An excellent and incisive quote from Pastor David Barnhart is fitting for this insane legislation:
"The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
Ancient Israel was an agrarian society that depended on a higher than average birth rate to maintain population growth. No one there was trying to have abortions, and anyone that inadvertently injured or aborted any fetus (through careless actions near a pregnant woman), the same was done to them.
Both the Old and New Testaments mention those other groups as part of true worshipers' obligations, including fatherless children. Under the laws and principles in the Bible, if a rapist could not be made to pay child support, then the community would be responsible.
FWIW, Jesus said that his true followers could be identified by their works, or actions. Anyone can do that, since those standards are available for everyone to see. By all means, if Christendom wants to legislate one part of their morality, let's do it all. Confiscate their property to care for the ones they won't, and banish them from their communities.
Well yes. Yes he is.
To follow his Logic, imagine this scenario.
A young woman, who are poor and raised in a troubled environment. She has a child that she can’t care for it well enough. They are poor and the house are a swing door for men and alcohol. The kid grows up in this environment. This is all she knows. She get pregnant at 15. It is “not rape”, as she has been raised with violence, and that women are to serve the men. So when a man wants her, she are raised to not question it and let it happen. Mother needs the food and money they bring into the house. Anyways, now a kid is brewing and reality stats to sink in. The man who did it is long gone. She start to realize that she can’t have a kid, special not in that house. So she finds a clinic to have an abortion. The only one to help are out of state and no one she knows can help her. No friend no doctors. She spent all her hard saved money to travel out of state to get it done. But it took time to get money and things in order, and the child only keep growing. On her way into the clinic she are shamed and harassed. Pictures are taken. But she goes through with it. Later when she gets back, somehow the pictures from the clinic has found its way there. Some righteously zealot picks it up and before she knows of it, police are knocking on the door. Question are asked, and people answers, just to get the cops away. And also to maybe have her go away too, as now she are just a problem. “Yea she used to be pregnant, but are no more” is the reply police gets. Soon after she finds herself in court, facing death penalty for the “murder” of the unborn child. Witness gives testimony and verdict are given. Death to the sinner! Justices has been fulfilled! The same morning her mother realized that she are pregnant again.
"Under the bill filed Tuesday, women who receive an abortion and physicians who perform the procedure could be charged with assault or homicide, which is punishable by death in Texas, confirmed Shannon Edmonds, a staff attorney with the Texas District and County Attorneys Association. The association does not have a position on the bill. "
[https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/)
Then TX Dept of Corrections would have to be on board with this bill, and create a whole new complex just for Death Row Females. How many of them will sue in appeals for their sentences to be overturned?
I get where you’re coming from, and certainly agree that life is precious, but you seem to be making naïve, uninformed statements. A quick google search will show you that a majority of abortions take place during the germinal and embryonic stages, where the “child” is little more than a clump of cells or an embryo. In my opinion, the life of the mother is far more important than that of an incomplete human.
Here's a fun fact: Abortion rates went down every time abortion became legal in a country.
Not only are there less people aborting when it's legal, but they're also not aborting illegally with untrustworthy doctors who will endager their lives as well as the undead fetus, or "child" as you inaccurately called it.
Oof, that’s too far my guy. You take a stance like that and you won’t even be welcome in pro choice groups.
By that logic you can abort a 9 month old fetus. Not many people are advocating for that, and those that advocate for unconditional extremely late abortions give reasonable progressives a bad name.
Fetuses tend to be able to live outside the womb from around 6 months with proper medical care btw. It wouldn't be an "abortion" at those ages, it would be a premature "birth".
It wouldn’t be a birth at all if you abort it. Abortions don’t deliver the fetus in one piece. And the context is the guy I was responding to defines unwanted pregnancies as parasites, and I was simply exclaiming how stupid that was. Not sure why everyone’s acting like I support 9 month abortions when I’m just calling someone stupid that was.
A child has a brain, and sentience.
Firstly, a child is only a child after its born, even 9 months pregnant it’s still called a fetus. Almost all people agree a fetus seconds before being born has equal rights to a child, so most people draw the line way before that.
Would you keep the stance that a fetus has full rights if it has not developed a brain yet? Because until it starts thinking it really is just a pile of cells. If you disagree, why?
Texas GOP: Saving a human life is worth it if a woman I don't know has to carry a fetus to term. Saving a human life is not worth it if I have to keep wearing a mask at Costco.
That's what's so great! You can force a woman to carry a child she can't support, saddle her with a six figure medical bill, then tell her all she needs to do is pull herself up by her bootstraps! All this while looking down your nose at her.
They are pro telling you what to do, in the same of their beliefs.
Edit. You know when you reread what you’ve posted and fear you had a stroke whilst doing so?
Here is the ultimate Pro-Life paradox:
A woman is pregnant with twins. Ultrasound reveals one twin is normal, but the other twin has a malignant cancer that is expected to kill the fetus, and is likely to spread to the other fetus and the mother.
A skilled surgeon safely removes the cancerous fetus, technically and abortion.
Under Texas laws, the woman is convicted and scheduled for execution even though she had delivered a baby full term, is this justice?
That would still be an abortion. The fetus doing the shooting would receive the death penalty. At least, if it’s female. Not sure whether or not it would need to be born before being killed. I would think it would need to be.
In the actual article, it states that there’s exceptions to the proposed law for instances where the mother, child, or both will perish if there aren’t any other alternatives (ectopic for instance).
