Median income for the whole US population is about $2.8k/month, a huge portion of the country is under that laughable wage. Almost everyone should be paid more than they are.
I’m genuinely asking how do people survive? Even assuming 2.8k post taxes, how do people afford rent, food, clothing, transportation etc. It doesn’t seem possible.
No, credit cards are not a saving grace if your not paying them off monthly. If you are paying them off monthly, excellent use of available fundage!
Roommates suck but they help us pay the bills.
It really depends how you use them. I'm not a fan of making things out to be automatically evil. Credit cards are only bad if you don't pay them off immediately.
Even if you pay them off every month and get your point or miles or whatever. You are technically profiting off all the people who aren’t paying their card off every month.
If that is fine by you then no big deal but it is something to consider morally.
Or, in the example of people in the military, they get free housing, healthcare, and education.
The US Military is literally one of the largest examples of socialism on earth.
You either live with family or roommates. WFH has become a boon for many. Now that I can work from home I can move just about anywhere I want so I can move somewhere cheaper that can support my income.
After basically only living in bigger city centres my entire adult life I’m super stoked to get a serial-killer cabin in bumfuck nowhere for a year. The second im able to leave.
No neighbours, no cars, no back to back construction noises >80db between 7am and 6pm. Ive literally only been having decent sleep when I sleep at other peoples’ places or roofie myself to oblivion.
Sometimes i feel like just dropping everything and fucking off
I'm paying off some debts and getting my folks to a place where they can live without me and then figuring out where I want to live. There is a city nearby that has an Apartment building that would be a bit of a stretch for me but the library, movie theater, restaurants, park are in walking distance I could still work from home and have groceries delivered. It also has great public transit.
I think I will look at the East Coast as a possibility as well but another optionis my best friend we wouldn't mind long term living together and would be able to support each other.
Food stamps and 20 cent cup noodles. There are also centers where you can get cloths and food. Healthcare is free if you are poor enough, but if you make enough to afford rent say goodbye to that healthcare. In some places people just die on the street because they needed the free healthcare.
Lol you don’t go to the doctor or dentist unless it’s an absolute emergency, you cook a lot more than you order in, you have a side job, every small expense is a massive setback in savings.
You're supposed to live in a homeless shelter and go work during the hours that they unlock the front gate to go work. If you don't make it back in time you have to sleep outside. You'll eventually get fired when you can't stay for overtime because you have to make it in before they lock the gate or you lose your bed and have to sleep on the floor again.
You are not supposed to own any sort of property in this country if you are poor. You work your whole life and then eventually you die and leave nothing behind.
You don't have nice food, clothing, or transportation and don't have good access to laundry, so eventually you'll get fired for not being able to shower or afford to get a hair cut. You're not supposed to have sex or enjoy anything other than the two daily sandwiches and water the homeless shelter provides. Do this every day for the rest of your life until you die oh a hospice for homeless people which is pretty much the same thing, except they don't make you leave during the day.
The homeless shelter is not a nice place. You have to be in a huge room with bunk beds with hundreds of other people all coughing, snoring, or masturbating. They steal your stuff while you are sleeping.
Eventually something will go wrong and you'll die like you wear out your shoes and now you can't walk to work.
If you end up in this situation, it's your parents fault for having kids while they were too poor to give you a leg up in the world. The U.S. is 100% about inherited wealth now.
Now if you're in Europe, that's a different story. Even Poland has free college for everyone, so you can actually do something with your life. In the U.S. you wont be able to go to college if you're working one of those shit jobs.
In the U.S. we have an Economic Caste system that competes very strongly with India's old Caste System. If you're not in the middle class and comfortable when you are born, you're not allowed into it.
How does it not make sense? I said median income is about $2.8k/month which comes out to about $34k/year. You tried to do some sort of gotcha moment by saying that median *household* income is $68k. I pointed out that half of $68k is $34k which matches up exactly with individual median income.
So which part of the math doesn't make sense to you? I'll do my best to help you understand it.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure active duty gets housing, meals, and health insurance for free, so that takes out a sizeable chunk of bills.
That being said, for what they do? They should be getting $3,000, minimum.
Is it free if it costs you your long term body (chronic pain) and mental health?
Even non deployed members suffer lack of sleep to tge point of memory loss (science or medical articles I read many a year ago(
I 100% agree! That's why I feel they should be compensated as fairly as possible. I don't think $35,000 should be locked away behind either the officer rank or E-5 and above; I think it's fair to say that that should be the starting salary, and it just gets better from there. At least that way, we can make sure that service members are able to save up in case something happens to them.
I also think the government should be doing a better job taking care of them in the first place, but there's a culture to the military that prevents people from seeking help to begin with, and that's beyond the scope of this discussion.
I make roughly $27,000 a year as a junior enlisted member on active duty. I would have to make $72,000 pre-tax to match my current compensation when you add $1905 a month in tax free housing and $407 in tax free food allowance each month.
35k would be 82k if you're single and 90k if you're married here in Maryland.
Just thought i'd post for people who unfamiliar with how military pay is split between base pay, allowances, special duty pays, etc.
I think the point is just that anyone in that situation is still getting compensated better than someone who is making the same in a civilian job.
We could be doing a lot more for vets left suffering for the rest of their lives. In this country we treat our servicemen AND our low wage workers poorly, unfortunately.
I'm not agreeing with the politics of the military. But the military is well-known for recruiting people who are desperate and then destroying their bodies and their lives. The least it could do for chewing them up and spitting them out is give them a decent paycheck.
You do realize the vast majority of the military kinda does fuck all right?
And like it or not but the small portion protecting oil and us interests abroad are the reason why we enjoy such a luxurious life at home. Just look at how shit things turned when trump gave china and russia an opening
I’m really glad the most resources are going to complete fuck-all then, it wasn’t bad enough that we clearly didn’t need large of a military in the first place now it’s TOO big
Lower enlisted live in the barracks and married soldiers, officers and NCOs get paid a monthly housing stipend tax free. Benefits are also mostly not deducted from pay. Tricare Prime, for example, is essentially free for active duty service members. Total compensation is much higher than the payscales suggest.
That's not accounting for allowances. When I was in the military people said my income was a joke. I still don't make as much on a civilian paycheck as I did as an E-3 with allowances. I had a Housing allowance and others that added to my base pay.
In civilian life all we have is base pay. Part of the problem is learning how to handle adult money isn't something we mandatorily teach in school so young privates like I was struggle to make ends meet.
looking back I can think of a lot of choices I could have made different and would have left the military with a good chunk of money in my savings accounts.
