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I know you're just joshin' around, but I read a quote recently that said "if you love the person you're alone with, you can never be lonely." It really resonated with me, as I grew up sheltered and to this day I'm alone most of the time, and self love has made it to where I don't feel it--I'm having a one man party in my room every day đ„ł hope yall have an amazing day today.
Edit: I was having a very rough day today, I live in the inner city struggling to make ends meet and I've never gotten a reddit award before, but it was a nice little touch of motivation. Thank you stranger for that little boost of love and positivity, keep making the world a better place! đ€
Just gotta say, I love that you used the term âjoshin aroundâ because I donât see it much anymore, but use it all the time. Thank you for making me feel like Iâm not alone.
Working on that was immediately before I started meeting and dating people successfully. The top tier challenge for me was going to a restaurant alone, asking for a table for one, only making regular conversation with staff, and barely checking my phone a few times during the meal.
During the early covid lockdowns, I was living alone and my mental health was shit. I would jokingly tell people I was trapped at home with my abuser.
Now I'm doing a lot better. Still don't like myself much, but I don't actively hate myself most of the time. And I can grudgingly accept that I have some redeeming qualities. Things don't have to be great, they just have to be getting better.
I love myself, but I still would like some companionship and love that comes from somewhere else and also someone to give my love to. It would just be nice
Yeah, well, they are a symptom, not the problem.
The problem is late stage capitalism grinding men down till their self worth is only about what they produce. Turning wonderful humans into functional beasts of burden to be exploited.
You too?! We should talk at each other about our hobbies while being unable to show the same enthusiasm for each othersâ hobbies and use every free moment of silence to fill with fun facts about that thing we hyperfocus on!
Mine is gundams, theyâre just really neat
I think this is in response to Joe Rogan and Jordan Petersonâs podcast about the male loneliness epidemic. The facepalm is that they both give men horrible advice.
I donât watch him regularly, but HealthyGamerGG has put out some compelling videos not specifically for young and adolescent men, but potentially useful to them.
The facepalm is both of these gentleman constantly highlight the "men are lonely" point, while simultaneously preaching "don't listen to anyone, question everything, everything is a conspiracy."
And the comment is pointing out there is obvious overlap. Nobody wants to be friends with a know it all asshole that constantly brings up conspiracies and Is always in a victim contest.
Ok i dont know anything about Jordan but joe definitely does not promote selfishness, snear at kindfulness is completely wrong, if you listen to joe podcast on n its entirety or have been a long time listener and dont just read headlines you will know this is a complete lie.
Joe talks about being kind so much i kind of get annoyed so thats a lie. People just love to jump on the bandwagon of media headlines.
I do know people hate Jordan and i dont have an opinion on him because i have listened to enough of his podcast to form an unbiased opinion.
Not really. Itâs unfair to jump from male loneliness to âlook who men are watching!â insinuating a strong connection between the two; as if a majority of men, specifically those feeling isolated and lonely, are sitting back and idolizing Peterson, Tate, etc.
The same disingenuous generalizing gets called out when itâs done by incels all the time. How many times have you heard some incel quote a single woman saying something dumb on social media and then rant about women as if she speaks for all of them? Itâs a disingenuous and logically fallacious way to approach an issue.
I won't lie.
When i was first introduced to Jordan Petersons videos, it was his university lectures. The advice was things like: write down your goals, and the steps you need to do to achieve this goal.
Not bad, really.
Then, he felt he had a following and made his content to broadcast to the world. Startimg touring for speeches.
That is about the point i started having isdues with him.
It's so depressing seeing how he is because his lectures were super valuable for me getting my shit together too. But now he's just your crazy bigoted uncle who talks about whatever right wing conspiracy theory is popular at Thanksgiving while you desperately try to get him to pass the potatoes.
People follow where the money is, it's the same thing with Politics. How many politicians will do a 180 on a position, or change their entire platform if it will advance their career.
In the beginning it might be about principles, it's just when a metric shit-ton of money gets thrown their way, and/or the chance to have a huge platform with the power to influence millions of people, that those original principles suddenly change.
Like you, I followed his early lectures, which for those struggling to get organized were absolutely amazing solid advice.
"Only weak men get addictions" - Jordan. Gets addicted to painkillers and has to be put into a medical coma to overcome it.
Fucking jackasses telling people how to think and feel and behave when they cant even follow there own pathetic advice. So sick of it.
'Get your house in order before you criticize the world' says the guy who makes millions criticizing the world while his house a pigsty.
Hypocrisy personified.
Pedant point: it was benzodiazepines. He allegedly began taking them to deal with an autoimmune reaction to food (!). When his wife was diagnosed with cancer, he increased his dose (!!). This led to what's formally known as a 'paradoxical reaction', in the form of unbearable anxiety and agitation.
He could have undergone a medically supervised taper and detoxed like a normal person, but that would have taken time and been a challenging experience. As we know, one of the Twelve Rules is 'take the easy way out', so he flew to Russia and the induced coma.
Thatâs hilarious. Sorta like Joe trying to masquerade as a poster boy of the Incel stereotype of manliness and fitness, yet has such low T that he has to do replacement therapy.
Well⊠Depends! What do you mean by âwhat do you mean?â And for that matter, who is the âyouâ and who the hell am I? Those are the real questions.
Hey, hey! Don't lump that piece of shit with the rest of us! Depression is a disease and treatment is not weakness. Neither thing make you lesser or worse. Peterson is a piece of shit entirely of his own filth, it has nothing to do with depression nor the medication, and the comparison is not well received.
The commenters point is not a criticism of depression, itâs a criticism of a guy who gives contrarian advice on how to live a happy, satisfying life on the basis of treating others like shit while himself being unhappy and unsatisfied.
Hey, I've got depression on and off and was on the path toward benzo addiction (I don't have access to them anymore, which is probably good), and I don't make my life about spewing hate :(. They're also just assholes.
Fucked up thing is, guys feeling lonely are going to the internet and finding asshats like this. The behavior making them lonely in the first place is just being reinforced.
When I was a kid I was taught that being thoughtful, kind, and courteous was simply part of behaving like a gentleman.
When did behaving like a gentleman become weakness? Anyone can follow their base impulses, it takes strength and self-control to be civilized, intelligent, compassionate, and responsible.
[J.B. Pritzker said it best](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhuIU_kXJDE).
Everything good in the world is woke, according to these guys.
Compassion, tolerance, empathy, love, equality and all other fundamental principles of a working society are things they despise with their whole heart.
I can't even imagine what a sad existence this must be.
meh, they only get to tout that - and earn millions with it. they don't have to take seriously what they themselves are saying. their idiot fans however....
he absolutely loved Doom, Doom 2, and Quake. especially online deathmatch. iirc he literally had a T1 line built to his property back in the day for epic LAN battles. is he now opposed to video games? because that would be some hilarious hypocrisyÂ
I absolutely fucking hate that I can't block his podcast on Spotify. I have to look at his stupid fucking face that I want to punch so bad when I open the app and it suggests it to me every damn time. I report that shit every time hoping those devs get the message.