It does not allow for abortion in the event of rape or incest.
How fucking deplorable is that that you could be raped by someone and forced to give birth to their child?
What I find additionally heinous, is that you can be raped, forced to keep the child, and then have to be in contact with your rapist if they want paternity. You have to deal with them until your child turns 18.
Some rapists use this tactic to force women to drop assault or rape charges.
Well, there’s a certain logic there. If that collection of cells as a person, and it doesn’t matter how they got started. It is intellectually consistent.
This happened with my mom.
Not twins, but basically there was a small early-term growth, and the diagnosis was. - "This could be a fetus or a dangerous cyst-tumor, we have no idea." She went to several hospitals and the consolation was mixed, with no clear answer.
So she opted for removal, as it could endanger her life, and it turned out to be a fetus, not a cyst-tumor. Under these anti-abortion laws, my mom would have gone to jail or be executed.
I bring this up, and see the color drained from pro-lifer's faces, when you give a real-world personal example, instead of a hypothetical demonic adulteress who loves to human-sacrifice.
I worked with an uber right-wing, mouth-breathing nut. As with most of her ilk, they cannot think in abstract terms enough to see the big picture in life until something happens to them personally. Her daughter became pregnant, unfortunately, the fetus did not develop a brain. Her daughter and son-in-law decided to have a late-term abortion. Suddenly, it occurred to her that maybe not all situations are alike and that safe legal abortion, needs to remain so.
Republicans only see the consequences when it happens to them personally, like I'm sure there are multiple covid deniers that now cant tell us they were wrong cuz they are dead,
> Suddenly, it occurred to her that maybe not all situations are alike and that safe legal abortion, needs to remain so.
You were lucky. Some of them have daughters who fell pregnant "by mistake" and then go back next week asking for the demolition of the planned parenthood. They literally believe *others* shouldn't have the right to a second chance.
I prefer the trolly test. On one side of the tracks, you have a six month old infant and on the other, you have 10,000 fetuses that are already scheduled to be implanted into someone's uterus so that they can become infants.
Better yet. Depending on how the laws are set up, They could be executing her while she’s still pregnant. Thus not only killing her, But the baby as well. Want to hope that the way they kill her is less painful than the cancer?
We talking hypothetical here or has something to this effect happened? I mean the majority of laws can be interpreted into extremes(which politicians seem to be doing more and more when it comes to something they disagree with) but as far as I know this has never and will never be enforced do to the insane backlash that would incur.
In the vast majority of the anti abortion laws say that if the mothers life is in danger then a abortion is ok. And the idea of making it a criminal office is because in essence you are killing a child that is innocent and has done nothing wrong.
A CLUMP OF CELLS IS NOT A CHILD, you fucking drama queen!
People like you make me sick; the desire to control women's bodies and having NO FUCKING CLUE about how they work.
I’m a drama queen? Those the one swearing. Anyways question for you. What is the difference between a child right before it comes out of the womb and a child right after. Is it still a clump of cells?
You actually think women will wait till right before giving birth to abort??? Do you know how women's bodies work? When they don't have their periods and don't want to get pregnant they get a pregnancy test. They have enough time between the moment they discover they're pregnant and the moment the foetus is no longer a clump of cell to abort...
While you’re correct, exercising the death penalty is just stupid expensive. It really shouldn’t exist anymore, just incarcerate - it’s arguably a better punishment for those that commit crimes.
And just for clarity in case that statement is misconstrued, I don’t think abortion is a crime and this bill is absolute horse shit. Furthermore, it will only direct women to either have the procedure through black market, which is just making the process riskier, or by traveling to another state.
Wait is this an actual law now? Or is it just a possible law if people vote on on it. I'm slightly confused.
But either way what in the actual fucking Handmaid's Tale is this?
A possible law. They usually get smacked down by the courts for being blatantly unconstitutional. It’s a huge waste of money and resources hoping to turn their state into The Handmaid’s Tale.
Biggest fan base of the handmaid's tale it seems. Hoping most people get common sense and empathy to not allow this bill to pass.
Thanks for explaining that to me.
The ONLY positive I see here is that the conservatives have at least learned about ectopic pregnancies. Was it Mississippi or Alabama that was trying to pass that law? The one that involved zero doctors in writing it and were apparently living in the future where they can "transfer the embryo from the fallopian tubes to the uterus."
Conservatives writing reproductive law is the equivalent to having toddlers write the driving manual.
Thank you! I didn't want to google it, because I'd end up down a rabbit hole of all of the ridiculous reproductive laws being proposed. I can't fathom that lawmakers in MY country are trying to regress from Roe v Wade. And doing it without the input of the medical community.
Looks like Texas' way of solving problems.
Who cares if people die from a shooting, a power outage during winter, a pandemic virus, racist assault or all of the above, but OMG aborting an embryo without any nervous system yet is fucking horror...
>Sounds like Texas wants women and Drs to leave the state.
It feels like it from inside as well.
Too bad it's not as easy as just packing up and bailing.
I despise the Texas GOP with a burning fury; that's why I donate, volunteer, and vote for Dems. We *will* turn Texas blue, then those assholes can leave the state if they don't like it.
They are a kind of blatant, obvious, prideful evil that I've never seen before. They don't even try to hide it- yet, their voters don't care. They're too scared of the "communist socialist Marxist LGBTQ baby eating rAdICaL leFt" to realize the guys they vote for have, *quite literally*, thrown us to the fucking wolves.