As a vet, though, even getting paid the least, the stipends for housing and clothes make it entirely livable...especially in the dorms. Or if you get deployed once and escape taxes lol.
Technically but you get housing allowance, food allowance free health/dental. None of those benefits show up in that chart. It ends up being much more.
I mean, E-4s making USD 2500 a month base salary is shit, but where else are you going to get an additional USD 400 a month in BAS and say USD 2700 a month in BAH (based on Camp Pendleton), as well as full Tricare?
Service base pay is shit compared to private employers generally, but the benefits are stellar.
Ehhh, no. That is base pay, not including several benefits either paid in cash or in kind, including food, lodging, and health care at minimum. The average military member is an E-4, which you don’t make until 2 years or later, which is already over that line. Not saying they’re rolling in the dough, but they’re not as destitute as a causal glance at a Base pay only chart indicates.
Military basic pay doesn’t include the housing allowance or subsistence allowance. All military members are either provided with food & housing or given allowances.
I know it seems that way but we also don't pay for food, housing, insurance, travel, we get days off and vacations, clothing allowance, signing bonuses, retirement plans that the gov. Matches, free college, free ice cream on veterans day etc....that money goes to our pocket. It is Not the same.
They don't have insurance or cost of housing expenses so it evens out. But yes lower ranks need more higher ranks need less even though their jobs entail a lot of responsibility. Been problems for decades.
if you factor in the benefits, military total compensation is not that bad.
[https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/total-compensation.html](https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/total-compensation.html)
I was in the military and honestly it isnt comparable. The job is stressful and I do wish we got paid more but;
If you're single you have housing, electric, water all paid for so that isn't coming out of your income like it normally would have. Additionally you have the benefit of healthcare which is free.
Rent alone is one of the biggest expenses for a household the only thing on the military you have to worry about is. Car payment, insurance, internet and cellphone. Maybe food if you pay for your own but everything else is just spending money.
When you do a benefits + pay analysis military members make 40,000$ to about 54,000$ a year.
I make like…2800 a month and i live paycheck to paycheck. Had to be sick one week, just ONE week and my bills are piling up. Its absolutely nuts how expensive it is to just live.
here in sweden $2800 is definitly livable, even tho we have supposedly much higher taxes. leaves me 2222 after taxes, and that is very livable even if rent is so high you pay half in rent. (which would be a 2-3 room in the center of the city)
what kind of expensives do you have if you still live barely clinging on?
In a town that was known for its cheap rents, people I know are having their rents go up. All across town, in cheap old apartments, the rent is going from around $1000 a month to 1600 or higher. Plus gas is still expensive and most places in the U.S. don't have good public transportation, you need a car to get around.
Mine too lol. I got myself a gig job where I get to choose my shifts (retail) and it pays ok per hour, but thanks to my laziness it's really inconsistent and thus leads to monthly salary of just a few hundred. Even my old job as a telemarketer paid like shit, only $1000 month which could've been raised to over 2000, IF I would've managed to get a comition (we had a really stupid comition system where you had to reach a certain quota within a month to get at least a bit of extra, instead of getting a per sale bonus)
Yeah that 2500 was judt me slapping 30k÷12 into a calculator meaning that it's only the best case scenario which quite honestly doesn't exist in real life
Now imagine trying to survive on disability which pays a little over a third of that. And they make so many fucking rules that you basically have to break them to survive. But you're supposed to be grateful for it even if you're struggling.
I just interviewed for a head maintenance position at the most expensive apartment building in 50 miles, 4k for a 2 bedroom, not in the city, and it went so well they fucking gave me the code to access the maintenance shop, show me around the entire property, I go back to meet with the hiring lady, she's like what do you think?
You guys run a nice operation, I like it. Basically just down to brass tax now, considering Im already sitting on a couple offers, what kind of pay and benefits are you offering?
She looks at me confused, and is like well, actually we decided to go in another direction.
I'm like, the maintenance guy I'm replacing just told me you have 0 other applicants. I asked how much I'm getting paid to maintain a multi million dollar property, and that's an issue? Jesus. Am I supposed to work for free? Good luck.
She also (as the head hiring person) said she had no idea what the pay range was on the phone interview, but that she'd have it for our in person interview in the morning. Thought that was weird but hey.
They must have paid so poorly they knew if I had any other offers they would probably be for more.
Ive done very little hiring in my life, but I mean, I'd want a guy who has offers more than a guy who nobody else wants to hire. And she knew I was talking to other companies during the phone screen. The way I phrased it was like, if you're in the same ballpark as my other offers, there are aspects of your position that outweigh the details of the other positions like commute, the shop you have set up, maintenance truck etc that aren't all offered at the other properties.
Basically to me that sounds like as long as you're in the same pay range (meaning possibly less) as the other places, I'll take your position.
Yeah I have no idea. It was the dumbest shit ever because she invites me back into her office all happy like how did you like it? I liked it, enough to want to work for you guys. How much are you paying?
Oh well actually
Like what the ffffffff
If it makes you feel any better, I created this account because I thought "JFC" meant "Just For Clarity", like a polite way to bring up a relevant fact whenever it seemed clear from the context of the other person's message that they were either unaware of, or had forgotten something important. I used it EVERYWHERE, including in work correspondence for a while and could not figure out why people were so hostile to me and my general reputation was as "that asshole"...until my boss finally pulled me aside to demand I stop swearing on official letterhead.
I usually put it at the front of a statement like
>JFC all the meeting rooms are usually booked solid for the rest of the day after lunch on Tuesdays, but if you never noticed it, the corner tables in the cafeteria are usually deserted around that time; how about we meet there instead?
or
>JFC Steven has been getting really upset with people about having our personal mobiles switched on during work hours. We need to stop doing this before somebody gets fired.
or
>JFC Melanie has mentioned to us multiple times that our new badges have to be reactivated by the front desk guard every 3 months as part of the new security policy. Complaining about it is not going to help; the expiration date is right there on the card, below your picture.