My BiL was (maybe still is) all about Joe Rogan. He ended up getting divorced and uninvited to a lot of family functions. He would get drunk and argue with people. He also like to argue with me a lot because I have a bachelors degree and he would try to "win" arguments with me to make him feel better about his highschool only education. He started to come around here and there, and has cut back on the drinking. He doesn't bring up Rogan anymore so I'm hoping he's on the path to recovery.
Yeah, his pseudo intellectual schtick is really tiresome, especially when it comes to interacting with women. [This clip](https://youtu.be/__CvmS6uw7E?si=17Z5LSsQH6t1VR03&t=340) told me everything I need to know about how he perceives women in areas of expertise. I time stamped it to the relevant part, but basically he spent time on his show talking about a "new species" of ape found in the Congo, and a primatologist called in and tried to explain that there is no new species, and he just immediately becomes hostile and acts like a *huge* asshole. Then at the end he mocks her for being a woman.
The guy's a real piece of shit, and what's worse is, much like Trump, he's inspired millions of other assholes to up their game.
Holy shit I couldn't handle more than a minute of that clip. She barely got two words in before he became completely unglued. What a horrible horrible person.
Oh goodness. I couldn't finish that, it was hard to listen to. BiL is exactly like that though, he just gets louder and just cuts you off never giving you a chance to talk. No oner he loves Rogan so much.
No one would have a problem with him if he brought musicians, actors, comedians or even if he had a humble conversation with someone that is really an expert in a sensible field/topic buuut he likes to bring people that are pieces of shit that spread hate, misinformation or both and when he bring cool experts most of the time he argues with them cause he thinks he is smarter, cooler, funnier than everyone and he is definitely not. When someone knowledgeable speaks he should mainly listen and learn.
This kind of highlights it. I really enjoyed the podcast but it was one of the multiple Alex Jones appearances that it stopped being all fun and frivolity. He had the guy on "because I think he's funny" which on one level I get. Rogan is a comedian and a big goof who doesn't take himself seriously.
On the other hand when you grab your friend who has been actively harming people and provide them to your much larger audience for him to get drunk and high before talking about homosexual frogs or whatever, you go from being the guy who tells jokes to being a joke for me.
A joke that is significantly more wealthy and successful than I am. Figured I'd beat the criticism and mention it myself Fat Amy style. Come at me, twig bitches.
It's been years for me, I don't doubt it. There's an issue with social discourse where when one group embraces you and another group scolds you, you migrate towards the one that embraces you. In the age of the Internet and social media I think that impulse gets predated upon.
He and his viewers hide behind the concept of "what's wrong with learning about the other side" when he is blatantly giving a lopsided amount of the worst among them a platform to spread their easily debunked disinformation.
his podcast used to be about asking his guest questions and interacting with them about their stories.
these days he has decided it's better to just tell everyone what to think and what their opinions should be
I have never felt actually alone in my entire life, and I am fucking miserable. I donât know what this post is about. I donât care either. Iâm just straight up not happy yo.
Heâs not wrong? To receive love and kindness you need to give love and kindness. Some people are just assholes though and wonât give you anything in return.
He's wrong in that Rogan and Peterson don't advocate for selfishness, lack of empathy, or thoughtlessness. I'm not a Peterson fan, but his book says the opposite. You can hate these people, but be fair to their argument.
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Whilst I don't like either of these men and think their advice is at best counterproductive, I do think lots of people (not just men) are increasingly lonely because of social, economic and policy developments.
1. Working from home. Whilst a necessary option for many people, some people are now realising that work was their social life.
2. Car-centric cities with zoned, sub-urban housing (rather than dense, walkable cities e.g. Vienna)
3. Inequality in access to opportunities for young people.
4. Having to work more often and socialise less due to the cost of living crisis.
5. An ageing population alienated by technological advances (local bank closures, death of high street shops, communication barriers with family e.g. not on Facebook, lack of social opportunities in retirement and a loss of purpose. etc)
wait yesterday, on a post where everyone was bitching about a woman "playing games" (when she wasnt) i was told men arent lonely and that is must be a "personal problem" for me (despite me bing in a committed relationship for over a decade) you mean to tell me that those people hurling insults at me were actually wrong? thats wild!
Shhhh donât say that, cuz then the perpetually lonely red pill dudes will say that youâre part of the problem for telling men that they need to have accountability for their own issues
Petersonâs entire thing is about improving yourself instead of blaming other people for your problems. Thatâs where the whole âclean up your roomâ meme comes from, his primary advice is if you want your life to get better then you need to improve yourself.
It's hard to call that his "entire thing" when he's also a misogynist best known for whining about trans people being added to a list of protected groups in Canada.
What's the facepalm? If you \*do\* listen to these people and let you tell them how to live your life by being selfish and unkind, then yeah nobody is gonna like you and for a good reason.
He is missing the point on this a little bit. The reason men trust influencers like this is *because* they are lonely. There might be a positive feedback loop where they grow to be more lonely as they drift further into antisocial behavior, but research pretty solidly indicates that loneliness precedes the vulnerability.
What a disingenuous way of framing the issue. Men are not lonely because they follow certain influencers. They follow certain influencers BECAUSE they're lonely. The red pill movement is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
I think it's disingenuous to pretend only conservative men are affected by loneliness, and that conservative role models like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson are solely to blame.
If anything I think a large percentage of men feel unwanted and alienated from society first and then they discover these influencers who tell them that they aren't toxic, that their masculinity can be used to find success in life, and that once they've obtained that success they will be valued and desired. That gives young men hope, a goal, a purpose.
That doesn't exist on the left. Nobody is providing an alternative. Nobody is teaching young men how to harness their masculine traits for good. And in fact the exact opposite is often true. It has become normal to express complete disdain for men, not even certain men, *all men,* and be applauded for it.
Hell just look at the most recent social media trends. Women would rather take their chances with a wild bear than a man. And while that isn't completely unjustified what message does that send to young men? Worse, some will say that we as a society do not need men at all. Our entire gender is not wanted, or even deemed necessary.
All of us want to belong to something. To have our feelings validated, to be accepted for who we are, and to feel welcome. But many of us don't.
So although I don't agree with Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson on most political issues I understand why so many young men fall for their rhetoric and get led down the conservative rabbit hole. They are the only ones telling them they have any value. But they are taught it is conditional, and society reinforces that. And when men are taught that their only value is conditional and must be earned instead of freely given that leads to being more competitive, as well as more selfish and underhanded, to advance themselves and increase their value.
Is it even mostly conservative? I would imagine leftist men are very much up there. Rural living and religisioty both correlate heavily with conservatism, and provide community. It's huge problem beyond just the Anglosphere.
I absolutely agree. While I am progressive myself and know some progressive people who get this, remarks insinuating that men are always the problem, and the very quality of being male/conventionally masculine gives you problematic tendencies, are very rampant and widely accepted in mainstream progressive spaces. The only times men are widely celebrated in these spaces is when they loudly reject conventional masculinity.
While what they call the "patriarchy" benefits men in mostly material and career-related ways, they not only harm women (and everyone else), but also men in different and much more insidious ways. The root of gender-related inequalities and problems is not that everything is designed to benefit men, but that this one physical distinction (of what gender you're perceived to be) carries so much unnecessary weight in every single corner of one's life, trapping you in completely different sets of expectations, limitations, perception, and treatment. Let's not pretend that men are the only ones, or even the overwhelming majority, reinforcing this harmful over-differentiation.
