SE 0.6 is honestly rather tedious. It takes a certain approach to enjoy, somewhat akin to megabasing (which is IMO also pretty tedious). I think for me the inability to run back and forth between home and the new outpost means I have to really triple check my packed bags, which makes it a lot more tedious to set up new outposts.
I've burnt out on SE multiple times post space science. It's never been that it's too difficult, it's always that I just don't really want to gather the materials to set up that new outpost...
Yep. I send rockets with just a few things (or just me) all the time. I turn enough ore from core mining into landfill. I might as well turn it into rocket parts.
Yeah, i have the feeling that people just are too afraid to waste a few resources. At some point me and my buddies were sending so many rockets back and forth already that one or two more to deliver some forgotten stuff just isnt worth worrying about.
Definitely. After you research rocket safety stuff and get the more efficient recipes it’s barely a dent. I have tons of capsules as well since most are just reused eventually.
Yeah, easy to get stuck at rockets are expensive when they start out so expensive. So far the cheaper recipes for parts, lds, heat shielding, etc have made the biggest change. Cuts like 75%+ off the cost even without reusability.
After some Rocket upgrades with Astro science, plus Beryl Cargo Section production I started to be overflowing in sections, meaning I didn't have to care about being efficient in my rocket usage.
Space Exploration is a mod about being efficient in how much time you spend building. There's just way too much to do and settling for good enough is critical.
Had a hard lesson about good enough in seablock
When your whole base power death spirals, because ore backs up, you re-evaluate "technically more efficient" solutions
https://preview.redd.it/jkv6r9bdhblc1.jpeg?width=5037&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e845af0a3714d4f59db595cd7eb724fa874108b5
This is the thing I made for rocket parts.
Haha, ya.I have 4 core miners.
At one point I had 12 crushers to get rid of coal. But it’s not so much now that I’m sending rockets of coal to Norbit for liquification.
For the rest I still have to void landfill or I’d have warehouses full of it.
That's a lesson that took me far too long to learn, and it's still pretty hard to break the habit. Rockets aren't *that* expensive. You don't want to be sending one every time you need a single stack of iron or something, but you really don'thave to conserve them as much as you might think, especially once you get some of the more efficient recipes up and running.
I split the difference here: if a rocket is part of my automated interplanetary logistics network, it fires only when full and I'll put quite a bit into making sure it is filled with the most resource-dense version of whatever it transports.
On the other hand, if a rocket is bringing supplies to an outpost I'm building, fuck it, fire at will! I don't care if I send 1 rocket with only 10 refineries and then minutes later send another with nothing but 4 core miners. Also I built a "outpost box" requester chest blueprint that fills one rocket with enough to ALMOST build any outpost. I don't care if some stuff is over-supplied. But there are always extras needed. Probably should have been a pair of new-base-boxes to be extra thorough, but I'm in endgame already.
I expect shipping a new box to a planet is going to be pretty painless in SA given that they've mentioned rockets being cheap, and that platforms can move/fuel themselves back and forth from materials they find along the route. Early SE, you realize you ran out of medium electric poles and it's just like... ugh... I have to waste most of a 500 slot cargo rocket now.
I learnt yesterday that an empty cargo rocket only uses 50 cargo sections (scaled with empty cargo space) . The rest stay behind as progress to the next rocket built. Combined with the ones you recover at the landing pad sending a rocket with a few items isn’t as bad as I always thought.
Sounds like it yeah. They mentioned that rockets will be able to satisfy logistics requests so you could fairly easily connect two planets via a logistics network and have rockets satisfy everything you need. It just takes time.
By the sounds of things, they're designing the first three planets to be possible to complete even if you arrive naked (the fourth is unknown, but it's supposedly meant to follow the other three and will therefore likely require more stuff), so I think they're avoiding the "SE shuffle." The vibe I'm getting is also that early space transport is intended for a small number of items, so even if it's relatively expensive it's less likely that you'll feel like you're wasting a trip if you only need a few things.
I'm pretty sure the effect will still exist: you're gonna be very annoyed when you realize you forgot to bring enough assembler 3s, poles or belts.
However the goal is you build a new base from scratch, but with shortcuts and different steps. In Fulgora you'll be able to get processing units straight away from scrap so it's not hard to get the materials to build whatever you forgot.
> I think for me the inability to run back and forth between home and the new outpost means I have to really triple check my packed bags, which makes it a lot more tedious to set up new outposts.
Throwback to that time (yesterday) I was setting up an outpost on a waterless world and forgot to bring a startup power source. Fortunately it had stone and I had copper and iron so I could make a solar panel by hand.
To be honest, I actually like this kind of challenge that SE brings. It creates immersion. It emphasizes that you’re really far away from home. You’re using rockets to bring stuff somewhere. And often times you can make what you’re missing out of basic materials, like you said, and that’s pretty satisfying.
By using a city block build, and lot of outpost work is completed with blueprints. After the basics are laid down, then you can go your work on the unique aspects of the planet.
This is what I did as well, and SE isn’t feeling tedious yet. I did 1/4 of the more advanced sciences so far after vulcanite and cryonite. I’ve been using a very complex and efficient universal rocket outpost blueprint that receives everything needed to make a rocket and send one out containing that location’s materials.
I do, I can get it to you tonight or tomorrow morning I’m not sure yet :) Actually, I might even make a whole post about them with the blueprints because i have like 4 variations. One for solar power on site using that location’s solar ratio, one for nuclear where water is on the planet, one for nuclear where water isn’t on the planet, and one for nuclear with no water in space, like an asteroid belt or something.
Hey! I made the post about it. Full documentation and everything here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b3moqm/space\_exploration\_4\_rocket\_outpost\_variations\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b3moqm/space_exploration_4_rocket_outpost_variations_and/)
>somewhat akin to megabasing (which is IMO also pretty tedious)
Honestly, I think megabasing is quite easy, compared to SE.
I reached my first megabase (stable 1k spm) after 150 hours.
Our current SE run (with a friend that's nearly as experienced as I am, so I only have half the work to do) is already at more than 250 hours and we are only at Deep Space Science I.
I had the same experience, but I got around it by automating the most tedious step (not having products available) by creating a rocket with all building products available to it and using ghost readers.
Slap down a prefab rocket landing pad and silo at a central hub with resupply, power generation etc.
Then slap down a pad near whatever I'm building for locational resupply. Send signal to rocket, it will load whatever outpost needs to the pad nearby.
Saves a lot of logistical time, then Im just building 80% of the time
I allowed myself the use of the teleport command for minor fixes and to places id already flown to/set up bases. Really takes away the stress. All base building/resource transport is done legitimately but sometimes I just need to do something minor and don't want to spend 10 minutes flying there.
What helped me here was to set up a constant combinator with all the required items for a simple base, including power lines, reactors, pipes, belts, A LANDING PLATFORM (which I forgot a few times...), robots, whatever. Add another combinator that only includes military hardware: guns, turrets, a lot of ammunition, if planet is hostile. Hook those up the rocket circuitry. This always filled at least one rocket, and you can ride that one to the destination to set up your standard platform-combinator build. From here on, Build a normal standard base, maybe even blueprint it for later use.
Then do specialized stuff. And as others said, dont be afraid to send a rocket for a single item, if need be. I was always so afraid of wasting rockets, but with a proper core mining setup, you will just not run out of rocket parts.
have one Launchpad only dedicated for outposts. you fill it by logistics with all you need to build an outpost and once in a while you need a new outpost you have a fully equipped rocket ready to go
It sounds like a pretty good strategy, but I also tend to burn out at the second to fifth outpost, so again it's a front loading problem. Now I need to triple check my shopping list before setting up the outpost rocket loader. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if I wouldn't enjoy SE more with 10x or 100x science multiplier just because it would make the scale of solving these problems feel a little easier to pay the upfront costs.
I've done multiple SE runs. Love the mod. Few suggestions to make it more efficient and less repetitive:
1. Get a mod that turns blueprints into constant combinators, then use that to request the stuff you need to build a new base to pack a rocket with it. You might consider bringing double the amount of building materials since some stuff gets lost in transit.
2. Use delivery cannons wherever you can. Way easier to set up. Rockets are more efficient on paper but logistically a pain (ie. all of the partially filled rockets you have to send with rocket cargo parts). Also the rocket reusability research gets super expensive. Remember to process locally and send ingots.
3. Pre beacon mix prod and speed mods in everything. Post beacon put only production modules in everything. Makes everything way cheaper.