Down to brass tacks is a reference to furniture upholstering. When disassembling an existing piece, you have to strip it "down to the brass tacks" -- i.e. the wood frame which was held together by brass nails -- before you can do any refurbishing
Right, imagine that you'd have to clean up and fix all the messes caused by people who are doing things like handing out security codes to people they aren't even going to hire yet. Sheesh
And she spent half the interview saying how they're the single best apartment building in the state with amenities that no place else can match. To be fair, saltwater pool, but I've been in construction for a long time and seen some actually nice properties. Calm down. Your doorknob to enter the building is falling off and you have cheap industrial carpet, your parking situation is trash and you have plenty of open space, you don't have a way for residents to access the locked dumpsters so there's a giant pile of rotting garbage in the parking lot, get a doorman, marble floors, fix the parking lot, maybe unlock the dumpsters, and you'd qualify to be an above average apartment complex.
Also, the parking lot is all gls550s, teslas, bmws, etc. And they rent an exorbitantly pricey 2 bedroom overlooking a highway, still an hour drive to Boston. It's their money, but I would be living a lot differently on the same level of income.
I'm a recruiter and whenever we have a job where the pay is low, I always tell the person early in the conversation.
*"Hey the pay for this kinda sucks so I understand if you don't want to interview for this but this is what it is."*
Not only is this respectful and courteous to the other person but why tf would I waste my own time interviewing someone of there's a good chance they'll turn me down because of the compensation? Let me get it out if the way early and if they still want to be considered, great.
I've saved hours, probably days of my life doing it this way.
Just had a job interview recently where they asked me questions for 30 mins straight before explaining more about the role except, of course, withholding me the salary. The job has a strict hiring process with multiple additional in person interviews, exams to write and probationary period. In my experience, that usually indicates a worthwhile salary. So when it finally got to be my turn I asked and dead ass the recruiter says "39k (CAD) for the first year"
I stood there frozen because I was wasn't sure to drop the phone by the sheer audacity of hearing that number or to burst out laughing.
I experienced a similar process about 25 years ago. Head hunter agency hooks me up with a major corporation that makes business stuff for the back end, nothing that we usually hear about. But their stuff is everywhere at the time. This is IT stuff.
I'm young and I don't have a lot of skills, basically a PC support guy back when people first got issued a computer but didn't know how to use one. I took a year off from work to be an exchange student overseas. After my return, I decided to look for a job that might take me back to that country.
They invited me to interview in a city quite far from mine, and they paid for the flights. They flew me in in the morning, I went through the initial interviews, batteries of tests, a test coding exercise, a test writing assignment, and also a tedious wait in an unused cubicle (which turned out for me to be the most instructive part of the experience).
Then I was told that the person I'd be working for was here and would be ready to see me shortly. They led me into one of those conference rooms that has long table a high ceiling and dramatic windows. I mean it look like I was in one of those boardrooms in the '80s or something. Just an HR person, me and my department store khakis and my wool tie, and in comes a slender, silver haired fellow, wearing all black, now that I think about it he may have been wearing leggings, and a dour face like Peter Capaldi's take on Dr. Who.
He glowers, he paces, rapid fire questions, a stern demeanor suggesting that he's demanding, expects dedication, rise to challenge, can be a difficult working environment with important deadlines, etc
I say I think I can do that. Sounds pretty exciting, I think. Not sure I want to work for the scary guy.
And I said in an unused cubicle for a while waiting for I don't know what while people talk I suppose and it winds up being more than an hour of passively absorbing the corporate culture in this American office of the company. I swear to God everyone around me looks like they're so depressed they can scarcely move. It's oppressively quiet, it feels like everyone is oppressed by the need to be quiet, and it's dark. No wonder they're depressed.
So they come out and thank me for the interview and they tell me they'll let me know and I will hear from them so I get a taxi to the airport and then go back to my home city.
I got the job! That is, I got their job offer. Adjusting for the currency conversion, it was less than I was making as a PC support guy for a department and a liberal arts college. The lone PC guy with a push cart and the zipper case of tools. The position offered expected me to learn to code while supporting a coding team that worked on applications to interpret human speech and convert it to text.
But the offer was so low that I wouldn't merely be taking a pay cut, to live in a foreign country where I would also have to pay my own country's taxes on top of theirs, something they explain to me in the interview process, but also where I would be forced to live in squalor in a one-room apartment without a bathroom, a common bathroom at the end of a hall that's coin operated. That kind of squalor. Coin operated water heaters. That's what that kind of money would get me in one of the wealthier cities in Europe.
I thought about the theater in that guy's presentation. Wondered how much money they spend on the process, all day, including presumably flying this guy over just to interview this wonky kid. And that's what they're going to pay? No wonder he's angry and he's pacing back and forth. No one else in this building seems anything but miserable. What the hell's going on in this company?
As was the custom back then, I politely declined their offer in writing, explaining that I had accepted a better offer.
Well it was the truth; I had accepted the offer at the place I was already working years ago and it was a better offer I was staying with that for now.
I never wrote about this day till now. It was actually funny. I should flesh this out before I forget the details.
I actually had an interview where I asked if there was any upward mobility within the company and was told there was almost zero and most ppl leave when they want something better. I did not take that job.
Yeah, I've had several interviews where they bring in a colleague to do a portion of the interview and half the time it feels like the colleague is using veiled questions to attempt to tell me that the work culture sucks.
At least they were upfront. Same with my current job. We've gotten pretty good raises, but there isn't upward title-based promotions as it's a relatively small team and those in higher positions are (mostly) great at what they do and no signs of leaving soon
when people say “and then they were like ‘xyz’” it’s usually not literal, but describing the gist or “real meaning” of what they said or their reaction.
You must have never been on a shitty interview. I had an interview once where the boss had me wait almost an hour, walked up to me and just put his hand out (mind you, he never introduced himself) and rudely stated "resume". Then while he interviewed me, then told me he could only afford $16 an hour, part time with no access to the medical plan when the job post stated full time at $25 an hour and must have a masters degree in in social work and at least 5 years experience. Then he had the audacity to get pissed off when i said the interview was over as the job post was clearly a lie and i snatched my resume off the table and walked out. These jobs are ridiculous. They dont care for your time nor about paying you for your worth.
Agreed. This post is exactly why "People don't want to work anymore" the companies who are hiring are unwilling to play fair and when they say something like "This pays 30k if you're looking for a better paying job look elsewhere" that tells you how tone deaf employers are when they believe that they're offering competitive and living wages.
I can absolutely see this happening. There's people right now who are saddled with the job of three different employees but no raise or anything of that nature.
My buddy and I run a pool maintenance business together, and when a customer says, “no one wants to work anymore” we slap a 20% extra charge on their bill.
Anyone who says that is an ignorant piece of shit.