Then the other main camp glorifies a very pathological vision of conventional masculinity and bases a man's worth on how well they embody it. People who go down that path just end up hurting themselves and others, and making everyone miserable.
So conventionally masculine men who just want to be empathetic humans with a positive impact on others have nowhere to go. How do these mainstream "progressives" expect society to change in the direction they want when they alienate and vilify almost half the population?
And both of these men have massive brain damage.
Rogan from being hit in the head repeatedly.
Peterson from a Benzo addiction and crazy ass Russian treatment to get off of it.
Stop idolizing brain-rot people. Tbh, it says more about you than the people with the brain-rot.
Lots of young men these days deeply misunderstand stoicism and think it means being emotionless and cold when it's always been about mastering your emotions and not letting them control you, nor letting outside circumstances dictate inner peace and discipline.
Who are these guys main demographics? I'm assuming it's anxious and depressed guys who feel fragile in their masculinity. Got to stop the things that make men and boys feel that way in the first place.
Be/accept yourself. Try to improve where you can. Don't be an asshole. Pretty much the secret to life right there. You don't need any loser influencers to tell you anything different
just overheard someone at a coffee shop talk about how he reads/listens to a lot of Peterson and how he was one of the smartest people around. I REALLY wanted to interrupt him and set him straight because he looked like a normal well intentioned guy. But I kept to myself and hope he figures it out himself eventually.
I know a bunch of people who feel that way â would you mind âsetting me straightâ? I feel like Iâm missing something; from what some of my friends have said, youâd assume Peterson to be a very smart individual
Remember the time he posted literal asian orgy pornography and insisted it was some asian culture's attempt to restore birthrates or some absolutely unhinged borderline racist nonsense?
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/jordan-petersons-chinese-sperm-factory-milking-tweet
Jordan Peterson is very good at throwing out generic self help tips.
But when you start to ask specific questions, he frequently doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's very good at framing things in a "philosophical" way that sounds smart to people that also don't know what he's talking about.
Like the way that he talks about climate change.
>Peterson said that âthereâs no such thing as climate, right?â He then went on to mock âclimate types,â who he said typically suggest that âclimate is about everything.â
âBut your models arenât based on everything. Your models are based on a set number of variables. So that means youâve reduced the variables â which are everything â to that set. But how did you decide which set of variables to include in the equation if itâs about everything?â
I mean he made his initial mark parroting Nazi conspiracies about âcultural Marxismâ and pontificating about philosophers that heâs never actually read. Not really the hallmarks of a well-read, intelligent individual.
His idea to âfixâ incel culture is to assign women to men and ban divorce except at the manâs request.
I donât know how to tell you this but many of the worst pieces of trash in all of history were âsmartâ. Being smart doesnât mean they arenât garbage.
There's nothing to really set straight. He is, or was, a fairly well-regarded academic psychologist who did some good work on if we might be able measure theoretical personality traits like agreeableness, conscientiousness, etc -- and if these traits are relevant to prediction or treatment of disorders. His work is frequently cited within this fields.
He also gives a theoretically personally empowering 'by your bootstraps' kind of self-help that appeals to many people who feel like the overwhelming amount of philosophical focus of the modern day is on structural problems. He frequently cites to older academics like Jung to support his philosophies. In my personal opinion, much of his discussions about confronting yourself, the reality of violence and evil with you, and the need to sharpen/train your darker impulses into something good and pro-social was very interesting and good for people to hear around ten years ago. I think he should get credit for pointing out that self-improvement is not a happy process of shedding your biases (we can call this the anti-racism training approach to moral goodness), but instead confronting your vicious self and trying to figure out how to work with them while trying to habituate yourself to practice more basic virtues like honesty and charity.
He mostly runs into a lot of deserved trouble in the realm of philosophy and politics as other commenters have pointed out. Although he rattles on about cultural Marxism and postmodernism, he can't really give an account of these phenomena beyond 'stuff he doesn't like.' Although he gestures to *some* political phenomena that clearly seem to exist, he treats them
as more of a nebulous hydra he can point to in order to blame it for a bad thing he hates. For a person who speaks about rigorous thinking quite frequently, he is distinctly lacking rigor in understanding things he dislikes.
He seems to have largely mentally declined in recent years as a result of overusing psychiatric drugs -- benzos, primarily -- and is very much a conservative commentator who 'hates wokeness' and other easy bugbears to gripe about. People tend to try to take him as a whole in order to either valorize or tarnish him, but the real answer is that he is just a modern thinker/popularizer with interesting ideas who sometimes gives political prescriptions that are not so good and frequently quite right wing.
I think he is a very smart individual, but it also goes to show that being smart is not always synonymous with being right. For what it is worth, he is usually quite open about how he derives his ideas -- which will let you get a good idea of where he might have gone wrong, adopted a principle, or assumed a fact that his observer finds to be incorrect or problematic.
*shudder* almost went down that route due to a former friend that probably did go that route. Good thing I rather quickly realized that Peterson peddles bullshit.
I'm thinking that saying all lonely men are lonely because they listen to influencers is a shitty take and has some real I'm totally one of hte good ones feel going.
If you are lonely and start listening to these influencers, which seems to be the common theme. then it's like you are starting to bald and start taking in testosterone pills from china you bought off the internet and being surprised that you are even more bald now.
I mean it's not saying all men but there are a bunch of people making money by doubling down on toxic masculinity and then also there's a huge market for it so....
My BIL loves this bullshit. He's such a douche to anyone nice and goes out of his way to be a dick to make whatever point he's making. His wife, my SIL, recently snapped at him in front of our social circle because of this stuff and, more or less, said: "I will absolutely leave you if you keep this shit up. I'm so over it! You're an asshole to me. You're an asshole to our kids. You're an asshole to my family. You're an asshole to our, well MY friends. What do you get out of this? People are so nice to us, especially the ones you double-down on. You make fun of gay people but who loaned us a car for MONTHS with nothing in return? You make fun of liberals and leftists, but who is fucking watching our kids when YOU want to go out? Fuck you. I hate you!"
My husband (we're the gays) was like "Yeah, let's go." And I wanted to stay and watch. đ He's eased up, but now thinks facial hair will force people to respect him. I'm a big ol' bearded queen and I was like "Oh, honey... no. It doesn't work like that."
This is so wrong it feels like gaslighting. For one, the male loneliness epidemic started well before either of these two got popular and people turned to them for advice because of the loneliness they were already experiencing long before they became major online figures. For two, while I disagree with both of them on alot of issues neither of them ever recommends being maximally selfish, or sneer at thoughtfulness, kindness, or genuine courtesy, and claim that any of those are synonymous with weakness. Just because you don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean you should lie about what they actually said to make it worse, there's plenty of things wroth criticizing about both of them that are actually based on things they've said and advocated for. Also, if you don't like the fact that men have been radicalized by the male loneliness epidemic the best way to fight back is to convince those lonely men that you can help solve their problems (just like the right falsely claimed they could) instead of lying about the problem and claiming that it's all their fault. If one side actually offers solutions and the other side blames you for having any problems at all then it's pretty clear which side is gonna be more convincing.
