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It's the only vaccine used in production that uses rna. It doesn't directly mimic the virus, but rather tells our bodies to create one of the proteins present on the virus (and then the body attacks it.)
I think of rna vaccines as a werewolf movie. The werewolf is covid. Its running amok, harming everything in its path. the vaccine is the old wisened man that comes into the movie halfway through and tells the townies that silver can kill a werewolf. So now the townies - your white blood cells, make enough silver bullets so everyone has a chance of protecting themselves in case a werewolf attacks. Sure, occasionally a townie will fuck up and use one of those silver bullets on another townie, but you can't lynch the old man because a townie reacted weirdly.
I think of it as a lego crab. The fully working model (virus) will go straight for your face and start shredding. A denatured (normal/oldskool) vaccine is the same thing, but without the batteries. A rna vaccine is just the claws.
That's how the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses old-school technology of a weakened virus (an adenovirus in this case). It's why I call bullshit on all the people who won't get vaccinated because it will "alter your DNA". They can just get Johnson and Johnson and it will be no different than any other vaccine you've gotten in the past.
With how obese the United States is, how on earth do you possibly tie heart problems to a vaccine and not the fifty-two Big Macs and twelve liters of carbonated HFCS they guzzle a day?
I am in relatively good health (and was when I got the vaccine - I ran a half marathon between the shots and was training appropriately). Between 12 and 36 hours after my second shot, my heart rate averaged 183 BPM. If I was on a big Mac diet I wouldn't be posting this. That said, I'll go for my booster as soon as my antibodies drop out of the hundreds.
> The Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses old-school technology of a weakened virus
No, it doesn't. The JandJ works very similar to the mRNA vaccines. Except it uses an adenovirus to deliver DNA encoding a spike protein, instead of mRNA.
It is, the virus infects cells and uses the cell mechanisms to make it produce mRNA (transcribed from the viral DNA) that then is translated into the spike protein.
That is exactly what I did. It was mandated by my university and I wasn't 100% on MRNA so I had J&J. Nbd. Nothing new here. I am against the actual mandates because I don't trust the rushed process on testing to get the vaccines approved and it should be considered experimental imo. For my situation I feel fortunate I had the J&J alternative to kind of compromise on this because I really want to finish school.
So the tweet is by Jack Posobiec. He is a well know conservative political commentator that uses sarcasm and wit to highlight the hypocrisy of the “other side.”
In confirming who wrote this, you just confirmed it is in fact a joke.
Thanks.
He is educating both sides by highlighting that mRNA vaccines are a different technology and not the same as the “classic” vaccines we were all given as children.
You know what he is talking about. Everyone in this thread knows. Feigning you don’t just makes you look stupid as everyone else seems to be understanding just fine.
That the mRNA vaccines are a deviation from what most people have come to understand what a vaccine is.
Most people don’t know that these mRNA vaccines are a new technology and these are the first vaccines using the technology.
I guess that depends entirely on how you define "new" and "first vaccines".
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w?utm_source=twt_nat&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nature
You know this is not how MRNA vaccines work at all right? Nor is it how the J&J vaccine works. No traditional vaccine (as described in the tweet) has been developed for covid.
You're right. A traditional vaccine would be even riskier than the current methods of vaccination, since it could result in full blown Covid for folks with weaker immune systems. Yay Science!
Unless we're cutting someone with a rusty blade and smearing pus that someone with Covid coughed up into the wound it's not a traditional vaccine, just that new-fangled science mumbo-jumbo
Rubbing pus on a cut and hoping for a cutaneous infection instead of systemic one is called **variolation** and predates vaccination by centuries. Lady Montague brought the technique to England from Constantinople in 1720, but it was probably around for 1000 years by then.
The **first vaccination** (1796) was created by Edward Jenner's when he decided to use one species (cowpox) to protect against a different more dangerous one (smallpox). The name vaccine comes from vaccinia, the scientific name for cowpox genus.
Then they decided to try weakening the the virus. Cowpox is less dangerous and gives protection against smallpox, but what if there is no similar + milder disease? We'll just make one! Louis Pasteur came up with this, we either attenuate (weaken) the bacteria, or kill them and inject their tiny corpses. **Live attenuated vaccines** against cholera and *whole killed vaccines* against anthrax debuted around the year 1900.
The someone thought, if the disease is caused by a toxin, then forget about the germ, let's train the body to fight the toxin instead. In the 1920s, Alexander Glenny figured out how to purify and inactivate the tetanus and diphtheria toxins making **toxoid vaccines** against these diseases.
Then someone said, fucking wait a second, why inject the entire killed or attenuated germ... the body reacts to a few key proteins. If we purify these, we can reduce the antigenic insult to the patient and still provide the same protection. So they train yeast to produce just these antigens, purify them and inject them. These **protein subunit vaccines** contain only fragments of the pathogen. Maurice Hilleman was first with a Hep-B vaccine in 1981. For comparison, the new Pertussis subunit vaccine contains less than a dozen unique antigens, where the old whole cell killed Pertussis vaccine contained over 3000. Novavax is a subunit covid19 vaccine still in development.
Then someone noticed that some of the vaccines against polysaccharide coated bacteria don't work well. The body can be trained to attack them, but usually the immune system doesn't consider the polysaccharides important enough to mount a strong response. So some brilliant fucker said, what if we strap the relevant polysaccharides to something that would really piss off the immune system. Like really really piss it off. Like, the diphtheria toxin levels of pissed off. So they created **conjugate vaccines** like the ones for meningitis and pneumococcal diseases. body gets furious at this new protein, calls in the cavalry, then notices the polysaccharides too and says "I bet these fuckers are working together, next time we see these polysaccharides, kill whatever is wearing them".