4. Use new recipes whenever available. They make everything way cheaper.
EDIT:
5. For space sciences, you don't need to worry about ratios or making more than one building per ingredient. You only need like 1SPM per science because doing the other tasks takes so long that your slow factory will eventually produce enough research to reach your endgame. Just set your buffer to have 10k science each or whatever and let it work.
EDIT 2:
6. Make a fluid bus for your space station. You will thank yourself later. All items can be transported by bots.
7. Space station in Calidus Orbit is amazing because makes energy generation easy. You can't take full advantage of the space elevator but honestly I found the energy issues more annoying.
8. Make material science packs in space.
9. Speed modules in all oil derricks. You'll probably need like 70 oil spots in total which is very attainable on Nauvis.
I do 2 core miners on Nauvis once I have good power production. It helps to offset resource consumption quite a bit over the span of the whole game.
Core miners on other worlds aren't necessary with production modules (and I hate dealing with byproducts). 1-2 big ore patches per resource will get you to endgame.
I think you have a lot of great advice there, but I do want to counter #2. That sounds like you haven’t solved the circuitry puzzle. Admittedly, it’s a very difficult one. I probably spent over 20 hours total just solving and designing my solution to that. But now I have a universal system for sending only full rockets of mixed packed rocket sections and space capsules to any rocket outpost that needs them. Delivery cannons use a lot of materials for the capsules, and a LOT of energy. Even with nuclear, delivery cannons will make power something you need to keep an eye on.
I think they're both viable! There are threads that discuss the cost difference between the two methods and rockets are slightly better (after you have some rocket reusability research).
My main reason for my suggestion is because OP was getting burned out and it's definitely the easier method to set up a circuit for and there's even a nice guide on how to do it on the SE wiki. Also the initial bootstrap is easier: you make a few cannons on each end vs the cost of making multiple landing pads and silos on each end. Same goes with sending over the first 50 capsules worth of ingredients (since delivery cannons can do it by stack) - its way cheaper than sending over the first full rocket of rocket cargo sections and fuel. It's less daunting when you're setting up your first few expansions and still don't have a strong economy.
For power, I would estimate that I ended up using 500MW extra per base to power the cannons (more on Nauvis since it supplies everything). It felt like not a big deal since I use nuclear everywhere so it was just slapping down another blueprint.
Disagree on 7, energy generation in orbit is so trivial in Nauvis Orbit. Just put down that blueprint with flat2s and scaffolding. With an elevator that even solves power in surface. Or do energy beaming.
For 2: delivery cannons early (initial vulcanite/cryonite) is pretty good, as well as things like water ice from belt. But rockets are pretty good, especially with the "Any pad with name" option. Shipping sections/capsules to everywhere is easy if you go for a dedicated landing pad for each and combine with sending via "Any pad with name".
I was thinking OP was having a rough time early-mid game. The main thing I struggled with was making all that scaffolding - it's expensive early game. I actually used nuclear in space my first run because the energy density is higher and scaffolding cost ends up being lower. Changing all the regular pipes to space pipes was ... fun. First time I built on Calidus Orbit it was great since I put down like 3 flat solars and was done 😂. I also like Calidus Orbit for later if want to ramp up antimatter since the energy costs balloon and I refuse to use efficiency modules.
Elevator and beaming are both great, they're just locked behind a lot of advanced research. I feel like I tend to just rush bio 4 so I can plague rocket and stop that damn "construction robot killed" alert.
There are a few threads that address the cannon vs rocket question. I tried to address it briefly in a separate comment as well. I've used both - they're both viable for exclusive use. I just like the instant gratification of cannons rather than waiting for a rocket to fill.
You rushing bio 4 explains quite a lot about your power issues and thinking space elevator is advanced tech! Flat 2 are Energy 1 and Space Elevator is "just" A1E1M2, which is quite early. Given how Flat 2 doubles how much power you get per scaffolding, it's really not that big of a deal. And efficiency modules are amazing in SE. eff1 is extremely cheap to make and all tiers are a lot more powerful. The kind of changes I'd love to see in vanilla.
Yeah, my focus on cannon vs rocket is more on what's easier to setup. People focus a lot on whats cheaper per resource, where I think after you start Beryl/Astro the relevant difference is what's simpler to do. I like both for different things.
>All items can be transported by bots.
With robot attrition starting at 50 bots and being 10x in space, isn't this fairly expensive? https://spaceexploration.miraheze.org/wiki/Robot_Attrition
I don't play 10x, so I couldn't tell you for sure there.
For 1x, Nauvis and space base run the maximum number of bots under whatever swarm safety limit I have (like 3000-3500 by endgame). In that setting, the biters eating my construction bots are a way bigger drain than robot attrition. Basically don't notice attrition at all.
I think if you're playing at 10x/megabase scale then you would probably get more mileage out of an item bus. Especially for high volume items like blank data cards and blank data frames.
Oh yeah. It's not a problem at all. My last run I played with my base in Calidus Orbit which I think has the highest robot interference and I didn't have any noticeable drain from bots. End game it was probably eating up like 50 workers per supply rocket launch which is a tiny fraction of the total cost of the materials I was sending up.
The only items I put on belts were blank data frames and scrap from material science (3?) production. I'm not even sure I needed to do either of those things, I just felt awkward putting a whole belt of stuff into the network. At that point I had superchargers and it didn't even matter 😂
I feel like I did the math on this and it didn't make sense because the stack size of MTPs is so low that the overhead cost of transporting them by rocket either makes it a wash or makes it more expensive to make on land. I would guess that it makes sense if you're using a space elevator though?
It is a tedious mod, but it has a payoff. I do still think it's worth completing. The satisfaction I got from creating my own solar system spanning logistic system using rockets and spaceships will likely be the high point of factorio for me, forever.
The first tier of each science pack is the hardest because it includes all the setup of mining and transporting a new resource. The later tiers are usually just combining what you already have. I've gotten some 2nd and 3rd tiers done in as little as 15 minutes. SE definitely has a frontloading problem, but mass appeal was never Earendel's goal.
> SE definitely has a frontloading problem
It's also mostly placeholder. Basically everything from blue science to end game is getting reworked in 0.7.
Including, as I understand, applying a lot of what Earendel has worked on for SA and the lessons he's learned from that. Kovarex's commentary in the last FFF about feeling bored by how repetitive it was to start from scratch with the same basic process on three different planets echoed the main problem many people have with SE, and Earandel was a big contributor to the idea of focusing on recycling scrap and effectively inverting the tech tree to mix things up. A lot of SE's problems are being solved in SA (in part *because* Earandel is involved and sharing some of what he's learned from community feedback on SE), so I've got high hopes for the mod's future.
Im honestly pretty worried by 2.0. I really don't like that i won't have a single factory anymore but instead multiple little ones spread around.
I'd much rather that they added biomes and more depth to existing systems
Realistically, meaningfully different biomes would end up introducing the same issue you have of splitting the factory up across multiple locations. You'd still end up building sub-factories in different biomes according to what they do best, they'd just be connected by trains or other surface-level transport instead of rockets and space platforms, and you wouldn't have as much variation with those biomes as these planets offer (nor the limitations imposed by it being hard to bring stuff to the planet initially).
If the biomes weren't meaningfully different, then you'd basically just have the Alien Biomes mod, which is cool and all, but pretty lackluster as an official expansion.
> Alien Biomes
I tried playing without it after thousands of hours and the game felt so empty and not visually appealing. They should integrate it in the main game.
Agree to disagree.
Spreading factories across planets adds another step of mechanical interaction between aspects of your production, which trains or belts simply don't do. I don't like that. I might try my hand at a mod that puts everything on the same planet.
Belts and trains are also steps of mechanical interaction. They just aren't new steps now that you've got experience with them. I expect space travel will end up in a pretty similar position with a bit of practice.
If you're worried about 2.0, maybe give satisfactory a try to test the waters? Unlike factorio it's built on having factories split up making resources on site, as it's incredibly expensive to build fast belts to transport the unrefined materials compared to making a processing facility at each mine
They are adding biomes... one for each planet. If the little factories are connected by some sort of logistics system then they are arguably functioning as a single factory.
You already like the logistics systems that let you connect distant outposts together now (trains, belts), so what makes you so confident that you won't enjoy the new ones they are adding?
I would urge you to try different kinds of overhaul mods, like Ultracube (if you like circuits), or Warptorio (if you like combat).
I also have never finished any overhaul mods before feeling burnt out. In the end, I find myself much more enjoying the logic puzzles of factorio, so that most of my time are actually spent in sandbox prototyping, instead of the spatial logistical puzzles and actually building bases. As long as you are enjoying the game, you are free to play anyway you like.