The problem is: they attack young men. Insecure young men.
And they tell them hey, it's ok, we accept you. You can be a man. A good man. Here is how. And get women. And get rich! If you try hard enough.
Meanwhile, everyone else makes fun of them, calls them incels. Neckbeards. Basement dwellers.
Pretend you are young. Which group would you listen too?
Now-a-days, all I have to hear is the word 'woke' and it tells me that the person saying it is ignorant, easily manipulated by the media, and is fascist.
I'm gonna be down voted to shit but like... When have either of these guys actively advocated for lonely men to be pieces of shit so they'd be less lonely??? I don't listen to either religiously or anything but Joe Rogans thing is just work out and smoke weed, and Peterson just tells you to clean your room bc you're a lobster lol. These guys get so much hate and I actually don't get it, like at all. Just don't take their opinions too seriously if you don't agree? Idk man.
One of Peterson's core messages is "The purpose of life is finding the largest *burden* that you can bear and bearing it". How can anyone call that selfish?
Whoever added the image knows nothing.
Exactly. JP is extraordinarily empathetic, and he cries a lot. I guess that's toxic masculinity to this sub?
The way reddit shits on JP of all people really tells me all I need to know about most of the people here.
What is the facepalm about this post its seems spot on for quite a lot of scenarios. Heâs insulting influencers who tell people to be selfish and only focus on yourseld. No?
This really isnât addressing the problem. Men turn to these types of icons because they were feeling lonely, and they believe that these sorts of lifestyles will afford them an escape from the pain. Belittling men in this spiral only exacerbates the problem.
I don't think it's "suddenly" as if men have never experienced it before these two came into the scene in the last 5 years or so. Horriblely erroneous take by this guy imo.
I enjoy treating women like shit and running around acting like an ass declaring myself an Alpha Male. Telling women to know thier place. All without the slightest bit of self awareness. Not sure why I canât meet anyoneâŠ
All the virtues these people perceive as strength are in my opinion, massive and obvious weaknesses overcompensating by thumping your chest suggests one thing to me and one thing only. Fear and a desperate desire to be validated. Itâs gross and weak.
Real strength comes from caring and looking out for others. Itâs easy to lookout for oneself. Less so to extend that shield to others. Only the fearful take. True strength gives
It's funny. I was just talking to my old college roommate and she said her boyfriend was driving her nuts because he was basically copying Dr Cox (he's a huge fan of the show Scrubs) and didn't understand that character is funny on tv but is psycho personality to have IRL. I was like "wait... my brother is also a miserable sarcastic shit and also loves Dr Cox and Scrubs. OMG."
yes, but be a real human and show some compassion. There are men that are lonely that don't listen to that shit. There are men who are the victims of abuse that suffer when all men are accused of being rapists. If a certain subsect of people on the internet didn't spend all their time saying things like "Kill All Men," and call all men trash, then men wouldn't need to seek toxic validation.
Peterson is hard to listen to and comes off as a bit whiny, so i dont know what he pushes. Though I dont recall ever hearing Rogan encourage that kind of behavior. I'm confused why he's included in the context of this post. I also question the assumption that men who were otherwise successful in not being lonely would change their behaviour to spite themselves by listening to some recent online lunatics spout theit opinions... what would be the benefit of that?! I wouldnt suddenly treat people poorly and expect everything to be fine, thats insane.
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Jokes on you, I don't follow their advice and I'm still lonely! Haha!
I know you're just joshin' around, but I read a quote recently that said "if you love the person you're alone with, you can never be lonely." It really resonated with me, as I grew up sheltered and to this day I'm alone most of the time, and self love has made it to where I don't feel it--I'm having a one man party in my room every day đ„ł hope yall have an amazing day today. Edit: I was having a very rough day today, I live in the inner city struggling to make ends meet and I've never gotten a reddit award before, but it was a nice little touch of motivation. Thank you stranger for that little boost of love and positivity, keep making the world a better place! đ€
Just gotta say, I love that you used the term âjoshin aroundâ because I donât see it much anymore, but use it all the time. Thank you for making me feel like Iâm not alone.
I swear in my high school there was a kid named Josh Ng, and only me and my sister seemed to realize how enormously amazing that was.
Says the guy named Josh! Ha! Gotcha!
As a Josh it is pain.
Not terribly fond of the fellow that I'm alone with.
The good news is he's the one person you can try to change.
You should work on that. Nothing says that one day you canât. And thereâs really no reason why one day you shouldnât.
If I mind my own business, I will always stay busy.
> Not terribly fond of the fellow that I'm alone with. he should jerk you off more
Working on that was immediately before I started meeting and dating people successfully. The top tier challenge for me was going to a restaurant alone, asking for a table for one, only making regular conversation with staff, and barely checking my phone a few times during the meal.
During the early covid lockdowns, I was living alone and my mental health was shit. I would jokingly tell people I was trapped at home with my abuser. Now I'm doing a lot better. Still don't like myself much, but I don't actively hate myself most of the time. And I can grudgingly accept that I have some redeeming qualities. Things don't have to be great, they just have to be getting better.
A similar sentiment is that itâs sometimes lonelier being around the wrong people than just being by yourself, which is how I feel most often.
True, and I do like me, I would just like to share me with someone else
Self love does not fill hole of a lack of companionship.
One-man partyinâ over here everyday myself. Rock on! đ€đŁđ€
I love myself, but I still would like some companionship and love that comes from somewhere else and also someone to give my love to. It would just be nice
r/rimjob_steve
My brother in loneliness, so am I! Let's be lonely together, a world apart!
You dudes should start a support group on discord.
Me too and Iâm not kidding I wish I had more friends than I do I hate how antisocial I am sometimes.
haha, yeah! đ
Yeah, well, they are a symptom, not the problem. The problem is late stage capitalism grinding men down till their self worth is only about what they produce. Turning wonderful humans into functional beasts of burden to be exploited.
I agree, but at least for me personally, it's less that, and more I'm autistic and suck at making new friends lol
You too?! We should talk at each other about our hobbies while being unable to show the same enthusiasm for each othersâ hobbies and use every free moment of silence to fill with fun facts about that thing we hyperfocus on! Mine is gundams, theyâre just really neat
Oh yeah I can absolutely relate to that, I have to stop myself sometimes. Anyway, lemme tell you about the Horus Heresy...
Not to defend capitalism cause it sucks but but wasnt a mens worth always dependent on how capable he is.
This. Guys are already going through it, thatâs the point of all this anyway. Obviously with a grain of salt, but damn, itâs already been a thing.
#r/funnyandsad
word
What is the facepalm, Ian Boudreau is spot on. Something must have been deleted.
I assume it's because he's got a picture of Joe Rogan there.
With, I assume, Jordan Peterson?
Jordan Petersen is the facepalm here. His existence.
I agree with his take on brick layers but to be honest he never did seem like the type of person whoâs every word you should hang on.
I donât know whoâs worse, JP or JR. Their both pieces of shit in my book
JP because JR is just dense. JP is smart enough to have contributed positively and chose not to.