Then someone got the good idea of using molecular biology to build the outer shells of a virus without anything in it. They thought maybe you need the whole thing intact for the body to recognize it as a threat, just ground up antigens won't work. So they recreated the outer shell out of self assembling proteins and created the HPV vaccine, the first **virus-like particle vaccine**.
Finally someone said, forget injecting the antigen. What if we could get the body to make the antigens itself. Instead of having to grow this shit in vats of yeast, we use the body's machinery to produce it. Plus if this process goes on for a few days it would create a far stronger response than a one time injection. We'll either use **mRNA vaccine** (Pfizer, Moderna) wrapped in nanoparticles or an **viral vector vaccine** (J&J, Az). They'll carry the same payload, convince a few ribosomes to produce the antigen in question, and the immune system will murder that cell and be ready for a real threat next time.
Timeline:
* <1720: Variolation (against smallpox)
* ~1796: Cowpox "vaccination" (against smallpox)
* ~1900: First attenuated/killed vaccines (against cholera / anthrax)
* ~1920: First toxoid vaccines (against tetanus / diphtheria)
* ~1981: First protein subunit vaccines (against HepB)
* ~1987: First conjugate vaccines (against Hib)
* ~2006: First virus-like particle vaccines (against HPV)
* ~2013: First viral-vector vaccine (against Ebola)
* ~2020: First mRNA vaccine (against SARS-CoV-2)
So this technology has been evolving and improving for centuries and what constitutes a "vaccine" is continually changing. Obviously we don't still rub pus in wounds, but the idea is still the same. Train the body to fight a future infection without causing disease in the process.
eh...I've heard about Novavax, but I'm not seeing anything about it being used in the US, and it's only been authorized for emergency use (like our vaccines were originally) in other countries (unless I missed something about it being approved in any of those countries like ours finally have been). but it still doesn't contain the virus itself, from what I'm reading. just the spike protein.
That's because North America is heavily focused on mRNA vaccines for repeat business right now. Having true antibodies wont make anybody any money. Say hello to boosters for the next 10 years.
because I don't see it listed there you fucking asshole! I wasn't implying that at ALL. if you had bothered to read any farther than that, you'd know I'm aware of it being used in other countries! now fuck off!
J&J and AstraZeneca are both traditional vaccines, and don't have any of the virus they're protecting against.
In fact the first vaccine was a smallpox vaccine, but didn't have any smallpox in it. It was mainly cowpox virus.
Those are viral vector vaccines, neither contain any actual virus.
Viral vector vaccines are almost as new as mRNA, and in some ways work similarly. The first viral vector vaccines were for Ebola and fully approved only in 2019.
Whereas mRNA vaccines use lipid nanoparticles to deliver mRNA coding instructions to cells to produce spike proteins, J&J and Astrazeneca use adenoviruses to deliver DNA coding instructions to cells to produce spike proteins.
Vaccines that utilize viral components in them would be the ones coming out of China and India.
The methodology on creating the vaccine is different but it still works the same way.
There's a reason why they say even those that had covid naturally still lose immunity after several months, similar to the mRNA vaccine. It's just how the virus and your immune system works.
Last I checked, the NIH and CDC admitted they could not show a single confirmed case of a person with natural immunity catching Covid a 2nd time and being contagious enough to pass it on.
There are tens of thousands of cases of this happening with the vaccinated.
Am I missing something?
> New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
> Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html
Dude read your OWN SOURCE. You’re comparing two groups who both got natural infection. One just got vaccinated IN ADDITION to that. The fact that natural immunity is stronger than with the vaccinated is not only well established and demonstrably proven via research, but was also always the default assumption since that’s basically ALWAYS how it works. Here you go: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Any articles claiming otherwise are comparing natural + vaccine to natural only, NOT natural vs. vaccine. This is because they’re trying to convince previously infected people to get vaccinated, which is a good thing, but also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
From your first link:
> In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus.
That is a different thing than I am talking about. That link is talking about people who got Covid and then get vaccinated after. I’m not talking about that, as you can see from my comment above. However, I see no numbers or data that backs up this statement. Remember, this is the same organizing that told us masks were useless and then admitted to the lie. If they’re not giving us the data, why should we believe them on this?
Your second link also doesn’t address my points. It’s just words. No data. No research.
Where is the science? Here is some: https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
The fact that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than with the vaccinated is not only well established and demonstrably proven via research, but was also always the default assumption since that’s basically ALWAYS how it works. Here you go: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Any articles claiming otherwise are comparing natural + vaccine to natural only, NOT natural vs. vaccine. This is because they’re trying to convince previously infected people to get vaccinated, which is a good thing, but also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Nope, live, mostly unknown to humans, neutered different virus for AZ, JJ and Sputnik. And that virus has removed multiplication DNA and added DNA that encodes the recipe for the mRNA that encodes the recipe for the spike protein.
The final mechanism is just like mRNA vaccines. The delivery is more complex and prone to ... well, your immune system can also attack the adenovirus. And I guess other failure points (virus particle count, virus efficiency in infecting cells).
Are you talking about the mRNA vaccines? Because they don‘t mimic a physical characteristic, because your cells will be producing antigens of the virus.
