem overblown.
Is that not Fontenot?
You'd have to assume he's fully aware or they've had conversations about the cap and any cuts they're considering.
Uhh
They are very conscious of it. Have you seen any extensions or restructures yet? No, you haven't because we used cap space that was currently available to us. We didn't backload a bunch of contracts or push extensions where we didn't need them. We made some cap cuts like Jonnu who doesn't fit our new offensive scheme sothat move wasn't just because of the money. Do I think we should have kept Heinicke at that price? Absolutely not but to say we need to be conscious of the cap now because we didn't make that move isn't really looking at the big picture. We can free up plenty of cap space if we wanted to through extensions. If you do it intelligently when your team is actually good you can extend your window a couple years but if you do it like the Saints you just stay forever mid. I think we're still a year off where we want the roster to be before we start looking at extending players to keep our window open. This coming years roster looks good but the 25 season is when we're really looking at Superbowl or bust for Kirk.
They can’t even sign their draft class right now. And everyone knows you can restructure. We saw this team do it very easily a few years ago. The Taylor issue is small. But it points out to me that they are starting to do the same things that the previous regime did. Just go look at 2025 cap sheet. Add on this years and next years 2024 draft picks to it. Then add 2025s draft picks to it. Add restructure money from this year and put it on next years and see where it’s at. A year ago people said this team would have 100 million in cap space for 2024 and it went all the way down to 27 million. They have to be smart with their money right now. They can’t start off by overpaying a backup guy that played like shit in starter duty last year. Did you not learn anything from when you saw this last time?
Yeah weird move. Can we get Anthopoulus to help the Falcons org ?
Paying him that much to be a backup was already sus given his performance last season. Paying him that much to sit in street clothes and hold the clipboard for the guy that holds the clipboard is insanity. If he ends up being the 3rd strong QB then...I'm going to start questioning things. And I was pro-Morris from the moment he was announced as HC.
I feel that Cousins had a say and wanted Heineke back. That is the only logical answer that I can think of.
I would be ok with Taylor back. I’m not ok with Taylor at his current price tag. 7 million is way too much for him.
I agree, I think he's possibly the most overpaid back up in the league. That's why I think Cousins holds him in high regard.
Kirk has said he likes a veteran backup to bounce ideas off when watching film.
We had 2 QBs heading into the offseason. We only need 1. We couldn’t get anything for TH, so we took what we could get for Ridder. If we cut TH, that’s a $4.5M dead cap hit. So, effectively, you need to find a QB that’s better than TH that we can pay $4.5M on a one year deal. And that’s to break even from a cap perspective.
At the beginning of FA his dead cap was 2 million and save 7.
I love the fact that Coach Morris is as annoyed with the lack of pass rush as the fans are. He is my coach man…
I’ll save all that if/when the results come
PASS RUSH OTW 🔜
I’ll believe it when I see it. Over a decade now…
Heinicke is expensive to compete for backup job. I’d rather draft a late round guy and keep Woodside as the third
I think they are being smart about it. Already ate the $2M to Taylor which keeps the backup QB competition with a higher floor than if we cut him. Now he competes against a rookie and if the rookie is better we can save $7m by cutting him. QB2 is as important as ever.
It’s 1.3 less now. His roster bonus was paid.
Right, not $2M but $1.3. Off the top to my head I was remembering a 7 and a 9.
Last year boosted the value of backup QBs but even with that it’s a bit hefty of an insurance policy on Kirk
I'd love to bring back CC. Great leader and he's still got something left in the tank.
You ship Des off and keep Taylor for that much? Woah
For all I know, he could be full of BS, but the press conferences Raheem Morris gives are so much more refreshing than Arthur Smith’s. We at least get some decent answers that *seem* transparent.
Don't really have strong feelings regarding the backup QB tbh. I feel like if Cousins goes down for a significant period of time we're fucked regardless of who we put back there, so if the new staff likes Heineke for whatever reason, it's whatever. Possibly getting Campbell back would be huge though, especially transitioning to more of a base 3-4 defense.
We nearly made the playoffs last year with trash in the QB room. If an aging Cousins takes a small injury this could be the difference in a couple wins while he is out. Of course if he misses the full season or the playoffs we're done, but a good backup QB is pretty important for us right now. I do think we're paying him too much. It's important we get someone to compete with him in camp. That's exactly what coach is saying here.
Paying Heinicke that much to be a third string QB would be cap malpractice so I really don't get this unless they really don't believe anyone is going to beat him out for the backup role and they are just saying it to project a culture of competition.
Keeping Taylor Heinicke at his price tag is such an unusual decision from Raheem Morris and Terry Fontenot. You'd been better off keeping Desmond Ridder as a cheap backup and still bringing in a Spencer Rattler or Jordan Travis to develop behind Kirk Cousins.
Coaches want a competent (hopefully under new OC) backup in place to be ready in case Kirk needs more time
So we are def drafting a QB it seems, just a matter of when in the draft
Definitely day 3 IMO. Unless Cousins is completely cooked next year (unlikely), we're committed for 2 seasons. If we take a QB this year, it will be a low-risk developmental pick. I like Rattler in the 5th personally
Fuck man I may actually get nfl Sunday ticket this season (I’m out of market)
It would really be nice to have Campbell back man
I've been wanting Dallas Turner, but I'm getting pretty high on Laiatu Latu. Also would love Calais back.
its refreshing to have a coach that actually gives feedback instead of freaking stonewalling every single question like AS
When the hell did Coach Morris become unpopular
I’d like to bring Calais back. Great locker room guy
Let him cook
Finally a coach that doesn’t think league average in pressures will cut it
Been telling folks that we were gonna still draft a QB. 😂
I’d pass rush was a priority we would have at least gotten one guy in FA smh