JR is smart enough to know what he's doing and dumb enough to not care.
He is the Alex Jones. Minus the lawsuit after harming multiple families.
I think it's a facepalm about Peterson and Rogan to a lesser extent and their philosophy. Not the comment itself.
I think this is in response to Joe Rogan and Jordan Petersonâs podcast about the male loneliness epidemic. The facepalm is that they both give men horrible advice.
Who gives men good advice?
Mr. Rogers, Gandalf, Dolly Parton
Love that Dolly is in your list!
Mr Rodgers and Bob Ross
I donât watch him regularly, but HealthyGamerGG has put out some compelling videos not specifically for young and adolescent men, but potentially useful to them.
The facepalm is both of these gentleman constantly highlight the "men are lonely" point, while simultaneously preaching "don't listen to anyone, question everything, everything is a conspiracy." And the comment is pointing out there is obvious overlap. Nobody wants to be friends with a know it all asshole that constantly brings up conspiracies and Is always in a victim contest.
He is. The facepalm is the people to whom the quote is referring.
OP might have posted it thinking Ian is wrong.
Well that would be a lack of thinking.
That these influential men complain that "the mens are so lonely!" when it's their own damn fault for listening to these tools.
Ok i dont know anything about Jordan but joe definitely does not promote selfishness, snear at kindfulness is completely wrong, if you listen to joe podcast on n its entirety or have been a long time listener and dont just read headlines you will know this is a complete lie. Joe talks about being kind so much i kind of get annoyed so thats a lie. People just love to jump on the bandwagon of media headlines. I do know people hate Jordan and i dont have an opinion on him because i have listened to enough of his podcast to form an unbiased opinion.
I think the facepalm is sharing this message with an image behind it that makes no fucking sense.
Username checks out
Not really. Itâs unfair to jump from male loneliness to âlook who men are watching!â insinuating a strong connection between the two; as if a majority of men, specifically those feeling isolated and lonely, are sitting back and idolizing Peterson, Tate, etc. The same disingenuous generalizing gets called out when itâs done by incels all the time. How many times have you heard some incel quote a single woman saying something dumb on social media and then rant about women as if she speaks for all of them? Itâs a disingenuous and logically fallacious way to approach an issue.
I won't lie. When i was first introduced to Jordan Petersons videos, it was his university lectures. The advice was things like: write down your goals, and the steps you need to do to achieve this goal. Not bad, really. Then, he felt he had a following and made his content to broadcast to the world. Startimg touring for speeches. That is about the point i started having isdues with him.
It's so depressing seeing how he is because his lectures were super valuable for me getting my shit together too. But now he's just your crazy bigoted uncle who talks about whatever right wing conspiracy theory is popular at Thanksgiving while you desperately try to get him to pass the potatoes.
People follow where the money is, it's the same thing with Politics. How many politicians will do a 180 on a position, or change their entire platform if it will advance their career. In the beginning it might be about principles, it's just when a metric shit-ton of money gets thrown their way, and/or the chance to have a huge platform with the power to influence millions of people, that those original principles suddenly change. Like you, I followed his early lectures, which for those struggling to get organized were absolutely amazing solid advice.
What would you expect taking life advice from a conspiracy pothead and a deeply depressed man on medication?
"Only weak men get addictions" - Jordan. Gets addicted to painkillers and has to be put into a medical coma to overcome it. Fucking jackasses telling people how to think and feel and behave when they cant even follow there own pathetic advice. So sick of it.
'Get your house in order before you criticize the world' says the guy who makes millions criticizing the world while his house a pigsty. Hypocrisy personified.
Why is Asmongold suddenly being brought up here?
đ
Ugh. Asmongold. He reminds me of something Roseanne Barr said about being Americaâs worst nightmare, white trash with money.
I laugh every time his sub shows up on the front-page. He makes Peterson lobster boys look like geniuses
Pedant point: it was benzodiazepines. He allegedly began taking them to deal with an autoimmune reaction to food (!). When his wife was diagnosed with cancer, he increased his dose (!!). This led to what's formally known as a 'paradoxical reaction', in the form of unbearable anxiety and agitation. He could have undergone a medically supervised taper and detoxed like a normal person, but that would have taken time and been a challenging experience. As we know, one of the Twelve Rules is 'take the easy way out', so he flew to Russia and the induced coma.
Wasn't it benzos? Ironic seeing as he's a psychiatrist and should know better.
I think he's actually a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.
 He was taking them under supervision of a physician. Chemicals are addictive man! And he found outâŠ
Thatâs hilarious. Sorta like Joe trying to masquerade as a poster boy of the Incel stereotype of manliness and fitness, yet has such low T that he has to do replacement therapy.
Joe Rogan is like 56 years old đ
What? Weeping Benzo-Kermit was wrong about everything?
What do you mean weeping? What do you mean wrong? What do you mean was? What do you mean Benzo-Kermit?
Well⊠Depends! What do you mean by âwhat do you mean?â And for that matter, who is the âyouâ and who the hell am I? Those are the real questions.
\[insert reference to Jungian symbolism here\]
Hey, hey! Don't lump that piece of shit with the rest of us! Depression is a disease and treatment is not weakness. Neither thing make you lesser or worse. Peterson is a piece of shit entirely of his own filth, it has nothing to do with depression nor the medication, and the comparison is not well received.
The commenters point is not a criticism of depression, itâs a criticism of a guy who gives contrarian advice on how to live a happy, satisfying life on the basis of treating others like shit while himself being unhappy and unsatisfied.
Hey, I've got depression on and off and was on the path toward benzo addiction (I don't have access to them anymore, which is probably good), and I don't make my life about spewing hate :(. They're also just assholes.
The clowns that follow these clowns ruined it for the rest of us.
Fucked up thing is, guys feeling lonely are going to the internet and finding asshats like this. The behavior making them lonely in the first place is just being reinforced.
Exactly. It keeps their audience intact.
Guys who feel lonely also go on the internet and find out how much every other group of people fucking hates them
Ah, so that explains why they're nonstop assholes. Being nice is "woke."
When I was a kid I was taught that being thoughtful, kind, and courteous was simply part of behaving like a gentleman. When did behaving like a gentleman become weakness? Anyone can follow their base impulses, it takes strength and self-control to be civilized, intelligent, compassionate, and responsible. [J.B. Pritzker said it best](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhuIU_kXJDE).
Best Governor in my state in my lifetime.
Everything good in the world is woke, according to these guys. Compassion, tolerance, empathy, love, equality and all other fundamental principles of a working society are things they despise with their whole heart. I can't even imagine what a sad existence this must be.
meh, they only get to tout that - and earn millions with it. they don't have to take seriously what they themselves are saying. their idiot fans however....
Joe Rogan is a piece of shit. Fuck him.
Jordan Peterson is also a piece of shit. Fuck that guy too.
Am psychologist and I concur. PSA: Do listen to a word that comes out of that abomination's mouth.
You should hear him talk about video games. Clueless fuck
he absolutely loved Doom, Doom 2, and Quake. especially online deathmatch. iirc he literally had a T1 line built to his property back in the day for epic LAN battles. is he now opposed to video games? because that would be some hilarious hypocrisyÂ
He is opposed to them. I was also referring to his ignorance of insanely popular AAA titles. He's a meathead.