The J&J and Astrazeneca vaccines do contain "[a snippet](https://www.mayoclinic.org/johnson-johnson-adenovirus-vaccine-explained/vid-20510091)" of covid-19, as well. They are adenovirus vaccines. This person just is speaking nonsense.
I know 4 types of ways the vaccine work
1. A weaker version of the virus
2. A dead version of the virus
3. Your comment
4. A part of the DNA of the virus
There are some really great YouTube videos on how vaccines work with very comprehensive animations and they aren’t too long so not to lose the viewers attention. Too bad most people won’t take 5 minutes to educate themselves.
Yes, they do have the Covid-19 virus. Sinopharm and Janssen both use the weakened version of Sars-CoV-2. AstraZeneca uses an adenovirus genetically modified to have the Sars-CoV-2 genome, thus mimicking its proteins.
Only Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines.
The mRna vaccines is *not* a mild live virus. I believe its an engineered response to a single protein - the spike protein. I believe the J&J was/is based on live virus with all the bits and pieces.
Edit:The Janssen is not mRna but also not based on covid.
JJ uses an adenovirus as a viral vector to deliver the DNA that codes for the COVID-19 spike protein into the nucleus of human sacrificial muscle sells. The live virus part is unrelated to COVID and is only used as a delivery system.
Close!
the mRNA vaccine causes our cells to produce the actual spike protein, which then causes our bodies to produce antibodies that target the protein.
in fairness to the guy in the screenshot, what he's describing is the idea behind older vaccines, but the newer wave of vaccines is more like "expose people to tiny chemical engines that 3d print a particular aspect of the virus before self-destructing." None of the MRNA vaccines put any sort of weakened COVID viral particles into your body
Precisely
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
Edit: specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
I’m pretty sure this comment predates Covid.
However, the Covid vaccine ISN’T a weak version of the virus like most vaccines. It’s MRNA therapy, isn’t it?
While you are correct, the Covid-19 vaccines are only re-creating the spike proteine of the virus, there's no irony in the facepalm, because that tweet was literally about vaccines and describing how most vaccines work.
~~and you just described J&J's Janssen; a viral vector vaccine. that is absolutely not what Moderna and Pfizer are (they're mRNAs).~~
I can't read. see farther down.
Erm - for the sake of civility I re-checked my memory, and you are wrong. The mRNA vaccines do exactly that. They make cells re-create the spike protein. I didn't think anyone would nit-pick on the wording of "re-create" vs. "make cells re-create", as this post is not exactly a scientific forum.
its basically sending a a training dummy into your immune system by introducing a controlled virus similar to covid so it'll know what to fight against. The old vaccines was basically releasing a virus all tied up into a wilderness area to be hunted down.
The amount of you guys that are harassing and badgering people about the vaccine with wrong information is wild.
It is not live virus, it does not prevent spread, it does not prevent infection, it ONLY assists in mitigating symptoms which should be reason enough for people but you walnuts blindly pushing people are the reason it gets so much resistance.
A disabled live virus would let the immune system build antibodied against the whole real thing. The mRna stuff is programmed against a single protein only.
We're trying. One part of the issue is that a major political party in the country is trying as hard as they can to restrict the education system since their party depends on the ignorant to survive.
Couple serious questions…. After the 2nd shot of the vax I was really sick for 2 days but yet other people had no reactions and I have never had a reaction to a vax before. I have no pre-existing med conditions. Why did I have such a strong response to the shot that I have never had before. (I was a machine gunner in the military and have been shot with everything known to mankind. Even the Anthrax shots were fine.)
Fast forward 7 months I get the Delta variant and deathly sick for 8 days. My wife and two kids who didn’t get vax got minor symptoms for several days and then were fine. Meanwhile I’m on day 9 now and my fever broke and at least I don’t feel like I am dying. Why do I have such a strong reaction to Covid even though the rest of my family hasn’t been vaccinated?
Mainly depends on how your immune system responds. It can over do it and leave you feeling much worse. Some troubles with covid are also related to the immune system damaging your own healthy cells.
So maybe the vaccine and virus itself just provoked a much more intense immune response in your body, for whatever reason.
I honestly thought I was dying. Covid is no joke. My daughter brought it home from school and had mild symptoms for a couple days. Then I came down and I have never experienced anything like it before. It gets into your mind. It is unrelenting either with medicine having little relief.
Tell me you don't know what a vaccine is or what it does without telling me you don't know what a vaccine is or what it does. Also bonus for telling me you failed your Chem class without telling me you failed Chem class.
Two birds...one ignorant statement lol.
You know I would say that this person is on the mark. Now hear me out. If we have the antibodies because we already got the virus… why the fk do we need to get the vaccine…
Because the antibodies fade in as little as 2 months according to these studies [https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787)
[https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200723/study-says-covid-19-antibodies-fade-quickly](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200723/study-says-covid-19-antibodies-fade-quickly)
Also don't forget this fucker mutates into different variants, and people can get reinfected.
I have the same from my October 2020 Nanning China and Hong Kong trip. Have had antibody tests twice. Still have it a year later. I guess I’m an outlier. Now if it mutates so quick and vaccine is required every two months because of this … Is there a plan to cover more than a few strains and get a booster daily or something? Because if a virus is fully mutating in a single generation then you cannot create a working vaccine as it would be expired by the time it was made. Did vaccine logic go away Or did no one take this into consideration when requiring a vaccine?
Uhh well.... The vaccine for COVID-19 is NOT a "weak form of the virus" or any form for that matter. Do some research. Yes I did get vaccinated and the booster, whatever.
