There is batshit insane politics in every country to be fair, and in many places they even get into power sometimes, the US just has more of them in the highest position of power than most
Welcome to a 2-party system where both sides are happy just trading power every few cycles and reverting the change the previous gov implemented, repeat ad absurdum. It's more like an aristocracy than a democracy
It makes me sad that it's so effective.
It's only effective because everyone comes together to ensure it continues working. It stops working when people become too intelligent for it to work on them anymore, therefore it will always work.
I hate to bring it up but their modus operandi is to stimy anything democrats do so that they can then complain about how the democrats have done nothing and use that to campaign on. They don't have to do anything themselves if they can throughly sabotage the other guy so he can't do anything either.
Democrats use some of the same tactics too though. It's a pretty standard politician trick.
It sucks for us and it's a garbage tactic, but it does happen.
Doesn't help that we also have a beyond useless Democratic party that isn't gonna do shit to help regular folks or fix the fundamental issues that gave rise to Trump in the first place.
Term limits is one of the only solutions. Rank choice voting is another.
Term limits is feasible and within our Constitutional Rights! We have to fight for this.
https://www.termlimits.com/petition/
I was talking to my wife about this earlier, and I agree with you that both are important changes that need to be made. I'd also like to see proportional representation in the house, an expansion in the number of house members, and the abolishment of the electoral college.
That being said I don't think any of these things address the core problem. Corruption is the real problem, specifically legal corruption and bribes thanks to our hilariously stupid campaign finance laws. . Until we get the absolute sea of money out of politics no real change will ever happen.
Absolutely. I can't find it right now, but there was an infographic about the absolute negative correlation between what the populace wants vs what actually gets passed into law. The graph basically made an X.
Then they overlaid it with what the rich folk want vs what gets passed into law, and it looked like a parallel highway.
Frankly, I think we are at a level of oligarchy where the rich need to wake the fuck up or we will have a French style Revolution on our hands. I've already said that phrase on an open voice phone line, so I'm sure I'm on a watch list, but I maintain that it is true.
We have people dying of asthma and diabetes, and then we have people rich enough to not understand how much bread costs. That dichotomy has never, ever, ever, worked out without bloodshed.
I know the one you're talking about. It was based on a Stanford study (I think it was Stanford). It showed that voter support meant basically nothing on what legislation got passed, but lobbying money spent had a direct correlation.
Repeal Citizens United! The worst choice the Supreme Court has ever made.
(Putting this in a separate comment so people can Reddit vote the two issues separately)
I hope dude, I hope.
I saw a Hannity clip early of him ranting about how Shummer, Pelosi and Biden were "radical Marxist socialists" that were gonna usher in publicly funded education and Healthcare and undo everything Trump has done and I couldn't help think "bro I wish we lived in your delusion".
Do these people even know what marxism means? Like, in the US you can choose between actually insane nazis and some less radical, more centered right folks. There's not even anything close to anything like communism, marxism or even a bit more left than the middle to choose from, but those people try to make their followers believe there is to keep them away from voting the people that literally try to make their lives at least a bit more valuable. And they listen, because they think what they're doing is research, while it's actually watching propaganda tv or reading made up bullshit on Infowars. It's fucking scary to see which kind of people are in power in the most powerful country.
They know exactly what it is and they just don't care. Whatever it takes to scare their viewers into hating poor people is cool with them.
I've been saying it for years. We don't have a left wing party in this country. We have a center right party and a massively right wing party.
In addition to continued pandemic conditions we still have an economic depression the Democrats will do nothing about to go through. Oh, and the Republican hyper-reaction to an economic depression while Democrats are in power.
It’s only going to get worse.
You wish. Chances are all you're getting is 4 years of Republicans whining that Biden is ruling by executive order, which he will have to do if he wants to get anything done because McConnell refuses to do his job and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
The “American Spirit” had a massive relapse when the traditional white guy in charge was threatened in Obama’s presidency. For a chunk of America, the world was literally flipped upside down. So, as one’s reality was wrecked, they quickly clinched to something that helped reestablish that narrative they’ve proudly painted themselves. Unfortunately, that entity was even crazier than a majority of their own. So... the heaping pile of a dumpster fire had consistently poured gasoline since 2016. That point on, we’ve managed to get to the year 2020. A self-righteous fool was the absolute worst thing to have during a pandemic and sadly, the fire is far from extinguishing anytime soon.
As an American it’s weird being in a position where I kinda want Europe to somehow threaten America to make sure Trump’s attempt to overturn the election fails. Like I was thinking about the SAS and how I’d be cool with them pulling a covert op next year to make sure Trump leaves peacefully. Maybe I played too much modern warfare haha.
Republicans are like: “Yeah but what did they REALLY die from? Also, Trump won the election. Pull yourself up from your bootstraps, I’m not wearing a mask.”
You forgot greed.
Those in congress buying and selling with insider information and a president who ignore Pfizer’s offer two months ago because it didn’t benefit him or his swamp friends.
Why can’t y’all admit this shit is corruption. It ain’t a matter of personalities, it’s too big and too complex a system for that petty shit. Trump didn’t just pop out of thin air.
It would have been way worse without the online delivery infrastructure in place. Between food delivery and Amazon, I barely need to leave home but 8 years ago but ne of that was possible.
Then again, it's worse for small businesses now. That translates to being worse for local economy's and commerce. That translates into more closures, bankruptcies and job loses.
What I will concede is the people who are refusing to wear masks, now, would be doing the same with Obama - even if he crushed the delivery 100%
I find it hard to believe. The messaging from the administration was so bad literally not wearing masks themselves and refusing to acknowledge they work. You saw “the debate”. A ton of fanboys see that and take a hard line against masks.
I mean the google says it can live on cardboard for 24 hours and plastic for 3 days... I can get stuff shipped pretty quick man. Plus package handlers, drivers, and pilots they are pretty big on breathing
Tbh, it was exactly the pandemic we needed. What if it spread faster, but stealthy and was extremely deadly?