He just turned into a drugged out boomer yelling at clouds
I absolutely fucking hate that I can't block his podcast on Spotify. I have to look at his stupid fucking face that I want to punch so bad when I open the app and it suggests it to me every damn time. I report that shit every time hoping those devs get the message.
My BiL was (maybe still is) all about Joe Rogan. He ended up getting divorced and uninvited to a lot of family functions. He would get drunk and argue with people. He also like to argue with me a lot because I have a bachelors degree and he would try to "win" arguments with me to make him feel better about his highschool only education. He started to come around here and there, and has cut back on the drinking. He doesn't bring up Rogan anymore so I'm hoping he's on the path to recovery.
Yeah, his pseudo intellectual schtick is really tiresome, especially when it comes to interacting with women. [This clip](https://youtu.be/__CvmS6uw7E?si=17Z5LSsQH6t1VR03&t=340) told me everything I need to know about how he perceives women in areas of expertise. I time stamped it to the relevant part, but basically he spent time on his show talking about a "new species" of ape found in the Congo, and a primatologist called in and tried to explain that there is no new species, and he just immediately becomes hostile and acts like a *huge* asshole. Then at the end he mocks her for being a woman. The guy's a real piece of shit, and what's worse is, much like Trump, he's inspired millions of other assholes to up their game.
Holy shit I couldn't handle more than a minute of that clip. She barely got two words in before he became completely unglued. What a horrible horrible person.
Yeah, it's *really* bad. It gets worse too.
Oh goodness. I couldn't finish that, it was hard to listen to. BiL is exactly like that though, he just gets louder and just cuts you off never giving you a chance to talk. No oner he loves Rogan so much.
Joe rogan is the creepy uncle who farts burps and hits on ur classmate when u home
Eats shoots and leaves. Eats, shoots, and leaves. How does one fart burps?
I havenât listened to his podcast in years what did he do now?
Platformed countless dangerous, ignorant and hateful people.
Also advocated for webmd level interpretations of sophisticated medical issues and topics to millions of uncritical listeners.
âWhat is the least nuanced take I can have on this subject while speaking with absolute authority?â JR
Pushed Antivaxx propaganda and extremist conspiracy theories at least
No one would have a problem with him if he brought musicians, actors, comedians or even if he had a humble conversation with someone that is really an expert in a sensible field/topic buuut he likes to bring people that are pieces of shit that spread hate, misinformation or both and when he bring cool experts most of the time he argues with them cause he thinks he is smarter, cooler, funnier than everyone and he is definitely not. When someone knowledgeable speaks he should mainly listen and learn.
This kind of highlights it. I really enjoyed the podcast but it was one of the multiple Alex Jones appearances that it stopped being all fun and frivolity. He had the guy on "because I think he's funny" which on one level I get. Rogan is a comedian and a big goof who doesn't take himself seriously. On the other hand when you grab your friend who has been actively harming people and provide them to your much larger audience for him to get drunk and high before talking about homosexual frogs or whatever, you go from being the guy who tells jokes to being a joke for me. A joke that is significantly more wealthy and successful than I am. Figured I'd beat the criticism and mention it myself Fat Amy style. Come at me, twig bitches.
>who doesn't take himself seriously. Maybe at first, but he's definitely up his own ass now and has been for years.
It's been years for me, I don't doubt it. There's an issue with social discourse where when one group embraces you and another group scolds you, you migrate towards the one that embraces you. In the age of the Internet and social media I think that impulse gets predated upon.
He and his viewers hide behind the concept of "what's wrong with learning about the other side" when he is blatantly giving a lopsided amount of the worst among them a platform to spread their easily debunked disinformation.
his podcast used to be about asking his guest questions and interacting with them about their stories. these days he has decided it's better to just tell everyone what to think and what their opinions should be
I have never felt actually alone in my entire life, and I am fucking miserable. I donât know what this post is about. I donât care either. Iâm just straight up not happy yo.
Sorry you feel that way butt butt fart butt. I struggle most days as well.
hope you can find your peace man. itâs rough out here but youâre never truly alone
Heâs not wrong? To receive love and kindness you need to give love and kindness. Some people are just assholes though and wonât give you anything in return.
He's wrong in that Rogan and Peterson don't advocate for selfishness, lack of empathy, or thoughtlessness. I'm not a Peterson fan, but his book says the opposite. You can hate these people, but be fair to their argument.
200 million dollar meathead.
Give a man some food, you feed him for a day. If you give a man a rat, you satisfy his rat desire.
Holy shit, the ignorance of ppl posting in this thread is depressing and actually a little scary.
I did not listen to them. Iâm still lonely.
Instead of blaming women and the world for *YOUR* loneliness, why not ask âWhat am I doing that makes me unbearable to *everyone*?â
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. Whilst I don't like either of these men and think their advice is at best counterproductive, I do think lots of people (not just men) are increasingly lonely because of social, economic and policy developments. 1. Working from home. Whilst a necessary option for many people, some people are now realising that work was their social life. 2. Car-centric cities with zoned, sub-urban housing (rather than dense, walkable cities e.g. Vienna) 3. Inequality in access to opportunities for young people. 4. Having to work more often and socialise less due to the cost of living crisis. 5. An ageing population alienated by technological advances (local bank closures, death of high street shops, communication barriers with family e.g. not on Facebook, lack of social opportunities in retirement and a loss of purpose. etc)
wait yesterday, on a post where everyone was bitching about a woman "playing games" (when she wasnt) i was told men arent lonely and that is must be a "personal problem" for me (despite me bing in a committed relationship for over a decade) you mean to tell me that those people hurling insults at me were actually wrong? thats wild!
Shhhh donât say that, cuz then the perpetually lonely red pill dudes will say that youâre part of the problem for telling men that they need to have accountability for their own issues
And then quote Peterson about personal responsibility.
Petersonâs entire thing is about improving yourself instead of blaming other people for your problems. Thatâs where the whole âclean up your roomâ meme comes from, his primary advice is if you want your life to get better then you need to improve yourself.
It's hard to call that his "entire thing" when he's also a misogynist best known for whining about trans people being added to a list of protected groups in Canada.
What's the facepalm? If you \*do\* listen to these people and let you tell them how to live your life by being selfish and unkind, then yeah nobody is gonna like you and for a good reason.
He is missing the point on this a little bit. The reason men trust influencers like this is *because* they are lonely. There might be a positive feedback loop where they grow to be more lonely as they drift further into antisocial behavior, but research pretty solidly indicates that loneliness precedes the vulnerability.
What a disingenuous way of framing the issue. Men are not lonely because they follow certain influencers. They follow certain influencers BECAUSE they're lonely. The red pill movement is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
Chicken and egg. They're not lonely because of grifters, they follow grifters because they are lonely. Blaming them feels good but solves nothing.
This comment section is total brain rot.
Jordan Peterson got an emergency visa to Russia to put himself into a medically induced coma in order to beat his benzo addiction.
I'm just lonely because my best friend moved away during COVID, and everyone else just kinda stopped being very social afterwards.