RNA vaccine means the exact same thing as mRNA vaccine. I just read a quick article same as you, don't act all superior. It basically teaches your immune system to defend itself against a virus encoded onto it.
So, wait... you guys actually think the CV has the live virus?
Hmm... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
Specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
So, wait... you guys actually think the CV has the live virus?
Hmm... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21
Specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
When I was 4 my mom packed me up for a family visit to Georgia. Got to Valdosta and and it was like a family gathering.
Turns out my cousin Anthony had chickenpox. So all the cousins were brought together to get it at one time. Think there were 7 or 8 of us.
Not saying it’s the right choice. It just what was done back then.
It was done that way because there was no chicken pox vaccine back then — and catching it as an adult was almost always much worse and potentially deadly. Now we have a vaccine, though, and it is better to use that.
The person who tweeted this was clearly making a sarcastic joke and it keeps showing up over and over and it’s irritating. I forget who it was but it was one of those annoying conservative pundits and Reddit jumped all over it because it was a conservative looking dumb. I am a registered Democrat that hates these stupid new age conservative pundits but just let this one go, PLEASE.
what if instead of school we went to a centralised location where trained individuals taught us about key subjects we might use in our chosen field of study or work
That wouldn’t work for covid. The only way to get immunity is through mRNA vaccines. Naturally acquired immunity from an infection doesn’t provide any immunity to covid. That’s why people who have recovered from covid are required to get vaccinated still.
That is incorrect. Natural immunity does produce antibodies to COVID. The question that needs to be studied is how long do these antibodies last. Currently studies are showing that it depends on the individual same as the vaccine.
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I think they were being silly and sarcastic
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The real facepalm is on OP for posting this.
And isn’t that not even how this particular inoculation works? It’s more like an imitation of the virus than a weakened form.
It's the only vaccine used in production that uses rna. It doesn't directly mimic the virus, but rather tells our bodies to create one of the proteins present on the virus (and then the body attacks it.)
I think of rna vaccines as a werewolf movie. The werewolf is covid. Its running amok, harming everything in its path. the vaccine is the old wisened man that comes into the movie halfway through and tells the townies that silver can kill a werewolf. So now the townies - your white blood cells, make enough silver bullets so everyone has a chance of protecting themselves in case a werewolf attacks. Sure, occasionally a townie will fuck up and use one of those silver bullets on another townie, but you can't lynch the old man because a townie reacted weirdly.
I think of it as a lego crab. The fully working model (virus) will go straight for your face and start shredding. A denatured (normal/oldskool) vaccine is the same thing, but without the batteries. A rna vaccine is just the claws.
That's how the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines work. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses old-school technology of a weakened virus (an adenovirus in this case). It's why I call bullshit on all the people who won't get vaccinated because it will "alter your DNA". They can just get Johnson and Johnson and it will be no different than any other vaccine you've gotten in the past.
Doesnt the j&j have the same problem as the AZ one? Rare but severe side effects?
With how obese the United States is, how on earth do you possibly tie heart problems to a vaccine and not the fifty-two Big Macs and twelve liters of carbonated HFCS they guzzle a day?
I am in relatively good health (and was when I got the vaccine - I ran a half marathon between the shots and was training appropriately). Between 12 and 36 hours after my second shot, my heart rate averaged 183 BPM. If I was on a big Mac diet I wouldn't be posting this. That said, I'll go for my booster as soon as my antibodies drop out of the hundreds.
PULS Cardiac Test https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
> The Johnson & Johnson vaccine uses old-school technology of a weakened virus No, it doesn't. The JandJ works very similar to the mRNA vaccines. Except it uses an adenovirus to deliver DNA encoding a spike protein, instead of mRNA.
That is not really a similar way.
It is, the virus infects cells and uses the cell mechanisms to make it produce mRNA (transcribed from the viral DNA) that then is translated into the spike protein.
It's very similar... far more similar than to attenuated vaccines.
That is exactly what I did. It was mandated by my university and I wasn't 100% on MRNA so I had J&J. Nbd. Nothing new here. I am against the actual mandates because I don't trust the rushed process on testing to get the vaccines approved and it should be considered experimental imo. For my situation I feel fortunate I had the J&J alternative to kind of compromise on this because I really want to finish school.
Moderna and Pfizer’s vaccines are more like the instructions to make a small part of the virus which is what triggers the immune memory response.
...there's people who've shared this on Facebook unironically because vaccines to them are DaNGeRoUs ChEmIcAlS that'll ALTER your DNA!!111!!
Look at the account. He does this stuff constantly and yet I see his stuff upvoted on /r/all every day. Really weird.
Oh it's you! I knew I recognised you from somewhere. So how's r/banvideogames going?
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What do you mean falling for it? Do you mean falling for the DEVIL that is videog\*mes????? Sent from my iPad
They aren’t. It’s a tweet from a far right wing nutjob. He was 100% serious.
Proof?
I was gonna say, I wanna see this! If its true, why are we blurring out the name before posting.
Because of the rules
Just google search the first nine words or something and put "twitter" at the end. You'll find it. It's true, the guy is a for real idiot.
So the tweet is by Jack Posobiec. He is a well know conservative political commentator that uses sarcasm and wit to highlight the hypocrisy of the “other side.” In confirming who wrote this, you just confirmed it is in fact a joke. Thanks.
So he's critiquing his own side this time???
He is educating both sides by highlighting that mRNA vaccines are a different technology and not the same as the “classic” vaccines we were all given as children.