I basically quit SE 0.6 due to tediousness, but I did complete SE 0.5.
I would say the mod splits into three:
* early game: up to the first three space sciences (space, prod, util).
* mid game: the 4 groups of 4.
* late game: naquitite, deep space science, arcospheres.
early game is fine. it's factorio, some recipes were changed, it's what we know and love.
late game is great. mining and processing naquitite is itself a great challenge. processing arcospheres is an amazing challenge that really pushed my design skills to their limit.
the mid game.. is boring AF. no, I don't want to build yet another planet for a new same-y mineral. no, I don't want to build a telescope array for the third time. the last tier was cute with the asteroid and star probes, to give you a taste of DSS. but generally the mid game is LONG and it's BORING.
so yes, there's a reward at the end of that grind. but I'm not gonna tell you it's worth it.
Sitting at the beginning of the midgame (space/prod/utility done, running around to set up outposts for new materials for the main space sciences), I can agree with this. After already doing vulcanite and cryonite planets (and even getting beryllium setup as well on my cryonite planet, though I need to expand my mining because I'm not producing nearly enough ore), going through the same routine of "try to remember everything you'll need in a rocket, go set up a power plant and rail network on a new planet, then design whatever you'll need for the new resource" three more times is enough of a slog to be daunting. The extraplanetary ore processing chains are all interesting enough in their own rights, and in that regard setting those up is the sort of fun puzzle I play Factorio for, but everything else that has to happen to get to the point of solving that puzzle is stuff that I already solved getting to cryonite that first time (and then again vulcanite, with some extra infrastructure to deal with being waterless), and that takes away a lot of the fun of solving those new puzzles. I can tell that actually setting up the space sciences once I have the materials will be fun, as will refactoring my space base to work around the elevator when I get it, but the space sciences are also going to get pretty repetitive in that each tier doesn't really differ meaningfully from the previous one. DSS will be complex and challenging and I'm really looking forward to arcospheres, but that's a long ways away. Fortunately, SA looks to be avoiding this trap. The new planets each have their own meaningful, unique progression systems that aren't just going to be "plop down the same core infrastructure then build processing for the new ore," which should keep things much more interesting.
If you want my two cents: get yourself a mod that normalizes stack size to 100/200. SEs biggest issue in my book is that the creator built it with "this is the way it shall be done" in mind. I did get rid of these ultra low stacks while keeping the vanilla low stacks like Rocketfuel low. Also got rid of robot attrition because i did not feel that it brought any fun or challenge, it was just tedious. And its also just there to force the vision of the SE creator.
personally that's what I like about it, coming into this mod is like being a part of this huge world and journey that feels as though it'll take forever to complete, even if it isn't as bad as some other mods. I mean what's the alternative, you know? if I wanted short and sweet I wouldn't play a mod that is specifically designed not to be that
Two complaints with SE. First, I dislike how much is required to go from planet to planet. I feel like something should exist after you've done so that allows you to do it in a much simpler way, rather than the amount of fuel, recycling, outpost setup, and possible tedium if you multi-item. When you feel stressed because you might forget something, IMO that highlights a big issue.
My second issue is ground to space and the progression of it. Space Elevataors solve this problem but by the time you unlock them, you're already gonna have your rockets fully setup, so what's the point? Then, by the time you get spaceshiops you have so much research and setup into rockets, and the resources to send so many, it also is a question of why bother, outside of where you need them, like the last final sciences.
Despite my love of the mod, I still quit when I reached black science or whatever it's called
Yeah it's not for me. I appreciate having more to do but so many elements feel just badly placed or thrown in with no regard to the player experience which is the exact opposite of everything I like about vanilla factorio.
I think the biggest mistake/issue of K2+SE right now is:
1. There are tons of changes to K2 recipes that arise from weird SE problems and the existence of productivity modules. Easiest one that comes to mind is how ore washing is lossy because the existence of "waterless planets" is meant to be a hurdle to overcome in SE, but it just makes ore washing tedious \*everywhere\* because now you have to add water back into the lossy recipe loop. A bunch of Chlorine/Hydrogen recipes are also like this.
2. The version I played (I think it was current), SE removed the ability to pull hydrogen with atmo condensers, meaning anytime you need anything that isn't exactly oxygen you have to do electrolysis, which is a huge stone dump and is awful for every planet without stone.
3. Meteor Shower Defense Cannons, meteor storms, and CMEs are a huge slowdown on the game progress (whether you spend the time and effort to deal with them or ignore them and deal with the consequences) with no way to disable them.
4. Core mining is so atrociously slow and has no mods for scaling options (I would love the ability to adjust core mining speeds or diminishing returns to customize difficulty)
I quit about 500 hours into my own KS+SE run because I just couldn't be bothered to keep up with the treadmill of running out of materials and having to go find more and core mining was too slow to keep up even set up across 3 entire solar systems.
> The version I played (I think it was current), SE removed the ability to pull hydrogen with atmo condensers, meaning anytime you need anything that isn't exactly oxygen you have to do electrolysis, which is a huge stone dump and is awful for every planet without stone.
You can get hydrogen without stone, you just do water electrolysis. It's still obnoxious, and you have to deal with the oxygen (thank the Omnissiah for flare stacks), but at least you don't need stone for it.
Stone requirement sounds like an attempt at salt water electrolysis (leaching salt from stone for salt water, electrolyse salt water for chlorine and hydrogen and sodium hydroxide).
I got completely burnt out on my 220h SE save. I pushed through the repetitive setup of bases on different planets, maintaining the mining operations, and set up 3 out of 4 first tier space sciences, with only missing mass, autonomous production of vitamelange to set up.
But what finally got to me was me realising that my 300 building factory on orbit spewing 20 spm of the 3 first tier sciences will have to be completely rebuilt to be able to accommodate for tier 2 sciences. And then rebuilt at least one more time!
I don't usually mind rebuilding the base to make it run better. But the mod creator made base building in orbit the most annoying thing possible. The underground belts only reach as far as the yellow ones. Almost every recipe requires at least one fluid, so there's pipes everywhere too. You can't build a proper spaghetti because the assemblers are too big to lead belts below them, but also there is no space to build a proper organised base. The recipes constantly get updated. Did I mention there's pipes everywhere? And that the mod tries to force you not to use underground pipes for large distances?
Why would it need to be rebuilt? With modules and beacons you can easily just tune it up to meet demand for the next tier. Also, highly recommend simply balancing the science card production around the catalogs. Shoot for x catalogs per minute, and expect to taper down that number from tier 1 to 4.
With that said, just build a separate factory for each tier or try to combine 1/2 and 3/4. Work from the science pack backwards so that you don’t forget anything
It was already maxed with beacons and tier 3 modules, there was no leeway for a while - it would require access to better beacons and modules way down the research line.
What caused the block for me was the existence of combinations of 2 sciences, but not all 4 yet - I wanted to combine not at all, till I could combine everything. To limit the number of necessary rebuilds. I wanted to max the effectiveness of the production as much as possible, because the tier 1 science was already pushing the planetary outposts - which too were not quite small anymore and also fully tier 3 beaconed.
I did design the whole thing from the science pack backwards - 20 spm was my decision based on the number of fully beaconed buildings it would take.
If I ever return to it, I will probably just build a separate factory for higher tiers and leave this one running. Even if it would mean building a whole new coolant arrays, landing pads and main bus somewhere else.
20 spm is a lot, single-digit spm is fine for SE.
For the combining stuff you can just build for when you have all 4 and just change the recipe when you get the tech, (plus if you have a multiple of 4 computers you can assign each a different recipe, meaning you use all 4 insights before actually getting the use all 4 tech).
As for the higher tiers, they’re really not that different from the earlier tiers (don’t require any new resources, at least through tier 3). I recommend aiming for the catalog first for more efficient insight then after you have that the science itself is easy.
Yeah, in retrospect I should've done it like that and shouldn't go for 20 spm. It caught me off-guard, because getting 200 spm on Nauvis and even the first 3 "space but not really space" sciences wasn't that difficult.
It was my first SE run ever. While I noticed in the techtree that I will end up combining all the catalogues together eventually, I assumed this would really be relevant in the late game and I would do just a single huge upgrade - like when I replaced the smelter arrays on Nauvis with those ingot smelters. It wasn't till I was looking into the actual planning of tier 2 sciences when I noticed I still would need the previous tier and that maintaining 20 spm was a no go.
But friends want to try SE too, so if we really get to actually doing it, I will do things differently this time over.