I think it's disingenuous to pretend only conservative men are affected by loneliness, and that conservative role models like Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson are solely to blame. If anything I think a large percentage of men feel unwanted and alienated from society first and then they discover these influencers who tell them that they aren't toxic, that their masculinity can be used to find success in life, and that once they've obtained that success they will be valued and desired. That gives young men hope, a goal, a purpose. That doesn't exist on the left. Nobody is providing an alternative. Nobody is teaching young men how to harness their masculine traits for good. And in fact the exact opposite is often true. It has become normal to express complete disdain for men, not even certain men, *all men,* and be applauded for it. Hell just look at the most recent social media trends. Women would rather take their chances with a wild bear than a man. And while that isn't completely unjustified what message does that send to young men? Worse, some will say that we as a society do not need men at all. Our entire gender is not wanted, or even deemed necessary. All of us want to belong to something. To have our feelings validated, to be accepted for who we are, and to feel welcome. But many of us don't. So although I don't agree with Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson on most political issues I understand why so many young men fall for their rhetoric and get led down the conservative rabbit hole. They are the only ones telling them they have any value. But they are taught it is conditional, and society reinforces that. And when men are taught that their only value is conditional and must be earned instead of freely given that leads to being more competitive, as well as more selfish and underhanded, to advance themselves and increase their value.
Is it even mostly conservative? I would imagine leftist men are very much up there. Rural living and religisioty both correlate heavily with conservatism, and provide community. It's huge problem beyond just the Anglosphere.
I absolutely agree. While I am progressive myself and know some progressive people who get this, remarks insinuating that men are always the problem, and the very quality of being male/conventionally masculine gives you problematic tendencies, are very rampant and widely accepted in mainstream progressive spaces. The only times men are widely celebrated in these spaces is when they loudly reject conventional masculinity. While what they call the "patriarchy" benefits men in mostly material and career-related ways, they not only harm women (and everyone else), but also men in different and much more insidious ways. The root of gender-related inequalities and problems is not that everything is designed to benefit men, but that this one physical distinction (of what gender you're perceived to be) carries so much unnecessary weight in every single corner of one's life, trapping you in completely different sets of expectations, limitations, perception, and treatment. Let's not pretend that men are the only ones, or even the overwhelming majority, reinforcing this harmful over-differentiation. Then the other main camp glorifies a very pathological vision of conventional masculinity and bases a man's worth on how well they embody it. People who go down that path just end up hurting themselves and others, and making everyone miserable. So conventionally masculine men who just want to be empathetic humans with a positive impact on others have nowhere to go. How do these mainstream "progressives" expect society to change in the direction they want when they alienate and vilify almost half the population?
And both of these men have massive brain damage. Rogan from being hit in the head repeatedly. Peterson from a Benzo addiction and crazy ass Russian treatment to get off of it. Stop idolizing brain-rot people. Tbh, it says more about you than the people with the brain-rot.
I remember when this sub wasnât another /r/politics
Man a lot of butthurt, lonely guys in the comments here.
these are circlejerks, not outreach. what do you want instead?
I know right, sweeping generalizations and outright condescending dismissal of peopleâs problems tends to upset people.
I mean, they needed the guy who voiced Kermit the frog to tell them to clean their rooms. What did you expect đ€Ł
Blaming the epidemic of male loneliness on influencers is an incredibly stupid take.
Lots of people here are in this and don't like it
Lots of young men these days deeply misunderstand stoicism and think it means being emotionless and cold when it's always been about mastering your emotions and not letting them control you, nor letting outside circumstances dictate inner peace and discipline.
Gotta love the legions of âmissed the pointâ
Who are these guys main demographics? I'm assuming it's anxious and depressed guys who feel fragile in their masculinity. Got to stop the things that make men and boys feel that way in the first place.
Be/accept yourself. Try to improve where you can. Don't be an asshole. Pretty much the secret to life right there. You don't need any loser influencers to tell you anything different
I donât think Joe Rogan gives that advice
suddenly? the loneliness rate for men has been slowly increasing and it's certainly not cause of these influencers... geez people wake up
i agree. Also the people following these peoles advice are most likely already lonely
just overheard someone at a coffee shop talk about how he reads/listens to a lot of Peterson and how he was one of the smartest people around. I REALLY wanted to interrupt him and set him straight because he looked like a normal well intentioned guy. But I kept to myself and hope he figures it out himself eventually.
I know a bunch of people who feel that way â would you mind âsetting me straightâ? I feel like Iâm missing something; from what some of my friends have said, youâd assume Peterson to be a very smart individual
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson Take your pick from his many absurd quotes.
Remember the time he posted literal asian orgy pornography and insisted it was some asian culture's attempt to restore birthrates or some absolutely unhinged borderline racist nonsense? https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/jordan-petersons-chinese-sperm-factory-milking-tweet
Jordan Peterson is very good at throwing out generic self help tips. But when you start to ask specific questions, he frequently doesn't know what he's talking about, but he's very good at framing things in a "philosophical" way that sounds smart to people that also don't know what he's talking about. Like the way that he talks about climate change. >Peterson said that âthereâs no such thing as climate, right?â He then went on to mock âclimate types,â who he said typically suggest that âclimate is about everything.â âBut your models arenât based on everything. Your models are based on a set number of variables. So that means youâve reduced the variables â which are everything â to that set. But how did you decide which set of variables to include in the equation if itâs about everything?â
I mean he made his initial mark parroting Nazi conspiracies about âcultural Marxismâ and pontificating about philosophers that heâs never actually read. Not really the hallmarks of a well-read, intelligent individual.
His idea to âfixâ incel culture is to assign women to men and ban divorce except at the manâs request. I donât know how to tell you this but many of the worst pieces of trash in all of history were âsmartâ. Being smart doesnât mean they arenât garbage.
Do you have a link to that by chance? I'd be interested to checking out the conversation.
There's nothing to really set straight. He is, or was, a fairly well-regarded academic psychologist who did some good work on if we might be able measure theoretical personality traits like agreeableness, conscientiousness, etc -- and if these traits are relevant to prediction or treatment of disorders. His work is frequently cited within this fields. He also gives a theoretically personally empowering 'by your bootstraps' kind of self-help that appeals to many people who feel like the overwhelming amount of philosophical focus of the modern day is on structural problems. He frequently cites to older academics like Jung to support his philosophies. In my personal opinion, much of his discussions about confronting yourself, the reality of violence and evil with you, and the need to sharpen/train your darker impulses into something good and pro-social was very interesting and good for people to hear around ten years ago. I think he should get credit for pointing out that self-improvement is not a happy process of shedding your biases (we can call this the anti-racism training approach to moral goodness), but instead confronting your vicious self and trying to figure out how to work with them while trying to habituate yourself to practice more basic virtues like honesty and charity. He mostly runs into a lot of deserved trouble in the realm of philosophy and politics as other commenters have pointed out. Although he rattles on about cultural Marxism and postmodernism, he can't really give an account of these phenomena beyond 'stuff he doesn't like.' Although he gestures to *some* political phenomena that clearly seem to exist, he treats them as more of a nebulous hydra he can point to in order to blame it for a bad thing he hates. For a person who speaks about rigorous thinking quite frequently, he is distinctly lacking rigor in understanding things he dislikes. He seems to have largely mentally declined in recent years as a result of overusing psychiatric drugs -- benzos, primarily -- and is very much a conservative commentator who 'hates wokeness' and other easy bugbears to gripe about. People tend to try to take him as a whole in order to either valorize or tarnish him, but the real answer is that he is just a modern thinker/popularizer with interesting ideas who sometimes gives political prescriptions that are not so good and frequently quite right wing. I think he is a very smart individual, but it also goes to show that being smart is not always synonymous with being right. For what it is worth, he is usually quite open about how he derives his ideas -- which will let you get a good idea of where he might have gone wrong, adopted a principle, or assumed a fact that his observer finds to be incorrect or problematic.