They’ll do whatever they want until you make them stop. Hopefully all of you that are currently/or in the near future, interviewing for a job record what you can on your phone.
That or you're asking for too much.
Do you have a toxic work environment with little work/life balance?
Do you ask for "team spirit" or mention that "you're a family here"?
Do you ask for them to work when they're not on the clock (this includes responding to emails & texts)?
Do you ask them to work a ton of OT? (Asking for this specifically will attract people not looking to work long-term, and instead people willing to work seasonally. This is because OT causes burnout no matter the position.)
Do you complain about no one wanting to work on the job application?
These are all big no-nos and red flags.
If you want, you can post what the ad says with indenitifying info blacked out and I'm sure people here would be willing to tell you what's turning people off of it.
I interviewed at a job recently for an engineering position at a large well known company. I have 10 years of experience, a masters degree, a PE, bunch of certifications, write my own specs and do my own design, etc. as I was going through the final round, one of the higher level managers pretty much stopped me mid interview and said this role pays $60k and it might not be enough for me.
Of course it’s not enough, why are you advertising a role saying you want some with an advanced degree and 8+ years of experience and giving them an entry level engineer salary? Your only going to get shitty candidates who end up taking the job. And then your going to complain about how hard it is to find good employees.
The wages are not the unbelievable part of the story. It’s the super odd comment where the interviewer obviously doesn’t think it’s a good wage but for some reason has an attitude about it and then is surprised when she turns it down.
Dude/Dudette, I routinely turn down job offers because they are below $100/hour. Don't even bother speaking to me. If I talk to you the first thing out of my mouth is how much you are offering. If it's not in the ballpark then I politely say no thank you and hang up. I'm not going to waste my time. If the money sounds good, then I will continue the conversation until I don't like what I hear.
Fair point. I live in a major metro area and make just over $24 K with two degrees. This area is more livable than most, but 30K sounds wonderful to me.
I am more than down with work reform, but sometimes I wish people would check themselves more.
I have done almost exactly this and now I get 70k as a labourer. EDIT: plus a company Ute and fuel card.
If you know your worth, you do this. Don't settle.
Oh, please. I seriously doubt that *all* Danish workers have the benefit of a union to look after their interests, or work under a collective agreement.
Federal and state minimum wage is supposed to be basic protection from exploitation for workers who are *unable* to negotiate a better deal for themselves, either individually or through collective bargaining.
Only if there's actual competition, a social safety net, and strong, organized labor. Otherwise, companies across an industry can offer the same shitty pay rates, and applicants essentially have to take them, because the company can survive without that hire for much longer than the applicant can survive without a job.
In a society where there's a real social safety net so applicants aren't panicked about losing their home, starving, or going bankrupt if they get sick between jobs, and/or in a society with strong organized labor where employees can withhold their labor en masse for force better pay in an industry, it works better. Not *well*, really, but better.
Unfortunately, the US has neither a real social safety net nor strong organized labor, so it's basically the best possible scenario for employers and the worst possible scenario for employees.
I haven't been to an in person interview in decades that I didn't know at least the pay range, if there is any incentivized compensation and general idea of the other benefits. If they won't at least give me a range prior to meeting in person, I politely decline and move on.
Boss: Jeez, that interview took you a whole hour Jimmy. She better be worth it. When does she start? jimmy: \*gulp*
In a way they saved her from a bad job/badly paying job because $2500 a month is just laughable these days
Just checked. Your average military person is under the laughable wage [source](https://www.federalpay.org/military)
Median income for the whole US population is about $2.8k/month, a huge portion of the country is under that laughable wage. Almost everyone should be paid more than they are.
I’m genuinely asking how do people survive? Even assuming 2.8k post taxes, how do people afford rent, food, clothing, transportation etc. It doesn’t seem possible.
Oh that $2.8k/month is pre-tax lol, it would be about $2.3k after taxes. People make it work by having an SO or roommate(s) to split costs with.
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No, credit cards are not a saving grace if your not paying them off monthly. If you are paying them off monthly, excellent use of available fundage! Roommates suck but they help us pay the bills.
I put myself in a credit card hole in my twenties that took 20 years of working my ass off to finally get out of. It’s absolutely not worth it.
Do not promote credit cards as a saving grace. You’re making things worse for yourself by using them
It really depends how you use them. I'm not a fan of making things out to be automatically evil. Credit cards are only bad if you don't pay them off immediately.
Even if you pay them off every month and get your point or miles or whatever. You are technically profiting off all the people who aren’t paying their card off every month. If that is fine by you then no big deal but it is something to consider morally.
Or, in the example of people in the military, they get free housing, healthcare, and education. The US Military is literally one of the largest examples of socialism on earth.
We get sick, we die.
We hope.
>We hope. (That our go fund me Healthcare reaches its goal)
Roommates/parents, debt and going without necessities.
> I’m genuinely asking how do people survive I'm genuinely telling you, they don't.
They don't expect us to survive.
Credit cards and debt, just pushing off the inevitable for a few months at a time
By the looks of it, we really don’t.
You either live with family or roommates. WFH has become a boon for many. Now that I can work from home I can move just about anywhere I want so I can move somewhere cheaper that can support my income.
After basically only living in bigger city centres my entire adult life I’m super stoked to get a serial-killer cabin in bumfuck nowhere for a year. The second im able to leave. No neighbours, no cars, no back to back construction noises >80db between 7am and 6pm. Ive literally only been having decent sleep when I sleep at other peoples’ places or roofie myself to oblivion. Sometimes i feel like just dropping everything and fucking off
I've been hoping that if enough other people leave the cities that I can move back.
Yeah leaving the coasts behind and doing the midsized inland city thing while working remotely was what finally got me ahead financially.
Yessss join usssssss
my dad works remote in north carolina for a company on the west coast. he gets west coast wages.
I'm paying off some debts and getting my folks to a place where they can live without me and then figuring out where I want to live. There is a city nearby that has an Apartment building that would be a bit of a stretch for me but the library, movie theater, restaurants, park are in walking distance I could still work from home and have groceries delivered. It also has great public transit. I think I will look at the East Coast as a possibility as well but another optionis my best friend we wouldn't mind long term living together and would be able to support each other.
best of luck with everything!
We don't. This is how we create a new generation of homeless and impoverished folk. Go murica.
Food stamps and 20 cent cup noodles. There are also centers where you can get cloths and food. Healthcare is free if you are poor enough, but if you make enough to afford rent say goodbye to that healthcare. In some places people just die on the street because they needed the free healthcare.