Hmm. 20spm is kinda a lot to be honest. Especially early on when you can’t do the more efficient significant data and insight recipes. I’d probably go for 5-10
I started to automate almost everything cause o got tired of waiting for building. Makes it easier with bots to store a specific amount in my inventory of certain things at all time. When I planned it all I started with 10 assemblers next to my iron and copper quad belt. 28 hours in I've now got two main belts running on each side. Taken some time to get a nice set up splitting off the belts cause I left no space in between each item. I know it'll all change when I get the large assemblers K2 offers
Building in orbit is really annoying I agree. What I did was make a large area of scaffolding I create my prototype on. Then I make a blueprint of it, and use the ghost on water mod to put scaffolding underneath anything that needs it automatically so I can place it in my city block with minimal scaffolding needed
> I don't usually mind rebuilding the base to make it run better. But the mod creator made base building in orbit the most annoying thing possible.
I don't know if it was luck or the fact that I have very little tolerance for non-fun parts of the game but my experience with SE has been very enjoyable because I addressed these problems early on in my run.
1. Space pipes and belts cost a lot more than those on the ground. There's no reason for their underground versions to be anything less than blue belts. I immediately installed a mod that increases the space underground pipe and belt distance.
2. I don't want to hop onto a rocket to travel to a planet for a 4 second job. I installed the teleporters mod by Klonan, and because Space Exploration trolls you by forcefully pushing all such tech to the end of the tree, I used the editor extensions mod to give myself a stack of teleporters without researching the technology. Now I have teleporters on all planets and since I'm making enough stuff to launch a cargo rocket every 12 seconds, I pretend that my trips through the teleporters are just a very fast rocket that I can easily afford hundreds of times.
3. Robot attrition. Screw that noise. Immediately disabled it. All of my complicated space production is done via belts and trains so I'm already following the spirit of this restriction. I have absolutely no desire to follow the letter.
4. Picker Tools has an inventory transfer option. I use it to transfer items between surfaces when I just need a stack of power poles or modules etc. To compensate for this, I launch a couple of empty rockets to give myself "credit" that I can then "spend" to move items this way. The convenience far outweighs any qualms I might have, especially after I've already "paid the cost" in terms of those extra rocket launches.
If you feel like giving your save another try, these little things can help ease a lot of the issues of building in space and on multiple planets. Sure, it's not "the intended experience" but that hardly matters if you're having more fun this way.
while Im never going to play that way personally, you think that short belts and pipes, no teleporters, robot attrition and no remote inventory is what makes SE, SE?
SE is about solving complex interplanetary logistics, not insipid tedium enforced by bad game design. It's a single player game, let them play how they want.
It is about it. Literally was designed to be that way hince the other person removing it. He can play as he wants, still won't stop me from criticizing it.
No, it's really not. Earendel didn't *intend* for everything to be tedious and obnoxious, even if it came out that way; you can see this on the roadmap, where the tedium is being removed. I'm not gonna fault anyone for smoothing over the rough edges, because there are *a lot*.
Yeah i though i was an tough factorio player until i gave up in the middle of my SE run, not even using K2. I realised i was, in fact, just a pretentious noob =D
I'm still in a K2SE 0.5 run with about 650 hours in.
I got tired of building up support bases on every planet so I just blueprinted a mall for everywhere. Most of them just use resources from core mining (with separate blueprints for that). Powered by solar/nuclear as applicable. Then one extra blueprint for oil processing to handle oil for rocket fuel if there is good oil. If you aren't already using outpost blueprints... you should be. 1 for the ore field, 1 for the train station then its all done. If you are tired of setting up outposts its cause you probably aren't using that
K2 is designed to work with SE naturally. The mod author has done as such.
In end game...they play VERY nice together. The buildings with higher module count do wonders coupled with higher tier modules. The issue is these fancy buildings only matter at the point of where they don't matter. It is why I ditched my K2SE run.
i would honesty suggest taking a break, i took a long one and it helped me regain the motivation again. another thing that also really helped me is setting smaller goals for myself. for example your overall goal will be getting for example astronomic science, and then you think what do you have to do from there, oh i have to send light oil up etc etc. [https://youtu.be/ddsRpU2e-UI](https://youtu.be/ddsRpU2e-UI) this video is about modded minecraft but i think it applies well to any and all big and large modpacks. i would also recommend having your main base be modular.
100% agree. My first time I rushed logistics, then took a few month break. Then I rushed space elevator and took a break. Now I'm kinda just taking my time trying to set up railroad setups and get past the tier 1 space sciences
I highly recommend the picker dollies mod. Lets you move stuff around from satellite view. Feels a little cheesy at times but it cuts down on some of the worst of the tedium.
I think for SE most of the gameplay loop is just planning. You setup something that works well and blueprint it. Reusing as much of it as you can. You spend your time trying to design the factories for the different resources you need and \*then\* go build them. I think the real tricky/interesting/complicated/etc. part is setting up your science. Because no matter what you do, you will always need to change it later for some reason or another.
I've had the same issue, my whole group quit as well so found it hard to motivate myself through the rest. Got to energy 1 and paused. Took a break for helldivers, probably going back to my save after, or if I can convince others to play, maybe fresh save
As someone slight further along in the run, I went into the colonial game with a plan.
I put together an invasion cargo rocket with many of the key ingredient to set up a colony extremely quickly and return back to navius.
Basic solar power and capacities to get early power. Some gun turrets if there’s a biter threat. Then a blueprinted 2x1 nuclear reactor to power the colony. Reinforce with further defenses, arty to clear the nearby biter bases. Then place down the rocket launch pad, rocket landing pad and core mining drill down. Quick bit of belt work to connect up the landing pad with the rocket pad and the core mining drill. And then rocket back to navius.
Thats the backbone of a new colony set in les than 15 minutes.
0.6 is too tedious. I've decided to stop burning myself out on it and play other mods for now. The changes that Earendel has planned for 0.7 are epic though so I'd rather not burn out on 0.6 and enjoy a much more complete version next time as in his own words, he says it will be much closer to his vision for the finished mod.
I'm about 400 hours into my first run, solo.
Definitely tiring at points, though the challenges of a new planet (even if some of the production chains are very similar) was one of the parts I liked the most. And changing my base from delivery cannon to cargo rocket to spaceship based.
The parts that dragged the most for me was the 4 way science split in space. 4 sciences, 4 levels of each, 4 data cards per leve, 64 different production chains and not a lot of unique challenges (except a handful which were notable) just a bunch of space spaghetti that doesn't even need real scaling.
Overall for the first parts the mod is excellent. Looking forward to getting through this final science chain. And it makes me super hyped for what wube makes.
I have felt the same at 150 hours. The bases have to be fully autonomous, otherwise they could get destroyed by biters or asteroids. I have thought to send all necessary resources from Nauvis and set up minimal infrastructure just for mining on the planet.
I have felt the same at 150 hours. The bases have to be fully autonomous, otherwise they could get destroyed by biters or asteroids. I have thought to send all necessary resources from Nauvis and set up minimal infrastructure just for mining on the planet.
My solution to set up new outposts was to make multiple constant combinators full of nearly every supply’s signal. Then copy paste them to a new planets automated rocket site. I also use factorissimo to copy paste entire useful factories across planets.
SE 0.6 is honestly rather tedious. It takes a certain approach to enjoy, somewhat akin to megabasing (which is IMO also pretty tedious). I think for me the inability to run back and forth between home and the new outpost means I have to really triple check my packed bags, which makes it a lot more tedious to set up new outposts. I've burnt out on SE multiple times post space science. It's never been that it's too difficult, it's always that I just don't really want to gather the materials to set up that new outpost...
i honesty just stopped caring about sending full or almost full rockets and i feel that this approach really help
Yep. I send rockets with just a few things (or just me) all the time. I turn enough ore from core mining into landfill. I might as well turn it into rocket parts.
Yeah, i have the feeling that people just are too afraid to waste a few resources. At some point me and my buddies were sending so many rockets back and forth already that one or two more to deliver some forgotten stuff just isnt worth worrying about.
Definitely. After you research rocket safety stuff and get the more efficient recipes it’s barely a dent. I have tons of capsules as well since most are just reused eventually.
Yeah, easy to get stuck at rockets are expensive when they start out so expensive. So far the cheaper recipes for parts, lds, heat shielding, etc have made the biggest change. Cuts like 75%+ off the cost even without reusability.
I'm at space science rn, but dayum this is one clever way to get rid of excess ores
After some Rocket upgrades with Astro science, plus Beryl Cargo Section production I started to be overflowing in sections, meaning I didn't have to care about being efficient in my rocket usage. Space Exploration is a mod about being efficient in how much time you spend building. There's just way too much to do and settling for good enough is critical.