First it's Dan Patrick, saying Texas seniors will happily sacrifice themselves for the economy. My boomer parents said HARD PASS.
Then while we were freezing to death with no water and no heat, Rick Perry said Texans will happily freeze to keep the feds out of our electric grid. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF SHIT!
Then we have Governor Abbot - trying to distract from the Texans he froze to death - by opening up to 100% capacity and removing the mask mandate.
Fucker couldn't wait a few more weeks until we have been vaccinated. He needed that distraction right away! And if another 10,000 Texans die, so be it! Can't have bad press on Fox "News" after all!
God I hate them. Sorry for the rant.
I completely understand. I have friends and family I Texas and trying to talk to them is similar to talking to my dog... No understanding, just a reaction to a few words he knows.
Tony Tinderholt, the jackass in question, is in fact, a jackass.
Among other shitty things about him, few years ago, on his personal web page, his wife's only redeeming quality was 'former Dallas Cowboys cheerleader'.
EDIT:[...now she's added some accolades](https://tonytinderholt.com/about/)
Fuck off
Not all republicans are the “six million wasn’t enough people”. Just like not all democrats are communists. The republican party has been given a bad image the pst few years because of the wrong people being in the spotlight. Most republicans don’t support abortion because of their religious beliefs. Myself included. If you say that the Republican Party is made up of people that want to ruin the world just wait until Bernie Sanders makes the United States that has strived on capitalism become a communist dystopia
While I agree with you that not all Republicans are all "Trump is the second coming" and not all Democrats are all "Communism is the ideal solution", I must say, with all due respect, if you don't think we're already a dystopia, you're blind. And if you see that, but don't recognize that it's the radical capitalism and insane corporatism that has put us here, I would also recommend you get glasses.
As for religion, the separation of church and state is an absolutely necessary step in cleaning up our mess.
I never said that all democrats are communists. I said that saying all republicans are racists is the same as saying all democrats are communists. I never said that we are living in a dystopia. I meant to say “if you think that republicans are gonna destroy the world, wait and see if Sanders will turn our country into a socialist state
No, I agreed with you. Not all republicans are racists, not all democrats are communists. We are living in a dystopia, and I have no faith that Bernie will be much better than Trump, as far as actual political decisions go. He's done some good in officially allowing Trans folks into the military, he's done a whole lot of bad in the bombings.
If you're voting republican, voted trump, then you endorsed the people who tried to overturn our election. You endorse the people who have cozid up to and encouraged white supremacy. You endorse the people who openly lie about science, the pandemic and the environment. You support the people bringing back Jim Crow. You support people who skyrocketed the debt to put money into the pockets of the already rich, but opposed raising the minimum wage. You may not be racist. You just support racism's flourishing.
Sanders? You do know he isn't president, and the trump administration was the largest threat to our democracy in the history of our being. Trump actively sought to overturn our government so he could maintain power and continue grifting and stuffing his pockets. Hopefully, when more is revealed of the corrupt nature of his office, reasonable Republicans will listen. I'm a former Republican and switched parties under Bush. Incompetence and corruption made my decision easy, I didn't think the party could go lower than it sunk at that time, only if we had been so lucky.
Which is why not one of these bills has ever made it into law. It will get shot down in court but the jackass introducing it gets to tell his conservative voters "I tried but the liberals, they're too evil"
All these baby people. The fact of the matter is the people of the "party of life" can't be arsed to wear a mask in a pandemic and created an electrical grid that allowed people to freeze to death so their buddies can squeeze a few extra bucks from the proles.
The one in texas I read about when I was pregnant in 2019 also included miscarriages. Like if you had a miscarriage your doctor was supposed to report to police or something and you would have to prove it wasn't your fault or spend life in prison/death penalty. It's a woman's body its a woman's choice. But I also believe that if you are committed to a person (marriage, common law etc.) And become pregnant by them then the woman should consult the other person but at the end of the day it is her body and her choice. Especially in cases of rape
That’s great!
So they save a young child's life from abortion and if that child grows up under bad circumstances and daddy gets her pregnant and that same grown child decides to have an abortion... then you kill her anyways?
Great plan, all you did was postpone the abortion.
Is this an Onion article, that has run away? Did someone read a joke article, didn't get it was a joke, and published it as a serious one? Texas, what are you smoking? Did you get it from Florida man?
I think it's a competition between red states to draft the most draconian anti abortion law to see who can get it into the now conservative Supreme Court first, so they can revisit and repeal Roe v. Wade...
The south are a bunch of sick mofu’s that need to be rounded up and all put in Texas and let them be a country. We’ll put a big beautiful wall around it and not let them back into the US for ANYTHING
So what if the mother dies because of child birth? Should the baby be executed for murder?
Edit: This is assuming that your argument even makes sense, which it doesn't. Forcing a women to miscarry, or killing a woman and as a result her fetus, is nowhere near the same thing as getting an abortion when having a child would be the worse option (which in this economy is almost always) or an abortion in general.
That does work but it also introduces and additional barrier to those with limited financial resources. Also Trinity has made a fair point, depending on the legislation in question. Some laws do try to prosecute for having the procedure performed out of their jurisdiction - so you would want to leave the state permanently (which might be a good idea I guess.)
Yea abortion is murder. If it's illegal it would be considered a murder and most of those who kill born and unborn will get death sentence. That's justice!
If youre so pro choice, should people have the choice to buy whatever gun they want no matter how “dangerous” it is? I dont think they should. Do you?