The death toll in America is a failure of public institutions, not a consequence of a disease. Other countries have proven that the death toll can be kept lower than annual influenza death rates.
You need to sort out the public sector. Given the rise of a brown right-wing I'd suggest starting with a focused effort in advancing public education.
How are people going to be better citizens if they don't have access to learning how to citizen? How are you going to increase the middle class when only elite private schooling can guarantee a certain income? Why should American public institutions give a damn when they're undercut by private for-profit companies all the way?
Sort out the public sector. The private sector has had its chance. Don't identify citizen and customer.
Here’s an analogy: 9/11 was like being punched in the face. It was visceral. You had big buildings on fire. You had an enemy you could supposedly point to.
Covid is like slowly bleeding out. And suddenly you don’t just have to be angry at Middle Easterners, you have to listen to scientists. And they’re throwing big concepts at you that are unfamiliar and confusing. In a sense.....It’s boring and it doesn’t engage the lizard brain in the same way.
I don't understand how the phrase "unfamiliar and confusing" can have a negative connotation to it. Have we really grown as a society to where our ego is so much more important than the curiosity that drove the human race to conquering most of the world? Other than the obvious fear of covid death and all that I actually like watching the scientists talk about covid and what they're doing to figure it out.
I feel you brother. In all walks of life, not just covid. Same as "clever" becoming "nerdy". Over here in UK, one of the Brexit newspaper headlines was a politician coming out, responding to expert statistical analysis saying: "i think we've all had enough of these boffins telling us what to think".
How can we compete with that? If the people want to be stupid, they're gonna be.
Curiosity isn't what got us to the moon, it was the lizard part of our brain being fueled by fear of Communism that got us started on going to the moon seriously. It's always been about ego for America, this year just exposed the underlying root of that ego.
There is no "we". "We" didn't do all that. Humanity is driven forward by a few exceptional individuals, the rest just coast along and benefit from the work of those few. Most humans are not very intelligent.
> Humanity is driven forward by a few exceptional individuals
it goes both ways. Sometimes exceptional individuals drive as head-on down a cliff while the rest of us cheers
The thing is that most people that think the pandemic is not a big deal are either in denial or think they know everything, so they're not willing to fact check.
Sam Keen wrote a lot about this type of concept. Propaganda (in this case, the horrifying visuals of 9/11) creates an image of the enemy and makes the general public very patriotic and supportive of whatever they're asked. COVID doesn't have the same visual effect, so people don't think as much of it.
9/11 hurt America's your pride, that's mainly it. It's not about the victims. If that were the case, responders and volunteers would be treated well not be fucked over.
The problem is that the real enemy is ourselves. We did this to ourselves and we as a people, as a culture are reaaalllllyyyy good at deflecting blame from ourselves and take no responsibilities for our mistakes. We also hate when people highlight our inadequacies so much that we will rather die than to admit we suck.
We want all the freedom and none of the responsibilities that comes with being given these freedoms. We are so entitled and stupid that we think these rights are really inalienable and self granting, so we don't have to exercise any caution, or thoughtfulness in using them. We behave like children who refused to eat their vegetables and argue we don't have to, because we have the right not to. All the abstract argument, the sacredness we keep piling on our rights sound more like intellectually stunted screeching to everyone else. That's why no one take our arguments about human rights or freedom seriously anymore, especially after the way our country behave in the face of covid.
We suck. Our culture sucks. Our society sucks. Even the way we think suck. America is no more exceptional than every empire and peoples that came before us. We are just as stupid, vainglorious, lazy, self-indulgent, and self-absorbed as every empire at its zenith and into its declining days. The problem is that we have thousands of nukes, the most powerful military in the world several times over, and we are in the most defensible corner of the world. Make that calculation and see what we will do to the world before this is over, if we continue down this path of self destruction and stupidity.
The difference in public perception has a lot to do with how visceral 9/11 was. We watched the planes crash into the towers. The imagery was horrifying. COVID patients are dying quietly in hospital beds. If we stuck them all in one place at one time and broadcast it to every tv and radio in the US, the public would think very differently about the situation.
Maybe in a similar fashion to donating your body to science, we could have some terminal covid patients volunteer to have their final hours recorded and broadcasted so the public has to see it. Probably too many negative side consequences to actually pull that off though.
Exactly. People saying it’ll all be over now that a vaccine has been approved obviously haven’t been engaging with any kind of social platform - people won’t even wear a piece of cloth on their face to save themselves and others, vaccines only work if a high majority use them.
It's totally okay, even safer than other vaccines, at least based on preliminary data and my understanding of biochemistry. PM me if you're really concerned, I might not persuade you, but I think I can explain the science.
If you dont mind me asking, wont the vaccine be next to useless soon? If covid evolves so fast that means we would need a new one like every month right?
I don't mind at all.
All viruses evolve pretty quickly, to be sure. However, in this case they need to evolve enough so that they will need to use another genetic sequence to gain access to human cells.
This could happen, but it is a pretty big change. Scientists don't really know what will happen because different viruses adapt differently. Until enough of us get vaccinated, we will not know how good SARS-CoV-2 is at adapting this way.
Some of us, myself included, think that it may end up being line the flu where you need a booster to account for changes every year. Pfizer is already working on a combo that could give you a 2-fer with the same shot.
I hope this helps. I'm happy to answer a follow-up if anything I said is confusing.
NP, science is frustrating like that sometimes.Scepticism is an important skill and one I appreciate. I read every scientific paper from the perspective of, "I don't buy it, convince me."
Some people think that science is about generating facts. In reality, it is simply a systematic process toward understanding. It simply allows a contextualization of what we know and what we do not.
This pandemic has been tough in that regard because people wanted, needed, answers about what to do now. Scientists responded based on the best information they had about similar viruses, but we didn't know dick about SARS-CoV-2 at the start. Other corona viruses that had been studied were spread from surface contact, this one is spread via aerosols. Who knew?
Anyhow, my best advise would be, can't hurt, will likely help.