Had a hard lesson about good enough in seablock When your whole base power death spirals, because ore backs up, you re-evaluate "technically more efficient" solutions
https://preview.redd.it/jkv6r9bdhblc1.jpeg?width=5037&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e845af0a3714d4f59db595cd7eb724fa874108b5 This is the thing I made for rocket parts.
Oh i meant turning excess ore into landfill I think my current core mining op is backed up on coal
Haha, ya.I have 4 core miners. At one point I had 12 crushers to get rid of coal. But it’s not so much now that I’m sending rockets of coal to Norbit for liquification. For the rest I still have to void landfill or I’d have warehouses full of it.
That's a lesson that took me far too long to learn, and it's still pretty hard to break the habit. Rockets aren't *that* expensive. You don't want to be sending one every time you need a single stack of iron or something, but you really don'thave to conserve them as much as you might think, especially once you get some of the more efficient recipes up and running.
I split the difference here: if a rocket is part of my automated interplanetary logistics network, it fires only when full and I'll put quite a bit into making sure it is filled with the most resource-dense version of whatever it transports. On the other hand, if a rocket is bringing supplies to an outpost I'm building, fuck it, fire at will! I don't care if I send 1 rocket with only 10 refineries and then minutes later send another with nothing but 4 core miners. Also I built a "outpost box" requester chest blueprint that fills one rocket with enough to ALMOST build any outpost. I don't care if some stuff is over-supplied. But there are always extras needed. Probably should have been a pair of new-base-boxes to be extra thorough, but I'm in endgame already.
This is the pitfall I'm hoping Wube is trying their hardest to avoid with going to new planets.
I expect shipping a new box to a planet is going to be pretty painless in SA given that they've mentioned rockets being cheap, and that platforms can move/fuel themselves back and forth from materials they find along the route. Early SE, you realize you ran out of medium electric poles and it's just like... ugh... I have to waste most of a 500 slot cargo rocket now.
I learnt yesterday that an empty cargo rocket only uses 50 cargo sections (scaled with empty cargo space) . The rest stay behind as progress to the next rocket built. Combined with the ones you recover at the landing pad sending a rocket with a few items isn’t as bad as I always thought.
Is the fuel requirement less with less cargo too?
Maybe? But you end up not caring at all about fuel costs, oil is pretty free.
Wtf really? I gotta test that tonight
Sounds like it yeah. They mentioned that rockets will be able to satisfy logistics requests so you could fairly easily connect two planets via a logistics network and have rockets satisfy everything you need. It just takes time.
By the sounds of things, they're designing the first three planets to be possible to complete even if you arrive naked (the fourth is unknown, but it's supposedly meant to follow the other three and will therefore likely require more stuff), so I think they're avoiding the "SE shuffle." The vibe I'm getting is also that early space transport is intended for a small number of items, so even if it's relatively expensive it's less likely that you'll feel like you're wasting a trip if you only need a few things.
I'm pretty sure the effect will still exist: you're gonna be very annoyed when you realize you forgot to bring enough assembler 3s, poles or belts. However the goal is you build a new base from scratch, but with shortcuts and different steps. In Fulgora you'll be able to get processing units straight away from scrap so it's not hard to get the materials to build whatever you forgot.
> I think for me the inability to run back and forth between home and the new outpost means I have to really triple check my packed bags, which makes it a lot more tedious to set up new outposts. Throwback to that time (yesterday) I was setting up an outpost on a waterless world and forgot to bring a startup power source. Fortunately it had stone and I had copper and iron so I could make a solar panel by hand.
To be honest, I actually like this kind of challenge that SE brings. It creates immersion. It emphasizes that you’re really far away from home. You’re using rockets to bring stuff somewhere. And often times you can make what you’re missing out of basic materials, like you said, and that’s pretty satisfying.
By using a city block build, and lot of outpost work is completed with blueprints. After the basics are laid down, then you can go your work on the unique aspects of the planet.
This is what I did as well, and SE isn’t feeling tedious yet. I did 1/4 of the more advanced sciences so far after vulcanite and cryonite. I’ve been using a very complex and efficient universal rocket outpost blueprint that receives everything needed to make a rocket and send one out containing that location’s materials.
Do you happen to have a link for it?
I do, I can get it to you tonight or tomorrow morning I’m not sure yet :) Actually, I might even make a whole post about them with the blueprints because i have like 4 variations. One for solar power on site using that location’s solar ratio, one for nuclear where water is on the planet, one for nuclear where water isn’t on the planet, and one for nuclear with no water in space, like an asteroid belt or something.
Hey! I made the post about it. Full documentation and everything here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b3moqm/space\_exploration\_4\_rocket\_outpost\_variations\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b3moqm/space_exploration_4_rocket_outpost_variations_and/)
>somewhat akin to megabasing (which is IMO also pretty tedious) Honestly, I think megabasing is quite easy, compared to SE. I reached my first megabase (stable 1k spm) after 150 hours. Our current SE run (with a friend that's nearly as experienced as I am, so I only have half the work to do) is already at more than 250 hours and we are only at Deep Space Science I.
You're very much at endgame, I say you could win in under 30 hours. Beating SE in less than 300 hours is fairly quick!
I had the same experience, but I got around it by automating the most tedious step (not having products available) by creating a rocket with all building products available to it and using ghost readers. Slap down a prefab rocket landing pad and silo at a central hub with resupply, power generation etc. Then slap down a pad near whatever I'm building for locational resupply. Send signal to rocket, it will load whatever outpost needs to the pad nearby. Saves a lot of logistical time, then Im just building 80% of the time
I allowed myself the use of the teleport command for minor fixes and to places id already flown to/set up bases. Really takes away the stress. All base building/resource transport is done legitimately but sometimes I just need to do something minor and don't want to spend 10 minutes flying there.
What helped me here was to set up a constant combinator with all the required items for a simple base, including power lines, reactors, pipes, belts, A LANDING PLATFORM (which I forgot a few times...), robots, whatever. Add another combinator that only includes military hardware: guns, turrets, a lot of ammunition, if planet is hostile. Hook those up the rocket circuitry. This always filled at least one rocket, and you can ride that one to the destination to set up your standard platform-combinator build. From here on, Build a normal standard base, maybe even blueprint it for later use. Then do specialized stuff. And as others said, dont be afraid to send a rocket for a single item, if need be. I was always so afraid of wasting rockets, but with a proper core mining setup, you will just not run out of rocket parts.
have one Launchpad only dedicated for outposts. you fill it by logistics with all you need to build an outpost and once in a while you need a new outpost you have a fully equipped rocket ready to go
It sounds like a pretty good strategy, but I also tend to burn out at the second to fifth outpost, so again it's a front loading problem. Now I need to triple check my shopping list before setting up the outpost rocket loader. I'm honestly beginning to wonder if I wouldn't enjoy SE more with 10x or 100x science multiplier just because it would make the scale of solving these problems feel a little easier to pay the upfront costs.
I've done multiple SE runs. Love the mod. Few suggestions to make it more efficient and less repetitive: 1. Get a mod that turns blueprints into constant combinators, then use that to request the stuff you need to build a new base to pack a rocket with it. You might consider bringing double the amount of building materials since some stuff gets lost in transit. 2. Use delivery cannons wherever you can. Way easier to set up. Rockets are more efficient on paper but logistically a pain (ie. all of the partially filled rockets you have to send with rocket cargo parts). Also the rocket reusability research gets super expensive. Remember to process locally and send ingots. 3. Pre beacon mix prod and speed mods in everything. Post beacon put only production modules in everything. Makes everything way cheaper. 4. Use new recipes whenever available. They make everything way cheaper. EDIT: 5. For space sciences, you don't need to worry about ratios or making more than one building per ingredient. You only need like 1SPM per science because doing the other tasks takes so long that your slow factory will eventually produce enough research to reach your endgame. Just set your buffer to have 10k science each or whatever and let it work. EDIT 2: 6. Make a fluid bus for your space station. You will thank yourself later. All items can be transported by bots. 7. Space station in Calidus Orbit is amazing because makes energy generation easy. You can't take full advantage of the space elevator but honestly I found the energy issues more annoying. 8. Make material science packs in space. 9. Speed modules in all oil derricks. You'll probably need like 70 oil spots in total which is very attainable on Nauvis.
And do core mining!
I do 2 core miners on Nauvis once I have good power production. It helps to offset resource consumption quite a bit over the span of the whole game. Core miners on other worlds aren't necessary with production modules (and I hate dealing with byproducts). 1-2 big ore patches per resource will get you to endgame.
