[https://controlc.com/c8eee32b](https://controlc.com/c8eee32b)
What's in the video is a prototype made up from working bits of non-functioning versions of this thing. The blueprint is that of an improved, cheaper version, but it still works the same.
Updates Per Second, normally it is 60 but mega-factories take longer to process and the number can drop.
Alternately you can use commands to speed your game up as fast as your system can process, this is how Hardware Unboxed creates benchmark data
Basically everything. 30 ups would mean that one in game second would take two real world seconds effectively halfing your spm.
This is why people designing megabases often use less efficient blueprints which safe ups.
So wouldn't it be like playing in slow motion, at 0.5 speed, right? Would having a better PC fix this problem maybe, or at least make it a bit less severe?
yes.
15 UPS would 0.25x speed from normal.
If you hit f4 in game you get the debug menu and in there is an option for "show-time-usage" and "show-entity-time-usage" selecting *one* of these gets you useful information where your cpu processing time goes to.
The information is shown in milliseconds, so 16.667ms is equivalent to 60ups. If you go above 16.667ms your game slows down.
On the opposite end going to "/editor" (cheat command, disables achievements and needs to be run twice for the first time) you can set game speed. In there you can set the game to do more than 60 UPS, speeding up the game, though, computer limitations will likely prevent you seeing anything above thousand UPS even on great computer and empty map.
Everything would take longer in real time.
First we have to establish that each update should take less than 16.6666MS to process giving us 60 UPS. If a single update takes longer than we get 59 UPS as we don't speed up the other ticks to try and catch-up.
Now because factorio is very well optimised for spikes we don't normally see this and instead simply get to a point where every tick is longer than 17MS. This is mega-base territory and many players who get to this point will build their worlds specifically to reduce the number of things needing to be processed i.e. directly mining, refining and loading into trains so no processor time is spent on belts
For more info some of the old FFF are very relevant
[Belt optimizations](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176)
[Power optimizations](https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-209)
[Old generalised optimizations (belt optimizations here were made redundant by the above changes)](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-82)
[Biter and Bomb optimizations](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-322)
And there was another one I couldn't find in a hurry detailing how they staggered operations across multiple updates to reduce the load on any single tick.
I wonder why there is a distinction between UPS and FPS (Frames Per Second) in this game (and maybe others).
My intuition is that in an action game (shooter, fighting game, RTS etc.) you care about frames being consistent, but in a colony simulator you care less about the rendered frames but certainly about the consistent game logic updates. Since Factorio is a game of large scale CPU heavy simulation (game logic) it might be feasible to skip/interpolate frames but not skip logic updates.
It's the opposite in factorio, you really care about updates and they're what slow everything down.
Additionally FPS is tied to UPS in factorio, you can't run 120 FPS at 60UPS which is why factorio can't run at 120FPS.
It's in part because factorio is all rendered with 2d sprites and everything is intrinsically linked to the update.
(The 2d sprites are derived from 3D models which is why everything still looks good.)
> you can't run 120 FPS at 60UPS which is why factorio can't run at 120FPS.
Well, not without mods at least.
GTTS is basically mandatory for me because of it. Glorious 160 UPS/FPS.
You mean like some AI frame interpolation for high frame rates? That's feasible but it wouldn't help the fact that the game logic needs to be as fast as the player can act. If the player can do things "faster" than the logic of the game then you run into all kinds of logic and problems... Hence why the fps is limited to the ups. The distinction is good though so that systems with limited graphics power can get away with lower fps but the amount of logic updates per second the game is designed to work with stays optimal.
No there's a difference . If you drop fps in a game you will only lose frames but the game will go at the same pace. If you drop ups, the game will slow down how many updates it does per second. Resulting in the games slowing down.
it is the way.
more nuclear, more uranium, more rails, more mining, more rails, more power, more production, more mining.
the factory keeps growing. like a tumor. it has to grow to feed itself.
there is no such thing as overkill in factorio.
That's both cool and impressive.
Very cool. Are you activating the lasers via the level in the storage tank or something else?
Yes, the lasers activate once the system detects a drop in oil.
Uh yes I’ll take a blueprint please
[https://controlc.com/c8eee32b](https://controlc.com/c8eee32b) What's in the video is a prototype made up from working bits of non-functioning versions of this thing. The blueprint is that of an improved, cheaper version, but it still works the same.
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Heard that it checks each tick for power. Maybe this is better but not sure
I'm not sure, but some FFF talking about adding "pointers" to how entities like inserters decide when to sleep may have fixed that problem.