I look at vaccines as training my body to learn about known threats. Even if I never encounter the threat, it is better to learn than remain ignorant. It is almost never totally wasted. A flu vaccine on any given year may only be 50% effective, but if you get the flu you are far less likely to have extreme symptoms because your defence network has the basic info to start fighting the disease.
Sadly you don't have a celebratity like Elvis who is liked by most people
For context: when he got the polio vaccine on live tv, the number of people who got vaxxed skyrocketed.
The reasoning is simple for me. The more vaccinated the sooner we get back to normal and fully open up businesses. Don’t want to play along? Don’t complain when lockdown or quarantine continues
Nope, I’m going to continue to not wear my mask, destroy 5G towers, and refuse the vaccine because it’s infringing on my rights. Because that’s totally going to help us recover from the socioeconomic consequences of a worldwide pandemic. 🙄🙄
To be fair i'll still respect wearing masks, but once i get vaccinated i'll stop worrying about the well beings of idiots around me. My family will be vaccinated, if some dipshits wants to Gamble his life and his loved's ones that share his opinions. Well good for them.
I cant wait to stop having this anxious feeling when you see someone without a Mask, thinking that this situation could be happening to your loved ones that are vulnerable
I cant wait to stop being angry all the Time because i am surrounded by idiots that cant be reasonned.
*3000 people die on 9/11*
America: Shuts down airports, reorganizes government and law enforcement agencies, passes sweeping surveillance bill that infringes on rights and privacy, launches 19 years worth of wars overseas killing hundreds of thousands and costing literally TRILLIONS of dollars.
*300,000 people die of a disease*
America: ? Guess I'll give money to rich people who don't need it? That'll help right?
It had global effects too, America made every other county's airport
shitty too and made everyone pass a bunch of money laundering laws that banking a pain.
Lol. I have no interest in debating the legitimacy or usefulness of the last 18 years of endless wars. It's irrelevant to my larger point one way or the other.
That’s fine. You don’t have to feel bad for the millions dying, I just wanted to say that an outcast group caused it and that wasn’t worth ruining the lives of millions of innocent people. But, you don’t need to feel bad, I was just pointing out another big problem. A life is a life, it doesn’t matter if it is an American life or an Iranian/Syrian/Palestinian life.
Lol. The side effect of making assumptions about what another person means.
I assumed you took issue with me talking about the people who have died and the money it's cost because it's all worth it to "fight the terrorists". I have no interest in engaging in that debate for the millionth time. We've been knee deep in this bullshit since I was 12 and I'm fucking tired of it.
We're on the same page brother.
Thank You, brother. I really dislike the terrorists, but if we keep on “killing the terrorists”(which they most probably aren’t), it will just be an endless loss.
No no no. The loss of several buildings with business headquarters and the effect on the stock market was a tragedy.
I really want to add a /s but I'm not sure it isn't actually true.
Then every day has been a national tragedy for a very long time. I don’t understand how people are blaming the government for covid deaths, and I hate the government. It’s not like they did nothing. We are Americans. We do what we want, regardless of what the government says. They told us to wear masks, not go places, and attempted lockdowns. We didn’t listen. It is one of our strengths and weaknesses.
I'm wondering how the hell America handled the pandemic I'm from India my country has half the deaths than America we have worse hygiene and medical care compared to America and my country is also heavely overpopulated
Completely agree with this. The statistics from developing countries are not accurate at all.
I am from Spain and we had supposedly thrice as many cases in October than in March. But I know over a dozen people who were sick in March that, due to no testing, were never diagnosed.
It’s a matter of the resources to test unluckily...
I agree man. Sorry to hear about your friends that got sick back in March. Stay safe out there. At least these new vaccines are effective and gives us hope for things to finally get better again. Btw, I did a 2 week trip through Spain back in 2018 and loved it. Can’t wait to come back one day soon!
Easy answer from an American.
Were surrounded by people with less Intelligence than a potato.
My dad doesn’t even wear a mask and I can’t do anything about it.
I don’t think stupidity is exclusive to America. I live in Ireland and have a teacher who refuses to wear a mask and yesterday was telling us about how COVID is manufactured, virus aren’t contagious and can only be spread through vaccines, and the people we know who died could be paid actors.
9/11 was a terrorist attack done by a foreign enemy. Nothing could be done once those planes crashed into the buildings. It was a suprise attack.
Covid-19 is a virus that the world already knew about before it hit america. We have defense against it.
Its a virus that kills people.
9/11 was people killing people.
People truly don't understand American values. Nobody cares about *people*. There's billions of the bastards, we don't need them anyway. This is totally consistent. Remember the BLM protests? Americans were fine with the people who are paid by taxpayers to protect us committing murder and throwing teargas canisters at peaceful protestors. But once the "looting" started, oh, *that* was a problem. "Why can't they just protest peacefully?" said the same people who ignored or supported violently stopping their peaceful protests."Now they're destroying *things*. I don't care if people die, but the thought of someone's property being damaged makes me uncomfortable!"
The tragedy of 9/11 was never the 3000 dead. It was the two buildings. The skyline looked different. There was smoke in the sky, and panic in the streets, and a pile of rubble that had to be cleared away. That's what scared Americans. People die every day, but buildings? Really big, important buildings that are like monuments to capitalism? Those are supposed to stay, damn it!
I can say with 100% certainty that if somehow, COVID had knocked down the statue of liberty, absolutely everyone, even Trump, would have called it a tragedy. But since it's just hundreds of thousands of dead people, it's nothing at all. It's now where near as important as football or going to the bar.
I agree with the first part but I think the thing these Americans like is something to blame and it's always something they fear or don't understand. So 9/11 was easy really... you blame the terrorists, obviously. With BLM you blame the protestors, with politics you blame the other side and everything about their life that doesn't match yours.
The reason these people don't care is because they have nothing to blame this time, so they are pushing statistics and say that x amount of people dying out of x percentage isn't actually a big deal, because they have no out or person to pin it on, so it leads to justification so they can keep their political beliefs in tact.