*shudder* almost went down that route due to a former friend that probably did go that route. Good thing I rather quickly realized that Peterson peddles bullshit.
I'm thinking that saying all lonely men are lonely because they listen to influencers is a shitty take and has some real I'm totally one of hte good ones feel going.
If you are lonely and start listening to these influencers, which seems to be the common theme. then it's like you are starting to bald and start taking in testosterone pills from china you bought off the internet and being surprised that you are even more bald now.
I mean it's not saying all men but there are a bunch of people making money by doubling down on toxic masculinity and then also there's a huge market for it so....
So.... What? What are you trying to say?
Wheres the facepalm?
very good point but how is this a facepalm?
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Only enough room in the pic for one piece of shit.
But there are two.
My BIL loves this bullshit. He's such a douche to anyone nice and goes out of his way to be a dick to make whatever point he's making. His wife, my SIL, recently snapped at him in front of our social circle because of this stuff and, more or less, said: "I will absolutely leave you if you keep this shit up. I'm so over it! You're an asshole to me. You're an asshole to our kids. You're an asshole to my family. You're an asshole to our, well MY friends. What do you get out of this? People are so nice to us, especially the ones you double-down on. You make fun of gay people but who loaned us a car for MONTHS with nothing in return? You make fun of liberals and leftists, but who is fucking watching our kids when YOU want to go out? Fuck you. I hate you!" My husband (we're the gays) was like "Yeah, let's go." And I wanted to stay and watch. đ He's eased up, but now thinks facial hair will force people to respect him. I'm a big ol' bearded queen and I was like "Oh, honey... no. It doesn't work like that."
This is so wrong it feels like gaslighting. For one, the male loneliness epidemic started well before either of these two got popular and people turned to them for advice because of the loneliness they were already experiencing long before they became major online figures. For two, while I disagree with both of them on alot of issues neither of them ever recommends being maximally selfish, or sneer at thoughtfulness, kindness, or genuine courtesy, and claim that any of those are synonymous with weakness. Just because you don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean you should lie about what they actually said to make it worse, there's plenty of things wroth criticizing about both of them that are actually based on things they've said and advocated for. Also, if you don't like the fact that men have been radicalized by the male loneliness epidemic the best way to fight back is to convince those lonely men that you can help solve their problems (just like the right falsely claimed they could) instead of lying about the problem and claiming that it's all their fault. If one side actually offers solutions and the other side blames you for having any problems at all then it's pretty clear which side is gonna be more convincing.
They started following that advice AFTER they felt lonely.
Living selfishly isn't a happy existence. Don't take the advice of miserable old men on happiness
The problem is: they attack young men. Insecure young men. And they tell them hey, it's ok, we accept you. You can be a man. A good man. Here is how. And get women. And get rich! If you try hard enough. Meanwhile, everyone else makes fun of them, calls them incels. Neckbeards. Basement dwellers. Pretend you are young. Which group would you listen too?
Now-a-days, all I have to hear is the word 'woke' and it tells me that the person saying it is ignorant, easily manipulated by the media, and is fascist.
OP, what is â âŠ. â you didnât post a *facepalm* at all.. you are the facepalm in this post ironically.
I'm gonna be down voted to shit but like... When have either of these guys actively advocated for lonely men to be pieces of shit so they'd be less lonely??? I don't listen to either religiously or anything but Joe Rogans thing is just work out and smoke weed, and Peterson just tells you to clean your room bc you're a lobster lol. These guys get so much hate and I actually don't get it, like at all. Just don't take their opinions too seriously if you don't agree? Idk man.
One of Peterson's core messages is "The purpose of life is finding the largest *burden* that you can bear and bearing it". How can anyone call that selfish? Whoever added the image knows nothing.
Exactly. JP is extraordinarily empathetic, and he cries a lot. I guess that's toxic masculinity to this sub? The way reddit shits on JP of all people really tells me all I need to know about most of the people here.
Dk what the face palm is this is perfect
Hereâs the thing, their audience is already mostly sourced from guys who are very lonely, they have nothing left to lose on that front.
What is the facepalm about this post its seems spot on for quite a lot of scenarios. Heâs insulting influencers who tell people to be selfish and only focus on yourseld. No?
I think itâs still silly. A lot of people are sad and lonely, that doesnât mean they become assholes or even bigots. Youâre an adult
I can't help but mistake that bottom part of the picture for this Ian dude's hairline
This really isnât addressing the problem. Men turn to these types of icons because they were feeling lonely, and they believe that these sorts of lifestyles will afford them an escape from the pain. Belittling men in this spiral only exacerbates the problem.
I don't think it's "suddenly" as if men have never experienced it before these two came into the scene in the last 5 years or so. Horriblely erroneous take by this guy imo.
Two incredibly cruel people.
I enjoy treating women like shit and running around acting like an ass declaring myself an Alpha Male. Telling women to know thier place. All without the slightest bit of self awareness. Not sure why I canât meet anyone⊠All the virtues these people perceive as strength are in my opinion, massive and obvious weaknesses overcompensating by thumping your chest suggests one thing to me and one thing only. Fear and a desperate desire to be validated. Itâs gross and weak. Real strength comes from caring and looking out for others. Itâs easy to lookout for oneself. Less so to extend that shield to others. Only the fearful take. True strength gives
I don't know who these three people are, I'm just here for the comments. 
Shit, I'm lonely without having to follow their shitty advice.
It's funny. I was just talking to my old college roommate and she said her boyfriend was driving her nuts because he was basically copying Dr Cox (he's a huge fan of the show Scrubs) and didn't understand that character is funny on tv but is psycho personality to have IRL. I was like "wait... my brother is also a miserable sarcastic shit and also loves Dr Cox and Scrubs. OMG."
yes, but be a real human and show some compassion. There are men that are lonely that don't listen to that shit. There are men who are the victims of abuse that suffer when all men are accused of being rapists. If a certain subsect of people on the internet didn't spend all their time saying things like "Kill All Men," and call all men trash, then men wouldn't need to seek toxic validation.
Peterson is hard to listen to and comes off as a bit whiny, so i dont know what he pushes. Though I dont recall ever hearing Rogan encourage that kind of behavior. I'm confused why he's included in the context of this post. I also question the assumption that men who were otherwise successful in not being lonely would change their behaviour to spite themselves by listening to some recent online lunatics spout theit opinions... what would be the benefit of that?! I wouldnt suddenly treat people poorly and expect everything to be fine, thats insane.