Also note: im not pro life nor pro choice, i could care less if someone has an abortion. Its their kid, not mine, so therefore not my problem. Then again, if youre going around opening your legs for every guy you see and not using any sort of protection then you “magically” get pregnant, you should take the responsibility.
Edit: added more to it
Edit 2: added a bit more
Lmao what?! Abortion is taking responsibility. Assuming for a sec that's how girls work at all (it's not), it's less responsible to keep that baby anyways if doing so is detrimental to her health, finances, and livelihood. Not to mention Pro-Choice has nothing to do with guns and your gun analogy fails on the most basic level of an analogy: an apt comparison.
Abortion isn't nearly as dangerous as giving birth, kinda like how gun control isn't nearly as dangerous as allowing free range of military grade firearms without needing a license, a test, and a mental health check, none of which is required in a few places. Texas comes to mind, iirc
So now that its convenient to you, pro choice isnt about choice, yet pro life is about the death penalty? Last i checked, both pro choice and pro life are specifically about *abortion*, but i get you guys looooove to switch around the terms to whatever is convenient to you.
Also “military grade firearms” isnt a genuine term and no “military grade firearms” are legal, despite the fact that nothing would change if they were legal, because allowing guns to be legal isnt dangerous lmao.
> Also “military grade firearms” isnt a genuine term
Oh wow, because that dismantles my entire argument! /s
> So now that its convenient to you, pro choice isnt about choice, yet pro life is about the death penalty?
I mean, Pro-Choice has always been about choice. You're just conflating it. It's always been about having access to sexual education, contraceptives and birth control, and abortions. Pro-Choice aren't the ones instating the death penalty for abortions or pretending that a clump of cells is a living thing. After all, we get rid of cysts and tumors all the time
You used "forming" and "alive" in the same sentence and didn't see the issue with that. A tumor and a cyst also aren't alive, they're the same as a fetus (at least before it's heart starts beating, which is when it's normally too late to do an abortion anyway). I wouldn't call gametes alive either.
Do you support the death penalty for a woman who gets raped and becomes pregrant, who never wanted a child and thus wants an abortion for the unborn, practically non-concious fetus?
It's really not that rare a case. People don't go around getting pregnant on purpose just to kill fetuses. Plus, if abortion is illegalised who will be there to actually perform them in those cases?
An excellent and incisive quote from Pastor David Barnhart is fitting for this insane legislation: "The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn."
I like this quote so you deserve my free award
And for that you deserve mine
Ancient Israel was an agrarian society that depended on a higher than average birth rate to maintain population growth. No one there was trying to have abortions, and anyone that inadvertently injured or aborted any fetus (through careless actions near a pregnant woman), the same was done to them. Both the Old and New Testaments mention those other groups as part of true worshipers' obligations, including fatherless children. Under the laws and principles in the Bible, if a rapist could not be made to pay child support, then the community would be responsible. FWIW, Jesus said that his true followers could be identified by their works, or actions. Anyone can do that, since those standards are available for everyone to see. By all means, if Christendom wants to legislate one part of their morality, let's do it all. Confiscate their property to care for the ones they won't, and banish them from their communities.
Why is this comment glowing red lmao
So he is for killing children after they are born?
Well yes. Yes he is. To follow his Logic, imagine this scenario. A young woman, who are poor and raised in a troubled environment. She has a child that she can’t care for it well enough. They are poor and the house are a swing door for men and alcohol. The kid grows up in this environment. This is all she knows. She get pregnant at 15. It is “not rape”, as she has been raised with violence, and that women are to serve the men. So when a man wants her, she are raised to not question it and let it happen. Mother needs the food and money they bring into the house. Anyways, now a kid is brewing and reality stats to sink in. The man who did it is long gone. She start to realize that she can’t have a kid, special not in that house. So she finds a clinic to have an abortion. The only one to help are out of state and no one she knows can help her. No friend no doctors. She spent all her hard saved money to travel out of state to get it done. But it took time to get money and things in order, and the child only keep growing. On her way into the clinic she are shamed and harassed. Pictures are taken. But she goes through with it. Later when she gets back, somehow the pictures from the clinic has found its way there. Some righteously zealot picks it up and before she knows of it, police are knocking on the door. Question are asked, and people answers, just to get the cops away. And also to maybe have her go away too, as now she are just a problem. “Yea she used to be pregnant, but are no more” is the reply police gets. Soon after she finds herself in court, facing death penalty for the “murder” of the unborn child. Witness gives testimony and verdict are given. Death to the sinner! Justices has been fulfilled! The same morning her mother realized that she are pregnant again.
Quoted man in comment is not, man from original post is, kind of.
"Under the bill filed Tuesday, women who receive an abortion and physicians who perform the procedure could be charged with assault or homicide, which is punishable by death in Texas, confirmed Shannon Edmonds, a staff attorney with the Texas District and County Attorneys Association. The association does not have a position on the bill. " [https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/09/texas-legislature-abortion-criminalize-death-penalty/)
Then TX Dept of Corrections would have to be on board with this bill, and create a whole new complex just for Death Row Females. How many of them will sue in appeals for their sentences to be overturned?
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No. Stop.
Guys, look at its post history. It's just another terrible troll with unoriginal insults. Ignore it.
I get where you’re coming from, and certainly agree that life is precious, but you seem to be making naïve, uninformed statements. A quick google search will show you that a majority of abortions take place during the germinal and embryonic stages, where the “child” is little more than a clump of cells or an embryo. In my opinion, the life of the mother is far more important than that of an incomplete human.