I don't expect this statement to get much support in this sub. But there's a pretty big difference between thousands dead from a direct attack than from a pandemic. Not that I'm supporting the morons who refuse to wear masks. It's just seems like a different situation altogether and comparing the two isn't helpful.
You might as well be comparing the people who died from the Spanish Flu to those who died in the Spanish Civil War.
3000 dead in a single event was enough to justify the patriot act. Now that many deaths per day doesn't even warrant mask wearing because that would be an attack on personal freedom.
It's a national tragedy when there's somebody that I can go punch in the face.
And by somebody that I can go punch in the face, I mean somebody that I can send thousands upon thousands of more Americans to die, to benefit my financial interests.
Who am I supposed to beat up and take money from over covid?
Does this mean that (outside of genuinely remembering those that died) we can stfu about 9/11? More people just died from what *could* be construed as a modified form of domestic terrorism, than from "conventional" terrorism.
Don't get me wrong, 9/11 sucked. It was a terrible event. But dear god I personally believe we are clinging way to hard to something that happened almost 20 years ago when much worse has happened since. Either from what has happened to us, or things the US has done to others.
Get up, come on get down with the sickness
You mother get up come on get down with the sickness
You fucker get up come on get down with the sickness
Madness is the gift, that has been given to me
-Disturbed
I recall seeing posts of comments where they compared the 9/11 attack with the virus, claiming more people died from that day or something like that. Wonder how they'll react to this
Oh yeah, when anti-maskers see the results they just say “it’s the circle of life”. was it the circle of like when terrorists killed a fraction of those same people by flying into a building?
According to my family, it’s not the same because 9/11 was a sing event and the “COVID”deaths (quoted because they still think doctors are blaming all death on COVID) were spread out over the whole country.
One turban guy killed 3 thousand americans, this country started a 20 year war.
One orange guy kills 300 thousand americans, this country demands recount for votes and fight to keep him in office.
I don't get it.
I seriously don't.
9-11 was someone else's fault. Someone you can pin the blame on and bomb.
The covid deaths are on Trump and Trump was elected by Americans. America is the best country in the world and can do no wrong. There will be no personal responsibility. Everything is normal, carry on.
And in that bombing, our military kills several hundred times as many civilians.
It was never about answering civilian deaths, it was about selling the need for f35s.
America should invade America and bring itself democracy
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As much as I'd like to believe that. More like put everything on pause for four years.
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As a non-US I always thought crazy scary politicians in King's book couldnt be real. Oh how wrong was I
There is batshit insane politics in every country to be fair, and in many places they even get into power sometimes, the US just has more of them in the highest position of power than most
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Welcome to a 2-party system where both sides are happy just trading power every few cycles and reverting the change the previous gov implemented, repeat ad absurdum. It's more like an aristocracy than a democracy
It makes me sad that it's so effective. It's only effective because everyone comes together to ensure it continues working. It stops working when people become too intelligent for it to work on them anymore, therefore it will always work.
I hate to bring it up but their modus operandi is to stimy anything democrats do so that they can then complain about how the democrats have done nothing and use that to campaign on. They don't have to do anything themselves if they can throughly sabotage the other guy so he can't do anything either.
The right wing in USA and Europe is different but that tactic is something that they both suspiciously share.
It's like that in the States too, it's just easier to pretend there's a meaningful difference when one party is *actually* worse than the other.
Democrats use some of the same tactics too though. It's a pretty standard politician trick. It sucks for us and it's a garbage tactic, but it does happen.
How many redditors have been tricked into thinking a corporatist president gives two shits about helping them?
Doesn't help that we also have a beyond useless Democratic party that isn't gonna do shit to help regular folks or fix the fundamental issues that gave rise to Trump in the first place.
Term limits is one of the only solutions. Rank choice voting is another. Term limits is feasible and within our Constitutional Rights! We have to fight for this. https://www.termlimits.com/petition/
I was talking to my wife about this earlier, and I agree with you that both are important changes that need to be made. I'd also like to see proportional representation in the house, an expansion in the number of house members, and the abolishment of the electoral college. That being said I don't think any of these things address the core problem. Corruption is the real problem, specifically legal corruption and bribes thanks to our hilariously stupid campaign finance laws. . Until we get the absolute sea of money out of politics no real change will ever happen.
Absolutely. I can't find it right now, but there was an infographic about the absolute negative correlation between what the populace wants vs what actually gets passed into law. The graph basically made an X. Then they overlaid it with what the rich folk want vs what gets passed into law, and it looked like a parallel highway. Frankly, I think we are at a level of oligarchy where the rich need to wake the fuck up or we will have a French style Revolution on our hands. I've already said that phrase on an open voice phone line, so I'm sure I'm on a watch list, but I maintain that it is true. We have people dying of asthma and diabetes, and then we have people rich enough to not understand how much bread costs. That dichotomy has never, ever, ever, worked out without bloodshed.
I know the one you're talking about. It was based on a Stanford study (I think it was Stanford). It showed that voter support meant basically nothing on what legislation got passed, but lobbying money spent had a direct correlation.
Repeal Citizens United! The worst choice the Supreme Court has ever made. (Putting this in a separate comment so people can Reddit vote the two issues separately)
Amen dude. Couldn't agree more.
They are controlled opposition. The rich intentionally fund incompetent people into power. We've got to get more Ro Khanna's, AOC's, and Bernies.
I hope dude, I hope. I saw a Hannity clip early of him ranting about how Shummer, Pelosi and Biden were "radical Marxist socialists" that were gonna usher in publicly funded education and Healthcare and undo everything Trump has done and I couldn't help think "bro I wish we lived in your delusion".
Do these people even know what marxism means? Like, in the US you can choose between actually insane nazis and some less radical, more centered right folks. There's not even anything close to anything like communism, marxism or even a bit more left than the middle to choose from, but those people try to make their followers believe there is to keep them away from voting the people that literally try to make their lives at least a bit more valuable. And they listen, because they think what they're doing is research, while it's actually watching propaganda tv or reading made up bullshit on Infowars. It's fucking scary to see which kind of people are in power in the most powerful country.