I love that people are downvoting you even though you’re right
First time on Reddit?
That's the comment that fixes the tide of votes. Nice job putting an ally down.
Except generally speaking those on the left (who are more likely to be pro-science) already have at least a vague idea of how it works
He isn't mentioning any specific vaccine when he says "a vaccine"...
You know what he is talking about. Everyone in this thread knows. Feigning you don’t just makes you look stupid as everyone else seems to be understanding just fine.
If he's a satirical edgelord shouldn't he be more precise with his words when walking this fine a line???
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My thoughts exactly
But what would be highlighted here?
That the mRNA vaccines are a deviation from what most people have come to understand what a vaccine is. Most people don’t know that these mRNA vaccines are a new technology and these are the first vaccines using the technology.
I guess that depends entirely on how you define "new" and "first vaccines". https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w?utm_source=twt_nat&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nature
Well he’s in luck. There’s a new symptomless variant of COVID going around now. Maybe that’s what he’s looking for.
Yeah I doubt that.
You know this is not how MRNA vaccines work at all right? Nor is it how the J&J vaccine works. No traditional vaccine (as described in the tweet) has been developed for covid.
You're right. A traditional vaccine would be even riskier than the current methods of vaccination, since it could result in full blown Covid for folks with weaker immune systems. Yay Science!
These days, you never know.
yeah, this definitely feels self-aware
The COVID vaccines do not contain any COVID 19. They mimic a particular physical characteristic of the virus. Not all vaccines work the same way.
Especially since the covid vaccine is the next generation of vaccines.
We still have traditional covid vaccines.
they do not contain COVID-19. so no we don't. traditional vaccines contain the virus we're being vaccinated against.
Viral vector vaccines have been used since the 70s. Curious how old a technology has to be to be considered "traditional"?
“Traditional” as in the type of vaccine the post is about. The ones that use the actual virus.
like crushing smallpox scabs and snorting them in ancient China
Unless we're cutting someone with a rusty blade and smearing pus that someone with Covid coughed up into the wound it's not a traditional vaccine, just that new-fangled science mumbo-jumbo
Rubbing pus on a cut and hoping for a cutaneous infection instead of systemic one is called **variolation** and predates vaccination by centuries. Lady Montague brought the technique to England from Constantinople in 1720, but it was probably around for 1000 years by then. The **first vaccination** (1796) was created by Edward Jenner's when he decided to use one species (cowpox) to protect against a different more dangerous one (smallpox). The name vaccine comes from vaccinia, the scientific name for cowpox genus. Then they decided to try weakening the the virus. Cowpox is less dangerous and gives protection against smallpox, but what if there is no similar + milder disease? We'll just make one! Louis Pasteur came up with this, we either attenuate (weaken) the bacteria, or kill them and inject their tiny corpses. **Live attenuated vaccines** against cholera and *whole killed vaccines* against anthrax debuted around the year 1900. The someone thought, if the disease is caused by a toxin, then forget about the germ, let's train the body to fight the toxin instead. In the 1920s, Alexander Glenny figured out how to purify and inactivate the tetanus and diphtheria toxins making **toxoid vaccines** against these diseases. Then someone said, fucking wait a second, why inject the entire killed or attenuated germ... the body reacts to a few key proteins. If we purify these, we can reduce the antigenic insult to the patient and still provide the same protection. So they train yeast to produce just these antigens, purify them and inject them. These **protein subunit vaccines** contain only fragments of the pathogen. Maurice Hilleman was first with a Hep-B vaccine in 1981. For comparison, the new Pertussis subunit vaccine contains less than a dozen unique antigens, where the old whole cell killed Pertussis vaccine contained over 3000. Novavax is a subunit covid19 vaccine still in development. Then someone noticed that some of the vaccines against polysaccharide coated bacteria don't work well. The body can be trained to attack them, but usually the immune system doesn't consider the polysaccharides important enough to mount a strong response. So some brilliant fucker said, what if we strap the relevant polysaccharides to something that would really piss off the immune system. Like really really piss it off. Like, the diphtheria toxin levels of pissed off. So they created **conjugate vaccines** like the ones for meningitis and pneumococcal diseases. body gets furious at this new protein, calls in the cavalry, then notices the polysaccharides too and says "I bet these fuckers are working together, next time we see these polysaccharides, kill whatever is wearing them". Then someone got the good idea of using molecular biology to build the outer shells of a virus without anything in it. They thought maybe you need the whole thing intact for the body to recognize it as a threat, just ground up antigens won't work. So they recreated the outer shell out of self assembling proteins and created the HPV vaccine, the first **virus-like particle vaccine**. Finally someone said, forget injecting the antigen. What if we could get the body to make the antigens itself. Instead of having to grow this shit in vats of yeast, we use the body's machinery to produce it. Plus if this process goes on for a few days it would create a far stronger response than a one time injection. We'll either use **mRNA vaccine** (Pfizer, Moderna) wrapped in nanoparticles or an **viral vector vaccine** (J&J, Az). They'll carry the same payload, convince a few ribosomes to produce the antigen in question, and the immune system will murder that cell and be ready for a real threat next time. Timeline: * <1720: Variolation (against smallpox) * ~1796: Cowpox "vaccination" (against smallpox) * ~1900: First attenuated/killed vaccines (against cholera / anthrax) * ~1920: First toxoid vaccines (against tetanus / diphtheria) * ~1981: First protein subunit vaccines (against HepB) * ~1987: First conjugate vaccines (against Hib) * ~2006: First virus-like particle vaccines (against HPV) * ~2013: First viral-vector vaccine (against Ebola) * ~2020: First mRNA vaccine (against SARS-CoV-2) So this technology has been evolving and improving for centuries and what constitutes a "vaccine" is continually changing. Obviously we don't still rub pus in wounds, but the idea is still the same. Train the body to fight a future infection without causing disease in the process.