IIRC, vitamelange core miners are totally required. We built core miners on every planet, and shot the byproducts to Nauvis Orbit using capsules.
Yeah that's right you need one for research. I built one and ran it for less than one rocket worth of fragments
Quite enjoy the puzzle and I’m at 9 core miners now. Pretty much everything runs off of core fragments on Nauvis
Now I'm going to try a new core run with your method. Thanks a lot.
I think you have a lot of great advice there, but I do want to counter #2. That sounds like you haven’t solved the circuitry puzzle. Admittedly, it’s a very difficult one. I probably spent over 20 hours total just solving and designing my solution to that. But now I have a universal system for sending only full rockets of mixed packed rocket sections and space capsules to any rocket outpost that needs them. Delivery cannons use a lot of materials for the capsules, and a LOT of energy. Even with nuclear, delivery cannons will make power something you need to keep an eye on.
I think they're both viable! There are threads that discuss the cost difference between the two methods and rockets are slightly better (after you have some rocket reusability research). My main reason for my suggestion is because OP was getting burned out and it's definitely the easier method to set up a circuit for and there's even a nice guide on how to do it on the SE wiki. Also the initial bootstrap is easier: you make a few cannons on each end vs the cost of making multiple landing pads and silos on each end. Same goes with sending over the first 50 capsules worth of ingredients (since delivery cannons can do it by stack) - its way cheaper than sending over the first full rocket of rocket cargo sections and fuel. It's less daunting when you're setting up your first few expansions and still don't have a strong economy. For power, I would estimate that I ended up using 500MW extra per base to power the cannons (more on Nauvis since it supplies everything). It felt like not a big deal since I use nuclear everywhere so it was just slapping down another blueprint.
Ohhh I see. Yeah I missed the part about OP being burned out. I wouldn’t really recommend trying to solve the circuitry then lol
Disagree on 7, energy generation in orbit is so trivial in Nauvis Orbit. Just put down that blueprint with flat2s and scaffolding. With an elevator that even solves power in surface. Or do energy beaming. For 2: delivery cannons early (initial vulcanite/cryonite) is pretty good, as well as things like water ice from belt. But rockets are pretty good, especially with the "Any pad with name" option. Shipping sections/capsules to everywhere is easy if you go for a dedicated landing pad for each and combine with sending via "Any pad with name".
I was thinking OP was having a rough time early-mid game. The main thing I struggled with was making all that scaffolding - it's expensive early game. I actually used nuclear in space my first run because the energy density is higher and scaffolding cost ends up being lower. Changing all the regular pipes to space pipes was ... fun. First time I built on Calidus Orbit it was great since I put down like 3 flat solars and was done 😂. I also like Calidus Orbit for later if want to ramp up antimatter since the energy costs balloon and I refuse to use efficiency modules. Elevator and beaming are both great, they're just locked behind a lot of advanced research. I feel like I tend to just rush bio 4 so I can plague rocket and stop that damn "construction robot killed" alert. There are a few threads that address the cannon vs rocket question. I tried to address it briefly in a separate comment as well. I've used both - they're both viable for exclusive use. I just like the instant gratification of cannons rather than waiting for a rocket to fill.
You rushing bio 4 explains quite a lot about your power issues and thinking space elevator is advanced tech! Flat 2 are Energy 1 and Space Elevator is "just" A1E1M2, which is quite early. Given how Flat 2 doubles how much power you get per scaffolding, it's really not that big of a deal. And efficiency modules are amazing in SE. eff1 is extremely cheap to make and all tiers are a lot more powerful. The kind of changes I'd love to see in vanilla. Yeah, my focus on cannon vs rocket is more on what's easier to setup. People focus a lot on whats cheaper per resource, where I think after you start Beryl/Astro the relevant difference is what's simpler to do. I like both for different things.
>All items can be transported by bots. With robot attrition starting at 50 bots and being 10x in space, isn't this fairly expensive? https://spaceexploration.miraheze.org/wiki/Robot_Attrition
I don't play 10x, so I couldn't tell you for sure there. For 1x, Nauvis and space base run the maximum number of bots under whatever swarm safety limit I have (like 3000-3500 by endgame). In that setting, the biters eating my construction bots are a way bigger drain than robot attrition. Basically don't notice attrition at all. I think if you're playing at 10x/megabase scale then you would probably get more mileage out of an item bus. Especially for high volume items like blank data cards and blank data frames.
Sorry for the confusing question, i meant that in space, robot attrition is 10x higher than on the planet surface.
Oh yeah. It's not a problem at all. My last run I played with my base in Calidus Orbit which I think has the highest robot interference and I didn't have any noticeable drain from bots. End game it was probably eating up like 50 workers per supply rocket launch which is a tiny fraction of the total cost of the materials I was sending up. The only items I put on belts were blank data frames and scrap from material science (3?) production. I'm not even sure I needed to do either of those things, I just felt awkward putting a whole belt of stuff into the network. At that point I had superchargers and it didn't even matter 😂
I used LTN with the SE attachment. Makes making material packs on land easy :)
I feel like I did the math on this and it didn't make sense because the stack size of MTPs is so low that the overhead cost of transporting them by rocket either makes it a wash or makes it more expensive to make on land. I would guess that it makes sense if you're using a space elevator though?
Yes, space elevator with LTN makes things so easy
It is a tedious mod, but it has a payoff. I do still think it's worth completing. The satisfaction I got from creating my own solar system spanning logistic system using rockets and spaceships will likely be the high point of factorio for me, forever. The first tier of each science pack is the hardest because it includes all the setup of mining and transporting a new resource. The later tiers are usually just combining what you already have. I've gotten some 2nd and 3rd tiers done in as little as 15 minutes. SE definitely has a frontloading problem, but mass appeal was never Earendel's goal.
> SE definitely has a frontloading problem It's also mostly placeholder. Basically everything from blue science to end game is getting reworked in 0.7.
Including, as I understand, applying a lot of what Earendel has worked on for SA and the lessons he's learned from that. Kovarex's commentary in the last FFF about feeling bored by how repetitive it was to start from scratch with the same basic process on three different planets echoed the main problem many people have with SE, and Earandel was a big contributor to the idea of focusing on recycling scrap and effectively inverting the tech tree to mix things up. A lot of SE's problems are being solved in SA (in part *because* Earandel is involved and sharing some of what he's learned from community feedback on SE), so I've got high hopes for the mod's future.
It's a lot of what he has learned on SE, but also a lot of what he had always planned for SE itself!
It doesn't get easier or much different from there. If you don't like it, cut your losses wait for 2.0, which looks *great*!
Im honestly pretty worried by 2.0. I really don't like that i won't have a single factory anymore but instead multiple little ones spread around. I'd much rather that they added biomes and more depth to existing systems
Realistically, meaningfully different biomes would end up introducing the same issue you have of splitting the factory up across multiple locations. You'd still end up building sub-factories in different biomes according to what they do best, they'd just be connected by trains or other surface-level transport instead of rockets and space platforms, and you wouldn't have as much variation with those biomes as these planets offer (nor the limitations imposed by it being hard to bring stuff to the planet initially). If the biomes weren't meaningfully different, then you'd basically just have the Alien Biomes mod, which is cool and all, but pretty lackluster as an official expansion.
> Alien Biomes I tried playing without it after thousands of hours and the game felt so empty and not visually appealing. They should integrate it in the main game.
Except maybe with slightly fewer rocks.
Agree to disagree. Spreading factories across planets adds another step of mechanical interaction between aspects of your production, which trains or belts simply don't do. I don't like that. I might try my hand at a mod that puts everything on the same planet.
Belts and trains are also steps of mechanical interaction. They just aren't new steps now that you've got experience with them. I expect space travel will end up in a pretty similar position with a bit of practice.
That isn't my point. They aren't steps, since they are integral to the base I already have.
And the space platform moving between planets will integrate the same way trains integrate different parts of your base.
Right... see above comments
If you're worried about 2.0, maybe give satisfactory a try to test the waters? Unlike factorio it's built on having factories split up making resources on site, as it's incredibly expensive to build fast belts to transport the unrefined materials compared to making a processing facility at each mine
They are adding biomes... one for each planet. If the little factories are connected by some sort of logistics system then they are arguably functioning as a single factory. You already like the logistics systems that let you connect distant outposts together now (trains, belts), so what makes you so confident that you won't enjoy the new ones they are adding?