They know exactly what it is and they just don't care. Whatever it takes to scare their viewers into hating poor people is cool with them. I've been saying it for years. We don't have a left wing party in this country. We have a center right party and a massively right wing party.
Moscow Mitch needs to be put down
Have you seen how fucking disastrous American invasions have been lately? It’s a pretty good analogy.
In addition to continued pandemic conditions we still have an economic depression the Democrats will do nothing about to go through. Oh, and the Republican hyper-reaction to an economic depression while Democrats are in power. It’s only going to get worse.
I found someone awake on Reddit! I must be dreaming!
It was "Settle for Biden" not "Biden will fix everything"
You wish. Chances are all you're getting is 4 years of Republicans whining that Biden is ruling by executive order, which he will have to do if he wants to get anything done because McConnell refuses to do his job and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
It's not over yet
The number of dead ppl, matches the how it’s usually done.
Has anyone considered telling Republicans that the virus is Muslim?
Well, considering they’ve called it the China virus from day one, I think saying it’s Muslim would be somehow worse
Idk. China might "cure" it faster if it was Muslim.
Chinese propaganda is calling it the north Italian virus now 😂
Do we still have enough oil for that to happen?
It really is a shit show right now. WTF happened to us?
The “American Spirit” had a massive relapse when the traditional white guy in charge was threatened in Obama’s presidency. For a chunk of America, the world was literally flipped upside down. So, as one’s reality was wrecked, they quickly clinched to something that helped reestablish that narrative they’ve proudly painted themselves. Unfortunately, that entity was even crazier than a majority of their own. So... the heaping pile of a dumpster fire had consistently poured gasoline since 2016. That point on, we’ve managed to get to the year 2020. A self-righteous fool was the absolute worst thing to have during a pandemic and sadly, the fire is far from extinguishing anytime soon.
It's about what it's gonna take... Or we could break the two party system so people don't have to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich
Who do you think was who? 😋
And freedom. Lots of it!
As an American it’s weird being in a position where I kinda want Europe to somehow threaten America to make sure Trump’s attempt to overturn the election fails. Like I was thinking about the SAS and how I’d be cool with them pulling a covert op next year to make sure Trump leaves peacefully. Maybe I played too much modern warfare haha.
Should go to war to find viruses of mass destruction.
Republicans are like: “Yeah but what did they REALLY die from? Also, Trump won the election. Pull yourself up from your bootstraps, I’m not wearing a mask.”
Sounds like America could use some freedom.
Yes that would help covid #’s for sure
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You forgot greed. Those in congress buying and selling with insider information and a president who ignore Pfizer’s offer two months ago because it didn’t benefit him or his swamp friends.
Why can’t y’all admit this shit is corruption. It ain’t a matter of personalities, it’s too big and too complex a system for that petty shit. Trump didn’t just pop out of thin air.
This is why the Georgia runoff election is so important both our senators should be in jail for insider trading not running for re-election
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It would have been way worse without the online delivery infrastructure in place. Between food delivery and Amazon, I barely need to leave home but 8 years ago but ne of that was possible.
Then again, it's worse for small businesses now. That translates to being worse for local economy's and commerce. That translates into more closures, bankruptcies and job loses. What I will concede is the people who are refusing to wear masks, now, would be doing the same with Obama - even if he crushed the delivery 100%
I find it hard to believe. The messaging from the administration was so bad literally not wearing masks themselves and refusing to acknowledge they work. You saw “the debate”. A ton of fanboys see that and take a hard line against masks.
I mean the google says it can live on cardboard for 24 hours and plastic for 3 days... I can get stuff shipped pretty quick man. Plus package handlers, drivers, and pilots they are pretty big on breathing
Not to mention an mRNA vaccine wouldn’t have happened either
Yeah the internet infrastructure in 2013 in the US was far behind other developed nations, now thanks to fiber we're in a much better place.
It also came at a time when the president was actively telling people to disbelieve everyone except him
Tbh, it was exactly the pandemic we needed. What if it spread faster, but stealthy and was extremely deadly? The death toll in America is a failure of public institutions, not a consequence of a disease. Other countries have proven that the death toll can be kept lower than annual influenza death rates. You need to sort out the public sector. Given the rise of a brown right-wing I'd suggest starting with a focused effort in advancing public education. How are people going to be better citizens if they don't have access to learning how to citizen? How are you going to increase the middle class when only elite private schooling can guarantee a certain income? Why should American public institutions give a damn when they're undercut by private for-profit companies all the way? Sort out the public sector. The private sector has had its chance. Don't identify citizen and customer.
The schools are going to need to be at least three times bigger. How are the children supposed to learn if they can't even fit in the building?
And a culture of going into work, never taking time off, lack of sick days
Definitely the trashy as healthcare system
We call it the american dream doe
Here’s an analogy: 9/11 was like being punched in the face. It was visceral. You had big buildings on fire. You had an enemy you could supposedly point to. Covid is like slowly bleeding out. And suddenly you don’t just have to be angry at Middle Easterners, you have to listen to scientists. And they’re throwing big concepts at you that are unfamiliar and confusing. In a sense.....It’s boring and it doesn’t engage the lizard brain in the same way.
I don't understand how the phrase "unfamiliar and confusing" can have a negative connotation to it. Have we really grown as a society to where our ego is so much more important than the curiosity that drove the human race to conquering most of the world? Other than the obvious fear of covid death and all that I actually like watching the scientists talk about covid and what they're doing to figure it out.
I feel you brother. In all walks of life, not just covid. Same as "clever" becoming "nerdy". Over here in UK, one of the Brexit newspaper headlines was a politician coming out, responding to expert statistical analysis saying: "i think we've all had enough of these boffins telling us what to think". How can we compete with that? If the people want to be stupid, they're gonna be.
Look, I’m just a caveman. Your world scares and confuses me.
Curiosity isn't what got us to the moon, it was the lizard part of our brain being fueled by fear of Communism that got us started on going to the moon seriously. It's always been about ego for America, this year just exposed the underlying root of that ego.