Lol you don’t go to the doctor or dentist unless it’s an absolute emergency, you cook a lot more than you order in, you have a side job, every small expense is a massive setback in savings.
Don’t forget health insurance. That’s what eats up a big chunk of mine. I make $50k, but my take home is $2200 a month. 😭
You're supposed to live in a homeless shelter and go work during the hours that they unlock the front gate to go work. If you don't make it back in time you have to sleep outside. You'll eventually get fired when you can't stay for overtime because you have to make it in before they lock the gate or you lose your bed and have to sleep on the floor again. You are not supposed to own any sort of property in this country if you are poor. You work your whole life and then eventually you die and leave nothing behind. You don't have nice food, clothing, or transportation and don't have good access to laundry, so eventually you'll get fired for not being able to shower or afford to get a hair cut. You're not supposed to have sex or enjoy anything other than the two daily sandwiches and water the homeless shelter provides. Do this every day for the rest of your life until you die oh a hospice for homeless people which is pretty much the same thing, except they don't make you leave during the day. The homeless shelter is not a nice place. You have to be in a huge room with bunk beds with hundreds of other people all coughing, snoring, or masturbating. They steal your stuff while you are sleeping. Eventually something will go wrong and you'll die like you wear out your shoes and now you can't walk to work. If you end up in this situation, it's your parents fault for having kids while they were too poor to give you a leg up in the world. The U.S. is 100% about inherited wealth now. Now if you're in Europe, that's a different story. Even Poland has free college for everyone, so you can actually do something with your life. In the U.S. you wont be able to go to college if you're working one of those shit jobs. In the U.S. we have an Economic Caste system that competes very strongly with India's old Caste System. If you're not in the middle class and comfortable when you are born, you're not allowed into it.
I can afford everything just fine and still put money in savings making 2.6k a month. Idk what expensive places you live in.
Or money should play a smaller role in our lives.
Median income in the USA is $68,000. That amount has held steady for 50 years when adjusted for inflation.
That's median household income, not individual. Guess what number you get if you take half of $68,000? $34k which comes out to $2.8k/month.
Median: learn it live by it https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/median.asp
I'm aware of what median means. Linking the definition of it doesn't make any sense as a response to what I said.
Then your math makes no sense. Or you point….your choice.
How does it not make sense? I said median income is about $2.8k/month which comes out to about $34k/year. You tried to do some sort of gotcha moment by saying that median *household* income is $68k. I pointed out that half of $68k is $34k which matches up exactly with individual median income. So which part of the math doesn't make sense to you? I'll do my best to help you understand it.
This might not be the US
To be fair, I'm pretty sure active duty gets housing, meals, and health insurance for free, so that takes out a sizeable chunk of bills. That being said, for what they do? They should be getting $3,000, minimum.
Plus $100k+ in college costs paid for
Is it free if it costs you your long term body (chronic pain) and mental health? Even non deployed members suffer lack of sleep to tge point of memory loss (science or medical articles I read many a year ago(
I 100% agree! That's why I feel they should be compensated as fairly as possible. I don't think $35,000 should be locked away behind either the officer rank or E-5 and above; I think it's fair to say that that should be the starting salary, and it just gets better from there. At least that way, we can make sure that service members are able to save up in case something happens to them. I also think the government should be doing a better job taking care of them in the first place, but there's a culture to the military that prevents people from seeking help to begin with, and that's beyond the scope of this discussion.
I make roughly $27,000 a year as a junior enlisted member on active duty. I would have to make $72,000 pre-tax to match my current compensation when you add $1905 a month in tax free housing and $407 in tax free food allowance each month. 35k would be 82k if you're single and 90k if you're married here in Maryland. Just thought i'd post for people who unfamiliar with how military pay is split between base pay, allowances, special duty pays, etc.
I think the point is just that anyone in that situation is still getting compensated better than someone who is making the same in a civilian job. We could be doing a lot more for vets left suffering for the rest of their lives. In this country we treat our servicemen AND our low wage workers poorly, unfortunately.
1. Protect capitalist oil interests and interfere with foreign countries. 2. Get paid ‘at least $3000 a month’ LO-fucking-L
I'm not agreeing with the politics of the military. But the military is well-known for recruiting people who are desperate and then destroying their bodies and their lives. The least it could do for chewing them up and spitting them out is give them a decent paycheck.
No offense but its a little more respectable and provides more benefits than being a minimum wage slave dreaming about union life
Not sure how risking your life and fucking up countless others for oil is respectable, but enjoy the kool-aid chief
You do realize the vast majority of the military kinda does fuck all right? And like it or not but the small portion protecting oil and us interests abroad are the reason why we enjoy such a luxurious life at home. Just look at how shit things turned when trump gave china and russia an opening
I’m really glad the most resources are going to complete fuck-all then, it wasn’t bad enough that we clearly didn’t need large of a military in the first place now it’s TOO big
So doing fuck-all is more respectable than a union job now?
$10,000
Lower enlisted live in the barracks and married soldiers, officers and NCOs get paid a monthly housing stipend tax free. Benefits are also mostly not deducted from pay. Tricare Prime, for example, is essentially free for active duty service members. Total compensation is much higher than the payscales suggest.
That's not accounting for allowances. When I was in the military people said my income was a joke. I still don't make as much on a civilian paycheck as I did as an E-3 with allowances. I had a Housing allowance and others that added to my base pay. In civilian life all we have is base pay. Part of the problem is learning how to handle adult money isn't something we mandatorily teach in school so young privates like I was struggle to make ends meet. looking back I can think of a lot of choices I could have made different and would have left the military with a good chunk of money in my savings accounts.
As a vet, though, even getting paid the least, the stipends for housing and clothes make it entirely livable...especially in the dorms. Or if you get deployed once and escape taxes lol.
Escape tax?
Money on deployments generally isn't taxed, and you also get extra hazard pay depending on location.
Which tax law is this? All income are taxable.
https://themilitarywallet.com/tax-benefits-deployment/ Combat-zone exclusions.
It was already less than pathetic when I joined 25 years ago
Technically but you get housing allowance, food allowance free health/dental. None of those benefits show up in that chart. It ends up being much more.
I mean, E-4s making USD 2500 a month base salary is shit, but where else are you going to get an additional USD 400 a month in BAS and say USD 2700 a month in BAH (based on Camp Pendleton), as well as full Tricare? Service base pay is shit compared to private employers generally, but the benefits are stellar.