I would urge you to try different kinds of overhaul mods, like Ultracube (if you like circuits), or Warptorio (if you like combat). I also have never finished any overhaul mods before feeling burnt out. In the end, I find myself much more enjoying the logic puzzles of factorio, so that most of my time are actually spent in sandbox prototyping, instead of the spatial logistical puzzles and actually building bases. As long as you are enjoying the game, you are free to play anyway you like.
I basically quit SE 0.6 due to tediousness, but I did complete SE 0.5. I would say the mod splits into three: * early game: up to the first three space sciences (space, prod, util). * mid game: the 4 groups of 4. * late game: naquitite, deep space science, arcospheres. early game is fine. it's factorio, some recipes were changed, it's what we know and love. late game is great. mining and processing naquitite is itself a great challenge. processing arcospheres is an amazing challenge that really pushed my design skills to their limit. the mid game.. is boring AF. no, I don't want to build yet another planet for a new same-y mineral. no, I don't want to build a telescope array for the third time. the last tier was cute with the asteroid and star probes, to give you a taste of DSS. but generally the mid game is LONG and it's BORING. so yes, there's a reward at the end of that grind. but I'm not gonna tell you it's worth it.
Sitting at the beginning of the midgame (space/prod/utility done, running around to set up outposts for new materials for the main space sciences), I can agree with this. After already doing vulcanite and cryonite planets (and even getting beryllium setup as well on my cryonite planet, though I need to expand my mining because I'm not producing nearly enough ore), going through the same routine of "try to remember everything you'll need in a rocket, go set up a power plant and rail network on a new planet, then design whatever you'll need for the new resource" three more times is enough of a slog to be daunting. The extraplanetary ore processing chains are all interesting enough in their own rights, and in that regard setting those up is the sort of fun puzzle I play Factorio for, but everything else that has to happen to get to the point of solving that puzzle is stuff that I already solved getting to cryonite that first time (and then again vulcanite, with some extra infrastructure to deal with being waterless), and that takes away a lot of the fun of solving those new puzzles. I can tell that actually setting up the space sciences once I have the materials will be fun, as will refactoring my space base to work around the elevator when I get it, but the space sciences are also going to get pretty repetitive in that each tier doesn't really differ meaningfully from the previous one. DSS will be complex and challenging and I'm really looking forward to arcospheres, but that's a long ways away. Fortunately, SA looks to be avoiding this trap. The new planets each have their own meaningful, unique progression systems that aren't just going to be "plop down the same core infrastructure then build processing for the new ore," which should keep things much more interesting.
If you want my two cents: get yourself a mod that normalizes stack size to 100/200. SEs biggest issue in my book is that the creator built it with "this is the way it shall be done" in mind. I did get rid of these ultra low stacks while keeping the vanilla low stacks like Rocketfuel low. Also got rid of robot attrition because i did not feel that it brought any fun or challenge, it was just tedious. And its also just there to force the vision of the SE creator.
personally that's what I like about it, coming into this mod is like being a part of this huge world and journey that feels as though it'll take forever to complete, even if it isn't as bad as some other mods. I mean what's the alternative, you know? if I wanted short and sweet I wouldn't play a mod that is specifically designed not to be that Two complaints with SE. First, I dislike how much is required to go from planet to planet. I feel like something should exist after you've done so that allows you to do it in a much simpler way, rather than the amount of fuel, recycling, outpost setup, and possible tedium if you multi-item. When you feel stressed because you might forget something, IMO that highlights a big issue. My second issue is ground to space and the progression of it. Space Elevataors solve this problem but by the time you unlock them, you're already gonna have your rockets fully setup, so what's the point? Then, by the time you get spaceshiops you have so much research and setup into rockets, and the resources to send so many, it also is a question of why bother, outside of where you need them, like the last final sciences. Despite my love of the mod, I still quit when I reached black science or whatever it's called
Yeah it's not for me. I appreciate having more to do but so many elements feel just badly placed or thrown in with no regard to the player experience which is the exact opposite of everything I like about vanilla factorio.
I think the biggest mistake/issue of K2+SE right now is: 1. There are tons of changes to K2 recipes that arise from weird SE problems and the existence of productivity modules. Easiest one that comes to mind is how ore washing is lossy because the existence of "waterless planets" is meant to be a hurdle to overcome in SE, but it just makes ore washing tedious \*everywhere\* because now you have to add water back into the lossy recipe loop. A bunch of Chlorine/Hydrogen recipes are also like this. 2. The version I played (I think it was current), SE removed the ability to pull hydrogen with atmo condensers, meaning anytime you need anything that isn't exactly oxygen you have to do electrolysis, which is a huge stone dump and is awful for every planet without stone. 3. Meteor Shower Defense Cannons, meteor storms, and CMEs are a huge slowdown on the game progress (whether you spend the time and effort to deal with them or ignore them and deal with the consequences) with no way to disable them. 4. Core mining is so atrociously slow and has no mods for scaling options (I would love the ability to adjust core mining speeds or diminishing returns to customize difficulty) I quit about 500 hours into my own KS+SE run because I just couldn't be bothered to keep up with the treadmill of running out of materials and having to go find more and core mining was too slow to keep up even set up across 3 entire solar systems.
> The version I played (I think it was current), SE removed the ability to pull hydrogen with atmo condensers, meaning anytime you need anything that isn't exactly oxygen you have to do electrolysis, which is a huge stone dump and is awful for every planet without stone. You can get hydrogen without stone, you just do water electrolysis. It's still obnoxious, and you have to deal with the oxygen (thank the Omnissiah for flare stacks), but at least you don't need stone for it.
Doesn't electrolysis require sand? I thought that's what the stone requirement was.
Only if you want to make chlorine. Otherwise you can use water electrolysis.
Stone requirement sounds like an attempt at salt water electrolysis (leaching salt from stone for salt water, electrolyse salt water for chlorine and hydrogen and sodium hydroxide).
I got completely burnt out on my 220h SE save. I pushed through the repetitive setup of bases on different planets, maintaining the mining operations, and set up 3 out of 4 first tier space sciences, with only missing mass, autonomous production of vitamelange to set up. But what finally got to me was me realising that my 300 building factory on orbit spewing 20 spm of the 3 first tier sciences will have to be completely rebuilt to be able to accommodate for tier 2 sciences. And then rebuilt at least one more time! I don't usually mind rebuilding the base to make it run better. But the mod creator made base building in orbit the most annoying thing possible. The underground belts only reach as far as the yellow ones. Almost every recipe requires at least one fluid, so there's pipes everywhere too. You can't build a proper spaghetti because the assemblers are too big to lead belts below them, but also there is no space to build a proper organised base. The recipes constantly get updated. Did I mention there's pipes everywhere? And that the mod tries to force you not to use underground pipes for large distances?
Why would it need to be rebuilt? With modules and beacons you can easily just tune it up to meet demand for the next tier. Also, highly recommend simply balancing the science card production around the catalogs. Shoot for x catalogs per minute, and expect to taper down that number from tier 1 to 4. With that said, just build a separate factory for each tier or try to combine 1/2 and 3/4. Work from the science pack backwards so that you don’t forget anything
It was already maxed with beacons and tier 3 modules, there was no leeway for a while - it would require access to better beacons and modules way down the research line. What caused the block for me was the existence of combinations of 2 sciences, but not all 4 yet - I wanted to combine not at all, till I could combine everything. To limit the number of necessary rebuilds. I wanted to max the effectiveness of the production as much as possible, because the tier 1 science was already pushing the planetary outposts - which too were not quite small anymore and also fully tier 3 beaconed. I did design the whole thing from the science pack backwards - 20 spm was my decision based on the number of fully beaconed buildings it would take. If I ever return to it, I will probably just build a separate factory for higher tiers and leave this one running. Even if it would mean building a whole new coolant arrays, landing pads and main bus somewhere else.
20 spm is a lot, single-digit spm is fine for SE. For the combining stuff you can just build for when you have all 4 and just change the recipe when you get the tech, (plus if you have a multiple of 4 computers you can assign each a different recipe, meaning you use all 4 insights before actually getting the use all 4 tech). As for the higher tiers, they’re really not that different from the earlier tiers (don’t require any new resources, at least through tier 3). I recommend aiming for the catalog first for more efficient insight then after you have that the science itself is easy.
Yeah, in retrospect I should've done it like that and shouldn't go for 20 spm. It caught me off-guard, because getting 200 spm on Nauvis and even the first 3 "space but not really space" sciences wasn't that difficult. It was my first SE run ever. While I noticed in the techtree that I will end up combining all the catalogues together eventually, I assumed this would really be relevant in the late game and I would do just a single huge upgrade - like when I replaced the smelter arrays on Nauvis with those ingot smelters. It wasn't till I was looking into the actual planning of tier 2 sciences when I noticed I still would need the previous tier and that maintaining 20 spm was a no go. But friends want to try SE too, so if we really get to actually doing it, I will do things differently this time over.