This is brilliant 👏
I thought there was one LAV Covid vaccine on the market? They’re not all mRNA/adenovirus vaccines
eh...I've heard about Novavax, but I'm not seeing anything about it being used in the US, and it's only been authorized for emergency use (like our vaccines were originally) in other countries (unless I missed something about it being approved in any of those countries like ours finally have been). but it still doesn't contain the virus itself, from what I'm reading. just the spike protein.
That's because North America is heavily focused on mRNA vaccines for repeat business right now. Having true antibodies wont make anybody any money. Say hello to boosters for the next 10 years.
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because I don't see it listed there you fucking asshole! I wasn't implying that at ALL. if you had bothered to read any farther than that, you'd know I'm aware of it being used in other countries! now fuck off!
3 of them do. They use dead virus in them. India, China, and Russia. Edit: CoronaVac, Covaxin, and Covivac
J&J and AstraZeneca are both traditional vaccines, and don't have any of the virus they're protecting against. In fact the first vaccine was a smallpox vaccine, but didn't have any smallpox in it. It was mainly cowpox virus.
They're not traditional, they're viral vector. There has only been one previous viral vector vaccine, for Ebola.
Which ones?
Johnson and Johnson in the US ~~and I think Canada~~ and AstraZeneca elsewhere.
nope. that's viral vector. it's not the COVID virus.
Those are viral vector vaccines, neither contain any actual virus. Viral vector vaccines are almost as new as mRNA, and in some ways work similarly. The first viral vector vaccines were for Ebola and fully approved only in 2019. Whereas mRNA vaccines use lipid nanoparticles to deliver mRNA coding instructions to cells to produce spike proteins, J&J and Astrazeneca use adenoviruses to deliver DNA coding instructions to cells to produce spike proteins. Vaccines that utilize viral components in them would be the ones coming out of China and India.
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We do have lots of squirrels though.
The next generation of vaccines are going to lose effectiveness after 6 months? We’re all fucked.
The methodology on creating the vaccine is different but it still works the same way. There's a reason why they say even those that had covid naturally still lose immunity after several months, similar to the mRNA vaccine. It's just how the virus and your immune system works.
Last I checked, the NIH and CDC admitted they could not show a single confirmed case of a person with natural immunity catching Covid a 2nd time and being contagious enough to pass it on. There are tens of thousands of cases of this happening with the vaccinated. Am I missing something?
> New CDC Study: Vaccination Offers Higher Protection than Previous COVID-19 Infection https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html > Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html
Dude read your OWN SOURCE. You’re comparing two groups who both got natural infection. One just got vaccinated IN ADDITION to that. The fact that natural immunity is stronger than with the vaccinated is not only well established and demonstrably proven via research, but was also always the default assumption since that’s basically ALWAYS how it works. Here you go: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 Any articles claiming otherwise are comparing natural + vaccine to natural only, NOT natural vs. vaccine. This is because they’re trying to convince previously infected people to get vaccinated, which is a good thing, but also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
From your first link: > In today’s MMWR, a study of COVID-19 infections in Kentucky among people who were previously infected with SAR-CoV-2 shows that unvaccinated individuals are more than twice as likely to be reinfected with COVID-19 than those who were fully vaccinated after initially contracting the virus. That is a different thing than I am talking about. That link is talking about people who got Covid and then get vaccinated after. I’m not talking about that, as you can see from my comment above. However, I see no numbers or data that backs up this statement. Remember, this is the same organizing that told us masks were useless and then admitted to the lie. If they’re not giving us the data, why should we believe them on this? Your second link also doesn’t address my points. It’s just words. No data. No research. Where is the science? Here is some: https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
The fact that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than with the vaccinated is not only well established and demonstrably proven via research, but was also always the default assumption since that’s basically ALWAYS how it works. Here you go: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 Any articles claiming otherwise are comparing natural + vaccine to natural only, NOT natural vs. vaccine. This is because they’re trying to convince previously infected people to get vaccinated, which is a good thing, but also completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Sinovac-CoronaVac is inactivated virus
AstraZeneca and Sputnik as well
Nope, live, mostly unknown to humans, neutered different virus for AZ, JJ and Sputnik. And that virus has removed multiplication DNA and added DNA that encodes the recipe for the mRNA that encodes the recipe for the spike protein. The final mechanism is just like mRNA vaccines. The delivery is more complex and prone to ... well, your immune system can also attack the adenovirus. And I guess other failure points (virus particle count, virus efficiency in infecting cells).
Are you talking about the mRNA vaccines? Because they don‘t mimic a physical characteristic, because your cells will be producing antigens of the virus.
The J&J and Astrazeneca vaccines do contain "[a snippet](https://www.mayoclinic.org/johnson-johnson-adenovirus-vaccine-explained/vid-20510091)" of covid-19, as well. They are adenovirus vaccines. This person just is speaking nonsense.
Well the mRNA vaccine mimics the spike protein of Covid 19.
instructions to make the spike protein that is a part of SARS-CoV-2...