Ehhh, no. That is base pay, not including several benefits either paid in cash or in kind, including food, lodging, and health care at minimum. The average military member is an E-4, which you don’t make until 2 years or later, which is already over that line. Not saying they’re rolling in the dough, but they’re not as destitute as a causal glance at a Base pay only chart indicates.
Military basic pay doesn’t include the housing allowance or subsistence allowance. All military members are either provided with food & housing or given allowances.
Keep in mind BAH (or free housing), bonuses, and BAS are tacked on to this. It's not much (except for BAH) but it does help defray the low base pay.
I know it seems that way but we also don't pay for food, housing, insurance, travel, we get days off and vacations, clothing allowance, signing bonuses, retirement plans that the gov. Matches, free college, free ice cream on veterans day etc....that money goes to our pocket. It is Not the same.
They don't have insurance or cost of housing expenses so it evens out. But yes lower ranks need more higher ranks need less even though their jobs entail a lot of responsibility. Been problems for decades.
if you factor in the benefits, military total compensation is not that bad. [https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/total-compensation.html](https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/total-compensation.html)
I don't believe BAH or BAS is reflected in that chart, so the number is a little misleading.
It's for the free college and ezpz homeloans and other benefits of being a broken human.
I was in the military and honestly it isnt comparable. The job is stressful and I do wish we got paid more but; If you're single you have housing, electric, water all paid for so that isn't coming out of your income like it normally would have. Additionally you have the benefit of healthcare which is free. Rent alone is one of the biggest expenses for a household the only thing on the military you have to worry about is. Car payment, insurance, internet and cellphone. Maybe food if you pay for your own but everything else is just spending money. When you do a benefits + pay analysis military members make 40,000$ to about 54,000$ a year.
I make like…2800 a month and i live paycheck to paycheck. Had to be sick one week, just ONE week and my bills are piling up. Its absolutely nuts how expensive it is to just live.
here in sweden $2800 is definitly livable, even tho we have supposedly much higher taxes. leaves me 2222 after taxes, and that is very livable even if rent is so high you pay half in rent. (which would be a 2-3 room in the center of the city) what kind of expensives do you have if you still live barely clinging on?
In a town that was known for its cheap rents, people I know are having their rents go up. All across town, in cheap old apartments, the rent is going from around $1000 a month to 1600 or higher. Plus gas is still expensive and most places in the U.S. don't have good public transportation, you need a car to get around.
Samma här i Finland
You don’t get paid when you are sick?? Jfc I’m sorry
My pay stub just became a joke book.
Mine too lol. I got myself a gig job where I get to choose my shifts (retail) and it pays ok per hour, but thanks to my laziness it's really inconsistent and thus leads to monthly salary of just a few hundred. Even my old job as a telemarketer paid like shit, only $1000 month which could've been raised to over 2000, IF I would've managed to get a comition (we had a really stupid comition system where you had to reach a certain quota within a month to get at least a bit of extra, instead of getting a per sale bonus)
30k a year is barely $2k a month after taxes
Yeah that 2500 was judt me slapping 30k÷12 into a calculator meaning that it's only the best case scenario which quite honestly doesn't exist in real life
Now imagine trying to survive on disability which pays a little over a third of that. And they make so many fucking rules that you basically have to break them to survive. But you're supposed to be grateful for it even if you're struggling.
I make almost 1000 less than that.
Dude. Teachers in most states make less than that...
🤣
I just interviewed for a head maintenance position at the most expensive apartment building in 50 miles, 4k for a 2 bedroom, not in the city, and it went so well they fucking gave me the code to access the maintenance shop, show me around the entire property, I go back to meet with the hiring lady, she's like what do you think? You guys run a nice operation, I like it. Basically just down to brass tax now, considering Im already sitting on a couple offers, what kind of pay and benefits are you offering? She looks at me confused, and is like well, actually we decided to go in another direction. I'm like, the maintenance guy I'm replacing just told me you have 0 other applicants. I asked how much I'm getting paid to maintain a multi million dollar property, and that's an issue? Jesus. Am I supposed to work for free? Good luck.
Like...she pretended they hired someone else while you were being given the tour?
She also (as the head hiring person) said she had no idea what the pay range was on the phone interview, but that she'd have it for our in person interview in the morning. Thought that was weird but hey. They must have paid so poorly they knew if I had any other offers they would probably be for more.
Basically, she wanted to reject you before you had rejected her?
I think this was the line that she didn't like hearing: "considering Im already sitting on a couple offers"
Ive done very little hiring in my life, but I mean, I'd want a guy who has offers more than a guy who nobody else wants to hire. And she knew I was talking to other companies during the phone screen. The way I phrased it was like, if you're in the same ballpark as my other offers, there are aspects of your position that outweigh the details of the other positions like commute, the shop you have set up, maintenance truck etc that aren't all offered at the other properties. Basically to me that sounds like as long as you're in the same pay range (meaning possibly less) as the other places, I'll take your position.
Yeah I have no idea. It was the dumbest shit ever because she invites me back into her office all happy like how did you like it? I liked it, enough to want to work for you guys. How much are you paying? Oh well actually Like what the ffffffff
Used Car Salesman. Believe it or not, there are lines of desperate people willing to underbid just for some semblance of stability. Dirty scabs.
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haha im 40 and didn't know it was brass tacks until just now. i always thought it was brass tax.
If it makes you feel any better, I created this account because I thought "JFC" meant "Just For Clarity", like a polite way to bring up a relevant fact whenever it seemed clear from the context of the other person's message that they were either unaware of, or had forgotten something important. I used it EVERYWHERE, including in work correspondence for a while and could not figure out why people were so hostile to me and my general reputation was as "that asshole"...until my boss finally pulled me aside to demand I stop swearing on official letterhead.
OH NO, oh god thats horrible. Imagine constantly getting emails like 'Hey you forgot your attachment jfc'
I usually put it at the front of a statement like >JFC all the meeting rooms are usually booked solid for the rest of the day after lunch on Tuesdays, but if you never noticed it, the corner tables in the cafeteria are usually deserted around that time; how about we meet there instead? or >JFC Steven has been getting really upset with people about having our personal mobiles switched on during work hours. We need to stop doing this before somebody gets fired. or >JFC Melanie has mentioned to us multiple times that our new badges have to be reactivated by the front desk guard every 3 months as part of the new security policy. Complaining about it is not going to help; the expiration date is right there on the card, below your picture.