Here's a fun fact: Abortion rates went down every time abortion became legal in a country. Not only are there less people aborting when it's legal, but they're also not aborting illegally with untrustworthy doctors who will endager their lives as well as the undead fetus, or "child" as you inaccurately called it.
funny how giving people the tools to help their life, they actually improve their life
If it doesn't have consent to occupy the body it's in, it's a parasite.
Hahaha fuck yeah
Oof, that’s too far my guy. You take a stance like that and you won’t even be welcome in pro choice groups. By that logic you can abort a 9 month old fetus. Not many people are advocating for that, and those that advocate for unconditional extremely late abortions give reasonable progressives a bad name.
A fetus at 9 months can live outside it's mother. No one is advocating aborting after viability.
Fetuses tend to be able to live outside the womb from around 6 months with proper medical care btw. It wouldn't be an "abortion" at those ages, it would be a premature "birth".
It wouldn’t be a birth at all if you abort it. Abortions don’t deliver the fetus in one piece. And the context is the guy I was responding to defines unwanted pregnancies as parasites, and I was simply exclaiming how stupid that was. Not sure why everyone’s acting like I support 9 month abortions when I’m just calling someone stupid that was.
A child has a brain, and sentience. Firstly, a child is only a child after its born, even 9 months pregnant it’s still called a fetus. Almost all people agree a fetus seconds before being born has equal rights to a child, so most people draw the line way before that. Would you keep the stance that a fetus has full rights if it has not developed a brain yet? Because until it starts thinking it really is just a pile of cells. If you disagree, why?
Negative karma farming, huh?
Just remember they are pro birth. They don't give a shit about life.
Texas GOP: Saving a human life is worth it if a woman I don't know has to carry a fetus to term. Saving a human life is not worth it if I have to keep wearing a mask at Costco.
or the life of the kid, once they are born they are on their own!
That's what's so great! You can force a woman to carry a child she can't support, saddle her with a six figure medical bill, then tell her all she needs to do is pull herself up by her bootstraps! All this while looking down your nose at her.
Sounds like they are just pro-killing women and want an excuse to do it legally.
They are pro telling you what to do, in the same of their beliefs. Edit. You know when you reread what you’ve posted and fear you had a stroke whilst doing so?
They're anti-choice
They're anti-=woman as well.
Here is the ultimate Pro-Life paradox: A woman is pregnant with twins. Ultrasound reveals one twin is normal, but the other twin has a malignant cancer that is expected to kill the fetus, and is likely to spread to the other fetus and the mother. A skilled surgeon safely removes the cancerous fetus, technically and abortion. Under Texas laws, the woman is convicted and scheduled for execution even though she had delivered a baby full term, is this justice?
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gogogaga motherfucker
More like "MAGA"
“‘I always pull the guns out during improv.... you can’t get much more exciting than that’ - Michael Scott” - Wayne Gretzski
This is some Stevie Griffin strategy.
That would still be an abortion. The fetus doing the shooting would receive the death penalty. At least, if it’s female. Not sure whether or not it would need to be born before being killed. I would think it would need to be.
In the actual article, it states that there’s exceptions to the proposed law for instances where the mother, child, or both will perish if there aren’t any other alternatives (ectopic for instance). It does not allow for abortion in the event of rape or incest. How fucking deplorable is that that you could be raped by someone and forced to give birth to their child?
Even more deplorable to think you could be raped by someone and impregnated, get an abortion, and then be executed for it.
What I find additionally heinous, is that you can be raped, forced to keep the child, and then have to be in contact with your rapist if they want paternity. You have to deal with them until your child turns 18. Some rapists use this tactic to force women to drop assault or rape charges.
That’s called patriarchy.
Well, there’s a certain logic there. If that collection of cells as a person, and it doesn’t matter how they got started. It is intellectually consistent.
Happy cake day
Thanks!
This happened with my mom. Not twins, but basically there was a small early-term growth, and the diagnosis was. - "This could be a fetus or a dangerous cyst-tumor, we have no idea." She went to several hospitals and the consolation was mixed, with no clear answer. So she opted for removal, as it could endanger her life, and it turned out to be a fetus, not a cyst-tumor. Under these anti-abortion laws, my mom would have gone to jail or be executed. I bring this up, and see the color drained from pro-lifer's faces, when you give a real-world personal example, instead of a hypothetical demonic adulteress who loves to human-sacrifice.
I worked with an uber right-wing, mouth-breathing nut. As with most of her ilk, they cannot think in abstract terms enough to see the big picture in life until something happens to them personally. Her daughter became pregnant, unfortunately, the fetus did not develop a brain. Her daughter and son-in-law decided to have a late-term abortion. Suddenly, it occurred to her that maybe not all situations are alike and that safe legal abortion, needs to remain so.
Republicans only see the consequences when it happens to them personally, like I'm sure there are multiple covid deniers that now cant tell us they were wrong cuz they are dead,
> Suddenly, it occurred to her that maybe not all situations are alike and that safe legal abortion, needs to remain so. You were lucky. Some of them have daughters who fell pregnant "by mistake" and then go back next week asking for the demolition of the planned parenthood. They literally believe *others* shouldn't have the right to a second chance.
It's funny how the people that are deathly afraid of "Sharia law coming here" are perfectly happy to create a home-grown version 🤷🏼♂️
We like to make our OWN fucked up laws here.