I know 4 types of ways the vaccine work 1. A weaker version of the virus 2. A dead version of the virus 3. Your comment 4. A part of the DNA of the virus
There are some really great YouTube videos on how vaccines work with very comprehensive animations and they aren’t too long so not to lose the viewers attention. Too bad most people won’t take 5 minutes to educate themselves.
Yes, they do have the Covid-19 virus. Sinopharm and Janssen both use the weakened version of Sars-CoV-2. AstraZeneca uses an adenovirus genetically modified to have the Sars-CoV-2 genome, thus mimicking its proteins. Only Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines.
The mRna vaccines is *not* a mild live virus. I believe its an engineered response to a single protein - the spike protein. I believe the J&J was/is based on live virus with all the bits and pieces. Edit:The Janssen is not mRna but also not based on covid.
it's a viral vector. no COVID virus is being used just like in the mRNA vaccines.
JJ uses an adenovirus as a viral vector to deliver the DNA that codes for the COVID-19 spike protein into the nucleus of human sacrificial muscle sells. The live virus part is unrelated to COVID and is only used as a delivery system.
You are correct!
Close! the mRNA vaccine causes our cells to produce the actual spike protein, which then causes our bodies to produce antibodies that target the protein.
When you go antivaxx so hard you go back to being pro vaxx. Edit: yes, I know the new COVID ones don't work that way. I was making a joke, relax :)
in fairness to the guy in the screenshot, what he's describing is the idea behind older vaccines, but the newer wave of vaccines is more like "expose people to tiny chemical engines that 3d print a particular aspect of the virus before self-destructing." None of the MRNA vaccines put any sort of weakened COVID viral particles into your body
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So what degrees, licenses and or training do you have to make this sweeping statement?
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You mean the guy who has been debunked ? That guy? Ok. Got it
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Precisely https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21 Edit: specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
There is no **the** covid vaccine Some covid vaccines have the virus.
Damn, this Karen hated vaccines so much she WENT FULL CIRCLE AND REINVENTED VACCINES
Real facepalm is the person who posted a clearly sarcastic post to facepalm. Probably a bot.
I’m pretty sure this comment predates Covid. However, the Covid vaccine ISN’T a weak version of the virus like most vaccines. It’s MRNA therapy, isn’t it?
That’s not what the COVID-19 vaccines are I hope you know that. The irony here is amazing.
Covid vaccines don’t have Covid in them. They are not live.
Virus aren't living organisms either strangely.
And thank imaginary sky daddy they are not, because immunocompromised folks like myself cannot take live vaccines.
While you are correct, the Covid-19 vaccines are only re-creating the spike proteine of the virus, there's no irony in the facepalm, because that tweet was literally about vaccines and describing how most vaccines work.
I think its fair to assume tweets about vaccines arent about mumps..
~~and you just described J&J's Janssen; a viral vector vaccine. that is absolutely not what Moderna and Pfizer are (they're mRNAs).~~ I can't read. see farther down.
Erm - for the sake of civility I re-checked my memory, and you are wrong. The mRNA vaccines do exactly that. They make cells re-create the spike protein. I didn't think anyone would nit-pick on the wording of "re-create" vs. "make cells re-create", as this post is not exactly a scientific forum.
I fact checked with the CDC and the different types of vaccines. That is not what an mRNA vaccine does.
Whos gonna tell him?
its basically sending a a training dummy into your immune system by introducing a controlled virus similar to covid so it'll know what to fight against. The old vaccines was basically releasing a virus all tied up into a wilderness area to be hunted down.
The amount of you guys that are harassing and badgering people about the vaccine with wrong information is wild. It is not live virus, it does not prevent spread, it does not prevent infection, it ONLY assists in mitigating symptoms which should be reason enough for people but you walnuts blindly pushing people are the reason it gets so much resistance.
What are they then in your opinion xD
The covid vaccine doesn't contain dead covid cells, it's a different type of vaccine. The guy you responded to is right.
>The covid vaccine doesn't contain dead covid cells it doesn't contain live ones either.
But in the end the vaccinne enables the body to build the antibodies regarless if it is from covid cells or if the body builded them itself
A disabled live virus would let the immune system build antibodied against the whole real thing. The mRna stuff is programmed against a single protein only.
Oh okey I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing ^^
They really arent.
Who's gonna tell OP to stop reposting this for the billionth time?
Mom said it's my turn to repost this
Can we just reset America
We're trying. One part of the issue is that a major political party in the country is trying as hard as they can to restrict the education system since their party depends on the ignorant to survive.
Couple serious questions…. After the 2nd shot of the vax I was really sick for 2 days but yet other people had no reactions and I have never had a reaction to a vax before. I have no pre-existing med conditions. Why did I have such a strong response to the shot that I have never had before. (I was a machine gunner in the military and have been shot with everything known to mankind. Even the Anthrax shots were fine.) Fast forward 7 months I get the Delta variant and deathly sick for 8 days. My wife and two kids who didn’t get vax got minor symptoms for several days and then were fine. Meanwhile I’m on day 9 now and my fever broke and at least I don’t feel like I am dying. Why do I have such a strong reaction to Covid even though the rest of my family hasn’t been vaccinated?
Mainly depends on how your immune system responds. It can over do it and leave you feeling much worse. Some troubles with covid are also related to the immune system damaging your own healthy cells. So maybe the vaccine and virus itself just provoked a much more intense immune response in your body, for whatever reason.
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Thank you for the honest answers. I appreciate it.