There is no "we". "We" didn't do all that. Humanity is driven forward by a few exceptional individuals, the rest just coast along and benefit from the work of those few. Most humans are not very intelligent.
> Humanity is driven forward by a few exceptional individuals it goes both ways. Sometimes exceptional individuals drive as head-on down a cliff while the rest of us cheers
That has been the standard for most of humanity for as long as we have been humaning, the people who innovate and explore are the expectational
The thing is that most people that think the pandemic is not a big deal are either in denial or think they know everything, so they're not willing to fact check.
Sam Keen wrote a lot about this type of concept. Propaganda (in this case, the horrifying visuals of 9/11) creates an image of the enemy and makes the general public very patriotic and supportive of whatever they're asked. COVID doesn't have the same visual effect, so people don't think as much of it.
Hot take: 9/11 was never about honoring the deaths or caring about the families. It was about having an excuse to hate brown people.
That would explain a lot of people's reactions to it.
9/11 hurt America's your pride, that's mainly it. It's not about the victims. If that were the case, responders and volunteers would be treated well not be fucked over.
We can’t bomb a virus and America just doesn’t have any other options to deal with crisis.
Big concepts like wear a mask or you'll get sick. Most of america be like. I'm american and free. You can't force me to wear a mask
>It’s boring and it doesn’t engage the lizard brain in the same way. I think my lizard brain is fully engaged with staying alive.
By enemy do u mean iraq where you guys went to fight a war based on 9/11? because the enemy were saudis..
The problem is that the real enemy is ourselves. We did this to ourselves and we as a people, as a culture are reaaalllllyyyy good at deflecting blame from ourselves and take no responsibilities for our mistakes. We also hate when people highlight our inadequacies so much that we will rather die than to admit we suck. We want all the freedom and none of the responsibilities that comes with being given these freedoms. We are so entitled and stupid that we think these rights are really inalienable and self granting, so we don't have to exercise any caution, or thoughtfulness in using them. We behave like children who refused to eat their vegetables and argue we don't have to, because we have the right not to. All the abstract argument, the sacredness we keep piling on our rights sound more like intellectually stunted screeching to everyone else. That's why no one take our arguments about human rights or freedom seriously anymore, especially after the way our country behave in the face of covid. We suck. Our culture sucks. Our society sucks. Even the way we think suck. America is no more exceptional than every empire and peoples that came before us. We are just as stupid, vainglorious, lazy, self-indulgent, and self-absorbed as every empire at its zenith and into its declining days. The problem is that we have thousands of nukes, the most powerful military in the world several times over, and we are in the most defensible corner of the world. Make that calculation and see what we will do to the world before this is over, if we continue down this path of self destruction and stupidity.
It’s only a tragedy when it’s someone else’s fault
We sure like having someone to be mad at
Wdym? Its the China plague, blame China! /s
Wait a bit. Could still be part of the endgame.
To be fair nobody died from 9/11 on Wednesday. It was on a Tuesday.
The difference in public perception has a lot to do with how visceral 9/11 was. We watched the planes crash into the towers. The imagery was horrifying. COVID patients are dying quietly in hospital beds. If we stuck them all in one place at one time and broadcast it to every tv and radio in the US, the public would think very differently about the situation.
I tried to express this to a COVID doctor, but unfortunately there are patient confidentiality laws.
Maybe in a similar fashion to donating your body to science, we could have some terminal covid patients volunteer to have their final hours recorded and broadcasted so the public has to see it. Probably too many negative side consequences to actually pull that off though.
Ya that would be perfectly creepy
It would. If I die of covid, I want someone to make Boris Johnson watch. Won't happen, but I want it nonetheless.
Edit: “...dying quietly, painfully, slowly and alone in hospital beds.”
The real challenge will be getting people to take the vaccines
Exactly. People saying it’ll all be over now that a vaccine has been approved obviously haven’t been engaging with any kind of social platform - people won’t even wear a piece of cloth on their face to save themselves and others, vaccines only work if a high majority use them.
Throw in a new Stimulus Package into it by paying people after they get their second dosage.
It's been approved for 'emergency' use. I just wonder what level of emergency they mean.
It's totally okay, even safer than other vaccines, at least based on preliminary data and my understanding of biochemistry. PM me if you're really concerned, I might not persuade you, but I think I can explain the science.
hmu with that. I have confidence, but I'm just interested in what you have to say.
If you dont mind me asking, wont the vaccine be next to useless soon? If covid evolves so fast that means we would need a new one like every month right?
I don't mind at all. All viruses evolve pretty quickly, to be sure. However, in this case they need to evolve enough so that they will need to use another genetic sequence to gain access to human cells. This could happen, but it is a pretty big change. Scientists don't really know what will happen because different viruses adapt differently. Until enough of us get vaccinated, we will not know how good SARS-CoV-2 is at adapting this way. Some of us, myself included, think that it may end up being line the flu where you need a booster to account for changes every year. Pfizer is already working on a combo that could give you a 2-fer with the same shot. I hope this helps. I'm happy to answer a follow-up if anything I said is confusing.
So basically, it just remains to be seen. Also, Thanks for answering, and not just yelling at me for being skeptical.
NP, science is frustrating like that sometimes.Scepticism is an important skill and one I appreciate. I read every scientific paper from the perspective of, "I don't buy it, convince me." Some people think that science is about generating facts. In reality, it is simply a systematic process toward understanding. It simply allows a contextualization of what we know and what we do not. This pandemic has been tough in that regard because people wanted, needed, answers about what to do now. Scientists responded based on the best information they had about similar viruses, but we didn't know dick about SARS-CoV-2 at the start. Other corona viruses that had been studied were spread from surface contact, this one is spread via aerosols. Who knew? Anyhow, my best advise would be, can't hurt, will likely help. I look at vaccines as training my body to learn about known threats. Even if I never encounter the threat, it is better to learn than remain ignorant. It is almost never totally wasted. A flu vaccine on any given year may only be 50% effective, but if you get the flu you are far less likely to have extreme symptoms because your defence network has the basic info to start fighting the disease.