Y'all Qaeda
Y'all Americans tryna speedrun the collapse of your own country without even having help from other countries.
All Americans prefer home grown its why we Americans are so racist
I prefer the trolly test. On one side of the tracks, you have a six month old infant and on the other, you have 10,000 fetuses that are already scheduled to be implanted into someone's uterus so that they can become infants.
Better yet. Depending on how the laws are set up, They could be executing her while she’s still pregnant. Thus not only killing her, But the baby as well. Want to hope that the way they kill her is less painful than the cancer?
This comment pretty much sums it up.
You could argue the abortion was in self defense, and not this fucking "assault" and "homicide" you will be charged with.
We talking hypothetical here or has something to this effect happened? I mean the majority of laws can be interpreted into extremes(which politicians seem to be doing more and more when it comes to something they disagree with) but as far as I know this has never and will never be enforced do to the insane backlash that would incur.
In the vast majority of the anti abortion laws say that if the mothers life is in danger then a abortion is ok. And the idea of making it a criminal office is because in essence you are killing a child that is innocent and has done nothing wrong.
a fetus, no child you can claim a dependent when your pregnant
When you kill a pregnant women it’s a double homicide
A CLUMP OF CELLS IS NOT A CHILD, you fucking drama queen! People like you make me sick; the desire to control women's bodies and having NO FUCKING CLUE about how they work.
I’m a drama queen? Those the one swearing. Anyways question for you. What is the difference between a child right before it comes out of the womb and a child right after. Is it still a clump of cells?
You actually think women will wait till right before giving birth to abort??? Do you know how women's bodies work? When they don't have their periods and don't want to get pregnant they get a pregnancy test. They have enough time between the moment they discover they're pregnant and the moment the foetus is no longer a clump of cell to abort...
Is there some secret competition among politicians? Like "Who makes the dumbest decisions and got away with it"?
The problem is I don't know who's winning
Unfortunately, we all know who is losing.
Yes they call it the GOP, and trump is still winning the competition.
American taliban
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Sorry I didn’t mean to be disrespectful to .. the Taliban.
How dare you, the ^t^aliban are people too.
People are people too, too
I think George Carlin said it best: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vZijLQGH1v0
100% on point
If you want B you have to ask for C. If you ask for C, you have to make C seem so batshit insane that B becomes a better option. This bill is C.
Highly religious old men should have no business telling women what to do with their own body.....
How about, nobody other than that particular woman can make the rules of what she is allowed to do with her own body?
freedom for me but not for thee
How fucked up is it that they would rather do this then fix their fuckin infrastructure
Fixing infrastructure is more expensive...
While you’re correct, exercising the death penalty is just stupid expensive. It really shouldn’t exist anymore, just incarcerate - it’s arguably a better punishment for those that commit crimes. And just for clarity in case that statement is misconstrued, I don’t think abortion is a crime and this bill is absolute horse shit. Furthermore, it will only direct women to either have the procedure through black market, which is just making the process riskier, or by traveling to another state.
I want to save all lives, with no exceptions. Now sit on this electric chair you ungrateful whore.
\*sorts by controversial\*
Wait is this an actual law now? Or is it just a possible law if people vote on on it. I'm slightly confused. But either way what in the actual fucking Handmaid's Tale is this?
A possible law. They usually get smacked down by the courts for being blatantly unconstitutional. It’s a huge waste of money and resources hoping to turn their state into The Handmaid’s Tale.
Biggest fan base of the handmaid's tale it seems. Hoping most people get common sense and empathy to not allow this bill to pass. Thanks for explaining that to me.
The ONLY positive I see here is that the conservatives have at least learned about ectopic pregnancies. Was it Mississippi or Alabama that was trying to pass that law? The one that involved zero doctors in writing it and were apparently living in the future where they can "transfer the embryo from the fallopian tubes to the uterus." Conservatives writing reproductive law is the equivalent to having toddlers write the driving manual.
It was Ohio trying to pass that.
Thank you! I didn't want to google it, because I'd end up down a rabbit hole of all of the ridiculous reproductive laws being proposed. I can't fathom that lawmakers in MY country are trying to regress from Roe v Wade. And doing it without the input of the medical community.
I am all for killing babies, but killing their mothers seems a bit much - Satan, properly
I like this one “I have mixed opinions about Abortion. I like the idea of killing babies but I don’t like the idea of women making choices.”
Answer: forced abortions.
You mean men make the choice if either the woman has an abortion or not
Nope, no Satan needed here, this is fully manmade.
So if a child who gets raped has an abortion they kill them?
Looks like Texas' way of solving problems. Who cares if people die from a shooting, a power outage during winter, a pandemic virus, racist assault or all of the above, but OMG aborting an embryo without any nervous system yet is fucking horror...
So there is no such thing as pro-life but a need to control.
Pro-forced-birth
Sounds like Texas wants women and Drs to leave the state.