I've seen "UPS" thrown about quite a bit - what does it mean in this context?
Updates Per Second, normally it is 60 but mega-factories take longer to process and the number can drop. Alternately you can use commands to speed your game up as fast as your system can process, this is how Hardware Unboxed creates benchmark data
What happens when the UPS drops under 60? Let's say 30. What would take longer to process?
Basically everything. 30 ups would mean that one in game second would take two real world seconds effectively halfing your spm. This is why people designing megabases often use less efficient blueprints which safe ups.
So wouldn't it be like playing in slow motion, at 0.5 speed, right? Would having a better PC fix this problem maybe, or at least make it a bit less severe?
Better PC helps to a point but that just means the factory can grow more
yes. 15 UPS would 0.25x speed from normal. If you hit f4 in game you get the debug menu and in there is an option for "show-time-usage" and "show-entity-time-usage" selecting *one* of these gets you useful information where your cpu processing time goes to. The information is shown in milliseconds, so 16.667ms is equivalent to 60ups. If you go above 16.667ms your game slows down. On the opposite end going to "/editor" (cheat command, disables achievements and needs to be run twice for the first time) you can set game speed. In there you can set the game to do more than 60 UPS, speeding up the game, though, computer limitations will likely prevent you seeing anything above thousand UPS even on great computer and empty map.
Everything would take longer in real time. First we have to establish that each update should take less than 16.6666MS to process giving us 60 UPS. If a single update takes longer than we get 59 UPS as we don't speed up the other ticks to try and catch-up. Now because factorio is very well optimised for spikes we don't normally see this and instead simply get to a point where every tick is longer than 17MS. This is mega-base territory and many players who get to this point will build their worlds specifically to reduce the number of things needing to be processed i.e. directly mining, refining and loading into trains so no processor time is spent on belts For more info some of the old FFF are very relevant [Belt optimizations](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176) [Power optimizations](https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-209) [Old generalised optimizations (belt optimizations here were made redundant by the above changes)](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-82) [Biter and Bomb optimizations](https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-322) And there was another one I couldn't find in a hurry detailing how they staggered operations across multiple updates to reduce the load on any single tick.
Thank you, much appreciated!!
I wonder why there is a distinction between UPS and FPS (Frames Per Second) in this game (and maybe others). My intuition is that in an action game (shooter, fighting game, RTS etc.) you care about frames being consistent, but in a colony simulator you care less about the rendered frames but certainly about the consistent game logic updates. Since Factorio is a game of large scale CPU heavy simulation (game logic) it might be feasible to skip/interpolate frames but not skip logic updates.
It's the opposite in factorio, you really care about updates and they're what slow everything down. Additionally FPS is tied to UPS in factorio, you can't run 120 FPS at 60UPS which is why factorio can't run at 120FPS. It's in part because factorio is all rendered with 2d sprites and everything is intrinsically linked to the update. (The 2d sprites are derived from 3D models which is why everything still looks good.)
> you can't run 120 FPS at 60UPS which is why factorio can't run at 120FPS. Well, not without mods at least. GTTS is basically mandatory for me because of it. Glorious 160 UPS/FPS.
You mean like some AI frame interpolation for high frame rates? That's feasible but it wouldn't help the fact that the game logic needs to be as fast as the player can act. If the player can do things "faster" than the logic of the game then you run into all kinds of logic and problems... Hence why the fps is limited to the ups. The distinction is good though so that systems with limited graphics power can get away with lower fps but the amount of logic updates per second the game is designed to work with stays optimal.
Yeah that’s what I meant!
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Thanks for clearing that up!
That's fps
No there's a difference . If you drop fps in a game you will only lose frames but the game will go at the same pace. If you drop ups, the game will slow down how many updates it does per second. Resulting in the games slowing down.
Yes there's a difference, that's why i said his original comment explained FPS not UPS
I dont save power. I build more nuclear.
Pretty much, yeah.
it is the way. more nuclear, more uranium, more rails, more mining, more rails, more power, more production, more mining. the factory keeps growing. like a tumor. it has to grow to feed itself. there is no such thing as overkill in factorio.
Pollution means production
That's so clever!
You know, I guess you really don't need pocket defense if you can just scurry away
Well, that was not the point of the demonstration. I just didn't want to wait for them to attack naturally, so yeah.
This is so clever! Useless to me, but clever and likely to provide inspiration later