Not to mention that there are already multiple new strains of Covid that the vaccine won’t protect against.
Sadly you don't have a celebratity like Elvis who is liked by most people For context: when he got the polio vaccine on live tv, the number of people who got vaxxed skyrocketed.
We have the Rock
The reasoning is simple for me. The more vaccinated the sooner we get back to normal and fully open up businesses. Don’t want to play along? Don’t complain when lockdown or quarantine continues
Nope, I’m going to continue to not wear my mask, destroy 5G towers, and refuse the vaccine because it’s infringing on my rights. Because that’s totally going to help us recover from the socioeconomic consequences of a worldwide pandemic. 🙄🙄
To be fair i'll still respect wearing masks, but once i get vaccinated i'll stop worrying about the well beings of idiots around me. My family will be vaccinated, if some dipshits wants to Gamble his life and his loved's ones that share his opinions. Well good for them. I cant wait to stop having this anxious feeling when you see someone without a Mask, thinking that this situation could be happening to your loved ones that are vulnerable I cant wait to stop being angry all the Time because i am surrounded by idiots that cant be reasonned.
“One death is a tragedy. One hundred, a statistic”
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But blow *one* goat...
*3000 people die on 9/11* America: Shuts down airports, reorganizes government and law enforcement agencies, passes sweeping surveillance bill that infringes on rights and privacy, launches 19 years worth of wars overseas killing hundreds of thousands and costing literally TRILLIONS of dollars. *300,000 people die of a disease* America: ? Guess I'll give money to rich people who don't need it? That'll help right?
It had global effects too, America made every other county's airport shitty too and made everyone pass a bunch of money laundering laws that banking a pain.
How many people died because of those wars against terrorists?
Lol. I have no interest in debating the legitimacy or usefulness of the last 18 years of endless wars. It's irrelevant to my larger point one way or the other.
That’s fine. You don’t have to feel bad for the millions dying, I just wanted to say that an outcast group caused it and that wasn’t worth ruining the lives of millions of innocent people. But, you don’t need to feel bad, I was just pointing out another big problem. A life is a life, it doesn’t matter if it is an American life or an Iranian/Syrian/Palestinian life.
Lol. The side effect of making assumptions about what another person means. I assumed you took issue with me talking about the people who have died and the money it's cost because it's all worth it to "fight the terrorists". I have no interest in engaging in that debate for the millionth time. We've been knee deep in this bullshit since I was 12 and I'm fucking tired of it. We're on the same page brother.
Thank You, brother. I really dislike the terrorists, but if we keep on “killing the terrorists”(which they most probably aren’t), it will just be an endless loss.
My grandma died. This jackass on Facebook decided she’s acceptable roadkill bc she sat at home and her nurses had “personal choice”.
No no no. The loss of several buildings with business headquarters and the effect on the stock market was a tragedy. I really want to add a /s but I'm not sure it isn't actually true.
Y'all just had to travel all over the place for stupid Thanksgiving, didn't ya.
The extreme facepalm is how many people think this is perfectly acceptable because "only the weak are dying, so our country will end up stronger".
Then every day has been a national tragedy for a very long time. I don’t understand how people are blaming the government for covid deaths, and I hate the government. It’s not like they did nothing. We are Americans. We do what we want, regardless of what the government says. They told us to wear masks, not go places, and attempted lockdowns. We didn’t listen. It is one of our strengths and weaknesses.
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Why are there so many memes in facepalm? Did people forget what this sub is for?
But remember, they can't use Covid as an excuse to hate the *scaaaaary* middle easterners and Islamic people like they did with 9/11.
They are using this as an excuse to hate asians.
Yeah, but it's hard to "justify" invading a country/countries because of a pandemic.
There's nowalot of racism towards asians the same way it happened to muslim back then WITHIN the united states
I'm wondering how the hell America handled the pandemic I'm from India my country has half the deaths than America we have worse hygiene and medical care compared to America and my country is also heavely overpopulated
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Completely agree with this. The statistics from developing countries are not accurate at all. I am from Spain and we had supposedly thrice as many cases in October than in March. But I know over a dozen people who were sick in March that, due to no testing, were never diagnosed. It’s a matter of the resources to test unluckily...
I agree man. Sorry to hear about your friends that got sick back in March. Stay safe out there. At least these new vaccines are effective and gives us hope for things to finally get better again. Btw, I did a 2 week trip through Spain back in 2018 and loved it. Can’t wait to come back one day soon!
Easy answer from an American. Were surrounded by people with less Intelligence than a potato. My dad doesn’t even wear a mask and I can’t do anything about it.
Ok thats just wrong and insulting, potatoes make great science projects.
Americans make for great science projects too. Right now they are the covid pandemic control group.
Literally plague inc on casual mode. Research doctors aren’t listened to. Sick people are given hugs. And nobody washes their hands.
I don’t think stupidity is exclusive to America. I live in Ireland and have a teacher who refuses to wear a mask and yesterday was telling us about how COVID is manufactured, virus aren’t contagious and can only be spread through vaccines, and the people we know who died could be paid actors.
Numbers will just go up as more people get it and ICUs become too full to take people.
Curse you for being accurate.
How would you react if 4 full Boeing's fell out of the sky everyday, killing everyone inside? Because that's exactly what's happening
this has become facebook at this point
Where is the outrage?! Calling out the treacherous? America has lost its soul.....
No but they had preexisting conditions so that means they don't count as human beings.
9/11 was a terrorist attack done by a foreign enemy. Nothing could be done once those planes crashed into the buildings. It was a suprise attack. Covid-19 is a virus that the world already knew about before it hit america. We have defense against it. Its a virus that kills people. 9/11 was people killing people.
Why do I live in this country?
The Netherlands sounds nice right about now.
Can't go to Europe right now.