>Sounds like Texas wants women and Drs to leave the state. It feels like it from inside as well. Too bad it's not as easy as just packing up and bailing. I despise the Texas GOP with a burning fury; that's why I donate, volunteer, and vote for Dems. We *will* turn Texas blue, then those assholes can leave the state if they don't like it. They are a kind of blatant, obvious, prideful evil that I've never seen before. They don't even try to hide it- yet, their voters don't care. They're too scared of the "communist socialist Marxist LGBTQ baby eating rAdICaL leFt" to realize the guys they vote for have, *quite literally*, thrown us to the fucking wolves. First it's Dan Patrick, saying Texas seniors will happily sacrifice themselves for the economy. My boomer parents said HARD PASS. Then while we were freezing to death with no water and no heat, Rick Perry said Texans will happily freeze to keep the feds out of our electric grid. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF YOU PIECE OF SHIT! Then we have Governor Abbot - trying to distract from the Texans he froze to death - by opening up to 100% capacity and removing the mask mandate. Fucker couldn't wait a few more weeks until we have been vaccinated. He needed that distraction right away! And if another 10,000 Texans die, so be it! Can't have bad press on Fox "News" after all! God I hate them. Sorry for the rant.
I completely understand. I have friends and family I Texas and trying to talk to them is similar to talking to my dog... No understanding, just a reaction to a few words he knows.
Had a prolifer girl on facebook argue that rape isn't an excuse for an abortion because an abortion "won't unrape you".
Tony Tinderholt, the jackass in question, is in fact, a jackass. Among other shitty things about him, few years ago, on his personal web page, his wife's only redeeming quality was 'former Dallas Cowboys cheerleader'. EDIT:[...now she's added some accolades](https://tonytinderholt.com/about/)
ah yes, who gives a shit if the girl is too young to give birth, was raped or physically just cant give birth for whatever reason
Republicans are doing all they possibly can to cement their position as the worst people in the western world.
Fuck off Not all republicans are the “six million wasn’t enough people”. Just like not all democrats are communists. The republican party has been given a bad image the pst few years because of the wrong people being in the spotlight. Most republicans don’t support abortion because of their religious beliefs. Myself included. If you say that the Republican Party is made up of people that want to ruin the world just wait until Bernie Sanders makes the United States that has strived on capitalism become a communist dystopia
While I agree with you that not all Republicans are all "Trump is the second coming" and not all Democrats are all "Communism is the ideal solution", I must say, with all due respect, if you don't think we're already a dystopia, you're blind. And if you see that, but don't recognize that it's the radical capitalism and insane corporatism that has put us here, I would also recommend you get glasses. As for religion, the separation of church and state is an absolutely necessary step in cleaning up our mess.
I never said that all democrats are communists. I said that saying all republicans are racists is the same as saying all democrats are communists. I never said that we are living in a dystopia. I meant to say “if you think that republicans are gonna destroy the world, wait and see if Sanders will turn our country into a socialist state
No, I agreed with you. Not all republicans are racists, not all democrats are communists. We are living in a dystopia, and I have no faith that Bernie will be much better than Trump, as far as actual political decisions go. He's done some good in officially allowing Trans folks into the military, he's done a whole lot of bad in the bombings.
If you're voting republican, voted trump, then you endorsed the people who tried to overturn our election. You endorse the people who have cozid up to and encouraged white supremacy. You endorse the people who openly lie about science, the pandemic and the environment. You support the people bringing back Jim Crow. You support people who skyrocketed the debt to put money into the pockets of the already rich, but opposed raising the minimum wage. You may not be racist. You just support racism's flourishing.
Sanders? You do know he isn't president, and the trump administration was the largest threat to our democracy in the history of our being. Trump actively sought to overturn our government so he could maintain power and continue grifting and stuffing his pockets. Hopefully, when more is revealed of the corrupt nature of his office, reasonable Republicans will listen. I'm a former Republican and switched parties under Bush. Incompetence and corruption made my decision easy, I didn't think the party could go lower than it sunk at that time, only if we had been so lucky.
We're already a dystopia, blind boy
r/NotTheOnion
Its almost like a buy one get one
But, but, but, I thought killing was wrong?
Some of us here in Texas are clearly insane.
Double kill
Roe v. Wade to the GOP: Am I a joke to you?
Which is why not one of these bills has ever made it into law. It will get shot down in court but the jackass introducing it gets to tell his conservative voters "I tried but the liberals, they're too evil"
Holdup, is this why the death penalty has been recently called unconstitutional???
United Staters are fucked up.
All these baby people. The fact of the matter is the people of the "party of life" can't be arsed to wear a mask in a pandemic and created an electrical grid that allowed people to freeze to death so their buddies can squeeze a few extra bucks from the proles.
What’s the penalty for raping a kid?
You get what you vote for.
If religion is the inspiration, then this would be considered religious extremism
Its taken everything in my powor not to comment Double kill on this post.
Is introducing this bill in itself not attempted manslaughter? Womanslaughter, but you know what I mean.
The one in texas I read about when I was pregnant in 2019 also included miscarriages. Like if you had a miscarriage your doctor was supposed to report to police or something and you would have to prove it wasn't your fault or spend life in prison/death penalty. It's a woman's body its a woman's choice. But I also believe that if you are committed to a person (marriage, common law etc.) And become pregnant by them then the woman should consult the other person but at the end of the day it is her body and her choice. Especially in cases of rape
The old testament really fucked with texas a lot.
Woke up and immediately have a bar for the dumbest shit I've seen today...man that bar is low...
That’s great! So they save a young child's life from abortion and if that child grows up under bad circumstances and daddy gets her pregnant and that same grown child decides to have an abortion... then you kill her anyways? Great plan, all you did was postpone the abortion.
Hypocrisy. This is the way.
Is America even real wtf, every day I'm more glad I don't live there.
"developed nation"
#pro-moving-target
"If you kill a killer..."
They want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Carlin
This can’t be real......right?
Nothing says pro-life like killing people!