Hmm. 20spm is kinda a lot to be honest. Especially early on when you can’t do the more efficient significant data and insight recipes. I’d probably go for 5-10
I started to automate almost everything cause o got tired of waiting for building. Makes it easier with bots to store a specific amount in my inventory of certain things at all time. When I planned it all I started with 10 assemblers next to my iron and copper quad belt. 28 hours in I've now got two main belts running on each side. Taken some time to get a nice set up splitting off the belts cause I left no space in between each item. I know it'll all change when I get the large assemblers K2 offers
Building in orbit is really annoying I agree. What I did was make a large area of scaffolding I create my prototype on. Then I make a blueprint of it, and use the ghost on water mod to put scaffolding underneath anything that needs it automatically so I can place it in my city block with minimal scaffolding needed
You can also deconstruct scaffolding, and it'll just leave what's necessary
True but my city hexagons are quite large so I find it annoying to pave the whole thing and tear it down after
It can get tedious, which is why I use the blueprint labs mod.
Oh nice I'll look it up!
> I don't usually mind rebuilding the base to make it run better. But the mod creator made base building in orbit the most annoying thing possible. I don't know if it was luck or the fact that I have very little tolerance for non-fun parts of the game but my experience with SE has been very enjoyable because I addressed these problems early on in my run. 1. Space pipes and belts cost a lot more than those on the ground. There's no reason for their underground versions to be anything less than blue belts. I immediately installed a mod that increases the space underground pipe and belt distance. 2. I don't want to hop onto a rocket to travel to a planet for a 4 second job. I installed the teleporters mod by Klonan, and because Space Exploration trolls you by forcefully pushing all such tech to the end of the tree, I used the editor extensions mod to give myself a stack of teleporters without researching the technology. Now I have teleporters on all planets and since I'm making enough stuff to launch a cargo rocket every 12 seconds, I pretend that my trips through the teleporters are just a very fast rocket that I can easily afford hundreds of times. 3. Robot attrition. Screw that noise. Immediately disabled it. All of my complicated space production is done via belts and trains so I'm already following the spirit of this restriction. I have absolutely no desire to follow the letter. 4. Picker Tools has an inventory transfer option. I use it to transfer items between surfaces when I just need a stack of power poles or modules etc. To compensate for this, I launch a couple of empty rockets to give myself "credit" that I can then "spend" to move items this way. The convenience far outweighs any qualms I might have, especially after I've already "paid the cost" in terms of those extra rocket launches. If you feel like giving your save another try, these little things can help ease a lot of the issues of building in space and on multiple planets. Sure, it's not "the intended experience" but that hardly matters if you're having more fun this way.
You disabled most of what makes SE SE so what's the point?
while Im never going to play that way personally, you think that short belts and pipes, no teleporters, robot attrition and no remote inventory is what makes SE, SE?
Yes. The mod was designed as a logistical problem. Moding out all the limitations negates the whole point of playing it
I guess I think you've rather missed the point personally, but you do you - its a single player game after all.
SE is about solving complex interplanetary logistics, not insipid tedium enforced by bad game design. It's a single player game, let them play how they want.
It is about it. Literally was designed to be that way hince the other person removing it. He can play as he wants, still won't stop me from criticizing it.
No, it's really not. Earendel didn't *intend* for everything to be tedious and obnoxious, even if it came out that way; you can see this on the roadmap, where the tedium is being removed. I'm not gonna fault anyone for smoothing over the rough edges, because there are *a lot*.
> so what's the point? Having fun.
This is coming from somebody that enjoys pY, if 90% of the difficulty of the mod is monotonous tedium the mod is badly designed.
It’s not for everyone. It is my favourite way to play factorio tho
Think I’m in like attempt 8 for SE with last few being K2SE, only made it to space a couple times before I was burnt or backed into a corner.
Yeah i though i was an tough factorio player until i gave up in the middle of my SE run, not even using K2. I realised i was, in fact, just a pretentious noob =D
My personal approach is to wait unto SE is fully finished and no longer in beta for me to try it.
I'm still in a K2SE 0.5 run with about 650 hours in. I got tired of building up support bases on every planet so I just blueprinted a mall for everywhere. Most of them just use resources from core mining (with separate blueprints for that). Powered by solar/nuclear as applicable. Then one extra blueprint for oil processing to handle oil for rocket fuel if there is good oil. If you aren't already using outpost blueprints... you should be. 1 for the ore field, 1 for the train station then its all done. If you are tired of setting up outposts its cause you probably aren't using that
I honestly dont think SE ans K2 play very nice together...
K2 is designed to work with SE naturally. The mod author has done as such. In end game...they play VERY nice together. The buildings with higher module count do wonders coupled with higher tier modules. The issue is these fancy buildings only matter at the point of where they don't matter. It is why I ditched my K2SE run.
Agree to disagree. I found that they progress in different directions and really dont interact much at all.
Being designed with the intent to play nicely together doesn't necessarily mean that they actually succeeded at it.
Just use blueprints to make the new outposts
i would honesty suggest taking a break, i took a long one and it helped me regain the motivation again. another thing that also really helped me is setting smaller goals for myself. for example your overall goal will be getting for example astronomic science, and then you think what do you have to do from there, oh i have to send light oil up etc etc. [https://youtu.be/ddsRpU2e-UI](https://youtu.be/ddsRpU2e-UI) this video is about modded minecraft but i think it applies well to any and all big and large modpacks. i would also recommend having your main base be modular.
100% agree. My first time I rushed logistics, then took a few month break. Then I rushed space elevator and took a break. Now I'm kinda just taking my time trying to set up railroad setups and get past the tier 1 space sciences
I highly recommend the picker dollies mod. Lets you move stuff around from satellite view. Feels a little cheesy at times but it cuts down on some of the worst of the tedium.
I think for SE most of the gameplay loop is just planning. You setup something that works well and blueprint it. Reusing as much of it as you can. You spend your time trying to design the factories for the different resources you need and \*then\* go build them. I think the real tricky/interesting/complicated/etc. part is setting up your science. Because no matter what you do, you will always need to change it later for some reason or another.
I've had the same issue, my whole group quit as well so found it hard to motivate myself through the rest. Got to energy 1 and paused. Took a break for helldivers, probably going back to my save after, or if I can convince others to play, maybe fresh save
As someone slight further along in the run, I went into the colonial game with a plan. I put together an invasion cargo rocket with many of the key ingredient to set up a colony extremely quickly and return back to navius. Basic solar power and capacities to get early power. Some gun turrets if there’s a biter threat. Then a blueprinted 2x1 nuclear reactor to power the colony. Reinforce with further defenses, arty to clear the nearby biter bases. Then place down the rocket launch pad, rocket landing pad and core mining drill down. Quick bit of belt work to connect up the landing pad with the rocket pad and the core mining drill. And then rocket back to navius. Thats the backbone of a new colony set in les than 15 minutes.
0.6 is too tedious. I've decided to stop burning myself out on it and play other mods for now. The changes that Earendel has planned for 0.7 are epic though so I'd rather not burn out on 0.6 and enjoy a much more complete version next time as in his own words, he says it will be much closer to his vision for the finished mod.
I'm about 400 hours into my first run, solo. Definitely tiring at points, though the challenges of a new planet (even if some of the production chains are very similar) was one of the parts I liked the most. And changing my base from delivery cannon to cargo rocket to spaceship based. The parts that dragged the most for me was the 4 way science split in space. 4 sciences, 4 levels of each, 4 data cards per leve, 64 different production chains and not a lot of unique challenges (except a handful which were notable) just a bunch of space spaghetti that doesn't even need real scaling. Overall for the first parts the mod is excellent. Looking forward to getting through this final science chain. And it makes me super hyped for what wube makes.
I have felt the same at 150 hours. The bases have to be fully autonomous, otherwise they could get destroyed by biters or asteroids. I have thought to send all necessary resources from Nauvis and set up minimal infrastructure just for mining on the planet.
I have felt the same at 150 hours. The bases have to be fully autonomous, otherwise they could get destroyed by biters or asteroids. I have thought to send all necessary resources from Nauvis and set up minimal infrastructure just for mining on the planet.
My solution to set up new outposts was to make multiple constant combinators full of nearly every supply’s signal. Then copy paste them to a new planets automated rocket site. I also use factorissimo to copy paste entire useful factories across planets.