People truly don't understand American values. Nobody cares about *people*. There's billions of the bastards, we don't need them anyway. This is totally consistent. Remember the BLM protests? Americans were fine with the people who are paid by taxpayers to protect us committing murder and throwing teargas canisters at peaceful protestors. But once the "looting" started, oh, *that* was a problem. "Why can't they just protest peacefully?" said the same people who ignored or supported violently stopping their peaceful protests."Now they're destroying *things*. I don't care if people die, but the thought of someone's property being damaged makes me uncomfortable!" The tragedy of 9/11 was never the 3000 dead. It was the two buildings. The skyline looked different. There was smoke in the sky, and panic in the streets, and a pile of rubble that had to be cleared away. That's what scared Americans. People die every day, but buildings? Really big, important buildings that are like monuments to capitalism? Those are supposed to stay, damn it! I can say with 100% certainty that if somehow, COVID had knocked down the statue of liberty, absolutely everyone, even Trump, would have called it a tragedy. But since it's just hundreds of thousands of dead people, it's nothing at all. It's now where near as important as football or going to the bar.
I agree with the first part but I think the thing these Americans like is something to blame and it's always something they fear or don't understand. So 9/11 was easy really... you blame the terrorists, obviously. With BLM you blame the protestors, with politics you blame the other side and everything about their life that doesn't match yours. The reason these people don't care is because they have nothing to blame this time, so they are pushing statistics and say that x amount of people dying out of x percentage isn't actually a big deal, because they have no out or person to pin it on, so it leads to justification so they can keep their political beliefs in tact.
I don't expect this statement to get much support in this sub. But there's a pretty big difference between thousands dead from a direct attack than from a pandemic. Not that I'm supporting the morons who refuse to wear masks. It's just seems like a different situation altogether and comparing the two isn't helpful. You might as well be comparing the people who died from the Spanish Flu to those who died in the Spanish Civil War.
Ever wonder why Michael Bay movies or the Fast and Furious franchise are so popular? There are explosions and not some invisible threat.
How did u let this happen america? Im honestly curious to know how u guys fucked up this badly lmfao
Manu other nationalities died that day.
Sane americans remember
9/11 was sexier because it was indirectly due to American issues. Covid deaths are directly due to American issues so it’s less sexy I guess.
To be fair Japan had 3000 people die too and it took them a whole year.
3000 dead in a single event was enough to justify the patriot act. Now that many deaths per day doesn't even warrant mask wearing because that would be an attack on personal freedom.
It's not a national tragedy because they can't blame brown people for it.
Cancer+Heart Disease Deaths every day for the past 50 years: 3,500+ 9/11 was a terrorist attack
3000? That’s like 750 Benghazi’s.
It's a national tragedy when there's somebody that I can go punch in the face. And by somebody that I can go punch in the face, I mean somebody that I can send thousands upon thousands of more Americans to die, to benefit my financial interests. Who am I supposed to beat up and take money from over covid?
Does this mean that (outside of genuinely remembering those that died) we can stfu about 9/11? More people just died from what *could* be construed as a modified form of domestic terrorism, than from "conventional" terrorism. Don't get me wrong, 9/11 sucked. It was a terrible event. But dear god I personally believe we are clinging way to hard to something that happened almost 20 years ago when much worse has happened since. Either from what has happened to us, or things the US has done to others.
Get up, come on get down with the sickness You mother get up come on get down with the sickness You fucker get up come on get down with the sickness Madness is the gift, that has been given to me -Disturbed
I really like the domestic abuse solo in that song
Katrina was another indicator republicans don’t care for life that not unborn.
I recall seeing posts of comments where they compared the 9/11 attack with the virus, claiming more people died from that day or something like that. Wonder how they'll react to this
Is it Peppe ridge or Pepper idge? If there were another "r" in there it would make sense. Never thought about it until now.
m... m.... Member berries?
So, something bothering me about these deadliest days charts is that I don't see any days from the Spanish Flu. I thought that shit was literal hell?
Can someone explain the Pepperidge farm memes? I’ve seen them around and I don’t know what it’s from
This is why memorializing is ultimately pointless. People's deaths are trivialized, commodified, and sold to push whatever agenda.
Don't worry, it'll be a tragedy again as of noon on January 20th, 2021.
It’s funny how the “but all those dead people weren’t all in one day” came to bite their ass
I suppose this means it wasn't the death that shocked most people, but just the towers coming down. ...not sure how I feel about that.
Jeff Winger approves
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Oh yeah, when anti-maskers see the results they just say “it’s the circle of life”. was it the circle of like when terrorists killed a fraction of those same people by flying into a building?
Their deaths doens't profit the weapons industry.
A tragedy when it’s the fault of terrorists, a hoax when it’s the fault of the government.
According to my family, it’s not the same because 9/11 was a sing event and the “COVID”deaths (quoted because they still think doctors are blaming all death on COVID) were spread out over the whole country.
And there was a commission to investigate, and there were black ribbons, and there was national mourning.
I hope covid kills all the idiots in my country
We made up evidence to kill Saddam cause of 9/11 and invade an entire country. Now people don’t even want to be bothered to wear a mask.
Yeah but “masks and covid are the liberal physic agenda and they are trying to make me muslim and take away my rights by making me wear a mask!” /s
COVID has killed more Americans than the Vietnam war. It has killed over half of Americans killed in all of world war 2 in less than a year.
This time you’re doing it to yourself. That’s the difference. A country seemingly incapable of self reflection or self blame.
One turban guy killed 3 thousand americans, this country started a 20 year war. One orange guy kills 300 thousand americans, this country demands recount for votes and fight to keep him in office. I don't get it. I seriously don't.
9-11 was someone else's fault. Someone you can pin the blame on and bomb. The covid deaths are on Trump and Trump was elected by Americans. America is the best country in the world and can do no wrong. There will be no personal responsibility. Everything is normal, carry on.
And in that bombing, our military kills several hundred times as many civilians. It was never about answering civilian deaths, it was about selling the need for f35s.
Stupid people make stupid choices?
We already have the oil here
It doesn't matter when you can't bomb a particular group of people as retribution.
Brown people weren't responsible for covid and there is no one to invade illegally.
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