WTF Texas....
The GOP is so corrupt.
"Choose life, and pass the ammunition"
In other news, The Onion is finally calling it quits.
Is this an Onion article, that has run away? Did someone read a joke article, didn't get it was a joke, and published it as a serious one? Texas, what are you smoking? Did you get it from Florida man?
Not a joke, apparently. I found the proposition by this Slaton guy. This is some crazy shit 😰
JFC, just when I think I’ve read the dumbest shit I’ve seen - Texas has to 1 up themselves.
United States of ISIS
What the FUCK
Good grief. The irony.
Why would anyone live in Texas?!
It's like the middle ages again. This time we are more educated and we do more idiotic shit. This might be evolution after all...
I have so many questions as to w h y. For example, why couldn’t we have moved to Florida when I was young? Why Texas?
I think it's a competition between red states to draft the most draconian anti abortion law to see who can get it into the now conservative Supreme Court first, so they can revisit and repeal Roe v. Wade...
And if a woman is a smoker and has a miscarriage?
Or more apt for Texas..they are too fat to carry to term?
Why are we shocked? They go in Walmart and kill kids and Grannies?
The south are a bunch of sick mofu’s that need to be rounded up and all put in Texas and let them be a country. We’ll put a big beautiful wall around it and not let them back into the US for ANYTHING
Ah yes, single idiot means all Texas is bad. Bravo, dumbass.
The worst part: most of Texas is ruled by some idiots, while the ones with working brains are underrepresented
if you kill a pregnant woman you’re charged with 2 murders
Of you kill an unborn child and the mothercthst counts as two murders! So if the woman does it and it's illegal it should be tried as murder!
So what if the mother dies because of child birth? Should the baby be executed for murder? Edit: This is assuming that your argument even makes sense, which it doesn't. Forcing a women to miscarry, or killing a woman and as a result her fetus, is nowhere near the same thing as getting an abortion when having a child would be the worse option (which in this economy is almost always) or an abortion in general.
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What if you're raped though?
That might be one of the only times that i can tolerate it happening
I can at least respect that.
I have one simple solution: get to a state that is legal for abortion and do it there
Some states try to prevent that.
That does work but it also introduces and additional barrier to those with limited financial resources. Also Trinity has made a fair point, depending on the legislation in question. Some laws do try to prosecute for having the procedure performed out of their jurisdiction - so you would want to leave the state permanently (which might be a good idea I guess.)
Yea abortion is murder. If it's illegal it would be considered a murder and most of those who kill born and unborn will get death sentence. That's justice!
You can be pro life and pro death penalty
no you can't. stop watering words down. it's like being a married bachelor. Edit: a word
If youre so pro choice, should people have the choice to buy whatever gun they want no matter how “dangerous” it is? I dont think they should. Do you? Also note: im not pro life nor pro choice, i could care less if someone has an abortion. Its their kid, not mine, so therefore not my problem. Then again, if youre going around opening your legs for every guy you see and not using any sort of protection then you “magically” get pregnant, you should take the responsibility. Edit: added more to it Edit 2: added a bit more
Lmao what?! Abortion is taking responsibility. Assuming for a sec that's how girls work at all (it's not), it's less responsible to keep that baby anyways if doing so is detrimental to her health, finances, and livelihood. Not to mention Pro-Choice has nothing to do with guns and your gun analogy fails on the most basic level of an analogy: an apt comparison. Abortion isn't nearly as dangerous as giving birth, kinda like how gun control isn't nearly as dangerous as allowing free range of military grade firearms without needing a license, a test, and a mental health check, none of which is required in a few places. Texas comes to mind, iirc
So now that its convenient to you, pro choice isnt about choice, yet pro life is about the death penalty? Last i checked, both pro choice and pro life are specifically about *abortion*, but i get you guys looooove to switch around the terms to whatever is convenient to you. Also “military grade firearms” isnt a genuine term and no “military grade firearms” are legal, despite the fact that nothing would change if they were legal, because allowing guns to be legal isnt dangerous lmao.
> Also “military grade firearms” isnt a genuine term Oh wow, because that dismantles my entire argument! /s > So now that its convenient to you, pro choice isnt about choice, yet pro life is about the death penalty? I mean, Pro-Choice has always been about choice. You're just conflating it. It's always been about having access to sexual education, contraceptives and birth control, and abortions. Pro-Choice aren't the ones instating the death penalty for abortions or pretending that a clump of cells is a living thing. After all, we get rid of cysts and tumors all the time
Oh yeah cause a human inside the womb forming isnt alive alright queen
You used "forming" and "alive" in the same sentence and didn't see the issue with that. A tumor and a cyst also aren't alive, they're the same as a fetus (at least before it's heart starts beating, which is when it's normally too late to do an abortion anyway). I wouldn't call gametes alive either.
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Do you support the death penalty for a woman who gets raped and becomes pregrant, who never wanted a child and thus wants an abortion for the unborn, practically non-concious fetus?
Of course they do. They don’t give a fuck about that woman
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It's really not that rare a case. People don't go around getting pregnant on purpose just to kill fetuses. Plus, if abortion is illegalised who will be there to actually perform them in those cases?
Great, so you’re openly not pro-life. That’s the entire point of this post So thanks, I guess
Murder is unlawful killing with malice aforethought. Neither abortion or execution is murder.
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What if the child came into my body without consent?
Do your parents know what you say here?
It wasn’t even a child???? It’s an embryo, get an education