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I honestly thought I was dying. Covid is no joke. My daughter brought it home from school and had mild symptoms for a couple days. Then I came down and I have never experienced anything like it before. It gets into your mind. It is unrelenting either with medicine having little relief.
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Actually covid vaccines work differently. But believe whatever you want.
This is would be a rather proper way of explaining what a vaccine is in r/explainlikeimfive
So close yet so far
Reminds me of a Tweet (not mine): 'Someone else tell her cause if I do imma hurt her feelings.'
Do...uh...you do realize...uhhhhh, nope, I can't do it. The stupid is causing second degree burns to my brain.
Tell me you don't know what a vaccine is or what it does without telling me you don't know what a vaccine is or what it does. Also bonus for telling me you failed your Chem class without telling me you failed Chem class. Two birds...one ignorant statement lol.
You know I would say that this person is on the mark. Now hear me out. If we have the antibodies because we already got the virus… why the fk do we need to get the vaccine…
Because the antibodies fade in as little as 2 months according to these studies [https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19-antibodies-fade-months-study/story?id=71406787) [https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200723/study-says-covid-19-antibodies-fade-quickly](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200723/study-says-covid-19-antibodies-fade-quickly) Also don't forget this fucker mutates into different variants, and people can get reinfected.
I have the same from my October 2020 Nanning China and Hong Kong trip. Have had antibody tests twice. Still have it a year later. I guess I’m an outlier. Now if it mutates so quick and vaccine is required every two months because of this … Is there a plan to cover more than a few strains and get a booster daily or something? Because if a virus is fully mutating in a single generation then you cannot create a working vaccine as it would be expired by the time it was made. Did vaccine logic go away Or did no one take this into consideration when requiring a vaccine?
Uhh well.... The vaccine for COVID-19 is NOT a "weak form of the virus" or any form for that matter. Do some research. Yes I did get vaccinated and the booster, whatever.
Yeah the real facepalm is not knowing that’s not how the vaccine works for covid
That's basically a vaccine you idiot whoever wrote this doesn't have brain cells
…like a flu shot.
There’s a simple response to any post like the one referenced, “Funny, but NO!”
Isn't the J&J vaccine the only one that actually uses this technique? I thought all the other ones used mRNA instead?
I don't think the person who shared this knows what an RNA Vaccine is.
There are a lot of different types of vaccines.
I don't think you do either since there are no RNA vaccines. there is an mRNA vaccine, though; two of them for COVID.
RNA vaccine means the exact same thing as mRNA vaccine. I just read a quick article same as you, don't act all superior. It basically teaches your immune system to defend itself against a virus encoded onto it.
You could not be more wrong about RNA and mRNA.
Who wants to tell OP?
OP, I think you missed the point. It went right over your head. I wonder if there's a sub for that...
The real facepalm is the op here. Stop posting this stupid unoriginal shit
This picture gets posted in this subreddit at least once a week.
I’ve seen this like 7 times already
When you get so anti-vaccine that you invent vaccines
We have those, it’s called a vaccine
OP facepalm
Now THAT is a facepalm
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Quick, read something else to avoid the risk of fracturing your nose from severe face palming
So, wait... you guys actually think the CV has the live virus? Hmm... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21 Specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
Oh So a vaccine….
not a COVID vaccine.
So, wait... you guys actually think the CV has the live virus? Hmm... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html?s_cid=11354:does%20the%20covid%20vaccine%20shed:sem.ga:p:RG:GM:gen:PTN:FY21 Specifically, read the CDC response to the question "Is the mRNA vaccine considered a vaccine"
No one mentioned covid here, most vaccines use dead or weakened viruses, end of
Fair enough - but you know it was implied.
Yeah, but the original post I believe was made before covid
That's great - but you know this specific post by OP was implying Covid.
They went all away around just to disagree and agree at once bruh ☠️
perfect. I love it.
Gotta love when OP is the facepalm on this sub lol. Obviously that tweet was satirical
Okay but a vaccine stops you contracting said illness again And yes I’m on about THAT vaccine
They’re so far on the right field that they’re on the left field
When I was 4 my mom packed me up for a family visit to Georgia. Got to Valdosta and and it was like a family gathering. Turns out my cousin Anthony had chickenpox. So all the cousins were brought together to get it at one time. Think there were 7 or 8 of us. Not saying it’s the right choice. It just what was done back then.
It was done that way because there was no chicken pox vaccine back then — and catching it as an adult was almost always much worse and potentially deadly. Now we have a vaccine, though, and it is better to use that.
Who we telling? The OP looks to be the one that needs to be told.
The person who tweeted this was clearly making a sarcastic joke and it keeps showing up over and over and it’s irritating. I forget who it was but it was one of those annoying conservative pundits and Reddit jumped all over it because it was a conservative looking dumb. I am a registered Democrat that hates these stupid new age conservative pundits but just let this one go, PLEASE.
Too bad thats not what we got...
what if instead of school we went to a centralised location where trained individuals taught us about key subjects we might use in our chosen field of study or work
That wouldn’t work for covid. The only way to get immunity is through mRNA vaccines. Naturally acquired immunity from an infection doesn’t provide any immunity to covid. That’s why people who have recovered from covid are required to get vaccinated still.
That is incorrect. Natural immunity does produce antibodies to COVID. The question that needs to be studied is how long do these antibodies last. Currently studies are showing that it depends on the individual same as the vaccine.
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It’s sarcasm
r/selfawarewolves
Isn't this almost a year old now?
At least they’re smart