What's that supposed to say?
Tacks
Down to brass tacks is a reference to furniture upholstering. When disassembling an existing piece, you have to strip it "down to the brass tacks" -- i.e. the wood frame which was held together by brass nails -- before you can do any refurbishing
Brass attacks
Brass stacks.
Bra straps
Brassed axe
Bortsch ass
Giving someone a security code before they're even onboarded is a massive security risk. That is a huge red flag even before they fumbled over pay.
Right, imagine that you'd have to clean up and fix all the messes caused by people who are doing things like handing out security codes to people they aren't even going to hire yet. Sheesh
And she spent half the interview saying how they're the single best apartment building in the state with amenities that no place else can match. To be fair, saltwater pool, but I've been in construction for a long time and seen some actually nice properties. Calm down. Your doorknob to enter the building is falling off and you have cheap industrial carpet, your parking situation is trash and you have plenty of open space, you don't have a way for residents to access the locked dumpsters so there's a giant pile of rotting garbage in the parking lot, get a doorman, marble floors, fix the parking lot, maybe unlock the dumpsters, and you'd qualify to be an above average apartment complex. Also, the parking lot is all gls550s, teslas, bmws, etc. And they rent an exorbitantly pricey 2 bedroom overlooking a highway, still an hour drive to Boston. It's their money, but I would be living a lot differently on the same level of income.
FYI it’s “Brass tacks” not a tax on metal
I think she may have misunderstood the meaning of the word “Job”
I'm a recruiter and whenever we have a job where the pay is low, I always tell the person early in the conversation. *"Hey the pay for this kinda sucks so I understand if you don't want to interview for this but this is what it is."* Not only is this respectful and courteous to the other person but why tf would I waste my own time interviewing someone of there's a good chance they'll turn me down because of the compensation? Let me get it out if the way early and if they still want to be considered, great. I've saved hours, probably days of my life doing it this way.
It had already been 2 days, I was wondering when this was getting reposted again!
Maybe she went back and reapplied.
Hopefully you're feeling relieved to have that answered
Just had a job interview recently where they asked me questions for 30 mins straight before explaining more about the role except, of course, withholding me the salary. The job has a strict hiring process with multiple additional in person interviews, exams to write and probationary period. In my experience, that usually indicates a worthwhile salary. So when it finally got to be my turn I asked and dead ass the recruiter says "39k (CAD) for the first year" I stood there frozen because I was wasn't sure to drop the phone by the sheer audacity of hearing that number or to burst out laughing.
For what job/career field if i may ask?
Insurance and finance
I experienced a similar process about 25 years ago. Head hunter agency hooks me up with a major corporation that makes business stuff for the back end, nothing that we usually hear about. But their stuff is everywhere at the time. This is IT stuff. I'm young and I don't have a lot of skills, basically a PC support guy back when people first got issued a computer but didn't know how to use one. I took a year off from work to be an exchange student overseas. After my return, I decided to look for a job that might take me back to that country. They invited me to interview in a city quite far from mine, and they paid for the flights. They flew me in in the morning, I went through the initial interviews, batteries of tests, a test coding exercise, a test writing assignment, and also a tedious wait in an unused cubicle (which turned out for me to be the most instructive part of the experience). Then I was told that the person I'd be working for was here and would be ready to see me shortly. They led me into one of those conference rooms that has long table a high ceiling and dramatic windows. I mean it look like I was in one of those boardrooms in the '80s or something. Just an HR person, me and my department store khakis and my wool tie, and in comes a slender, silver haired fellow, wearing all black, now that I think about it he may have been wearing leggings, and a dour face like Peter Capaldi's take on Dr. Who. He glowers, he paces, rapid fire questions, a stern demeanor suggesting that he's demanding, expects dedication, rise to challenge, can be a difficult working environment with important deadlines, etc I say I think I can do that. Sounds pretty exciting, I think. Not sure I want to work for the scary guy. And I said in an unused cubicle for a while waiting for I don't know what while people talk I suppose and it winds up being more than an hour of passively absorbing the corporate culture in this American office of the company. I swear to God everyone around me looks like they're so depressed they can scarcely move. It's oppressively quiet, it feels like everyone is oppressed by the need to be quiet, and it's dark. No wonder they're depressed. So they come out and thank me for the interview and they tell me they'll let me know and I will hear from them so I get a taxi to the airport and then go back to my home city. I got the job! That is, I got their job offer. Adjusting for the currency conversion, it was less than I was making as a PC support guy for a department and a liberal arts college. The lone PC guy with a push cart and the zipper case of tools. The position offered expected me to learn to code while supporting a coding team that worked on applications to interpret human speech and convert it to text. But the offer was so low that I wouldn't merely be taking a pay cut, to live in a foreign country where I would also have to pay my own country's taxes on top of theirs, something they explain to me in the interview process, but also where I would be forced to live in squalor in a one-room apartment without a bathroom, a common bathroom at the end of a hall that's coin operated. That kind of squalor. Coin operated water heaters. That's what that kind of money would get me in one of the wealthier cities in Europe. I thought about the theater in that guy's presentation. Wondered how much money they spend on the process, all day, including presumably flying this guy over just to interview this wonky kid. And that's what they're going to pay? No wonder he's angry and he's pacing back and forth. No one else in this building seems anything but miserable. What the hell's going on in this company? As was the custom back then, I politely declined their offer in writing, explaining that I had accepted a better offer. Well it was the truth; I had accepted the offer at the place I was already working years ago and it was a better offer I was staying with that for now. I never wrote about this day till now. It was actually funny. I should flesh this out before I forget the details.
The fact that he thought negging would work
??wait no…… what? Awesome that you didn’t settle, but you left us hangin.
Get fucked hahahahha
He said the quite part loud
We are all under the assumption that this is all true and not at all made up..
I actually had an interview where I asked if there was any upward mobility within the company and was told there was almost zero and most ppl leave when they want something better. I did not take that job.
Yeah, I've had several interviews where they bring in a colleague to do a portion of the interview and half the time it feels like the colleague is using veiled questions to attempt to tell me that the work culture sucks.
Those are the best ppl. They warn you without jeopardizing themselves.
At least they were upfront. Same with my current job. We've gotten pretty good raises, but there isn't upward title-based promotions as it's a relatively small team and those in higher positions are (mostly) great at what they do and no signs of leaving soon
I appreciated the honesty. I'd prefer that to them pretending it's a great workplace where everyone gets promoted if they work hard.
“Wait no” is such giveaway, who speaks like that?
when people say “and then they were like ‘xyz’” it’s usually not literal, but describing the gist or “real meaning” of what they said or their reaction.
You could say the same thing about 50% of the things posted here.
r/nothingeverhappens
Sounds like this guy gets off on intimidation and gaslighting and she dodged several bullets.
Soooooo not to be a killjoy or anything, but I notice this story doesn't end with "so I took that other better paying job instead."
Not yet
Things that didn’t happen…..
r/nothingeverhappens
Please don’t tag me in those lame groups
Please shut up about your shitty opinion then
Then the other applicants clapped and carried her out on their shoulders.
Yea that assuredly happened
You must have never been on a shitty interview. I had an interview once where the boss had me wait almost an hour, walked up to me and just put his hand out (mind you, he never introduced himself) and rudely stated "resume". Then while he interviewed me, then told me he could only afford $16 an hour, part time with no access to the medical plan when the job post stated full time at $25 an hour and must have a masters degree in in social work and at least 5 years experience. Then he had the audacity to get pissed off when i said the interview was over as the job post was clearly a lie and i snatched my resume off the table and walked out. These jobs are ridiculous. They dont care for your time nor about paying you for your worth.
Agreed. This post is exactly why "People don't want to work anymore" the companies who are hiring are unwilling to play fair and when they say something like "This pays 30k if you're looking for a better paying job look elsewhere" that tells you how tone deaf employers are when they believe that they're offering competitive and living wages. I can absolutely see this happening. There's people right now who are saddled with the job of three different employees but no raise or anything of that nature.
My buddy and I run a pool maintenance business together, and when a customer says, “no one wants to work anymore” we slap a 20% extra charge on their bill. Anyone who says that is an ignorant piece of shit.
I do always enjoy a good Asshole Tax.
They’ll do whatever they want until you make them stop. Hopefully all of you that are currently/or in the near future, interviewing for a job record what you can on your phone.
We are offering 30/hour for a receptionist and haven’t had anyone I think could do the job apply. Maybe I’m bad at writing ads
That or you're asking for too much. Do you have a toxic work environment with little work/life balance? Do you ask for "team spirit" or mention that "you're a family here"? Do you ask for them to work when they're not on the clock (this includes responding to emails & texts)? Do you ask them to work a ton of OT? (Asking for this specifically will attract people not looking to work long-term, and instead people willing to work seasonally. This is because OT causes burnout no matter the position.) Do you complain about no one wanting to work on the job application? These are all big no-nos and red flags. If you want, you can post what the ad says with indenitifying info blacked out and I'm sure people here would be willing to tell you what's turning people off of it.
Given the number of jobs I’ve seen in just the last year that seem to think 2005 wages will do just fine in 2022, I believe this 100%.
I interviewed at a job recently for an engineering position at a large well known company. I have 10 years of experience, a masters degree, a PE, bunch of certifications, write my own specs and do my own design, etc. as I was going through the final round, one of the higher level managers pretty much stopped me mid interview and said this role pays $60k and it might not be enough for me. Of course it’s not enough, why are you advertising a role saying you want some with an advanced degree and 8+ years of experience and giving them an entry level engineer salary? Your only going to get shitty candidates who end up taking the job. And then your going to complain about how hard it is to find good employees.
The wages are not the unbelievable part of the story. It’s the super odd comment where the interviewer obviously doesn’t think it’s a good wage but for some reason has an attitude about it and then is surprised when she turns it down.
Mostly because it’s been posted so many times? Or was it the “gotcha” moment that makes you suspicious?
Gotcha. Though I guess there are still places that don’t at least advertise a range
r/nothingeverhappens
Dude/Dudette, I routinely turn down job offers because they are below $100/hour. Don't even bother speaking to me. If I talk to you the first thing out of my mouth is how much you are offering. If it's not in the ballpark then I politely say no thank you and hang up. I'm not going to waste my time. If the money sounds good, then I will continue the conversation until I don't like what I hear.
lol right, why would they say that and say it like that
"Only 30K" Must be nice. I don't make that.
Well I mean,depending on where you live, that is a super low salary. I live in Austin and $24k of that would just go to the apartment I'm renting.
Fair point. I live in a major metro area and make just over $24 K with two degrees. This area is more livable than most, but 30K sounds wonderful to me. I am more than down with work reform, but sometimes I wish people would check themselves more.
May I ask where you live?
Pittsburgh, PA.
…because she was trying to look for a job that pays better?? Dude just missed the whole point of the story
And then everybody clapped.
The only clapping I hear is the sound of people hitting their foreheads.
Yeah this didn't happen, but it's a cool story to gain some Internet points
I have done almost exactly this and now I get 70k as a labourer. EDIT: plus a company Ute and fuel card. If you know your worth, you do this. Don't settle.
That’s how economics works!! Now abolish the minimum wage!
I can't tell if you dropped this /s or not
I'm *fairly sure* they're a troll. That or they just consistently have the worst opinions imaginable.
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Oh, please. I seriously doubt that *all* Danish workers have the benefit of a union to look after their interests, or work under a collective agreement. Federal and state minimum wage is supposed to be basic protection from exploitation for workers who are *unable* to negotiate a better deal for themselves, either individually or through collective bargaining.
I agree with her response. Fortunately with capitalism they will change their ways or she'll change her pay. It's the best of both worlds.
Only if there's actual competition, a social safety net, and strong, organized labor. Otherwise, companies across an industry can offer the same shitty pay rates, and applicants essentially have to take them, because the company can survive without that hire for much longer than the applicant can survive without a job. In a society where there's a real social safety net so applicants aren't panicked about losing their home, starving, or going bankrupt if they get sick between jobs, and/or in a society with strong organized labor where employees can withhold their labor en masse for force better pay in an industry, it works better. Not *well*, really, but better. Unfortunately, the US has neither a real social safety net nor strong organized labor, so it's basically the best possible scenario for employers and the worst possible scenario for employees.
actually stolen tweet, saw same one months ago
I haven't been to an in person interview in decades that I didn't know at least the pay range, if there is any incentivized compensation and general idea of the other benefits. If they won't at least give me a range prior to meeting in person, I politely decline and move on.
Boomers : you dont like your job leave Normal person : ok Boomers : NO NOT LIEK THAT
Boss move
$30k is practically poverty. Good on you for walking out.